The Indy Thread

[Rick Trapasso]

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I’ve been playing with fire lately with how loose my 149s are. The kingpin nut is barely hanging by a thread and I know it’s going to fall off when I least expect it.

If watching Ben DeGros videos has taught me anything, it’s that I understand how trucks work through feel but definitely not through engineering. I’ve never shaved down bushings before, and was wondering if anyone knows which one - top or bottom barrel - would be smarter to shave down in order to allow for more nut security (heh) but without sacrificing turnability.

[close]

I think probably top.
Unless I'm wrong I think fucking with the bottom bushing will change the angle of your hangar and/or if still loose enough the hangar can pop up and down out of the baseplate

Yep, top for sure.

Shaving the bottom will change your geometry like salto said.

[Plan9Customs]

Yeah top cut down. I’ve run the top at 3/16” tall w/o the pivot popping out. If you go that loose be aware that it will oval the hell out the hole(that kingpin goes through) on the hanger.
You can run tops on top and bottom(I do) and it will bring in your wheelbase a little but I ride f/h so it brings it about to standard w/b with those.

Dumb question, but have you tried running a conical bottom yet? You’ll get a better turn than with a barrel.

[Mbrimson88]

I’ve been playing with fire lately with how loose my 149s are. The kingpin nut is barely hanging by a thread and I know it’s going to fall off when I least expect it.

If watching Ben DeGros videos has taught me anything, it’s that I understand how trucks work through feel but definitely not through engineering. I’ve never shaved down bushings before, and was wondering if anyone knows which one - top or bottom barrel - would be smarter to shave down in order to allow for more nut security (heh) but without sacrificing turnability.

As others have said, that is how I have done it a lot in the past and it has worked as intended, but I will say I have cut bushings too much or messed some up in trial and error there too.

Before I get too deep in that, what is your current setup, eg stock bushings?  Changed bushings to anything else, or tried anything else, like softer bushings at all?

I usually go with old red 92 duro low tops in a conical shape (not cylinder) but have also run just the normal blue conical shape bushings in 92 as well, which gives me a little more stiffness while being able to run them with a whole lot more turn than what any other options can, but as much as this sounds like opposites, this is my thinking. 

When I tried softer bushings, they were way too mushy all round, so didn't actually give me back the control and turn that I needed.  In trying harder bushings, until they really wore in they were way too tight and I just couldn't skate how I usually would, so in trying to figure out the best overall option, trimming down the top bushing a bit, or then buying the aftermarket low heads when they came out, seemed to work best.

I still use the regular bushing washers, but some people will use flat washers to get more turn, especially the top.  I also tried trimming in the bottom bushing, so keeping it at the same height, but cutting the bottom sides off it from cylinder to a more conical shape, which also works very well in giving less resistance so you have a lot more turn.  Then trimming down the bottom of the top bushing by a mm or so, or rounding it off some from the top - sanding, or grip tape works well enough too, which then allows the kingpin nut to go on further, both reducing kingpin issues and increasing clearance.

* Edit:

There could almost be too much info here, but having the kingpin nut barely on is just not an option.  I used to skate with a guy who would finger tighten his kingpin on after every run, but if he skated too long in each run, there would be a chance he would have the kingpin fall off, which it did on occasion, sometimes causing him to eat it, which I thought was pretty easy to fix, but that is the way he did it.

Another guy would put the kingpin nut on upside down just engaging the first couple of threads with nyloc - yes it will go on if you force it - and then grind off the area sticking up, but again that is not such a good way to run it and it was still prone to catching, with minimal clearance on normal height bushings.

[Mbrimson88]

.

Without wanting to sound too repetitive, here are a couple of posts, the first one from a long time ago, the second one from not too long ago, both messing with bushings, but also showing the low head options, and reshaping the cylinders, etc.

Second one pics are a bit blurry (sorry) but you probably get the point anyway.

[CarcassToss]

I wish I had such good ankle control that I felt limited in turn by standard Indy bushings and needed to trim things down AND run conicals.

[JimmyFive]

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I’ve been playing with fire lately with how loose my 149s are. The kingpin nut is barely hanging by a thread and I know it’s going to fall off when I least expect it.

If watching Ben DeGros videos has taught me anything, it’s that I understand how trucks work through feel but definitely not through engineering. I’ve never shaved down bushings before, and was wondering if anyone knows which one - top or bottom barrel - would be smarter to shave down in order to allow for more nut security (heh) but without sacrificing turnability.

[close]

As others have said, that is how I have done it a lot in the past and it has worked as intended, but I will say I have cut bushings too much or messed some up in trial and error there too.

Before I get too deep in that, what is your current setup, eg stock bushings?  Changed bushings to anything else, or tried anything else, like softer bushings at all?

I usually go with old red 92 duro low tops in a conical shape (not cylinder) but have also run just the normal blue conical shape bushings in 92 as well, which gives me a little more stiffness while being able to run them with a whole lot more turn than what any other options can, but as much as this sounds like opposites, this is my thinking. 

When I tried softer bushings, they were way too mushy all round, so didn't actually give me back the control and turn that I needed.  In trying harder bushings, until they really wore in they were way too tight and I just couldn't skate how I usually would, so in trying to figure out the best overall option, trimming down the top bushing a bit, or then buying the aftermarket low heads when they came out, seemed to work best.

I still use the regular bushing washers, but some people will use flat washers to get more turn, especially the top.  I also tried trimming in the bottom bushing, so keeping it at the same height, but cutting the bottom sides off it from cylinder to a more conical shape, which also works very well in giving less resistance so you have a lot more turn.  Then trimming down the bottom of the top bushing by a mm or so, or rounding it off some from the top - sanding, or grip tape works well enough too, which then allows the kingpin nut to go on further, both reducing kingpin issues and increasing clearance.

* Edit:

There could almost be too much info here, but having the kingpin nut barely on is just not an option.  I used to skate with a guy who would finger tighten his kingpin on after every run, but if he skated too long in each run, there would be a chance he would have the kingpin fall off, which it did on occasion, sometimes causing him to eat it, which I thought was pretty easy to fix, but that is the way he did it.

Another guy would put the kingpin nut on upside down just engaging the first couple of threads with nyloc - yes it will go on if you force it - and then grind off the area sticking up, but again that is not such a good way to run it and it was still prone to catching, with minimal clearance on normal height bushings.

Good advice re using a flat top washer to loosen things up - this is what I do. You can also use a flat bottom washer to make things extra loose while still using the same bushing size and duro. The more cupped either washer is, the more restricted the bushing is in the bushing seat and the more energy/rebound is produced. Less rebound = looser trucks. I play around with different washer shapes and depths. RipTide has flat top and bottom washers as well as very cupped and restricting washers. It's surprising to see how much washer shapes make in terms of customising the ride.

If you have to shave off bushing height to allow the kingpin nut to bite then carefully sand away the top bushing from the bottom. I wouldn't advise touching the bottom bushing as that will change the height of your trucks and throw off geometry.

[Rick Trapasso]

Man, I really enjoyed my first sesh on my forged hollows.

Was on titaniums mainly for a while, and the weight (or lack thereof) is what started my madness train last time pushing me to thunders.

Feel like I should've just gone to these forged hollows for a little bit more weight.

My skating is so calibrated to indys, everything just felt normal, zero adjustment or warmup aside from dealing with brand new bushings.

[Mbrimson88]

I wish I had such good ankle control that I felt limited in turn by standard Indy bushings and needed to trim things down AND run conicals.

The funny thing is I also take down the kingpin too for most boards that have lower bushings, usually on well used traded in trucks from others, so my own trucks are definitely not loosey goosey like some of the people I know.

Having a stable setup that can still turn is most important to me, but also having kingpin clearance is essential, hence the trimming down the tops of bushings to get the kingpin down a little more, but it also works for any others wanting looser trucks too.

In this way I make trucks still work well past what some people would consider well past their best, as I put them on boards for people to use, mostly kids who don't grind a lot, but even to have the set up just work for anyone that wants to


On another note, I tried some Indy conical black 94 duro bushings that someone was done with, compressed and super squishy for them, but they actually worked well for me in one board I had not touched the kingpin on, so at normal height, kingpin nut flush with kingpin, they were stable and still turned.  From new they are crazily tight feeling, but on this well used set, they actually feel like solid stock bushings, so it is funny what sometimes comes back to me in that regard.

The conical bottoms definitely helped there though - makes for a lot more give all round.

[Vintagebody]

Bought some 149 Standards to test with my upped board size, 8,5. Indy stock bushings are way to soft as usual. What bushings you guys recommend for a 190 pounds guy for a medium stiffness?

[Boog]

Bought some 149 Standards to test with my upped board size, 8,5. Indy stock bushings are way to soft as usual. What bushings you guys recommend for a 190 pounds guy for a medium stiffness?

You could try the blues or the black Indy bushings. I weigh 185 and I was riding the blue conical for a while but they kinda started to feel too squishy when it was warmer out. Got the black now and ride them flush and they feel perfect. Stable when I need to go straight and pop but still have that good turn.

[pops]

Ace bushings work with Stage 4s?

[Rick Trapasso]

Bought some 149 Standards to test with my upped board size, 8,5. Indy stock bushings are way to soft as usual. What bushings you guys recommend for a 190 pounds guy for a medium stiffness?

I'd say try the hard black bushings

[smg1138]

Bought some 149 Standards to test with my upped board size, 8,5. Indy stock bushings are way to soft as usual. What bushings you guys recommend for a 190 pounds guy for a medium stiffness?

When I was 190 I really liked the Indy 96a yellow bushings. I found them to be perfect for medium tightness without having to crank them down very much thus keeping geometry in tact. Not a big fan of the 94a black because they're slightly taller and wider than the other Indy bushings for whatever reason. I'm down to 175 now and have been trying out the 92a blue Indy bushings which seem to be great for me in Indy standards.

[Frank and Fred]

Bought some 149 Standards to test with my upped board size, 8,5. Indy stock bushings are way to soft as usual. What bushings you guys recommend for a 190 pounds guy for a medium stiffness?

Break 'em in.

[Mbrimson88]

Bought some 149 Standards to test with my upped board size, 8,5. Indy stock bushings are way to soft as usual. What bushings you guys recommend for a 190 pounds guy for a medium stiffness?

You are probably going to get quite a few different answers here, as already seen above, all of which can and will work for specific people, so it is really down to personal preference, but also down to how the bushings break in.

I am about the same weight, for reference and this has been my experience on each option:

Stock bushings start off super mushy and almost feel like there is no give at all, which will often make me think that I have no interest in keeping them in a board, but to skate those same bushings after half a dozen sessions, they actually firm up a lot and work quite well for some things for me.  Note I did take them all apart and clean off all surfaces on a set of standard Indy trucks I set up recently, which helped a whole lot as there seemed to be a light coating of something on the hangers which made them even more mushy feeling right from go.

Then with aftermarket Indy bushings, specifically the blue 92, black 94 and yellow 96 variations, I have had different experiences on brand new ones, vs well worn in and almost mushed out old ones that came back to me from people I know.

The blue ones are similar to the stock ones once stock ones firm up, so still fairly free feeling, especially in the conical shape, not quite so much in the cylinder shape, but they are the closest small step up.

The black ones felt very solid and hard from new, almost too solid and hard, so I was not really keen, but to get some back that are well used, they actually feel really good, have nice resistance but can still turn just as much as the softer ones, especially the conical shape bushings, but also the cylinder were not at all stiff when I tried a friends board.

The yellow ones were even worse for being so stiff I had no business being on them from new, so those ones I did take off after a few laps and yet again the well used ones were very nice, stable, but still turned, everything working well on them.


Summary - stock bushings are soft and firm up, whereas aftermarket bushings are firm but soften up a lot as they wear in, cylinder will stay stiffer than conical shape, so it is almost like having five or more options up that ladder from stock through conical blue, cylinder blue, conical black, cylinder black, ending with conical yellow.

[Xen]

Ace bushings work with Stage 4s?

They could...but both the Stage IV top and bottom are taller than ACE's offerings, by a good amount and would probably really throw off the feeling of the indys (I picked up the indy stage IV bushings for use in Royals, no luck).

[gangleri]

I'm in need of new trucks, and I can't decide between standard and hollow indys. I've been riding standards pretty much my whole skate life because I love them and I'm afraid of change. I'm interested in trying the hollow standards because I want to keep the 55mm height, but I'm worried that the hollows won't last as long? I typically ride mine down to the axle and sometimes beyond. I feel like once you break through that hollow tube they will be toast. Does anyone have experience with this?

[logjammin]

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Ace bushings work with Stage 4s?

[close]

They could...but both the Stage IV top and bottom are taller than ACE's offerings, by a good amount and would probably really throw off the feeling of the indys (I picked up the indy stage IV bushings for use in Royals, no luck).

Not only do they work, I think they're required to unlock them. I find the stock red ones to not have any rebound or life to them. Shit, normal stage 11's come with bouncy lively stocks now, no idea why the 4's don't. So yeah, pop some ace mediums in and they'll turn even better than ace.

[Mbrimson88]

I'm in need of new trucks, and I can't decide between standard and hollow indys. I've been riding standards pretty much my whole skate life because I love them and I'm afraid of change. I'm interested in trying the hollow standards because I want to keep the 55mm height, but I'm worried that the hollows won't last as long? I typically ride mine down to the axle and sometimes beyond. I feel like once you break through that hollow tube they will be toast. Does anyone have experience with this?

I have seen both standard and hollow axles (and even ti axles for that matter) all down through axles and although they more often than not break at some point, there doesn't seem to be a more or less for all type situation.

Sure hollow axles when half way through show the open middle and at that point they are more likely to grind down a little faster, but I don't think they break any faster than standard axles, that being more down to the metal around the axle as well, with some trucks having almost nothing left, whereas others having a lot more meat round the hanger.

Transition skating might break a hanger faster than curb skating too, once it is down into axle, so when someone grinds through the heel side right beside the wheel, it is way more likely to snap off earlier than someone who skates curbs and grinds down the whole hanger right through, or more to the middle area, than right off at the end.

Got a lot of transition hangers in two pieces but not so many curb / slappy hangers in two pieces, from what people have brought in or kept for "show and tell" if that makes sense.

Do you go through the heel or other end, or more through the middle or truck as a whole?

[gangleri]

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I'm in need of new trucks, and I can't decide between standard and hollow indys. I've been riding standards pretty much my whole skate life because I love them and I'm afraid of change. I'm interested in trying the hollow standards because I want to keep the 55mm height, but I'm worried that the hollows won't last as long? I typically ride mine down to the axle and sometimes beyond. I feel like once you break through that hollow tube they will be toast. Does anyone have experience with this?

[close]

I have seen both standard and hollow axles (and even ti axles for that matter) all down through axles and although they more often than not break at some point, there doesn't seem to be a more or less for all type situation.

Sure hollow axles when half way through show the open middle and at that point they are more likely to grind down a little faster, but I don't think they break any faster than standard axles, that being more down to the metal around the axle as well, with some trucks having almost nothing left, whereas others having a lot more meat round the hanger.

Transition skating might break a hanger faster than curb skating too, once it is down into axle, so when someone grinds through the heel side right beside the wheel, it is way more likely to snap off earlier than someone who skates curbs and grinds down the whole hanger right through, or more to the middle area, than right off at the end.

Got a lot of transition hangers in two pieces but not so many curb / slappy hangers in two pieces, from what people have brought in or kept for "show and tell" if that makes sense.

Do you go through the heel or other end, or more through the middle or truck as a whole?

My current pair on my front truck its a little more towards the middle, but on my back truck its on the heelside like you said. I mostly skate ledges, but have done a lot of slappy crooks on this pair. I'm also down to the pivot cup on my front baseplate. I think I'll give the standard hollows a shot. Thanks

[Mbrimson88]

My current pair on my front truck its a little more towards the middle, but on my back truck its on the heelside like you said. I mostly skate ledges, but have done a lot of slappy crooks on this pair. I'm also down to the pivot cup on my front baseplate. I think I'll give the standard hollows a shot. Thanks

At least being the same everything in terms of height, turn, etc just a little lighter, you can have the best of both there.

That way you will know which you prefer too.

[Plan9Customs]

I'm in need of new trucks, and I can't decide between standard and hollow indys. I've been riding standards pretty much my whole skate life because I love them and I'm afraid of change. I'm interested in trying the hollow standards because I want to keep the 55mm height, but I'm worried that the hollows won't last as long? I typically ride mine down to the axle and sometimes beyond. I feel like once you break through that hollow tube they will be toast. Does anyone have experience with this?

They hold up about the same. I’ve had standard and hollows that were well over half way through the axles and rode them till they folded or broke. Both gave up the ghost about the same time(3/4 through the axle). I did see a set where someone ground completely through the axle and got a few days after that before they died.

[Obijuan91]

Is it true that Indy’s feel the best at 149 and above? And if soo how come they feel so damn good on a 8.25 and like whatever on a 8.5? Just experienced this today for the first time and they felt so stable I guess is the word

[Vintagebody]

Makes sense. I mostly skate Thunders, but recently stepped up to a 8,5 deck, and got some 149 indys with it. I do have some indy 144s, but I kinda dont like them, which is why I skate Thunder, mostly. The 149 indys however, feel great! They also seem to lock in much better than smaller indys.

[JimmyFive]

Ace bushings work with Stage 4s?

Not quite. They're a touch too small, both cone and barrel. The stock bushings are good - they firm up after a while. I'm running Riptide KranK 90a bushings in mine nowadays though.

[Boog]

Is it true that Indy’s feel the best at 149 and above? And if soo how come they feel so damn good on a 8.25 and like whatever on a 8.5? Just experienced this today for the first time and they felt so stable I guess is the word

I skate 8.5 with 149 and can confirm they feel great especially with harder bushings. I have also skated 149 on 8.25 and might actually like that better tbh.

[Rick Trapasso]

Is it true that Indy’s feel the best at 149 and above? And if soo how come they feel so damn good on a 8.25 and like whatever on a 8.5? Just experienced this today for the first time and they felt so stable I guess is the word

It sounds like you just prefer slightly wider trucks than your board. Which is pretty common. I run 149s on 8.38 decks, and many people run them on 8.25 decks.

[Boog]

Expand Quote

Is it true that Indy’s feel the best at 149 and above? And if soo how come they feel so damn good on a 8.25 and like whatever on a 8.5? Just experienced this today for the first time and they felt so stable I guess is the word

[close]

It sounds like you just prefer slightly wider trucks than your board. Which is pretty common. I run 149s on 8.38 decks, and many people run them on 8.25 decks.

Yeah that makes since. I have a couple 8.3 decks on ice I look forward to skating.

[rawbertson.]

Is it true that Indy’s feel the best at 149 and above? And if soo how come they feel so damn good on a 8.25 and like whatever on a 8.5? Just experienced this today for the first time and they felt so stable I guess is the word

I could see why people would say that because if you are running a skinny Cast Plate Indy it could seem really tippy. I skated it like this 139 standards for years and I didnt mind it at all. sitting on 56mm Bones STFs