Political/News/Debate Thread

[David]

^
If confirmed as the next director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Petraeus would effectively take command of a third -- in Pakistan.'

okay so its finally getting out that the US is effectively at war in Pakistan. to be completely honest it seemed like thats where we were headed since 9/11. its a powder keg with Osama supposedly hiding out in the highlands coupled with the fact that Pakistan has the Muslim bomb (nuclear), then you have nuclear armed India next door. lets hope it doesent escalate beyond drone attacks.

heres another quote, "It's rare for American media outlets to list all of our "wars" this way."

this backs up my view that most American news does not consistently report on what should be worth noticing. especially when it comes to how the US is affecting the rest of the world. ? you want the whole story in reporting? then you might want to stay away from most major american news outlets. (to be fair http://www.mcclatchydc.com does seem to get the job done.) ? Great article.

"American institutions in the National Security State are all devoted to the same overarching cause: Endless War."

[daniel]

you think if this were some masterful fucking forgery by the whitehouse they would make such chump ass mistakes like putting 'African' as a race when it apparently didn't count as one??? The whitehouse no doubt has the best photoshoppers in the world and you wouldn't even believe the dicks they can digitally insert into pictures of slap posters, they ain't gonna fuck up something like this.

you ARE that guy. nickdagger was posting that shit to show how fucking ludicrous it all is. TAKE BACK YOUR CENTS!!!!!!!

so you honestly believe this is the legit certificate?

The indonesian aspect is what I find interesting.

"Obama arrived in Indonesia at about the age of five according to most accounts, although it was possible he arrived at the age of six, according to a few sources. If Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama at age five or younger, then Obama would automatically have become an Indonesian citizen according to the country's laws in the 1960's, which stipulated any child aged five or younger adopted by an Indonesian father is immediately granted Indonesian citizenship upon completion of the adoption process".

Where was Jesus from age 12-30?

Was he really born in a manger?

Was God really his father?

[matt.]

^
If confirmed as the next director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Petraeus would effectively take command of a third -- in Pakistan.'

okay so its finally getting out that the US is effectively at war in Pakistan. to be completely honest it seemed like thats where we were headed since 9/11. its a powder keg with Osama supposedly hiding out in the highlands coupled with the fact that Pakistan has the Muslim bomb (nuclear), then you have nuclear armed India next door. lets hope it doesent escalate beyond drone attacks.

heres another quote, "It's rare for American media outlets to list all of our "wars" this way."

this backs up my view that most American news does not consistently report on what should be worth noticing. especially when it comes to how the US is affecting the rest of the world. ? you want the whole story in reporting? then you might want to stay away from most major american news outlets. (to be fair http://www.mcclatchydc.com does seem to get the job done.) ? Great article.

"American institutions in the National Security State are all devoted to the same overarching cause: Endless War."

Pakistan is hardly new, hasn't the us been in there since like '04?

[NickDagger]

Vermont closing in on a single-payer system:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/vermont_closing_in_on_single_payer/2011/05/09/AFvtBmZG_blog.html?wprss=ezra-klein

[NickDagger]

America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, ?It ain?t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.? It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: ?if you?re so smart, why ain?t you rich?? There will also be an American flag no larger than a child?s hand ? glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register?

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

you think if this were some masterful fucking forgery by the whitehouse they would make such chump ass mistakes like putting 'African' as a race when it apparently didn't count as one??? The whitehouse no doubt has the best photoshoppers in the world and you wouldn't even believe the dicks they can digitally insert into pictures of slap posters, they ain't gonna fuck up something like this.

you ARE that guy. nickdagger was posting that shit to show how fucking ludicrous it all is. TAKE BACK YOUR CENTS!!!!!!!

so you honestly believe this is the legit certificate?

The indonesian aspect is what I find interesting.

"Obama arrived in Indonesia at about the age of five according to most accounts, although it was possible he arrived at the age of six, according to a few sources. If Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama at age five or younger, then Obama would automatically have become an Indonesian citizen according to the country's laws in the 1960's, which stipulated any child aged five or younger adopted by an Indonesian father is immediately granted Indonesian citizenship upon completion of the adoption process".

I believe the state of Hawaii when they say that according to their records he was born there to an American mother. Even if your story is accurate, that is allowed, all you need to be is naturally born as a citizen and living in the country 14 years previous to running for office. He's completely legitimate, and you are retarded. You seriously won't take any evidence that he was born in the U.S. huh? What else could he possibly provide to prove his birth in the U.S.?

[NickDagger]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-people-vs-goldman-sachs-20110511?page=1

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/skimpy_coverage_of_levin-cobur.php

[Hexagon]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-people-vs-goldman-sachs-20110511?page=1

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/skimpy_coverage_of_levin-cobur.php

Good. Just hope this doesn't get whitewashed and lost in the mix... these cats are the greediest of greedy and need suffer the consequences. tanking companies, their own people, their customers, partial blame on tanking the economy by being a self involved cock sucker is something that shouldn't be taken lightly. In way its blood on their hands in terms of royally screwing people's well being by their insatiable thirst for power and money. Pretty ballsy to be a rich dick and spit in the faces of those who can easily condemn them for said acts. in short fuck these guys, hang 'em high.

[Hexagon]

America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, ?It ain?t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.? It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: ?if you?re so smart, why ain?t you rich?? There will also be an American flag no larger than a child?s hand ? glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register?

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.

and this is nothing short of the actual truth into how quite a few are mislead and think.

[Hexagon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNHly5IAlf8&feature=player_embedded
	Small | Large

[NickDagger]

+1

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

*Gasp* Robert Reich summed it up pretty well. *Gasp* The republican approach is fucking insane right now. *Gasp* They are devouring themselves over an issue that is so unpopular it will get them all kicked out of office.

Another thing. On the education issue, which is raging right now, some food for thought:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-schools/2011/05/09/AFunW27G_story.html

[The Poster Formerly Known As Crass]

*Gasp* Robert Reich summed it up pretty well. *Gasp* The republican approach is fucking insane right now. *Gasp* They are devouring themselves over an issue that is so unpopular it will get them all kicked out of office.

Another thing. On the education issue, which is raging right now, some food for thought:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-schools/2011/05/09/AFunW27G_story.html

If you haven't seen this documentary, I recommend it:

Waiting for Superman Official Trailer

[steve]

*Gasp* Robert Reich summed it up pretty well. *Gasp* The republican approach is fucking insane right now. *Gasp* They are devouring themselves over an issue that is so unpopular it will get them all kicked out of office.

Another thing. On the education issue, which is raging right now, some food for thought:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-schools/2011/05/09/AFunW27G_story.html

Gip, i'm sure you see this on the regular scenario on the regular- A buddy of mine is a high school teacher in SE Massachusetts. He's been at the gig for about 4 years. He teaches at a school that has charter school status but has become the "alternative school" for kids who are about to be kicked out of one of the cities other high schools.

Anyhow, he says that his students rarely show up to class, let alone complete their work, and that input from parents is nearly non existent. He would send letters home to parents, without a return address so that the students couldn't hide them, warning of low grades and the like. One parent has responded. The students continue to do as they choose.

During his first two years teaching he graded students according to what they learned, attendance, and how they performed on his exams- the majority of his students failed and were graded accordingly. He was called into a meeting with the principal/headmaster and was told that a positive supervisory review and job security were dependent upon bumping the grades higher. This happened twice.

He now says that the only purpose of each day is to go in and try to get students to do work but more importantly to get them to like him because they know that he's got no power to suspend them or to encourage them to learn.

How common is this experience in public schools?

[NickDagger]

How common is this experience in public schools?

It depends on the community the school is in. As that article gip accurately describes, if your community is made up of terrible households where the parents either don't care, are on drugs, or just work so much that they can't raise their kids effectively-there is only so much a teacher in that situation can do. Putting some dumbass free-market incentives for test scores won't do shit. What we need in this country is more, better paying jobs so that parents can actually raise their kids for the 2/3 of the day that they are not in school. But the free market decided it'd be better if those jobs were done for 10 cents a day by kids in Asia. Oops.

Edit-I should point out I work at a Middle School, and I can definitely see that for the small percentage of kids that come from troubled homes time and energy is wasted on them. Not to mention ESL students, which cripple communities in a lot of states, like California. Try teaching math to a class where half of the kids don't speak English sometime.

[jay]

How common is this experience in public schools?

It depends on the community the school is in. As that article gip accurately describes, if your community is made up of terrible households where the parents either don't care, are on drugs, or just work so much that they can't raise their kids effectively-there is only so much a teacher in that situation can do. Putting some dumbass free-market incentives for test scores won't do shit. What we need in this country is more, better paying jobs so that parents can actually raise their kids for the 2/3 of the day that they are not in school. But the free market decided it'd be better if those jobs were done for 10 cents a day by kids in Asia. Oops.

Edit-I should point out I work at a Middle School, and I can definitely see that for the small percentage of kids that come from troubled homes time and energy is wasted on them. Not to mention ESL students, which cripple communities in a lot of states, like California. Try teaching math to a class where half of the kids don't speak English sometime.

Protectionism FTW!

[sven thorkel]

How common is this experience in public schools?

It depends on the community the school is in. As that article gip accurately describes, if your community is made up of terrible households where the parents either don't care, are on drugs, or just work so much that they can't raise their kids effectively-there is only so much a teacher in that situation can do. Putting some dumbass free-market incentives for test scores won't do shit. What we need in this country is more, better paying jobs so that parents can actually raise their kids for the 2/3 of the day that they are not in school. But the free market decided it'd be better if those jobs were done for 10 cents a day by kids in Asia. Oops.

Edit-I should point out I work at a Middle School, and I can definitely see that for the small percentage of kids that come from troubled homes time and energy is wasted on them. Not to mention ESL students, which cripple communities in a lot of states, like California. Try teaching math to a class where half of the kids don't speak English sometime.

I think the situation is further exacerbated by how public schools in 'Merica are funded. Most states (excluding Minnesota) are mainly funded by property taxes in the region. If a community is a 'ghetto,' it's going to have a crummy public school because property values are low in the area, thus property taxes are low, thus school funding is low. Less funding means less teachers, facilities, programs etc. If the community is upscale, it's going to have a first class public school, but it won't even have a public school because those kids are going to go to private schools anyways.

I think the funding system needs major restructuring. Minnesota redistributes property tax money going towards education thorughout the state, and from what I could gather (http://www.psk12.com/rating/USthreeRsphp/STATE_US_level_Middle_CountyID_0.html), it's been somewhat of a success.  

[NickDagger]

A new Pentagon forecast showing the total cost of owning and operating a fleet of F-35 Joint Strike Fighters topping $1 trillion over more than 50 years has caused a case of sticker shock in Washington.

And that price tag doesn't even include the $385 billion the Defense Department will spend to purchase 2,500 of the stealthy planes through 2035.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303654804576345590857818106.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

[NickDagger]

I encourage people to watch the Republicans in this video:

"Who's Watching the Watchmen? Oversight of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau" Part 1

[L33Tg33k]

Sooo, the Patriot Act was extended.  Anybody notice?

[ice nine]

What's everyones take on 'democracy now!'? My friends swear by it, but I never hear it mentioned anywhere else.

[grimcity]

Protectionism FTW!

Good god I wish. At the rate we're going, the US is going to be full of degreed and skilled laborers making and serving hamburgers.

[Eschaton]

You can go to jail for life for making hash in OK now.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/13/oklahomas-new-hashish-law-unduly-harsh-critics-say/

[The Poster Formerly Known As Crass]

Did the patriot act get extended?

[grimcity]

Did the patriot act get extended?

Yeah, four year extension.

[NickDagger]

What's everyones take on 'democracy now!'? My friends swear by it, but I never hear it mentioned anywhere else.

It's good. Plus they consistently have on quality guests that most MSM shows don't.

[Hexagon]

*Gasp* Robert Reich summed it up pretty well. *Gasp* The republican approach is fucking insane right now. *Gasp* They are devouring themselves over an issue that is so unpopular it will get them all kicked out of office.

Another thing. On the education issue, which is raging right now, some food for thought:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-schools/2011/05/09/AFunW27G_story.html

If you haven't seen this documentary, I recommend it:
Waiting for Superman Official Trailer

Watched it... too much of a political angle involved... found it informative, but hoped for some objectivity to it. found it to be somewhat distorted, I guess. But worth a watch if you got an hour and fifty minutes to kill. Consistently shifting blame to teachers is not a solution (teaching children is still a parents fucking job to a degree in my opinion) granted there are some shitty ones out there, but I have the general belief that most have the best intentions and give a shit. The political blah blah is what pretty much fucks everything up for everyone, divided interests vested in self same business as usual in 'merica.

[NickDagger]

Is English your primary language?

[Hexagon]

Is English your main language?

You're reaching... want me to write a thesis on a skateboard forum? Pleassssseeee. I'm aware of my grammatical errors, but I'm not going to endlessly modify my posts so its reads better for your smug ass, gurrlll. Get the jest and lay off on being a douche please. I don't find it necessary to proofread your posts if I disagree with you or a portion of what you say.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

*Gasp* Robert Reich summed it up pretty well. *Gasp* The republican approach is fucking insane right now. *Gasp* They are devouring themselves over an issue that is so unpopular it will get them all kicked out of office.

Another thing. On the education issue, which is raging right now, some food for thought:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-schools/2011/05/09/AFunW27G_story.html

Gip, i'm sure you see this on the regular scenario on the regular- A buddy of mine is a high school teacher in SE Massachusetts. He's been at the gig for about 4 years. He teaches at a school that has charter school status but has become the "alternative school" for kids who are about to be kicked out of one of the cities other high schools.

Anyhow, he says that his students rarely show up to class, let alone complete their work, and that input from parents is nearly non existent. He would send letters home to parents, without a return address so that the students couldn't hide them, warning of low grades and the like. One parent has responded. The students continue to do as they choose.

During his first two years teaching he graded students according to what they learned, attendance, and how they performed on his exams- the majority of his students failed and were graded accordingly. He was called into a meeting with the principal/headmaster and was told that a positive supervisory review and job security were dependent upon bumping the grades higher. This happened twice.

He now says that the only purpose of each day is to go in and try to get students to do work but more importantly to get them to like him because they know that he's got no power to suspend them or to encourage them to learn.

How common is this experience in public schools?

I think your buddy got exactly what he should expect in a high poverty area. I don't know SE mass, but it sounds like he's working in a kinda ghetto (no judgment, just saying) situation. Pretty much, 90% of the job of urban educators is two fold:
1) Motivating students into believing they can and deserve to succeed through education.
2) Parental involvement- One thing you gotta remember is there are a lot of parents who would like to help out, but in these communities A LOT of parents work long hours, or have other issues with involvement. A big one a lot of people in my community have that gets in the way is the language and culture barrier. If the kids speak English as a second language, a lot of times the parents don't, and even if they understand the language, they may have no fucking clue what a "C" is.
Here's the thing, urban kids bring a lot of baggage  to the door, but that doesn't mean they can't learn. The problem I have with the article is that they act like because of these issues, innercity kids can't learn. While they may not have some of the assets other kids have, that doesn't mean they can't learn, it just means it takes a teacher with the skills and understanding, and a school with the resources necessary to compensate for what is missing, and who can also bring out the assets kids often do have, but are ignored by traditional and "one size fits all" education. If you don't get what I mean about that, let me put it this way- I had an AMAZING class discussion about Marxism a few weeks ago. These kids know a lot about getting fucked over by capitalism, and at the same time are skeptical as hell of anybody offering a Utopia. I just wrote up a few questions like "Is it possible to be poor in America and work over 40 hours a week? Should it be possible?" Then pointed out that this was something Marx believed, and had them debate it, then moved on to the next idea. At first they were hyped, then when I told them about how we would need a dictatorship for a while, but eventually the government would just fade away they were skeptical as hell. I'm not saying I have it perfect, but I'm working on it, and creating relevant material that feeds off kids assets while simultaneously providing extra support and resources seems to be the roadmap. The stuff I am saying is the result of the research of people who are a lot smarted than me, as well as personal experience in the classroom.

Waiting for superman is kinda bullshit though. They correctly point out problems in the school system, but seem to point to the wrong issues that are hurting them. I could go on a 10 page rant about what they are, but this reply is long enough as is. The big problems with that movie are:
1) They blame it all on unions, which thearticle I posted skims the surface of in terms of why that is flawed. My main argument is that I went to what is considered one of the best high schools in the country, and its unionized. Every top public high school is. There isn't even a correlation there, let alone causation. If you think unions are the one giant bureaucracy in urban public schools, you are missing 99% of the overgrown and unnecessary institutions bringing down these huge bureaucratic school districts. Also, At my charter school, they give us union pay + 10%. No unions = no good teachers at charters either.
2) They act like Charter schools are the answer. Here's the thing: only 13% of charter schools perform above the public school average on standardized tests. That means that 87% are doing equally to or worse than traditional public schools. That can not be considered an answer by any standard. I don't have the citation, but I've seen it plenty of times.
The fact is, even if charter schools were "an answer" they would be "the answer" ever, because a lot of kids don't end up going to charters and will never end up going to charters. We need to work to fund and fix our public schools so they can provide the teachers and resources necessary to do the job. And for the record, I've worked at both fully public (LAUSD and OUSD) schools as well as charter schools in both systems, and currently work for a charter. For the record, the reason I bounced around a lot was because at first I wasn't credentialed, but have done long term sub gigs that definitely qualify as teaching, including one from September-June in Oakland. Now I'm credentialed and chilling where I'm at, unless I can figure out a job up in The Bay again.