Author Topic: why are rosaries cool? (Read 5889 times)

Guile · « **Reply #30 on:** October 25, 2007, 07:03:23 PM »

humans are so fucked up, i doubt bears and lizards would buy into that bullshit

grimcity · « **Reply #31 on:** October 25, 2007, 07:30:58 PM »

J-Train, some of the things you just said sparked a thought that I've had before while in the company of people that I was told to be a "certain way" around because the people in question were very religious, and may possibly be extremely sensitive to certain topics of conversation, or the way those topics were presented.

That got me to wondering... should people treat the religious like most thoughtful people treat the handicapped? I'm not saying religion in general is a handicap (though I do know of some instances where I would say that), nor am I trying to say that the religious are regular or anything... what I'm asking is if more secular people should treat the religious with kid-gloves or be especially politically correct or something.

I mean, I can relate to a certain level of sensitivity when it comes to race, sexual orientation, or some other natural human condition that people have and are persecuted (or mistreated) over... but I can't relate to that when it comes to someone's willful, conscious choice.

You made a sort of skateboard analogy earlier, but I'd like to offer up a different one:
I sincerely love skateboarding more than anything I've ever loved. For over 22 years now, I've had an overwhelming obsession with it.
I grew up, was raised, and was a devout Christian for a large part of my life, but when I look at myself now, and my relationship with skateboarding, I can say that I'm more of a skateboarder than I ever was a religionist (and I was pretty fucking religious). Some could even equate my attempts at skateboard activism (on local and larger scale levels) as a religious fundamentalism.

Keeping this in mind... my cult like devotion to skateboarding... I don't get offended when I get busted from a spot. I don't like it, but I don't take it personal because I know that not everyone shares the value of skateboarding that I have. Some people (overzealous cops for example), even despise what I do... but I'm not offended by that either. It's just another thing that makes me a skateboarder, and them not a skateboarder. I made my choice to skate, and non skaters didn't. It has no effect on my skateboarding, and it's nothing I ever dwell on, even though hatred or unfairness may present itself to me every time I skate private property.

That's a really fucking stretched thin analogy I just wrote there, by the way. I think I almost broke it.

Tha J-train · « **Reply #32 on:** October 25, 2007, 10:10:19 PM »

grim, i would say its less an issue of kid gloves and more an issue of respect. and i think respect is due to those of every race, every sexual orientation, and every religion. and of course to those with disabilities. I'm not saying that rosaries should be outlawed among non-catholics, I'm just saying I find it disrespectful.

with your analogy, a main point to consider would be the fact that those people who kick you out are more often than not doing what they have to do. you're pursuing leisure, they're working. while they may disagree with you and even disrespect you, their reason for opposing you is because they have to survive. like you said, its a stretch. but i see your point. i can only respond by saying that religions, simply for the fact that they mean so much to certain people, should not be mocked, trivialized, or insulted. It's consideration. Ever said the word "regular" around someone who has a disabled sibling? I can guarantee you they'll find it offensive. It's because they have a personal relationship with that sibling. And those who consider themselves religious will tell you they have a personal relationship with God. thats all it comes down to, just being considerate. someone said earlier "kindness is my religion" well that's this is about.

grimcity · « **Reply #33 on:** October 25, 2007, 11:33:08 PM »

Quote from: Tha J-train on October 25, 2007, 10:10:19 PM

grim, i would say its less an issue of kid gloves and more an issue of respect. and i think respect is due to those of every race, every sexual orientation, and every religion. and of course to those with disabilities.

Ah, but this is one of the things I'm talking about... race, sexual orientation, disabilities and the like are part of the human condition despite the wishes of the person who has those traits, whereas religiosity is a choice... I'm not about to make a case saying it's ok to be disrespectful to the religious, as that would just be an asshole thing to do, but I would argue that the only way to respect religion (at least the flavors of Christianity that I come across) would be by partaking in the faith. I mean, according to a large swath of Christianity, by not believing in God or Jesus, then I'm doomed to an eternity of damnation... a notion that I find not only absurd, but fairy tail-ish. But by saying that, some religious folks might say I'm disrespecting them, which I'm not. I simply don't respect the religion. I respect people, including religious people, but I don't have any respect for religion that would refer to me as a sheep in a flock, or in my case, attempt to dictate that I'm a sinner on Lucifer's earth, destined for an eternity in either a lake of fire or in seclusion from a God that made everything.

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I'm not saying that rosaries should be outlawed among non-catholics, I'm just saying I find it disrespectful.

If someone was fucking with your rosary, I could see getting a bit offended... but who is really getting disrespected if they're doing something with one of their own? I mean, to some people, it's just a necklace. Yours is a device for prayer. If it's upsetting to God, he'll handle that shit, right?

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with your analogy, a main point to consider would be the fact that those people who kick you out are more often than not doing what they have to do. you're pursuing leisure, they're working. while they may disagree with you and even disrespect you, their reason for opposing you is because they have to survive. like you said, its a stretch. but i see your point. i can only respond by saying that religions, simply for the fact that they mean so much to certain people, should not be mocked, trivialized, or insulted. It's consideration. Ever said the word "regular" around someone who has a disabled sibling? I can guarantee you they'll find it offensive. It's because they have a personal relationship with that sibling. And those who consider themselves religious will tell you they have a personal relationship with God. thats all it comes down to, just being considerate. someone said earlier "kindness is my religion" well that's this is about.

I can dig a lot of what you're saying, but I have to ask this... if someone has a religious dictate that states "1+1=3", do I have to respect that just because that's something they're convinced is the truth?

Please don't get me wrong on what I'm saying... I'm not ragging on you at all, I respect the fact that you have a religious belief system... I just have no respect for religion itself. Since religion is mostly a set of instructions and rules, the only way to respect them would be to abide by them, in the same way we can selectively respect or not respect the law.

/tipsy

shutupbitch · « **Reply #34 on:** October 25, 2007, 11:37:05 PM »

Quote from: Tha J-train on October 25, 2007, 09:21:02 AM

why are people wearing rosaries as the latest piece of flair? I've seen them on bam, robin thicke, random dudes with the turn of the century elizabethean style going on, rasta looking dudes (which really doesn't make sense), guys who wear T-shirts over dress shirts, and now diamond's got two new shirts with rosaries on it. I don't mean to be a hater but as a catholic who actually prays the rosary it really trivializes a prayer that has made a big difference in my life, and seeing people throw it on to up their style points comes off as hella disrespectful to me. what's next, yarmulkes instead of new eras? well... i can't complain that much seeing how clothing companies have tried to turn the rastafarian religion into a marketing tool. There's a line there... its hard to say what's respectful and promotes vs what's bogus and cheapens.

ARGGGGHH.. THEY DON'T GROW HAIR ON YOUR CHEST. I DON'T BACK THIS FRUITY SHIT!

Alexactly · « **Reply #35 on:** October 26, 2007, 12:08:20 AM »

I was raised Mormon, and as soon as I was able to develop rudimentary critical thinking I rejected all of it. I sometimes wonder if I would still be a believer if I had been raised with a more balanced/moderate brand of Christianity. But, like, I also wonder what it would have been like if I'd been raised Muslim or Krishna.

I currently live with 4 other Christians, and things can get awkward. When we start drinking and having religious debates, I have to be very careful to not get offensive and/or reveal what I really think. I definitely relate to the treating Christian like they have some sort of handicap, but I think Christians feel that way about atheists, it's a natural human arrogance that you develop when you feel strongly about something.

Also, I don't think belief is a conscious choice. Like, I didn't choose to stop believing that Christ was my savior and that God told Joseph Smith to get as many wives as possible. I just didn't believe it. And I feel that the same is true for people of faith. I don't agree with them, and I think religion is a falsehood that has been and continues to be significantly destructive to humanity, but I don't for a second think that anyone could just turn off their beliefs.

Ughh, I'm sorry, I severely tired and mildly drunk. I can't organize my thoughts very well, and I apologize if I'm making no coherent points.

somekid · « **Reply #36 on:** October 26, 2007, 03:09:15 AM »

jesus rips.

Sleazy · « **Reply #37 on:** October 26, 2007, 05:52:54 AM »

I really don't want to be late to this party... J, you know where I can score some sick beads?

Tha J-train · « **Reply #38 on:** October 26, 2007, 09:15:58 AM »

Quote from: grimcity on October 25, 2007, 11:33:08 PM

If someone was fucking with your rosary, I could see getting a bit offended... but who is really getting disrespected if they're doing something with one of their own? I mean, to some people, it's just a necklace. Yours is a device for prayer. If it's upsetting to God, he'll handle that shit, right?

I can dig a lot of what you're saying, but I have to ask this... if someone has a religious dictate that states "1+1=3", do I have to respect that just because that's something they're convinced is the truth?

Please don't get me wrong on what I'm saying... I'm not ragging on you at all, I respect the fact that you have a religious belief system... I just have no respect for religion itself. Since religion is mostly a set of instructions and rules, the only way to respect them would be to abide by them, in the same way we can selectively respect or not respect the law.

/tipsy

yeah, its true, wearing rosaries as flair isn't that offensive - especially when compared to insults, jokes, and blatant lies about the catholic church. And like you said God will handle that, yes, we believe God will do justice (But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment - Matthew 12:36). Ideally, christians should warn people to be respectful of God without letting their anger speak for them. It's difficult and rare that christians do this completely out of love.

You don't have to respect what the religion teaches, like you said "i respect the fact that you have a religious belief system" is all I can ask for. i dont respect athiesm, but i respect athiests - which means I will take things into consideration before saying somethign like "how can you NOT believe in God? that's crazy!" i mean everyone thinks what they believe is right. otherwise they wouldn't believe it. you think my faith is 1 + 1 = 3, and I think the same of what you believe. theres no getting around that, so its more an issue of trying to see where they're coming from. do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

oh and jesus wouldn't be rockin that kind of weak angle on a boardslide

Sleazy · « **Reply #39 on:** October 26, 2007, 09:28:08 AM »

Quote from: Tha J-train on October 26, 2007, 09:15:58 AM

And like you said God will handle that, yes, we believe God will do justice

do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

so when we are all burning enterally for disrespecting god by not believing that some jewish guy from 2000 years ago was his son and not just another preacher with a god complex, does that mean that you can or can't think it's funny?

and if I told you it was predestiny for guys like me and grim, would you feel at all bad about us get tourchered without having a fair chance at salvation?

Guile · « **Reply #40 on:** October 26, 2007, 09:29:38 AM »

Quote from: somekid on October 26, 2007, 03:09:15 AM

jesus rips.

jesus on adidas? accels?

Ronald Wilson Reagan · « **Reply #41 on:** October 26, 2007, 09:31:39 AM »

I called christians "the white people of religion," not because their skin is white, but because compared to members of every other religion, they have not experienced any hardship or persecution, and are consistently in the majority of the population. Yet, they still act like the whole world is out to get and oppress them. Its annoying. Why are you offended? When was the last time a Christian was killed for being a Christian? When was the last large oppression of Christians? When was the last time you felt uncomfortable because you are christian? This shit doesn't happen, and if it does its on a much smaller scale than has occured to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. The only time that shit happens is when they go to foreign places and push their shit on people with different beliefs in "missions." Is there an equivalent to the swastika for Christians? Don't say an upside down cross because that is just a symbol of oppositional belief, not the idea that you hate christians and support the idea of killing them all. You guys are in the majority. When december comes around I get stupid Christmas ads, movies, sales, and decorations shoved down my throat. Is there any other holiday that another religion has that gets shoved down your throat? No. Y'all are so comfortable that if somebody wheres some symbol around their neck you get all offended. Don't. Just get over it, and keep moving on happily, knowing that nobody will ever find out what your religion is and suddenly become all awkward and uncomfortable around you. I'm teaching a class right now where a kid asked me "Are you a jew?" I said "Yeah, is there something wrong with that?" He simply said, "Yeah." Now kids see me walking down the hall and scream shit like "JEW!" and "SHALOM!" hatefully. That ever happen to you for being christian? Probably not. So quit whining, bitch.

Sleazy · « **Reply #42 on:** October 26, 2007, 09:45:15 AM »

in all fairness, the Romans persecuted the shit of the Christians

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Religion was very important to the Romans. Within the Roman Empire, Christianity was banned and Christians were punished for many years. Feeding Christians to the lions was seen as entertainment in Ancient Rome.

Ronald Wilson Reagan · « **Reply #43 on:** October 26, 2007, 09:48:27 AM »

About 2000 years ago. When they were first starting up. And they act like it makes up for all the persecution and crusades they've gone on since.

Guile · « **Reply #44 on:** October 26, 2007, 09:56:28 AM »

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

this about sums it up.

grimcity · « **Reply #45 on:** October 26, 2007, 09:56:56 AM »

Quote from: Tha J-train on October 26, 2007, 09:15:58 AM

i dont respect athiesm, but i respect athiests -

I hate to nit pick, but I just wanted to point out that atheism isn't something I believe in (you mention belief in the next quote)... it's a void. It's just a word use to quickly state that I don't have belief (theologically, that is). I'd venture to guess that you and I are probably very similar in what we do believe in... I'm pretty sure I'd be defined as a humanist, and I think most people with empathy and compassion are humanists, by nature. Some are secular, some others practice humanism under the name of a faith.

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which means I will take things into consideration before saying somethign like "how can you NOT believe in God? that's crazy!" i mean everyone thinks what they believe is right.

I know you're not really asking, but that's a question I get a lot and I really like answering it...
You know how you feel (or don't feel) about Thor, Ra, or Shiva? I feel the same way. You and I are just a trinity away from sharing the same basic theology.

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otherwise they wouldn't believe it. you think my faith is 1 + 1 = 3, and I think the same of what you believe. theres no getting around that, so its more an issue of trying to see where they're coming from. do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I'd be down for a discussion. I just dig theology debates.

shawn (vegan) · « **Reply #46 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:31:39 PM »

Tha J-train · « **Reply #47 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:55:52 PM »

Quote from: Theotis Beaglesly on October 26, 2007, 09:31:39 AM

I called christians "the white people of religion," not because their skin is white, but because compared to members of every other religion, they have not experienced any hardship or persecution, and are consistently in the majority of the population. Yet, they still act like the whole world is out to get and oppress them. Its annoying. Why are you offended? When was the last time a Christian was killed for being a Christian? When was the last large oppression of Christians? When was the last time you felt uncomfortable because you are christian? This shit doesn't happen, and if it does its on a much smaller scale than has occured to Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. The only time that shit happens is when they go to foreign places and push their shit on people with different beliefs in "missions." Is there an equivalent to the swastika for Christians? Don't say an upside down cross because that is just a symbol of oppositional belief, not the idea that you hate christians and support the idea of killing them all. You guys are in the majority. When december comes around I get stupid Christmas ads, movies, sales, and decorations shoved down my throat. Is there any other holiday that another religion has that gets shoved down your throat? No. Y'all are so comfortable that if somebody wheres some symbol around their neck you get all offended. Don't. Just get over it, and keep moving on happily, knowing that nobody will ever find out what your religion is and suddenly become all awkward and uncomfortable around you. I'm teaching a class right now where a kid asked me "Are you a jew?" I said "Yeah, is there something wrong with that?" He simply said, "Yeah." Now kids see me walking down the hall and scream shit like "JEW!" and "SHALOM!" hatefully. That ever happen to you for being christian? Probably not. So quit whining, bitch.

theo, don't get me wrong. I never said anything about how christians have it harder than jews. you were the one who said you have no problem offending a christian. I have a problem with offending a jew. If I got you right, you have no problem offending a religious group provided that they are relatively popular. I understand that you've been persecuted for what you believe, but to then say that you have no problem offending someone of another creed just because they haven't been offended as much as you comes across as very childish.
When people take the Lord's name in vain, I tell them I find that hella disrectful because of my beliefs. I hope you would do the same, because its not whining, its taking a stand for what you believe. and you'd be a bitch to do otherwise.

oh, and in answer to your question about when the last time a christian was killed for being a christian, take a look at what's going on (and has been going on for a long time) in china. I know that's on the whole other side of the planet but we all live in the same world. http://chinaaid.org/persecution/

grim, my uncle george (RIP) was a catholic priest when he met my aunt loiuse. He married her and became a humanist.
When I said "how can you not.." I meant I wouldn't say it in an insulting way, like you're an idiot if you don't believe in God. I also enjoy a good theological debate, but i always have a tough time seeing as how the catholic church has had so many problems throughout the years. When I was in nicaragua I met my first openly athiest friend (which is strange, because nicaragua is largely catholic) but he had been raised in california. he said he never really thought about it, him and his friends just never thought a supreme being existed. in a lot of ways i could relate to him better than some of my religious friends just because he questioned everything.

and to address sleazy,
no, I will not laugh if you end up in hell. a huge part of my faith is to love your neighbor, and it isn't very loving to laugh at your neighbor's misfortune.

and i believe God is just so he will make sure at some point you will have a chance at salvation - the free will vs. predestination debate is a whole nother topic that is incredibly confusing. to sum it up, my belief is that God knows the future, but he does not force you to do anything. He simply knows beforehand what you will do, because he's all-knowing.

on another note, the past two days of skating were basically the best ever. i wish fall would never end. I haven't had to deal with a winter in 3 years but this time i'll be in st. paul for the whole thing. ugh

Zurg · « **Reply #48 on:** October 26, 2007, 03:48:46 PM »

when's everybody gonna admit that they just worship the sun?

somekid · « **Reply #49 on:** October 26, 2007, 11:11:32 PM »

Quote from: Guile on October 26, 2007, 09:29:38 AM

Quote from: somekid on October 26, 2007, 03:09:15 AM
Expand Quote
jesus rips.

[close]

jesus on adidas? accels?

savier is gonna come back with jc as the only pro.

Guile · « **Reply #50 on:** October 26, 2007, 11:12:43 PM »

you are so fucking gnar'd.

soon · « **Reply #51 on:** October 27, 2007, 08:09:20 AM »

apparently they make great anal beads, that could be why.

Quote from: Tha J-train on October 25, 2007, 09:21:02 AM

why are people wearing rosaries as the latest piece of flair? I've seen them on bam, robin thicke, random dudes with the turn of the century elizabethean style going on, rasta looking dudes (which really doesn't make sense), guys who wear T-shirts over dress shirts, and now diamond's got two new shirts with rosaries on it. I don't mean to be a hater but as a catholic who actually prays the rosary it really trivializes a prayer that has made a big difference in my life, and seeing people throw it on to up their style points comes off as hella disrespectful to me. what's next, yarmulkes instead of new eras? well... i can't complain that much seeing how clothing companies have tried to turn the rastafarian religion into a marketing tool. There's a line there... its hard to say what's respectful and promotes vs what's bogus and cheapens.

magnet · « **Reply #52 on:** October 27, 2007, 01:03:03 PM »

People always rocked crucifixes for whatever reason since forever, those Buddhist rosaries were popular a while ago and so was that Kaballah red string or whatever it was, rappers might still be wearing gold/platinum iced out Jesus faces. Get over it and move on. It's this offended holier than thou attitude that make people dislike 'religious people' because they're all hung up on what other people are doing or not doing.

Knockout Ned · « **Reply #53 on:** October 27, 2007, 07:37:05 PM »

Quote from: Tha J-train on October 25, 2007, 09:21:02 AM

why are people wearing rosaries as the latest piece of flair? I've seen them on bam, robin thicke, random dudes with the turn of the century elizabethean style going on, rasta looking dudes (which really doesn't make sense), guys who wear T-shirts over dress shirts, and now diamond's got two new shirts with rosaries on it. I don't mean to be a hater but as a catholic who actually prays the rosary it really trivializes a prayer that has made a big difference in my life, and seeing people throw it on to up their style points comes off as hella disrespectful to me. what's next, yarmulkes instead of new eras? well... i can't complain that much seeing how clothing companies have tried to turn the rastafarian religion into a marketing tool. There's a line there... its hard to say what's respectful and promotes vs what's bogus and cheapens.

this reminds me of a bumper sticker i saw when i was little,
"16,000 children die of starvation daily - why should "God" answer YOUR prayers?"

do you honestly think if god were real he would give a fuck about disrespecting some string?

Sleazy · « **Reply #54 on:** October 29, 2007, 08:20:12 AM »

^^^ gnar'd

the arrogance of praying always amazes me. with all the shit going on in the world, god's got time to care about your promotion\girl\problems...

please

Ronald Wilson Reagan · « **Reply #55 on:** October 29, 2007, 10:17:19 AM »

China oppresses all religions. No religion in a communist dictatorial state. And J, I'm not just talking about jews, I'm talking about muslims, buddhists, taoists, satanists, basically every religion in the world has it harder than christians do.And its not because of beliefs, its because of who your parents are. The worst thing that happens to christians are that people say "Jesus!" when they are frightened, and occasionally wear your jewlery for fashion rather than religion. Christians have the biggest missionary system in the world too. They go around offering help to people as long as they promise they will follow this garbage. The force their religion on people and oppress with their power system. So cry me a river, some people don't like you.

toque · « **Reply #56 on:** October 29, 2007, 12:16:53 PM »

the title of this thread is really funny to me for some reason......

I remember a couple of years ago I was wearing this cheap plastic rosary as a belt and this kid who was into hardcore punk music or whatever started getting on my case about it so I pretended that I was seriously into religion and he just talked to me about how bad it was for a whole hour......that was dope....

I guess my opinion would go a long with those who say "the J-train is pretty wack for even caring....."...as for religion as a whole, I couldn't even begin to discuss that stuff....im just not framiliar with it, or smart enough to have good opinions in that area.....

L.S · « **Reply #57 on:** October 29, 2007, 12:48:23 PM »

i enjoyed reading through this thread but im too tired to contribute.

Alan · « **Reply #58 on:** October 29, 2007, 02:01:48 PM »

Quote from: forks/knives save lives on October 29, 2007, 12:16:53 PM

I remember a couple of years ago I was wearing this cheap plastic rosary as a belt

Wow, that's cutting edge fashion right there.

Myself, I wonder why anybody would even go out of their way to wear a rosary if it meant nothing to them, and if it is a statement against religion then it's a shitty statement, sort of like wearing a Che Guevara shirt at the mall.

grimcity · « **Reply #59 on:** October 29, 2007, 02:05:28 PM »

Author Topic: why are rosaries cool? (Read 5889 times)

shutupbitch