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Skateboarding => PHOTOS/VIDEO => Topic started by: franquietits on January 24, 2018, 08:21:02 AM
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http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/2018/01/22/real-art-critic-think-skate-art-round-2/
Not the easiest for me to digest, cause I don't really have a trained eye for art, but it's still interesting.
Maybe she didn't like Nick Jenson's art, but she obviously hasn't seen him do a highspeed nollie bs-flip down a janky cobblestone street in london!
They should next do a reactions article by the subjects.
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To all critics, reviewers, tastemakers : make something you fucking goofs.
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I'm not necessarily always super into Jenkem but I actually really like the idea. I remember liking the first piece they did a while back : http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/2017/11/17/real-art-critic-think-skate-art/ and this one was good too, I'm kind of stoked it might become a reoccurring feature. sometimes skaters need reminders that everything they touch is already a thing outside of their spectrum too, people have been exploring all kinds of art forever and although skaters are essentially creative people, it doesn't mean they're always reinventing the wheel. I think it's pretty fresh to get some perspective as long as they insist on consulting knowledgeable critics.
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chetty thomas kinda reinvented the wheel with darsktar armor-lights imo
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My friend and I had a joke in our art history class that all you needed to do to get points for the essay questions on the exams was write something about the juxtaposition of something and something else. The more you wrote "juxtaposition" and "juxtapose", the better your score would be. I laughed a little when it kept popping up on the different critiques.
I agree with most of what she said and I'd give her a "hot" rating on ratemyprofessor.com for sure.
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The only thing more insufferable than art people critiquing art is art people critiquing art by people who aren't trying to attach some long winded bs art speak meaning to their work. I lived with a talented artist who eventually went to art school and promptly unlearned how to make cool looking stuff, and instead began doing things like hanging a blanket on a rock and then justifying it with some pretentious description that he actually made up after the fact. News flash - some people just like to make things that look cool and don't necessarily mean anything.
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I'm not necessarily always super into Jenkem but I actually really like the idea. I remember liking the first piece they did a while back : http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/2017/11/17/real-art-critic-think-skate-art/ and this one was good too, I'm kind of stoked it might become a reoccurring feature. sometimes skaters need reminders that everything they touch is already a thing outside of their spectrum too, people have been exploring all kinds of art forever and although skaters are essentially creative people, it doesn't mean they're always reinventing the wheel. I think it's pretty fresh to get some perspective as long as they insist on consulting knowledgeable critics.
Agreed.
The only thing more insufferable than art people critiquing art is art people critiquing art by people who aren't trying to attach some long winded bs art speak meaning to their work. I lived with a talented artist who eventually went to art school and promptly unlearned how to make cool looking stuff, and instead began doing things like hanging a blanket on a rock and then justifying it with some pretentious description that he actually made up after the fact. News flash - some people just like to make things that look cool and don't necessarily mean anything.
By that same token, you could argue that skate artists aren't actually producing substantive stuff, but instead riding off of their built-in audience to peddle unexciting work. Art critique from someone who doesn't know anything about skateboarding can produce a new perspective to their piece.
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Agreed.
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The only thing more insufferable than art people critiquing art is art people critiquing art by people who aren't trying to attach some long winded bs art speak meaning to their work. I lived with a talented artist who eventually went to art school and promptly unlearned how to make cool looking stuff, and instead began doing things like hanging a blanket on a rock and then justifying it with some pretentious description that he actually made up after the fact. News flash - some people just like to make things that look cool and don't necessarily mean anything.
By that same token, you could argue that skate artists aren't actually producing substantive stuff, but instead riding off of their built-in audience to peddle unexciting work. Art critique from someone who doesn't know anything about skateboarding can produce a new perspective to their piece.
I agree, though I wouldn't say that something being devoid of deep meaning renders it unexciting. I think that's often the difference between people who consider themselves artists, and the rest of the world - 'artists' may feel like their work needs to have profound meaning to be worth a look, while many people just like things that look nice and couldn't care less about a meaning to the image. I'd say it's a safe bet most skate artists aren't taking things as seriously as an art critic, especially if it's artwork that ends up on skateboards.
That being said, I kinda blew it and reacted as if she WAS reviewing board graphics, so what I said isn't as relevant. My bad.
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this is really interesting
would love to hear her opinion on board graphics
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Feedback Ted aka clenched anus Greg Hunt was dismissive of the art critic on IG as art crit 101.
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To all critics, reviewers, tastemakers : make something you fucking goofs.
That's like the age old argument that I can't say Shawn Powers sucks at skating unless I'm better than him. Well I'm not better than him but he still sucks.
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Good gimmick, quite enjoyed this, she should to prawn powers stuff next. But seriously id be interested to hear what she has to say about alot of the board graphics these days like the ones which anti hero took the piss of with their pigeon and contemporary
compositions series or whatever youd call them.
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"Real art critic"
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To all critics, reviewers, tastemakers : make something you fucking goofs.
That's like the age old argument that I can't say Shawn Powers sucks at skating unless I'm better than him. Well I'm not better than him but he still sucks.
I talk shit as much as the next guy but I don't call myself a music/art/sk8 critic while doing it. I don't like the "authority" the title implies and the influence it has on people's opinions. A good example is something like www.pitchfork.com, album reviews that can literally make or break lesser-known bands (Arcade Fire's first album started selling like crazy when theirs came out).
Is a well-written/entertaining review better than a terrible album? No, it's not. Can't people open their eyes/ears and figure out how they're feeling by themselves? Should we focus more on the process rather than the results?
"Real art critic"
Exactly. Laughable.
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I liked some of the art and some of her critique. I liked the Pendleton and Lotti pieces quite a bit.
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I watched it now and felt the same as she did.
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I thought it was gonna be board graphics but this is much more interesting. Also, Trump owns a Gonz? Is this true?
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I really love that templeton photo from part one.
To the haters, criticism is its own craft. I love reading good book, music, and especially film criticism. I don’t hang out in the art universe much but found this interesting.
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This article/series is rad. It would be cool to get two or three people to individually critique a piece to compare their reactions.
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I really disagree with her about Hsu's photo, I think that he captured a truly emotional candid photo and it makes me feel a sense of loss and also frustration and giving up.
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slap of criticism
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Exactly. Laughable.
isn't dismissing the idea of a critic dismissing a lot of the depth and craft of art and reducing everything to looking and feel? art critic, wine critic, film critic, etc... involves understanding a lot of history and craft and i think the general idea is liking to understand where things land in that spectrum without having to spend half your life
studying.
I talk shit as much as the next guy but I don't call myself a music/art/sk8 critic while doing it. I don't like the "authority" the title implies and the influence it has on people's opinions. A good example is something like www.pitchfork.com, album reviews that can literally make or break lesser-known bands (Arcade Fire's first album started selling like crazy when theirs came out).
Is a well-written/entertaining review better than a terrible album? No, it's not. Can't people open their eyes/ears and figure out how they're feeling by themselves? Should we focus more on the process rather than the results?
i think the same thing applies here. i always read pitchfork reviews of bands i like to hear them diss it because i find that academic breakdown entertaining and i like the music history they sprinkle into it. but i have to say that i have a very low hit ratio on their "best new music" list and kind of miss the "most read" widget they had that would show you what reviews were getting the most views. it probably has a lot to do with me not being that big on lyrics and more on something that just has a sound that hits the right place for some mood i'm having. that said their annual metal list is something i enjoy and usually find a lot of gems in probably because i'm too lazy to try and filter through all the metal that's out there.
the funniest thing about that site to me is that if a band like NIN or marilyn manson or even beck drops a new album it's sure to get a snooty, shitty review but in their new video series they've done mini docs on all these bands that are obviously the kinds of bands they usually hate. https://pitchfork.com/tv/56-liner-notes/
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isn't dismissing the idea of a critic dismissing a lot of the depth and craft of art and reducing everything to looking and feel? art critic, wine critic, film critic, etc... involves understanding a lot of history and craft and i think the general idea is liking to understand where things land in that spectrum without having to spend half your life
studying.
Just look at the thread title and what it implies: real art critic reviews skate art. Does being a skateboarder turn whatever you create into skate art? Is skate art unreal? I skate and play music... am I making skate music? Can a wine critic's opinion of a painting ever be recognized? I don't believe possessing knowledge on the history, movements, related artworks etc. makes anybody more qualified to assess the quality of a creative work.
I occasionally read Pitchfork reviews, some of which I've found entertaining/funny. I can agree that criticism is its own craft, but so is making an infomercial or building a guillotine. They rank amongst the lowest forms of creation to me.
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Pitchfork gave a not so good review of fucking Hejira -one of Joni Mitchells best if not best albums simply because they felt Jaco pastorius's bass playing is out of style now. They're idiots. If you reduce everything to "looking and feel" you're not really reducing too much. Yah it's cool to be filled in about the history but its mostly supports the art lie that some of this shit is worth a million imo.
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I like criticism - I think it's an essential part of making culture move in a direction. What I don't like is tastemaking. Tastemaking is just somebody telling you what they like and what they don't. A critique of something should always be made by someone who has an understanding of what they're criticizing. So let's take as an example the Jason Lee photography. She doesn't come to this as someone who is astonished by the idea of displaying the American landscape in black and white. She knows this isn't groundbreaking. What she does instead is telling us (the lesser-knowing) what type of art this is. i.e. the tradition that goes before this piece. And then (and this is where criticism takes place) she starts to focus on what it does and more specifically what it doesn't - that's the way Jews in Frankfurt formulated critique and it's extremely efficient. What it (the critique) does is that it opens up other ways for art to explore. It has nothing to do with whether or not the actual piece of art is good or bad, it has to do with art as something that are always engaging with society and why it's important to understand how and why it's engaging in its specific expressive state. The point is that good criticism can open up the artwork and make it important.
One who has always been good at doing this in skateboarding is our own Watson. One of his greater examples is when he criticized the idea of creativity in skateboarding as it can be seen right here http://youwillsoon.blogspot.dk/search?q=kyle+leeper This is critique that doesn't just say whether or not something is good. Instead it understands skating's history and criticizes whether or not something succeeds in its mission.
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Childress’ piece is a laughably shameless Basquiat ripoff.
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This critic is so full of their own shit I can feel it in my eyes when I read their words. Although, it's about what you'd expect from someone who writes for a magazine that's named after ejaculate yet claims an allegiance to feminism.
Way to go Jenkem, really pushing the fucking boundaries of expectation on this one for a second time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U)
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I did not know how to feel about art before she told me and now I agree
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this quote from legendary nyc graffiti writer Trike GND is very apropos to this topic, being that a lot of board graphic designers are graf dudes (cycle, sub, giant, etc.).
at 01:25:
http://youtu.be/hUEuXspLz-I?t=1m24s
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I thought it was gonna be board graphics but this is much more interesting. Also, Trump owns a Gonz? Is this true?
Yes, it's true. (https://robbrink.com/2016/08/14/mark-gonzales/) It was also mentioned in a 15 Things You Didn't Know article in Skateboarder but that was way before the current presidency.
I really disagree with her about Hsu's photo, I think that he captured a truly emotional candid photo and it makes me feel a sense of loss and also frustration and giving up.
Yeah, I feel the same way. I'd like to know if it was staged or not.
Plus her comments about Brian Lotti are accurate. He's amazing, I'd love to own an original Lotti painting.
Would like to see Jenkem keep this up.
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I don't believe possessing knowledge on the history, movements, related artworks etc. makes anybody more qualified to assess the quality of a creative work.
that's really odd to me. when it comes to art, sure you could say everything subjective, but really there's a lot more too it than that and what better thing to qualified an opinion than someone who has a deep knowledge of the history and craft and who's so into it that the self identify with that craft (art critic, skater, etc...).
do you not think asking for the top skate video parts of the year on slap would lead to better results than asking on some music or lifestyle forum? one opinion is way more qualified and willresult in a better set of parts. the other would just be a bunch of ty evans and richie jackson clips.
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I don't believe possessing knowledge on the history, movements, related artworks etc. makes anybody more qualified to assess the quality of a creative work.
that's really odd to me. when it comes to art, sure you could say everything subjective, but really there's a lot more too it than that and what better thing to qualified an opinion than someone who has a deep knowledge of the history and craft and who's so into it that the self identify with that craft (art critic, skater, etc...).
do you not think asking for the top skate video parts of the year on slap would lead to better results than asking on some music or lifestyle forum? one opinion is way more qualified and willresult in a better set of parts. the other would just be a bunch of ty evans and richie jackson clips.
yeah... i really hope he (soty) didn't mean half of what he's said here because idk wtf else he thinks could possibly make someone "qualified" to critique anything other than widespread knowledge of the very thing they're critiquing.
ok, i'll grant that maybe calling it "skate art" in the headline is misleading, but it's pretty damn clear the discussion is just about art by people who skateboard.
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that's the way Jews in Frankfurt formulated critique and it's extremely efficient.
subtle flex.
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that's the way Jews in Frankfurt formulated critique and it's extremely efficient.
subtle flex.
Oh I can see how this look.. I wasn't trying to be funny or anything - a lot of the great German thinkers were Jewish (and also had to escape the Nazis). It's quite important to have in the back of your mind if you want to read and understand someone like Theodor Adorno (one of the biggest philosophers of Frankfurt)
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I did not know how to feel about art before she told me and now I agree
+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art
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If you accidently take a photo that looks staged,(which Hsu's completely did) throw it out and if you do stage a photo -make sure you have some artistic sense and not artifice. I like Hsu as a personality and was surprised at the super corny photo (yes, before i read her critique) I wanted to hate her from the begining but she called it right.
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I don't believe possessing knowledge on the history, movements, related artworks etc. makes anybody more qualified to assess the quality of a creative work.
that's really odd to me. when it comes to art, sure you could say everything subjective, but really there's a lot more too it than that and what better thing to qualified an opinion than someone who has a deep knowledge of the history and craft and who's so into it that the self identify with that craft (art critic, skater, etc...).
do you not think asking for the top skate video parts of the year on slap would lead to better results than asking on some music or lifestyle forum? one opinion is way more qualified and willresult in a better set of parts. the other would just be a bunch of ty evans and richie jackson clips.
yeah... i really hope he (soty) didn't mean half of what he's said here because idk wtf else he thinks could possibly make someone "qualified" to critique anything other than widespread knowledge of the very thing they're critiquing.
ok, i'll grant that maybe calling it "skate art" in the headline is misleading, but it's pretty damn clear the discussion is just about art by people who skateboard.
SOTY just has terrible opinions. I think (hope) it's because he's Brazilian.
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SOTY just has terrible opinions.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/HQTTzAzrLtwFG/giphy.gif)
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ok, i'll grant that maybe calling it "skate art" in the headline is misleading, but it's pretty damn clear the discussion is just about art by people who skateboard.
Doesn't the fact that these people have a built in audience and platform for their work based on the profiles they have created within the skateboard industry succinctly created that label, though? If that doesn't qualify someone as a skateboard artist then what would you call it?
I wanted to hate her from the begining...
Why?
It seems like a few dudes had their feelings hurt by this article. I think the critic did a really good job writing about art for an readership which most likely isn't versed in art criticism.
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i went to art school that rewarded work with "deep meaning" and shit and i'm sick of it and just want to look at pretty things
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I thought it was gonna be board graphics but this is much more interesting. Also, Trump owns a Gonz? Is this true?
Yes, it's true. (https://robbrink.com/2016/08/14/mark-gonzales/) It was also mentioned in a 15 Things You Didn't Know article in Skateboarder but that was way before the current presidency.
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I really disagree with her about Hsu's photo, I think that he captured a truly emotional candid photo and it makes me feel a sense of loss and also frustration and giving up.
Yeah, I feel the same way. I'd like to know if it was staged or not.
Plus her comments about Brian Lotti are accurate. He's amazing, I'd love to own an original Lotti painting.
Would like to see Jenkem keep this up.
power of slap, can anyone verify this?
I realize it may seem demeaning or petty to have to justify his work, but I'd be curious to know. My personal suspicion is that it wasn't staged, and I hope it wasn't, but I can understand thinking it was, something about the shoes...
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The only thing worse then an “art critic “ is a gallery owner. The whole art world is a bullshit game.
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My hollywood conspiracy website says all big ticket art auctions are covers for sexual slavery or worse
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part 3 is up : http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/2018/04/23/real-art-critic-think-skate-art-round-3/
pretty funny how the Haroshi piece confused the hell out of her !
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These are wonderful. Hope Jenkem keeps this series going.
I never have and probably never will like anything Markovich does with a paintbrush. I've always found it tacky and corny. Glad I wasn't the only one who thought so.
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I love these! It was great to hear how someone outside of the skatecamp percieves Neckface.
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Chris "Intentionally Awkward Abstraction" Milic
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I think this shit is dumb as hell.
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I think this shit is dumb as hell.
why?
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I think this shit is dumb as hell.
why?
I don't need no middleman to tell me the psychology of why gonz drew a penis. She's pretty hot though. I'm just not a artschool type.
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I like criticism - I think it's an essential part of making culture move in a direction. What I don't like is tastemaking. Tastemaking is just somebody telling you what they like and what they don't. A critique of something should always be made by someone who has an understanding of what they're criticizing. So let's take as an example the Jason Lee photography. She doesn't come to this as someone who is astonished by the idea of displaying the American landscape in black and white. She knows this isn't groundbreaking. What she does instead is telling us (the lesser-knowing) what type of art this is. i.e. the tradition that goes before this piece. And then (and this is where criticism takes place) she starts to focus on what it does and more specifically what it doesn't - that's the way Jews in Frankfurt formulated critique and it's extremely efficient. What it (the critique) does is that it opens up other ways for art to explore. It has nothing to do with whether or not the actual piece of art is good or bad, it has to do with art as something that are always engaging with society and why it's important to understand how and why it's engaging in its specific expressive state. The point is that good criticism can open up the artwork and make it important.
One who has always been good at doing this in skateboarding is our own Watson. One of his greater examples is when he criticized the idea of creativity in skateboarding as it can be seen right here http://youwillsoon.blogspot.dk/search?q=kyle+leeper This is critique that doesn't just say whether or not something is good. Instead it understands skating's history and criticizes whether or not something succeeds in its mission.
Let me guess, you're one of those types of people that feels that everything creative in life is subjective and there isn't good and bad taste? Fuck ouuta here...
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I think this shit is dumb as hell.
why?
That tells me you don't really understand art on a conceptual level. You don't need to know anything about anybody to interpret their artwork, but it makes for a better critique if you have insight into the context in which that art was made. You don't need to agree with her statements, but if you listened to what she has to say instead of dismissing it offhand because you lack comprehension, you can learn something that will inform a well rounded argument as oppose to "this is dumb."
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I think this shit is dumb as hell.
why?
That tells me you don't really understand art on a conceptual level. You don't need to know anything about anybody to interpret their artwork, but it makes for a better critique if you have insight into the context in which that art was made. You don't need to agree with her statements, but if you listened to what she has to say instead of dismissing it offhand because you lack comprehension, you can learn something that will inform a well rounded argument as oppose to "this is dumb."
So, your critiquing me now aren't you? Critiquing must be contagious among assholes. Your critique of me was all over the place and incorrect. Bunch a mumbo jumbo.
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just admit you don't know why gonz drew a penis you goddamn miscreant
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I think this shit is dumb as hell.
why?
That tells me you don't really understand art on a conceptual level. You don't need to know anything about anybody to interpret their artwork, but it makes for a better critique if you have insight into the context in which that art was made. You don't need to agree with her statements, but if you listened to what she has to say instead of dismissing it offhand because you lack comprehension, you can learn something that will inform a well rounded argument as oppose to "this is dumb."
The nerve of someone on SLAP critiquing someone...
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I'd give this song a 7.4/10 rating. Contextually speaking Todd was high when he wrote it. His brother skated I think so there's that.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jI_oBXzLNmw
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Really like Glen Fox's piece. He clearly has a lot of talent.
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Let me guess, you're one of those types of people that feels that everything creative in life is subjective and there isn't good and bad taste? Fuck ouuta here...
No - It is just that one person's opinion is the least interesting part of critique.
But if you want to know, how I feel about art, then I follow the definition made by Gilles Deleuze and Félix Guattari, in which art is sensuous beings derived from the material. This means that art is so much more than just a craft made for pleasing one. Instead it is one of the minds three modes of thoughts (the other two are philosophy and logical science), which we use to dissect the chaotic world we live in, so that we can grasp it.
If you are interested in reading their full argument then it is the 7th chapter in this book https://transversalinflections.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/deleuze-3207-what_is_philosophy-fenomenologie-van-schilderkunst.pdf However, if you just want to make presumptions about me, then please continue.
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If you reduce everything to "looking and feel" you're not really reducing too much.
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I really like these series! For me skateboarding and art/creativeness go hand in hand.
I wonder how someone with background on both art and skateboarding feels about this series and about the art in question.. Maybe feedbackTed could chime in on some of these..
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Really like Glen Fox's piece. He clearly has a lot of talent.
Seriously? Shit's obviously sped up
On another note, maybe curating 3 successful group shows complete with professional art critics and a large audience gives jenkem gallery status in this day and age?