What about God?

[_UniversalTruth_]

[Simon Woodstock]

How about waiting until you have the time to answer as opposed to just responding with "Thanks!" �It does come off as condescending and like you're actually not looking for any intelligent conversation.

As for my beliefs- I was raised in it, my father has been a preacher for most of my life and is one of the most accepting, loving, respectful people I know and he accepts, loves and respects me as his son who doesn't have a belief system. �I didn't stop believing, I just realized when I was old enough to know, that I never really did believe. �My beliefs were only more cemented when I moved to places where religion was not just the norm, but the law. �People kill each other over these ideas. �They kill/hate/disown people for thinking/being different. �And at the end of the day, religion has become, by and large, a business. �What Would Jesus Do about those extravagant mega churches? �The only time Jesus ever showed anger in the bible was when people set up shop in the church. �It's funny how people of all religions pick and choose which parts to follow. �

I believe in science and the strength of self and a support network of friends and family and it hasn't let me down yet.

hey man. I may have made the mistake of trying to respond to everyone individually. I was just trying to be friendly. I don't just google/cut-and-paste these responses so they take time. I will be back on in the AM and see what I can do with the comments/challenges on here. down the road if the posts keep piling up I may just have to take common questions that everyone seems to be asking and address them in big blocks .. all I ask is that you be patient as I have a lot of other commitments. see you tmrrw. thx.

[Fastfreddy]

also:

[brycickle]

I'm just hecka busy and can only spend short times on here periodically.

Five out of seven pages says otherwise.

[layzieyez]

http://www.comedycentral.com/video-clips/x02985/upright-citizens-brigade-hole-in-the-sheet

Do christians feel bad that they are simultaneously worshipping satan by believing in christ?  Satan is powerless if you don't buy into any of it.  If you believe in jesus, then you have to accept that satan is real, too.  Please tell me you are not making satan more powerful by raising the amount of people that accept him as fact by one.

[landCow]

also:

the thread started with promise, quickly turned into condescending bullshit, but then this video turned it around.

[layzieyez]

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[close]

[close]

What the fuck?

The dude with the fog machine is killing it though.

Holy fucking shit!

[brycickle]

It's some next level hippity hoppity. I don't curse, but I do refer to jesus as a nigga.

[chockfullofthat]

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How come believers of religion believe people talked to "God" in ancient times but they don't believe the modern man who says he can speak with god.  That's some agist bullshit.

[close]

I feel as if you're making a very big assumption here by including everyone of religion. As far as Christians talking with God...if a believer says God spoke to them (I use spoke loosely) then I'm going to hear them out. And if what they heard is biblical, then I'm going to take their word for it. I am a Christian, and I do believe that God can connect with people in many ways.

[close]

Well then, here's a list of Jesuses you can take at their word.  Try to discredit all of them without looking like an atheist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_claimed_to_be_Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants

[close]

I feel as if I can discredit them. Reason being they don't represent the biblical Christ. They all have fallen short of what Christ said His return would be like. The Bible tells you what it will be like when Jesus returns. None of those guys are doing those things. All those guys who wear white robes, live in the forrest(vice documentary), and make their own groups clearly aren't very biblical

I thought the Bible was like an enclyclopedia, meaning there's always room for new stories and revisions to old ones.  Isn't that why there are so many different editions of the Bible and flavors of Christianity?  The Bible is flexible like play-doh so you can make whatever shape you need to satisfy one's doubt in faith with a vague reference.  Anyway, I'm not really into Jesus or God, I'm more into the hiearchy of the Catholic church and the politics of succession and those sweet costumes they wear, it seem like the important bit to follow.

[Firebert]

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I'm just hecka busy and can only spend short times on here periodically.

[close]

Five out of seven pages says otherwise.

That's why he takes his time thanking everyone personally in separate posts without actually talking about anything they said. This way, there is no time to actually think.

[GAY]

It's funny/sad because I was raised in the church and loved it. Spent a lot of my free time there. Then my mom died of cancer. Several years after that I realized I was gay. Talk about bummed. All that time I thought I was special because the sin of lusting over women seemed to have just passed me by...little did I know. The church and religion got rid of ME, not the other way around. I went to the leaders of the church for help and they tossed me out. My family threw me out too. Everything I had been raised to believe in rejected me. And for anyone who brings that "gay is a choice" bullshit. If gay is a choice for me then it is for everyone else too, which means that when you go into a room you always find the men as attractive as the women...you just choose to get a boner for the women. I mean...why should I be so lucky to get this choice but you didn't? Trust me...I wouldn't EVER have chosen to be gay. In fact I tried and tried for the opposite to be true. Wasn't in the cards. And I prayed and cried over it until I was out of tears...no luck...God wasn't listening. To not accept myself was to spit in the face of God...to think I knew better than to accept what He created.

Simon, I appreciate your spirit and I think you're well intentioned, but religion sucks. It has destroyed far more lives than it has helped to build up. Talk to an "ex-gay" in the church and tell me he doesn't lisp. You can't. It teaches people like me to loathe themselves over something we didn't want in the first place...but something that is quite core to who we are. It was only when I learned to accept myself that I ever had anything close to a spiritual experience.

I am also in recovery from meth addiction...will turn 10 this year if I stay on the track I'm on. If God really hated me for being gay (which hasn't changed...still gay) he could easily have let me slip quietly into the grip of serious addiction. Instead I was given a moment of grace.

I pray now, but I don't know if it's to anything...I just feel like it helps me shift my perspective to something outside of myself. I ask for help in the morning and I say thanks at night. I don't try to convince others what they should or shouldn't believe. I live and let live. I can't stand spiritual people (yoga dorks and buddhist types come to mind) but don't deny that they have found something that works for them...so I do my best to not judge...I just take what works for me and leave the rest.

Like I said, I think you're intentions are good but this thread feels like proselytizing. Take care and congratulations on your sobriety. I know that is a hard-fought battle.

[Jack29]

The idea that God and science are intrinsically at loggerheads is really bizarre. hundreds of scientists like myself have a theist persuasion (aka belief in God(s)). For starters, Christians have driven scientific advances for thousands of years, including to this day. think about leading scientists today who are theists.... john polkinhorne, francis collins, john lennox, ard louis, william phillips...i'm just doing a boring list now but there are shizen loads so I find it embarrassing when suggest science and God are in two different camps. I did the alpha course and it made me reflect on what I actually believed in . and rather then just criticising peoples belief i realised that atheism is perhaps the mother of all faiths. challenging my lack of faith was the best thing i have done. hands down.

[brycickle]

Hey gay, fuck you for coming in here and saying something that is real, thoughtful, and actually makes logical sense.

Jog on!

[GAY]

Hey gay, fuck you for coming in here and saying something that is real, thoughtful, and actually makes logical sense.

Jog on!

LOL
I'm laughing through my tears.

[chockfullofthat]

How about waiting until you have the time to answer as opposed to just responding with "Thanks!" ? It does come off as condescending and like you're actually not looking for any intelligent conversation.

As for my beliefs- I was raised in it, my father has been a preacher for most of my life and is one of the most accepting, loving, respectful people I know and he accepts, loves and respects me as his son who doesn't have a belief system. ? I didn't stop believing, I just realized when I was old enough to know, that I never really did believe. ? My beliefs were only more cemented when I moved to places where religion was not just the norm, but the law. ? People kill each other over these ideas. ? They kill/hate/disown people for thinking/being different. ? And at the end of the day, religion has become, by and large, a business. ? What Would Jesus Do about those extravagant mega churches? ? The only time Jesus ever showed anger in the bible was when people set up shop in the church. ? It's funny how people of all religions pick and choose which parts to follow. ? 

I believe in science and the strength of self and a support network of friends and family and it hasn't let me down yet.

Now look what you've become!  666 under your internet moniker "Hate!"

[GAY]

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How about waiting until you have the time to answer as opposed to just responding with "Thanks!" ? It does come off as condescending and like you're actually not looking for any intelligent conversation.

As for my beliefs- I was raised in it, my father has been a preacher for most of my life and is one of the most accepting, loving, respectful people I know and he accepts, loves and respects me as his son who doesn't have a belief system. ? I didn't stop believing, I just realized when I was old enough to know, that I never really did believe. ? My beliefs were only more cemented when I moved to places where religion was not just the norm, but the law. ? People kill each other over these ideas. ? They kill/hate/disown people for thinking/being different. ? And at the end of the day, religion has become, by and large, a business. ? What Would Jesus Do about those extravagant mega churches? ? The only time Jesus ever showed anger in the bible was when people set up shop in the church. ? It's funny how people of all religions pick and choose which parts to follow. ? 

I believe in science and the strength of self and a support network of friends and family and it hasn't let me down yet.

[close]

Now look what you've become!  666 under your internet moniker "Hate!"

TURN OR BURN, BROTHER. TURN OR BURN.

[shitflea]

stick to kickin your shoes off mid tre-flip. You kept me interested.

[_aminal]

a good amount of posts here are pretty good, moving or make clear points and what have you

but this jesus is my nigga song is a real fuckin treat.

i cant say i believe in any organized religion but i have a sense of spirituality.

[Probably A Robot]

All I know is that I don't know, all I know is that I don't know nothing...

[Mundungus]

Simon kind of wears on me the same way Wintersox does on a read through, except Simon isn't at those levels of delusion..

[Seamus_McShamebag]

The idea that God and science are intrinsically at loggerheads is really bizarre. hundreds of scientists like myself have a theist persuasion (aka belief in God(s)). For starters, Christians have driven scientific advances for thousands of years, including to this day. think about leading scientists today who are theists.... john polkinhorne, francis collins, john lennox, ard louis, william phillips...i'm just doing a boring list now but there are shizen loads so I find it embarrassing when suggest science and God are in two different camps. I did the alpha course and it made me reflect on what I actually believed in . and rather then just criticising peoples belief i realised that atheism is perhaps the mother of all faiths. challenging my lack of faith was the best thing i have done. hands down.

Here's a decent article Time magazine ran with a christian and Heathen scientist debating the subject of god vs. Science: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1555132,00.html

In general, religious proponents just set themselves up for a majority of the science crowd to despise them by earning a reputation as being intolerant, apathetic and unwilling to engage in critical thought when it goes against their faith.  Being religious doesn't suddenly make you an idiot, it just makes being an idiot the most likely hypothesis based on scientific theory.

[grimcity]

Simon, just for my own curiosity, how old do you guesstimate the Earth and the universe to be, respectively?

[thepman]

How about waiting until you have the time to answer as opposed to just responding with "Thanks!" �It does come off as condescending and like you're actually not looking for any intelligent conversation.

As for my beliefs- I was raised in it, my father has been a preacher for most of my life and is one of the most accepting, loving, respectful people I know and he accepts, loves and respects me as his son who doesn't have a belief system. �I didn't stop believing, I just realized when I was old enough to know, that I never really did believe. �My beliefs were only more cemented when I moved to places where religion was not just the norm, but the law. �People kill each other over these ideas. �They kill/hate/disown people for thinking/being different. �And at the end of the day, religion has become, by and large, a business. �What Would Jesus Do about those extravagant mega churches? �The only time Jesus ever showed anger in the bible was when people set up shop in the church. �It's funny how people of all religions pick and choose which parts to follow. �

I believe in science and the strength of self and a support network of friends and family and it hasn't let me down yet.

Like you Hate I was raised as a christian. I didn't actually start questioning it properly until my early teens and since then i've just slowly distanced myself from it. There's too much to even list why I no longer believe, from its stance on women and homosexuality to the sheer ignorance and hypocrisy of it all, it just seems logical to not believe. It's strange because my Dad is incredibly intelligent, i've always wondered why he chose to be a christian, I should probably ask.
It does do a lot of good though, not sure what my parents would do without it, and a lot of the churches round here do a lot of good especially for the poor in the community. Religion has a hell of a lot of downsides but you can't discount a lot of the good work it does, half of all charities aimed at getting aid into Africa, Asia and South America are christian, and while they may just be trying to sell a message, it's doing a lot of good for third world countries.

I have a question i'm interested to here answers on, who was Jesus if he was not the son of God? I mean it's been proven that he almost certainly existed, so local politician? con man?  

[ericw]

It's funny/sad because I was raised in the church and loved it. Spent a lot of my free time there. Then my mom died of cancer. Several years after that I realized I was gay. Talk about bummed. All that time I thought I was special because the sin of lusting over women seemed to have just passed me by...little did I know. The church and religion got rid of ME, not the other way around. I went to the leaders of the church for help and they tossed me out. My family threw me out too. Everything I had been raised to believe in rejected me. And for anyone who brings that "gay is a choice" bullshit. If gay is a choice for me then it is for everyone else too, which means that when you go into a room you always find the men as attractive as the women...you just choose to get a boner for the women. I mean...why should I be so lucky to get this choice but you didn't? Trust me...I wouldn't EVER have chosen to be gay. In fact I tried and tried for the opposite to be true. Wasn't in the cards. And I prayed and cried over it until I was out of tears...no luck...God wasn't listening. To not accept myself was to spit in the face of God...to think I knew better than to accept what He created.

Simon, I appreciate your spirit and I think you're well intentioned, but religion sucks. It has destroyed far more lives than it has helped to build up. Talk to an "ex-gay" in the church and tell me he doesn't lisp. You can't. It teaches people like me to loathe themselves over something we didn't want in the first place...but something that is quite core to who we are. It was only when I learned to accept myself that I ever had anything close to a spiritual experience.

I am also in recovery from meth addiction...will turn 10 this year if I stay on the track I'm on. If God really hated me for being gay (which hasn't changed...still gay) he could easily have let me slip quietly into the grip of serious addiction. Instead I was given a moment of grace.

I pray now, but I don't know if it's to anything...I just feel like it helps me shift my perspective to something outside of myself. I ask for help in the morning and I say thanks at night. I don't try to convince others what they should or shouldn't believe. I live and let live. I can't stand spiritual people (yoga dorks and buddhist types come to mind) but don't deny that they have found something that works for them...so I do my best to not judge...I just take what works for me and leave the rest.

Like I said, I think you're intentions are good but this thread feels like proselytizing. Take care and congratulations on your sobriety. I know that is a hard-fought battle.

So it seems as if man failed you. God says in the bible that man will always fail us, but He never will (One example is Psalm 27:10). To me, it seems like your church didn't have Christ's love at the center....which is a real shame, and I'm honestly sorry that all had to happen. I feel as if my church handles homosexuality very well. They tolerate the choice even though they don't support it. They believe that everyone deserves Christ's love which is very important as well as Biblical.

[Beer Keg Peg Leg]

god made GAY in his image

[Simon Woodstock]

Simon, just for my own curiosity, how old do you guesstimate the Earth and the universe to be, respectively?

I lean towards the view of Young Earth Creationism. But, not in the strict 6000-10,000 years sense. Because of certain aspects of the genealogies in the Bible I believe the earth is about 100,000 years old. That being said, I have no problem with people believing that the earth is millions of years old and the universe billions of years old. I can see, scientifically, how they would interpret the data that way. Lot's of Christians I know and respect hold to an old earth/universe view.

[Beer Keg Peg Leg]

how you explain fuckin dinomorphs then godboy?

[sleepypancakes]

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It's funny/sad because I was raised in the church and loved it. Spent a lot of my free time there. Then my mom died of cancer. Several years after that I realized I was gay. Talk about bummed. All that time I thought I was special because the sin of lusting over women seemed to have just passed me by...little did I know. The church and religion got rid of ME, not the other way around. I went to the leaders of the church for help and they tossed me out. My family threw me out too. Everything I had been raised to believe in rejected me. And for anyone who brings that "gay is a choice" bullshit. If gay is a choice for me then it is for everyone else too, which means that when you go into a room you always find the men as attractive as the women...you just choose to get a boner for the women. I mean...why should I be so lucky to get this choice but you didn't? Trust me...I wouldn't EVER have chosen to be gay. In fact I tried and tried for the opposite to be true. Wasn't in the cards. And I prayed and cried over it until I was out of tears...no luck...God wasn't listening. To not accept myself was to spit in the face of God...to think I knew better than to accept what He created.

Simon, I appreciate your spirit and I think you're well intentioned, but religion sucks. It has destroyed far more lives than it has helped to build up. Talk to an "ex-gay" in the church and tell me he doesn't lisp. You can't. It teaches people like me to loathe themselves over something we didn't want in the first place...but something that is quite core to who we are. It was only when I learned to accept myself that I ever had anything close to a spiritual experience.

I am also in recovery from meth addiction...will turn 10 this year if I stay on the track I'm on. If God really hated me for being gay (which hasn't changed...still gay) he could easily have let me slip quietly into the grip of serious addiction. Instead I was given a moment of grace.

I pray now, but I don't know if it's to anything...I just feel like it helps me shift my perspective to something outside of myself. I ask for help in the morning and I say thanks at night. I don't try to convince others what they should or shouldn't believe. I live and let live. I can't stand spiritual people (yoga dorks and buddhist types come to mind) but don't deny that they have found something that works for them...so I do my best to not judge...I just take what works for me and leave the rest.

Like I said, I think you're intentions are good but this thread feels like proselytizing. Take care and congratulations on your sobriety. I know that is a hard-fought battle.

[close]

So it seems as if man failed you. God says in the bible that man will always fail us, but He never will (One example is Psalm 27:10). To me, it seems like your church didn't have Christ's love at the center....which is a real shame, and I'm honestly sorry that all had to happen. I feel as if my church handles homosexuality very well. They tolerate the choice even though they don't support it. They believe that everyone deserves Christ's love which is very important as well as Biblical.

I'm gonna go ahead and call you on this one, "tolerate" is a very easy way to say that they will never support it. I've been getting "tolerated" my entire life, I'm still "tolerated" by people who claim to love the sinner and hate the sin. I'm "tolerated" by the religious that turn their heads when I'm in public with my significant other, doing nothing but holding hands. I've been "tolerated" enough. Don't be fake to my face, I know what a majority (not all, I won't generalize, there are some very supportive religious people) of people with religion think. You might assume that I don't care what other people think and I shouldn't, and I don't as much now, but being bullied in jr. high getting called a faggot everyday is gonna leave some marks and some hostility. So I'm tired of being "tolerated" tolerating someone is being in the same room or sitting next to someone on a plane and hating it but not doing much to counteract it. If you believe that everyone is deserving of equal love and equal treatment then I want my complete civil rights now.

/rant

[Simon Woodstock]

It's funny/sad because I was raised in the church and loved it. Spent a lot of my free time there. Then my mom died of cancer. Several years after that I realized I was gay. Talk about bummed. All that time I thought I was special because the sin of lusting over women seemed to have just passed me by...little did I know. The church and religion got rid of ME, not the other way around. I went to the leaders of the church for help and they tossed me out. My family threw me out too. Everything I had been raised to believe in rejected me. And for anyone who brings that "gay is a choice" bullshit. If gay is a choice for me then it is for everyone else too, which means that when you go into a room you always find the men as attractive as the women...you just choose to get a boner for the women. I mean...why should I be so lucky to get this choice but you didn't? Trust me...I wouldn't EVER have chosen to be gay. In fact I tried and tried for the opposite to be true. Wasn't in the cards. And I prayed and cried over it until I was out of tears...no luck...God wasn't listening. To not accept myself was to spit in the face of God...to think I knew better than to accept what He created.

Simon, I appreciate your spirit and I think you're well intentioned, but religion sucks. It has destroyed far more lives than it has helped to build up. Talk to an "ex-gay" in the church and tell me he doesn't lisp. You can't. It teaches people like me to loathe themselves over something we didn't want in the first place...but something that is quite core to who we are. It was only when I learned to accept myself that I ever had anything close to a spiritual experience.

I am also in recovery from meth addiction...will turn 10 this year if I stay on the track I'm on. If God really hated me for being gay (which hasn't changed...still gay) he could easily have let me slip quietly into the grip of serious addiction. Instead I was given a moment of grace.

I pray now, but I don't know if it's to anything...I just feel like it helps me shift my perspective to something outside of myself. I ask for help in the morning and I say thanks at night. I don't try to convince others what they should or shouldn't believe. I live and let live. I can't stand spiritual people (yoga dorks and buddhist types come to mind) but don't deny that they have found something that works for them...so I do my best to not judge...I just take what works for me and leave the rest.

Like I said, I think you're intentions are good but this thread feels like proselytizing. Take care and congratulations on your sobriety. I know that is a hard-fought battle.

Hey buddy. Sorry to hear about the rough spots in your journey in life. I'm not an expert on this topic, but the former homosexuals that I have talked to have said that their sexual behavior wound up being the root of their emotional and spiritual problems. I have found personally that trying to obey the Bible the best that I can has helped me greatly in life. I know the Bible speaks a lot on sexuality, if your ever in the mood you might want to check out Romans 1:23-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9. These passages have been a great help to a lot of people. peace.

[Simon Woodstock]

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I like the idea of God, orthodox religions on the other, I hate. Faith is is a blank check for irrationality. I find the Gnostic Gospels to be fascinating.



The chick who wrote this is rad. Talks about the power struggles between rival ambitious leaders in the early church, and how it came to form many parts of the modern church that go unquestioned/as word of God.

[close]

Hey Chronic. Thanks for sharing your 2 cents worth here. While I know that a lot of atrocities have been done in the name of religion, I don't think that is true religion as God and Jesus intended. The Bible says that true religion is to help widows and orphans (James 1:27). This, I see true religion as a good thing and we have religion to thank for a lot of the hospitas and schools that we have in the world. I'll take a look into the Gnostic thing later today. Please let me know if you even need prayer or anything, man. Peace!

www.d2lrevolution.com

[close]

Yeah, I realize that religion is responsible for a lot of good. But I think it would be possible do good without frightening people into submission (hell) or encouraging misinformation (faith). With the Gnostics, gnosis meant knowledge, and they encouraged their followers to seek knowledge, not limited to priests or the Bible--which books were chosen from many other potential books by priests back in the second century to establish the Papacy, and link their authority to the Apostles, as to claim that it was heretical to question their teachings. The Gnostics said "fuck you, you don't speak for Jesus.' and thats what I say to their contemporary brethren. I wish people wouldn't be so afraid to question/examine their religious beliefs because of the 'F' word. As I mentioned, its the end all say all of logical discussion. I also like some of the stuff the Quakers talk about, where they reject priests and the Bible's authority in favor of pursuing the inner light of Christ. I'm very down for the teachings of Jesus, but it's secondary to many Christians it seems like. Things like Pacifism/kindness towards the meek gets overlooked in favor of hating gay people, which I'm pretty sure he never mentions.

On another note, curious, do you think only Christians go to heaven? Like, is Ghandi in hell, but serial killers who accept Christ as their Savior in heaven?

Let me know if you ever need a prayer.

man, I can always use prayer. please pray that my leg would heal so I can go skate.

regarding hell. What ultimately happens between Gandhi and God is between them. But, I have found when people bring these examples up it is under the topic of works related righteousness. My understanding of the Bible is that no person on earth (Christian or non-Christian) will be justified by their works. The Bible is clear about this (Romans 3:19-26). My opinion is the only way to be justified is by the blood of Jesus Christ (John 14:6). It's not a scare tactic or narrow in that Christ died for the sins of the whole world and salvation is a free gift to all who call upon His name. Christ's death on the Cross was the ultimate act of love in all of history. As far as murderers coming to faith in Christ, thankfully anyone without a seared conscious can come to Christ. Whether this act of faith is possible by the most heinous criminals is up for debate.

It seems to have happened in the case of Charles "Tex" Watson