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Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: 144p on July 15, 2024, 04:48:04 PM
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I found it interesting that Polar Skateboards, an elite skate brand released a full length vid on June 21st and has around 51k views while Powell and && vid is just over a week old with 312k views.
To me this shows the fundamental shift taking place in skate culture and that the majority of skaters is now made up of a different demographic than 10 years ago.
Maybe it’s as simple as the newest vid isn’t by Pontus and lacks the creative vision his last few releases did.
Or maybe && has bridged a gap between skate genres we’ve never seen before.
Either way it appears Powell has returned to the top of skate culture relevancy in whatever bizarre world we reside in now. Maybe not necessarily causing sales to sky rocket but in visibility and brand recognition.
Are the death of big boy’s to blame? Are flight decks soon to dominate every skate shops deck wall?
Is the expiration date of most skate brands Pontus spoke of in a past interview around the corner?
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I'm chalking these stats up to Powell likely having a huge non-skating, or "used to skate" following due to how long they've been around, Youtube algorithm manipulation, and family members seeing this and wanting to show the young skater in the family "how neat!"
Ritchie Jackson has the most viewed video Thrasher has ever posted, but that does not equate to Ritchie Jackson being the most liked skater Thrasher has ever posted.
&& is better than "Slap the Ritchie out yo Fuckin name", but they aren't that different in terms of appeal.
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&& is ubiquitous watching for pretty much everyone in skating. It was anticipated and controversial; from one of the most polarising skateboarders of all time... like him or not, we all watched it.
Do you really think a Polar vid would get more views?
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People more curious to see if Andy getting Randy with his handy
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Andy gets every skate adjacent dork frothing which is smart on Powells side if you want views. It’s all just sales right, and they’ve found a solid lane with 40 something Powell collectors and little kids, which was always Powells initial strength. It’s not for us and that’s fine.
I’m thinking either a new brand or existing will pivot into the YouTube brand space like Powells doing, but make it cool.
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Do you really think a Polar vid would get more views?
no but polar vids usually hit six digit views pretty quickly and their prior three full lengths aren't far from a million views, 51k isn't great
the new baker video is doing really well, view-wise, but that's hardly surprising. videos on their channel always do well
it's not a 1:1 comparison but i'm also pretty shocked that the latest Toy Machine video is already at 385k views after less than two months - not far behind vaccine, which has been up for three full years
i think polar peaked years ago and i'm not surprised it's lagging in views but i still wonder if there's more to it than "video boring"
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An interesting observation and a topic worth discussing. Although from what I understand from the thread about the Polar vid, the video somehow got marked as 18+ so in order for it to pop up in your suggested feed or to find it in general, you have to be logged into a YouTube account with your birthdate set into your profile showing you are at least 18 years of age. I feel like a lot of people watch YouTube but don’t have an account. This would definitely make any video miss out on all the random views you get from algorithms etc.
Videos having a million views in this day and age doesn’t mean what it did before an upload could hit some weird algorithm spike and suddenly be recommended to countless auto play feeds. That on top of the 18+ thing made a big difference I think.
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I was not aware of this, definitely changes my perspective a bit.
An interesting observation and a topic worth discussing. Although from what I understand from the thread about the Polar vid, the video somehow got marked as 18+ so in order for it to pop up in your suggested feed or to find it in general, you have to be logged into a YouTube account with your birthdate set into your profile showing you are at least 18 years of age. I feel like a lot of people watch YouTube but don’t have an account. This would definitely make any video miss out on all the random views you get from algorithms etc.
Videos having a million views in this day and age doesn’t mean what it did before an upload could hit some weird algorithm spike and suddenly be recommended to countless auto play feeds. That on top of the 18+ thing made a big difference I think.
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&& is appealing to tweens. Polar is appealing to 40 yr olds who dress like tweens.
winner!
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I found it interesting that Polar Skateboards, an elite skate brand released a full length vid on June 21st and has around 51k views while Powell and && vid is just over a week old with 312k views.
To me this shows the fundamental shift taking place in skate culture and that the majority of skaters is now made up of a different demographic than 10 years ago.
Maybe it’s as simple as the newest vid isn’t by Pontus and lacks the creative vision his last few releases did.
Or maybe && has bridged a gap between skate genres we’ve never seen before.
Either way it appears Powell has returned to the top of skate culture relevancy in whatever bizarre world we reside in now. Maybe not necessarily causing sales to sky rocket but in visibility and brand recognition.
Are the death of big boy’s to blame? Are flight decks soon to dominate every skate shops deck wall?
Is the expiration date of most skate brands Pontus spoke of in a past interview around the corner?
I was actually surprised to learn that the Polar vid was able to reach 50K views.
Was Polar the company that used the music from Future Primitive?
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Haven’t watched either and not really planning on it. I’d be more inclined to watch the Polar vid but you have to sign in and nah.
I only want traditional hotrods/customs on my feed.
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Something to also take into account is video length. Way more people will click on a video that goes for a couple minutes than something that goes for a half hour
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I had to see the yoga mat with my own eyes. As expected it was disgusting. I'm satisfied.
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It's business as usual. People like sports and shit. Can't depend on the intel
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Every person who doesn’t skate but goes on YouTube is aware of &&. Fuckers can’t help but love his zany moves and helmet wearing ethos.
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Jamie platt Jamie platt Jamie platt jamie platt
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I was not aware of this, definitely changes my perspective a bit.
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An interesting observation and a topic worth discussing. Although from what I understand from the thread about the Polar vid, the video somehow got marked as 18+ so in order for it to pop up in your suggested feed or to find it in general, you have to be logged into a YouTube account with your birthdate set into your profile showing you are at least 18 years of age. I feel like a lot of people watch YouTube but don’t have an account. This would definitely make any video miss out on all the random views you get from algorithms etc.
Videos having a million views in this day and age doesn’t mean what it did before an upload could hit some weird algorithm spike and suddenly be recommended to countless auto play feeds. That on top of the 18+ thing made a big difference I think.
not having or wanting a youtube account is why i did not watch polar. any insight as to why it got flagged?
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Do you really think a Polar vid would get more views?
the new baker video is doing really well, view-wise, but that's hardly surprising. videos on their channel always do well
If I remember correctly the BHADW2 video was up for a couple days with maybe 200k views before it got taken down and re uploaded. Honestly not surprised one bit the && part has more views than Polars new vid. It was highly anticipated and had tons of promotion on social media. I honestly didn’t even know, or forgot, Polar just dropped a vid. Gonna go watch it now.
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Andy anderssons mad wisdom part has a same kinda vibe than that richie jakcson theasher part with like a 10 milion views. New polar video speaks to skate heads andy anderson mad wisdom speaks to people who enjoy to watch people are awesome skateboarding editions. Ngl tricks on andys secret wisdom are so fucked up. But what i try to say is that both videos speaks to different demographics so i think its not to valid to compare the views.
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&& happens to have corned the much sought after nitro-circus, Facebook aunt, juggling enthusiast demographic.
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Crazy wisdom somehow gave me what skate vids 25 years ago gave me. Being excited to get to see weird novelty stuff done on a board that i haven’t seen before. Nostalgia. Just no need for it to be 12 mi with all the bails. Just Put them in a different edit.
Honestly I prefer that than some vid that’s just doing the vibe of the year great but are cringe when you watch them some years later.
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Polar’s vid is also blocked unless you are signed in which is defs detrimental to total number of views … but yeah, every man and his dog will watch && regardless of whether they actually skate or not
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Ridiculous comparison. Doesn't Richie Jackson have the most-viewed skate video ever? Regular people like watching weird skateboarding.
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The polar video was not hyped and promoted. Also Most people on the team had a few clips exept kiki oski and shin. It’s more a trip video imo
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About a week before Everything is Normal dropped, && dropped a video of him sitting in a parking lot talking about his grip tape design. Maybe a handful of flatground tricks but 99% of the video he's talking about his grip tape. It's 15 minutes long.
It has over 60k views.
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I viewed crazy wisdom once, but will not watch it again, the polar video will get maybe two or three views, I think that’s the difference, && is a novelty, his skateboarding is amusing, and fun, definitely makes for easy viewing, not saying that is dumb to enjoy that kinda stuff or anything, just nothing I equate real skateboarding too, it’s definitely a wooden toy and people shouldn’t take it so seriously, but he makes skateboarding easy to swallow and watered down, I prefer my skating with a lil edge to it
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I was not aware of this, definitely changes my perspective a bit.
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An interesting observation and a topic worth discussing. Although from what I understand from the thread about the Polar vid, the video somehow got marked as 18+ so in order for it to pop up in your suggested feed or to find it in general, you have to be logged into a YouTube account with your birthdate set into your profile showing you are at least 18 years of age. I feel like a lot of people watch YouTube but don’t have an account. This would definitely make any video miss out on all the random views you get from algorithms etc.
Videos having a million views in this day and age doesn’t mean what it did before an upload could hit some weird algorithm spike and suddenly be recommended to countless auto play feeds. That on top of the 18+ thing made a big difference I think.
not having or wanting a youtube account is why i did not watch polar. any insight as to why it got flagged?
I think it got flagged for the strip club scene(s).
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I think his board has outsold everyone else for awhile….the shift is tied to social media where the exercise isn’t quietly digesting the video and letting it affect the culture ….its spewing your opinion on it……
What I always felt was strange about polar was the people wearing the pants were different from those buying the boards….I thought the vid was great, focusing on Japan seemed pretty current.
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I think his board has outsold everyone else for awhile….the shift is tied to social media where the exercise isn’t quietly digesting the video and letting it affect the culture ….its spewing your opinion on it……
What I always felt was strange about polar was the people wearing the pants were different from those buying the boards….I thought the vid was great, focusing on Japan seemed pretty current.
Don't know I wear both the pants/shorts etc and skate the boards. Powell Peralta is lame. Just a bunch of old dudes who used to skate collecting reissues is keeping it a float. But if Tommy G. And Lance are getting checks fuck it. No way in fuck I'm gonna willingly watch that && part but as mentioned I was at the premier for the Polar and watched it loads since it's been public on YouTube.
I will give && props for not being (as far as I know ) a right wing kook like Richie Jackson.
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I think his board has outsold everyone else for awhile….the shift is tied to social media where the exercise isn’t quietly digesting the video and letting it affect the culture ….its spewing your opinion on it……
What I always felt was strange about polar was the people wearing the pants were different from those buying the boards….I thought the vid was great, focusing on Japan seemed pretty current.
Don't know I wear both the pants/shorts etc and skate the boards. Powell Peralta is lame. Just a bunch of old dudes who used to skate collecting reissues is keeping it a float. But if Tommy G. And Lance are getting checks fuck it. No way in fuck I'm gonna willingly watch that && part but as mentioned I was at the premier for the Polar and watched it loads since it's been public on YouTube.
I will give && props for not being (as far as I know ) a right wing kook like Richie Jackson.
See, this is what skateboarding is all about. Brand loyalty.
Maybe some day you'll be the weird old dude collecting Polar reissues and keeping them afloat.
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From what I can see, Powell's re-ascendance isn't as tied to marketing and nostalgia and circus tricks as everyone here seems to think. To my eyes, it's really connected to two things:
1) The team skates together every single day, appears to actually like each other and generates huge amounts of daily content.
2) They're authentically wholesome/positive/nerdy rather than edgy/negative/"cool".
In other words, they're in sync with the average kid these days.
Looks to me like "cool", "edgy", etc. is rapidly departing this realm. People are exhausted of cool guy shit and negativity. Every young person I know is hungering for positivity and inclusiveness.
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Andy’s decks alone have probably sold more than all of Polar’s combined. He’s more popular. It’s that simple.
I’m not a fan, but he makes skateboarding look fun to average folks. This is like asking why Taylor Swift sales more albums than Foo Fighters.
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Andy’s decks alone have probably sold more than all of Polar’s combined. He’s more popular. It’s that simple.
I’m not a fan, but he makes skateboarding look fun to average folks. This is like asking why Taylor Swift sales more albums than Foo Fighters.
dog there is so much wrong with this post
do your homework please
a well thought out team video isnt even comparable to a part from some youtube dork that wears 3 watches
view count doesnt mean shit for the culture
powell has been lame for decades thats not changing anytime soon
have to go wash my hands after posting in this thread
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Strongest of the strange is still the best shit ever
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From what I can see, Powell's re-ascendance isn't as tied to marketing and nostalgia and circus tricks as everyone here seems to think. To my eyes, it's really connected to two things:
1) The team skates together every single day, appears to actually like each other and generates huge amounts of daily content.
2) They're authentically wholesome/positive/nerdy rather than edgy/negative/"cool".
In other words, they're in sync with the average kid these days.
Looks to me like "cool", "edgy", etc. is rapidly departing this realm. People are exhausted of cool guy shit and negativity. Every young person I know is hungering for positivity and inclusiveness.
Sure I can see a couple of your points making sense, but there’s always gonna be a population of skating that looks at style as top, which Powell has larger ignored in favor for YouTube and technical wizards, so while this section of skating is gaining popularity right now, i think looking “cool” and being able to ride your skateboard is always gonna be the deciding factor of what “represents” skateboarding
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Is this thread just Varibots versus Z-Boyz or whatever it was a hundred years ago?
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An interesting observation and a topic worth discussing. Although from what I understand from the thread about the Polar vid, the video somehow got marked as 18+ so in order for it to pop up in your suggested feed or to find it in general, you have to be logged into a YouTube account with your birthdate set into your profile showing you are at least 18 years of age. I feel like a lot of people watch YouTube but don’t have an account. This would definitely make any video miss out on all the random views you get from algorithms etc.
Videos having a million views in this day and age doesn’t mean what it did before an upload could hit some weird algorithm spike and suddenly be recommended to countless auto play feeds. That on top of the 18+ thing made a big difference I think.
This is a huge factor about how Youtube works nowadays and I'm pretty sure this is the reason the Polar Vid doesn't show up in the recommendations and doesn't get a lot of views (as someone said in the thread most people watch youtube but don't have a youtube account).
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i mean oski’s last nike part that came out a couple weeks ago has like 90k views while that polar video is at 50k. obviously nike SB probably has a bigger pull then polar, & it’s not rated 18+, but it’s interesting to note
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Is this thread just Varibots versus Z-Boyz or whatever it was a hundred years ago?
Duane spitting on Tony.
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Something to also take into account is video length. Way more people will click on a video that goes for a couple minutes than something that goes for a half hour
This was my first thought. Attention spans have never been worse. 35 min video and 12 min video is a significant difference.
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About a week before Everything is Normal dropped, && dropped a video of him sitting in a parking lot talking about his grip tape design. Maybe a handful of flatground tricks but 99% of the video he's talking about his grip tape. It's 15 minutes long.
It has over 60k views.
Ever wonder why && videos are always at least 10 minutes long? The answer is mid-roll-ADs.
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Yeah gotta hit 10 for the midrolls. And need the shareable shit that gets normys wet for the story shares.
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Polarizing>Polar……
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The polar video was not hyped and promoted. Also Most people on the team had a few clips exept kiki oski and shin. It’s more a trip video imo
It is a video from polars japan trips years 2018-2023 so its only japan footy. I kinda like that concept and japan got some sick spots, especially out the big cities like tokyo.
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I think 144p’s point is correct, even if they had done a full length….people would be more interested in &&…. Is it the brands doing too much of the same? Subpar footage? Too much content? Is it mind control?
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Powell is about to drop its first full-length in a long time. I don’t know if && will have a separate part or not, but it will make for a better comparison to see where Powell stands
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There was a time when any release from polar was considered a full length and every single one was a banger and something we all talked about for a quite a while, I might even go as far as to say trick and clothing trends might be impacted by said releases.
While I neglected to take specific factors into consideration in comparing said releases, I still feel these statistics show this shift in skate culture very boldly. I see it at retail and in the lack of participation in specific demographics.
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Polarizing>Polar……
Hard agree, everybody needs one, been on my fiber rider having a blast, I work in a warehouse and I’m always cruising around, fuck it polar and polarizer collab would be sick too, I bet those dudes could get squirrelly
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this is a great topic, dare I say one of the best threads in a long while.
while I think these 2 videos are hard to compare, it's still super interesting.
&& reminds me a bit of Revive in the way that Revive was selling a shit ton of boards right under our noses. It took a while for the skate industry to realize what an impact they were having.
Apparently && is selling a lot of boards and i'm sure that number is going to go up. However, where are those boards going to end up? On walls? Skated a handful of times and put in a garage, basement or closet? If someone is buying a Polar board the chance is very high that it's getting skated and then they are coming back for another.
As an industry, I think we need both. If && can be a THPS or a Bam type moment that and get kids involved than that's great. But we also need to stand behind that brands that are doing actually cool shit. Cause if we don't, were gonna have a bunch more instances like Alltimers.
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There was a time when any release from polar was considered a full length and every single one was a banger and something we all talked about for a quite a while, I might even go as far as to say trick and clothing trends might be impacted by said releases.
While I neglected to take specific factors into consideration in comparing said releases, I still feel these statistics show this shift in skate culture very boldly. I see it at retail and in the lack of participation in specific demographics.
are you saying Powell's rise and Polar's decline is seen in the retail market and participation demographics? I'm curious what specifically you're seeing that is leading to that conclusion.
this is a great topic, dare I say one of the best threads in a long while.
while I think these 2 videos are hard to compare, it's still super interesting.
&& reminds me a bit of Revive in the way that Revive was selling a shit ton of boards right under our noses. It took a while for the skate industry to realize what an impact they were having.
Apparently && is selling a lot of boards and i'm sure that number is going to go up. However, where are those boards going to end up? On walls? Skated a handful of times and put in a garage, basement or closet? If someone is buying a Polar board the chance is very high that it's getting skated and then they are coming back for another.
As an industry, I think we need both. If && can be a THPS or a Bam type moment that and get kids involved than that's great. But we also need to stand behind that brands that are doing actually cool shit. Cause if we don't, were gonna have a bunch more instances like Alltimers.
I think you're spot on - Powell was the first "core" brand to follow the youtuber playbook and hire people who came up or worked extensively with the Revive/youtuber camp. They penetrate the mainstream with corniness, just like Animal Chin did back in the 80s, and a segment of them get converted to core fans. When the swell of interest from the mainstream dies down, it's the core brands and their fans, many converted from having some cheesy entrance to skateboarding like watching braille vids, that keep the stoke alive.
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There was a time when any release from polar was considered a full length and every single one was a banger and something we all talked about for a quite a while, I might even go as far as to say trick and clothing trends might be impacted by said releases.
While I neglected to take specific factors into consideration in comparing said releases, I still feel these statistics show this shift in skate culture very boldly. I see it at retail and in the lack of participation in specific demographics.
are you saying Powell's rise and Polar's decline is seen in the retail market and participation demographics? I'm curious what specifically you're seeing that is leading to that conclusion.
anecdotal evidence but i've been hearing from multiple people in major cities that polar boards are just sitting on skateshop walls collecting dust
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I wonder how many giant egg variants herorin has sold compared to &&.
I think the polar trend has kinda shifted back to DLX and Baker - and all three operate in that "core" circle.
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I wonder how many giant egg variants herorin has sold compared to &&.
I think the polar trend has kinda shifted back to DLX and Baker - and all three operate in that "core" circle.
I think the world loves A good gimmick, and while traditional trick selection and skill seemingly are taking a backseat to a more fun and interpretive approach I see heroin as being very tapped in to their target audience and listening and making what they ask for. Specialty shapes will always have people's attention, whether it's 13 inch wide eggs or 8.75 popsicle with 13.7 wheelbase. A large enough crowd is tuned into what they think works and if that group is loud enough it gets made and it feels validating for a consumer to be heard and buy the thing they feel will work for them.
are you saying Powell's rise and Polar's decline is seen in the retail market and participation demographics? I'm curious what specifically you're seeing that is leading to that conclusion.
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Well it's a tough time to assume much based off sales since participation is down and the market is saturated. But Polar has gained a stigma of selling "over priced goods" without showing a significant gain in quality or performance(I personally think the quality of their apparel is miles above the rest), and I would say the team and aesthetic might be falling out of style(pant fits, types of tops, less interesting skaters etc).
But enough people come in searching for a number of skate one/powell products(bearings,wheels,decks,accessories) whereas Polar i sell a few decks and an occasional pair of jeans/shorts and that's it.
Add to that a legion of youtube devouring isolated skaters that love clickbait titles and quirky tricks and setups and there you have it. Back in 2012 when Polar was doing things differently than the rest of the industry it was easy to see why they were successful. Making cool board shapes and interesting edits was attractive after years of the hammer program, most skaters were tired of tight jean back lips and gold chain switch krooks.
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I see && similarly to Danny McAskill the mtber. His content and style of riding is specifically curated for Facebook and Reddit. Most people aren’t watching real downhill races or trials riding, but MOST people have seen a video of Danny mcaskill on their feed doing a backflip with a baby trailer….
Doesn’t take away from his skill level, but it’s more or less designed for the algorithm…
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There was a time when any release from polar was considered a full length and every single one was a banger and something we all talked about for a quite a while, I might even go as far as to say trick and clothing trends might be impacted by said releases.
While I neglected to take specific factors into consideration in comparing said releases, I still feel these statistics show this shift in skate culture very boldly. I see it at retail and in the lack of participation in specific demographics.
are you saying Powell's rise and Polar's decline is seen in the retail market and participation demographics? I'm curious what specifically you're seeing that is leading to that conclusion.
I work at a shop in a major city and Polar boards remain one of our best selling brands.
Powell is typically desired by the occasional re-issue head who often prefer to just look at it and reminisce rather than actually spend any money on it. We’ve sold some of those Andy Anderson boards and it’s typically some guy who’s just getting into it who thinks that board is the only way he’ll get good at skating because of whatever he heard on YouTube.
Baker, DLX, Quasi and Limosine do well too.
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I think its interesting that everyone ive seen with a flight or vx deck is not the type of skater to snap boards anyways.
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I think its interesting that everyone ive seen with a flight or vx deck is not the type of skater to snap boards anyways.
It's kind of like a luxury car or that the most expensive is the best. Or maybe they think the stiffer board will help their skating. I see it a lot, maybe compensating for lack of skill.
Had some interesting conversations at the shop this week about skating and perceptions of brands and skaters.
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Solution is rather simple: && on Polar
Dan Corrigan and NKA will film it with their iPhones (11 Max)
The guy who edited Micky Papa's video will edit this one (Chase from The Berrics will help him)
Damn, this post was inspired. I should seize this high energy state I'm in and finish writing Dead Souls.
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&& and Powell are filling the niche skateboarding started opening up to the world with the involvement of corporate shoe companies, the olympics, and skate coach parents: family friendly good vibes skateboarding that people of all ages and backgrounds can enjoy. It happens to any subculture that goes mainstream. It's kind of like Disney's interpretation of punk or heavy metal music. And that niche naturally has a wider population which translates to more views.
This is not a judgment BTW, just an observation.
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Powel is 50 seconds of summer and polar is the buzzcocks