Here we go again
excitableboy
It simply makes economic sense to invest in immigrants, in addition to it being the right thing to do. I don't bother talking to people who need convincing of the latter, and I'm sure we're all on the same page there.
Yes it makes total sense to make sure people we take in get education , jobs , healthcare . It makes no sense to just take them in
and not give them help . My point is we dont have the resources . The swedish government gave a statement yesterday that we cant deal with it . We have people sleeping in the streets . We have people sleeping on the floor in the Immigration office .
Look, a government which is failing to house its people, keep them safe and working or in a good school, at this moment, was failing to do it before this crisis broke out. Of course Sweden isn't failing, they are still doing magnificent all things considered. But, curiously, this is what you claim, while at the same time explaining how great mostly everything in Sweden is. Make up your mind. If you do think your country is in such dire straits, your beef isn't with immigrants invading your country
Swedens government was not failing before this crisis . The government is saying we cant handle this . They are not saying our healthcare or schools are failing . They are saying we are not equipped to handle this and we need help
Yes I think many things are great in sweden but that doesnt make it perfect . Kids are doing worse in school , doctors and nurses are over worked , police and fire department are complaining about budget . Right extremist are on the rise in the country . People are more and more voting for the extremist right . People are burning down refuge centers
The voting for the right wing party is a huge problem aswell , it went from a party that was ignored and ridiculed to the 2nd biggest party in sweden now . Alot of people vote for them cause they believe in the direction , and alot vote for them just to prove a point
I can have it both ways , Sweden is a country that has it better then alot of countries , but we still have problems and its getting worse
Im not sure why you think I cant have it both ways . Whats so difficult to understand about that we cant give the immigrants what they need and want ?
for weedpop
My point is that you are contradicting yourself repeatedly in everything you say on this issue. You say that the government can't just take money away from rich people, yet you are ok with Sweden's tax system? You have a top tax bracket in which roughly 51% of individual income goes to the state - that means that, not only are they taking people's money, they are taking more of it depending on how well off they are!
The tax system is one we have all agreed on , it goes to important things .
You are missunderstanding me . What Im saying is you cant have the government first tax you and then take even more money just because you are rich .
Ill give you a example , Mike has a factory he pays 40% tax , He has paid what he owes . The government cant come to his office and say Mike You payed your tax , but you are rich and we have a refuge crisis so we are taking 80% of your money after tax
This is was tufty and excitableboy or maybe just tufty was suggesting . That rich people should just have their money taken from them cause other people need it more
that means that, not only are they taking people's money, they are taking more of it depending on how well off they are!
Yes , they are taking our money , but they are giving us things back for it . If you go to the shop and buy a liter of milk , yeah they take your money but you get milk for it . I see no problem with The rich getting taxed more , cause they have more . But theres a difference between first taxing them and then taking money from them after cause somebody decides they need it more
One of the main reasons that your country has such a high standard of living - and thus is able to absorb a disproportionate number of refugees without everything going to shit, as you claim will happen - is because Swedes have collectively decided, based on MORAL PRINCIPLES, that things like progressive taxation are good, and even necessary to guarantee the welfare of the nation as a whole.
I agree , its no secret that sweden is a socialist country , or socialist / capitalist country . But we are not able to handle the refugees that you say we can handle , The EU is saying it , Swedens government is saying it , the swedish population is saying it . What more proof do you need ? talk to the refugees who are sleeping on floors , tents and some outside
Our morals are getting us in trouble here , we are trying to save everyone but its putting us in the shit
The thing that Tufty and others were getting at is that the refugee crisis, as well as a lot of Europe's other social problems, would be easier to deal with if people decided collectively to make the wealthy contribute more, and to pass laws to make it more difficult for them to accumulate huge sums of money and evade taxation
Who says the wealthy are not contributing besides tax ? Do you guys view all rich people as evil ? Im not saying I know how much
they donate or work at shelters or anythings ells and neither do you . You think all rich people are sitting on some throne made of skulls and dollar stacks ?
Look at bill gates , he donates almost all his money , sets up programs and think tanks for environment issues and for trying to end world hunger , He sponsors people and does alot more
But you have people like Steve jobs aswell , who just took and took and never gave
I can agree to tax people higher , but I dont agree to give them a cap on how much money they can have . I dont agree on the collectively deciding on who of the rich people we should take money from . Are normal people gonna tell " Mike " he has to give up his money cause we the people decided on it ?
Again, as Tufty said, the fact that you happily tout the benefits of Sweden's great social programs while saying that it is immoral to take money from the rich just because they are rich shows how little you understand the system in which you live.
Im not saying its immoral to tax rich people , Im saying you cant tax them and then take more money from them just because they are rich . We have agreed on money caps , You make X money , u get taxed Y money .
Im for taxes on money you earn cause that money goes to things you use , like roads and hospitals , school for your children .
You are confusing campaign contributions to politicians from rich people with taxes paid by rich people to the state treasury; I hope I don't have to explain the distinction between these two things to you...
I was just using it as a example how corrupt I think the US government is and how it differs from Swedens . It wasnt a example on taxes or the refugee situation
So yeah , if I missed something , sorry , debating ( if you can call it that ) 4 people here . Just post it again if I missed it
Topic: Refugee crisis in Europe. (Read 66349 times)