attn: companies who make videos...

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

ever thought about a proper payment method for filmers? FILMERS GET JACKED!!!!! They screw up their backs, they work on the skaters time, they pay for their own tapes, which aren't cheap, they break $2000 cameras(that don't get reimbursed), and they give their life to this crap. I had a very good friend name Victor who filmed me nearly everyday for 7 months. He spent a lot of money on gas, tapes, and spent his own time to film us. When it was all said and done, he had to wait till sales got back from the video in order to get his money. The company was backed by time warner so I thought that was hella lame. Many months later he submitted his reciepts and got 2-3 grand in total. WTF??? 2-3 grand for 7 months of work? That's below minimum wage when you do the math. I think he broke something on his camera to that cost him about
$400 to fix. I think he filmed for a little while longer than realized it just wasn't worth what he was putting in.

JUST SOMETHING I THINK DESERVES SOME THOUGHT...

[NRG]

what he coudn't stand up for himself? He could have just withheld his footage and demanded some payment. It's like any other job for most large companies. Sometimes you gotta look out for yourself otherwise companies are looking to screw you. If they can get away with paying you less, they'll do it.

I'd imagine zero,girl, habitat etc. all pay their filmers fine. Time Warner would screw anyone over

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

Thing is, he's not gonna hold footage back when it's a friends footage. It's kind of hard to hash out a number ahead of time when there's more filming to do. Not really but it wasn't done. Basically he had to take what they gave him.

I'm sure there are a FEW filimers getting properly paid but it's like you're either getting paid good or you're getting peanuts. No middle ground from what I can see. It's almost as if they account for everything in the budget except for the filmers. Just thought I'd bring it up cause in my life I've heard gripes from skaters, gripes from company guys, gripes from kids, but never heard gripes from filmers. just trying to stick up for the dudes out there who have gave it there all for nothing. They deserve to have people sticking up for them.

[ciaran]

Time warner = transworld.

[TotallyAwesome]

Until free video on the internet goes away, freelance filmers arn't going to make much money if any at all.  When Circa gave away it's full length video for free it pretty much marked an end to an era of paying for something that is an advertising tool anyway.  If a video isn't being sold to make money and only generating expense, a company is going to try to mitigate that.  Therefore, filmers are the first to lose out...

I am not advocating that video should be free, however, i am in tune with the reality of the situation.  Economics dictate everything.  Also, I have seen a lot of greedy local filmers end up all pissed off.  They don't think they have to pay their dues and think they're better than the ty evans', rb umali's, and dan wolfe's of the world.  They might be, but this is an industry that makes you work harder than the average guy on Wall Street just to earn a nickel...

[shuvit]

i have filmed my favorite skaters and for free. i want to do their tricks justice. i want to capture the trick the way it should be seen. thats more important than money.

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

you must be rich than, or have other ways to meet you financial need.
The industry loves guys like you. Next thing you know you're on tour with
a $5 a day perdiem, designated driver, and the guy who has to bail out
the team drunk. DO YOU GET PAID FOR THAT, FUCK NO!!!!

I'm trying to stick up for people who ARE GOOD FILMERS but need to pay
the bills for their hard work.

Kind of the same for skating too but that's a whole nother story.

[dub131]

so if the filming aspect of the industry sucks dont become a filmer. i dont have sympathy for the filmers, they get to tour with pros and go across the world. just my opinion.

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

That's called exploitation. You take advantage of ones love for the sport. I imagine
tour is fun for them but it's still work no matter how you look at it. That said, only
a small minority enjoy those perks.

My point thru all of this is, skating is ran like a frat. Don't be fooled.

[shuvit]

"magik" i am not trying to be like that my friend. its only that.... and what i'm sayin' is i like to watch skatin' and i don't concern myself with money. its just that certain people will always help you out.

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

I commend you for that. Maybe it couldn't get done without guys like you.

[mikefork]

basically i filmed someone for months expecting nothing because i was making a "local" video(i later said fuck it i am not making this and made a video for the skatepark instead) then someone who i looked up to stole the stuff i didn't even expect to get. i was pissed

[captain sensible]

what do you expect? Filming skateboarding is not a career, if you are looking to make money this is definitely the wrong market.

[cmills]

i wonder if MAGIK INC pays their filmers, if they dont stand up for themselves why care? NRG is right just hold the footage and wait for your money.

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

that's what you say to people who work at Mc Donalds. Who said anything about a career?
The point is it's work. That much is fact. In order for them to do "work" they have to be available
and it's most likely gonna be on the skaters time, and that would be in the daytime. So a filmer would
actually have to work the graveyard shift to pay bills(turning his life upside down). My entire point is that
this is something that has NEVER been addressed and is something to think about. Just like how a secretary
at asgoijgvsd skateboards get insurance coverage but the kids that are actually breaking a sweat have to pay for their balls to be drained after they racked there nuts on a rail. They then have the gaul to try to let everyone know that they offered to pay half. Pay half my ass, pay for the whole surgery.

[x]

that's what you say to people who work at Mc Donalds. Who said anything about a career?
The point is it's work. That much is fact. In order for them to do "work" they have to be available
and it's most likely gonna be on the skaters time, and that would be in the daytime. So a filmer would
actually have to work the graveyard shift to pay bills(turning his life upside down). My entire point is that
this is something that has NEVER been addressed and is something to think about. Just like how a secretary
at asgoijgvsd skateboards get insurance coverage but the kids that are actually breaking a sweat have to pay for their balls to be drained after they racked there nuts on a rail. They then have the gaul to try to let everyone know that they offered to pay half. Pay half my ass, pay for the whole surgery

mark brandstetter use to work from 6 pm to 6 am  and sleep and film till about 5
if you want it bad enough youll do what you have to to make it

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

so he turned his life upside down for filming? I tip my cap, really.

Not only was I trying point out something, I wanted to give some appreciation to the under appreciated.

[x]

i agree with you 100% filmers dont get enough respect but you gotta be like brandstetter to get it

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

You're right. It was just personal to see a friend put in soo much and get so little.

[plastic bench nerd]

ever thought about a proper payment method for filmers? FILMERS GET JACKED!!!!! They screw up their backs, they work on the skaters time, they pay for their own tapes, which aren't cheap, they break $2000 cameras(that don't get reimbursed), and they give their life to this crap. I had a very good friend name Victor who filmed me nearly everyday for 7 months. He spent a lot of money on gas, tapes, and spent his own time to film us. When it was all said and done, he had to wait till sales got back from the video in order to get his money. The company was backed by time warner so I thought that was hella lame. Many months later he submitted his reciepts and got 2-3 grand in total. WTF??? 2-3 grand for 7 months of work? That's below minimum wage when you do the math. I think he broke something on his camera to that cost him about
$400 to fix. I think he filmed for a little while longer than realized it just wasn't worth what he was putting in.

JUST SOMETHING I THINK DESERVES SOME THOUGHT...

that type of buisness is definetly depressing for both the filmer and the skater, they should both be getting payed, only in a non existent perfect world i guess.

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

It can be done. The skaters maybe not because it can be apart of sponsorship, but it's just a little slice
taken out of the pie.

I was gonna throw in on a vid and was filled in on some details. They said 5 grand would make us 20 grand, guaranteed. I'm sure now sales are down due to
the net but something can be done.

[plastic bench nerd]

It can be done. The skaters maybe not because it can be apart of sponsorship, but it's just a little slice
taken out of the pie.

I was gonna throw in on a vid and was filled in on some details. They said 5 grand would make us 20 grand, guaranteed. I'm sure now sales are down due to
the net but something can be done.

you should do a "emb" and "pier 7" documentry, the advancement and udder ripping that went down at those spots by all of you locals? someone would have to be regular not to buy that!


 i spent one night when i was 16 tripped out on acid for the first time, i watched your "pack of lies" part and caroll's "questionable" part over and over, must of watched each part over a hundred times, ah 1992! those were some goodtimes!

[sheffledge]

It can be done. The skaters maybe not because it can be apart of sponsorship, but it's just a little slice
taken out of the pie.

I was gonna throw in on a vid and was filled in on some details. They said 5 grand would make us 20 grand, guaranteed. I'm sure now sales are down due to
the net but something can be done.

its dope to

read the sanch and pbn talkin bout shit we ( skaters that dont know dogshit about the industry) hardly if ever think about

do the knowledge and let shit like this be known

without filmers we wouldnt see shit

people film all over the planet and we get to see so much stellar shit

and its all due to them

big up filmers

they are like the dishwashers of professional skating

in the sense that dishwashers get shitted on so much but a restaraunt could not function without them

the same way professional skatin could not function without its filmers

ps

within the last month we (slap pals) have gotten more information about the sanch in the past month than every major magazine combined has in his whole career,WHOA. slapmatters

[NRG]

Hypothetical situation here...... Say filmers were paid quite handsomely..... More people would be filmers to make cash, and less quality filming would produced...... sorry just playing devil's advocate. 

I think a very good perspective has been brought up here. Filmers get shit on. The quality of filming can make or break any trick, and ruin a potentially good skate flick. 

I'd like to commend all the excellant filmers out there.  I know alot of skateboarders probably ignore the creative side of filming, but videos these days need the style of a good filmer and editor to stay relevant.  French Fred, and the habitat guys do excellent work. Im sure there are tons more whose names go forgotten.

[grimcity]

I assume that most skate filmers do other freelance gigs as well, rather than just skate filming, right? That's such a  narrow niche'.

I mean, freelance is all about hustling, be it video, photography, or design work... wedding photos one day, skate pics the next.

[donnie_murdo]

It totally depends on who the footage is for, i've filmed some tricks, then been prompted to put in an invoice for either cash or product, to be honest i wasn't even botherd all i was doing was standing about pointing the camera, i'm not a filmer, but got paid for 4 tricks - i was stoked on that

On of my other friends who does film, he works as a camera man in the TV industry, asks payrate/time/etc and invoices everything like a fucker, then claims his tax back and does pretty well out of it, it's if you know how to play there game or not, people will fuck you over unless you make it know you can be a total cunt about it

Holding footage hostage ? Your best bet of getting paid !

[BigGayFag]

fuck you. you're an idiot.

[A*]

I remember reading a Ty's article about that, getting paid and that whole deal.

seems to suck for those that film or do freelance for huge corporations(including outside of skating)  and get calls every other day like Ty explained in his article and then the companies claim they are working on a limited budget (for whatever million dollar in sales they will be getting later), and say they can't pay filmers or production crew.

I think filmers are between the sword and the wall because they could be like "yeah i wont give my footy until money comes visiting" but at the same time they'll be "It's my friends footy, he need exposure, i really want to help him out", that must suck right there.

I also think that all the good filmers right now, started just swaping the camera around with friends and making little videos and stuff like that, getting their clips in some skate videos for free or trade or something?

 like who starts filming at 10 thinking of making it in filming as opposed to skating?

anyways, Companies that go like "we are not selling anything so we aren't making any money of our videos, so we cant pay", should get on the market dept of their building they work for and ask the marketing team about prod placement, demographic research and Affiliate Marketing For Profit, before slaying the "we are on a budget" to invoicing filmers or any other people that has to get paid(on anything) and get screwed

[MAGIK INC GROUPIE]

I think filmers are between the sword and the wall because they could be like "yeah i wont give my footy until money comes visiting" but at the same time they'll be "It's my friends footy, he need exposure, i really want to help him out", that must suck right there.

And companies do know this. Dang that's got to be tough on the filmer.  If the filmer holds back footy
then sponsor tells skater that filmer is greedy, when in actuality he's just looking out for himself.

IF THERE'S ANY PROS OUT THERE HEARING THIS, BUY YOUR FILMER LUNCH ONCE IN A WHILE AT LEAST.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

I used to work for a shop and I made a video for them just for fun, not expecting money. I worked my ass off filming and editting it, using an editting machine, not a computer. The asshole manager (who eventually would go onto steal money from the shop, putting it out of business) made a big deal about how I wasn't going to get anything for this, something which I already knew, but the way he put it, as if I was just trying to con him or something pissed me off enough that I took the shop's name out of it entirely, took out the parts from the guys who I had issues with and were only on the team due to the fact that they were buddies with the manager anyway, gave full parts to some friends who didn't ride for the shop and released it myself, just because the guy was an ungrateful prick. All I wanted was a thank you. I sold it for $5, or was giving it away for free to anybody who gave me a blank vhs tape. All the footage and hardwork was mine, and luckily the sponsorship was so shitty (the kids who skated for the shop got like a 10% discount, and if they got hooked up by anybody outside of the shop, the manager would do what he could to fuck it up so they would keep buying shit at 90% price) that nobody got pissed at me.

The only thing that really fucks filmers is that for every professional filmer out there, there are 500 kids trying to get the gig who will do it for cheaper, I'm sure most guys know that they are replaceable, which maintains the shitty situation.