Author Topic: student loans?  (Read 23632 times)

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loophole

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student loans?
« on: August 26, 2009, 02:11:54 PM »
they kill.
what loan are you on/recommend? got tips and hints?
i could really use a little advice, i'm flying blind

anblue

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 02:22:52 PM »
i actually wont need student loans which im really happy about but i am about to be on some car loan shit which im kinda bummed on
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TapLuxiferfet

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2009, 02:28:04 PM »
Can't help you dude, my tutition was waived. Maybe find one with the best interest? Good luck.

crailtapper

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 02:29:04 PM »
i actually wont need student loans which im really happy about but i am about to be on some car loan shit which im kinda bummed on

i don't know shit when it comes to student loans, but my girlfriend said that she used a car loan to pay for school because the interest was WAY lower.

RightCoastBiased

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2009, 02:36:56 PM »
The whole student loan process sucks. I just went through it and then decided I could do better things with my money. You need to start off by doing your FASFA. This is what everything is based off of. FASFA will explain how much the government thinks you can pay. You'll need your tax info form last year and/or your parents if you are under 21. Or if you were claimed as a dependent in the 2008 tax year. After that you'll need to contact your school and let them know you did the FASFA. Then the school will tell you how much money, if any, they are going to grant you. From there your school should have a list of suggested borrowers to choose form. Once you choose your lender you will need to sign (you can "e-sign) your Masters Promissory Note (MPN). The process of signing this explains all your borrowers rights, interest rates on subsidized and unsubsidized loans. They will also tell you what the difference between these loans is. Everything you will need to know will be available while signing the MPN. You will also have to answer questions at the end of each page to continue to the next. Then the loan info goes to your school and a letter will arrive at your house in a week or so explaining how much money the lender you choose if giving you.


Good fucking luck because it sucks. I had to do this whole thing pretty much all on my own. Best of luck.

Also, the financial aid office at your school is there to assist you. Bug them as much as you have to, because that is there job. The women I dealt with at the school I was applying for were very unhelpful. So don't be surprised if you run into people like that and don't let it put you off. Just make sure you get your question answered. Also go in there if you want some paper copies of the info about loans and federal stafford loans (which is the loan I was speaking of above and is where you start out, form there you get other student loans).
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 02:39:57 PM by RightCoastBiased »

Sleazy

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2009, 02:39:33 PM »
- stay with the ones with subsidized interest while in school
- only borrow if you have a plan that results in you graduating and getting a job that pays more than what you are going to borrow. it's silly to borrow 80 and get out and make 30.
- they will fuck you, for real. keep every piece of paperwork you get and never trust anyone on the phone. anytime you get told something on the phone that will screw you if it's not true, write down the persons name and what was said and maybe even double check what they are saying your contract. anytime they ask you to provide anything, always confirm that they got it and take down the name and date. i got completely fucked on mine, they claimed i didn't send in paperwork that needed to be sent and i sent it from my school financial aid department with the help of a lady that knew me and who said she'd testify for me and they still said "fuck you and by the way that's 11k in fees." it took me 8 years to resolve it and my credit was fucked the whole time. also, my sister paid one back but didn't keep her paperwork, they said she never paid and then she ended up having to pay again. these people can be real pricks and they get a level of protection that is pretty rediculous and they will take advantage of that to screw you. you have no way out, not even bankruptcy so just respect the level of power that that gives these assholes. you can't even find lawyers who will take your case because it's unwinable when it comes to school loans
- if it does go to the shits contact the onbudsmen that deals with financial aid. if you keep your paperwork straight and didn't fuck up, they will fix it. they fixed mine. http://www.ombudsman.ed.gov/loandefault.html i think that's them.

shit can get sketchy and if something gets wrong, they will pile on some rediculous fees. had a lawyer tell me "this call is costing you 3 grand" so i told him "well i better get my money's worth then so eat a dick" and hung up on him but they did add 3k and took my tax return.

kevbo999

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2009, 02:52:25 PM »
I owe 20k for 2 years of useless schooling.  I've been too poor to pay anything back for 3 years now.  I just accept the fact I'll be in debt forever and try not to think about it.

loophole

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2009, 02:52:55 PM »
thanks rightcoast, but i've already done all the fafsa stuff. i got a stafford subsidised but it just puts a small dent in the cost.
definitely thanks for the paperwork tip sleazy, i'll keep it heavy on managing that. noone wants to be in that situation!

- only borrow if you have a plan that results in you graduating and getting a job that pays more than what you are going to borrow. it's silly to borrow 80 and get out and make 30.
of course, i'm hoping to be making good bank by that time and i think i really can... but naturally i don't have a crystal ball. all of it scares the shit out of me


i was looking at the citibank CitiAssist loan for undergrads to fill in the rest of the money i need.. this is the kind of thing i'm looking for right now. i'm going to compare interest rates with different banks when i wake up, but if anyone knows of any banks to be wary of, that would be good info.

oyolar

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 03:44:59 PM »
my best advice is look for scholarships. just google them and ask your financial aide department which ones are legit. my mom helped me a lot with this so once i get back to the states i'll ask her for some advice. but rightcoastbiased has given you a lot of good info.

Locbrew

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 03:47:20 PM »
I wouldn't have a college education without scholarships and financial aid, luckily enough I got a couple of art scholarships when I was in high school, they have helped me out a lot.
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Re: student loans?
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2009, 04:03:33 PM »
wells fargo
PNC

Sallie Mae as a last choice.


loans suck, im having trouble getting them this year. 

skate_bored

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2009, 04:40:43 PM »
fasfa helped me out a lot. im a dependant living on my own, and in the first year of college me and my mom took out 6,000 each in loans but i also was going to a school far away and paying dorm fees and shit. i moved home and go to a school thats a little cheaper and dont live on campus, and now my financial aid covers all my classes and i get around 1000-1500 per semester extra to live off of, all for free through need based grants that i wont ever have to pay back. loan wise, just get something subsidized. you wont have to pay any interest til after you finish school. another cool thing is after graduation you can usually get your loan deferred and not have to pay it until you are ready. all of this depends on the state/college but overall try to seem poor as possible and you'll get some money, theres lots to be given out.

RightCoastBiased

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2009, 05:21:32 PM »
I think the best bet for a person going to college as a freshman is to go to a community college for the first two years. Do really well so that when you go to apply to a university or other college you can ask them for more money. Showing success on the collegiate level carries a lot more weight than a high school career. This is exactly what I was planing on doing, ace community college and get shit tons of free money.

But if you are past that and my other info wasn't applicable then I can only say best of luck. Personally, I didn't want to get to a place where I need those extra student loans. It never seemed worth it and ethically it didn't seem right. But that's a whole other thread.

Sleazy

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2009, 05:25:07 PM »
I think the best bet for a person going to college as a freshman is to go to a community college for the first two years. Do really well so that when you go to apply to a university or other college you can ask them for more money. Showing success on the collegiate level carries a lot more weight than a high school career. This is exactly what I was planing on doing, ace community college and get shit tons of free money.

really fucking good advice and the classes aren't the only thing that's easier at a community college

McCly

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2009, 06:10:57 PM »
I think the best bet for a person going to college as a freshman is to go to a community college for the first two years. Do really well so that when you go to apply to a university or other college you can ask them for more money. Showing success on the collegiate level carries a lot more weight than a high school career. This is exactly what I was planing on doing, ace community college and get shit tons of free money.

really fucking good advice and the classes aren't the only thing that's easier at a community college

this is what I'm doing too, except I'm taking a year off to get shit situated in my life. I was a year ahead all through school, so I'm not really behind.

crailtapper

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2009, 09:48:10 AM »
mods, can i recommend that this thread be stickyed? there is way too much useful shit in here to let fall by the wayside. all of the kids on here will be grateful come college time.

Tko788

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2009, 10:25:00 AM »
mods, can i recommend that this thread be stickyed? there is way too much useful shit in here to let fall by the wayside. all of the kids on here will be grateful come college time.

Commercial D

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2009, 11:48:11 AM »
Don't repay them. Borrow all you can then move to a different country. You can start a new credit portfolio there.



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Sleazy

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2009, 12:02:18 PM »
mods, can i recommend that this thread be stickyed? there is way too much useful shit in here to let fall by the wayside. all of the kids on here will be grateful come college time.

but move it to the help section if you do

crailtapper

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2009, 09:08:17 AM »
i swear to god i will bump this thread everyday until it is stickyed/stuck/sticked

oyolar

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2009, 11:46:56 PM »
I think the best bet for a person going to college as a freshman is to go to a community college for the first two years. Do really well so that when you go to apply to a university or other college you can ask them for more money. Showing success on the collegiate level carries a lot more weight than a high school career. This is exactly what I was planing on doing, ace community college and get shit tons of free money.

But if you are past that and my other info wasn't applicable then I can only say best of luck. Personally, I didn't want to get to a place where I need those extra student loans. It never seemed worth it and ethically it didn't seem right. But that's a whole other thread.

careful with that though. it all depends on what school you want to go to. i know my university doesn't accept community college credits so it could actually result in being a waste of time and/or money. and aside from that, i know a few people that go to a community college by my house and it's exactly like high school for them. some are bored out of their minds, most aren't trying at it, and almost all of them are hanging out with the exact same people and not experiencing anything new which is a huge part of college (in my opinion). that second complaint is a different issue than the money one we're talking about now though.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 02:06:29 PM by oyolar »

StepCounter

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2009, 11:04:18 AM »
Just my two cents:  it's entirely possible to get a great education essentially for free given the amount of information that's available on the internet.  this is especially true for things like programming and art.  i have friends who made more money programming straight out of high school than people who went to college, studied hard, and graduated with a good amount of debt but without any solid skills.

all I'm saying is be resourceful and you can avoid college debt all together.  recall the quote from Good Will Hunting:  "You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library."

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2009, 12:56:08 PM »
I think the best bet for a person going to college as a freshman is to go to a community college for the first two years. Do really well so that when you go to apply to a university or other college you can ask them for more money. Showing success on the collegiate level carries a lot more weight than a high school career. This is exactly what I was planing on doing, ace community college and get shit tons of free money.

Sound advice. Gen. Ed is Gen. Ed no matter where you go, so you might as well do it a jc where it's cheap.  At a university/undergrad level, you won't be able to take many/if any courses towards a major at first, so you'll essentially be doing the exact same thing as a jc for the first two years anyway. 

GnArcIsSisTic

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2009, 03:55:03 AM »
i don't get why people's first priorities are usually loans...

there are grants and scholarships for people with size 7 feet. why don't you look for some of those?

Sleazy

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2009, 05:24:50 AM »
Just my two cents:  it's entirely possible to get a great education essentially for free given the amount of information that's available on the internet.  this is especially true for things like programming and art.  i have friends who made more money programming straight out of high school than people who went to college, studied hard, and graduated with a good amount of debt but without any solid skills.


i work with tons of programmers who didn't get college educations but there are a few details your not doing justice.

- they don't make more straight out of high school than someone straight out of college. first programming jobs with no experience are hard to get. you could get involved in open source projects and then use that to jump to a real job, but if negotiating skills are equal, i'd bet the college grad would still get a larger salary.
- everyone i know who's gone the no degree route regrets it on some levels and most go back to school. out of all the guys i've known only two have no interest in going back to get their degree. all the rest have gone back or are currently going back.
- out sourced labor generally goes to programmers from poorer countrys where they take fast track approaches to programming. out sourcing didn't work. it only works when you have a domestic resource to act as architect and team lead and this is because eventhough they've mastered syntax, not having the heavy math and science load results in programmers who don't have as good problem sovling skills and who aren't as good with things like abstraction. also, outsourced labor gets about 1/5 the wage of a domestic resource.
- college teaches you how to learn things really quickly. i can pick up a new technology and run with it really quickly and the reason is because of college. eventhough you learn things that don't relate to your eventaul career path, you still learn how to learn things really fast and it's a life skill that is very useful in programming.
- probably 50% of the jobs require degrees. a lot don't but a lot also do. i'd also assume that this precentage goes up significantly if you decide to go into management. you might work up in your current company and then it gets brought out and the new company comes in and lays off all the managers (happens all the time). well now you have to find another job but if your a manager, i'd guess this would be hard to do with out a BS as most manager jobs would require one. sure you can go back to programming but after taking a huge pay cut. if your in management, you're probably married with a mortage and kids and back sliding would probably suck.

and really, are people really ready to go striaght to working corporate jobs right out of high school? seems lame to me. it'd be like going straight from jr. high to a corporate job if you could. who'd really want to. and i'm not sure that i'd want to work with kids striaght out of high school. they'd have to get paid way less, there's just no other reason that you'd be open to it as a team lead or manager other than "well he's cheap." If you could have a rice graduate for the same cash, rice would win every time. there's just no contest.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2009, 05:31:37 AM by Sleazy »

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2009, 09:02:14 AM »
Just my two cents:  it's entirely possible to get a great education essentially for free given the amount of information that's available on the internet.  this is especially true for things like programming and art.  i have friends who made more money programming straight out of high school than people who went to college, studied hard, and graduated with a good amount of debt but without any solid skills.


i work with tons of programmers who didn't get college educations but there are a few details your not doing justice.

- they don't make more straight out of high school than someone straight out of college. first programming jobs with no experience are hard to get. you could get involved in open source projects and then use that to jump to a real job, but if negotiating skills are equal, i'd bet the college grad would still get a larger salary.
- everyone i know who's gone the no degree route regrets it on some levels and most go back to school. out of all the guys i've known only two have no interest in going back to get their degree. all the rest have gone back or are currently going back.
- out sourced labor generally goes to programmers from poorer countrys where they take fast track approaches to programming. out sourcing didn't work. it only works when you have a domestic resource to act as architect and team lead and this is because eventhough they've mastered syntax, not having the heavy math and science load results in programmers who don't have as good problem sovling skills and who aren't as good with things like abstraction. also, outsourced labor gets about 1/5 the wage of a domestic resource.
- college teaches you how to learn things really quickly. i can pick up a new technology and run with it really quickly and the reason is because of college. eventhough you learn things that don't relate to your eventaul career path, you still learn how to learn things really fast and it's a life skill that is very useful in programming.
- probably 50% of the jobs require degrees. a lot don't but a lot also do. i'd also assume that this precentage goes up significantly if you decide to go into management. you might work up in your current company and then it gets brought out and the new company comes in and lays off all the managers (happens all the time). well now you have to find another job but if your a manager, i'd guess this would be hard to do with out a BS as most manager jobs would require one. sure you can go back to programming but after taking a huge pay cut. if your in management, you're probably married with a mortage and kids and back sliding would probably suck.

and really, are people really ready to go striaght to working corporate jobs right out of high school? seems lame to me. it'd be like going straight from jr. high to a corporate job if you could. who'd really want to. and i'm not sure that i'd want to work with kids striaght out of high school. they'd have to get paid way less, there's just no other reason that you'd be open to it as a team lead or manager other than "well he's cheap." If you could have a rice graduate for the same cash, rice would win every time. there's just no contest.

these are definitely valid points.  it's true that in our current society going the no-degree route has downsides (companies probably will choose the candidate w/ a degree and moderate skills over the candidate w/ no-degree and some solid skills).  I don't think this trend will last forever though.  For example start-ups today in general care far more about skills than degrees.  also if one has the skills they can make mobile apps on their own or with their friends and just start getting paid... no resume, no interviews, etc.

so I guess my main point is:  put solid skills first then the degree second... especially if you want to avoid debt (which is highly desirable).



Sleazy

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2009, 10:19:51 AM »
you definitely make a good point but getting those core skills can be difficult if you learn it yourself. i've worked with guys who were exceptions but the guys i currently work with who worked up without degrees definitely go blank if you get too acedemic about things. i have started to dumb down the things that i say to them in the same way that you would when talking to an analsyst. they just simply don't understand fundamental computer science theory or the current industry theory, they only know implementation skills. they know how to write code, create queires, trouble shoot but don't mention any patterns or data structures or automaton or... no design vocabulary what so ever

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2009, 06:08:15 PM »
The only thing I can add to the student loan conversation is ask about federal loan repayment options before you choose which loan to go with. I know for me, I work at a Title I school (which means the community I serve meets federal definitions of poverty) and one type of loan offers federal loan repayment and one doesn't. Mind doesn't, but I could have easily went with a Stafford loan which does. Because I didn't ask the right questions I miss out on a couple thousand dollars a year.

With healthcare it's the same deal. Ask about loan repayment especially if you're interested in under-served populations. My wife qualifies for $25k worth of loan repayment a year for two years with the place she works. Which basically cuts her debt in half.

Sleazy

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2009, 04:50:02 PM »
these are definitely valid points.  it's true that in our current society going the no-degree route has downsides (companies probably will choose the candidate w/ a degree and moderate skills over the candidate w/ no-degree and some solid skills).  I don't think this trend will last forever though.  For example start-ups today in general care far more about skills than degrees.  also if one has the skills they can make mobile apps on their own or with their friends and just start getting paid... no resume, no interviews, etc.

so I guess my main point is:  put solid skills first then the degree second... especially if you want to avoid debt (which is highly desirable).




here's an exerpt from a job description for a job that i'm currently interviewing for

Quote
_________ is seeking enthusiastic workers who have a proven track record in developing .NET business applications, are passionate about .NET (as evidenced by deep technical knowledge and familiarity with the latest Microsoft technologies), have strong computer science backgrounds, have exceptional problem-solving skills, and are willing and eager to contribute to the development of a top quality product.

the bold part is what i'm refering to and both would be things that you get with a degree but not with fast track approaches. if the market dries up or outsourcing starts taking the easier to get jobs these core skills will become more and more important.

i'd just argue that the ability to pay down debt is more important than debt, my wife and my combined school debt only cost us 500 a month which is not significant considering the earning potential we both gained.

and you do bring up very good points and options, so i don't want to seem like i'm just trying to say what you are saying is wrong because it isn't and it is good advice. i just wanted to clarify that there is definitely a huge gain from school that you don't get in DIY fast track approaches and even if your competitive in the market today, careers are long and you want to make sure you will still be competitive in 25 years. also, the whole mcse thing showed what happens when a fast track approach is available to a career choice. that was paying 50k starting and up to 80k or 100k for a while there, everyone and their dog went out and got one because you could get certified in 3-6 months and then market got flooded and now i'd guess you couldn't really do shit with just an mcse. a lot of those guys are probably working at best buy now.

StepCounter

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Re: student loans?
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2009, 09:24:28 PM »
these are definitely valid points.  it's true that in our current society going the no-degree route has downsides (companies probably will choose the candidate w/ a degree and moderate skills over the candidate w/ no-degree and some solid skills).  I don't think this trend will last forever though.  For example start-ups today in general care far more about skills than degrees.  also if one has the skills they can make mobile apps on their own or with their friends and just start getting paid... no resume, no interviews, etc.

so I guess my main point is:  put solid skills first then the degree second... especially if you want to avoid debt (which is highly desirable).




here's an exerpt from a job description for a job that i'm currently interviewing for

Quote
_________ is seeking enthusiastic workers who have a proven track record in developing .NET business applications, are passionate about .NET (as evidenced by deep technical knowledge and familiarity with the latest Microsoft technologies), have strong computer science backgrounds, have exceptional problem-solving skills, and are willing and eager to contribute to the development of a top quality product.

the bold part is what i'm refering to and both would be things that you get with a degree but not with fast track approaches. if the market dries up or outsourcing starts taking the easier to get jobs these core skills will become more and more important.

i'd just argue that the ability to pay down debt is more important than debt, my wife and my combined school debt only cost us 500 a month which is not significant considering the earning potential we both gained.

and you do bring up very good points and options, so i don't want to seem like i'm just trying to say what you are saying is wrong because it isn't and it is good advice. i just wanted to clarify that there is definitely a huge gain from school that you don't get in DIY fast track approaches and even if your competitive in the market today, careers are long and you want to make sure you will still be competitive in 25 years. also, the whole mcse thing showed what happens when a fast track approach is available to a career choice. that was paying 50k starting and up to 80k or 100k for a while there, everyone and their dog went out and got one because you could get certified in 3-6 months and then market got flooded and now i'd guess you couldn't really do shit with just an mcse. a lot of those guys are probably working at best buy now.

Yeah school can definitely be good.  To be clear my approach has not been "fast-track".  Over the last 5-6 years I've studied algorithms, data structures, design patterns, etc on my own, w/ friends, via programming contests and so on.  To make this work one needs to be dedicated... similar to the time/effort put in when learning the basics of skating.