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Skateboarding => Shoes & Gear => Topic started by: Bigwheelbite on February 12, 2021, 12:21:03 PM
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Just wondered if anyone else notices that Made in China decks (Dwindle) are nowhere near as good as Bareback and P.S Stix etc?
Have to say its disgusting that all the Dwindle brands sacrifice quality over profit margins. Was shocked to discover brands like Almost & Palace having their decks made in China. No wonder they've been able to keep them under 50.
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Skated a few enjoi’s last year and actually really liked em. I got one of the new deal x enjoi boards they did and I think it was ps stix but I could be wrong. But then I skated a team board after that and felt just as good.
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Idk, I have ridden some of their decks in the past couple of years, and I thought they were fine. I wish they had some options for mellow kicks mellow concave, but also I like that they support some cool dudes, and I like a lot of the videos that they put out. I’m not too conflicted about the whole thing and have a bbs board right now, but this whole chinawood thing/is dwindle terrible has been talked about to death ever since that first ad that had Chet Thomas and Gershon Mosley and the whole team standing behind the product.
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I wish they had some options for mellow kicks mellow concave
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I loved the palace boards I skated, dwindle quality has gone up alot the past few years. Same with girl/chocolate apparently from what people told me.
Logistically it makes sense to make boards in china if you're a big brand like crailtap/dwindle or a company based in Europe and it helps the shops/distributions outside of the US also. As Americans were kinda spoiled because we get to skate made in mexico/USA boards. People in Europe/Asia/Austrailia get the made in china pro boards.
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i heard their shapes are far more consistent that any north american woodshops
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I've skated MIC blank decks before. They were fine. Making decks isn't brain surgery.
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The boards are great. Been skating dwindle wood for ages and never had an issue. I also make wooden toys out of skateboards and dwindle wood is the best to work with as some companies use patchwork ply under the top layers. Also the single press helps with consistency.
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I have a Samarria Enjoi deck that skates just fine. I feel like companies based in China (Dwindle & Crailtap) have switched up their quality control process a bit and their decks have improved.
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Point is we shouldn't be supporting 'made in china' or brands that are making their product there.
It should be kept as local as possible and China shouldn't even be an option tbf.
Anything made in china is not going to be as good.
European brands should stick to having their wood made in Europe such as HLC and the rest of the world should be BBS or PS Stix in Mexico. The only decks that should be made in China should be local brands based in China or South East Asia.
It's just pathetic that a European or American brand have their wood pressed in China. People need to wake up and think about what their supporting...
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Dwindle decks have always been good to me. I personally don’t care is skate stuff is made in China.
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Point is we shouldn't be supporting 'made in china' or brands that are making their product there.
It should be kept as local as possible and China shouldn't even be an option tbf.
Anything made in china is not going to be as good.
European brands should stick to having their wood made in Europe such as HLC and the rest of the world should be BBS or PS Stix in Mexico. The only decks that should be made in China should be local brands based in China or South East Asia.
It's just pathetic that a European or American brand have their wood pressed in China. People need to wake up and think about what their supporting...
Why?
I live in Europe. Why would I care if my board is made in china ?
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Dwindle decks have always been good to me. I personally don’t care is skate stuff is made in China.
We should though...
Not about supporting MADE IN CHINA
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OP is a trumper confirmed
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Or a troll
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Just wondered if anyone else notices that Made in China decks (Dwindle) are nowhere near as good as Bareback and P.S Stix etc?
Have to say its disgusting that all the Dwindle brands sacrifice quality over profit margins. Was shocked to discover brands like Almost & Palace having their decks made in China. No wonder they've been able to keep them under 50.
Respectfully disagree.
On the subject of quality only, they beat every woodshop out there when it comes to board dimension consistency (looking at you DLX); you get the same shit as advertised, everytime. The boards are always crispy (R7s being the best of the lot imo), stiff and poppy, and always with smooth rails (not that I care, but PS is sloppy as fuck these days here). But along with Steep kicks you have to like that stiff, epoxy board feel some do, some don't, and it's too bad the mellow/mellow or mellow/medium options are gone (tho Madness still has a few in those combinations for now).
I blame it on P2s, if you liked them (or VX), you like the way DSM boards feel. Skating anything but NHS after a dwindle feels waterlogged and dead.
Always found PS more prone to chipping than any other wood shop and certainly prefer BBS over PS (BBS pop lasts longer than PS's 1-2 week popsog). As far as durability goes, DSM keeps pop longer but they all last around the same when it comes to razor tail.
I've a Palace and Almost currently setup in my quiver and prefer the Dwindle feel to anything else I've got because I prefer that feel.
The Impact lights are where DSM fails, the shapes are different than the normal shapes and the boards are the heaviest out there this side of Slave (they are only 'light' compared to the the old Full or Double Impacts which are MIA for years).
What I find odd is that Primitive decks are significantly lighter than anything out there yet are made in the same woodshops as a lot of other mainstream brands.
Plus, not sure what those other woodshops or brands are doing:
https://dwindle.com/sustainability
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damn dude where you finna get your electronics from?!
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Dwindle decks have always been good to me. I personally don’t care is skate stuff is made in China.
ergh carbon footprint for one and doing your bit to keep it as local as possible. All European brands should have their decks made in Spain by HLC or their own countries.
damn dude where you finna get your electronics from?!
Plenty of electronics not made in China ;)
Or a troll
LOL how so? What for starting a thread for open discussion - yeah OK, good one! Jog on...
OP is a trumper confirmed
Really? Not even gonna entertain this level of low IQ
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Just wondered if anyone else notices that Made in China decks (Dwindle) are nowhere near as good as Bareback and P.S Stix etc?
Have to say its disgusting that all the Dwindle brands sacrifice quality over profit margins. Was shocked to discover brands like Almost & Palace having their decks made in China. No wonder they've been able to keep them under 50.
Respectfully disagree.
On the subject of quality only, they beat every woodshop out there when it comes to board dimension consistency (looking at you DLX); you get the same shit as advertised, everytime. The boards are always crispy (R7s being the best of the lot imo), stiff and poppy, and always with smooth rails (not that I care, but PS is sloppy as fuck these days here). But along with Steep kicks you have to like that stiff, epoxy board feel some do, some don't, and it's too bad the mellow/mellow or mellow/medium options are gone (tho Madness still has a few in those combinations for now).
I blame it on P2s, if you liked them (or VX), you like the way DSM boards feel. Skating anything but NHS after a dwindle feels waterlogged and dead.
Always found PS more prone to chipping than any other wood shop and certainly prefer BBS over PS (BBS pop lasts longer than PS's 1-2 week popsog). As far as durability goes, DSM keeps pop longer but they all last around the same when it comes to razor tail.
I've a Palace and Almost currently setup in my quiver and prefer the Dwindle feel to anything else I've got because I prefer that feel.
The Impact lights are where DSM fails, the shapes are different than the normal shapes and the boards are the heaviest out there this side of Slave (they are only 'light' compared to the the old Full or Double Impacts which are MIA for years).
What I find odd is that Primitive decks are significantly lighter than anything out there yet are made in the same woodshops as a lot of other mainstream brands.
Each to their own I guess but from a moral POV the skateboard industry should not be supporting made in China period. Everything made in China just isn't as good - It's a known fact. Like I said, brands should be trying their best to have products made as close to home as possible. Anyone who doesn't care obvs gives zero fucks about the planet.
BBS wood is hands down the best. All brands that have their wood pressed here actually care about giving skaters the best product possible.
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name a common electronic item not manufactured in china
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Cant you write into the New York Times about your stupid trade war bullshit
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I live in New Zealand and China is closest.
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Dwindle decks have always been good to me. I personally don’t care is skate stuff is made in China.
Each to their own I guess but from a moral POV the skateboard industry should not be supporting made in China period. Everything made in China just isn't as good - It's a known fact. Like I said, brands should be trying their best to have products made as close to home as possible. Anyone who doesn't care obvs gives zero fucks about the planet.
BBS wood is hands down the best. All brands that have their wood pressed here actually care about giving skaters the best product possible.
To say everything made in China is bad is a stretch. While there is a lot of low quality items made there, they also manufacture high quality items. They manufacture one of everything so it’s easy to find good and bad examples.
When you have a product that breaks or stops working after two years, it’s not always fair to blame the person who manufactured it. It was likely designed by someone who was told by marketing/ceo to “make this last 2 years, since our new item will release then”. Planned obsolescence is very much a reality in all industries.
I’m a strong supporter of buying from small brands, locally and not supporting the Amazon’s of the world. But I’ll never turn away a product made in China if it has a good reputation.
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I live in New Zealand and China is closest.
And in Europe we dont view China the same as maybe the US does.
I've no preference or allegiance to either side.
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Dwindle decks have always been good to me. I personally don’t care is skate stuff is made in China.
We should though...
Not about supporting MADE IN CHINA
Chinese people need jobs too tho
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Dwindle decks have always been good to me. I personally don’t care is skate stuff is made in China.
We should though...
Not about supporting MADE IN CHINA
They have plenty already without the tiny skateboard industry thanks ;)
I live in New Zealand and China is closest.
So it would make sense for NZ and those that are closest to China as I mentioned...
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I live in New Zealand and China is closest.
And in Europe we dont view China the same as maybe the US does.
I've no preference or allegiance to either side.
As I mentioned already, carbon footprint alone is enough of a reason not to - but its clear that a lot of (prob most) ppl give zero fucks about that hence why we are where we are today. Plenty of good wood shops in Europe to not have to go all the way to China.
Not rocket science - it's doing the right thing
What happened to just being more aware and ethical about supporting where shit is made?
Or does support your local mean jack shit now?
Cant you write into the New York Times about your stupid trade war bullshit
lol good one - Pointless reply!
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nice to hear you’re an environmentalist- what other steps are you taking to not contribute to pollution? it’s a big issue of concern for me as well so i’d love to hear the ways you help
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if you post on slap you're destroying the environment. electricity aint free ya know
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nice to hear you’re an environmentalist- what other steps are you taking to not contribute to pollution? it’s a big issue of concern for me as well so i’d love to hear the ways you help
Not supporting made in china stuff where possible for starters ;)
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i said what OTHER steps
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I don’t own a car, I ride a bike and I buy two boards a year. Chill the fuck out!!
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I don’t own a car, I ride a bike and I buy two boards a year. Chill the fuck out!!
i didnt think i was talking to you?!?
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You weren’t and I wasn’t. I was talking to the op. Sorry for the confusion :)
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Resin 7's are probably the best boards i've skated in the last year
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OP are you saying buy American? Because BBS is pressed in Mexico. Or are you saying buy from anywhere but China? If the latter, that sounds a bit Sinophobic to say the least. It's not like things manufactured outside China are automatically and magically of a higher quality. It still depends on the level of quality control, which varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, even outside of China. Also, do you consider yourself a capitalist? Capitalism dictates you should produce in the most efficient - ahem cheapest - way possible with the least government intervention possible. If you're arguing for tariffs and other types protectionism, that sounds a bit socialist or maybe even communist, which is what the Chinese are, at least nominally.
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Dwindle decks have always been good to me. I personally don’t care is skate stuff is made in China.
ergh carbon footprint for one and doing your bit to keep it as local as possible. All European brands should have their decks made in Spain by HLC or their own countries.
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damn dude where you finna get your electronics from?!
Plenty of electronics not made in China ;)
LOL how so? What for starting a thread for open discussion - yeah OK, good one! Jog on...
Expand Quote
OP is a trumper confirmed
Really? Not even gonna entertain this level of low IQ
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Just wondered if anyone else notices that Made in China decks (Dwindle) are nowhere near as good as Bareback and P.S Stix etc?
Have to say its disgusting that all the Dwindle brands sacrifice quality over profit margins. Was shocked to discover brands like Almost & Palace having their decks made in China. No wonder they've been able to keep them under 50.
Respectfully disagree.
On the subject of quality only, they beat every woodshop out there when it comes to board dimension consistency (looking at you DLX); you get the same shit as advertised, everytime. The boards are always crispy (R7s being the best of the lot imo), stiff and poppy, and always with smooth rails (not that I care, but PS is sloppy as fuck these days here). But along with Steep kicks you have to like that stiff, epoxy board feel some do, some don't, and it's too bad the mellow/mellow or mellow/medium options are gone (tho Madness still has a few in those combinations for now).
I blame it on P2s, if you liked them (or VX), you like the way DSM boards feel. Skating anything but NHS after a dwindle feels waterlogged and dead.
Always found PS more prone to chipping than any other wood shop and certainly prefer BBS over PS (BBS pop lasts longer than PS's 1-2 week popsog). As far as durability goes, DSM keeps pop longer but they all last around the same when it comes to razor tail.
I've a Palace and Almost currently setup in my quiver and prefer the Dwindle feel to anything else I've got because I prefer that feel.
The Impact lights are where DSM fails, the shapes are different than the normal shapes and the boards are the heaviest out there this side of Slave (they are only 'light' compared to the the old Full or Double Impacts which are MIA for years).
What I find odd is that Primitive decks are significantly lighter than anything out there yet are made in the same woodshops as a lot of other mainstream brands.
Each to their own I guess but from a moral POV the skateboard industry should not be supporting made in China period. Everything made in China just isn't as good - It's a known fact. Like I said, brands should be trying their best to have products made as close to home as possible. Anyone who doesn't care obvs gives zero fucks about the planet.
BBS wood is hands down the best. All brands that have their wood pressed here actually care about giving skaters the best product possible.
I’m happy you are masking an attempt to be conscious about the environment, but the whole ‘China wood is worse’ argument doesn’t really make sense.
1- Yes, there is a carbon footprint associated with shipping. But almost none of the major woodshops are anywhere near maple forests. All of it has to be shipped, the further away the worse. But US-made doesn’t exactly mean ‘green’. Also makes whole ‘made in Spain’ thing irrelevant, unless there are maple forests nearby. As good-quality maple requires cold winters to create a dense grain, pretty sure Mexican factories have decent carbon footprint.
2- quality. Low quality boards snap/delam/lose pop faster (but maybe only slightly more so, in the big picture) than higher-quality ones. As people said, it depends on the wood shop. There are shit boards in the US as well as China. US-made doesn’t always equal better quality, so this argument is not really relevant.
Of course, there are other reasons to support domestic products- maybe supporting a smaller local company. It not wanting to participate in sweatshop labor. But do domestic (and Mexican) factories use toxic chemicals? Epoxies? Non-biodegradable glues? This brings us to 3
3- In the end, unless you are buying a board made to last (like a flight or a lib tech- lib is made by actual skaters), you are supporting an incredibly unsustainable industry. Complaining about the carbon footprint of a toxic chemical-lathered unsustainably grown maple sticks made to snap in within a month is missing the point.
The whole fucking thing is unsustainable. I’m not saying you should buy China wood. But I’m saying that if you are worried about your impact on the environment, you need to rethink about the disposable nature of skating in general.
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https://comb.io/REGk4C
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(https://i.postimg.cc/X7tM8HQW/girl-gun-fuck-yeah1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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to me dwindle is the best chinese made product hands down. and its as good as any u.s. woodshop. i think primewood has great decks so far as u.s. production. alot of woodshops are inconsistent (as stated earlier in the post) and during this pandemic that seems to have only gotten worse.
saw sean cliver just released a strangelove board that took nearly a full year for the woodshop to get to him. thats insane.
also op i don't think dwindle uses china wood. chinese maple is not highly prized for skate decks, i think if i recall dwindle gets hard-rock great lakes american maple shipped to china to create the veneers they use. so its american wood (not china wood as you state in the title) pressed by chinese labor in a factory designed by rodney mullen.
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Yes agreed, pollution and unethical practices only occur in China. This is why I only buy made in US or EU goods even though the materials are sourced from China. It makes me sleep better at night knowing that the underpaid and overworked workers are not Chinese
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I haven’t ridden a China made board since crailtap initially moved out there in what, 2007ish? I can’t remember exactly. But what I do remember is strictly riding girl boards all the way back to the late 90s and never had a problem with them. Then come the mid 2000 (06,07?) and I buy a brand new girl deck. Snapped it on flat ground after less than 30min. I attributed it to a bad landing/fluke and bought a new one the next day. This time the board lasted a bit longer, maybe a day or two but again, snapped under some absurd situation.
Went back to the skate shop to talk about it and this is when I hear a rumor they were now made in China. Since then I make it a point to only buy from BBS/Generator made in Mexico. Been pretty happy ever since. To be fair, maybe the China wood has improved? I wouldn’t know and probably won’t be switching any time soon.
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Isn't HLC the woodshop from Jart? Hard pass.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbkLpl_jnuo
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I really like dwindle wood - and couldn’t give a fuck where it’s pressed .
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I take the OP's point about carbon footprint, but chopping down trees is already on the negative side of the balance sheet, so you're blowing it from the jump.
Now, regarding their claims of quality issues...
If a brand specifies cheaper veneers & lower grade glue, that'll be what you end up buying/riding, regardless of country of manufacture.
DSM makes a fine pro level product, because Dwindle didn't cheap out on the material specs. The price point/toy store stuff is likely spec'd to come in at a lower cost & maybe wont last as long, but to say that a manufacturing powerhouse like China is incapable of producing top notch stuff just wreaks of veiled anti Chinese sentiment to me.
It's typically labor costs that drive companies to manufacture outside of their home countries, and in the case of the epoxy resins, environmental prohibitions as well.
Anybody that knows English cars/motorbikes well can tell you about Lucas electrical components, the problems that bedeviled them, and their reputation for failure. Made right there in the UK, so it's got to been good, right?!?
Lucas manufactured to the specs demanded by their clients, and when those clients cut corners, cost wise, in order to bring their products in a a lower price, EVERYBODY'S reputation suffered.
Their slogan was "Lucas: Prince of Darkness," meant to imply that they brought illumination to the dark night just outside your vehicle, but after a while that same slogan came to bite them in the fanny when their lesser spec'd wiring looms, headlights, fuses, etc. failed at an alarming rate, leaving motorists stranded without lights or worse, an operating engine.
All that while, Lucas had been making components for higher end marques like Rolls & Bentley, who were willing to shell out for the good stuff, and those brands had considerably fewer electrical issues.
Took Lucas half a century to shake the stank on their name.
I don't ride Chinese wood, because I've got plenty of access to stuff produced around here, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Chinese deck, based solely on where it was made.
Perhaps if the OP wanted, they could develop a wood free method of producing decks that perform the same as maple bloards do?
Elsewise, maybe it's a good idea to frame your position as a question of what can be done, rather than "FUCK THEM DUDES!"
How often this topic gonna come up, anyway? Haven't we discussed the matter to death already?
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I take the OP's point about carbon footprint, but chopping down trees is already on the negative side of the balance sheet, so you're blowing it from the jump.
Now, regarding their claims of quality issues...
If a brand specifies cheaper veneers & lower grade glue, that'll be what you end up buying/riding, regardless of country of manufacture.
DSM makes a fine pro level product, because Dwindle didn't cheap out on the material specs. The price point/toy store stuff is likely spec'd to come in at a lower cost & maybe wont last as long, but to say that a manufacturing powerhouse like China is incapable of producing top notch stuff just wreaks of veiled anti Chinese sentiment to me.
It's typically labor costs that drive companies to manufacture outside of their home countries, and in the case of the epoxy resins, environmental prohibitions as well.
Anybody that knows English cars/motorbikes well can tell you about Lucas electrical components, the problems that bedeviled them, and their reputation for failure. Made right there in the UK, so it's got to been good, right?!?
Lucas manufactured to the specs demanded by their clients, and when those clients cut corners, cost wise, in order to bring their products in a a lower price, EVERYBODY'S reputation suffered.
Their slogan was "Lucas: Prince of Darkness," meant to imply that they brought illumination to the dark night just outside your vehicle, but after a while that same slogan came to bite them in the fanny when their lesser spec'd wiring looms, headlights, fuses, etc. failed at an alarming rate, leaving motorists stranded without lights or worse, an operating engine.
All that while, Lucas had been making components for higher end marques like Rolls & Bentley, who were willing to shell out for the good stuff, and those brands had considerably fewer electrical issues.
Took Lucas half a century to shake the stank on their name.
I don't ride Chinese wood, because I've got plenty of access to stuff produced around here, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Chinese deck, based solely on where it was made.
Perhaps if the OP wanted, they could develop a wood free method of producing decks that perform the same as maple bloards do?
Elsewise, maybe it's a good idea to frame your position as a question of what can be done, rather than "FUCK THEM DUDES!"
How often this topic gonna come up, anyway? Haven't we discussed the matter to death already?
Countless times, yes.
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Two decks ago I skated an Enjoi/New Deal R7 and it was honestly the best one I ever skated. Better overall finish than NA boards and perfect snappy pop even with the kicks worn out.
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I take the OP's point about carbon footprint, but chopping down trees is already on the negative side of the balance sheet, so you're blowing it from the jump.
Now, regarding their claims of quality issues...
If a brand specifies cheaper veneers & lower grade glue, that'll be what you end up buying/riding, regardless of country of manufacture.
DSM makes a fine pro level product, because Dwindle didn't cheap out on the material specs. The price point/toy store stuff is likely spec'd to come in at a lower cost & maybe wont last as long, but to say that a manufacturing powerhouse like China is incapable of producing top notch stuff just wreaks of veiled anti Chinese sentiment to me.
It's typically labor costs that drive companies to manufacture outside of their home countries, and in the case of the epoxy resins, environmental prohibitions as well.
Anybody that knows English cars/motorbikes well can tell you about Lucas electrical components, the problems that bedeviled them, and their reputation for failure. Made right there in the UK, so it's got to been good, right?!?
Lucas manufactured to the specs demanded by their clients, and when those clients cut corners, cost wise, in order to bring their products in a a lower price, EVERYBODY'S reputation suffered.
Their slogan was "Lucas: Prince of Darkness," meant to imply that they brought illumination to the dark night just outside your vehicle, but after a while that same slogan came to bite them in the fanny when their lesser spec'd wiring looms, headlights, fuses, etc. failed at an alarming rate, leaving motorists stranded without lights or worse, an operating engine.
All that while, Lucas had been making components for higher end marques like Rolls & Bentley, who were willing to shell out for the good stuff, and those brands had considerably fewer electrical issues.
Took Lucas half a century to shake the stank on their name.
I don't ride Chinese wood, because I've got plenty of access to stuff produced around here, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Chinese deck, based solely on where it was made.
Perhaps if the OP wanted, they could develop a wood free method of producing decks that perform the same as maple bloards do?
Elsewise, maybe it's a good idea to frame your position as a question of what can be done, rather than "FUCK THEM DUDES!"
How often this topic gonna come up, anyway? Haven't we discussed the matter to death already?
fucking lobster backs with their positive grounds and whitworth tooling.....also resin 7s are the only chinese boards ill skate. everything else feels dead on arrival.
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I really like dwindle wood - and couldn’t give a fuck where it’s pressed .
But u so should...
This is the problem though isn't it - most ppl 'don't give a fuck' which is why were in this mess in the first place
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I take the OP's point about carbon footprint, but chopping down trees is already on the negative side of the balance sheet, so you're blowing it from the jump.
Now, regarding their claims of quality issues...
If a brand specifies cheaper veneers & lower grade glue, that'll be what you end up buying/riding, regardless of country of manufacture.
DSM makes a fine pro level product, because Dwindle didn't cheap out on the material specs. The price point/toy store stuff is likely spec'd to come in at a lower cost & maybe wont last as long, but to say that a manufacturing powerhouse like China is incapable of producing top notch stuff just wreaks of veiled anti Chinese sentiment to me.
It's typically labor costs that drive companies to manufacture outside of their home countries, and in the case of the epoxy resins, environmental prohibitions as well.
Anybody that knows English cars/motorbikes well can tell you about Lucas electrical components, the problems that bedeviled them, and their reputation for failure. Made right there in the UK, so it's got to been good, right?!?
Lucas manufactured to the specs demanded by their clients, and when those clients cut corners, cost wise, in order to bring their products in a a lower price, EVERYBODY'S reputation suffered.
Their slogan was "Lucas: Prince of Darkness," meant to imply that they brought illumination to the dark night just outside your vehicle, but after a while that same slogan came to bite them in the fanny when their lesser spec'd wiring looms, headlights, fuses, etc. failed at an alarming rate, leaving motorists stranded without lights or worse, an operating engine.
All that while, Lucas had been making components for higher end marques like Rolls & Bentley, who were willing to shell out for the good stuff, and those brands had considerably fewer electrical issues.
Took Lucas half a century to shake the stank on their name.
I don't ride Chinese wood, because I've got plenty of access to stuff produced around here, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Chinese deck, based solely on where it was made.
Perhaps if the OP wanted, they could develop a wood free method of producing decks that perform the same as maple bloards do?
Elsewise, maybe it's a good idea to frame your position as a question of what can be done, rather than "FUCK THEM DUDES!"
How often this topic gonna come up, anyway? Haven't we discussed the matter to death already?
Agreed, maybe the approach should be - "what can be done?" instead but on the other hand most brands simply don't need to be going to get shit made in China.
And yeah gone over it countless times but ya'll still here chiming in with your 2 cents! ;)
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BBS and HLC all day...
And yeah if skateboarding is already pretty unsustainable then even more reason to be more aware of the carbon footprint no?! Therefore not supporting made (or pressed) in China - whatever the fuck u wanna call it!
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I'll happily (and do) skate chinese wood, I live in the UK so carbon footprint is about the same as buying a US presses deck...so makes no odds to me as long as it's built in a good quality factory to the specs that I like skating.
Would I skate UK pressed decks? Absolutely if there was a factory here turning out decent decks..
Would I skate a HLC deck? Maybe... but Jart isn't exactly a company that I feel any urge to support.
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Whats the difference between made in china or made in mexico? manufacturing happens in both countries for lower costs.I dont really see any difference.
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Whats the difference between made in china or made in mexico? manufacturing happens in both countries for lower costs.I dont really see any difference.
Less transportation costs and less pollution from transportation. I would assume workers in Mexico get paid slightly better. Also the two biggest Woodshops in Mexico: BBS and PS Stix have a way better reputation than any of the Chinese woodshops.
Some industries have moved their production back to western countries, since automation has removed their main reason to produce off shore: lower wage standards and less workers rights. You do not have to pay your machines a living wage. Do you think this could happen for skateboard production as well?
Is it possible to produce a deck with few or no human workers?
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I take the OP's point about carbon footprint, but chopping down trees is already on the negative side of the balance sheet, so you're blowing it from the jump.
Now, regarding their claims of quality issues...
If a brand specifies cheaper veneers & lower grade glue, that'll be what you end up buying/riding, regardless of country of manufacture.
DSM makes a fine pro level product, because Dwindle didn't cheap out on the material specs. The price point/toy store stuff is likely spec'd to come in at a lower cost & maybe wont last as long, but to say that a manufacturing powerhouse like China is incapable of producing top notch stuff just wreaks of veiled anti Chinese sentiment to me.
It's typically labor costs that drive companies to manufacture outside of their home countries, and in the case of the epoxy resins, environmental prohibitions as well.
Anybody that knows English cars/motorbikes well can tell you about Lucas electrical components, the problems that bedeviled them, and their reputation for failure. Made right there in the UK, so it's got to been good, right?!?
Lucas manufactured to the specs demanded by their clients, and when those clients cut corners, cost wise, in order to bring their products in a a lower price, EVERYBODY'S reputation suffered.
Their slogan was "Lucas: Prince of Darkness," meant to imply that they brought illumination to the dark night just outside your vehicle, but after a while that same slogan came to bite them in the fanny when their lesser spec'd wiring looms, headlights, fuses, etc. failed at an alarming rate, leaving motorists stranded without lights or worse, an operating engine.
All that while, Lucas had been making components for higher end marques like Rolls & Bentley, who were willing to shell out for the good stuff, and those brands had considerably fewer electrical issues.
Took Lucas half a century to shake the stank on their name.
I don't ride Chinese wood, because I've got plenty of access to stuff produced around here, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Chinese deck, based solely on where it was made.
Perhaps if the OP wanted, they could develop a wood free method of producing decks that perform the same as maple bloards do?
Elsewise, maybe it's a good idea to frame your position as a question of what can be done, rather than "FUCK THEM DUDES!"
How often this topic gonna come up, anyway? Haven't we discussed the matter to death already?
fucking lobster backs with their positive grounds and whitworth tooling.....also resin 7s are the only chinese boards ill skate. everything else feels dead on arrival.
I'm actually rather fond of DOA bloards.
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to me dwindle is the best chinese made product hands down. and its as good as any u.s. woodshop. i think primewood has great decks so far as u.s. production. alot of woodshops are inconsistent (as stated earlier in the post) and during this pandemic that seems to have only gotten worse.
saw sean cliver just released a strangelove board that took nearly a full year for the woodshop to get to him. thats insane.
also op i don't think dwindle uses china wood. chinese maple is not highly prized for skate decks, i think if i recall dwindle gets hard-rock great lakes american maple shipped to china to create the veneers they use. so its american wood (not china wood as you state in the title) pressed by chinese labor in a factory designed by rodney mullen.
Nah if u compare any dwindle deck vs BBS - BBS is waaaaaay better. Better pop, lasts much longer and doesn't break as easy. Everyone I skate with and homies I know that work in skate shops all say the same.
Rather support Mexico or any other country before China too.
I'll happily (and do) skate chinese wood, I live in the UK so carbon footprint is about the same as buying a US presses deck...so makes no odds to me as long as it's built in a good quality factory to the specs that I like skating.
Would I skate UK pressed decks? Absolutely if there was a factory here turning out decent decks..
Would I skate a HLC deck? Maybe... but Jart isn't exactly a company that I feel any urge to support.
The UK does have a couple of good woodshops apparently and Jart (HLC) press decks for alot of good brands:
Drawing boards, 
Sk8Mafia(Europe), 
Clown, Jart, 
Cruzade, 
Sour, 
Habitat (Europe), 
Flip (Europe), 
The National Skateboard Co, SOVRN (Europe), 
Skateboard Cafe and several others.
It's sick that Flip & Sovrn have their European decks pressed by HLC. Thats what all brands should be doing - Sourcing locally for all territories. All brands from Europe shouldn't be getting their decks pressed outside of Europe. And all brands from the US shouldn't be getting their decks pressed anywhere but US or Mexico.
The only brands that should be getting their shit made in china are chinese brands or brands from Asia. Simple.
Also, if you properly test all the diff decks from all the top woodshops, its a fact that BBS decks (mostly) are the most durable and best quality and Dwindle are the worst durability & quality wise. When a brand gets their shit made in China its always to make more profit over trying to provide better quality.
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to me dwindle is the best chinese made product hands down. and its as good as any u.s. woodshop. i think primewood has great decks so far as u.s. production. alot of woodshops are inconsistent (as stated earlier in the post) and during this pandemic that seems to have only gotten worse.
saw sean cliver just released a strangelove board that took nearly a full year for the woodshop to get to him. thats insane.
also op i don't think dwindle uses china wood. chinese maple is not highly prized for skate decks, i think if i recall dwindle gets hard-rock great lakes american maple shipped to china to create the veneers they use. so its american wood (not china wood as you state in the title) pressed by chinese labor in a factory designed by rodney mullen.
Nah if u compare any dwindle deck vs BBS - BBS is waaaaaay better. Better pop, lasts much longer and doesn't break as easy. Everyone I skate with and homies I know that work in skate shops all say the same.
Rather support Mexico or any other country before China too.
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I'll happily (and do) skate chinese wood, I live in the UK so carbon footprint is about the same as buying a US presses deck...so makes no odds to me as long as it's built in a good quality factory to the specs that I like skating.
Would I skate UK pressed decks? Absolutely if there was a factory here turning out decent decks..
Would I skate a HLC deck? Maybe... but Jart isn't exactly a company that I feel any urge to support.
The UK does have a couple of good woodshops apparently and Jart (HLC) press decks for alot of good brands:
Drawing boards, 
Sk8Mafia(Europe), 
Clown, Jart, 
Cruzade, 
Sour, 
Habitat (Europe), 
Flip (Europe), 
The National Skateboard Co, SOVRN (Europe), 
Skateboard Cafe and several others.
It's sick that Flip & Sovrn have their European decks pressed by HLC. Thats what all brands should be doing - Sourcing locally for all territories. All brands from Europe shouldn't be getting their decks pressed outside of Europe. And all brands from the US shouldn't be getting their decks pressed anywhere but US or Mexico.
The only brands that should be getting their shit made in china are chinese brands or brands from Asia. Simple.
Also, if you properly test all the diff decks from all the top woodshops, its a fact that BBS decks (mostly) are the most durable and best quality and Dwindle are the worst durability & quality wise. When a brand gets their shit made in China its always to make more profit over trying to provide better quality.
What are your thoughts on China ?
Outside of woodshops and skateboarding.
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OP's stance is clearly a political one in the guise of caring about the environment. It's fine if you don't like China because of all the propaganda you've been fed, but just say so instead of bullshitting about emissions or whatever. Your disdain is obvious in the way you refer to everything from there as "shit" when discussing the products.
On a side note, anyone else get the sense the Western war machine is really ramping up for a new Cold War against China? I'm no fan of the CCP but the headlines lately reek of warmongering like what happened before the most recent Mideast conflicts.
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OP's stance is clearly a political hi one in the guise of caring about the environment. It's fine if you don't like China because of all the propaganda you've been fed, but just say so instead of bullshitting about emissions or whatever. Your disdain is obvious in the way you refer to everything from there as "shit" when discussing the products.
On a side note, anyone else get the sense the Western war machine is really ramping up for a new Cold War against China? I'm no fan of the CCP but the headlines lately reek of warmongering like what happened before the most recent Mideast conflicts.
Exactamundo
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OP's stance is clearly a political one in the guise of caring about the environment. It's fine if you don't like China because of all the propaganda you've been fed, but just say so instead of bullshitting about emissions or whatever. Your disdain is obvious in the way you refer to everything from there as "shit" when discussing the products.
On a side note, anyone else get the sense the Western war machine is really ramping up for a new Cold War against China? I'm no fan of the CCP but the headlines lately reek of warmongering like what happened before the most recent Mideast conflicts.
There has been an increase in popular interest in the treatment of Uighur people in recent years, but if you follow Chinese news it has been a very hot topic at least since the Kunming railway attack in 2014. It's discouraging seeing such a serious issue being used opportunistically by conservatives in the US, but it doesn't mean that what's going on there is made up propaganda. If you're skeptical about what's going on in Xinjiang I'd encourage you to look into what the CCP itself says is happening. Even their version of the story is extremely troubling.
Armed conflict between the US and China is extremely unlikely. There are benefits to the saber rattling (imagine all the defense contractors using a potential conflict with China in their sales pitches right now), but the US and China are deeply economically interdependent in a way that the US and Iraq were not.
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Also, if you properly test all the diff decks from all the top woodshops, its a fact that BBS decks (mostly) are the most durable and best quality and Dwindle are the worst durability & quality wise. When a brand gets their shit made in China its always to make more profit over trying to provide better quality.
Wouldn't be Slap without some random kid providing hot garbage takes with the utmost confidence. I prefer BBS but you clearly haven't ridden a DSM deck if you think they're the worst. The quality of DSM boards is top notch. Way better than the majority of decks pressed in China, and way better than a lot of American and other woodshops. The consistency alone is leagues above most woodshops. You're just brainwashed by anti-China rhetoric and it's painfully obvious.
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The board that I've enjoyed the most lately was a Zero made in China. Dwindle I pressume
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Dwindle is just fine, would skate one over HLC board any day of the week.
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What are your thoughts on China ?
Outside of woodshops and skateboarding.
[/quote]
In what way? Cuz we could be here all day talking about non relevant opinions.
Also has nothing to do with the point of this thread!
Isn't this site for skateboarding?
The whole point of this post is comparing quality and why brands aren't thinking more about carbon footprint...
U wanna make it about something else? Really?
Dwindle is just fine, would skate one over HLC board any day of the week.
Nah rubbish but each to their own ;)
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Also, if you properly test all the diff decks from all the top woodshops, its a fact that BBS decks (mostly) are the most durable and best quality and Dwindle are the worst durability & quality wise. When a brand gets their shit made in China its always to make more profit over trying to provide better quality.
Wouldn't be Slap without some random kid providing hot garbage takes with the utmost confidence. I prefer BBS but you clearly haven't ridden a DSM deck if you think they're the worst. The quality of DSM boards is top notch. Way better than the majority of decks pressed in China, and way better than a lot of American and other woodshops. The consistency alone is leagues above most woodshops. You're just brainwashed by anti-China rhetoric and it's painfully obvious.
LOL exactly because you know so much better don't you. The inability to have a proper discussion is hilarious.
Skated plenty of Dwindle decks actually and they're shit compared to BBS. Sorry you have such beef about that - boo hoo.
I'm brain washed cuz I have a diff opinion to you. Haha - Good one. Dickhead.
OP's stance is clearly a political one in the guise of caring about the environment. It's fine if you don't like China because of all the propaganda you've been fed, but just say so instead of bullshitting about emissions or whatever. Your disdain is obvious in the way you refer to everything from there as "shit" when discussing the products.
On a side note, anyone else get the sense the Western war machine is really ramping up for a new Cold War against China? I'm no fan of the CCP but the headlines lately reek of warmongering like what happened before the most recent Mideast conflicts.
Really? How is that detective Ramone? lol
Oh your clearly one of these experts at figuring people out hey. Wow what a fuckin guy! Your killin me with your political savvyness! STFU u nonsebag. Don't change the subject to some bs please ffs.
Who gives a F anyway?
Point is Mexico wins all day everyday over China - way less carbon footprint and proven to be better quality etc etc. Wake the fuck up...
Next!
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What are your thoughts on China ?
Outside of woodshops and skateboarding.
In what way? Cuz we could be here all day talking about non relevant opinions.
Also has nothing to do with the point of this thread!
Isn't this site for skateboarding?
The whole point of this post is comparing quality and why brands aren't thinking more about carbon footprint...
U wanna make it about something else? Really?
Dwindle is just fine, would skate one over HLC board any day of the week.
Nah rubbish but each to their own ;)
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Also, if you properly test all the diff decks from all the top woodshops, its a fact that BBS decks (mostly) are the most durable and best quality and Dwindle are the worst durability & quality wise. When a brand gets their shit made in China its always to make more profit over trying to provide better quality.
Wouldn't be Slap without some random kid providing hot garbage takes with the utmost confidence. I prefer BBS but you clearly haven't ridden a DSM deck if you think they're the worst. The quality of DSM boards is top notch. Way better than the majority of decks pressed in China, and way better than a lot of American and other woodshops. The consistency alone is leagues above most woodshops. You're just brainwashed by anti-China rhetoric and it's painfully obvious.
LOL exactly because you know so much better don't you. The inability to have a proper discussion is hilarious.
Skated plenty of Dwindle decks actually and they're shit compared to BBS. Sorry you have such beef about that - boo hoo.
I'm brain washed cuz I have a diff opinion to you. Haha - Good one. Dickhead.
OP's stance is clearly a political one in the guise of caring about the environment. It's fine if you don't like China because of all the propaganda you've been fed, but just say so instead of bullshitting about emissions or whatever. Your disdain is obvious in the way you refer to everything from there as "shit" when discussing the products.
On a side note, anyone else get the sense the Western war machine is really ramping up for a new Cold War against China? I'm no fan of the CCP but the headlines lately reek of warmongering like what happened before the most recent Mideast conflicts.
Really? How is that detective Ramone? lol
Oh your clearly one of these experts at figuring people out hey. Wow what a fuckin guy! Your killin me with your political savvyness! STFU u nonsebag. Don't change the subject to some bs please ffs.
Who gives a F anyway?
Point is Mexico wins all day everyday over China - way less carbon footprint and proven to be better quality etc etc. Wake the fuck up...
Next!
[/quote]
I only asked cos it seems like you have a problem with China as a whole.
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Obviously the OP is the only one able to properly test out decks and anyone who has had a positive experience with China made boards is just wrong. You guys just aren't able to have a proper discussion!
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Bigwheelbite is dumb as fuck, lol. I’m sure BBS is producing in Mexico because they... love Mexicans? Hahaha. Definitely not anything to do with cheap foreign labor and lax environmental laws.
People who have garbage opinions/ incorrect info always come with the “apparently it’s not cool to have a different opinion” bs like they’re being persecuted. Nah son, you’re just fuckin dumb. ;D
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Really? How is that detective Ramone? lol
Oh your clearly one of these experts at figuring people out hey. Wow what a fuckin guy! Your killin me with your political savvyness! STFU u nonsebag. Don't change the subject to some bs please ffs.
Who gives a F anyway?
Point is Mexico wins all day everyday over China - way less carbon footprint and proven to be better quality etc etc. Wake the fuck up...
Next!
No detective work needed. I just had to read your posts. Don't gaslight me bro.
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Yeah this sort of sounds to me like casually anti-asian rhetoric during an especially xenophobic time...
BUT I am curious- I've assumed that the carbon footprint of Canada->China->US is heavier than from Canada->Mexico->US. Do we know this is true? I believe freight shipping has the lowest carbon footprint compared with other shipping methods when you look at it per container. I could imagine it really being a wash if any of the legs from Mexico are done by truck (I imagine none of these boats are waiting on dwindle to set sail). Does anyone know what the logistics chains are actually like? Does anyone have numbers on the footprint thing?
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Bigwheelbite is dumb as fuck, lol. I’m sure BBS is producing in Mexico because they... love Mexicans? Hahaha. Definitely not anything to do with cheap foreign labor and lax environmental laws.
People who have garbage opinions/ incorrect info always come with the “apparently it’s not cool to have a different opinion” bs like they’re being persecuted. Nah son, you’re just fuckin dumb. ;D
lol ok son - or perhaps BBS are pressing in Mexico cuz its right next to the US so logistically it makes sense. Not rocket science dummy ;)
Your Mum doesn't think I'm dumb though...
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The US will lose its global hegemonic status to China.
Anyway, you guys like BBQ?
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Anyway, you guys like BBQ?
Love it. Korean, Mongolian and US styles. Grill flavor is where it's at.
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Really? How is that detective Ramone? lol
Oh your clearly one of these experts at figuring people out hey. Wow what a fuckin guy! Your killin me with your political savvyness! STFU u nonsebag. Don't change the subject to some bs please ffs.
Who gives a F anyway?
Point is Mexico wins all day everyday over China - way less carbon footprint and proven to be better quality etc etc. Wake the fuck up...
Next!
No detective work needed. I just had to read your posts. Don't gaslight me bro.
Ffs just be man enough to say you think I'm racist instead of beating round the bush like some pedo.
If I was anti asian I'd be out there fuckin up my own kind over the whole covid bs instead of wasting my time arguing with a handful of silverspoon mommy's boys lol
I'm half asian/half black so yeah I will fuckin gaslight you - bro... ;)
Jog on
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Anyway, you guys like BBQ?
Love it. Korean, Mongolian and US styles. Grill flavor is where it's at.
Korean all day ;)
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This guy is such a kook. Keeps messaging me. Ahhh well, young and dumb. It’s kinda cute he just realized people make products in other countries to save money. ;D
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Dwindle makes some of the best boards if not the best.
Left my palace in the trunk of my car for the whole summer. It was 110 average the whole summer.
It delamed a little but still had lots of pop and it did not feel weak. If they had flat molds its game over.
Other board that feels strong like that is the Popmaster decks. And its sustainable. Gangemi is god.....
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Dwindle makes some of the best boards if not the best.
Left my palace in the trunk of my car for the whole summer. It was 110 average the whole summer.
It delamed a little but still had lots of pop and it did not feel weak. If they had flat molds its game over.
Other board that feels strong like that is the Popmaster decks. And its sustainable. Gangemi is god....
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the only downside of the palace deck i skated was that it seemed to love smashing into walls and corners when it shot out. still kept it's pop u pretty well though.
also i respect the buy local argument but globalization is real. deal with it.
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Skated a few enjoi’s last year and actually really liked em. I got one of the new deal x enjoi boards they did and I think it was ps stix but I could be wrong. But then I skated a team board after that and felt just as good.
i've skated a couple of enjois over the past few years and they performed good to be honest (even though not being resin7) can't say they're on par with any of the DLX board i usually ride but quite good for the price
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Really? How is that detective Ramone? lol
Oh your clearly one of these experts at figuring people out hey. Wow what a fuckin guy! Your killin me with your political savvyness! STFU u nonsebag. Don't change the subject to some bs please ffs.
Who gives a F anyway?
Point is Mexico wins all day everyday over China - way less carbon footprint and proven to be better quality etc etc. Wake the fuck up...
Next!
No detective work needed. I just had to read your posts. Don't gaslight me bro.
Ffs just be man enough to say you think I'm racist instead of beating round the bush like some pedo.
If I was anti asian I'd be out there fuckin up my own kind over the whole covid bs instead of wasting my time arguing with a handful of silverspoon mommy's boys lol
I'm half asian/half black so yeah I will fuckin gaslight you - bro... ;)
Jog on
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Anyway, you guys like BBQ?
Love it. Korean, Mongolian and US styles. Grill flavor is where it's at.
Korean all day ;)
So you're a boba liberal.
Actually, you're probably just completely full of shit. You're one of those trolls who argues in bad faith and claims things like "I'm a gay black man." Go fuck yourself, racist. How's that?
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Really? How is that detective Ramone? lol
Oh your clearly one of these experts at figuring people out hey. Wow what a fuckin guy! Your killin me with your political savvyness! STFU u nonsebag. Don't change the subject to some bs please ffs.
Who gives a F anyway?
Point is Mexico wins all day everyday over China - way less carbon footprint and proven to be better quality etc etc. Wake the fuck up...
Next!
No detective work needed. I just had to read your posts. Don't gaslight me bro.
Ffs just be man enough to say you think I'm racist instead of beating round the bush like some pedo.
If I was anti asian I'd be out there fuckin up my own kind over the whole covid bs instead of wasting my time arguing with a handful of silverspoon mommy's boys lol
I'm half asian/half black so yeah I will fuckin gaslight you - bro... ;)
Jog on
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Anyway, you guys like BBQ?
Love it. Korean, Mongolian and US styles. Grill flavor is where it's at.
Korean all day ;)
So you're a boba liberal.
Actually, you're probably just completely full of shit. You're one of those trolls who argues in bad faith and claims things like "I'm a gay black man." Go fuck yourself, racist. How's that?
never thought id see milo yiannopoulos on slap. never say never, never say always?
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Really? How is that detective Ramone? lol
Oh your clearly one of these experts at figuring people out hey. Wow what a fuckin guy! Your killin me with your political savvyness! STFU u nonsebag. Don't change the subject to some bs please ffs.
Who gives a F anyway?
Point is Mexico wins all day everyday over China - way less carbon footprint and proven to be better quality etc etc. Wake the fuck up...
Next!
No detective work needed. I just had to read your posts. Don't gaslight me bro.
Ffs just be man enough to say you think I'm racist instead of beating round the bush like some pedo.
If I was anti asian I'd be out there fuckin up my own kind over the whole covid bs instead of wasting my time arguing with a handful of silverspoon mommy's boys lol
I'm half asian/half black so yeah I will fuckin gaslight you - bro... ;)
Jog on
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Anyway, you guys like BBQ?
Love it. Korean, Mongolian and US styles. Grill flavor is where it's at.
Korean all day ;)
So you're a boba liberal.
Actually, you're probably just completely full of shit. You're one of those trolls who argues in bad faith and claims things like "I'm a gay black man." Go fuck yourself, racist. How's that?
Boba liberals are self-hating Asians who worship white liberals. I consider myself left leaning but I don't pander to white people.
And the "I'm a gay black man" thing is a real phenomenon where white guys pretend to be minorities online and say things like "As a bisexual Pakistani woman, I support Trump. Send all the immigrants home." It happened with a politician and a professor. There's no way it's an isolated occurrence.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/11/10/dean-browning-white-politician-tweets-black-gay-guy/6243406002/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/10/07/unh-investigates-professor-accused-posing-woman-color/5909837002/
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damn dude where you finna get your electronics from?!
Plenty of electronics not made in China ;)
If it has any kind of processor in it (the phone or comp you typed this on) it’s made in China lmao
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dont want to comment on the general topic, but whenever the topic of skating and environment/sustainability comes up, there is always the argument skating is bad for the environment anyway so why should I care at all. And I just don't get it, if anything isn't that an argument for minimizing the impact on the environment as much as possible?
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it's an interesting topic
but who wants to debate with a blockhead ?
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I skated an Enzo Enjoi deck when they turned him pro. I loved that board a lot. Had the nicest nollie inward heels on it. I never broke it either.
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Anyway, you guys like BBQ?
Love it. Korean, Mongolian and US styles. Grill flavor is where it's at.
Oh guys, you need to try Argentinean one. Best bbq ever.
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Starting to understand why
Chinese people Asians hate westerners after reading this thread.
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Starting to understand why Chinese people Asians hate westerners after reading this thread.
It's just that one guy. Anyone with half a brain, or even a quarter brainer (like sneakysecrets) who can look at things objectively, knows that the days of decks from china being automatically inferior quality are long gone.
Unless you're referring to the way a discussion of skateboard manufacturers turned quasi-political in under 3 pages, in which case that's totally justified.
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Starting to understand why Chinese people Asians hate westerners after reading this thread.
bingo
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The boards are great. Been skating dwindle wood for ages and never had an issue. I also make wooden toys out of skateboards [\b] and dwindle wood is the best to work with as some companies use patchwork ply under the top layers. Also the single press helps with consistency.
Can you share your work?
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You know how when you need a usb charger for your car, or toner for your printer, you go on amazon and you scroll till you find the cheapest one and then you buy it,and then when it arrives it might be kind of wonky and the instructions don't make any sense? same thing here.
If a company's gear sucks, blame the owner who wanted to pay less for their product, not the people who filled the order. Chinese factories are capable of putting out any quality of board they are paid for, and if they send you crap you can bet it's to spec.
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this isn't even true anymore in terms of quality. and i was the biggest dwindle hater. they also been making boards in china for like two decades. same with ps stix, maybe not as long. the wood is fine. just face the facts that a chinese factory can pump out boards that are on par with american decks. making a skateboard deck isn't that hard after all. expect to see more local board presses that take shares from american ones because the word is spreading that there are more options out there than bbs or ps.
you would need to prove first how dwindle even puts margins over quality. maybe they are convinced they really have the best boards. they constantly say so. even if they had better margins than other manufacturers, that says nothing about the quality of the product. your whole logic about the correlation of quality and margins is flawed, because there are more factors at play.
dwindle is not a small garage operation, it's an extreme sport conglomerate at this point. holding a major corp like them to realness standards like this is kind of ridiculous and ineffective. just vote with your dollar and don't buy their boards, if you dislike them anyways you'll miss nothing, so no one loses.
your post reads more like you have something against other people than americans making skateboards under the assumption that they can't be good or that anything produced in china is trash, whereas most stuff that is nowadays produced in the usa in my experience is also trash, especially the food, unless it's something high priced. to me made in usa is not a seal of quality, not anymore than made in china.same with made in germany as it means nothing anymore more like the og meaning of "beware, german copy". we mostly export thousands of tons of cheap pork that's barely surviving of meds into asia and cars and luxury goods to the usa, asia and rich oil states. still it's all fucking crap nowadays. the bitter truth is that a collectivist society like china will inevitably outpace individualist societies like the whole west in a game of competitive and economic mass production. not only will do they do the work cheaper, they will also do it better after a while because they don't stop until they streamlined the shit out of it.
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The reason you will (more often than not) find a better board made in Mexico than China is because the people who run the factories in Mexico can travel there more frequently and maintain quality control.
The Palace decks I've skated seemed fine to me but the better boards are going to be made in smaller factories with tighter quality control. It doesn't matter where something is made. And China is the king of large manufacturing in order to keep costs lower, so quality control is going to be a lot looser. If a China factory is closely monitored and they aren't just mass producing for maximum profit, then they can make fine products, too. Same for USA. Same for Germany. Wherever.
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this isn't even true anymore in terms of quality. and i was the biggest dwindle hater. they also been making boards in china for like two decades. same with ps stix, maybe not as long. the wood is fine. just face the facts that a chinese factory can pump out boards that are on par with american decks. making a skateboard deck isn't that hard after all. expect to see more local board presses that take shares from american ones because the word is spreading that there are more options out there than bbs or ps.
you would need to prove first how dwindle even puts margins over quality. maybe they are convinced they really have the best boards. they constantly say so. even if they had better margins than other manufacturers, that says nothing about the quality of the product. your whole logic about the correlation of quality and margins is flawed, because there are more factors at play.
dwindle is not a small garage operation, it's an extreme sport conglomerate at this point. holding a major corp like them to realness standards like this is kind of ridiculous and ineffective. just vote with your dollar and don't buy their boards, if you dislike them anyways you'll miss nothing, so no one loses.
your post reads more like you have something against other people than americans making skateboards under the assumption that they can't be good or that anything produced in china is trash, whereas most stuff that is nowadays produced in the usa in my experience is also trash, especially the food, unless it's something high priced. to me made in usa is not a seal of quality, not anymore than made in china.same with made in germany as it means nothing anymore more like the og meaning of "beware, german copy". we mostly export thousands of tons of cheap pork that's barely surviving of meds into asia and cars and luxury goods to the usa, asia and rich oil states. still it's all fucking crap nowadays. the bitter truth is that a collectivist society like china will inevitably outpace individualist societies like the whole west in a game of competitive and economic mass production. not only will do they do the work cheaper, they will also do it better after a while because they don't stop until they streamlined the shit out of it.
Thank you frank. Of course some salty goblins kooked me because how dare I state the obvious fact a lot of Chinese nationals resent the west after getting constantly antagonized by the media circus. I didn’t really detail anything, my bad.
The fucking Australian MP literally said they would wage war against China, and like half of articles written on this try to justify him lol, shoutout to the OG in this thread busting out the underlying sinophobia of the “Everything made by China sucks” mentality
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Whatever. Just try them out yourself. They are great for two weeks. After that they fall apart quickly. Maybe they use great glue, but the wood isn‘t all that good?
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Current board got waterlogged on my rainy bike ride home today. Went into the stack of previously skated boards, mostly BBS with a couple PS and one Crail. Of all of them, the crail still feels the snappiest even after having sat in my basement since the early fall. Skated 3 or 4 in the past year and all of them perform on par with or better than the boards from North American woodshops that Ive skated.
OPs protectionist concern-trolling aside.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
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This might be a wood shop thread question? But it works here.
Seeing how euro boards are often different from those state side, is an R7 in London the same as an R7 in the US?
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
You've made me mostly obsolete but I still check in from time to time and helping/educating/busting skate marketing myths is something I think is important if we want to actually be informed consumers.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
You've made me mostly obsolete but I still check in from time to time and helping/educating/busting skate marketing myths is something I think is important if we want to actually be informed consumers.
Ha never!
Maybe I do post a bit too often though, or just too quick to jump on things, but I have definitely seen and heard some interesting things on here from you and many other people, which makes this place so good if you really want to go deep into skate product - at least Shoes & Gear anyway.
I would always rather have multiple perspectives on anything as well, not just the first guy to jump on the REPLY button.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.
It is all down to personal preference.
Once I would have been happy on PS Stix boards, but when the shapes changed and tails got smaller, I had to find something that worked better for me.
I still have a few PS Stix boards set up as normal riders and cruisers, but after finding the most comfortable concave and shapes and being able to get a whole lot of them from BBS, there is no going back.
Maybe more people I know ride BBS than any other single woodshop, but that is not to say that there are other boards out there that don't work better for some people and I would definitely recommend standing on a lot of different woodshop boards before making any decisions, for anyone buying a board.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.
PS wood is ideal old man wood as long as you didn't get too fat in your 30s. Snappy, light, and they tend to have much mellower tails than other woodshops. They don't last as long as some other mfg but I very rarely skate a board to death before getting bored of it.
I think most people try them and go "oh its different, that means it's bad" instead of taking time to adapt to the board. There's more flex so things are very slightly delayed, but when you adjust your timing that same flex adds the energy that let's you really snap off your tricks. I thought it sucked for the longest time too, but once I understood that it was just different and actually tried adjusting to it I really started to enjoy it. Plus they sometimes do crazy ass molds and dimensions that I've never seen before which is always fun.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.
I think most people try them and go "oh its different, that means it's bad" instead of taking time to adapt to the board. There's more flex so things are very slightly delayed, but when you adjust your timing that same flex adds the energy that let's you really snap off your tricks. I thought it sucked for the longest time too, but once I understood that it was just different and actually tried adjusting to it I really started to enjoy it. Plus they sometimes do crazy ass molds and dimensions that I've never seen before which is always fun.
Interesting take on deck flexibility and stiffness, makes sense why some decks that are extremely stiff (DSM Resin-7) can feel dead for much of their lifespan.
I don't like decks that are day 1- stiff, 3 sessions in is where I find it has broken in sufficiently and sessions 4-8 is where it has the right amount of shittiness.
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.
PS wood is ideal old man wood as long as you didn't get too fat in your 30s. Snappy, light, and they tend to have much mellower tails than other woodshops. They don't last as long as some other mfg but I very rarely skate a board to death before getting bored of it.
I think most people try them and go "oh its different, that means it's bad" instead of taking time to adapt to the board. There's more flex so things are very slightly delayed, but when you adjust your timing that same flex adds the energy that let's you really snap off your tricks. I thought it sucked for the longest time too, but once I understood that it was just different and actually tried adjusting to it I really started to enjoy it. Plus they sometimes do crazy ass molds and dimensions that I've never seen before which is always fun.
PS is my fave woodshop.
What bfrd said: the flex is actually really nice.
A good PS board is the best board.
I really don’t care for bbs these days, which is kinda wild to me, in that I remember the early days of kayo and thinking that those boards were noticeably nicer than most of what I had ridden.
On topic, I ride crail boards, because of shape/dimensions, and like the wood. It’s not as ‘exciting’ as a great PS board, or as long lasting as some others, but the shape and size is what I want and it lasts more than long enough.
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omg i hate ps stix.
legit never had one i liked.
feel soggy after three seshs, weird shapes, don't like how they flex. they feel dead to me brand new. unless i broke the deck prematurely, which was very often the case with ps(usually i'd break them after 3 weeks and i never break boards, i wear them out) i would retire my ps stix decks after one or two weeks out of sheer frustration.
i haven't bought one in 3 or 4 years. i'd go with china dwindle over wherever ps any day. i was thinking i just kept getting bad ps boards like i was unlucky. but after so many misses i decided they don't work for me/are just straight up bad imo.
straigh up joyless wood.
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I have skated several creature decks recently and haven’t had any issues. They last way longer than the soggy ps stix decks I skated.
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Dwindle definitely seems the "stiffest" boards out there in the international market.
I say that because some smaller woodshops are said to be that or more, but if they don't do many boards, or most never get to other places, most people will never know what they are like.
The funny thing is some people want that super stiff feeling, but others do not, which is why there are a number of people with positive things to say and others with negative things, about Dwindle or any woodshops for that matter.
It is good to have options though.
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Overall though, the quality on most of the mid to high end stuff coming out of china: crail/dwindle is good. There’s just certain properties on the boards which some people like/dislike. The construction is consistent and can handle the numbers which the bigger brands demand which is prolly why they use them…..
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palace have been some of my favorite boards, let a friend have my old one after a month, he skated it for another 2 weeks no issues. ps stix fucking suck
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Is the wood still sugar maple though? That's the main question. And what boardshops still use it?
It never was on pro boards. They do use RHM in price points but it's marked on the board and significantly cheaper (like half price). For pro level stuff they've shipped over NA maple logs and sliced veneer themselves for decades at this point. It's the same wood everyone else uses.
The one difference and the thing that gives it a unique feel and sound is the glue - they're epoxy glue so they're stiffer and heavier.
As for companies that use them, go check out the woodshop thread but a good place to start would be dwindle distribution.
BFRD got the goods and info covered on that one!
I wasn't sure if it was another bot or "funny account" as there had been a lot lately.
BFRD is a real treasure and the original geek when it comes to gear madness. Also a man after my own heart who doesn't shy away from a PS Stix board like most old farts here seem to.
PS wood is ideal old man wood as long as you didn't get too fat in your 30s. Snappy, light, and they tend to have much mellower tails than other woodshops. They don't last as long as some other mfg but I very rarely skate a board to death before getting bored of it.
I think most people try them and go "oh its different, that means it's bad" instead of taking time to adapt to the board. There's more flex so things are very slightly delayed, but when you adjust your timing that same flex adds the energy that let's you really snap off your tricks. I thought it sucked for the longest time too, but once I understood that it was just different and actually tried adjusting to it I really started to enjoy it. Plus they sometimes do crazy ass molds and dimensions that I've never seen before which is always fun.
PS is my fave woodshop.
What bfrd said: the flex is actually really nice.
A good PS board is the best board.
I really don’t care for bbs these days, which is kinda wild to me, in that I remember the early days of kayo and thinking that those boards were noticeably nicer than most of what I had ridden.
On topic, I ride crail boards, because of shape/dimensions, and like the wood. It’s not as ‘exciting’ as a great PS board, or as long lasting as some others, but the shape and size is what I want and it lasts more than long enough.
I completely agree with both. I'm well into my 30s and a fresh PS board is my safe place. This might have to do with riding about a dozen Flip boards in a row 15 years ago when they were the only 8.25" that was readily available locally. I believe some of them were from their stint in China, but I don't remember completely hating them either.
As mentioned before, they just have a light feel to them, even though the scale didn't always agree with the few that I measured against BBS boards of a similar size. Part of this might have to do with how PS rounds the edges more, leaving them feeling thinner.
But what I like about them the most is the slightly flexy snap, that the others just don't have. With a fresh PS board it can sound like a crack of a whip, whereas for BBS it's a thick clunk. Even the way the boards give in and twist a little when setting up for a 360 flip just feels perfect.
I've been riding BBS boards for the past year as I wasn't able to find any PS pressed to my liking. I just don't get along with the steep nose on the mold that Quasi, WKND, GX1000 and most use these days. Anything from 8.25" to 8.375" on a mellow mold, long enough nose and tail and wheelbase over 14.25" just hasn't hit my radar. The BBS boards have felt alright for the most part except for one that was the soggiest I can remember ever having. After three sessions it was just gone and like a wet noodle. I set up another one just like it and the difference was night and day.
I did try a Crail board and while the wood felt decent, I ended up giving it away because the short tail and steeper kicks just felt off. Having been plagued with injuries the last several years I just don't have time for anything that doesn't feel right. I wouldn't mind trying Dwindle, but as they don't really offer anything with mellow kicks or wheelbases over 14.25", I don't even have to look.
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Another fan of PS decks and others with some flex to them.
R7s are well made but they haven't got the feel of a more flexible press; I'm not as connected to the board when they're too stiff.
Once you get used to a bit of flex and work out the timing its helps suck tricks up to your feet, and with less effort.
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I've been riding BBS boards for the past year as I wasn't able to find any PS pressed to my liking. I just don't get along with the steep nose on the mold that Quasi, WKND, GX1000 and most use these days. Anything from 8.25" to 8.375" on a mellow mold, long enough nose and tail and wheelbase over 14.25" just hasn't hit my radar. The BBS boards have felt alright for the most part except for one that was the soggiest I can remember ever having. After three sessions it was just gone and like a wet noodle. I set up another one just like it and the difference was night and day.
I did try a Crail board and while the wood felt decent, I ended up giving it away because the short tail and steeper kicks just felt off. Having been plagued with injuries the last several years I just don't have time for anything that doesn't feel right. I wouldn't mind trying Dwindle, but as they don't really offer anything with mellow kicks or wheelbases over 14.25", I don't even have to look.
Well, depending on how willing you are to size up and ride a directional board, Madness has got you covered: https://www.basementskate.com.au/madness-skateboard-deck-oil-slick-8.5/#tab_description (https://www.basementskate.com.au/madness-skateboard-deck-oil-slick-8.5/#tab_description)
Only 8.5 at it's widest but it tapers a bit. tail 6.56" and nose 6.69" with 14.5 wb.
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Another fan of PS decks and others with some flex to them.
R7s are well made but they haven't got the feel of a more flexible press; I'm not as connected to the board when they're too stiff.
Once you get used to a bit of flex and work out the timing its helps suck tricks up to your feet, and with less effort.
Yep. That's basically my experience. I HATED ps when I started skating again and wouldn't buy anything except Pennswood and bbs, but I got a WKND deck with a huge nose super cheap on Zumiez closeout and it totally changed my mind. At first I was just skating (and not particularly enjoying) it because the nose helped me get some snap on my toe flick but as the session went on I think I slowed down enough to match the timing and it was like the board suddenly had a spring in the tail. It also helps that the general mold design philosophy is closer to what I like - short, mellow tail/big steep nose/flatter shape with less spoon. It's not necessarily more functional or anything though, just a preference thing.
I actually set my foot up slightly different on PS boards, I move down the tail a little bit so I'm pressing more towards the bottom of the curve and thus hitting the ground a little faster. That seems to help me work out the timing. I still have to adjust when I switch but it's more of a twenty minute thing now and by the time my old legs warm up I'm usually pretty acclimated.
I guess my take is that PS wood is more misunderstood than anything. It's not for everyone, but don't be afraid to try something different. You might like it.