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Skateboarding => Shoes & Gear => Topic started by: dakara on July 05, 2019, 04:22:47 AM
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So after doing some quick research into the industry(mostly from reading that old forum post by the bearing engineer dude), these are a few things im fairly sure about:
- there are only a handful of bearing manufacturers in the world
- European(Swiss and German) made bearings are top quality, and will last longer, but very expensive.
- All other bearings are made in China for 10-20 cents a bearing at various factories
- There are two tiers of china bearings, 1.) non metallic bearing cage, non metallic shield(better quality, ubiquitous among "legit" skate brands) and 2.) metal bearing cage, metal shield (walmart complete bearings)
- All skateboard bearing brands buy from one of the major bearing manufacturers, slaps their shields on them, and then market them.
When people talk about their experiences with bearings that arent euro made, you almost always get wildly different feedback. From reds to andale, the reactions range from fast and lasted years to locked up in 2 weeks. To me, this indicates that the issue with non-euro bearings is inconsistent quality among anything china made, not specific brands being better or worse. Ive skated all sorts of bearings but never swiss, and to be completely honest ive never really seen much difference between any of them in terms of performance or durability which only cements my above opinion. However, reds seem to be the near universal answer to anyone who isnt going swiss, and bones/skateone have a reputation for better quality control than random bearing companies started up by enterprising pros or a deck companies bearings.
That leads to some questions, most important to me, does anyone know if say, bones reds are made in the same factory or same manufacture as bronsons(or any other skate bearing brand)? And with that in mind, even if you presume bones china bearings may have slightly better or more consistent china factory than other brands(which is very possible based on anecdotes and general skater consensus), since Reds and mini logo are both under bones(skateone), it stands to reason that both of these bearings are made by the same manufacturer. This would mean that since these are all 10-20cent bearings there is probably virtually no meaningful difference in quality between reds and mini logo except how they are marketed. The feedback ive seen on mini-logo bearings has been generally decent, leading me to conclude with the information that I have that $10 mini logos are logically the best value in bearings if you arent going swiss.
Anyone else have insight that isnt the usual "skated [insert brand] for 2 weeks and they sucked" etc
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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.
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all i can add is that in the netherlands we used to have 'budgetbeuker' around which were said to be made in the same factory as bones, just different (cheaper) branding. i ended up riding them for quite a while with no problems, so you might be right. then again, i know nothing and this is just one experience
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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.
i got 5 bucks you read the title and not the post
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A factory can be located just about anywhere and make shit or good quality. A factory will in most cases make various differing products. Some might be of higher spec than others for example. While I appreciate your thoughts on this and it really is something that should be looked at in a more scientific way, I find your view on it overly simplistic.
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all i can add is that in the netherlands we used to have 'budgetbeuker' around which were said to be made in the same factory as bones, just different (cheaper) branding. i ended up riding them for quite a while with no problems, so you might be right. then again, i know nothing and this is just one experience
Thanks for the info. That is the biggest question i have, what skate bearing brands manufacturing overlaps with each other(if any). Reds have the reputation as the best non swiss bearings, but i cant find a solid answer on the actual manufacturing landscape in china to determine if they are actually considerably different than other china made bearings, they may even be made in the same factory as some brand that has a shit reputation. The skater consensus that has led Reds to being no.1 could very well be 100% marketing, in which case just buying the cheapest non-metallic cage bearings available is the way to go.
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A factory can be located just about anywhere and make shit or good quality. A factory will in most cases make various differing products. Some might be of higher spec than others for example. While I appreciate your thoughts on this and it really is something that should be looked at in a more scientific way, I find your view on it overly simplistic.
But i was basically saying the same thing? I mentioned how the conclusion I came to is that all non-euro made bearings seem to be inconsistent in quality, which lines up exactly with your thoughts on factory quality. Since there is no cost effective way to scientifically test bearings for me and no other person doing it, I just have to do research, and what ive found is its highly likely that there is virtually no difference in discernable performance between china made bearings due to inconsistency during manufacturing, and thus just buying the cheapest is the best route
Trust me if I had the money I would gladly blow a weekend buying 50 sets of bearings of each model from various brands and doing a highly controlled test for many repetitions. But the reason I think about this stuff in the first place is I dont have alot of money so I try to get the most bang for my buck from my skate products. Flatspotting a wheel or breaking a deck could mean i cant skate for 2 weeks.
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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.
i got 5 bucks you read the title and not the post
Lol I skimmed it. He wanted a no BS answer.
I would be extremely surprised if Bronson are made in the same factory as REDS. If so, why are REDS so much better?
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mini logos and reds
thats it bro
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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.
i got 5 bucks you read the title and not the post
Lol I skimmed it. He wanted a no BS answer.
I would be extremely surprised if Bronson are made in the same factory as REDS. If so, why are REDS so much better?
I've never skated Bronson, but I've rode the gamut of non swiss bearings from black cats to deck companies etc and of course reds(on a completely fucked set rn actually). If im being completely honest, I've never noticed a big difference between any of them, which is what led me to this question. I used to think reds were the standard especially when i was a teenager, but a couple years back i realized that if I really thought about it none of the bearings ive had have really performed any different from one another and I just thought reds were the best cause thats what everyone says. I'm not saying that Bronsons are definitively on the same quality as reds much less made in the same factory, but given what the supposed facts are about the bearing industry it is highly likely that either of those are the case. We're talking mass produced in china stuff here, is the 15cent red bearings that much different from Andale's 15 cent bearing? And if reds are actually made better or more consistently, skateone/bones is the company behind both these products, meaning that its highly likely that $10 mini logos are virtually identical to $20 reds.
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A factory can be located just about anywhere and make shit or good quality. A factory will in most cases make various differing products. Some might be of higher spec than others for example. While I appreciate your thoughts on this and it really is something that should be looked at in a more scientific way, I find your view on it overly simplistic.
But i was basically saying the same thing? I mentioned how the conclusion I came to is that all non-euro made bearings seem to be inconsistent in quality, which lines up exactly with your thoughts on factory quality. Since there is no cost effective way to scientifically test bearings for me and no other person doing it, I just have to do research, and what ive found is its highly likely that there is virtually no difference in discernable performance between china made bearings due to inconsistency during manufacturing, and thus just buying the cheapest is the best route
Trust me if I had the money I would gladly blow a weekend buying 50 sets of bearings of each model from various brands and doing a highly controlled test for many repetitions. But the reason I think about this stuff in the first place is I dont have alot of money so I try to get the most bang for my buck from my skate products. Flatspotting a wheel or breaking a deck could mean i cant skate for 2 weeks.
I understand your reasoning but why don´t you buy the bearings where you know they are quality(swiss) and will last? You have to shell out more money initially but in the long run you don´t have to replace them that often and save money compared to buying new cheap bearings every few months.
Anecdotal story about my first set of swiss bearings. They lasted me 6 years without cleaning them once and are still going strong on my friends board.
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A factory can be located just about anywhere and make shit or good quality. A factory will in most cases make various differing products. Some might be of higher spec than others for example. While I appreciate your thoughts on this and it really is something that should be looked at in a more scientific way, I find your view on it overly simplistic.
But i was basically saying the same thing? I mentioned how the conclusion I came to is that all non-euro made bearings seem to be inconsistent in quality, which lines up exactly with your thoughts on factory quality. Since there is no cost effective way to scientifically test bearings for me and no other person doing it, I just have to do research, and what ive found is its highly likely that there is virtually no difference in discernable performance between china made bearings due to inconsistency during manufacturing, and thus just buying the cheapest is the best route
Trust me if I had the money I would gladly blow a weekend buying 50 sets of bearings of each model from various brands and doing a highly controlled test for many repetitions. But the reason I think about this stuff in the first place is I dont have alot of money so I try to get the most bang for my buck from my skate products. Flatspotting a wheel or breaking a deck could mean i cant skate for 2 weeks.
I understand your reasoning but why don´t you buy the bearings where you know they are quality(swiss) and will last? You have to shell out more money initially but in the long run you don´t have to replace them that often and save money compared to buying new cheap bearings every few months.
Anecdotal story about my first set of swiss bearings. They lasted me 6 years without cleaning them once and are still going strong on my friends board.
If I had the money I would, I live paycheck to paycheck and a cheap set of bearings lasts me about 8-12+ months anyways. My current set I've had for a year and a half and they are fried after getting caught in a storm on the way home last week, but I literally have $30 equiv to my name till payday next week and i cant justify doling out alot of money on swiss especially since im not American and they cost almost double here compared to the states. Your logic is sound, but I literally cant afford to drop 100USD equiv on something i can get for 20USD equiv.
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I've never had mini logo bearings. If my local has them maybe I'll try them next time I need new ones. The only reason I'm giving my non-scientific, personal experience, is to add to the pool of data. REDS have been consistently decent, SWISS crazy fast, and the only time I ventured out of the brand it was a waste of time and money.
So after doing some quick research into the industry(mostly from reading that old forum post by the bearing engineer dude), these are a few things im fairly sure about:
Link to this?
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Track down some ninja bearings, quality and bang for buck is crazy when compared to other companies
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I've never had mini logo bearings. If my local has them maybe I'll try them next time I need new ones. The only reason I'm giving my non-scientific, personal experience, is to add to the pool of data. REDS have been consistently decent, SWISS crazy fast, and the only time I ventured out of the brand it was a waste of time and money.
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So after doing some quick research into the industry(mostly from reading that old forum post by the bearing engineer dude), these are a few things im fairly sure about:
Link to this?
The original post is on an old defunct forum, this is a repost on a different forum:
https://www.boardworld.com.au/forums/viewthread/14867
I am going to pick up a set of mini-logo next week when my check clears, along with some formula 4s ive been saving up for. Currently riding some ancient cored ricta 53mms that have been worn down to 45mm, they are almost worn down to the cores lol. I will compare the innards with my current reds, although my reds are so trashed that i dont know if i will be able to learn anything of use.
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I'm my experience the best bearings are for sure bones swiss and super 6.
If you don't want to spend that much money Flip HKD, both 5 and 7, are great.
Reds is a classic safe bet.
At the end swiss are the best value for your money, last set lasted me little more than 5 years.
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I rode cheap bearings for 20 years, and finally bought a set of swiss bearings. I feel like an idiot for not doing it sooner. $65 literally makes you faster on a skateboard. I have a couple of setups, and these bearings easily have lasted 3-5 years on average, half-ass cleaned maybe once a year.
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That Rockin Ron guy knows his stuff and exposed how most of these cheap bearings all come from the same factory. Reds having some sort of higher priority/QC as they are probably the most reliable and purchased bearing on the market at that price point.
I’m not a smart consumer when it comes to bearings, because I’m too lazy to clean them. Therefore, it’s Reds for me. I’ve had Swiss and Swiss 6 that didn’t last very long due to getting dirty. Right now I have a couple wheels with Swiss in them and the rest are Reds. No shields and they’re all loud, smooth, and fast as hell. Only a matter of time until they seize up. Then I’ll open up my new pack of Big Balls.
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But i was basically saying the same thing?
No, you were not.
I mentioned how the conclusion I came to is that all non-euro made bearings seem to be inconsistent in quality, which lines up exactly with your thoughts on factory quality.
How the hell did you come up to that conclusion? Have you ever been in a factory? You seem to think a factory just churns out the exact same product over and over and that's all they do. This is very far from reality.
Since there is no cost effective way to scientifically test bearings for me and no other person doing it, I just have to do research, and what ive found is its highly likely that there is virtually no difference in discernable performance between china made bearings due to inconsistency during manufacturing, and thus just buying the cheapest is the best route
I don't trust your research one bit. Sure there might be bearings cheaper than Reds that are equally as good (or even better) but there certainly are bearings cheaper, same price and even more expensive that are far worse. All made in China. This does not support your "research".
Trust me if I had the money I would gladly blow a weekend buying 50 sets of bearings of each model from various brands and doing a highly controlled test for many repetitions. But the reason I think about this stuff in the first place is I dont have alot of money so I try to get the most bang for my buck from my skate products. Flatspotting a wheel or breaking a deck could mean i cant skate for 2 weeks.
Ok
Why you think all Chinese bearings are the same quality is beyond me.
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My last Swiss were just alright. I have reds that are faster. The last pair of bearing I thought were the shit were Swiss 6, and should buy again. I’ve had good hardlucks/Indy blacks but the long term durability wasn’t as good as regular reds. I don’t notice a speed increase with higher quality bearings, I notice a slow down with low low quality bearings. I’ve got a few decent sets of mini logos. I am not contributing anything meaningful here, I just haven’t solved the bearing riddle.
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https://www.vxb.com/searchresults.asp?Search=skateboard&Submit= (https://www.vxb.com/searchresults.asp?Search=skateboard&Submit=)
6 Balls, as RR has written up are indeed faster than your regular ABEC3/5/7/9/etc
I've ridden Swiss 6 for years, they are noticeably faster than anything I've ridden. Bronson G3s have been the second fastest - Both being shieldless and dry you can feel and hear the difference, Swiss 6 being superior.
Tolerances mean shit in skating given how we trash them, everyone should know that by now, spending $5 more for an ABEC7 is a waste; buy some $10 bearings, wait until they slow, pop the shields and replace as needed, especially if you find yourself constantly fucking up your bearings.
That said, there are clearly lower end shit bearings and higher end shit bearings (e.g., enjoi vs redz), and just like with decks (veneer quality, age of wood, QC.) companies can pick quality.
I've not ridden RR 6balls but tried Tectonics 6balls with built in Spacers and rings and they are also super fast.
I'd wager that BONES' Big Balls are probably the best bang for the buck right now.
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I just buy the $10 ones. Spitfire, Mini-Logo, Shake Junt, w/e. I'm convinced they're exactly the same as Reds. I've personally never liked Reds, they're not fast and break fast.
More expensive bearings go fast and break just as fast or faster in my experience. Haven't tried Swiss tho. Talking about Super Reds and Bronson
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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.
i've won a set of fake reds in a contest before, they're awful. i don't know how many kinds of fake reds are out there but the ones i won had bonesbearings .com (with an extra space before the .com) written on the back of the packaging. real reds don't have the spacebar in the address on there.
as for good cheap bearings, i like the modus blues i have, they're really good and haven't slowed down at all since i bought them (~2 months ago)
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I trust Powell for QC and product design more than any other company....
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I find that the evolution of the price range of Bones products match their quality. You feel the difference when you upgrade from Reds to Super Reds, and then to Swiss. It does not mean that they really worth their price, I'm sure the factory produces them for less, but at least the price is consistent with what you could expect. For all other brands, you never know what you get, they can sell you for 40$ a shitty 20cents bearing with "Swiss (made in China)" printed on it, but within a cool packaging. I guess that's why most people stick to Bones...
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Reds are really good for about 4 months and then maybe chuck em. Anything else seems like a ip off.
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I find that the evolution of the price range of Bones products match their quality. You feel the difference when you upgrade from Reds to Super Reds, and then to Swiss. It does not mean that they really worth their price, I'm sure the factory produces them for less, but at least the price is consistent with what you could expect. For all other brands, you never know what you get, they can sell you for 40$ a shitty 20cents bearing with "Swiss (made in China)" printed on it, but within a cool packaging. I guess that's why most people stick to Bones...
I concur, and BONES doesn't pull punches with pricing, given the spectrum of the product line you do get what you pay for and you can feel it.
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I'm my experience the best bearings are for sure bones swiss and super 6.
If you don't want to spend that much money Flip HKD, both 5 and 7, are great.
Reds is a classic safe bet.
At the end swiss are the best value for your money, last set lasted me little more than 5 years.
Gonna definitely agree on the Flip HKD's. I got a set of the 7s for free and they're actually probably my fastest bearings and I've done zero maintenance to them.
Swiss are great durability-wise, even with popped shields they just keep on trucking, but I've found that the regular swiss aren't really crazy fast. In my experience they're about the same as a good set of reds (I've found some reds to be better than others, probably something to do with chinese QC standards) speed wise. It's also important to note that while Chinese bearings can be absolute trash, there are plenty of good ones too. I think a lot of the Reds hype is due to A) marketing and brand loyalty and B) they're not bad bearings - but not that good either. You can definitely find better bearings in the same price range, but a lot of people stick with what they know and trust, which is Bones.
If you want something cheap and disposable go with ML or Reds if you can get them cheap. If you want something with a bit more performance but potentially shorter-lasting I'd recommend the Flips, Indy Blacks, Shake Junt triple OGs (the other SJ ones all suck), or I've also heard really good things about Modus although I haven't actually used them myself. If you want something that's going to give good performance and last a long time then go with the Swiss.
I've actually been pricing non-chinese bearings from wholesalers and have been contemplating pulling the trigger on some Japanese or some GMN, NMB, or FAG bearings (yes that's really what they're called) just to see if what Rockin' Ron preaches stands up. They're kinda expensive if you only order 8, but if you order like 200+ they're relatively cheap.
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But i was basically saying the same thing?
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I mentioned how the conclusion I came to is that all non-euro made bearings seem to be inconsistent in quality, which lines up exactly with your thoughts on factory quality.
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Since there is no cost effective way to scientifically test bearings for me and no other person doing it, I just have to do research, and what ive found is its highly likely that there is virtually no difference in discernable performance between china made bearings due to inconsistency during manufacturing, and thus just buying the cheapest is the best route
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Trust me if I had the money I would gladly blow a weekend buying 50 sets of bearings of each model from various brands and doing a highly controlled test for many repetitions. But the reason I think about this stuff in the first place is I dont have alot of money so I try to get the most bang for my buck from my skate products. Flatspotting a wheel or breaking a deck could mean i cant skate for 2 weeks.
Why you think all Chinese bearings are the same quality is beyond me.
lmfao all right man, your pissy comments are attacking points i never made. "you seem to think a factory churns out the exact same product over and over" no dipshit my entire post is literally asking about whats the no bs answer to what these factories produce and that these factories likely make INCONSISTENT product. The fucking opposite of the exact same product
"Sure there might be bearings cheaper than Reds that are equally as good (or even better) but there certainly are bearings cheaper, same price and even more expensive that are far worse" this sentence makes very little sense and your grasp of english seems to be shit tier, but if you are trying to say the quality of bearings made in china is all over the place thats literally the basis of my entire post. I understand if you arent an english language native language but your fuckboy know it all attitude is oozing out despite your inability to form coherent sentences.
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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
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Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.
Wrong!
All bearings are the same $2 chinapieces of shit with a different logo except Bones Swiss and I believe Modus are from the germany factory but don't quote me on this.
Here's my source all taken taken from this thread (http://www.concretedisciples.com/bbs/index.php?action=vthread&forum=1&topic=90)
I'll quote all the info.
"Well here's what I've learned. I am a bearing engineer of almost 20 years dealing with miniature bearings for skate, aircraft, aerospace, and NASA applications dealing with all aspects of design, and ABEC specification. More recently my nephew and I started our own High Tech Bearing Company six months ago, Ok enough bullshit. The ABEC is the allowable tolerance. The ABEC 1 tolerance for the bore of a 608 bearing is .3150" +.0000 / -.0003".==== that means the Bore could be anywhere from .3147-.3150" (8MM). ==== ABEC 7 is .3150 +.0000 / -.0002. (.3148-.3150) What does all this mean??? The Abec tolerance is all but INSIGNIFICANT in a skate application. Skateboard Truck Axels are not manufactured to the same tight tolerances as the Bearing. And the O.D. of the Bearing goes in a flexible urathane wheel. This eliminates any possible advantage of the Abec tolerance would give to assure accurate fit. The Abec is the DIMENTIONAL TOLERANCES. The Abec tolerance does cover out of roundness and for this reason I would use ABEC 3 or better. Almost any bearing with the country of origin on the bearing except for china will be Abec 3 or better. Back in the 80's they had to sort bearing lots to get the Abec 3 and Abec 7 Bearings. Todays modern machines make to Abec 3 or better even if they are marketed as abec 1. They will have an Abec 3 price and a Abec 1 price to give you a choise, but it will be the same Abec 3 bearing. ANY BEARINGS FROM CHINA WILL NOT BE BETTER THAN ABEC 1. China will put "ABEC 7" or "FUCK YOU" on the bearing if you order 5000 or more!! No laws in China against that. You cant mis-mark the bearings in the other bearing manufacturing Countries. Bearings with a Metal Ball Cage have a 40,000 RPM Rating. Plastic Cage = 100,000-150,000 RPM.
WHAT IS IMPORTANT. 1) The Manufacturer. All Chinese bearings are crap. All those weird name brands are shit. Top of the Line bearing manufactuers make 608's with the proper Raceway Curvature, cages and internal clearances. WIB, GMN, GRW and NMB manufacture the best bearings in the world for skateboard. For those of you not fimiliar with these names, WIB makes all the bearings for "Bones" All Bones bearings marked "Swiss" are manufacturered by WIB Miniature Bearing in Switzerland for Bones. GMN and GRW make all the German Bearings no matter what name may be marketet on the shield. Plastic or non-metalic ball cage will make more way more difference in speed than any ABEC change.
OPTIMAL BEARING: I have used everything in the world, Ceramics manufactured just for my SkateBoard, Abec 9, Bearings Manufacturered by every bearing company in the world. I have access to over 400 Lubricants in my field.
WHAT DO I SKATE ON ???
The best bearing by design right now is the Super Swiss 6 by Bones with SpeedCream. The Bearing had several advantages. 1) It is manufactured by WIB Bearing. 2) They are made with a tight Raceway curvature to avoid "Excess Axial Play" 3) They are supplied with a Re-enforced plastic cage rated at 150,000 RPM 4)Laberinth Non-Contacting Rubber Seals to keep out dirt. This is the obtimum design for free rotation and keeping out contamination.
Ceramic Ball Bearings are only good if they come with Plastic or Phenolic Ball Cages. As a Hardcore skater skating 4-5 days a week. Super Swiss 6 with Speed cream cant be beat. Fuc* the Abec rating. The Abec rating is designed so that the bearing has manufacturing consistancy in order to manufacture mating parts to simular tolerances. (Re: Precision Shafting and Housings.)
Ron
Oh Yeah
... one more note on why the Super swiss 6 has lower starting and running torque (This is Known as Speed to us skateboarders)
All 608's are made with 7 ball compliment. The Super Swiss 6 is the ONLY 608 manufactured with a 6 ball compliment. The Balls all bigger, can take higher load (Impact), Have less ball surphase touching the raceway with 6 balls instead of 7 which lowers the running torque of the bearing making the bearing get to full speed quicker. I am sure within the next year you will start seeing more 6 ball designs, but right now its WIB(Bones) that makes 'em...At all possible, stick with German or Swiss with Plastic or non-metalic ball cages. Any bearing with a steel cage will be slower no matter where it's made. Grease is just an oil with a thickener, the thickener in the grease will slow down your bearing and running just oil will attract contaminates from far away and not provide proper protection. Use the Good-old Speed Cream in the skate shops. By buying German or Swiss what is important is you will know the bearing is manufactuered by a very high quality bearing manufacturer who does the final raceway polishing what the chinese dont, and who it is. There are so many names and marketing stratagies going on with Chinese Bearings, you will get lost in it all. At my old Company we brought in Chinese Bearings for .12 Each. We had the Stamping machines to Mark the Shields. We did PIG,GIRL,SPEED DEMONS, and several others. All were from the same manufacturing lot with different color/marked shields. Any of those weird brands are probably a .12-.18 cent bearing made by the millions with no quality control and several key manufacturing processes left out in order to sell the U.S. for .12 cents.
Bearings marked "Thailand" = NMB
Bearings marked "German" = GMN or GRW
Bearings marked "Swiss" = WIB Bearing
Someone mentioned to me SKF Bearings. SKF Bearings are manufactured in almost every country in the world. SKF no longer manufacturers miniature bearings and hasen't for over 10 years, SKF Contracts out their miniature bearings to the Miniature Bearing Manufactuers. Last year it was IKS and NTN. Could be someone different next year. SKF Specialises in Large Bearings. Don't use SKF....
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Yes, the Bones-Chinese[Reds] are in the same class as the other Chinese Bearings. Bones China are may be a little better than the other China or unmarked brands as far as consitancy since they probably been using the same China trading Company for years, but still is a .12-.14 cent bearing.
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On your third question the smaller balls tend to brinell the bearing races easier than the larger ball will. A brinelled race will have little indends from the balls impact, basically destroying the bearing. Thicker races will make the bearing a little stronger from the standpoint of cracking the races, but that should be a rarity. But Brinelling the bearing is more common than cracking races..Should be...
As far as Bearing failure, Brinneling is one reason, Lack of proper lubrication is #1 cause for bearing failure because once you run metal on metal and balls and raceways get scored, everything will wear and fail quickly.
As far as Oust Bearings...Its another Marketing Stategy. Look, it comes down to everything I said in these bearing post as far as the bearings configuration. Notice the low end Oust MOC5 is "Carbon Steel Cage" with standard non-contacting rubber seals. Their Rolls royce is the MOC9. Here is their desciption of the Seal "The Moc 9 Buna Non-Contact Seal is set into a U-channel design in the inner and outer races to keep all foreign particles out of the ball area. It also stops any oil leakage that might occur on a standard bearing seal." THIS IS THE LABYRINTH INNER RING and seal weve been discussing that the Bones-Swiss, Black Hole Bearings have. The MOC9 also comes with a non-metalic cage....thats what makes it quicker than the MOC5. No matter what brand you like, 1) get bearings with a non-metalic cage 2) Buy the bearings with the Labyring inner ring and seal design,no matter what they may call it. Your bearings will outlast a dozen sets of the old style shielded bearings.
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The Swiss and German manufacturers make their 608 with a tighter raceway curvature as well (harder to mfr.) than the Chinese. This eliminates a lot of excess axial play(end play)in the bearing.
. . . . . . .
....As far as installing, VERY good question indeed. You can ruin a bearing installing it before it turns even once on your axel. The Rule is "Only apply preasure to the ring being mounted." To put the bearing in your wheel, some people put the bearing on the axel, unside down and press the wheel on the bearing. BAD ! The pressure against the balls can brinnell the raceway if hit with too much force. Since the Outer Ring is being mounted in the Wheel you need to apply preasure to the outer ring only! Not the inner ring. I use an Old bearing that I disassembled and have the outer ring only, put it against the outer ring of the bearing being mounted, and a small block of wood and rubber mallet. As far as removing them, another good reason not to re-use the bearings. The same rule applied to dis-assembly if the bearing is to be salvaged. However, there is no way of removing the bearing using the outer ring. Even the bearing pullers must remove the bearing by pulling on the inner ring. Brinelling will not happen everytime you mis-mount the bearings, but the degree of damage can be so slight, you may not notice. Yes, I use a bearing puller when removing bearings, however, bearing pullers were desighed for alot bigger, more durable bearings. Using a Bearing Puller on a Miniature can and will cause at least microscopic damage almost every time. Remember: Only apply pressure to the ring being mounted. Alot of people ruin their bearings before they even start!!!
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Rock’n Ronalds
Don’t bother trying to save on a used set. They get better with wear and appreciate on the secondary market.
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I still have a brand new set of Ronald’s if anyone wants them for $20 I’ll pay the shipping.
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But i was basically saying the same thing?
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I mentioned how the conclusion I came to is that all non-euro made bearings seem to be inconsistent in quality, which lines up exactly with your thoughts on factory quality.
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Since there is no cost effective way to scientifically test bearings for me and no other person doing it, I just have to do research, and what ive found is its highly likely that there is virtually no difference in discernable performance between china made bearings due to inconsistency during manufacturing, and thus just buying the cheapest is the best route
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Trust me if I had the money I would gladly blow a weekend buying 50 sets of bearings of each model from various brands and doing a highly controlled test for many repetitions. But the reason I think about this stuff in the first place is I dont have alot of money so I try to get the most bang for my buck from my skate products. Flatspotting a wheel or breaking a deck could mean i cant skate for 2 weeks.
Why you think all Chinese bearings are the same quality is beyond me.
lmfao all right man, your pissy comments are attacking points i never made. "you seem to think a factory churns out the exact same product over and over" no dipshit my entire post is literally asking about whats the no bs answer to what these factories produce and that these factories likely make INCONSISTENT product. The fucking opposite of the exact same product
"Sure there might be bearings cheaper than Reds that are equally as good (or even better) but there certainly are bearings cheaper, same price and even more expensive that are far worse" this sentence makes very little sense and your grasp of english seems to be shit tier, but if you are trying to say the quality of bearings made in china is all over the place thats literally the basis of my entire post. I understand if you arent an english language native language but your fuckboy know it all attitude is oozing out despite your inability to form coherent sentences.
Wow man, some harsh words there. Unneeded and not very shalom at all. :-X
To your first point. I was not saying that the product differences come (necessarily) from inconsistent manufacturing. Granted, I've never dealt with bearing factories but I have with many other factories and most times they make different products by design, not by accident. This is normal manufacturing. Higher spec, lower spec, different designs, you name it, they make it.
To the second point. I apologise if you failed to understand my point. I will try to type simpler sentences in the future. What I was saying is that all Chinese made bearings are not the same 15 cent bearings you keep going on about. Some are worse than others. So, I would say that Bones Reds probably are not the same exact bearing as some shit Pig bearings or whatever.
I can understand not having a bunch of money to blow around and trying to make the most out of it, I've been there too. I agree that the lack of proper information is very frustrating. I would take what ever Rockin' Ron or any other snake oil salesman says with a grain of salt.
Best thing for making bearings last is treating them well. Always use spacers and speed rings. Always use shields. If you get your bearings wet, clean them properly. The Bones cleaning kit works wonders. No need to chuck a perfectly good set of bearings just because they got dirty or a bit rusty from some rain. I've kept a set of Reds running for years by cleaning them every now and then.
Oh, just wanted to say that I didn't mean to offend you but that's how it seems to have come across. I just find your view of how factories, and manufacturing in general, work to not be very realistic.
Shalom and let's all be nice to each other. No need to be calling anyone names or resort to attacking one on a personal level. I'm just trying to discuss the subject here. I understand that none of the replies have given you the final truth that you are looking for. I too have been annoyed by such situations many times but sadly sometimes that's just how it is, especially with skateboarding.
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If you’re an adult and not rocking swiss/6balls you’re blowing it big time imo. Also, I’ve found out that my swiss aren’t probably any faster than cheap chinese bearings but they roll a lot longer...just my 2cents.
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Bones reds ceramics are 100x better than bones Swiss and they are made in China.
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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.
i've won a set of fake reds in a contest before, they're awful. i don't know how many kinds of fake reds are out there but the ones i won had bonesbearings .com (with an extra space before the .com) written on the back of the packaging. real reds don't have the spacebar in the address on there.
as for good cheap bearings, i like the modus blues i have, they're really good and haven't slowed down at all since i bought them (~2 months ago)
I’m also still riding my modus, probably going strong almost a year now.
I totally back modus, also grant Taylor rides them so yeah
Man Xen has me tempted on those 6 ball race reds though
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Anyone try the new Pig Primes yet?
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I still have a brand new set of Ronald’s if anyone wants them for $20 I’ll pay the shipping.
Do you still have them? I'll buy them or trade you a set of brand new Thunder 147s or a set of Bones OG 100 53mm.
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Bones reds ceramics are 100x better than bones Swiss and they are made in China.
Bold claim. I’ve never tried them tho so....
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Bones reds ceramics are 100x better than bones Swiss and they are made in China.
Bold claim. I’ve never tried them tho so....
Bones red ceramics were the best bearing I ever had for a day. Then half locked up the second day. The rest eventually locked up too.
Not even an exaggeration, second day skating them, both days I skated in perfectly clean conditions.
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If you’re an adult and not rocking swiss/6balls you’re blowing it big time imo.
THIS. I’ve had the same set of Swiss 6 for about 13 years now, still going strong with regular cleaning and lube. Swiss 6 + SPF = deadly fast
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Bones reds ceramics are 100x better than bones Swiss and they are made in China.
Bold claim. I’ve never tried them tho so....
Not even an exaggeration, second day skating them, both days I skated in perfectly clean conditions.
Cross them right off the list den.
My current Swiss are decent, but I have two sets of reds that broke in better and are noticeably faster. I live in a flat place, and I mainly whittle in parking lots so it doesn’t really matter. Swiss used to last longer, the one set of 6 I had were the best. I’ve been surprised by several sets of mini logos, just cheapies I out on 3rd it 4th set ups that went alright.
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You get what you pay for?
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Best low/mid range bearings I have found are Zealous, although they take some time to break in. Any six ball bearing especially ones produced outside of China will work better and last longer for skating due to axial loading. This is the reason I skate Zealous bearings because they have integrated washers and spacers so there is less axial movement inherently if you tighten them properly. Durability is good but not like a Swiss bearing with regular cleanings.
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If there’s a mad rush for affordable yet performance-loaded bearings, then the Bones Reds Bearings will be the first to fly off the shelves. Redz (https://www.concretewavemagazine.com/best-skateboard-bearings-for-cruising/)are probably the best bearings you can get without paying a fortune. Seriously, unless you're a pro in need of high performance parts, there is no reason to buy anything other than redz.
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Bones Reds and Swiss is the no BS answer.
[/size]
Reds have always done me right. They don’t last forever of course but are only like 17 bucks. I do live in the US. I have heard that in some countries you have to watch out for fake Reds.
All bearings are the same $2 chinapieces of shit with a different logo except Bones Swiss and I believe Modus are from the germany factory but don't quote me on this.
Here's my source all taken taken from this thread (http://www.concretedisciples.com/bbs/index.php?action=vthread&forum=1&topic=90)
I'll quote all the info.
"Well here's what I've learned. I am a bearing engineer of almost 20 years dealing with miniature bearings for skate, aircraft, aerospace, and NASA applications dealing with all aspects of design, and ABEC specification. More recently my nephew and I started our own High Tech Bearing Company six months ago, Ok enough bullshit. The ABEC is the allowable tolerance. The ABEC 1 tolerance for the bore of a 608 bearing is .3150" +.0000 / -.0003".==== that means the Bore could be anywhere from .3147-.3150" (8MM). ==== ABEC 7 is .3150 +.0000 / -.0002. (.3148-.3150) What does all this mean??? The Abec tolerance is all but INSIGNIFICANT in a skate application. Skateboard Truck Axels are not manufactured to the same tight tolerances as the Bearing. And the O.D. of the Bearing goes in a flexible urathane wheel. This eliminates any possible advantage of the Abec tolerance would give to assure accurate fit. The Abec is the DIMENTIONAL TOLERANCES. The Abec tolerance does cover out of roundness and for this reason I would use ABEC 3 or better. Almost any bearing with the country of origin on the bearing except for china will be Abec 3 or better. Back in the 80's they had to sort bearing lots to get the Abec 3 and Abec 7 Bearings. Todays modern machines make to Abec 3 or better even if they are marketed as abec 1. They will have an Abec 3 price and a Abec 1 price to give you a choise, but it will be the same Abec 3 bearing. ANY BEARINGS FROM CHINA WILL NOT BE BETTER THAN ABEC 1. China will put "ABEC 7" or "FUCK YOU" on the bearing if you order 5000 or more!! No laws in China against that. You cant mis-mark the bearings in the other bearing manufacturing Countries. Bearings with a Metal Ball Cage have a 40,000 RPM Rating. Plastic Cage = 100,000-150,000 RPM.
WHAT IS IMPORTANT. 1) The Manufacturer. All Chinese bearings are crap. All those weird name brands are shit. Top of the Line bearing manufactuers make 608's with the proper Raceway Curvature, cages and internal clearances. WIB, GMN, GRW and NMB manufacture the best bearings in the world for skateboard. For those of you not fimiliar with these names, WIB makes all the bearings for "Bones" All Bones bearings marked "Swiss" are manufacturered by WIB Miniature Bearing in Switzerland for Bones. GMN and GRW make all the German Bearings no matter what name may be marketet on the shield. Plastic or non-metalic ball cage will make more way more difference in speed than any ABEC change.
OPTIMAL BEARING: I have used everything in the world, Ceramics manufactured just for my SkateBoard, Abec 9, Bearings Manufacturered by every bearing company in the world. I have access to over 400 Lubricants in my field.
WHAT DO I SKATE ON ???
The best bearing by design right now is the Super Swiss 6 by Bones with SpeedCream. The Bearing had several advantages. 1) It is manufactured by WIB Bearing. 2) They are made with a tight Raceway curvature to avoid "Excess Axial Play" 3) They are supplied with a Re-enforced plastic cage rated at 150,000 RPM 4)Laberinth Non-Contacting Rubber Seals to keep out dirt. This is the obtimum design for free rotation and keeping out contamination.
Ceramic Ball Bearings are only good if they come with Plastic or Phenolic Ball Cages. As a Hardcore skater skating 4-5 days a week. Super Swiss 6 with Speed cream cant be beat. Fuc* the Abec rating. The Abec rating is designed so that the bearing has manufacturing consistancy in order to manufacture mating parts to simular tolerances. (Re: Precision Shafting and Housings.)
Ron
Oh Yeah
... one more note on why the Super swiss 6 has lower starting and running torque (This is Known as Speed to us skateboarders)
All 608's are made with 7 ball compliment. The Super Swiss 6 is the ONLY 608 manufactured with a 6 ball compliment. The Balls all bigger, can take higher load (Impact), Have less ball surphase touching the raceway with 6 balls instead of 7 which lowers the running torque of the bearing making the bearing get to full speed quicker. I am sure within the next year you will start seeing more 6 ball designs, but right now its WIB(Bones) that makes 'em...At all possible, stick with German or Swiss with Plastic or non-metalic ball cages. Any bearing with a steel cage will be slower no matter where it's made. Grease is just an oil with a thickener, the thickener in the grease will slow down your bearing and running just oil will attract contaminates from far away and not provide proper protection. Use the Good-old Speed Cream in the skate shops. By buying German or Swiss what is important is you will know the bearing is manufactuered by a very high quality bearing manufacturer who does the final raceway polishing what the chinese dont, and who it is. There are so many names and marketing stratagies going on with Chinese Bearings, you will get lost in it all. At my old Company we brought in Chinese Bearings for .12 Each. We had the Stamping machines to Mark the Shields. We did PIG,GIRL,SPEED DEMONS, and several others. All were from the same manufacturing lot with different color/marked shields. Any of those weird brands are probably a .12-.18 cent bearing made by the millions with no quality control and several key manufacturing processes left out in order to sell the U.S. for .12 cents.
Bearings marked "Thailand" = NMB
Bearings marked "German" = GMN or GRW
Bearings marked "Swiss" = WIB Bearing
Someone mentioned to me SKF Bearings. SKF Bearings are manufactured in almost every country in the world. SKF no longer manufacturers miniature bearings and hasen't for over 10 years, SKF Contracts out their miniature bearings to the Miniature Bearing Manufactuers. Last year it was IKS and NTN. Could be someone different next year. SKF Specialises in Large Bearings. Don't use SKF....
. . . . . .
Yes, the Bones-Chinese[Reds] are in the same class as the other Chinese Bearings. Bones China are may be a little better than the other China or unmarked brands as far as consitancy since they probably been using the same China trading Company for years, but still is a .12-.14 cent bearing.
. . . . . . .
On your third question the smaller balls tend to brinell the bearing races easier than the larger ball will. A brinelled race will have little indends from the balls impact, basically destroying the bearing. Thicker races will make the bearing a little stronger from the standpoint of cracking the races, but that should be a rarity. But Brinelling the bearing is more common than cracking races..Should be...
As far as Bearing failure, Brinneling is one reason, Lack of proper lubrication is #1 cause for bearing failure because once you run metal on metal and balls and raceways get scored, everything will wear and fail quickly.
As far as Oust Bearings...Its another Marketing Stategy. Look, it comes down to everything I said in these bearing post as far as the bearings configuration. Notice the low end Oust MOC5 is "Carbon Steel Cage" with standard non-contacting rubber seals. Their Rolls royce is the MOC9. Here is their desciption of the Seal "The Moc 9 Buna Non-Contact Seal is set into a U-channel design in the inner and outer races to keep all foreign particles out of the ball area. It also stops any oil leakage that might occur on a standard bearing seal." THIS IS THE LABYRINTH INNER RING and seal weve been discussing that the Bones-Swiss, Black Hole Bearings have. The MOC9 also comes with a non-metalic cage....thats what makes it quicker than the MOC5. No matter what brand you like, 1) get bearings with a non-metalic cage 2) Buy the bearings with the Labyring inner ring and seal design,no matter what they may call it. Your bearings will outlast a dozen sets of the old style shielded bearings.
. . . . . . .
The Swiss and German manufacturers make their 608 with a tighter raceway curvature as well (harder to mfr.) than the Chinese. This eliminates a lot of excess axial play(end play)in the bearing.
. . . . . . .
....As far as installing, VERY good question indeed. You can ruin a bearing installing it before it turns even once on your axel. The Rule is "Only apply preasure to the ring being mounted." To put the bearing in your wheel, some people put the bearing on the axel, unside down and press the wheel on the bearing. BAD ! The pressure against the balls can brinnell the raceway if hit with too much force. Since the Outer Ring is being mounted in the Wheel you need to apply preasure to the outer ring only! Not the inner ring. I use an Old bearing that I disassembled and have the outer ring only, put it against the outer ring of the bearing being mounted, and a small block of wood and rubber mallet. As far as removing them, another good reason not to re-use the bearings. The same rule applied to dis-assembly if the bearing is to be salvaged. However, there is no way of removing the bearing using the outer ring. Even the bearing pullers must remove the bearing by pulling on the inner ring. Brinelling will not happen everytime you mis-mount the bearings, but the degree of damage can be so slight, you may not notice. Yes, I use a bearing puller when removing bearings, however, bearing pullers were desighed for alot bigger, more durable bearings. Using a Bearing Puller on a Miniature can and will cause at least microscopic damage almost every time. Remember: Only apply pressure to the ring being mounted. Alot of people ruin their bearings before they even start!!!
interesting.
If you want to save money and are interested good bearings Powel Mini Logos are your best options. They last me way longer than Bones Reds and cost much less. They aren't your fastest option, but they are fast enough.
I have also had good experiences with skf 608 industrial bearings. They are a bit complicated to buy in smaller quantities and cost about the same as Bones Reds. They last a long time and are fast.
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I've had about 5 pairs of reds and mini logos over the last 15 years and I support the hypothesis that they are the same. Definitely always recommending mini logo bearings
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I hv a real Bones China Reds & fake Bones China Reds
(https://i.ibb.co/1rhsXjf/IMG-20210905-204140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1rhsXjf)
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I hv a real Bones China Reds & fake Bones China Reds
(https://i.ibb.co/1rhsXjf/IMG-20210905-204140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1rhsXjf)
Left = Real?
Right = Fake?
Have you ridden the fakes and what's your take on them?
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So after doing some quick research into the industry(mostly from reading that old forum post by the bearing engineer dude), these are a few things im fairly sure about:
- there are only a handful of bearing manufacturers in the world
- European(Swiss and German) made bearings are top quality, and will last longer, but very expensive.
- All other bearings are made in China for 10-20 cents a bearing at various factories
- There are two tiers of china bearings, 1.) non metallic bearing cage, non metallic shield(better quality, ubiquitous among "legit" skate brands) and 2.) metal bearing cage, metal shield (walmart complete bearings)
- All skateboard bearing brands buy from one of the major bearing manufacturers, slaps their shields on them, and then market them.
When people talk about their experiences with bearings that arent euro made, you almost always get wildly different feedback. From reds to andale, the reactions range from fast and lasted years to locked up in 2 weeks. To me, this indicates that the issue with non-euro bearings is inconsistent quality among anything china made, not specific brands being better or worse. Ive skated all sorts of bearings but never swiss, and to be completely honest ive never really seen much difference between any of them in terms of performance or durability which only cements my above opinion. However, reds seem to be the near universal answer to anyone who isnt going swiss, and bones/skateone have a reputation for better quality control than random bearing companies started up by enterprising pros or a deck companies bearings.
That leads to some questions, most important to me, does anyone know if say, bones reds are made in the same factory or same manufacture as bronsons(or any other skate bearing brand)? And with that in mind, even if you presume bones china bearings may have slightly better or more consistent china factory than other brands(which is very possible based on anecdotes and general skater consensus), since Reds and mini logo are both under bones(skateone), it stands to reason that both of these bearings are made by the same manufacturer. This would mean that since these are all 10-20cent bearings there is probably virtually no meaningful difference in quality between reds and mini logo except how they are marketed. The feedback ive seen on mini-logo bearings has been generally decent, leading me to conclude with the information that I have that $10 mini logos are logically the best value in bearings if you arent going swiss.
Anyone else have insight that isnt the usual "skated [insert brand] for 2 weeks and they sucked" etc
Mini logo has steel cage which would cause more friction between the balls and cage compared to the bones Reds which have a delrin/plastic cage.
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If there’s a mad rush for affordable yet performance-loaded bearings, then the Bones Reds Bearings will be the first to fly off the shelves. Redz (https://www.concretewavemagazine.com/best-skateboard-bearings-for-cruising/)are probably the best bearings you can get without paying a fortune. Seriously, unless you're a pro in need of high performance parts, there is no reason to buy anything other than redz.
Reds and mini logos never done me wrong
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I pretty much only rode reds for a decade, because of the things you mentioned (decent bearings for a decent price, everybody just swears on them). But my last 3 sets of reds were a bit disappointing and fell apart pretty quick.
Got some indy blacks and modus blues. And both are holding up really well, 2 years old now with regular cleaning. Modus a bit better quality as the indy's. Wanna try Mini Logo's next.
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lube that shit up and presto!!
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https://www.bearings-online.co.uk/item/1580/EEC/8-Skateboard-Bearings-Ceramic-Hybrid-608-2RS-Si3N4-Replacement-Bearings.html
For anyone in the UK… Industrial bearing distributor up in Scotland who happen to do a couple of skateboarding sets. For the price of a pack of Reds might be worth a punt. EEC is their own brand and despite the name I assume they’re Chinese bearings.
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In my opinion you should either buy Mini Logo or Bones Swiss and anything in-between is a waste of $$$.
I usually get a set of ML bearings once a year. Pop the shields then dry them out and they go hard. I can't feel any discernible difference between them and Reds.
Quantum bearings might be worth a look from what people have been saying but I won't be buying them until they are in my local shop.
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I hv a real Bones China Reds & fake Bones China Reds
(https://i.ibb.co/1rhsXjf/IMG-20210905-204140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1rhsXjf)
Left = Real?
Right = Fake?
Have you ridden the fakes and what's your take on them?
Right is real. i don't really see a difference in performance, but then i don't do big stair/high impact tricks anymore. For cruising and slappies, they holding up pretty good. rode them with spacers. had them for a year and half now.no experience for winter/cold weather conditions though coz i'm in a tropical climate country.
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No BS, I don’t skate fast enough for any of this to matter
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In my opinion you should either buy Mini Logo or Bones Swiss and anything in-between is a waste of $$$.
I usually get a set of ML bearings once a year. Pop the shields then dry them out and they go hard. I can't feel any discernible difference between them and Reds.
Quantum bearings might be worth a look from what people have been saying but I won't be buying them until they are in my local shop.
I'm just nobody important but I wanted to love those quantums and couldn't. I don't even skate hard but I skate most days and they shit out on me too quickly for my liking. Skated them for a few months, cleaned them 2 or 3 times, and while they rolled well when rolling well, I had to keep cleaning them and applying the lube to keep them rolling well and even then it wasn't as clean or fast as some worn in Swiss rolls. Not tryna knock the dudes, but you can get a set of Bones Swiss for $20 bucks more and know that even with minimal, if any, cleaning they're going to only get better with time.
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Quantum bearings might be worth a look from what people have been saying but I won't be buying them until they are in my local shop.
Where are you located?
I'm just nobody important but I wanted to love those quantums and couldn't. I don't even skate hard but I skate most days and they shit out on me too quickly for my liking. Skated them for a few months, cleaned them 2 or 3 times, and while they rolled well when rolling well, I had to keep cleaning them and applying the lube to keep them rolling well and even then it wasn't as clean or fast as some worn in Swiss rolls. Not tryna knock the dudes, but you can get a set of Bones Swiss for $20 bucks more and know that even with minimal, if any, cleaning they're going to only get better with time.
We’ve gone to a beefier, composite cage/retainer, in all three of our bearing series, and developed some enhancements, for those cages, to make them pretty indestructible for the abuse that skateboard bearings take (unless you take them out and purposely try to work to destroy them).
It also improves tolerance and any of those issues.
We think this will make our bearings pretty tough to beat in performance vs price.
I DM’d you
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The point of Bones Swiss isn’t that they’re the absolute fastest bearing you’ll ever own, it’s that one set of $60 bearings will spin beautifully for several years with a little maintenance. In that time, you could expect to consume 5-10 set of $20 bearings. It’s a fool’s errand to buy the cheap shit unless you are literally living paycheck to paycheck.
The Bones Swiss 6 are probably the most technically advanced skateboard bearing ever made. It addresses all of the issues with skateboard bearings and manages to squeeze out meaningfully marginal gains over the standard Swiss bearing, which itself is light years ahead of basically everything else on the market.
Otherwise I agree with the general premise that (with some recent exceptions) nearly every Asian bearing is the same, coming from the same handful of factories. The primary difference is whether they use a delrin or metallic cage. I would choose the one with the delrin cage every single time.
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Quantum bearings might be worth a look from what people have been saying but I won't be buying them until they are in my local shop.
Where are you located?
I live in New Zealand ;D I dont usually like to buy stuff from overseas unless I know its exactly what I want.
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They’re not necessarily all the same. Reds seem to have slightly better tolerances and last a bit longer and the cages seem to be higher quality. They likely have them made in extremely large numbers to get the price down whereas some other bearings might be made cheaper and in lower numbers.
I’ve had just about every low quality bearing made in the last 20 years and they’ve definitely improved a shitload. I remember easily blowing our bearings in the early 2000’s skating low impact stuff and the tolerances being so bad the bearings would rock laterally when new. My grandfather worked on high performance cars and we used to take apart my bearings and the cages on Reds were a stiffer plastic and the races were machined better.
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I've been skating some Mosaic super 0 and so far I'm pleased.
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They’re not necessarily all the same. Reds seem to have slightly better tolerances and last a bit longer and the cages seem to be higher quality. They likely have them made in extremely large numbers to get the price down whereas some other bearings might be made cheaper and in lower numbers.
I’ve had just about every low quality bearing made in the last 20 years and they’ve definitely improved a shitload. I remember easily blowing our bearings in the early 2000’s skating low impact stuff and the tolerances being so bad the bearings would rock laterally when new. My grandfather worked on high performance cars and we used to take apart my bearings and the cages on Reds were a stiffer plastic and the races were machined better.
Speed Demons were the shittiest bearings. Pig SpeedStars were surprisingly good for bearings with metal shields, not sure about the newer stuff.
Low - Spitfire Cheapshots, Mini Logo
Mid - Reds, Indy bearings (the stuff before the GP branding)
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search top 10 Industrial bearing manufacturers, and try their 608 bearings.
those prices are the same as low-end skate bearings 5~10$/set, don't believe bullshits like "Industrial bearings are bad", those bearings should be the toughest.
I bought NSK bearings around 6$/set, perform better than bones reds, no need to wash them, just change them, and it's all good.
Install bearings in the right way, use old bearing to press new ones outer ring into the wheel, don't put bearings on the axle and press, that would damage them right away. put steel tubes inside wheels to even out the lateral force. last, crank axle nut just tight enough that the wheels won't shake, otherwise every trick you did are smashing bearings sideways. it would damage axle a bit at first, so I have a lot of spare axle nuts.
black ones are shitty china bearings, green ones are NSK 608dd 0.75$/ea.
I bought a little too much, so I gave some away to my friends.
I skate in sandy place/curb, they could easily last more than half year, but for consistent feeling, I change them
(https://i.ibb.co/5KqKKgw/1601912004116.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5KqKKgw)(https://i.ibb.co/NmF4LzF/IMG-20201005-234620.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NmF4LzF)(https://i.ibb.co/fNRtPhs/IMG-20201005-235232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNRtPhs)(https://i.ibb.co/WWCwQ4f/IMG-20201110-164304.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WWCwQ4f)(https://i.ibb.co/prRS6gT/IMG-20201110-164337.jpg) (https://ibb.co/prRS6gT)(https://i.ibb.co/zPJqWCD/PXL-20210517-084952579.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zPJqWCD)
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search top 10 Industrial bearing manufacturers, and try their 608 bearings.
those prices are same as low-end skate bearings 5~10$/set, don't believe bullshits like "Industrial bearings are bad", those bearings should be the toughest.
I bought NSK bearings, around 6$/set, perform better than bones reds, no need to wash them, just change them, and it's all good.
Install bearings in the right way, use old bearing to press new ones outer ring into the wheel, don't put bearings on the axle and press, that would damage them right away. put steel tubes inside wheels to even out the lateral force. last, crank axle nut just tight enough that the wheels won't shake, otherwise every trick you did are smashing bearings sideways. it would damage axle a bit at first, so I have a lot of spare axle nuts.
black ones are shitty china bearings, green ones are NSK 608dd 0.75$/ea. in precise.
I bought a little too much, I skate in sandy place/curb, they last around half year, so I gave some away to my friends
(https://i.ibb.co/5KqKKgw/1601912004116.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5KqKKgw)(https://i.ibb.co/NmF4LzF/IMG-20201005-234620.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NmF4LzF)(https://i.ibb.co/fNRtPhs/IMG-20201005-235232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNRtPhs)(https://i.ibb.co/WWCwQ4f/IMG-20201110-164304.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WWCwQ4f)(https://i.ibb.co/prRS6gT/IMG-20201110-164337.jpg) (https://ibb.co/prRS6gT)(https://i.ibb.co/zPJqWCD/PXL-20210517-084952579.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zPJqWCD)
NSK are indeed heavy duty..readily available at the local industrial spare parts shop. i've even tried NTN bearings back in the 90s. went to the local spare part shop with a busted generic 608ZZ bearing, and the guy at the counter showed me the NTN bearings. cheap and does the job.
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Just buy Bones Reds, Bones Swiss, or Quantums. Anything else isn’t worth the risk or headache.
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Just buy Bones Reds, Bones Swiss, or Quantums. Anything else isn’t worth the risk or headache.
This is seriously the most boring, but true statement. I'd even just say buy bones Swiss. Its not like they're $1000. For $65 you can have one of the fastest and most reliable bearings ever made. I've had my current pair for probably 3 years and they're still perfect.
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Reds have treated me well. Big balls were complete trash. Never tried Swiss but want to try them. I tried some Modus bearings and so far(two months) been super good.
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Just buy Bones Reds, Bones Swiss, or Quantums. Anything else isn’t worth the risk or headache.
This is seriously the most boring, but true statement. I'd even just say buy bones Swiss. Its not like they're $1000. For $65 you can have one of the fastest and most reliable bearings ever made. I've had my current pair for probably 3 years and they're still perfect.
That’s what I am saying. It’s foolish to buy cheap, shitty bearings twice a year for $20, when bearings which will last you several years with minimal maintenance cost $60.
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Bones Swiss are the best ever. Period.
I've had a lot of success with Andale's models that are under $30 for cheap setups. Reds are also fantastic but it's been a few years since I've ridden them
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Rockn' Rons are the only bearing I've paid less than $30 on and wasn't disappointed. They're as good as swiss.
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Rockn' Rons are the only bearing I've paid less than $30 on and wasn't disappointed. They're as good as swiss.
Yep, the set I had were awesome.
Still going too, last I heard, as I had passed them on to someone else.
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Just buy Bones Reds, Bones Swiss, or Quantums. Anything else isn’t worth the risk or headache.
This is seriously the most boring, but true statement. I'd even just say buy bones Swiss. Its not like they're $1000. For $65 you can have one of the fastest and most reliable bearings ever made. I've had my current pair for probably 3 years and they're still perfect.
That’s what I am saying. It’s foolish to buy cheap, shitty bearings twice a year for $20, when bearings which will last you several years with minimal maintenance cost $60.
This might be a stupid question, but when switching out wheels how do you remove the bearings without damaging them? I don't think i've ever removed bearings from a set of f4s without murdering them out of stupidity
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Just buy Bones Reds, Bones Swiss, or Quantums. Anything else isn’t worth the risk or headache.
This is seriously the most boring, but true statement. I'd even just say buy bones Swiss. Its not like they're $1000. For $65 you can have one of the fastest and most reliable bearings ever made. I've had my current pair for probably 3 years and they're still perfect.
That’s what I am saying. It’s foolish to buy cheap, shitty bearings twice a year for $20, when bearings which will last you several years with minimal maintenance cost $60.
This might be a stupid question, but when switching out wheels how do you remove the bearings without damaging them? I don't think i've ever removed bearings from a set of f4s without murdering them out of stupidity
Some "bearing scientist type people" say they never take bearings out of wheels once they are in, which is all good and well for them.
For me, the same way they go on, using the truck axle to get them off, prying with two fingers on one side of the wheel and a thumb on the other, with the bearing just over the end of the axle.
If some bearings are particularly stubborn, I had dropped a touch of lube or something down beside or round the bearing, then worked it with a screwdriver (through where the axle would be) and it came out fairly easily after that. Same for getting some bearings into wheels, especially if they are older wheels, so the bearings go in way more easily with a touch of lube run round the inside of the wheel.
Never really had good bearings break on me when changing over wheels and I have reused plenty of Bones swiss and other brands in twenty years doing it for skate setups in shop situations, or at skateparks and spots.
* I understand the whole thing of a bearing press and bearing pull tool, which may or may not reduce issues with bearings, but if you are being gentle but firm, everything goes in and comes out fairly easily, usually without too much trouble. If you have to force something, stop and check whether or not it can go in more easily with a touch of lube, like a lot of other things in life really...
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Just buy Bones Reds, Bones Swiss, or Quantums. Anything else isn’t worth the risk or headache.
Thank you! High praise.
Some "bearing scientist type people" say they never take bearings out of wheels once they are in, which is all good and well for them.
Just to be clear, he’s not talking about us. ;D
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Some "bearing scientist type people" say they never take bearings out of wheels once they are in, which is all good and well for them.
Just to be clear, he’s not talking about us. ;D
That is correct.
It was from maybe ten or more years ago from an article on bearings in a mag or somewhere I would not normally consider reading, but as someone recommended it, I read it and thought "Well that was interesting" but kept it just in case.
I think something similar was said by Rockin Ron or an associate, but cannot remember.
You guys sound like you are making awesome products!
:)
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Just buy Bones Reds, Bones Swiss, or Quantums. Anything else isn’t worth the risk or headache.
This is seriously the most boring, but true statement. I'd even just say buy bones Swiss. Its not like they're $1000. For $65 you can have one of the fastest and most reliable bearings ever made. I've had my current pair for probably 3 years and they're still perfect.
That’s what I am saying. It’s foolish to buy cheap, shitty bearings twice a year for $20, when bearings which will last you several years with minimal maintenance cost $60.
This might be a stupid question, but when switching out wheels how do you remove the bearings without damaging them? I don't think i've ever removed bearings from a set of f4s without murdering them out of stupidity
Some "bearing scientist type people" say they never take bearings out of wheels once they are in, which is all good and well for them.
For me, the same way they go on, using the truck axle to get them off, prying with two fingers on one side of the wheel and a thumb on the other, with the bearing just over the end of the axle.
If some bearings are particularly stubborn, I had dropped a touch of lube or something down beside or round the bearing, then worked it with a screwdriver (through where the axle would be) and it came out fairly easily after that. Same for getting some bearings into wheels, especially if they are older wheels, so the bearings go in way more easily with a touch of lube run round the inside of the wheel.
Never really had good bearings break on me when changing over wheels and I have reused plenty of Bones swiss and other brands in twenty years doing it for skate setups in shop situations, or at skateparks and spots.
* I understand the whole thing of a bearing press and bearing pull tool, which may or may not reduce issues with bearings, but if you are being gentle but firm, everything goes in and comes out fairly easily, usually without too much trouble. If you have to force something, stop and check whether or not it can go in more easily with a touch of lube, like a lot of other things in life really...
Absolutely going to try a little lube next time, good look. It may just be because I'm buying shitty cheap steel bearings in the first place if you never warp the higher quality ones. Have definitely murdered a few pairs of reds but I've moved away from using reds anyway, were always too slow for me (or maybe they needed lube!)
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I use quantum bc even though all bearings are made in 3 or 4 factories globally, they use an office at a college to do science stuff to test them. The proof is in the pudding loom at the logo its like sciency.
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I hv a real Bones China Reds & fake Bones China Reds
(https://i.ibb.co/1rhsXjf/IMG-20210905-204140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1rhsXjf)
Left = Real?
Right = Fake?
Have you ridden the fakes and what's your take on them?
Right is real. i don't really see a difference in performance, but then i don't do big stair/high impact tricks anymore. For cruising and slappies, they holding up pretty good. rode them with spacers. had them for a year and half now.no experience for winter/cold weather conditions though coz i'm in a tropical climate country.
I have 3 sets of Reds from the same shop, but 1 set is years old and has TM, the two newer ones have ®. I'm 100% certain that shop wouldn't sell fake reds.
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I hv a real Bones China Reds & fake Bones China Reds
(https://i.ibb.co/1rhsXjf/IMG-20210905-204140.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1rhsXjf)
Left = Real?
Right = Fake?
Have you ridden the fakes and what's your take on them?
Right is real. i don't really see a difference in performance, but then i don't do big stair/high impact tricks anymore. For cruising and slappies, they holding up pretty good. rode them with spacers. had them for a year and half now.no experience for winter/cold weather conditions though coz i'm in a tropical climate country.
I have 3 sets of Reds from the same shop, but 1 set is years old and has TM, the two newer ones have ®. I'm 100% certain that shop wouldn't sell fake reds.
Skate One (the maker of Bones products) have slightly changed their product over the years to try to combat the fake Bones products on the market, so where they once had the same look as the fakes, their newer product has small changes that allow people to spot differences. After all, the people that make the fake product do try to copy it in every possible way.
That is not to say that there are not going to be some old product questions coming up from time to time, eg I still have a number of Bones Swiss bearings (new old stock) that still have the old year on the back of the box and no stickers on the front, not even a Made in Switzerland line on them, which I am keeping to use for myself, cause anyone else might say "They are fake" but I bought them through a distributor before all the new countermeasures were a thing. They still roll great too, just in case anyone was curious, being one product that could have a shelf life until the end of time.
More than anything, the proof is in using / riding them as the fake product often doesn't hold up as well as the genuine product, but often by that time, you might be thinking "These are just crap bearings" rather than "Damn I got fake bearings".
There are people I know who have bought fake bearings (swiss and other products too) from Ebay or Ali Baba and say they have had no issues with them at all, so for some they do hold up fine.
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Bearings from well-known brands are typically well-made and can handle the daily beatings of riding and cruising (https://www.concretewavemagazine.com/best-skateboard-bearings-for-cruising). It is a small price to pay rather than compromising the safety of my rides by settling for less. If there’s a mad rush for affordable yet performance-loaded bearings, then the Bones Reds Bearings will be the first to fly off the shelves. These bearings are comparable to the company’s much-pricier offerings, one of the best-selling and popular brands in the US.
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I've pretty much only skated reds for like a decade at this point.
I just keep re-using them and have at least a pack of reds in my skate spare parts bin, so when one bearing explodes I just swap it out for another red lol. Some of the bearings on my current setup have got to be years old at this point. Never really bothered with the shields or cleaning them.
Rides great!
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what bearing cleaner & lubes do you guys used when cleaning/servicing bearings?
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what bearing cleaner & lubes do you guys used when cleaning/servicing bearings?
citrus cleaner and a thin, synthetic bearing oil, like SpeedCream.