Author Topic: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)  (Read 1499 times)

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OrangeVHStapes

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The true aspect ratio of skateboarding. I really can't stand the way skate videos have been shot and cut since this entire HD thing came upon skating. 16:9 does not work in skate videos (in my mind at least).

But the reason I started this thread is because I recently had to admit something to myself, it left me feeling pretty complexed. I was watching Kalis's bobshirt interview and the footage they were showing from the DC video era and even photosynthesis looks fucking amazing, it pops, looks crisp, I then went and watched that new Yaje Popson part from the transworld video, which was sick but the VX quality just is not what it use to be. I don't know if that's from the way the footage is imported, the settings on the camera, how the editing program deals with SD footage or even if its just the VX's getting old and possibly somehow the quality starts to go? I don't know, even buying a video shot on VX and watching on a tv isn't the same, maybe it's these videos are best watched on older tv's? Like tube tv or whatever? Sorry if this topic has been beat to death I am just really curious what the hell is going on and why the VX edits are seeming to lose the beauty they once had...

Zimmer

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I can see what you're saying.. Like, new VX footage doesn't really look as good as older (mid 2000's and earlier) footy. Its probably a combination of a few things, maybe VX's are just getting old and the image quality is dipping, and the whole settings/importing issue that you touched on.

Maybe if this new kodak super 8 camera is a hit more companies will think of offering new film cameras. If only to please hipsters and skate footage aficionados.

silhouette

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i was trying to watch that yaje part on a tv just the other day too, only to just then notice how badly rendered the footage looked, probably just like you did. i had watched it on my phone before and remembered it looking just fine on that (fine enough for me not to notice anything special about the quality, at least), so i was thrown off.

in this case i think whoever exported the web version of the file probably rushed things and / or used the wrong compression settings (which i reckon doesn't sound likely in the context of transworld standards, yet appears to be the case to me here). i haven't watched riddles in mathematics on dvd yet, but i'm sure (or at least hope) that version would look right.

as far as some other videos may be concerned (i've observed similar quality flaws on the dvd version of a few indie films, most notably on some select clips in them which only enhances my next point) i think the issue has more to do with bad camera settings, vx footage can look like the day and the night depending on how the camera is used, the movement of the camera in itself but the sharpness, color, white balance etc. combo as well. i think filmers used to have more firmly set standards with the vx camera settings before, whilst a lot of people have been experimenting a lot more in that department lately, sometimes all for the better and sometimes it just doesn't work. and again, some others are just lazy on the settings part. see the works of yoan taillandier, colin read / mandible claw, brett nichols / happenstance, jake harris or tightbooth productions (TBPR) for modern instances of crisp, clean vx work
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 01:35:03 AM by silhouette »

GinosGroceries

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If only they made a camera that shot 4:3, had the same quality as a VX, but with the convenience of no tapes.
"I'm not used to skateboarding, but I wish I can do it. I swear I want to be able to do it."

Phillip Flathead

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I cant remember the exact explanation, but people on skateperception (rip) always said that the footage coming out of vx's looked significantly better on older tv's and monitors because of how the pixels refreshed or some shit. Plus a vhs or dvd likely has a different and possibly more optimized form of compression. Youtube hates SD videos and upscales them to 720p on upload, so the smart filmers export in 720p to save some quality.

All this being said, there are a bunch of affordable paths to shooting 4:3 aspect ratio stuff in HD as far as fisheyes go, but not that many filmers choose those routes.

Parker

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importing, exporting, you name it. Footage gets fucked a lot with during exporting. Its all about your settings.

shitcunt

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I cant remember the exact explanation, but people on skateperception (rip) always said that the footage coming out of vx's looked significantly better on older tv's and monitors because of how the pixels refreshed or some shit. Plus a vhs or dvd likely has a different and possibly more optimized form of compression. Youtube hates SD videos and upscales them to 720p on upload, so the smart filmers export in 720p to save some quality.

All this being said, there are a bunch of affordable paths to shooting 4:3 aspect ratio stuff in HD as far as fisheyes go, but not that many filmers choose those routes.
What are those routes? I'm trying to keep it 4:3 and not have to deal with tapes.

Parker

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I cant remember the exact explanation, but people on skateperception (rip) always said that the footage coming out of vx's looked significantly better on older tv's and monitors because of how the pixels refreshed or some shit. Plus a vhs or dvd likely has a different and possibly more optimized form of compression. Youtube hates SD videos and upscales them to 720p on upload, so the smart filmers export in 720p to save some quality.

All this being said, there are a bunch of affordable paths to shooting 4:3 aspect ratio stuff in HD as far as fisheyes go, but not that many filmers choose those routes.
What are those routes? I'm trying to keep it 4:3 and not have to deal with tapes.


There was just a thread about this recently. You can buy a dslr and you can make it film in 4:3 and there are a few good fisheyes that make it look like a vx, i can't exactly remember. But its pretty common trend now its pretty cool imo.

shitcunt

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I cant remember the exact explanation, but people on skateperception (rip) always said that the footage coming out of vx's looked significantly better on older tv's and monitors because of how the pixels refreshed or some shit. Plus a vhs or dvd likely has a different and possibly more optimized form of compression. Youtube hates SD videos and upscales them to 720p on upload, so the smart filmers export in 720p to save some quality.

All this being said, there are a bunch of affordable paths to shooting 4:3 aspect ratio stuff in HD as far as fisheyes go, but not that many filmers choose those routes.
What are those routes? I'm trying to keep it 4:3 and not have to deal with tapes.


There was just a thread about this recently. You can buy a dslr and you can make it film in 4:3 and there are a few good fisheyes that make it look like a vx, i can't exactly remember. But its pretty common trend now its pretty cool imo.

Yeah my dslr shoots in 4:3 SD, but I can't work out how to get a proper vignette as it's not like I can just add spacer rings to my 8mm fisheye like on a camcorder. I assume I need to buy a full frame body and put a crop sensor fisheye on it or something.

poopmonkey

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VX still got it, just take a look at Spirit Quest on dvd. I think it's got a lot to do with the way people import & export footage.

OrangeVHStapes

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 08:15:46 PM »
VX still got it, just take a look at Spirit Quest on dvd. I think it's got a lot to do with the way people import & export footage.


A buddy of mine had a viewing part for Spirit Quest a while back. Watched it on a newer TV and I still sorta felt the same feeling, no doubt it looked better than most of the VX stuff coming out these days. I would love to find out the exact settings people used for importing and exporting footage, I am an editor so that stuff makes sense to me but I am sure that shit is super specific. Anybody know any proper VX filmers that have any idea?

Parker

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 10:18:46 PM »
I mean if your tv is set to 16x9 and your watching a SD video, its going to look like shit haha. That should be pretty obvious.

Parker

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 10:19:42 PM »
I cant remember the exact explanation, but people on skateperception (rip) always said that the footage coming out of vx's looked significantly better on older tv's and monitors because of how the pixels refreshed or some shit. Plus a vhs or dvd likely has a different and possibly more optimized form of compression. Youtube hates SD videos and upscales them to 720p on upload, so the smart filmers export in 720p to save some quality.

All this being said, there are a bunch of affordable paths to shooting 4:3 aspect ratio stuff in HD as far as fisheyes go, but not that many filmers choose those routes.
What are those routes? I'm trying to keep it 4:3 and not have to deal with tapes.


There was just a thread about this recently. You can buy a dslr and you can make it film in 4:3 and there are a few good fisheyes that make it look like a vx, i can't exactly remember. But its pretty common trend now its pretty cool imo.

Yeah my dslr shoots in 4:3 SD, but I can't work out how to get a proper vignette as it's not like I can just add spacer rings to my 8mm fisheye like on a camcorder. I assume I need to buy a full frame body and put a crop sensor fisheye on it or something.

Yea as far as I know you ain't adding a spacer on that haha. But I know people add the MK1 vig overlay while editing and that looks great. If you need it let me know.

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2017, 10:21:58 PM »
Anybody know any proper VX filmers that have any idea?
mandibleclaw (Colin Read) posts here

pointandclick

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2017, 10:47:59 PM »
i would love if someone could convert a gl2 to record onto the already included sd card slot, and not tape. but i dont know anyone handy enough with camera guts.

shitcunt

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2017, 05:50:54 AM »
I cant remember the exact explanation, but people on skateperception (rip) always said that the footage coming out of vx's looked significantly better on older tv's and monitors because of how the pixels refreshed or some shit. Plus a vhs or dvd likely has a different and possibly more optimized form of compression. Youtube hates SD videos and upscales them to 720p on upload, so the smart filmers export in 720p to save some quality.

All this being said, there are a bunch of affordable paths to shooting 4:3 aspect ratio stuff in HD as far as fisheyes go, but not that many filmers choose those routes.
What are those routes? I'm trying to keep it 4:3 and not have to deal with tapes.


There was just a thread about this recently. You can buy a dslr and you can make it film in 4:3 and there are a few good fisheyes that make it look like a vx, i can't exactly remember. But its pretty common trend now its pretty cool imo.

Yeah my dslr shoots in 4:3 SD, but I can't work out how to get a proper vignette as it's not like I can just add spacer rings to my 8mm fisheye like on a camcorder. I assume I need to buy a full frame body and put a crop sensor fisheye on it or something.

Yea as far as I know you ain't adding a spacer on that haha. But I know people add the MK1 vig overlay while editing and that looks great. If you need it let me know.

Yeah I've done that before, grabbed the vig from that 4:3 thread in the photos/video board. Cheers if that was yours. I have mixed feelings about it though, it just feels a little non-genuine to me. I think if I got a fisheye that distorts it right and mixed the colors to look like a VX it would be okay though. As it is it kinda feels like using one of those instageam film filters on a digital picture.

shitcunt

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2017, 05:52:28 AM »
i would love if someone could convert a gl2 to record onto the already included sd card slot, and not tape. but i dont know anyone handy enough with camera guts.
I kinda doubt it's feasible, But it would be sick. While we're here what do you recommend for capture/ export settings with the GL2?

pointandclick

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2017, 07:21:01 AM »
i would love if someone could convert a gl2 to record onto the already included sd card slot, and not tape. but i dont know anyone handy enough with camera guts.
I kinda doubt it's feasible, But it would be sick. While we're here what do you recommend for capture/ export settings with the GL2?
i honestly havent used my gl2 in a few years, i would have to plug it in and see whats available with my current version of final cut.

Parker

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2017, 11:54:06 AM »
I cant remember the exact explanation, but people on skateperception (rip) always said that the footage coming out of vx's looked significantly better on older tv's and monitors because of how the pixels refreshed or some shit. Plus a vhs or dvd likely has a different and possibly more optimized form of compression. Youtube hates SD videos and upscales them to 720p on upload, so the smart filmers export in 720p to save some quality.

All this being said, there are a bunch of affordable paths to shooting 4:3 aspect ratio stuff in HD as far as fisheyes go, but not that many filmers choose those routes.
What are those routes? I'm trying to keep it 4:3 and not have to deal with tapes.


There was just a thread about this recently. You can buy a dslr and you can make it film in 4:3 and there are a few good fisheyes that make it look like a vx, i can't exactly remember. But its pretty common trend now its pretty cool imo.

Yeah my dslr shoots in 4:3 SD, but I can't work out how to get a proper vignette as it's not like I can just add spacer rings to my 8mm fisheye like on a camcorder. I assume I need to buy a full frame body and put a crop sensor fisheye on it or something.

Yea as far as I know you ain't adding a spacer on that haha. But I know people add the MK1 vig overlay while editing and that looks great. If you need it let me know.

Yeah I've done that before, grabbed the vig from that 4:3 thread in the photos/video board. Cheers if that was yours. I have mixed feelings about it though, it just feels a little non-genuine to me. I think if I got a fisheye that distorts it right and mixed the colors to look like a VX it would be okay though. As it is it kinda feels like using one of those instageam film filters on a digital picture.

Naw I got off SkatePerception way back in the day haha. But yea I mean I would only ever use it if I filmed hd. And that ain't happening haha. But if you got the right set up it looks fantastic, I know the new balance video vx4000 is a really good example. But they filmed with some red epic 4k camera or what ever.

Francis Xavier

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2017, 01:17:36 PM »
When my buddy got a vx he had quality issues and fucked with so many settings it got really bad. Then by chance he ran into ty evans and got some tips and messaged other vx filmers and figured it all out,basically settings and how you import is where its at . I got a lil sony handicam with a baby death lens that I film with,it takes dvdr or a pro duo card. Imports from the dvd look the same as it would from a minidv tape,but from the memory card its all crisp and clean.

ciaran

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2017, 04:02:22 PM »
SD 4x3 in pixels = 720 x 576
HD 16x9 = 1920 x 1080.

If you're watching VX/DV footage full screen on a TV, it stretched to fill the screen.  The detail isn't there in the file format in the first place, which is why the image doesn't look as crisp, more so if you're watching on a decent monitor or 4K tv.

As for Yaye Popson's part, that Chris Thiessen guy flaps his camera about like an epileptic cod stuck on land trying to get back in the sea.  Everything about his filming style is unwatchable and shit.

natenola forever

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Re: 4:3 (A question about the classic 3 chip camera we all know and love)
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2017, 08:34:35 PM »
Vx footage is shot interlaced, old tube Tvs are interlaced TVs , modern monitors are progressive scan and most modern HD is shit progressive. That's why vx footage looks terrible on computers and modern flat screens but great on old Tvs. Also HD footage compresses much better than ever footage, there's a million hacks on how to do modern vx, the last big video I did was shot on a Panasonic hvx with the mk2 death lens and recorded in standard def but progressive scan with a really high bit rate , it looks really great on had TVs and computer monitors, and it's basically a hacked vx that records on p2 cards.