Author Topic: Volcom: youth against independent business!  (Read 5819 times)

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Matze

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2006, 04:43:41 AM »
i get a blank shirt in 10 differrent colors with good quality and better cut for 4 euros.  at my local skateshop!

art hellman

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2006, 05:27:12 AM »
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well, i checked, and neither Verte nor Verde is a registered trademark......so, legally, there's nothing Verte can do to stop Verde from using their mark.  If Verte were to register its mark, then they could sue Volcom for the used of Verde....because both the meaning of the words and the logo themselves are substantially similar and could cause confusion with consumers.

so, if Verte is actually serious about it, they should register their mark and go after Volcom......the only problem is that Verte probably doesnt sell enough product to show any sort of "damages" due to Volcom's use of the Verde line....the best they could do is to try for an injunction.

but im sure just writing nasty notes on the internet is satisfaction enough

[close]
You don't need a trade mark, you just need to prove "first use" of the mark. With 5 years of similar product in the market, I think Verte could prove "first use."

actually, you do need to register your trademark before you can sue........once you register, then you can sue, and then you use "first use" as an argument.   And it's not always just about who used it first, you'd also have to show that your use of the mark is what consumers think of when they see the other mark.  You'd also have to be able to show the marketing behind your mark and that your mark is more prominent in the certain geographic areas you are looking to protect.

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donnie_murdo

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2006, 06:50:55 AM »
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well, i checked, and neither Verte nor Verde is a registered trademark......so, legally, there's nothing Verte can do to stop Verde from using their mark.  If Verte were to register its mark, then they could sue Volcom for the used of Verde....because both the meaning of the words and the logo themselves are substantially similar and could cause confusion with consumers.

so, if Verte is actually serious about it, they should register their mark and go after Volcom......the only problem is that Verte probably doesnt sell enough product to show any sort of "damages" due to Volcom's use of the Verde line....the best they could do is to try for an injunction.

but im sure just writing nasty notes on the internet is satisfaction enough

[close]
You don't need a trade mark, you just need to prove "first use" of the mark. With 5 years of similar product in the market, I think Verte could prove "first use."
[close]

actually, you do need to register your trademark before you can sue........once you register, then you can sue, and then you use "first use" as an argument.   And it's not always just about who used it first, you'd also have to show that your use of the mark is what consumers think of when they see the other mark.  You'd also have to be able to show the marketing behind your mark and that your mark is more prominent in the certain geographic areas you are looking to protect.



SO. . .

After registering both names for myself and as clothing companies, i think i'm going to get my "sue on" AMERICAN STYLE ! ! !
...can't believe this thread brought Donnie Murdo out of the woodwork!

Cliche Guevara

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2006, 07:03:43 AM »
A story that sort of falls in line with the topic.

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/articles/060822fege01

Blackacre

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2006, 07:24:32 AM »
I hope your not an IP lawyer Art.  The general premise of US trademark law is that registration of a trademark under the Lanham Act merely recognizes the trademark rights that exist at common law. The US system is called a “use-based system”.  In most other countries trademark rights are acquired through registration (“registration-based systems”).  Certain advantages are gained through trademark registration under the Lanham Act, but registration is not a prerequisite to bringing an action for trademark infringement in the US. 

The use “in commerce” requirement ensures that the federal trademark regime remains within Congress’s Commerce Clause powers. Use determines who initially owns federal trademark rights. As a general rule, actual trademark use is a prerequisite for obtaining federal common law trademark rights.  Either actual or constructive trademark use is a prerequisite for applying for rights under a federal registration.  However, first use is not the only factor that is determinative of a trademark infringement action, there are several other factors and test that would be involved depending upon the jurisdiction in which the action is brought.

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donnie_murdo

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2006, 07:29:27 AM »
A story that sort of falls in line with the topic.

http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/articles/060822fege01

Well it is the highest form of flatery
« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 09:33:57 AM by donnie_murdo »
...can't believe this thread brought Donnie Murdo out of the woodwork!

jorelskate

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2006, 09:42:37 AM »
this has gotta be topic of the year.  Helluva lot better than "new grom i think is rad", "this other guys new shoe", "Chris Cole on DGK!".  The first topic on slap i might have actually learned something.

art hellman

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2006, 10:35:39 AM »
I hope your not an IP lawyer Art.  The general premise of US trademark law is that registration of a trademark under the Lanham Act merely recognizes the trademark rights that exist at common law. The US system is called a “use-based system”.  In most other countries trademark rights are acquired through registration (“registration-based systems”).  Certain advantages are gained through trademark registration under the Lanham Act, but registration is not a prerequisite to bringing an action for trademark infringement in the US. 

The use “in commerce” requirement ensures that the federal trademark regime remains within Congress’s Commerce Clause powers. Use determines who initially owns federal trademark rights. As a general rule, actual trademark use is a prerequisite for obtaining federal common law trademark rights.  Either actual or constructive trademark use is a prerequisite for applying for rights under a federal registration.  However, first use is not the only factor that is determinative of a trademark infringement action, there are several other factors and test that would be involved depending upon the jurisdiction in which the action is brought.



hmmm....i didnt know it was going to be a battle of IP Law outlines.....and no, I'm not a practicing IP attorney, but I am a young fledging law student with IP experience


.....so, please, when you return, continue with your lecture.........but until then.......let me continue with actual ways to try and protect the mark.

anyways, while registration may not be a "requirement" before bringing suit for trademark use....with a case like Verte v. Verde...the actual "use" of the mark for Verte is so small that it is unlikely that Verte could provide enough evidence to stop Verde from continuing with their clothing line.  So, it would be to Verte's advantage to register its mark, if not only to bolster the strength of its mark, but also to automatically confer nationwide protection of the mark.  Registrations is never a bad idea.

Seriously, how can you hate on registration?   It's been established that there is use (or at least an intent to use) the Verde mark, so there's nothing stopping registration.  Registration is prima facie evidence of validity and grants to owner the exclusive right to use the mark.......which would help in case where there is a weak showing of evidence under 43(a) and  Section and section 32 of the Lanham Act.

However, Verde does have some support in the case law.  Just look at AMF v. Sleekcraft (case where P used name Slickcraft, and D used Sleekcraft, in which the court found likelihood of confusion).  Or look at Death Cig v. Black Death Vodka, in which the court found likelihood of confusion b/c of relatedness and similarity of consumers.  That would be the best arugment to push.....the fact that Volcom is basically poaching consumers away from Verte....but, again, Verte would have to show that there were actually consumers who were purchasing their product to begin with (and not just giving shirts away to your "bros").

The most likely argument that would prevail would be reverse-confusion.....basically you'd argue exactly what's in the "angry internet message" and claim that Volcom swooped in with their Verde line and as a result is causing people to think that Verte is the infringer.

but hey.....blackacre obviously has it covered



« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 11:43:54 AM by art hellman »
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Blackacre

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2006, 11:00:39 AM »
I did not say that Verte should not obtain a registration for their mark, I just said that it was not a prerequisite for a trademark infringement action.  No offense but you really don't know what you are talking about. You are confusing concepts all over the place.  I am not saying that to be an asshole, it simply is true


One small issue in this case - foreign words are translated to English as long as the word comes from a living language before they are evaluated for trademarking by the PTO, and in trademark infringement actions when courts are comparing marks.
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art hellman

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2006, 11:11:05 AM »
ok...so im just throwing out whatever I remember from last year, but really, it's not like I've retained the SLAP messageboard as a client and I'm writing a memorandum.  i'm also not trying to be an ass.....well, maybe just a little.

Blackacre, are you a lawyer?  Because I will concede that you know your stuff.

So, what are you saying with the foreign translation issue?  That both companies are essentially using the mark "green"?  How would that affect the case, if say, Verte did in fact bring a suit? 

let's join forces.....im sure there will be plenty of attorneys fees for the both of us.




« Last Edit: September 12, 2006, 11:42:33 AM by art hellman »
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gub

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2006, 12:05:12 PM »
Sueing shouldn't have to be involved.

well, the skate industry is too weak to solve differences by fighting anymore...

Cliche Guevara

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2006, 12:47:16 PM »
"So I thought for a second that Volcom was going to drop VERDE...and everything was going to be cool...
That's what they told all the shops in NY, but that was a LIE! they were just saying that so the shops would order clothes... They really did that!  HOW FUCKED UP IS THAT? WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WOULD DO THAT?

(now I'm pissed obviously!)
I also like how Volcom was like "we've never even heard of Verte... it's all a misunderstanding" but in the same conversation are like "we're really bummed that Patrick made a page about it on his website, because a lot of people that work here look at Epicly Later'd"....

uhh so your telling me you look at my website and have never heard of VERTE! I link to their site all the time!  Someone is wearing a Verte shirt on almost every page!

Ok.. so you guy's are either shitty plagiarists or you live under a rock...Verte sells at Supreme, aNYthing, KCDC, Autumn and a ton of other places and Volcom had a fucking apartment here two summers in row... are you telling me you never noticed it?

Sorry to get so steamed!  But seriously, I hope the Razo's sue the shit out of them... imagine building a brand up from the ground for 5 years only to have it ripped off by a company that's traded on NASDAQ and sold in malls?  Surfer brahs and jocks across the world are going to be wearing their shit! Their brand and trademark is going to be worthless! Who is going to want to buy a Verte shirt when you're confused and think it's something you saw on a bus-stop advertisement?  Volcom is a HUGE international corporation and I am NOT down for them stealing from my friends!

it's like a family here..."


Oh boy.

Blackacre

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2006, 12:50:07 PM »
No, I have no interest in this Verte thing anymore.  After seeing their website and the "Fall 06 Look Book" I have determined them to be quite wack.



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art hellman

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2006, 12:55:58 PM »
too bad.....coulda been sweet.

hardly art, hardly starving


donnie_murdo

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2006, 02:01:10 PM »
yeah as soon as i saw the site i was over it pretty damn quick
...can't believe this thread brought Donnie Murdo out of the woodwork!

MEATLOAF

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2006, 04:43:12 PM »
Verte is not my style, but I think it's pretty damn awesome. Volcom should know better especially since all their riders are always on O'Dell's site.

clientele.

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2006, 04:47:27 PM »
bummer.

SLAP is for the haters.

Sheep

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2006, 06:09:29 PM »
I have a feeling neither Verte nor Verde could even get registered if they wanted to. I can almost guarantee someone else has already locked those names down, or something similar.

Verte is sold in a few select skate shops, Verde is being marketed to skate shops now. They are overlapping. Someone's gonna disappear and I guarantee it won't be Volcom.

For any young entrepreneurs out there thinking of starting up your own deal, or those of you who are already doing your own thing...all you can do is hope Volcom doesn't like what you're doing and set their sights on you next!

bentmode

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2006, 07:01:12 PM »
oh shit...someone has to come up w. 'merde' shirts...with a brown font...


hhahahah shit.
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joudan

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2006, 02:54:38 AM »
Yeah, I heard they are going to sell Volcom at Costco next year... Just like Quik and DC.  I can't wait til when my mom gives me a volcom sweatshirt for Xmas.

mongopusher

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2006, 11:34:53 AM »
too bad.....coulda been sweet.


art, what language is this?are you swedish or something?

art hellman

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2006, 11:53:06 AM »
Nr., bin ich nicht schwedisches....but, das ich in Norwegen für einen Sommer wohnte und während dieser Zeit besichtigte ich das reizende Land von Swedin. Tatsächlich habe ich jedes Land in Scandanavia besichtigt.
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gub

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Re: Volcom: youth against independent business!
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2006, 11:54:31 AM »
the only language scrooge mcduck speaks is the language of money