Protests in Turkey

[Alan]

Anyone following this? Shit's kicking off in a major way.






https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151505520839160


A summary of what's been going on => http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/831.php

[Evil Kraken from the Arctic Sea]

Pretty crazy, I think it's astonishing how protests are working nowadays. As the lady said, traditional media doesn't even broadcast about it. I think, while their role in the arabic spring was being overrated, social networks WILL play a huge role in our political systems, as now, for the first time in history, the people can actually acquire actor-status and organize themselves. With traditional forms of communication critical masses were just so much harder to accumulate.
I agree with the newslady, turkey has been turning from really solid political ground to shit over the past few years. People are tired of it and even though the outcome is not always good (see arabic countries), the frustration is understandable and I appreciate the people speaking out against the government.

[Tufty]

Pretty crazy, I think it's astonishing how protests are working nowadays. As the lady said, traditional media doesn't even broadcast about it. I think, while their role in the arabic spring was being overrated, social networks WILL play a huge role in our political systems, as now, for the first time in history, the people can actually acquire actor-status and organize themselves. With traditional forms of communication critical masses were just so much harder to accumulate.
I agree with the newslady, turkey has been turning from really solid political ground to shit over the past few years. People are tired of it and even though the outcome is not always good (see arabic countries), the frustration is understandable and I appreciate the people speaking out against the government.

 Actually Turkey was always shit politically like most of the world. Those hunderds of thousands  are not all of them Radicals who are fed up with totalitarianism.

 Before the present political administration (which is a theocratic one) there was the previous administration which was fond of militarism and we could say that resembled to Republicans. Many supporters of the past military administration are feeling neglected by the present administration and the weakness of their political party that is second in the parliament.

 Fuck the cops and capitalism etc, I dont doubt that many of the demonstrators are radicals but i doubt that the core of the demonstration is radical.

 Anyway Solidarity to true radicals.

For more information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Turks_and_Black_Turks

 Basically its a culture war between the european middle class lifestyle and the traditional muslim lifestyle which is favored by present administration.

[Evil Kraken from the Arctic Sea]

Expand Quote

Pretty crazy, I think it's astonishing how protests are working nowadays. As the lady said, traditional media doesn't even broadcast about it. I think, while their role in the arabic spring was being overrated, social networks WILL play a huge role in our political systems, as now, for the first time in history, the people can actually acquire actor-status and organize themselves. With traditional forms of communication critical masses were just so much harder to accumulate.
I agree with the newslady, turkey has been turning from really solid political ground to shit over the past few years. People are tired of it and even though the outcome is not always good (see arabic countries), the frustration is understandable and I appreciate the people speaking out against the government.

[close]

Actually Turkey was always shit politically like most of the world.
(...)
Before the present political administration is a theocratic one.

That's my point exactly. Yes it has started turning to shit before the present administration. But I think the present one continues the downwards trend. Also why are "true radicals" cool, and what makes them "truer" than other radicals? How do you spot a fake radical? Does they throw plastic bottles?

[Tufty]

Expand Quote

Expand Quote

Pretty crazy, I think it's astonishing how protests are working nowadays. As the lady said, traditional media doesn't even broadcast about it. I think, while their role in the arabic spring was being overrated, social networks WILL play a huge role in our political systems, as now, for the first time in history, the people can actually acquire actor-status and organize themselves. With traditional forms of communication critical masses were just so much harder to accumulate.
I agree with the newslady, turkey has been turning from really solid political ground to shit over the past few years. People are tired of it and even though the outcome is not always good (see arabic countries), the frustration is understandable and I appreciate the people speaking out against the government.

[close]

Actually Turkey was always shit politically like most of the world.
(...)
Before the present political administration is a theocratic one.

[close]

That's my point exactly. Yes it has started turning to shit before the present administration. But I think the present one continues the downwards trend. Also why are "true radicals" cool, and what makes them "truer" than other radicals? How do you spot a fake radical? Does they throw plastic bottles?

 Throwing out a riot-large demonstration seems radical, but if you fight for bringing back the previous regime you are not. We are talking about a military based conservative government applying law through police and army state.  What they are fighting against is what they created and what they will reinforce if they make the prime minister to quit.

 That doesnt seem radical from my point of view. The radical fights for real democracy, Justice and equality. Fighting to bring back the party that favours you and shits on other people is non radical.

[Alan]

 Actually Turkey was always shit politically like most of the world. Those hunderds of thousands  are not all of them Radicals who are fed up with totalitarianism.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying people protesting are radicals?

[Tufty]

Expand Quote

 Actually Turkey was always shit politically like most of the world. Those hunderds of thousands  are not all of them Radicals who are fed up with totalitarianism.

[close]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying people protesting are radicals?

I am not sure what you are asking either.

You mean in general or percisely in Turkey.

[Alan]

I mean this part:

"Those hunderds of thousands  are not all of them Radicals who are fed up with totalitarianism."

[Tufty]

I mean this part:

"Those hunderds of thousands  are not all of them Radicals who are fed up with totalitarianism."

I think i explain it clearly on the 1st post. I doubt that many of the protesters are fighting for real freedom many of them are supporters of the 2nd party (kemalists) who used to govern before Erdogan. They had an oppresive state with european characteristics before in contrast with an oppresive state with Muslim charecteristics today.  

[Alan]

Ah, ok. But practically everyone is protesting, even the LGBT community. And transforming from an oppressive secular state into an oppressive religious state isn't really the step in the right direction.

[Evil Kraken from the Arctic Sea]

And transforming from an oppressive secular state into an oppressive religious state isn't really the step in the right direction.

Exactly.

[brycickle]

Fuck being a true radical. I'm going to be a free radical. Cancer in the house!

[Matze]

I support these protests to the fullest.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

It's freaking crazy how overlooked those protests are.

I am also stunned that theres no Femen thread here too. I mean, women protesting naked are getting no attention and that pointless Koston docu gets some? Fuck.
I expected at least a thread degrading it to boobies without context.

[sexualhelon]

When I hear about things like this I find it to about as amazing as it can get. This is what citizens are supposed to do - the government is supposed to be in your favor and not against. They are supposed to be making decisions in the majorities best interest. To actually see people standing up for themselves against the government in this magnitude makes me want to shed tears of joy. Turkey's not exactly a 3rd world country and there's better along with worse places to live I suppose but if it's within the peoples means and rights then they should make a stand for the change. To me, this is what should have happened in the States when the whole Wall Street bailout happened.

[Jackburton]

What a waste.  Those people are lucky they don't get shot or beaten.

[weedpop]

^ Moron.

[Alan]

Building barricades

[Alan]

[neko]

So does anyone that understands a bit more of the background and whatnot of this situation want to break it down for us? I don't really trust what I read in the media...

[Alan]

Read this
http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/831.php

[chockfullofthat]

When I hear about things like this I find it to about as amazing as it can get. This is what citizens are supposed to do - the government is supposed to be in your favor and not against. They are supposed to be making decisions in the majorities best interest. To actually see people standing up for themselves against the government in this magnitude makes me want to shed tears of joy. Turkey's not exactly a 3rd world country and there's better along with worse places to live I suppose but if it's within the peoples means and rights then they should make a stand for the change. To me, this is what should have happened in the States when the whole Wall Street bailout happened.

The majority is Erdogan's party.  The biggest opposition strongholds are in major cities like Istanbul where you are seeing the protests, so the government not giving in to demands and dismissing these protestors as sore losers would be "making decisions in the majorities best interest."  Tufty was right, this is just a response to the culture wars going on in Turkey and a response to police brutality.  Turkey is a democracy so I think it's a bit different to compare these riots to Arab Spring. 

[Tufty]

Expand Quote

When I hear about things like this I find it to about as amazing as it can get. This is what citizens are supposed to do - the government is supposed to be in your favor and not against. They are supposed to be making decisions in the majorities best interest. To actually see people standing up for themselves against the government in this magnitude makes me want to shed tears of joy. Turkey's not exactly a 3rd world country and there's better along with worse places to live I suppose but if it's within the peoples means and rights then they should make a stand for the change. To me, this is what should have happened in the States when the whole Wall Street bailout happened.

[close]

The majority is Erdogan's party.  The biggest opposition strongholds are in major cities like Istanbul where you are seeing the protests, so the government not giving in to demands and dismissing these protestors as sore losers would be "making decisions in the majorities best interest."  Tufty was right, this is just a response to the culture wars going on in Turkey and a response to police brutality.  Turkey is a democracy so I think it's a bit different to compare these riots to Arab Spring.  

Spot on. Erdogan is cruel and is beyond brutal with a minority. Arab Spring had to do with dictators that werent approved by the majority of people. You have to clear that in your mind. 1 million protesters seems big in TV but Instabul has 15million citizens. Turkey had the most free elections of its history the last time Erdogan got around 40% and second party around 20% but that doesnt justify him trying to force the muslim lifestyle by law to everyone living in the country. Thats the cause of the social erruption there

 Police Brutality has gone beyond anything i ve seen in recent years even here in Greece. People should wipe off fuckin Erdogan but the second Party in Turkey is same shit but without the religious context. So people should be careful.

[chockfullofthat]

I thought this exchange on a football website explained the frustration well:

Apek•3 hours ago?

"What started with a peaceful enviromentalist protest has now being used by opportunist left-wing opposition to topple the government. What a shame..."


resistance> Apek•2 hours ago

"this is not about a park.

it's about not being heard

this would not have happened had it just been the park. before the
park, there was the ottoman pastry shop. and before that an old cinema.
and before that.... despite local protests, the government continues to
destroy keynote buildings and public space in favor of malls or mosques.
protests are to no avail. in a true democracy, citizens can question
and amend government initiatives.

it's about the abuse of state power

this wouldn't have happened had the turkish government not used
excessive teargas, guns, tanks, helicopters and physical violence to
crush the peaceful gezi park protestors. a true democracy allows for
protest and does not use excessive violence against its citizens.

it's about media being censored

this would not have happened if the big turkish media channels
covered the riots from the start. unfortunately there are strong ties
between media outlets and the government. this is why turkish protestors
use social media to seek the attention of foreign media. in a true
democracy, media is independent and reports in a balanced way on events
happening.

it's about minorities not being protected

this would not have happened had the turkish government done a good
job in protecting the different-minded. whether it is the lazy reaction
of the turkish governement to the attacks on alevi citizens in reyhanli,
or the way the governemnt tries to restrict the usage of alcohol, or
the way companies with opposite political color have a hard time keeping
business - turkish government not only doesn't protect its minorities,
it tries to destroy them. a true democracy cherishes its differences and
minorities.

this is about democracy"

[Alan]

Speaking of democracy and freedom of speech in Turkey, just came across the 2013 rankings for the Press Freedom Index.

Turkey is holding the unflattering 154th place. So much for that.

The political importance of Turkey (154th, -6) has grown even more because of the armed conflict in neighbouring Syria but it has again fallen in the index. It is currently the world?s biggest prison for journalists, especially those who express views critical of the authorities on the Kurdish issue.

http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2013,1054.html

[robasheep]

I wonder if the peace with PKK will hold. 


Many Turks view the gov't as being a puppet of the US...they are unhappy with how the gov't is allowing the west to dictate the insurgency in Syria. 

[Tufty]

 Unions have stepped in and strikes have been announced.

[my pregnant head]

A fried of mine is over in Istanbul at the moment covering the riots. He was only stopping over there to get a visa on his way to Iran to cover the elections when shit started really kicking off. Check out his articles if you've been following it.

http://rabble.ie/2013/06/04/fortress-taksim/

[neko]

A fried of mine is over in Istanbul at the moment covering the riots. He was only stopping over there to get a visa on his way to Iran to cover the elections when shit started really kicking off. Check out his articles if you've been following it.

http://rabble.ie/2013/06/04/fortress-taksim/

Thanks for posting that. Good reporting...I look forward to his updates.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151619900523774