Author Topic: Election 2012  (Read 1099 times)

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Eschaton

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Election 2012
« on: December 29, 2011, 11:02:41 PM »
So I havn't seen a topic on this yet. Who do you guys think is going to get the Republican nomination? Who are you guys voting for in 2012? I believe Obama has not held up his promises and has actually been worse than Bush on many fronts. I would have a hard time voting for him again. This may be the first time I vote third party, which everyone will say is throwing away my vote.

filter

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 11:31:45 PM »
i predict romney getting the nomination and beating obama. everyone hates him but he's a corporate drone who'll serve the corporations and thats all that matters. plus lots of people will vote republican to spite obama for being incompetent

grimcity

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 11:32:55 PM »
It'll be Mitt Romney vs. Obama, and Obama will win.

It's hard to unseat an incumbent, and even though Governors tend to win more often than former legislators (sans incumbents), Mitt won't really get the rabid support he'd need to take it. If Ron Paul decides to do what Gary Johnson did and run as a Libertarian candidate, he'll split up the conservative vote like Ross Perot did in '92.

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 11:06:57 AM »
It'll be Mitt Romney vs. Obama, and Obama will win.

It's hard to unseat an incumbent, and even though Governors tend to win more often than former legislators (sans incumbents), Mitt won't really get the rabid support he'd need to take it. If Ron Paul decides to do what Gary Johnson did and run as a Libertarian candidate, he'll split up the conservative vote like Ross Perot did in '92.

Nail in the head.  If Obama really wanted to win (which i'm not sure he does) he would replace Biden with Hillary Clinton and seal the deal.  I just wish washington as a whole would be more productive and move toward a common goal of fixing the economy from the ground up. 

chockfullofthat

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 11:42:15 AM »
I think I will skip voting for president for the second consecutive time I'm eligible to vote.  The first time was laziness.  I knew Obama would win Illinois and I didn't want to fill out an absentee ballot, nor was I interested.  This time I won't be voting because Obama will win Illinois easily and I don't back any of the canditates.  It seems that Ron Paul is the only one with an independent, thoughtful brain when it comes to foreign policy although he is a racist, crazy man.  Obama has been very disapointing with his foreign policy and it looks like both him and the Republicans are positioning for a bloody war with Iran.  This "Human Rights" garbage that they spew from their mouths is such bullshit and oh so selective.  Hilary Clinton likes to scold China on this but yet we just sold billions of dollars of fighter jets to Saudi Arabia, surely one of the worst offenders.  Sure it would be hard to leave Afghanistan in the current state it's in, but's it's going to be even harder when Pakistan militias up their efforts.  He didn't get us into this mess but he's certainly tangling the web.

As far as the economy, Obama isn't getting it done at the moment but how much can you really blame on him?  Not really my area of expertise but it just seems like it's more of an issue caused by partisan politics rather than who's in office.  Fuck Michelle Bachman and Rick Perry.  That's all.  Oh...Mormons are weird.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 11:43:51 AM by chockfullofthat »

grimcity

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 02:00:17 PM »
Our biggest problem is the Congress being locked up by insane Tea Partiers... they can't even get their shit straight with their fellow Republicans in the Senate, so the entire House has been fucked since the Republican sweep. I've read some pieces that forecast a Republican takeover of the Senate as well, so we can pretty much expect a continued attempt at eradicating the middle class, or at least have said middle class under water. They want a caste system, and they don't even hide it.

sleepypancakes

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 11:29:33 AM »
The unemployment rate is still under 10% which means that Obama still has a decent shot at winning as an incumbent because it is roughly the same although a bit higher than it was when he took office. The republican party is very incongruous in its beliefs and is very hard to keep straight and realize what the party wants as a whole and I think that this may disassociate many voters. Romney will win the nomination, Ron Paul is fucking batshit crazy, as are Perry and Bachmann. Gingrich is just an asshole. Voting third party isn't exactly a waste of a vote either because if enough people do it it sends more a message to the 2 parties that they don't have unwavering citizen support any more.

happenstance

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2011, 01:08:15 PM »
Being a very politically motivated individual, I find myself really disheartened by Obama's first term. It was easy to support him (the Democrats or any person that has a desire to lead this nation for that matter) when I have only been old enough to vote - and following politics - since about 2003. With his continuation of Bush's policies of torture, limiting personal freedoms, war (news flash! we didn't end the Iraq war, the Iraqis did) and serving organized interests (e.g. - taking away the state's right to price bargaining for Medicare with the prescription drug companies) I have completely lost faith in my country. I mean, my faith in American foreign policy has always been shot but it was easy to blame these things on some 'bad apples' and not a larger systemic problem. The same could be said for my views on domestic policy. Maybe I was being naive, especially since I was a student of political science (if that counts for anything), but now I finally feel like there is nothing worth supporting in our government. I am not sure if I am going to vote for president in the next election. If I do it will be a third party candidate. Have any of you had similar feelings about our nation and its political system?

Edit: I mean, our political system is hemmed in on all sides from different interests to the point where all politicians have to operate within boundaries of fantasy. You can't be anti-Israel because of the Israeli lobby. Very few can ever vote against military spending bills (even when this years NDAA had some very scary measures in it) because military contractors purposefully spread their production into as many congressional districts and states as possible making congressman/senators too afraid to 'vote against local jobs' (what Chalmers Johnson refers to as political engineering). Given current senate rules on cloture (basically becoming the de facto role call vote [as in it takes 60 votes to pass anything]) coupled with the increasing polarization of our political parties (as in there is a lot of space on a left right continuum between the two parties) you basically have to water down any bill so much to the point where it is worthless just to reach for that 60th vote (Obamacare is a perfect example... I will spare you on its flaws but they are innumerable). Basically we can't get anything done, the system is completely rigged and no politician has any desire to change it because it would mean the end of their careers and they would more than likely fail anyway. I mean shit. Shit is all fucked up and shit. I am bummed and don't know if I want to ever vote again. Not sure to what level I will take that. Probably still down for local issues and state propositions but that is about all.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 01:19:04 PM by happenstance »

weedpop

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2011, 01:21:38 PM »
The problem is, and perhaps always has been, the system. No one can actually get elected president and effect meaningful change without being utterly crucified and having their political career ruined by the interests that helped elect them and that essentially run the government: the "defense"/homeland security establishment, big finance, big pharma, energy corporations etc. In my opinion, the most important thing for America right now, bar none, is to get some campaign finance reform and lobbying restrictions through. This is literally the only thing that will restore some sanity to the political system over there - unfortunately none of the current crop of retards will be willing to do this without extreme public pressure, ie. enough to counteract the dire threats and multi-million dollar promises they would be getting from those on the other side of the debate.

happenstance

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2011, 01:29:20 PM »
The only problem is that campaign finance/lobbying reform won't fix the problem. It is like cutting one head off a 100 headed dragon. Texas doesn't allow corporate money in local elections and it hasn't change the stranglehold that big business has on state politicians. Lieberman (the precious 60th vote) couldn't allow for a public option during the Obamacare debate because 1. ideology and 2. and most importantly in my mind, almost the entire healthcare industry is based out of his state. If he allowed a public option he would be creating competition for his constituents. Similar phenomenon exist in almost all sectors of our economy. Politicians are literally hamstrung by big business because they provide most of the shitty jobs we have in our country and if you challenge them, you challenge most citizen's well-being (which there is some truth to and a lot of illusion as well).

Edit: If you include the DoD budget, our war costs (not included in the DoD budget) and all expenditures from other departments that are related to the military it, our military expenditures for the year are over 1 trillion dollars. This is running our economy into the ground, and because of the previously mentioned concept of 'political engineering' no politician is willing to deal with this. The vast majority of heavy industry in our country (like over 80%) is weapons development/military aviation. Again, those are a lot of jobs. So yeah, we are fucked and the sky is falling and not a single mother-fucker in our government is willing to deal with it.

This type of shit is starting to make more and more sense to me:


I mean, I am not going to start doing it myself, but at least these people are acting upon what they want to see change. Their efforts are futile, but so is voting, petitions and the like. At least it is more fun to break shit than it is to vote.

Edit 2: And I know I just posted a giant rant more or less. I am just pissed and saw this as the most appropriate place to post my rant. Point being, I don't know if I will ever vote for president again. At least not with the current political climate. I am not sure what it would take to change this.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 01:54:37 PM by happenstance »

weedpop

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2011, 03:13:56 PM »
True. I just feel that changing the rules regarding campaign finance would be a decent first step in releasing the stranglehold that big business has on domestic and foreign policy. It might at least help a bit on a federal level, although the intertwining of individual, state, and corporate economic interests is a much larger and more complex problem, probably too large and complex, as well as too entrenched in our economic system, to be fixed through simple legal reforms. A similarly huge problem is the militarization of American industry, which is bad not only for the people who are getting bombs dropped on them but also for anyone who doesn't wish to see world war 3 break out within the next 50 years as the US struggles to protect its foreign interests and economic primacy against the resurgence of China and Russia.

By the way, its important not to forget when taking into account total military spending that there is also a "black" or secret budget that isn't disclosed due to the nature of the projects it pays for, usually running about a couple billion dollars a year on top of the already outrageous expenditures.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 03:28:15 PM by weedpop »