Author Topic: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...  (Read 2631 times)

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Bipsmound

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2009, 11:40:07 AM »
If you're asking me what I think they should do now, I think they should bail asap.  If you're asking me if it was a good cause to go in the first place, fuck no.  Holding an entire nation of people responsible for the actions of a small group (that isn't even from there) operating within the borders of an extremely unstable country?  That's bad for business on so many levels.

Yes, too bad for the families of dead soldiers, they were duped.  They were duped when they went in to get rid of non-existant wmd's and they were duped when they turned a manhunt into an 8 year occupation.  I imagine that wasn't what a lot of soldiers signed up for. 

As other people have said in here, your rationale of showing those pesky Afghans who's boss is a lot like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

Sleazy

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2009, 11:46:14 AM »
i think the main difference is in whether we think the war was justified and whether we think there is a continued threat from there

for me it's yes, yes and you no, no

no meeting in the middle on that one so i guess best to just agree to disagree

NickDagger

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2009, 11:53:03 AM »
I am a 25 year-old college graduate, employed by the state of North Carolina.

My view is that we should leave Afghanistan immediately for a variety of reasons. One of which is that I find it wrong for us to be there in the first place. If the goal was to get Bin Laden and his men, a much, much smaller operation would have sufficed. Focusing on intelligence and police work, rather than some giant, decade-long war. Another reason to be against this war is that the very essence of being over there is counterproductive to the the stated goals/reasons for being there in the first place. That is to say: the longer America(or any outside occupying force) stays in the country, as more and more Afghans, both innocent and not die, the resentment towards Americans(outsiders) grows, while the popularity of the Taliban(fellow countrymen) skyrockets. So if the stated goal is to get rid of the Taliban, and with each new tactic we've tried for nearly ten years increases their popularity... why wouldn't you want to leave? This has been shown countless times throughout the history of Afghanistan. These are poor people who live in a isolated place. They aren't any massive threat to anyone. If we want to get radicals, why not start somewhere like Saudi Arabia? Oh wait, they're giving us good oil rates.

There are also many other reasons that the operation is just not practical, outlined below:

http://icosgroup.net/modules/reports/struggle_for_kabul/taliban_tactics :




Reasons to be against the war:

1.)It's immoral, and hundreds of thousands of people have died or had their lives ruined as a result.
2.)It costs hundreds of billions of dollars. We could give everybody the best health care in the world with the money we're throwing over there.
3.)It's counterproductive to our stated goals, and in fact is helping to increase anti-American sentiment around the Muslim world, which is likely to increase terrorists attacks. Oops.
"DIS YA BOI NICK DAGGAL" -Arto Saari


killing time

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2009, 12:45:10 PM »
I am a 25 year-old college graduate, employed by the state of North Carolina.

My view is that we should leave Afghanistan immediately for a variety of reasons. One of which is that I find it wrong for us to be there in the first place. If the goal was to get Bin Laden and his men, a much, much smaller operation would have sufficed. Focusing on intelligence and police work, rather than some giant, decade-long war. Another reason to be against this war is that the very essence of being over there is counterproductive to the the stated goals/reasons for being there in the first place. That is to say: the longer America(or any outside occupying force) stays in the country, as more and more Afghans, both innocent and not die, the resentment towards Americans(outsiders) grows, while the popularity of the Taliban(fellow countrymen) skyrockets. So if the stated goal is to get rid of the Taliban, and with each new tactic we've tried for nearly ten years increases their popularity... why wouldn't you want to leave? This has been shown countless times throughout the history of Afghanistan. These are poor people who live in a isolated place. They aren't any massive threat to anyone. If we want to get radicals, why not start somewhere like Saudi Arabia? Oh wait, they're giving us good oil rates.

There are also many other reasons that the operation is just not practical, outlined below:

http://icosgroup.net/modules/reports/struggle_for_kabul/taliban_tactics :




Reasons to be against the war:

1.)It's immoral, and hundreds of thousands of people have died or had their lives ruined as a result.
2.)It costs hundreds of billions of dollars. We could give everybody the best health care in the world with the money we're throwing over there.
3.)It's counterproductive to our stated goals, and in fact is helping to increase anti-American sentiment around the Muslim world, which is likely to increase terrorists attacks. Oops.


thank you nick dagger
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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2009, 05:27:05 AM »
I don't have charts, and my definitions on morality are probably different than some.  Also, the reason why I joined the military have nothing to do with being a patriot, serving a greater good, or anything like that.  I've deployed to the Middle East three times, two of those post 9/11.  I will go to Afghanistan some time next year or very early 2011.  Not sure yet.

I disagree with being in Afghanistan.  I feel that the whole global war on terrorism should be dealt with on a case by case basis, and dealt with much harder and faster than we have been.  I think that the way you do this is by sanctioning the fuck out of them.  You deny ALL aid to them until they start defending their own lands and ousting these terrorist groups.  You start putting pressure on their neighbors who are our "allies" (I am looking at you Pakistan) to do the same....  I'm sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.  You wanna be a US ally?  Then stop letting these fucks hide on your soil.

When it comes to dealing with it, it needs to be swift and hard.  The media needs to be uninvolved.  I think thermo devices shouldn't be banned, and I think that the fact that we cannot seal off cave entrances because it can lead to them starving is NOT cruel and unusual.  You are dealing with a group that does not understand  cruel and unusual.  I am tired of losing guys, and spending too much money and time fighting a war that could have been solved in under five years.

I know my opinions aren't popular, but until you've been there and lost friends and seen what it's like you cannot begin to understand.  The fact of the matter is this.  I hate that we are in a completely useless country, fighting a war that has no end.  But I do what I do, because this is where my life ended up and I will do it to the best of my ability.  I am pretty fucking good at it too.

Oh and if it matters for your class-- I am the rare soldier who is a libertarian.  I believe in very limited govt. regulations and that the main thing the govt should actually be used for is providing things like a military.

hope this helps. 

Beer Keg Peg Leg

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2009, 06:06:11 AM »
I don't have charts, and my definitions on morality are probably different than some.  Also, the reason why I joined the military have nothing to do with being a patriot, serving a greater good, or anything like that.  I've deployed to the Middle East three times, two of those post 9/11.  I will go to Afghanistan some time next year or very early 2011.  Not sure yet.

I disagree with being in Afghanistan.  I feel that the whole global war on terrorism should be dealt with on a case by case basis, and dealt with much harder and faster than we have been.  I think that the way you do this is by sanctioning the fuck out of them.  You deny ALL aid to them until they start defending their own lands and ousting these terrorist groups.  You start putting pressure on their neighbors who are our "allies" (I am looking at you Pakistan) to do the same....  I'm sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.  You wanna be a US ally?  Then stop letting these fucks hide on your soil.

When it comes to dealing with it, it needs to be swift and hard.  The media needs to be uninvolved.  I think thermo devices shouldn't be banned, and I think that the fact that we cannot seal off cave entrances because it can lead to them starving is NOT cruel and unusual.  You are dealing with a group that does not understand  cruel and unusual.  I am tired of losing guys, and spending too much money and time fighting a war that could have been solved in under five years.

I know my opinions aren't popular, but until you've been there and lost friends and seen what it's like you cannot begin to understand.  The fact of the matter is this.  I hate that we are in a completely useless country, fighting a war that has no end.  But I do what I do, because this is where my life ended up and I will do it to the best of my ability.  I am pretty fucking good at it too.

Oh and if it matters for your class-- I am the rare soldier who is a libertarian.  I believe in very limited govt. regulations and that the main thing the govt should actually be used for is providing things like a military.

hope this helps. 

I couldn't disagree more on both of those points. For one, if you still have trouble minimizing civilian casualties with conventional warheads, I don't see how using a nuclear strike would help that. Although I suppose if you remove the media we would never hear about it so it wouldn't matter.

Sleazy

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2009, 06:12:41 AM »
I don't have charts, and my definitions on morality are probably different than some.  Also, the reason why I joined the military have nothing to do with being a patriot, serving a greater good, or anything like that.  I've deployed to the Middle East three times, two of those post 9/11.  I will go to Afghanistan some time next year or very early 2011.  Not sure yet.

I disagree with being in Afghanistan.  I feel that the whole global war on terrorism should be dealt with on a case by case basis, and dealt with much harder and faster than we have been.  I think that the way you do this is by sanctioning the fuck out of them.  You deny ALL aid to them until they start defending their own lands and ousting these terrorist groups.  You start putting pressure on their neighbors who are our "allies" (I am looking at you Pakistan) to do the same....  I'm sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too.  You wanna be a US ally?  Then stop letting these fucks hide on your soil.

When it comes to dealing with it, it needs to be swift and hard.  The media needs to be uninvolved.  I think thermo devices shouldn't be banned, and I think that the fact that we cannot seal off cave entrances because it can lead to them starving is NOT cruel and unusual.  You are dealing with a group that does not understand  cruel and unusual.  I am tired of losing guys, and spending too much money and time fighting a war that could have been solved in under five years.

I know my opinions aren't popular, but until you've been there and lost friends and seen what it's like you cannot begin to understand.  The fact of the matter is this.  I hate that we are in a completely useless country, fighting a war that has no end.  But I do what I do, because this is where my life ended up and I will do it to the best of my ability.  I am pretty fucking good at it too.

Oh and if it matters for your class-- I am the rare soldier who is a libertarian.  I believe in very limited govt. regulations and that the main thing the govt should actually be used for is providing things like a military.

hope this helps. 

best counter argument yet

and much respect on doing what do


but don't you think there could be some benifit to applying your harsher strategy including the pakistan angle to the current situation? do you think that would help minimize future threats from that region?

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2009, 06:21:22 AM »
When I said thermo device I meant a device that produces a large amount of heat, not necessarily nuclear.  A heat producing device would be used to A. burn out the inside of a cave, B. seal it off.  But it also burns people and sucks oxygen forcing those inside to asphyxiate.  Yeah, I know it is awful, but it's pretty much the only way you can successfully fight these people just shy of leveling the hindu kush mountains.

As for the media being uninvolved, until they can report ONLY the news and not put their own spin on it....  or even better, you don't need to know my mission plans or the routes I am taking.  Fuck you FOX, and fuck you CNN.  You are the reason why bad news is what sells these days.  Focus on some fucking postives and let me and mine worry about dealing with the shit you don't want to see.  I've seen these fucks several times over in country and twice they've asked my opinion and both times they've been told to fuck off.  Good luck skewing any of my views.

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2009, 06:25:02 AM »
I totally think that things with Pakistan need to be reworked.  There are some serious shady business dealings between them and some others, all while being "allies" with us.  They need to be held more accountable for dealing with shit on their borders if they are going to be allied with us, that is the prime example of how you get backdoored.

Sleazy

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2009, 07:13:28 AM »
yeah, how the fuck do we got in an invade a country with a stable goverment with no WMDs and no direct ties to the terrorist when pakistan has an unstable goverment and seems to have a look the other way appoach to the terrorist in the phashtun provinces.

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2009, 09:00:07 AM »
Sleazy, I can understand where you are coming from in terms of calling the war legitimate. We were attacked by a plan masterminded from Afghanistan, and we did have a legitimate purpose in going originally. I just think that at this point in time we need to look at what it has brought us, and where it can take us. Bin Laden is gone, so we won't catch him there, its "democratic leadership" is corrupt as hell under Karzai, and we are making no advances towards any goals that would help the safety and security of either The U.S. or Afghanistan. I think at this point, we are staying put in Afghanistan more for the purpose of pride than anything. We don't want to be the next empire to get bitch slapped by Afghanistan, and figure that by being there, we haven't lost yet.
Also, whoever said that Jesus spread his message without war or violence has ignored: The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, and The Conquistadors just to name a few. Christianity has been spread at the tip of a sword for over a millenium now, no matter what your church tells you.
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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2009, 09:07:27 AM »
well, peacing out of afghanistan all together would directly benefit america's economy, unlike sending in an additional 40,000 troops..
Every war in history would tell you the exact opposite. Wars are evil fucked up things that kill a lot of people, but so is capitalism. The two systems work side by side to assure that people profit off of death. Traditionally, the more involved in war we have become, the better our economy has done as well. I wish this wasn't the case, and that striving towards peace resulted in economic growth, but it doesn't. Sending kids to war, killling off/ occupying part of the work force while creating new needs for certain products has traditionally created rapid economic growth.
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rawbertson.

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2009, 09:40:57 AM »
yall stupid how can you be talkin about this shit still? you wastin so much brain space on this shit. shit could have been filled with how to do kickflip backside tail and shit. yall blowin it. thats why antuwan is so good at skating, he done smoked his brain out! he so damn dumb now skatin the only thing on his mind so he gettin shit RIGHT
I

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2009, 09:43:14 AM »
We were attacked by a plan masterminded from Afghanistan,

You still believe this? Really? Dudes in a cave across the world scheming to make NORAD stand down and causing buildings to collapse at near free-fall speed while displaying every characteristic of a controlled demolition? Nah, son.

I'm a Canadian citizen and a working writer with 13 years of publication experience, with a specialization in opinion-editorial. My government was among the first to commit to the coalition that would invade and occupy Afghanistan. My own views on foreign policy are decidedly non-interventionist—imagine if China waved a stick around and had the number of foreign bases the US does!—and I believe the false pretense of a false-flag operation on 9/11 was used to conjure legitimacy for an invasion that had nothing to do with smoking terrorists out of their holes and everything to do with a geo-strategic land grab, oil pipelines, opium farming, and war profiteering.

That said, I had no sympathy for the odious Taliban regime, which the United States helped create, so while I did oppose the Afghan invasion from the outset, my opposition was never vehement—like most of the civilized world, I too wanted to see the Taliban gone. But here we are eight years later, and they're not yet gone. But my buddy, Cpl. Keith Morley, whom I had known since sixth grade, is gone—struck down by an IED attack.

To paraphrase Ron Paul, we marched right in, we can march right back out. The Afghani state needs to employ its own internal security structure to deal with criminal activity by radical Islamists. The financial and human cost of the occupation—along with the tenacity of the insurgency—makes an immediate and total withdrawal the best option.



Skate videos have been downhill ever since 411VM #20

rawbertson.

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2009, 09:48:03 AM »
and im freeeee
freee falllllin!!
i love the part when the snares just start goin off like gats
I

Sleazy

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2009, 10:06:50 AM »
We were attacked by a plan masterminded from Afghanistan,

You still believe this? Really? Dudes in a cave across the world scheming to make NORAD stand down and causing buildings to collapse at near free-fall speed while displaying every characteristic of a controlled demolition? Nah, son.

I'm a Canadian citizen and a working writer with 13 years of publication experience, with a specialization in opinion-editorial. My government was among the first to commit to the coalition that would invade and occupy Afghanistan. My own views on foreign policy are decidedly non-interventionist—imagine if China waved a stick around and had the number of foreign bases the US does!—and I believe the false pretense of a false-flag operation on 9/11 was used to conjure legitimacy for an invasion that had nothing to do with smoking terrorists out of their holes and everything to do with a geo-strategic land grab, oil pipelines, opium farming, and war profiteering.

That said, I had no sympathy for the odious Taliban regime, which the United States helped create, so while I did oppose the Afghan invasion from the outset, my opposition was never vehement—like most of the civilized world, I too wanted to see the Taliban gone. But here we are eight years later, and they're not yet gone. But my buddy, Cpl. Keith Morley, whom I had known since sixth grade, is gone—struck down by an IED attack.

To paraphrase Ron Paul, we marched right in, we can march right back out. The Afghani state needs to employ its own internal security structure to deal with criminal activity by radical Islamists. The financial and human cost of the occupation—along with the tenacity of the insurgency—makes an immediate and total withdrawal the best option.


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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2009, 10:13:53 AM »
^That's been posted about a dozen times already. And it's never been more off topic than now. So if you're going to try to post something that makes me look stupid or invalidates my well-developed opinion, at least reach for something new:




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HATE!

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2009, 10:24:39 AM »
It's fighting an enemy we have nothing in common with aside from the fact that we are both humans.  That area of the world is SO far behind.  I was asked by an elder where we "fed and milked" our truck.  He'd never seen a vehicle.
I've lost friends, I've been hit by two IEDs, I've been rocketed, mortared, and shot at.  I've seen kids with missing limbs.  IEDs do not fuck with us as much as it does them, and they just don't get it. I am tired of it, I don't understand why we are still there.  I, personally, feel fine serving and protecting the country, but I feel no obligation to aid anyone else that cannot scratch our back either.  I don't feel the need to spend any more money fighting a battle stuck in a stalemate, when our country is economically having some problems.  That being said, I have no problem going anywhere in the world and putting the heat on anyone who fucks with my home.  But the strategy was a weak one at best.  I will go wherever my job sends me.  I do well at what I do.  I can deal with and see more than most.  But at the cost of what?  I have no issues with deploying and in fact I like it more than being here, but I have to look at the cost and effect, and right now I think we need to focus on getting the economy stable

crest

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2009, 10:28:35 AM »



lets get the fuck out the mid east

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2009, 10:40:33 AM »
I am an American citizen and currently am a graduate school student. I think the war in Afghanistan started off with a legitimate purpose and cause- to find a destroy Al Qaeda and its leadership after 9/11, and to take away its safe haven. But now look at it, Bin Laden isn't even in Afghanistan anymore, according to most recent reports. Even if he was, what is the message? Attack America and you have about a decade left to run? Things are deteriorating quickly in Afghanistan, a nation famous for being easy to get into, but impossible to get out of. Brits, Chinese, the USSR, and many other great powers have attacked Afghanistan to no avail. I see a fight for afghanistan as bloody and costly, and at this point, I don't see any benefit. I'm not sure what the cost of leaving would be, but I feel that at this point, it would be smartest if we just left.

You're a dork dude

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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2009, 11:23:58 AM »
I prefer nerd, but appreciate the sentiment.
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Re: I need some quick opinions on the war in afghanistan...
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2009, 05:27:24 PM »
When I said thermo device I meant a device that produces a large amount of heat, not necessarily nuclear.  A heat producing device would be used to A. burn out the inside of a cave, B. seal it off.  But it also burns people and sucks oxygen forcing those inside to asphyxiate.  Yeah, I know it is awful, but it's pretty much the only way you can successfully fight these people just shy of leveling the hindu kush mountains.

As for the media being uninvolved, until they can report ONLY the news and not put their own spin on it....  or even better, you don't need to know my mission plans or the routes I am taking.  Fuck you FOX, and fuck you CNN.  You are the reason why bad news is what sells these days.  Focus on some fucking postives and let me and mine worry about dealing with the shit you don't want to see.  I've seen these fucks several times over in country and twice they've asked my opinion and both times they've been told to fuck off.  Good luck skewing any of my views.

Thanks for clearing that up. Sorry for the misunderstanding.