Wheels Thread

[juniormint]

Skated my production 93a dragons one last time today before giving to a friend. Some more observations on grind drag:

Rockridge curbs (so those in the bay area have some reference). Ground ish rough ish but nothing 99 f4s cant handle. Curbs are pretty good, but I'm guessing nowhere near as icy as the venice curbs. Everything I previously said was true, but on curbs this smooth (or better), I could see myself getting used to pushing tricks like reg/sw slappy crooks a bit harder to compensate, and just getting used to the way these wheels climb onto curbs. Its pretty noticeably worse than a hard wheel after doing side by side comparisons, but if you value the smooth ride that much, you could probably adjust and deal with a bit more grind drag.

There's also a wooden box with metal coping there right now. If you wax the metal coping, it crooked grinds, tailslides etc just fine. But if its a little drier then it'll be noticeably stickier than f4s.

What I noticed about the drag for other tricks (smiths, 5-0s etc) is that its fine if you lock in perfectly... but if you don't lock in perfectly and have to adjust into the correct position, these aren't as forgiving as a hard wheel. I could see this being an even bigger problem on round rails where often you shimmy into a cross lock after your trucks make initial contact with the rail.

Again, a hearty coat of wax would solve most of these problems, but I really don't like waxing stuff too much, especially if there's a bunch of people skating the obstacle.

I don't skate around and between spots much nowadays, and even for spots with less ideal ground that I often skate, the increased grind friction, and other minor drawbacks, isn't worth the much smoother ride 90% of the time.

Still keeping my protoype 95as for the occasional days where I really dont want to push but still want to skate a little bit. Maybe the production 95 or 97as are going to be perfect

Not sure if I missed it in another of your comments, but how would you compare them to 97a spits, if you can?

[FuzzGNU]

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Skated my production 93a dragons one last time today before giving to a friend. Some more observations on grind drag:

Rockridge curbs (so those in the bay area have some reference). Ground ish rough ish but nothing 99 f4s cant handle. Curbs are pretty good, but I'm guessing nowhere near as icy as the venice curbs. Everything I previously said was true, but on curbs this smooth (or better), I could see myself getting used to pushing tricks like reg/sw slappy crooks a bit harder to compensate, and just getting used to the way these wheels climb onto curbs. Its pretty noticeably worse than a hard wheel after doing side by side comparisons, but if you value the smooth ride that much, you could probably adjust and deal with a bit more grind drag.

There's also a wooden box with metal coping there right now. If you wax the metal coping, it crooked grinds, tailslides etc just fine. But if its a little drier then it'll be noticeably stickier than f4s.

What I noticed about the drag for other tricks (smiths, 5-0s etc) is that its fine if you lock in perfectly... but if you don't lock in perfectly and have to adjust into the correct position, these aren't as forgiving as a hard wheel. I could see this being an even bigger problem on round rails where often you shimmy into a cross lock after your trucks make initial contact with the rail.

Again, a hearty coat of wax would solve most of these problems, but I really don't like waxing stuff too much, especially if there's a bunch of people skating the obstacle.

I don't skate around and between spots much nowadays, and even for spots with less ideal ground that I often skate, the increased grind friction, and other minor drawbacks, isn't worth the much smoother ride 90% of the time.

Still keeping my protoype 95as for the occasional days where I really dont want to push but still want to skate a little bit. Maybe the production 95 or 97as are going to be perfect

[close]

Not sure if I missed it in another of your comments, but how would you compare them to 97a spits, if you can?

To me F4 97a slide way worse.... feel muted and bouncy like a cruiser wheel.... And are slower than these. Maybe tackle really really rough streets sliiightly better, but it's neck and neck.

These have better grip and better slide... Feel hard. Faster. A much better all around trick wheel.... The F4 97a are good utilitarian wheels but not "fun" to skate due to feel and slide issues. They feel like a cruiser hybrid wheel.

These Dragons are fun. Even just reverting around and shit is fun. They feel like a 98a but definitely a street trick wheel rather than a cruiser wheel.

[tzhangdox]

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Skated my production 93a dragons one last time today before giving to a friend. Some more observations on grind drag:

Rockridge curbs (so those in the bay area have some reference). Ground ish rough ish but nothing 99 f4s cant handle. Curbs are pretty good, but I'm guessing nowhere near as icy as the venice curbs. Everything I previously said was true, but on curbs this smooth (or better), I could see myself getting used to pushing tricks like reg/sw slappy crooks a bit harder to compensate, and just getting used to the way these wheels climb onto curbs. Its pretty noticeably worse than a hard wheel after doing side by side comparisons, but if you value the smooth ride that much, you could probably adjust and deal with a bit more grind drag.

There's also a wooden box with metal coping there right now. If you wax the metal coping, it crooked grinds, tailslides etc just fine. But if its a little drier then it'll be noticeably stickier than f4s.

What I noticed about the drag for other tricks (smiths, 5-0s etc) is that its fine if you lock in perfectly... but if you don't lock in perfectly and have to adjust into the correct position, these aren't as forgiving as a hard wheel. I could see this being an even bigger problem on round rails where often you shimmy into a cross lock after your trucks make initial contact with the rail.

Again, a hearty coat of wax would solve most of these problems, but I really don't like waxing stuff too much, especially if there's a bunch of people skating the obstacle.

I don't skate around and between spots much nowadays, and even for spots with less ideal ground that I often skate, the increased grind friction, and other minor drawbacks, isn't worth the much smoother ride 90% of the time.

Still keeping my protoype 95as for the occasional days where I really dont want to push but still want to skate a little bit. Maybe the production 95 or 97as are going to be perfect

[close]

Not sure if I missed it in another of your comments, but how would you compare them to 97a spits, if you can?

I haven't skated a 97a f4 in a few months so much of this is based off of the best of my recollection, but 97 spits definitely feel harder for sure. I never really noticed a difference in wheelbite between 97 and 99 f4s, but with these I did notice myself being thrown off harder if I wheelbite.

I recall that 97 spits had similar issues on metal coping, but definitely not as bad as these. 97 spits also slappy better, dont drag on grinds as much etc, especially crooked grinds.... though both are worse than a 99 f4

When it comes to purely powerslides, both are very good, maybe I'd give the edge to these powell 93as actually, if anything just purely because of how pleasantly surprised I was by the powerslide, but never did a side by side test so hard to say, I don't find either wheel lacking in this department and am plenty happy with it. Its possible that the 93as are better for lip/bluntslides on certain surfaces too, definitely can't say for sure though.

The powell 93as are a lot lot smoother than the 97 f4s though. I know some others in this thread disagree, but imo its pretty clear cut, and even a few of my friends (who mostly skate 99 f4s but some have skated 97 f4s) agreed that these feel like a soft wheel that perform almost as good as a hard wheel... whereas 97 f4s are kind of a hard wheel like a 99 f4 thats just a little bit softer and more forgiving.

Basically, if you get a lot of wheelbite, or your skating is very heavily focused on grinds or slides on things that aren't super icy, I would get 97 f4s any day. If you want something smoother than 97 f4s, handles rough shit better, and grinds/slides aren't a very high priority for you, I'd get the dragons.

[tzhangdox]

Wow I'm honestly shocked that we have the opposite experience, even on the exact same production formula.

Not a single friend of mine whos tried these 93 dragons has thought that it feels anything like a hard wheel... besides for powerslides and reverts where it goes really nice

This is mad confusing lol

[LebowskisRug]

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Skated my production 93a dragons one last time today before giving to a friend. Some more observations on grind drag:

Rockridge curbs (so those in the bay area have some reference). Ground ish rough ish but nothing 99 f4s cant handle. Curbs are pretty good, but I'm guessing nowhere near as icy as the venice curbs. Everything I previously said was true, but on curbs this smooth (or better), I could see myself getting used to pushing tricks like reg/sw slappy crooks a bit harder to compensate, and just getting used to the way these wheels climb onto curbs. Its pretty noticeably worse than a hard wheel after doing side by side comparisons, but if you value the smooth ride that much, you could probably adjust and deal with a bit more grind drag.

There's also a wooden box with metal coping there right now. If you wax the metal coping, it crooked grinds, tailslides etc just fine. But if its a little drier then it'll be noticeably stickier than f4s.

What I noticed about the drag for other tricks (smiths, 5-0s etc) is that its fine if you lock in perfectly... but if you don't lock in perfectly and have to adjust into the correct position, these aren't as forgiving as a hard wheel. I could see this being an even bigger problem on round rails where often you shimmy into a cross lock after your trucks make initial contact with the rail.

Again, a hearty coat of wax would solve most of these problems, but I really don't like waxing stuff too much, especially if there's a bunch of people skating the obstacle.

I don't skate around and between spots much nowadays, and even for spots with less ideal ground that I often skate, the increased grind friction, and other minor drawbacks, isn't worth the much smoother ride 90% of the time.

Still keeping my protoype 95as for the occasional days where I really dont want to push but still want to skate a little bit. Maybe the production 95 or 97as are going to be perfect

[close]

Not sure if I missed it in another of your comments, but how would you compare them to 97a spits, if you can?

[close]

To me F4 97a slide way worse.... feel muted and bouncy like a cruiser wheel.... And are slower than these. Maybe tackle really really rough streets sliiightly better, but it's neck and neck.

These have better grip and better slide... Feel hard. Faster. A much better all around trick wheel.... The F4 97a are good utilitarian wheels but not "fun" to skate due to feel and slide issues. They feel like a cruiser hybrid wheel.

These Dragons are fun. Even just reverting around and shit is fun. They feel like a 98a but definitely a street trick wheel rather than a cruiser wheel.

100% opposite of my experience on both. I had some 97 classics that I didn't know were 97 for like 6 months. Felt great and fast me slid well, but 97 conicals were different. The revert is the worst thing about the 93 Dragons to me. There isn't finite control to push it or anticipate how or when it will really stick. It does or doesn't. 360 no complies made it feel pretty stark.

Frankly I find it weird you avoid discussing specific tricks and just speak in generalities. It actually is to the point where I'm not sure I trust your opinion because it's really rare for someone to speak in such generalities. Skateboarding rarely has any piece of equipment that doesn't have a weakness in specific scenarios.

I checked your post history and your earliest posts are about G Slides. You clearly want a soft wheel that slides which leads me to believe you're coming at it from a cruising first perspective and probably barely leave the ground. 90% of your posts are about marginal differences in wheels many of which aren't actually that crazy different and optimizing for "Midwest crust". I lost count of how many wheels you tried and had issues with since March of this year.

[FuzzGNU]

Wow I'm honestly shocked that we have the opposite experience, even on the exact same production formula.

Not a single friend of mine whos tried these 93 dragons has thought that it feels anything like a hard wheel... besides for powerslides and reverts where it goes really nice

This is mad confusing lol

When did you get your 97a F4 and what shape? Mine were Conical Full and I probably got them a bit over a year ago.

[tzhangdox]

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Wow I'm honestly shocked that we have the opposite experience, even on the exact same production formula.

Not a single friend of mine whos tried these 93 dragons has thought that it feels anything like a hard wheel... besides for powerslides and reverts where it goes really nice

This is mad confusing lol

[close]

When did you get your 97a F4 and what shape? Mine were Conical Full and I probably got them a bit over a year ago.

I've had conical fulls and classics, conical full probably about a year and a bit ago. Classics were late last year, skated them early this year.

[FuzzGNU]

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Skated my production 93a dragons one last time today before giving to a friend. Some more observations on grind drag:

Rockridge curbs (so those in the bay area have some reference). Ground ish rough ish but nothing 99 f4s cant handle. Curbs are pretty good, but I'm guessing nowhere near as icy as the venice curbs. Everything I previously said was true, but on curbs this smooth (or better), I could see myself getting used to pushing tricks like reg/sw slappy crooks a bit harder to compensate, and just getting used to the way these wheels climb onto curbs. Its pretty noticeably worse than a hard wheel after doing side by side comparisons, but if you value the smooth ride that much, you could probably adjust and deal with a bit more grind drag.

There's also a wooden box with metal coping there right now. If you wax the metal coping, it crooked grinds, tailslides etc just fine. But if its a little drier then it'll be noticeably stickier than f4s.

What I noticed about the drag for other tricks (smiths, 5-0s etc) is that its fine if you lock in perfectly... but if you don't lock in perfectly and have to adjust into the correct position, these aren't as forgiving as a hard wheel. I could see this being an even bigger problem on round rails where often you shimmy into a cross lock after your trucks make initial contact with the rail.

Again, a hearty coat of wax would solve most of these problems, but I really don't like waxing stuff too much, especially if there's a bunch of people skating the obstacle.

I don't skate around and between spots much nowadays, and even for spots with less ideal ground that I often skate, the increased grind friction, and other minor drawbacks, isn't worth the much smoother ride 90% of the time.

Still keeping my protoype 95as for the occasional days where I really dont want to push but still want to skate a little bit. Maybe the production 95 or 97as are going to be perfect

[close]

Not sure if I missed it in another of your comments, but how would you compare them to 97a spits, if you can?

[close]

To me F4 97a slide way worse.... feel muted and bouncy like a cruiser wheel.... And are slower than these. Maybe tackle really really rough streets sliiightly better, but it's neck and neck.

These have better grip and better slide... Feel hard. Faster. A much better all around trick wheel.... The F4 97a are good utilitarian wheels but not "fun" to skate due to feel and slide issues. They feel like a cruiser hybrid wheel.

These Dragons are fun. Even just reverting around and shit is fun. They feel like a 98a but definitely a street trick wheel rather than a cruiser wheel.

[close]

100% opposite of my experience on both. I had some 97 classics that I didn't know were 97 for like 6 months. Felt great and fast me slid well, but 97 conicals were different. The revert is the worst thing about the 93 Dragons to me. There isn't finite control to push it or anticipate how or when it will really stick. It does or doesn't. 360 no complies made it feel pretty stark.

Frankly I find it weird you avoid discussing specific tricks and just speak in generalities. It actually is to the point where I'm not sure I trust your opinion because it's really rare for someone to speak in such generalities. Skateboarding rarely has any piece of equipment that doesn't have a weakness in specific scenarios.

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, haven't really had a chance to skate anything very grindable this summer. I've left that to others.

Ollies and flip tricks and manuals obviously feel the same as any other hard wheel. Not sure why I would specifically talk about heelflips for example.

I've found they finish rotations just fine on things like 180s, and shove variations. Can't say the same about F4 97a I skated which stopped in their tracks. 97a basically couldn't even do a decent powerslide without instantly coming to a stop.

From what other people are saying about F4 97a, it sounds like we skated entirely different wheels. Maybe mine were one of the first batches and they've changed the formula since?

[LebowskisRug]

Where in the United States do you live that has not even a curb to grind? You literally claim these wheels grind and slide fine so it's weird you claim that then say you haven't grinded.

Frankly at this point I think you're full of shit. I am not even that great and can revert on 97s just fine on just about any surface. Again- I didn't realize I even had them for a fairly long time. You'd have to be going really slow for that. And you can still control the revert.

Most of your posts in the last few months seem to be about these wheels, which there are now obvious glaring holes in your story about what you tested them doing. Powell should send you a box for your hard work.

Also since I did see your post history why did you pay for Fallens?

[tzhangdox]

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Skated my production 93a dragons one last time today before giving to a friend. Some more observations on grind drag:

Rockridge curbs (so those in the bay area have some reference). Ground ish rough ish but nothing 99 f4s cant handle. Curbs are pretty good, but I'm guessing nowhere near as icy as the venice curbs. Everything I previously said was true, but on curbs this smooth (or better), I could see myself getting used to pushing tricks like reg/sw slappy crooks a bit harder to compensate, and just getting used to the way these wheels climb onto curbs. Its pretty noticeably worse than a hard wheel after doing side by side comparisons, but if you value the smooth ride that much, you could probably adjust and deal with a bit more grind drag.

There's also a wooden box with metal coping there right now. If you wax the metal coping, it crooked grinds, tailslides etc just fine. But if its a little drier then it'll be noticeably stickier than f4s.

What I noticed about the drag for other tricks (smiths, 5-0s etc) is that its fine if you lock in perfectly... but if you don't lock in perfectly and have to adjust into the correct position, these aren't as forgiving as a hard wheel. I could see this being an even bigger problem on round rails where often you shimmy into a cross lock after your trucks make initial contact with the rail.

Again, a hearty coat of wax would solve most of these problems, but I really don't like waxing stuff too much, especially if there's a bunch of people skating the obstacle.

I don't skate around and between spots much nowadays, and even for spots with less ideal ground that I often skate, the increased grind friction, and other minor drawbacks, isn't worth the much smoother ride 90% of the time.

Still keeping my protoype 95as for the occasional days where I really dont want to push but still want to skate a little bit. Maybe the production 95 or 97as are going to be perfect

[close]

Not sure if I missed it in another of your comments, but how would you compare them to 97a spits, if you can?

[close]

To me F4 97a slide way worse.... feel muted and bouncy like a cruiser wheel.... And are slower than these. Maybe tackle really really rough streets sliiightly better, but it's neck and neck.

These have better grip and better slide... Feel hard. Faster. A much better all around trick wheel.... The F4 97a are good utilitarian wheels but not "fun" to skate due to feel and slide issues. They feel like a cruiser hybrid wheel.

These Dragons are fun. Even just reverting around and shit is fun. They feel like a 98a but definitely a street trick wheel rather than a cruiser wheel.

[close]

100% opposite of my experience on both. I had some 97 classics that I didn't know were 97 for like 6 months. Felt great and fast me slid well, but 97 conicals were different. The revert is the worst thing about the 93 Dragons to me. There isn't finite control to push it or anticipate how or when it will really stick. It does or doesn't. 360 no complies made it feel pretty stark.

Frankly I find it weird you avoid discussing specific tricks and just speak in generalities. It actually is to the point where I'm not sure I trust your opinion because it's really rare for someone to speak in such generalities. Skateboarding rarely has any piece of equipment that doesn't have a weakness in specific scenarios.

[close]

As I've said elsewhere in this thread, haven't really had a chance to skate anything very grindable this summer. I've left that to others.

Ollies and flip tricks and manuals obviously feel the same as any other hard wheel. Not sure why I would specifically talk about heelflips for example.

I've found they finish rotations just fine on things like 180s, and shove variations. Can't say the same about F4 97a I skated which stopped in their tracks. 97a basically couldn't even do a decent powerslide without instantly coming to a stop.

From what other people are saying about F4 97a, it sounds like we skated entirely different wheels. Maybe mine were one of the first batches and they've changed the formula since?

Flatground definitely didn't always feel the same to me, especially if the ground is smooth ish chalky, or nice concrete instead of the kind of asphalt that powerslides very well.

Anything that involves even a slight scoop felt gummier and didn't go as well compared to a hard wheel. Bigspins, tres, sw tres etc most noticeably. This is even kind of the case with f4 97s, but to a lesser, pretty much negligible extent.

With all due respect, it sounds like you rode around, did a few ollies, powerslides and reverts and declared that these wheels are going to make spitfire irrelevant

[juniormint]

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Skated my production 93a dragons one last time today before giving to a friend. Some more observations on grind drag:

Rockridge curbs (so those in the bay area have some reference). Ground ish rough ish but nothing 99 f4s cant handle. Curbs are pretty good, but I'm guessing nowhere near as icy as the venice curbs. Everything I previously said was true, but on curbs this smooth (or better), I could see myself getting used to pushing tricks like reg/sw slappy crooks a bit harder to compensate, and just getting used to the way these wheels climb onto curbs. Its pretty noticeably worse than a hard wheel after doing side by side comparisons, but if you value the smooth ride that much, you could probably adjust and deal with a bit more grind drag.

There's also a wooden box with metal coping there right now. If you wax the metal coping, it crooked grinds, tailslides etc just fine. But if its a little drier then it'll be noticeably stickier than f4s.

What I noticed about the drag for other tricks (smiths, 5-0s etc) is that its fine if you lock in perfectly... but if you don't lock in perfectly and have to adjust into the correct position, these aren't as forgiving as a hard wheel. I could see this being an even bigger problem on round rails where often you shimmy into a cross lock after your trucks make initial contact with the rail.

Again, a hearty coat of wax would solve most of these problems, but I really don't like waxing stuff too much, especially if there's a bunch of people skating the obstacle.

I don't skate around and between spots much nowadays, and even for spots with less ideal ground that I often skate, the increased grind friction, and other minor drawbacks, isn't worth the much smoother ride 90% of the time.

Still keeping my protoype 95as for the occasional days where I really dont want to push but still want to skate a little bit. Maybe the production 95 or 97as are going to be perfect

[close]

Not sure if I missed it in another of your comments, but how would you compare them to 97a spits, if you can?

[close]

I haven't skated a 97a f4 in a few months so much of this is based off of the best of my recollection, but 97 spits definitely feel harder for sure. I never really noticed a difference in wheelbite between 97 and 99 f4s, but with these I did notice myself being thrown off harder if I wheelbite.

I recall that 97 spits had similar issues on metal coping, but definitely not as bad as these. 97 spits also slappy better, dont drag on grinds as much etc, especially crooked grinds.... though both are worse than a 99 f4

When it comes to purely powerslides, both are very good, maybe I'd give the edge to these powell 93as actually, if anything just purely because of how pleasantly surprised I was by the powerslide, but never did a side by side test so hard to say, I don't find either wheel lacking in this department and am plenty happy with it. Its possible that the 93as are better for lip/bluntslides on certain surfaces too, definitely can't say for sure though.

The powell 93as are a lot lot smoother than the 97 f4s though. I know some others in this thread disagree, but imo its pretty clear cut, and even a few of my friends (who mostly skate 99 f4s but some have skated 97 f4s) agreed that these feel like a soft wheel that perform almost as good as a hard wheel... whereas 97 f4s are kind of a hard wheel like a 99 f4 thats just a little bit softer and more forgiving.

Basically, if you get a lot of wheelbite, or your skating is very heavily focused on grinds or slides on things that aren't super icy, I would get 97 f4s any day. If you want something smoother than 97 f4s, handles rough shit better, and grinds/slides aren't a very high priority for you, I'd get the dragons.

Ok, thanks for the response. I will likely stick with the 97a spits then - doing crooks and nose/tail slides I have found the difference to be someone negligible after a short period of adjustment coming from the 99a.

[tzhangdox]

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Skated my production 93a dragons one last time today before giving to a friend. Some more observations on grind drag:

Rockridge curbs (so those in the bay area have some reference). Ground ish rough ish but nothing 99 f4s cant handle. Curbs are pretty good, but I'm guessing nowhere near as icy as the venice curbs. Everything I previously said was true, but on curbs this smooth (or better), I could see myself getting used to pushing tricks like reg/sw slappy crooks a bit harder to compensate, and just getting used to the way these wheels climb onto curbs. Its pretty noticeably worse than a hard wheel after doing side by side comparisons, but if you value the smooth ride that much, you could probably adjust and deal with a bit more grind drag.

There's also a wooden box with metal coping there right now. If you wax the metal coping, it crooked grinds, tailslides etc just fine. But if its a little drier then it'll be noticeably stickier than f4s.

What I noticed about the drag for other tricks (smiths, 5-0s etc) is that its fine if you lock in perfectly... but if you don't lock in perfectly and have to adjust into the correct position, these aren't as forgiving as a hard wheel. I could see this being an even bigger problem on round rails where often you shimmy into a cross lock after your trucks make initial contact with the rail.

Again, a hearty coat of wax would solve most of these problems, but I really don't like waxing stuff too much, especially if there's a bunch of people skating the obstacle.

I don't skate around and between spots much nowadays, and even for spots with less ideal ground that I often skate, the increased grind friction, and other minor drawbacks, isn't worth the much smoother ride 90% of the time.

Still keeping my protoype 95as for the occasional days where I really dont want to push but still want to skate a little bit. Maybe the production 95 or 97as are going to be perfect

[close]

Not sure if I missed it in another of your comments, but how would you compare them to 97a spits, if you can?

[close]

I haven't skated a 97a f4 in a few months so much of this is based off of the best of my recollection, but 97 spits definitely feel harder for sure. I never really noticed a difference in wheelbite between 97 and 99 f4s, but with these I did notice myself being thrown off harder if I wheelbite.

I recall that 97 spits had similar issues on metal coping, but definitely not as bad as these. 97 spits also slappy better, dont drag on grinds as much etc, especially crooked grinds.... though both are worse than a 99 f4

When it comes to purely powerslides, both are very good, maybe I'd give the edge to these powell 93as actually, if anything just purely because of how pleasantly surprised I was by the powerslide, but never did a side by side test so hard to say, I don't find either wheel lacking in this department and am plenty happy with it. Its possible that the 93as are better for lip/bluntslides on certain surfaces too, definitely can't say for sure though.

The powell 93as are a lot lot smoother than the 97 f4s though. I know some others in this thread disagree, but imo its pretty clear cut, and even a few of my friends (who mostly skate 99 f4s but some have skated 97 f4s) agreed that these feel like a soft wheel that perform almost as good as a hard wheel... whereas 97 f4s are kind of a hard wheel like a 99 f4 thats just a little bit softer and more forgiving.

Basically, if you get a lot of wheelbite, or your skating is very heavily focused on grinds or slides on things that aren't super icy, I would get 97 f4s any day. If you want something smoother than 97 f4s, handles rough shit better, and grinds/slides aren't a very high priority for you, I'd get the dragons.

[close]

Ok, thanks for the response. I will likely stick with the 97a spits then - doing crooks and nose/tail slides I have found the difference to be someone negligible after a short period of adjustment coming from the 99a.

Yeah I generally agree too. Especially on concrete, skatelite etc. Its just certain metal coping and drier granite ledges where there's a difference. But again far less of a difference than the 93as vs these.

I suspect that the 95 or 97a bones could be a really good option when they come out (as long as the 95 doesnt feel like the preproduction batch I got, which almost feel/sound quieter than the production 93s I got).

Don't get me wrong the 93a dragons are a really really good wheel, but there's definitely still downsides to them.

[saltusnaut]

just popping in to say 97a f4 slides great and in my experience they do not feel bouncy.

[Cuban_Lynx]

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It’s the tensor mag of wheels….there you have it….

[close]

Yep. Can't wait to pair them with a slick and some tensors....easy vibes.

[close]

What's up with all the Mag Light hate? 90's Tensors sucked, but I got a pair of Mags for my daughter's set-up and I actually love them. It's wild how light they are, but still durable. I'm more of an AF1 guy, but still.

[close]

The axles bend really easily, hangers and baseplates deform and crack. Grind down stupidly fast. Also on certain metal coping they seem to catch.

Grind insane on concrete, turn great and love how light they are though. Definitely have a market, but a bit high for me and I don't want to get new trucks every month.

That makes sense. She's like 85lbs, so it's not a big deal. We've really only done any grinds on the nice metal coping at House of Vans. On the other hand, I'm almost 200lbs. I've really just pushed around and done some slappies/flatground.

[TwisT]

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It’s the tensor mag of wheels….there you have it….

[close]

Yep. Can't wait to pair them with a slick and some tensors....easy vibes.

[close]

What's up with all the Mag Light hate? 90's Tensors sucked, but I got a pair of Mags for my daughter's set-up and I actually love them. It's wild how light they are, but still durable. I'm more of an AF1 guy, but still.

[close]

The axles bend really easily, hangers and baseplates deform and crack. Grind down stupidly fast. Also on certain metal coping they seem to catch.

Grind insane on concrete, turn great and love how light they are though. Definitely have a market, but a bit high for me and I don't want to get new trucks every month.

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That makes sense. She's like 85lbs, so it's not a big deal. We've really only done any grinds on the nice metal coping at House of Vans. On the other hand, I'm almost 200lbs. I've really just pushed around and done some slappies/flatground.

I've had 3 pair and never bent the axel, but I understand experience may vary. The baseplates wear fast because they are magnesium (atleast in the original model) magnesium is softer as aluminium. Same thing happened with my destructo. While not optimal, I think it's a sacrifice you make when you chose to skate a lighter, less durable material. This catch on coping thing IDK, I'm more likely to blame myself over the truck for something like that.

They do turn pretty great, I went street skating last weekend and was really hyped on how I was swerving

[drinny]

just popping in to say 97a f4 slides great and in my experience they do not feel bouncy.

Same.

IMO a simple ‘90s (decade) urethane feeling wheel, bonus -no flatspots.

[manysnakes]

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What I don't get is people being like "I can skate so much longer". How are you that broken as a human where the small vibrations are what tire you out not actually pushing, jumping, and smashing into things.

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I say the same thing every time I see someone in running shoes! Toughen up, buttercup!

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Completely different. This is like debating if a specific density of insole foam would improve a 3km casual run.

Runners literally debate this kind of thing all the time.

[GetItStraitRideKrooked]

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For crooks with the 93A and 95A (moreso with 93A) I noticed a kind of break in period with sticking. Like when I first was skating the 93A's at the curb spot I was sticking on slappy crooks at first quite frequently. Waxing helped for sure.

But after a certain point, the sticking eased up and got to the point where I wasn't really sticking anymore.

Slappy crooks and sw slappy crooks are some of my favorite tricks, so just wanted to give my 2 cents since I saw someone asking about crooks on the dragons. I'm about to set up my production dragons for the first time so I'll give an update if I notice the initial sticking on them.

I didn't really notice the sticking as much on the 95A, but I feel like those had a slight break in period too.

For blunt slides, I can't do them personally but my homie has a set of production dragons and slappy blunts are not problem for him on them.

Really dig these wheels, IMO they are something special for sure and worth trying. George found the krabby patty secret formula or something. I do agree that Nine Club video was pretty weird though.

I'm also looking forward to the 95A and 97A X formula as well. Really want to try the 97A. I hope that the X Formula comes untreaded, that's my main complaint about the dragons.

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How long did it take for it to go away on the pre production 95a? And were your pre production 93/95a cored or coreless

Both my pre production 93A and 95A were uncored V6. I'd say probably a week or so with the 93A, and maybe a few days with the 95A. I slappy curbs pretty much every day though.

You know how your wheels will eventually start turning a slight light red from slappying red curbs? Once that's there, I stopped noticing the sticking on both the 93A and 95A.

Don't get me wrong, I can grind farther with a 99A, but the initial sticking on crooks definitely eased up for me.

[LebowskisRug]

Ya because they're fooled by bullshit and marketing and there's little objective data. Then every so often someone actually produces a meta analysis that demonstrates that the difference is far smaller. The best runners in the world often use stock shoes without much in the way of custom orthotics because midsole technology is so good now yet every dickhead out there that claims they need $200+ insoles to run 5k could benefit more from doing strength and mobility work to become a less shitty human and require less correction.

I dealt with the same thing in cycling for years. I had custom orthotics and custom shoes because my arches and ankles would collapse and introduce pelvic instability up the chain. My PT worked with 4 of the biggest teams at the time and none of them had any issues. The solution was fairly simple- more work off the bike to build basic ankle stability pelvic stability. Took 20min 3 times a week. Within 5 months I was able to use bone stock insoles and shoes.

The whole point of this is to demonstrate that people often fall for marketing and band aid solutions which mask the true problem.

[PuffinMuffin]

Ya because they're fooled by bullshit and marketing and there's little objective data. Then every so often someone actually produces a meta analysis that demonstrates that the difference is far smaller. The best runners in the world often use stock shoes without much in the way of custom orthotics because midsole technology is so good now yet every dickhead out there that claims they need $200+ insoles to run 5k could benefit more from doing strength and mobility work to become a less shitty human and require less correction.

I dealt with the same thing in cycling for years. I had custom orthotics and custom shoes because my arches and ankles would collapse and introduce pelvic instability up the chain. My PT worked with 4 of the biggest teams at the time and none of them had any issues. The solution was fairly simple- more work off the bike to build basic ankle stability pelvic stability. Took 20min 3 times a week. Within 5 months I was able to use bone stock insoles and shoes.

The whole point of this is to demonstrate that people often fall for marketing and band aid solutions which mask the true problem.

Mind sharing your ankle physical therapy exercises somewhere? I could definitely use some greater dorsiflexion.

[manysnakes]

Ya because they're fooled by bullshit and marketing and there's little objective data. Then every so often someone actually produces a meta analysis that demonstrates that the difference is far smaller. The best runners in the world often use stock shoes without much in the way of custom orthotics because midsole technology is so good now yet every dickhead out there that claims they need $200+ insoles to run 5k could benefit more from doing strength and mobility work to become a less shitty human and require less correction.

I dealt with the same thing in cycling for years. I had custom orthotics and custom shoes because my arches and ankles would collapse and introduce pelvic instability up the chain. My PT worked with 4 of the biggest teams at the time and none of them had any issues. The solution was fairly simple- more work off the bike to build basic ankle stability pelvic stability. Took 20min 3 times a week. Within 5 months I was able to use bone stock insoles and shoes.

The whole point of this is to demonstrate that people often fall for marketing and band aid solutions which mask the true problem.

[tzhangdox]

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It’s the tensor mag of wheels….there you have it….

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Yep. Can't wait to pair them with a slick and some tensors....easy vibes.

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What's up with all the Mag Light hate? 90's Tensors sucked, but I got a pair of Mags for my daughter's set-up and I actually love them. It's wild how light they are, but still durable. I'm more of an AF1 guy, but still.

[close]

The axles bend really easily, hangers and baseplates deform and crack. Grind down stupidly fast. Also on certain metal coping they seem to catch.

Grind insane on concrete, turn great and love how light they are though. Definitely have a market, but a bit high for me and I don't want to get new trucks every month.

[close]

That makes sense. She's like 85lbs, so it's not a big deal. We've really only done any grinds on the nice metal coping at House of Vans. On the other hand, I'm almost 200lbs. I've really just pushed around and done some slappies/flatground.

[close]

I've had 3 pair and never bent the axel, but I understand experience may vary. The baseplates wear fast because they are magnesium (atleast in the original model) magnesium is softer as aluminium. Same thing happened with my destructo. While not optimal, I think it's a sacrifice you make when you chose to skate a lighter, less durable material. This catch on coping thing IDK, I'm more likely to blame myself over the truck for something like that.

They do turn pretty great, I went street skating last weekend and was really hyped on how I was swerving

Yeah, I'm just shy of 200 pounds and my axles were pretty bent and had a small crack near the pivot cup on the baseplate after about a week. Really really loved how they grinded though. Except for on certain coping. I'd also like to blame myself, but had a friends board and did a side to side and it truly was night and day. It wasn't even sticky or dry too. Probably not all metal, but there is definitely material that the magnesium just doesn't grind properly

[TwisT]

Any guesses on the factory these USA MADE swirl wheels from TGM what other brands use them?

https://tgmskateboards.com/blank-skateboard-wheels-swirl-99a-usa-made-black-orange-52mm-x-31mm/

[LebowskisRug]

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Ya because they're fooled by bullshit and marketing and there's little objective data. Then every so often someone actually produces a meta analysis that demonstrates that the difference is far smaller. The best runners in the world often use stock shoes without much in the way of custom orthotics because midsole technology is so good now yet every dickhead out there that claims they need $200+ insoles to run 5k could benefit more from doing strength and mobility work to become a less shitty human and require less correction.

I dealt with the same thing in cycling for years. I had custom orthotics and custom shoes because my arches and ankles would collapse and introduce pelvic instability up the chain. My PT worked with 4 of the biggest teams at the time and none of them had any issues. The solution was fairly simple- more work off the bike to build basic ankle stability pelvic stability. Took 20min 3 times a week. Within 5 months I was able to use bone stock insoles and shoes.

The whole point of this is to demonstrate that people often fall for marketing and band aid solutions which mask the true problem.

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Mind sharing your ankle physical therapy exercises somewhere? I could definitely use some greater dorsiflexion.

Much of what I was prescribed at the time is now popularized by Ben Patrick AKA KneesOverToesGuy:

-Weighted calf and tibia raises. Also some lateral ankle movements with weight.
-Single Leg Romanian Deadlifts with DBs
-Split squats where the knee went over the toe.
-Cossack squats.
-The kookiest sounding one that is actually quite hard is to stand 1 footed on something like a mattress with your eyes closed and try to balance.
-I was also prescribed a lot of hamstring and calve stretches.

His basic progressions are pretty similar and started assisted, then unassisted, then weighted. I've seen you ride or are knowledgeable about bikes so before the PT I was using custom Specialized S-Works shoes they normally give the pros and I had both D2 and Riivo orthotics. The custom shoes were similar to consumer models but generally used a different upper and a stiffer carbon layup near the rear of the shoe with a higher arch. I was using Speedplays with a bunch of wedges and shims and bullshit. After I was able to buy off the shelf S-Works shoes and basically run the BG Fit orthotics that I built up a tad in the rear foot using some firm rubber. I ran stock Dura Ace pedals with zero shims and bullshit.

I've done something similar to recover from rupturing all the ligaments in my ankle last year as well. I am still on a quest to find a stable skate shoe with the board feel I prefer, but I can actually skate Vans with no issue.

[Slugboi22]

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just popping in to say 97a f4 slides great and in my experience they do not feel bouncy.

[close]

Same.

IMO a simple ‘90s (decade) urethane feeling wheel, bonus -no flatspots.

Yeah i have the 97A f4 classic shape in 56mm and have used it in multiple scenarios on multiple boards. i find that they slide great and feel very responsive. there’s a slight bounce when compared to 99a f4s but i expected that. i also think they are a pretty fast wheel but again, like most soft wheels they slow down on smoother skatepark concrete. on chunkier stuff they handle it really well. I have no reason to try “dragons,” as it seems there’s way more downsides than upsides. also not to keen on buying a product named “dragons.”  kinda corny lmao

[LebowskisRug]

I mean the body of evidence so far is a Dan Corrigan video where he skates a park and a brick spot, The hokey Nein Club ad on super iced curbs, and a single poster on Slap that admits to not doing many grind on them. They are not bad wheels, but they're not necessarily life changing.

[FuzzGNU]

Where in the United States do you live that has not even a curb to grind? You literally claim these wheels grind and slide fine so it's weird you claim that then say you haven't grinded.

Frankly at this point I think you're full of shit. I am not even that great and can revert on 97s just fine on just about any surface. Again- I didn't realize I even had them for a fairly long time. You'd have to be going really slow for that. And you can still control the revert.

Most of your posts in the last few months seem to be about these wheels, which there are now obvious glaring holes in your story about what you tested them doing. Powell should send you a box for your hard work.

Also since I did see your post history why did you pay for Fallens?

The poster in me wants to laugh that you're digging 15 pages deep into post history seething over plastic wheel opinions.

But the empath in me wants to ask you how your week has been and ask if everything is going okay in your personal life these days.

Hope you're doing well. Not meaning to upset anybody here.

[LebowskisRug]

Does the skater in you actually want to be able to do the grinds and slides required to actually test these wheels? I mean, it literally took me less than 6 clicks on my phone and you accidentally exposing the fact that you haven't (and maybe can't) do the stuff required to draw the strong conclusions that you're drawing.

That's just the "I hate bullshit propagated without evidence" in me.

[FuzzGNU]

Does the skater in you actually want to be able to do the grinds and slides required to actually test these wheels? I mean, it literally took me less than 6 clicks on my phone and you accidentally exposing the fact that you haven't (and maybe can't) do the stuff required to draw the strong conclusions that you're drawing.

That's just the "I hate bullshit propagated without evidence" in me.

I think you and your forbidden 4" need to cool off and take a break from the internet for the day.

[minilogoflow]

Does the skater in you actually want to be able to do the grinds and slides required to actually test these wheels? I mean, it literally took me less than 6 clicks on my phone and you accidentally exposing the fact that you haven't (and maybe can't) do the stuff required to draw the strong conclusions that you're drawing.

That's just the "I hate bullshit propagated without evidence" in me.

Dude you come off as a know it all, smug asshole. Most of the Pals here are whiny self righteous Redditors but God damn dude you really take the cake. Many people on here have given their opinions on these wheels, and I'm not saying they're perfect, but you wanna flex that "I'm a real skater shit" and call out people for their gear choices and abilities like that shit matters. People have different experiences with the same gear all the time. Go ahead and look through my post history and try to shit fling IDGAF, that kind of stuff is just straight up bitch made behavior and shows how much of a terminally online dork you are.