Financial Crisis 2: Electric Boogaloo

[S.E.]

Ron Paul!

[grimcity]

[Sleazy]

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I am afraid to check my 401K. We not only have a troubled economy but then there is the deficit crisis. We need to curb the wasteful spending of our tax dollars and the fraud associated with unearned entitlements. I really hope we make it out of this.

[close]

i hope by "curb the wasteful spending" you mean ending the wars in iraq and afghanistan. the reason for the credit downgrade and the subsequent stock market dive is that there was absolutely no provisions for revenue increases in the debt ceiling "compromise." s&p the company that downgraded US credit said so:

"Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act..."

the US cannot possibly begin to balance it's debt without revenue increases (most likely from the under-taxed upper class and the nearly untaxed corporate sector) or by cutting defense spending, both of which are totally off the table for republicans. on the other hand, spending tends to create jobs if it's done in a smart fashion. things like infrastructure creation improves the efficiency of commerce, lowers prices and creates jobs that are unable to be outsourced. if you look at countries that have fared ok during the global recession it's places like germany that have had a balanced approach and weren't afraid to spend in order to create growth and expand their revenue base.

[close]

At this point, how about we just STOP spending money. ? How are the workers who will repair and rebuild our infrastructure going to be paid? If your referring to state and federal workers who normally work those types of jobs then its usually done by tax payers money....which in turn is the government spending money. ?  Stop the wars, stop spending, stop blaming the libs, the GOP, the tea partiers, and get to fucking work on a plan thats going to fix this shit or lifes going to get really fucking gay.

[close]

If the "Tea Party" weren't currently writing the narrative coming out of the Hill, we'd probably have seen some spending, but you have to look at history and exactly what you're asking for.

Stop spending: on what? Defense as mentioned is a good start since it's actually on the budget, and we're using too much of that money for overpriced privatized services in the theater of war. Outside of that, if we cut domestic spending, that means more unemployment (just see attacks on teachers, and other public-employee unions). Cuts in education, healthcare, and pretty much everything that makes the average American comfortable result in job loss, loss of job security, and increases the tax burden on the non-rich.

People have different takes on what brought us out of the Great Depression, but one thing that can't be argued is the benefit that government jobs and government contracted jobs did for people's personal income and the economy itself. Currently, we have major infrastructure problems... from roads to bridges falling down, to potential investments in things like light rails (something my neocon Governor decided not to engage in, as it was Obama's plan, even though business owners in NOLA and baton Rouge where overwhelmingly supportive of it).

Anyway, get some revenue generation by repealing the previous administration's tax cuts applied to people making $250k or $500k, or even $1 mill, and take away subsidies for oil companies. I don't know how we justify paying an overwhelmingly profitable industry that we wind up paying again at the pump.

I'm also an advocate of some degrees of protectionism. Burn up the free trade agreements, bring back pre-Reagan level import tariffs, give "American" corporations penalties for operating out of mailboxes in the Cayman Islands, and give them incentives for hiring domestically.

Back to the government spending... it all depends how how the money is used. Creating jobs that relate to infrastructure means more taxpayers to generate revenue, and the better infrastructure, entitlements, health services, and everything that come with that make for a stronger middle class.

Over the past 30 years, we've been told that we need to let the mythical "free market" decide, but the free market's decisions have been pretty fucking fucked. It makes for great bumper stickers, but there's no such thing as a free market, and all of its "decisions" are antithetical to human beings (as the non-human market has no allegiance to country or people).

I agree that there need to be cuts, but very discriminate ones. The US needs to spend money here to make money (as with any investment), but the far right's plan seems to compete with sweatshop-riddled markets by turning the US into one. Well, maybe not sweatshops, but I have heard them talk about a "service based" economy, which simply makes no fucking sense whatsoever. The US was founded on industry, so the government needs to take steps at keeping and revitalizing industry (manus, textiles, etc) rather can cut the fuck out of everything.

You can pay your mortgage by cutting out your car payment, but then you lose the car.

it's a great plan but the democrats are too big of pussys to do this on their own. there needs to be pressure from the left for something other than the environment and anti war causes... there needs to be some grass roots ralleys and the dems need to stop being such big pussys about everything.

[grimcity]

^ ...agreed 100% man. The "super committee" they put together is a perfect example of what you're talking about... six Republicans that have signed Grover Norquist's insane no-new-tax pledge (and have already established they are all against revenue increases in any form), while the Dems have two conservadems that came from a finance committee, so that whole thing is fucked before it even started.

If the House dems concede any more, they might as well run as Republicans.

[morbidly obese tortoise]

My Netflix bill went up. What gives!

It's obviously Obama's fault.

[David]

The left in the US is a giant, incoherent mess.

There should be a Party of The Invisible Hand.


"a non-human market has no allegiance to country or people".

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"Going back into recession now would be scary, because we don't have the resources or the will to respond, and our initial starting point is such a point of weakness," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics. "It won't feel like a new recession. It would likely feel like a depression."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/news/economy/double_dip_recession_economy/index.htm?iid=HP_LN

[Mouth]

Felonious Monk knows what time it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRmZ9zH-mYM&feature=player_embedded#at=149