obama boldly goes where no other president has before... again

[Sleazy]

Obama's Israel, Palestinian surprise

campagne financing, healthcare, imigration, crossing the isle (off shore drilling, etc...) and now israel

our aliance with israel is finally being questioned by a US president forever changing the dailog from being one that assumes that israel is right and that palestine is evil to an actual two sided conversation. why do we assume that israel deserves the lands it stole in 67 and why do we support the zionist agenda in jerusalem. this is just like the gun control issue in that we are allowing a small, minority (1.7% of the population) to dominate our policy in ways that are causing the world we live in to be less safe for everyone. i have never been able to understand why the US public is so commited to the idea that israel is entitled to this land. there are few things politically that i could care less about than israel's ability to keep land it stole from it's dirt poor neighbor (and yes i know we did the same to the mexicans, indians, countless other indegenious peoples, etc...).

regardless of what he accomplishes here, he's already done more than any other president to add some balance to the conversation and to get some other options on the table. the current approach will only work if either israel or palestine are completely wiped out and clearly isn't working.

[svilleantigo]

Israel's full-on raging about this. I, Michael Jackson, sit with popcorn in hand.

[Sleazy]

but so is the arab world. they are on fire, in the streets, pumped up. now that the dictators are out they are protesting israel and if we don't change our stance, all those new arab democracies will become anti-american and what a condondrum that will create for us right. how are we going to justify invading domecratic nations? haha, the flip side of democratic middle east will be bitter sweet for a lot of americans, especially those on the far right who are perfectly happy ignoring the concerns of the arab people and instead buying the support of the dictators.

i love the direction this whole thing is heading in. and obama continues to be the smartest politician of my generation and is always ahead of the game.

swag!

[Mein Fuhrer! I can walk!]

Obama's killing it, about time somebody changed the general attitude towards Israel. As far as I'm concerned, they're one of the most evil countries in the world. (okay, giving them somebody else's country after the war wasn't the smartest move the western world could've made, but still. Israel shouldn't be allowed to do the things they do)

[Beer Keg Peg Leg]

HEH of course you would say that you germanic FUCK!!!!!!!

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

1) Obama did not change U.S. policy towards Israel, its just a right wing campaign trick to scare jews away from voting for Obama. The U.S. has always had an official, but unenforced stance that Israel goes back to the '67 borders, this is just a continuation of that. I guarantee the U.S. takes absolutely no action in terms of enforcing the idea. I do believe the U.S. should not fund them endlessly to act in ways that do not value the lives of civillian enemies without some sort of action, but at this point

One thing that throws me: the 1967 borders would put that West Bank as part of JORDAN, The Gaza strip as part of EGYPT, and the Golan Heights as part of LEBANON (who refuse to let palestinians own any level of property and force them to live in camps which are more oppressive than Israel's)? They are not dirt poor and simultaneously attacked Israel, and this was while Egypt was supported by the U.S. They fucked over palestinians, refusing to take back the land afterwards even if Israel would give it back. Really, before '67 there was no full on palestinian movement, because they felt welcomed in Jordan, and Jordan fought the anti-Israel battle on their behalf.  Before the land that makes up Israel was Israel it was part of the British empire, before that the Ottomans, and in fact, Palestine has not been an independent nation in the modern era, but both Palestinians and Jews have been claiming ownership of the land and actually living there since before the Ottomans. Jews actually lived all around the middle east and were expelled from the surrounding nations and told to go to Israel at about the same Palestinians were told to go to Jordan (neither is ok).

As for why the U.S. and originally most of Europe support Israel? There were about 10 million jews who were displaced after World War 2, no country would accept or admit them as citizens, including the U.S., which is the home of some serious xenophobes. IN order to get rid of the jews without killing them (immediately at least) Britain said Palestine should be where the jews go. They declared Israel should exist and put a bunch of PTSD genocide survivors in one country to run things. The recipe was a disaster from the beginning, but it was the 1940's- Americans hated anybody but protestant white men, and didn't want jews here, but knew that our claim to war in Europe was to save the jews, so they felt a certain level of responsibility in a place they could go aside from DP camps, Europe, or The U.S . In order to save face, they threw them all in together, put the jews in the middle of a country that supported hitler but was to weak too throw the jews out, and voila, you have a 60+ year never ending war.

I think it should also be pointed out that despite the unevenness of the situation, it is ongoing violence that has occurred coming from both sides, with each side wanting the other dead. Either side gives up, and their civilian population is at severe risk. Its a lot more complicated than people make it sound on either side. Israelis are doing fucked up shit, Palestinians are doing fucked up shit, neither created the situation, and neither will ever quit.

[Sleazy]

great post gipper

one question, any examples of other presidents having a stated foriegn policy backing the 67 borders?

also agree that this mess is the result of not knowing what to do with the jews after WWII and agree that it was a huge mistake to think that we could just put them where ever and hope that it'd work out but at what point are we done helping the jews with WWII? when will we have done enough? i understand they went through a lot but so have a lot of people. genocide, ethnic cleansing and cultural descimation isn't an uncommon tale in history, only uncommon agaisnt white's in recent centries. at what point is it ok for us to cut the cord and let the jewish people handle their own problems? especially now that the oppressed have become oppressors (yeah, i know it's two sided) but they are definintely guilty of this.

and to be clear i'm not saying i want palestine to "win," i honestly don't give a shit who wins because i could careless about the religious and real estate beef over there but if we are going to be involved then we shouldn't blindly pick one side because of a bad descion we made half a centry ago.