Have corpo shoe brands lost their edge now they dominate the industry?

[Murray Hewitt]

Now that adidas is a juggernaut in skating I find I'm not as excited about their media and product output. It's probably just SLAP nostalgia to the OG Campus Vulc times but I preferred when the team was about half the size and they released 10 min tour videos every 6 months. When adidas was this roster it seemed to have a more cohesive image:Busenitz, Gonz, Nestor, Silas, Tim O, Lem, Donnelly, Lucas etc.

Now it's massive with A, B and C grade teams it seems. The flavour just isn't the same for me. Nike is the same. They all came in supporting the skaters favourite skaters, now they got everyone. Anyway I'll keep buying Blazer Mids as long as they keep making them.

[Jehoshaphat Augustus]

but really, is there a skate footwear company that doesn't employ these methods?
I'm looking into just strategically placing shoe goo on my feet and hitting the streets
We all pimpin somebody baby, and vice versa

[Zurg]

i agree with adidas. away days and the vids since haven't been as good. nike's video output was never amazing, but i like the johnny wilson edits theyve been releasing. not really feeling much of what they put out shoe wise either recently. as long as they keep the blazer

[PincherBug]

but really, is there a skate footwear company that doesn't employ these methods?
I'm looking into just strategically placing shoe goo on my feet and hitting the streets
We all pimpin somebody baby, and vice versa

Phil Knight is a fucking weasel 

[GAY]

Did corpo shoe brands ever have an "edge"? I mean, they were trendy with hypebeasts, but edgy?

Although now that I think about it...I would say that they tried harder in the beginning and now they're just coasting.

So my answer is yes despite my initial thoughts.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

You are a complete fucking moron if you ever thought they had an "edge" and didn't realize the current state was coming. These are skate divisions of giant soulless corporations, not a crew of skaters who decided to start a brand to realize their vision for what skating should be. They do market research, figure out what image people want, and create that image. In the end, as much domination of the market as possible is and must be the final goal of any publicly traded corporation by law. They knew to tread lightly when they came in, appear to support the underground/overlooked heroes to hide their true intentions, knock out the competitors, and then become the large generic shoe monoliths they are in every other sport market. It was a strategy, not a change of heart. The only thing about skaters they care about are their wallets.
The fact that this very obvious approach to marketing fooled so many skateboarders depresses me. As a culture, we once were smarter than that.

[ImportantGuy]

Nobody selling you anything ever has an "edge". Skaters have been fucked by skaters and non-skaters alike. Once money is involved it's every man for himself as capitalism would want it. I personally don't give a fuck if the person profiting from me skates or not. Some people are assholes, some aren't. Riding a wheelieboard has nothing to do with it.

Plus, Nike and Adidas just make better shoes, however despicable you may find the companies and their practices. I would assume the "core" brands use sweatshops as well.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Nobody selling you anything ever has an "edge". Skaters have been fucked by skaters and non-skaters alike. Once money is involved it's every man for himself as capitalism would want it. I personally don't give a fuck if the person profiting from me skates or not. Some people are assholes, some aren't. Riding a wheelieboard has nothing to do with it.

Plus, Nike and Adidas just make better shoes, however despicable you may find the companies and their practices. I would assume the "core" brands use sweatshops as well.

kink.com and cutco both sell products with an edge

[Atiba Applebum]

You are a complete fucking moron if you ever thought they had an "edge" and didn't realize the current state was coming. These are skate divisions of giant soulless corporations, not a crew of skaters who decided to start a brand to realize their vision for what skating should be. They do market research, figure out what image people want, and create that image. In the end, as much domination of the market as possible is and must be the final goal of any publicly traded corporation by law. They knew to tread lightly when they came in, appear to support the underground/overlooked heroes to hide their true intentions, knock out the competitors, and then become the large generic shoe monoliths they are in every other sport market. It was a strategy, not a change of heart. The only thing about skaters they care about are their wallets.
The fact that this very obvious approach to marketing fooled so many skateboarders depresses me. As a culture, we once were smarter than that.

Still bitter they didn’t let you bring your skateboard you brought from your parked car into the Away Days premiere?

[ImportantGuy]

Expand Quote

Nobody selling you anything ever has an "edge". Skaters have been fucked by skaters and non-skaters alike. Once money is involved it's every man for himself as capitalism would want it. I personally don't give a fuck if the person profiting from me skates or not. Some people are assholes, some aren't. Riding a wheelieboard has nothing to do with it.

Plus, Nike and Adidas just make better shoes, however despicable you may find the companies and their practices. I would assume the "core" brands use sweatshops as well.

[close]

kink.com and cutco both sell products with an edge

Simulating sexual violence is not edgy.

[ungzilla]

In the end, as much domination of the market as possible is and must be the final goal of any publicly traded corporation by law.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/02/why-the-maximize-shareholder-value-theory-is-bogus.html

to TL;DR the linked article, by quoting Cornell Law Professor Lynn Stout:

Legally, no statutes require that companies be run to maximize profits or share prices. In most states, corporations can be formed for any lawful purpose. Lynn Stout, a Cornell law professor, has been looking for years for a corporate charter that even mentions maximizing profits or share price. So far, she hasn’t found one. Companies that put shareholders at the top of their hierarchy do so by choice, Stout writes, not by law…

now, obviously the vast majority of corporations DO run their companies as if it were the law, but that has not always been so.

[MexicanSpaniard]

hahahaha edge

[Chuck Gender]

You are a complete fucking moron if you ever thought they had an "edge" and didn't realize the current state was coming. These are skate divisions of giant soulless corporations, not a crew of skaters who decided to start a brand to realize their vision for what skating should be. They do market research, figure out what image people want, and create that image. In the end, as much domination of the market as possible is and must be the final goal of any publicly traded corporation by law. They knew to tread lightly when they came in, appear to support the underground/overlooked heroes to hide their true intentions, knock out the competitors, and then become the large generic shoe monoliths they are in every other sport market. It was a strategy, not a change of heart. The only thing about skaters they care about are their wallets.
The fact that this very obvious approach to marketing fooled so many skateboarders depresses me. As a culture, we once were smarter than that.

Came here to post this.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Expand Quote

In the end, as much domination of the market as possible is and must be the final goal of any publicly traded corporation by law.

[close]

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/02/why-the-maximize-shareholder-value-theory-is-bogus.html

to TL;DR the linked article, by quoting Cornell Law Professor Lynn Stout:

Legally, no statutes require that companies be run to maximize profits or share prices. In most states, corporations can be formed for any lawful purpose. Lynn Stout, a Cornell law professor, has been looking for years for a corporate charter that even mentions maximizing profits or share price. So far, she hasn’t found one. Companies that put shareholders at the top of their hierarchy do so by choice, Stout writes, not by law…

now, obviously the vast majority of corporations DO run their companies as if it were the law, but that has not always been so.

Crazy! Just looked it up and confirmed you are right. Wild that its such a widely spread rumor.
It sounds like we generally agree though that the companies are run that way despite the law though.



And to whoever is crying about me driving to the premiere, its weird you obsessively stored that away to your memory, but not the fact that "go back to my car" was what I told security so I could go to the liquor store/deli across the street, and they still wouldn't let me. But you are right that its more evidence that they are corporate bullshit who pay for legitimacy but still run by bullshit corporate agendas.

[bawtawd3]

Nikes not gonna be relevant in a few more years. Adidas is gonna stick around for a while. Who cares.

[poowizard]

I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

[ImportantGuy]

They just look better too. The Janoski, Blazer, CK1, every Adidas shoe.

[Nth syd bear]

I never understood the whole "core" brand nonsense
I skated in nikes cons addidas puma way before the sb days started
What's the big deal they at least keep pros able to make a living after
Having to pay bills family and shit.. its fun to skate but some of these dudes like to have money too
Fuck who wouldn't want to get paid good money to skate

[Szechuan]

I used to care for the shoe industry. I only bought core brands. My feet hurt for years. Now I don't care and started wearing Nike. My feet are happier and they last longer. Stupid me.

Same. All the thin fallen, emerica and vans (Even though they're corpo) vulc shoes destroyed my feet back in the day.

[billyerlife]

I never understood the whole "core" brand nonsense
I skated in nikes cons addidas puma way before the sb days started
What's the big deal they at least keep pros able to make a living after
Having to pay bills family and shit.. its fun to skate but some of these dudes like to have money too
Fuck who wouldn't want to get paid good money to skate

I'm gonna keep making this point till the day I die I guess. Nike is not a charity, and they do not print money. They pay pros based on their abilities to make sales. That money is in skateboarding and people who like to wear skateboarding shit. As consumers we can give that money to companies owned by skateboarders, or we can give it to Nike and Adidas, and as lately skaters have decided to give that money to giant corporations they are able to pay their riders well. If we gave all that money to Emerica, HUF, State, et. al, they too would be able to pay their riders exorbitant amounts of money. I've never worn their shoes, because I think its fucking tragic that they have managed to weasel their way into our shit, but I do know that skater owned shoe companies make really fucking good shoes. Outside of personal preference, which is not irrelevant but is also not necessarily based in reason, there is no argument for supporting corporations over skater owned brands.

[Manolo]

Still amazing to me that both nike or adidas aren't making more original  pro models. Considering the size of the teams. It's mostly colorways and small mods of existing shoes? You have Prod Janoski and Koston on nike getting designs, Busenitz is a samba, Lucas a indoor super.

[baravettski]

Still amazing to me that both nike or adidas aren't making more original  pro models. Considering the size of the teams. It's mostly colorways and small mods of existing shoes? You have Prod Janoski and Koston on nike getting designs, Busenitz is a samba, Lucas a indoor super.

Sales driven and cost. Everyone wants what's been proven, seems like risk taking is at a minimum. Slap an embroidery on another old shoe and it's an easy sell. By sell I mean from company to retailer, kids in the streets decide from there. There are also expenses to new toolings and designs, royalties, etc so the companies need to weigh that vs the return on it. Because business.

[Manolo]

Expand Quote

Still amazing to me that both nike or adidas aren't making more original  pro models. Considering the size of the teams. It's mostly colorways and small mods of existing shoes? You have Prod Janoski and Koston on nike getting designs, Busenitz is a samba, Lucas a indoor super.

[close]

Sales driven and cost. Everyone wants what's been proven, seems like risk taking is at a minimum. Slap an embroidery on another old shoe and it's an easy sell. By sell I mean from company to retailer, kids in the streets decide from there. There are also expenses to new toolings and designs, royalties, etc so the companies need to weigh that vs the return on it. Because business.

Ok but when you generate 20 to 30billions a year, it might seem like you could afford a little risk. It's just disappointing to see legendary guys not getting proper pro shoes.

[Sk.A.T.A.N]

but really, is there a skate footwear company that doesn't employ these methods?
I'm looking into just strategically placing shoe goo on my feet and hitting the streets
We all pimpin somebody baby, and vice versa

I love that people still point out this problem everytime corps are mentioned... Its like talking about germany and saying hitler its still in the leadership. (And also lets pretend that skater owned brands dont do their shoes in sweatshops aswell). Times changed and conditions improved.
I literally have been to the shoe factories in Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam and I made sure I went to the in-line production to check the process and conditions. I must say that it looked pretty similar to what factories in Portugal look aswell, I didnt saw anything shocking at all, the ambient was clean and controlled, no teenagers, actually most of people looked experienced, some glue smell but everyone had masks and bottles of water in their chairs, they work for 8h each day, (start early and leave early but no night shifts), and I dont know the money they are paid but I'm sure its not under the law minimum wage, which is what people would get in Portugal too, the minimum. We just need to compare cost of living aswell, you can live with a lot less in vietnam than in europe, so what may sound bad its not so bad in the end, they spend a lot less in general (cheap food, rent...). And you cant just start paying more to people out of nowhere, that causes economical instability and problems.
One fact that one local was saying to me is that the vietnamese is getting better paid in general, so they can afford more cars and that causes lots of caos in the street because there's no space for so many cars and motorcycles (about 10 million people living in Ho Chi Minh), so driving through the streets always looks like a nightmare.

[Jehoshaphat Augustus]

Expand Quote

but really, is there a skate footwear company that doesn't employ these methods?
I'm looking into just strategically placing shoe goo on my feet and hitting the streets
We all pimpin somebody baby, and vice versa

[close]

I love that people still point out this problem everytime corps are mentioned... Its like talking about germany and saying hitler its still in the leadership. (And also lets pretend that skater owned brands dont do their shoes in sweatshops aswell). Times changed and conditions improved.
I literally have been to the shoe factories in Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam and I made sure I went to the in-line production to check the process and conditions. I must say that it looked pretty similar to what factories in Portugal look aswell, I didnt saw anything shocking at all, the ambient was clean and controlled, no teenagers, actually most of people looked experienced, some glue smell but everyone had masks and bottles of water in their chairs, they work for 8h each day, (start early and leave early but no night shifts), and I dont know the money they are paid but I'm sure its not under the law minimum wage, which is what people would get in Portugal too, the minimum. We just need to compare cost of living aswell, you can live with a lot less in vietnam than in europe, so what may sound bad its not so bad in the end, they spend a lot less in general (cheap food, rent...). And you cant just start paying more to people out of nowhere, that causes economical instability and problems.
One fact that one local was saying to me is that the vietnamese is getting better paid in general, so they can afford more cars and that causes lots of caos in the street because there's no space for so many cars and motorcycles (about 10 million people living in Ho Chi Minh), so driving through the streets always looks like a nightmare.

Hey buddy it sounds like you got ahold of the same info marc did





"I didn't sell out son, I bought in."
"it's called progress! we have to remain competitive!"
How is your miata driving these days?

[givecigstosurfgroms]

  Pretty funny thread title.

[Murray Hewitt]

Expand Quote

You are a complete fucking moron if you ever thought they had an "edge" and didn't realize the current state was coming. These are skate divisions of giant soulless corporations, not a crew of skaters who decided to start a brand to realize their vision for what skating should be. They do market research, figure out what image people want, and create that image. In the end, as much domination of the market as possible is and must be the final goal of any publicly traded corporation by law. They knew to tread lightly when they came in, appear to support the underground/overlooked heroes to hide their true intentions, knock out the competitors, and then become the large generic shoe monoliths they are in every other sport market. It was a strategy, not a change of heart. The only thing about skaters they care about are their wallets.
The fact that this very obvious approach to marketing fooled so many skateboarders depresses me. As a culture, we once were smarter than that.

[close]

Came here to post this.

I've never had such passionate replies to a SLAP thread I've made before. It's super exciting!

Of course the big guys are here to make as much money as possible. I was more getting at the marketing/team point of view that the bigger the team does not necessarily mean better. When the team was smaller I feel the brand image was a bit clearer.

[Lenny the Fatface]

According to right winged free market capitalists, this is an entrepreneur's opportunity to undercut the market... :

[ImportantGuy]

What is happening in skating is the same as in any other market. Everyday there are fewer, bigger companies. Just look at record labels, car companies, fast food chains, retail stores etc.

Commerce will seemingly only end once CO CORP. is the only brand you can legally buy anything from. The only place to eat will be McStarbucks, owned by CO CORP.

[Alan]

and I dont know the money they are paid but I'm sure its not under the law minimum wage, which is what people would get in Portugal too, the minimum. We just need to compare cost of living aswell, you can live with a lot less in vietnam than in europe, so what may sound bad its not so bad in the end, they spend a lot less in general (cheap food, rent...).

This is quite an oversimplification and makes it sound like they have it good, when the fact is that even if the working conditions may be better than 30 years ago, the workers are still being exploited. Why do you think they go on strike? Btw, can they afford to buy the product they're producing?

And you cant just start paying more to people out of nowhere, that causes economical instability and problems.

Hahaha, sorry, but this is a ridiculous argument. Like, Adidas or their contractors could well afford to pay their workers better, but they aren't because they care. "Economic instability" is code for lowered profits cause by raising wages, and we know corporations can't have that.