Author Topic: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...  (Read 9281 times)

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Sleazy

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2008, 07:56:29 AM »
being a good person seems only slightly harder than not being an asshole

i don't get why people over complicate simple things in life

Doctor Handsome

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2008, 09:13:38 AM »
Did anyone else think Brian Sumner was sick in The End? What happened?

StabMasterArson

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2008, 09:19:58 AM »
he skated to the misfits in the end, i think thats pretty funny. And in a Big Brother "god damn am" interview, they asked him his favorite misfits song and he said "Angle fuck". I wonder if god approves of the misfits?

Cheapboarder

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2008, 09:25:19 AM »
I believe in god but I dont press on others because I know how retard it must sound.

Alaska

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2008, 09:37:49 AM »
What a fucking idiot. He obviously doesn't have a firm grasp on what evolution states. This pseudo-scientific bullshit christian conservatives are trying to convey as substantiated facts is really mind-blowing.

grimcity

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2008, 10:09:36 AM »
I don't know if Sumner's an asshole or not (I ran across him at a trade show for a split second a few years ago and he seemed nice enough), but I will say that the particular quote he made is pretty stupid. I'm not so much anti religion as I am anti-people that let their faith override common sense and reason. I'm also anti-people projecting their mystical world view onto everyone else (i.g.: "Who is truly to say Hitler was evil?")
I'm an atheist, that doesn't mean I don't have a general world view or general philosophy. As an atheist, I think this life is the one I have, so I'm going to do my best to enjoy the shit out of it. I'm also a humanist, so I'm going to do my best to make my trip through mortality a good one, and I'm going to try to help make my friends and family have a productive and positive journey as well, in whatever little way I can do that. Not because a god is telling me to, but because treating people with respect and in a positive way eventually comes back to my benefit or the benefit of my community. It's a proactive, selfish and selfless move to evolve the social network I live in so that it benefits me and mine. Nothing cosmic about it, and no need for a deep meaningful "purpose" other than to exist and make my temporary existence an awesome experience.

Anyway:
Quote from: Sumner
"In the following months I put my time into trying to disprove there was any GOD at all.
It's impossible to prove a negative, which is what Sumner clumsily describes himself doing. By attempting to disprove, he presumes that there's a god in the first place, so he's already skipping reason and starting off with an irrational premise.

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This way I felt I could know we were just evolved monkeys and no one really should be complaining about the way we behave half the time.
Fuck willful ignorance! We didn't evolve from monkeys, we evolved from an ape-like common ancestor, which would make sense seeing as how we are apes... and even the great (and some lesser) apes have social constructs that keep them organized.
Anyway, what I'm saying is you have all the rights in the world to complain about the way people behave if that's what you want to do. You damn sure don't need a god to tell you when someone's being an asshole.

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Also that if we came from time, plus chance, plus matter then everything really is permissible.
No, everything is not permissible, nor has it been historically. The laws we live under now were once unwritten common laws that ancient pagans lived under because they knew that some shit was harmful to society, and some shit wasn't. Murder was illegal in plenty of places thousands of years before the Bible was selectively assembled by the powers-that-be at the time.

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Who is truly to say Hitler was evil?
Any person with two or more brain cells that have the ability to perform chemical synapses. I'd even include parrots, even though they don't understand what they're saying.

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In the end we donít truly matter,
To this, I agree and disagree. Right now, I know I matter to my wife, family, and my friends, but in 4 to 6 billion years, when the sun is a red giant and the earth is a disintegrating piece of coal inside of it, whatever dust is left of me really won't matter a helluva lot in any instance.

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there is no real good or bad; there is no after life and quite frankly why are you worrying about anything?
Sorry, but I don't recall ever hearing that Sumner was a mass murderer, bank robber, smack dealer or baby raper before he converted to his current religion. If he wasn't religious, he'd be the exact same person he is now, just without the supernatural godstuff.

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Also I was so over my life I was looking for a way out. Instead, by trying to disprove many different faiths and beliefs I was faced with the reality of drawing closer to GOD. Not any GOD, the GOD. The GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The GOD who sent His only Son Jesus Christ to die for the sins of the world. By the time this site was ready to go I had done everything but meet GOD.
Sumner sat down and "disproved" how many thousands of gods and religions, exactly?
On top of that, he settled on a religion that pretty much adopted and consumed every pagan practice, story, and ritual at the time it gained it's first real bout of mainstream popularity. 
Noah's flood? It's in Gilgamesh, written 2000 years before the Bible. Christmas and Easter... pagan holidays adopted by Christianity through the will of the Roman emperor Constantine.

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One night after hearing the right sermon and after life hadnít changed I called out GOD to reveal Himself just as His Word claims in Revelation 3:20. That night He showed up and changed my life forever. Now a website makes all the sense!"
...on the part I bolded... why is it that this kind of speak is socially acceptable? If someone came into my office right now and told me that God told them to come into my office and take a dump, I'd know they were crazy and I'd make them poo in someone else's office.

Another thing... if "god" tells people all these important things that they need to do in life "god told me to do this or that," then what about simple shit? If a god can tell you something so important that'll it'll change your life, and part of your faith is having a "relationship" with god and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, then what's god's favorite color? What t-shirt do you own that god likes the most? In the old testament, god was pretty famous for playing favorites, so he's got to have some opinions on some petty shit, right? I mean, if the creator of the universe is truly concerned with where you put your penis, then surely he has an opinion on who had the best part in Fully Flared.

Sorry, but the idea that a cosmic entity is sitting somewhere out in a metaphysical realm worrying about whether or not I eat shellfish is just stupid and arrogant. Meh.

PS
According to the Bible, it's a sin to pray in public, or to make a spectacle of yourself while praying. Just wanted to throw that out there so I could prevent some otherwise fine folks from burning in hell and all.

skatemore,man

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2008, 10:27:55 AM »
sometimes the best way to discover your truth is to completely abandon everything that is known and start today. One must let go in order to hang on....

It's wild to see how people who have been indoctrinated by one notion, be it sceintific, religious, an aspect of family, business, basically opinions of right and wrong close their senses and allow themselves to fall to the wayside along with any open consciousness that constitutes who they are.

I've got no problem with religion or spirituality when they're utilized in a right manner, as tools for teaching. Someone posted an online flyer of sorts knocking on religion, about some dude in the sky ghost writing a book and what not, that notion is indeed fucked up, but when one might look at schools of spiritual thought as just that, a school of thought, they might get something from it.

I don't think that i believe in a god. we're just balls of energy and as far as we know that stuff is neither created or destroyed, so it's most likely that we're just ripping around like a scene from the indoor skatepark on a rainy friday night during an open skate/bike session. In looking at it like that i can say that there is a right way to do things at the skatepark, there are preferences, no snaking, the nod, loose trucks.... knowledge of that shit comes from some sort of lesson and that's where spirituality and/or religion could come in handy. heaven and hell, that's right here. stick your shit bolts and ride away.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 10:33:31 AM by skatemore,man »

Alaska

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2008, 10:28:36 AM »
Grimcity, you beat me to the point by point breakdown. Props.

PAWL

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2008, 10:33:44 AM »
yo mike mo new age ape style high five with my reborn hand.

 2008 psychedelic experience. thanks.

NickDagger

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2008, 11:09:14 AM »
Grim makes some good points, although the question of objective truth is a good one.

And to play the devil's advocate(no pun intended):

Hitler is used far too often as an example, but if what Grim says about humanity is true, why did the millions of Germans(that were actually responsible for carrying out the holocaust and killed millions of others) do what they did?

The answer is of course a combination of things, historical factors such as: Hitler's successful rekindling of German power since WWI gave him unparalleled support-along with the successful German propaganda, the fear of suffering the same fate as others in standing up against the regime, and so forth-but the glaring fact remains...:

Hundreds of thousands of normal German citizens, took part in a mass murdering campaign that tortured, starved, and ultimately exterminated 6 million people.


So how does this relate to your claims that everyone could tell that what Hitler was doing was wrong, and if entire society's can partake in this genocide, who are we to say that it is wrong? Wasn't their society simply acting in it's own self-interest? Just as the American empire and corporations have done since?

Are there objective rights and wrongs? It seems you are indicating that laws that should be derived from whatever benefits the society, so are you for the sterilization of handicapped people?

I'm claiming:

There are objective rights and wrongs, based on more than what one decides is right for themselves, and that people are fundamentally shitty.
"DIS YA BOI NICK DAGGAL" -Arto Saari


grimcity

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2008, 11:42:14 AM »
^
I think my answer to this will suck, but here's my take:

I'm not really prepared to go all out into objective vs. subjective philosophies as they relate to Hitler, but I'm not sure I believe in objective truth on a philosophical level... I think everything is conditional and subjective, but I think some things are so familiar with the human condition that they'd be considered objective truths for all practical purposes, but my inclusion of humanity in making that statement sort of mangles up the point of objectivity at the same time.

Like you pointed out, there are a combination of things that led to Hitler gaining power, and there were also a lot of factors involved in helping to make the German citizenry help persecute the Jews. I think one of the most notable things that the German government did was dehumanize the Jewish population... if asked if Germany was acting in its own self interest, I'd say no, it acted under Hitler and the Nazi's self-interests, government didn't work under a common law, and eventually the system was brought down, destroyed, and now Germany is a democracy. Hitler's rise could be likened to a harmful random mutation, but that mutation was eventually weeded out via the US and its allies, which acted like natural selection.

About laws though... my claim was that our laws came from an unwritten common law that was designed to keep society a society.
As far as the sterilization of the handicapped... I have the belief that a government's strength is best tested when we see how it treats the weakest in its population. In that respect, the US is doing a shittier job than it could, but it is better than a lot of other industrial nations.

Anyway, I think rights and wrongs are subjective, but there are levels of subjectivity that we perceive as objective.
An example of what I mean:
We could say that "cured concrete is hard" is an objective truth, but that's really only because concrete is harder than we are. I could also say that concrete is soft compared to a diamond, and even further, I could argue about the definition of what "hard" actually is. Just defining the terms makes things subjective.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 11:44:03 AM by grimcity »

NickDagger

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2008, 11:54:37 AM »
But many of the Germans did think that they were acting in their own society's self-interest, and probably for the good of their fellow man, therefore some problems may arrive when each person decides his own morality in manner such as that, yes?

So by your standards we can't claim that the holocaust was objectively wrong, yes?


But forget all that:

Rape is always wrong is objectively true.

Agree or disagree?
"DIS YA BOI NICK DAGGAL" -Arto Saari


NickDagger

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2008, 12:02:28 PM »
By the way someone should make a philosophy thread in Whatevs.
"DIS YA BOI NICK DAGGAL" -Arto Saari


grimcity

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #43 on: August 04, 2008, 12:22:15 PM »
But many of the Germans did think that they were acting in their own society's self-interest, and probably for the good of their fellow man, therefore some problems may arrive when each person decides his own morality in manner such as that, yes?

So by your standards we can't claim that the holocaust was objectively wrong, yes?
By my standards, the holocaust was worse than wrong, but I can't speak to objectivity because any belief I have is subject to conditioning and relativism.

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But forget all that:

Rape is always wrong is objectively true.

Agree or disagree?
As far as I know and will probably ever know, rape is about as horrible as murder. I can't think of an instance where it would be right, but I don't think I can speak to the objective truth of anything because as a human, I'm subject to filtering things out through my own moral code, as well as the moral and legal code of the society I live under. I'm saying that if there is an objective truth, I'm not qualified to point to it because everything I know is subjective and relative.

But like I said, there's a degree of subjectivity that looks an awful lot like objectivity... but it's still subjective because a human has to form that thought.

someonestolemyidentity

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #44 on: August 04, 2008, 12:23:40 PM »
grim

when are you gonna give me my account back?

Epic

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2008, 12:31:59 PM »
I'm a christian.   :)

Sleazy

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2008, 12:33:55 PM »
you need at least one objective\universal truth to base a moral system on even if your a relativist. "do to others as you'd have them do to you" got thrown around by a few of my philosphy teachers and i think it's pretty good.

assuming that beyond that one objective prinicple your a relatavist then in extreme hypothetical situations it can be not so straight forward.

what happens when a virus breaks out that is destroying the earth's population and your only antidote requires sacrificing 1 life for every 10,000 saved. do you create a lottery?

things like that can be tricky but outside of these type things i find it works real well for me and it's atomic enough that you can apply it too any situation.

the difficult part for most people and in situations like Germany is that people loose their objectivity when it comes who gets included. we are just as guilty. you don't have to look any further than how the media spreads it coverage on world tragedy's and how little concern we have for the cviliians that we kill unnecessarily through our imperialism to see that we as a society struggle with the same moral defect when it comes to our interest and how they step on others.

hitler was pushing a eugenics agenda but so were we and some of the allies if i remember correctly and how was what we did to the indians not attempted genocide? germany's implementation was more extreme but the moral issue was the same. morally to me, i'd also say that eugenics makes a better argument for atrocity than financial interest eventhough to me it's a rediculous idea, it's still stronger than just pure greed.

i'd prefer everyone just gets included
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 12:39:00 PM by Sleazy »

j....soy.....

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2008, 12:37:13 PM »
wonder if he just saw that ben stein movie?

Sleazy

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2008, 12:44:28 PM »
nope, most of that was just how i ended up thinking about things after battling the ideas in philosophy classes and at free speach type events with the students and teachers.

grimcity

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2008, 02:04:19 PM »
you need at least one objective\universal truth to base a moral system on even if your a relativist.
I won't say that's not so, I just have no clue what that objective and/or universal truth is, and again, I'm not certain that I'd be able to appreciate or comprehend such a thing if it exists.

You do some programming, so you can probably appreciate the saying that 2+2 only equals 4 when the value of 2=2.

Additionally, you mentioned (figuratively) seeing things atomically... just to use the metaphor, we have to consider that there's also a subatomic universe that completely does away with physics as we know it on the Newtonian level, and the more we learn about how things operate on a quantum scale, the more we see how little sense it makes to us.

I'll go this far: maybe there is an objective truth, but we aren't privy to that information because we're not wired for 100% objectivity. Physically, we only perceive a portion of the light spectrum, we're pretty limited when it comes to senses, and we're all subject to irrationality, emotion, past experience, geographical location, and countless other things that limit our ability to decipher the world we live in. Everything we are is a product of a condition we've either endured (or seen others endure), the way we process the data coming into our brains, and the subjective reasoning that we own as individuals.

In the meantime, even if we're certain that there can only be one answer to a question concerning objectivity, we're still answering that question as conditioned creatures with a subjective bias.

Is rape always bad? In my opinion, yes, but not just because rape is bad... rape is bad because it's the act of harming another person.

Is harming another person always bad? In my opinion no... not if it saves me, my wife, or my friends from getting harmed.

...then we have to go off and define "what is bad," where I'd venture to guess that everyone has a group of things that they could lump together that would be the same (murder, rape, disease, etc), but there'd be a shitload more stuff that we wouldn't agree on because everyone processes things differently.   

lurk daddy

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #50 on: August 04, 2008, 02:17:39 PM »
Did anyone else think Brian Sumner was sick in The End? What happened?
his baker2g part is whats up
IF YOU HAVE SEX ONCE, YOU GET HERPES. IF YOU DO COKE ONCE, YOU DIE AND LOSE YOUR JOB.

big_dave

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2008, 07:17:34 PM »
I'm looking forward to the day when the reality of what human beings truly are comes in line with our technological advances, and as a society, we can discard religion like we did with the flat earth.  This is the only way to a progressive society; religion stands in the way of any eventual true human prosperity and peace.

When we're ready to move on past fairly tales and mythical creatures, we will be ready to be free.

Baby Rabies

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2008, 08:01:50 PM »
I wouldn't call him an asshole, just someone with a very simplistic, superficial, narrow-minded, adolescent concept of spirituality.

Wizard Fuck

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2008, 08:11:12 PM »
I'm looking forward to the day when the reality of what human beings truly are comes in line with our technological advances, and as a society, we can discard religion like we did with the flat earth.  This is the only way to a progressive society; religion stands in the way of any eventual true human prosperity and peace.

When we're ready to move on past fairly tales and mythical creatures, we will be ready to be free.

I wouldn't say that its the only thing that stands in the way..... People have different desires. Some want a lot of power or money, and will kill for it. Bush/Cheney is a good example. They aren't trying to take over Iraq over religion, but money.

In order to have ultimate peace, everyone would have to have the same desires in life. If everyone had the same desires in life this world would be horrible.
The answer is Dutch Masters, you fat fucking catastrophe.

SLAPTASTIC

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2008, 08:42:45 PM »
"I was faced with the reality of drawing closer to GOD. Not any GOD, the GOD. The GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

Why didn't he convert to Judaism?

Either or, there should be a new section on the boards called Philosophy & Metaphysics, where people can have essay fights and whatnot. If not that, then at least a new section called Scientology & MeatSpin.


allegedartist

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2008, 08:46:39 PM »
"I was faced with the reality of drawing closer to GOD. Not any GOD, the GOD. The GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

Why didn't he convert to Judaism?

Either or, there should be a new section on the boards called Philosophy & Metaphysics, where people can have essay fights and whatnot. If not that, then at least a new section called Scientology & MeatSpin.



Actually, Sumner made some pretty disturbing remarks regarding Jews on his old message board. Shit like, "They need to be saved" and all that...

He sucks...

danker peaches

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2008, 09:30:38 PM »
I wouldn't call him an asshole, just  narrow-minded, adolescent concept of spirituality.

BabyKillaSeason

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2008, 10:05:59 PM »
this thread is deeeeep.

ChildoftheGhetto

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Re: holy shit brian sumner is an asshole...
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2008, 10:09:38 PM »
Niggas in here trying to wax philosophical not realizing they look like some damn fools.