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Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: PABLOS SWANPOWERS LOBSTER on August 24, 2018, 01:07:08 PM
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<blockquote class="instagram-media" data-instgrm-permalink="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm36hgsgDVt/?utm_source=ig_embed" data-instgrm-version="9" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:540px; min-width:326px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GPT6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div><p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm36hgsgDVt/?utm_source=ig_embed" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none;" target="_blank">A post shared by PALACE (@palaceskateboards)</a> on <time style=" font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px;" datetime="2018-08-24T19:38:50+00:00">Aug 24, 2018 at 12:38pm PDT</time></p></div></blockquote> <script async defer src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>
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He doesnt really fit, but I think it would be cool if he got on.
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old footage from when Mwadlands opened.
no.
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" data-instgrm-version="9" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:540px; min-width:326px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GPT6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div><p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="
DAMN this is some illuminati-level of industry secrets all encoded an' shit, son.
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" data-instgrm-version="9" style=" background:#FFF; border:0; border-radius:3px; box-shadow:0 0 1px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.5),0 1px 10px 0 rgba(0,0,0,0.15); margin: 1px; max-width:540px; min-width:326px; padding:0; width:99.375%; width:-webkit-calc(100% - 2px); width:calc(100% - 2px);"><div style="padding:8px;"> <div style=" background:#F8F8F8; line-height:0; margin-top:40px; padding:50% 0; text-align:center; width:100%;"> <div style=" background:url(data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACwAAAAsCAMAAAApWqozAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAAAFzUkdCAK7OHOkAAAAMUExURczMzPf399fX1+bm5mzY9AMAAADiSURBVDjLvZXbEsMgCES5/P8/t9FuRVCRmU73JWlzosgSIIZURCjo/ad+EQJJB4Hv8BFt+IDpQoCx1wjOSBFhh2XssxEIYn3ulI/6MNReE07UIWJEv8UEOWDS88LY97kqyTliJKKtuYBbruAyVh5wOHiXmpi5we58Ek028czwyuQdLKPG1Bkb4NnM+VeAnfHqn1k4+GPT6uGQcvu2h2OVuIf/gWUFyy8OWEpdyZSa3aVCqpVoVvzZZ2VTnn2wU8qzVjDDetO90GSy9mVLqtgYSy231MxrY6I2gGqjrTY0L8fxCxfCBbhWrsYYAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC); display:block; height:44px; margin:0 auto -44px; position:relative; top:-22px; width:44px;"></div></div><p style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; line-height:17px; margin-bottom:0; margin-top:8px; overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="
DAMN this is some illuminati-level of industry secrets all encoded an' shit, son.
Run while you still can, GAY. The powers that be know you know.
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You're a kook
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stylin on you potential
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You're a kook
No, you are.
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No, you are.
Perfect deflection.
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Penny skated there too, is he on? No.
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him and Prawn can shoot things in the head together
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how many years its been since he left Flip? 4 or even 5? It surprises me he doesnt give a fuck about having a board sponsor (or start his own co)
would cop a Rowley Palace board in a heartbeat tho
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No, you are.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/281/691/992.png)
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Perfect deflection.
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him and Prawn can shoot things in the head together
What Geoff does is respectable
Prawn, not backing it
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him and Prawn can shoot things in the head together
What Geoff does is respectable
Prawn, not backing it
Is it? Geoff's hunting shit is pretty terrible. To go from vegan to hunting for sport is fucked.
On topic, Geoff will probably never be on a board brand again. I think he is on the graceful bow out. As much as I loved his stuff as a kid the truth is that he can't skate big stuff anymore and he isn't particularly known for his low impact game.
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him and Prawn can shoot things in the head together
What Geoff does is respectable
Prawn, not backing it
Is it? Geoff's hunting shit is pretty terrible. To go from vegan to hunting for sport is fucked.
On topic, Geoff will probably never be on a board brand again. I think he is on the graceful bow out. As much as I loved his stuff as a kid the truth is that he can't skate big stuff anymore and he isn't particularly known for his low impact game.
Nothing wrong with legal hunting IMO
I do it to and it fills my freezer
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him and Prawn can shoot things in the head together
What Geoff does is respectable
Prawn, not backing it
Is it? Geoff's hunting shit is pretty terrible. To go from vegan to hunting for sport is fucked.
On topic, Geoff will probably never be on a board brand again. I think he is on the graceful bow out. As much as I loved his stuff as a kid the truth is that he can't skate big stuff anymore and he isn't particularly known for his low impact game.
Nothing wrong with legal hunting IMO
I do it to and it fills my freezer
I dont hunt but I have more respect for people who do and sustain themselves than people who continue to eat meat and shame hunters like they are doing something inhumane.
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You're a kook
You're a fag. I hope all the bad things in this world happen to you and only you. Bitch tits
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him and Prawn can shoot things in the head together
What Geoff does is respectable
Prawn, not backing it
Is it? Geoff's hunting shit is pretty terrible. To go from vegan to hunting for sport is fucked.
On topic, Geoff will probably never be on a board brand again. I think he is on the graceful bow out. As much as I loved his stuff as a kid the truth is that he can't skate big stuff anymore and he isn't particularly known for his low impact game.
Nothing wrong with legal hunting IMO
I do it to and it fills my freezer
In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
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him and Prawn can shoot things in the head together
What Geoff does is respectable
Prawn, not backing it
well it depends on what you define as "respectable". Like he could just not kill shit too which is even more respectable no?
(yes, I realize that him hunting his own meat is better than supporting the animal agriculture industry but posing/ bragging in front of dead animal carcasses on insta is disgusting)
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Geoff Rowley is to Palace as Coke is to chocolate.
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In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
I don't hate you as a poster mate but if you used any of those excuses for raping women, you know you'd sound like a absolute psychopath yeah?
"well, I was brought up on rape culture, we do it as ethically as possible"
"I get that some people don't like it but it's my job maintain my DNA line"
"I enjoy and respect women"
"I don't rape mothers or kids, only aging single women"
What I am trying to say is that none of those reasons actually justify the killing of animals
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In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
"well, I was brought up on rape culture, we do it as ethically as possible"
"I get that some people don't like it but it's my job maintain my DNA line"
"I enjoy and respect women"
"I don't rape mothers or kids, only aging single women"
if you used your reasons for being vegan as an excuse to rape women you'd be a psychopath too.
the crazy part is the raping women, not the culture of hunting your own food. hunters are the realest, followed by vegans who grow their own food an on down the line to people who support factory farming and even large scale produce. you got your mexican exploitation, GMOs, pesticides and so on. let's not castigate a guy wants to kill a free animal for food.
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let's not castigate a guy wants to kill a free animal for food.
I agree, and as I stated I don't hate him as a poster. I just think the reasons he listed don't necessarily justify the means in his (or Geoff's) case...
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how many years its been since he left Flip? 4 or even 5? It surprises me he doesnt give a fuck about having a board sponsor (or start his own co)
would cop a Rowley Palace board in a heartbeat tho
He had that Toy Machine guest board. Was hoping he'd get on. Where will he end up? Who knows.
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In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
"well, I was brought up on rape culture, we do it as ethically as possible"
"I get that some people don't like it but it's my job maintain my DNA line"
"I enjoy and respect women"
"I don't rape mothers or kids, only aging single women"
What I am trying to say is that none of those reasons actually justify the killing of animals
whoa
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In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
"well, I was brought up on rape culture, we do it as ethically as possible"
"I get that some people don't like it but it's my job maintain my DNA line"
"I enjoy and respect women"
"I don't rape mothers or kids, only aging single women"
What I am trying to say is that none of those reasons actually justify the killing of animals
Well that escalated.
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In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
"well, I was brought up on rape culture, we do it as ethically as possible"
"I get that some people don't like it but it's my job maintain my DNA line"
"I enjoy and respect women"
"I don't rape mothers or kids, only aging single women"
What I am trying to say is that none of those reasons actually justify the killing of animals
You've jumped the shark there.
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The hottest of takes in this thread.
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In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
"well, I was brought up on rape culture, we do it as ethically as possible"
"I get that some people don't like it but it's my job maintain my DNA line"
"I enjoy and respect women"
"I don't rape mothers or kids, only aging single women"
What I am trying to say is that none of those reasons actually justify the killing of animals
yeah not really, none of those excuses really justify an action (whether that be rape or eating animal corpses) and are basically a mix of appeal to nature fallacies.
If he said, "yo, I live in a rural part of Canada were we have snow 10 months of the year and I'm unable to grow veggies (or buy fresh local produce) hence I shoot shit in the head to fill my freezer for the colder months to stay self sufficient" then sure, I think that's a viable/ justifiable excuse but "It's okay because my ancestors did it" is pretty meh in terms of an argument...
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^so your a vegetarian i suppose. but yah for some people in north america AND in Oz the ancestor 'excuse' should suffice. Those people are native to their respective countries and their societies weren't the ones that landed the worlds enviroment into the world of shit its in now.
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the ancestor 'excuse' should suffice
"ancestors" did a lot of things that people wouldn't do today (look up the Sambia tribe rituals), ancestors also didn't communicate using the internet. It's a poor argument and a shitty cop-out
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He's in the business of making low quality camping products isn't he? - Specifically - knives with plastic handles. But his customer base is still teenage skateboarders. Anyone who knows anything about hunting knives wouldn't be seen dead with one of his Fisherprice efforts. Someone showed me this one the other day:
https://civilware.com/collections/featured/products/copy-of-striker-folding-knife-br-green
Couldn't believe how terrible the quality was. A snip at $150.
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He's in the business of making low quality camping products isn't he? - Specifically - knives with plastic handles. But his customer base is still teenage skateboarders. Anyone who knows anything about hunting knives wouldn't be seen dead with one of his Fisherprice efforts. Someone showed me this one the other day:
https://civilware.com/collections/featured/products/copy-of-striker-folding-knife-br-green
Couldn't believe how terrible the quality was. A snip at $150.
Wow. That is such a ripoff lol
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Specifically - knives with plastic handles.
Just going to go out on a limb here and say that 75-90% of expensive knives use "plastic" handles whether its G10 or micarta. It's far from "plastic". That being said his company is still way over priced and they don't even tell you what kind of steel they use for the blades most the time.
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I'll elaborate - when I held the knife, the handle didn't feel like solid plastic. It felt hollow.
I don't know much about knives but it looked like shit and it felt like shit in my hand.
He makes tat for Rowley fans who like camping.
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Specifically - knives with plastic handles.
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In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
"well, I was brought up on rape culture, we do it as ethically as possible"
"I get that some people don't like it but it's my job maintain my DNA line"
"I enjoy and respect women"
"I don't rape mothers or kids, only aging single women"
What I am trying to say is that none of those reasons actually justify the killing of animals
but i guess they are justified for the power you are using to post on this forum, for the natural habitats that were destroyed for your home...
everything we do as a society kills animals not just our food production and by participating on any level there is blood on your hands too. somewhere up the chain your reasoning will also be faulty unless you are literally living in the wilderness and sprinkling DDT on you to keep the insects from bitting.
Betaphenylethylalamine post shown an awareness, diplomacy and reasonable approach to the issue that is completely lacking in your response which is idealistic, impractical and kind of dickish.
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In our area your raised on it. And it's all as ethical as possible.
I get that some people dont like it bit it's my job to feed my family.
I enjoy it and respect nature, I do my best to approach it. That way.
I dont shoot mothers or their kiddos. I target big meat, older animals.
And if I cant drop it on the spot, I pass on the shot
"well, I was brought up on rape culture, we do it as ethically as possible"
"I get that some people don't like it but it's my job maintain my DNA line"
"I enjoy and respect women"
"I don't rape mothers or kids, only aging single women"
What I am trying to say is that none of those reasons actually justify the killing of animals
but i guess they are justified for the power you are using to post on this forum, for the natural habitats that were destroyed for your home...
everything we do as a society kills animals not just our food production and by participating on any level there is blood on your hands too. somewhere up the chain your reasoning will also be faulty unless you are literally living in the wilderness and sprinkling DDT on you to keep the insects from bitting.
Betaphenylethylalamine post shown an awareness, diplomacy and reasonable approach to the issue that is completely lacking in your response which is idealistic, impractical and kind of dickish.
However, one could argue that doing "something" is better than doing nothing at all.
With that said, I think it's annoying as fuck when vegan or vegeterians lash back at someone with a response like that. I still eat meat and have a hard time substituting it for plant-based food as I have alot of allergies (I have tried many times and haven't found a solution). However, I'd like to raise a few questions/points for someone who's well read on veganism as I'm not sure I would be vegan even if I could:
- Couldn't you say eating meat is the most natural thing in the world? Look how all of the animal kingdom that require everything meat has to offer feed themselves - they hunt and they eat meat. Avoiding meat makes for going out of your way to get everything the body needs just "to work" and research shows it's often not enough in which they have to turn to modern science and pills/shows to get vitamins etc. It's selfish to say, but we are on the top of the food chain and it all seems sort of natural - although I'm not saying that is what makes it right or okay.
I realize it's easy to argue that we have come far enough to be able to rely on science and that makes us able to be to not eat meat. However, that leads me to my next point:
- I know captivated animals suffer in various degrees, but say someone hunts like Betaphenylethylalamine - do animals really care? The only research I've found is that cows, for example, "may be able to feel shyness or fear". Would they be able to tell if their sibling got shot - would they feel bad about it like a human would? Most research I've found show that they probably do not, and that is why the "rape argument" isn't really valid. Most meat-eaters would agree that eating a dog is fucked as they have a deeper sense of emotion and are able to actually think deeper than instant emotions. The meat industry is a whole other point, and that is why I try to get my meat at the best places possible.
- There is also the question about environmental issues, but that's a whole other topic in which I have similar arguments, I guess.
I'm not saying this to defend or support meat-eating, it's from genuine interest and I can't seem to find good enough answers anywhere.
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putting dogs above other animals is ethnocentric bullshit. you're just indoctrinated that way like hindus are indoctrinated to worship cows and ignore human suffering.
i can see not wanting to intentionally cause harm but like sleazy pointed out, ain't nobody's hands clean so nobody should high horse anyone else [not accusing gism of that].
from what i've read [i don't know how to scientifically experiment myself] the meat industry is destroying our quality of life, the environment, the rain forest and more so it's better to be veggie just based off that. you can prolly find a right wing, big meat scientist to debate that but whatever.
just like not everyone can forage veggies, it's not sustainable for everyone to hunt their own meat ergo the agriculture industry but shit is wild out of control. hunting is doing it the right way.
meat industry is profiting off cruelty but not being balls enough to take a life and put it in your mouth.
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Hey so is Geoff on Palace
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putting dogs above other animals is ethnocentric bullshit. you're just indoctrinated that way like hindus are indoctrinated to worship cows and ignore human suffering.
i can see not wanting to intentionally cause harm but like sleazy pointed out, ain't nobody's hands clean so nobody should high horse anyone else [not accusing gism of that].
from what i've read [i don't know how to scientifically experiment myself] the meat industry is destroying our quality of life, the environment, the rain forest and more so it's better to be veggie just based off that. you can prolly find a right wing, big meat scientist to debate that but whatever.
just like not everyone can forage veggies, it's not sustainable for everyone to hunt their own meat ergo the agriculture industry but shit is wild out of control. hunting is doing it the right way.
meat industry is profiting off cruelty but not being balls enough to take a life and put it in your mouth.
For me, and probably most meat-eating people, it's not about "putting dogs above other animals" - it's about intelligence and the illusion of how close a certain animal is to man. Not alot of people would eat a person, but then we start to move downwards from people and see where we draw the line. Like I previously stated, there isn't alot of research that show cows have close enough "man-like" patterns of behavior or social constructs for us not to eat them.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bfeebd7cc3ba01562f739955ea4e460d-c)
It's like this picture that floated around a while ago.. If we go from left to right, it doesn't take alot to see that it goes from most to least personality and other man-like traits (with the exception of the rabbit in my opinion). This kinda makes me sound like a douche but can a chicken really get that sad? There isn't alot in their "personalities" to prove so or research to show it. It sort of seems like they act on instant emotion, so how far is that from a fly or a bee? You can't really say the same about dogs, their personalities seem more complex than some humans I know (kidding but kinda not really).
The difference here is recent studies show that pigs are actually really smart, so that's pretty fucked up. With that said, I might be wrong and there might be more research showing chickens to be smarter than we give them credit for but until then, that's where I draw the line I guess.
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imagine rowley in a full adidas/palace 3m tracksuit
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imagine rowley in a full adidas/palace 3m tracksuit
and bucket hat
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He's in the business of making low quality camping products isn't he? - Specifically - knives with plastic handles. But his customer base is still teenage skateboarders. Anyone who knows anything about hunting knives wouldn't be seen dead with one of his Fisherprice efforts. Someone showed me this one the other day:
https://civilware.com/collections/featured/products/copy-of-striker-folding-knife-br-green
Couldn't believe how terrible the quality was. A snip at $150.
Maybe it only applies to the original run of striker fixed blade knives but the blades were made of re purposed files that were used for horse shoes and the blade handle is made of canvas micarta which is a mixture of canvas, fiberglass, paper and carbon fiber sanded down to a nice finish. The blades are rock solid and perfect if you are a hunter. I have 2 of them, keep one in the door of my car and keep one in my backpack for various uses. Geoff is an avid hunter and guide for outdoor enthusiasts and hunters, much to slaps surprise, the world does not revolve around skateboarding, its only natural that geoff build a career around something else other than skateboarding as he gets older, products are only worth as much as people are willing to pay.
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You guys forget that he likes little furry animals?
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putting dogs above other animals is ethnocentric bullshit. you're just indoctrinated that way like hindus are indoctrinated to worship cows and ignore human suffering.
i can see not wanting to intentionally cause harm but like sleazy pointed out, ain't nobody's hands clean so nobody should high horse anyone else [not accusing gism of that].
from what i've read [i don't know how to scientifically experiment myself] the meat industry is destroying our quality of life, the environment, the rain forest and more so it's better to be veggie just based off that. you can prolly find a right wing, big meat scientist to debate that but whatever.
just like not everyone can forage veggies, it's not sustainable for everyone to hunt their own meat ergo the agriculture industry but shit is wild out of control. hunting is doing it the right way.
meat industry is profiting off cruelty but not being balls enough to take a life and put it in your mouth.
For me, and probably most meat-eating people, it's not about "putting dogs above other animals" - it's about intelligence and the illusion of how close a certain animal is to man. Not alot of people would eat a person, but then we start to move downwards from people and see where we draw the line. Like I previously stated, there isn't alot of research that show cows have close enough "man-like" patterns of behavior or social constructs for us not to eat them.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bfeebd7cc3ba01562f739955ea4e460d-c)
It's like this picture that floated around a while ago.. If we go from left to right, it doesn't take alot to see that it goes from most to least personality and other man-like traits (with the exception of the rabbit in my opinion). This kinda makes me sound like a douche but can a chicken really get that sad? There isn't alot in their "personalities" to prove so or research to show it. It sort of seems like they act on instant emotion, so how far is that from a fly or a bee? You can't really say the same about dogs, their personalities seem more complex than some humans I know (kidding but kinda not really).
The difference here is recent studies show that pigs are actually really smart, so that's pretty fucked up. With that said, I might be wrong and there might be more research showing chickens to be smarter than we give them credit for but until then, that's where I draw the line I guess.
this approach seems very biased, as you already mentioned with the example of pigs. not long ago, scientists thought only mammas could be what we call "intelligent" and nowadays we know that fucking crows and squids are more intelligent than a cat or a dog... science as it is, is biased. nobody would have thought that a bird could be more intelligent than some mammals, so research on that was biased towards this preassumption. and i guess thats kind of your deal as well. how do we know that these other animals arent as smart as we think?
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that and it's just cultural. 10 billion red chinese don't give a fuck about dog's personalities, they see steak.
and there's more asians than europeans so really, the world is one big dog eating, cow worshipping ball of mud.
^ [conflated a few asian culture there but you get it.]
apparently goats like it when we smile so they've prolly got personalities too [they're expensive to feed thoguh]. saying one creature is less than another is how people justify slavery and other crimes against other people.
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Yeah yeah your a hunter. But your also a skater. And clearly a Geoff Rowley fan. theres probably a picture of you on Geoffs investors meeting mood board somewhere.
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He's in the business of making low quality camping products isn't he? - Specifically - knives with plastic handles. But his customer base is still teenage skateboarders. Anyone who knows anything about hunting knives wouldn't be seen dead with one of his Fisherprice efforts. Someone showed me this one the other day:
https://civilware.com/collections/featured/products/copy-of-striker-folding-knife-br-green
Couldn't believe how terrible the quality was. A snip at $150.
Maybe it only applies to the original run of striker fixed blade knives but the blades were made of re purposed files that were used for horse shoes and the blade handle is made of canvas micarta which is a mixture of canvas, fiberglass, paper and carbon fiber sanded down to a nice finish. The blades are rock solid and perfect if you are a hunter. I have 2 of them, keep one in the door of my car and keep one in my backpack for various uses. Geoff is an avid hunter and guide for outdoor enthusiasts and hunters, much to slaps surprise, the world does not revolve around skateboarding, its only natural that geoff build a career around something else other than skateboarding as he gets older, products are only worth as much as people are willing to pay.
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putting dogs above other animals is ethnocentric bullshit. you're just indoctrinated that way like hindus are indoctrinated to worship cows and ignore human suffering.
i can see not wanting to intentionally cause harm but like sleazy pointed out, ain't nobody's hands clean so nobody should high horse anyone else [not accusing gism of that].
from what i've read [i don't know how to scientifically experiment myself] the meat industry is destroying our quality of life, the environment, the rain forest and more so it's better to be veggie just based off that. you can prolly find a right wing, big meat scientist to debate that but whatever.
just like not everyone can forage veggies, it's not sustainable for everyone to hunt their own meat ergo the agriculture industry but shit is wild out of control. hunting is doing it the right way.
meat industry is profiting off cruelty but not being balls enough to take a life and put it in your mouth.
For me, and probably most meat-eating people, it's not about "putting dogs above other animals" - it's about intelligence and the illusion of how close a certain animal is to man. Not alot of people would eat a person, but then we start to move downwards from people and see where we draw the line. Like I previously stated, there isn't alot of research that show cows have close enough "man-like" patterns of behavior or social constructs for us not to eat them.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-bfeebd7cc3ba01562f739955ea4e460d-c)
It's like this picture that floated around a while ago.. If we go from left to right, it doesn't take alot to see that it goes from most to least personality and other man-like traits (with the exception of the rabbit in my opinion). This kinda makes me sound like a douche but can a chicken really get that sad? There isn't alot in their "personalities" to prove so or research to show it. It sort of seems like they act on instant emotion, so how far is that from a fly or a bee? You can't really say the same about dogs, their personalities seem more complex than some humans I know (kidding but kinda not really).
The difference here is recent studies show that pigs are actually really smart, so that's pretty fucked up. With that said, I might be wrong and there might be more research showing chickens to be smarter than we give them credit for but until then, that's where I draw the line I guess.
this approach seems very biased, as you already mentioned with the example of pigs. not long ago, scientists thought only mammas could be what we call "intelligent" and nowadays we know that fucking crows and squids are more intelligent than a cat or a dog... science as it is, is biased. nobody would have thought that a bird could be more intelligent than some mammals, so research on that was biased towards this preassumption. and i guess thats kind of your deal as well. how do we know that these other animals arent as smart as we think?
I understand your point, but at the same time.. A pig for example will eat their brother or the farmer that feeds them every day and think nothing of it, and they're considered one of the most intelligent animals of all. The problem is that the intelligence is measured by ability to see patterns and logic, not by being able to feel remorse, love, compassion or any other traits that makes humans... human. Dogs, however, are capable of all these personal traits and all in various degrees, showing a broader spectrum of different personalities between them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that meat-eating people probably just don't want to eat anything close enough to themselves because the more human-like, the more barbaric it seems.
that and it's just cultural. 10 billion red chinese don't give a fuck about dog's personalities, they see steak.
and there's more asians than europeans so really, the world is one big dog eating, cow worshipping ball of mud.
^ [conflated a few asian culture there but you get it.]
apparently goats like it when we smile so they've prolly got personalities too [they're expensive to feed thoguh]. saying one creature is less than another is how people justify slavery and other crimes against other people.
That's what I'm saying, it's a matter of where you draw the line. Their line is drawn after dogs apparently, which is mad fucked up to me but drawing the line at cows is mad fucked up to someone else, so..
About the last sentence: that feels like a very odd way to put it, it's not really fair to compare one line of thought in such different scales. It's a little like saying having an orgasm in the bedroom is the reason public sex offenders exist or something.
Would you kill a fly - have you? Is the fly not a creature? Are you sure of it's level of intelligence or anything else really? Again, you have to draw the line somewhere and comparing meat-eating to slavery feels like quite a leap.
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imagine rowley in a full adidas/palace 3m tracksuit
In a tree stand
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everything we do as a society kills animals not just our food production and by participating on any level there is blood on your hands too. somewhere up the chain your reasoning will also be faulty unless you are literally living in the wilderness and sprinkling DDT on you to keep the insects from bitting.
Betaphenylethylalamine post shown an awareness, diplomacy and reasonable approach to the issue that is completely lacking in your response which is idealistic, impractical and kind of dickish.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that point, the difference here is that (and this is true in the case of humans too) intentionally killing something/someone vs. accidentally killing something are two totally different concepts/ actions.
Also, do not bring insects or appeals to futility into this debate; the definition of veganism has never stated anything about insects, nor does it state anywhere that there will ever be a way to 100% eliminate cruelty to sentient beings.
I don't mind that Betaphenylethylalamine hunts ttytt, I just said his justifications were poor at best. If you're going to use nature and "ancestors" as reason for an action, then I think you are being intellectually dishonest.
I still eat meat and have a hard time substituting it for plant-based food as I have alot of allergies (I have tried many times and haven't found a solution). However, I'd like to raise a few questions/points for someone who's well read on veganism as I'm not sure I would be vegan even if I could:
Allergies in your case would be a perfectly reasonable justification (unlike "ancestors").
What do you need to avoid though? You know there are soy/ nut free vegans yeah?
- Couldn't you say eating meat is the most natural thing in the world? Look how all of the animal kingdom that require everything meat has to offer feed themselves - they hunt and they eat meat. Avoiding meat makes for going out of your way to get everything the body needs just "to work" and research shows it's often not enough in which they have to turn to modern science and pills/shows to get vitamins etc. It's selfish to say, but we are on the top of the food chain and it all seems sort of natural - although I'm not saying that is what makes it right or okay.
Please avoid appeals to nature fallacies, every carnivore and their mum loves to use them and this is why this whole debate started. Just because something is "natural", does not make it right and/ or good (see someone mentioning polio in the vaccines thread; yes, it's natural as are lots of diseases, doesn't make it good or right though). Sitting on a computer isn't natural, owning a cell phone isn't natural but we still do these things regardless.
Animals eat meat so I should eat meat argument - well animals also do heaps of fucked up things that you WOULDN'T do so please don't use them as a moral compass. Animals also hunt out of necessity; it's not like they can just go to the super market and pick up a plethora of cruelty-free based options. This is also why I have no problem with eskimos hunting and eating animals/ wearing fur, they literally don't have any other options based on their geographical location.
But vitamins argument - Yes, I take b12 supplements, guess what? So do you in the form of your beef getting injected with b12 shots because it's no longer abundant in nature. 2/5 of the American population is also borderline b12 deficient BUT 2/5 of the US isn't vegan. #gofigure
Sup-ing vitamins in this day and age is pretty much unavoidable so let's not make it a strictly vegan issue.
- I know captivated animals suffer in various degrees, but say someone hunts like Betaphenylethylalamine - do animals really care? The only research I've found is that cows, for example, "may be able to feel shyness or fear". Would they be able to tell if their sibling got shot - would they feel bad about it like a human would? Most research I've found show that they probably do not, and that is why the "rape argument" isn't really valid. Most meat-eaters would agree that eating a dog is fucked as they have a deeper sense of emotion and are able to actually think deeper than instant emotions. The meat industry is a whole other point, and that is why I try to get my meat at the best places possible.
meat eaters on cognitive dissonance then no?
Go to a dairy farm and watch the young cows get separated from their mothers, hell just look up some footage of it. Animals communicate, love, exist as communities, crave acceptance, operate as families and do many other things that I don't think we can even fathom at this point in time. But even if they couldn't, does that mean you should inflict cruelty on them based on this fact? This rabbit hole will take you into the whole "name the trait" debate which is basically where you justify the ethics of an action to an animal because of X
X = level of intelligence
"Cows are stupid so it's okay to torture them and steal their children from them while they are still breastfeeding"
Yes, well mentally regular people are also not intelligent when compared to you, so are you going to string them up too now?
X = social contract/ level of emotional involvement
"Well, dogs are mans best friend and I personally have a dog that I love so I could never eat"
I'm from China so fuck your dog because a) I've never met it and b) Dog bacon is amazing
Also I have a pet pig that I have a strong connection too so you shouldn't eat him :o
X = different species/ biology
"Pigs and humans aren't even the same species so fuck them"
If gorillas came and started eating us tomorrow, personally I would just lie down and let them do so because you know, we're a different species n' shit and that totally justifies their behavior.
edit #643:
Would you kill a fly - have you? Is the fly not a creature? Are you sure of it's level of intelligence or anything else really?
what is it with you guys and bugs? Flys do not have a central nervous system/ cannot feel pain. If science proves me wrong, I'll rethink my stance on them.
Flies feel pain so I'm going to eat steak though is not a logical justification here. You're bordering on the whole "but plants have feelings" discussion which is absolutely a ridiculous argument to have.
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fucking hell, I'm the Gipper of animal rights threads ...
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I'm with GISM on this one. I'm not a vegan or even a vegetarian but I do eat mostly vegetarian food. I'm just not the person I would like to be so I do eat and wear animal based products. Anyway, his reasoning is solid on this one. The meat eaters arguments not really, like he has IMO proven quite well. I know he can be annoying with his vegan rants but that doesn't mean he's wrong. I thought his opinions were well justified here instead of being all out rants.
Also the environmental aspect of eating less meat is something everyone should take into account IMO even if you don't care about the suffering of animals outside of our own species. The environmental stress meat and dairy production put on the planet are enormous compared to producing suitable plant based foods. There are too many of us and at the population level we are at now eating meat as much as we do just isn't sustainable.
Also humans have killed so many species from earth just because we're the top predators and are too fucking good at it. Even if we can take advantage of something doesn't mean we should.
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I'm with GISM on this one. I'm not a vegan or even a vegetarian but I do eat mostly vegetarian food. I'm just not the person I would like to be so I do eat and wear animal based products. Anyway, his reasoning is solid on this one. The meat eaters arguments not really, like he has IMO proven quite well. I know he can be annoying with his vegan rants but that doesn't mean he's wrong. I thought his opinions were well justified here instead of being all out rants.
Also the environmental aspect of eating less meat is something everyone should take into account IMO even if you don't care about the suffering of animals outside of our own species. The environmental stress meat and dairy production put on the planet are enormous compared to producing suitable plant based foods. There are too many of us and at the population level we are at now eating meat as much as we do just isn't sustainable.
Also humans have killed so many species from earth just because we're the top predators and are too fucking good at it. Even if we can take advantage of something doesn't mean we should.
Cheers mate, I tried to not to get too emotional and honestly I try these days not to speak about this or rant on unless it's directly related to the topic at hand i.e. I won't talk about veganism in the Polar thread
Rowley is a pet-peeve of mine so you know I'm going to take digs at him anytime he comes up on here but yeah, I think the way he lives is probably better than the average consumer (supporter).
He just annoys me with his "I'm a conservationist" schtick while he poses in front of dead animals that he shot in the head. He's not even open to debate this days*, look at his insta, if he posts hunting pics he always says, "negative" comments will automatically get deleted and banned.
* then again, I doubt I'm even really open to debate with hunters either so I guess we're both just stuck in our own little echo-chambers?
Basically, I'm just tired of shitty excuses to justify one's actions; if Rowley just straight out came out and said, "I love the taste of flesh and shooting shit in the head is way more thrilling to me than going to vegan restaurants in HB with Ed and Deanna", I probably wouldn't even care...
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You guys forget that he likes little furry animals?
...likes his pussy
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i was just fucking waiting for this thread to turn vegan and sure enough it did. you guys go ahead and eat your little bean sprouts while stroking your baby dicks, ill be over here enjoying this ribeye while adding pounds to my donkey dick.
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It would be a strange fit, but I like Geoff Rowley and Palace so I would be cool with it. I don't think it'll ever happen.
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Apex predators should not have to justify their diets or debate the morality of their choices. If you want to be a better version of yourself that's on you. Killing flies and assigning human personality traits to other animals? You're making this too easy.
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Didn’t he say he was going to start his own board company like 3 years ago?
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Apex predators should not have to justify their diets or debate the morality of their choices. If you want to be a better version of yourself that's on you. Killing flies and assigning human personality traits to other animals? You're making this too easy.
I know vegans are a pet peeve of yours mate and that’s fine, we all got our beefs (*inserts pun*).
I’ve said all I really want to say about the topic but a) as humans we debate the morality of our (food) choices all the time - and even people in the non-vegan camp would and do argue that it’s “wrong” for Japanese to eat whales and dolphins and that the dog eating festival in China is disgusting.
And b) apex predator is a stretch at best:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/where-do-humans-really-rank-on-the-food-chain-180948053/
Even if we were truly apex though, the fact that you are “superior” to something or someone doesn’t mean you can just blindly kill and torture it without question/ justification ... unless of course you’re Hitler and we all know what happened to Jason Jesse.
Anyway mate, I don’t want to drag this on further because I’m the vegan Gipper and I respect you as poster so we’ll just have to agree to disagree here.
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Apex predators should not have to justify their diets or debate the morality of their choices. If you want to be a better version of yourself that's on you. Killing flies and assigning human personality traits to other animals? You're making this too easy.
I’ve said all I really want to say about the topic but a) as humans we debate the morality of our (food) choices all the time - and even people in the non-vegan camp would and do argue that it’s “wrong” for Japanese to eat whales and dolphins and that the dog eating festival in China is disgusting.
And b) apex predator is a stretch at best:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/where-do-humans-really-rank-on-the-food-chain-180948053/
Even if we were truly apex though, the fact that you are “superior” to something or someone doesn’t mean you can just blindly kill and torture it without question/ justification ... unless of course you’re Hitler and we all know what happened to Jason Jesse.
Anyway mate, I don’t want to drag this on further because I’m the vegan Gipper and I respect you as poster so we’ll just have to agree to disagree here.
Vegans are definitely not a pet peeve of mine. I think everyone should have the right to decide for themselves and I respect anyone that has taken enough time to reason why or why not to eat what they choose. I don't even care when they decide to broadcast their opinions and I'm open to discussion about it.
My point was that people feeling the need to justify it to anyone else but themselves and to assign a moral code to it is not necessary. Factory farming undoubtedly causes more suffering than a quick kill hunter. Ethical farming relieves some of that suffering. Industrial large scale plant farming has its own consequences and fall out.
I have enough money to choose to eat more "ethically" than other people and I do so. I'm also interested in hunting, fishing and foraging as well as reducing my environmental footprint.
If you read between the lines I was illustrating that some posters were making it way too easy for you to shoot down their morals and ethics. Killing insects vs killing a wild animal? That's some elementary ass argument. Believing or assigning human personality traits to certain animals is a human construct. A dog will eat it's dead master if locked in the house with their corpse for long enough no matter how much they loved each other. I'm actually supporting some of your views.
I get the apex predator ranking but if you think that the species that can kill every other spicies at will and via a drone strike from a comfy computer chair doesn't trump everything else that's a different thread.
You or anyone else that chooses a different path than me does not peeve me what so ever.
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I'll elaborate - when I held the knife, the handle didn't feel like solid plastic. It felt hollow.
I don't know much about knives but it looked like shit and it felt like shit in my hand.
He makes tat for Rowley fans who like camping.
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Specifically - knives with plastic handles.
G10 + titanium frame is going to make a knife feel very hollow. That handle design is garbage though. Like I said, the shit is definitely overpriced. And if you're spending that kind of money on a blade they should tell you what kind of steel you're working with (that seems to only be a problem on their more two more expensive folding knives). But the products definitely aren't bad quality.
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everything we do as a society kills animals not just our food production and by participating on any level there is blood on your hands too. somewhere up the chain your reasoning will also be faulty unless you are literally living in the wilderness and sprinkling DDT on you to keep the insects from bitting.
Betaphenylethylalamine post shown an awareness, diplomacy and reasonable approach to the issue that is completely lacking in your response which is idealistic, impractical and kind of dickish.
Also, do not bring insects or appeals to futility into this debate; the definition of veganism has never stated anything about insects, nor does it state anywhere that there will ever be a way to 100% eliminate cruelty to sentient beings.
I don't mind that Betaphenylethylalamine hunts ttytt, I just said his justifications were poor at best. If you're going to use nature and "ancestors" as reason for an action, then I think you are being intellectually dishonest.
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I still eat meat and have a hard time substituting it for plant-based food as I have alot of allergies (I have tried many times and haven't found a solution). However, I'd like to raise a few questions/points for someone who's well read on veganism as I'm not sure I would be vegan even if I could:
What do you need to avoid though? You know there are soy/ nut free vegans yeah?
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- Couldn't you say eating meat is the most natural thing in the world? Look how all of the animal kingdom that require everything meat has to offer feed themselves - they hunt and they eat meat. Avoiding meat makes for going out of your way to get everything the body needs just "to work" and research shows it's often not enough in which they have to turn to modern science and pills/shows to get vitamins etc. It's selfish to say, but we are on the top of the food chain and it all seems sort of natural - although I'm not saying that is what makes it right or okay.
Animals eat meat so I should eat meat argument - well animals also do heaps of fucked up things that you WOULDN'T do so please don't use them as a moral compass. Animals also hunt out of necessity; it's not like they can just go to the super market and pick up a plethora of cruelty-free based options. This is also why I have no problem with eskimos hunting and eating animals/ wearing fur, they literally don't have any other options based on their geographical location.
But vitamins argument - Yes, I take b12 supplements, guess what? So do you in the form of your beef getting injected with b12 shots because it's no longer abundant in nature. 2/5 of the American population is also borderline b12 deficient BUT 2/5 of the US isn't vegan. #gofigure
Sup-ing vitamins in this day and age is pretty much unavoidable so let's not make it a strictly vegan issue.
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- I know captivated animals suffer in various degrees, but say someone hunts like Betaphenylethylalamine - do animals really care? The only research I've found is that cows, for example, "may be able to feel shyness or fear". Would they be able to tell if their sibling got shot - would they feel bad about it like a human would? Most research I've found show that they probably do not, and that is why the "rape argument" isn't really valid. Most meat-eaters would agree that eating a dog is fucked as they have a deeper sense of emotion and are able to actually think deeper than instant emotions. The meat industry is a whole other point, and that is why I try to get my meat at the best places possible.
Go to a dairy farm and watch the young cows get separated from their mothers, hell just look up some footage of it. Animals communicate, love, exist as communities, crave acceptance, operate as families and do many other things that I don't think we can even fathom at this point in time. But even if they couldn't, does that mean you should inflict cruelty on them based on this fact? This rabbit hole will take you into the whole "name the trait" debate which is basically where you justify the ethics of an action to an animal because of X
X = level of intelligence
"Cows are stupid so it's okay to torture them and steal their children from them while they are still breastfeeding"
Yes, well mentally regular people are also not intelligent when compared to you, so are you going to string them up too now?
X = social contract/ level of emotional involvement
"Well, dogs are mans best friend and I personally have a dog that I love so I could never eat"
I'm from China so fuck your dog because a) I've never met it and b) Dog bacon is amazing
Also I have a pet pig that I have a strong connection too so you shouldn't eat him :o
X = different species/ biology
"Pigs and humans aren't even the same species so fuck them"
If gorillas came and started eating us tomorrow, personally I would just lie down and let them do so because you know, we're a different species n' shit and that totally justifies their behavior.
edit #643:
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Would you kill a fly - have you? Is the fly not a creature? Are you sure of it's level of intelligence or anything else really?
Flies feel pain so I'm going to eat steak though is not a logical justification here. You're bordering on the whole "but plants have feelings" discussion which is absolutely a ridiculous argument to have.
I don't really have energy for a long response so I'll be somewhat quick, but I just wanted to thank you for a good post with alot of valid points.
About the allergy, I know there are nut and soy free vegan alternatives but it isn't quite easy as that. I have a super strict diet and mainly have to avoid certain sugars, but alot of the times I have to test a bunch of stuff and see what works. I feel like I've tried every seed available but nothing works. I tried vegan alternatives for 8 months straight but I ended up just living on potatoes and carrots (with occasional pill-eating, but they also made me feel like shit) which led to a 10 day streak of b12 shots in the asscheek every morning at the hospital, I got really fucked up vitamin-wise.
However, I'm not completely sure I'd be 100% vegan even if I could (although I would certainly eat less meat). I know justifying meat-eating with saying that cows are stupid isn't a great reason, but it's the same as the bug one and I guess I draw my line after the cows... for now. If the excuse for killing different kinds of bugs are just that they can't feel pain, what about instant death with no suffering - would that be considered ok for a cow or another bigger animal? As iiiin.. hunting.
(This is purely for discussion purposes and not my personal opinion)
If a moose's family won't miss him when he gets painlessly shot and then eaten - what difference does it make from a completely objective standpoint? Is it just a matter of morals?
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Didn’t he say he was going to start his own board company like 3 years ago?
To get back on topic, read the caption:
(http://i64.tinypic.com/20gxo0.png)
I guess he's not retiring?
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Vegans are definitely not a pet peeve of mine. I think everyone should have the right to decide for themselves and I respect anyone that has taken enough time to reason why or why not to eat what they choose. I don't even care when they decide to broadcast their opinions and I'm open to discussion about it.
My point was that people feeling the need to justify it to anyone else but themselves and to assign a moral code to it is not necessary. Factory farming undoubtedly causes more suffering than a quick kill hunter. Ethical farming relieves some of that suffering. Industrial large scale plant farming has its own consequences and fall out.
I have enough money to choose to eat more "ethically" than other people and I do so. I'm also interested in hunting, fishing and foraging as well as reducing my environmental footprint.
ok, all good, my bad
*internet high five to one of my fav Aussie posters on here*
but if you think that the species that can kill every other spicies at will and via a drone strike from a comfy computer chair doesn't trump everything else that's a different thread.
any idea where I can order one of these drone strikes? I'm thinking of taking out Geoff to preserve the mountain lion populations stateside ;D
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I don't really have energy for a long response so I'll be somewhat quick, but I just wanted to thank you for a good post with alot of valid points.
About the allergy, I know there are nut and soy free vegan alternatives but it isn't quite easy as that. I have a super strict diet and mainly have to avoid certain sugars, but alot of the times I have to test a bunch of stuff and see what works. I feel like I've tried every seed available but nothing works. I tried vegan alternatives for 8 months straight but I ended up just living on potatoes and carrots (with occasional pill-eating, but they also made me feel like shit) which led to a 10 day streak of b12 shots in the asscheek every morning at the hospital, I got really fucked up vitamin-wise.
However, I'm not completely sure I'd be 100% vegan even if I could (although I would certainly eat less meat). I know justifying meat-eating with saying that cows are stupid isn't a great reason, but it's the same as the bug one and I guess I draw my line after the cows... for now. If the excuse for killing different kinds of bugs are just that they can't feel pain, what about instant death with no suffering - would that be considered ok for a cow or another bigger animal? As iiiin.. hunting.
(This is purely for discussion purposes and not my personal opinion)
If a moose's family won't miss him when he gets painlessly shot and then eaten - what difference does it make from a completely objective standpoint? Is it just a matter of morals?
All good, I realize my response was a huge fucking wall of text and probably not the most easy one to respond to.
okay, your experience sounds like a fucked up one and while I harp on about animals, defs put your own health above them. If I had a condition where I absolutely had to consume animal products to survive, I'd fuck up a cow real quick!
insta death = no suffering - sure, I had this debate with Moe on hear way back and he said, "what's better: straight bolt gun to the head vs. breaking a cows legs and then boiling it alive?" and yeah, in that situation of course you want to cause as little "suffering" as possible which was also highlighted in Soda Jerk's post; he's in a situation where has has enough $$$ to chose the more ethical options. The majority of meat and dairy we see on shelves though doesn't come from that world and I think both you and I know that. The suffering debate comes up with Halal too and they justify it by saying "well we use a big fuck off sharp knife to to sever the main arteries nice and quick so there's no pain/ suffering". Yes ... but do know what would cause even less pain? NOT actually killing the animal in the first place.
I guess this comes to individual's will to live, and while I'm not sure if science has proven it yet, I'm guessing most living/ sentient creatures possess this trait? Like you're not just going to let some murder you as long as they promise to make and quick and "ethical". Obviously, you'd like a pain-free death, but before that not dying would obviously be the most desired outcome in that situation no?
I guess that links into your moose hypthotecial too. Okay, say science can prove that Moose's family won't miss him and you give him the cleanest death possible, then what's the objective problem right? Sure, from certain standpoints you could justify it (certainly not from the moose's standpoint though) but then you get into a grey area of who decides when it is/ isn't okay to take the life of another sentient being.
I don't want to get too out there with the whole name the trait thing either, but usually it's a test of whether that action could be justified in the case of humans too. So say some aliens (okay, this is out there) fly down to earth and their scientists deduce that you have no family and that if they kill you quickly and painlessly you won't suffer anyway. Would you accept their justification in this case? If you say no and many people would, that's fine but it shows that there is a logical inconsistency between your actions and your way of thinking.
Okay, I'm talking about aliens and shit now so I think I better sign off...
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From a purely skating point of view, it will be interesting to see where Geoff ends up; he was an integral part of Flip ever since they moved to the US and any other company that was going to pounce on him probably should have done so by now. Historically, I guess him and Ed would make sense but Ed only gave him a guest board so idk
Who else would want him? FA? I couldn't see him and Dill getting on for some reason.
Also, whatever happened to the board company he was going to start?
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I am a big fan of bacon sandwiches
I have no opinion on Geoff Rowley being on Palace