Author Topic: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me of  (Read 11959 times)

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skater of the yeah

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the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me of
« on: October 22, 2018, 03:54:07 PM »
One of America's most iconic urban parks is now a slab of uninspiring concrete. The most historic city in America known for preserving its history paid $26 million to demolish a piece of history and build a dull boring slab of concrete that no one likes. Now that the new park has been open for a bit, people who were for renovating it are now expressing their regret. The new park has no sense of community, culture, or character. I went into the park about a month ago and my experience there was nothing close to how it was when the old park was there and I spent probably a total of 3 minutes in the park before bouncing. It's not even a nice place to have a coffee or lunch because there is nothing going on, the only people who go in there are tourists bc they want to get a photo with the LOVE sign.

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« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 08:15:57 PM by skater of the yeah »

redcurb12

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 04:03:24 PM »
r.i.p. :(
Let me preface this post with the fact that I am slightly inebriated, very uneducated and I havent read any papers or done any research at all, or read your post really.

Meekin

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2018, 04:12:22 PM »
Literally so bland. What a shame.
There was an interview with TK, when he was a plumber. He got asked if he gets recognized on the job and his response was "No. Plumbin in disguise." Everyone on SLAP thought he said "put him in the sky"

Hairy Ballsagna

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2018, 04:23:53 PM »
That sucks. What's going on with urban design? It seems like all skate spots/plazas that get torn down are replaced by something that is not only less skateable, but much less 3-dimensional and interesting from a pedestrian perspective.

straight fucking edge

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2018, 04:24:11 PM »
it definitely just looks like something to walk through
i don't want to link to the channel because is promotes athiesm.

Daniel

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2018, 04:25:02 PM »
Those beveled curbs look fun.

Deekay

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 04:25:27 PM »
So weird, it's just a waste of space now almost... It looks like they made it like that on purpose to keep people from "hanging out" since it was all occupied by bums and skateboarders before. So shit.

redcurb12

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2018, 04:28:26 PM »
tailslide that weird banked curb thing
Let me preface this post with the fact that I am slightly inebriated, very uneducated and I havent read any papers or done any research at all, or read your post really.

skater of the yeah

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2018, 04:29:12 PM »
That sucks. What's going on with urban design? It seems like all skate spots/plazas that get torn down are replaced by something that is not only less skateable, but much less 3-dimensional and interesting from a pedestrian perspective.
"Like Dilworth, LOVE Park represents a new, program-driven approach to place-making. Charles Birnbaum, president of the Cultural Landscape Foundation, calls it "splash pad urbanism," after the flat, in-ground fountains that have become their defining feature — yet another form of activation. LOVE Park will have two fountains: a 25-foot-high jet that mimics the old torrent and a cascade of arched streams. (They are not in use yet because more drainage ports need to be installed, Lovell said.)

All that makes LOVE Park feel like a variation on Dilworth, and the other splash pad parks popping up around the country. How sad that something that was once so special could be reduced to something so ordinary." - Inga Saffron of philly.com

skater of the yeah

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2018, 04:31:17 PM »
Those beveled curbs look fun.
they look fun but they actually suck

nosporlactune

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2018, 04:42:43 PM »
Wrote my MA thesis about precisely this over the past year. its under review for publishing now. happy to pass it on to anyone who would like to read it. forewarning its long and academic-y, but hopefully a good read.

GAY

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2018, 04:46:16 PM »
I have a sneaking suspicion that cities don't want us skating in/on public squares, guys.

redcurb12

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2018, 04:47:45 PM »
Wrote my MA thesis about precisely this over the past year. its under review for publishing now. happy to pass it on to anyone who would like to read it. forewarning its long and academic-y, but hopefully a good read.

can we just get the abstract?
Let me preface this post with the fact that I am slightly inebriated, very uneducated and I havent read any papers or done any research at all, or read your post really.

skater of the yeah

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2018, 04:48:16 PM »
Wrote my MA thesis about precisely this over the past year. its under review for publishing now. happy to pass it on to anyone who would like to read it. forewarning its long and academic-y, but hopefully a good read.
Is your thesis about the effects of neoliberal policies on skateboarding in public urban parks?

nosporlactune

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2018, 04:51:16 PM »
Abstract:

This is a case study of Philadelphia’s LOVE Park (officially John F. Kennedy Plaza). This study aims to distinguish two spaces which are often conflated in the literature – LOVE Park as public space and LOVE Park as common space – elaborating upon the ways that these spaces are distinct from, yet also reciprocally shape, one another. The results shed light on the emergence of “anti-common public space,” a concept contributing to the ongoing conversation on the dissolution of democracy in public spaces by adding the ways that collective ownership, spontaneity, and difference are increasingly negated in publicly accessible spaces. This encourages critical thought into the role and potentialities of commoning and common spaces, which has been absent from the sociological literature on publicly accessible spaces. Doing so breaks up the binary between public and private, providing an analytical toolkit for wider-reaching, more nuanced conversations on transformations in the urban landscape.


Note on my methods: employed primarily historical archival work, using the philadephia inquirer, skate media, and planning documents. Also interviewed people associated with the skate scene and planners/gov officials involved in the redesign. Spent a week in Philly too doing participant observation at the new love park.

UselessAsshole

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2018, 05:06:43 PM »
it definitely just looks like something to walk through

LOVE park sidewalk

tkp

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2018, 05:09:02 PM »
Image resize for the anti horizontal scrollers like myself


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GAY

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2018, 05:28:36 PM »
Expand Quote
Wrote my MA thesis about precisely this over the past year. its under review for publishing now. happy to pass it on to anyone who would like to read it. forewarning its long and academic-y, but hopefully a good read.
[close]

can we just get the abstract?

You mean ab-stract
Ori-ginal
You can't get your own and that's
pitiful

TheLurper

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2018, 06:01:15 PM »
Too bad the mayor wouldn't just compromise like LA did with the Court House. DC's offer was amazing and it would have been great to save this piece of history.

Shit, Montreal actually moved Big O to save it.


Quote from: ChuckRamone
I love when people bring up world hunger. It makes everything meaningless.
"That guy is double parked."
"Who cares? There are people starving to death! Besides, how does that affect you? Does it lessen the joy of parking?

happenstance

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2018, 06:19:08 PM »
That sucks. What's going on with urban design? It seems like all skate spots/plazas that get torn down are replaced by something that is not only less skateable, but much less 3-dimensional and interesting from a pedestrian perspective.
The academic in here could probably do a better job describing this... but I'll give it a shot.

Building materials are expensive, construction is expensive. More expensive than it used to be when adjusted for inflation. So, by default, designs will be simpler and boring. This explains the 'what'.

As to the 'why':
- Parks departments, like all government departments need to justify their existence. This or that space needs to be renovated and rebuilt to maintain a budget. There's actually a well researched phenomenon of end-of-year "surge spending" where departments use up the remainder of their budget to ensure they receive the same or more the next year. A 'use it or lose it' phenomenon.
- Construction companies are entrenched and have lobbying power. They'll help drive the process of building something new.
- The plaza was flattened to make it easier to monitor. This addresses a way to control problems (homelessness, drugs, etc.) rather than spending money on solutions.
- People have crappy taste! "Outdated" designs are being destroyed for crap like this all over the country.

skater of the yeah

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2018, 06:29:14 PM »
Too bad the mayor wouldn't just compromise like LA did with the Court House. DC's offer was amazing and it would have been great to save this piece of history.

Shit, Montreal actually moved Big O to save it.


I'm pretty sure Nike SB worked with LA City Council to do all that to the Court House. DC's offer was amazing but kind of irrelevant since that offer happened in 2004. Pretty cool that Montreal saved that ditch spot too

nosporlactune

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2018, 06:51:25 PM »
Expand Quote
That sucks. What's going on with urban design? It seems like all skate spots/plazas that get torn down are replaced by something that is not only less skateable, but much less 3-dimensional and interesting from a pedestrian perspective.
[close]
The academic in here could probably do a better job describing this... but I'll give it a shot.

Building materials are expensive, construction is expensive. More expensive than it used to be when adjusted for inflation. So, by default, designs will be simpler and boring. This explains the 'what'.

As to the 'why':
- Parks departments, like all government departments need to justify their existence. This or that space needs to be renovated and rebuilt to maintain a budget. There's actually a well researched phenomenon of end-of-year "surge spending" where departments use up the remainder of their budget to ensure they receive the same or more the next year. A 'use it or lose it' phenomenon.
- Construction companies are entrenched and have lobbying power. They'll help drive the process of building something new.
- The plaza was flattened to make it easier to monitor. This addresses a way to control problems (homelessness, drugs, etc.) rather than spending money on solutions.
- People have crappy taste! "Outdated" designs are being destroyed for crap like this all over the country.

To add on to what was said. In short, a lot of the more 3 dimensional architecture you're referring to is of the modernist era of planning (mid- 20th century) - an era which LOVE Park's architects Ed Bacon an Vincent Kling were firmly a part of. This era was characterized by expansive downtown plazas, large monuments, and rough austere building materials. It was thought that these open spaces in between skyscrapers would be desirous as a place for people to gather and relax. Rather, come the 80's cities were widely disinvested from, and downtowns became more or less abandoned. Amidst the Reagan era's dismantling of the welfare state, these modernist era plazas became sanctuaries for the homeless amongst other things (like skaters), and were moralized by politicians and middle class Americans as a symbol of the decaying city and the social ills that characterized it. And so, the modernist era of planning/architecture came to be widely perceived negatively, part of it being the modernist era's own ideological shortcomings, but also the era was conflated with other large-scale dynamics that characterized the time. And so, the current era of planning is in many respects a rejection of that era. instead of monumental expansive austere plazas, there's a focus on small, intimate, programmable, "activated" spaces. The reciprocal feedback loop is that much of this drives and is driven by the "back to the city movement" or reductively, yuppie driven gentrification. Beer gardens draw in yuppies, and subsequently increased housing prices, tech start ups, and what not, thus filling the pockets of the city's politicians and business community. And so, you get the new LOVE Park, great for marketing opportunities, big sponsored events, instagram photos, etc etc. all the while, keeping the homeless and skaters and whatnot out cause there is no where for them to sit/skate/hang out, plus the parks are privately managed, so theres security guards there all the time. That was a really really terse explanattion, but im high now and that was the best i could do.

TheLurper

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2018, 06:55:17 PM »
Expand Quote
Too bad the mayor wouldn't just compromise like LA did with the Court House. DC's offer was amazing and it would have been great to save this piece of history.

Shit, Montreal actually moved Big O to save it.


[close]
I'm pretty sure Nike SB worked with LA City Council to do all that to the Court House. DC's offer was amazing but kind of irrelevant since that offer happened in 2004. Pretty cool that Montreal saved that ditch spot too

Nike was planning on doing a one day event. Just like the X-Games did with Philly. Alec Beck is the real hero who saved the Court House.

DC might not have saved LOVE Park, but what they tried to do is nothing short of amazing.

https://skateboarding.transworld.net/features/interview-alec-beck-liberating-courthouse-slo/
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 06:59:14 PM by TheLurper »

Quote from: ChuckRamone
I love when people bring up world hunger. It makes everything meaningless.
"That guy is double parked."
"Who cares? There are people starving to death! Besides, how does that affect you? Does it lessen the joy of parking?

thebacker

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2018, 07:09:32 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
That sucks. What's going on with urban design? It seems like all skate spots/plazas that get torn down are replaced by something that is not only less skateable, but much less 3-dimensional and interesting from a pedestrian perspective.
[close]
The academic in here could probably do a better job describing this... but I'll give it a shot.

Building materials are expensive, construction is expensive. More expensive than it used to be when adjusted for inflation. So, by default, designs will be simpler and boring. This explains the 'what'.

As to the 'why':
- Parks departments, like all government departments need to justify their existence. This or that space needs to be renovated and rebuilt to maintain a budget. There's actually a well researched phenomenon of end-of-year "surge spending" where departments use up the remainder of their budget to ensure they receive the same or more the next year. A 'use it or lose it' phenomenon.
- Construction companies are entrenched and have lobbying power. They'll help drive the process of building something new.
- The plaza was flattened to make it easier to monitor. This addresses a way to control problems (homelessness, drugs, etc.) rather than spending money on solutions.
- People have crappy taste! "Outdated" designs are being destroyed for crap like this all over the country.
[close]

To add on to what was said. In short, a lot of the more 3 dimensional architecture you're referring to is of the modernist era of planning (mid- 20th century) - an era which LOVE Park's architects Ed Bacon an Vincent Kling were firmly a part of. This era was characterized by expansive downtown plazas, large monuments, and rough austere building materials. It was thought that these open spaces in between skyscrapers would be desirous as a place for people to gather and relax. Rather, come the 80's cities were widely disinvested from, and downtowns became more or less abandoned. Amidst the Reagan era's dismantling of the welfare state, these modernist era plazas became sanctuaries for the homeless amongst other things (like skaters), and were moralized by politicians and middle class Americans as a symbol of the decaying city and the social ills that characterized it. And so, the modernist era of planning/architecture came to be widely perceived negatively, part of it being the modernist era's own ideological shortcomings, but also the era was conflated with other large-scale dynamics that characterized the time. And so, the current era of planning is in many respects a rejection of that era. instead of monumental expansive austere plazas, there's a focus on small, intimate, programmable, "activated" spaces. The reciprocal feedback loop is that much of this drives and is driven by the "back to the city movement" or reductively, yuppie driven gentrification. Beer gardens draw in yuppies, and subsequently increased housing prices, tech start ups, and what not, thus filling the pockets of the city's politicians and business community. And so, you get the new LOVE Park, great for marketing opportunities, big sponsored events, instagram photos, etc etc. all the while, keeping the homeless and skaters and whatnot out cause there is no where for them to sit/skate/hang out, plus the parks are privately managed, so theres security guards there all the time. That was a really really terse explanattion, but im high now and that was the best i could do.

There's still PLENTY of bums sitting on the 7/11 side

happenstance

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2018, 07:10:00 PM »
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
That sucks. What's going on with urban design? It seems like all skate spots/plazas that get torn down are replaced by something that is not only less skateable, but much less 3-dimensional and interesting from a pedestrian perspective.
[close]
The academic in here could probably do a better job describing this... but I'll give it a shot.

Building materials are expensive, construction is expensive. More expensive than it used to be when adjusted for inflation. So, by default, designs will be simpler and boring. This explains the 'what'.

As to the 'why':
- Parks departments, like all government departments need to justify their existence. This or that space needs to be renovated and rebuilt to maintain a budget. There's actually a well researched phenomenon of end-of-year "surge spending" where departments use up the remainder of their budget to ensure they receive the same or more the next year. A 'use it or lose it' phenomenon.
- Construction companies are entrenched and have lobbying power. They'll help drive the process of building something new.
- The plaza was flattened to make it easier to monitor. This addresses a way to control problems (homelessness, drugs, etc.) rather than spending money on solutions.
- People have crappy taste! "Outdated" designs are being destroyed for crap like this all over the country.
[close]

To add on to what was said. In short, a lot of the more 3 dimensional architecture you're referring to is of the modernist era of planning (mid- 20th century) - an era which LOVE Park's architects Ed Bacon an Vincent Kling were firmly a part of. This era was characterized by expansive downtown plazas, large monuments, and rough austere building materials. It was thought that these open spaces in between skyscrapers would be desirous as a place for people to gather and relax. Rather, come the 80's cities were widely disinvested from, and downtowns became more or less abandoned. Amidst the Reagan era's dismantling of the welfare state, these modernist era plazas became sanctuaries for the homeless amongst other things (like skaters), and were moralized by politicians and middle class Americans as a symbol of the decaying city and the social ills that characterized it. And so, the modernist era of planning/architecture came to be widely perceived negatively, part of it being the modernist era's own ideological shortcomings, but also the era was conflated with other large-scale dynamics that characterized the time. And so, the current era of planning is in many respects a rejection of that era. instead of monumental expansive austere plazas, there's a focus on small, intimate, programmable, "activated" spaces. The reciprocal feedback loop is that much of this drives and is driven by the "back to the city movement" or reductively, yuppie driven gentrification. Beer gardens draw in yuppies, and subsequently increased housing prices, tech start ups, and what not, thus filling the pockets of the city's politicians and business community. And so, you get the new LOVE Park, great for marketing opportunities, big sponsored events, instagram photos, etc etc. all the while, keeping the homeless and skaters and whatnot out cause there is no where for them to sit/skate/hang out, plus the parks are privately managed, so theres security guards there all the time. That was a really really terse explanattion, but im high now and that was the best i could do.
It was very nice of you to start with "To add on to what was said" instead of "let me correct this moron". Very kind of you Mr. Academic. +1.

emchen

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2018, 07:21:21 PM »
There's still PLENTY of bums sitting on the 7/11 side

Yup, a lot of the bums got pushed to municipal which makes me fear for its future. Jim Kenney already said he's putting off relocating the Rizzo statue for a few years "when renovations are taking place."

Just take down the rizzo and leave muni alone. Or maybe do something about the K2 epidemic.

https://philly.curbed.com/2018/8/10/17675630/rizzo-statue-thomas-paine-plaza-kenney-frank-protest

Merlin

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2018, 07:38:14 PM »
Abstract:

This is a case study of Philadelphia’s LOVE Park (officially John F. Kennedy Plaza). This study aims to distinguish two spaces which are often conflated in the literature – LOVE Park as public space and LOVE Park as common space – elaborating upon the ways that these spaces are distinct from, yet also reciprocally shape, one another. The results shed light on the emergence of “anti-common public space,” a concept contributing to the ongoing conversation on the dissolution of democracy in public spaces by adding the ways that collective ownership, spontaneity, and difference are increasingly negated in publicly accessible spaces. This encourages critical thought into the role and potentialities of commoning and common spaces, which has been absent from the sociological literature on publicly accessible spaces. Doing so breaks up the binary between public and private, providing an analytical toolkit for wider-reaching, more nuanced conversations on transformations in the urban landscape.


Note on my methods: employed primarily historical archival work, using the philadephia inquirer, skate media, and planning documents. Also interviewed people associated with the skate scene and planners/gov officials involved in the redesign. Spent a week in Philly too doing participant observation at the new love park.


Cool story bro...

thebacker

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2018, 07:39:33 PM »
Expand Quote
There's still PLENTY of bums sitting on the 7/11 side
[close]

Yup, a lot of the bums got pushed to municipal which makes me fear for its future. Jim Kenney already said he's putting off relocating the Rizzo statue for a few years "when renovations are taking place."

Just take down the rizzo and leave muni alone. Or maybe do something about the K2 epidemic.

https://philly.curbed.com/2018/8/10/17675630/rizzo-statue-thomas-paine-plaza-kenney-frank-protest
Definitely should do something about the k2

skater of the yeah

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2018, 07:44:19 PM »
Expand Quote
There's still PLENTY of bums sitting on the 7/11 side
[close]

Yup, a lot of the bums got pushed to municipal which makes me fear for its future. Jim Kenney already said he's putting off relocating the Rizzo statue for a few years "when renovations are taking place."

Just take down the rizzo and leave muni alone. Or maybe do something about the K2 epidemic.

https://philly.curbed.com/2018/8/10/17675630/rizzo-statue-thomas-paine-plaza-kenney-frank-protest
it's funny how Mayor Kenny is acting like it's hard to remove the Rizzo statue even after city officials agreed to remove it to not incur additional costs while the city just threw up $26 million to renovate an iconic park into a sidewalk. Also, the k2 epidemic there is real bad - @phillyk2 https://www.instagram.com/phillyk2/ I am not sure what possible solutions there are to solve the k2 problem since homeless ppl prefer k2 over weed since it is cheaper and really fucks them up to the point of no return
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 07:59:17 PM by skater of the yeah »

RoaryMcTwang

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Re: the new LOVE Park sucks and it pisses me off
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2018, 12:47:17 AM »