for the 1% who care. Thanks for helping me waste my morningNo problem , I enjoy wasting peoples time , just ask my ex GFs
So I should eat animals because wars exist I'm not sure of your reasoning there...
Bears and lions are carnivores, they live in much different environments to you and me and they don't have an abundance of fresh food available to them like we do. If you want to compare yourself and your living situation to carnivores, then you should act and behave accordingly.
a) Do you (naturally) froth at the mouth when you see a dead carcass? No, you can't answer with hmmmmm bacon!
b) Can you consume raw flesh (guts, fur, blood and all)? Raw Paleo son! fuck an oven
c) Have you ever used your teeth/ claws to rip another animal open? Gummi bears don't count
d) Can you catch other animals with nothing but your bare hands? Girls you picked up at the bar aren't classed as animals btw
A: Do animals froth at the mouth every time ? dont think so , None of the bird predators or scavengers , none of the animals in the sea
And I doubt all lions do it every time they see meat
B: Humans can consume all meat and fish and bird raw . We eat raw fish and raw beef all the time . Main reason we dont eat pork and chicken raw is cause of parasites / bacteria . Animals who do can also get sick from this though
C: Human teeth and nails are not maid to rip animals apart . But I have used my hands and arms to help take apart carcases
D:Sure you can , just get the animal into a place where it cant run away , then pick it up
I'm not sure about you but I can't do any of those things. I'm also pretty sure that if I ate my baby or sniffed your arse when I met you that I would be classified as clinically insane. Please let's not pretend that we are carnivores living in life/ death survival situations. We are two lo(b)s(t)ers sitting behind a computer screen connected to the internet having a discussion about ethics (and probably watching porn in the next tab over). Veganism isn't the answer to all the suffering in the world but it's a certainly good baseline.See this is where Darwin comes in . Survival of the fittest . Some people think this means only the strong survive , but thats not what he ment . Its who ever adopts to the situation the best survives .
Humans are not the top predators cause we are the fastest , strongest , biggest or most durable . We are the top predator cause we have our amazing brains . We can live in cold places cause we figured out clothes and how to build fires and shelters
First humans ( or humanoids ) have been around for 100 thousands of years . We didnt survive that by trying to hunt animals with out teeth and claws . No we figured out how to make spears , knifes , axes . Taking flint and chipping off pieces and tying it to a stick to throw at a bigger animal . We eat meat raw , we figured out fire and how to cook it . We figured out how to trick animals into situations where we could trap them or ambush them
chimpanzees do this , they work together to catch smaller animals and even smaller monkeys so they can eat them
Look at any other "top predator", what do they need to hunt and fish? I'll give you a hint, it isn't a rifle or a fishing rod Our brain is why we are top predator . We can wipe out almost all animals on earth and even humans if we wanted to . Faster
and more efficient then any other animal on earth . There are other predators who use tools or evolution things to hunt
Some fish shoot water spurts onto insects to make them drop into the water . Angler fish use their glowing "head thing" to lure fish into coming close . Chameleons use their long tounge to shoot like a sniper rifle to get insects
We just had our brain to make everything more effective then all other predators
Are you going to tell me that plants have feelings too? Cause if you are I'm ending the discussion right here *sighs*
I don't intentionally kill insects. Yes, I walk on the earth so of course I crush ants and other bugs on the daily but like my previous point up there; intentionally killing something and accidentally killing something are two very different things. This is especially true in the world we live in and is why legally terms like murder (or its cousin 2nd degree murder), manslaughter and homicide etc. exist within our society. Culpability and all that jazzWhat about wiping out mosquitoes to prevent malaria ? or wiping out grasshoppers so they wont effect our crops ? is that ok ?
for-eating-oysters-and-mussels/[/url] I'm more than happy to evolve with science, are you?I love to eat oysters and mussels so Im all for it
There it is, you said it yourself! I'm sure it will get better too, but much like any other issue (womens rights, gay marriage etc.) it's not going to happen without a lot of fighting from our end. Can you think of any other movement where you continue to do exactly what it is that you're apparently opposed to but just be "nicer" about or do it less?
Well womens right was not clear at first , its gone in small stepps , from almost slave like conditons , to be given rights , given voting rights , and then equal work rights and so on . It didnt really go quick either did it
Gay rights have been quite slow aswell , from being seen as freaks , even getting killed for it , to being more accepted , and then being able to get married in law , and then married in church , getting rights to adopt
Im not sure on the time frame , how it compares to animals rights . But all things are getting better and it takes time
I guess this is the imaginary line in the sand that people choose to draw to convince them selves that x should die and y should live. My question is why? Why is it socially acceptable to eat a certain animals but not others based solely on longitude and latitude coordinates on a map? People eat dog in China, do you think that's cool? People here in Japan eat horse (or dolphin, or whale), are you down for that? If tobey steps on his cat's foot and feels like an arsehole, why can't he extend that empathy to my pet pig*?You are right about this , why is it ok to eat a dog in one country , but in another you are seen as a murder for it . Pigs are just as intelligent as dogs so that makes it even weirder . But dogs have been our friends for thousands of years , cats were considered gods in Egypt . I guess it was just pigs lot in life to be consider food .
If me and my dog got lost in the woods , starving and the only way to survive was to eat my dog , I would just starve . If it was a pig id be spit roasting that dude faster then dennis B skates .
I think laws for dolphins , whales , chimpanzees , gorillas and orang-outangs need to change , these are some of our closest relatives and highly intellectual animals . I dont think we have the right to kill them and should protect them
You must live in a commune or something if that many people around you are aware of these issues... either that to your workplace is basing their business model on these ideals. I'd say 90% of the people in the world simply don't give a fuck and I don't think I'm over exaggerating there.Nah , 90% of my friends are chefs , and I know them from places Ive worked . 90% of the places Ive worked have had close ties to the farms , nose to tail eating , organic , free range . Good happy animals and good happy vegetables and so on . Im sure we all eat junk food sometimes but all of us try to think about where our food comes from most the times
I don't think I can articulate a good answer for this one so I'm going to borrow from doctor google and biased vegan sites :p
In short-- so we should continue to breed, torture, kill and profit from farm animals because if we don't they will become extinct? That's sort of like arguing against abortion really; sure, everything has the right to live/ be born but if your life is going to be constant suffering and pain from day dot is it really worth it just to protect that right?
Ill check those links later , I am interested but dont want to deal with all that reading now . My point was abit ridiculous , to some point some of it was valid but yeah I know what you mean . I guess my point was that if you say no more animal for food , then we would have to kill alot of animals and do nothing with them
It does sound crazy and I can't think of any other instance where we continue to kill things in order to preserve them. Okay actually wait, yes I can. Whaling in Japan is of the exact same school of thought and we both know how well thought out and scientifically based that industry is Imma need to do some more research on this one as well as the hunting deer one. Thanks for the homework mateHuge fenced up organisations , they get money from hunters who pay to shoot them . So the animals are safe from poachers and hunters only get to kill what they pay for and what the area can cope with . They make sure the population is at a good level
There was a old rhino that needed to be killed . It couldnt mate anymore and was attacking and killing females and males who could mate .
The organisation protecting the rhinos decided it was go be killed . It was dangerous for the rhino population to keep it alive .
So they held a auction to sell the kill . Money would go to help the organisation protect more rhinos , and the meat would go to a
local village . The sale was very hard since PETA and other organisations didnt want to kill the rhino . But at the same time they didnt offer to deal with the rhino
THe hunter who won the bid , went to africa , paid , shot the rhino , and gave away the meat . His whole family needed police protection and he and his family received death threats every day . Does this seem right to you ?
I would argue that 50 years ago, animals were treated a lot better than they are today. I'm not sure if the net is making people smarter (look at SLAP ffs) but it certainly is raising awareness to issues that were for the most part otherwise ignored. Factory farming is in terms of the world is pretty new . Yes back in the day when people had smaller farms and people needed less meat Im sure they got treated abit better . Before all this fucking corn and corn syrup shit . But I do belive it will get better and better
Exactly! That is the whole basis for my argument. To be consistent with this I avoid contributing to anything that *intentionally* supports that suffering. I don't think that is a hard concept to grasp. I'll tell you what though, you get my props for killing animals yourself. If you can go through that process and come out the other end and still think "yeah, this looks tasty" then you are better than all of the drones that harp on about us being the "superior species" while they munch on big macs and talk shit on the net.Humans are the top predators , but we reached the inteligence where we dont have to hunt we can breed animals in smaller areas and avoid all the hunting . But now only a few people kill the animals for the masses , so we lost touch with the brutality of it .
I feel hunters and vegans should get along much better
For you it's the cleanliness of the kill, which I get (to a point), for me I'm saying that the kill doesn't even have to happen in the first place in the current society we live in. It can be avoided all together. Sure, if you are a starving caveman, sharpen some sticks and stab a fucking mammoth. Last time i checked though, you aren't... How long have humans been around ? 100k ? 400k ? or even longer . Its only now that we are turning vegan . Maybe the past 100 or 200 years ? In more ways its more natural for us to eat meat then not eat meat . You say that we are not top predators cause we cant catch a deer by running and catching it and tearing it apart with out teeth . But its our brain that gives us the option to be vegan the same as it is that we can build a bow and arrow to kill the deer .
You should only kill when you are going to use it and when you do as humanly as possible
(again) Yes, this is an admirable stance to have if you are still going to consume meat. Do you honestly think though that a pig gives a shit about whether you are going to "use it" or not and whether you will kill it humanely when you are holding a bolt gun to its head? I'm 100% sure that this is the last thing on its mind.Im not sure what animals understand . Ever see those animal rescue videos ? . When a moose falls through the ice and is drowning . Does it understand that the human is trying to help it ? Does the dog ? . Do cats who emulate dog behaviour when raised by dogs understand that its a cat ? or does it think its a dog ? .
I do think cowns and pigs understand being in a slaughter house is bad , there must be some energy combined with the smell and what they see is that they understand they should not be here , they should run away and avoid this place . But do they understand this is where they will die ? If they do understand I do bet they would rather take the bolt gun then the chainsaw