Author Topic: Hardcore Thread  (Read 63905 times)

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givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #450 on: November 11, 2017, 01:58:20 PM »
Teen Idles 1st release was 2 years after  Branis' black dots (which was 78).   Misfits copied Discharge with their album earth ad (84).  I'm pretty sure discharge are fans of the misfits tho.   

Thom

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #451 on: November 11, 2017, 05:48:52 PM »
Those are all true yeah, but the term hardcore was coined by DOA in 1981.

Although teen idles were admittedly influenced by bad brains, they both moved into hardcore punk in 1979

I believe that the misfits recorded some of the first American hardcore punk songs (along with Bad Brains) for the beware EP in 1978 (3 songs were singles released IN 1978 before anyone else) before it was released in 1979

Discharge technically had singles in the very beginning of 79

Poison idea refined the sound and DOA releases an album called Hardcore 81' in 1981 naming the genre


Thom

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #452 on: November 11, 2017, 05:56:15 PM »
these guys put out my "favorite hardcore record in years" a few years back... they're long done but was pretty stoked to see this semi-decent live footage of them.  From what I've heard they were a force live (well, the singer was) and they're LP still sounds awesome.  Like a mash-up of hardcore, post-punk, and oi

Love this band!

givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #453 on: November 13, 2017, 08:27:01 PM »
Those are all true yeah, but the term hardcore was coined by DOA in 1981.

Although teen idles were admittedly influenced by bad brains, they both moved into hardcore punk in 1979

  So what genre would you call black dots  (78)?  Also about the early misfits, is that hardcore?, I don't know what hardcore is cause I haven't listened to any of the classic bands yet that get mentioned ( i dunno "sick of it all" or no 'cro mags' is the one I was thinking.)  Any way, those early misfits songs sounded more like maybe elvis-horror-punk (is that a thing?)   Reminds me of more like Roky Erickson than 'hardcore'.  I saw DOA once. ( Edit; I love these music 'who was first' discussions but I know most people think they're petty so I appologize if it's seems lame)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 08:34:51 PM by givecigstosurfgroms »

Gay Imp Sausage Metal

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #454 on: November 19, 2017, 10:43:29 PM »
the original SS tho? shit was lightning fast when you consider when it was released
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givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #455 on: November 21, 2017, 05:11:46 PM »
the original SS tho? shit was lightning fast when you consider when it was released

  Their 1st shit was 79.  I'm not trying to take anything away from bands.  But it seems all this shit came from the bad brains 1st release in 78 and hype at the time about their live performances.  It made it's impact but they just were calling it punk.  Bad brains are visionaries imo, like joni mitchell, thunders or sly stone.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 05:19:27 PM by givecigstosurfgroms »

Grampa

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #456 on: November 21, 2017, 06:57:47 PM »
Middle Class "Out Of Vogue" 1978

givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #457 on: November 21, 2017, 07:29:08 PM »
Middle Class "Out Of Vogue" 1978
  Wow!, just checked it out, there you go.  edit wait hold the door I just checked wikapedia and Middle Class released their fist shit locally and it was 1979, blogs are the only place on the net saying it was released in 78 but they also say middlemen were the 'first hc band' so I think they're distorting the realease date. Besides all these bands are shit musically compared to the bad brains who existed as a jazz band for years prior to their punk phase.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 07:48:38 PM by givecigstosurfgroms »

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #458 on: November 21, 2017, 11:18:02 PM »
the original SS tho? shit was lightning fast when you consider when it was released

  Their 1st shit was 79.  I'm not trying to take anything away from bands.  But it seems all this shit came from the bad brains 1st release in 78 and hype at the time about their live performances.  It made it's impact but they just were calling it punk.  Bad brains are visionaries imo, like joni mitchell, thunders or sly stone.
well there you go then, I knew it was close but how close? Like would the OG SS even have had copies of bad brains release at the time? Anyway, for the most part bad brains pioneered it, it's just a pity that their homophobia tarnished their legacy over the years.
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givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #459 on: November 22, 2017, 06:49:29 AM »
the original SS tho? shit was lightning fast when you consider when it was released

  Their 1st shit was 79.  I'm not trying to take anything away from bands.  But it seems all this shit came from the bad brains 1st release in 78 and hype at the time about their live performances.  It made it's impact but they just were calling it punk.  Bad brains are visionaries imo, like joni mitchell, thunders or sly stone.
well there you go then, I knew it was close but how close? Like would the OG SS even have had copies of bad brains release at the time? Anyway, for the most part bad brains pioneered it, it's just a pity that their homophobia tarnished their legacy over the years.

  I think this is the thing.  Aparently some famous hc band was kind enough to let the bad brains stay at there house.  The brains found out the singer was gay and vandalized the house before they left.  The scene was small to a degree and people were super pissed.  They kinda 'got the boot' sort to speak from the hard core scene  and I feel they don't get the credit for inventing hard core to this day because of that trangression.

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #460 on: November 22, 2017, 07:23:18 AM »
the original SS tho? shit was lightning fast when you consider when it was released

  Their 1st shit was 79.  I'm not trying to take anything away from bands.  But it seems all this shit came from the bad brains 1st release in 78 and hype at the time about their live performances.  It made it's impact but they just were calling it punk.  Bad brains are visionaries imo, like joni mitchell, thunders or sly stone.
well there you go then, I knew it was close but how close? Like would the OG SS even have had copies of bad brains release at the time? Anyway, for the most part bad brains pioneered it, it's just a pity that their homophobia tarnished their legacy over the years.

  I think this is the thing.  Aparently some famous hc band was kind enough to let the bad brains stay at there house.  The brains found out the singer was gay and vandalized the house before they left.  The scene was small to a degree and people were super pissed.  They kinda 'got the boot' sort to speak from the hard core scene  and I feel they don't get the credit for inventing hard core to this day because of that trangression.
Wasn't that the Big Boys from Texas?


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slappies

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #461 on: November 22, 2017, 07:28:44 AM »
the original SS tho? shit was lightning fast when you consider when it was released

  Their 1st shit was 79.  I'm not trying to take anything away from bands.  But it seems all this shit came from the bad brains 1st release in 78 and hype at the time about their live performances.  It made it's impact but they just were calling it punk.  Bad brains are visionaries imo, like joni mitchell, thunders or sly stone.
well there you go then, I knew it was close but how close? Like would the OG SS even have had copies of bad brains release at the time? Anyway, for the most part bad brains pioneered it, it's just a pity that their homophobia tarnished their legacy over the years.

  I think this is the thing.  Aparently some famous hc band was kind enough to let the bad brains stay at there house.  The brains found out the singer was gay and vandalized the house before they left.  The scene was small to a degree and people were super pissed.  They kinda 'got the boot' sort to speak from the hard core scene  and I feel they don't get the credit for inventing hard core to this day because of that trangression.
Wasn't that the Big Boys from Texas?

Yeah, MDC was involved too. Dave Dictor spread the word of Bad Brains homophobia after that and opened a lot of people's eyes. One of the dudes, may have been HR, apparently stole a bunch of money they owed Big Boys for weed and just left a letter that said "burn in hell bloodclot faggots".
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IcanthelpitImfromMilwaukee

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #462 on: November 22, 2017, 08:02:10 AM »
New Vile Gash LP, coming soon!

Thom

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #463 on: December 07, 2017, 09:30:37 AM »
It was HR from most accounts that I've read

Fuck that dude, Big Boys rule.

I would consider the horror business single and the rest of the songs on that EP (78) to be hardcore punk.

I just think the misfits had a lot to do with it and people don't recognize it because of how lame they are now...

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #464 on: December 07, 2017, 02:22:00 PM »
damn, bummed I haven't looked at this thread in awhile and missed out on some of these posts.  That Middle Class EP is one of, if not my favorite punk record of all time.  I had always heard there was a debate about what came first, Middle Class or the SS single.

Hmm... I wouldn't really consider any Misfits 'hardcore' until Walk Among Us came out.  I love everything they did (pre-reunion, obviously), but it's pretty straight forward punk rock.  Then again I've heard people say the same thing about those early Black Flag singles so a strict definition is up for debate.

Lately been digging some Japanese hardcore craziness:









and this band


Thom

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #465 on: December 07, 2017, 06:21:43 PM »
Maybe I'm biased but I thought the uptempo counting with the heavily blown out guitars and shouting was like a proto hardcore way of doing punk

Aso the intensity of their live shows

Love literally all of the bands u linked

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #466 on: December 08, 2017, 09:04:15 AM »
that 86 mentality 7" was so great. the intro always gets me goin. all the bands that tried ripping the skin oi hc after 86 were garbage. I.E. Freedom

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #467 on: December 08, 2017, 10:28:21 AM »
New Vile Gash LP, coming soon!

I end up gnar'ing you every time I come in this thread.

Matter of fact, everyone's getting gnars


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bea!

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #468 on: December 08, 2017, 04:49:41 PM »
that 86 mentality 7" was so great. the intro always gets me goin. all the bands that tried ripping the skin oi hc after 86 were garbage. I.E. Freedom

check out PMS 84 from Portland.  great UK 82' style oi/hc... also Wartribe from Oakland.

Funny I was thinking about this today... what is considered the first HC band with that ultra-fast, hardcore style?  I know "Out of Vogue" the song is considered the first HC song, but the Middle Class weren't really a fast hardcore band (btw the stuff they released after 'Out of Vogue' is great post-punk). 

Bad Brains maybe?  Some of those early DC records like the Untouchables?  I am ashamed that this isn't something I already know... or maybe I do and I'm forgetting the obvious answer.

Grampa

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #469 on: December 08, 2017, 05:29:23 PM »
that 86 mentality 7" was so great. the intro always gets me goin. all the bands that tried ripping the skin oi hc after 86 were garbage. I.E. Freedom

check out PMS 84 from Portland.  great UK 82' style oi/hc... also Wartribe from Oakland.

Funny I was thinking about this today... what is considered the first HC band with that ultra-fast, hardcore style?  I know "Out of Vogue" the song is considered the first HC song, but the Middle Class weren't really a fast hardcore band (btw the stuff they released after 'Out of Vogue' is great post-punk). 

Bad Brains maybe?  Some of those early DC records like the Untouchables?  I am ashamed that this isn't something I already know... or maybe I do and I'm forgetting the obvious answer.

I donít think there is an obvious answer to this.

IcanthelpitImfromMilwaukee

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #470 on: December 09, 2017, 04:59:12 PM »
that 86 mentality 7" was so great. the intro always gets me goin. all the bands that tried ripping the skin oi hc after 86 were garbage. I.E. Freedom

check out PMS 84 from Portland.  great UK 82' style oi/hc... also Wartribe from Oakland.

Funny I was thinking about this today... what is considered the first HC band with that ultra-fast, hardcore style?  I know "Out of Vogue" the song is considered the first HC song, but the Middle Class weren't really a fast hardcore band (btw the stuff they released after 'Out of Vogue' is great post-punk). 

Bad Brains maybe?  Some of those early DC records like the Untouchables?  I am ashamed that this isn't something I already know... or maybe I do and I'm forgetting the obvious answer.

I donít think there is an obvious answer to this.
I guess if speed's the main factor being considered, "Out of Vogue" should probably be considered the first, though honestly, I bet there was other stuff elsewhere, domestically or globally, that came out before it that either didn't get released or no one ever heard that could've been considered Hardcore. Either way "Pay to Cum" and "Nervous Breakdown", which was  released the same month as "Out of Vogue", shit all over it.

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #471 on: December 09, 2017, 05:04:46 PM »
It's been too long since anyone's posted anything about Disclose, so here we go:

givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #472 on: December 10, 2017, 06:41:21 AM »
that 86 mentality 7" was so great. the intro always gets me goin. all the bands that tried ripping the skin oi hc after 86 were garbage. I.E. Freedom

check out PMS 84 from Portland.  great UK 82' style oi/hc... also Wartribe from Oakland.

Funny I was thinking about this today... what is considered the first HC band with that ultra-fast, hardcore style?  I know "Out of Vogue" the song is considered the first HC song, but the Middle Class weren't really a fast hardcore band (btw the stuff they released after 'Out of Vogue' is great post-punk). 

Bad Brains maybe?  Some of those early DC records like the Untouchables?  I am ashamed that this isn't something I already know... or maybe I do and I'm forgetting the obvious answer.

I donít think there is an obvious answer to this.
I guess if speed's the main factor being considered, "Out of Vogue" should probably be considered the first, though honestly, I bet there was other stuff elsewhere, domestically or globally, that came out before it that either didn't get released or no one ever heard that could've been considered Hardcore. Either way "Pay to Cum" and "Nervous Breakdown", which was  released the same month as "Out of Vogue", shit all over it.
     
  "out of vogue" was 1979.  The only sources saying it was 78 are blogs trying to say middleclass was the first hardcore band.  Black dots was before everything your mentioning. Teen Idles came after too.  People do not like swallowing that this whole thing is from the Bad Brains.  Everyone in the scene feels justified enough in their efforts to re-envision history regarding who the first hard core band was because the bad brains were known homo phobic assholes.  But the truth is the truth.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 06:58:42 AM by givecigstosurfgroms »

Grampa

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #473 on: December 10, 2017, 08:10:43 AM »
Where are you getting this information that Black Dots was released in 1978? Wikipedia says it wasnít recorded until 1979. I can only find YouTube videos saying it was 1978.

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #474 on: December 10, 2017, 11:00:40 AM »
Where are you getting this information that Black Dots was released in 1978? Wikipedia says it wasnít recorded until 1979. I can only find YouTube videos saying it was 1978.

And... Out of Vogue was released in January of 1979, recorded in 1978.  Black Dots was recorded in 79, and wasnít even released until 1996 (not taking away from how amazing and ahead of their time they were.... apparently theyíre big influence was the Ramones which shows how original they were).

Iím sure there was other stuff recorded around or before... like the above mentioned SS.  Shit, Discharge was playing in 77, 78 but didnít release anything till 80.

givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #475 on: December 10, 2017, 03:19:22 PM »
  So I was compleately wrong and went off on a tirade of misinformation.  Sorry about that.

IcanthelpitImfromMilwaukee

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #476 on: December 10, 2017, 06:58:12 PM »
Also, do people still really care about the Bad Brainís homophobia? Iím not trying to justify it, and itís great to stand up for your convictions, but I know a lot of gay Hardcore folks and in all my years, the issueís never come up. Rock for Light, the Roir Cassette, Black Dots and I Against I have always just been considered mandatory by everyone.

IcanthelpitImfromMilwaukee

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #477 on: December 10, 2017, 07:04:25 PM »
Where are you getting this information that Black Dots was released in 1978? Wikipedia says it wasnít recorded until 1979. I can only find YouTube videos saying it was 1978.

And... Out of Vogue was released in January of 1979, recorded in 1978.  Black Dots was recorded in 79, and wasnít even released until 1996 (not taking away from how amazing and ahead of their time they were.... apparently theyíre big influence was the Ramones which shows how original they were).

Iím sure there was other stuff recorded around or before... like the above mentioned SS.  Shit, Discharge was playing in 77, 78 but didnít release anything till 80.
Apparently Discharge started off by playing the Clash rip off type stuff. I can only imagine what that sounded like.

bea!

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #478 on: December 10, 2017, 08:02:51 PM »
Also, do people still really care about the Bad Brainís homophobia? Iím not trying to justify it, and itís great to stand up for your convictions, but I know a lot of gay Hardcore folks and in all my years, the issueís never come up. Rock for Light, the Roir Cassette, Black Dots and I Against I have always just been considered mandatory by everyone.

yeah I've never really heard it brought up either.  the best thing to come out of that situation is the band Bloodclot Faggots from Australia putting out one of the better hardcore singles of the decade.

Where are you getting this information that Black Dots was released in 1978? Wikipedia says it wasnít recorded until 1979. I can only find YouTube videos saying it was 1978.

And... Out of Vogue was released in January of 1979, recorded in 1978.  Black Dots was recorded in 79, and wasnít even released until 1996 (not taking away from how amazing and ahead of their time they were.... apparently theyíre big influence was the Ramones which shows how original they were).

Iím sure there was other stuff recorded around or before... like the above mentioned SS.  Shit, Discharge was playing in 77, 78 but didnít release anything till 80.
Apparently Discharge started off by playing the Clash rip off type stuff. I can only imagine what that sounded like.

well hopefully it went over better than the Grave New World-tour!

http://truepunkmetal.blogspot.com/2012/07/discharge-live-at-farm-in-sf-sept-7th.html



Thom

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Re: Hardcore Thread
« Reply #479 on: December 10, 2017, 08:44:14 PM »
Oh god no