Thinking about joining the armed forces

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Don't judge me for what I chose to do for a decade of my life because I am proud I paid back what I thought I owed my country as a naturalized citizen of the USA.?  My family lived well below the poverty level in the Philippines and moving to the US has allowed me many opportunities including a college education.

pretty god damn noble if you ask me.

looking forward to seeing the asshole perspective on this one. come on guys, be a dick to this layzieyez. he had the nerve to risk his life to try and give something back to the country that provided his family an opportunity to a better life. how dare he.

go ahead and tell hate what a piece of shit he is for risking his life overseas in afghanistan. it's not like they posed a national security threat to us by allowing terrorist to kill thousands in NY. what a scum bag.

Sleazy, if soldiers aren't responsible for our wars, then what would happen if all soldiers refused to fight? According to you, the war would go on. I tend to think without soldiers there is no war, as the Cheneys of the world won't actually fight themselves. If you sign up for the armed forces you are volunteering to be a pawn in an immoral game. There is no other way to look at it, unless you are a dishonest recruiter.
Any response to that or are you going to keep pretending that nobody has pointed out that volunteering to join a war while it is happening or during the saber rattling leading up to it is supporting the war.

i'm pretty sure that in this imaginary utopia we'd get invaded. your a history teacher, point to one example in history of this? i'm not saying i don't feel the vibe

Imagine Live - John Lennon - 72

i'm just saying it's fantasy.

it's like vegiterians getting pissed at meat eaters. there's two problems with that. one, people are going to still choose to eat meat so get over yourself. two, even if everyone quit, we'd still kill animals due to limited resources. it's again a fantasy that strives for an imaginary utopian goal that is unachievable. i'm not saying these ideas don't have good natured premises, it's just they ignore the practicle realities of the world we live in and i feel we'd be better served trying to make sure that animals get the best quailty of life available and that wars are fought for good reasons than trying to strive for unachievable perfection. you might sell cage free to the masses, you won't sell tofu.

You are a fucking idiot and that's clearly a strawman. The argument at the beginning was are people who volunteer for the army responsible for their role in unjust wars. My answer was yes, if they know what actions are taking place. I extended the metaphor to point out that soldiers do play a vital role in war, because without them, there would be no ability to fight the wars.
But in terms of your apparent argument that drawing down our military would do any sort of harm- Do you seriously think that Iraq, Afghanistan, our interventions in South America, or our interventions in South East Asia have made us safer? That's all we've done with the military over the past 50 years. That's what they recruit for. Not because we don't have enough soldiers to guard our borders. We have far more than enough for that.
 How did Japan do after they dismantled their imperial army? How about Germany? Both seem to be fine and engaged in far less wars then they used to.
What about nations without imperial interests in the first place? Switzerland is the classic example. Hitler didn't even try to invade them in World War II and that was fucking Hitler! They had an army, but its role was nothing like the armed forces we have now. We need something more like that.
 The actions of our armed forces in this imperialist mode have done nothing but made us less safe. There is no other logical conclusion. The media is owned by the military industrial complex and will give you all these "dulce decorum est pro patria mori" lies about our military actions, but its imperialist bullshit at this point, no better than any other imperial army in history. Oh, and its bankrupting us too, so that's fucking awesome.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Oh, and joining an imperial army for money or benefits isn't noble, it just means that if somebody pays you enough, you'll become a killer.

[HATE!]

HATE, can you please give some insight regarding the call of apathy article posted at the beginning of the article? I saw it on reddit and really wanted to ask you about it.

I am not familiar with the article you're talking about.  Link?


dlx111- you're hitting nothing but net.  I am extremely uncomfortable with the over-gratitude.  I mean, I don't tell people to shut up or anything, that would be stupid and counterproductive.  I already feel weird hearing it and why should I knock someone for thinking they're doing a nice thing.  But yes, it IS overdone and I feel that there are a lot of soldiers that abuse it too- I've even seen military spouses get pissed off when a business doesn't offer a military discount.  That blows my mind.  The main reason why it's so awkward is that I am not fighting for any American's freedom.  I am fighting for fucking Afghanistan's and that kills me.  I have zero personal interest vested in the well being of that country.  I don't care if they move into the 21st century or the 11th century- they don't even care.  I don't like seeing schools built over there that are immediately taken over by the Taliban, I don't care to teach their military anything and I don't really care what their form of government is.  We aren't fighting terrorism, we're trying to change a culture and I just disagree with that.  If you're going to fight a war- it should be to earn something, right?  Well, we don't even have a hand in the Aynak mine that was recently discovered that the Afghans don't have the means to mine (China took that one somehow and I am still not exactly clear on how they did it.)  I've been deployed for nearly half the 9 years I've been in and it hasn't done a single good thing for my country.  

I am going to disagree with you (sorta) on one point, dlx111.  It's walking on thin ice to ask people about death they've experienced.  If it comes up, that is ok, but to outright ask someone is a little weird.  You don't know how that person experienced it and it's just sort of impolite because that person may have internalized a lot.  I've never personally killed someone and while I have had friends who have died, I've never personally seen one their bodies.  I've seen a few others and while I wouldn't say they "haunt" me or anything, it's still not a topic that is great to talk about.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed, I am just saying it's dicey and it should be done in a polite way.  I have a pretty thick skin and could give a shit what the majority of people think about me, but that's not always the case for others.

[oyolar]

The answer is simple kill everyone all over the planet all at once problem solved.

For once, I agree with you.

[few123456789]

Why does reading this thread make me glad most here are not enlisted?

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

I'm not sure. What exactly are you implying?

[weedpop]

I guess he means we're not "brave" or "patriotic" enough, something like that.

Sleazy, you're attributing a bunch of things to me that I never even said. I never directly insulted or criticized individual servicemen for their choices; I actually have a lot of sympathy for those people who are forced into service due to lack of opportunity, or through family pressure or misguided patriotism. I can totally understand why people would do that, and I know that not everyone shares my beliefs. Rejecting the party line on "supporting the troops" is not always about being an asshole, it's about being rational. You're insisting that holding anything but a romanticized, ultra-positive view of military service is an insult to the troops, but HATE evidently feels the exact opposite as someone who should know better than most about the depraved pointlessness of recent military conflicts.

Lazyiez should feel proud about lifting his family out of poverty and improving himself in the process, but that is only one facet of military service; the other is to go out and kill or be killed in an imperialistic chess match that benefits nobody but the power elite of the victorious party. That is the uncomfortable truth that people will always attempt to cover up with rose-tinted, nationalist rhetoric, and I'm not going to ignore it just because you think it might hurt some people's feelings.

[Truancy]

HATE, can you please give some insight regarding the call of apathy article posted at the beginning of the article? I saw it on reddit and really wanted to ask you about it.

I am not familiar with the article you're talking about. �Link?

It was posted at the beginning of this thread.

[dlx111]

HATE, can you please give some insight regarding the call of apathy article posted at the beginning of the article? I saw it on reddit and really wanted to ask you about it.

I am not familiar with the article you're talking about.  Link?


dlx111- you're hitting nothing but net.  I am extremely uncomfortable with the over-gratitude.  I mean, I don't tell people to shut up or anything, that would be stupid and counterproductive.  I already feel weird hearing it and why should I knock someone for thinking they're doing a nice thing.  But yes, it IS overdone and I feel that there are a lot of soldiers that abuse it too- I've even seen military spouses get pissed off when a business doesn't offer a military discount.  That blows my mind.  The main reason why it's so awkward is that I am not fighting for any American's freedom.  I am fighting for fucking Afghanistan's and that kills me.  I have zero personal interest vested in the well being of that country.  I don't care if they move into the 21st century or the 11th century- they don't even care.  I don't like seeing schools built over there that are immediately taken over by the Taliban, I don't care to teach their military anything and I don't really care what their form of government is.  We aren't fighting terrorism, we're trying to change a culture and I just disagree with that.  If you're going to fight a war- it should be to earn something, right?  Well, we don't even have a hand in the Aynak mine that was recently discovered that the Afghans don't have the means to mine (China took that one somehow and I am still not exactly clear on how they did it.)  I've been deployed for nearly half the 9 years I've been in and it hasn't done a single good thing for my country.  

I am going to disagree with you (sorta) on one point, dlx111.  It's walking on thin ice to ask people about death they've experienced.  If it comes up, that is ok, but to outright ask someone is a little weird.  You don't know how that person experienced it and it's just sort of impolite because that person may have internalized a lot.  I've never personally killed someone and while I have had friends who have died, I've never personally seen one their bodies.  I've seen a few others and while I wouldn't say they "haunt" me or anything, it's still not a topic that is great to talk about.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed, I am just saying it's dicey and it should be done in a polite way.  I have a pretty thick skin and could give a shit what the majority of people think about me, but that's not always the case for others.

ya, lol, i was in no way suggesting going up to someone and asking if theyve killed someone. that would be disrespectful and all sorts. And i actually rad about that mine thing, unbelievably, in Forbes magazine! They were talking about it like it was some great business opportunity, and were literally ADVOCATING taking these peoples land, giving them below minimal pay for working in ridiculous conditions, and on top of that were acting like it was just another investment!! That story just blew mind as far as outright disrespect for a people whose country your trying to help and bring freedom to, and the only thing you can think of is STRIPPING THEIR LAND OF RESOURCES! Heres an idea, how bout let an afghan entrepreneur start a company with the help of maybe some caring American business men, and let the people see what kind of potential a blooming country can have!

In my opinion, one of the only ways to get some real progress over there, is for passionate individuals to show those people dignity and love and help them to make a living for themselves.

[tough omelette]

Threads - Nuclear War, 1984	Small | Large

[HATE!]

HATE, can you please give some insight regarding the call of apathy article posted at the beginning of the article? I saw it on reddit and really wanted to ask you about it.

I am not familiar with the article you're talking about.  Link?


dlx111- you're hitting nothing but net.  I am extremely uncomfortable with the over-gratitude.  I mean, I don't tell people to shut up or anything, that would be stupid and counterproductive.  I already feel weird hearing it and why should I knock someone for thinking they're doing a nice thing.  But yes, it IS overdone and I feel that there are a lot of soldiers that abuse it too- I've even seen military spouses get pissed off when a business doesn't offer a military discount.  That blows my mind.  The main reason why it's so awkward is that I am not fighting for any American's freedom.  I am fighting for fucking Afghanistan's and that kills me.  I have zero personal interest vested in the well being of that country.  I don't care if they move into the 21st century or the 11th century- they don't even care.  I don't like seeing schools built over there that are immediately taken over by the Taliban, I don't care to teach their military anything and I don't really care what their form of government is.  We aren't fighting terrorism, we're trying to change a culture and I just disagree with that.  If you're going to fight a war- it should be to earn something, right?  Well, we don't even have a hand in the Aynak mine that was recently discovered that the Afghans don't have the means to mine (China took that one somehow and I am still not exactly clear on how they did it.)  I've been deployed for nearly half the 9 years I've been in and it hasn't done a single good thing for my country.  

I am going to disagree with you (sorta) on one point, dlx111.  It's walking on thin ice to ask people about death they've experienced.  If it comes up, that is ok, but to outright ask someone is a little weird.  You don't know how that person experienced it and it's just sort of impolite because that person may have internalized a lot.  I've never personally killed someone and while I have had friends who have died, I've never personally seen one their bodies.  I've seen a few others and while I wouldn't say they "haunt" me or anything, it's still not a topic that is great to talk about.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed, I am just saying it's dicey and it should be done in a polite way.  I have a pretty thick skin and could give a shit what the majority of people think about me, but that's not always the case for others.

ya, lol, i was in no way suggesting going up to someone and asking if theyve killed someone. that would be disrespectful and all sorts. And i actually rad about that mine thing, unbelievably, in Forbes magazine! They were talking about it like it was some great business opportunity, and were literally ADVOCATING taking these peoples land, giving them below minimal pay for working in ridiculous conditions, and on top of that were acting like it was just another investment!! That story just blew mind as far as outright disrespect for a people whose country your trying to help and bring freedom to, and the only thing you can think of is STRIPPING THEIR LAND OF RESOURCES! Heres an idea, how bout let an afghan entrepreneur start a company with the help of maybe some caring American business men, and let the people see what kind of potential a blooming country can have!

In my opinion, one of the only ways to get some real progress over there, is for passionate individuals to show those people dignity and love and help them to make a living for themselves.

I know all about the Aynak mine.  It was in my province in Afghanistan and people would ask about it from time to time.  I think the reason why we were so quick to want to mine it and take it for what it was worth was twofold.  One- greed, duh.  Two- and I think it's obvious, but we were/are getting desperate to walk out of there with SOMETHING.  We have fucking zero to show for this war except a fat ass receipt.

Your second idea as to what to do with it is nice, yet 100$ impossible.  I am saying this with firsthand knowledge of a very wide variety of Afghans.  I've been around high military officials and politicians and I've been around your ragged low level farmer.  The problem is that the country and the culture is inherently corrupt.  Corruption is part of their identity.  The more well to do are where they are because they were born into it, have no problem totally fucking someone over and have their hand out while their other hand is in their neighbor's pocket.  And the neighbor doesn't give a shit.  I remember asking a dude about what went down and what his reaction was when the Taliban would ride their motorcycles into his village, demand supplies, sometimes kick people out of their home and take it over or whatever.  His response was that that was how life was and that he would just move in with family.  He wouldn't stand up for himself because he didn't want to get fucked up and because that was the way shit was.  Fucking Karzai's brother is a huge drug kingpin who is more or less a gangster.  Hmmm, I wonder how Karzai got in charge?  Because he is from an affluent family that is known.  How do you make money in Afghanistan?  Drugs.  Corruption.  It's so fucked up and backwards and they are fine with that.  How do they know that the grass is greener on the other side if they don't even know that the other side exists?  You can't change culture overnight, it takes decades.

Truancy- I read the article, and while I can't 100%  identify with it because I am not in a Combat Arms job- I did roll out with them regularly in Iraq (I basically had a desk/liason type job in Afghanistan.)  I was just south of Sadr City in Eastern Baghdad around the same time that the author of that article was.  I agree with him- it does take a specific breed of human to do what they do, but I think he wrote off the after effects of joking about it a little too simply.  There are a lot more complexities in there.  Some make jokes to deal with the stress of what they've seen, some turn to substance, some go all the way and just more or less embrace that savage side.  I make jokes when I am stressed.  My first time outside the wire, I was hit with an IED that was emplaced at a Police checkpoint because the cops were all paid off by Jaysh al-Mahdi (Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army that was on the news all the time.)  It ended in a full on stand off with guns drawn because they were offended when we suggested that someone on duty may have allowed the shit to happen.  These were dudes that we were training every day.  I actually could have potentially met and ate with my killer.  That's fucking heavy.  The way I dealt with that was making jokes.  We played, "Would you rather?" and tried to not think about it.

I don't know if I have PTSD.  It's not as easy to diagnose as the media makes it sound.  I fucking swear that they make it sound like you can say, "Well, he saw some shit, he's fucked up."  Then what?  An arsenal of pills that may or may not solve the problem?  I don't have a problem saying that I am currently seeing a counselor and have been for awhile.  My third deployment had some pretty horrible shit happen to me.  I didn't get hurt while I was over there or see anything that I couldn't deal with, but without getting into it, I'll just say that when I left I had a home and a wife and when I came back, I literally had nothing except my clothing and most of my record collection.  I literally had nothing else.  I had a very, VERY dark year after that.  Then I slowly started to turn things around.  I still see the counselor even though I am pretty happy.  I still have some issues and I am still dealing with it, but I think I am ok.  I don't care if Kab thinks I kill people for money.  I don't care if people view me as a cog in a war machine- I mean if that's what you want to call it, then yeah, I am, but at the same time, that's why I am getting out, because I have my own problems with that.  I know I am walking into a fragile economy and that I could retire in 11 years, but it's just not worth it to me.  I'm over it.

Fuck!  Y'all are dragging some shit out!  I hope this helps others who are curious and may not be talking out (fucking lurkers!)  The author of that article was DEAD on- there is no stereotype of a soldier.  I mean, Jesus, I am pretty left wing, a vegetarian with a soft spot for animals and the environment, and I do not have or support any belief system in a higher power whatsoever.  On that alone, I am the opposite of the stereotype.  Anyway- this has been an interesting thread to say the least!

[Tale Crab]

Don't judge me for what I chose to do for a decade of my life because I am proud I paid back what I thought I owed my country as a naturalized citizen of the USA.?  My family lived well below the poverty level in the Philippines and moving to the US has allowed me many opportunities including a college education.

pretty god damn noble if you ask me.

looking forward to seeing the asshole perspective on this one. come on guys, be a dick to this layzieyez. he had the nerve to risk his life to try and give something back to the country that provided his family an opportunity to a better life. how dare he.

go ahead and tell hate what a piece of shit he is for risking his life overseas in afghanistan. it's not like they posed a national security threat to us by allowing terrorist to kill thousands in NY. what a scum bag.

I must admit I feel sincerely sorry for anyone viewing it this way. I don't wish to look down on anyone, it just makes me feel sorry.
Clearly you have been brought up in culture that embraces and glorifies these efforts, rather than you respecting them as a result of your own consideration. I don't see it much different than North Koreans worshipping their almighty leader only because that is what they are being taught all their lives, only the scale of things is different.
Living halfway across the world, while our culture deeply respects the efforts of our very few veterans still standing, the desire to have more is nonexistent.

Both of my grandfathers were closely affected by the WWII, one having to flee his home at a young age never to return, and the other fighting the war at my age. Neither of them ever said a single word of those times, not to us, not to their children, not even to their spouses. The one who fought the war asked my father, if he ever in is old age would begin telling stories of those times, to smash him out cold.

I for one don't understand the references to paying your debt to a country by fighting a war that clearly has no threat to its livelyhood or safety. At best it's to calm down the deliberately built paranoia that "they're coming", or to underline the self-acclaimed superiority.

[steve]

HATE, can you please give some insight regarding the call of apathy article posted at the beginning of the article? I saw it on reddit and really wanted to ask you about it.

I am not familiar with the article you're talking about.  Link?


dlx111- you're hitting nothing but net.  I am extremely uncomfortable with the over-gratitude.  I mean, I don't tell people to shut up or anything, that would be stupid and counterproductive.  I already feel weird hearing it and why should I knock someone for thinking they're doing a nice thing.  But yes, it IS overdone and I feel that there are a lot of soldiers that abuse it too- I've even seen military spouses get pissed off when a business doesn't offer a military discount.  That blows my mind.  The main reason why it's so awkward is that I am not fighting for any American's freedom.  I am fighting for fucking Afghanistan's and that kills me.  I have zero personal interest vested in the well being of that country.  I don't care if they move into the 21st century or the 11th century- they don't even care.  I don't like seeing schools built over there that are immediately taken over by the Taliban, I don't care to teach their military anything and I don't really care what their form of government is.  We aren't fighting terrorism, we're trying to change a culture and I just disagree with that.  If you're going to fight a war- it should be to earn something, right?  Well, we don't even have a hand in the Aynak mine that was recently discovered that the Afghans don't have the means to mine (China took that one somehow and I am still not exactly clear on how they did it.)  I've been deployed for nearly half the 9 years I've been in and it hasn't done a single good thing for my country.  

I am going to disagree with you (sorta) on one point, dlx111.  It's walking on thin ice to ask people about death they've experienced.  If it comes up, that is ok, but to outright ask someone is a little weird.  You don't know how that person experienced it and it's just sort of impolite because that person may have internalized a lot.  I've never personally killed someone and while I have had friends who have died, I've never personally seen one their bodies.  I've seen a few others and while I wouldn't say they "haunt" me or anything, it's still not a topic that is great to talk about.  I'm not saying it shouldn't be discussed, I am just saying it's dicey and it should be done in a polite way.  I have a pretty thick skin and could give a shit what the majority of people think about me, but that's not always the case for others.

ya, lol, i was in no way suggesting going up to someone and asking if theyve killed someone. that would be disrespectful and all sorts. And i actually rad about that mine thing, unbelievably, in Forbes magazine! They were talking about it like it was some great business opportunity, and were literally ADVOCATING taking these peoples land, giving them below minimal pay for working in ridiculous conditions, and on top of that were acting like it was just another investment!! That story just blew mind as far as outright disrespect for a people whose country your trying to help and bring freedom to, and the only thing you can think of is STRIPPING THEIR LAND OF RESOURCES! Heres an idea, how bout let an afghan entrepreneur start a company with the help of maybe some caring American business men, and let the people see what kind of potential a blooming country can have!

In my opinion, one of the only ways to get some real progress over there, is for passionate individuals to show those people dignity and love and help them to make a living for themselves.

I know all about the Aynak mine.  It was in my province in Afghanistan and people would ask about it from time to time.  I think the reason why we were so quick to want to mine it and take it for what it was worth was twofold.  One- greed, duh.  Two- and I think it's obvious, but we were/are getting desperate to walk out of there with SOMETHING.  We have fucking zero to show for this war except a fat ass receipt.

Your second idea as to what to do with it is nice, yet 100$ impossible.  I am saying this with firsthand knowledge of a very wide variety of Afghans.  I've been around high military officials and politicians and I've been around your ragged low level farmer.  The problem is that the country and the culture is inherently corrupt.  Corruption is part of their identity.  The more well to do are where they are because they were born into it, have no problem totally fucking someone over and have their hand out while their other hand is in their neighbor's pocket.  And the neighbor doesn't give a shit.  I remember asking a dude about what went down and what his reaction was when the Taliban would ride their motorcycles into his village, demand supplies, sometimes kick people out of their home and take it over or whatever.  His response was that that was how life was and that he would just move in with family.  He wouldn't stand up for himself because he didn't want to get fucked up and because that was the way shit was.  Fucking Karzai's brother is a huge drug kingpin who is more or less a gangster.  Hmmm, I wonder how Karzai got in charge?  Because he is from an affluent family that is known.  How do you make money in Afghanistan?  Drugs.  Corruption.  It's so fucked up and backwards and they are fine with that.  How do they know that the grass is greener on the other side if they don't even know that the other side exists?  You can't change culture overnight, it takes decades.

Truancy- I read the article, and while I can't 100%  identify with it because I am not in a Combat Arms job- I did roll out with them regularly in Iraq (I basically had a desk/liason type job in Afghanistan.)  I was just south of Sadr City in Eastern Baghdad around the same time that the author of that article was.  I agree with him- it does take a specific breed of human to do what they do, but I think he wrote off the after effects of joking about it a little too simply.  There are a lot more complexities in there.  Some make jokes to deal with the stress of what they've seen, some turn to substance, some go all the way and just more or less embrace that savage side.  I make jokes when I am stressed.  My first time outside the wire, I was hit with an IED that was emplaced at a Police checkpoint because the cops were all paid off by Jaysh al-Mahdi (Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi Army that was on the news all the time.)  It ended in a full on stand off with guns drawn because they were offended when we suggested that someone on duty may have allowed the shit to happen.  These were dudes that we were training every day.  I actually could have potentially met and ate with my killer.  That's fucking heavy.  The way I dealt with that was making jokes.  We played, "Would you rather?" and tried to not think about it.

I don't know if I have PTSD.  It's not as easy to diagnose as the media makes it sound.  I fucking swear that they make it sound like you can say, "Well, he saw some shit, he's fucked up."  Then what?  An arsenal of pills that may or may not solve the problem?  I don't have a problem saying that I am currently seeing a counselor and have been for awhile.  My third deployment had some pretty horrible shit happen to me.  I didn't get hurt while I was over there or see anything that I couldn't deal with, but without getting into it, I'll just say that when I left I had a home and a wife and when I came back, I literally had nothing except my clothing and most of my record collection.  I literally had nothing else.  I had a very, VERY dark year after that.  Then I slowly started to turn things around.  I still see the counselor even though I am pretty happy.  I still have some issues and I am still dealing with it, but I think I am ok.  I don't care if Kab thinks I kill people for money.  I don't care if people view me as a cog in a war machine- I mean if that's what you want to call it, then yeah, I am, but at the same time, that's why I am getting out, because I have my own problems with that.  I know I am walking into a fragile economy and that I could retire in 11 years, but it's just not worth it to me.  I'm over it.

Fuck!  Y'all are dragging some shit out!  I hope this helps others who are curious and may not be talking out (fucking lurkers!)  The author of that article was DEAD on- there is no stereotype of a soldier.  I mean, Jesus, I am pretty left wing, a vegetarian with a soft spot for animals and the environment, and I do not have or support any belief system in a higher power whatsoever.  On that alone, I am the opposite of the stereotype.  Anyway- this has been an interesting thread to say the least!

good post. thanks for getting on this level. i think that you are answering questions that many people in the US have and are generally unable to find answers to.

[tough omelette]

i definitely learned a lot from this thread. i can't say how appreciative and fortunate i am to even be able to log on to the internet and type this out.

[Wall of Nausea]

The answer is simple kill everyone all over the planet all at once problem solved.

Including all the artist's that work on your jerk off batman rags.

[HATE!]

i definitely learned a lot from this thread. i can't say how appreciative and fortunate i am to even be able to log on to the internet and type this out.

It's weird you should say that.  As I was typing out my last long as post I was thinking how we take for granted the fact that we can get online and that we have "the right" to bitch.  I've been in places where if the locals complained about the government they'd catch a beating or worse.

[layzieyez]

Fighting for my country?  Did none of you read the part where I told you that I'm a photojournalist?

My job is to promote the positive achievements of the navy and document the navy's story.

I have never nor have I any desire to be boots on ground (which is the main reason I joined the navy instead of the army or marines).  The closest I have come to military death is talking with purple heart recipients who tell me about their friends turning into pink mist after stepping on an anti-tank mine or hospital corpsmen getting grade 3 concussions from IEDs while still trying to patch together everyone else hit by the same IED.

Also, I have photographed autopsies and dead fetuses for my country.

Before this current job, I was the single handed computer support for three large detachments covering the news (print, radio or video) from the persian gulf to the west coast (the largest area of responsibility in all of the navy's fleets).

Before that, I single handed provided logistic support for all media operations aboard the 7th fleet flag ship.

Not everyone in the military has a job to go kill people.  If you think that, then you really are pretty ignorant.

[kilgore.]

KILL EM' ALL, LET GOD SORT EM' OUT.

[weedpop]

Not everyone in the military has a job to go kill people.  If you think that, then you really are pretty ignorant.

I don't think anyone actually accused you of killing people. By the same token though, not everyone in the military is a photojournalist or intelligence operator. Anyway, there's no need to be so defensive, you don't have to justify what you do to anyone on here.

[brycickle]

Do what I'm doing and become a fire fighter instead.

[aWizard]

Not everyone in the military has a job to go kill people.  If you think that, then you really are pretty ignorant.

I don't think anyone actually accused you of killing people. By the same token though, not everyone in the military is a photojournalist or intelligence operator. Anyway, there's no need to be so defensive, you don't have to justify what you do to anyone on here.

Don't say there's no need to be defensive, when there are people in this thread saying "go die for oil".

Do what I'm doing and become a fire fighter instead.

The military has fire fighters too....

[HATE!]

The military has fire fighters too....

They actually don't anymore, or if they do they are extremely limited in capacity.  They've all gone to civilian dudes- even in deployed areas.

[Sleazy]

gipper, good point about germany and other similar demilitarized countries but there's still no getting rid of war. surely you see that being a history teacher. my point is simply don't blame the troups for the shitty causes, it's not their doing. and my follow up point was that people join for lots of reasons and that getting to kill people is probably not most peoples primary motivator and infact is probably what most people dread the most outside of dying in action. there's just way too many people painting it like combat is actually something people enjoy.

weedpop, your last post makes me think i may have overstated my position and that we are closer aligned than we both originally though. my whole posting in this thread started after someone posted a die for oil suckers DK poster. that just seems harsh to me, especially knowing that people like hate post here.

[frisco]

*Mandatory slightly relevant movie gif*

[layzieyez]

The military has fire fighters too....

They actually don't anymore, or if they do they are extremely limited in capacity.  They've all gone to civilian dudes- even in deployed areas.

Navy still does.  They are called damage controlmen, but every shipboard sailor is required to know and qualify in basic firefighting skills.

[HATE!]

The military has fire fighters too....

They actually don't anymore, or if they do they are extremely limited in capacity.  They've all gone to civilian dudes- even in deployed areas.

Navy still does.  They are called damage controlmen, but every shipboard sailor is required to know and qualify in basic firefighting skills.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the Navy- I figured they would, if anyone, just because they go out on ships and you need people who are specifically trained for fires, whereas, I am at a stateside base and we can just have a regular fire. dept.  When I was in the Air Force, they still had military firefighters and I was always jealous of them because they always seemed to be outside having fun since they're just on call and not always dealing with fires.  I was on night shift and we used to play their dudes in basketball and they crushed us since they had all the time to practice.

[aWizard]

Air Force still has firefighters as far as I know.

[Kab]

Some awesome points made in this thread.

Anyone who's thinking of enlisting should read this short book by General Smedley Butler, written shortly before the start of WWII. In fact everyone in this thread should read it as well, and don't assume it's garbage just because you think I'm a dick.

You can see it online here:

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html

[HATE!]

Air Force still has firefighters as far as I know.

You know, now that I am thinking about it, I am pretty sure that it's just the Army who pared them down.  We're the ones with the biggest force and we have the most deployed so a lot of jobs were dissolved so that they could funnel more recruits into more deployment ready positions.  Places like the Navy and the Air Force have a much higher likelihood of fire when they have things like jets and whatever other chemicals are used in their vehicles etc.  I am on a base that his half training units and then the rest is light infantry.  We don't have anything to crazy in terms of vehicles and our HMMW-V (that's a humvee) are fueled with JP-8 which is a fuel that has an unbelievably low flash point.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

gipper, good point about germany and other similar demilitarized countries but there's still no getting rid of war. surely you see that being a history teacher. my point is simply don't blame the troups for the shitty causes, it's not their doing. and my follow up point was that people join for lots of reasons and that getting to kill people is probably not most peoples primary motivator and infact is probably what most people dread the most outside of dying in action. there's just way too many people painting it like combat is actually something people enjoy.

I'm not saying entirely eliminating war, but as a history teacher what I actually see is that most of the wars the U.S. has been in have been avoidable and we have been the aggressor. Whether or not somebody joins the army to pillage and kill or they join it to get money for college, the Army wants them there so they can pillage and kill, and in the end 99% of it is for profit. In the end, if you know what your army is doing or have the ablity to know what they are doing, then you are responsible for what you do when you join. If you joined the army iin the middle of the Iraq war, you were supporting the Iraq war effort. If somebody decided to join the German army in 1942, I'd say they were Nazi scum, not patriots who didn't get to choose the war.

Kab- I always thought "War is a Racket" was just a speech, but an amazing one. Butler is really interesting too, because right around the time FDR was elected, several corporate leaders tried to organize a fascist coup and tried to enlist Butler as the military leader for the overthrow, but he refused and turned them in. He was in many ways a true patriot, and had a true sense of what war does to this country, and let's remember, this is BEFORE we had permanent war industries, which have made the MI complex so much worse.
Here's Butler's speech:

War is a Racket by Smedley Butler	Small | Large

Here's a thing about the American fascists he helped defeat:

Major General Smedley Butler & The Fascist Takeover Of The USA - A Warning From History

Here's a little food for thought about America as an empire:

A People's History of American Empire by Howard Zinn	Small | Large