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Skateboarding => Shoes & Gear => Topic started by: clintendo on June 03, 2018, 05:20:45 PM
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Normally not one to post a thread, just comment and lurk, but a discussion among crew over the weekend sparked me to ask the slap community the question.
Do risers break boards?
Most of the crew where i live skate 56mm+ wheels as our parks are mostly transition and have shit surfaces, my theory is that risers create an introverted point of pressure against boards when not landing bolts and/or especially when landing clean in disaster/deck on coping. I've tested this a few times and have always managed to either pressure crack or clean snap decks with risers on, since switching back to no risers, have never had the issue.
With all that being said, I'm sure there's something else I'm missing or simply I'm wrong. So I ask you SLAP community, is the theory just or am I doing it wrong?
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I've been skating with risers for the past year or so, just to get a little more clearance when I started skating bigger wheels. I think I've only broken one board during that time, but that was from putting a little too much into a front lip on a curb. the physics could be different when skating transition, but I cast my vote for no, they don't make boards easier to break.
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no but weed saves lives
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i guess it could be plausible, but id venture to say that it doesnt make a noticeable difference. soft/rubber risers save boards though
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Baseplates do a good job of dissipating energy while hollow riser pads create stress risers in the board. In practice, decks break towards the middle (a natural fulcrum point) or at the tail where there is no concave. Risers wouldn't affect this either way.
It is probably more of a problem on older decks, which tend to break in front of the back truck. You could always use Shorty's solid risers (never liked the soft pads that squish out).
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You need these:
https://www.skatesonhaight.com/Santa-Cruz-Cellblock-III-Old-School-Risers-p/sccr.htm
(https://sohimages.com/images/images_soh/sccr-2.jpg)
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Cheers for the feed back, got some riser and tried them out again this afternoon, increased pop, no wheelbite and felt more locked in grinds, but did a cheeky fakie pop deck and found a lot more flex than usual... guess time will tell
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Normally not one to post a thread, just comment and lurk, but a discussion among crew over the weekend sparked me to ask the slap community the question.
Do risers break boards?
Most of the crew where i live skate 56mm+ wheels as our parks are mostly transition and have shit surfaces, my theory is that risers create an introverted point of pressure against boards when not landing bolts and/or especially when landing clean in disaster/deck on coping. I've tested this a few times and have always managed to either pressure crack or clean snap decks with risers on, since switching back to no risers, have never had the issue.
With all that being said, I'm sure there's something else I'm missing or simply I'm wrong. So I ask you SLAP community, is the theory just or am I doing it wrong?
That's one of the most ridiculous things I've read here.
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Cheers for the feed back, got some riser and tried them out again this afternoon, increased pop, no wheelbite and felt more locked in grinds, but did a cheeky fakie pop deck and found a lot more flex than usual... guess time will tell
How could risers possibly make your board flex more?
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Cheers for the feed back, got some riser and tried them out again this afternoon, increased pop, no wheelbite and felt more locked in grinds, but did a cheeky fakie pop deck and found a lot more flex than usual... guess time will tell
How could risers possibly make your board flex more?
They add a few grams of weight to the fulcrum point of the introverted pressure axiom.... DUH
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Fred
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Cheers for the feed back, got some riser and tried them out again this afternoon, increased pop, no wheelbite and felt more locked in grinds, but did a cheeky fakie pop deck and found a lot more flex than usual... guess time will tell
How could risers possibly make your board flex more?
They add a few grams of weight to the fulcrum point of the introverted pressure axiom.... DUH
I meant inverted, but even then that still doesn't make sense, so yeah my bad... I wont go trying to guess the term for it, I was curious to see if others had thought about riser in a way that they could create additional pressure against the board when landing wrong.
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I always thought risers help to NOT break boards, since there's a "cushion" between the metal and wood.
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Well the only way risers could make any difference to causing more stress on a board would be if (as someone already mentioned) it reduces the shock dispersion of landing tricks, which is highly unlikely. But nothing you add to your board could possibly make a difference in how the board flexes or cracks when pressure is applied to the middle of the board with the trucks (and risers) out of the equation such as a disaster or fakie disaster. Anyone with even a rudimentary grasp of physics should be able to think that one out.
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You need these:
https://www.skatesonhaight.com/Santa-Cruz-Cellblock-III-Old-School-Risers-p/sccr.htm
(https://sohimages.com/images/images_soh/sccr-2.jpg)
Didn't know they still sold those. I put together an 80s board recently and realized that the Cell Block made an outline in the paint like a cookie cutter. Now it looks weird with normal risers (like replacing an old toilet with a smaller one). I never understood why they made Cell Blocks hollow if it was designed to spread out energy. Some older risers pads were even worse with just an outline of a rectangle with a couple cross braces. I'm not sure if risers weakened decks in real world applications, but it didn't help any, especially when you take off the truck and see that they dug way into the deck.
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When I had very little money I used to break boards constantly so I started using 1/8” shock pads and the problem went away. Now that I am flush I decided that if I break a board so what so I ditched the shock pads. I believe stress cracks may be worse on shock pads but only because without them you would have cracked your board.
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While admitting up front that my knowledge of physics or geometry are non existent so not really gonna argue against anything, but working at a skate shop for a decade and 1/2 I will say that I see a ton of broken decks.
70% are on the inside bolts on the front or back truck, meaning not landing 4 wheels down or on your bolts.
I did start to notice that the sharp hard edge of the baseplate digging into the board might cause A more dramatic flex on a stiffer board vs having a softer riser that hangs over a bit thus giving it a bit of a cushionfor the baseplate edge to dig into, dispersing the pressure/energy over a broader area.
No math or proven theories here, just an observation.
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I think from a physics perspective they might break boards a bit easier.
Since they're rubber and compressable, under load one half of the truck could compress towards the board creating a torque on the deck, and making it a bit easier to snap around the bolts. Also, any force applied on the deck will put a bit (probably insignificant) more stress on the deck due to the increased lever arm distance (wheels further from any force applied on deck), causing a greater torque to be applied on the board.
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People break boards.
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
I always found Skateboarding less physics, more philosophy.
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
Because skaters generally don't care about science one bit, even if it's related to skateboarding. They're more interested in marketing and what they've been told is true than the actual science of it. :-\
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
Because skaters generally don't care about science one bit, even if it's related to skateboarding. They're more interested in marketing and what they've been told is true than the actual science of it. :-\
Some of us exist. We are instantly chastised by the majority for riding mini logo and theeve trucks.
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
Because skaters generally don't care about science one bit, even if it's related to skateboarding. They're more interested in marketing and what they've been told is true than the actual science of it. :-\
For the most part, the equipment we have works well enough. I've seen many new innovations over the years and they've almost all failed. Some worked well (composites) but did not live up to the feel of 7-ply maple, while others, like Powell's Boneite, turned out to be complete shams (George Powell also studied engineering at Stanford, so it's no wonder we're skeptical of the latest invention).
On the other hand, you'll see many threads discussing taking outer shields off their bearings because they sound loud (when filled with dirt) and therefore must be faster. This very website gave some concession that holographic griptape could assist with balance during tricks.
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
Because skaters generally don't care about science one bit, even if it's related to skateboarding. They're more interested in marketing and what they've been told is true than the actual science of it. :-\
For the most part, the equipment we have works well enough. I've seen many new innovations over the years and they've almost all failed. Some worked well (composites) but did not live up to the feel of 7-ply maple, while others, like Powell's Boneite, turned out to be complete shams (George Powell also studied engineering at Stanford, so it's no wonder we're skeptical of the latest invention).
On the other hand, you'll see many threads discussing taking outer shields off their bearings because they sound loud (when filled with dirt) and therefore must be faster. This very website gave some concession that holographic griptape could assist with balance during tricks.
BUMP
Fuck it, I may be outing myself as an idiot but I dont believe physics can always apply to skateboarding because there are too many factors, landing with your feet 1 inch different or landing heavier toe side or heel side, type of concrete, speed when doing your trick, so many factors I think it would be hard to account for all of them with numbers. Its trial and error. If we trusted science everytime in skateboarding we would all be skating the powell boards mentioned above.
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Riser or not, the surface of contact is the same, and so the pressure.
Plus, risers add a little flexibility between the board and the trucks.
So no, risers don't break boards.
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Installing risers on a skateboard is one of the most cost-effective ways I can transform the way my trucks and wheels perform for the better. Aside from warding off wheel-bite (https://www.concretewavemagazine.com/what-do-risers-do-on-a-skateboard/), it’s hard to beat how risers can protect me from the perils of the sport, and my deck from cracking under stress and pressure.
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
Because skaters generally don't care about science one bit, even if it's related to skateboarding. They're more interested in marketing and what they've been told is true than the actual science of it. :-\
For the most part, the equipment we have works well enough. I've seen many new innovations over the years and they've almost all failed. Some worked well (composites) but did not live up to the feel of 7-ply maple, while others, like Powell's Boneite, turned out to be complete shams (George Powell also studied engineering at Stanford, so it's no wonder we're skeptical of the latest invention).
On the other hand, you'll see many threads discussing taking outer shields off their bearings because they sound loud (when filled with dirt) and therefore must be faster. This very website gave some concession that holographic griptape could assist with balance during tricks.
BUMP
Fuck it, I may be outing myself as an idiot but I dont believe physics can always apply to skateboarding because there are too many factors, landing with your feet 1 inch different or landing heavier toe side or heel side, type of concrete, speed when doing your trick, so many factors I think it would be hard to account for all of them with numbers. Its trial and error. If we trusted science everytime in skateboarding we would all be skating the powell boards mentioned above.
Physics Teacher here:
Physics applies to EVERYTHING. You want to ollie higher? Hit the ground harder (Newton's 3rd Law). But that doesn't mean we need to ride powell flight boards. It may mean they are less likely to break, but there is a lot of room for personal preference.
As stated above me already, if the riser has the same contact area as your truck, there will be no effect on how likely you are to break your board.
I like the thought about the squishy type risers compressing at a different angle and therefore applying more pressure to the front of the baseplate rather than even distribution, but that would likely be offset by extending the time over which the force is applied, which reduces force overall. The impulse-momentum equation is Ft=m𝛥v
Meaning: any change in speed (𝛥v) for a mass (m) is caused by a force (F) applied for a certain time (t)
Since F and t are on the same side of the equation, they are inversely related...any increase in the time it take to stop you when landing on your board is offset by a proportional decrease in force applied.
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Oh shit.
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(https://c.tenor.com/udoE7O_wSx0AAAAC/mic-drop-8mile.gif)
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
Because skaters generally don't care about science one bit, even if it's related to skateboarding. They're more interested in marketing and what they've been told is true than the actual science of it. :-\
For the most part, the equipment we have works well enough. I've seen many new innovations over the years and they've almost all failed. Some worked well (composites) but did not live up to the feel of 7-ply maple, while others, like Powell's Boneite, turned out to be complete shams (George Powell also studied engineering at Stanford, so it's no wonder we're skeptical of the latest invention).
On the other hand, you'll see many threads discussing taking outer shields off their bearings because they sound loud (when filled with dirt) and therefore must be faster. This very website gave some concession that holographic griptape could assist with balance during tricks.
BUMP
Fuck it, I may be outing myself as an idiot but I dont believe physics can always apply to skateboarding because there are too many factors, landing with your feet 1 inch different or landing heavier toe side or heel side, type of concrete, speed when doing your trick, so many factors I think it would be hard to account for all of them with numbers. Its trial and error. If we trusted science everytime in skateboarding we would all be skating the powell boards mentioned above.
Physics Teacher here:
Physics applies to EVERYTHING. You want to ollie higher? Hit the ground harder (Newton's 3rd Law). But that doesn't mean we need to ride powell flight boards. It may mean they are less likely to break, but there is a lot of room for personal preference.
As stated above me already, if the riser has the same contact area as your truck, there will be no effect on how likely you are to break your board.
I like the thought about the squishy type risers compressing at a different angle and therefore applying more pressure to the front of the baseplate rather than even distribution, but that would likely be offset by extending the time over which the force is applied, which reduces force overall. The impulse-momentum equation is Ft=m𝛥v
Meaning: any change in speed (𝛥v) for a mass (m) is caused by a force (F) applied for a certain time (t)
Since F and t are on the same side of the equation, they are inversely related...any increase in the time it take to stop you when landing on your board is offset by a proportional decrease in force applied.
im not in the 'baseplates break your board" camp, but wouldnt putting the baseplate\axle a longer distance from the board or tipping point would increase the leverage? the difference is probably nothing much but im sure it affects the forces applied in some way
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I have no idea, and I have no idea why these discussions on here always seem so devoid of physicists and/or engineers. Fuck, now that I think about it, it seems like physicists would love skating.
Because skaters generally don't care about science one bit, even if it's related to skateboarding. They're more interested in marketing and what they've been told is true than the actual science of it. :-\
For the most part, the equipment we have works well enough. I've seen many new innovations over the years and they've almost all failed. Some worked well (composites) but did not live up to the feel of 7-ply maple, while others, like Powell's Boneite, turned out to be complete shams (George Powell also studied engineering at Stanford, so it's no wonder we're skeptical of the latest invention).
On the other hand, you'll see many threads discussing taking outer shields off their bearings because they sound loud (when filled with dirt) and therefore must be faster. This very website gave some concession that holographic griptape could assist with balance during tricks.
BUMP
Fuck it, I may be outing myself as an idiot but I dont believe physics can always apply to skateboarding because there are too many factors, landing with your feet 1 inch different or landing heavier toe side or heel side, type of concrete, speed when doing your trick, so many factors I think it would be hard to account for all of them with numbers. Its trial and error. If we trusted science everytime in skateboarding we would all be skating the powell boards mentioned above.
Physics Teacher here:
Physics applies to EVERYTHING. You want to ollie higher? Hit the ground harder (Newton's 3rd Law). But that doesn't mean we need to ride powell flight boards. It may mean they are less likely to break, but there is a lot of room for personal preference.
As stated above me already, if the riser has the same contact area as your truck, there will be no effect on how likely you are to break your board.
I like the thought about the squishy type risers compressing at a different angle and therefore applying more pressure to the front of the baseplate rather than even distribution, but that would likely be offset by extending the time over which the force is applied, which reduces force overall. The impulse-momentum equation is Ft=m𝛥v
Meaning: any change in speed (𝛥v) for a mass (m) is caused by a force (F) applied for a certain time (t)
Since F and t are on the same side of the equation, they are inversely related...any increase in the time it take to stop you when landing on your board is offset by a proportional decrease in force applied.
How are you guys not stoked on physics? Literally everything we do or want to do involves physics. Thanks Geezer for dropping that knowledge!