Author Topic: Spitfire formula four  (Read 689504 times)

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tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1710 on: May 25, 2018, 02:42:47 PM »
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Yes, the classical formula for friction does not involve surface area: F = mu, where u is the coefficient of friction. However this simple model developed by Coloumb, while accurate for classroom experiments like in that youtube video, does not factor in all the variables involved in traction in the real world. So saying wheel width has no effect on grip, or more specifically traction, may often be inaccurate.

You're not considering load sensitivity, sidewall flexing, slip angles at speed amongst other factors. It's similar to why wider tires are preferred for increased traction (especially on acceleration) for bikes and cars and stuff. Rubber and urethane, despite being different compounds, are both elastic and display many of the similar properties.

TLDR: Although friction is unrelated to surface area in controlled environments with smooth surfaces, wider wheels with larger contact patches still generally have increased traction if you control for all other variables.
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What does load sensitivity or sidewall flexing have to do with skateboard wheels? Skateboard wheels are incredibly hard compared to car tires and the load on a skateboard is like 1/20th of the load on a car or less. And what do slip angles have to do with wheel width?


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TLDR: Although friction is unrelated to surface area in controlled environments with smooth surfaces, wider wheels with larger contact patches still generally have increased traction if you control for all other variables.
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Thank a non-specific deity, I was beginning to think I was on crazy pills.
Friction is not the same thing as breaking traction.
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When you "break traction" you move from static friction to kinetic friction. They are indeed different but it's all friction nonetheless.

I've had Formula Fours in Classic, Classic Full, Radial Slim & Conical Full shapes and I could not for the life of me tell any difference between them in how they slide. Sure there are other differences but I will not believe that a narrower skateboard wheel will slide better until someone actually proves it. So far I haven't seen or experienced anything that supports that this would be the case.  :)

Like I said, although urethane and rubber are vastly different materials, they are both elastic and share many of the same properties. As a result, even though there is far less load and urethane is much harder, these things still apply (albeit to a significantly lesser extent).

Notice how I said may, and generally in my original post because I don't know the specifics nor do I claim to have all the answers. All I'm saying is that there are many factors in the real world that the simple area friction formula fails to consider. Take some classic slims and some conical fulls and try blunt/lip a ledge and see the difference for yourself. I'm sure most people would notice a difference even on a blind test. Even if you can't tell the difference, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I have friends who can't tell the difference between skating an 8 and an 8.25, doesn't mean the difference isn't there.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2018, 02:45:14 PM by tzhangdox »

ballintoohard

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1711 on: May 26, 2018, 06:06:06 PM »
Anyone have opinions on Classic, Conical, and Radial Slim vs one another?

tangar

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1712 on: May 26, 2018, 07:08:22 PM »
Need to start readintoohard, people are literally debating that on THIS page fool.
Man the long board truck thing killed indy for me. I was willing to set aside the racism, but long boarding, gtfo... - DH

ballintoohard

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1713 on: May 26, 2018, 09:20:55 PM »
Nah they're debating "sliding" with some maths and some theory, but not really gathering much info since I tend to do more than just that.

tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1714 on: May 26, 2018, 09:36:39 PM »
iv skated conical fulls, classics and radial slims. so not quite conicals i guess, but i found the contact patch on classics to be a tad too slim, and the conical fulls were a bit too wide for my liking. radial slims were a pretty good halfway point for me. so i'd get that and go from there depending on how you like it, and if you want something slightly wider than that, conicals are good.

edit: i find it way easier to slappy on classics, like a lot easier than on conicals or wheels with a straight edge, however the corollary to that is that classics don't lock in to ledges and round rails as well, easier to slip out of 5050s on round rails. then again im shit at slappies
« Last Edit: May 26, 2018, 09:51:56 PM by tzhangdox »

calvinsdream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1715 on: May 27, 2018, 06:33:02 AM »
^ as far as i know all spits are made in the US

just got these - in love with swirled wheels

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi6tS9clShq/?taken-by=imran927

That's odd. They're printed with 34mm.

nosneb

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1716 on: May 27, 2018, 06:40:49 AM »
That’s a 5 for sure. It really looks like a 3

Xen

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1717 on: May 27, 2018, 11:13:46 AM »
That’s a 5 for sure. It really looks like a 3

SneakySecrets

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1718 on: June 17, 2018, 07:50:23 PM »
Just got a set of the 99 duro, 52mm classics.  Am I crazy or did they recently change up the formula for formula fours? 

I have had a set of both the conical and radial slims (both 99 duro).  Those wheels had that yellowy, off-white color that I’ve always associated with formula fours. The ones I just got are noticeably whiter, almost the color of bones stf’s. 

Also, the other f4s I’ve had felt more clay-like and porous.  The ones I just got dont have that as much.

Anyone else have that experience, or am I losing my mind?

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Paco Supreme

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1719 on: June 17, 2018, 09:21:41 PM »
The latest versions ive seen, the spitfire x shop wheels still have that yellow tinge to them

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkEcb99FnNL/?taken-by=grantfiero

fulfillthedream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1720 on: June 18, 2018, 12:16:58 AM »
damn they should just do the basic f4's with the classic swirl!

on another note been strictly riding f4's since 2013; classics, classic slim, classic wide, conical full, radial slim and radial - all 99 duro - cant beat the classics. and all other wheel production should just stop hahaha
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Shuh

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1721 on: June 18, 2018, 10:33:59 AM »
damn they should just do the basic f4's with the classic swirl!

on another note been strictly riding f4's since 2013; classics, classic slim, classic wide, conical full, radial slim and radial - all 99 duro - cant beat the classics. and all other wheel production should just stop hahaha

All right like dicaprio would say "sell me this f4 classic" why should I get classic instead of the other shapes?

calvinsdream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1722 on: June 18, 2018, 10:40:19 AM »
they should just do the basic f4's with the classic swirl!


nosneb

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1723 on: June 18, 2018, 10:33:06 PM »
Those are deff f4s if you zoom in on the pic. But yeah they should do a bunch of classics colors in f4s

iwishilivedinfinla

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1724 on: June 18, 2018, 10:36:07 PM »
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they should just do the basic f4's with the classic swirl!

[close]

they're coming

fulfillthedream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1725 on: June 19, 2018, 12:58:31 AM »
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damn they should just do the basic f4's with the classic swirl!

on another note been strictly riding f4's since 2013; classics, classic slim, classic wide, conical full, radial slim and radial - all 99 duro - cant beat the classics. and all other wheel production should just stop hahaha
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All right like dicaprio would say "sell me this f4 classic" why should I get classic instead of the other shapes?

my thing is the classic shape is literally best all around as far as the surface space goes, the shape locks in really well onto ledges and coping and the bearing sits just right to make em spin fast compared to the radial slims/conicals
Skateboarding is like jacking-off, it's that good- Jeremy Klein

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tzhangdox

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1726 on: June 19, 2018, 08:59:39 AM »
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damn they should just do the basic f4's with the classic swirl!

on another note been strictly riding f4's since 2013; classics, classic slim, classic wide, conical full, radial slim and radial - all 99 duro - cant beat the classics. and all other wheel production should just stop hahaha
[close]

All right like dicaprio would say "sell me this f4 classic" why should I get classic instead of the other shapes?
[close]

my thing is the classic shape is literally best all around as far as the surface space goes, the shape locks in really well onto ledges and coping and the bearing sits just right to make em spin fast compared to the radial slims/conicals

Really? I feel like the classic locks into ledges the worst as the edge isn't as straight cut. Feel safer doing 5050s pon round rails and long 5-0s on ledges with lock ins or conicals. Also for how wide the classic is at the widest point, the contact patch is quite thin if you're skating rough ground.

Firebert

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1727 on: June 19, 2018, 09:14:44 AM »
There is no best shape, there is only "better for."

calvinsdream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1728 on: June 19, 2018, 09:24:50 AM »
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they should just do the basic f4's with the classic swirl!

[close]
[close]

they're coming

holy fuck

Xen

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1729 on: June 19, 2018, 10:22:33 AM »
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damn they should just do the basic f4's with the classic swirl!

on another note been strictly riding f4's since 2013; classics, classic slim, classic wide, conical full, radial slim and radial - all 99 duro - cant beat the classics. and all other wheel production should just stop hahaha
[close]

All right like dicaprio would say "sell me this f4 classic" why should I get classic instead of the other shapes?
[close]

my thing is the classic shape is literally best all around as far as the surface space goes, the shape locks in really well onto ledges and coping and the bearing sits just right to make em spin fast compared to the radial slims/conicals
[close]

Really? I feel like the classic locks into ledges the worst as the edge isn't as straight cut. Feel safer doing 5050s pon round rails and long 5-0s on ledges with lock ins or conicals. Also for how wide the classic is at the widest point, the contact patch is quite thin if you're skating rough ground.



That's my biggest issue with classics, so much wheel for so little riding surface, great slappy wheel tho, rolls over anything.

It's not like the OG graphic isn't present:

« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 10:25:06 AM by Xen »

Diocletian

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1730 on: June 30, 2018, 07:26:16 PM »
I’ve been skating the new updated formula of the classic non-F4 Spitfire’s and they may not have as much of a controllable and longer slide, but I think they’re a major improvement over how they used to be. They’ve worked perfectly fine at the park or bombing hills and I can powerslide without fear of sticking and dying. They require a tiny bit more effort to slide as opposed to the 101a F4’s which require basically no effort at all. If your local only has these classic classics in stock, give them a shot. They’re not bad at all.

Xen

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1731 on: June 30, 2018, 07:51:35 PM »
Is it only collab shop thane or perhaps the new drops of the 'pro classics'?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 09:37:42 PM by Xen »

nosneb

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1732 on: June 30, 2018, 08:03:46 PM »
Im on my 3rd pair of shop collab F4s from different seasons and they are all the same.

Xen

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1733 on: June 30, 2018, 09:40:21 PM »
I’ve been skating the new updated formula of the classic non-F4 Spitfire’s and they may not have as much of a controllable and longer slide, but I think they’re a major improvement over how they used to be. They’ve worked perfectly fine at the park or bombing hills and I can powerslide without fear of sticking and dying. They require a tiny bit more effort to slide as opposed to the 101a F4’s which require basically no effort at all. If your local only has these classic classics in stock, give them a shot. They’re not bad at all.

Do they feel like classics? F4? F1?

tangar

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1734 on: June 30, 2018, 10:31:40 PM »
Your reading comprehension is fucking pathetic xen.
Man the long board truck thing killed indy for me. I was willing to set aside the racism, but long boarding, gtfo... - DH

fulfillthedream

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1735 on: July 01, 2018, 06:29:51 AM »
Your reading comprehension is fucking pathetic xen.


he gotsa work on them observation skillz
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boogs

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1736 on: July 01, 2018, 06:34:22 AM »
some of the newer f4s are a lighter shade than they were previously. this may be because they're being manufactured somewhere else now, i'm not sure.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 07:09:12 AM by boogs »

Xen

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1737 on: July 01, 2018, 08:13:31 AM »
Your reading comprehension is fucking pathetic xen.


I’ve been skating the new  updated formula of the classicnon-F4 Spitfire’s and they may not have as much of a controllable and longer slide, but I think they’re a major improvement over how they used to be. They’ve worked perfectly fine at the park or bombing hills and I can powerslide without fear of sticking and dying. They require a tiny bit more effort to slide as opposed to the 101a F4’s which require basically no effort at all. If your local only has these classic classics in stock, give them a shot. They’re not bad at all.

Nowhere did he specify if they felt like either wheel I mentioned, only what he thought the difference between functionality is.

All three, F1, F4 and classics feel different from one another when you ride them. That's what I was after.

For all those of who haven't skated them don't know if the improved classic is a different formula, it could feel like the old F1s, sure slide plays into feel but so does terrain, maybe they felt slower than classics or faster...they could feel like STFs (plasticky, like F1s) but again, he didn't say how they felt one way or the other.



« Last Edit: July 01, 2018, 08:45:08 AM by Xen »

Sad Hippo

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1738 on: July 01, 2018, 09:52:24 AM »
Did they really update the classics or have we just been on the f4 tit so long we forgot how they skated? I never had a problem with classics, I’d still rather skate them than f4s, but my local only carries f4s...

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Re: Spitfire formula four
« Reply #1739 on: July 01, 2018, 03:02:33 PM »
Oh shit. This whole time I thought F1's were the same formula as the old classics..