Author Topic: Spitfire formula four  (Read 217361 times)

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Diocletian

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1710 on: May 14, 2018, 03:23:10 AM »
Anyone know if the regular classic spitfires are now made in USA? I bought some recently and think I got some old stock because they say theyíre made in Mexico. I could have swore all spitís were made in USA. Also, did they update their formula for the regular classics and improve them?

fulfillthedream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1711 on: May 23, 2018, 01:09:32 AM »
^ as far as i know all spits are made in the US

just got these - in love with swirled wheels

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CINCINNATI

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1712 on: May 23, 2018, 06:02:14 AM »
looking to grab a set of 56 or 58mm classic shape 99's. are they still fairly wide? ive been riding nothing but 56mm conical fulls (99 and 101) the last 3 years and am nervous that i am so used to fat wheels and the classics wont work out.

Jollyoli

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1713 on: May 23, 2018, 06:24:38 AM »
Size chart here -
http://www.spitfirewheels.com/formulafour/

only found a small difference going from conical / full back to classics, slid ledges a little easier and were lighter but broke traction a little earlier if throwing it into a tight pocket at speed.
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maggotspawn

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1714 on: May 24, 2018, 05:02:32 PM »
Anybody else think the 99a F4's are a little too grippy? Haven't tried them at the park, but on asphalt and the concrete road in front of my house they barely slide at all. Might try out some 101a's.

tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1715 on: May 24, 2018, 05:06:29 PM »
Anybody else think the 99a F4's are a little too grippy? Haven't tried them at the park, but on asphalt and the concrete road in front of my house they barely slide at all. Might try out some 101a's.

What shape? I find them slightly on the grippy side if I'm doing blunts on ledges, but besides that, I think they're perfect (you can always wax the ledge, but you can't unwax the ground). 101s and similar wheels are too slippery when I'm bombing hills and want to slide to slow down, always feel like I'm at risk of slipping out. 99 is also more forgiving on rough ground too. I guess the only time I really want to slide on the ground is when I'm going fast down a hill, but if you want easier reverts out of 180/360 tricks on flat then 101s might make more sense.

maggotspawn

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1716 on: May 24, 2018, 05:26:43 PM »
Anybody else think the 99a F4's are a little too grippy? Haven't tried them at the park, but on asphalt and the concrete road in front of my house they barely slide at all. Might try out some 101a's.

What shape? I find them slightly on the grippy side if I'm doing blunts on ledges, but besides that, I think they're perfect (you can always wax the ledge, but you can't unwax the ground). 101s and similar wheels are too slippery when I'm bombing hills and want to slide to slow down, always feel like I'm at risk of slipping out. 99 is also more forgiving on rough ground too. I guess the only time I really want to slide on the ground is when I'm going fast down a hill, but if you want easier reverts out of 180/360 tricks on flat then 101s might make more sense.
Yeah, basically I want to slide for checking speed when going downhill. I'm running 56mm Conical Full's.
Otherwise they feel great for everything else.

tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1717 on: May 24, 2018, 06:31:50 PM »
Anybody else think the 99a F4's are a little too grippy? Haven't tried them at the park, but on asphalt and the concrete road in front of my house they barely slide at all. Might try out some 101a's.

What shape? I find them slightly on the grippy side if I'm doing blunts on ledges, but besides that, I think they're perfect (you can always wax the ledge, but you can't unwax the ground). 101s and similar wheels are too slippery when I'm bombing hills and want to slide to slow down, always feel like I'm at risk of slipping out. 99 is also more forgiving on rough ground too. I guess the only time I really want to slide on the ground is when I'm going fast down a hill, but if you want easier reverts out of 180/360 tricks on flat then 101s might make more sense.
Yeah, basically I want to slide for checking speed when going downhill. I'm running 56mm Conical Full's.
Otherwise they feel great for everything else.

56 conical fulls would be very grippy. If you like that size/shape, 101s would be good. If you want to stick with 99s, a thinner shape would probably be easier to slide I'm guessing

ballintoohard

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1718 on: May 24, 2018, 07:16:21 PM »
I was on 54 Classic 99a for a while and tried Conicals. I mainly skate street, I suck, and sometimes carve around parks. I'm finding them feeling not a ton different except when locking in or grinding. Would Radial Slims be a noticeable difference or compromise? I might just go back to Classics. I think I liked the 101 better.

Roisto

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1719 on: May 24, 2018, 08:48:58 PM »
Anybody else think the 99a F4's are a little too grippy? Haven't tried them at the park, but on asphalt and the concrete road in front of my house they barely slide at all. Might try out some 101a's.

What shape? I find them slightly on the grippy side if I'm doing blunts on ledges, but besides that, I think they're perfect (you can always wax the ledge, but you can't unwax the ground). 101s and similar wheels are too slippery when I'm bombing hills and want to slide to slow down, always feel like I'm at risk of slipping out. 99 is also more forgiving on rough ground too. I guess the only time I really want to slide on the ground is when I'm going fast down a hill, but if you want easier reverts out of 180/360 tricks on flat then 101s might make more sense.
Yeah, basically I want to slide for checking speed when going downhill. I'm running 56mm Conical Full's.
Otherwise they feel great for everything else.

56 conical fulls would be very grippy. If you like that size/shape, 101s would be good. If you want to stick with 99s, a thinner shape would probably be easier to slide I'm guessing

Wheel width has nothing to do with grip. Conical fulls aren't any more grippy than classics.

GardenSkater77

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1720 on: May 24, 2018, 09:09:09 PM »
Not so sure wheel width has nothing to do with grip. I would feel more confident taking a tight turn with wider wheels. I am running 52 mm 99a Radials and I find they slide more easily than I need them to. I am sure that the classics would provide even less traction at speed. Donít SF hill bombers ride conical full? There has got to be a reason for this, yes?

Xen

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1721 on: May 24, 2018, 09:11:38 PM »
Wider wheels will make it a bit easier on shoddy terrain

Roisto

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1722 on: May 24, 2018, 10:26:55 PM »
Not so sure wheel width has nothing to do with grip. I would feel more confident taking a tight turn with wider wheels. I am running 52 mm 99a Radials and I find they slide more easily than I need them to. I am sure that the classics would provide even less traction at speed. Donít SF hill bombers ride conical full? There has got to be a reason for this, yes?



Conical fulls will wear down slower as thereís more material to wear down. Also wider wheels are better for rough terrain cuz the wideness evens the small dents in the road out better.

Paco Supreme

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1723 on: May 24, 2018, 10:39:05 PM »
Donít SF hill bombers ride conical full? There has got to be a reason for this, yes?
Not all of them, Frank's infamous switch hill bomb was done on what looked like classic shapes.
 

Wider wheels will make it a bit easier on shoddy terrain

tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1724 on: May 25, 2018, 12:14:34 AM »
Yes, the classical formula for friction does not involve surface area: F = mu, where u is the coefficient of friction. However this simple model developed by Coloumb, while accurate for classroom experiments like in that youtube video, does not factor in all the variables involved in traction in the real world. So saying wheel width has no effect on grip, or more specifically traction, may often be inaccurate.

You're not considering load sensitivity, sidewall flexing, slip angles at speed amongst other factors. It's similar to why wider tires are preferred for increased traction (especially on acceleration) for bikes and cars and stuff. Rubber and urethane, despite being different compounds, are both elastic and display many of the similar properties.

TLDR: Although friction is unrelated to surface area in controlled environments with smooth surfaces, wider wheels with larger contact patches still generally have increased traction if you control for all other variables.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 12:16:48 AM by tzhangdox »

cosmicgypsies

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1725 on: May 25, 2018, 02:16:34 AM »
Anybody else think the 99a F4's are a little too grippy? Haven't tried them at the park, but on asphalt and the concrete road in front of my house they barely slide at all. Might try out some 101a's.

What shape? I find them slightly on the grippy side if I'm doing blunts on ledges, but besides that, I think they're perfect (you can always wax the ledge, but you can't unwax the ground). 101s and similar wheels are too slippery when I'm bombing hills and want to slide to slow down, always feel like I'm at risk of slipping out. 99 is also more forgiving on rough ground too. I guess the only time I really want to slide on the ground is when I'm going fast down a hill, but if you want easier reverts out of 180/360 tricks on flat then 101s might make more sense.

but thats the best feeling

Jollyoli

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1726 on: May 25, 2018, 02:24:16 AM »

TLDR: Although friction is unrelated to surface area in controlled environments with smooth surfaces, wider wheels with larger contact patches still generally have increased traction if you control for all other variables.

Thank a non-specific deity, I was beginning to think I was on crazy pills.
Friction is not the same thing as breaking traction.
Hey, hey, hey, hey-now. Don't be mean; we don't have to be mean, cuz, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1727 on: May 25, 2018, 02:41:16 AM »
Anybody else think the 99a F4's are a little too grippy? Haven't tried them at the park, but on asphalt and the concrete road in front of my house they barely slide at all. Might try out some 101a's.

What shape? I find them slightly on the grippy side if I'm doing blunts on ledges, but besides that, I think they're perfect (you can always wax the ledge, but you can't unwax the ground). 101s and similar wheels are too slippery when I'm bombing hills and want to slide to slow down, always feel like I'm at risk of slipping out. 99 is also more forgiving on rough ground too. I guess the only time I really want to slide on the ground is when I'm going fast down a hill, but if you want easier reverts out of 180/360 tricks on flat then 101s might make more sense.

but thats the best feeling

haha, perhaps i should be more precise. 99s give you that feeling as well, but 101s for me, result in more actual slipping out. if you want that feeling, find a gnarlier hill.

cosmicgypsies

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1728 on: May 25, 2018, 02:49:11 AM »
i feel you i have 101a f4s was chucking powerslides down a hill last weekend and kept sliding into switch, that was a fucking scary one

BMCsteve

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1729 on: May 25, 2018, 04:22:48 AM »
I've spent the last 5 years watching my board and trucks get wider and wider while my wheels stay relatively the same.  Today I finally moved up from conical F4 to conical full F4

Roisto

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1730 on: May 25, 2018, 01:13:13 PM »
Yes, the classical formula for friction does not involve surface area: F = mu, where u is the coefficient of friction. However this simple model developed by Coloumb, while accurate for classroom experiments like in that youtube video, does not factor in all the variables involved in traction in the real world. So saying wheel width has no effect on grip, or more specifically traction, may often be inaccurate.

You're not considering load sensitivity, sidewall flexing, slip angles at speed amongst other factors. It's similar to why wider tires are preferred for increased traction (especially on acceleration) for bikes and cars and stuff. Rubber and urethane, despite being different compounds, are both elastic and display many of the similar properties.

TLDR: Although friction is unrelated to surface area in controlled environments with smooth surfaces, wider wheels with larger contact patches still generally have increased traction if you control for all other variables.

What does load sensitivity or sidewall flexing have to do with skateboard wheels? Skateboard wheels are incredibly hard compared to car tires and the load on a skateboard is like 1/20th of the load on a car or less. And what do slip angles have to do with wheel width?



TLDR: Although friction is unrelated to surface area in controlled environments with smooth surfaces, wider wheels with larger contact patches still generally have increased traction if you control for all other variables.

Thank a non-specific deity, I was beginning to think I was on crazy pills.
Friction is not the same thing as breaking traction.

When you "break traction" you move from static friction to kinetic friction. They are indeed different but it's all friction nonetheless.



I've had Formula Fours in Classic, Classic Full, Radial Slim & Conical Full shapes and I could not for the life of me tell any difference between them in how they slide. Sure there are other differences but I will not believe that a narrower skateboard wheel will slide better until someone actually proves it. So far I haven't seen or experienced anything that supports that this would be the case.  :)

Firebert

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1731 on: May 25, 2018, 01:33:44 PM »
I will not believe that a narrower skateboard wheel will slide better until someone actually proves it. So far I haven't seen or experienced anything that supports that this would be the case.  :)
Remind me to never listen to this person again.
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tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1732 on: May 25, 2018, 02:42:47 PM »
Yes, the classical formula for friction does not involve surface area: F = mu, where u is the coefficient of friction. However this simple model developed by Coloumb, while accurate for classroom experiments like in that youtube video, does not factor in all the variables involved in traction in the real world. So saying wheel width has no effect on grip, or more specifically traction, may often be inaccurate.

You're not considering load sensitivity, sidewall flexing, slip angles at speed amongst other factors. It's similar to why wider tires are preferred for increased traction (especially on acceleration) for bikes and cars and stuff. Rubber and urethane, despite being different compounds, are both elastic and display many of the similar properties.

TLDR: Although friction is unrelated to surface area in controlled environments with smooth surfaces, wider wheels with larger contact patches still generally have increased traction if you control for all other variables.

What does load sensitivity or sidewall flexing have to do with skateboard wheels? Skateboard wheels are incredibly hard compared to car tires and the load on a skateboard is like 1/20th of the load on a car or less. And what do slip angles have to do with wheel width?



TLDR: Although friction is unrelated to surface area in controlled environments with smooth surfaces, wider wheels with larger contact patches still generally have increased traction if you control for all other variables.

Thank a non-specific deity, I was beginning to think I was on crazy pills.
Friction is not the same thing as breaking traction.

When you "break traction" you move from static friction to kinetic friction. They are indeed different but it's all friction nonetheless.

I've had Formula Fours in Classic, Classic Full, Radial Slim & Conical Full shapes and I could not for the life of me tell any difference between them in how they slide. Sure there are other differences but I will not believe that a narrower skateboard wheel will slide better until someone actually proves it. So far I haven't seen or experienced anything that supports that this would be the case.  :)

Like I said, although urethane and rubber are vastly different materials, they are both elastic and share many of the same properties. As a result, even though there is far less load and urethane is much harder, these things still apply (albeit to a significantly lesser extent).

Notice how I said may, and generally in my original post because I don't know the specifics nor do I claim to have all the answers. All I'm saying is that there are many factors in the real world that the simple area friction formula fails to consider. Take some classic slims and some conical fulls and try blunt/lip a ledge and see the difference for yourself. I'm sure most people would notice a difference even on a blind test. Even if you can't tell the difference, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I have friends who can't tell the difference between skating an 8 and an 8.25, doesn't mean the difference isn't there.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 02:45:14 PM by tzhangdox »

ballintoohard

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1733 on: May 26, 2018, 06:06:06 PM »
Anyone have opinions on Classic, Conical, and Radial Slim vs one another?

tangar

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1734 on: May 26, 2018, 07:08:22 PM »
Need to start readintoohard, people are literally debating that on THIS page fool.
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ballintoohard

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1735 on: May 26, 2018, 09:20:55 PM »
Nah they're debating "sliding" with some maths and some theory, but not really gathering much info since I tend to do more than just that.

tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1736 on: May 26, 2018, 09:36:39 PM »
iv skated conical fulls, classics and radial slims. so not quite conicals i guess, but i found the contact patch on classics to be a tad too slim, and the conical fulls were a bit too wide for my liking. radial slims were a pretty good halfway point for me. so i'd get that and go from there depending on how you like it, and if you want something slightly wider than that, conicals are good.

edit: i find it way easier to slappy on classics, like a lot easier than on conicals or wheels with a straight edge, however the corollary to that is that classics don't lock in to ledges and round rails as well, easier to slip out of 5050s on round rails. then again im shit at slappies
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 09:51:56 PM by tzhangdox »

calvinsdream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1737 on: May 27, 2018, 06:33:02 AM »
^ as far as i know all spits are made in the US

just got these - in love with swirled wheels



That's odd. They're printed with 34mm.

nosneb

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1738 on: May 27, 2018, 06:40:49 AM »
Thatís a 5 for sure. It really looks like a 3

Xen

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1739 on: May 27, 2018, 11:13:46 AM »
Thatís a 5 for sure. It really looks like a 3