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Skateboarding => Shoes & Gear => Topic started by: Musicaldeath107 on April 04, 2022, 10:53:01 AM
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Does wheelbase on a board actually matter all that much?
Now before you tell me to focus my account for asking this question... Up until literal 20 minutes ago I would have said unequivocally yes. Now I'm not so sure.
I have for the last 2 years, for all intents and purposes, ridden 14 inch WB decks and Ventures. Some truck madness here and there, but 14 inch WB. I have had 1 deck in that time frame with that was 14.25WB and I never could get used to it. Everything always felt off, tried 3 different sets of trucks everything felt terrible. (In hindsight I think something was actually wrong with that deck)
On skateshop day my local was one of the shops that got their own custom Deluxe boards so I grabbed one. I wanted to support so I didn't care that the wheelbase was 14.375, figured if I hated it give it to a kid at the park. I tried it with the set of new Royals, and lo and behold it felt pretty damn good.
This afternoon I got a case of gear madness and was switching up wheels and trucks on everything. I laid that deck on top of my usual 14wb board and noticed that when the back truck holes lined up with one another, that both tails were almost exactly the same.
So I decided to throw a set of Venture Lo on that Deluxe board.
When I lined everything up, very scientifically clearly, 2 sets of ventures they are basically bang on the same to the tail.
(https://i.ibb.co/8XHHhTQ/PXL-20220404-171952043.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8XHHhTQ)
Now obviously wheel size and truck height will come into how this will feel. However the board those lows came off of is identical in shape, drilling etc to the one board in the right. So my money is on that for almost all of my tricks off the tail this will feel identical to the previous board that had the lows on.
The difference in wheelbase is very different at the nose. So nollie and fakie stuff will feel different but I'm not too concerned about messing with that timing.
(https://i.ibb.co/YR85gym/PXL-20220404-172011938.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YR85gym)
I'm going to have a long session later today to test the theory but I'm thinking that it's not wheelbase that is actually the most important measurement for what trucks go with what board. It's where in relation to the nose/tail the truck holes are drilled... plus you know all the other gear madness inducing measurements.
What do you all think?
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Wheelbase affects how long the board itself feels as well in terms of stability. Pop feel will also be different because the farther the front wheels are away from the back, it should theoretically contribute to a “heavier” feeling nose - so all things equal, it would take more effort to pop.
I recently switched to a 14WB + venture, and I strategically moved to this combination after really enjoying a 14.25WB + indys. While there is a lot of variables, I feel like the similar distance between the wheels has made a big difference in how comfortable my tricks feel.
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I think royals feel perfect on 14.3x wb ;)
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Everything matters....... A bit.
If you want to get into all the details that's fine but once you get bogged down in the measurement/gear madness it's almost impossible to get back out. Plenty of amazing skaters probably don't even know what sizes they ride. Most of the skateboarding world went from the 90s until very recently without even considering wheelbase when picking a deck
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A shorter wheelbase can help some people pop better, some people will skater better on a longer wheelbase depending on their height and build.
Does Bouillabaisse matter?
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Not 100% sure about it, just my experiences.
A longer wb = easier/faster shuvs (varial heel, tre flip, etc)
A shorter wb = easier/faster flips (kickflip, nollie heel, etc)
The overall length of the deck matters, depending on your height and shoulder width (also leg length probably). And what feels comfortable for you.
Most important for me, is the tail length and the angle of the kicks.
Longer, more mellow tail (6.7+) seems to cause a easier pop, but maybe not the highest ollie.
Shorter, steeper tail (6.5-) seems to need a bit more effort to pop but can get your ollies a bit higher.
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I think royals feel perfect on 14.3x wb ;)
Seconded.
It matters as much as you want it to matter, more art than science. Some swear by 14 WB + Ventures, some do 14.5 WB + Ventures and do just fine. Not the answer you're looking for and Shoes & Gear is a deep rabbit hole if you want to get analysis paralysis. I try and lock it down to 1 variable (WB / truck) and play around with the other. The more time I spend fiddling with my gear the less time I get to skate and acclimate to my setup. But if the setup feels way off from the first push, I'll give it 10 minutes before I swap out to a spare pair of trucks.
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some info about wheelbase
https://youtu.be/Lebp62IYZNo (https://youtu.be/Lebp62IYZNo)
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Short answer: yes
Long answer: no
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Not 100% sure about it, just my experiences.
A longer wb = easier/faster shuvs (varial heel, tre flip, etc)
A shorter wb = easier/faster flips (kickflip, nollie heel, etc)
you got it backwards, technical flip tricks (shuvit + flip) are definitely easier with a shorter wheelbase. longer wheelbase might be better for straight flips and ollies but i'm not so sure about that because i haven't felt that much of a difference there on boards with longer wheelbases, i just know that my 360 flips sucked on those
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In my session last night I'll be honest, I didn't notice any difference in the pop weight/feel on the tail at all.
It may have felt marginally more stable on transition and flowing around. Noticed my nollie and fakie pop was delayed but didn't throw me off.
I will definitely be looking more at overall deck construction vs strictly wheelbase moving forward.
Also to everyone saying the new Royals are perfect on 14.38 wheelbases... they've felt amazing on everything I've had em on so far, never thought I'd say that.
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No it doesn't. Caring about wheelbase is a recent phenomenon. The changes to your pop and turning are imperceptible. I think the most important dimensions are length and width. Longer boards tend to have longer WB. I like 31.5"-31.75" length and 8.0"-8.125" width so the boards I buy tend to be 14" WB or sometimes 14.125". An extra 1/8" WB is unnoticeable so both dimensions work for me. If I were to skate something with a 14.5" WB then I'm skating an inherently longer/wider board which I don't like.
You don't need to overthink your setup. Five years ago, the thought of WB never once crossed my mind. Ride what feels good and you'll get used to it
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No it doesn't. Caring about wheelbase is a recent phenomenon.
Wheelbase was a pretty big deal in the 80s (and earlier I'm sure) with doubled-drilled noses. As kids, we always went straight for the long nose/ short wheelbase option as we knew it made more sense for what we were trying to do. We didn't fixate on numbers but understood how WB impacts response/ stability.
For me, these days it only really impacts what I can do when it is a big difference, say 14" to 15". I am unable to get 360 flips on a 15" WB and 14" WB is terrifying on big transition. So I float between 14.25" and 14.75". Ultimately, at 6' and 200lbs, I could make 14.75" suit me for everything I am trying to do.
I don't nerd out too much on how my trucks impact WB but I do like Thunders on 14.25" and smaller and Ace on 14.25" and longer. But again I could easily commit to one truck brand and make it work.
As much as we all might benefit from sticking to consistent equipment, experimentation is fun and sometimes unlocks some progression.
In short it probably doesn't matter as much as we say here in the S+G forum but there are limits to functional length WB.
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I can’t read this whole thread at the moment, and I’m also eternally grateful that I do not suffer from any type of gear madness, but I know from my personal experience that I cannot do certain tricks the same, most noticeably 360 flip, a trick I’ve been doing for over 2 decades, on a board with a longer (14.25+) wheelbase; I constantly land on the nose unless I lean uncomfortably and comically far back. On a sub 14.25 WB I am flipping that bitch all day tho.
I would also like to take this time to sing the praises of the Girl - Loveseat shape as it is the perfect skatebloard that ever existed: 9”x32” 13.8” WB.
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cya
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Only if it’s way too far off or way different. 14.25 to 14.38 with everything else the same is 1/16” at each truck. The generic BBS 8.25 and 8.38 many brands use is the same at the kicks minus this one dimension. The wear on your tail, wheels, etc will likely influence the pop angle way more than this one measurement.
With that said I’ve suffered some serious madness and my most recent way of assessing a deck is to set it on the ground and without looking setup my feet in a few basic kickflip and ollie positions and see how cramped I feel because I am tall. Honestly that has worked way better than focusing on numbers.
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Wheelbase, to me, seems most effected by overall board length, specifically the tail length.
E.g., I can ride a 14" WB board, if it's closer to 32" with a long tail whereas a short board and short WB feel too cramped.
A short WB board and a longer tail, say 6.7+ feels fine (Primitive boards are like this @31.9"). Same size board with a longer WB and shorter tail feel fine (PS boards like some PlanB or Quasi).
The only thing I can't do is short boards (31.5-31.75) as the distance between by feet due to a wide stance has me pushing my front foot up onto the front-most bolts near the nose and I feel off balance when trying to scoot back to pop something as my feet are now too close together.
I recently setup a 32.25" with super long kicks and a 14.375 WB it was too long in every aspect (if it was shorter and had a short WB those long kicks would have compensated).
With my trailing foot in ollie position, if my front foot is on or near the first front bolts and if feels good, that's all that matters.
Atleast, that's how I'm feeling lately after trying a bunch of combinations; finding the board that fits your natural shoulder-width/natural stance.
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Not 100% sure about it, just my experiences.
A longer wb = easier/faster shuvs (varial heel, tre flip, etc)
A shorter wb = easier/faster flips (kickflip, nollie heel, etc)
you got it backwards, technical flip tricks (shuvit + flip) are definitely easier with a shorter wheelbase. longer wheelbase might be better for straight flips and ollies but i'm not so sure about that because i haven't felt that much of a difference there on boards with longer wheelbases, i just know that my 360 flips sucked on those
The general consensus is that a shorter wheelbase spins and scoops much easier.
Though I also agree with fs1/2 cab that in my experience, most tricks involving a scoop is much much easier on a longer wheelbase. I can tre on any setup, but they feel so much loftier and more satisfying on a bigger longer board. Same with fakie tres, and nollie/sw when I do them on occasion. Pop shuvs and bigspins dont overspin and feel a lot more stable and lofty too.
Shorter wheelbases are better for most straight flip tricks imo (except sw/nollie heels for some reason), and almost every 180 flip is easier on a short wb too, and easier to fold tricks like half cab flips, bs flips, nollie fs flips.
Then again, I'm 6ft5 and usually skate like a 14.2ish wheelbase so its definitely too short for me on paper which is probably why most scoopy tricks overspin if I don't try to control it.
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No.
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(https://i.ibb.co/8XHHhTQ/PXL-20220404-171952043.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8XHHhTQ)
The left looks like it has a steeper/less fingers of flat tail, I predict it will feel hard to hit your tail. Not my cup of tea. I have a 8.62/14.75 wb krooked with a long steep tail that is awful, hard to pop and clunky, and a 9.0/15wb bbs shop deck with nice mellow kicks that is very fun and manageable, so I try to pay attention to kicks. What is the board on the right?
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(https://i.ibb.co/8XHHhTQ/PXL-20220404-171952043.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8XHHhTQ)
Board on the right ends up with an ever so slightly steeper tail but more fingers of flat. But it's very close, neither board gives me an ghost pop issues.
That board on the right is a ScumCo deck, no idea the series but it's a Pennswood pressed board.
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i care about wb. makes my preferred board sizes managable
9.0/15wb turns my legs to mush after an hour skating street
8.75/14wb combo has me outside feeling good for 4-6 hours
mind you setup #2 has bigger wheels and heavier trucks
i kinda agree with @Xen on the length thing
an 8.8/31.4/14wb setup felt ridiculously cramped
but a 10.0/31.5/14.5wb also felt ridiculously cramped
if a board is too short, its just too short. wb wont help imo
we all agree length and width matter
why wouldnt the third major measurement?
every setup ever has had at least two wheelbases
definitely overlooked in the past by skaters
but its simply impossible for woodshops/truck devs to ignore
they dont just drill mounting holes without any thought
or slap axles on a baseplate any which way
wheelbase matters. whether or not you care is the difference
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My madness started when I couldn’t hardflip. It is my go to trick and I landed one out of maybe twenty I tried. I was riding a 14.5 WB deck on some thunders I believe. I set up a board with a 14.25 WB and landed maybe 10 in a row. It could’ve been just my mind the whole time but I haven’t touched a 14.5 since. Both decks were Clutch samples I was sent when I was toying around with having some decks made.
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I tre better on a longer wheelbase. I am sure there is math involved, but that's the fact I know. Shorter wheelbase feels cramped and the board flips weird.
I'm also 6'1" and have a size 11.5 foot, so again...math and whatnot.
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Yes but actually no. Just get boards similar to alien shapes and you're good.
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I tre better on a longer wheelbase. I am sure there is math involved, but that's the fact I know. Shorter wheelbase feels cramped and the board flips weird.
I'm also 6'1" and have a size 11.5 foot, so again...math and whatnot.
i'm 6'2" and i wear size 9 shoes, 14.25 with ventures and 14.375 on aces is the longest wheelbase i can tre flip fairly easily.
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It does once you get above 14.5, I had a 14.75 once and it felt like a boat…
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I tre better on a longer wheelbase. I am sure there is math involved, but that's the fact I know. Shorter wheelbase feels cramped and the board flips weird.
I'm also 6'1" and have a size 11.5 foot, so again...math and whatnot.
i'm 6'2" and i wear size 9 shoes, 14.25 with ventures and 14.375 on aces is the longest wheelbase i can tre flip fairly easily.
I'm on dlx 8.38 dreamer shape (14.5 wheelbase) with Ventures and it works.
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Wb is more about 360 board rotation for me.
I wanna get it around as fast as possible because I’m so close to the ground these days.
So yeah I can skate a 15” wb no problem but my impossible will come around hot and heavy. I prefer quick and light
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I won't speak for all short folk, but I need a short wheelbase. If I step on a 14.5 it feels like a longboard. It probably matters less for tall people with long legs.
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Wb is more about 360 board rotation for me.
I wanna get it around as fast as possible because I’m so close to the ground these days.
So yeah I can skate a 15” wb no problem but my impossible will come around hot and heavy. I prefer quick and light
It's funny, I use impossibles to gauge; long deck and WB and that wrap (if it doesn't clip the fucking round) feels like slomotion. I like them right in the middle, not to slow and not to fast for the wrap.
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I feel like height doesn't really matter that much. Skaters range from what 5'4 to 6'6 but then an 8th of an inch of wheelbase is somehow making a difference?
Altho I'm probably not that right person to judge as I'm at the tall end of my skaters height range. I also don't think a board width matters much compared to my size 13s
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Wb is more about 360 board rotation for me.
I wanna get it around as fast as possible because I’m so close to the ground these days.
So yeah I can skate a 15” wb no problem but my impossible will come around hot and heavy. I prefer quick and light
What flea and front foot said.
Although, I recently started skating a board with 14.45 wb, after being 14” gang, and…it works really well. Overall board length fucks with me quite a bit.
Being influenced, I saw that dope Cory flip from the other day and looked up his shape: 14.75 wb. And he was whipping those nollie tres. Not me tho.
I think one can adjust to whatever. I might lose tre flips on a longer board, but I’ll be able to bomb hills better and might have a better ollie. It all comes and goes, win some lose type of thing.
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As a tall person (6' 4") I can assure you that WB matters, at least to me any way. 14.4.-14.5 on indys. and I've been considering ventures again to extend my wb.
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It’s a measurement……trust me if concaves were quantified…..we’d care more.
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It’s a measurement……trust me if concaves were quantified…..we’d care more.
You can measure concave depth using two rulers. Tactics lists it on some boards.
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I don't know what matters anymore. I used to think it was WB. I am 6 foot 3 and lately have been on 14.38. I've skated a 14" Crail and also the Hockey 8.44x14.2 recently and one would assume the Hockey might be more stable and closer to my norm, but (and only after one session) it really doesn't feel that way right now. It's actually a hair shorter than the Crail and both are shorter than the 32.125 I have been on recently. Some things are slower, but it's learnable compared to the overall increases in pop, stability, and even flip tricks are more solid.
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[quote author=LebowskisRug link=topic=121572.msg3772111#msg3772111 date=1649289097]
I don't know what matters anymore. I used to think it was WB. I am 6 foot 3 and lately have been on 14.38. I've skated a 14" Crail and also the Hockey 8.44x14.2 recently and one would assume the Hockey might be more stable and closer to my norm, but (and only after one session) it really doesn't feel that way right now. It's actually a hair shorter than the Crail and both are shorter than the 32.125 I have been on recently. Some things are slower, but it's learnable compared to the overall increases in pop, stability, and even flip tricks are more solid.
[/quote]
I’m 5’7”, short legged, 10 shoe. Skate about the same size stuff. Also don’t know what matters. I don’t think wb plus trucks = jack shit tho. Or, possibly more accurately, it’s just some tiny pieces to a greater whole. All I know is I do not know. As an example, I went from an 8.125x14.125x31.25 to an 8.125x14x31.75, same trucks and wheels. None of this is interesting to anyone, but me. But, the newer setup feels super foreign. Like an ollie feels nuts. My timing on everything feels bizarre.
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Christopher Hiett is a great example of skill > wheel base haha
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPCG33QJbJI/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CYaLPUmD6oV/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CbyC80xDvZq/?utm_medium=copy_link
If it matters, he's about 5'5"-5'6" in reality (if I got that wrong, sorry Chris!)
But the way I see it: if measurements matter to you, then it matters. If it doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't.
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Everything matters to an extent, like many have said. And there are those outside the bell curve of statistical science that defy common notions. Dudes rocking size 13s on a 7.5" is a fucking mystery or lil 5' 2" dudes w/ 8s skating 8.6". Both skating their setups well even though the math may argue that those two examples shouldn't work well in theory. (Welsh or Ronson Lambert & Kader)
Back to my point... if WB matters on cars for turning radius, responsiveness, center of gravity, etc. then it also does for skating.
I'm about 5' 11" with a size 11-11.5 shoe. I'm also 60% legs and 40% torso. I found I work best with 8.5" or 8.4" x 14.5" WB x 32.25"-ish" deck on Indys. I can't do smaller than 14.25" WB or larger than 14.6". Board length can't be shorter than 32.125 or longer than 32.5.
I've been on Indys for 12 years straight so I tailored my deck choices around what worked with my Indys, whether I knew or didn't that Indys don't push WB out as much as Thunder or Venture.
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Everything matters to an extent, like many have said. And there are those outside the bell curve of statistical science that defy common notions. Dudes rocking size 13s on a 7.5" is a fucking mystery or lil 5' 2" dudes w/ 8s skating 8.6". Both skating their setups well even though the math may argue that those two examples shouldn't work well in theory. (Welsh or Ronson Lambert & Kader)
Back to my point... if WB matters on cars for turning radius, responsiveness, center of gravity, etc. then it also does for skating.
I'm about 5' 11" with a size 11-11.5 shoe. I'm also 60% legs and 40% torso. I found I work best with 8.5" or 8.4" x 14.5" WB x 32.25"-ish" deck on Indys. I can't do smaller than 14.25" WB or larger than 14.6". Board length can't be shorter than 32.125 or longer than 32.5.
I've been on Indys for 12 years straight so I tailored my deck choices around what worked with my Indys, whether I knew or didn't that Indys don't push WB out as much as Thunder or Venture.
Just to add on. I think the problem with comparing to cars is cars don't have a giant standing on-top of them. If you were comparing board setups vs board setups in a vacuum sure but two people could still be the same height, weight, shoe size, everything and their body's could still function differently or their technique could be completely different. Also so much is mental. If you like the look of something you will skate better on it than something that may technically be right but youre just not into it
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I can ride 14"wb deck just as well as 14.5"wb. But in order to do this, I need to drastically change the setup. I need heavy trucks on a short wb and light ones on long wb. Also a longer tail helps on longer wb. I'm only 5'7" btw.
Since I'm used to thunder titaniums on 14.4"wb, in order to skate a 14"wb I use heavy as fuck(and taller) aces. Truck wheelbase doesn't seem to matter to me at all in this case, the huge weight difference compensates everything, giving the setups a similar pop feel.
I'd like to try out decks with the exact same specs except wheelbase to truly find out what it actually does.
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Christopher Hiett is a great example of skill > wheel base haha
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPCG33QJbJI/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CYaLPUmD6oV/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CbyC80xDvZq/?utm_medium=copy_link
If it matters, he's about 5'5"-5'6" in reality (if I got that wrong, sorry Chris!)
But the way I see it: if measurements matter to you, then it matters. If it doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't.
Fun skater to watch (up there with winkowski for rad shaped board skaters).
Hell it's 7.25 x 27" just weak in the kicks so it excels at flip tricks since that is where it all started.
Also, still the sickest powell graphic.
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Christopher Hiett is a great example of skill > wheel base haha
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPCG33QJbJI/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CYaLPUmD6oV/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CbyC80xDvZq/?utm_medium=copy_link
If it matters, he's about 5'5"-5'6" in reality (if I got that wrong, sorry Chris!)
But the way I see it: if measurements matter to you, then it matters. If it doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't.
Fun skater to watch (up there with winkowski for rad shaped board skaters).
Hell it's 7.25 x 27" just weak in the kicks so it excels at flip tricks since that is where it all started.
Also, still the sickest powell graphic.
Fuck I've wanted a freestyle board since forever but whenever I see them in person they're like a rollerskate. Pretty sure the wb on that ones like 12 inches. Always think about getting a big 80s board and cutting it down but it no doubt wouldnt work properly. In an alternate reality skaters rode bigger freestyle boards instead of egg boards in the early 90s.
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Christopher Hiett is a great example of skill > wheel base haha
https://www.instagram.com/p/CPCG33QJbJI/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CYaLPUmD6oV/?utm_medium=copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CbyC80xDvZq/?utm_medium=copy_link
If it matters, he's about 5'5"-5'6" in reality (if I got that wrong, sorry Chris!)
But the way I see it: if measurements matter to you, then it matters. If it doesn't matter to you, then it doesn't.
Fun skater to watch (up there with winkowski for rad shaped board skaters).
Hell it's 7.25 x 27" just weak in the kicks so it excels at flip tricks since that is where it all started.
Also, still the sickest powell graphic.
When I worked in a shop as a kid, we had an old Vision Don Brown model, since it was a freestyle board, it never sold and was buried in a stack of old shit. I just took it and set it up, since I sucked at freestyle, I just tried to skate it normally (that was my first time ditching risers). As a 90s skater, I hate(d) 90s shapes, especially the long, tapered noses, I despise looking down on them to this day.
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As a tall person (6' 4") I can assure you that WB matters, at least to me any way. 14.4.-14.5 on indys. and I've been considering ventures again to extend my wb.
any other tall bros agree with this, or disagree and feel totally different?
i'm 6'4 and size 13, i skate 5.8 cast ventures and trying to pick my next deck. ive been on 14.25wb for my last couple, tried out a 14 and hated it. i have an 8.5 real se that i believe is 14.38 and i think thats going to be the move
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For me it matters, but just a little. Of course the best thing for your skating would be to ride the same exact setup all the time, but if you're on SLAP you probably enjoy messing around (obsessing over madness) with different things. I've tried a lot of different boards in between 8.25 and 8.5, usually around 14.125 to 14.5 WB, and I'd say you can feel a difference, but pretty marginal and it's pretty easy to get used to a new board when hopping from say 14.25 to 14.5 WB. 1/4 inch is really not that much.
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Short answer: yes
Long answer: no
I completely disagree
Short answer: No
Long answer: Yes
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I think this question is a forest for the trees situation. One measurement in isolation matters if all other parameters are equal or close to equal. At a certain point things are too long or short and it can make a difference if things are close.
For me I think it depends on the deck length, kick length, and kick steepness more.
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I think this question is a forest for the trees situation. One measurement in isolation matters if all other parameters are equal or close to equal. At a certain point things are too long or short and it can make a difference if things are close.
For me I think it depends on the deck length, kick length, and kick steepness more.
This is the answer.
I would humbly add: truck height, axle placement, wheel size, and then there is probably some significant relationship to shoulder width, various leg measurements, foot size, certain flexibility abilities.
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As a tall person (6' 4") I can assure you that WB matters, at least to me any way. 14.4.-14.5 on indys. and I've been considering ventures again to extend my wb.
any other tall bros agree with this, or disagree and feel totally different?
i'm 6'4 and size 13, i skate 5.8 cast ventures and trying to pick my next deck. ive been on 14.25wb for my last couple, tried out a 14 and hated it. i have an 8.5 real se that i believe is 14.38 and i think thats going to be the move
Another tall guy here. Long time back I used to try get as much as possible would ride 15+ with thunders but now think it mostly doesn't matter. People care way too much about the exact numbers now those same setups were 9+ wide boards on thunder 149s which at the time was the widest truck so it was fine but now people would be like wtf those trucks are way too small. The differences are so small i feel like it only ever matters in very specific situations. Only time I really felt wheelbase was too long was sometimes the deck would scrape on roll in ramps (easy fix Manny for a second as you roll in) and every now and then you'd go to do a nosegrind or nosemanmy but your foots not far up enough on the nose so you just drop to 5050. Rare tho maybe the same amount that would happen on any board.
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I can ride 14"wb deck just as well as 14.5"wb. But in order to do this, I need to drastically change the setup. I need heavy trucks on a short wb and light ones on long wb. Also a longer tail helps on longer wb. I'm only 5'7" btw.
Since I'm used to thunder titaniums on 14.4"wb, in order to skate a 14"wb I use heavy as fuck(and taller) aces. Truck wheelbase doesn't seem to matter to me at all in this case, the huge weight difference compensates everything, giving the setups a similar pop feel.
I'd like to try out decks with the exact same specs except wheelbase to truly find out what it actually does.
I find this to be true for myself as well.. I think WB itself is just one part of a whole like someone else said. Overall deck length, kick lengths, weights, etc all factor in. QQ, do you not have to drastically change your foot placement going from Thunders on a 14.4 WB to Ace on 14 WB?
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https://youtu.be/Nj_ZznMMRic
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This is also why you should pick a truck and wheels and stick with them. The micromanaging and mixing and matching of various shit compounds the potential combinations by an order of magnitude. If only one thing changes and your old deck is whole you can’t just lay it on top and identify what might be good or bad.
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This is also why you should pick a truck and wheels and stick with them. The micromanaging and mixing and matching of various shit compounds the potential combinations by an order of magnitude. If only one thing changes and your old deck is whole you can’t just lay it on top and identify what might be good or bad.
Goddamn quit roasting me directly.
@manysnakes that is a banger. I kinda wanted meatloaf to show up.
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Short answer: yes
Long answer: no
I completely disagree
Short answer: No
Long answer: Yes
Touché
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As a tall person (6' 4") I can assure you that WB matters, at least to me any way. 14.4.-14.5 on indys. and I've been considering ventures again to extend my wb.
any other tall bros agree with this, or disagree and feel totally different?
i'm 6'4 and size 13, i skate 5.8 cast ventures and trying to pick my next deck. ive been on 14.25wb for my last couple, tried out a 14 and hated it. i have an 8.5 real se that i believe is 14.38 and i think thats going to be the move
Give it a shot. Find a 14.5 if you're really feeling bold. 14.5 on ventures will deff feel hefty though. Bobby skates them on a 14.4 though so who knows
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I’ve been quite vocal about wheelbase mattering for years. Then I skated a Polar with a mislabeled wb and it felt pretty good albeit a bit short. Then I skated a shaped deck with a shorter wb than “what I like” and loved everything about it. Then I tested various boards the latest being a Toy Machine 8.5” with a 14.2” wb. Usually I ride 8.38” and above with wheelbases 14.5” and above. The Toy Machine overall length was actually longer than my previous deck with 14.75” wb. First the Toy Machine felt refreshing and different. Bit more unstable on transition but I kinda like that. Easier to pop due to the short wb and mellow kicks. What made me come to the conclusion that I really need 14.5”+ was pushing between tricks with no time to think. The 14.2” was just too short compared to what I was used to. I fell over a few times having my front foot too far up. Could I get used to this? Maybe? Do I want to? No, not really. I don’t see the benefit. I’ve had several shorter (wb & overall) boards and generally I just care for them that much for what I like to skate. I like the longer wb for the stability and heftier pop it adds and I feel like it just is more proportionate for my body size.
So, yeah, kinda but depends on what you do with your board.
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I like my wheelbase to be the board width plus 6 inches, give or take 1/8th.
14" on an 8"
14.25" on 8.25"
14.5" on 8.5"
14.75" on 8.75"+. I don't want above 14.75
I'm not going to ride an 8" in the same terrain as an 8.75" and I want it to be different.
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I like my wheelbase to be the board width plus 6 inches, give or take 1/8th.
14" on an 8"
14.25" on 8.25"
14.5" on 8.5"
14.75" on 8.75"+. I don't want above 14.75
I'm not going to ride an 8" in the same terrain as an 8.75" and I want it to be different.
Interesting
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If you would’ve asked me a month ago I would’ve said “yes absolutely.” I was convinced I could not hardflip on a 14.5 wheelbase. I bought a There deck with 14.5 WB and set it up on some thunders. My hard flips have been the nicest and most consistent they have been in months.
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For me, it does a little. But I think it's mainly length and the pitch of the kicks too. Give me a 14" with a length of 31.9 - 32" and I'm good. Take that to 31.5" which a lot are I'm cramped af.
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I like my wheelbase to be the board width plus 6 inches, give or take 1/8th.
14" on an 8"
14.25" on 8.25"
14.5" on 8.5"
14.75" on 8.75"+. I don't want above 14.75
I'm not going to ride an 8" in the same terrain as an 8.75" and I want it to be different.
Interesting
The Backinaction formula: 8.X + 6 = WB
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I like my wheelbase to be the board width plus 6 inches, give or take 1/8th.
14" on an 8"
14.25" on 8.25"
14.5" on 8.5"
14.75" on 8.75"+. I don't want above 14.75
I'm not going to ride an 8" in the same terrain as an 8.75" and I want it to be different.
Interesting
The Backinaction formula: 8.X + 6 = WB
That formula is pretty industry standard for 8.25s for sure, and a lot of other sizes.
I prefer 8.375s with a 14.3x wb. Math checks out.
FWIW I'm 5'9.873784512741264" so 5'10", US10 shoe and a 14.3x" WB always feels the best for everything. I can get away with 14.5 on transition on street it's too long (noses), usually because the decks are also too long to accommodate it; be it 8.18/8.25/8.3/8.5; the trick is finding boards 8.3 under 32" that have one, they are out there but the selection is slim so I default to 8.25"
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I like my wheelbase to be the board width plus 6 inches, give or take 1/8th.
14" on an 8"
14.25" on 8.25"
14.5" on 8.5"
14.75" on 8.75"+. I don't want above 14.75
I'm not going to ride an 8" in the same terrain as an 8.75" and I want it to be different.
Interesting
The Backinaction formula: 8.X + 6 = WB
That formula is pretty industry standard for 8.25s for sure, and a lot of other sizes.
I prefer 8.375s with a 14.3x bw. Math checks out.
FWIW I'm 5'9.873784512741264" so 5'10", US10 shoe and a 14.3x" WB always feels the best for everything. I can get away with 14.5 on transition on street it's too long (noses), usually because the decks are also too long to accommodate it; be it 8.18/8.25/8.3/8.5; the trick is finding boards 8.3 under 32" that have one, they are out there but the selection is slim so I default to 8.25"
No no no you're messing it all up and making it uneven. If you're 5'10 and size 10 you should have an 8.1 with 14.1wb and 51mm wheels. (Everything a 1or 10th)
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No no no you're messing it all up and making it uneven. If you're 5'10 and size 10 you should have an 8.1 with 14.1wb and 51mm wheels. (Everything a 1or 10th)
lol finally someone speaking with reason around here.
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I like my wheelbase to be the board width plus 6 inches, give or take 1/8th.
14" on an 8"
14.25" on 8.25"
14.5" on 8.5"
14.75" on 8.75"+. I don't want above 14.75
I'm not going to ride an 8" in the same terrain as an 8.75" and I want it to be different.
Interesting
The Backinaction formula: 8.X + 6 = WB
That formula is pretty industry standard for 8.25s for sure, and a lot of other sizes.
I prefer 8.375s with a 14.3x bw. Math checks out.
FWIW I'm 5'9.873784512741264" so 5'10", US10 shoe and a 14.3x" WB always feels the best for everything. I can get away with 14.5 on transition on street it's too long (noses), usually because the decks are also too long to accommodate it; be it 8.18/8.25/8.3/8.5; the trick is finding boards 8.3 under 32" that have one, they are out there but the selection is slim so I default to 8.25"
5'9" with size 9, should I be skating a a 7.9", 13.9 WB and 49mm wheels then?
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6 foot 3 size 10 what’s my size
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I’d expect if I googled “does penis size matter” the search results could comfort me and my small dick but let’s be real we all know wheelbase matters.
14.5 feels best but I can get by 14.375 to 14.625 with little difference.
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6 foot 3 size 10 what’s my size
Between 14.5 and 14.75 depending on the trucks is my guess
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no fuck no it doesnt
if you need a board youll make it work
you think that kid at the park you give the board to is going to care about wb?
id care more about magic carpeting or hot rodding than anything
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Wheelbase definitely matters way more than hot rodding or magic carpeting, in my opinion. Your gait/stance to ollie/flick is directly correlated to WB.
Small kids at parks power through it because kids are far more stubborn than adolescents. They don't know it's not working for them but make it work (or try to) anyways. It's commendable, but still affects them negatively.
I started progressing faster once some older skaters gave me tips on basic board dimensions relative to my stats (height, shoe size, etc.) Wheelbase was one of them do I would still getting ghost pop and ghost flick.
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Yes
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no fuck no it doesnt
if you need a board youll make it work
you think that kid at the park you give the board to is going to care about wb?
id care more about magic carpeting or hot rodding than anything
And when I was a kid, I rode a hand-me-down bike that was several sizes too large. What's your point?
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My unnecessary $.02 is that, as a shorter rider (5'6"), a smaller wheelbase makes an observable difference in how I am able to skate. I'm just coming off this 8.38" DLX deck with a 14.5" wheelbase, and it was a great board, but the thing felt completely unwieldy to get off of the ground. Now I'm on a Loveseat shape (14" wb) with the same components, and I can suddenly I can kickflip again.
I was on the fence about the issue for a long time, and have been perfectly content with the 14.25" wheelbase that is standard. After skating something with a 14" and feeling how much improved it was, I don't think I'm straying too far from there ever again.
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I think inseam length might have something to do with WB preference too
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as a taller human at 6' 2", i got a board with a 'standard' wb of 14.25, felt good.
got another board and was told (for probably the first time in my life) 'Hey that board has a short wheelbase just so you know'
thinking 'whatever' i got it anyway and holy shit it felt like a propeller under me. it was 13.25" SUPER small.
now i can't pick up a board without confirming the wheelbase is 14.25 or (preferably) smaller.
heroin symmetrical egg with 13.25 wb was amazing, required insanely little effort to spin and flip, could do lipslides much quicker and 360s felt glued to my feet
i miss it :(
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Was getting speed wobbles on big transition on the DLX 8.5 w/ 14.25 wb. Switched to the 8.38 w/ 14.5 wb and no more speed wobble
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Was getting speed wobbles on big transition on the DLX 8.5 w/ 14.25 wb. Switched to the 8.38 w/ 14.5 wb and no more speed wobble
A lot of the vert / go fast in big bowl types love the DLX 8.5 longer version with the 14.75 wb, or more often the 8.6 that also has 14.75 wb as they find it way more stable.
I don't think I can justify that 14.75 wb length any more for a normal daily rider, but the 14.5 wb is my go to nowdays, either on the DLX 8.38 or other BBS 8.5 boards.
Getting back on shorter wb boards are often uncomfortable now, but that is what I used to skate for a long time, so it is funny how I have now adapted to the bigger boards.
Other bigger cruiser type boards I have with 15" wb are way more stable tearing around pump tracks or bombing hills too, so it definitely makes a difference.
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I like my wheelbase to be the board width plus 6 inches, give or take 1/8th.
14" on an 8"
14.25" on 8.25"
14.5" on 8.5"
14.75" on 8.75"+. I don't want above 14.75
I'm not going to ride an 8" in the same terrain as an 8.75" and I want it to be different.
Interesting
The Backinaction formula: 8.X + 6 = WB
That formula is pretty industry standard for 8.25s for sure, and a lot of other sizes.
I prefer 8.375s with a 14.3x bw. Math checks out.
FWIW I'm 5'9.873784512741264" so 5'10", US10 shoe and a 14.3x" WB always feels the best for everything. I can get away with 14.5 on transition on street it's too long (noses), usually because the decks are also too long to accommodate it; be it 8.18/8.25/8.3/8.5; the trick is finding boards 8.3 under 32" that have one, they are out there but the selection is slim so I default to 8.25"
5'9" with size 9, should I be skating a a 7.9", 13.9 WB and 49mm wheels then?
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3iV8minP15/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
FWIW
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I think wheelbase doesn't matter that much as long as it's in a reasonable range. As soon as you are used to your setup, your setup is most likely not hindering you from doing anything. It's about skill.
The main problem is gear madness and changing your setup too often. Having a little money to burn can be a curse...
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I like my wheelbase to be the board width plus 6 inches, give or take 1/8th.
14" on an 8"
14.25" on 8.25"
14.5" on 8.5"
14.75" on 8.75"+. I don't want above 14.75
I'm not going to ride an 8" in the same terrain as an 8.75" and I want it to be different.
Interesting
The Backinaction formula: 8.X + 6 = WB
That formula is pretty industry standard for 8.25s for sure, and a lot of other sizes.
I prefer 8.375s with a 14.3x bw. Math checks out.
FWIW I'm 5'9.873784512741264" so 5'10", US10 shoe and a 14.3x" WB always feels the best for everything. I can get away with 14.5 on transition on street it's too long (noses), usually because the decks are also too long to accommodate it; be it 8.18/8.25/8.3/8.5; the trick is finding boards 8.3 under 32" that have one, they are out there but the selection is slim so I default to 8.25"
5'9" with size 9, should I be skating a a 7.9", 13.9 WB and 49mm wheels then?
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3iV8minP15/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=
FWIW
A foot and a fist? Sometimes the Prof seems to just pulls things out of his arse.
But I had to see if this lined up on my favorite shape... (The Huffer) and guess what? it does... ::)
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Pretty easy to fudge depending on your shoe bulk and how you hold your hand so it definitely makes sense.
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Sorry to revive old thread...what's the consensus on ideal wheelbase ranges? Anybody got a wheelbase delta they like to stay within and have good results? Is a quarter-inch really noticeably different/worse if going longer?
I feel like it's harder to find 14" wheelbase decks than 14.25", regardless of width, when shopping in person. Being able to just pick any deck within a range of wheelbases confidently would open up the choices a bit more. This question is based on someone who isn't trying to change their trucks to account for wheelbase. Currently riding team thunder 149 on an 8.3" with 14" wb. Was riding it on ventures, felt kinda tall. Switched to venture forged plates, felt like manual point was off but liked the height. Switched back to venture regs, felt tall again. Trying to address the tall feeling and the manual point landed me on thunders.
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Sorry to revive old thread...what's the consensus on ideal wheelbase ranges? Anybody got a wheelbase delta they like to stay within and have good results? Is a quarter-inch really noticeably different/worse if going longer?
I feel like it's harder to find 14" wheelbase decks than 14.25", regardless of width, when shopping in person. Being able to just pick any deck within a range of wheelbases confidently would open up the choices a bit more. This question is based on someone who isn't trying to change their trucks to account for wheelbase. Currently riding team thunder 149 on an 8.3" with 14" wb. Was riding it on ventures, felt kinda tall. Switched to venture forged plates, felt like manual point was off but liked the height. Switched back to venture regs, felt tall again. Trying to address the tall feeling and the manual point landed me on thunders.
My formula atm is:
<14" wb: v- hollow 5.2 low/v- hollow 5.6/5.8 tites
Up to 14.25: 149 hollows/149 tites/AF1 33 hollow lows
And yes, cojones deep in gear madness.
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I think there’s been some really interesting research lately on the correlation between sensitivity to wheelbase and low levels of anxiety….
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I think wheelbase doesn't matter that much as long as it's in a reasonable range. As soon as you are used to your setup, your setup is most likely not hindering you from doing anything. It's about skill.
The main problem is gear madness and changing your setup too often. Having a little money to burn can be a curse...
My only gripe about your statement here about WB not mattering and it being skill if you're "used to it" is:
I can skate many boards within a range of sizes and dimensions. I can do most of my tricks just fine. However, doing tricks "fine" vs "excellently" like my skill & practice have enabled me to usually comes down to the gear being less compatible.
It doesn't matter if you're pro or not. Your body is used to certain dimensions with these movements and when you deviate from those specs, your body tries to replicate the same desired outcome and fails. The technique doesn't match the dimensions of the set up. I expect my board to behave a certain way and when it doesn't because WB is too short, nose too steep, etc. You change your technique to accommodate gear differences, but then your actual tricks change. They'll feel and look different. They could be "fine" visually but feel like shit to you.
Anyways, I'm rambling. Point is: you're right, but not entirely. I've adjusted to boards (thanks to my skill) but the board never behaved as expected. The gear (less compatible) was the culprit in that case.
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The real way to find your ideal wheelbase and also board width and length:
Basically someone should conduct a skater census with tons of stats. Then, data like height, inseam, shoe size, deck width length and wheelbase should all be averaged out.
You would then have the average skater with their average height and shoe size and the most common deck width length and wheelbase.
You could then use a simple mathematics ratio to see what width you should be riding based on your shoe size for example.
Like lets say the average skater has a size 10 shoe and rides an 8.25.
You could set up a ratio like
size 10 shoe in inches/8.25 = size 13 shoe in inches/x. Then solve for x and that would give you a deck with the same proportion width to your shoe size. You could do it for height instead of shoe size, or inseam etc.
It may even be possible to set up some formula to incorporate multiple variables like shoe size, inseam, height all together but that's beyond my barely passing college algebra abilities.
The results are of course subject to change based on personal preference or style, but the formula should give a good starting point. Of course outliers may exist too maybe there's some 6'4 250lb rider that loves riding a 7.75, you wouldn't get anywhere close to that using a formula like this. But that's an outlier.
If there was a census conducting and then a database with all this information you could also customize the formula for example by using only vert skaters if you want to find a good set up for vert, or only curb skaters if you want a curb set up, etc. You could choose to filter only pros, or even just select certain skaters.
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Sorry to revive old thread...what's the consensus on ideal wheelbase ranges?
The consensus on ideal wheelbase rage is exactly what you see mass produced across all deck brands, roughly 14" to 14.75", with 14.25" being the most common. However, this is all subjective, and relative to the dimensions/ratios of your own body, the type of skating you do, and how just you like things to feel. IMHO, that last one is the most important one.
I am 5'11" and have found that 14.38" and 14.5" work the best for me. With 14.25" and below, things start to feel really cramped, as if trying to walk/run with my feet shackled together, or like swinging a baseball bat/golf club while really choked-up on the handle [e.g. lose a lot of (ollie) power], and my front foot ends up too far out over nose (which can be especially deadly on transition). Over 14.5" and my stance starts to feel too wide to be stable on anything where I roughly need both feet over both kicks at the same time (e.g. nose stall reverts on transition, half-cab to crook/nose slide, etc.). If was shorter, or had shorter legs, I'd prolly like a smaller wheelbase. If I was taller, I'd prolly like a bigger one, but that just isn't my reality. Given that the average male in the U.S. is 5'9", and 14.25" is the most common WB size, ratio-wise I am prolly riding a "14.25" for my size.
Yes, one can do a kickflip on both a penny board, and a 48" longboard, but it's not ideal, and is going to feel pretty gross. The goal is just to find that magic zone that feels the most comfortable to you...it's all subjective.
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The real way to find your ideal wheelbase and also board width and length:
Basically someone should conduct a skater census with tons of stats. Then, data like height, inseam, shoe size, deck width length and wheelbase should all be averaged out.
U could do all of this, or just heuristically determine that the data would average out to taller = longer wheelbase in general, and that n00bs should start on the industry average then go up / down from there, no math needed, just like 3-4 boards of trial and error, which they would certainly be doin anyway.
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I think wheelbase doesn't matter that much as long as it's in a reasonable range. As soon as you are used to your setup, your setup is most likely not hindering you from doing anything. It's about skill.
The main problem is gear madness and changing your setup too often. Having a little money to burn can be a curse...
My only gripe about your statement here about WB not mattering and it being skill if you're "used to it" is:
I can skate many boards within a range of sizes and dimensions. I can do most of my tricks just fine. However, doing tricks "fine" vs "excellently" like my skill & practice have enabled me to usually comes down to the gear being less compatible.
It doesn't matter if you're pro or not. Your body is used to certain dimensions with these movements and when you deviate from those specs, your body tries to replicate the same desired outcome and fails. The technique doesn't match the dimensions of the set up. I expect my board to behave a certain way and when it doesn't because WB is too short, nose too steep, etc. You change your technique to accommodate gear differences, but then your actual tricks change. They'll feel and look different. They could be "fine" visually but feel like shit to you.
Anyways, I'm rambling. Point is: you're right, but not entirely. I've adjusted to boards (thanks to my skill) but the board never behaved as expected. The gear (less compatible) was the culprit in that case.
Oldheads at skateparks will talk at you like this for 15 mins then go practice fs 180's on flat.
Just joshin ya, I mostly agree, it's just about finding the preference then sticking to it. Can't stand when people obsess over minor details, but yea u wanna achieve THE setup.
Also interesting what u said about tricks looking and feeling different. Does make me wonder if that near-unattainable swag of late 80's -> early 90's street vids was at least partly a product of the boards of the time, the mobbed double flips and vertical tres etc.
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I think wheelbase doesn't matter that much as long as it's in a reasonable range. As soon as you are used to your setup, your setup is most likely not hindering you from doing anything. It's about skill.
The main problem is gear madness and changing your setup too often. Having a little money to burn can be a curse...
My only gripe about your statement here about WB not mattering and it being skill if you're "used to it" is:
I can skate many boards within a range of sizes and dimensions. I can do most of my tricks just fine. However, doing tricks "fine" vs "excellently" like my skill & practice have enabled me to usually comes down to the gear being less compatible.
It doesn't matter if you're pro or not. Your body is used to certain dimensions with these movements and when you deviate from those specs, your body tries to replicate the same desired outcome and fails. The technique doesn't match the dimensions of the set up. I expect my board to behave a certain way and when it doesn't because WB is too short, nose too steep, etc. You change your technique to accommodate gear differences, but then your actual tricks change. They'll feel and look different. They could be "fine" visually but feel like shit to you.
Anyways, I'm rambling. Point is: you're right, but not entirely. I've adjusted to boards (thanks to my skill) but the board never behaved as expected. The gear (less compatible) was the culprit in that case.
i actually think it's like 95%+ a skill issue
i say this as someone who likes to try a lot of different gear for fun, i know what setup i like and works best for me but sometime i just want to switch it up for a different feeling
it's been said before, but ben degros is a good example - certain tricks might be a bit harder or easier on certain setups, but he can do all his tricks on any set up
when you watch someone battling a trick and breaking multiple decks and just using whatever random deck or whole other setup is on the session and they can still do the trick, you see that setup doesn't really matter
recently i watched a friend battle a line that started with a switch fs bigspin down 5, he broke multiple decks, at one point switching from his 8.5 deck that he probably didn't know the wheelbase of, on indys, to my 8.125 14" wb on thunders, and was still able to do the switch fs bigspin
everyone would be better off if they reframed their gear madness from 'this will make me better at skating' to 'im just having fun with different equipment'
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I need a WB that will still let me do the occasional 360 flip on flat and feel reasonably comfortable in 10'+ bowl.
I'd say that is 14.25" to 14.75" but I'm usually at 14.75" due to my love of the AH Huffer deck and I have also managed some 360 flips on 15.5" WB decks...
...what I am saying is... I think I know but I really don't know....
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I think wheelbase doesn't matter that much as long as it's in a reasonable range. As soon as you are used to your setup, your setup is most likely not hindering you from doing anything. It's about skill.
The main problem is gear madness and changing your setup too often. Having a little money to burn can be a curse...
My only gripe about your statement here about WB not mattering and it being skill if you're "used to it" is:
I can skate many boards within a range of sizes and dimensions. I can do most of my tricks just fine. However, doing tricks "fine" vs "excellently" like my skill & practice have enabled me to usually comes down to the gear being less compatible.
It doesn't matter if you're pro or not. Your body is used to certain dimensions with these movements and when you deviate from those specs, your body tries to replicate the same desired outcome and fails. The technique doesn't match the dimensions of the set up. I expect my board to behave a certain way and when it doesn't because WB is too short, nose too steep, etc. You change your technique to accommodate gear differences, but then your actual tricks change. They'll feel and look different. They could be "fine" visually but feel like shit to you.
Anyways, I'm rambling. Point is: you're right, but not entirely. I've adjusted to boards (thanks to my skill) but the board never behaved as expected. The gear (less compatible) was the culprit in that case.
i actually think it's like 95%+ a skill issue
i say this as someone who likes to try a lot of different gear for fun, i know what setup i like and works best for me but sometime i just want to switch it up for a different feeling
it's been said before, but ben degros is a good example - certain tricks might be a bit harder or easier on certain setups, but he can do all his tricks on any set up
when you watch someone battling a trick and breaking multiple decks and just using whatever random deck or whole other setup is on the session and they can still do the trick, you see that setup doesn't really matter
recently i watched a friend battle a line that started with a switch fs bigspin down 5, he broke multiple decks, at one point switching from his 8.5 deck that he probably didn't know the wheelbase of, on indys, to my 8.125 14" wb on thunders, and was still able to do the switch fs bigspin
everyone would be better off if they reframed their gear madness from 'this will make me better at skating' to 'im just having fun with different equipment'
Everything matters if you notice enough.
You can do most tricks on any board but how do you want it to feel and look is where all the madness comes in imo. My switch fs flip is much easier for me to do them how I like on 14” WB but I can still do them on most boards they might just be more muska and not as consistent. I ride 14.25 mostly because as 14 can make some tricks better it’s not that good for others for me personally.
I guess you can call that “skill” but I see it more as adaptability. So maybe more like experience but I wouldn’t necessarily say skilled at skating in particular because they are A LOT of tricks I can’t do.
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Not with v8s
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My main point was was gear with certain specs are designed to behave a certain way, regardless of your skill level. Whether you have the "skill" or "adaptability" (as the other Slapper put it!) or not determines how comfortable tricks feel.
Why I disagreed on the "it's 95% skill" reasoning is because if you hold your skill level as a controlled constant for your stature/shoe size/general strength, the testing of an 8.5 & a 7.6 will flick, pop, and rotate differently.
You cannot in good conscience expect an 8.5 to pop, flip and catch the exact same way as a 7.6 would and blame that on "skill." It's fundamental physics at play. If a board is too small for someone, there's no amount of skill they could exercise to make it skate like whatever their goldilocks gear specs are.
It's not even about madness. It's about gear specs & proportions to the skater.
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I can’t remember where I heard it maybe when Schmitt was on the nine club but was your inner leg length relative to wheelbase?
And does anyone know what was the wheelbase on those old DSM enjoi, almost, blind, darkstar, etc. 7.8 decks with the full concave?
Those new Santa Cruz feel base decks are really catching my interests
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I can’t remember where I heard it maybe when Schmitt was on the nine club but was your inner leg length relative to wheelbase?
This makes sense to me. I’m 5’10” but have a very short inseam/long torso and once my wheelbase goes above 14.25 I cannot 360 flip consistently, a trick I’ve had on lock for two and a half decades, it just begins to spin so clunky and falls behind me.
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Switching from 14.25 to 14 soon
Just been dealing with it for years until I figured out about it
I bet nollie inward heels will be less scary on a Real red oval vs. the blue ovals I usually skate. I also switched from 149s to 144s, smallest I'll go. Currently skating the new 144s on a blue eagle until I switch the board out for the 8.25 x 14 I got
I'm like 5'8" or 5'9" I haven't measured in a very long time and don't remember
Cycling inseam 32", pants outseam 38", pants inseams usually ~27", it varies based on the rise. I think some of my pants are like 33 or 34 x 26(my actual waist measures 30"-31" or so)
Pants are always worn at the same place on my waist, and if I'm standing, barefoot, they're *just* where they start to touch the floor. I don't need a longer inseam than that, it'll drag on the floor. I don't sag or nothin either.
But I'm pretty sure that would qualify me as a short-leg-havin-ass-dude
I skate Indy standards, so that's a high truck but it's what I'm used to
Chad Tim Tim skates 14" wb on aces
Idk if I could do that
I tried the foot and fist thing and that puts me at like 13.75 to 14
According to Schmitt's chart I should be on 14 to 14.5
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There’s a chart??
Yeah I’m 5’9” with shortish legs every time I get anything 14.25+ I just can’t get with the board feel no matter how good the concave and shape I gotta really tune in to make it work and that extra effort kinda kills it
I’m definitely trying a high 13 wheelbase next
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i mean you definitely feel it but its never been the reason i felt like i couldnt make something. unless we're talking like longboards its definitely a fringe refinement imo, at least when you're picking wheelbases within 1" of each other the way most people are. shorter makes the board feel a little lighter on the launch but more fickle on heavy landings.
imo the order of setup importance is truck tightness/bushings -> wheel hardness and diam -> general concave -> board/truck width (again assuming we're not including out-there shapes like longboards or cruisers) -> wheel width -> specific concave stuff like wheelbase and cut for tail/nose.
but this is mostly from the lens of pretty mild street spots like ditches, easy downrails, and <=6 stairs, + bigger transition features at skateparks. i do run a separate board for hills where the trucks are basically welded straight and my vert board looks like something from the simpsons but i don't think theres any tricks i couldnt do on all 3 boards, albeit with different amounts of resistance
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For sure I can still do everything on a longer one but I just feel like everything is a lot easier for me on shorter ones
I don't nerd out out all really on fingers of flat, kick angles, kick length, concave, truck wheelbase, etc
I just want a shorter overall board with 14" wheelbase
I'm gonna try one of those red ovals this year for sure, they're like 31.3 long! 8.12 x 14 wb
I think trucks are the soul of the board, and wheelbase is my most important dimension
I can get used to any shape or width as long as my trucks are the same brand and the same distance from eachother
Already got the hardbody BBS 8.25 x 14 on ice
I got indys with the blue conical bushings, no threads sticking out but the top of the bolt comes out about 1/16" or so, I just like having all the nylon engage the threads, and nothing more. So I guess a hair past nut flush
Idk, I think everything is just preference
Short people always get the shaft tho
Pants are always too long
Boards are too long
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Short people always get the shaft tho
Pants are always too long
Boards are too long
real lol. im a 5'7 scrawny ass dude. upside: at 30 years old bailing still feels like it did when i was 12. downside: how the fuck does a world predominantly filled with short scrawny people not make clothes for short scrawny people??? every once in a while i think 'ill try kids clothes im not proud' but i guess the kids these days are baby elephants like wtf is with that rotund nonsense
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how can pants be too long?
go to a tailor
you cant add length to pants
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how can pants be too long?
go to a tailor
you cant add length to pants
They mean in standard releasss WITHOUT needing tailoring. If you're super short, it's hard to find men's inseam shorter than 29" without the waist also being super small.
If you're quite rotund in the waist/belly and short, it's hard to find pants without custom tailoring. Same thing for shorter people who are just too large for children's sizes
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how can pants be too long?
go to a tailor
you cant add length to pants
I have a sewing machine and know how to hem pants
It would be nice to not have to
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fair play
im an anomaly on the other end of the spectrum
wish pants came in too long for me
would happily pay to tailor them to fit
instead of having a handful of options
who make pants with enough fabric at all
small market i suppose
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fair play
im an anomaly on the other end of the spectrum
wish pants came in too long for me
would happily pay to tailor them to fit
instead of having a handful of options
who make pants with enough fabric at all
small market i suppose
I think back in the day a lot of them especially work pants just came unhemmed
So they'd be like, sz 34UU
And be like super long
Lately though I've been getting 34 inseam pants and just cutting them, after a couple bad fit experiences with thrifted 28 inseam dickies
The top block was shorter too! No room for nads
I know them wrangler 13mwz cowboy cuts are probably available in super long inseams cause the cowboys wear them completely up their ass and want their boots completely covered at all times
But anyways
Here's some BBS boards available in 14" wb
•Real red oval 8.125
•Real easy rider oval 8.25(this one has long-ass kicks tho)
•Antihero basalt eagle 8.5" shorter
•Hardbody basalt 8.25" short
•Hardbody basalt 8.125"
•Hardbody basalt 8"
•Hardbody 8.25" short
•Dlx true fit 8.38"
•Limo 8.18"
•Gx1000 8"
•Sci-Fi 8.25" short
•BBS blank 8.25" short
There's some baker 8.25s listed as 14" wb and 31.6" length, and I know the OG 8.25 is 31.8 long so that's legit. Haven't seen one in person yet.
There's also some baker 8.475s I saw listed as 14" wb, but still with the same length as the OG, so, not sure if that's just a mistake/typo
If I had a board company I'd prolly just have these
8 x 14
8.25 x 14
8.25 x 14.25
8.5 x 14.25
8.5 x 14.5
8.75 x 14.5
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fair play
im an anomaly on the other end of the spectrum
wish pants came in too long for me
would happily pay to tailor them to fit
instead of having a handful of options
who make pants with enough fabric at all
small market i suppose
I think back in the day a lot of them especially work pants just came unhemmed
So they'd be like, sz 34UU
And be like super long
Lately though I've been getting 34 inseam pants and just cutting them, after a couple bad fit experiences with thrifted 28 inseam dickies
The top block was shorter too! No room for nads
I know them wrangler 13mwz cowboy cuts are probably available in super long inseams cause the cowboys wear them completely up their ass and want their boots completely covered at all times
But anyways
Here's some BBS short wb boards
•Real red oval 8.125 x 14
•Real easy rider oval 8.25 x 14
•Antihero basalt eagle 8.5 x 14
•Hardbody basalt 8.25 x 14
•Hardbody 8.25 x 14
•Dlx true fit 8.06 x 13.88
•Dlx true fit 8.25 x 13.88
•Dlx true fit 8.38 x 14
•Dlx true fit 8.5 x 13.75
•Gx1000 8 x 14
•Occasionally sci fi has 8.25 x 14
•You can get BBS blanks in 8.25 x 14
•There's some baker 8.25s listed as 14" wb and 31.6" length, and I know the OG 8.25 is 31.8 long so that's legit. Haven't seen one in person yet.
•There's some baker 8.475s I saw also listed as 14" wb, but still with the same length as the OG, so, not sure if that's just a mistake/typo
If I had a board company I'd prolly just have these
8 x 14
8.25 x 14
8.25 x 14.25
8.5 x 14.25
8.5 x 14.5
8.75 x 14.5
EDIT: oh wait my bad, Palace is not BBS but DSM I think? Either way it's my go-to in an 8.25.
Palace has an 8.25 x 14 shape that has been Lucien's board since forever, and has also come out occasionally as Jamal's and Jahmir's shape as well.
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Those palace ones are sick
I don't think I've had anything outside of real, antihero, or baker in a hot minute(~15 years) aside from trying flight and vx for rain boards/cruisers.
•Limo has an 8.18" x 14"
•So does Frog
•Habitat 8.125" x 14" Janoski
•Polar Boserio 'surprise' 8.25" x 14"
•Quasi has some 8.25" x 14"
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I won't speak for all short folk, but I need a short wheelbase. If I step on a 14.5 it feels like a longboard. It probably matters less for tall people with long legs.
This is me
Nothing over 14.25 is in my comfort zone.
Short Kings Summer Yall!
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I remember in 1990 when street skaters pro boards were still 9.5-9.75 but had 14” wb, it was a strange transition but I had a h street Dave Donaldson that had a 15 wb and my next board was a life Sean sheffey that had a 14” wb and I learned Tre flips on it. Dating myself but that was the first time I realized wb mattered.
For me it’s a combination of overall length of the deck, mellow concave/kicks, length of tail and wb. Tough to get them all in a row but it’s possible today.i can skate a range but once it goes past 14.6 there are a bunch of tricks that become much tougher.
I’m 5 11” and have a 30” inseam so that 14.25 to 14.5 works best. Though I have skated sub 14(drehobl Krooked board was an early one 13.9 wb) and loved them.
And like some have said, skill definitely compensates for product variation. But for me it’s best to stay in a range, and suffering on a small weird board to land a couple tricks badly at this age is hardly worth sacrificing my session.
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99% 0f everyone who tweaks out on wheelbase is either, A) old guy who does slappys. Or B) A less than average skilled skater.
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99% 0f everyone who tweaks out on wheelbase is either, A) old guy who does slappys. Or B) A less than average skilled skater.
Reynolds rides a 14.25 and he's mad tall
Foy talks about his 14.25 wheelbase being important to him because he's 5'7" or whatever
Chad timtim will only use 14"
I feel like like most pros stick to the same shape for a reason
I definitely prefer a 14" but I can rock a 14.25" all day
Little kids, short people, people with dwarfism might not want like, a 14.6 wheelbase for example
Wheelbase doesn't really matter with slappies as far as I know, and people that aren't very good at skating usually don't even know what wheelbase is
I figured it just helps because people come in all different sizes and it's nice that boards do too.
I think anyone that's tweaking out about anything is well, tweaking
But I mean, preferring/seeking out shorter wheelbase boards doesn't seem like something that should get made fun of considering most pros have a favorite shape they always ride.
Lately it's been interesting because you don't have to ride a skinny board to get a shorter wheelbase, and I think that's cool.
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Set up and 14” wb 8.25 and my backside 360s are much more consistent then on longer wbs so gotta count for something I guess…
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99% 0f everyone who tweaks out on wheelbase is either, A) old guy who does slappys. Or B) A less than average skilled skater.
Yeah, I mean what is up with these 2 groups trying to figure out what feels best for them so they can enjoy and learn, sheesh....LOL
I am kidding of course, funny thing is I am in both those groups ;D ;D ;D
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So, I'm officially a WB truther now. This whole time I've treated it like "it won't hurt you if you don't think about it" thing
I put slappys on my board. Got annoyed with them and switched back to my old Thunder. In my mind, I felt like I did not have enough time to break in the new trucks. Around fall 2025, I felt it was time to put the slappys back on and give them a fair go.
from then until last month. My tre flips sucked. my pop was less. I couldn't 5-0 or nosegrind at all. Lipsides felt like a huge effort. My few Nollie tricks were just gone. Fakie pop grinds are all gone. I could barely disaster either. Now that I'm writing it down, any trick putting the back truck over something made my body feel heavy. I assumed it was just because I haven't been skating as much, being a new dad.
put my thunders back on last month, and it was like I hadn't actually skated in months. It felt nostalgic. I was like Holy shit. I'm sure wheelbase shift was the issue. I feel light and loose on my board again.
What's crazy is the main reason I put the thunders back on is that I thought the raw thunders complemented my graphic/wheels better than the gold baseplated slappys. The secondary reason was lingering WB concerns.
I guess where I am in my skating/age, adapting to a different setup just isn't as easy as it used to be. I think this experience has killed my motivation to try new trucks, maybe forever. Slappy isn't cool enough to make me buy longer decks.
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I feel that shit
My heart wants ventures but I'm just wayyy too used to indys at 37
I think deck wheelbase and overall length is a more important measurement than deck width by far, based on the length of your legs, but some have different preferences. The old blitz 8.19 shape herman skates has a wheelbase longer than 14.25, and he's not a tall dude if I remember correctly. I've seen Jerry skating 8.25 eagles which are 14.38 wb, right?
For me I probably just watched too much tom penny footage and how he's always riding in the pockets, but the big pants hide the cowboy Leo romero stance
I just want full control over my board and if it's too long it sucks for me. It feels like using a musket for self defense. I'm 5'8"-5'9" with a slightly shorter than average inseam and slightly less flexibility. For example I've never been able to cross my fingers. I can get by and get used to a 14.25, it's what I've always been on usually. But when I switched to 14" I started learning new tricks. Could be a mental thing, not thinking I'm going to credit card.
Some folks do their tricks different too, like foot all the way in the tail to kickflip, vs like some kickflips I've seen Hyun do where his foot is in the middle of the tip of the tail, hanging off a couple inches.
I think having the right wheelbase/overall length for your body type can be eye opening. Most people don't care but like, for a little kid, a board with a shorter wheelbase is a game changer
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99% 0f everyone who tweaks out on wheelbase is either, A) old guy who does slappys. Or B) A less than average skilled skater.
Not sure what tweaking out on wheelbase is but I do seek out something around 15" on any deck I buy. I can re-drill a deck if needed to 15" but generally I like the orange eagle or something similar. I've been skating for more than 30 years but I'm not anything more than average and I only skate ramps and transition parks so I like a bigger ride. I'm 5'11" so not short but not tall so, again, average. I'd love to be doing treflips at nearly 50 but I just don't have the time or inclination to devote myself to them and getting a smaller board.
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99% 0f everyone who tweaks out on wheelbase is either, A) old guy who does slappys. Or B) A less than average skilled skater.
Not sure what tweaking out on wheelbase is but I do seek out something around 15" on any deck I buy. I can re-drill a deck if needed to 15" but generally I like the orange eagle or something similar. I've been skating for more than 30 years but I'm not anything more than average and I only skate ramps and transition parks so I like a bigger ride. I'm 5'11" so not short but not tall so, again, average. I'd love to be doing treflips at nearly 50 but I just don't have the time or inclination to devote myself to them and getting a smaller board.
To me this makes sense, boards in the mid-late 80s often had 15+ wb
Makes me think about how a lot of the baker 3 crew ran magic carpet 8.5 over 139s with 14.25 wb since when they came up wheelbases were shorter and they had the football shape era and shit
If I were of average height, but I was just -used to- longer wb, yeah. I'd be bummed about the trends shifting towards shorter. Street has been king for a while, but even some street dudes, like BA for example, ain't tryna ride a 14" wheelbase. I love how small Reynolds boards look on him. Esp during the kr3w/altamont days when it made him look even taller like Jack skellington or some shit
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Hi all, I’ve given it a lot of thought. Its not the wheelbase alone. The wb indirectly influences the length and steepness of the kicks for a deck with the same length. Shorter wb can have longer kicks. To compensate for the longer kicks you would need to increase the kick angles if you want to have the same pop angle with a given setup. But even then they will not pop and feel the same. Thats probably one reason why people think wb makes a big difference. Its not just the wb, its the dependency of the wb to other properties as well.
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Hi all, I’ve given it a lot of thought. It’s not the wheelbase alone. The wb indirectly influences the length and steepness of the kicks for a deck with the same length. Shorter wb can have longer kicks. To compensate for the longer kicks you would need to increase the kick angles if you want to have the same pop angle with a given setup. But even then they will not pop and feel the same. Thats probably one reason why people think wb makes a big difference. It’s not just the wb, it’s the dependency of the wb to other properties as well.
I was gifted a stack of the 14.5 wb boards below while riding the 14.25 model and the difference is very noticeable. The kicks are nearly identical. The .25 extra length doesn’t even register when I’m standing on it. Luckily I got a buddy with one of those WB adjuster tools because I absolutely hate the 14.5
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJCB82xT/IMG-1319.jpg)
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Hi all, I’ve given it a lot of thought. It’s not the wheelbase alone. The wb indirectly influences the length and steepness of the kicks for a deck with the same length. Shorter wb can have longer kicks. To compensate for the longer kicks you would need to increase the kick angles if you want to have the same pop angle with a given setup. But even then they will not pop and feel the same. Thats probably one reason why people think wb makes a big difference. It’s not just the wb, it’s the dependency of the wb to other properties as well.
I was gifted a stack of the 14.5 wb boards below while riding the 14.25 model and the difference is very noticeable. The kicks are nearly identical. The .25 extra length doesn’t even register when I’m standing on it. Luckily I got a buddy with one of those WB adjuster tools because I absolutely hate the 14.5
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJCB82xT/IMG-1319.jpg)
i was a 14” wb poster.
than i became a ‘wb doesn’t matter’ truther.
i haven’t been skating much, im old fat and tired. always tired. and always more fat.
i went on a trip and bought a deck just to skate some flatground with a friend of a friend. i bought the board because i liked the brand and it is supposedly the one bobby dk rides.
it wasn’t like i was good, but i landed way more than i had any right to expect. 14” wb. well well well.
what i really wish is that there was a narrower version of the G053.
so im back to not knowing
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Hi all, I’ve given it a lot of thought. It’s not the wheelbase alone. The wb indirectly influences the length and steepness of the kicks for a deck with the same length. Shorter wb can have longer kicks. To compensate for the longer kicks you would need to increase the kick angles if you want to have the same pop angle with a given setup. But even then they will not pop and feel the same. Thats probably one reason why people think wb makes a big difference. It’s not just the wb, it’s the dependency of the wb to other properties as well.
I was gifted a stack of the 14.5 wb boards below while riding the 14.25 model and the difference is very noticeable. The kicks are nearly identical. The .25 extra length doesn’t even register when I’m standing on it. Luckily I got a buddy with one of those WB adjuster tools because I absolutely hate the 14.5
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJCB82xT/IMG-1319.jpg)
I am curious with those two boards - are the molds the same, or is the shorter one made on a shorter mold?
When I first saw they were doing shorter wb and board length, I kept wanting to ask someone about it, or better still get at least one of each, but I have no access to any stock here in AU, or at least not easy access.
There are a good number of brands that do have boards through BBS that I ride, most of which have very specific molds, smaller / shorter molds for shorter boards, longer molds for bigger or longer wb boards.
Even with all this, there are some boards that are made that I have skated - more specific shapes - that just don't work as well as some of the regular shapes, mainly because the wheelbase is either too long, or in some cases, actually a little too short.
To get around this, I have tried a good number of options with regard to changing the wheelbases of the various boards including wheelbase mod tools / drilling out the decks, but I think the most simple solution I have now is that I have double drilled or even changed the hole position slightly on the baseplates of some of my trucks to be able to move them in on the tail, or for some other boards, bringing in both ends just a bit, or enough that everything feels normal to me.
Anyway, back to those boards, how different are they, if at all, in the molds, or is it just where the boards are drilled?
* @ok Funny you should say the 14" wheelbase works, but I have been experimenting with shorter wheelbases and they definitely work way better than I had first thought for smaller stuff / street skating.
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Funny you should say the 14" wheelbase works, but I have been experimenting with shorter wheelbases and they definitely work way better than I had first thought for smaller stuff / street skating.
@Mbrimson88 say more...what you been riding? What were first thoughts, and now current ones? What worked better for you, etc.
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Funny you should say the 14" wheelbase works, but I have been experimenting with shorter wheelbases and they definitely work way better than I had first thought for smaller stuff / street skating.
@Mbrimson88 say more...what you been riding? What were first thoughts, and now current ones? What worked better for you, etc.
also interested in hearing brimmer’s take.
because my ‘skating’ now looks like: nollie flip, nollie heel, switch flip, kickflip, tre flip, attempts…an 8.25 14 wb, less than 32, with thunder 148s and 53 ish wheels, ‘works’.
i don’t skate transition. there is kinda only big big ones near me.
i always trip out thinking about how some of the really early 2000 burnside bros, and julian/cardiel, were skating sub 8, 14 wb, with indy’s, and then ace. definitely turn faster/tighter.
start going fast tho and it has to feel fucked. i skate slow as shit and going even slightly fast is scary.
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Funny you should say the 14" wheelbase works, but I have been experimenting with shorter wheelbases and they definitely work way better than I had first thought for smaller stuff / street skating.
@Mbrimson88 say more...what you been riding? What were first thoughts, and now current ones? What worked better for you, etc.
also interested in hearing brimmer’s take.
because my ‘skating’ now looks like: nollie flip, nollie heel, switch flip, kickflip, tre flip, attempts…an 8.25 14 wb, less than 32, with thunder 148s and 53 ish wheels, ‘works’.
i don’t skate transition. there is kinda only big big ones near me.
i always trip out thinking about how some of the really early 2000 burnside bros, and julian/cardiel, were skating sub 8, 14 wb, with indy’s, and then ace. definitely turn faster/tighter.
start going fast tho and it has to feel fucked. i skate slow as shit and going even slightly fast is scary.
Well, I don't think it is quite as groundbreaking or amazing as it might seem, but just going through the back catalog with sale boards from mostly (but not limited to) DLX brands, in particular the shorter and smaller boards, like the 8.25 with the 14 wb and the 8.28 shapes, usually set up on trade in Thunder and Venture 8.25 size trucks, as a couple of guys go through them quite quickly, also with smaller worn down wheels I have been rounding off to make them little fat Classic shapes.
Then I also have the 8.38 regular board I have drilled in both ends so the 14.5 wb is now about 14.1 or so, on a steeper version that just didn't skate so well for me when I had it set up before, this one on 149 Thunders so I get the easier feel with a better turn without having to drive over the deck - surprisingly, it works great, eg steeper kicks with shorter wheelbases are definitely something that I hadn't really thought would be a good thing for me, but I am not having issues with it.
I have also put DIY double drilled trucks - Indy and Venture - on a few boards that felt too long or too steep which has helped too, but I need to bring in both trucks about the same for them to work well, more so than just bringing in the tail. The ideal measurement is about 5 mm for Ventures, but only about 2 to 3 mm for Indy, which I have ways of doing, but the distances now mean I have a slightly longer tail, slightly shorter wheelbase, still pops nicely, tail not too long as per a full V8 distance in and works for small stuff pretty well.
Maybe this was all brought on by the two fold happenings of DLX China boards having a shorter mold so they really only work well on the smaller boards or with shorter wheelbases, but I have also been experimenting with various things due to having access to a lot of cheap decks or free used parts too, which I might not have been doing otherwise.
My usual boards are still very comfortable, but it is fun trying out all this other stuff, just to see what works and what doesn't work, as well as letting people try these boards and give their version of what is good or not so good too.
One of the main really interesting things is creating an oval or elongated set of holes in baseplates, then using grip tape under them, or a bike tube as a pad to stop them moving when tightened down, so I can adjust them anywhere from usual stock to 1, 2, 3 or 4 mm further in. At first I thought the trucks would definitely move, but so far they have stayed nicely stuck down with the ways I have done things, which means I can make a wheelbase come in to whatever I want from 14.5 through 14.25 to 14.0 if needed, without having to redrill the deck or change anything else on it.
People give me funny looks when I explain it to them, but I don't ever mean this to be a mainstream thing, just more my fun experiment and see what really makes things work the best for me on Indy, Thunder, or Venture trucks I have to play with.