Author Topic: Evidence for God  (Read 51261 times)

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Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #330 on: November 05, 2017, 08:40:53 AM »
https://youtu.be/lJT3Re-F4CY

This Atheist Delusion video is quite effective in showing that rejection of God is not based on fact, but is rather a moral issue. People wanting to reject God (in spite of the evidence) so they can try to be autonomous from moral accountability for their actions. All the while, those who reject God are often miserable inside, depressed, anxious, fearful, addicted, etc., etc. and are in need of the very Savior whom they reject without evidential warrant.

My friend Eddie Roman actually edited The Atheist Delusion project. The full movie can be seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChWiZ3iXWwM

tobey

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #331 on: November 05, 2017, 08:44:57 AM »
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*It's evident there's no God.
[close]

How so? Do we have absolute proof there is no God?
[close]

No but there’s also no proof that god exists. Nobody gives a fuck if you believe in a god or not, people just care that you try to shove your own beliefs on to them
[close]
You're onto someone there.
[close]

Not really. The whole 'don't push your beliefs' is also a belief that is being pushed. It's self refuting. Why are you pushing your beliefs that people should not push their beliefs, etc.?

I don't really care that its self refuting. I would just rather actually discuss the pertinent issues rather than have to filed contradictory rhetoric.

There is a core issue of discussion here, though.

Lets say that pushing Christianity out in the public square should somehow be considered to be wrong.

On what basis would you say that to do so is wrong? What foundation are you relying on to say that it is wrong to do such a thing, and that your opinion should be considered to be right at the exclusion of the other, and so forth?

[Note: I have raised this question several times on this thread and no one has provided a sufficient response]

It's not wrong to do that, just no one cares. They want to live life on their own terms, just how you are living life in god terms. Respect other peoples wishes that not everyone has to believe in god

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #332 on: November 05, 2017, 08:46:06 AM »
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*It's evident there's no God.
[close]

How so? Do we have absolute proof there is no God?

This is a good point. It would be entirely correct to say that no person has complete knowledge of everything. Couldn't God exist out there in the categories that a particular individual at any given time are not in the know about? Isn't it possible for God to exist outside of the scope of a person's understanding of reality at a given time in their life? The logical answer is yes. 

tobey

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #333 on: November 05, 2017, 08:47:07 AM »
If you started this topic just saying "hey can we have a talk whether people believe in god on this fourm"? You wouldn't have shit show like this. Instead you made this topic saying if you aren't a good person (in gods terms) then you are going to hell

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #334 on: November 05, 2017, 08:56:16 AM »
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*It's evident there's no God.
[close]

How so? Do we have absolute proof there is no God?
[close]

No but there’s also no proof that god exists. Nobody gives a fuck if you believe in a god or not, people just care that you try to shove your own beliefs on to them
[close]
You're onto someone there.
[close]

Not really. The whole 'don't push your beliefs' is also a belief that is being pushed. It's self refuting. Why are you pushing your beliefs that people should not push their beliefs, etc.?

I don't really care that its self refuting. I would just rather actually discuss the pertinent issues rather than have to filed contradictory rhetoric.

There is a core issue of discussion here, though.

Lets say that pushing Christianity out in the public square should somehow be considered to be wrong.

On what basis would you say that to do so is wrong? What foundation are you relying on to say that it is wrong to do such a thing, and that your opinion should be considered to be right at the exclusion of the other, and so forth?

[Note: I have raised this question several times on this thread and no one has provided a sufficient response]
[close]

It's not wrong to do that, just no one cares. They want to live life on their own terms, just how you are living life in god terms. Respect other peoples wishes that not everyone has to believe in god

Fair enough. If you review the thread, I have taken painstaking efforts to be respectful. To agree to disagree is not disrespectful.

And, that is the specific case here, I simply disagree with you. People do care about the matters. Hosoi cared when he was in prison on a drug charge. Caballero cared when he felt that Daoism wasn't fulfilling. Jaime Thomas cared when he realized that there must be more to life than winning Back to the City and getting sponsors, mag covers, and interviews.

And I think SLAP, with its preference for free speech, is a pretty good forum for hashing these things out.

Now, if you personally don't care, then I understand that. But, you seem to have at least some interest in the discussion (albeit, from the point of a skeptic).

Let me then just ask a couple of things. Is there one thing that really holds you back from becoming a Christian? And, if so, what is it?

Moreover, if I (or anyone else) were able to give you a reasonable explanation in that regard, would you then be willing to consider becoming a Christian?

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #335 on: November 05, 2017, 08:59:30 AM »
If you started this topic just saying "hey can we have a talk whether people believe in god on this fourm"? You wouldn't have shit show like this. Instead you made this topic saying if you aren't a good person (in gods terms) then you are going to hell

That is the true Gospel. There are consequences for unbelief. So, it would actually be unloving for me to not share that with others if it is something I truly believe to be the case. I have posted this before, but Atheist Penn Jillette perfectly explains how so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6md638smQd8&t=2s

Pigeon

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #336 on: November 05, 2017, 09:06:14 AM »
Quote from: Simon Woodstock
If you have never read the true history of Jesus, you can start with the Gospel of John if you are interested. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1
The Bible isn’t real history, fucktard. The real history of Jesus is: some delusional bum got crucified, and people made a religion out of it hundreds of years later.

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #337 on: November 05, 2017, 09:10:19 AM »
Quote from: Simon Woodstock
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If you have never read the true history of Jesus, you can start with the Gospel of John if you are interested. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1
[close]
The Bible isn’t real history, [expletive] The real history of Jesus is: some delusional bum got crucified, and people made a religion out of it hundreds of years later.

This is just factually incorrect. Do the research.

tobey

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #338 on: November 05, 2017, 09:15:52 AM »
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*It's evident there's no God.
[close]

How so? Do we have absolute proof there is no God?
[close]

No but there’s also no proof that god exists. Nobody gives a fuck if you believe in a god or not, people just care that you try to shove your own beliefs on to them
[close]
You're onto someone there.
[close]

Not really. The whole 'don't push your beliefs' is also a belief that is being pushed. It's self refuting. Why are you pushing your beliefs that people should not push their beliefs, etc.?

I don't really care that its self refuting. I would just rather actually discuss the pertinent issues rather than have to filed contradictory rhetoric.

There is a core issue of discussion here, though.

Lets say that pushing Christianity out in the public square should somehow be considered to be wrong.

On what basis would you say that to do so is wrong? What foundation are you relying on to say that it is wrong to do such a thing, and that your opinion should be considered to be right at the exclusion of the other, and so forth?

[Note: I have raised this question several times on this thread and no one has provided a sufficient response]
[close]

It's not wrong to do that, just no one cares. They want to live life on their own terms, just how you are living life in god terms. Respect other peoples wishes that not everyone has to believe in god
[close]

Fair enough. If you review the thread, I have taken painstaking efforts to be respectful. To agree to disagree is not disrespectful.

And, that is the specific case here, I simply disagree with you. People do care about the matters. Hosoi cared when he was in prison on a drug charge. Caballero cared when he felt that Daoism wasn't fulfilling. Jaime Thomas cared when he realized that there must be more to life than winning Back to the City and getting sponsors, mag covers, and interviews.

And I think SLAP, with its preference for free speech, is a pretty good forum for hashing these things out.

Now, if you personally don't care, then I understand that. But, you seem to have at least some interest in the discussion (albeit, from the point of a skeptic).

Let me then just ask a couple of things. Is there one thing that really holds you back from becoming a Christian? And, if so, what is it?

Moreover, if I (or anyone else) were able to give you a reasonable explanation in that regard, would you then be willing to consider becoming a Christian?

No because I have the best religion already. I'm Irish catholic so I could kill the pope and as long as I went to confession before I die I still go to heaven

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #339 on: November 05, 2017, 09:19:53 AM »
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*It's evident there's no God.
[close]

aight. whatevs. Let me know if you come up with a specific issue that troubles you. Have a good week, man.

How so? Do we have absolute proof there is no God?
[close]

No but there’s also no proof that god exists. Nobody gives a fuck if you believe in a god or not, people just care that you try to shove your own beliefs on to them
[close]
You're onto someone there.
[close]

Not really. The whole 'don't push your beliefs' is also a belief that is being pushed. It's self refuting. Why are you pushing your beliefs that people should not push their beliefs, etc.?

I don't really care that its self refuting. I would just rather actually discuss the pertinent issues rather than have to filed contradictory rhetoric.

There is a core issue of discussion here, though.

Lets say that pushing Christianity out in the public square should somehow be considered to be wrong.

On what basis would you say that to do so is wrong? What foundation are you relying on to say that it is wrong to do such a thing, and that your opinion should be considered to be right at the exclusion of the other, and so forth?

[Note: I have raised this question several times on this thread and no one has provided a sufficient response]
[close]

It's not wrong to do that, just no one cares. They want to live life on their own terms, just how you are living life in god terms. Respect other peoples wishes that not everyone has to believe in god
[close]

Fair enough. If you review the thread, I have taken painstaking efforts to be respectful. To agree to disagree is not disrespectful.

And, that is the specific case here, I simply disagree with you. People do care about the matters. Hosoi cared when he was in prison on a drug charge. Caballero cared when he felt that Daoism wasn't fulfilling. Jaime Thomas cared when he realized that there must be more to life than winning Back to the City and getting sponsors, mag covers, and interviews.

And I think SLAP, with its preference for free speech, is a pretty good forum for hashing these things out.

Now, if you personally don't care, then I understand that. But, you seem to have at least some interest in the discussion (albeit, from the point of a skeptic).

Let me then just ask a couple of things. Is there one thing that really holds you back from becoming a Christian? And, if so, what is it?

Moreover, if I (or anyone else) were able to give you a reasonable explanation in that regard, would you then be willing to consider becoming a Christian?
[close]

No because I have the best religion already. I'm Irish catholic so I could kill the pope and as long as I went to confession before I die I still go to heaven

tobey

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #340 on: November 05, 2017, 09:44:35 AM »
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If you started this topic just saying "hey can we have a talk whether people believe in god on this fourm"? You wouldn't have shit show like this. Instead you made this topic saying if you aren't a good person (in gods terms) then you are going to hell
[close]

That is the true Gospel. There are consequences for unbelief. So, it would actually be unloving for me to not share that with others if it is something I truly believe to be the case. I have posted this before, but Atheist Penn Jillette perfectly explains how so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6md638smQd8&t=2s

Thats all cool, you have your beliefs and other people have their own beliefs. I can tell you right now though that you aren't a good person. You don't respect other peoples beliefs and you think your religion is the center of the universe. If you actually went to CCD school or were any part of a religion school growing up instead of being a burn out most of your life and just recently getting into god. You would know that being Christian doesn't make you superior than others, and that goes the same as being Jewish doesn't make you superior than others. How do you think ISIS is terrifying the world at this moment? Your ideas isn't that far fetched from them.

It's very simple and I'm pretty sure this is in every religion......... Treat others how you would want to be treated. People don't need a religion to do that     

Betaphenylethylalamine

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #341 on: November 05, 2017, 12:34:35 PM »
I should have never opened this thread...

Treat others how you want to be treated is pretty fuckin simple and definitely a great motto to live by.

I myself, I believe in nature. Nothing else, and nature certainly isn't my God, but IMO it's why I'm here. Simple as that.

Gentleman ninja warlock

ImportantGuy

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #342 on: November 05, 2017, 01:55:50 PM »
I should have never opened this thread...

Treat others how you want to be treated is pretty fuckin simple and definitely a great motto to live by.

I myself, I believe in nature. Nothing else, and nature certainly isn't my God, but IMO it's why I'm here. Simple as that.

So strange, I always say Nature is the only thing I believe in. And it most certainly isn'y my God as I'm a part of it.
Also, +1 for the Golden Rule.

givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #343 on: November 05, 2017, 02:36:22 PM »
   There's no evidence of god.    Freedom of religion is as paramount as being free from religious tyranny.    I pray for my family and friends every night.   Props to you whether you're a believer or not, life is some shit to navigate.
"I just care about the river, I dont care about your back"

fulltechnicalskizzy

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #344 on: November 05, 2017, 03:00:04 PM »
jeus was black

GAY

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #345 on: November 06, 2017, 10:47:26 AM »
Freedom from Religious Tranny

Betaphenylethylalamine

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #346 on: November 06, 2017, 11:19:01 AM »
Freedom from Religious Tranny

Is that what God created guns for? Shoot all the religious trannies
Gentleman ninja warlock

phalanx

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #347 on: November 09, 2017, 05:21:20 PM »
A few things that only humans can do that make me believe there must be a God or intelligent designer,

We can sing beautiful complicated songs.
We can dance a thousand different ways and make new ones up everyday!
We can write computer programs or operate on the human heart.
We can wage a war or declare peace.
We can build airplanes that go faster than sound.
We can choose to forgive those who have wronged us.

....and we can skate! with no limits to our imagination.

P.s. I don't want to hear about a monkey that can identify 800 words (taught by a human) or a parrot that can say #%$@&! (because of a human)

      When a monkey can write a symphony or play Eruption on the guitar, or a parrot have a philosophical discussion I might listen.

Just some thoughts

tobey

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #348 on: November 09, 2017, 05:40:28 PM »
A few things that only humans can do that make me believe there must be a God or intelligent designer,

We can sing beautiful complicated songs.
We can dance a thousand different ways and make new ones up everyday!
We can write computer programs or operate on the human heart.
We can wage a war or declare peace.
We can build airplanes that go faster than sound.
We can choose to forgive those who have wronged us.

....and we can skate! with no limits to our imagination.

P.s. I don't want to hear about a monkey that can identify 800 words (taught by a human) or a parrot that can say #%$@&! (because of a human)

      When a monkey can write a symphony or play Eruption on the guitar, or a parrot have a philosophical discussion I might listen.

Just some thoughts


GAY

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #349 on: November 09, 2017, 05:42:12 PM »
A few things that only humans can do that make me believe there must be a God or intelligent designer,

We can sing beautiful complicated songs.
We can dance a thousand different ways and make new ones up everyday!
We can write computer programs or operate on the human heart.
We can wage a war or declare peace.
We can build airplanes that go faster than sound.
We can choose to forgive those who have wronged us.

....and we can skate! with no limits to our imagination.

P.s. I don't want to hear about a monkey that can identify 800 words (taught by a human) or a parrot that can say #%$@&! (because of a human)

      When a monkey can write a symphony or play Eruption on the guitar, or a parrot have a philosophical discussion I might listen.

Just some thoughts

We can also pick up a gun and mow down a church full of people praying to their God.

The evidence you've put forth seems to way that man is, himself, God, the creator of all things.

Look, in order for faith to be of any value whatsoever, the belief behind it must be based on absolutely zero proof. Any "evidence" that God exists would rob it entirely of its power. I'm writing that as somebody who prays every morning for help to stay sober and be of service to my fellow man. But I don't "know" that there's anything there hearing my prayer. If I did then faith would have no power. It's in the believing in something there's no evidence for that I draw my strength.

ChuckRamone

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #350 on: November 09, 2017, 06:08:12 PM »
Expand Quote
A few things that only humans can do that make me believe there must be a God or intelligent designer,

We can sing beautiful complicated songs.
We can dance a thousand different ways and make new ones up everyday!
We can write computer programs or operate on the human heart.
We can wage a war or declare peace.
We can build airplanes that go faster than sound.
We can choose to forgive those who have wronged us.

....and we can skate! with no limits to our imagination.

P.s. I don't want to hear about a monkey that can identify 800 words (taught by a human) or a parrot that can say #%$@&! (because of a human)

      When a monkey can write a symphony or play Eruption on the guitar, or a parrot have a philosophical discussion I might listen.

Just some thoughts
[close]



billyerlife

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #351 on: November 09, 2017, 06:20:07 PM »
Simon, what are your views on gay marriage, social services, capitalism, and Islam? I'm just curious as to the degree to which you actually follow the advice of the biblical character Joshua the Anointed.   

oyolar

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #352 on: November 09, 2017, 07:47:51 PM »
Hey Simon - have you ever heard of secular humanism?  That's an entire branch of moral structures not based on religion so please stop using that as an argument for God.  Instead, please explain Psalm 137:7-9, Deuteronomy 13 & 17, Numbers 31, Exodus 22:17, Leviticus 20,  Chronicles 15:12-13, and Romans 1:24-32 and why those are acceptable deaths?  Is it because God said they are?

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/ethics-without-gods/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_morality#Morality_does_not_rely_on_religion

givecigstosurfgroms

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #353 on: November 09, 2017, 09:58:15 PM »
  I wonder if this is the real simon woodstock.  Hey I remember you're 1st interview?   you were skating a curb or flatbar doing a combo wearing a denim vest and you skated for dogtown?  Lets get some stories on the go here. JJ rodgers?  did brian fernandad skate for dog town ?  You grinded that out house roof before jeremy klien grinded those fake rooves.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 10:04:10 PM by givecigstosurfgroms »
"I just care about the river, I dont care about your back"

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #354 on: November 11, 2017, 07:00:16 AM »
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If you started this topic just saying "hey can we have a talk whether people believe in god on this fourm"? You wouldn't have shit show like this. Instead you made this topic saying if you aren't a good person (in gods terms) then you are going to hell
[close]

That is the true Gospel. There are consequences for unbelief. So, it would actually be unloving for me to not share that with others if it is something I truly believe to be the case. I have posted this before, but Atheist Penn Jillette perfectly explains how so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6md638smQd8&t=2s
[close]

Thats all cool, you have your beliefs and other people have their own beliefs. I can tell you right now though that you aren't a good person. You don't respect other peoples beliefs and you think your religion is the center of the universe. If you actually went to CCD school or were any part of a religion school growing up instead of being a burn out most of your life and just recently getting into god. You would know that being Christian doesn't make you superior than others, and that goes the same as being Jewish doesn't make you superior than others. How do you think ISIS is terrifying the world at this moment? Your ideas isn't that far fetched from them.

It's very simple and I'm pretty sure this is in every religion......... Treat others how you would want to be treated. People don't need a religion to do that   

Respectfully, I think you are just misunderstanding the approach taken here. And, mischaracterizing my views. Nevertheless, I am still open to further dialogue with you on the matters, but I would need something presented to me that is more philosophical and based on logic to be able to accurately and better respond to, rather than emotional rants and complaints. But, if the basic truth put forth from your post is that we should be loving and respectful towards others and their beliefs, this discussion would be a good opportunity for you do do that (i.e., quell the belittling rhetoric moving forward).  And, you might want to hold off from raising your beliefs up as being superior to mine, in order to avoid further contradiction and self-refutation in your statements.

What this boils down to is the uniqueness of Jesus. If someone, through rational and evidential argumentation can show that Jesus Christ is not, in fact, God in human from and thus unique in contrast to all other profits, I would be willing to look at the arguments presented.

These two videos support the Uniqueness of Christ argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNwUZ3LySgQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZaZRE5Cr_4

If you or anyone else have respectful counter arguments, I will look at them.

tobey

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #355 on: November 11, 2017, 07:05:25 AM »
I respect your beliefs, I don't respect you for telling people on SLAP that they are going to hell

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #356 on: November 11, 2017, 07:16:19 AM »
Hey Simon - have you ever heard of secular humanism?  That's an entire branch of moral structures not based on religion so please stop using that as an argument for God.  Instead, please explain Psalm 137:7-9, Deuteronomy 13 & 17, Numbers 31, Exodus 22:17, Leviticus 20,  Chronicles 15:12-13, and Romans 1:24-32 and why those are acceptable deaths?  Is it because God said they are?

https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/ethics-without-gods/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_morality#Morality_does_not_rely_on_religion

I am not saying that secular humanists don't have moral systems and/or cannot be moral. What I am saying is that there is no true philosophical foundation for the secular humanists' moral claims. If they are all relative to the individual, or society, etc, then they are all just opinions and thus cannot be consistently applied globally (or supported meta-ethically). Rather, what we see is actually evidence for God; the Golden Rule has been referenced several times on this thread. How or why is the Golden Rule so universally accepted? Because moral standards are universal (i.e., not relativistic to the individual) and thus are set in place by a Standard (God) that exists outside of time and space as arbiter. So, I won't stop using this argument because skeptics actually have to rely on a universal moral standard outside of themselves to say there is no universal moral standard. All arguments against the Moral Argument for God are self-refuting.

What is more, if you believe that the Bible passages that you referenced are morally wrong, by what standard are you saying that they are morally wrong? By your own standard or opinion? Or are you referencing a standard that exists outside of yourself that should apply to other people as well? The latter has to be the case, and, again, this self refuting on behalf of the secular humanist approach.

Further, if I were to take each of the Bible passages you referenced and give you clear philosophical/theological explanations for each of them, would you then consider becoming a Christian in light of the facts presented?

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #357 on: November 11, 2017, 07:23:08 AM »
  I wonder if this is the real simon woodstock.  Hey I remember you're 1st interview?   you were skating a curb or flatbar doing a combo wearing a denim vest and you skated for dogtown?  Lets get some stories on the go here. JJ rodgers?  did brian fernandad skate for dog town ?  You grinded that out house roof before jeremy klien grinded those fake rooves.

Thanks man: Yeah, the good old days. I got boards for a minute from Dogtowm through Stacy Gibo but wound up as AM on Black Label. I lived with JJ Rogers for a while in downtown SJ. I would come home and say "Hey JJ, what are you up to?" and I would see a dead squirrel on the porch in front of him and he would respond "Trying to learn how to taxidermy this dead squirrel" etc.. etc.. etc.. I remember him shredding that San Jose mini ramp pro contest in the 90s. Omar Hassan won it (I think) but JJ placed top 10.

I think Ferdinand rode for Circle A back in its heyday (I could be wrong on that). Brian is a sick skater, he would trow down at every spot.

The outhouse grind went down at a Tracker party in SD. Felt good to do it.

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #358 on: November 11, 2017, 07:33:40 AM »
I respect your beliefs, I don't respect you for telling people on SLAP that they are going to hell

Fair enough, man. Its just something to consider. You (obviously) don't have to answer to me. The point is that if God exists and will judge the world according to His holy and righteous standard, those who will inevitably have to stand before God in judgement will have to answer to Him according to their own doings. And, if anyone is not perfectly righteous and holy on their own, there would logically, then, be consequences. Moreover, good works cannot erase bad works that have been done. That is what faith in Christ is for.

This is how I came to Christ 17 + years ago. I was convicted of the total multitude of my sins and knew I needed a Savior for help. Here is basically how that went down if you are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFCWx8eA28Q&t=2s

I also saw Christian Hosoi a few weeks ago. He looks and sounds like he is doing really well, which is a testimony of God's providence as dude was a complete mess in the late 90s. (I was living in Huntington Beach during his demise and everyone was grieved that he had hit rock bottom).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYAv4Q9dg70

Again, just respectfully offering all this up for consideration. Peace.

Simon Woodstock

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Re: Evidence for God
« Reply #359 on: November 11, 2017, 07:38:11 AM »
https://youtu.be/lJT3Re-F4CY

This is another good/intense movie about philosophical/moral Worldviews by the same media company. Skaters can do a 180 too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y2KsU_dhwI