skate industry downsizing... podium blackbox etc..

[I SUCK!]

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Sorry man, but your argument is based on some BS. The quality is the same.
All the wood and glue is from the same place and I've been to Watson laminates, the dudes working there are just as mexican as the dudes that work in our factory.

[close]

We can argue about the quality all day long. That isn't the point. Please tell me why it is that Tod Swank, who is just as big as you, can make his boards in America, and you can't?

Not sure how Tum Yeto runs their business or if all of their boards are made in the US, but our companies are indeed different sizes.

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The cars brand comparison is so far off base it's ridiculous?

[close]

No it isn't. Mercedes uses top quality products and does most of their manufacturing in developed countries. They are larger than you. They are profitable.

Mercedes is a luxury car company that sells to the rich! Their cars are drastically different than other car brands which means if they can create the demand they can charge what they want. Therefore they can afford to get their cars made wherever fits their marketing or business model.

How can that be compared to skateboard companies where everyone is selling a very similar product?
You have to stay competitive with pricing in order to sell anything. Therefore you have to get your products made where it makes sense to be able to offer those prices and have enough money for overhead and marketing to create demand.

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Back to Zumiez pricing. Not sure how you don't get this yet, but a shop's retail prices is not up to us. It's set by what people are willing to pay. That's basic economics.

[close]

Well I'm glad to see you know some of the basics about economics, but actually your prices do directly affect theirs. The concept here is supply and demand -- not just demand. The real point is that your boards are expensive everywhere.

Back to the basic economics, again; "prices are set by what people are willing to pay."
If we sold board for $15 and kids are willing to pay $80, you bet the shop is going to charge $80.
We offer a ton of discounts, therefore our boards are some of the most affordable boards offered by any branded company.
People actually told you this in past debates where you were ranting the same garbage, but you refuse to acknowledge it because then you'll have to actually come to terms with the fact that your argument is WEAK.

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Regarding your comment on the cost of living.
We're not talking about Kenya, we're talking about Mexico. The workers are paid in accordance with the labor laws of mexico. Those labor laws coincide with cost of living in Mexico not the US. Why would they be, they're not paying for food or rent in the US.

[close]

Okay, Kenya was just an example. We can talk about Mexico if you want. The standard of living in Mexico SUCKS -- so bad, in fact, that millions of Mexicans flee the country to come to the US each year to make less than minimum wage. Look at the standard of living of a person living in the US on minimum wage. It's not a living. The conditions are deplorable. But to those living on Mexico's minimum wage, they risk their lives to try to get it. People like your workers are risking their lives just to gain the lifestyle of the convenience store clerk down the street.

That's called wage slavery, no matter what "the labor laws" say. Fuck you.

And to the people who are up in arms about my mathematical error, I am sincerely very sorry. Please find it in your kindest of hearts to forgive me for that. I got so caught up in my example that I thought the numbers were 20 and 25. Again, please forgive me.

People from Mexico are coming to the US to find work not because of how much they'll get paid. There simply is not enough work in Mexico for the population. Visit mexico then write your thesis, cause you have no idea what you're talking about.
It's impressive how you could be so far off base on every point, yet you think you're killing it.

At 17 you can be 'smart with potential', but you're only capable of retaining actual knowledge by experience.
Start a company, make some crap, pay employees, go through some tough times on your own, visit Kenya and Mexico and I guarantee even YOU will change.

[Pete]

hilarious to see this shit going down. jamie thomas, a well established human being, and some 16 or 17 year old little kid trying to piss everyone off. and succeeding.

[Canuck]

I'm praying that skateboarding becomes what it was in via 1990's

been there done that... let's do something new in the 2010s

[steezus_christ]

Hey Jamie.....enough man. You're supposed to be the smart, mature, 'adult' here, yet your sitting there thinking you're schooling a 17 year old on the internet?

First of all Black Box could afford to pay every single employee more money, if you say different you're lying. How much loot went into your bank account last year? Six figures at the very least, probably A LOT more. Lets cut your check in half, come on, you'd still be rich, and share that money with the rest of the employees, regardless of their nationality. Ohh wait... equal pay for the amount of work people do is called socialism right?

Instead we should have assholes, like you, who do very little work yet get the large piece of the pie. Fuck the people who actually make the products that you're getting rich off of..... we can pay them what ever the 'labor laws' dictate because we know that no government would ever put it's citizens in danger or let them live in poverty.

I'm not going to act like I'm some economic genius here, fuck I have trouble with spelling and grammar. But it doesn't take a genius to know that the heads of companies make lots of money and the lowly employees get stuck with a big cock sandwich. Doesn't matter the company or the industry, the top makes all the money and throws just enough crumbs to the peasants to keep them moving.

[I SUCK!]

Hey Jamie.....enough man. You're supposed to be the smart, mature, 'adult' here, yet your sitting there thinking you're schooling a 17 year old on the internet?

First of all Black Box could afford to pay every single employee more money, if you say different you're lying. How much loot went into your bank account last year? Six figures at the very least, probably A LOT more. Lets cut your check in half, come on, you'd still be rich, and share that money with the rest of the employees, regardless of their nationality. Ohh wait... equal pay for the amount of work people do is called socialism right?

Instead we should have assholes, like you, who do very little work yet get the large piece of the pie. Fuck the people who actually make the products that you're getting rich off of..... we can pay them what ever the 'labor laws' dictate because we know that no government would ever put it's citizens in danger or let them live in poverty.

I'm not going to act like I'm some economic genius here, fuck I have trouble with spelling and grammar. But it doesn't take a genius to know that the heads of companies make lots of money and the lowly employees get stuck with a big cock sandwich. Doesn't matter the company or the industry, the top makes all the money and throws just enough crumbs to the peasants to keep them moving.

Newtons accusations/claims are false and it's all open for debate, so I'm in.

...but as it turns out, you don't know you shit about me.
you can assume all day long, but we're paying everyone involved in our camp as much as we can.
and just so you know, I make less now than I did as 'just' a pro skateboarder. It ain't about money, it's about providing a future for me my family and our employees. If somehow all that could make sense off of getting paid in chickens it'd be cool by me.

...and the part about me doing "very little work yet get the large piece of the pie". I work my shit to the bone and only sleep about 4-5 hours a night just to keep it all going, so you're trippin.

In the end, as an owner, I obviously have the most to gain, but that comes with the most to lose.

[Dr Newton]

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The cars brand comparison is so far off base it's ridiculous?

[close]

No it isn't. Mercedes uses top quality products and does most of their manufacturing in developed countries. They are larger than you. They are profitable.

[close]

Mercedes is a luxury car company that sells to the rich! Their cars are drastically different than other car brands which means if they can create the demand they can charge what they want. Therefore they can afford to get their cars made wherever fits their marketing or business model.

How can that be compared to skateboard companies where everyone is selling a very similar product?
You have to stay competitive with pricing in order to sell anything. Therefore you have to get your products made where it makes sense to be able to offer those prices and have enough money for overhead and marketing to create demand.

Hey Mr. Business Guru, you are a luxury skateboard company that "sells to the rich!" Every industry has a class of people that is willing to spend a lot of money and a class of people that isn't. In the auto industry, the big spenders get Mercedes and the other guys get Chevrolets. In the skateboard industry, the rich get $70 graphic skateboards, and people that watch what they spend get $45 shop decks.

They also do not "create demand" for anything. Demand for luxury cars is just there, and it is elastic. There is no drastic difference between a BMW, a Mercedes, and even another luxury car like a Cadillac or even a Volvo. If Mercedes hikes their prices for $100,000 a car, they won't sell the same amount. Status-oriented yuppies operating on a budget are just going to get a $30,000 BMW instead. There are also numerous substitutions for these cars. It is not unlike any other industry.

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Back to Zumiez pricing. Not sure how you don't get this yet, but a shop's retail prices is not up to us. It's set by what people are willing to pay. That's basic economics.

[close]

Well I'm glad to see you know some of the basics about economics, but actually your prices do directly affect theirs. The concept here is supply and demand -- not just demand. The real point is that your boards are expensive everywhere.

[close]

Back to the basic economics, again; "prices are set by what people are willing to pay."
If we sold board for $15 and kids are willing to pay $80, you bet the shop is going to charge $80.
We offer a ton of discounts, therefore our boards are some of the most affordable boards offered by any branded company.
People actually told you this in past debates where you were ranting the same garbage, but you refuse to acknowledge it because then you'll have to actually come to terms with the fact that your argument is WEAK.

Jesus. It's like you just can't get this through your stupid skull. I'll try to dumb this concept down for you even further:



Refer to the graph, and then weigh it against your own example. If you were selling boards at $15 to shops, hypothetically, then they could maybe sell 100 for $20 each. As price increases, demand decreases, so if they decided to sell a board for $80 in the face of stiff competition and a slowing economy, they would probably sell about one board. At $20 each, the shop would make a profit of $500. At $80 each, the shop would make a profit of about $65. Which would you rather have, $500, or $65? Obviously $500. Therefore, a low price makes sense for most businesses. This is why Walmart makes so much money. I somehow doubt that Zumiez is making 500% margins on decks or something with all of the competition from all sides in this market. Therefore, your price directly plays into theirs. Believe it or not, it is in their best interests to make the price as low as they can.

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Regarding your comment on the cost of living.
We're not talking about Kenya, we're talking about Mexico. The workers are paid in accordance with the labor laws of mexico. Those labor laws coincide with cost of living in Mexico not the US. Why would they be, they're not paying for food or rent in the US.

[close]

Okay, Kenya was just an example. We can talk about Mexico if you want. The standard of living in Mexico SUCKS -- so bad, in fact, that millions of Mexicans flee the country to come to the US each year to make less than minimum wage. Look at the standard of living of a person living in the US on minimum wage. It's not a living. The conditions are deplorable. But to those living on Mexico's minimum wage, they risk their lives to try to get it. People like your workers are risking their lives just to gain the lifestyle of the convenience store clerk down the street.

That's called wage slavery, no matter what "the labor laws" say. Fuck you.

And to the people who are up in arms about my mathematical error, I am sincerely very sorry. Please find it in your kindest of hearts to forgive me for that. I got so caught up in my example that I thought the numbers were 20 and 25. Again, please forgive me.

[close]

People from Mexico are coming to the US to find work not because of how much they'll get paid. There simply is not enough work in Mexico for the population. Visit mexico then write your thesis, cause you have no idea what you're talking about.
It's impressive how you could be so far off base on every point, yet you think you're killing it.

At 17 you can be 'smart with potential', but you're only capable of retaining actual knowledge by experience.
Start a company, make some crap, pay employees, go through some tough times on your own, visit Kenya and Mexico and I guarantee even YOU will change.

I mean, aside from the personal attack, what is the argument here? Are you claiming that the Mexican minimum wage is high enough, and that the people living on it aren't one paycheck away from being dead? This is exactly the same argument slave owners gave before and during the Civil War to justify slavery.

"You're only capable of actual knowledge by experience." That's a real gem, sir. I'm glad to know that your experiences skateboarding in Mexico and Spain made you an expert on the socio-economics there. Have you ever heard of a book?

[steezus_christ]

and only sleep about 4-5 hours a night

You know, if you weren't arguing on internet message boards at midnight like a teenager maybe you could get some sleep... What's next, gonna go update your facebook? Pfffff.

[Al Bania]

Hey Mr. Business Guru, you are a luxury skateboard company that "sells to the rich!" Every industry has a class of people that is willing to spend a lot of money and a class of people that isn't. In the auto industry, the big spenders get Mercedes and the other guys get Chevrolets. In the skateboard industry, the rich get $70 graphic skateboards, and people that watch what they spend get $45 shop decks.

Who the fuck pays $70 for a deck?

The same brats that get benz's given to them?

Part of the life experience that no graph can ever tell you is the part of the informed consumer.
They should know damn well that shouldnt pay $70 for a deck.
Thats the important part of a local, skater operated shop.  To teach the seeds about what they are spending their/or mom and dad's money on.

In the same way that large chain shops like Zumiez gets discounts for bulk ordering (and then charges a rediculous markup), smaller skateboarder owned shops should get a comparable diiscount (some do for not carrying blanks) so they can compete with the larger shops but actually charge $55 for a deck (what they should be), and still be around when things go bust.

[kamltoe]

Have you ever heard of a book?

that's the problem here Dr.
Your point only sounds good on paper. it only makes sense in a logical vacuum. your points are valid, but only if everyone in business agreed to play by the same rules and respect the graph. in the real world of business, you'll find that no matter how many graphs you have or how obvious the rules are, people tend to do what makes them the most money no matter what the consequences. I may not agree with everything Jamies done over the course of his career, but he has definitely been there and pushed skateboardings landscape in directions no one saw coming. many debate if that's a good thing, but whatevs.  trust me, you sound like you came straight from a theoretical econimics class. key word, theoretical. it doesn't work like that. if you can pay your employees a fair wage and still have enough room to even think about preparing for the future for both you and them, you're doing it as good as it can be done right now. for real.

k

[I SUCK!]

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and only sleep about 4-5 hours a night

[close]

You know, if you weren't arguing on internet message boards at midnight like a teenager maybe you could get some sleep... What's next, gonna go update your facebook? Pfffff.

nah, I update facebook in the morning.

[I SUCK!]

Hey Mr. Business Guru, you are a luxury skateboard company that "sells to the rich!" Every industry has a class of people that is willing to spend a lot of money and a class of people that isn't. In the auto industry, the big spenders get Mercedes and the other guys get Chevrolets. In the skateboard industry, the rich get $70 graphic skateboards, and people that watch what they spend get $45 shop decks.

They also do not "create demand" for anything. Demand for luxury cars is just there, and it is elastic. There is no drastic difference between a BMW, a Mercedes, and even another luxury car like a Cadillac or even a Volvo. If Mercedes hikes their prices for $100,000 a car, they won't sell the same amount. Status-oriented yuppies operating on a budget are just going to get a $30,000 BMW instead. There are also numerous substitutions for these cars. It is not unlike any other industry.

Jesus. It's like you just can't get this through your stupid skull. I'll try to dumb this concept down for you even further:



Refer to the graph, and then weigh it against your own example. If you were selling boards at $15 to shops, hypothetically, then they could maybe sell 100 for $20 each. As price increases, demand decreases, so if they decided to sell a board for $80 in the face of stiff competition and a slowing economy, they would probably sell about one board. At $20 each, the shop would make a profit of $500. At $80 each, the shop would make a profit of about $65. Which would you rather have, $500, or $65? Obviously $500. Therefore, a low price makes sense for most businesses. This is why Walmart makes so much money. I somehow doubt that Zumiez is making 500% margins on decks or something with all of the competition from all sides in this market. Therefore, your price directly plays into theirs. Believe it or not, it is in their best interests to make the price as low as they can.

I mean, aside from the personal attack, what is the argument here? Are you claiming that the Mexican minimum wage is high enough, and that the people living on it aren't one paycheck away from being dead? This is exactly the same argument slave owners gave before and during the Civil War to justify slavery.

"You're only capable of actual knowledge by experience." That's a real gem, sir. I'm glad to know that your experiences skateboarding in Mexico and Spain made you an expert on the socio-economics there. Have you ever heard of a book?

Thanks for the lesson Newton, that graph example was amazing!!!
I'll try and work on getting this all through my head and hopefully I'll be more prepared for your next barrage of BS.

[H8R part 4]

Hey Jamie.....enough man. You're supposed to be the smart, mature, 'adult' here, yet your sitting there thinking you're schooling a 17 year old on the internet?

First of all Black Box could afford to pay every single employee more money, if you say different you're lying. How much loot went into your bank account last year? Six figures at the very least, probably A LOT more. Lets cut your check in half, come on, you'd still be rich, and share that money with the rest of the employees, regardless of their nationality. Ohh wait... equal pay for the amount of work people do is called socialism right?

Instead we should have assholes, like you, who do very little work yet get the large piece of the pie. Fuck the people who actually make the products that you're getting rich off of..... we can pay them what ever the 'labor laws' dictate because we know that no government would ever put it's citizens in danger or let them live in poverty.

I'm not going to act like I'm some economic genius here, fuck I have trouble with spelling and grammar. But it doesn't take a genius to know that the heads of companies make lots of money and the lowly employees get stuck with a big cock sandwich. Doesn't matter the company or the industry, the top makes all the money and throws just enough crumbs to the peasants to keep them moving.

dumbest shit i've ever read.

so you're telling me that you'll...
 1.  bust your ass skating and stacking some cheddar
 2.  start a company
 3.  scout skaters to put on the team
 4.  paying those skaters a nice salary to do something they love
 5.  spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on advertising and pushing your brand.   
 6.  taking the profits from the 1st company to start a 2nd company
 7.  employing even more people
 8.  spending all the money you had to, to make the first company successful all over again
 9.  then taking the profits from both companies to start a 3rd company
10. again, employing more people
11. spending more money
12. finding more skaters
13. then starting a 4th company
14. employing even more people
15. find more skaters etc etc etc.

all that said, you're actually going to sit there and tell me you would do all that work, spend all your money, pay out all those riders, then pay yourself just enough to get by?  riiiiiight....i almost believe you.      
 

the best part about all this is that you kiddies are sitting there telling someone whos proven to be a successful businessman that hes doing it all wrong. 
when you accomplish anything nearly as impressive as he has, feel free to talk as much shit as you want. 
til then, stay in school, gain some life experience, get a clue and have a nice cold glass of shut the fuck up.       

[Silent Bob.]

It's all very well and laudable talking about the finer points of employment ethics but it's really not the time. The simple fact is that the world economy is going to hell in a handcart. Only the efficient will survive. It's harsh having to lay some people off, but if by not doing so you go bust then your whole wprkforce is out of a job. Harsh to say but sometimes the survival of most employees outweighs the welfare of a few; I know, I've had to lay people off before but sometimes that's all you can do and the best you can do is treat them as well as possible, give them as much warning as possible, good references etc. I think the china wood issue is a dead one at this point - the real danger is true skate companies being pushed out by big corps mass producing pieces of shit for uninformed parents to foist on their kids. My hope is as many people as possible buy based on who owns the companies. If prices are close support skater owned. As for people giving away proddy without consent - isn't that basically just stealing and very different to a company hooking up a deserving skater with stuff - which is all I've ever seen happen and is to be encouraged

[kneebone]

JT won the Entrepreneur of the Year award from Ernst & Young and someone's trying to teach him about business via the slap MB???

[Silent Bob.]

hope I'm not coming across like that as I agree with you; dude's lived it & real experience > theory!

[skeet skeet, skate street]

I really like the Slap boards for a lot of reasons, but it's very frustrating when people get on here with intentions of trying to piss everyone off.  ruins it for everyone.

Jamie - Keep doing what you're doing.  For every hater trying to call you out, there are 20 guys repping your products and not expecting you to create a Utopian commune in Carlsbad.

Dr Newton - why don't you and all your hippie friends move to Kenya where you can be free of the capitalist tyrants trying to hold you down?  You guys can find some land and start a farm and barter with nearby communities.  Eventually, you can trade your guavas for a skateboard and share it with your dreadlocked buddies.  you guys can all make sure nobody has just anymore than anyone else.  There'd be no more competition and everyone would be blissfully broke.  no matter who shows more initiative!

In fact, we could migrate your principals to skateboarding too.  fuck yeah!  nobody is learning backside noseblunts until we can all do them frontside!  slow down chris cole.  slow down.

[Baby Rabies]

"JT vs. Newton: When 2 Libras Argue"


*grabs popcorn*

[JeffGilmer]

1. I can't believe you think Jamie hasn't busted his ass from day one to get his companies where they are today.  Unless your Bill Gates or Steve jobs, owning your own company means your going to be working harder than anyone.  I don't know Jamie personally, but he seems like the kind of guy who would be on the line packing boxes if they got really backed up that sort of stuff.

2. From someone who worked in the wherehouse at South Shore I can tell you I busted my ass all day everyday, wherehouse workers are usually the hardest working people in the company.  I was at work pulling orders before sales were even on the phone pushing tail devils, and I was packing orders sometimes hours after sales had gone home for the day.  And this was full time and going to college after work every night.  I have visited some of the distro's in Vista and stuff and they seem a little more laid back in that department, but when theres work to be done I'm sure the dudes get it done.

3. $70 bucks a deck seriously?  Every legit shop here, its $50 a deck whatever company doesn't matter.  There is no market for luxury decks, yeh element and dwindle may try, but I have never seen anyone skating a fiberlight or whatever the new trendy expensive deck is.

4. Dr Newton give up.  "as price increases, demand decreases" there is a point where price and demand will be the highest grossing and thats what your looking for.  Yeh you can sell 100 decks for $20, but you could also sell say 50 decks for $50.  So pricing things as low as possible isn't always going to make you more money.  Also there is something called perceived value, if you sell something dirt cheap people are going assume its poor quality, which is generally true.  Yeh I could buy 3 blanks for the price of 1 Real, but I'm going with the Real everytime because they are quality, and they don't lose their pop in 1 day or snap super easy.  And shops do generally price things at what they can sell them for not based on how much its costing them because wholesale deck prices fluctate company to company like they might get a Habitat for $36 and a Krooked for $33, but they are both being sold for $50.  Companies like Zumiez are marking up way more than mom and pop shops which you would think it would be the other way around, but its not.  Zumiez sells a deck for like $50 and so do mom and pop, but Zumiez orders 100's of the same deck directly from the companies, while mom and pop are paying more to buy them from a distro like South Shore or Eastern because they only need 1 or 2 of each brand on hand.  So in your theory Zumiez could sell way more units if they priced them cheaper, because they get them cheaper, yet they don't because they know they can get $50 a pop no matter how cheap they get them.

[turdlifetx]

gilmer you are a person i think you need to go back to college and learn how to spell warehouse before you even claim to have worked harder that anyone at southshore all you did was bitch all day and leave early to shoot photo's because real photographers couldn't be around that day. everyone at southshore busts there ass everyday my friend and you definatly were not one of them.

-ext 121

[I SUCK!]

...sorry gilmer, but that's a K/O!!

[Epic]

how can people argue with someone thats proven to be a talented business man, won entreprenuer of the year, and continues to kick ass at a pro skateing career, all the while having a family to raise and a wife to please.  Come on people.

[Guile]

this thread is fucked.









*continues to watch*

[skatemore,man]

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Hey man, i can see what you're saying, maybe we're not even on the same page here. When i'm talking about "bros" i'm talking about my homies. If ive got something good to give, i'm going to hook my people the fuck up, so long as they're not being shit bags.
I'm fuckin wicked out of the loop with this shit i guess, status/image mean absolutely nothing to me. I just skate with my friends and if i meet new people, then fuck yeah, but if not, i could really care less. i've been skating for half of my life at this point, that's what it's about, skating more.

[close]

Just to clear this up one last time: I am not talking about giving your personal property away to others. I am not talking about making pro skaters pay for the decks they ride. I am not even talking about getting rid of product tosses at demos. This is what I mean:

Let's say you have a small hamburger restaurant with one employee. You sell 20 hamburgers every week, and the total costs of running your business including all expenses is $200 per week. To break even, you have to sell each hamburger for $10, but you sell them for $15 instead so that you can make a living. You end up making $100 a week profit on that. But soon, your employee, some stupid teenage kid, starts giving five of those hamburgers away each week to his gay little friends. [In the skate industry, these gay little friends are the 'hipsters' -- dead weight losers that oftentimes do not even skate.] This leaves you with only fifteen hamburgers to sell each week, and with that fifteen you still have to come up with your $300 to stay open and make a living. To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.

So what is fair here? Should the teenager's gay little friends get free hamburgers, while everyone else is forced to pay $20? Or would it be better if everyone just payed $15?

I think the dead weight should be gotten rid of. That dead weight is in the "bro system." "All other industries" are not throwing money down the toilet, making their customers pay for it, and then bitching when the consumer goes somewhere else [blank decks]. In fact, no other industries except for governments are nearly this buerocratic. I know this is confusing to a lot of you, and for some it is probably even intimidating, but you have to look at things in these terms sometimes.

Again... this is ridiculous. it's fucking skateboarding.

Economics/money flow isn't a hard thing to understand and i'm not even going to get into it, because really, i don't want to read the numbers or charts that you're dropping all around like they're some new, hot bag of shit.  again this is about skateboarding, on an esoteric level. skaters need to support skaters, period, and i don't mean by stealing stuff from the shop. I mean by providing reasonable prices, a positive atmosphere, good times, and skateboarding. i've never paid less than $45 or more than $52.50 for a pro deck with grip. I worked in a shop around 2001-2002 and the distribution catalogs all listed the shop price at $35-40. That shit doesn't seem to have changed a whole lot.... maybe i'm wrong.
 
Yes indeed, the market is completely over saturated, but it's certainly not due to companies hooking homies or "bros" up with product and jobs. It revolves around too much product being pushed into the dead weight mainstream, which truly exists to be a non-skateboarding community. And while this brings money into the "industry," it's expanding the "industry" and allowing for the good shit, the family shit, to get shot down. there's no fucking way a shoe company like Kastel (rip) could compete with Nike or a local clothing company compete with LRG. Shit or PFC competing with Hubba.

Again, not everyone invests their soul in skateboarding.
skateboarding is about tasting the flavor of life with your friends man, on every level.

[Al Bania]

Yes indeed, the market is completely over saturated, but it's certainly not due to companies hooking homies or "bros" up with product and jobs. It revolves around too much product being pushed into the dead weight mainstream, which truly exists to be a non-skateboarding community. And while this brings money into the "industry," it's expanding the "industry" and allowing for the good shit, the family shit, to get shot down. there's no fucking way a shoe company like Kastel (rip) could compete with Nike or a local clothing company compete with LRG. Shit or PFC competing with Hubba.

Again, not everyone invests their soul in skateboarding.
skateboarding is about tasting the flavor of life with your friends man, on every level.

truth, but why put Hubba up there with Nike and LRG?

last I checked, Hubba was mostly owned by Tony Vitello, son of Fausto, dudeman is heir to one of the longest running skate co. families going.

[yall84]

After reading what I wrote I realize my mind wandered very off topic, sorry.

I've scanned through the pages on here. I am not highly involved with the industry, only worked at a skate shop for 2 years but then left because I was getting in trouble for allowing artists to draw in the bathrooms and for drawing on kids boards during work instead of receiving the latest hot fashion shirt...

I think pricing is important but so is educating the customer and selling a quality product. I definately respect the companies that have been around for a very long time... it shows they are doing something right.

As for companies downsizing that's been happening all over the world. Only the strong survive...

I've only been to one Zumiez, I didn't really pay attention to prices but more to the fact that I couldn't relate that well to the people that worked there. Sure I wanted to get with the hot chick who was pissed she was still working at a skate shop, but I still felt out of place even though the store had so much to offer with free mags, free dvds, a couch and videos playing and a quite interesting/creative atmosphere. The fact it was inside a mall kinda weirded me out, but thats my social anxiety kicking in. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Zumiez pay commission to shop employees?

Where the fuck am I going with this... I'm not sure. I've contemplated starting my own shop in the future but now I don't know if its what I should do with my life. There are already 2 shops in the area so is it worth me to take a risk and get myself into debt to spend so much time in one area competing with 2 well established shops?

Skateboarding will survive whatever it is put through. I see claims of let it die out again, but I feel that won't happen. Kids are producing their own films and out editing art school graduates. There is a huge creative field in skateboarding but I do feel there is a lack of business sense. I have made money in the past through the selling of hand drawn boards and spray painted tees, selling dvd copies of videos, selling a deck here and there, but never enough to support a lifestyle... but thats all up to the drive inside of me.

To get your shit on a world wide recognition level like the top companies have done, now that's some amazing shit right there. It shows your product is respected and sought after. I don't know the finances of big companies or if they are profitable but I suspect there are enough shops that sell enough product to keep this ball rolling.

Instead of constantly contradicting each other what can skate companies do to increase the spark in skateboarding or is that even a necessity? Will it just keep growing on its own? Am I just totally unaware of the competition between companies?

Like let's say companies stopped making videos, teams stopped traveling, the berrics shut down, thrasher peaced out, what would skateboarding be like then? Would we enjoy it as much?

I've gotten to a point where I realize the only thing I can contribute to skateboarding is to try and be a guide for younger skateboarders to keep having fun with it.  This post is probably pretty unnecessary as my mind tends to wander quite often, but whatever, take it or leave it.

[Dr Newton]

HAHAHA.... so the internet forum that is consistently in favor of anything and everything that is anti-business is also in favor of exporting American jobs overseas/exploiting Mexican labor.... and somehow "numbers don't apply" because "it's fucking skateboarding"? That's really interesting. Would you feel the same way if this was a forty-five year old man who had worked his whole life to manufacture plastic toys? How about several middle aged investors who worked their whole lives to put money into a corporation? I realize that a career as a professional skateboarder is an extremely difficult life that not many people would want, and that's commendable and all, but in a broader social context haven't these other groups worked just as hard? Why is a skateboard company any different?

I'd love to see this superior form of learning applied to other areas; it would be fun to see someone try to learn chemistry this way, for example. Imagine someone avoiding any reading, and instead just indiscriminately mixing chemicals together and observing reactions for the invaluable life experience.

[skatemore,man]

Expand Quote

Yes indeed, the market is completely over saturated, but it's certainly not due to companies hooking homies or "bros" up with product and jobs. It revolves around too much product being pushed into the dead weight mainstream, which truly exists to be a non-skateboarding community. And while this brings money into the "industry," it's expanding the "industry" and allowing for the good shit, the family shit, to get shot down. there's no fucking way a shoe company like Kastel (rip) could compete with Nike or a local clothing company compete with LRG. Shit or PFC competing with Hubba.

Again, not everyone invests their soul in skateboarding.
skateboarding is about tasting the flavor of life with your friends man, on every level.

[close]

truth, but why put Hubba up there with Nike and LRG?

last I checked, Hubba was mostly owned by Tony Vitello, son of Fausto, dudeman is heir to one of the longest running skate co. families going.

Fausto, RIP.

you got me there. BUT, i throw a small wheel company out there, PFC, that is trying to compete with a larger, newer, whatever company, Hubba which has a lot of capital available, and the smaller, cooler company is done for.

HAHAHA.... so the internet forum that is consistently in favor of anything and everything that is anti-business is also in favor of exporting American jobs overseas/exploiting Mexican labor.... and somehow "numbers don't apply" because "it's fucking skateboarding"? That's really interesting. Would you feel the same way if this was a forty-five year old man who had worked his whole life to manufacture plastic toys? How about several middle aged investors who worked their whole lives to put money into a corporation? I realize that a career as a professional skateboarder is an extremely difficult life that not many people would want, and that's commendable and all, but in a broader social context haven't these other groups worked just as hard? Why is a skateboard company any different?

I'd love to see this superior form of learning applied to other areas; it would be fun to see someone try to learn chemistry this way, for example. Imagine someone avoiding any reading, and instead just indiscriminately mixing chemicals together and observing reactions for the invaluable life experience.

and you.... eeeeee, man just keep on ranting. Sometimes, you make somewhat applicable points. BUT, young buck, there is a very large gap between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is learned, wisdom is lived.

Someone completely out of the "industry," if they're caring to skate much, shouldn't, well i can't say what one should or should not do, but rather, i don't understand how someone can get off on skating if they're comparing it to chemistry and the world economy.

Here in lies the problem, a "broader social context" of skateboarding is null. just ride your fucking skateboard. if you don't like a company or it's principles, don't buy its wares, bitching about it will do nothing. 

[drowe1]

chill out smart people

[Back to 0]

HAHAHA....

please remove the term DR. from your name, you made it pretty clear you are not one.
you are an insult to anyone that actually is one and has studied, thanks

[H8R part 4]

HAHAHA.... so the internet forum that is consistently in favor of anything and everything that is anti-business is also in favor of exporting American jobs overseas/exploiting Mexican labor.... and somehow "numbers don't apply" because "it's fucking skateboarding"? That's really interesting. Would you feel the same way if this was a forty-five year old man who had worked his whole life to manufacture plastic toys? How about several middle aged investors who worked their whole lives to put money into a corporation? I realize that a career as a professional skateboarder is an extremely difficult life that not many people would want, and that's commendable and all, but in a broader social context haven't these other groups worked just as hard? Why is a skateboard company any different?

I'd love to see this superior form of learning applied to other areas; it would be fun to see someone try to learn chemistry this way, for example. Imagine someone avoiding any reading, and instead just indiscriminately mixing chemicals together and observing reactions for the invaluable life experience.

all this BS coming from a rich kid thats never worked a day in his life.