Relevance and lifespan of the small skate brand

[144p]

Over the last 2 years new brands have exploded, with even more planned for the next tradeshow I have no doubts.
But I am seeing A trend as soon as something is more widely distributed, the excitement wanes and people move on to the next or even step back to something they have experience with.
Obviously things do have more regional success say with Primitive in So cal or if a rider is affiliated with a certain shop it does well, but how long is this window of interest before that type of person's attention is drawn away to the newest?
Years ago Traffic, Landscape, Blueprint and Coda were the first wave, then Welcome, Polar, Magenta, Isle, Hopps etc and now FA/Hockey, Mother, Transportation Unit, Bianca/917 and many others.  Is it team, video, art or just the right mix of everything? Is it how exclusive it is?

What does it take to even register nationally? Ronnie Creager, tbone, James Craig and a slew of other pros past and present are running small brands without a fraction of the attention some of these other ones get.

If this topic has been done to death tell me to kick rocks, but hanging out at a shop all day and trying to keep up on what people are actually interested in seeing on a shops walls and why had my brain working over time.

[beazlocal]

It's just a cycle, the brands new and old will stick around as long as they want to afford to

[Julz]

In my opinion, any brand that gives back to the culture and brings something different to the table is well worth my money. That being said, I couldn't care less for alot of these new indy brands that offer nothing but graphics on PS stix and 3 minute web clips. I understand that it takes alot of energy and money to make a full lenght video, but if brands like Palace and Magenta can make it happen, there's no excuses for the others. Furthermore, alot of those new brands just feel like they we're created because the dudes on them couldn't find themselves a legitimate board sponsor...

That being said, I still buy my childhood favorite brands like baker, real and Toy Machine and I don't plan on stopping supporting them simply because a new brand pop'd up.

[tkp]

Relevance - stoking out a crew of people and giving people a motivation to go out and film / create art / shoot photos for.

Lifespan - limited to the pockets of the people backing the brand.

Pros of starting a brand - excitement, sponsoring people, finding artists to work with, team trips, ad layouts, "being apart of something"

Cons - sitting on inventory, sales, you are entering an industry that is already saturated with functional skateboards, trying to turn a profit on decks is pretty damn difficult so you better be ready to just lose money, it's already been done a million times so hopefully you have something very unique to offer to the skate world

[too much]

I think it's how much you're willing to spend/invest into the launch and next couple years. How big of a scope you want with your investment...maybe old school pros doing their own thing only realize their reach based off their investment...good planning...forecasting....super hard stuff to do actually...which is why you see brands flop...because they fuck that up.

But other than that coming up is definitely videos, another difficult task. There are so many videos coming out if you happen to drop the gem that everyone talks about for the whole year, then you should move apparel/decks...And it's not about the one video...you need to stack and kill it and film with everybody and not be so exclusive...be inclusive...include people....cool guy shit is a turn off for most skaters. Only non skaters like that shit, and always have. I think Welcome is doing well because they go with low budget content on a frequent basis and no cool guy nonsense...

T shirt brand or stickers is an easy thing to start, both a commodity. I guess board manufacturers just produce boards at the same cost for everyone? I've heard pro's talking about the pro model board days are over...because skaters go to shop boards...Maybe it's really the board manufacturers selling out to the mom and pops. If they're doing that I don't want to assume...about the board industry itself...When companies do that it's a supply/demand issue...overstock so sell to everyone same price...Which could be board sales are slow for the big skate brands or the board manufacturers are getting shipped too much wood. Whatever the overstock reason is...I'm sure it's complicated.

[spool of cord]

I heard Yellow Brand is staging a major, major comeback

[pinche gringo]

I don't base my interest in things on exclusivity. I know that I'm not a part of anything based on the brands I choose to support. Transportation Unit for example, I've always been a fan of Russ Pope, so I buy his stuff. I try to be considerate of where my money is going. I think it's awesome that there are so many new companies, but I can imagine it would be really difficult to predict what is going to hold peoples interest over the next few years. I hope that helps.

[jgonzalez]

I wonder how much influence and how much of a role Instagram/Social media has played in this

You can follow micro brands and buy from their web store. The consumer base now has such a wide variety of options lots of different shit can exist.

[j....soy.....]

kinda tough to differentiate your product because there is so much out there....you don't need to buy ads the same way so it's hard to tell them apart. 

[Dengles]

Depends on the company.

Magenta, Polar, Scum co, Politic etc. . . all seem to have a very dedicated underground following in my area and it doesn't seem like the people that buy their products regularly are just in on a trend they really seem to like these companies. 

Fucking Awesome/Hockey seem like they have fairly small runs and their boards seem like they always sell out so this could keep people interested in them for a long time despite the lack of content.  But we'll see if the hype beast sales model stays lucrative for them. 

Welcome, is a trend.  I've noticed a massive decrease in the amount of attention and boards/product bought they've been getting were I live, I don't think they'll be around forever which is a shame because those guys look like they're having a lot of fun. 

Mother Collective, I have a good feeling the Mother will become a skateboard brand on the level of popularity and success as the biggest brands because they are rad. 

Internet companies, Andy Shrock will be in the news as a result of some sort of child molestation sting by the FBI someday and revive and force will be gone not much long after that. 

[MYXGAMES2015]

Depends on the company.

Magenta, Polar, Scum co, Politic etc. . . all seem to have a very dedicated underground following in my area and it doesn't seem like the people that buy their products regularly are just in on a trend they really seem to like these companies. 

Fucking Awesome/Hockey seem like they have fairly small runs and their boards seem like they always sell out so this could keep people interested in them for a long time despite the lack of content.  But we'll see if the hype beast sales model stays lucrative for them. 

Welcome, is a trend.  I've noticed a massive decrease in the amount of attention and boards/product bought they've been getting were I live, I don't think they'll be around forever which is a shame because those guys look like they're having a lot of fun.

Mother Collective, I have a good feeling the Mother will become a skateboard brand on the level of popularity and success as the biggest brands because they are rad. 

Internet companies, Andy Shrock will be in the news as a result of some sort of child molestation sting by the FBI someday and revive and force will be gone not much long after that. 

I've noticed the same thing. Seems like riding weird shaped boards is kind of like being a lesbian. Lots of people experiment with it. Maybe they are even into it for a long time. But eventually, most go back to riding the good ol' popsicle.

[Dengles]

Owning and running a small brand for me has been a mixture of excitement, inspiration, anxiety, and frustration. Costs, trying to manage a cohesive crew, and feeling intimidated by other companies and shops are gnarly things to deal with. But, no matter how hard I try I cannot picture myself doing anything else at the moment and that keeps me going. I think this is the reason small companies will continue to sprout up from season to season. Some will grow and multiply while others will wither and die.

I can't shake the feeling that its the companies relationship with shops that truly determines its survival, no matter how hot the company may be at one time or another. I consider the shops to be the gatekeepers of what product gets a pass or not into whatever scene they support... for better or for worse.

Some people simply love skateboarding and to be able to contribute something rad to the culture that radiates from it is a dream come true whether it be big or small. The rest is just getting shit together and at the same time not rushing things. Selling skateboards isn't easy but it ain't rocket science either. Developing and maintaining relevance within the skate industry, on the other-hand, is the real challenge. All the gnarly points mentioned above can be a real bummer if you let them nibble on your mind too much.

I have a feeling that any company, shop, crew, or skater that keeps even a nugg of passion in their core will at least have a fighting chance at making something sick happen, whether it be a company, shop, video-part, whatever. Its kinda on some "Field of Dreams" shit.

This is why I have such a good feeling about Mother Collective.  They're always commenting on the local shop's instagrams and they seem to have a great relationship with the shop owner.   They're also thanking people for who by their goods and tagging photos of it.  I know social media is kind of lame but like these are the little things that really distinguish them as a company and makes people want to buy boards.  If I didn't have two decks waiting to be set up I'd go buy a mother just because of how down to earth the whole company seems. 

[the canadian suit]

Depends on the company.

Magenta, Polar, Scum co, Politic etc. . . all seem to have a very dedicated underground following in my area and it doesn't seem like the people that buy their products regularly are just in on a trend they really seem to like these companies. 

Fucking Awesome/Hockey seem like they have fairly small runs and their boards seem like they always sell out so this could keep people interested in them for a long time despite the lack of content.  But we'll see if the hype beast sales model stays lucrative for them. 

Welcome, is a trend.  I've noticed a massive decrease in the amount of attention and boards/product bought they've been getting were I live, I don't think they'll be around forever which is a shame because those guys look like they're having a lot of fun. 

Mother Collective, I have a good feeling the Mother will become a skateboard brand on the level of popularity and success as the biggest brands because they are rad. 

Internet companies, Andy Shrock will be in the news as a result of some sort of child molestation sting by the FBI someday and revive and force will be gone not much long after that. 

Dont you live in Baltimore? We have Spivey, Dykes and Zachy all repping those companies... It makes sense they're popular here

[straight]

To me- relevance and lifespan aren't as important as impact. Listen--->blvd is an example

[144p]

To me- relevance and lifespan aren't as important as impact. Listen--->blvd is an example

Agreed, which I think is the main point.
Flooding social media with clips isn't a sure fire way to make an impact, but your brand has to have some type of feeling to convey.
And the length of the impact, such an interesting concept. How to create a long lasting impression.

[mattofallmatts]

I heard Yellow Brand is staging a major, major comeback

hahahaha. Lucien, is that you?

[Babby]

Skateboarding has been letting the money get sucked right out of it for years now and a lot of these new companies, claiming to be a breath of fresh air, are actually just melodic last gasps. 

When playing peekaboo with a baby, in order to elicit a consistent positive reaction, you find yourself having to make a new face with each revelation . 

[Jares]

 

To me- relevance and lifespan aren't as important as impact. Listen--->blvd is an example

This is a very true statement, especially when it comes to BLVD, every video they've put out has been brilliant. I remember when I first saw the old P.W.B.C videos, Palace immediately became my favorite company. Also, Seeing Scumco's boards one day totally had me floored, I hadn't even seen any media from them, the product in and of itself was enough to convince me they were worth continual support.

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Owning and running a small brand for me has been a mixture of excitement, inspiration, anxiety, and frustration. Costs, trying to manage a cohesive crew, and feeling intimidated by other companies and shops are gnarly things to deal with. But, no matter how hard I try I cannot picture myself doing anything else at the moment and that keeps me going. I think this is the reason small companies will continue to sprout up from season to season. Some will grow and multiply while others will wither and die.

I can't shake the feeling that its the companies relationship with shops that truly determines its survival, no matter how hot the company may be at one time or another. I consider the shops to be the gatekeepers of what product gets a pass or not into whatever scene they support... for better or for worse.

Some people simply love skateboarding and to be able to contribute something rad to the culture that radiates from it is a dream come true whether it be big or small. The rest is just getting shit together and at the same time not rushing things. Selling skateboards isn't easy but it ain't rocket science either. Developing and maintaining relevance within the skate industry, on the other-hand, is the real challenge. All the gnarly points mentioned above can be a real bummer if you let them nibble on your mind too much.

I have a feeling that any company, shop, crew, or skater that keeps even a nugg of passion in their core will at least have a fighting chance at making something sick happen, whether it be a company, shop, video-part, whatever. Its kinda on some "Field of Dreams" shit.

[close]

This is why I have such a good feeling about Mother Collective. They're always commenting on the local shop's instagrams and they seem to have a great relationship with the shop owner.   They're also thanking people for who by their goods and tagging photos of it.  I know social media is kind of lame but like these are the little things that really distinguish them as a company and makes people want to buy boards.  If I didn't have two decks waiting to be set up I'd go buy a mother just because of how down to earth the whole company seems. 

I think this also falls under the impact point. Though these little impacts are small compared to being blown away by a video part or a product drop, they still leave little craters of devotion in the minds of those experiencing them.

[Dengles]

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Depends on the company.

Magenta, Polar, Scum co, Politic etc. . . all seem to have a very dedicated underground following in my area and it doesn't seem like the people that buy their products regularly are just in on a trend they really seem to like these companies. 

Fucking Awesome/Hockey seem like they have fairly small runs and their boards seem like they always sell out so this could keep people interested in them for a long time despite the lack of content.  But we'll see if the hype beast sales model stays lucrative for them. 

Welcome, is a trend.  I've noticed a massive decrease in the amount of attention and boards/product bought they've been getting were I live, I don't think they'll be around forever which is a shame because those guys look like they're having a lot of fun. 

Mother Collective, I have a good feeling the Mother will become a skateboard brand on the level of popularity and success as the biggest brands because they are rad. 

Internet companies, Andy Shrock will be in the news as a result of some sort of child molestation sting by the FBI someday and revive and force will be gone not much long after that. 

[close]

Dont you live in Baltimore? We have Spivey, Dykes and Zachy all repping those companies... It makes sense they're popular here

Yeah Baltimore, I guess that's why they're so popular here.  I have friends from upstate New York who are also massively into those brands so maybe I'm just over estimating their popularity. 

[Tracer]

It's ridiculous how many skate companies exist. Unless you're doing something innovative you'd make more money anywhere else in life

[sleepypancakes]

I do think that some companies that popped up around the 2nd generation of "underground" companies have really over extended or pressed their images or gimmicks too far, or tried to be too "avant garde" for lack of a better term. I think that especially Magenta has really found its ultimate extreme, it cannot be any more "Magenta" than it is now if that makes any sense. I also think that Polar may have spread too thin in its image and art direction. I can understand and sympathize with Pontus on supporting his riders and friends for their respective work, but I find myself feeling that it's really lacking some cohesiveness. The team is great and so is video impact, but the rest of it seems scattered.

At some point something has to push back against these companies, I don't know what or how, but something will.

[SlayerKiller]

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Depends on the company.

Magenta, Polar, Scum co, Politic etc. . . all seem to have a very dedicated underground following in my area and it doesn't seem like the people that buy their products regularly are just in on a trend they really seem to like these companies. 

Fucking Awesome/Hockey seem like they have fairly small runs and their boards seem like they always sell out so this could keep people interested in them for a long time despite the lack of content.  But we'll see if the hype beast sales model stays lucrative for them. 

Welcome, is a trend.  I've noticed a massive decrease in the amount of attention and boards/product bought they've been getting were I live, I don't think they'll be around forever which is a shame because those guys look like they're having a lot of fun.

Mother Collective, I have a good feeling the Mother will become a skateboard brand on the level of popularity and success as the biggest brands because they are rad. 

Internet companies, Andy Shrock will be in the news as a result of some sort of child molestation sting by the FBI someday and revive and force will be gone not much long after that. 

[close]

I've noticed the same thing. Seems like riding weird shaped boards is kind of like being a lesbian. Lots of people experiment with it. Maybe they are even into it for a long time. But eventually, most go back to riding the good ol' popsicle.

Are you a girl?? Because if not, I cannot imagine how you could have any insight on what it's like to being a lesbian.

[ratherwatch]

The narrowing of the skate media into a kind of hipster circle- jerk on many fronts has skewed what people see as success in a brand. New Deal changed the era, if you knew that one of these so- called 'new wave' brands sell 7,000 boards per year, total, it may re- calibrate how much 'industry' they have actually come to 'dominate'. As Clan (crappy Jart offshoot, loaded team, sucky graphics, natch) proved, social media bumming isn't the same as shifting units of product. Therefore the brands can't advertise, therefore their homeboys' hipster review mags shrink, therefore brands do more on instagram because its free and hey- ho, Transworld ends up with more people making it than reading it but is now Fully Legit. Hmmm.

[the canadian suit]

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Depends on the company.

Magenta, Polar, Scum co, Politic etc. . . all seem to have a very dedicated underground following in my area and it doesn't seem like the people that buy their products regularly are just in on a trend they really seem to like these companies. 

Fucking Awesome/Hockey seem like they have fairly small runs and their boards seem like they always sell out so this could keep people interested in them for a long time despite the lack of content.  But we'll see if the hype beast sales model stays lucrative for them. 

Welcome, is a trend.  I've noticed a massive decrease in the amount of attention and boards/product bought they've been getting were I live, I don't think they'll be around forever which is a shame because those guys look like they're having a lot of fun. 

Mother Collective, I have a good feeling the Mother will become a skateboard brand on the level of popularity and success as the biggest brands because they are rad. 

Internet companies, Andy Shrock will be in the news as a result of some sort of child molestation sting by the FBI someday and revive and force will be gone not much long after that. 

[close]

Dont you live in Baltimore? We have Spivey, Dykes and Zachy all repping those companies... It makes sense they're popular here

[close]

Yeah Baltimore, I guess that's why they're so popular here.  I have friends from upstate New York who are also massively into those brands so maybe I'm just over estimating their popularity. 

Oh no, I think they're definitely popular... I was recently in the South and dudes down there were asking me where to get Scumco and Magenta due to t shirt and board I had. I think it is an all over thing, but in baltimore specifically the demand is higher because of locals for sure.

[beat!]

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Depends on the company.

Magenta, Polar, Scum co, Politic etc. . . all seem to have a very dedicated underground following in my area and it doesn't seem like the people that buy their products regularly are just in on a trend they really seem to like these companies. 

Fucking Awesome/Hockey seem like they have fairly small runs and their boards seem like they always sell out so this could keep people interested in them for a long time despite the lack of content.  But we'll see if the hype beast sales model stays lucrative for them. 

Welcome, is a trend.  I've noticed a massive decrease in the amount of attention and boards/product bought they've been getting were I live, I don't think they'll be around forever which is a shame because those guys look like they're having a lot of fun. 

Mother Collective, I have a good feeling the Mother will become a skateboard brand on the level of popularity and success as the biggest brands because they are rad. 

Internet companies, Andy Shrock will be in the news as a result of some sort of child molestation sting by the FBI someday and revive and force will be gone not much long after that. 

[close]

Dont you live in Baltimore? We have Spivey, Dykes and Zachy all repping those companies... It makes sense they're popular here

[close]

Yeah Baltimore, I guess that's why they're so popular here.  I have friends from upstate New York who are also massively into those brands so maybe I'm just over estimating their popularity. 

[close]

Oh no, I think they're definitely popular... I was recently in the South and dudes down there were asking me where to get Scumco and Magenta due to t shirt and board I had. I think it is an all over thing, but in baltimore specifically the demand is higher because of locals for sure.

Scumco and all the Theories brands are getting a lotta love down here in Miami now. Took our shops some time to hop on the wagon but as soon as they did its been blowing up. Politic boards dont stay on the shelves for more than a month. And we have some locals that are good friends with the Baltimore dudes that push all those brands onto the little kids. I'm hyped on it

[the canadian suit]

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Depends on the company.

Magenta, Polar, Scum co, Politic etc. . . all seem to have a very dedicated underground following in my area and it doesn't seem like the people that buy their products regularly are just in on a trend they really seem to like these companies. 

[close]

Dont you live in Baltimore? We have Spivey, Dykes and Zachy all repping those companies... It makes sense they're popular here

[close]

Yeah Baltimore, I guess that's why they're so popular here.  I have friends from upstate New York who are also massively into those brands so maybe I'm just over estimating their popularity. 

[close]

Oh no, I think they're definitely popular... I was recently in the South and dudes down there were asking me where to get Scumco and Magenta due to t shirt and board I had. I think it is an all over thing, but in baltimore specifically the demand is higher because of locals for sure.

[close]

Scumco and all the Theories brands are getting a lotta love down here in Miami now. Took our shops some time to hop on the wagon but as soon as they did its been blowing up. Politic boards dont stay on the shelves for more than a month. And we have some locals that are good friends with the Baltimore dudes that push all those brands onto the little kids. I'm hyped on it

Hell yeah, I know Josh and John and Mikey and all of those dudes. They're the best!

[Makaveli]

I heard Yellow Brand is staging a major, major comeback

Would be so, so sick.

[Chavo]

First wave small brands Makaha and Hobie only sold product until skateboarding's second death. Makaha intermittently resurfaces as Poweredge, while Hobie continues to make surf and sailing equipment.

Sims, Walker, and Logan Earth Ski were the first wave of skater-owned small brands that, to some degree, still exist. When those and other surf companies got bigger, a wave of former pros branched off to create their own small brands: Powell Peralta, Alva, Dogtown, Z-Flex, etc. They have all been relevant and have had long lifespans.

The cycle of small brands becoming big brands and people starting their own small companies have continued: SMA, Madrid, Skull Skates, Zorlac, Blockhead, Uncle Wiggley, Schmitt Stix, SMA/Rocco, H-Street, World Industries, Shut, New Deal, Alien Workshop, Real, Birdhouse, Girl, Foundation, Deathbox, Consolidated, Think, Zoo York, etc. Many of those brands owned their own woodshops, hired their own staff, and used their own distribution channels, which I believe describes the intent of the original post (Life, Plan B, Focus, Mad Circle, Menace, Chocolate, Toy Machine, etc. either attached themselves to existing umbrella companies or were expansion teams).

TL;DR: The waxing and waning of small skate brands, until Nike came along, has been the business model for the skateboard industry.

[mini pebble]

First wave small brands Makaha and Hobie only sold product until skateboarding's second death. Makaha intermittently resurfaces as Poweredge, while Hobie continues to make surf and sailing equipment.

Sims, Walker, and Logan Earth Ski were the first wave of skater-owned small brands that, to some degree, still exist. When those and other surf companies got bigger, a wave of former pros branched off to create their own small brands: Powell Peralta, Alva, Dogtown, Z-Flex, etc. They have all been relevant and have had long lifespans.

The cycle of small brands becoming big brands and people starting their own small companies have continued: SMA, Madrid, Skull Skates, Zorlac, Blockhead, Uncle Wiggley, Schmitt Stix, SMA/Rocco, H-Street, World Industries, Shut, New Deal, Alien Workshop, Real, Birdhouse, Girl, Foundation, Deathbox, Consolidated, Think, Zoo York, etc. Many of those brands owned their own woodshops, hired their own staff, and used their own distribution channels, which I believe describes the intent of the original post (Life, Plan B, Focus, Mad Circle, Menace, Chocolate, Toy Machine, etc. either attached themselves to existing umbrella companies or were expansion teams).

TL;DR: The waxing and waning of small skate brands, until Nike came along, has been the business model for the skateboard industry.

[art hellman]

I dunno...seems out here in the middle of the middle, the small skate brands (especially Welcome) are actually just STARTING to get noticed and ridden by your average park kid, and more importantly, the local park heroes.  yes, there are plenty of dooods in the know in the nearby cities and suburbs who have been skating the stuff as long as any SLAPpal...but I'm talking about the most middle of the middle. the kids still skating the puffy DCs and Osiris.  it's only just starting out here for the kiddos.  I think it's mainly the coasts who are already ABD'ing and cool-guy'ing the small brands to death, there's plenty of board sales to be had out here in the largest demographic of the midwest.