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Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: DontBlowNoBubbles on August 08, 2019, 12:02:17 PM
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Hypotheticals:
Oct. 3, 1993. You take BART from Berkeley to SF, get off at the Embarcadero stop, climb the stairs and head east down Market St. toward EMB, arguably the best plaza for skating. Tsk tac, tsk tac down the street, past brown marble and around the corner. You see your homies sitting by the 3-stair. No one’s skating as there’s just been a police sweep through the plaza. You wait; one friend lets you listen to a song from the new Souls of Mischief album on his Walkman. Then, you all start skating. You bust a buttery back tail on the high block. Friends tap their tails, a few handshakes, etc. After the sesh you and your friends grab your weeks-old, well-used Carl’s Jr. cups from your backpacks and head over there to get some free refills.
Oct. 3, 2018. You drive to Poods Park in Encinitas, one of the best plaza-inspired skateparks around. You see your homies sitting by the 6-stair with the low, perfect handrail. None of your friends are skating yet. One friend lets you listen to a song from an early-90s Souls of Mischief album on his AirPods. (Is that a thing? I realize I’m aging myself here;) Then, you all start skating. You bust a buttery back tail on the high block. A friend taps his tail, you get a single fist bump. After the sesh you and your friends cruise over to Vons and grab a drink.
Question(s): What’s happening in “real street skating” versus the park imitation? It's commonly assumed the streets are legitimate and the parks are, well, just parks. I'm not questioning that. I'm just trying to get at why? Does the back tail “count” more? “Mean” more? “Mean” differently? Is one more fulfilling somehow? Is it a question of aesthetics? Rebellion? Authenticity? Environment? Culture? Etc.
Nerd it up. Any insight much appreciated. ;)
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what would you choose?
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The fact that the park is built for skating with perfect conditions
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I’m old so the park one counts to me, but if I’m watching a video I want to see street stuff.
Also, on the street spot I’ll allow a little more sloppiness to make up for the less than perfect run up, ledge, etc. Anything from a park, especially in a video from a sponsored skater that’s supposed to be good, better look clean as fuck because the environment is perfect.
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The fact that the park is built for skating with perfect conditions
While I get what you're getting at here I think that this line of thinking needs to stop being the go-to phrase or idea when this (very thought provoking question) comes up.
1. I don't know about you guys, but the ONLY time any given skatepark I've enjoyed skating over the years could be considered to have "perfect conditions" is when the park is fucking empty;
No unaware kids skating into your line causing you to jump off wildly, no skatepark parents ferrying their foetus around on a tricycle, no scooter kids "landing" tricks infront of you with one foot landing before they do.
Yes, the obstacles themselves are designed to be skated but the conditions in skateparks are, the majority of the time, far from perfect. The few challenging sort of people I mentioned above are just as off putting- and I would argue are often more-so- as run of the mudd pedestrians you encounter and navigate while skating a street spot.
Not to mention that I can honestly say I've skated street spots that have better ground , less off putting cracks and are far less hazardous etc etc than areas purportedly designed for skating.
Apart from one particular local council park, I have to brush broken glass and shit away from skate spots more often than I have to a skateparks too.
2. The idea of a kickflip nosegrind being less legitimate/authentic or whatever because, as you say , it's being done in a park that "is built for skating with perfect conditions" is a purely philosophical arguement. I've already shown that the idea of perfect conditions is false, so I'm now focusing on the fact that it's the intent behind the obstacles manufacture that apparantley detracts from it.
Part of skatings appeal, the beauty of it, certainly comes from the idea that street skating is interpreting and using the world and it's architecture in a way that non-skaters don't. But that is only if you approach skateboarding philosophically and with a degree of pretense
As far as the obstacles themselves are concerned, I can somewhat concede that a trick performed on an obstacle not explicitly built for skating has a more pure skateboarding sense to it, but only because I have slightly romanticised notion of how poetic and expressive skating actually is at times. While I understand this notion of skateboarding being poetry in motion, I don't mean that every 5050 on a ledge or kickflip over a bench is poetic.
I do however think it's incredibly reductive to think that real expression of someone truly enjoying Skateboarding and doing something impressive can't be witnessed in a skatepark.
So, the intent behind the obstacle and its birth:
If something is built with the idea of skateboarding being performed on, in or over it and I skate it in a way not intended by its designer, is that somehow more legitimate a use of the obstacle than a standard trick?
For example:
The Zero kid does a fs bluntslide to fakie on a skatepark handrail- a manevour that involves someone using the obstacle in a way the original designer had in mind.
Wee Billy Highwaters then ollies onto a rock position at the top point of the rail before getting his back truck also on the rail, 5050s down it and yanks out.
Is that second shalom somehow more real because the designer of the park probably didn't have that use of the rail in mind when designing it?
3. A current or ex skateboarder, BMXer or roller blader (if they haven't all died from old age) is an architect. Or a surveyor. Or a land use and social development specialist. Their next project has them working on and having a degree of input and influence over the design of a public plaza. The plaza as a result has more skate friendly architecture. Is all skateboarding performed in that plaza or on its obstacles lesser because someone had Skateboarding in mind during its creation?
I don't fucking know the answers. Also I gnarred OP because it's a great question and the two scenarios you gave were very real.
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October 3rd, 1943. You wake up in the woods behind enemy lines, having had 3 hours sleep in the last month. A Nazi patrol passes on a nearby road and one stops a few feet from your position to take a shit as the patrol moves on. After he has his post dump smoke, he notices you hiding behind a tree and fumbles for his sidearm. You shoot first and hit center mass. He falls and the patrol is one short.
October 3rd, 2019. You go with your buddy to the shooting range, stopping to get coffee on the way. You're not really a gun guy, but he's paying and you've been friends since you were kids. After an hour or so, you get the hang of it and finally hit the target center mass. That paper criminal is toast.
Which one "counts" more?
I'm saying the second one, because your buddy yipped and high fived you before giving an awkward hug that lasted too long. Talk about a nightmare, jeez.
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it’s coke vs pepsi
sure, I’ll drink both, but you can’t convince me that one is better than the other
I’m so smart dude
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZRsClHH10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpZRsClHH10)
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Hey OP, is there some significance to October 3rd?
For some reason I thought the title implied a conversation about back tails on skatepark QP's vs street ledges.
Essentially the conversation is any trick...this day in age they're equal...you can get hooked up and blow up on IG from park footy. I'd argue park footy was valid back in the day with people like Penny, McCrank, Cards, Heath even had ill park footy, there's tons of legends with ill park footy in videos from back in the day, World Park, Burnside, Southbank, there's a lot. Isn't some of the early legendary Gonz footage at Blaisdell arena in HI? All the 411 contest footy? Tony's nine hundo? There's so much...
Burnquist doing the loop at Mt Baldy vs all the other loops, they all count.
There's just a lot of important skate history at skate parks that you have to count, and honestly the industry does count it. Just my $0.02
I think your homies saying you did it at a park do it in the street is just to push you. We're not team sports, stairs can be short, long, tall, or big blocks, our "counting" as a sport is more art based than actual math counting I suppose.
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Street gets more points (I don’t know who originally came up for the points system in this thread, fuck it, I’ll roll with it). I’ve always been more satisfied getting a trick on something that wasn’t designed for skateboarding, especially a ledge. There’s a few other factors that make it more rewarding- you don’t have all day to get it, once you get it you need to split and a clock is ticking as soon as you arrive. I don’t know about the rest of you nerds I get a certain amount of satisfaction when performing under pressure and succeeding.
The only other part that gives your EMB scenario more “points” (now I’m starting to think I should justify choices with group of people by saying it gets more points) is you can run from the police or bums. Parks are like cages for fun. Don’t get me wrong, my local park is almost always empty and I enjoy it. However, when I was younger and getting belligerently high behind the big quarter pipe, hiding shit from the police, let alone running from them, was borderline impossible. Shouts out to my homie Paul for eating an 8th of weed in 2005 without water.
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There's always something fucky with a street spot. Rough ground, cracks right before you want to pop, rust, weird angles, etc. Knowing that makes watching street more satisfying and exciting. But if I'm just chilling with some homies rollin around I honestly don't care if it's park, street, or flat.
But like that classic quote from whoever - nothing I do is worth more than an iPhone clip.
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I've always kind of thought of it like a surfer surfing a real beach versus going to a perfect wave pool even if the wave pool has an amazing, rolling head high a-frame that only the gnarliest guys can pull like some of the footage from BSR. It might be fun to watch but nearly everyone says "man, if only that would have been real." With that being said I am pretty much only a transition skater these days, at 34 running the streets and dodging security isn't my deal and I suck at tech and am not creative enough to find shit to do at local T.F.'s, so with the exception of a pool or a mini-ramp here or there I pretty much only skate parks so I guess by my own standard I am a wave pool dude.
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The fact that the park is built for skating with perfect conditions
Super rare kick out factor too
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The really cool thing about skateboarding is that it takes something that’s abundant and nearly global - pavement, in all its forms - and turns it into an arena for a sport/activity.
Skateparks are kinda missing that factor.
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Did U do a kicky 1 to revort?
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what would you choose?
Back in the day I would've chosen the street example. I think that had to do with a desire to identify as a "skater" more so than just a dude who skates; like, the surrounding culture -- the homies, the music, the urbanity, the cops, the rebellious nature of the activity, the repurposing of the plaza (as mentioned by lots of folks) -- played a role in how I understood and legitimized skating.
Now, from the old man view, I can separate the actual skating itself -- the finesse, technique, style, etc. -- from the context and see it for what it is; like, recently a young ripper at the park was doing flawless back smith bs180 kickflips out on a park ledge and they were clean...the environment took a back seat to the trick itself.
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Hey OP, is there some significance to October 3rd?
Wiki let me know the Souls album dropped on Sept. 28, 1993...had to be fair to the historical record;)
Essentially the conversation is any trick...this day in age they're equal...you can get hooked up and blow up on IG from park footy. I'd argue park footy was valid back in the day with people like Penny, McCrank, Cards, Heath even had ill park footy, there's tons of legends with ill park footy in videos from back in the day, World Park, Burnside, Southbank, there's a lot. Isn't some of the early legendary Gonz footage at Blaisdell arena in HI? All the 411 contest footy? Tony's nine hundo? There's so much...
Yeah, nice point here. I'd only add the parks you mention all had a certain flavor about them; they were all embedded with distinct skate culture unlike many of the current parks which are kinda like third party facsimiles. (I can't think of the World park without the graffiti, Wu, homie sessions, etc. whereas many newer parks have a sterile feel.)
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One thing about where I live up in Canada is that it’s always windy as fuck, all the skateparks are built in giant fields with nothing to block the wind so every day has 20km+ winds at the park, when i street skate that wind is blocked by buildings and makes for a much better day.
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Expand Quote
Hey OP, is there some significance to October 3rd?
Wiki let me know the Souls album dropped on Sept. 28, 1993...had to be fair to the historical record;)
Essentially the conversation is any trick...this day in age they're equal...you can get hooked up and blow up on IG from park footy. I'd argue park footy was valid back in the day with people like Penny, McCrank, Cards, Heath even had ill park footy, there's tons of legends with ill park footy in videos from back in the day, World Park, Burnside, Southbank, there's a lot. Isn't some of the early legendary Gonz footage at Blaisdell arena in HI? All the 411 contest footy? Tony's nine hundo? There's so much...
Yeah, nice point here. I'd only add the parks you mention all had a certain flavor about them; they were all embedded with distinct skate culture unlike many of the current parks which are kinda like third party facsimiles. (I can't think of the World park without the graffiti, Wu, homie sessions, etc. whereas many newer parks have a sterile feel.)
Ok word, Souls anniversary is next month!
It would be interesting to add actual examples of this to the discussion from the past, maybe there are present examples but this seems like a dated topic due to so much park footy and TF footy on IG.
For example that small rail they put up in Sorry and did all those tech tricks I think Bastien did nollie heel bs tailslide to fakie? I'd have to rewatch, but if he did, did he get credit for the NBD? Or did it not count at all? Or did it not count in our community because he got shunned by the industry?
Didn't on the 9 club experience recently, I think someone from slap actually called in about Justin doing 360 flip noseblunt on a park rail before Koston's ender in Yeah Right?
For someone's own personal experience, any age, any ability, if you learn a new trick at a shitty skate park, or wherever, that shit counts. It's once it's documented and released you'll get the comments.
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Because skaters like to think skating is an individual , free form pursuit , but in reality it is dictated by a set of written rules On what’s acceptable and what’s not.
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it’s coke vs pepsi
sure, I’ll drink both, but you can’t convince me that one is better than the other
I’m so smart dude
doublebrainsteve
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can we circa combat this thread yet?
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One is an imitation/ approximation of the other, not unlike masturbation vs. sexual intercourse. No skatepark will ever be smooth enough to replace the genuine article.
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skate parks are built to keep skaters out of the street...street will always get more respect. Like with graffiti - bombing>legal walls. Go watch some city street clips and you can see how wild shit can get real quick. Like the loc in baker 3 trying to jack the camera man.
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October 3rd 4,300,000,000 BCE
You are a undifferentiated clump of spontaneously-formed organic molecules floating aimlessly in the primordial ooze. You do not know how you got here, nor why you are here. What is this dark and foreboding orb hurtling through the vast, seemingly infinite expanse of space? You have no brain, you have no body. No thought, no vision. There really isn’t even a “you” at all, and yet... here you are, straddling the line between inanimate object and living being, the earliest ancestor to every living creature on Earth. You “see” your homies chilling in the same frothy, violent, chaotic mess which bore you. As lightening continually cracks across what will someday be known as “the sky” and as sulfuric acid rains down, you bust a buttery back tail and your homies tap their nucleotides.
October 3, 2194
The war against the machines grows ever more desperate as humans have fled the surface and live only in isolated pockets in what were once sewers and subway stations. Children hunt for rats and worms to bring back to camp, the only sources of protein still available. There have been whispers of killing and eating the elderly. They must die so that the rest of may live to fight another day.
Titanium super-soldiers scan the wastelands for traces of human life, uploading their data to a decentralized AI. The hive mind achieved sentience 30 years ago. For the shivering denizens of the subsurface, it may have just as well been 3,000 years ago. Most can’t even remember what the sun looks like.
Suddenly a grate slams down as the “pew pew” of laser-rifle fire erupts. It’s the surface scout team, they’ve been spotted and have let the machines right to us! Global positioning data of your exact location is instantly uploaded as every AI-controlled soldier within 20 miles instantly snaps around to face the underground encampment. Within 15 minutes everyone will be dead.
Knowing these are your last moments on Earth, you grab your board, and as women and children cling together and sob, you bust out one final, buttery back tail just as your robot assassins breach the flimsy sheet metal barricade. They tap the butts of their laser rifles on the ground in acknowledgment before systematically executing you and everyone you love.
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It's like climbing a wall inside a sports store vs climbing a real mountain. Don't kid yourself, we all know there's a difference.
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October 3rd 4,300,000,000 BCE
You are a undifferentiated clump of spontaneously-formed organic molecules floating aimlessly in the primordial ooze. You do not know how you got here, nor why you are here. What is this dark and foreboding orb hurtling through the vast, seemingly infinite expanse of space? You have no brain, you have no body. No thought, no vision. There really isn’t even a “you” at all, and yet... here you are, straddling the line between inanimate object and living being, the earliest ancestor to every living creature on Earth. You “see” your homies chilling in the same frothy, violent, chaotic mess which bore you. As lightening continually cracks across what will someday be known as “the sky” and as sulfuric acid rains down, you bust a buttery back tail and your homies tap their nucleotides.
October 3, 2194
The war against the machines grows ever more desperate as humans have fled the surface and live only in isolated pockets in what were once sewers and subway stations. Children hunt for rats and worms to bring back to camp, the only sources of protein still available. There have been whispers of killing and eating the elderly. They must die so that the rest of may live to fight another day.
Titanium super-soldiers scan the wastelands for traces of human life, uploading their data to a decentralized AI. The hive mind achieved sentience 30 years ago. For the shivering denizens of the subsurface, it may have just as well been 3,000 years ago. Most can’t even remember what the sun looks like.
Suddenly a grate slams down as the “pew pew” of laser-rifle fire erupts. It’s the surface scout team, they’ve been spotted and have let the machines right to us! Global positioning data of your exact location is instantly uploaded as every AI-controlled soldier within 20 miles instantly snaps around to face the underground encampment. Within 15 minutes everyone will be dead.
Knowing these are your last moments on Earth, you grab your board, and as women and children cling together and sob, you bust out one final, buttery back tail just as your robot assassins breach the flimsy sheet metal barricade. They tap the butts of their laser rifles on the ground in acknowledgment before systematically executing you and everyone you love.
nerded it up real good
opt 1
backtail is an nbd (i guess)
opt 2
backtail to end all backtails (the suicu)
i don't care much for nbd's so i say go with option two.
altough the stoke on option 1 is probably alot higher; pandora's box has been slid. I'd still be relieved I landed that last back tail of my life and didnt eat shit only to die face down in the crud, at the feet of the robot assasins
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altough the stoke on option 1 is probably alot higher; pandora's box has been slid. I'd still be relieved I landed that last back tail of my life and didnt eat shit only to die face down in the crud, at the feet of the robot assasins
I think I could rig the system. My back tails are almost nonexistent so I'd definitely miss mine and ask for three more tries. Upon the last bail, I'd pretend not to know, skate back and go for a fourth one. Not designed to ever be supposed to compute such absurd mathematical inconsistency, the AI would then recognize the superiority of the skateboarder's mindset and admit logical defeat before duly shutting down.
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Expand Quote
altough the stoke on option 1 is probably alot higher; pandora's box has been slid. I'd still be relieved I landed that last back tail of my life and didnt eat shit only to die face down in the crud, at the feet of the robot assasins
I think I could rig the system. My back tails are almost nonexistent so I'd definitely miss mine and ask for three more tries. Upon the last bail, I'd pretend not to know, skate back and go for a fourth one. Not designed to ever be supposed to compute such absurd mathematical inconsistency, the AI would then recognize the superiority of the skateboarder's mindset and admit logical defeat before duly shutting down.
ok last try
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Reading this thread while listening to the the new Tool song is the best this i ever did today.
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while I enjoy a park (when it is empty) as soon as more then 5 people are there I am out. I like street and sticking to what I know to be true, yeah there are pedestrians and shit but nothing worse then having to avoid some dumbass kid who is unaware of his surroundings. Mindfullness of others and their personal space should be taught from day fucking one. Give those around you at least 3' to 4' of personal space. Those that you personally know should get half and with all respect considered give them some breathing space as we don't want that morning breathe neither.
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Too subjective for any definitive statements.
I will say for myself that anything done on the streets is more rewarding.
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Painting walls vs. painting canvas
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I spend way more time thinking about this topic than is healthy.
Skating street, in the streets, is significant because it is the reinterpretation of architecture for purposes it wasn't designed for. It is an interaction with your surroundings and a manipulation of an environment for your own entertainment.
Street and park is like seeing a animal in the wild vs in a zoo.
For those of us that grew up in the mid-90s, when there weren't skateparks (other than the rare woodenindoor parks and a few concrete ones). Street skating was skating for the most part. Sure, there might be a ramp in someones yard, but if you wanted to skate, you go downtown and dodge security. Even growing up in a small city in CT, I look back astounded by how many great street spots we had to choose from. This was before skatestoppers were invented.
As time moved on and parks became more abundant, with street spot supplies getting low, I think it is fine to skate parks. Skate where you can and what's fun. As a middle aged man just trying to get some movement in, I'm not really about getting chased out of spots or getting yelled at by security (and most of the low ledges in town have long been blocked). The lack of "hassle" at parks is hugely appealing, scooters and crowds aside.
Nothing wrong with skating a park. But when it comes to filming, parks are for practice so you can later get the trick at a real spot. For a skater to film a part at a park... nah. Except for those rails behind Saw Con.
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The back tail.
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Nothing wrong with skating a park. But when it comes to filming, parks are for practice so you can later get the trick at a real spot. For a skater to film a part at a park... nah. Except for those rails behind Saw Con.
As a skater that had a pretty shitty spot selection in my hometown area (eastern Long Island; yes went to NYC whenever we could - skating with HH and Pang was a treat - not as homies but skaters skating spots) I sort of agree but I'm ok with park footie sprinkled it, it's still skating but the creativity and gnar that comes from real street is what gets me stoked.
I skate mostly park these days and it kinda gets me down; I'll go street solo but it just isn't the same and skaters my age that are around wouldn't dream of hucking themselves down shit (and Santa Monica isn't a street session mecca, the roads/sidewalks are rough af.)
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Playing the devil's obvious advocate:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BzMZg63Hugq/
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Skating street, in the streets, is significant because it is the reinterpretation of architecture for purposes it wasn't designed for. It is an interaction with your surroundings and a manipulation of an environment for your own entertainment.
Exactly.
Playing the devil's obvious advocate:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BzMZg63Hugq/
Using Tom Penny as devil's advocate for park skating is like saying that because Jim Morrison wore leather pants then leather pants are acceptable attire for everyone.
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Kicky back tailies count everywhere especially if you can back 1 or 3 out of them.
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Kicky back tailies count everywhere especially if you can back 1 or 3 out of them.
Stop talking like this.
P.S. Your sig is awesome.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/40/ca/c0/40cac04d5e0b87a56adce31e80f0cd3d.gif)
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October 3rd 4,300,000,000 BCE
You are a undifferentiated clump of spontaneously-formed organic molecules floating aimlessly in the primordial ooze. You do not know how you got here, nor why you are here. What is this dark and foreboding orb hurtling through the vast, seemingly infinite expanse of space? You have no brain, you have no body. No thought, no vision. There really isn’t even a “you” at all, and yet... here you are, straddling the line between inanimate object and living being, the earliest ancestor to every living creature on Earth. You “see” your homies chilling in the same frothy, violent, chaotic mess which bore you. As lightening continually cracks across what will someday be known as “the sky” and as sulfuric acid rains down, you bust a buttery back tail and your homies tap their nucleotides.
October 3, 2194
The war against the machines grows ever more desperate as humans have fled the surface and live only in isolated pockets in what were once sewers and subway stations. Children hunt for rats and worms to bring back to camp, the only sources of protein still available. There have been whispers of killing and eating the elderly. They must die so that the rest of may live to fight another day.
Titanium super-soldiers scan the wastelands for traces of human life, uploading their data to a decentralized AI. The hive mind achieved sentience 30 years ago. For the shivering denizens of the subsurface, it may have just as well been 3,000 years ago. Most can’t even remember what the sun looks like.
Suddenly a grate slams down as the “pew pew” of laser-rifle fire erupts. It’s the surface scout team, they’ve been spotted and have let the machines right to us! Global positioning data of your exact location is instantly uploaded as every AI-controlled soldier within 20 miles instantly snaps around to face the underground encampment. Within 15 minutes everyone will be dead.
Knowing these are your last moments on Earth, you grab your board, and as women and children cling together and sob, you bust out one final, buttery back tail just as your robot assassins breach the flimsy sheet metal barricade. They tap the butts of their laser rifles on the ground in acknowledgment before systematically executing you and everyone you love.
hahahah i love you <3
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Reading this thread while listening to the the new Tool song is the best this i ever did today.
Did you listen to it on your buddies airpods?
Also, that park back tail goes straight to insta.
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Street is way better for the culture. Think about the next generation.