Author Topic: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT  (Read 232973 times)

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kamltoe

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #900 on: August 17, 2011, 04:06:10 PM »
Yeah, usually when people post youtube videos in an internet debate it's a bullshit move, but this is a bit different, considering in the videos they actually go to the sweatshops and interview the people who work there. Turns out the results from that paint a much different picture than the one you do. But then again, who should we trust about what it's like to work in a sweat shop? On one hand we have you and Nike PR reports and on the other we have people who actually work there. Gee, this is a tough one. Let me get back to you on this.
haha, youre funny. like the media can't skew a story as well by interviewing the 15% of disgruntled workers instead of the 85% of the ones that like their jobs. i could make a video of any company that paints the same picture right here in the US. also, my point wasn't that it doesn't suck, but that it's ultimately not the responsibility of the companies (though they do have to answer for who they contract to), but rather the countries and the legislative bodies that allow this shit to thrive as a culture for their own profits. like china spent all those years devaluing their currency for the good of the people? please.

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Have you ever actually considered that the factory owners take the Nike inspectors(and most investigators) on phony tours? Or threaten their workers that if they accurately describe their conditions that they will be beaten or fired? Do these thoughts ever cross your mind?  But you know, whatever.

of course. that's why they got in house inspectors in the first place. so they could do a better job of policing the spots as the chinese guys who were previously hired were in on the sham from the get-go. but again, you can only do so much when you're not the man on the ground, especially when you have the fucking world bank backing the scam team. god, you can't be this dense.

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It's funny to think about how many millions Nike spends on just avoiding paying people livable wages. How much would it increase the pay of a Nike factory worker, if instead of spending all the millions they spend on PR and these factory inspections, they just gave  the money to those factory workers? What would it increase their pay by if you split it evenly amongst them I wonder?

see the problem is the chain of command. if they stopped the inspections there would be almost 100% corruption at the top tier (not saying there isn't any now mind you). and nike doesn't cut the workers their checks because they don't own the manufacturing business. they pay the business money and the business pays the workers. without the Pr and oversight, nike could pay the factories whatever the hell they want and it would only mean the mgmt team would get more. the workers would be more fucked than ever. period. there's no way you could be dense enough to think that throwing money in the general direction is the solution.

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Am I missing something here? Corporations know the facts that you describe. Everyone does. It's known that operating costs are nothing in countries where you don't have to worry about workplace standards or regulations. That's why the corporations moved their production there in the first place. It's not like corporations are some metaphoric ostrich who just assume the factories they use have found some magical formula to produce their goods at prices no humane countries can. They are aware that it costs money to pay your workers a decent wage, they are aware it costs money to make your factory conditions safe and not insanely hot, they are aware that it costs money to put in fire exits or to build a factory to code so it doesn't spontaneously collapse. Nike and other corporations do not want to pay these costs. So they don't. They move productions to countries where they know workplace conditions are terrible. So for them, and you, to then say "well geez it's really the factory owners who are responsible for this... we just wanted to pay them next-to-nothing, we didn't know anything about the squalid conditions!" ...Is about as dumb as you can get. Don't be this stupid or a corporate apologist. It's gross.

yep you're missing the entire fucking point of the issue here. i'm not a corporate apologist at all. i'm a regular informed citizen with the clarity of vision to see the difference between a corporate issue and a global cultural issue. the issue of working conditions in third world countries is NOT a corporate issue. the business world will take advantage of the conditions put in place by the world bank and it's cronies, but they are not the problem nor will they ever be a significant part of the solution. the solution needs to come from the top down and that won't happen as long as the focus stays on the symptoms instead of the root cause.

it's like cursing the snot for giving you a cold. backwards as hell.

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Yeah they've had a real rough go of it. I shed a tear for them nightly.

cry me a fucking river. i didn't even insinuate that they had a rough time, just that they've responded in mostly positive ways to the criticism (recently) and actually took action to correct what they could without fucking themselves over. 

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Um... Are you fucking kidding? Everyone is criticizing the WTO and NAFTA for this and other policies. Of course not everyone knows exactly why their factory shut down, those that are able to find out why are pretty fucking bummed.  And it's not like these policies force corporations to move their production. They have a choice. They've decided to increase their profits off the backs of some desperate slaves all the way on the other side of the world... Everybody wins! Wait... what? What's called globalization is a massive castatrofuck for the majority of the world, and certainly for American workers. Also for the environment, which suffers greatly when pollution is increased and massive amounts of resources are used needlessly transporting goods all the way across the world that could have been produced here. Estimates put the figure over 3 million jarbs in the past decade alone have been outsourced. What's our unemployment rate again? You're a straight up idiot if you think this has been good for american society, or even the american economy. It's been great if you own stock in Nike, or are Phil Knight, or want a slightly cheaper pair of shoes. Otherwise, fuck no. It's been terrible.

i meant people criticizing on slap.

and yes the policies do force the hand of business. it goes like this. the policies move the markets, and the markets guide the hand of business. also, their profits aren't increasing that much, it's mostly just keeping up with the market to keep your margins where they are. now the eighties, those were some times of heady profits. nowadays? not so much. and when did i say any of this was good for american society? we're fucked just like every other society in the world right now. we're undergoing a global implementation of a financial caste system right now and the rich don't give a fuck where you live. are you kidding me? how can you say all that and still think of this as a corporate issue? the companies cant solve this any more than a boycott could solve the race issues in the sixties. they can make their voices heard, but it's the ruling bodies that have the power to change the way the shit really goes down. and i think in that respect, nike has made more noise than most, so i give them credit for that.

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Certainly there are worse offenders. This thread is about Koston, and Nike was brought up.

fair enough.


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Oy vey. Are you a libertarian?

no.

k

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Classic keyboard skate champion talk right there.

you need to stop thinking people do what you tell them bc they dont.

sixpackoftablets

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #901 on: August 17, 2011, 04:43:59 PM »
Dear Girl Skateboards:

I have always wanted to buy a Mike Carroll, Anderson or even an Olson deck from your company (8.5" please). I have followed MC's career for 20 years.

But I haven't bought one, because your product is wack chinese shit.

Now I have another reason not to.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #902 on: August 17, 2011, 05:32:19 PM »
Dear Girl Skateboards:
That would probably be more effective if you sent it to Girl instead of posting it here.

NickDagger

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #903 on: August 17, 2011, 06:02:10 PM »
Expand Quote
Yeah, usually when people post youtube videos in an internet debate it's a bullshit move, but this is a bit different, considering in the videos they actually go to the sweatshops and interview the people who work there. Turns out the results from that paint a much different picture than the one you do. But then again, who should we trust about what it's like to work in a sweat shop? On one hand we have you and Nike PR reports and on the other we have people who actually work there. Gee, this is a tough one. Let me get back to you on this.
[close]
haha, youre funny. like the media can't skew a story as well by interviewing the 15% of disgruntled workers instead of the 85% of the ones that like their jobs. i could make a video of any company that paints the same picture right here in the US. also, my point wasn't that it doesn't suck, but that it's ultimately not the responsibility of the companies (though they do have to answer for who they contract to), but rather the countries and the legislative bodies that allow this shit to thrive as a culture for their own profits. like china spent all those years devaluing their currency for the good of the people? please.

Basically what you're saying here, is that it's not Nike's problem that they use exploitative labor, because ultimately it's governmental and trade organizational policies that create conditions so miserable that people are willing to work in the sweat shops in the first place. I do not and will never agree with this.

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Have you ever actually considered that the factory owners take the Nike inspectors(and most investigators) on phony tours? Or threaten their workers that if they accurately describe their conditions that they will be beaten or fired? Do these thoughts ever cross your mind?  But you know, whatever.
[close]


of course. that's why they got in house inspectors in the first place. so they could do a better job of policing the spots as the chinese guys who were previously hired were in on the sham from the get-go. but again, you can only do so much when you're not the man on the ground, especially when you have the fucking world bank backing the scam team. god, you can't be this dense.

How did the in house inspectors miss the human trafficking in Malaysia again?

And again, while I basically agree with you that WTO and other policies are at fault here as much as anyone. That doesn't excuse Nike of paying people pennys while spending millions to make it look like they aren't. I know it make sense on some corporate .pdf somewhere. But if you could stop and actually just think about that for a second, I feel you'd probably get it too. Maybe.


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It's funny to think about how many millions Nike spends on just avoiding paying people livable wages. How much would it increase the pay of a Nike factory worker, if instead of spending all the millions they spend on PR and these factory inspections, they just gave  the money to those factory workers? What would it increase their pay by if you split it evenly amongst them I wonder?


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see the problem is the chain of command. if they stopped the inspections there would be almost 100% corruption at the top tier (not saying there isn't any now mind you). and nike doesn't cut the workers their checks because they don't own the manufacturing business. they pay the business money and the business pays the workers. without the Pr and oversight, nike could pay the factories whatever the hell they want and it would only mean the mgmt team would get more. the workers would be more fucked than ever. period. there's no way you could be dense enough to think that throwing money in the general direction is the solution.

I liked this paragraph. It's almost as if you're accidentally arguing against Nike using slumlord exploitative factories without even knowing it! That you're saying Nike couldn't even pay their workers better if they wanted to because of the sketchy factories they use, is the problem.


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Am I missing something here? Corporations know the facts that you describe. Everyone does. It's known that operating costs are nothing in countries where you don't have to worry about workplace standards or regulations. That's why the corporations moved their production there in the first place. It's not like corporations are some metaphoric ostrich who just assume the factories they use have found some magical formula to produce their goods at prices no humane countries can. They are aware that it costs money to pay your workers a decent wage, they are aware it costs money to make your factory conditions safe and not insanely hot, they are aware that it costs money to put in fire exits or to build a factory to code so it doesn't spontaneously collapse. Nike and other corporations do not want to pay these costs. So they don't. They move productions to countries where they know workplace conditions are terrible. So for them, and you, to then say "well geez it's really the factory owners who are responsible for this... we just wanted to pay them next-to-nothing, we didn't know anything about the squalid conditions!" ...Is about as dumb as you can get. Don't be this stupid or a corporate apologist. It's gross.

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yep you're missing the entire fucking point of the issue here. i'm not a corporate apologist at all. i'm a regular informed citizen with the clarity of vision to see the difference between a corporate issue and a global cultural issue. the issue of working conditions in third world countries is NOT a corporate issue. the business world will take advantage of the conditions put in place by the world bank and it's cronies, but they are not the problem nor will they ever be a significant part of the solution. the solution needs to come from the top down and that won't happen as long as the focus stays on the symptoms instead of the root cause.

Meh, again you're right about the root causes but that's not to say we shouldn't expose wrong when we see it and hope the policies which in part lead to them one day get changed. Why do you think the WTO policies are the way they are? Corporations write them brah. Embarrassing the fuck out of them to the point that they have to spend so much it's more cost effective to either move production back here or actually take care of their workers elsewhere has as much of a chance as affecting changing as just constantly screaming about the WTO. We actually know people like Eric and can say shit about sweat shops. Who do I contact about the WTO? Hold on I'll email my congressman!
"DIS YA BOI NICK DAGGAL" -Arto Saari


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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #904 on: August 17, 2011, 06:17:52 PM »
Bottom line is that Koston is acting EXTREMELY unprofessional. I don't want my skaters being wholesome or anything but anyone w/ any kind of job in the public eye has to have some kind of integrity. He's on some Youtube comments section shit at this point.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #905 on: August 17, 2011, 09:21:02 PM »
Nick Dagger is on it.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #906 on: August 17, 2011, 10:00:41 PM »
Like Daewon said: if skateboarding is a ten story building, Rodney is on eleventh floor.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #907 on: August 17, 2011, 10:40:44 PM »
Expand Quote
"erickoston I've been busy all day u assholes. Still am.... @bif_loves_skateboarding you fuckin rule! @Josh_maier you're a FAGGOT and you're profile pic looks like you have downs syndrome. Fuckin pussy!"

I just keep losing respect for Koston.
[close]


Holy shit.  He actually posted that? Calling someone a "FAGGOT?" Wow. Pretty amazed/ashamed.

I was actually talking about him making fun of down syndrome.

NowhereInLife

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #908 on: August 17, 2011, 10:45:30 PM »
I'm hoping they properly rename this thread: Life Lessons From a Living Legend. 

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #909 on: August 17, 2011, 10:52:18 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
"erickoston I've been busy all day u assholes. Still am.... @bif_loves_skateboarding you fuckin rule! @Josh_maier you're a FAGGOT and you're profile pic looks like you have downs syndrome. Fuckin pussy!"

I just keep losing respect for Koston.
[close]


Holy shit.  He actually posted that? Calling someone a "FAGGOT?" Wow. Pretty amazed/ashamed.

[close]
I was actually talking about him making fun of down syndrome.


It's not like I needed another reason to not buy girl or nike, but Koston's really not helping any.

JefCostello

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #910 on: August 18, 2011, 01:33:49 AM »
This may be abp but just in case, this is from a few weeks ago. Leo's been taking some pretty good swings too:

« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 01:37:48 AM by JefCostello »

wigs

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #911 on: August 18, 2011, 03:30:41 AM »
leo romero and eric koston in the year 2011:
leo romero drops EIGHTEEN MINUTES of face melting skateboard footage.
eric koston drops a THIRTY PLUS PAGE THREAD about how he has fallen from being a well respected pro to becoming an IGNORANT HOMOPHOBIC EGOTISTICAL piece of shit "pro".

Badmeaningood

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #912 on: August 18, 2011, 06:44:15 AM »
Koston really is crending deep!

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #913 on: August 18, 2011, 07:08:35 AM »
Oh man... Rereading my posts in this thread... I guess when I'm really sleepy I turn into the Gipper, jesus.

"DIS YA BOI NICK DAGGAL" -Arto Saari


The Ghost of Lenny Kirk

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #914 on: August 18, 2011, 07:16:17 AM »
micky reyes (mickeydlx)- "that's what you get when you quit thunder"  i hope he's not serious.

who is koston tweeting to exactly? because when i click on @the_tempster and @stupidface  it takes me to some regular new orleans rapper and wesley temps not ed or leo.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #915 on: August 18, 2011, 07:20:53 AM »
Every sport has rivalries. Now that Street League is here, why can't we have some? Go home team!

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #916 on: August 18, 2011, 07:25:02 AM »
Koston is ashaming himself so bad, making fun of diseases in a really bad way, but what this really shows is how inferior he is. Someone has to show him some ethics and force him to apologize in public. Sad.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #917 on: August 18, 2011, 07:44:46 AM »
this is worse than the time koston had beef with iggy van zan about digging up green pipes point
skating is all about choosing your outfit very deliberately, going out in public. looking super sick. and then riding your board a little bit

The Twilight Zone

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #918 on: August 18, 2011, 08:01:05 AM »
this is worse than the time koston had beef with iggy van zan about digging up green pipes point

oh my god hahahaha

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #919 on: August 18, 2011, 08:50:38 AM »
these dudes should put the phones down and take it to the ring.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #920 on: August 18, 2011, 08:54:19 AM »
these dudes should put the phones down and skate.
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kamltoe

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #921 on: August 18, 2011, 08:57:34 AM »
Basically what you're saying here, is that it's not Nike's problem that they use exploitative labor, because ultimately it's governmental and trade organizational policies that create conditions so miserable that people are willing to work in the sweat shops in the first place. I do not and will never agree with this.

nope, you're confused again. it's not nike's responsibility to solve the issues of exploitative labor. it is however their problem that their brand is associated with those practices and they've responded by trying to solve the problems in some novel and interesting ways. just because they aren't doing exactly what you think they should be doing (which you still haven't made clear) is no reason to assert that they're the problem itself. clear now?

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How did the in house inspectors miss the human trafficking in Malaysia again?

i'll let you answer this one. "Have you ever actually considered that the factory owners take the Nike inspectors(and most investigators) on phony tours?" you made that one too easy.

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And again, while I basically agree with you that WTO and other policies are at fault here as much as anyone. That doesn't excuse Nike of paying people pennys while spending millions to make it look like they aren't. I know it make sense on some corporate .pdf somewhere. But if you could stop and actually just think about that for a second, I feel you'd probably get it too. Maybe.

first, the WTO and policies are ENTIRELY at fault. no one else involved even comes close. second, the pay scale is not set by nike. its set by the govt and business owners in their respective countries. if you can find a factory anywhere in america that can handle the volume they require and do it for anything even near the price, let me know. oh yah, there aren't any. china, vietnam, pakistan, thailand all spent years subduing their people, their currency, their respective labor markets and influencing trade agreements via the WTO to position themselves where they are. now there simply aren't any options left on the table that make sense when it comes to the kind of volume they demand. i mean, you're not going to buy shoes at twice the price, so they can't feasibly make them at twice the price. you don't need a corporate spreadsheet to know that.

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I liked this paragraph. It's almost as if you're accidentally arguing against Nike using slumlord exploitative factories without even knowing it! That you're saying Nike couldn't even pay their workers better if they wanted to because of the sketchy factories they use, is the problem.

not what i'm saying. i'm saying that most, if not all, of the factories out there that can do that kind of volume are that way and that it's pretty much sanctioned via the govt there under the influence of the WTO and world bank policy. if there's only peanuts on the table, you can't just decide to eat almonds.



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Meh, again you're right about the root causes but that's not to say we shouldn't expose wrong when we see it and hope the policies which in part lead to them one day get changed.

totally agree.

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Why do you think the WTO policies are the way they are? Corporations write them brah.

true, but i think using the general word "corporations" without making a distinction between which ones are actively involved in the policy process is unfair and naive. talk about walmart, talk about target, talk about the people who actually have members on those boards that actually make that happen. but give credit where it's due when there is action in the other direction. demonizing and generalizing has never helped any cause. informed and specific criticism, and sustained pressure is what works. and it's this method, incidentally, that got nike to go from being the flamethrowing assholes they were, to getting into the good fight (not exactly on the front line and doing what they could from where they stand. so the proofs in the pudding.

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Embarrassing the fuck out of them to the point that they have to spend so much it's more cost effective to either move production back here or actually take care of their workers elsewhere has as much of a chance as affecting changing as just constantly screaming about the WTO. We actually know people like Eric and can say shit about sweat shops. Who do I contact about the WTO? Hold on I'll email my congressman!

true. but again, thats what they're already doing. they were embarrassed by their own responses and media attention they got in the early days of "fuck nike" when all they were doing was attack ads and shit. then someone got the bright idea to actually do something about the problem and as far as i can see, they're doing a lot. they may or may not be doing enough, but then again, i wasn't arguing that they were the saviour of the sweatshops. i'm just saying given their recent progress, the demonizing is a bit out of place. give credit where it's due. have you even seen the factories that lakai uses? soletech? any other company? nope, because it's not in the media and no one posted a video of them on youtube. which means your viewpoint is still that of a pawn because they got you looking right with the media hype and there's more real shit happening on the left.

k

Quote from: The Gipper

Classic keyboard skate champion talk right there.

you need to stop thinking people do what you tell them bc they dont.

kamltoe

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #922 on: August 18, 2011, 08:59:38 AM »
Oh man... Rereading my posts in this thread... I guess when I'm really sleepy I turn into the Gipper, jesus.



 ha! i had the same feeling before posting that last one. but i still think it was a pretty constructive argument in a thread about twitter-gram. and i like your points too even if I disagree in certain ways.

k

Quote from: The Gipper

Classic keyboard skate champion talk right there.

you need to stop thinking people do what you tell them bc they dont.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #923 on: August 18, 2011, 10:53:54 AM »
This may be abp but just in case, this is from a few weeks ago. Leo's been taking some pretty good swings too:




What else has Leo said?

Buddy G

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #924 on: August 18, 2011, 11:10:38 AM »
why are people on slap pretending to get angry about koston saying faggot or person?

because they like leo and alex's hair?

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #925 on: August 18, 2011, 11:16:06 AM »
why are people on slap pretending to get angry about koston saying faggot or person?

because they like leo and alex's hair?

NO YOU FUCKING regular FAGGOT!!!!  we like leo's mustache.

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #926 on: August 18, 2011, 11:21:49 AM »
I don't know man. Maybe if it was '93 and Koston (or whoever) was throwing around those types of insults, it wouldn't seem like a big deal to me. But in this day and age, and how skateboarding is now (population-wise, how it's seen by common folk, the corp sponsors), it just seems like it's a bad idea for a big name pro with sponsors such as his, to go spouting off insults like that. On one hand, maybe more people should do it so the world would go back to leaving skaters alone (apart from busting us), but otherwise I don't see it as a smart move.


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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #927 on: August 18, 2011, 12:22:52 PM »
I don't know man. Maybe if it was '93 and Koston (or whoever) was throwing around those types of insults, it wouldn't seem like a big deal to me. But in this day and age, and how skateboarding is now (population-wise, how it's seen by common folk, the corp sponsors), it just seems like it's a bad idea for a big name pro with sponsors such as his, to go spouting off insults like that. On one hand, maybe more people should do it so the world would go back to leaving skaters alone (apart from busting us), but otherwise I don't see it as a smart move.


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NowhereInLife

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #928 on: August 18, 2011, 01:40:56 PM »
koston is just proving he's as gifted at trolling as he is at board flipping.  lulz.

Slowerpide

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Re: BITTER LITTLE SPOILED FUCKIN' BRAT
« Reply #929 on: August 18, 2011, 03:09:42 PM »
I would absolutely lose it if Koston wearing a black hoody proceeds to make a black and white video on the berrics saying he's sorry about everything he's done.