Author Topic: ACL  (Read 41189 times)

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h@rry_t3H_pImP

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Re: ACL
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2007, 11:28:04 AM »
h@rry_t3H_pImP,

I KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND I KNOW WHAT YOU DID LAST SUMMER!

Nah dikkhead it was last winter ;)

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hatehatehatehate

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Re: ACL
« Reply #61 on: July 30, 2007, 04:46:58 PM »
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i guess my ACL's fully torn and my Meniscus is torn vertically. I have a surgery on August 8th.

I'm wondering though, I told the doctor I wanted the ligament from a cadaver or whatever, thats the better choice right? I thought thats what you guys agreed on on here but I'm not sure.
[close]

Good luck, dude.

good looks mikey! i'll let you know how it goes after the surg. mad computer time ahaha... fucking shit.

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Re: ACL
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2007, 07:01:45 PM »
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i guess my ACL's fully torn and my Meniscus is torn vertically. I have a surgery on August 8th.

I'm wondering though, I told the doctor I wanted the ligament from a cadaver or whatever, thats the better choice right? I thought thats what you guys agreed on on here but I'm not sure.
[close]

The meniscus I am not sure about, but my vote is for a hamstring graft. From what I understand cadaver grafts do not come back as strong as a hamstring graft, the upside is that yes, you'll be out and about quicker, but it doesn't per se heal faster; it's just that the quadricep doesn't need as much attention during the rehab process. With a hamstring graft the rehab takes a longer time but if your minds right and your doing what you gotta do it will be stronger overall(stronger than before even). Also, there is a slight risk of infection with a cadaver graft, but it's negligible(like 1 in 1,000,000). So basically your choices are be on your feet and skating in 3-6 months(cadaver, quicker recovery, moderate ACL strength) or in 6-8 months(hamstring, stronger ACL overall, tendons not restored fully for 1yr)
Choose your poison.

h

Not backing what 'harry the pimp's' saying.
Unfortunutely, I've spent a lot of time dealing with this stuff and if the hamstring and the cadaver ligament (achilles tendon) are both done right the caver ligament patient will return to sport faster. (based on the simple fact that there is no trauma from the harvested hamstring) And again if done right, the cadaver is stronger than the hamstring due to the fact that the achilles is the strongest ligament in the body.

"success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts"

Stand and Deliver

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Re: ACL
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2007, 09:08:25 PM »
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i guess my ACL's fully torn and my Meniscus is torn vertically. I have a surgery on August 8th.

I'm wondering though, I told the doctor I wanted the ligament from a cadaver or whatever, thats the better choice right? I thought thats what you guys agreed on on here but I'm not sure.
[close]

Good luck, dude.
[close]

good looks mikey! i'll let you know how it goes after the surg. mad computer time ahaha... fucking shit.

Yo man, for what it's worth, I dug your footage in the Atmosphere video.

h@rry_t3H_pImP

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Re: ACL
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2007, 03:09:51 PM »
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i guess my ACL's fully torn and my Meniscus is torn vertically. I have a surgery on August 8th.

I'm wondering though, I told the doctor I wanted the ligament from a cadaver or whatever, thats the better choice right? I thought thats what you guys agreed on on here but I'm not sure.
[close]

The meniscus I am not sure about, but my vote is for a hamstring graft. From what I understand cadaver grafts do not come back as strong as a hamstring graft, the upside is that yes, you'll be out and about quicker, but it doesn't per se heal faster; it's just that the quadricep doesn't need as much attention during the rehab process. With a hamstring graft the rehab takes a longer time but if your minds right and your doing what you gotta do it will be stronger overall(stronger than before even). Also, there is a slight risk of infection with a cadaver graft, but it's negligible(like 1 in 1,000,000). So basically your choices are be on your feet and skating in 3-6 months(cadaver, quicker recovery, moderate ACL strength) or in 6-8 months(hamstring, stronger ACL overall, tendons not restored fully for 1yr)
Choose your poison.

h
[close]

Not backing what 'harry the pimp's' saying.
Unfortunutely, I've spent a lot of time dealing with this stuff and if the hamstring and the cadaver ligament (achilles tendon) are both done right the caver ligament patient will return to sport faster. (based on the simple fact that there is no trauma from the harvested hamstring) And again if done right, the cadaver is stronger than the hamstring due to the fact that the achilles is the strongest ligament in the body.



I ain't a doctor homey but...this was told to me by the the best orthopedic sports surgeon in NYC(literally)...what I did not know was that the achilles tendon is used in cadaver grafts so that does add merit to that approach(cadaver), had I known this I might have considered that option more than I did.
All the same, if you've gone through this 2x(God bless you...)any input would be greatly appreciated as to some excercise(s) or stuff that you did to help your recovery along; sharing is caring ;)

h

hatehatehatehate

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Re: ACL
« Reply #65 on: July 31, 2007, 03:44:54 PM »
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i guess my ACL's fully torn and my Meniscus is torn vertically. I have a surgery on August 8th.

I'm wondering though, I told the doctor I wanted the ligament from a cadaver or whatever, thats the better choice right? I thought thats what you guys agreed on on here but I'm not sure.
[close]

Good luck, dude.
[close]

good looks mikey! i'll let you know how it goes after the surg. mad computer time ahaha... fucking shit.
[close]

Yo man, for what it's worth, I dug your footage in the Atmosphere video.

hell yeah man! i'm glad you liked it. i wish berry had more shit. would've been nice to have. anyways i'm glad you liked it. yeah son!!
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 03:00:49 AM by hatehatehatehate »

I SUCK!

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Re: ACL
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2007, 10:23:07 PM »
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i guess my ACL's fully torn and my Meniscus is torn vertically. I have a surgery on August 8th.

I'm wondering though, I told the doctor I wanted the ligament from a cadaver or whatever, thats the better choice right? I thought thats what you guys agreed on on here but I'm not sure.
[close]

The meniscus I am not sure about, but my vote is for a hamstring graft. From what I understand cadaver grafts do not come back as strong as a hamstring graft, the upside is that yes, you'll be out and about quicker, but it doesn't per se heal faster; it's just that the quadricep doesn't need as much attention during the rehab process. With a hamstring graft the rehab takes a longer time but if your minds right and your doing what you gotta do it will be stronger overall(stronger than before even). Also, there is a slight risk of infection with a cadaver graft, but it's negligible(like 1 in 1,000,000). So basically your choices are be on your feet and skating in 3-6 months(cadaver, quicker recovery, moderate ACL strength) or in 6-8 months(hamstring, stronger ACL overall, tendons not restored fully for 1yr)
Choose your poison.

h
[close]

Not backing what 'harry the pimp's' saying.
Unfortunutely, I've spent a lot of time dealing with this stuff and if the hamstring and the cadaver ligament (achilles tendon) are both done right the caver ligament patient will return to sport faster. (based on the simple fact that there is no trauma from the harvested hamstring) And again if done right, the cadaver is stronger than the hamstring due to the fact that the achilles is the strongest ligament in the body.


[close]

I ain't a doctor homey but...this was told to me by the the best orthopedic sports surgeon in NYC(literally)...what I did not know was that the achilles tendon is used in cadaver grafts so that does add merit to that approach(cadaver), had I known this I might have considered that option more than I did.
All the same, if you've gone through this 2x(God bless you...)any input would be greatly appreciated as to some excercise(s) or stuff that you did to help your recovery along; sharing is caring ;)

h

I've found that all doctors have their specialties and their opinions, so if you definitely want to use a certain doctor, it's safest to go with what they suggest, cause that's what they'll do best. Regarding exercises, the first few pages have all the exercises and advice you could want. They're all consistent with what I've experienced. Let me know if I can help beyond that.
Peace.

 
"success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts"

h@rry_t3H_pImP

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Re: ACL
« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2007, 08:19:03 AM »
Expand Quote
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Expand Quote
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i guess my ACL's fully torn and my Meniscus is torn vertically. I have a surgery on August 8th.

I'm wondering though, I told the doctor I wanted the ligament from a cadaver or whatever, thats the better choice right? I thought thats what you guys agreed on on here but I'm not sure.
[close]

The meniscus I am not sure about, but my vote is for a hamstring graft. From what I understand cadaver grafts do not come back as strong as a hamstring graft, the upside is that yes, you'll be out and about quicker, but it doesn't per se heal faster; it's just that the quadricep doesn't need as much attention during the rehab process. With a hamstring graft the rehab takes a longer time but if your minds right and your doing what you gotta do it will be stronger overall(stronger than before even). Also, there is a slight risk of infection with a cadaver graft, but it's negligible(like 1 in 1,000,000). So basically your choices are be on your feet and skating in 3-6 months(cadaver, quicker recovery, moderate ACL strength) or in 6-8 months(hamstring, stronger ACL overall, tendons not restored fully for 1yr)
Choose your poison.

h
[close]

Not backing what 'harry the pimp's' saying.
Unfortunutely, I've spent a lot of time dealing with this stuff and if the hamstring and the cadaver ligament (achilles tendon) are both done right the caver ligament patient will return to sport faster. (based on the simple fact that there is no trauma from the harvested hamstring) And again if done right, the cadaver is stronger than the hamstring due to the fact that the achilles is the strongest ligament in the body.


[close]

I ain't a doctor homey but...this was told to me by the the best orthopedic sports surgeon in NYC(literally)...what I did not know was that the achilles tendon is used in cadaver grafts so that does add merit to that approach(cadaver), had I known this I might have considered that option more than I did.
All the same, if you've gone through this 2x(God bless you...)any input would be greatly appreciated as to some excercise(s) or stuff that you did to help your recovery along; sharing is caring ;)

h
[close]

I've found that all doctors have their specialties and their opinions, so if you definitely want to use a certain doctor, it's safest to go with what they suggest, cause that's what they'll do best. Regarding exercises, the first few pages have all the exercises and advice you could want. They're all consistent with what I've experienced. Let me know if I can help beyond that.
Peace.

 

Thanks fam.

h

Bubblegum Tate

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Re: ACL
« Reply #68 on: August 01, 2007, 09:35:09 AM »
I got my surgery one year ago today. new ligamnet & cartlidge im skating fine but a bit hesitant on some tricks.
Ethan Bubblegum Tate - Captain of the Harlem Globetrotters, lecturer of Physics at Globetrotter University.
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greg

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Re: ACL
« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2007, 10:49:40 AM »
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Actually went skating around the hood yesterday evening for the first time in 16 weeks since the surgery.  I just did some ollies and pushed around.  I'm not heading to El Toro anytime soon that's for fuckin' sure.  It felt fuckin' great being back on my board.
[close]

not trying to discourage  you but chiiiiiiiiiil dude. Skating will only be fun and you'll think, "oh it doesn't hurt, I'll push it a little harder today". Not a good idea. I'd hit the bike up  and do hecka exercises to strengthen it up. You don't want this to linger and if you do the right things now it won't ever be an issue again.

no fucking shit, this is the truth- i'm sure that my choice to go and skate around while it was still swollen and not fully healed from surgery was a big factor in needing a 2nd and now a 3rd surgery. 

fuck what JT says about "doing whatever you have to in moderation", what you have to do is heal the fuck up and getting out on your skateboard isn't going to help that.  what a terrible fucking piece of advice, "chief", seriously...

greg

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Re: ACL
« Reply #70 on: August 01, 2007, 10:51:13 AM »
this topic is seriously bumming me out though, i've been putting this 3rd surgery off way too long.  it's fucking time to do it again, hell, it's been time...i guess maybe this winter once i get a new HMO.  fuck. 

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Re: ACL
« Reply #71 on: August 01, 2007, 11:42:53 AM »
the more i think about it, the more shocked and dismayed i am at JT's remarks about getting on the board before a knee surgery has healed.  that's just absurd and ridiculous, whether just cruising or actually doing little ollies or tricks, it's a fucking recipe for disaster.  a million things can happen to make you have to step off or onto your board a little funny and that's all it takes to tweak it and blow it back up again.  and i don't want to hear that "whatever's good for your sanity" bullshit because although it's tough as hell to stay off a board for 6-12 months, the consequences of pushing the limit too far is just plain devastating- i mean, look at me.  i'm about to be 3 deep in operations and i'm more of a jaded, cynical prick bastard with every passing month of limited skating and the pain i feel as a result. 

it's just fucking stupid, that's all it boils down to.  needing to get back on the board for "motivation" to make it through strengthening exercises and all the PT is pure horseshit, your motivation should be the same from the start- to heal up completely and get back to skating the same or better than you were when you got hurt. 

i feel very strongly about this because i know i'm right.  and i don't want anybody else to go through th same shit i went through, all due to being a dumbass like i was and like JT advises.

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Re: ACL
« Reply #72 on: August 01, 2007, 10:24:49 PM »
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Actually went skating around the hood yesterday evening for the first time in 16 weeks since the surgery.  I just did some ollies and pushed around.  I'm not heading to El Toro anytime soon that's for fuckin' sure.  It felt fuckin' great being back on my board.
[close]

not trying to discourage  you but chiiiiiiiiiil dude. Skating will only be fun and you'll think, "oh it doesn't hurt, I'll push it a little harder today". Not a good idea. I'd hit the bike up  and do hecka exercises to strengthen it up. You don't want this to linger and if you do the right things now it won't ever be an issue again.
[close]

no fucking shit, this is the truth- i'm sure that my choice to go and skate around while it was still swollen and not fully healed from surgery was a big factor in needing a 2nd and now a 3rd surgery. 

fuck what JT says about "doing whatever you have to in moderation", what you have to do is heal the fuck up and getting out on your skateboard isn't going to help that.  what a terrible fucking piece of advice, "chief", seriously...

I've been there and had 4 knee surgeries as well, I was talking about a stroll down the street to keep your spirits up, not jumping down stairs. And yeah, after it's not swelling with exercise, skating in moderation can help you. It all depends on what type of skating you do. I'm not talking about a few months out, but pumping around a skatepark at 5 or 6 months after a surgery that's recovering properly is good for your muscle response, where as jumping down stuff is like smoking dynamite. Some trainers even work this stuff into the exercise routine with pros after 4 and a 1/2 months.
"success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts"

bornindabay

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Re: ACL
« Reply #73 on: August 01, 2007, 11:11:43 PM »
I disagree with half of what Sanch said on this one. I'd do wahtever you have to in moderation to keep your sanity. Sometimes a stroll can give you the inspiration you need to keep fighting those exercises.

Yeah but moderation in skating? Is it possible? I can't picture myself stopping an hour in and going "ok guys, gotta rest up the knee." I think hobbies will make time fly a little quicker. Not to sound like a coach but I think the nature of skating is just too unpredictable. One bad move and you could be done. If it's an ankle it's no biggie but a knee is something more serious, and does take  a heck of a lot longer to heal. I saw some footage of York re-messing up his knee and it almost brought a tear to my eye to see that.

This is just my advise. I rarely in the past listened to what doctors said regarding how long to stay down but with the knee it's kind of in it's own class next  to your cock and balls. Then again, you'd know more than me on the subject. Maybe it's just my fear of the acl injury.

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Re: ACL
« Reply #74 on: August 02, 2007, 01:44:55 AM »
I think there are nuggets of truth in all the comments above to be honest.

The absolute key is to speak to your physio about what is happening, be frank and lay it all on the line - they will give you good advise about when it is safe to step back on a board.

My experience was pretty bad: I ruptured my ACL, tore my PCL and the cartiledge; the good old English health service spent a while trying to convince me there was no point having operations at all ("you won't be able to run, but we think you should take that route") but I refused to accept that and took private advice.All in all it took 2 years to have all the ops I needed to fix things, and then another year to heal enough to consider skating - the healing took longer because I had a lot done and because it had taken them so long to operate in the first place.

I found it quite traumatising - woke up in cold sweats from dreaming about doing it for a few months afterwards, and really had to think about things and take the decision that my long-term health was the most important thing: I want to be mobile when I'm old basically and that is more important than skating. But I defintiely took the view that I could not let it break me - that it was a random freak accident and unlikely to happen again if I wasn't stupid: once I'd been assured and re-assured by the physio that I would be able to skate again I forced myself to overcome my fears etc - I think I had to really, or risk being miserable and pretty inactive for the rest of my life - whereas now I live a totally normal, active life.

But the physio did say it would be ok to roll - just roll - a few months after the op. The main problem with me was phsychological - I was scared it would go again and that held me back a lot for a while which, in retrospect, was a good thing. I have to admit, like Sanch refers to, I got really frustrated not trying tricks etc and seeing everyone else skating normally, and found it easier to step away from all that until I could actually try to ollie etc (well nollie in my case for the first bit, as that put all the pressure on my good leg)

The other key is to be sensible about it and listen to your body very carefuly. I stepped things up very gradually - I didn't try any flip tricks for months because landing on an uneven surface with a healing knee is not a good move - and there's no way that would not have happened if I'd tried them. I didn't try block tricks or things like that either - not because I didn;t think I could do them, but because I didn't think I could handle the bails. It really is all about how you can handle *not* making the tricks - if you can't handle running properly or slipping out from something, then don't try things that involve that risk until you can handle it..

I found transition easier to skate at first - which seemed a bit weird as I was a street rat - because it is less hard physically; you can just slappy around and not put your body through the stress of ollieing etc. But again you should only skate a ramp if you can handle running out on a transition (and again running downhill is a frequent cause of ACL injuries due to hyperextensions etc, so be wise about it) - even when I could handle running I found myself just throwing myself onto random bits of my body to avoid runnign out: it was good comedy for anyone who skated with me!!

At the end of it, if you have good friends then they will laugh with you as you recover and that will take a lot of the stress out of it!

It is so easy to become jaded and bitter - I mean one minute you're used to skating all the time, being physically active and not even questioning it, the next you're practically housebound and unable to do even the basics: when I first started leaving the house it would take me 2 hours to make it to the video shop 100m away from my front door, and that is hard to handle.

I think the key there is to have, or develop, other interests or hobbies. I love writing (er hence the length of this post) and so wrote loads of stories etc as well as doing other random things (I did a few sensible things with my life like getting a house, which took up most of my time) - I swear it would have been worryingly easy to sit on the couch and just drink all day long to relieve the boredome: it was a bit of a scary insight into how easy it could be to just let go...

The good side though is that, if you are patient and see it all through then all will be well - my knee feels totally fine now and has done for quite some time (at this point it is two years since I started to do stuff again) and all hesitation has pretty much gone as I've proved to myself over time that it won't just randomly go again. I've got a refreshed perspective on skating and enjoy it so much now just because it so nearly got taken away from me - the only thing I don't skate is big drops as, frankly, I'm not paid to do that and have no motivation to risk hurting myself again - don;t let it get you down and all will definitely be well again!

I remember so clearly how I felt at the time; frustrated, scared I'd have a recurring injury, worried my life as I knew it had come to an end, not in a good way

BUT all my fears were pretty mch groundless, and I'm a stronger person from having gone through all of that

Hope this helps, and - sincerely - good luck!

greg

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Re: ACL
« Reply #75 on: August 02, 2007, 08:18:33 AM »
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Actually went skating around the hood yesterday evening for the first time in 16 weeks since the surgery.  I just did some ollies and pushed around.  I'm not heading to El Toro anytime soon that's for fuckin' sure.  It felt fuckin' great being back on my board.
[close]

not trying to discourage  you but chiiiiiiiiiil dude. Skating will only be fun and you'll think, "oh it doesn't hurt, I'll push it a little harder today". Not a good idea. I'd hit the bike up  and do hecka exercises to strengthen it up. You don't want this to linger and if you do the right things now it won't ever be an issue again.
[close]

no fucking shit, this is the truth- i'm sure that my choice to go and skate around while it was still swollen and not fully healed from surgery was a big factor in needing a 2nd and now a 3rd surgery. 

fuck what JT says about "doing whatever you have to in moderation", what you have to do is heal the fuck up and getting out on your skateboard isn't going to help that.  what a terrible fucking piece of advice, "chief", seriously...
[close]

I've been there and had 4 knee surgeries as well, I was talking about a stroll down the street to keep your spirits up, not jumping down stairs. And yeah, after it's not swelling with exercise, skating in moderation can help you. It all depends on what type of skating you do. I'm not talking about a few months out, but pumping around a skatepark at 5 or 6 months after a surgery that's recovering properly is good for your muscle response, where as jumping down stuff is like smoking dynamite. Some trainers even work this stuff into the exercise routine with pros after 4 and a 1/2 months.


who the hell's talking about "jumping down stuff"?  i'm sure as fuck not.  i know a guy who had an ACL surgery, spent 9 months in rehab and the first time he went back out on his board, still swollen and a little tender, he put his board down and stepped on it wrong as he started to push off and boom, shit blew up on him again and he had to go and get it all re-done.  all because he stepped on his fucking board and got a wobble.  i re-injured mine twice by some similar nonsense.  the bottom line is that you don't HAVE to be jumping down stairs to make an off balance step or rotation which completely tears everything back apart. 

what you're failing to realize/admit, "chief", is not only that you CAN re-fuck shit up w/ the lowest impact and most insignificant/mundane type of motions, but how completely EASY it is to do just that.  it's so fucking easy!!  you may run your skate companies like a militant concentration camp, and your riders may be fine with that, but for the sake of all us average joes here on the slap messageboard, please stop advising people with ACL/meniscus problems to go out and skate before their knees are completely healed.  we like to skate and we don't have a paycheck coming in because of our skating...it's a little tougher to balance a major injury (not to mention a re-injury) w/ your work and personal life when your work and personal life don't revolve around the million dollar skateboarding businesses that you don't own...i mean, how much risk do you really want to advise people to take?  don't we all take enough as it is, just being skaters?  we should be advised by a "professional" to push the limits when it comes to healing our bodies as well?  fuck, man. 

if any of you idiots want to listen to old chief sitting bull(shit) here and go have a cruise while you got knee damage, be my guest, but please, remember to come in here and make a topic about it when you fuck up and are faced w/ having to get opened back up all over again and spend another 9-12 months hating life and doing the same shit you've been doing, or worse.  it fucking sucks.

this topic is too depressing and now i'm getting angry reading this shit and reflecting on my own experiences with pushing the limits.  fuck it, i'm no savior, anybody wanting to go against common sense and doctor's advice can make that choice and live w/ the consequences on their own.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 08:55:07 AM by greg »

greg

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Re: ACL
« Reply #76 on: August 02, 2007, 08:54:15 AM »
I found it quite traumatising - woke up in cold sweats from dreaming about doing it for a few months afterwards, and really had to think about things and take the decision that my long-term health was the most important thing: I want to be mobile when I'm old basically and that is more important than skating. But I defintiely took the view that I could not let it break me - that it was a random freak accident and unlikely to happen again if I wasn't stupid: once I'd been assured and re-assured by the physio that I would be able to skate again I forced myself to overcome my fears etc - I think I had to really, or risk being miserable and pretty inactive for the rest of my life - whereas now I live a totally normal, active life.

But the physio did say it would be ok to roll - just roll - a few months after the op. The main problem with me was phsychological - I was scared it would go again and that held me back a lot for a while which, in retrospect, was a good thing. I have to admit, like Sanch refers to, I got really frustrated not trying tricks etc and seeing everyone else skating normally, and found it easier to step away from all that until I could actually try to ollie etc (well nollie in my case for the first bit, as that put all the pressure on my good leg)


word to your first quoted paragraph, but as far as your physio saying it would be ok to roll...doctors know absolutely nothing about skateboarding, nor should they, and therefore they don't take into consideration the rough elements of what we do.  rocks, cracks, sticks, wobbly trucks, traffic, people, fucking anything.  there's so much variation in what you deal with from session to session of skating that a doctor is in absolutely no position to tell you that you should be partaking in an activity that is plain fucking dangerous in nature, let alone before you've had your proper healing time.  ultimately YOU are the only one responsible for your own rehab, and a PT trainer/doc can only generalize and give you a little bit of guidance based upon the absence of any tears in MRI pictures, your range of motion in your leg/knee, and the basic patterns/tendencies of people w/ previous injuries of the same nature.  for example, the reason you hear that you'll be out for 6-12 months w/ an ACL surgery is because that's GENERALLY how long it has taken everybody before you.  does it mean that you won't take longer to heal?  fuck no, because even though we have the same parts, everyone's body is different.  you'll get discharged from PT having met your goals for range of motion and strengthening and what not, but they don't just tell you "ok you're good now, go and be the old you and get back into things"- they tell you that you've completed PT and that things may not be completely 100% yet and that ultimately YOU have to make the judgment call as to whether you can or can't do certain things (yet).

and besides, what does a damn doc give a shit if you go out and re-injure yourself?  people tend to forget that american healthcare is a BUSINESS, just like everything else.  obviously your doc isn't going to be advising you to go hurt yourself, but if you do, what does he really give a shit?  it's your responsibility and your problem, and he'll still be there regardless to fix it for you all over again, and at a 5-figure cost at that.  ****not to mention, riding a skateboard and pushing are absolutely NOT good ways to stretch and strengthen your knee and the muscles in your legs (riding a bicycle is hands down the best option).****  impact is the biggest thing you focus on steering away from after a knee surgery, and when a doc thinks about you going out on a skateboard for a cruise, he's thinking "oh ok, no impact, that seems alright" without always considering rotative motions that stress the cartilage/ligaments too much and result in (re-)tears. 

all in all, it's seriously not a good fucking idea.  the only real benefit to getting out and riding around on a board is that it provides a little psychological relief from being off the board so long (lets face it we all love to skate and always want to skate as soon as possible after injuries), but that's just fucking stupid if you're willing to risk perhaps everything just to get out and have a 15 minute cruise around the block that is going to do nothing to help you physically.  you've been off the board for how many months now?  you can't keep your eyes on the prize and focus for just a little bit longer to make it through the end? 

i can't speak for anybody but myself, but i know that when i made that same selfish, impatient choice to get back out on the board, i didn't care about the risk at the time, i just wanted to be get back on my board.  and look at me now.  you need to realize how easy it is for you to do the same thing and then end up being me when it comes to this situation.  shit ain't fun, i advise it to fucking nobody and i think anybody who does is a piece of shit.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 08:59:12 AM by greg »

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Re: ACL
« Reply #77 on: August 02, 2007, 09:44:59 AM »
Greg

Not for nothing, I appreciate all your input but can we please keep this thread civil and on the subject of "Help". This has been a very constructive and insightful thread thus far and for the greater good of those seeking some perspective lets keep friendly and non-flammable. I'm not trying to stick up for anybody; but for real, if you wanna go beef with whoever thats cool, just do it in another thread is all I ask.

thanks,
h

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Re: ACL
« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2007, 09:47:16 AM »
I'm getting fitted for a knee brace next week, if any of you guys have any insight as to one that is preferred or good please let me know.

h

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Re: ACL
« Reply #79 on: August 02, 2007, 10:01:11 AM »
Greg

Not for nothing, I appreciate all your input but can we please keep this thread civil and on the subject of "Help". This has been a very constructive and insightful thread thus far and for the greater good of those seeking some perspective lets keep friendly and non-flammable. I'm not trying to stick up for anybody; but for real, if you wanna go beef with whoever thats cool, just do it in another thread is all I ask.

thanks,
h

i'm not "beefing" here, i'm trying to make a few simple truths clear, that's all.  i have a foul mouth and my own experiences reflect on the nature of this situation, so i speak from the heart.  take it or leave it.

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Re: ACL
« Reply #80 on: August 02, 2007, 10:02:38 AM »
and every knee brace i've ever had was a piece of shit.

i hate the video, but you ever seen hot chocolate?  where mike york has his brace on and his knee still blows up when he slips out of that ss crooked grind?  the bars/slots on the sides that are supposed to "stabilize" your knee are worthless when something like that happens. 

if a knee brace makes you feel more secure, i say go for it (the ones w/ bars on the sides are the most heavy-duty), but don't expect it to actually help when shit happens.  seriously. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 10:04:15 AM by greg »

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Re: ACL
« Reply #81 on: August 02, 2007, 10:05:25 AM »
and actually i take offense to the fact that you would simply address me as a shit-starter in here, rather than focusing on the wealth of information that i've provided. 

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Re: ACL
« Reply #82 on: August 02, 2007, 10:35:39 AM »
I'm getting fitted for a knee brace next week, if any of you guys have any insight as to one that is preferred or good please let me know.

h

I don't know too many brands - and they're probably different in the UK to where you are so all I can give is a couple of general tips;

Knee braces won't guarantee that nothing will happen again - basically if you seriously mess up then the brace won't make that much difference, but that's kind of obvious.

What the right one will do is give your knee a bit more support while it heals, and afterwards when you start skating again whilst some can warm up the ligaments etc whilst being worn, which can help make thinks more flexible

Don't go for anything with velcro straps or anything like that - I tried those and they really didn't work for me - and the velcro can lose grip after a while. I also got one once with a weird hole over the kneecap - that really sucked too and made it feel like my knee was trying to push through the hole

The one I used (and still use every time I go skating) is a neophrane (pleasue excuse my spelling and terminoloy - I'm soo tired) one - kind of like a thick lycra type thing that I slip over my lef. It warms it up, and there are no holes or straps: so it makes my knee feel pretty sturdy (maybe that's psychological nowdays but I'm not taking a chance)

It will never protect my knee in the event of a bad fall, but it does warm it up and makes it feel a bit tighter and more secure - so it's worked for me :)

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Re: ACL
« Reply #83 on: August 02, 2007, 10:59:45 AM »

 as far as your physio saying it would be ok to roll...doctors know absolutely nothing about skateboarding, nor should they, and therefore they don't take into consideration the rough elements of what we do.  rocks, cracks, sticks, wobbly trucks, traffic, people, fucking anything.  there's so much variation in what you deal with from session to session of skating that a doctor is in absolutely no position to tell you that you should be partaking in an activity that is plain fucking dangerous in nature, let alone before you've had your proper healing time.  ultimately YOU are the only one responsible for your own rehab, and a PT trainer/doc can only generalize and give you a little bit of guidance based upon the absence of any tears in MRI pictures, your range of motion in your leg/knee, and the basic patterns/tendencies of people w/ previous injuries of the same nature.

and besides, what does a damn doc give a shit if you go out and re-injure yourself?  people tend to forget that american healthcare is a BUSINESS 
[/quote]

First off, I'm sorry you're going through such a shit time and sincerely hope it all works out. To be honest I think everyone giving advice on here is approaching this thread with the same spirit, whether you agree with their advice or not - I respect anyone who'se had to deal with this shit.

I know and agree that doctors know absolutely  nothing about skateboarding. What the physio did know, though, was how a recovering patients leg should behave - mine did plenty of test movements and manipulations and I waited for his say so before I did *anything* - basically when he said that my knee was pretty much back to the state of a normal knee I began considering skating a little: this was some considerable time after the operation. He did care whether I re-hurt myself simply because I'm in England, and so was lucky enough to have the state pay for my injury: so it would have been bad business sense to give me bad advice! I took skate mags, talked loads about it - basically tried to let him know how precarious it is in a bid to have the most informed advice possible

He had me running on a treadmill, jumping on a trampoline and things like that - basically showing that my knee could handle it and that I had to get over the mental side; again I did not skate until some time after this, but I did get pretty thoroughly checked out

When I skated, I did so really carefully and gingerly: again I took months to even try to ollie - I think I had the final op in June and did my first ollie in January - but even after that I gradually built it up over months and months (and probably didn't even try to ollie or skate properly again for a few months after that). Yeah it would have been completely stupid to try anything deemable as a trick for quite a while: I just scooted about a little.

And I agree - riding a bike is a very very good way to strengthen your knee - I rode my bike for months before getting back on a board

Peace

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Re: ACL
« Reply #84 on: August 02, 2007, 11:17:39 AM »
hirstyrlk

+1 ;)

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Re: ACL
« Reply #85 on: August 02, 2007, 07:06:32 PM »
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Actually went skating around the hood yesterday evening for the first time in 16 weeks since the surgery.  I just did some ollies and pushed around.  I'm not heading to El Toro anytime soon that's for fuckin' sure.  It felt fuckin' great being back on my board.
[close]

not trying to discourage  you but chiiiiiiiiiil dude. Skating will only be fun and you'll think, "oh it doesn't hurt, I'll push it a little harder today". Not a good idea. I'd hit the bike up  and do hecka exercises to strengthen it up. You don't want this to linger and if you do the right things now it won't ever be an issue again.
[close]

no fucking shit, this is the truth- i'm sure that my choice to go and skate around while it was still swollen and not fully healed from surgery was a big factor in needing a 2nd and now a 3rd surgery. 

fuck what JT says about "doing whatever you have to in moderation", what you have to do is heal the fuck up and getting out on your skateboard isn't going to help that.  what a terrible fucking piece of advice, "chief", seriously...
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I've been there and had 4 knee surgeries as well, I was talking about a stroll down the street to keep your spirits up, not jumping down stairs. And yeah, after it's not swelling with exercise, skating in moderation can help you. It all depends on what type of skating you do. I'm not talking about a few months out, but pumping around a skatepark at 5 or 6 months after a surgery that's recovering properly is good for your muscle response, where as jumping down stuff is like smoking dynamite. Some trainers even work this stuff into the exercise routine with pros after 4 and a 1/2 months.

[close]

who the hell's talking about "jumping down stuff"?  i'm sure as fuck not.  i know a guy who had an ACL surgery, spent 9 months in rehab and the first time he went back out on his board, still swollen and a little tender, he put his board down and stepped on it wrong as he started to push off and boom, shit blew up on him again and he had to go and get it all re-done.  all because he stepped on his fucking board and got a wobble.  i re-injured mine twice by some similar nonsense.  the bottom line is that you don't HAVE to be jumping down stairs to make an off balance step or rotation which completely tears everything back apart. 

what you're failing to realize/admit, "chief", is not only that you CAN re-fuck shit up w/ the lowest impact and most insignificant/mundane type of motions, but how completely EASY it is to do just that.  it's so fucking easy!!  you may run your skate companies like a militant concentration camp, and your riders may be fine with that, but for the sake of all us average joes here on the slap messageboard, please stop advising people with ACL/meniscus problems to go out and skate before their knees are completely healed.  we like to skate and we don't have a paycheck coming in because of our skating...it's a little tougher to balance a major injury (not to mention a re-injury) w/ your work and personal life when your work and personal life don't revolve around the million dollar skateboarding businesses that you don't own...i mean, how much risk do you really want to advise people to take?  don't we all take enough as it is, just being skaters?  we should be advised by a "professional" to push the limits when it comes to healing our bodies as well?  fuck, man. 

if any of you idiots want to listen to old chief sitting bull(shit) here and go have a cruise while you got knee damage, be my guest, but please, remember to come in here and make a topic about it when you fuck up and are faced w/ having to get opened back up all over again and spend another 9-12 months hating life and doing the same shit you've been doing, or worse.  it fucking sucks.

this topic is too depressing and now i'm getting angry reading this shit and reflecting on my own experiences with pushing the limits.  fuck it, i'm no savior, anybody wanting to go against common sense and doctor's advice can make that choice and live w/ the consequences on their own.

'Push the limits', is that what I said?
You're right about everything. You're totally right.
(especially about me running the companies like concentration camps!)

Stay off your board and go to Physical therapy for a year is good advice, but that's conservative and not necessary for everyone.
I think it all depends on the complexity of the injury, the surgery and how much has been invested into rehab.

No need to take your frustration out on me though, you act like what happened to you is my fault.
I was just speaking from my experiences, sorry yours are worse.

If it makes you that mad, I'll delete the first post and replace it with the quote below.
Maybe, it will at least cut down on your pointless insults.

"Stay off the board everybody and stay in rehab!"

                                    -Jamie Thomas
                                     Professional skateboarder


"success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts"

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Re: ACL
« Reply #86 on: August 03, 2007, 01:32:15 AM »

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Re: ACL
« Reply #87 on: August 03, 2007, 07:14:44 AM »
Greg

I didn't say you were startin any shit, I just want to keep the conversation civil as this thread is now(opens envelope)TADA!
The only resource available on the internet that is conversing SPECIFICALLY about knee surgery and skateboarding; google "skateboarding and ACL" and see how much info you find...so if this is all ANYBODY has why convolute it with angry opinion about someones perspective. We're all in this together in some strange way, shape or form so lets build together and then maybe *just maybe* someone else can find info here that they can use to help them get through their own ordeal accordingly.
All the same, I apologize if I gave you the impression that I'm singling you out as a shit starter. I feel for you and wish you a successful OP and speedy recovery.

h

 

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Re: ACL
« Reply #88 on: August 08, 2007, 04:22:19 PM »
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Actually went skating around the hood yesterday evening for the first time in 16 weeks since the surgery.  I just did some ollies and pushed around.  I'm not heading to El Toro anytime soon that's for fuckin' sure.  It felt fuckin' great being back on my board.
[close]

not trying to discourage  you but chiiiiiiiiiil dude. Skating will only be fun and you'll think, "oh it doesn't hurt, I'll push it a little harder today". Not a good idea. I'd hit the bike up  and do hecka exercises to strengthen it up. You don't want this to linger and if you do the right things now it won't ever be an issue again.
[close]

no fucking shit, this is the truth- i'm sure that my choice to go and skate around while it was still swollen and not fully healed from surgery was a big factor in needing a 2nd and now a 3rd surgery. 

fuck what JT says about "doing whatever you have to in moderation", what you have to do is heal the fuck up and getting out on your skateboard isn't going to help that.  what a terrible fucking piece of advice, "chief", seriously...
[close]

I've been there and had 4 knee surgeries as well, I was talking about a stroll down the street to keep your spirits up, not jumping down stairs. And yeah, after it's not swelling with exercise, skating in moderation can help you. It all depends on what type of skating you do. I'm not talking about a few months out, but pumping around a skatepark at 5 or 6 months after a surgery that's recovering properly is good for your muscle response, where as jumping down stuff is like smoking dynamite. Some trainers even work this stuff into the exercise routine with pros after 4 and a 1/2 months.

[close]

who the hell's talking about "jumping down stuff"?  i'm sure as fuck not.  i know a guy who had an ACL surgery, spent 9 months in rehab and the first time he went back out on his board, still swollen and a little tender, he put his board down and stepped on it wrong as he started to push off and boom, shit blew up on him again and he had to go and get it all re-done.  all because he stepped on his fucking board and got a wobble.  i re-injured mine twice by some similar nonsense.  the bottom line is that you don't HAVE to be jumping down stairs to make an off balance step or rotation which completely tears everything back apart. 

what you're failing to realize/admit, "chief", is not only that you CAN re-fuck shit up w/ the lowest impact and most insignificant/mundane type of motions, but how completely EASY it is to do just that.  it's so fucking easy!!  you may run your skate companies like a militant concentration camp, and your riders may be fine with that, but for the sake of all us average joes here on the slap messageboard, please stop advising people with ACL/meniscus problems to go out and skate before their knees are completely healed.  we like to skate and we don't have a paycheck coming in because of our skating...it's a little tougher to balance a major injury (not to mention a re-injury) w/ your work and personal life when your work and personal life don't revolve around the million dollar skateboarding businesses that you don't own...i mean, how much risk do you really want to advise people to take?  don't we all take enough as it is, just being skaters?  we should be advised by a "professional" to push the limits when it comes to healing our bodies as well?  fuck, man. 

if any of you idiots want to listen to old chief sitting bull(shit) here and go have a cruise while you got knee damage, be my guest, but please, remember to come in here and make a topic about it when you fuck up and are faced w/ having to get opened back up all over again and spend another 9-12 months hating life and doing the same shit you've been doing, or worse.  it fucking sucks.

this topic is too depressing and now i'm getting angry reading this shit and reflecting on my own experiences with pushing the limits.  fuck it, i'm no savior, anybody wanting to go against common sense and doctor's advice can make that choice and live w/ the consequences on their own.
[close]

'Push the limits', is that what I said?
You're right about everything. You're totally right.
(especially about me running the companies like concentration camps!)

Stay off your board and go to Physical therapy for a year is good advice, but that's conservative and not necessary for everyone.
I think it all depends on the complexity of the injury, the surgery and how much has been invested into rehab.

No need to take your frustration out on me though, you act like what happened to you is my fault.
I was just speaking from my experiences, sorry yours are worse.

If it makes you that mad, I'll delete the first post and replace it with the quote below.
Maybe, it will at least cut down on your pointless insults.

"Stay off the board everybody and stay in rehab!"

                                    -Jamie Thomas
                                     Professional skateboarder


I think Jamie's right... not the sarcastic answer he gave above... but the one he mentioned earlier about rolling around in moderation.  I think it's good physically to get your leg muscles back in shape and getting accustomed to standing and balancing on your board again.  Hell, rolling around helps mentally too.  Just the feeling of skating down the street makes you feel so damn good it does wonders for the psyche.  It's up to how you feel and when you think the time is right.


hatehatehatehate

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Re: ACL
« Reply #89 on: August 08, 2007, 04:35:21 PM »
I just got home from the hospital, I had the surgery today. it's really not that bad. could be the drugs talking though. mmmm drugs....