Author Topic: Geoff Rowley on Palace?  (Read 8183 times)

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Gay Imp Sausage Metal

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Re: Geoff Rowley on Palace?
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2018, 06:36:06 AM »
Apex predators should not have to justify their diets or debate the morality of their choices. If you want to be a better version of yourself that's on you. Killing flies and assigning human personality traits to other animals? You're making this too easy.
I know vegans are a pet peeve of yours mate and that’s fine, we all got our beefs (*inserts pun*).
I’ve said all I really want to say about the topic but a) as humans we debate the morality of our (food) choices all the time - and even people in the non-vegan camp would and do argue that it’s “wrong” for Japanese to eat whales and dolphins and that the dog eating festival in China is disgusting.
And b) apex predator is a stretch at best:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/where-do-humans-really-rank-on-the-food-chain-180948053/
Even if we were truly apex though, the fact that you are “superior” to something or someone doesn’t mean you can just blindly kill and torture it without question/ justification ... unless of course you’re Hitler and we all know what happened to Jason Jesse.
Anyway mate, I don’t want to drag this on further because I’m the vegan Gipper and I respect you as poster so we’ll just have to agree to disagree here.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 07:00:55 AM by Gay Imp Sausage Metal »

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SodaJerk

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Re: Geoff Rowley on Palace?
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2018, 11:15:12 AM »
Apex predators should not have to justify their diets or debate the morality of their choices. If you want to be a better version of yourself that's on you. Killing flies and assigning human personality traits to other animals? You're making this too easy.
I know vegans are a pet peeve of yours mate and that’s fine, we all got our beefs (*inserts pun*).
I’ve said all I really want to say about the topic but a) as humans we debate the morality of our (food) choices all the time - and even people in the non-vegan camp would and do argue that it’s “wrong” for Japanese to eat whales and dolphins and that the dog eating festival in China is disgusting.
And b) apex predator is a stretch at best:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/where-do-humans-really-rank-on-the-food-chain-180948053/
Even if we were truly apex though, the fact that you are “superior” to something or someone doesn’t mean you can just blindly kill and torture it without question/ justification ... unless of course you’re Hitler and we all know what happened to Jason Jesse.
Anyway mate, I don’t want to drag this on further because I’m the vegan Gipper and I respect you as poster so we’ll just have to agree to disagree here.
Vegans are definitely not a pet peeve of mine. I think everyone should have the right to decide for themselves and I respect anyone that has taken enough time to reason why or why not to eat what they choose. I don't even care when they decide to broadcast their opinions and I'm open to discussion about it.

My point was that people feeling the need to justify it to anyone else but themselves and to assign a moral code to it is not necessary. Factory farming undoubtedly causes more suffering than a quick kill hunter. Ethical farming relieves some of that suffering. Industrial large scale plant farming has its own consequences and fall out.

I have enough money to choose to eat more "ethically" than other people and I do so. I'm also interested in hunting, fishing and foraging as well as reducing my environmental footprint.

If you read between the lines I was illustrating that some posters were making it way too easy for you to shoot down their morals and ethics. Killing insects vs killing a wild animal? That's some elementary ass argument. Believing or assigning human personality traits to certain animals is a human construct. A dog will eat it's dead master if locked in the house with their corpse for long enough no matter how much they loved each other. I'm actually supporting some of your views.

I get the apex predator ranking but if you think that the species that can kill every other spicies at will and via a drone strike from a comfy computer chair doesn't trump everything else that's a different thread.

You or anyone else that chooses a different path than me does not peeve me what so ever.

Cherb

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Re: Geoff Rowley on Palace?
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2018, 11:55:05 AM »
I'll elaborate - when I held the knife, the handle didn't feel like solid plastic. It felt hollow.
I don't know much about knives but it looked like shit and it felt like shit in my hand.

He makes tat for Rowley fans who like camping.

Specifically - knives with plastic handles.
Just going to go out on a limb here and say that 75-90% of expensive knives use "plastic" handles whether its G10 or micarta. It's far from "plastic". That being said his company is still way over priced and they don't even tell you what kind of steel they use for the blades most the time.
G10 + titanium frame is going to make a knife feel very hollow. That handle design is garbage though. Like I said, the shit is definitely overpriced. And if you're spending that kind of money on a blade they should tell you what kind of steel you're working with (that seems to only be a problem on their more two more expensive folding knives). But the products definitely aren't bad quality.

Deekay

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Re: Geoff Rowley on Palace?
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2018, 03:42:24 PM »
everything we do as a society kills animals not just our food production and by participating on any level there is blood on your hands too. somewhere up the chain your reasoning will also be faulty unless you are literally living in the wilderness and sprinkling DDT on you to keep the insects from bitting.

Betaphenylethylalamine post shown an awareness, diplomacy and reasonable approach to the issue that is completely lacking in your response which is idealistic, impractical and kind of dickish.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that point, the difference here is that (and this is true in the case of humans too) intentionally killing something/someone vs. accidentally killing something are two totally different concepts/ actions.

Also, do not bring insects or appeals to futility into this debate; the definition of veganism has never stated anything about insects, nor does it state anywhere that there will ever be a way to 100% eliminate cruelty to sentient beings.

I don't mind that Betaphenylethylalamine hunts ttytt, I just said his justifications were poor at best. If you're going to use nature and "ancestors" as reason for an action, then I think you are being intellectually dishonest.


I still eat meat and have a hard time substituting it for plant-based food as I have alot of allergies (I have tried many times and haven't found a solution). However, I'd like to raise a few questions/points for someone who's well read on veganism as I'm not sure I would be vegan even if I could: 
Allergies in your case would be a perfectly reasonable justification (unlike "ancestors").
What do you need to avoid though? You know there are soy/ nut free vegans yeah?

- Couldn't you say eating meat is the most natural thing in the world? Look how all of the animal kingdom that require everything meat has to offer feed themselves - they hunt and they eat meat. Avoiding meat makes for going out of your way to get everything the body needs just "to work" and research shows it's often not enough in which they have to turn to modern science and pills/shows to get vitamins etc. It's selfish to say, but we are on the top of the food chain and it all seems sort of natural - although I'm not saying that is what makes it right or okay.
Please avoid appeals to nature fallacies, every carnivore and their mum loves to use them and this is why this whole debate started. Just because something is "natural", does not make it right and/ or good (see someone mentioning polio in the vaccines thread; yes, it's natural as are lots of diseases, doesn't make it good or right though). Sitting on a computer isn't natural, owning a cell phone isn't natural but we still do these things regardless.

Animals eat meat so I should eat meat argument - well animals also do heaps of fucked up things that you WOULDN'T do so please don't use them as a moral compass. Animals also hunt out of necessity; it's not like they can just go to the super market and pick up a plethora of cruelty-free based options. This is also why I have no problem with eskimos hunting and eating animals/ wearing fur, they literally don't have any other options based on their geographical location.

But vitamins argument - Yes, I take b12 supplements, guess what? So do you in the form of your beef getting injected with b12 shots because it's no longer abundant in nature. 2/5 of the American population is also borderline b12 deficient BUT 2/5 of the US isn't vegan. #gofigure
Sup-ing vitamins in this day and age is pretty much unavoidable so let's not make it a strictly vegan issue.

- I know captivated animals suffer in various degrees, but say someone hunts like Betaphenylethylalamine - do animals really care? The only research I've found is that cows, for example, "may be able to feel shyness or fear". Would they be able to tell if their sibling got shot - would they feel bad about it like a human would? Most research I've found show that they probably do not, and that is why the "rape argument" isn't really valid. Most meat-eaters would agree that eating a dog is fucked as they have a deeper sense of emotion and are able to actually think deeper than instant emotions. The meat industry is a whole other point, and that is why I try to get my meat at the best places possible. 
meat eaters on cognitive dissonance then no?
Go to a dairy farm and watch the young cows get separated from their mothers, hell just look up some footage of it. Animals communicate, love, exist as communities, crave acceptance, operate as families and do many other things that I don't think we can even fathom at this point in time. But even if they couldn't, does that mean you should inflict cruelty on them based on this fact? This rabbit hole will take you into the whole "name the trait" debate which is basically where you justify the ethics of an action to an animal because of X

X = level of intelligence
"Cows are stupid so it's okay to torture them and steal their children from them while they are still breastfeeding"
Yes, well mentally retarded people are also not intelligent when compared to you, so are you going to string them up too now?

X = social contract/ level of emotional involvement
"Well, dogs are mans best friend and I personally have a dog that I love so I could never eat"
I'm from China so fuck your dog because a) I've never met it and b) Dog bacon is amazing
Also I have a pet pig that I have a strong connection too so you shouldn't eat him :o

X = different species/ biology
"Pigs and humans aren't even the same species so fuck them"
If gorillas came and started eating us tomorrow, personally I would just lie down and let them do so because you know, we're a different species n' shit and that totally justifies their behavior.

edit #643:
Would you kill a fly - have you? Is the fly not a creature? Are you sure of it's level of intelligence or anything else really?
what is it with you guys and bugs? Flys do not have a central nervous system/ cannot feel pain. If science proves me wrong, I'll rethink my stance on them.
Flies feel pain so I'm going to eat steak though is not a logical justification here. You're bordering on the whole "but plants have feelings" discussion which is absolutely a ridiculous argument to have.

I don't really have energy for a long response so I'll be somewhat quick, but I just wanted to thank you for a good post with alot of valid points.

About the allergy, I know there are nut and soy free vegan alternatives but it isn't quite easy as that. I have a super strict diet and mainly have to avoid certain sugars, but alot of the times I have to test a bunch of stuff and see what works. I feel like I've tried every seed available but nothing works. I tried vegan alternatives for 8 months straight but I ended up just living on potatoes and carrots (with occasional pill-eating, but they also made me feel like shit) which led to a 10 day streak of b12 shots in the asscheek every morning at the hospital, I got really fucked up vitamin-wise.

However, I'm not completely sure I'd be 100% vegan even if I could (although I would certainly eat less meat). I know justifying meat-eating with saying that cows are stupid isn't a great reason, but it's the same as the bug one and I guess I draw my line after the cows... for now. If the excuse for killing different kinds of bugs are just that they can't feel pain, what about instant death with no suffering - would that be considered ok for a cow or another bigger animal? As iiiin.. hunting.

(This is purely for discussion purposes and not my personal opinion)
If a moose's family won't miss him when he gets painlessly shot and then eaten - what difference does it make from a completely objective standpoint? Is it just a matter of morals?
 





Deekay

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Re: Geoff Rowley on Palace?
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2018, 03:48:02 PM »
Didn’t he say he was going to start his own board company like 3 years ago?

To get back on topic, read the caption:



I guess he's not retiring?

Gay Imp Sausage Metal

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Re: Geoff Rowley on Palace?
« Reply #65 on: September 02, 2018, 07:13:15 PM »
Vegans are definitely not a pet peeve of mine. I think everyone should have the right to decide for themselves and I respect anyone that has taken enough time to reason why or why not to eat what they choose. I don't even care when they decide to broadcast their opinions and I'm open to discussion about it.
My point was that people feeling the need to justify it to anyone else but themselves and to assign a moral code to it is not necessary. Factory farming undoubtedly causes more suffering than a quick kill hunter. Ethical farming relieves some of that suffering. Industrial large scale plant farming has its own consequences and fall out.
I have enough money to choose to eat more "ethically" than other people and I do so. I'm also interested in hunting, fishing and foraging as well as reducing my environmental footprint.
ok, all good, my bad
*internet high five to one of my fav Aussie posters on here*


but if you think that the species that can kill every other spicies at will and via a drone strike from a comfy computer chair doesn't trump everything else that's a different thread.
any idea where I can order one of these drone strikes? I'm thinking of taking out Geoff to preserve the mountain lion populations stateside  ;D

"This is untrue, my client has not been attacked in every country" #yearoftheeagle

Gay Imp Sausage Metal

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Re: Geoff Rowley on Palace?
« Reply #66 on: September 02, 2018, 07:48:51 PM »
I don't really have energy for a long response so I'll be somewhat quick, but I just wanted to thank you for a good post with alot of valid points.

About the allergy, I know there are nut and soy free vegan alternatives but it isn't quite easy as that. I have a super strict diet and mainly have to avoid certain sugars, but alot of the times I have to test a bunch of stuff and see what works. I feel like I've tried every seed available but nothing works. I tried vegan alternatives for 8 months straight but I ended up just living on potatoes and carrots (with occasional pill-eating, but they also made me feel like shit) which led to a 10 day streak of b12 shots in the asscheek every morning at the hospital, I got really fucked up vitamin-wise.

However, I'm not completely sure I'd be 100% vegan even if I could (although I would certainly eat less meat). I know justifying meat-eating with saying that cows are stupid isn't a great reason, but it's the same as the bug one and I guess I draw my line after the cows... for now. If the excuse for killing different kinds of bugs are just that they can't feel pain, what about instant death with no suffering - would that be considered ok for a cow or another bigger animal? As iiiin.. hunting.

(This is purely for discussion purposes and not my personal opinion)
If a moose's family won't miss him when he gets painlessly shot and then eaten - what difference does it make from a completely objective standpoint? Is it just a matter of morals?
All good, I realize my response was a huge fucking wall of text and probably not the most easy one to respond to.
okay, your experience sounds like a fucked up one and while I harp on about animals, defs put your own health above them. If I had a condition where I absolutely had to consume animal products to survive, I'd fuck up a cow real quick!

insta death = no suffering - sure, I had this debate with Moe on hear way back and he said, "what's better: straight bolt gun to the head vs. breaking a cows legs and then boiling it alive?" and yeah, in that situation of course you want to cause as little "suffering" as possible which was also highlighted in Soda Jerk's post; he's in a situation where has has enough $$$ to chose the more ethical options. The majority of meat and dairy we see on shelves though doesn't come from that world and I think both you and I know that. The suffering debate comes up with Halal too and they justify it by saying "well we use a big fuck off sharp knife to to sever the main arteries nice and quick so there's no pain/ suffering". Yes ... but do know what would cause even less pain? NOT actually killing the animal in the first place.

I guess this comes to individual's will to live, and while I'm not sure if science has proven it yet, I'm guessing most living/ sentient creatures possess this trait? Like you're not just going to let some murder you as long as they promise to make and quick and "ethical". Obviously, you'd like a pain-free death, but before that not dying would obviously be the most desired outcome in that situation no?

I guess that links into your moose hypthotecial too. Okay, say science can prove that Moose's family won't miss him and you give him the cleanest death possible, then what's the objective problem right? Sure, from certain standpoints you could justify it  (certainly not from the moose's standpoint though) but then you get into a grey area of who decides when it is/ isn't okay to take the life of another sentient being.
I don't want to get too out there with the whole name the trait thing either, but usually it's a test of whether that action could be justified in the case of humans too. So say some aliens (okay, this is out there) fly down to earth and their scientists deduce that you have no family and that if they kill you quickly and painlessly you won't suffer anyway. Would you accept their justification in this case? If you say no and many people would, that's fine but it shows that there is a logical inconsistency between your actions and your way of thinking.

Okay, I'm talking about aliens and shit now so I think I better sign off...

***
From a purely skating point of view, it will be interesting to see where Geoff ends up; he was an integral part of Flip ever since they moved to the US and any other company that was going to pounce on him probably should have done so by now. Historically, I guess him and Ed would make sense but Ed only gave him a guest board so idk
Who else would want him? FA? I couldn't see him and Dill getting on for some reason.
Also, whatever happened to the board company he was going to start?

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Brown Thunder

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Re: Geoff Rowley on Palace?
« Reply #67 on: September 03, 2018, 02:43:02 AM »
I am a big fan of bacon sandwiches

I have no opinion on Geoff Rowley being on Palace