Bam got a DUI

[givecigstosurfgroms]

    AA is weak af but I also disagree with the 'underlying issues' thing too.  That's just more bs.

[tobey]

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"Although AA has been criticized by some sources for having a low success rate, the rate isn’t 5 percent like it’s estimated by some to be. Dr. Drew Pinsky figured the success rate is slightly higher, between 8 percent and 12 percent. The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) states about 10 percent of individuals who join a 12-Step program recover. However, The New York Times suggests Alcoholics Anonymous has a much higher success rating of approximately 75 percent. Alcoholics Anonymous’ Big Book touts about a 50-percent success rate, stating that another 25 percent who relapse come back and only 25 percent don’t remain sober. The organization suggests these individuals don’t use AA effectively."


https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa/

I found that source. Not saying you're wrong or I'm right, just saying AA works with everyone differently

You don't need religion for AA, you just have to admit you aren't the center of the universe

Saying addiction isn't a disease though is the equivalent of saying All lives matter. Especially with you saying you only went there for weed

[close]

I agree that it works for everyone differently. Those success ratings again just prove that AA touts false statistics.

Also the disease theory is nothing but that a "theory".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism

One study found that only 25 percent of physicians believed that alcoholism is a disease. The majority believed alcoholism to be a social or psychological problem instead of a disease.[57]

A survey of physicians at an annual conference of the International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous reported that 80 percent believe that alcoholism is merely bad behavior instead of a disease.[58]

Wow go figure that doctors with ties to AA believe in it so much more. Follow the money!

Guessing you believe obesity is a disease too when for some reason it's so much more prevalent in america.

Also me going for weed was a haha at the system but I've abused drugs and learned how to not by choice so your devaluing of the situation is just plain gross. All lives matter is a joke and not comparable by any means but good try to group me in and generalize someone! Makes ya sound like you'd be with that movement!

You quoted wiki so thats not a reliable source. Also it sounds just as stupid

[tobey]

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.

Thats the definition of disease. Disease isn't just a cut and try thing

[iKobrakai]

Look, it does not matter.

The definition of "illness/disorder" is not relevant. Neither of us is a medical doctor och researcher. What the fuck do we know about delicate matters of DSM-V?

The AA was always meant to be a self help organization. They tried with rehabs and failed, hence they never do that again.

Read the litterature, it clearly states that the biggest problem is the behaviour and thought process of the addict. Once you change that with the help of a structured program and higher power to some extent, you'll be fine. Tons of people are ateists in AA and do not think of alcoholism as a disease. They even have half the books with many personal stories of people who don't believe in any God. Sounds close to CBT to me.

My only problem is when the state forces people to go to a self help organization, it defines the purpose. That is only because AA is free, of course and Americans hate to pay taxes to finance proper treatment.

Also, people always frown upon "once an addict, always an addict" yet seldom have any examples of people who were fiends and then all of a sudden can control their intake. Look around the bad parts of your own and see for yourself the opposite.

[shark tits]

i just think you don't get sick and tired of cancer or diabetes. drinking is a bad habit that some poeple quit and some are lifers. so basically it's skating. i guess the question now, is drinking a sport or an art?

[iKobrakai]

    AA is weak af but I also disagree with the 'underlying issues' thing too.  That's just more bs.

So, what do you agree with?

[mattdookie]

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"Although AA has been criticized by some sources for having a low success rate, the rate isn’t 5 percent like it’s estimated by some to be. Dr. Drew Pinsky figured the success rate is slightly higher, between 8 percent and 12 percent. The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) states about 10 percent of individuals who join a 12-Step program recover. However, The New York Times suggests Alcoholics Anonymous has a much higher success rating of approximately 75 percent. Alcoholics Anonymous’ Big Book touts about a 50-percent success rate, stating that another 25 percent who relapse come back and only 25 percent don’t remain sober. The organization suggests these individuals don’t use AA effectively."


https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa/

I found that source. Not saying you're wrong or I'm right, just saying AA works with everyone differently

You don't need religion for AA, you just have to admit you aren't the center of the universe

Saying addiction isn't a disease though is the equivalent of saying All lives matter. Especially with you saying you only went there for weed

[close]

I agree that it works for everyone differently. Those success ratings again just prove that AA touts false statistics.

Also the disease theory is nothing but that a "theory".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism

One study found that only 25 percent of physicians believed that alcoholism is a disease. The majority believed alcoholism to be a social or psychological problem instead of a disease.[57]

A survey of physicians at an annual conference of the International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous reported that 80 percent believe that alcoholism is merely bad behavior instead of a disease.[58]

Wow go figure that doctors with ties to AA believe in it so much more. Follow the money!

Guessing you believe obesity is a disease too when for some reason it's so much more prevalent in america.

Also me going for weed was a haha at the system but I've abused drugs and learned how to not by choice so your devaluing of the situation is just plain gross. All lives matter is a joke and not comparable by any means but good try to group me in and generalize someone! Makes ya sound like you'd be with that movement!

[close]

You quoted wiki so thats not a reliable source. Also it sounds just as stupid

What we got here is a teacher from the 1990s guys. Wiki references sources and a simple google search can guide you to them as well.

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.

Thats the definition of disease. Disease isn't just a cut and try thing

That's a broad definition and like many things is debatable. Go argue with the 75% of physicians that would disagree with you. It's a theory not fact. Should I define theory since you pulled out the dictionary lol.

A theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking.

There ya go.

[tobey]

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"Although AA has been criticized by some sources for having a low success rate, the rate isn’t 5 percent like it’s estimated by some to be. Dr. Drew Pinsky figured the success rate is slightly higher, between 8 percent and 12 percent. The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) states about 10 percent of individuals who join a 12-Step program recover. However, The New York Times suggests Alcoholics Anonymous has a much higher success rating of approximately 75 percent. Alcoholics Anonymous’ Big Book touts about a 50-percent success rate, stating that another 25 percent who relapse come back and only 25 percent don’t remain sober. The organization suggests these individuals don’t use AA effectively."


https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa/

I found that source. Not saying you're wrong or I'm right, just saying AA works with everyone differently

You don't need religion for AA, you just have to admit you aren't the center of the universe

Saying addiction isn't a disease though is the equivalent of saying All lives matter. Especially with you saying you only went there for weed

[close]

I agree that it works for everyone differently. Those success ratings again just prove that AA touts false statistics.

Also the disease theory is nothing but that a "theory".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism

One study found that only 25 percent of physicians believed that alcoholism is a disease. The majority believed alcoholism to be a social or psychological problem instead of a disease.[57]

A survey of physicians at an annual conference of the International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous reported that 80 percent believe that alcoholism is merely bad behavior instead of a disease.[58]

Wow go figure that doctors with ties to AA believe in it so much more. Follow the money!

Guessing you believe obesity is a disease too when for some reason it's so much more prevalent in america.

Also me going for weed was a haha at the system but I've abused drugs and learned how to not by choice so your devaluing of the situation is just plain gross. All lives matter is a joke and not comparable by any means but good try to group me in and generalize someone! Makes ya sound like you'd be with that movement!

[close]

You quoted wiki so thats not a reliable source. Also it sounds just as stupid

[close]

What we got here is a teacher from the 1990s guys. Wiki references sources and a simple google search can guide you to them as well.

Expand Quote

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.

Thats the definition of disease. Disease isn't just a cut and try thing

[close]

That's a broad definition and like many things is debatable. Go argue with the 75% of physicians that would disagree with you. It's a theory not fact. Should I define theory since you pulled out the dictionary lol.

A theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking.

There ya go.

I said was that it wasn't so cut and dry. Don't know why you would define theory

[mattdookie]

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"Although AA has been criticized by some sources for having a low success rate, the rate isn’t 5 percent like it’s estimated by some to be. Dr. Drew Pinsky figured the success rate is slightly higher, between 8 percent and 12 percent. The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) states about 10 percent of individuals who join a 12-Step program recover. However, The New York Times suggests Alcoholics Anonymous has a much higher success rating of approximately 75 percent. Alcoholics Anonymous’ Big Book touts about a 50-percent success rate, stating that another 25 percent who relapse come back and only 25 percent don’t remain sober. The organization suggests these individuals don’t use AA effectively."


https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/12-step/whats-the-success-rate-of-aa/

I found that source. Not saying you're wrong or I'm right, just saying AA works with everyone differently

You don't need religion for AA, you just have to admit you aren't the center of the universe

Saying addiction isn't a disease though is the equivalent of saying All lives matter. Especially with you saying you only went there for weed

[close]

I agree that it works for everyone differently. Those success ratings again just prove that AA touts false statistics.

Also the disease theory is nothing but that a "theory".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_theory_of_alcoholism

One study found that only 25 percent of physicians believed that alcoholism is a disease. The majority believed alcoholism to be a social or psychological problem instead of a disease.[57]

A survey of physicians at an annual conference of the International Doctors in Alcoholics Anonymous reported that 80 percent believe that alcoholism is merely bad behavior instead of a disease.[58]

Wow go figure that doctors with ties to AA believe in it so much more. Follow the money!

Guessing you believe obesity is a disease too when for some reason it's so much more prevalent in america.

Also me going for weed was a haha at the system but I've abused drugs and learned how to not by choice so your devaluing of the situation is just plain gross. All lives matter is a joke and not comparable by any means but good try to group me in and generalize someone! Makes ya sound like you'd be with that movement!

[close]

You quoted wiki so thats not a reliable source. Also it sounds just as stupid

[close]

What we got here is a teacher from the 1990s guys. Wiki references sources and a simple google search can guide you to them as well.

Expand Quote

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.

Thats the definition of disease. Disease isn't just a cut and try thing

[close]

That's a broad definition and like many things is debatable. Go argue with the 75% of physicians that would disagree with you. It's a theory not fact. Should I define theory since you pulled out the dictionary lol.

A theory is a contemplative and rational type of abstract or generalizing thinking, or the results of such thinking.

There ya go.

[close]

I said was that it wasn't so cut and dry. Don't know why you would define theory

Maybe because you said "Saying addiction isn't a disease though is the equivalent of saying All lives matter." lol. Even though the theory isn't backed by most physicians you want to act like thinking otherwise is equivalent of that ignorance.

Here's some more great info for ya tho:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_model_of_addiction

"Alcoholics Anonymous contributed to the growth in popularity of the disease model of addiction through their publication of The Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous) and press campaigns.[5]"

Who'da thunk AA woulda done did that!

"Critics of the disease model, particularly those who subscribe to the life-process model of addiction argue that labeling people as addicts keeps them from developing self-control and stigmatizes them."

Hmm no way. I might have to reference other countries info like Portugal who legalized drug use and has such a low addiction rate in comparison to america it makes the theory seem even more laughable.

[tobey]

If you are trying to have an argument using facts why would you use wiki?

[mattdookie]

If you are trying to have an argument using facts why would you use wiki?

Hahahaha jeeze here ya go dude I know you're lazy and don't realize the reliability of wiki has improved drastically from the 90s but here's the references for ya.

http://www.journalofsubstanceabusetreatment.com/article/S0740-5472(10)00200-X/fulltext

https://web.archive.org/web/20110927122219/http://www.harmreduction.org/downloads/Harm%20Reduction%20Psychotherapy%3A%20Extending%20the%20Reach%20of%20Traditional%20Substance%20Use%20Treatment.pdf

http://www.journalofsubstanceabusetreatment.com/article/S0740-5472(03)00085-0/fulltext

Lol. Good debate. Coming from the dude who took a definition that's on wikipedia.

[tobey]

I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

[mattdookie]

I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

No one just trying to have an open debate you couldn't have one and tried to say that I was ignorant for believing something most physicians believe and that is equivalent of being an All Lives Matter goon. So who hurt you that it caused you to be so closed minded and generalize others based off their opinions??? Exactly boi!

[iKobrakai]

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I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

[close]

No one just trying to have an open debate you couldn't have one and tried to say that I was ignorant for believing something most physicians believe and that is equivalent of being an All Lives Matter goon. So who hurt you that it caused you to be so closed minded and generalize others based off their opinions??? Exactly boi!

""Critics of the disease model, particularly those who subscribe to the life-process model of addiction argue that labeling people as addicts keeps them from developing self-control and stigmatizes them."

I don't understand why calling things/people for what they are is so out of date now.

[mattdookie]

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I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

[close]

No one just trying to have an open debate you couldn't have one and tried to say that I was ignorant for believing something most physicians believe and that is equivalent of being an All Lives Matter goon. So who hurt you that it caused you to be so closed minded and generalize others based off their opinions??? Exactly boi!

[close]

""Critics of the disease model, particularly those who subscribe to the life-process model of addiction argue that labeling people as addicts keeps them from developing self-control and stigmatizes them."

I don't understand why calling things/people for what they are is so out of date now.

I think it stops certain people from feeling like they can change just depending on who they are. It's like people that get called fat everyday end up just accepting that they're overweight and figure they can't do anything about it and it's just who they are. This is all dependent on the person of course.

[tobey]

Expand Quote

I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

[close]

No one just trying to have an open debate you couldn't have one and tried to say that I was ignorant for believing something most physicians believe and that is equivalent of being an All Lives Matter goon. So who hurt you that it caused you to be so closed minded and generalize others based off their opinions??? Exactly boi!

I said you were ignorant because how people are all lives matter never had any racial biases towards them but they seem to know so much about the topic. You seem pretty set in stone that addiction isn't a disease who exactly are you? You a doctor? You train in this type of field at all?

Me, do i personally believe that addiction is a disease? No or maybe yes. All i said it wasn't so simple.

All I know is that I can't drink like a normal person. Does that mean I have a disease? Again I don't know but I'm not a fucking loser who would tell other people who are trying to recover saying "just man up, you can control it".

[perverted super otaku!]

i wouldn't get upset about it, it's kind of like religion where it presents you with a simplified interpretation of reality that can make living certain ways easier, some use it as a tool and obviously like religion as well some people will take it on and to all sorts of levels

[iKobrakai]

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I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

[close]

No one just trying to have an open debate you couldn't have one and tried to say that I was ignorant for believing something most physicians believe and that is equivalent of being an All Lives Matter goon. So who hurt you that it caused you to be so closed minded and generalize others based off their opinions??? Exactly boi!

[close]

""Critics of the disease model, particularly those who subscribe to the life-process model of addiction argue that labeling people as addicts keeps them from developing self-control and stigmatizes them."

I don't understand why calling things/people for what they are is so out of date now.

[close]

I think it stops certain people from feeling like they can change just depending on who they are. It's like people that get called fat everyday end up just accepting that they're overweight and figure they can't do anything about it and it's just who they are. This is all dependent on the person of course.

Sounds like some SJW shit. And you say AA is garbage.... Not sayin AA works amazing, but for a free self help group, and nothing else, the fuck do you expect?

[mattdookie]

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I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

[close]

No one just trying to have an open debate you couldn't have one and tried to say that I was ignorant for believing something most physicians believe and that is equivalent of being an All Lives Matter goon. So who hurt you that it caused you to be so closed minded and generalize others based off their opinions??? Exactly boi!

[close]

I said you were ignorant because how people are all lives matter never had any racial biases towards them but they seem to know so much about the topic. You seem pretty set in stone that addiction isn't a disease who exactly who are you? You a doctor? You train in this type of field at all?

Me, do i personally believe that addiction is a disease? No or maybe yes. All i said it wasn't so simple.

All I know is that I can't drink like a normal person. Does that mean I have a disease? Again I don't know but I'm not a fucking loser who would tell other people who are trying to recover saying "just man up, you can control it".

Fact is I never said that and even said if AA works for you great! Hahahahah! Me saying AA has statistically been proven to be ineffective doesn't mean I don't believe there are other things that should be tried and everyone should just "man up". You can easily read my past posts on this topic and see that.

Not a doctor but I'm majoring in sociology. And again I've abused substances mostly stims but figured out my own way to handle it which was just research and learning harm reduction techniques something other countries are more for compared to america. Either way you generalized and started the harshness not me. So who hurt you?

Sounds like some SJW shit. And you say AA is garbage.... Not sayin AA works amazing, but for a free self help group, and nothing else, the fuck do you expect?

It's just something that's person to person so it makes sense. It is garbage in relation to it's effectiveness but if it works for few it's still helpful marginally. Also it's only free because it's funded by different sources like my county throws money at every church that has a group. I expect america to try different things but they probably won't because it's founded upon christianity like most things in america. Should there not be other free options? I compared it earlier to the methadone clinics which also statistically fail while in other countries that provide different rehabilitation techniques have outrageously low overdose rates in comparison to america and these are in countries where you can use heroin legally.

[Roisto]

I think what mattdookie is trying to say is that alcoholism isn't the disease but more of a symptom of some deeper mental issue. It's kinda like saying that someone who has untreated diabetes has an urination disease. While excessive urination is a symptom of untreated diabetes, it is not the disease.

I personally don't like lumping mental issues with other diseases. It doesn't mean that they can't be as crippling or hard to deal with. Most times they're actually much harder to deal with. I personally excel at procrastination and avoiding things. I don't think it's a disease though. They are just symptoms of deeper mental issues I have. Stuff that I can work on. Not stuff that should be treated. Personally I like to get to the root of things and try to solve the situation there, but other methods can be just as effective, even if they're not the solution for the exact issue.

Believing in Jesus might help some people get sober. Does that mean that believing in Jesus is a cure for a disease called alcoholism? No, I don't think so.

I haven't looked very deeply into AA, but how have they come up with their program? Is it based on science or is it just some stuff someone came up with that at least seems to work better than nothing?

[tobey]

I think what mattdookie is trying to say is that alcoholism isn't the disease but more of a symptom of some deeper mental issue. It's kinda like saying that someone who has untreated diabetes has an urination disease. While excessive urination is a symptom of untreated diabetes, it is not the disease.

I personally don't like lumping mental issues with other diseases. It doesn't mean that they can't be as crippling or hard to deal with. Most times they're actually much harder to deal with. I personally excel at procrastination and avoiding things. I don't think it's a disease though. They are just symptoms of deeper mental issues I have. Stuff that I can work on. Not stuff that should be treated. Personally I like to get to the root of things and try to solve the situation there, but other methods can be just as effective, even if they're not the solution for the exact issue.

Believing in Jesus might help some people get sober. Does that mean that believing in Jesus is a cure for a disease called alcoholism? No, I don't think so.

I haven't looked very deeply into AA, but how have they come up with their program? Is it based on science or is it just some stuff someone came up with that at least seems to work better than nothing?

Two doctors started the program in the early 1900s

[mattdookie]

I think what mattdookie is trying to say is that alcoholism isn't the disease but more of a symptom of some deeper mental issue. It's kinda like saying that someone who has untreated diabetes has an urination disease. While excessive urination is a symptom of untreated diabetes, it is not the disease.

I personally don't like lumping mental issues with other diseases. It doesn't mean that they can't be as crippling or hard to deal with. Most times they're actually much harder to deal with. I personally excel at procrastination and avoiding things. I don't think it's a disease though. They are just symptoms of deeper mental issues I have. Stuff that I can work on. Not stuff that should be treated. Personally I like to get to the root of things and try to solve the situation there, but other methods can be just as effective, even if they're not the solution for the exact issue.

Believing in Jesus might help some people get sober. Does that mean that believing in Jesus is a cure for a disease called alcoholism? No, I don't think so.

I haven't looked very deeply into AA, but how have they come up with their program? Is it based on science or is it just some stuff someone came up with that at least seems to work better than nothing?

Pretty much my view on things. A lot of "addicts" have mental illnesses and their drugs use is just a result of those illnesses. Some people cut themselves because of mental illnesses but no one is saying self harm is a disease.

AA was criticized even in the 50's for lack of scientific evidence. It was never based off of science. It started from Bill Wilson literally saying he saw a bright light and found religion and god under the care of a doctor.

Two doctors started the program in the early 1900s

Did you get this info from wikipedia in the 90s because it's wrong.

[iKobrakai]

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I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

[close]

No one just trying to have an open debate you couldn't have one and tried to say that I was ignorant for believing something most physicians believe and that is equivalent of being an All Lives Matter goon. So who hurt you that it caused you to be so closed minded and generalize others based off their opinions??? Exactly boi!

[close]

I said you were ignorant because how people are all lives matter never had any racial biases towards them but they seem to know so much about the topic. You seem pretty set in stone that addiction isn't a disease who exactly who are you? You a doctor? You train in this type of field at all?

Me, do i personally believe that addiction is a disease? No or maybe yes. All i said it wasn't so simple.

All I know is that I can't drink like a normal person. Does that mean I have a disease? Again I don't know but I'm not a fucking loser who would tell other people who are trying to recover saying "just man up, you can control it".

[close]

Fact is I never said that and even said if AA works for you great! Hahahahah! Me saying AA has statistically been proven to be ineffective doesn't mean I don't believe there are other things that should be tried and everyone should just "man up". You can easily read my past posts on this topic and see that.

Not a doctor but I'm majoring in sociology. And again I've abused substances mostly stims but figured out my own way to handle it which was just research and learning harm reduction techniques something other countries are more for compared to america. Either way you generalized and started the harshness not me. So who hurt you?

Expand Quote

Sounds like some SJW shit. And you say AA is garbage.... Not sayin AA works amazing, but for a free self help group, and nothing else, the fuck do you expect?

[close]

It's just something that's person to person so it makes sense. It is garbage in relation to it's effectiveness but if it works for few it's still helpful marginally. Also it's only free because it's funded by different sources like my county throws money at every church that has a group. I expect america to try different things but they probably won't because it's founded upon christianity like most things in america. Should there not be other free options? I compared it earlier to the methadone clinics which also statistically fail while in other countries that provide different rehabilitation techniques have outrageously low overdose rates in comparison to america and these are in countries where you can use heroin legally.

Fuck your so called controlled use and fuck your methadone threatment analogy. We are talking about people who want to get fucking clean. Yes, AA blows and does not have the best results but again, the fuck do expect from a circle of broked down addict who are trying to get clean? There is no conspiracy.

You are trying to hard to sound so smart but cannot understand simple logic. The more I read your replies, the more I see that you don't know shit. Kind of like Penn and Tellers AA in Bullshit episode. All three of you are missing the point and fighting a war that does not exist.

Good luck bringing down white privilege together with your enlightnend friends in sociology major.

[mattdookie]

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I really don't know what you are trying to prove at this point. Who in AA hurt you?

[close]

No one just trying to have an open debate you couldn't have one and tried to say that I was ignorant for believing something most physicians believe and that is equivalent of being an All Lives Matter goon. So who hurt you that it caused you to be so closed minded and generalize others based off their opinions??? Exactly boi!

[close]

I said you were ignorant because how people are all lives matter never had any racial biases towards them but they seem to know so much about the topic. You seem pretty set in stone that addiction isn't a disease who exactly who are you? You a doctor? You train in this type of field at all?

Me, do i personally believe that addiction is a disease? No or maybe yes. All i said it wasn't so simple.

All I know is that I can't drink like a normal person. Does that mean I have a disease? Again I don't know but I'm not a fucking loser who would tell other people who are trying to recover saying "just man up, you can control it".

[close]

Fact is I never said that and even said if AA works for you great! Hahahahah! Me saying AA has statistically been proven to be ineffective doesn't mean I don't believe there are other things that should be tried and everyone should just "man up". You can easily read my past posts on this topic and see that.

Not a doctor but I'm majoring in sociology. And again I've abused substances mostly stims but figured out my own way to handle it which was just research and learning harm reduction techniques something other countries are more for compared to america. Either way you generalized and started the harshness not me. So who hurt you?

Expand Quote

Sounds like some SJW shit. And you say AA is garbage.... Not sayin AA works amazing, but for a free self help group, and nothing else, the fuck do you expect?

[close]

It's just something that's person to person so it makes sense. It is garbage in relation to it's effectiveness but if it works for few it's still helpful marginally. Also it's only free because it's funded by different sources like my county throws money at every church that has a group. I expect america to try different things but they probably won't because it's founded upon christianity like most things in america. Should there not be other free options? I compared it earlier to the methadone clinics which also statistically fail while in other countries that provide different rehabilitation techniques have outrageously low overdose rates in comparison to america and these are in countries where you can use heroin legally.

[close]

Fuck your so called controlled use and fuck your methadone threatment analogy. We are talking about people who want to get fucking clean. Yes, AA blows and does not have the best results but again, the fuck do expect from a circle of broked down addict who are trying to get clean? There is no conspiracy.

You are trying to hard to sound so smart but cannot understand simple logic. The more I read your replies, the more I see that you don't know shit. Kind of like Penn and Tellers AA in Bullshit episode. All three of you are missing the point and fighting a war that does not exist.

Good luck bringing down white privilege together with your enlightnend friends in sociology major.

Hahaha I'm white dude. I don't believe the white privilege theory I think each race has different advantages and disadvantages some more than others but it's dependent on your locality. Generalizers. Jeeze. Stop getting so bent out of shape over opinions lol.

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy I'm saying I wish america would provide access to other options. Is that bad? Controlled use is possible to achieve for some people others not and others it's just substance dependent.

What logic are you talking about? You keep asking what do I expect and it's just more available methods lol.

Also I'm in sociology to help people something that you're talking about AA doing that is so good... Wild bro.

[Bread Harrity]

i just think you don't get sick and tired of cancer or diabetes. drinking is a bad habit that some poeple quit and some are lifers. so basically it's skating. i guess the question now, is drinking a sport or an art?

yeah nyjah can pound a 20 rack, but I'd rather watch Gino sip...

[iKobrakai]

Hahaha I'm white dude. I don't believe the white privilege theory I think each race has different advantages and disadvantages some more than others but it's dependent on your locality. Generalizers. Jeeze. Stop getting so bent out of shape over opinions lol.

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy I'm saying I wish america would provide access to other options. Is that bad? Controlled use is possible to achieve for some people others not and others it's just substance dependent.

What logic are you talking about? You keep asking what do I expect and it's just more available methods lol.

Also I'm in sociology to help people something that you're talking about AA doing that is so good... Wild bro.

Not a theory. 

You jump in here with all that massive "knowledge" only to say that you never stated anything. Things are usually said within a context and your arrogance could be seen from your first post.

I seldom kook people, be one of my rare casualities, gender study major boy.

PS. Thank your for helping all of us.

[mattdookie]

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Hahaha I'm white dude. I don't believe the white privilege theory I think each race has different advantages and disadvantages some more than others but it's dependent on your locality. Generalizers. Jeeze. Stop getting so bent out of shape over opinions lol.

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy I'm saying I wish america would provide access to other options. Is that bad? Controlled use is possible to achieve for some people others not and others it's just substance dependent.

What logic are you talking about? You keep asking what do I expect and it's just more available methods lol.

Also I'm in sociology to help people something that you're talking about AA doing that is so good... Wild bro.

[close]

Not a theory. 

You jump in here with all that massive "knowledge" only to say that you never stated anything. Things are usually said within a context and your arrogance could be seen from your first post.

I seldom kook people, be one of my rare casualities, gender study major boy.

PS. Thank your for helping all of us.

It's a concept under different theories it's more part of different theories than it's own.

You're just reading things your own way. Tip toeing over everything I said repeatedly doesn't make your statements look like much.

Lol. Get me bro I'm ready for it go on and be such a bad meanie to me I'm afwaid.

Sociology is so bad. Choosing a career path in hopes to help juvenile deliquents gawd dayum. Fuck em!

[KingKook]

I'm sure being in the company of others trying to achieve the same thing can be super helpful to some. However, I completely disagree that drinking and doing drugs is a "disease" and that you'd need to submit to a Higher Power to be cured.

Fuck a cult. Just like making bread, there are millions of ways to get sober.

Totally agree.

[iKobrakai]

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Hahaha I'm white dude. I don't believe the white privilege theory I think each race has different advantages and disadvantages some more than others but it's dependent on your locality. Generalizers. Jeeze. Stop getting so bent out of shape over opinions lol.

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy I'm saying I wish america would provide access to other options. Is that bad? Controlled use is possible to achieve for some people others not and others it's just substance dependent.

What logic are you talking about? You keep asking what do I expect and it's just more available methods lol.

Also I'm in sociology to help people something that you're talking about AA doing that is so good... Wild bro.

[close]

Not a theory. 

You jump in here with all that massive "knowledge" only to say that you never stated anything. Things are usually said within a context and your arrogance could be seen from your first post.

I seldom kook people, be one of my rare casualities, gender study major boy.

PS. Thank your for helping all of us.

[close]

It's a concept under different theories it's more part of different theories than it's own.

You're just reading things your own way. Tip toeing over everything I said repeatedly doesn't make your statements look like much.

Lol. Get me bro I'm ready for it go on and be such a bad meanie to me I'm afwaid.

Sociology is so bad. Choosing a career path in hopes to help juvenile deliquents gawd dayum. Fuck em!

You mean shit you googled? Nice set of skills, bro.

[mattdookie]

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Hahaha I'm white dude. I don't believe the white privilege theory I think each race has different advantages and disadvantages some more than others but it's dependent on your locality. Generalizers. Jeeze. Stop getting so bent out of shape over opinions lol.

I'm not saying there is a conspiracy I'm saying I wish america would provide access to other options. Is that bad? Controlled use is possible to achieve for some people others not and others it's just substance dependent.

What logic are you talking about? You keep asking what do I expect and it's just more available methods lol.

Also I'm in sociology to help people something that you're talking about AA doing that is so good... Wild bro.

[close]

Not a theory. 

You jump in here with all that massive "knowledge" only to say that you never stated anything. Things are usually said within a context and your arrogance could be seen from your first post.

I seldom kook people, be one of my rare casualities, gender study major boy.

PS. Thank your for helping all of us.

[close]

It's a concept under different theories it's more part of different theories than it's own.

You're just reading things your own way. Tip toeing over everything I said repeatedly doesn't make your statements look like much.

Lol. Get me bro I'm ready for it go on and be such a bad meanie to me I'm afwaid.

Sociology is so bad. Choosing a career path in hopes to help juvenile deliquents gawd dayum. Fuck em!

[close]

You mean shit you googled? Nice set of skills, bro.

Yeah I don't know everything. College helps me learn some shit but when I talk about a subject I like to look into it.  Like my 1st grade teacher said bro knowledge is power tehe. Also none of that disregards your tip toes boi.