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Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 08:58:37 AM

Title: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 08:58:37 AM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..

Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..

Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly
Title: Re: Let’s be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on August 31, 2018, 09:05:12 AM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skating’s image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90’s.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Style Police on August 31, 2018, 09:33:30 AM
Money Talks. Zion is far from the worst.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: GAY on August 31, 2018, 09:41:03 AM
I heard he's a Zionist.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Monkey_Mcpott on August 31, 2018, 09:43:41 AM
I heard he's a Zionist.

I think youíre Wright.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DCLOVE on August 31, 2018, 09:44:13 AM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..

Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..

Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly

Taking the money isnít bad. I just find it obvious Zion was groomed to be a ď greatĒ skateboarder. Iím all about taking the money. Thereís just something disengenous about Zion and his come up to me. Also his cheeks upset me. But thanks for making a thread about my opinions .
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: yadiggg on August 31, 2018, 09:46:26 AM
Nike is the best company in terms of respecting workers ... It's been said enough times, they were not ok with this in 2005 maybe but now they are 100% good on this.

Seeing the quality of the shoes made by lakai,emerica,huf,supra,vans ( wearout super fast, lack of glue ) ... I guess they actually work with the cheap factories, which are using child labor.

You can downvote how much you want but you know it's the reality, people are skating nikes because of
1/ quality 2/ good marketing (team,videos etc)

Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 09:53:18 AM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skatingís image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90ís.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
thatís a fair comment about sweatshops .. I know Nike attempt at skating choad era was a joke but that was later.. Iím talking late 80ís early 90ís when people were already skating in them
Why the fuck would of someone like jovontae turner who was already apparently on 3 different teams
Without the other sponsors knowing take shoes money from Nike.
Do u think if puma had said to rick Howard we see you like skateboarding in our puma baskets hereís a big cheque and all the shoes clothes for you and your freinds family
Any maybe you can design your own puma one day.. ummm no thanks Iím waiting for two pairs of Ertnies a month and no money.. no thanks I donít want to get paid so I can skate all day and not have to worry about bills.

Another way of looking at it and I might be unpopular for saying this
I buy Nike outside of skateboarding always have always will.

If skaters donít buy Nike . Nike loses interest in skateboarding. Nike stops paying skateboarders
Smaller brands canít afford to pay all the skaters. Skaters get jobs. Less skating is done.
Skateboarding suffers..
 
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: The Dope on August 31, 2018, 10:03:50 AM
Imagine if Nike did what they did to hockey, to skateboarding. They bought Canstar in 1995 which was the parent company of Bauer hockey and just pretended it was still Bauer hockey until 2005 they got cocky and renamed it "Nike Bauer"..later they sold it in 2008 and it went back to Bauer Hockey.

That would be like if Nike bought Soletech? What would you guys say about that? The difference is Nike already has shoes for days and doesn't need to buy anyone out because they can just bully everyone out of competition.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ManMelt on August 31, 2018, 10:03:58 AM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..

Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..

Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly

Taking the money isnít bad. I just find it obvious Zion was groomed to be a ď greatĒ skateboarder. Iím all about taking the money. Thereís just something disengenous about Zion and his come up to me. Also his cheeks upset me. But thanks for making a thread about my opinions .

Iím not sure what being ďgroomedĒ to be a great skateboarder means? And how was his rise disengenous? To me it just seems like he got progressed quickly and has a ton of natural ability.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: gaseous clay on August 31, 2018, 10:08:54 AM
Skateboarding existed without shoes made specifically for skateboarding for a very long time, and if all the shoe companies go out of business, people will still skate.

Is buying shoes from a company that exploits skaters that you don't know better than buying shoes from a company that exploits factory workers you don't know? BTW, both kinds of companies exploit the factory worker. Free markets are no place for morality.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Tedd on August 31, 2018, 10:12:07 AM
Nike is the best company in terms of respecting workers ... It's been said enough times, they were not ok with this in 2005 maybe but now they are 100% good on this.

Seeing the quality of the shoes made by lakai,emerica,huf,supra,vans ( wearout super fast, lack of glue ) ... I guess they actually work with the cheap factories, which are using child labor.

You can downvote how much you want but you know it's the reality, people are skating nikes because of
1/ quality 2/ good marketing (team,videos etc)

Nahhhh Vans is definitely making shoes on par with sport brand quality these days

Even some g6 emericas Iíve skated have been just as good as Vans and sport brand vulcs

Last pair of shoes that were done before I got a hole in the sole were some Nikeís actually. Fauxing tape came unglued from the sole

Not to say that Nike, Adidas, NB arenít making some great stuff. They are, but the quality isnít really any better than Vans, or some of the better core shoes.

Fools just be getting tricked by the branding. Like you see Nike and you instantly assume quality, but you can find core shoes that are just as good
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 10:17:20 AM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..

Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..

Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly

Taking the money isnít bad. I just find it obvious Zion was groomed to be a ď greatĒ skateboarder. Iím all about taking the money. Thereís just something disengenous about Zion and his come up to me. Also his cheeks upset me. But thanks for making a thread about my opinions .

Oops um anyway if what Zion is being groomed to be good at skateboarding
Whatever that quite means I assume they did a good job coz he sure is good at skateboarding

Anyway sorry to turn your opinion into a thread it just made me think

That why some people so salty about Nike it just seems so fitting to me
I always loved Nike sneakers and skateboarding ..they pay sooooooooo many skateboarders
And make it possible to achieve so much awesome skateboarding.. I donít know I kinda like it
Although as fast as the design of majority of  skate shoes both core and corporate is pretty bad to be fair.. Iíd love to give it a crack,, I donít think I could possibly dissapointment given the opportunity I would put my money where my mouth is on that and I am not a over confident person by any means but I do look at the majority of skate shoes and smh
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Cuban_Lynx on August 31, 2018, 10:25:08 AM
Just saw Neenís Whole Foods commercial. Getting that Bezos flow.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 10:27:26 AM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..

Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..

Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly

because corporate brands are fair weather friends. the hypothetical situation at emb you described never happened because there wasnít enough profit to be made off skateboarding at the time. they didnít care enough to keep skateboarding alive when it was almost dead but theyíll gladly parasitize it when itís fat.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Billy Bitchcakes on August 31, 2018, 10:34:09 AM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skatingís image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90ís.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
thatís a fair comment about sweatshops .. I know Nike attempt at skating choad era was a joke but that was later.. Iím talking late 80ís early 90ís when people were already skating in them
Why the fuck would of someone like jovontae turner who was already apparently on 3 different teams
Without the other sponsors knowing take shoes money from Nike.
Do u think if puma had said to rick Howard we see you like skateboarding in our puma baskets hereís a big cheque and all the shoes clothes for you and your freinds family
Any maybe you can design your own puma one day.. ummm no thanks Iím waiting for two pairs of Ertnies a month and no money.. no thanks I donít want to get paid so I can skate all day and not have to worry about bills.

Another way of looking at it and I might be unpopular for saying this
I buy Nike outside of skateboarding always have always will.

If skaters donít buy Nike . Nike loses interest in skateboarding. Nike stops paying skateboarders
Smaller brands canít afford to pay all the skaters. Skaters get jobs. Less skating is done.
Skateboarding suffers..

smaller brands can't afford to pay skaters because everyone is buying nikes over their shoes. nike loses interest in skating = smaller brands aren't smaller anymore = can afford to pay skaters. plenty people were making bank off shoes before nike came along
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: emchen on August 31, 2018, 10:36:32 AM
I think another aspect to Nike hate is that they manufactured an artificial authenticity in skateboarding, and skateboarding largely fell for it.

Think about all the underrated and underappreciated skaters that work for years to build a scene. Then imagine some wealthy person newly interested in skating swoops in and throws money at some skaters they found out about. They make a fucking movie starring those ppl using dad's studio connections, then steal the spotlight as a "skater" or "skate rat". How would you, the skater who's been pushing the city for years, feel?

Basically what I'm trying to say is that Lil' Wayne is more core than Jaden Smith.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: givecigstosurfgroms on August 31, 2018, 10:42:44 AM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..

Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..

Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly

Taking the money isnít bad. I just find it obvious Zion was groomed to be a ď greatĒ skateboarder. Iím all about taking the money. Thereís just something disengenous about Zion and his come up to me. Also his cheeks upset me. But thanks for making a thread about my opinions .
   I guess it would be  easy for someone to pick what your saying apart but, really -I think your basically right.   Skateboarding is an art and the Zion dude gets no rewatches from me.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: gaseous clay on August 31, 2018, 11:02:21 AM
Quote
smaller brands can't afford to pay skaters because everyone is buying nikes over their shoes. nike loses interest in skating = smaller brands aren't smaller anymore = can afford to pay skaters. plenty people were making bank off shoes before nike came along
Vans had a monopoly on "made for skateboarding" shoes for decades and squandered it. They also notoriously dropped people when they got hurt in ways that would require significant recovery time. Instead, they put all that money in their pocket.

Because Vans didn't innovate, people wore court shoes made by sporting goods companies Ė see all the old photos of pros wearing Jordan 1s, Natas' Converse Dr. J's, Mike V's Adidas Patrick Ewings, etc. Eventually other skate brands like Vision Street Wear and Etnies came into existence and proved there was an unserved market.

(for clarification, I'm an old who is genuinely asking)

Which "core" shoe brands are independently owned these days? Not Vans (DVF Outdoors), not Lakai (Altamont Capital), not Supra (K-Swiss), Straye? Filament? Globe?
Which independent, skater-owned "core" shoes do you wear?

Diane Von Furstenburg is definitely not interested in taking a loss in order to be around when the skateboarding fad dies again, I know that much for sure.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: The Dope on August 31, 2018, 01:44:00 PM

smaller brands can't afford to pay skaters because everyone is buying nikes over their shoes. nike loses interest in skating = smaller brands aren't smaller anymore = can afford to pay skaters. plenty people were making bank off shoes before nike came along

Vans had a monopoly on "made for skateboarding" shoes for decades and squandered it. They also notoriously dropped people when they got hurt in ways that would require significant recovery time. Instead, they put all that money in their pocket.

Because Vans didn't innovate, people wore court shoes made by sporting goods companies Ė see all the old photos of pros wearing Jordan 1s, Natas' Converse Dr. J's, Mike V's Adidas Patrick Ewings, etc. Eventually other skate brands like Vision Street Wear and Etnies came into existence and proved there was an unserved market.

(for clarification, I'm an old who is genuinely asking)

Which "core" shoe brands are independently owned these days? Not Vans (DVF Outdoors), not Lakai (Altamont Capital), not Supra (K-Swiss), Straye? Filament? Globe?
Which independent, skater-owned "core" shoes do you wear?

Diane Von Furstenburg is definitely not interested in taking a loss in order to be around when the skateboarding fad dies again, I know that much for sure.

Sole Tech?? aka Etnies, eS, Emerica? I love my accel slims, even chris cole is wearing them now.

https://www.soletechnology.com/Pages/company-about-timeline.aspx
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: The Dope on August 31, 2018, 01:50:15 PM

smaller brands can't afford to pay skaters because everyone is buying nikes over their shoes. nike loses interest in skating = smaller brands aren't smaller anymore = can afford to pay skaters. plenty people were making bank off shoes before nike came along

Vans had a monopoly on "made for skateboarding" shoes for decades and squandered it. They also notoriously dropped people when they got hurt in ways that would require significant recovery time. Instead, they put all that money in their pocket.

Because Vans didn't innovate, people wore court shoes made by sporting goods companies Ė see all the old photos of pros wearing Jordan 1s, Natas' Converse Dr. J's, Mike V's Adidas Patrick Ewings, etc. Eventually other skate brands like Vision Street Wear and Etnies came into existence and proved there was an unserved market.

(for clarification, I'm an old who is genuinely asking)

Which "core" shoe brands are independently owned these days? Not Vans (DVF Outdoors), not Lakai (Altamont Capital), not Supra (K-Swiss), Straye? Filament? Globe?
Which independent, skater-owned "core" shoes do you wear?

Diane Von Furstenburg is definitely not interested in taking a loss in order to be around when the skateboarding fad dies again, I know that much for sure.

Sole Tech?? aka Etnies, eS, Emerica? I love my accel slims, even chris cole is wearing them now.

https://www.soletechnology.com/Pages/company-about-timeline.aspx

Quote from the link.

1996
Unsure of how his etnies America licensing agreement will be affected, Pierre launches Emerica, short for etnies America. All etnies shoes sold in Fall 1995 are shipped as Emerica shoes in Spring 1996.

Emerica is recognized as a more raw, simple and straight-ahead skate shoe brand than etnies.

Rautureau Apple puts the etnies brand up for sale. Nike, among others, expresses interest, but Pierre gains the full rights.

The etnies Surf team is launched.

Pierre creates Sole Technology, Inc. to be the parent company of the etnies, ťS, Emerica and ThirtyTwo brands.

Sole Technology is named Rookie Manufacturer of the Year by Action Sports Retailer magazine.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: FROTHY on August 31, 2018, 01:55:10 PM
Fuck Steve Berra
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: IHOP on August 31, 2018, 01:55:48 PM
Skateboarding existed without shoes made specifically for skateboarding for a very long time, and if all the shoe companies go out of business, people will still skate.

Is buying shoes from a company that exploits skaters that you don't know better than buying shoes from a company that exploits factory workers you don't know? BTW, both kinds of companies exploit the factory worker. Free markets are no place for morality.

I would almost argue core shoe companies exploit a skater more, low pay and no real benefits or compensation other than "keeping it core" or for the love.  when nike exploits you they pay you enough to put some money in the bank not just scrape by.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: botefdunn on August 31, 2018, 01:57:14 PM
"Let's be honest"

Translation:

"Here's a highly contested opinion that i'd like to present as truth"

Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: IHOP on August 31, 2018, 01:59:07 PM
Just saw Neenís Whole Foods commercial. Getting that Bezos flow.

How did neen become the sober/health food guy in skating when theres reynolds and kenny anderson and countless other outspoken healthy lifestyle skateboarders.  Neen never interested me and his new schtick interests me even less.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: botefdunn on August 31, 2018, 02:04:12 PM
Just saw Neenís Whole Foods commercial. Getting that Bezos flow.

How did neen become the sober/health food guy in skating when theres reynolds and kenny anderson and countless other outspoken healthy lifestyle skateboarders.  Neen never interested me and his new schtick interests me even less.

Spenny's probably my pick for that title, mostly because he smokes.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: The Dope on August 31, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
Just saw Neenís Whole Foods commercial. Getting that Bezos flow.

How did neen become the sober/health food guy in skating when theres reynolds and kenny anderson and countless other outspoken healthy lifestyle skateboarders.  Neen never interested me and his new schtick interests me even less.

Marketing 101, Neen is easy as hell to market plain and simple
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: franc on August 31, 2018, 02:23:50 PM
Nike's marketing is terrible, you can tell it's thought by people who have never skated.
Remember the ad that went like Alex Olson skates every damn day, then a week after it came out dude said in an interview that he hadn't skated in 6 or 7 months (after filming for Fully Flared, right when he got on the swoosh)? Haha.
I started skating because skateboarding was not football or hockey or tennis or anything like that and they're trying to make it like that. Skate when you want to go for a skate, on a curb, in a skatepark, anywhere, how you want to, not when it's training time with your coach and your team. Kids using that silly Skate Every Damn Day hashtag on every single Insta post... I find it kinda stupid. They fall for the corniest, most unreal shit and don't even think about it. Oh well.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: MexicanSpaniard on August 31, 2018, 02:24:42 PM
I don't like the swossh logo because it's old and boring and on fucking everything, I'm sick of looking at it and I don't speak Grecian so the word itself bugs me
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cloudy on August 31, 2018, 02:31:12 PM
Nike's marketing is terrible, you can tell it's thought by people who have never skated.

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g241/cloudy9007/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/cloudy9007/media/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: MexicanSpaniard on August 31, 2018, 02:33:13 PM
Nike's marketing is terrible, you can tell it's thought by people who have never skated.

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g241/cloudy9007/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/cloudy9007/media/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg.html)


it says previously nike so of
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: gaseous clay on August 31, 2018, 02:34:07 PM
Skateboarding existed without shoes made specifically for skateboarding for a very long time, and if all the shoe companies go out of business, people will still skate.

Is buying shoes from a company that exploits skaters that you don't know better than buying shoes from a company that exploits factory workers you don't know? BTW, both kinds of companies exploit the factory worker. Free markets are no place for morality.

I would almost argue core shoe companies exploit a skater more, low pay and no real benefits or compensation other than "keeping it core" or for the love.  when nike exploits you they pay you enough to put some money in the bank not just scrape by.
Exactly my point.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: shannamal on August 31, 2018, 02:38:03 PM
Nike's marketing is terrible, you can tell it's thought by people who have never skated.

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g241/cloudy9007/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/cloudy9007/media/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg.html)


it says previously nike so of

it also says currently nike.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: MexicanSpaniard on August 31, 2018, 02:41:06 PM
Nike's marketing is terrible, you can tell it's thought by people who have never skated.

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g241/cloudy9007/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/cloudy9007/media/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg.html)


it says previously nike so of

it also says currently nike.


well which is it
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: lampshade on August 31, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
Just saw Neenís Whole Foods commercial. Getting that Bezos flow.

How did neen become the sober/health food guy in skating when theres reynolds and kenny anderson and countless other outspoken healthy lifestyle skateboarders.  Neen never interested me and his new schtick interests me even less.

They had a biggest heelflip contest for the title of "Sober/health food guy in skating."
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: jakeumms on August 31, 2018, 03:05:47 PM
Just saw Neenís Whole Foods commercial. Getting that Bezos flow.

How did neen become the sober/health food guy in skating when theres reynolds and kenny anderson and countless other outspoken healthy lifestyle skateboarders.  Neen never interested me and his new schtick interests me even less.

They had a biggest heelflip contest for the title of "Sober/health food guy in skating."

So Neen obviously won that.

In reality, he put that shit out there and used his social media presence to arrange bigger and bigger endorsement deals. Dude has a youtube channel about eating well by making your own food along with other general health and nutritional information. Also, he has mostly avoided the nutritional BS that a lot of his YT food and fitness competitors peddle on the regular. That takes initiative, follow through and due diligence and helps make him someone who has a take people respect. That's influence that corporations wanna capitalize on.

On another note, Hey Rattray...put the goddam trick on the ads please. I'm tired of guessing what the skaters you guys are featuring might be doing. "Well I mean I guess it kinds looks like a kickflip?"
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Pigeon on August 31, 2018, 03:13:59 PM
Just saw Neenís Whole Foods commercial. Getting that Bezos flow.

How did neen become the sober/health food guy in skating when theres reynolds and kenny anderson and countless other outspoken healthy lifestyle skateboarders.  Neen never interested me and his new schtick interests me even less.

Marketing 101, Neen is easy as hell to market plain and simple
His dreads make him look like he prefers organic produce.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: gollum mcjinglemeballs on August 31, 2018, 03:18:32 PM
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Disco234 on August 31, 2018, 03:25:16 PM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..

Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..

Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly


Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on August 31, 2018, 05:28:52 PM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skatingís image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90ís.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
thatís a fair comment about sweatshops .. I know Nike attempt at skating choad era was a joke but that was later.. Iím talking late 80ís early 90ís when people were already skating in them
Why the fuck would of someone like jovontae turner who was already apparently on 3 different teams
Without the other sponsors knowing take shoes money from Nike.
Do u think if puma had said to rick Howard we see you like skateboarding in our puma baskets hereís a big cheque and all the shoes clothes for you and your freinds family
Any maybe you can design your own puma one day.. ummm no thanks Iím waiting for two pairs of Ertnies a month and no money.. no thanks I donít want to get paid so I can skate all day and not have to worry about bills.

Another way of looking at it and I might be unpopular for saying this
I buy Nike outside of skateboarding always have always will.

If skaters donít buy Nike . Nike loses interest in skateboarding. Nike stops paying skateboarders
Smaller brands canít afford to pay all the skaters. Skaters get jobs. Less skating is done.
Skateboarding suffers..

smaller brands can't afford to pay skaters because everyone is buying nikes over their shoes. nike loses interest in skating = smaller brands aren't smaller anymore = can afford to pay skaters. plenty people were making bank off shoes before nike came along

From what I understand, this is what happened when Nike tried to break into surfing. All of a sudden they were paying out what others couldnít, ideas of what a paycheck should be changed, companies downsized, and then after fucking it up Nike pulled the plug and left.

Nike also pulled out of snowboarding when it wasnít profitable Ďenoughí so donít kid yourselves that Nike gives a shit about anything other than exploiting our scene.

As for the ĎNike treats itís workers greatí comment, they still use Bangladesh, which 1- is the bottom of the fucking barrel as far as workers rights are concerned, and 2- I donít know of any other skate shoe companies over there.

As a bare minimum I make sure none of my stuff is made there, I donít know about every company, but I canít think of anywhere else. Non-skate Vans maybe?
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: tobal on August 31, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
I think Nike is here to stay.
 And this :
ę For those who want to knock Nike, skateboarding had 30 years to figure out how to treat these dudes like professionals. But we didnít do it. So you canít be mad at a brand that comes in with an elevated sense of how professional skateboarders should be treated. Ľ Kelly Bird.
Title: Re: Let’s be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on August 31, 2018, 05:58:56 PM
To which I say bullshit. He is comparing sports with massive, massive fan bases that can support over-inflated salaries.

Skateboarding was traditionally like 3rd tier baseball leagues, and had probably similar incomes.

And to make skateboarding palatable for the masses, you had to create circus events and street league.

You could say corporate influence has allowed a few select skaters to do well, but at the expense of the culture of expression. The corporations will dictate what you can and can’t express.

Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: shannamal on August 31, 2018, 06:07:11 PM
Nike's marketing is terrible, you can tell it's thought by people who have never skated.

(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g241/cloudy9007/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg) (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/cloudy9007/media/rattray%201_zpsm89erlmg.jpg.html)


it says previously nike so of

it also says currently nike.


well which is it

I'm going to bet he's at Nike still. When I moved roles within my company, my LinkedIn did the same thing.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Ronald Wilson Reagan on August 31, 2018, 06:07:58 PM
Cucktard is fucking killing it in this thread
I think Nike is here to stay.
 And this :
ę For those who want to knock Nike, skateboarding had 30 years to figure out how to treat these dudes like professionals. But we didnít do it. So you canít be mad at a brand that comes in with an elevated sense of how professional skateboarders should be treated. Ľ Kelly Bird.
Then all the pros cry when the company that knows how ďto treat these dudes like professionalsĒ ditches a pro for his Nazi connections. Go corporate, live by their rules. Unless youíre Daryl Angel.

Also, they may not pay the same today, but Iím pretty sure guys like Muska, Koston, and plenty of others did pretty damned well on their independent shoe deals.

And I get the Zion hate, but Iím coming around on him. It takes much more than just a trainer to be able to do shit like perfect ollie 540ís on tiny quarterpipes. He obviously loses points for the red bull hat
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: bo bice on August 31, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
I think Nike is here to stay.
 And this :
ę For those who want to knock Nike, skateboarding had 30 years to figure out how to treat these dudes like professionals. But we didnít do it. So you canít be mad at a brand that comes in with an elevated sense of how professional skateboarders should be treated. a corporate budget that literally dwarfs all other skate shoe companies combinedĽ Kelly
Bird.

Yeah cuz Rickk and Mike are keepin the millions to themselves
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: botefdunn on August 31, 2018, 06:25:22 PM
Skateboarding existed without shoes made specifically for skateboarding for a very long time, and if all the shoe companies go out of business, people will still skate.

Is buying shoes from a company that exploits skaters that you don't know better than buying shoes from a company that exploits factory workers you don't know? BTW, both kinds of companies exploit the factory worker. Free markets are no place for morality.

Interesting.
So Nike having so completely and successfully embraced free market values is thereby deeply immoral, and it might be assumed that smaller, less economically successful companies are less successfully immoral.
That's what you meant, right?
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on August 31, 2018, 06:31:15 PM
Also, Kelly Bird is full of shit.
Baseball had over a fucking century and a half AT MINIMUM to get to the point it had an organization and professional teams.

Saying skateboarding only had 30, and thatís not fast enough to be as big is definitely corporate American thinking.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Surf-goth on August 31, 2018, 06:31:55 PM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..




Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..




Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly


"Not of" . what the fuck is that? Is that some sort of meme or do people actually think it's that instead of the contraction 've?
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 06:40:37 PM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skatingís image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90ís.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
Every shoe sold for skateboarding is working with some shady shit overseas. The only company in skateboarding that actually makes a product in the United States is New Balance, who to the best of my knowledge do not make their state line here. Do you honestly think Sole Tech and Lakai work with places that have better reputations than the Nike factories and can produce a cheaper product?

Nike due to what happened to their reputation due to sweatshops actually became much more stringent on who they did business with.

Look, I'm fine with people saying they don't like the idea of shareholders and people like Phil Knight getting rich off of buying NikeSB product. But, don't try to frame it as a morality issue regarding the treatment of third world workers. Hell, fucking Crailtap abandoned a using a company like PS Stix to make cheaper boards, and I'm supposed to trust what they do with Lakai? Dwindle under Globe sent their production to China too.

You want to bitch about morality in using outsource Labor, go buy a pair of these New Balances you think are skatable.

https://www.newbalance.com/made-in-the-usa/

Title: Re: Let’s be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on August 31, 2018, 06:57:51 PM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skating’s image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90’s.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
Every shoe sold for skateboarding is working with some shady shit overseas. The only company in skateboarding that actually makes a product in the United States is New Balance, who to the best of my knowledge do not make their state line here. Do you honestly think Sole Tech and Lakai work with places that have better reputations than the Nike factories and can produce a cheaper product?

Nike due to what happened to their reputation due to sweatshops actually became much more stringent on who they did business with.

Look, I'm fine with people saying they don't like the idea of shareholders and people like Phil Knight getting rich off of buying NikeSB product. But, don't try to frame it as a morality issue regarding the treatment of third world workers. Hell, fucking Crailtap abandoned a using a company like PS Stix to make cheaper boards, and I'm supposed to trust what they do with Lakai? Dwindle under Globe sent their production to China too.

You want to bitch about morality in using outsource Labor, go buy a pair of these New Balances you think are skatable.

https://www.newbalance.com/made-in-the-usa/

If an ethical skate shoe exists, I would wear it.

In the 90’s, DC approaches the Beastie Boys with some shoes, but they refused to wear them until they did some research, and found out that DC’s Korean factory was in fact fairly progressive, with paid holidays and transport to work and back, and the subsequently wore the shoes for a bit.

I suspect that ended as they got bigger, and got bought out by quicksilver or whiever.

There are levels of shittiness, and you are correct, ALL shoe companies use sweatshops. That is an unfortunate and predictable effect of capitalism. But it IS LED by companies LIKE NIKE who, for the sake of astronomical profits, take their manufacturering out of the US to countries with almost zero labor standards.

And of course, who can compete with that? Everyone else is pulled down in an effort to compete. And it becomes a race, and now you have Nike timing workers to hundredths of a second to see how fast they can make shoes. And the only way the pretend to stop, is if someone makes a big enough stink.

Nike is too big, to entrenched, too beholden to its shareholders demand for rising profits to do anything else, don’t fucking kid yourselves that they are anything but.

So to summarize, yes, all shoe companies are complicit in exploitation  to varying degrees.
But NIKE leads the way by miles.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 07:04:07 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 07:10:34 PM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skatingís image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90ís.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
Every shoe sold for skateboarding is working with some shady shit overseas. The only company in skateboarding that actually makes a product in the United States is New Balance, who to the best of my knowledge do not make their state line here. Do you honestly think Sole Tech and Lakai work with places that have better reputations than the Nike factories and can produce a cheaper product?

Nike due to what happened to their reputation due to sweatshops actually became much more stringent on who they did business with.

Look, I'm fine with people saying they don't like the idea of shareholders and people like Phil Knight getting rich off of buying NikeSB product. But, don't try to frame it as a morality issue regarding the treatment of third world workers. Hell, fucking Crailtap abandoned a using a company like PS Stix to make cheaper boards, and I'm supposed to trust what they do with Lakai? Dwindle under Globe sent their production to China too.

You want to bitch about morality in using outsource Labor, go buy a pair of these New Balances you think are skatable.

https://www.newbalance.com/made-in-the-usa/

If an ethical skate shoe exists, I would wear it.

In the 90ís, DC approaches the Beastie Boys with some shoes, but they refused to wear them until they did some research, and found out that DCís Korean factory was in fact fairly progressive, with paid holidays and transport to work and back, and the subsequently wore the shoes for a bit.

I suspect that ended as they got bigger, and got bought out by quicksilver or whiever.

There are levels of shittiness, and you are correct, ALL shoe companies use sweatshops. That is an unfortunate and predictable effect of capitalism. But it IS LED by companies LIKE NIKE who, for the sake of astronomical profits, take their manufacturering out of the US to countries with almost zero labor standards.

And of course, who can compete with that? Everyone else is pulled down in an effort to compete. And it becomes a race, and now you have Nike timing workers to hundredths of a second to see how fast they can make shoes. And the only way the pretend to stop, is if someone makes a big enough stink.

Nike is too big, to entrenched, too beholden to its shareholders demand for rising profits to do anything else, donít fucking kid yourselves that they are anything but.

So to summarize, yes, all shoe companies are complicit in exploitation  to varying degrees.
But NIKE leads the way by miles.
Nike doesn't lead the way by miles. If you are talking about the 1990's, yes, they did. But, due to public backlash, they have fixed their practices to a large extent. I remember Vanity Fair, the group that owned Vans scored significantly worse with monitoring agents.

Quote
Following protests in the late 1990s over unsafe working conditions, low wage rates, excessive overtime, restrictions on employee organizing, and negative environmental impacts, Nike began shifting from a reactive to a proactive mode. During the 15 years covered in this case, Nike made significant changes in its sustainability practices, including moving its Corporate Responsibility team much further upstream in the organization, where it could have a greater impact on decisions by providing input early in the process.

The company also developed multiple indexes that measured its sustainability practices and those of its independent contract manufacturers. The indexes had metrics for measuring the relevant impacts of product waste, water, chemistry, labor, and energy. Nikeís critics said many labor issues had not been resolved, but Nike made progress in that area through collaboration with governments, NGOs and labor unions, and through management compliance trainings. If a contract factory did not score high enough on the companyís sustainability and labor ratings scales, Nike would impose sanctions on the factory or even drop it from the supply chain. These actions took Nike off the top of most activistsí target lists.

Now, allegations have resurfaced, but its more due to them being the biggest game in town. Oversight will rarely be perfect.

If you want more ethical companies in skateboarding, the best company to probably put your money into is New Balance. But, due to the durability of skate shoes, and the cost of first world manufacturing, I doubt we will see it anytime soon on a large scale. People simply won't pay those prices for the NB shoes I posted due to the fact they can't justify paying $170 bucks that often on skateshoes.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 07:16:09 PM
This stems from dudes cooment about saying Zion is the worst
Coz he is a Nike robot or something to that affect

Zion seems to love skateboarding good at he seems like a happy enough dude
I donít think that u can really believe in this core shit ..




Youíd have to be crazy to think that the majority of core pros from the 90ís would not of jumped
Through fucking hoops to be Gett paid by Nike addidas etc..




Imagine if Nike addidas talent scouts were down at emb in 90-95 waving contracts
At those crusty kids .. they would of thought getting corporate sponsorship was the biggest scam ever
Free shoes money from the brands they were already buying stealing hustling whatever..

And haha if u were a skater owned brand your riders probably stealing all ur product back than anyway for money
I would love to know what skaters would of said no to that shit..

Why is taking these companies money so bad exactly


"Not of" . what the fuck is that? Is that some sort of meme or do people actually think it's that instead of the contraction 've?
haha your attempt to correct my poor grammar has left me puzzled 😕
Iím sorry my poor use of the English language seems seems to have offended you and I do apologise

Back to Nike I appreciate the replies to me there is no right
Or wrong answers sometimes it seems the fuck Nike attitude seems to have misdirected hate
Like... fuck Nike... grrrr they tried it sucked.... more money... theyíll leave if skateboarding isnít popular..

Big deal guess what skater owned brands leave skateboarding when
Skateboardings popularity dies down. They go out of business

Nike Sb program has been going quite sometime now.. You see people forget Nike exsists with or without skateboarding..  so if Sb was loosing money why would they keep it afloat forever

On a side note if Iím a put on a pair of non skate shoes today
I honestly donít think I own anything that isnít Nike addidas or Reebok and I got quite a lot of sneakers..
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Jeff Groucho on August 31, 2018, 07:16:55 PM
to be one of the largest and most valuable companies this planet has ever seen you gotta be willing to be cut throat. if you are not willing to be cut throat then you'll forever be a broke boy and in effect result to hoeboy behavior towards boys who were willing to be cut throat. the choice is yours
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: KingKook on August 31, 2018, 07:17:13 PM
I want a top shelf shoe for $70.
I dont care where the rubber comes from.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 07:17:31 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
When was the last time Nike asked a dude they couldn't live up to their end of a contract on, to stay until his shoe dropped for that season? Crailtap did that to Marc Johnson, then lambasted him on the way out because he didn't turn down an opportunity so they could get one last payoff. When did Nike fuck over two long-time friends by selling a brand without consulting them and not paying them for what they were led to believe they had ownership in (Koston and Guy).

Look, I like that Crailtap is keeping Cory on. But, also don't act like they are equal situations. Cory's Nike salary is much bigger than simple board royalties from Crailtap. Cory violated a contract and simply can't perform his job. Big difference in the obligation to pay someone a 6 figure salary, then simply 2 dollar with each board you sell with their name.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: I sniff Jim Gagne's butthole all the time on August 31, 2018, 07:24:40 PM
nike pulled out of surfing and snowboarding when they weren't profitable because they're a shoe company.
who the fuck wears nikes in the ocean? or in their bindings?
sad to say for skate owned shoe companies but nike will never find it unprofitable to sell skaters shoes as long as you titheads keep buying them.
i don't like any multinationals but adidas did tell isreal to shit in their hat and wear it so for that i respect them.
i only wish puma would do the same.

Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 07:28:14 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
When was the last time Nike asked a dude they couldn't live up to their end of a contract on, to stay until his shoe dropped for that season? Crailtap did that to Marc Johnson, then lambasted him on the way out because he didn't turn down an opportunity so they could get one last payoff. When did Nike fuck over two long-time friends by selling a brand without consulting them and not paying them for what they were led to believe they had ownership in (Koston and Guy).

Look, I like that Crailtap is keeping Cory on. But, also don't act like they are equal situations. Cory's Nike salary is much bigger than simple board royalties from Crailtap. Cory violated a contract and simply can't perform his job. Big difference in the obligation to pay someone a 6 figure salary, then simply 2 dollar with each board you sell with their name.

How do you know what his contract situation is with the two companies? How is he breaking his nike contract but not his Crailtap contract? So, are you saying Crailtap doesn't care Cory is breaking his contract with them, or that the Crailtap contract is somehow more lenient? If that's the case, can't Nike also just not care, or maybe write him a new contract? I don't see what's stopping nike from continuing to sell his shoes the way Crailtap is continuing to sell his boards.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 07:29:22 PM
I wonder if there is a golf forum with overweight salty old white men complaining
About what Nike and other corporate brands are doing to there ďcoreĒ brands

I only golf in callaways bro....
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 07:31:37 PM
Golfers don't care about stuff like this. They just want to wear tight pants and neon polos and do corny arm pumps when they sink a putt.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 07:35:13 PM
Golfers don't care about stuff like this. They just want to wear tight pants and neon polos and do corny arm pumps when they sink a putt.

Haha the imagery of that comment made me chuckle

So maybe skateboarders are a bit too emotionally invested in this shit than??
Perhaps
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 07:36:09 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
When was the last time Nike asked a dude they couldn't live up to their end of a contract on, to stay until his shoe dropped for that season? Crailtap did that to Marc Johnson, then lambasted him on the way out because he didn't turn down an opportunity so they could get one last payoff. When did Nike fuck over two long-time friends by selling a brand without consulting them and not paying them for what they were led to believe they had ownership in (Koston and Guy).

Look, I like that Crailtap is keeping Cory on. But, also don't act like they are equal situations. Cory's Nike salary is much bigger than simple board royalties from Crailtap. Cory violated a contract and simply can't perform his job. Big difference in the obligation to pay someone a 6 figure salary, then simply 2 dollar with each board you sell with their name.

How do you know what his contract situation is with the two companies? How is he breaking his nike contract but not his Crailtap contract? So, are you saying Crailtap doesn't care Cory is breaking his contract with them, or that the Crailtap contract is somehow more lenient? If that's the case, can't Nike also just not care, or maybe write him a new contract? I don't see what's stopping nike from continuing to sell his shoes the way Crailtap is continuing to sell his boards.
Well for one Crailtap doesn't have contracts on boards. But, Nike could, but he simply can't fufill his contract, and I don't blame any company for wanting out of a deal, where a guy can't live up to his contract due to an illegal act committed.

I just find it funny the irony in saying crailtap supports Cory, then ignoring the unreasonable ask of Crailtap to MJ, who was huge in building that brand, then also ignoring how they fucked over Guy and Koston in the sale to Altamont.

Personally, I'd rather work for the company that would fire me for getting convicted of drunk driving and am unable to fulfill my contract. Compared to working for a brand that would constantly reduce my pay without notice, and then when they realized it wasn't going to work, asked me to stay on under the guise of friendship so they can make bank off of inventory that would be dead (which they ordered to be made) but can't pay. Or, a company that led me to believe I had ownership in things, and then when the company was sold, weren't able to pay me out.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ballintoohard on August 31, 2018, 07:40:43 PM
Every time I see Neen I think it's Fred Armisen filming a Portlandia sketch about Whole Foods.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Francis Xavier on August 31, 2018, 07:42:33 PM
Golfers don't care about stuff like this. They just want to wear tight pants and neon polos and do corny arm pumps when they sink a putt.

Haha the imagery of that comment made me chuckle

So maybe skateboarders are a bit too emotionally invested in this shit than??
Perhaps
Deep emotions for our shared passion losing it's innocence
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 07:45:46 PM
I never really put too much thought into all
That crailtap business they all seemed like they were actually freinds
To a degree and when money and freinds coz a riff most of the time
everyone thinks they are in the right and shit just gets misconstrued
Especially when parties involved are famous and air their problems out publicly 
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 07:58:14 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
When was the last time Nike asked a dude they couldn't live up to their end of a contract on, to stay until his shoe dropped for that season? Crailtap did that to Marc Johnson, then lambasted him on the way out because he didn't turn down an opportunity so they could get one last payoff. When did Nike fuck over two long-time friends by selling a brand without consulting them and not paying them for what they were led to believe they had ownership in (Koston and Guy).

Look, I like that Crailtap is keeping Cory on. But, also don't act like they are equal situations. Cory's Nike salary is much bigger than simple board royalties from Crailtap. Cory violated a contract and simply can't perform his job. Big difference in the obligation to pay someone a 6 figure salary, then simply 2 dollar with each board you sell with their name.

How do you know what his contract situation is with the two companies? How is he breaking his nike contract but not his Crailtap contract? So, are you saying Crailtap doesn't care Cory is breaking his contract with them, or that the Crailtap contract is somehow more lenient? If that's the case, can't Nike also just not care, or maybe write him a new contract? I don't see what's stopping nike from continuing to sell his shoes the way Crailtap is continuing to sell his boards.
Well for one Crailtap doesn't have contracts on boards. But, Nike could, but he simply can't fufill his contract, and I don't blame any company for wanting out of a deal, where a guy can't live up to his contract due to an illegal act committed.

I just find it funny the irony in saying crailtap supports Cory, then ignoring the unreasonable ask of Crailtap to MJ, who was huge in building that brand, then also ignoring how they fucked over Guy and Koston in the sale to Altamont.

Personally, I'd rather work for the company that would fire me for getting convicted of drunk driving and am unable to fulfill my contract. Compared to working for a brand that would constantly reduce my pay without notice, and then when they realized it wasn't going to work, asked me to stay on under the guise of friendship so they can make bank off of inventory that would be dead (which they ordered to be made) but can't pay. Or, a company that led me to believe I had ownership in things, and then when the company was sold, weren't able to pay me out.

Youíre cherry picking and spinning anecdotes involving these two companies to fit your narrative. It doesnít prove your point but youíd probably be a great politician.

So youíd rather work at Amazon or Google than a smaller and more volatile but plucky business? Not me. Fine with me though if thatís your style. You prefer comfort and safety to the less secure but innovative DIY ethic which birthed skateboarding. Sounds about right. Youíll also find this among 99% of pro athletes these days. Theyíre in it for the money and fame. They donít genuinely love it. Theyíre late adapters, not inventors. Theyíre basics and normies and jocks.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on August 31, 2018, 08:00:46 PM
nike pulled out of surfing and snowboarding when they weren't profitable because they're a shoe company.
who the fuck wears nikes in the ocean? or in their bindings?

Nike was selling tons of snowboard boots and apparel. By all accounts it was profitable, but not profitable enough
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 08:06:05 PM
nike pulled out of surfing and snowboarding when they weren't profitable because they're a shoe company.
who the fuck wears nikes in the ocean? or in their bindings?

Nike was selling tons of snowboard boots and apparel. By all accounts it was profitable, but not profitable enough
Mike Sinclair said the exact same thing about dakline
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 08:17:16 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
When was the last time Nike asked a dude they couldn't live up to their end of a contract on, to stay until his shoe dropped for that season? Crailtap did that to Marc Johnson, then lambasted him on the way out because he didn't turn down an opportunity so they could get one last payoff. When did Nike fuck over two long-time friends by selling a brand without consulting them and not paying them for what they were led to believe they had ownership in (Koston and Guy).

Look, I like that Crailtap is keeping Cory on. But, also don't act like they are equal situations. Cory's Nike salary is much bigger than simple board royalties from Crailtap. Cory violated a contract and simply can't perform his job. Big difference in the obligation to pay someone a 6 figure salary, then simply 2 dollar with each board you sell with their name.

How do you know what his contract situation is with the two companies? How is he breaking his nike contract but not his Crailtap contract? So, are you saying Crailtap doesn't care Cory is breaking his contract with them, or that the Crailtap contract is somehow more lenient? If that's the case, can't Nike also just not care, or maybe write him a new contract? I don't see what's stopping nike from continuing to sell his shoes the way Crailtap is continuing to sell his boards.
Well for one Crailtap doesn't have contracts on boards. But, Nike could, but he simply can't fufill his contract, and I don't blame any company for wanting out of a deal, where a guy can't live up to his contract due to an illegal act committed.

I just find it funny the irony in saying crailtap supports Cory, then ignoring the unreasonable ask of Crailtap to MJ, who was huge in building that brand, then also ignoring how they fucked over Guy and Koston in the sale to Altamont.

Personally, I'd rather work for the company that would fire me for getting convicted of drunk driving and am unable to fulfill my contract. Compared to working for a brand that would constantly reduce my pay without notice, and then when they realized it wasn't going to work, asked me to stay on under the guise of friendship so they can make bank off of inventory that would be dead (which they ordered to be made) but can't pay. Or, a company that led me to believe I had ownership in things, and then when the company was sold, weren't able to pay me out.

Youíre cherry picking and spinning anecdotes involving these two companies to fit your narrative. It doesnít prove your point but youíd probably be a great politician.

So youíd rather work at Amazon or Google than a smaller and more volatile but plucky business? Not me. Fine with me though if thatís your style. You prefer comfort and safety to the less secure but innovative DIY ethic which birthed skateboarding. Sounds about right. Youíll also find this among 99% of pro athletes these days. Theyíre in it for the money and fame. They donít genuinely love it. Theyíre late adapters, not inventors. Theyíre basics and normies and jocks.
I'm not cherry picking. Those are simply what happened.

Simply put, Crailtap didn't live up to their end of the bargain in either of those situations. Why is that acceptable? Those people have family and kids to provide for. DIY ethic is fine when you are just gambling on yourself, but when it's up to you to provide for your family why should people tolerate being ripped off. You think because they kept Cory on that makes them a better place to be, I'd say ripping off or at least being dishonest to loyal employees is worse.

Also, if you don't own anything, how is it DIY. They are working for someone. It's not like MJ owned part of Crailtap (and if he did I'm unaware), Koston and Guy were supposed to but got ripped off of their shares in a company selling shares off to corporate investors.

And to say someone who rides for Nike over riding for a small board brand and core shoes doesn't love skateboarding is ridiculous, and applying your standards of what you think is right to actually love it. I think most of these kids who are good enough to be pro, put in the work and love it. Riding for corporate shoes gives them the opportunity to travel the world, and gives them greater financial security. Look I have mad respect for the riders on Foundation who have to work side jobs to support their dream, but that doesn't mean anyone who takes a paycheck that allows them to be a pro-skater full time doesn't love it.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 08:30:34 PM
Your last paragraph made perfect sense ...........
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: PeggyHillsShittySpanish on August 31, 2018, 08:37:13 PM
Every time I see Neen I think it's Fred Armisen filming a Portlandia sketch about Whole Foods.

lol
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ManMelt on August 31, 2018, 08:39:45 PM
Dom Travis is the man, and has managed to get almost every sick NYC skater hooked up with plenty of boxes. Plus, he sponsors the entire 917 team, outside of Aiden and Genny, and those dudes rip. Nike also does really sick collabs with Quartersnacks, which is the shit.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 08:44:09 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
When was the last time Nike asked a dude they couldn't live up to their end of a contract on, to stay until his shoe dropped for that season? Crailtap did that to Marc Johnson, then lambasted him on the way out because he didn't turn down an opportunity so they could get one last payoff. When did Nike fuck over two long-time friends by selling a brand without consulting them and not paying them for what they were led to believe they had ownership in (Koston and Guy).

Look, I like that Crailtap is keeping Cory on. But, also don't act like they are equal situations. Cory's Nike salary is much bigger than simple board royalties from Crailtap. Cory violated a contract and simply can't perform his job. Big difference in the obligation to pay someone a 6 figure salary, then simply 2 dollar with each board you sell with their name.

How do you know what his contract situation is with the two companies? How is he breaking his nike contract but not his Crailtap contract? So, are you saying Crailtap doesn't care Cory is breaking his contract with them, or that the Crailtap contract is somehow more lenient? If that's the case, can't Nike also just not care, or maybe write him a new contract? I don't see what's stopping nike from continuing to sell his shoes the way Crailtap is continuing to sell his boards.
Well for one Crailtap doesn't have contracts on boards. But, Nike could, but he simply can't fufill his contract, and I don't blame any company for wanting out of a deal, where a guy can't live up to his contract due to an illegal act committed.

I just find it funny the irony in saying crailtap supports Cory, then ignoring the unreasonable ask of Crailtap to MJ, who was huge in building that brand, then also ignoring how they fucked over Guy and Koston in the sale to Altamont.

Personally, I'd rather work for the company that would fire me for getting convicted of drunk driving and am unable to fulfill my contract. Compared to working for a brand that would constantly reduce my pay without notice, and then when they realized it wasn't going to work, asked me to stay on under the guise of friendship so they can make bank off of inventory that would be dead (which they ordered to be made) but can't pay. Or, a company that led me to believe I had ownership in things, and then when the company was sold, weren't able to pay me out.

Youíre cherry picking and spinning anecdotes involving these two companies to fit your narrative. It doesnít prove your point but youíd probably be a great politician.

So youíd rather work at Amazon or Google than a smaller and more volatile but plucky business? Not me. Fine with me though if thatís your style. You prefer comfort and safety to the less secure but innovative DIY ethic which birthed skateboarding. Sounds about right. Youíll also find this among 99% of pro athletes these days. Theyíre in it for the money and fame. They donít genuinely love it. Theyíre late adapters, not inventors. Theyíre basics and normies and jocks.
I'm not cherry picking. Those are simply what happened.

Simply put, Crailtap didn't live up to their end of the bargain in either of those situations. Why is that acceptable? Those people have family and kids to provide for. DIY ethic is fine when you are just gambling on yourself, but when it's up to you to provide for your family why should people tolerate being ripped off. You think because they kept Cory on that makes them a better place to be, I'd say ripping off or at least being dishonest to loyal employees is worse.

Also, if you don't own anything, how is it DIY. They are working for someone. It's not like MJ owned part of Crailtap (and if he did I'm unaware), Koston and Guy were supposed to but got ripped off of their shares in a company selling shares off to corporate investors.

And to say someone who rides for Nike over riding for a small board brand and core shoes doesn't love skateboarding is ridiculous, and applying your standards of what you think is right to actually love it. I think most of these kids who are good enough to be pro, put in the work and loved it. Riding for corporate shoes gives them the opportunity to travel the world and do it, and gives them greater financial security. Look I have mad respect for the riders on Foundation who have to work side jobs to support their dream, but that doesn't mean anyone who takes a paycheck that allows them to be a pro-skater full time doesn't love it.

When were the full business details of the Mariano and Koston fallout from Crail ever fully disclosed? You speak about these contracts and business dealings as if you have firsthand knowledge of the situations but you donít. Nobody outside those immediate circles does. So youíre making a lot of  guesses about what happened.

Are you saying pros didnít make money and tour and support themselves before the big corps. got involved? Because they sure as hell did. Remember Heath retired off the money he made skating. You guys make skateboarding sound like it was a charity case that got bailed out by nike but it wasnít. It was doing just fine. Just because some shady shit happened doesnít mean it was dysfunctional or impoverished. And it sure as hell ainít perfect now. And, yes, a lot of the recent pros wouldnít skate if there werenít getting a lot of attention and fat paychecks for it. Theyíd be working on their chip shots or studying for their real estate exams.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 08:54:11 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
When was the last time Nike asked a dude they couldn't live up to their end of a contract on, to stay until his shoe dropped for that season? Crailtap did that to Marc Johnson, then lambasted him on the way out because he didn't turn down an opportunity so they could get one last payoff. When did Nike fuck over two long-time friends by selling a brand without consulting them and not paying them for what they were led to believe they had ownership in (Koston and Guy).

Look, I like that Crailtap is keeping Cory on. But, also don't act like they are equal situations. Cory's Nike salary is much bigger than simple board royalties from Crailtap. Cory violated a contract and simply can't perform his job. Big difference in the obligation to pay someone a 6 figure salary, then simply 2 dollar with each board you sell with their name.

How do you know what his contract situation is with the two companies? How is he breaking his nike contract but not his Crailtap contract? So, are you saying Crailtap doesn't care Cory is breaking his contract with them, or that the Crailtap contract is somehow more lenient? If that's the case, can't Nike also just not care, or maybe write him a new contract? I don't see what's stopping nike from continuing to sell his shoes the way Crailtap is continuing to sell his boards.
Well for one Crailtap doesn't have contracts on boards. But, Nike could, but he simply can't fufill his contract, and I don't blame any company for wanting out of a deal, where a guy can't live up to his contract due to an illegal act committed.

I just find it funny the irony in saying crailtap supports Cory, then ignoring the unreasonable ask of Crailtap to MJ, who was huge in building that brand, then also ignoring how they fucked over Guy and Koston in the sale to Altamont.

Personally, I'd rather work for the company that would fire me for getting convicted of drunk driving and am unable to fulfill my contract. Compared to working for a brand that would constantly reduce my pay without notice, and then when they realized it wasn't going to work, asked me to stay on under the guise of friendship so they can make bank off of inventory that would be dead (which they ordered to be made) but can't pay. Or, a company that led me to believe I had ownership in things, and then when the company was sold, weren't able to pay me out.

Youíre cherry picking and spinning anecdotes involving these two companies to fit your narrative. It doesnít prove your point but youíd probably be a great politician.

So youíd rather work at Amazon or Google than a smaller and more volatile but plucky business? Not me. Fine with me though if thatís your style. You prefer comfort and safety to the less secure but innovative DIY ethic which birthed skateboarding. Sounds about right. Youíll also find this among 99% of pro athletes these days. Theyíre in it for the money and fame. They donít genuinely love it. Theyíre late adapters, not inventors. Theyíre basics and normies and jocks.
I'm not cherry picking. Those are simply what happened.

Simply put, Crailtap didn't live up to their end of the bargain in either of those situations. Why is that acceptable? Those people have family and kids to provide for. DIY ethic is fine when you are just gambling on yourself, but when it's up to you to provide for your family why should people tolerate being ripped off. You think because they kept Cory on that makes them a better place to be, I'd say ripping off or at least being dishonest to loyal employees is worse.

Also, if you don't own anything, how is it DIY. They are working for someone. It's not like MJ owned part of Crailtap (and if he did I'm unaware), Koston and Guy were supposed to but got ripped off of their shares in a company selling shares off to corporate investors.

And to say someone who rides for Nike over riding for a small board brand and core shoes doesn't love skateboarding is ridiculous, and applying your standards of what you think is right to actually love it. I think most of these kids who are good enough to be pro, put in the work and loved it. Riding for corporate shoes gives them the opportunity to travel the world and do it, and gives them greater financial security. Look I have mad respect for the riders on Foundation who have to work side jobs to support their dream, but that doesn't mean anyone who takes a paycheck that allows them to be a pro-skater full time doesn't love it.

When were the full business details of the Mariano and Koston fallout from Crail ever fully disclosed? You speak about these contracts and business dealings as if you have firsthand knowledge of the situations but you donít. Nobody outside those immediate circles does. So youíre making a lot of  guesses about what happened.

Are you saying pros didnít make money and tour and support themselves before the big corps. got involved? Because they sure as hell did. Remember Heath retired off the money he made skating. You guys make skateboarding sound like it was a charity case that got bailed out by nike but it wasnít. It was doing just fine. Just because some shady shit happened doesnít mean it was dysfunctional or impoverished. And it sure as hell ainít perfect now. And, yes, a lot of the recent pros wouldnít skate if there werenít getting a lot of attention and fat paychecks for it. Theyíd be working on their chip shots or studying for their real estate exams.
Koston talks about in a Route One if things never went wrong with Girl with the takeover, he and Guy never would have left. There is also the whole thing with Podium, which is talked about in his Epicly Later'd. MJ is on record with his side, and Carroll basically says they encouraged MJ to stay, because of what it would do to their last batch of shoes. My point was, you point to Crailtap as the moral company because they kept Cory on, but ignore a bunch of shady shit has also happened with them. Do you really think those guys would just walk away over a small dispute? They must have felt pretty wronged.

Yes, company's were doing big tours long before Nike came along. But, if you really want to see what gave Nike their in, it was that these core-companies you idealized decided to sell to corporations at the expense of local skate shops in the name of greed. So, when Nike came along and offered these brands on exclusives that would not only sell to skaters but hypebeasts it was hard to turn down. Obviously, once Nike got their in, they were not a much better partner. But, let's not idealize companies that helped significantly fuel their growth through selling to Zumiez at the expense of the local shop.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DONKEYSAUCE on August 31, 2018, 08:57:13 PM
Who cares?
http://www.tmetz.net/skateboard/PepsiSkateboardBrochure.pdf
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: jakeumms on August 31, 2018, 09:06:56 PM
Who cares?
http://www.tmetz.net/skateboard/PepsiSkateboardBrochure.pdf

I love that there is very little that is safe about the cover of that brochure. Thanks for posting that.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 09:11:24 PM
Look at the way Crailtap is treating Cory Kennedy versus nike. That says enough right there. If nike could have its way, skateboarding would be turned into a stadium sport like football or baseball where anyone outside of college or the pros would be completely marginalized, and it would be completely controlled by leagues and large corporations. The way skating is now, skaters are still in control of their own destiny.

"Businesses are immoral." Then you could justify pretty much anything they do, right? Why care about workers' rights, or sweatshops, or unions, or fair pay, or anything like that? Looking at things through this lens, it doesn't matter what businesses do because it's in their nature to exploit. I urge you guys to never complain about not getting paid enough or not having insurance or anything like that since that's just business. Yet, you're arguing these companies are better because they treat their riders better. So, on one hand you're arguing that all businesses are immoral, but on the other you're presenting a moral argument that people who skate for nike get treated better. Which is it? Are you saying we shouldn't care about how amoral capitalism is, since that is in its nature, but we should care about which businesses treat their workers better? Sounds like moralizing to me.

Skateboarding is not a business but the businesses that have a hand in the scene have an affect on skateboarding and could turn it into something pretty shitty if you get complacent about it. It's already getting pretty kooky judging by the ethos, stupidity and self-centeredness of a lot of the new influx of skaters who are only doing it because it's the hot shit right now. You guys are also fair weather friends who would turn your backs as quickly as nike will when it starts raining.
When was the last time Nike asked a dude they couldn't live up to their end of a contract on, to stay until his shoe dropped for that season? Crailtap did that to Marc Johnson, then lambasted him on the way out because he didn't turn down an opportunity so they could get one last payoff. When did Nike fuck over two long-time friends by selling a brand without consulting them and not paying them for what they were led to believe they had ownership in (Koston and Guy).

Look, I like that Crailtap is keeping Cory on. But, also don't act like they are equal situations. Cory's Nike salary is much bigger than simple board royalties from Crailtap. Cory violated a contract and simply can't perform his job. Big difference in the obligation to pay someone a 6 figure salary, then simply 2 dollar with each board you sell with their name.

How do you know what his contract situation is with the two companies? How is he breaking his nike contract but not his Crailtap contract? So, are you saying Crailtap doesn't care Cory is breaking his contract with them, or that the Crailtap contract is somehow more lenient? If that's the case, can't Nike also just not care, or maybe write him a new contract? I don't see what's stopping nike from continuing to sell his shoes the way Crailtap is continuing to sell his boards.
Well for one Crailtap doesn't have contracts on boards. But, Nike could, but he simply can't fufill his contract, and I don't blame any company for wanting out of a deal, where a guy can't live up to his contract due to an illegal act committed.

I just find it funny the irony in saying crailtap supports Cory, then ignoring the unreasonable ask of Crailtap to MJ, who was huge in building that brand, then also ignoring how they fucked over Guy and Koston in the sale to Altamont.

Personally, I'd rather work for the company that would fire me for getting convicted of drunk driving and am unable to fulfill my contract. Compared to working for a brand that would constantly reduce my pay without notice, and then when they realized it wasn't going to work, asked me to stay on under the guise of friendship so they can make bank off of inventory that would be dead (which they ordered to be made) but can't pay. Or, a company that led me to believe I had ownership in things, and then when the company was sold, weren't able to pay me out.

Youíre cherry picking and spinning anecdotes involving these two companies to fit your narrative. It doesnít prove your point but youíd probably be a great politician.

So youíd rather work at Amazon or Google than a smaller and more volatile but plucky business? Not me. Fine with me though if thatís your style. You prefer comfort and safety to the less secure but innovative DIY ethic which birthed skateboarding. Sounds about right. Youíll also find this among 99% of pro athletes these days. Theyíre in it for the money and fame. They donít genuinely love it. Theyíre late adapters, not inventors. Theyíre basics and normies and jocks.
I'm not cherry picking. Those are simply what happened.

Simply put, Crailtap didn't live up to their end of the bargain in either of those situations. Why is that acceptable? Those people have family and kids to provide for. DIY ethic is fine when you are just gambling on yourself, but when it's up to you to provide for your family why should people tolerate being ripped off. You think because they kept Cory on that makes them a better place to be, I'd say ripping off or at least being dishonest to loyal employees is worse.

Also, if you don't own anything, how is it DIY. They are working for someone. It's not like MJ owned part of Crailtap (and if he did I'm unaware), Koston and Guy were supposed to but got ripped off of their shares in a company selling shares off to corporate investors.

And to say someone who rides for Nike over riding for a small board brand and core shoes doesn't love skateboarding is ridiculous, and applying your standards of what you think is right to actually love it. I think most of these kids who are good enough to be pro, put in the work and loved it. Riding for corporate shoes gives them the opportunity to travel the world and do it, and gives them greater financial security. Look I have mad respect for the riders on Foundation who have to work side jobs to support their dream, but that doesn't mean anyone who takes a paycheck that allows them to be a pro-skater full time doesn't love it.

When were the full business details of the Mariano and Koston fallout from Crail ever fully disclosed? You speak about these contracts and business dealings as if you have firsthand knowledge of the situations but you donít. Nobody outside those immediate circles does. So youíre making a lot of  guesses about what happened.

Are you saying pros didnít make money and tour and support themselves before the big corps. got involved? Because they sure as hell did. Remember Heath retired off the money he made skating. You guys make skateboarding sound like it was a charity case that got bailed out by nike but it wasnít. It was doing just fine. Just because some shady shit happened doesnít mean it was dysfunctional or impoverished. And it sure as hell ainít perfect now. And, yes, a lot of the recent pros wouldnít skate if there werenít getting a lot of attention and fat paychecks for it. Theyíd be working on their chip shots or studying for their real estate exams.
Koston talks about in a Route One if things never went wrong with Girl with the takeover, he and Guy never would have left. There is also the whole thing with Podium, which is talked about in his Epicly Later'd. MJ is on record with his side, and Carroll basically says they encouraged MJ to stay, because of what it would do to their last batch of shoes. My point was, you point to Crailtap as the moral company because they kept Cory on, but ignore a bunch of shady shit has also happened with them. Do you really think those guys would just walk away over a small dispute? They must have felt pretty wronged.

Yes, company's were doing big tours long before Nike came along. But, if you really want to see what gave Nike their in, it was that these core-companies you idealized decided to sell to corporations at the expense of local skate shops in the name of greed. So, when Nike came along and offered these brands on exclusives that would not only sell to skaters but hypebeasts it was hard to turn down. Obviously, once Nike got their in, they were not a much better partner. But, let's not idealize companies that helped significantly fuel their growth through selling to Zumiez at the expense of the local shop.

Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 09:21:53 PM
Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
I do not know every specific detail, but it doesn't sound like they got paid off well at all. How do you explain the MJ situation though. We have both accounts on that one, and in my eyes Crailtap is way more in the wrong than the right there. They had a completely unreasonable ask of MJ and then expected him to hold up that bargain, because they were desperate to unload his shoes but couldn't pay him. I'd say what was asked of MJ is worse than Nike dropping a guy who got a 4 year jail sentence. I grew up on and loved Crailtap videos, and Cory is one of my favorite current skaters, but that doesn't make me oblivious. I don't blame a company for wanting out of selling a guy who just got sentenced to jail for a significant period of times contract, and I don't think a board brand and shoe brand are really all that comparable. I'm curious if we'd see that same loyalty if they had a monthly minimums deal with him on Lakai.

I just don't get why you give companies a pass where riders have been wronged by other skaters, or how companies wronged this community by your standards get a pass. Look, Nike is a corporation and they aren't great. But, I haven't heard of them fucking over anyone who rides them on their contracts. They may have morality clauses that gives them outs, but that is pretty understandable. Do you think guys like Jamie Thomas, Pierre Andrť Senizergues, Tim Gavin, and Rick Howard cared all that much when they were cashing checks from Zumiez at the expense of local shops. No, they only ranted about "core interests" once the corporate giant started fucking over their bottom lines.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Pigeon on August 31, 2018, 09:24:33 PM
Remember Heath retired off the money he made skating. You guys make skateboarding sound like it was a charity case that got bailed out by nike but it wasnít. It was doing just fine.
Remember that Heath is a legend, so heís not a good example. His dad got him to start investing at a young age, and heís been working since he retired his board. He even delivered pizzas for a brief moment, which shows how good his work ethic is.

Pops is probably the best, or most notable, example of someone getting fucked over by a sportswear company.

Iím really stoked on eS right now because Nike/Adidas used to be my only option for shoes that double up as trainers. Vulc shoes killed my feet, and I got sick of swapping shoes before/after sessions.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on August 31, 2018, 09:27:15 PM
Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
I do not know every specific detail, but it doesn't sound like they got paid off well at all. How do you explain the MJ situation though. We have both accounts on that one, and in my eyes Crailtap is way more in the wrong than the right there. They had a completely unreasonable ask of MJ and then expected him to hold up that bargain, because they were desperate to unload his shoes but couldn't pay him. I'd say what was asked of MJ is worse than Nike dropping a guy who got a 4 year jail sentence. I grew up on and loved Crailtap videos, and Cory is one of my favorite current skaters, but that doesn't make me oblivious. I don't blame a company for wanting out of selling a guy who just got sentenced to jail for a significant period of times contract, and I don't think a board brand and shoe brand are really all that comparable. I'm curious if we'd see that same loyalty if they had a monthly minimums deal with him on Lakai.

I just don't get why you give companies a pass where riders have been wronged by other skaters, or how companies wronged this community by your standards get a pass. Look, Nike is a corporation and they aren't great. But, I haven't heard of them fucking over anyone who rides them on their contracts. They may have morality clauses that gives them outs, but that is pretty understandable. Do you think guys like Jamie Thomas, Pierre Andrť Senizergues, Tim Gavin, and Rick Howard cared all that much when they were cashing checks from Zumiez at the expense of local shops. No, they only ranted about "core interests" once the corporate giant started fucking over their bottom lines.
stop making sense there is no need for that round here.... 🤔
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 09:41:26 PM
Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
I do not know every specific detail, but it doesn't sound like they got paid off well at all. How do you explain the MJ situation though. We have both accounts on that one, and in my eyes Crailtap is way more in the wrong than the right there. They had a completely unreasonable ask of MJ and then expected him to hold up that bargain, because they were desperate to unload his shoes but couldn't pay him. I'd say what was asked of MJ is worse than Nike dropping a guy who got a 4 year jail sentence. I grew up on and loved Crailtap videos, and Cory is one of my favorite current skaters, but that doesn't make me oblivious. I don't blame a company for wanting out of selling a guy who just got sentenced to jail for a significant period of times contract, and I don't think a board brand and shoe brand are really all that comparable. I'm curious if we'd see that same loyalty if they had a monthly minimums deal with him on Lakai.

I just don't get why you give companies a pass where riders have been wronged by other skaters, or how companies wronged this community by your standards get a pass. Look, Nike is a corporation and they aren't great. But, I haven't heard of them fucking over anyone who rides them on their contracts. They may have morality clauses that gives them outs, but that is pretty understandable. Do you think guys like Jamie Thomas, Pierre Andrť Senizergues, Tim Gavin, and Rick Howard cared all that much when they were cashing checks from Zumiez at the expense of local shops. No, they only ranted about "core interests" once the corporate giant started fucking over their bottom lines.

MJ was not imposed upon in any way. He didn't have to go to Adidas immediately. He could've stuck around a bit longer at a company who sponsored him for that long. As for the "core" companies you mentioned, there was no reason for these people to rant about "core interests." (Is that a real quote. Who said it? Why is it in quotes?) The dichotomy didn't even exist until nike and the others entered the picture. You can't rant about something that doesn't exist yet.

On a side note: It's crazy that skateboarders came up with a pejorative - "core" - for their own scene. That's pretty fucked up. But people will do anything to justify selling out, including smear campaigns and treachery and rewriting history.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Atiba Applebum on August 31, 2018, 09:44:50 PM
Three pages already and no ones talking about that Sinclair interview where he compares the touring lifestyle of Nike vs Foundation?

The shelf life of skaterís careers is pretty small.  Iím al for them making what they can for as long as they can.  Many shot themselves in the foot educationally but wonít be able to bounce back post-sports like major league athletes do. 

I grew up wearing eS, emerica, lakais.  They appealed to me when I was a teenager.   Iím 33 now and I wear mostly corporate shoes.   My tastes have changed and Iíd feel goofy at my age wearing the shoes I did when I was 16.   I donít have larger conversations in my head when making my shoe selection, but many of the Nike horror stories I hear donít seem to affect the shops I support in LA.   If anything they seem to treat them quite well, particularly with this last Premier store dunk drop. 

Skateboarders need something to rebel against and corporations are the easiest target.  Iím too old to care unless a company is doing something inhumane and against my personal ethics.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 09:51:53 PM
Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
I do not know every specific detail, but it doesn't sound like they got paid off well at all. How do you explain the MJ situation though. We have both accounts on that one, and in my eyes Crailtap is way more in the wrong than the right there. They had a completely unreasonable ask of MJ and then expected him to hold up that bargain, because they were desperate to unload his shoes but couldn't pay him. I'd say what was asked of MJ is worse than Nike dropping a guy who got a 4 year jail sentence. I grew up on and loved Crailtap videos, and Cory is one of my favorite current skaters, but that doesn't make me oblivious. I don't blame a company for wanting out of selling a guy who just got sentenced to jail for a significant period of times contract, and I don't think a board brand and shoe brand are really all that comparable. I'm curious if we'd see that same loyalty if they had a monthly minimums deal with him on Lakai.

I just don't get why you give companies a pass where riders have been wronged by other skaters, or how companies wronged this community by your standards get a pass. Look, Nike is a corporation and they aren't great. But, I haven't heard of them fucking over anyone who rides them on their contracts. They may have morality clauses that gives them outs, but that is pretty understandable. Do you think guys like Jamie Thomas, Pierre Andrť Senizergues, Tim Gavin, and Rick Howard cared all that much when they were cashing checks from Zumiez at the expense of local shops. No, they only ranted about "core interests" once the corporate giant started fucking over their bottom lines.

MJ was not imposed upon in any way. He didn't have to go to Adidas immediately. He could've stuck around a bit longer at a company who sponsored him for that long. As for the "core" companies you mentioned, there was no reason for these people to rant about "core interests." (Is that a real quote. Who said it? Why is it in quotes?) The dichotomy didn't even exist until nike and the others entered the picture. You can't rant about something that doesn't exist yet.

On a side note: It's crazy that skateboarders came up with a pejorative - "core" - for their own scene. That's pretty fucked up. But people will do anything to justify selling out, including smear campaigns and treachery and rewriting history.
If Lakai isn't paying you, and someone is willing to pay you that week? Who knows when the offer from Adidas would disappear, they may have wanted him for the premier, and then if he turned them down went to the next person on the list. There was a deadline on that video.

These companies, that now cry about big corporations killing them, were helping kill off the DIY or stick to your own community standards you seem to value dearly by selling heavily to corporate accounts with their products. Do you think selling in bulk to mall shops which happened before Nike entered the picture was good? That was fucking over skaters by selling to corporate interests. Nike got into skateshops because shops were feeling the crunch caused by this, and early on Nike offered exclusivity, and was very selective in accounts in regards proximity.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Bob on August 31, 2018, 10:02:17 PM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skatingís image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90ís.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
Every shoe sold for skateboarding is working with some shady shit overseas. The only company in skateboarding that actually makes a product in the United States is New Balance, who to the best of my knowledge do not make their state line here. Do you honestly think Sole Tech and Lakai work with places that have better reputations than the Nike factories and can produce a cheaper product?

Nike due to what happened to their reputation due to sweatshops actually became much more stringent on who they did business with.

Look, I'm fine with people saying they don't like the idea of shareholders and people like Phil Knight getting rich off of buying NikeSB product. But, don't try to frame it as a morality issue regarding the treatment of third world workers. Hell, fucking Crailtap abandoned a using a company like PS Stix to make cheaper boards, and I'm supposed to trust what they do with Lakai? Dwindle under Globe sent their production to China too.

You want to bitch about morality in using outsource Labor, go buy a pair of these New Balances you think are skatable.

https://www.newbalance.com/made-in-the-usa/

If an ethical skate shoe exists, I would wear it.

In the 90ís, DC approaches the Beastie Boys with some shoes, but they refused to wear them until they did some research, and found out that DCís Korean factory was in fact fairly progressive, with paid holidays and transport to work and back, and the subsequently wore the shoes for a bit.

I suspect that ended as they got bigger, and got bought out by quicksilver or whiever.

There are levels of shittiness, and you are correct, ALL shoe companies use sweatshops. That is an unfortunate and predictable effect of capitalism. But it IS LED by companies LIKE NIKE who, for the sake of astronomical profits, take their manufacturering out of the US to countries with almost zero labor standards.

And of course, who can compete with that? Everyone else is pulled down in an effort to compete. And it becomes a race, and now you have Nike timing workers to hundredths of a second to see how fast they can make shoes. And the only way the pretend to stop, is if someone makes a big enough stink.

Nike is too big, to entrenched, too beholden to its shareholders demand for rising profits to do anything else, donít fucking kid yourselves that they are anything but.

So to summarize, yes, all shoe companies are complicit in exploitation  to varying degrees.
But NIKE leads the way by miles.

You blame capitalism for being ammoral and seeking profit at all costs. You believe the system will abuse humans and destroy the environment. So why then wouldnít that same system be able to create ďethicalĒ shoes if there was sufficient demand. Nike or any other company would make 100% American made shoes with local resources if they could do so profitably. Your beliefs are not justified by the demand in the free market. You in turn want to force your own beliefs on the market through regulation to achieve an outcome you yourself deem more important. Letís say you get your way and all shoe companies can only make extremely expensive ďethicalĒ shoes. Then what? You seem to loathe the idea of incentives through profit. So what are these companies making shoes for? How many shoes do they make? Who gets to decide what the price will be? How much material will each company be allotted?
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on August 31, 2018, 10:45:03 PM
Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
I do not know every specific detail, but it doesn't sound like they got paid off well at all. How do you explain the MJ situation though. We have both accounts on that one, and in my eyes Crailtap is way more in the wrong than the right there. They had a completely unreasonable ask of MJ and then expected him to hold up that bargain, because they were desperate to unload his shoes but couldn't pay him. I'd say what was asked of MJ is worse than Nike dropping a guy who got a 4 year jail sentence. I grew up on and loved Crailtap videos, and Cory is one of my favorite current skaters, but that doesn't make me oblivious. I don't blame a company for wanting out of selling a guy who just got sentenced to jail for a significant period of times contract, and I don't think a board brand and shoe brand are really all that comparable. I'm curious if we'd see that same loyalty if they had a monthly minimums deal with him on Lakai.

I just don't get why you give companies a pass where riders have been wronged by other skaters, or how companies wronged this community by your standards get a pass. Look, Nike is a corporation and they aren't great. But, I haven't heard of them fucking over anyone who rides them on their contracts. They may have morality clauses that gives them outs, but that is pretty understandable. Do you think guys like Jamie Thomas, Pierre Andrť Senizergues, Tim Gavin, and Rick Howard cared all that much when they were cashing checks from Zumiez at the expense of local shops. No, they only ranted about "core interests" once the corporate giant started fucking over their bottom lines.

MJ was not imposed upon in any way. He didn't have to go to Adidas immediately. He could've stuck around a bit longer at a company who sponsored him for that long. As for the "core" companies you mentioned, there was no reason for these people to rant about "core interests." (Is that a real quote. Who said it? Why is it in quotes?) The dichotomy didn't even exist until nike and the others entered the picture. You can't rant about something that doesn't exist yet.

On a side note: It's crazy that skateboarders came up with a pejorative - "core" - for their own scene. That's pretty fucked up. But people will do anything to justify selling out, including smear campaigns and treachery and rewriting history.
If Lakai isn't paying you, and someone is willing to pay you that week? Who knows when the offer from Adidas would disappear, they may have wanted him for the premier, and then if he turned them down went to the next person on the list. There was a deadline on that video.

These companies, that now cry about big corporations killing them, were helping kill off the DIY or stick to your own community standards you seem to value dearly by selling heavily to corporate accounts with their products. Do you think selling in bulk to mall shops which happened before Nike entered the picture was good? That was fucking over skaters by selling to corporate interests. Nike got into skateshops because shops were feeling the crunch caused by this, and early on Nike offered exclusivity, and was very selective in accounts in regards proximity.

Skate shops started disappearing mostly because of online ordering. Anyway, youíre getting me all wrong. I donít expect businesses to not act like businesses and Iím not trying to pick the lesser of two evils, which seems to be the gist of your guysí argument when youíre not talking about how all businesses are immoral. I donít care about morals. I care about skateboarding and supporting the businesses that will leave it in the best shape possible in the future and give skaters the most sovereignty. Thereís no way a company like nike isnít going to try to dictate how things should be done. Skateboarding is not a business. So businesses and their amorality donít matter to skateboarding. No one is owed a living because they can skate well and thatís always been the understanding until recently when skaters started treating it like a business and a pro sport and feeling entitled to shit.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on August 31, 2018, 10:58:40 PM
Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
I do not know every specific detail, but it doesn't sound like they got paid off well at all. How do you explain the MJ situation though. We have both accounts on that one, and in my eyes Crailtap is way more in the wrong than the right there. They had a completely unreasonable ask of MJ and then expected him to hold up that bargain, because they were desperate to unload his shoes but couldn't pay him. I'd say what was asked of MJ is worse than Nike dropping a guy who got a 4 year jail sentence. I grew up on and loved Crailtap videos, and Cory is one of my favorite current skaters, but that doesn't make me oblivious. I don't blame a company for wanting out of selling a guy who just got sentenced to jail for a significant period of times contract, and I don't think a board brand and shoe brand are really all that comparable. I'm curious if we'd see that same loyalty if they had a monthly minimums deal with him on Lakai.

I just don't get why you give companies a pass where riders have been wronged by other skaters, or how companies wronged this community by your standards get a pass. Look, Nike is a corporation and they aren't great. But, I haven't heard of them fucking over anyone who rides them on their contracts. They may have morality clauses that gives them outs, but that is pretty understandable. Do you think guys like Jamie Thomas, Pierre Andrť Senizergues, Tim Gavin, and Rick Howard cared all that much when they were cashing checks from Zumiez at the expense of local shops. No, they only ranted about "core interests" once the corporate giant started fucking over their bottom lines.

MJ was not imposed upon in any way. He didn't have to go to Adidas immediately. He could've stuck around a bit longer at a company who sponsored him for that long. As for the "core" companies you mentioned, there was no reason for these people to rant about "core interests." (Is that a real quote. Who said it? Why is it in quotes?) The dichotomy didn't even exist until nike and the others entered the picture. You can't rant about something that doesn't exist yet.

On a side note: It's crazy that skateboarders came up with a pejorative - "core" - for their own scene. That's pretty fucked up. But people will do anything to justify selling out, including smear campaigns and treachery and rewriting history.
If Lakai isn't paying you, and someone is willing to pay you that week? Who knows when the offer from Adidas would disappear, they may have wanted him for the premier, and then if he turned them down went to the next person on the list. There was a deadline on that video.

These companies, that now cry about big corporations killing them, were helping kill off the DIY or stick to your own community standards you seem to value dearly by selling heavily to corporate accounts with their products. Do you think selling in bulk to mall shops which happened before Nike entered the picture was good? That was fucking over skaters by selling to corporate interests. Nike got into skateshops because shops were feeling the crunch caused by this, and early on Nike offered exclusivity, and was very selective in accounts in regards proximity.

Skate shops started disappearing mostly because of online ordering. Anyway, youíre getting me all wrong. I donít expect businesses to not act like businesses and Iím not trying to pick the lesser of two evils, which seems to be the gist of your guysí argument when youíre not talking about how all businesses are immoral. I donít care about morals. I care about skateboarding and supporting the businesses that will leave it in the best shape possible in the future and give skaters the most sovereignty. Thereís no way a company like nike isnít going to try to dictate how things should be done. Skateboarding is not a business. So businesses and their amorality donít matter to skateboarding. No one is owed a living because they can skate well and thatís always been the understanding until recently when skaters started treating it like a business and a pro sport and feeling entitled to shit.
I'd would like to think that the pros and skaters I love watching are getting properly compensated. And, you hear way too much about shady shit going on before Nike caused the decline of brands because of their business model. You hear bad shit about Circa, which led to Jamie moving on and starting Fallen.

While Nike is a bit like dealing with the devil, and they have done shops dirty in recent years (and what converse is implementing in Canada is scary). But, I do think aspects of NikeSB bring in money that otherwise wouldn't enter the skate industry. Through the hypebeast aspect of NikeSB shoes and people who never skate buying them. If that helps pay guys who are in their 40's good money such as BA, Lance, Koston, or sponsoring lesser known kids on smaller to help them make good money such as the Polar or 917 guys they pay, I'd think that's a good thing.

I respect your idealism. I just think that is probably impossible to implement or have last. So, I'll enjoy guys getting hooked up and able to make a great living, and produce footage. That happened before, but even if skateboarding was left uninvaded, I think exactly what you fear would of just happened. Podium or Sole Tech would just be our Nike, with significant influence.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: stophatin on September 01, 2018, 12:06:08 AM
Skate shops started disappearing mostly because of online ordering.

Disagree.   Skate shops disappeared when people stopped buying skateboards.   I have no idea how the last remaining skate shops can survive on what appears to be zero sales
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Chavo on September 01, 2018, 12:34:15 AM
Quote
smaller brands can't afford to pay skaters because everyone is buying nikes over their shoes. nike loses interest in skating = smaller brands aren't smaller anymore = can afford to pay skaters. plenty people were making bank off shoes before nike came along
Vans had a monopoly on "made for skateboarding" shoes for decades and squandered it. They also notoriously dropped people when they got hurt in ways that would require significant recovery time. Instead, they put all that money in their pocket.

Because Vans didn't innovate, people wore court shoes made by sporting goods companies Ė see all the old photos of pros wearing Jordan 1s, Natas' Converse Dr. J's, Mike V's Adidas Patrick Ewings, etc. Eventually other skate brands like Vision Street Wear and Etnies came into existence and proved there was an unserved market.

The driving factor behind the popularity of basketball shoes was that they were cheap. You could by Converse Cons or Weapons for under $30 (discount sneaker stores in California were ubiquitous and no one cared about collecting shoes) that would last you months or Vans High Tops for $32. Those overbuilt Ewings or Ellesse were terrible skate shoes with poor board feel and little grip but were a good value.

People seem to forget that Airwalk designed a shoe from scratch to address street skating and dominated the market until the mid-90s. Vision addressed the ollie hole problem in 1986 and Vans made the Madrid in 1987, but they were terrible and overpriced.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Atiba Applebum on September 01, 2018, 12:37:30 AM
Skate shops started disappearing mostly because of online ordering.

Disagree.   Skate shops disappeared when people stopped buying skateboards.   I have no idea how the last remaining skate shops can survive on what appears to be zero sales

Skate shops started disappearing when the 08 recession hit.   They continued to dwindle (as all brick and mortar retail has) due to internet sales. 
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Krooked antihero on September 01, 2018, 01:44:42 AM
Three pages already and no ones talking about that Sinclair interview where he compares the touring lifestyle of Nike vs Foundation?

The shelf life of skaterís careers is pretty small.  Iím al for them making what they can for as long as they can.  Many shot themselves in the foot educationally but wonít be able to bounce back post-sports like major league athletes do. 

I grew up wearing eS, emerica, lakais.  They appealed to me when I was a teenager.   Iím 33 now and I wear mostly corporate shoes.   My tastes have changed and Iíd feel goofy at my age wearing the shoes I did when I was 16.   I donít have larger conversations in my head when making my shoe selection, but many of the Nike horror stories I hear donít seem to affect the shops I support in LA.   If anything they seem to treat them quite well, particularly with this last Premier store dunk drop. 

Skateboarders need something to rebel against and corporations are the easiest target.  Iím too old to care unless a company is doing something inhumane and against my personal ethics.
Iím couple of years older than you and I fucking love to skate same brands as I did when I was 16  ;D (mostly ťS)
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: botefdunn on September 01, 2018, 02:03:50 AM
Skateboarding is the wild beauty, the fun-loving and innocent belle of the ball.
And nike is by far the flushest, flashiest pimp, capable of most effectively pedalling skateboarding's ass in the pages of sports illustrated, and will even give it a decent cut (so long as it remains fresh and desirable of course, barring which it'll get chucked without a second thought).
Outside in the parking lot is Sheep, denied at the door because of its innaproprite footwear. Sheep is erratic and independent,  and will probably paint skateboarding buck naked for the world to see, but sheep's heart is true: through ups and downs, sheep will worship skating for the long haul. And you never know, maybe one of those weird ideas will pan out and make a bunch of money. Or maybe sheep'll break its neck trying some stupid trick. Maybe both.
There's no way of knowing who skateboarding will choose in the end, but it's obvious nobody likes nike, they just jock because of the money.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Atiba Applebum on September 01, 2018, 03:29:13 AM
Three pages already and no ones talking about that Sinclair interview where he compares the touring lifestyle of Nike vs Foundation?

The shelf life of skaterís careers is pretty small.  Iím al for them making what they can for as long as they can.  Many shot themselves in the foot educationally but wonít be able to bounce back post-sports like major league athletes do. 

I grew up wearing eS, emerica, lakais.  They appealed to me when I was a teenager.   Iím 33 now and I wear mostly corporate shoes.   My tastes have changed and Iíd feel goofy at my age wearing the shoes I did when I was 16.   I donít have larger conversations in my head when making my shoe selection, but many of the Nike horror stories I hear donít seem to affect the shops I support in LA.   If anything they seem to treat them quite well, particularly with this last Premier store dunk drop. 

Skateboarders need something to rebel against and corporations are the easiest target.  Iím too old to care unless a company is doing something inhumane and against my personal ethics.
Iím couple of years older than you and I fucking love to skate same brands as I did when I was 16  ;D (mostly ťS)

I always will love the accel even though I was devastated they never made a white /gum version back then.  I guess when I think a little more about it, when I was at that age I was wearing shoes to emulate the skaters I wanted to be.  I donít really have that relationship with shoes or clothes esp since Iím older than the majority of these skaters and thatíd be weird
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on September 01, 2018, 05:36:19 AM
Three pages already and no ones talking about that Sinclair interview where he compares the touring lifestyle of Nike vs Foundation?

The shelf life of skaterís careers is pretty small.  Iím al for them making what they can for as long as they can.  Many shot themselves in the foot educationally but wonít be able to bounce back post-sports like major league athletes do. 

I grew up wearing eS, emerica, lakais.  They appealed to me when I was a teenager.   Iím 33 now and I wear mostly corporate shoes.   My tastes have changed and Iíd feel goofy at my age wearing the shoes I did when I was 16.   I donít have larger conversations in my head when making my shoe selection, but many of the Nike horror stories I hear donít seem to affect the shops I support in LA.   If anything they seem to treat them quite well, particularly with this last Premier store dunk drop. 

Skateboarders need something to rebel against and corporations are the easiest target.  Iím too old to care unless a company is doing something inhumane and against my personal ethics.
Iím couple of years older than you and I fucking love to skate same brands as I did when I was 16  ;D (mostly ťS)

I always will love the accel even though I was devastated they never made a white /gum version back then.  I guess when I think a little more about it, when I was at that age I was wearing shoes to emulate the skaters I wanted to be.  I donít really have that relationship with shoes or clothes esp since Iím older than the majority of these skaters and thatíd be weird
I get that .. perfect example is brown/gum accel Tom penny shoe in my mind and Iím not sure if he actually skated those that much..

Most of the modern skateboarding I like is not really that popular here it seems
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on September 01, 2018, 06:57:53 AM
Skaters repeatedly said no to Nike, as they were obviously just trying to exploit skatingís image to sell shoes. I can remember 2 separate attempts where Nike tried to break into skateboarding and no one took them seriously. Skating had gone me through hard times, and was suspicious of anybody from the outside.

And once upon a time, people gave a shit about sweatshop labor, Nike had a terrible reputation in the 90ís.

Why is taking corporate money so bad? Because the vast majority of the money is made by shortchanging workers, especially in factories overseas. The ones that actually do the real work and make the shoes. (And this goes for pretty much most large shoe companies, Vans included). 

Your corporate salary is only available because someone else below you is getting ripped off.
Every shoe sold for skateboarding is working with some shady shit overseas. The only company in skateboarding that actually makes a product in the United States is New Balance, who to the best of my knowledge do not make their state line here. Do you honestly think Sole Tech and Lakai work with places that have better reputations than the Nike factories and can produce a cheaper product?

Nike due to what happened to their reputation due to sweatshops actually became much more stringent on who they did business with.

Look, I'm fine with people saying they don't like the idea of shareholders and people like Phil Knight getting rich off of buying NikeSB product. But, don't try to frame it as a morality issue regarding the treatment of third world workers. Hell, fucking Crailtap abandoned a using a company like PS Stix to make cheaper boards, and I'm supposed to trust what they do with Lakai? Dwindle under Globe sent their production to China too.

You want to bitch about morality in using outsource Labor, go buy a pair of these New Balances you think are skatable.

https://www.newbalance.com/made-in-the-usa/

If an ethical skate shoe exists, I would wear it.

In the 90ís, DC approaches the Beastie Boys with some shoes, but they refused to wear them until they did some research, and found out that DCís Korean factory was in fact fairly progressive, with paid holidays and transport to work and back, and the subsequently wore the shoes for a bit.

I suspect that ended as they got bigger, and got bought out by quicksilver or whiever.

There are levels of shittiness, and you are correct, ALL shoe companies use sweatshops. That is an unfortunate and predictable effect of capitalism. But it IS LED by companies LIKE NIKE who, for the sake of astronomical profits, take their manufacturering out of the US to countries with almost zero labor standards.

And of course, who can compete with that? Everyone else is pulled down in an effort to compete. And it becomes a race, and now you have Nike timing workers to hundredths of a second to see how fast they can make shoes. And the only way the pretend to stop, is if someone makes a big enough stink.

Nike is too big, to entrenched, too beholden to its shareholders demand for rising profits to do anything else, donít fucking kid yourselves that they are anything but.

So to summarize, yes, all shoe companies are complicit in exploitation  to varying degrees.
But NIKE leads the way by miles.

You blame capitalism for being ammoral and seeking profit at all costs. You believe the system will abuse humans and destroy the environment. So why then wouldnít that same system be able to create ďethicalĒ shoes if there was sufficient demand. Nike or any other company would make 100% American made shoes with local resources if they could do so profitably. Your beliefs are not justified by the demand in the free market. You in turn want to force your own beliefs on the market through regulation to achieve an outcome you yourself deem more important. Letís say you get your way and all shoe companies can only make extremely expensive ďethicalĒ shoes. Then what? You seem to loathe the idea of incentives through profit. So what are these companies making shoes for? How many shoes do they make? Who gets to decide what the price will be? How much material will each company be allotted?

I could reply to this and break down each point why it is hard, if not impossible to operate ethically in this stage of late capitalism, but instead, I will just opt for

Fuck you.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on September 01, 2018, 09:36:21 AM
Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
I do not know every specific detail, but it doesn't sound like they got paid off well at all. How do you explain the MJ situation though. We have both accounts on that one, and in my eyes Crailtap is way more in the wrong than the right there. They had a completely unreasonable ask of MJ and then expected him to hold up that bargain, because they were desperate to unload his shoes but couldn't pay him. I'd say what was asked of MJ is worse than Nike dropping a guy who got a 4 year jail sentence. I grew up on and loved Crailtap videos, and Cory is one of my favorite current skaters, but that doesn't make me oblivious. I don't blame a company for wanting out of selling a guy who just got sentenced to jail for a significant period of times contract, and I don't think a board brand and shoe brand are really all that comparable. I'm curious if we'd see that same loyalty if they had a monthly minimums deal with him on Lakai.

I just don't get why you give companies a pass where riders have been wronged by other skaters, or how companies wronged this community by your standards get a pass. Look, Nike is a corporation and they aren't great. But, I haven't heard of them fucking over anyone who rides them on their contracts. They may have morality clauses that gives them outs, but that is pretty understandable. Do you think guys like Jamie Thomas, Pierre Andrť Senizergues, Tim Gavin, and Rick Howard cared all that much when they were cashing checks from Zumiez at the expense of local shops. No, they only ranted about "core interests" once the corporate giant started fucking over their bottom lines.

MJ was not imposed upon in any way. He didn't have to go to Adidas immediately. He could've stuck around a bit longer at a company who sponsored him for that long. As for the "core" companies you mentioned, there was no reason for these people to rant about "core interests." (Is that a real quote. Who said it? Why is it in quotes?) The dichotomy didn't even exist until nike and the others entered the picture. You can't rant about something that doesn't exist yet.

On a side note: It's crazy that skateboarders came up with a pejorative - "core" - for their own scene. That's pretty fucked up. But people will do anything to justify selling out, including smear campaigns and treachery and rewriting history.
If Lakai isn't paying you, and someone is willing to pay you that week? Who knows when the offer from Adidas would disappear, they may have wanted him for the premier, and then if he turned them down went to the next person on the list. There was a deadline on that video.

These companies, that now cry about big corporations killing them, were helping kill off the DIY or stick to your own community standards you seem to value dearly by selling heavily to corporate accounts with their products. Do you think selling in bulk to mall shops which happened before Nike entered the picture was good? That was fucking over skaters by selling to corporate interests. Nike got into skateshops because shops were feeling the crunch caused by this, and early on Nike offered exclusivity, and was very selective in accounts in regards proximity.

Skate shops started disappearing mostly because of online ordering. Anyway, youíre getting me all wrong. I donít expect businesses to not act like businesses and Iím not trying to pick the lesser of two evils, which seems to be the gist of your guysí argument when youíre not talking about how all businesses are immoral. I donít care about morals. I care about skateboarding and supporting the businesses that will leave it in the best shape possible in the future and give skaters the most sovereignty. Thereís no way a company like nike isnít going to try to dictate how things should be done. Skateboarding is not a business. So businesses and their amorality donít matter to skateboarding. No one is owed a living because they can skate well and thatís always been the understanding until recently when skaters started treating it like a business and a pro sport and feeling entitled to shit.
I'd would like to think that the pros and skaters I love watching are getting properly compensated. And, you hear way too much about shady shit going on before Nike caused the decline of brands because of their business model. You hear bad shit about Circa, which led to Jamie moving on and starting Fallen.

While Nike is a bit like dealing with the devil, and they have done shops dirty in recent years (and what converse is implementing in Canada is scary). But, I do think aspects of NikeSB bring in money that otherwise wouldn't enter the skate industry. Through the hypebeast aspect of NikeSB shoes and people who never skate buying them. If that helps pay guys who are in their 40's good money such as BA, Lance, Koston, or sponsoring lesser known kids on smaller to help them make good money such as the Polar or 917 guys they pay, I'd think that's a good thing.

I respect your idealism. I just think that is probably impossible to implement or have last. So, I'll enjoy guys getting hooked up and able to make a great living, and produce footage. That happened before, but even if skateboarding was left uninvaded, I think exactly what you fear would of just happened. Podium or Sole Tech would just be our Nike, with significant influence.

I donít think Iím being idealistic. That would mean thereís an inevitable path skateboarding must go down, which to certain people means a stadium or arena sport ruled by leagues and corporations. This outcome is not a foregone conclusion. As long as skaters are in control, skating is whatever we want it to be. What I am is not completely cynical. That is the ultimate old dude attitude.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: TheLurper on September 01, 2018, 11:05:57 AM
There is no doubt that corp companies were a short term gain for shops and some people in the industry. I've heard shop owners from around the world say, "The NikeSB craze saved my shop." The question is was this the best solution or the easiest solution? What did we do to skateboarding as a whole by bringing these companies in?

Shit, I'd argue temporarily (and possibly just for show) some of the big companies were more skate companies than our so called "core" companies. This is true of the board companies and the shoe companies. In the early 2000s, Bod Doyle was on some big anti-shop board crusade (I'm pretty certain Jamie Thomas was part of this crusade as well). My thought as a buyer--who had to worry about the bottom line and how to pay for the skaters that the shop sponsored--was "Fuck you. I won't sell blanks, but we need our shop boards. We actually make money on our shop boards and the kids can't just go buy it online from someone else. Why the fuck should I pay $37 for a pro board and then sell it for $40 when I can buy a shop board for $17 and sell it for $30 or $35? I want to support the companies, but maybe you can support the shops?"

When Pierre had his article in the LA Times bragging about his yacht I lost a ton of respect for Sole Tech, especially when it was rumored that he wouldn't invest a dime of his own money into the company. When it was rumored the chief was remodeling his beach front house while the dudes on the team slept in the warehouse I lost what tiny shred of respect I had left for Blackbox (I can't bring myself to throw away my KCDC/Zero co-lab board, but I have no intention on hanging it up ever again). We didn't just get suckered by Nike and Adidas, we were looking for new companies to support the scene because the old core companies weren't doing it.

Today, I can't think of single shoe company that I want to give my money to. I hate all of them. The big companies are using us to increase their stock price and the "core" companies are pumping out trash.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Budgie Lasek on September 01, 2018, 11:58:26 AM

Today, I can't think of single shoe company that I want to give my money to. I hate all of them. The big companies are using us to increase their stock price and the "core" companies are pumping out trash.

I have never understood all this "core companies are pumping out trash" bunch of bs. I've been skating and wearing  'core' skate shoes for over 30 years, and I've only ever had a couple pairs that had a legitimate issue or were uncomfortable. A couple pairs amongst hundreds. The Nikes I currently have and the Converse I had a couple years ago did/do not feel one iota better, in fact, the Converse were floppy pieces of shit that I had to stop skating right away because they had no support. Those are made by Nike, correct?

I see skaters with thrashed Nikes that are falling apart just the same as thrashed Huf's etc... people jocking the corpo sports brands have just been fooled by marketing and peer pressure. Ain't no better.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on September 01, 2018, 12:03:07 PM
Koston said things went wrong but in what way? How do you know he got fucked over? There are no details other than he wasnít happy with the situation. What if itís because the other guys wanted an even split but he thought he deserved more than them? How do you know it was Mike and Rick doing the fucking and not the other way around?

I donít idealize any company but there are are ones whose influence I think is better for skating.
I do not know every specific detail, but it doesn't sound like they got paid off well at all. How do you explain the MJ situation though. We have both accounts on that one, and in my eyes Crailtap is way more in the wrong than the right there. They had a completely unreasonable ask of MJ and then expected him to hold up that bargain, because they were desperate to unload his shoes but couldn't pay him. I'd say what was asked of MJ is worse than Nike dropping a guy who got a 4 year jail sentence. I grew up on and loved Crailtap videos, and Cory is one of my favorite current skaters, but that doesn't make me oblivious. I don't blame a company for wanting out of selling a guy who just got sentenced to jail for a significant period of times contract, and I don't think a board brand and shoe brand are really all that comparable. I'm curious if we'd see that same loyalty if they had a monthly minimums deal with him on Lakai.

I just don't get why you give companies a pass where riders have been wronged by other skaters, or how companies wronged this community by your standards get a pass. Look, Nike is a corporation and they aren't great. But, I haven't heard of them fucking over anyone who rides them on their contracts. They may have morality clauses that gives them outs, but that is pretty understandable. Do you think guys like Jamie Thomas, Pierre Andrť Senizergues, Tim Gavin, and Rick Howard cared all that much when they were cashing checks from Zumiez at the expense of local shops. No, they only ranted about "core interests" once the corporate giant started fucking over their bottom lines.

MJ was not imposed upon in any way. He didn't have to go to Adidas immediately. He could've stuck around a bit longer at a company who sponsored him for that long. As for the "core" companies you mentioned, there was no reason for these people to rant about "core interests." (Is that a real quote. Who said it? Why is it in quotes?) The dichotomy didn't even exist until nike and the others entered the picture. You can't rant about something that doesn't exist yet.

On a side note: It's crazy that skateboarders came up with a pejorative - "core" - for their own scene. That's pretty fucked up. But people will do anything to justify selling out, including smear campaigns and treachery and rewriting history.
If Lakai isn't paying you, and someone is willing to pay you that week? Who knows when the offer from Adidas would disappear, they may have wanted him for the premier, and then if he turned them down went to the next person on the list. There was a deadline on that video.

These companies, that now cry about big corporations killing them, were helping kill off the DIY or stick to your own community standards you seem to value dearly by selling heavily to corporate accounts with their products. Do you think selling in bulk to mall shops which happened before Nike entered the picture was good? That was fucking over skaters by selling to corporate interests. Nike got into skateshops because shops were feeling the crunch caused by this, and early on Nike offered exclusivity, and was very selective in accounts in regards proximity.

Skate shops started disappearing mostly because of online ordering. Anyway, youíre getting me all wrong. I donít expect businesses to not act like businesses and Iím not trying to pick the lesser of two evils, which seems to be the gist of your guysí argument when youíre not talking about how all businesses are immoral. I donít care about morals. I care about skateboarding and supporting the businesses that will leave it in the best shape possible in the future and give skaters the most sovereignty. Thereís no way a company like nike isnít going to try to dictate how things should be done. Skateboarding is not a business. So businesses and their amorality donít matter to skateboarding. No one is owed a living because they can skate well and thatís always been the understanding until recently when skaters started treating it like a business and a pro sport and feeling entitled to shit.
I'd would like to think that the pros and skaters I love watching are getting properly compensated. And, you hear way too much about shady shit going on before Nike caused the decline of brands because of their business model. You hear bad shit about Circa, which led to Jamie moving on and starting Fallen.

While Nike is a bit like dealing with the devil, and they have done shops dirty in recent years (and what converse is implementing in Canada is scary). But, I do think aspects of NikeSB bring in money that otherwise wouldn't enter the skate industry. Through the hypebeast aspect of NikeSB shoes and people who never skate buying them. If that helps pay guys who are in their 40's good money such as BA, Lance, Koston, or sponsoring lesser known kids on smaller to help them make good money such as the Polar or 917 guys they pay, I'd think that's a good thing.

I respect your idealism. I just think that is probably impossible to implement or have last. So, I'll enjoy guys getting hooked up and able to make a great living, and produce footage. That happened before, but even if skateboarding was left uninvaded, I think exactly what you fear would of just happened. Podium or Sole Tech would just be our Nike, with significant influence.

I donít think Iím being idealistic. That would mean thereís an inevitable path skateboarding must go down, which to certain people means a stadium or arena sport ruled by leagues and corporations. This outcome is not a foregone conclusion. As long as skaters are in control, skating is whatever we want it to be. What I am is not completely cynical. That is the ultimate old dude attitude.
Take the example of World Industries. A company ran by a former skater with a bunch of influential skaters involved. Eventually it was sold to coporate interest being sold to Globe in 2002, a year after Globe became a publically traded company.

Eventually, these companies will grow to a level that appeals to outside interests, and how are we to stop these skaters from eventually cashing in?

I also think you are overplaying the Olympic aspect of it. A bunch of that is pushed by former skaters like Drydek, or the people who own the boardr. I would think for Nike and Adidas, they see skateboarding as more popular due to the fashion aspect, and who that appeals to.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: fulloffact on September 01, 2018, 12:38:37 PM

Today, I can't think of single shoe company that I want to give my money to. I hate all of them. The big companies are using us to increase their stock price and the "core" companies are pumping out trash.

I have never understood all this "core companies are pumping out trash" bunch of bs. I've been skating and wearing  'core' skate shoes for over 30 years, and I've only ever had a couple pairs that had a legitimate issue or were uncomfortable. A couple pairs amongst hundreds. The Nikes I currently have and the Converse I had a couple years ago did/do not feel one iota better, in fact, the Converse were floppy pieces of shit that I had to stop skating right away because they had no support. Those are made by Nike, correct?

I see skaters with thrashed Nikes that are falling apart just the same as thrashed Huf's etc... people jocking the corpo sports brands have just been fooled by marketing and peer pressure. Ain't no better.

Huf sold 90% of the brand to some Japanese investment company last year...
https://hypebeast.com/2017/11/huf-tsi-holdings-acquisition-90-percent-stake
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: quadcuff on September 01, 2018, 01:11:56 PM
it really doesn't matter overall, in my experience the people who complain about corporate sponsors in skateboarding are those most likely to not financially support their local shop or routinely ask for free stuff
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: TheLurper on September 01, 2018, 02:31:55 PM
it really doesn't matter overall, in my experience the people who complain about corporate sponsors in skateboarding are those most likely to not financially support their local shop or routinely ask for free stuff

I'm not so sure about this. It doesn't even make logical sense.


I have never understood all this "core companies are pumping out trash" bunch of bs. I've been skating and wearing  'core' skate shoes for over 30 years, and I've only ever had a couple pairs that had a legitimate issue or were uncomfortable. A couple pairs amongst hundreds. The Nikes I currently have and the Converse I had a couple years ago did/do not feel one iota better, in fact, the Converse were floppy pieces of shit that I had to stop skating right away because they had no support. Those are made by Nike, correct?

I see skaters with thrashed Nikes that are falling apart just the same as thrashed Huf's etc... people jocking the corpo sports brands have just been fooled by marketing and peer pressure. Ain't no better.

I had a meeting with one of the execs at a core company and his exact words were, "We focused on price point instead of quality for too long and lost some support." This seems like a decent piece of evidence that the core companies pumped out poor quality shoes.

Moreover, from my experience, I've found that Lakai is always terrible. I've tried so hard to like their shoes but they are terrible. I'm constantly bummed with my Sole Tech shoes and so on.

But, I'd bet the numbers are out there somewhere. Just like Bones did the tests on wheel durability someone is sitting on the the numbers for shoe durability. Moreover, there has to be someone who comes on slap that actually designs shoes and can point at the materials the various companies use and each company's tolerance for mistakes in the production process. Quality isn't simply subjective with a little thought we can make it objective and testable.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Budgie Lasek on September 01, 2018, 07:56:03 PM

I had a meeting with one of the execs at a core company and his exact words were, "We focused on price point instead of quality for too long and lost some support." This seems like a decent piece of evidence that the core companies pumped out poor quality shoes.

Moreover, from my experience, I've found that Lakai is always terrible. I've tried so hard to like their shoes but they are terrible. I'm constantly bummed with my Sole Tech shoes and so on.

But, I'd bet the numbers are out there somewhere. Just like Bones did the tests on wheel durability someone is sitting on the the numbers for shoe durability. Moreover, there has to be someone who comes on slap that actually designs shoes and can point at the materials the various companies use and each company's tolerance for mistakes in the production process. Quality isn't simply subjective with a little thought we can make it objective and testable.

I'd love to see an objective comparison, I have no problem being wrong. If Reebok made shoes for skating that were better than 'core' companies, I might try them, but I simply don't like the look of almost any sport brand shoes. 'Core' brands do a better job when they rip off the sport brands, in my opinion.

I will correct myself though, and say that, sadly, I did find Lakai shoes to be junk. Very uncomfortable and somewhat cheap feeling.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Francis Xavier on September 01, 2018, 08:21:03 PM
I learned kickflips in Dukes,and those lasted me a long ass time. If anything,those need to come back.
  Lakai's never worked for me,I'd blow out the sole before anything else usually. Emerica and e'S were always good to me.
 I've never owned a pair of the swoosh or cons. I had some crazy Gonz Adidas for free in the early 2000s that were super light and durable,but they just weren't my style. I only skate in Vans now, mostly because that's what I started with. While a lot of these big shoe companies can make good videos, most of their shoes don't make me want to pull out my wallet. Let alone the marketing angle is usually bland (to me) as ads are either a clusterfuck or something you'd see in a non skate mag.
At this point I feel like Nike and co were just the catalyst for how professional skating is today, while the energy drinks and conglomerate sponsers are pushing the sport cookie cutter angle(Olympic prep or not) into the mainstream while having the flipside being skating is EXTREME
Quality is different for everyone,not just the fact we all like something different, and look for a certain something in a shoe. We all skate different,some dude's heavy foot flick could fuck his dunks up quicker than his featherlight foot buddy's flick. Stupid example,but whatever.

Rant over.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: TheLurper on September 01, 2018, 09:51:52 PM

I had a meeting with one of the execs at a core company and his exact words were, "We focused on price point instead of quality for too long and lost some support." This seems like a decent piece of evidence that the core companies pumped out poor quality shoes.

Moreover, from my experience, I've found that Lakai is always terrible. I've tried so hard to like their shoes but they are terrible. I'm constantly bummed with my Sole Tech shoes and so on.

But, I'd bet the numbers are out there somewhere. Just like Bones did the tests on wheel durability someone is sitting on the the numbers for shoe durability. Moreover, there has to be someone who comes on slap that actually designs shoes and can point at the materials the various companies use and each company's tolerance for mistakes in the production process. Quality isn't simply subjective with a little thought we can make it objective and testable.

I'd love to see an objective comparison, I have no problem being wrong. If Reebok made shoes for skating that were better than 'core' companies, I might try them, but I simply don't like the look of almost any sport brand shoes. 'Core' brands do a better job when they rip off the sport brands, in my opinion.

I will correct myself though, and say that, sadly, I did find Lakai shoes to be junk. Very uncomfortable and somewhat cheap feeling.

This is far from scientific but offers a fair amount of info in a single place. http://www.weartested.com/

I can't remember if it was DC or Sole Tech but I remember that some company tried to "scientifically" prove their shit was better than everyone else. They had a machine that made the ollie motion over and over again. They put it on display at ASR or displayed a video about it. (It might have been DC marketing their super-suede or maybe it was Sole Tech right around the G2 technology days when they were promoting themselves as scientific and technologically advanced.)

Also, I tried looking up an academic article on shoe construction. I can't even understand what the hell they are saying in the abstract of this article: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640414.2012.723819.

Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ManMelt on September 01, 2018, 10:04:53 PM
Quality issues aside, the Corpo shoe brands are doing a lot more for skating than Core brands. Paying riders, sending them on trips, sponsoring events, providing contest purses, getting their riderís coverage, and pumping out huge amounts of content. Look at some of the week-long events that surrounded Away Days and Cons Purple.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Jeff Groucho on September 01, 2018, 10:42:02 PM
Quality issues aside, the Corpo shoe brands are doing a lot more for skating than Core brands. Paying riders, sending them on trips, sponsoring events, providing contest purses, getting their riderís coverage, and pumping out huge amounts of content. Look at some of the week-long events that surrounded Away Days and Cons Purple.

I'm really close to calling you a hoeboy but I'm not going to. all those events and all that content is all budgeted into their system by some numbers guy. and its all geared to promoting skateboarding and creating more skateboarders for them to sell shoes too my guy. you were this close buddy.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ChuckRamone on September 01, 2018, 11:15:46 PM
the corporate companies get their suede, canvas and rubber stitched and glued together in asia better than the core brands do. they also introduced the idea of tours and videos to skateboarding. thank you. where would we be without you.
Title: Re: Let’s be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on September 02, 2018, 02:34:17 AM
Quality issues aside, the Corpo shoe brands are doing a lot more for a select few skaters than Core brands.

Fixed it
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Dong Hanglo on September 02, 2018, 04:26:20 AM
they aren't skateboarders. fuck them!
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: feedmeseymour on September 02, 2018, 04:33:17 AM
Oh word a thread about nike not being core, very refreshing stuff.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Hash Slinging Slasher on September 02, 2018, 05:31:36 AM
i fuck with nike i don't care. they support a lot of good skateboarders that might not get shine otherwise, one example being max palmer and company. on the other hand, i guess you could say that if nike, etc. wasn't in the game the "core" companies would have the money to support the same people, but who's to say if that is true. what do people think of the notion that corpo brands, in part with the internet obviously, have had a large hand in the geographic diversification of skating? in my mind it seems to be at least partly true.

by the way, anybody know how much a guy like max or cyrus makes from nike? anything?? i'd hope they realize someone like max has a pretty big cult following at this point
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: testing 123 on September 02, 2018, 10:24:21 AM
once again adidas is overlooked
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: ManMelt on September 02, 2018, 01:01:56 PM
Quality issues aside, the Corpo shoe brands are doing a lot more for skating than Core brands. Paying riders, sending them on trips, sponsoring events, providing contest purses, getting their riderís coverage, and pumping out huge amounts of content. Look at some of the week-long events that surrounded Away Days and Cons Purple.

I'm really close to calling you a hoeboy but I'm not going to. all those events and all that content is all budgeted into their system by some numbers guy. and its all geared to promoting skateboarding and creating more skateboarders for them to sell shoes too my guy. you were this close buddy.

Iím not sure I see a point here. Yes, it is someoneís job to handle budgets. And yes, they hope to sell more products. Thatís how ANY business works.
Are you 17 years old or did you just want to use the word hoeboy?
This isnít ĎNam, there are rules.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DISTANT RUMOURS on September 02, 2018, 01:51:51 PM
Quality issues aside, the Corpo shoe brands are doing a lot more for skating than Core brands. Paying riders, sending them on trips, sponsoring events, providing contest purses, getting their riderís coverage, and pumping out huge amounts of content. Look at some of the week-long events that surrounded Away Days and Cons Purple.

I'm really close to calling you a hoeboy but I'm not going to. all those events and all that content is all budgeted into their system by some numbers guy. and its all geared to promoting skateboarding and creating more skateboarders for them to sell shoes too my guy. you were this close buddy.

I hate to break it to you but all companies want to 'shift more product' in the end.
Even the 'core' ones... Also Lakai, Huf, Brixton etc. all get funds from corporate companies. Read Transworld Business once in a while, although some are under transition again.

People forget a company in skateboarding always revolves around marketing. Even most decks are made in the same factories or woodshops. The only difference are the graphics and the way they are marketed. Quite insane actually right? But, marketing is very important...

People saying on here saying that big companies are out of touch with skating are far from correct. I know for a fact that Kaspar of Nike has always been a GREAT skater, was involved with the inception of Nike Sb and that he had a reeeeeally big hand in their comeback to skating in the 00's. They're smart enough to hire the right people...

My issues with it are the following (directed to core and corporate companies):
- Core brands these days aren't really up there quaity - and researchwise in my opnion. They used to push boundaries in the late 80's with highly teched out airwalks. Than carried out the progression in the 00's with shoes that had great protection, panelling airpockets etc (all influenced by nike, let's be honest). And those skateshoes were were worth the money in my opinion. Then everything went down qualitywise and we got thin generic uninspired vulcs that blew out instantly. 
- At the same time skateboarding itself grew in popularity and that era was literally an open door for companies like adidas and Nike, because I'm sure they smelled money and thought they could 'offer' more...
- If money is to made somewhere bigger companies are going to come in and make a superior product for the same price (or slightly cheaper) as the 'core brands'. They snuck in, and we ate it up. And they can do that since it's an open market. No one was at the door saying 'sorry, skaterowned only'.
- The only answer we could give was to not buy their products, but Nike, adidas etc have proven in the past that they just make great product. So the trust that new skateshoe companies always have to earn was already subconsciously there. Because who hasn't owned a pair of nike and adidas while growing up?
- Skaters will definitely be divided into two groups: superstars and regular skaters. When they skate for big companies they will earn a lot of money while 95% of the pro's will have to be happy with a 2000 dollar paycheck or a job on the side...
- The corporate companies have so much money they'll be slowly controling where we skate. Not for us real skaters, we skate wherever we want. But those companies are sponsoring parks/plaza's/events that will be televised/streamed and that's were the public will think skateboarding belongs. Even more so than in the past...

Also, you know what's going to be interesting?

The olympics, as much as I think it sucks, I'm pretty sure NO core brands will have the budget to pay for advertising there. I'm wondering how all that will pan out in the end...

The only good thing about corporate brands in this skateworld is that they're paying 'some' skaters good money and that their shoes are pretty great most of the time.

Other than that I think core companies layed out the groundwork and they just stole the plans...

When skateboarding isn't hot anymore we'll be dropped like a bag of shit. And I can't wait until that day comes.

It's actually VERY similar to the music industry. Small labels discover the great bands, and the bigger labels, steal them, offer them more money and drop them when they don't sell enough. It will happen with skating as well, mark my words.
 
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: lampshade on September 02, 2018, 02:33:42 PM
Quality issues aside, the Corpo shoe brands are doing a lot more for skating than Core brands. Paying riders, sending them on trips, sponsoring events, providing contest purses, getting their riderís coverage, and pumping out huge amounts of content. Look at some of the week-long events that surrounded Away Days and Cons Purple.

I'm really close to calling you a hoeboy but I'm not going to. all those events and all that content is all budgeted into their system by some numbers guy. and its all geared to promoting skateboarding and creating more skateboarders for them to sell shoes too my guy. you were this close buddy.

No shit.  Do you want some "Core skateboarder" handling the money in your business or a person with a degree, or at least a solid understanding of accounting principles.  No one has ever said, "We just found this sick 17 year old am straight out of the hood in LA with no high school degree.  He'll be taking over CFO duties. 
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Gay Imp Sausage Metal on September 02, 2018, 06:05:21 PM
I learned kickflips in Dukes,and those lasted me a long ass time. If anything,those need to come back.
amen!
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on September 02, 2018, 06:19:49 PM
I'd add this, while the olympics is pretty stupid and I'll have no interest in it for skating. I've heard having skateboarding in it, may allow for the government in some countries to fund indoor year-round skateparks in some areas and other initiatives that are positive for the skate community. In Toronto, that would be a pretty big deal, as indoor park gets killed in the summer because no one goes, and then people start getting in on homie prices. That generally leads to the demise of any indoor park.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DONKEYSAUCE on September 02, 2018, 09:45:47 PM
Corporations have been sponsoring skateboarding for 40+ years. It might be lame, but ultimately it doesnít fucking matter.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Jeff Groucho on September 02, 2018, 11:04:01 PM
Quality issues aside, the Corpo shoe brands are doing a lot more for skating than Core brands. Paying riders, sending them on trips, sponsoring events, providing contest purses, getting their riderís coverage, and pumping out huge amounts of content. Look at some of the week-long events that surrounded Away Days and Cons Purple.

I'm really close to calling you a hoeboy but I'm not going to. all those events and all that content is all budgeted into their system by some numbers guy. and its all geared to promoting skateboarding and creating more skateboarders for them to sell shoes too my guy. you were this close buddy.

No shit.  Do you want some "Core skateboarder" handling the money in your business or a person with a degree, or at least a solid understanding of accounting principles.  No one has ever said, "We just found this sick 17 year old am straight out of the hood in LA with no high school degree.  He'll be taking over CFO duties.

my guy, you got me twisted my guy. the point I'm making is that corpo brands aint just giving back to skateboarding just because, they are doing it to create a bigger market for them to keep controlling. don't come at me like that again you fuckin hoeboy. when it comes to business i know what im talking about. I'm allergic to broke boys.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: WarmUpZone on September 03, 2018, 07:31:18 AM
Nike and Adidas won. It is good they are paying their skaters well. After I skated at the LA Courthouse I was a little turned around, because resurrecting that spot is an amazing things and Nike was behind that. Levis has also done some good funding and support of local spots.

We all just have to hope they decide to continue to invest in the skateboarding sub-category, because their strategy has been to decimate the smaller brands with mandatory minimum orders for skate shops and throwing money at professionals to get them to jump ship on smaller brands.

They make good shoes for skating. They aren't peddling crap, so there is that.

I just totally hate that kids might interpret the Nike swoosh as a skate logo. Why, oh why would a kid purchase a Nike t-shirt when you could directly support an exclusively skate brand by sporting their logo on your body. Maybe I'm just hyper aware of what logos I am paying to advertise with my clothing.

In the meanwhile, I'll keep buying Accels while I can. Love that shoe. I'm just sad I can't get them at the skate shop since they were forced to spend their entire budget on Adidas due to unreasonable mandatory minimums and had to cut Sole Tech.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: TheLurper on September 03, 2018, 11:22:14 AM
Nike and Adidas won. It is good they are paying their skaters well. After I skated at the LA Courthouse I was a little turned around, because resurrecting that spot is an amazing things and Nike was behind that. Levis has also done some good funding and support of local spots.


I'm not sure how big of a role Nike really played in that. The real hero in this story is Alec Beck. Nike only planned to have a single day event. Think of an event similar to the Philly X-Games. "Look at how awesome this spot is, but don't think you'll ever be able to skate here." https://skateboarding.transworld.net/features/interview-alec-beck-liberating-courthouse-slo/

DC really tried to save LOVE park by coming up with a plan and offering to write a check. Nike did not do the same work DC did. They just got lucky that Alec was on the case and Synder was great at whining about homeless people being treated better than him. But, that being said, it is too bad the Sole Tech, Lakai, etc., weren't in the position to get lucky. It'd be nice if they were a little more involved in the scene.

Note: It bums me out that Synder is one of Dyrdek's lackeys and his brother is the absolute worst skate "academic" ever. I saw Aaron's brother bragging about his Primitive hoodie and who he knows at the Pushing Boarders Conference and I almost lost my shit.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: MeanestCleanestPenis on September 03, 2018, 03:00:20 PM
Does anyone know what the deal is with pros or well known ams that rep the fuck out of nike/adidas but are not listed on the team? I feel like they go overboard if it was strictly a flow situation, are they getting a small salary?

For example,

Adidas: Chris Roberts, That McClung, LIL SCHMATTY

Nike: 917 guys
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Future Barney on September 03, 2018, 03:33:33 PM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: More_Gas on September 03, 2018, 03:43:40 PM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...

new balance
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: MexicanSpaniard on September 03, 2018, 03:44:44 PM
just do it hoebro, the agent negotiating yo deals
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: TheLurper on September 03, 2018, 04:01:22 PM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...

new balance

New Balance "Made in America" is an amazing marketing campaign, but it isn't exactly true. Only 25% of New Balance that are sold in America are made in the USA, and of those 25% that are "made in America," 30% of the components are made else where.

"About a quarter of the shoes it sells in America are churned out of the company's five New England factories...But the Boston-based company also acknowledges that only about 70% of the value of its U.S.-made shoes reflects domestic content and labor. The outer soles, for instance, are imported from China...in the 1990s, the FTC brought an enforcement action against New Balance over its claim."
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-balance-shoe-materials-arent-all-u-s-made-1412109111

This is better than 0%, but the vast majority of shoes sold in the USA come from elsewhere. Moreover, we have to think about the shoes that are sold elsewhere what % of those are made in the US? 5%? 1%?

Finally, people love to talk about America first, but who the hell wants to pay their employees more and who wants to pay more for their goods? Capitalism isn't exactly pro-community it is hyper-individualistic. How do you get people in an ultra individualistic economic system to think collectively? Currently, the whole system is based around a race to the bottom. Fordism (paying decent wages) is a thing of the past, and good luck convincing any shareholder that it should return.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: botefdunn on September 03, 2018, 06:18:37 PM
Finally, people love to talk about America first, but who the hell wants to pay their employees more and who wants to pay more for their goods? Capitalism isn't exactly pro-community it is hyper-individualistic. How do you get people in an ultra individualistic economic system to think collectively? Currently, the whole system is based around a race to the bottom. Fordism (paying decent wages) is a thing of the past, and good luck convincing any shareholder that it should return.

I'm familiar with that language but i find it misleading: who wants to pay emplyees more? The employees do, a description that fits most of us, and most of the world's population in general. Hyper-individualistic? This word suggests that capitalism concerns itself with the desires of the individual, which is not the case; let's call a system that encourages people to think of their own welfare as separate or even diametrically opposed to that of their neighbours what it is, which is greedy and antisocial. Regardless of wether or not the individuals that comprise a community or society adopt the ethos of wealth accumulation as an end in of itself, a system that promotes the behaviour that results from such an ethos can't be said to operate in the interests of the individual. Anyway, I'm saying all this in response to your question about how to get people to think collectively rather than individually: the question itself is the problem, suggesting as it does that the argument is about convincing people that they need to give up personal freedoms, when the reality is that a system which values a hypothetical currency over the individual's actual state is at best a compromise and at worst an incitement to work against ones own interests. Nike is compromised,  and what kept it out of skateboaring for a long time was idealism. Whether or not you believe that this idealism is misplaced, I think it's undeniable that the answer to the question of how to make life better for humans, is to make decisions that are in fact based on improving human existence, rather than on some other "more realistic" ambition such as wealth accumulation.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: DannyDee on September 03, 2018, 06:21:02 PM
Does anyone know what the deal is with pros or well known ams that rep the fuck out of nike/adidas but are not listed on the team? I feel like they go overboard if it was strictly a flow situation, are they getting a small salary?

For example,

Adidas: Chris Roberts, That McClung, LIL SCHMATTY

Nike: 917 guys
Pretty sure they get sizable incentives and trips for coverage paid for at times. Its why being flow for Nike or Adidas is better than being flow for Lakai or Huf, unless you have an actual shot of getting on those teams.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: botefdunn on September 03, 2018, 08:38:05 PM

Note: It bums me out that Synder is one of Dyrdek's lackeys and his brother is the absolute worst skate "academic" ever. I saw Aaron's brother bragging about his Primitive hoodie and who he knows at the Pushing Boarders Conference and I almost lost my shit.

www.baruch.cuny.edu/wsas/academics/anthropology/gsnyder.htm

Does look pretty colour-by-numbers. Makes me glad i don't live in new york.
Lurper I'm assuming you're either pretty confident no one's gonna figure out who you are, or you've maintained a decent flatground  game. Keep talking I like it.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: TheLurper on September 03, 2018, 08:44:21 PM
Finally, people love to talk about America first, but who the hell wants to pay their employees more and who wants to pay more for their goods? Capitalism isn't exactly pro-community it is hyper-individualistic. How do you get people in an ultra individualistic economic system to think collectively? Currently, the whole system is based around a race to the bottom. Fordism (paying decent wages) is a thing of the past, and good luck convincing any shareholder that it should return.

I'm familiar with that language but i find it misleading: who wants to pay emplyees more? The employees do, a description that fits most of us, and most of the world's population in general.

Hyper-individualistic? This word suggests that capitalism concerns itself with the desires of the individual, which is not the case; let's call a system that encourages people to think of their own welfare as separate or even diametrically opposed to that of their neighbours what it is, which is greedy and antisocial. Regardless of wether or not the individuals that comprise a community or society adopt the ethos of wealth accumulation as an end in of itself, a system that promotes the behaviour that results from such an ethos can't be said to operate in the interests of the individual.

Anyway, I'm saying all this in response to your question about how to get people to think collectively rather than individually: the question itself is the problem, suggesting as it does that the argument is about convincing people that they need to give up personal freedoms, when the reality is that a system which values a hypothetical currency over the individual's actual state is at best a compromise and at worst an incitement to work against ones own interests.

Nike is compromised,  and what kept it out of skateboaring for a long time was idealism. Whether or not you believe that this idealism is misplaced, I think it's undeniable that the answer to the question of how to make life better for humans, is to make decisions that are in fact based on improving human existence, rather than on some other "more realistic" ambition such as wealth accumulation.

I'm a little confused with your post and I was hoping that you might be able to clarify a few points so I can understand you better.

First, I don't fully understand what you mean by the employees want to pay more for their wages. This isn't a decision that employees get to make. This is for management, owners, and shareholders to decide. Unless, we are discussing minimum wage, where the government (a representative of the people) or a union intervenes, but this intervention is seen as a sin by many who have come to believe that any rules (unless they are anti-worker rules) are bad for the economy.

Second, and this is where I get a little lost, are you saying hyper-individualistic is not a strong enough term to describe the contemporary form of capitalism that we find ourselves in? It is not only that we are encouraged to think only of ourselves, but we are to ignore the welfare others, which leads to a break down in the society as whole, which then comes back around to get us? So, basically, contemporary capitalism, privileges the individual in such a disgusting way and ignores the needs of the community it causes the whole system to fall apart, which harms everyone?

Third, are you trying to say the goal of encouraging collectivism within a capitalist system has no value because it would be like putting a bandaid on broken leg? It would simply allow the broken system to continue to limp along without solving any of the problems?

Fourth, the solution should not be allowing to collect individual wealth, but developing a system that moves the whole society forward? So maybe, you are suggesting something along the lines Rawls lined out for a political economic system? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcL66zx_6No

Is this right? Am I understanding everything correctly?

Finally, my assumption (hope?) is that no one cares. I'm just an old guy that spends way too much time thinking and reading about skateboarding.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Jeff Groucho on September 03, 2018, 09:12:12 PM
Finally, people love to talk about America first, but who the hell wants to pay their employees more and who wants to pay more for their goods? Capitalism isn't exactly pro-community it is hyper-individualistic. How do you get people in an ultra individualistic economic system to think collectively? Currently, the whole system is based around a race to the bottom. Fordism (paying decent wages) is a thing of the past, and good luck convincing any shareholder that it should return.

I'm familiar with that language but i find it misleading: who wants to pay emplyees more? The employees do, a description that fits most of us, and most of the world's population in general.

Hyper-individualistic? This word suggests that capitalism concerns itself with the desires of the individual, which is not the case; let's call a system that encourages people to think of their own welfare as separate or even diametrically opposed to that of their neighbours what it is, which is greedy and antisocial. Regardless of wether or not the individuals that comprise a community or society adopt the ethos of wealth accumulation as an end in of itself, a system that promotes the behaviour that results from such an ethos can't be said to operate in the interests of the individual.

Anyway, I'm saying all this in response to your question about how to get people to think collectively rather than individually: the question itself is the problem, suggesting as it does that the argument is about convincing people that they need to give up personal freedoms, when the reality is that a system which values a hypothetical currency over the individual's actual state is at best a compromise and at worst an incitement to work against ones own interests.

Nike is compromised,  and what kept it out of skateboaring for a long time was idealism. Whether or not you believe that this idealism is misplaced, I think it's undeniable that the answer to the question of how to make life better for humans, is to make decisions that are in fact based on improving human existence, rather than on some other "more realistic" ambition such as wealth accumulation.

I'm a little confused with your post and I was hoping that you might be able to clarify a few points so I can understand you better.

First, I don't full understand what you mean by the employees want to pay more for their wages. This isn't a decision that employees get to make. This is for management, owners, and shareholders to decide. Unless, we are discussing minimum wage, where the government (a representative of the people) or a union intervenes, but this intervention is seen as a sin by many who have come to believe that any rules (unless they are anti-worker rules) are bad for the economy.

Second, and this is where I get a little lost, are you saying hyper-individualistic is not a strong enough term to describe the contemporary form of capitalism that we find ourselves in? It is not only that we are encouraged to think only of ourselves, but we are to ignore the welfare others, which leads to a break down in the society as whole, which then comes back around to get us? So, basically, contemporary capitalism, privileges the individual in such a disgusting way and ignores the needs of the community it causes the whole system to fall apart, which harms everyone?

Third, are you trying to say the goal of encouraging collectivism within a capitalist system has no value because it would be putting a bandaid on broken leg? It would simply allow the broken system to continue to limp along?

Fourth, the solution should not be allowing to collect individual wealth, but developing a system that moves the whole society forward? So maybe, you are suggesting something along the lines Rawls lined out for a political economic system? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcL66zx_6No

Is this right? Am I understanding everything correctly?

Finally, my assumption (hope?) is that no one cares. I'm just an old guy that spends way too much time thinking and reading about skateboarding.

you two are the epitome of everything i hate about internet message boards. like seriously? you are going to take the time to type up all the hemityhaw mumbo jumbo and expect some kind of real world effect from it? get the fuck over yourselves please. its skate shoes we're talking about here. go pychoanalyze j casanova in his thread. that'll at least be entertaining.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Gay Imp Sausage Metal on September 03, 2018, 09:20:56 PM
> hates message boards
>> continues to post on them (with the majority of your posts complaining about other poster's posting styles)
(https://i.imgur.com/5vXIwC7.gif)
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Jeff Groucho on September 03, 2018, 09:26:24 PM
> hates message boards
>> continues to post on them (with the majority of your posts complaining about other poster's posting styles)
(https://i.imgur.com/5vXIwC7.gif)

you unblocked me! i take that as a sign of us being broheems now.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Gay Imp Sausage Metal on September 03, 2018, 09:38:56 PM
well, the block function isn't currently working so (unfortunately) I still have to see you complain in every thread and/ or not talk about actual skating
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Jeff Groucho on September 03, 2018, 10:17:53 PM
well, the block function isn't currently working so (unfortunately) I still have to see you complain in every thread and/ or not talk about actual skating

I'm simply giving my 2 cents
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Gay Imp Sausage Metal on September 03, 2018, 10:22:46 PM
in a place you hate. anyway mate, you do you, we've seen worse trolls over the years
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: botefdunn on September 03, 2018, 10:35:39 PM
Finally, people love to talk about America first, but who the hell wants to pay their employees more and who wants to pay more for their goods? Capitalism isn't exactly pro-community it is hyper-individualistic. How do you get people in an ultra individualistic economic system to think collectively? Currently, the whole system is based around a race to the bottom. Fordism (paying decent wages) is a thing of the past, and good luck convincing any shareholder that it should return.

I'm familiar with that language but i find it misleading: who wants to pay emplyees more? The employees do, a description that fits most of us, and most of the world's population in general.

Hyper-individualistic? This word suggests that capitalism concerns itself with the desires of the individual, which is not the case; let's call a system that encourages people to think of their own welfare as separate or even diametrically opposed to that of their neighbours what it is, which is greedy and antisocial. Regardless of wether or not the individuals that comprise a community or society adopt the ethos of wealth accumulation as an end in of itself, a system that promotes the behaviour that results from such an ethos can't be said to operate in the interests of the individual.

Anyway, I'm saying all this in response to your question about how to get people to think collectively rather than individually: the question itself is the problem, suggesting as it does that the argument is about convincing people that they need to give up personal freedoms, when the reality is that a system which values a hypothetical currency over the individual's actual state is at best a compromise and at worst an incitement to work against ones own interests.

Nike is compromised,  and what kept it out of skateboaring for a long time was idealism. Whether or not you believe that this idealism is misplaced, I think it's undeniable that the answer to the question of how to make life better for humans, is to make decisions that are in fact based on improving human existence, rather than on some other "more realistic" ambition such as wealth accumulation.

I'm a little confused with your post and I was hoping that you might be able to clarify a few points so I can understand you better.

First, I don't fully understand what you mean by the employees want to pay more for their wages. This isn't a decision that employees get to make.

Your presentation of capitalism is a traditional one, in that it insidiously asks that we place the accumulation of wealth above all other needs. It does this by asking that we imagine ourselves with the responsibilities and prerogatives of a money-making machine, one whose success is measured by profitability, hence higher wages=bad. But most people are in no such position vis-a-vis capitalism, they have their own needs that would mostly be better served by a higher wage. A truly individualistic assessment contextualizes the situation from the perspective of the individual's needs, it doesn't supercede these needs with those of capitalism, in the form of stockholder priorities. Is a ceo expected to base their assessments and priorities on their employees desires? So then why should employees (us) be expected to imagine and prioritize things from a perspective that is not our own?



Second, and this is where I get a little lost, are you saying hyper-individualistic is not a strong enough term to describe the contemporary form of capitalism that we find ourselves in?

No, just the opposite: I'm saying that under capitalism, the needs of capitalism as a system are presented as the needs of the individual, so that any attack on capitalism is perceived as an attack on the individual and will be fiercely guarded against, but that in actuality, rather than prioritizing the needs of the individual, capitalism supercedes their needs at every turn with the importance of wealth accumulation (ex. consideration of the pov which holds raising wages to be undesirable is given natural priority over the pov that holds a higher wage to be desirable). A term like "hyper-individualistic" posits capitalism as representing the needs of the individual, surreptitiously making any objection to capitalism seem like the imposition of limitations on personal freedoms and self-defeatist, since one is supposedly arguing against ones own interests. The way to counteract this is by exposing the fact that capitalism can and does work counter to the needs of the individual, by simple virtue of prioritizing wealth accumulation above all else.

Third, are you trying to say the goal of encouraging collectivism within a capitalist system has no value because it would be like putting a bandaid on broken leg?

What exists under capitalism is already a sort of collectivism, one in which the needs of the individual are subsumed by the need to accumulate wealth, a sort of "Economy-r-us". Promotion of collectivism as an alternative to capitalism simply serves to reinforce the idea that capitalism best serves individual desires and insures that capitalism continues to be equated with personal freedom, and as such fiercely defended.

Fourth, the solution should not be allowing to collect individual wealth, but developing a system that moves the whole society forward? So maybe, you are suggesting something along the lines Rawls lined out for a political economic system? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcL66zx_6No
I don't believe in solutions, however I do think that it would be good for people to believe that capitalism is just a system among many that can be manipulated for the good as well as for the bad, rather than an inevitability, and that it is a sorry replacement for all other types of idealism. I think that this reassessment of capitalism might translate into personal choices and public policy that inspire more broadly egalitarian societies.
i have petty crime to do early in the am, but i will come back to the video
[/quote]

Finally, my assumption (hope?) is that no one cares. I'm just an old guy that spends way too much time thinking and reading about skateboarding.

Same, but it's kind of a thrill seeing these threads stretch out at times, and I tore my acl recently. If you or anybody who made it this far are at glory challenge, hit me up if you want to talk some shit in person. I'll be the dude in the gold-plated dunks.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Issy on September 04, 2018, 06:55:29 AM

SLAP, are you a bad enough dude to stand up with the alt right AGAINST and RESIST Nike?

(https://i.imgur.com/JJ8FUTW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4cdwqig.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eexX9vp.jpg)
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on September 04, 2018, 07:14:22 AM

SLAP, are you a bad enough dude to stand up with the alt right AGAINST and RESIST Nike?

(https://i.imgur.com/JJ8FUTW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4cdwqig.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eexX9vp.jpg)

Well, on the opposite end of the spectrum you have Japanese ďpunk rockĒ skaters ďdiyĒing their shoes to make the Nike logo stand out more...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlCtdhIlP1n/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=xhutxllvh354
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: essal on September 04, 2018, 09:19:41 AM
im hella surpised nike signed kaepernick. if they didn't, no one would care. but now they have a bunch of dudes active against them, which for nike seems like a weird move
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: rapscallion on September 04, 2018, 09:30:17 AM
The Kaepernick situation is pretty funny. I wouldn't say I support NFL kneeling, but I don't give a fuck about it either. I see it as harmless virtue signaling since they really have no goal in mind that can be reached to make it stop.

That being said, I support a Nike boycott for their shady practices and sweatshop labor.
Unfortunately they are way too big for it to matter at all. Looking forward to the next few years to see how absolutely nothing changes concerning any of the issues!

If anyone hates them that much to ruin their clothing, why not just spraypaint over the logo... least then you can still wear it.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: shitcunt on September 04, 2018, 11:57:13 AM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...

new balance
New balance supports trump and will kick you out of their Boston headquarters for skating there.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: I sniff Jim Gagne's butthole all the time on September 04, 2018, 12:21:40 PM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...

new balance
New balance supports trump and will kick you out of their Boston headquarters for skating there.
vince mcmahon owns wrestling and he'll piledrive you on the sidewalk if you skate their headquarters in stamford, CT.
i'm torn between my anti americanism and my anti nike-ism.
this is a marketing ploy to get virtue signallers and dark people to buy shoes from a shitty company that doesn't care about them.
if we're against the police can't we support the weed man or bartering or somehow dodge the taxes that support killer cops? consumerism as rebellion, whoever falls for this is dumber than dogshit.
someone make an american skate shoe for the love of all that is holy!!!
[the country dude is wil'in too. just buy some other socks and keep it moving, don't razor good socks. first world shtoops]
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: stevedave on September 04, 2018, 12:37:02 PM
im hella surpised nike signed kaepernick. if they didn't, no one would care. but now they have a bunch of dudes active against them, which for nike seems like a weird move

I don't know, I kinda feel like it was a good move, even if DO I think it was done as part of a publicity move.  It goes to show that big corporate companies give a shit about social issues and aren't afraid to choose a side even though it may cause some backlash.  But as much backlash as they get, they may end up getting some more customers who only think of Nike as "the sweatshop exploiting mega-corp" and now see them in a more respectable light.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Chavo on September 04, 2018, 01:21:25 PM
Going back to the original topic, it has already pointed out that the premise is absurd. The big sporting goods companies were well aware that people were buying skate shoes and chose, at best, to give a few guys free shoes (and no money) for a very brief period. Would some financially struggling EMB locals have let corporations shove money down their pants, which they had the opportunity to but never did in reality? Maybe, but probably not. A hitherto no-name am like Louie Barletta came out in a few Sketchers ads. For the most part, top pros were conscious of their image and were aware that joining a goofy ad campaign could hurt their long-term careers (see Josh Kalis's reasoning behind quitting Adidas). It's similar to a serious actor declining roles in Michael Bay movies even though the pay is good.

Converse was the only company, during the 1980s, which made a concerted effort to break into the market with Christian Hosoi and Rodney Mullen (exhibit A). I am not sure what they were being paid, but it was very short lived and only existing shoes (Hosoi always wore Chuck Taylors anyway) were pushed within existing (and very shitty) ad campaigns. Converse came around again in 1995 with Guy Mariano, then in 1998, with the "Chany era".

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/44/e4/1a44e4d5b5b2f18aaed411b7a34122a1.jpg)
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Nth syd bear on September 04, 2018, 01:56:03 PM
Going back to the original topic, it has already pointed out that the premise is absurd. The big sporting goods companies were well aware that people were buying skate shoes and chose, at best, to give a few guys free shoes (and no money) for a very brief period. Would some financially struggling EMB locals have let corporations shove money down their pants, which they had the opportunity to but never did in reality? Maybe, but probably not. A hitherto no-name am like Louie Barletta came out in a few Sketchers ads. For the most part, top pros were conscious of their image and were aware that joining a goofy ad campaign could hurt their long-term careers (see Josh Kalis's reasoning behind quitting Adidas). It's similar to a serious actor declining roles in Michael Bay movies even though the pay is good.

Converse was the only company, during the 1980s, which made a concerted effort to break into the market with Christian Hosoi and Rodney Mullen (exhibit A). I am not sure what they were being paid, but it was very short lived and only existing shoes (Hosoi always wore Chuck Taylors anyway) were pushed within existing (and very shitty) ad campaigns. Converse came around again in 1995 with Guy Mariano, then in 1998, with the "Chany era".

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1a/44/e4/1a44e4d5b5b2f18aaed411b7a34122a1.jpg)
cheers .. this is a far more relevant reply.
Thinking back on it I guess i always just liked athletic and even designer brands because
Wearing a tshirt with a cute cartoon and the name of a skate co on it and skate brand shoes were ugly and not that great for skateboarding half the time.

Seeing Keenan skate in Nikeís at a demo in late 95
And muska wearing Hilfiger at a demo in like 96
quickly made me think skate coís the norm and not that cool to me.

But yeah I guess I just ignored things like the choad and guyís skate star
Puma when they had donger because they werenít sold in skate shops
In Australia they did seem corny.

Well my logic is flawed coz now really all I said is I liked the corpos
Before they got involved than when they tried I didnít pay attention
Now they got it right skateboarding wears them but doesnít back them kind of.
And I still like Nike addidas etc.. so I guess back to sweatshop debates I stopped reading a few pages back
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Atiba Applebum on September 04, 2018, 04:23:13 PM
im hella surpised nike signed kaepernick. if they didn't, no one would care. but now they have a bunch of dudes active against them, which for nike seems like a weird move

I don't know, I kinda feel like it was a good move, even if DO I think it was done as part of a publicity move.  It goes to show that big corporate companies give a shit about social issues and aren't afraid to choose a side even though it may cause some backlash.  But as much backlash as they get, they may end up getting some more customers who only think of Nike as "the sweatshop exploiting mega-corp" and now see them in a more respectable light.

They didnít sign him so much as they never un-signed him when he couldnít get a job.  They were just waiting to use him for something meaningful
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Atiba Applebum on September 04, 2018, 04:25:45 PM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...

new balance
New balance supports trump and will kick you out of their Boston headquarters for skating there.
vince mcmahon owns wrestling and he'll piledrive you on the sidewalk if you skate their headquarters in stamford, CT.
i'm torn between my anti americanism and my anti nike-ism.
this is a marketing ploy to get virtue signallers and dark people to buy shoes from a shitty company that doesn't care about them.
if we're against the police can't we support the weed man or bartering or somehow dodge the taxes that support killer cops? consumerism as rebellion, whoever falls for this is dumber than dogshit.
someone make an american skate shoe for the love of all that is holy!!!
[the country dude is wil'in too. just buy some other socks and keep it moving, don't razor good socks. first world shtoops]

He dabbles in ďsports entertainmentĒ not ďwrestlingĒ - a distinction thatís actually important because it frees him from (I believe) drug tests and treating his employees better (they have it worse than Tum Yeto).  Also, the piledriver is a banned move in the WWE
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Tortoise on September 04, 2018, 04:57:54 PM

He dabbles in ďsports entertainmentĒ not ďwrestlingĒ

https://youtu.be/nwhzqLdA4lY

https://youtu.be/2VKNA-UC-3M


A distinction thatís actually important because it frees him from (I believe) drug tests and treating his employees better.

https://youtu.be/iloSGGr3OvA
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Lame_Nigga on September 04, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...

new balance
New balance supports trump and will kick you out of their Boston headquarters for skating there.
vince mcmahon owns wrestling and he'll piledrive you on the sidewalk if you skate their headquarters in stamford, CT.
i'm torn between my anti americanism and my anti nike-ism.
this is a marketing ploy to get virtue signallers and dark people to buy shoes from a shitty company that doesn't care about them.
if we're against the police can't we support the weed man or bartering or somehow dodge the taxes that support killer cops? consumerism as rebellion, whoever falls for this is dumber than dogshit.
someone make an american skate shoe for the love of all that is holy!!!
[the country dude is wil'in too. just buy some other socks and keep it moving, don't razor good socks. first world shtoops]

He dabbles in ďsports entertainmentĒ not ďwrestlingĒ - a distinction thatís actually important because it frees him from (I believe) drug tests and treating his employees better (they have it worse than Tum Yeto).  Also, the piledriver is a banned move in the WWE
It does allow him to bypass most drug testing and have more lenient rules, like Brock Lesnar failing his UFC testing but not being suspended by Vince. The piledriver is banned due to Owen Hart almost ending Stone Cold's career before it really took off. Also that's a big reason they're technically independent contractors without even a whisper of a union.

After this Kap situation I'm more likely to buy a pair of Nikes but then again they just want to remain on the right side of history and this is very obviously the right side.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Atiba Applebum on September 04, 2018, 06:36:44 PM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...

new balance
New balance supports trump and will kick you out of their Boston headquarters for skating there.
vince mcmahon owns wrestling and he'll piledrive you on the sidewalk if you skate their headquarters in stamford, CT.
i'm torn between my anti americanism and my anti nike-ism.
this is a marketing ploy to get virtue signallers and dark people to buy shoes from a shitty company that doesn't care about them.
if we're against the police can't we support the weed man or bartering or somehow dodge the taxes that support killer cops? consumerism as rebellion, whoever falls for this is dumber than dogshit.
someone make an american skate shoe for the love of all that is holy!!!
[the country dude is wil'in too. just buy some other socks and keep it moving, don't razor good socks. first world shtoops]

He dabbles in ďsports entertainmentĒ not ďwrestlingĒ - a distinction thatís actually important because it frees him from (I believe) drug tests and treating his employees better (they have it worse than Tum Yeto).  Also, the piledriver is a banned move in the WWE
It does allow him to bypass most drug testing and have more lenient rules, like Brock Lesnar failing his UFC testing but not being suspended by Vince. The piledriver is banned due to Owen Hart almost ending Stone Cold's career before it really took off. Also that's a big reason they're technically independent contractors without even a whisper of a union.

After this Kap situation I'm more likely to buy a pair of Nikes but then again they just want to remain on the right side of history and this is very obviously the right side.

Lacey Baker is also featured in these new rounds of ads. 

Did Owen hurt SC on a regular piledriver or a tombstone?   I know Undertaker is allowed to do tombstones still because of what a safe worker he is
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: SFblah on September 04, 2018, 06:59:40 PM
Birdo is about to be rolling in the money if he markets his ďDonít Do It!Ē shirts to the angry right-wing Trumpers.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Gay Imp Sausage Metal on September 04, 2018, 07:47:34 PM
boycotting Nike AFTER you buy their products isn't really boycotting them tho
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: SkateChimney on September 04, 2018, 08:17:41 PM
boycotting Nike AFTER you buy their products isn't really boycotting them tho

it literally is
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Lame_Nigga on September 04, 2018, 08:28:17 PM
I donít fault skaters who ride for Nike and the likes; I wish they werenít involved in skateboarding. I also wish that there was a skate shoe brand that manufactured in America rather than exploit workers in other countries for cheap labor...

new balance
New balance supports trump and will kick you out of their Boston headquarters for skating there.
vince mcmahon owns wrestling and he'll piledrive you on the sidewalk if you skate their headquarters in stamford, CT.
i'm torn between my anti americanism and my anti nike-ism.
this is a marketing ploy to get virtue signallers and dark people to buy shoes from a shitty company that doesn't care about them.
if we're against the police can't we support the weed man or bartering or somehow dodge the taxes that support killer cops? consumerism as rebellion, whoever falls for this is dumber than dogshit.
someone make an american skate shoe for the love of all that is holy!!!
[the country dude is wil'in too. just buy some other socks and keep it moving, don't razor good socks. first world shtoops]

He dabbles in ďsports entertainmentĒ not ďwrestlingĒ - a distinction thatís actually important because it frees him from (I believe) drug tests and treating his employees better (they have it worse than Tum Yeto).  Also, the piledriver is a banned move in the WWE
It does allow him to bypass most drug testing and have more lenient rules, like Brock Lesnar failing his UFC testing but not being suspended by Vince. The piledriver is banned due to Owen Hart almost ending Stone Cold's career before it really took off. Also that's a big reason they're technically independent contractors without even a whisper of a union.

After this Kap situation I'm more likely to buy a pair of Nikes but then again they just want to remain on the right side of history and this is very obviously the right side.

Lacey Baker is also featured in these new rounds of ads. 

Did Owen hurt SC on a regular piledriver or a tombstone?   I know Undertaker is allowed to do tombstones still because of what a safe worker he is
Despite what Jim Ross says in the video it was a regular sitout pile driver. If you look at his head you can see his neck bend when he sits and then he just lays there. The end of the match is the loosest pin ever, SC was supposed to win but couldn't really finish strong. I think Taker can still do them just because it was a different variation.

https://youtu.be/j1u6x3i4nFI

The Lacey Baker move was a way less high profile move of the same nature; they want to say they're at the forefront of diversity and change
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: SkateChimney on September 04, 2018, 08:38:43 PM
Being into wrestling is way worse than anything Nike has done to skateboarding
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Monkey_Mcpott on September 04, 2018, 08:53:58 PM
boycotting Nike AFTER you buy their products isn't really boycotting them tho

Tell that to the angry white folks that hate Kaepernick right now, they out here cutting swooshes OF their clothes and shoes....... sad!

(https://i.imgur.com/qHMsACU.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/h4A7Sn1.jpg?1)

Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Pigeon on September 04, 2018, 09:01:28 PM
boycotting Nike AFTER you buy their products isn't really boycotting them tho

it literally is
Yeah it is. Itís a loss of an actual customer. Someone like you would never buy Nike, so you have no effect on their sales.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Telly on September 04, 2018, 09:10:40 PM
I was at two nike stores on Monday.  White people arenít going to stop buying Nike anytime soon. 
Neither am i if I can get two pair of Janoskis for $44.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Gay Imp Sausage Metal on September 04, 2018, 09:53:09 PM
those posts that Monkey posted are kind of what I was talking to.
boycotting Nike AFTER you buy their products isn't really boycotting them tho

it literally is
Yeah it is. Itís a loss of an actual customer. Someone like you would never buy Nike, so you have no effect on their sales.
I get that, but one could argue that that their initial financial support was what funded the thing that is now pissing them off no?
I guess I should have said, "getting angry over your Nike purchases and destroying them AFTER you've already given them money doesn't really achieve much in the scheme of things". You are right though, I never have/ never will purchase anything from Nike so I have little effect on their overall sales. In the big picture though I doubt Nike gives a fuck, the money will keep rolling in and they got tonnes of free publicity over this.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: tuque on September 04, 2018, 10:08:27 PM
Dude buying 6 pairs of all black Monarchs a year made me laugh out loud
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Sold Out on September 05, 2018, 12:25:18 PM
Dude buying 6 pairs of all black Monarchs a year made me laugh out loud
I was dying at that  ;D
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: VHS ERA on September 05, 2018, 12:42:41 PM
Cool move by Nike with Kap. New commercial has Kap, Nyjah and Lacey. Will be on TV tomorrow. Nike ainít dumb though, they calculated they will win more than lose from this.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BnWlutUDCEX/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=136iexapqaakr
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Voice of the Minotaur on September 05, 2018, 09:53:53 PM
My problem with Nike is that they blatantly ignored skateboarding for so many years, they never saw it as a worthy investment and they continued fueling big money into Basketball and Baseball.
The same year that their horseshit video came out "Nothing but the Truth" was the same year that Fully Flared came out, and skaters all bought Fully Flared DVD's and a pair of Nikes. Seemed that way from my perspective anyway.
Not trying to chime in and lament the way things have gone down and the demise of skater owned shoe brands, but just wanted to point that out.
Funny having another thread about Adidas closing accounts because people aren't spending enough with them, any of the shops want to post that letter?
Here's an interesting read from Free Skate mag interviewing ex Nike rider and shop owner David Mackie from Liverpool and how Nike pretty much put him out of business.

http://www.freeskatemag.com/2017/01/13/dave-mackey-a-new-approach-to-the-skater-owned-shop/
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: Pavementi on September 05, 2018, 11:15:01 PM
My problem with Nike is that they blatantly ignored skateboarding for so many years, they never saw it as a worthy investment and they continued fueling big money into Basketball and Baseball.
The same year that their horseshit video came out "Nothing but the Truth" was the same year that Fully Flared came out, and skaters all bought Fully Flared DVD's and a pair of Nikes. Seemed that way from my perspective anyway.
Not trying to chime in and lament the way things have gone down and the demise of skater owned shoe brands, but just wanted to point that out.
Funny having another thread about Adidas closing accounts because people aren't spending enough with them, any of the shops want to post that letter?
Here's an interesting read from Free Skate mag interviewing ex Nike rider and shop owner David Mackie from Liverpool and how Nike pretty much put him out of business.

http://www.freeskatemag.com/2017/01/13/dave-mackey-a-new-approach-to-the-skater-owned-shop/
He was pretty clear that it wasn't nike that put him out of business. He said that they, specifically their accounting (he said legal) department, didn't have the compassion to allow him to keep his business running in debt. He said it kept growing larger and larger and he couldn't stop it.

IMO, the skate shop problem isn't with footwear companies putting shops out of business, it's e-commerce killing retail. He says it at the end of the story "Nobody shops ten Ďtil six now, they shop online or on their lunch break, nobody walks into stores anymore so you have to give them a reason to be in your store." That's what's killing malls across the world too We got storefronts in major metros boarded up, with no one moving in, all because we can get what we need without ever getting off our computers.

Maybe board companies need to look at adjusting the prices of their hardgoods so that the shops can make enough to keep their doors open? Different wholesale prices for retail accounts vs. online accounts? There's gotta be some unconventional thinking, if we want skate shops to survive though.
Title: Re: Letís be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: TheLurper on September 05, 2018, 11:20:20 PM
I fucking love all the talk about "keep politics out of sport." Like any other aspect of life, sport is always intertwined with politics.

I mean holy shit it is insane how the NFL wraps itself in conservative politics to attract conservative viewers. It regularly draws on nationalistic and militaristic images. It regularly invokes traditional values (i.e. women must be supportive but remain on the side lines looking pretty, men must tough, we must thank God for absolutely everything, we must obey authority, and so on). The real problem here is that their echo chamber has been infiltrated by someone who is pointing something out that they don't want to hear.

Hell, the USA boycotted the 1980 Olympics in Moscow because we didn't like the fact that the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. We used a sporting event as an opportunity for political speech. Also, fans are silly enough to interpret international contests as representations of their country's political and economic system. "Oh, well America wins the most medals at the Olympics because our political/economic system is the best."

Not to mention events of the more distant past where whites needed their great white hope to beat up the black boxer. I mean how ever will society function if we can't block black athletes from proving our dumbass racial stereotypes wrong.
Title: Re: Let’s be honest about corporate sponsorship Nike etc
Post by: cucktard on September 06, 2018, 02:34:52 AM
^^^good stuff^^^