Socialist Skateboarding/filmmaking

[brazillionaire]

It's been some time since I last posted on SLAP, but I guess there might be some fertile ground here for us to debate socialist-oriented perspectives on skateboarding, and related ideas, collective work, etc.

I have been thinking about the subversive character of our practice and how in many ways we let it be practically all coopted by capitalist enterprise. Like, I believe that this impetus we have to skate, and the power generated through it, is quite real and positively subversive, but in the end, it doesn't produce a lot of transformation in society. Quite the contrary, we are many times simply contributing to corporate and individualistic thought and social inequality.

As skaters, we, more than most, know the streets and how the neoliberalism, law-enforcement and all that shit affect people in different ways, and work to maintain them like that. At the same time, we happen to live in this extremely consumerist skate environment, in which everything is all about brands, this or that skater who rides for this or that corporation. Most of the trick clips we watch are working as marketing.
The thing is, in Brazil for example, it is a very small minority that can actually choose the parts they're skating, or kit they're skating in. Everything is "what you could get on sale", or cheaper second-hand boards.

This brand thing is bullshit, and we all know it.

Many times we even think of ourselves as "artists".... but what type of artistic practice is that which is apolitical? Doesn't make no sense.

So, I would like to start discussing ideas and all. Does anyone know any skateboarding collective doing politically engaged work (especially in terms of skatevideo / filmmaking)? 

[SodaJerk]

we are many times   

Rainbow equality?

[ImportantGuy]

It doesn't matter where our gear and clothes come from, or who profits from our purchases. What matters is the act of skateboarding itself, in the streets. I'll always remember the first time I saw someone rolling around, popping ollies and kickflips. It was the closest thing to magic I had ever seen. That type of inspiration feels truly subversive. Hockey players only play where it's OK for them to play.

[sofafrozen]

Does anyone know any skateboarding collective doing politically engaged work

Consolidated, but Birdo can't even frontside 5-0 Derby, so....

[imad]

Shut up and go skate, or don't, you fuckin' "socialist" pussy.

[ImportantGuy]

Shut up and go skate, or don't, you fuckin' "socialist" pussy.

Does your family sit you down at the kids table when they get together for dinner?

[cherry]

I know plenty of people who skateboard that dont give a shit about any of that. They skate left over gear and buy thrift shoes. You dont have to play Into the industry.

I skate daily,film, help maintain spots/build spots. Just for fun. socialism is a native American idea. Karl had an euro American pen pal who was describing the Haudenosaunee way of government while he was studying in England.

Idk what the point of that is but sometimes the term socialism is used like Marxism and makes it seem bad

[smellsdead]

interesting...on the topic of videographers and skaters got me thinking of "artists" and "art handlers" -who actually IS the artist?

i would think that petitions to save diy's or spots(perhaps most recently black blocks in atl)provide if nothing else, public space for the community, be it for recreation or homeless residences.

rva cats put out this machine kills facists-seemed pretty politically motivated
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B1sCFZC0-iE

[Lobo]

Socialism = plastic wheels

Been there,fuck that

[Tufty]

There is no such thing as socialist isles. Even trying this in a big country like russia is difficult. Socialism is not better, it is the future, as automation and capitalism cant go together with social prosperity.


Peace.


PS Branding is bullshit. I buy stuff that I like visually and need. I always thought that marketing is ridiculous.

[A.J.K.]

Many times we even think of ourselves as "artists".... but what type of artistic practice is that which is apolitical? Doesn't make no sense.

Don't play yourself here. If art/art practice has to be political, does that mean instrumental music isn't art? Or abstract painting? Are artists who don't attach some glib political message to their work implicit in capitalism's oppression? No, of course not. This view also suggests that art, here taking as skateboarding, has a tangible impact on politics. Which is a bit optimistic and would not stand up to any systematic analysis. And why so many armchair leftists think art needs to have a direct political effect is also unclear.

Quite the contrary, we are many times simply contributing to corporate and individualistic thought and social inequality.

How? By purchasing products? Trying to foster a discussion on real social ills by condemning skateboarders who purchase required products is a waste of time. By the lazy logic that everyone, by simply existing, upholds capitalism doesn't provide any specific insights into how political and economic actors and institutions operate and either change or sustain current systems. Why skateboarders are particularly individualistic is also unclear...the average skater probably has a small crew that, given the chance, would likely get along fine with any other crew. The majority of skateboarders don't require the incentive of Monster and Nike to go out and push around.

[IPODS SUCK!]

It's been some time since I last posted on SLAP, but I guess there might be some fertile ground here for us to debate socialist-oriented perspectives on skateboarding, and related ideas, collective work, etc.

I have been thinking about the subversive character of our practice and how in many ways we let it be practically all coopted by capitalist enterprise. Like, I believe that this impetus we have to skate, and the power generated through it, is quite real and positively subversive, but in the end, it doesn't produce a lot of transformation in society. Quite the contrary, we are many times simply contributing to corporate and individualistic thought and social inequality.

As skaters, we, more than most, know the streets and how the neoliberalism, law-enforcement and all that shit affect people in different ways, and work to maintain them like that. At the same time, we happen to live in this extremely consumerist skate environment, in which everything is all about brands, this or that skater who rides for this or that corporation. Most of the trick clips we watch are working as marketing.
The thing is, in Brazil for example, it is a very small minority that can actually choose the parts they're skating, or kit they're skating in. Everything is "what you could get on sale", or cheaper second-hand boards.

This brand thing is bullshit, and we all know it.

Many times we even think of ourselves as "artists".... but what type of artistic practice is that which is apolitical? Doesn't make no sense.

So, I would like to start discussing ideas and all. Does anyone know any skateboarding collective doing politically engaged work (especially in terms of skatevideo / filmmaking)?

Skateboarding is not a subversive act. Perhaps trespassing and property damage could be considered subversive? Skating on private property is not done to demonstrate a social message or anything other than the skills it takes to land whatever the skateboarder is trying to do. There also is the simple fact that it is being done for pleasure and enjoyment, for challenge and camaraderie. There is no greater social message or protest.

Skating in a skatepark or on purpose-built ramps and obstacles is not anymore subversive than figure skating at an ice arena.

Skateboarding in and of itself is an activity, the marketing and branding is available if you want to participate in it. If not then don't. Make your own boards, wheels, and trucks through a collective. See how well that works.

Whoever thinks of themselves as an artist with some kind of political message based on their skateboarding alone is deluded. Perhaps they could use skateboarding as a forum to pronounce their political beliefs but the act of skating itself? I don't think so. It is apolitical.

If you want to participate in social justice movements or debate economics then you should go into academics, politics, or public policy.

[brazillionaire]

Don't play yourself here. If art/art practice has to be political, does that mean instrumental music isn't art? Or abstract painting? Are artists who don't attach some glib political message to their work implicit in capitalism's oppression? No, of course not. This view also suggests that art, here taking as skateboarding, has a tangible impact on politics. Which is a bit optimistic and would not stand up to any systematic analysis. And why so many armchair leftists think art needs to have a direct political effect is also unclear.

That is true, my line was a bit of a stretch. I guess what I was trying to imply there is that in many ways the "artistic" or "subversive" aspects of skateboarding remain relegated to marketing purposes. Like, a lot of the art associated with skateboarding is mostly related to creating brands images; it is quite rare that they help us think about the world we skate in and how are we acting in it. That's why I said that it makes no sense.

Of course, I believe that socialist perspective provides better models for society, so that's why I'm advocating for a socialist skateboarding and for politically engaged art.

Skateboarding is not a subversive act. Perhaps trespassing and property damage could be considered subversive? Skating on private property is not done to demonstrate a social message or anything other than the skills it takes to land whatever the skateboarder is trying to do. There also is the simple fact that it is being done for pleasure and enjoyment, for challenge and camaraderie. There is no greater social message or protest.

skateboarding is subversive. Just look how people live their lives around us. The way skateboarding subverts the use of space, the way makes us look at the urban dynamic makes it some sort of a liberating, contesting practice. That's probably why we tend to "respect" more what is sometimes called "raw" skateboarding. Because it is more subversive, and therefore more true to the essence of the practice.

I'm not saying skateboarding is socialist. But it is subversive and, consequently, political (political in the sense that it speaks to our position in society).
I just think it is a shame that none of this power is dedicated to promoting transformation in society.

[tkp]

I mean skateboarding exists within capitalism. You can't continue to run a brand while losing money unless you are funding it through some other source.

I remember buying skate gear (shoes, shirts, pants) back in the day because it was cheaper than all the other shit. You can still find deals, but demand has let companies realize people will pay a premium to be associated with their image. Shit, I work for a brand who sells $28 tshirts (they are made of hemp and organic cotton at least), but I'd never pay that much for a shirt.

The act of skateboarding clicks with so many because once you have the board, it's free and you can do it anywhere any time in major cities or anywhere with a smooth enough surface. No extra bells and whistles unless you choose to spend money on the trendiest gear.

Without brands backing skaters, skateboarding would be a lot different. A brand can be defined as a group of people who came together based upon a common bond in order to attempt to shape it and survive off of it. Therefore they devote resources to building that common bond. Think of skateboarding without the early shoe companies, or board companies...

As for transformation, look at all of the public skateboard parks that have popped up. Look at cities around the world who are specifically designing plazas for the act of legal public skateboarding.

I mean, skateboarding made it to the olympics... I'd say this little joy of ours has opened up many people's minds to enjoyable ways of existing.

[frontsideoverkrook]

on the surface level, most artists like to think they're operating on a left-wing/ socialist platform, yet in reality they are actually driven by a capitalist agenda. it's a common characteristic of artists, and so naturally the skateboarding realm is no different. if you exist in a capitalist country, you'll be hard pressed to divorce any popular activity entirely away from capitalism.

[Tedd]

Yo why are you guys thinking about shit? Fags

[Nic]

Expand Quote

Don't play yourself here. If art/art practice has to be political, does that mean instrumental music isn't art? Or abstract painting? Are artists who don't attach some glib political message to their work implicit in capitalism's oppression? No, of course not. This view also suggests that art, here taking as skateboarding, has a tangible impact on politics. Which is a bit optimistic and would not stand up to any systematic analysis. And why so many armchair leftists think art needs to have a direct political effect is also unclear.

[close]

That is true, my line was a bit of a stretch. I guess what I was trying to imply there is that in many ways the "artistic" or "subversive" aspects of skateboarding remain relegated to marketing purposes. Like, a lot of the art associated with skateboarding is mostly related to creating brands images; it is quite rare that they help us think about the world we skate in and how are we acting in it. That's why I said that it makes no sense.

Of course, I believe that socialist perspective provides better models for society, so that's why I'm advocating for a socialist skateboarding and for politically engaged art.

Expand Quote

Skateboarding is not a subversive act. Perhaps trespassing and property damage could be considered subversive? Skating on private property is not done to demonstrate a social message or anything other than the skills it takes to land whatever the skateboarder is trying to do. There also is the simple fact that it is being done for pleasure and enjoyment, for challenge and camaraderie. There is no greater social message or protest.

[close]

skateboarding is subversive. Just look how people live their lives around us. The way skateboarding subverts the use of space, the way makes us look at the urban dynamic makes it some sort of a liberating, contesting practice. That's probably why we tend to "respect" more what is sometimes called "raw" skateboarding. Because it is more subversive, and therefore more true to the essence of the practice.

I'm not saying skateboarding is socialist. But it is subversive and, consequently, political (political in the sense that it speaks to our position in society).
I just think it is a shame that none of this power is dedicated to promoting transformation in society.

It's an overused truism, but be the change you want to see. It's not self-evident how skateboarding could transform society. What is it about skateboarding that you see as possibly transformative, and how do you think it could be used toward that transformation?

I'm not saying this ironically or to be dismissive. I'm not sold on the idea yet but I'd be interested to hear more about how you see people being able to put this in practice.

Also shout out to Birdo for being the most entertaining part of Andy Roy's Epicly Later'd.

[ImportantGuy]

Yo why are you guys thinking about shit? Fags

Why do you breathe?

[Tufty]

Skateboarding has indeed some subversive elements. Skateboarding is just another subculture. Starting by misfits that do their own thing, often challenging the norms and the establishment. However as the subculture catches on a larger audience the market forces smell profits and they pollute this subculture with the dominant ideology of society, which is capitalism-free markets-free trade.

Of course there are people that do their own thing away from spotlight but the point here is the general image of skateboarding which is so much different now than it was in the 90s for example.

[brazillionaire]

It's an overused truism, but be the change you want to see. It's not self-evident how skateboarding could transform society. What is it about skateboarding that you see as possibly transformative, and how do you think it could be used toward that transformation?

I'm not saying this ironically or to be dismissive. I'm not sold on the idea yet but I'd be interested to hear more about how you see people being able to put this in practice.

Also shout out to Birdo for being the most entertaining part of Andy Roy's Epicly Later'd.

That's the question. I believe there are actually numerous ways that skateboarding could be transformative. I guess skaters just have to be creative, and that's probably one of our biggest qualities.

I have thought of two ways. One, more subjective, would be the fostering and production of a more politically engaged skate filmmaking. That would lead skaters to not think about some brand's aesthetic and coolness, or about certain skaters' styles/bag of tricks/gnarliness, but to see the skating, and the aesthetics as a channel to thinking about society.
And I believe that when skaters start to watch shit that is more sociopolitically meaningful, they will actually back it up, because it would actually be more raw, because it is more aligned with the practice's essence. This will, exponentially, make more people trying to promote transformation in society.

for example, This Machine Kill Facists here has a mean intro and overall skating/political discourse (thanks for the link smellsdead)

interesting...on the topic of videographers and skaters got me thinking of "artists" and "art handlers" -who actually IS the artist?

i would think that petitions to save diy's or spots(perhaps most recently black blocks in atl)provide if nothing else, public space for the community, be it for recreation or homeless residences.

rva cats put out this machine kills facists-seemed pretty politically motivated
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B1sCFZC0-iE

Another idea I've had, which I plan on putting into effect once I go back to Brazil, is the creation of a collective/association (of filmmakers, photographers, and skaters in general) o promote filmmaking and photography workshops to low-income skater kids, skatevideo production funding (equipment lending and shit) and film screenings, both for skatevideos and cinema.