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Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: ianrussel on September 25, 2018, 09:21:39 AM
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http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/2018/09/24/make-money-filming-skateboarding/
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always wondered about this, thanks!
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some good comments on there but my favorite is 'erik bragg is a boring fagg'.
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interesting idea that bragg brings up about starting a union for filmers:
I thought about starting a union for skateboarding filmers long ago to protect us in instances like that. Let’s say you started it and got a bunch of the big dogs involved, all you would do is require a couple things. If you use our clips on Instagram, you have to pay us X amount. If you resell our clips, we want X percentage of that sale. You couldn’t be too much of an asshole, but just enough to feel protected. I don’t think that’s that far-fetched.
i've seen people on here bring up the idea of a union for skateboarders, but i hadn't really considered the idea as it might apply to filmers. seems like bragg should get in touch with matt schleyer, who had this to say about the berrics:
The Berrics has been going social media crazy to try to continue to draw attention to themselves. They continually repost other people’s content without asking, and they have no plan to pay the people they are stealing the videos from. They have used my videos without permission and would not take them down after I asked. One of those videos was at Pyramid Ledges (http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Matt_Schleyer_comment.jpg (http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Matt_Schleyer_comment.jpg)), and I still can’t figure out how my video relates to their indoor skatepark. Still waiting on my checks, Berra! I got unpaid invoices dating back to 2016 for projects done with you guys! But I’m not the only one. Unfortunately many other photographers and filmers are in the same boat as me when it comes to getting paid from them.
kind of reminds me of this youtube video i once saw of mac miller getting confronted about "stealing" a beat from these producers. with the wealth of content (whether it be beats or skate clips) that's now readily available, seemingly for free, via social media, it's pretty easy for people (like mac miller or the berrics) to take something and then use it as if it was their own. which then pisses off the original creator because their content is gaining way more traction via a larger, more popular channel that is in no way associated with them, and often times isn't even crediting them. not sure if dudes need to be getting paid each time their content gets reposted on instagram, but giving the original creator a credit, at the very least, seems like the decent thing to do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pv1_mmOTb8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pv1_mmOTb8)
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I’ve never gotten paid for anything on Instagram. If social media is your best form of marketing then you should have a budget to pay the people that are contributing to your brand’s marketing scheme on Instagram. The Berrics has been going social media crazy to try to continue to draw attention to themselves. They continually repost other people’s content without asking, and they have no plan to pay the people they are stealing the videos from. They have used my videos without permission and would not take them down after I asked. One of those videos was at Pyramid Ledges, and I still can’t figure out how my video relates to their indoor skatepark. Still waiting on my checks, Berra! I got unpaid invoices dating back to 2016 for projects done with you guys! But I’m not the only one. Unfortunately many other photographers and filmers are in the same boat as me when it comes to getting paid from them.
I thought about starting a union for skateboarding filmers long ago to protect us in instances like that.’ve seen filmers and photographers come in and say, “I’ll do all this shit for free, just @ me,” and that creates a fucked up economy. You’re never gonna get paid appropriately and now no one else is either. A staff filmer I know got fired because there were too many people to do the work for nothing that he was getting paid to do.
Pretty much sums it up for me. Monetize youtube and be one step away from Revolve, freelance for peanuts and have your shit stolen on instagram, or compete with industry big dogs for a spot at the table with big footwear or a heavy brand. It doesn't make sense to say "Skateboarding owes you nothing" while paying out of pocket to produce content for the likes of Nike or other mall brands for @'s and exposure. These companies are laughing their way to the bank while creatives act like crabs in a bucket.
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Being a filmer sounds horrible, Seems like a lot of effort for crumbs.
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I was watching an am skater chat on insta and he recently got a clip on thrasher. He says the filmer got paid but he didn't.
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can we stop giving erik bragg a platform? dude sucks.
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Krooked's IG posted a line I filmed with Bobby with no filmer credit. I had to reach out to their IG guy to request a tag. IG guy is on tour so he probably just rushed and forgot. Either way giving credit should be protocol and we shouldn't have to feel we may be "kooked" for asking.
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the skater rarely gets paid for video/photos unless he is getting video/photo incentives. the filmer/photog usually can get $ for an edit or photo depending where its published. ive gotten paid for stuff i filmed and split it with the skater half n half. seems funny to get paid for filming someone whos busting their ass way harder than the filmer.
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Sucks man. I used to be cool with the way filmers got paid when we were younger, But now i realize they sit there or follow you for hrs and days. If you spend 5 hrs trying to get the clip but don't get it... they don't get paid. Even if you make the trick after a couple different visits.. the hourly break down is horrible on the pay scale.
I would sometimes pay them out of my own pocket for putting in the time. Buying dinners, or whatever i could do to make myself feel better about using their services knowing they are going to fight to get $50-$75 per clip or line. A good pay day could be 2,500-5k for a 3 minute pack of clips. Usually that would take a few months to get those clips.. so again its a shitty hourly rate for those guys.
I never liked filming with the "staff filmer" though. I always preferred to have some type of control over my footage. Felt better to work with the filmer on thing like were we want the footage to go. Staff guys will tell you the "Co" owns the footage since you filmed it with the staff filter. Its pretty much bullshit.
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The videos from your era (96-2008) reflect the importance of compensating the ones capturing your skating.
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can we stop giving erik bragg a platform? dude sucks.
Couldn't agree more. Dude thinks he a little more important than he actually is. I think its time to stop adding material to his spank bank.
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I wanna know how much Johnny Wilson is getting paid to film for Nike, Supreme, and 917. Does he have any interviews out?
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Filmers are some of the most hard working people in the industry, some are also lazy, but usually they are the ones picking everyone up driving them around having the spots fixing the spots and motivating people to skate the spots. As kalis said, $50 for multiple trips each hours long is nothing, filmer has to be invested in the skater and want to do it for the love. I understand all sides of the equation, would be cool for filmers to get paid more, would also be cool for everyone involved to get paid more.
I know in a lot of other creative trades there is an unspoken rule about how much things cost, for example in sign painting, if you paint a sign for $200 cheaper than the local guy, you will get hassled and hated on hard by the community. I would assume skateboarding is the same way and why there are standard prices for clips.
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Sucks man. I used to be cool with the way filmers got paid when we were younger, But now i realize they sit there or follow you for hrs and days. If you spend 5 hrs trying to get the clip but don't get it... they don't get paid. Even if you make the trick after a couple different visits.. the hourly break down is horrible on the pay scale.
I would sometimes pay them out of my own pocket for putting in the time. Buying dinners, or whatever i could do to make myself feel better about using their services knowing they are going to fight to get $50-$75 per clip or line. A good pay day could be 2,500-5k for a 3 minute pack of clips. Usually that would take a few months to get those clips.. so again its a shitty hourly rate for those guys.
I never liked filming with the "staff filmer" though. I always preferred to have some type of control over my footage. Felt better to work with the filmer on thing like were we want the footage to go. Staff guys will tell you the "Co" owns the footage since you filmed it with the staff filter. Its pretty much bullshit.
I've always wondered if I undersold myself back when I filmed the bulk of a couple big parts, sounds like maybe I was in the right range after all. I always had a full time job though - if you think making money filming skating is hard in the US, try living in Canada. These fools wanna pay you in Tim Horton's gift cards and "exposure".
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These fools wanna pay you in Tim Horton's gift cards and "exposure".
That seems like it's pretty much the currency in video shooting/editing, especially today.
I've got a friend who does that shit and people constantly ask him to do stuff for free. He's had to learn to say "I'm a 40 year old professional, I don't need stuff for my reel."
Consequently, he misses out on a lot of gigs because every year there is another batch of film school grads willing to work for free because they think it's going to lead to payed work.
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I would never be able to live like that. That’s insane. Hats off to those guys for giving us amazing footage and photos for all of these years.
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I will say from personal experience, even with the best case situation. Your not getting paid shit for what you deserve, I have since worked in a lot of other industries and seen what content that is being used in the same way of skating is truly worth. The sad part of the skate industry is that they use the fear tactics that some younger kid will do it for less so no one ever makes anything close to what the actually deserve. So many fimers get taken advantage of because they are afraid of losing their status. This a game that the industry knows all to well.
when you take a step back and look at all the great filmers in skateboarding and see how they all are forced to move away from skating to make an actually decent living that should be enough evidence in its self. The skate industry is based around using people because they love something, and the only really people making real money are the guys at the top playing around with kids lives.
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The berrics featured a part I filmed and edited that was part of a full length video I made. It was their own separate upload on their YouTube and on their site. I sent them the file because they asked and wanted to feature it. The version I sent had three to five seconds at the end that just said who filmed the part (me) and included a link to where the full length video could be seen/purchased. They took that video and re-edited it so that it cut out early and gave me no credit. Fuck these pieces of shit for stealing other people's content for their lame skatepark website.
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411(in its late years) used a couple clips i filmed of my friend and i didnt get anything except my name in the credits. i think it was kinda on me as i didnt invoice, but i was naive and didnt really understand how things worked. i wonder if they wouldve paid. the clips had already been used in our homie video at least. my friend also contributed, but wasnt even credited. he was pissed.
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Filming and editing skateboarding videos gives you all the real world skills, both the technical and intangibles you need to go out and make videos for better paying clients.
When "they owe," learning how to get that money out of their pocket and into yours is everything. Say what you will about Erik Bragg, he has figured that much out, and aspiring filmers and editors could learn a thing or two from him.
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I got paid $250 from a random YouTube channel once. They messaged me asking to use a clip that was already on YouTube of my friend eating shit. They were a "fail" channel and posted montages of people eating shit doing whatever. They even sent a contract in email and I was still allowed to keep my video online. I can't remember the name of the channel anymore though as this was in 2012.
I remember my friend jokingly asking for a cut but I told him that this is the only amount of money I'll ever get paid for filming skateboarding. Since then we've filmed countless edits and 2 full lengths and I definitely spent more than $250 on tapes and camera stuff over the years.
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I got paid $250 from a random YouTube channel once. They messaged me asking to use a clip that was already on YouTube of my friend eating shit. They were a "fail" channel and posted montages of people eating shit doing whatever. They even sent a contract in email and I was still allowed to keep my video online. I can't remember the name of the channel anymore though as this was in 2012.
I remember my friend jokingly asking for a cut but I told him that this is the only amount of money I'll ever get paid for filming skateboarding. Since then we've filmed countless edits and 2 full lengths and I definitely spent more than $250 on tapes and camera stuff over the years.
failblog?
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I wonder if this is the reason why Reda doesn’t show up on the Berrics anymore. Maybe he’s not down with how they handle other people’s content.
Will this be the downfall of the Berrics now that it’s out in the open?
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Bragg is such a fucking douchebag. Every one of his answers just made me mad.
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The first time I got a clip in a actual video happened all at the same time. I had one trick in Volcom's Let's Live, one in Nike's Nothing But The Truth, and one in the Listen video. I had no idea how to get paid, and went out and bought a physical booklet of invoices and sent them out. Out of all the 3 companies, I only got a check from Listen, which is ironic since they were the smallest company.
As chatbot said, I also later got hit up to sell slams to one of those TV shows that show bloopers or whatever. I got $900 for 3 clips and that's the most I've ever got paid for a single clip. I randomly saw one of the slam clips playing on a TV at a bar, which was pretty funny.
The couple times I filmed stuff for Deluxe projects, they were always quick about paying, which doesn't surprise me since Jim seems like he'd make it a priority people got paid.
Out of all the times I got paid from skating over the course of my life, there's no way it covered the cost of cameras and tapes I purchased over that same time period.
I can't imagine trying to make it in filming these days.
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i always thought Tim Horton's gift cards WERE the official currency of Canada.
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was going to sell some shit to Navs for the Skeleton Key (how they talked about getting paid once the video comes out) video of my homie, but then the skater posted the clips on his personal instagram. Later that day navs sent me a text that they couldn't use the clip, shit bummed me out beyond belief.
It was my fault for sure letting him have the clip in the first place, but still I think the skaters themselves should be more conscious of how we get paid.
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can we stop giving erik bragg a platform? dude sucks.
Couldn't agree more. Dude thinks he a little more important than he actually is. I think its time to stop adding material to his spank bank.
(http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/BRAGG-MOTORBOARD-1024x614.jpg)
The fact that he used this terribly photoshopped image in his part of his interview honestly says enough about him.
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Sucks man. I used to be cool with the way filmers got paid when we were younger, But now i realize they sit there or follow you for hrs and days. If you spend 5 hrs trying to get the clip but don't get it... they don't get paid. Even if you make the trick after a couple different visits.. the hourly break down is horrible on the pay scale.
I would sometimes pay them out of my own pocket for putting in the time. Buying dinners, or whatever i could do to make myself feel better about using their services knowing they are going to fight to get $50-$75 per clip or line. A good pay day could be 2,500-5k for a 3 minute pack of clips. Usually that would take a few months to get those clips.. so again its a shitty hourly rate for those guys.
I never liked filming with the "staff filmer" though. I always preferred to have some type of control over my footage. Felt better to work with the filmer on thing like were we want the footage to go. Staff guys will tell you the "Co" owns the footage since you filmed it with the staff filter. Its pretty much bullshit.
I've always wondered if I undersold myself back when I filmed the bulk of a couple big parts, sounds like maybe I was in the right range after all. I always had a full time job though - if you think making money filming skating is hard in the US, try living in Canada. These fools wanna pay you in Tim Horton's gift cards and "exposure".
The bulk of my money goes to T-Ho’s
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Big shoe co is the way to go if you can get your foot in the door. I wouldn't even bother with hard good companies. It's obvious upper management and their owners pocket the majority of profits while screaming "core".
Even go after your shop owners, if they are successful and you do media for them don't do that shit for free.
When you ask and they don't say no you know your worth.
The core industry has made itself look bigger than it actually is. It's a complete joke. Squeeze everything you can from anyone you can if they intend to profit from your work in anyway.
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I've always thought being a freelance filmer in the skateboard industry (as a career) is one of the worst decisions you could make. You could just spend all that time freelancing in other industries for SO much more money. Filming skating is way more fun though which (to me) is worth doing it for nothing.
Oh and also, I got paid for filming something for the Berrics in 2016 and it went completely smoothly - and the video never even came out.
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The berrics featured a part I filmed and edited that was part of a full length video I made. It was their own separate upload on their YouTube and on their site. I sent them the file because they asked and wanted to feature it. The version I sent had three to five seconds at the end that just said who filmed the part (me) and included a link to where the full length video could be seen/purchased. They took that video and re-edited it so that it cut out early and gave me no credit. Fuck these pieces of shit for stealing other people's content for their lame skatepark website.
I filmed Matt Fisher's "Welcome to Friendship" part for the Berrics (about 3 min of footage) in exchange for a couple Friendship decks... gotta say fuck the Berrics.
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was going to sell some shit to Navs for the Skeleton Key (how they talked about getting paid once the video comes out) video of my homie, but then the skater posted the clips on his personal instagram. Later that day navs sent me a text that they couldn't use the clip, shit bummed me out beyond belief.
It was my fault for sure letting him have the clip in the first place, but still I think the skaters themselves should be more conscious of how we get paid.
never trust a skater with footage... they can't resist the urge to blow all your hard work for some sweet sweet insta likes
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So many good reasons to set goals at a young age to be a skateboard filmer as a career. Especially since you can win video contests like Trick of the Year with a cell phone.
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Oh yeah, I’ve lost clips and filmed them so shitty that they couldn’t be used. I chopped off half of Felipe Gustavo’s body on a line that took him three hours. He was pretty bummed on that.
You gotta come clean because you have to give the skater an opportunity to do it again, as embarrassing as it is. Nobody has ever been so pissed that they don’t want to film with me anymore. It’s always filler anyways and that’s what I’ll say, like, “Who cares, that shit was filler. Let’s get all bangers.” Like flip it back on them.
- Erik Bragg
Fucks up a clip then tells the skater their trick was filler, what a kook
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Most fucked up part of this whole thing was how the Berrics doesn't pay filmers for their work.
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Most fucked up part of this whole thing was how the Berrics doesn't pay filmers for their work.
does that really surprise you though?
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Most fucked up part of this whole thing was how the Berrics doesn't pay filmers for their work.
I'm not saying I know for 100% sure, but from the many stories I heard, the people that were supposed to have PUSH parts on the Berrics were guaranteed $50,000 each and then Berra backed out on posting them besides 1 or 2. That's a lot of money to be banking on and then abruptly told it's not coming.
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Most fucked up part of this whole thing was how the Berrics doesn't pay filmers for their work.
does that really surprise you though?
Surprising, no. Deserving of being called out and shamed endlessly, yes.
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Oh yeah, I’ve lost clips and filmed them so shitty that they couldn’t be used. I chopped off half of Felipe Gustavo’s body on a line that took him three hours. He was pretty bummed on that.
You gotta come clean because you have to give the skater an opportunity to do it again, as embarrassing as it is. Nobody has ever been so pissed that they don’t want to film with me anymore. It’s always filler anyways and that’s what I’ll say, like, “Who cares, that shit was filler. Let’s get all bangers.” Like flip it back on them.
- Erik Bragg
Fucks up a clip then tells the skater their trick was filler, what a kook
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Most fucked up part of this whole thing was how the Berrics doesn't pay filmers for their work.
I'm not saying I know for 100% sure, but from the many stories I heard, the people that were supposed to have PUSH parts on the Berrics were guaranteed $50,000 each and then Berra backed out on posting them besides 1 or 2. That's a lot of money to be banking on and then abruptly told it's not coming.
This is a rumor I heard, but apparently the filmers that didnt get paid just kept the RED cameras they were loaned until they were paid.
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Most fucked up part of this whole thing was how the Berrics doesn't pay filmers for their work.
I'm not saying I know for 100% sure, but from the many stories I heard, the people that were supposed to have PUSH parts on the Berrics were guaranteed $50,000 each and then Berra backed out on posting them besides 1 or 2. That's a lot of money to be banking on and then abruptly told it's not coming.
This is a rumor I heard, but apparently the filmers that didnt get paid just kept the RED cameras they were loaned until they were paid.
Sounds like a thread of it's own.
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Most fucked up part of this whole thing was how the Berrics doesn't pay filmers for their work.
I'm not saying I know for 100% sure, but from the many stories I heard, the people that were supposed to have PUSH parts on the Berrics were guaranteed $50,000 each and then Berra backed out on posting them besides 1 or 2. That's a lot of money to be banking on and then abruptly told it's not coming.
This is a rumor I heard, but apparently the filmers that didnt get paid just kept the RED cameras they were loaned until they were paid.
Sounds like a thread of it's own.
Berrics is still at fault but I think it was mountain dew who backed out, they funded the first "season" of push projects then bailed on the second after they had started.