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Skateboarding => Shoes & Gear => Topic started by: moonordie on December 31, 2019, 04:19:18 AM
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Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
As Palelight pointed:
"So as an example, if your deck wb is 14.25," and you ride Indy's your true axle to axle wheelbase is 17.25." The distance from the inner bolt hole to the center of the closest axle is added to the overall measurement, in this case, 1.5" per side."
(https://i.imgur.com/K3XWXev.png)
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Ace 44 (8.38" axle): + 2.75"
Film 5.5 (8.25" axle/6 Hole baseplate): + 2.875"
Film 5.5 (8.375 axle/4 Hole baseplate): + 3"
Independent 149 STD (8.5" axle): + 3"
Independent 169 STD (9.125" axle): + 3"
Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Krux K4 (8.5" axle): + 2.625"
Tensor ATG Aluminium 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 3.0625"
Tensor ATG Mag 5.75 (8.5" axle): + 3.125
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Thunder Hollow Lights 151 (8.75" axle): + 3.25"
Venture standard 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.25"
Venture 6.1 (8.75" axle): + 3.125”
Venture Lights 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.5"
Venture 5.8 Titanium (8.5" axle): + 3.4375
Venture 5.6 cast: +3.25
Thunder Ti Hollow Lite 148: +3.25
Independent 139 Titanium: +3.00 in
Thunder 147 Hollow Light: +3.3125 in
Destruco D2 Mids: +3.125
Thunder 161 (9.125" axle) +3.10" wb (52mm height)
Indy 215 Stage 11 (10" axle) + 3.00" wb (55mm height)
ACE 66 (9.35" axle) +2.65" wb (54mm height)
Film 6.0 raws: +3.13"
Venture 5.6 V-hollows: +3.38"
Tensor Maglight Low 5.5: +3.15"
Of course every measurement could be not 100% accurate so if you want to double check you're more than welcome.
Kudos to all the pals who fuel this such as palelight, software and AngryBlackMan ✌️
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Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Krux K4:
+ 3.125"
Tensor ATG:
+ 3.5625"
is the ATG pushed further out than ventures? need a measurement on the cast and forged ventures if you have em
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Great thread.
Gotta check my 5.75 ATG (8.5” axles) raw aluminum. Didn't think it was that far.
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from what i measured aces add roughly 3 inches, maybe a hair under
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Great thread.
Gotta check my 5.75 ATG (8.5” axles) raw aluminum. Didn't think it was that far.
Mine are the same but 5.5, I don't think there's going to be a difference.
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I would like to know how Thunder and standard cast Ventures compare in wheelbase, anyone know exact measurements?
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Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Krux K4:
+ 3.125"
Tensor ATG:
+ 3.5625"
is the ATG pushed further out than ventures? need a measurement on the cast and forged ventures if you have em
I don't have any Ventures, I'll add Ace 44 and Indy forged hollow 149 that I have laying somewhere. Hopefully somebody else will add that info before me so I don't have to setup those trucks.
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Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Krux K4:
+ 3.125"
Tensor ATG:
+ 3.5625"
is the ATG pushed further out than ventures? need a measurement on the cast and forged ventures if you have em
you don't have to, just lay them on an old deck where the bolt holes are
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Everyone bookmark this
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fq4An-DEfqc/T8URoZ_4GFI/AAAAAAAAAs8/MCWo3sQAtcg/s1600/149+axle+placement.jpg)
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Everyone bookmark this
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fq4An-DEfqc/T8URoZ_4GFI/AAAAAAAAAs8/MCWo3sQAtcg/s1600/149+axle+placement.jpg)
There's also a really good post on here where someone did this with a bunch of different trucks and took pictures too. I'm on my broken ass phone so I'm not even going to attempt to search for it but hopefully someone has it bookmarked.
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Everyone bookmark this
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fq4An-DEfqc/T8URoZ_4GFI/AAAAAAAAAs8/MCWo3sQAtcg/s1600/149+axle+placement.jpg)
They have the axle height the same for standard and forged Thunder/Venture, how can we trust it :-\
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Everyone bookmark this
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fq4An-DEfqc/T8URoZ_4GFI/AAAAAAAAAs8/MCWo3sQAtcg/s1600/149+axle+placement.jpg)
They have the axle height the same for standard and forged Thunder/Venture, how can we trust it :-\
You can't. This was created years ago and while some things may have stayed the same others have not:
Pretty sure the old 149 Thunders were used (which were low AF); old Tensors, nothing about 147 Thunders, etc., Theeve TiH vs V3...
Hell are these taken off Street Corner Ventures or DLX Ventures?
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Yeah never liked that chart, feels way outdated. Keep using original post method, that’s the point- updated measurements on wb.
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Yeah never liked that chart, feels way outdated. Keep using original post method, that’s the point- updated measurements on wb.
Always hated it tbh, a friend will check his thunder HL for measurements. I'll do the same with some Ace and Indy I have at home.
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Ahem,
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3065039#msg3065039
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3186320#msg3186320
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Thunder 151 hollow lights +3.25"
I can check Indy standard and titanium when I get home
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Ahem,
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3065039#msg3065039
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3186320#msg3186320
That Indy's and thunder are those?
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Thunder 151 hollow lights +3.25"
I can check Indy standard and titanium when I get home
Awesome, adding it :)
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Ahem,
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3065039#msg3065039
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3186320#msg3186320
Ace 44
Indy 149 Standard
Thunder 149 Team
Venture 5.8 Forged Light
Venture 5.8 Standard
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Ahem,
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3065039#msg3065039
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3186320#msg3186320
Ace 44
Indy 149 Standard
Thunder 149 Team
Venture 5.8 Forged Light
Venture 5.8 Standard
Great, adding :)
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Ahem,
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3065039#msg3065039
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3186320#msg3186320
Ace 44
Indy 149 Standard
Thunder 149 Team
Venture 5.8 Forged Light
Venture 5.8 Standard
Not a problem. I'd just want to add, it might be worth it to double check, if possible, with whoever's posting specs, that they provide pics of their measurements. And also that they double check the deck wheelbase of their test deck and to check their math. Otherwise you might end up compiling a list of sorta-accurate data. Controls are your friend when doing stuff like this.
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Ahem,
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3065039#msg3065039
https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3186320#msg3186320
Ace 44
Indy 149 Standard
Thunder 149 Team
Venture 5.8 Forged Light
Venture 5.8 Standard
Not a problem. I'd just want to add, it might be worth it to double check, if possible, with whoever's posting specs, that they provide pics of their measurements. And also that they double check the deck wheelbase of their test deck and to check their math. Otherwise you might end up compiling a list of sorta-accurate data. Controls are your friend when doing stuff like this.
I'll double check the Aces whenever I'm home ;)
In my case I tried on 14.5 WB boards.
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I'm calling a re-do on those ATG vs Venture numbers.
I recently measured 5.5 ATGs and 8.25 Ventures V-Hollows and the Tensors yielded a shorter WB by a 3-4MMs (can't recall the numbers; but even without re-measuring I can feel the Tensors being tighter on the same deck/wheels previously ridden with the Ventures.
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I'm calling a re-do on those ATG vs Venture numbers.
I recently measured 5.5 ATGs and 8.25 Ventures V-Hollows and the Tensors yielded a shorter WB by a 3-4MMs (can't recall the numbers; but even without re-measuring I can feel the Tensors being tighter on the same deck/wheels previously ridden with the Ventures.
Few months ago when I measured my ATG’s they deff were close to an Indy/thunder. I don’t recall exactly how it played out but deff not venture long
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I've been wanting to ask how you guys are measuring wb on a deck.
I've seen lotsa ppl make mistakes trying to measure center-to-center..
Does anyone actually try to eyeball the center of the hole?
And for axle-to-axle wb..
Eyeballing the center of the axle?
Use the sides, not the centers, it's the same distance.
Same side to same side..
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I've been wanting to ask how you guys are measuring wb on a deck.
I've seen lotsa ppl make mistakes trying to measure center-to-center..
Does anyone actually try to eyeball the center of the hole?
And for axle-to-axle wb..
Eyeballing the center of the axle?
Use the sides, not the centers, it's the same distance.
Same side to same side..
Deck wheelbase, most woodshops are using jigged drilling rigs. I've yet to get a deck from BBS or PS that didn't match the stated wheelbase. But for the sake of methodology, yes I'd just go from center of the hole to center of the hole. We're using imperial measurement so even if you're off slightly from the center of the holes it's not going to yield even a 1/16" of difference from say, 14.25." You'd be talking 1mm or less. And when it comes to decks, tolerances are far less tight period due to expansion/shrinkage, etc.
As for axle to axle wheelbase, yes, center, eyeballed. It's not perfect, but it's not aircraft tolerances we're dealing with either, that's why it's measured to the 1/16" not the 64th or metric. Trucks are going to move, tilt and be off center, so if you wanted to go further you can measure both sides and average the two numbers. But then you're going to step on it and it's going to shift again. So I'd say, a measurement to the closest 1/16" is probably as precise as you're going to get with the crude mechanics of a skateboard.
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I've been wanting to ask how you guys are measuring wb on a deck.
I've seen lotsa ppl make mistakes trying to measure center-to-center..
Does anyone actually try to eyeball the center of the hole?
And for axle-to-axle wb..
Eyeballing the center of the axle?
Use the sides, not the centers, it's the same distance.
Same side to same side..
Deck wheelbase, most woodshops are using jigged drilling rigs. I've yet to get a deck from BBS or PS that didn't match the stated wheelbase. But for the sake of methodology, yes I'd just go from center of the hole to center of the hole. We're using imperial measurement so even if you're off slightly from the center of the holes it's not going to yield even a 1/16" of difference from say, 14.25." You'd be talking 1mm or less. And when it comes to decks, tolerances are far less tight period due to expansion/shrinkage, etc.
As for axle to axle wheelbase, yes, center, eyeballed. It's not perfect, but it's not aircraft tolerances we're dealing with either, that's why it's measured to the 1/16" not the 64th or metric. Trucks are going to move, tilt and be off center, so if you wanted to go further you can measure both sides and average the two numbers. But then you're going to step on it and it's going to shift again. So I'd say, a measurement to the closest 1/16" is probably as precise as you're going to get with the crude mechanics of a skateboard.
Try this trick..
I use a soft (tailor/sewing) tape measure that will easily lay flat. I also line up at 1" or 2", never use the end of a soft tape.
Put your board on your lap or a table and orient is so it's nose/tail left/right, or right/left, doesn't matter which.
There's 4 bolt holes in the center that you could use to measure wb..
Each of these holes has a side/edge closer to the nose and a side closer to the tail. Nose side and tail side..
Pick a side, nose or tail..
I'm picking nose side
Measure from the nose side of 1 hole to the nose side of the other hole. This will give you center to center distance.
It's kinda the same as adding 1/2 bolt hole radius to one side and subtracting it from the other..
Also works on an assembled board if you use the heads on your hardware.
Axle wb..
Hook the end of your (hard) tape measure over the side of an axle so you can look down on the tape with griptape facing down.
We're still doing the nose side, tail side thing here
Now you just have to eyeball the axle wb by looking down at the side of the other axle. The same side as your tape is hooked on..
Sorry if I'm over-explaining..
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Great idea for a thread. It was palelight’s idea though and moonordie just stole it and did it way less properly than palelight. Kinda like someone contemplating filming a stylish and lofty kickflip down a set and you going with a ugly ass mobbed tail scrape baker maker kickflop while he’s setting up. Pretty wack.
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Great thread.
Gotta check my 5.75 ATG (8.5” axles) raw aluminum. Didn't think it was that far.
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I'm calling a re-do on those ATG vs Venture numbers.
I recently measured 5.5 ATGs and 8.25 Ventures V-Hollows and the Tensors yielded a shorter WB by a 3-4MMs (can't recall the numbers; but even without re-measuring I can feel the Tensors being tighter on the same deck/wheels previously ridden with the Ventures.
It would be nice to have multiple people check their trucks so measures can be validated.
You're totally right, I screwed up with my maths. Correcting now. I have the same result as you.
Also I just measured my Aces and I also got +2.75"
Now I'll add Indy 149 FH.
Thanks to all the pals contributing on this.
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I’m throw in..
Indy 169 standard +3”
Tensor ATG raw alum 5.75 (8.5” axle) +3.125”
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You can't. This was created years ago and while some things may have stayed the same others have not:
Pretty sure the old 149 Thunders were used (which were low AF); old Tensors, nothing about 147 Thunders, etc., Theeve TiH vs V3...
Hell are these taken off Street Corner Ventures or DLX Ventures?
If you look through the actual site (http://skateboardingismylifetimesport.blogspot.com/) you can find the full review of the truck and see if it's one of the older models or not. The ventures are DLX, he talks about the transition in the review. He also has a weight/measures spreadsheet that has a little more detail
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/edit#gid=0
Even though it's a bit dated I find that they mostly hold true when I compare against them, at least in terms of weight which is the only thing I've really kept a record of for my personal truck collection.
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Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"
I'm not buying it (but can't measure because I don't have either).
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Venture 6.1 3.125”
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Venture 6.1 3.125”
Was waiting for this. Thought it would be more!
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Was waiting for this. Thought it would be more!
I’m not so good at math but assuming the polar site is correct on the dimensions that’s what my calculator told me.
Edit yeah I re measured
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Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"
I'm not buying it (but can't measure because I don't have either).
We need somebody else to come with measurements on these 2 to be 100% certain
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Was waiting for this. Thought it would be more!
Edit yeah I re measured
Polar 8.375”, 8.5” and apparently a whole bunch of others that have the wheelbase listed as 14.5” are actually 14.375”.
Also to all my non-US or Liberian pals: when measuring inches I feel like it’s much better to measure with a tape measure with inches on it, especially when measuring stuff like this. I used to measure with a normal millimeter tape measure and convert to inches but that was a pain and for some reason I’d often be off. Got a tape measure with inches and measuring skate stuffs became easier and more accurate even though the millimeter scale is more accurate than 1/16th on an inch.
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Was waiting for this. Thought it would be more!
Edit yeah I re measured
Polar 8.375”, 8.5” and apparently a whole bunch of others that have the wheelbase listed as 14.5” are actually 14.375”.
Also to all my non-US or Liberian pals: when measuring inches I feel like it’s much better to measure with a tape measure with inches on it, especially when measuring stuff like this. I used to measure with a normal millimeter tape measure and convert to inches but that was a pain and for some reason I’d often be off. Got a tape measure with inches and measuring skate stuffs became easier and more accurate even though the millimeter scale is more accurate than 1/16th on an inch.
The polar site listed 8.625 wb 14.375 I measured 17.75 from axle to axle the 2nd time
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Tensor 8.5 ATG mag: +3.125
Venture 8.5 Titanium: +3.4375 (just 1/16th of an inch less than the pinned Venture light 8.5 measurement, maybe I fucked up but it definitely didn't look like the full +3.5)
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Strap in.
This has sort of turned into the giant mess I hoped it wouldn’t, but it’s a good reason to illustrate why.
Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle):
+ 3.1875"
I'm not buying it (but can't measure because I don't have either).
- Deck wheelbase measurement (checked at both points, aka, the control. Used South Central deck. Why? Crazy stiff, no warpage, never exhibited any expansion/contraction)
Toeside,
(https://i.imgur.com/QlD9YnL.jpg)
Heelside,
(https://i.imgur.com/SNUfojQ.jpg)
- Checking your measuring method (aka, using a different tape measure. Another method used, start from the 1” line to get the clearest alignment to the centre point of your axle, then subtract 1” from your overall measurement). See the photos above, used two separate tape measures for each measurement.
- Get good light. Keep everything flat and parallel. Ask for help (not seen in these pics, my girlfriend assisting, making sure the tape measure is where it’s supposed to be while I snap pics).
- Toeside, Thunder 149 Team Standards,
(https://i.imgur.com/76yRFnB.jpg)
- Heelside,
(https://i.imgur.com/kURWAk2.jpg)
- Are the numbers the same? Cool if yes. If no, subtract the smaller dimension from the bigger, divide your answer by 2, add that to the smaller number, convert it to imperial decimal and you have your average. 14.25" deck wb. 17.375 axle to axle (or +3.125"). Same as on the Team Hollows where the original info came from, with pics. https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=88869.msg3065039#msg3065039
- Compare a completely different setup to your control (Here’s where my Venture 5.8 casts ended up, my Hockey 8.5 with 14.25 wb, measured the exact same as on my DOA test board, both sides, with different measuring tapes).
(https://i.imgur.com/4uqxvoH.jpg)
- Commence arguing.
Also whoever said the Indy forged had a longer wheelbase. Very correct, and I didn’t know that. Indy Forged have the same wheelbase as Thunder cast. This is why it pays to ask questions. +3.125”
(https://i.imgur.com/DGhe70p.jpg)
That said, while It’s cool to be skeptical, if you’re going to be contrarian, post contrary evidence, otherwise it’s just the truck thread, which we now have like three of going concurrently. If you’re not doing the necessary work to provide the data - measuring the deck wheelbase, making sure the tape measure you’re using is accurate, checking parallel points, then averaging out the numbers, knowing the simple math involved, etc - and willing to provide pics of all of that, well, it’s just people throwing numbers out there and if it’s wrong hoping someone will catch the screwup. It ends up being as helpful as that ‘skateboarding is my life sport’ blog, which had lots of pretty - and pretty dumb - graphs but zero photos of actual dimensions, just his conclusions.
I’m not going to post anymore of my pics here, but I will make a nice tidy (fingers crossed) place where they can be referenced once I get everything in order.
Don’t take any of this as salty. Just trying to be transparent about the methodology, and also why without controls (which you can make for yourself if you don’t like mine) this info is ‘meh’ at best.
Edit: Off by 1/16" in my fraction to decimal conversions on the Thunder Team Hollows. The 3.1875," comes from my original post in the truck thread. I'm rechecking that measurement now. I'm guessing the trucks were off center.
Edit 2: Yup, rechecked, the wheelbase for the Team Standard and Team Hollow are both +3.125". This is why we double check shit.
(https://i.imgur.com/JK25JTY.jpg)
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The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.
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The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.
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Great idea for a thread. It was palelight’s idea though and moonordie just stole it and did it way less properly than palelight. Kinda like someone contemplating filming a stylish and lofty kickflip down a set and you going with a ugly ass mobbed tail scrape baker maker kickflop while he’s setting up. Pretty wack.
GANG!
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The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.
Nice work, palelight! I'm pretty blow away as I am sure most are since we've always dumped them into 'indy' or 'thunder' WB camps. It also explains why Indy forged have always felt fine to me when going back and forth to Thunder cast (which I was doing pretty much all last year and it fed the madness). In that scenario it was no wonder only turn was bugging me on the decks I was riding.
Who knew?
I didn't measure but for a quick eyeball - because the decks just happened to side by side - I lined up the rear axles of near identical WB/Length boards (Both creature Horror series 8.25" has 14.4WB, 8.375" has 14.5 WB (negligible to me and easy to math) 8.3 with ACE 8.25 with Tensor and the Tensors were easily pushed out almost a full axle width.
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Indy forged vs cast.. Thunder, Venture too
Just trying to think of reasons why forged and cast have different wb.
Have you guys watched truck making vids and seen how pivot cup holes are drilled? They just set the base plate in a jig and use a drill press, depth is set on the press. Now if they use the same jig for forged and cast, and don't put a shim under forged baseplates, then the longitudinal location of the pivot cup would change slightly. Same for when they drill the kingpin hole. But I'm thinking the holes might move closer together instead of both holes moving the same direction. I'll try getting baked and see if that helps me visualize things. Really that's just an excuse..
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
This is the best thing you can possibly do. Get out now before it’s too late
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The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.
Goddamit just when I thought I had the truck and WB shit figured out we have this revelation to throw a spanner into the works.
Cast = Thinner baseplates, Forged = thicker baseplates? I keep getting the 2 confused.
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
There is no escape, now hop onto the Sales Thread and camp out for deals on trucks.
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The Indy forged thunder cast revelation destroys everything I thought I knew about skateboard trucks.
Goddamit just when I thought I had the truck and WB shit figured out we have this revelation to throw a spanner into the works.
Cast = Thinner baseplates, Forged = thicker baseplates? I keep getting the 2 confused.
Other way around. Forged is thinner and lighter.
The "mounting pad" where your hardware goes is thinner. 1-1.5mm depending on the brand?
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@ palelight thanks for the insight and thoroughness in all. I’m going to grab a beer and remeasure using your toe side and heel side above
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
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so....does the entire thread need a recheck?
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.
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so....does the entire thread need a recheck?
This thread needs to get fucked and replaced with the thread palelight was planning on and is going to post once he gets it all together. I respect his authority on keeping it together instead of letting it be a total fucking shit show like this.
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.
Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.
If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).
I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.
Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.
Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.
If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).
I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.
Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?
It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.
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Film 5.5 (8.25" axle) +2 7/8"
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so....does the entire thread need a recheck?
This thread needs to get fucked and replaced with the thread palelight was planning on and is going to post once he gets it all together. I respect his authority on keeping it together instead of letting it be a total fucking shit show like this.
Yep. Also...I always thought my dislike of forged plates was aesthetic, but seeing all of this and going back to cast ventures makes me realize that there is a bit more substance to it.
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Kinda mind blown about the thunder standard Indy forge having the same dimension. I just switched to Indy Ti forged from thunder standards but I’m basically riding the same thing correct? I notice less wheel bite but idk what’s real anymore?
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Kinda mind blown about the thunder standard Indy forge having the same dimension. I just switched to Indy Ti forged from thunder standards but I’m basically riding the same thing correct? I notice less wheel bite but idk what’s real anymore?
Thunders getting more wheelbite than Indys isn't related to the wheelbase extension.
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so....does the entire thread need a recheck?
This thread needs to get fucked and replaced with the thread palelight was planning on and is going to post once he gets it all together. I respect his authority on keeping it together instead of letting it be a total fucking shit show like this.
Yep. Also...I always thought my dislike of forged plates was aesthetic, but seeing all of this and going back to cast ventures makes me realize that there is a bit more substance to it.
That and cast ventures being the best
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Kinda mind blown about the thunder standard Indy forge having the same dimension. I just switched to Indy Ti forged from thunder standards but I’m basically riding the same thing correct? I notice less wheel bite but idk what’s real anymore?
Thunders getting more wheelbite than Indys isn't related to the wheelbase extension.
Yeah. I was just rambling about them being almost the same except my anecdotal wheel bite situation. My bad.
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.
Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.
If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).
I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.
Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?
It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.
You're assuming I'm going axle to axle, which I'm not, I'm basing it off of the trucks holes as the manufacturers do. It could also be done axle to axle, if I like say a 17.25" axle I can find a deck drilled in a way that with certain trucks might roughly hit that.
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.
Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.
If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).
I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.
Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?
It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.
You're assuming I'm going axle to axle, which I'm not, I'm basing it off of the trucks holes as the manufacturers do. It could also be done axle to axle, if I like say a 17.25" axle I can find a deck drilled in a way that with certain trucks might roughly hit that.
Yeah but the point is that if a deck has the mounting holes 14.25" apart, they're always going to be 14.25" apart no matter what trucks you mount there. No truck will pull that measurement in or push it out at all.
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Film 5.5 (8.25" axle) +2 7/8"
Hmm, interesting. So more like Ace?
http://www.mtlmediagroup.com/loveskatemag/www/?p=1419
Guess I read this wrong. I took it as between Indy and Thunder, but closer to Indy.
He says, Closer to the Indy than the Thunder.
https://offsetskatesupply.co.uk/brand/film/
Listed heights are weird too, both 51mm and 55mm?? Wtf?
5.0 -- 51mm
5.25 - 55mm
5.5 -- 51mm
5.75 - 55mm
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.
Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.
If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).
I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.
Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?
It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.
If this is the case - in theory then my Anti Hero 14.5 wb with Aces will skate the same way as say a Krooked 14.25 wb with Indys... right? Why would I pick one over the other, aside from wanting to skate a different truck? Will the 14.5 with Aces be harder to flip than the one with Indys? As someone who can't decide between Ace and Indy, but find Aces a little short on anything under 14.5", is it detrimental at all to having the longer wheelbase even though the axle to axle is the same?
I've had too much coffee and I'm overthinking this, but I hope that made sense.
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14.25 IS my reference.
With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.
Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.
Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.
Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance :P
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
Pulling in to and pushing out to 14.25” is not possible with current trucks. All skateboard trucks push out the wheelbase from the inner mounting holes on the deck. Your way of wording this is very confusing and misleading.
Disagree (and agree!) somewhat here because that was my point, and exactly why we need this thread; you weren't confused, you understood what I was getting at.
If I'm riding a 14"/14.12" WB and ride Thunder or Ventures (pushing out the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
If I'm riding a 14.353"/14.44" WB and I ride ACE or Theeve (tucking in the WB) where does that put the WB, roughly?
We're talking about 1/8" to maybe a 1/4" inch (and that's pushing it to extremes, e.g., Theeve VS. Ventures).
I use 14.25" as the median, it's the industry standard WB. Go search around, I'll wait.
Based on that, I adjust accordingly based on the deck WB I buy. Isn't that why we're here? To find the trucks that don't fuck with the WB on the decks we like? Or to hit that sweetspot on shapes we like that may not have the wheelbase we like with the trucks we like?
It doesn’t make sense. If you’d have a reference, it might kinda make sense but it seems you don’t. Even with a reference it would still be wildly misleading. Saying that you have to get a 14.5” wheelbase board to get the same actual wheelbase with Aces as you do with cast Indys on a 14.25” board would be correct. Neither would have a wheelbase of anything close to 14.25” though but 17.25”.
If this is the case - in theory then my Anti Hero 14.5 wb with Aces will skate the same way as say a Krooked 14.25 wb with Indys... right? Why would I pick one over the other, aside from wanting to skate a different truck? Will the 14.5 with Aces be harder to flip than the one with Indys? As someone who can't decide between Ace and Indy, but find Aces a little short on anything under 14.5", is it detrimental at all to having the longer wheelbase even though the axle to axle is the same?
I've had too much coffee and I'm overthinking this, but I hope that made sense.
Well you'll have the same effective wheelbase which nice to keep consistent, but there's a lot more to how your setup feels overall (length of board, length and steepness of kicks, truck height, weight and geometry etc)
I recently tried a krooked with a 14.5 wheelbase on tensor atgs, coming from skating 14.25s on ventures. The effective wheelbases were very close (negligible difference) but holy fuck they felt so different in practice. (probably doesn't help that the krooked was 32.25 and the other board was 32)
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14.25 IS my reference.
With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.
Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.
Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.
Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance :P
This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! :D) do nothing to it.
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14.25 IS my reference.
With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.
Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.
Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.
Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance :P
This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! :D) do nothing to it.
Same, I use Indys as the mid point and plot trucks on either side of it. Palelight's recent measurement on the forged and cast base plates does muddy the water here.
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14.25 IS my reference.
With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.
Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.
Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.
Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance :P
This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! :D) do nothing to it.
Its pretty obvious what he means. Nobody actually thinks that putting trucks on a board is going to make your effective wheelbase shorter than 14 inches.
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14.25 IS my reference.
With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.
Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.
Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.
Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance :P
This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! :D) do nothing to it.
Its pretty obvious what he means. Nobody actually thinks that putting trucks on a board is going to make your effective wheelbase shorter than 14 inches.
It is? Please elaborate then cuz I sure as fuck don’t get it.
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14.25 IS my reference.
With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.
Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.
Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.
Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance :P
This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! :D) do nothing to it.
Its pretty obvious what he means. Nobody actually thinks that putting trucks on a board is going to make your effective wheelbase shorter than 14 inches.
It is? Please elaborate then cuz I sure as fuck don’t get it.
Thunders and Ventures are considered to be 'longer wheelbase trucks' whilst Indy and Ace are generally considered to be 'shorter wheelbase trucks', hence the terms 'push out' and 'pull in'. Obviously its not technically correct, since Aces don't pull in your wheelbase to be shorter than 14.25 inches, its just pulls your wb in relative to if you had ventures on. We're speaking colloquially here.
I explain trucks affecting wheelbase in this exact way, using the terms 'pull in' and 'push out', to my friends who often have no idea what wheelbase is and it makes perfect sense to them. Everyone knows that no trucks will actually pull the axles inside the inner bolt holes, one glance at any skateboard and you can see that... You're being pedantic here, literally nobody is confused by the original comment.
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14.25 IS my reference.
With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
The goal here is find the WB you LIKE, whatever that combo is.
Maybe it's 14" drilled with Ventures or whatever that Axle to axle ratio is.
Maybe you want it tighter, you can also achieve something similar if you want to pull that 14.25" WB in with ACE or Indy.
Regarding 14.5 or 15" wheelbases, I think once you get that big the amount of truckfuckery leaves much to be desired. I've never had 14.5" WB feel good on anything (usually because the board dims are built around that); however, I did ride a foundation 8.15 with a 14.5" WB with Theeves and it skated the way I liked them to skate so clearly the Axle to Axle ratio was within my preference tolerance :P
This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference, the wheelbase is pushed out with every truck. More so on Thunders and Ventures than on Aces and Indys. Using Indys as a reference Thunders and Ventures push it out while Aces pull it in and Indys (surprisingly! :D) do nothing to it.
Its pretty obvious what he means. Nobody actually thinks that putting trucks on a board is going to make your effective wheelbase shorter than 14 inches.
It is? Please elaborate then cuz I sure as fuck don’t get it.
Thunders and Ventures are considered to be 'longer wheelbase trucks' whilst Indy and Ace are generally considered to be 'shorter wheelbase trucks', hence the terms 'push out' and 'pull in'. Obviously its not technically correct, since Aces don't pull in your wheelbase to be shorter than 14.25 inches, its just pulls your wb in relative to if you had ventures on. We're speaking colloquially here.
I explain trucks affecting wheelbase in this exact way, using the terms 'pull in' and 'push out', to my friends who often have no idea what wheelbase is and it makes perfect sense to them. Everyone knows that no trucks will actually pull the axles inside the inner bolt holes, one glance at any skateboard and you can see that... You're being pedantic here, literally nobody is confused by the original comment.
I agree with everything you said. But what Xen is saying here is just nonsense. Especially the bolded parts:
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Thanks to this and the truck thread I am never going to give a shit about wheelbase. It’s a wormhole not worth going down.
Thing about WB is there are only a handful:
14/14.1 - 14.25 - 14.3x - 14.5 - 14.6x+
There really aren't that many out there that this forum would really care about...I tend too look at the team:
Primitive most on Ventures), Creature, FA, most on Indy, etc.
So it's kind of up to you to know if you like your WB short and tight or long and stable then adjust accordingly based on your deck /brand likes.
Example:
I like Creatures 14.353/14.4 WB and I know if I go to a 14.5WB shit starts getting weird with my flip tricks, so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB - funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and you either push or pull it in to hit that, at least, I do.
That Thunder Cast vs Indy forged fux with that sum as there were boards that felt really great without applying the above rule (a few short WB decks felt good with both Indys and Thunders and I could not figure out why).
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Indy forged vs cast.. Thunder, Venture too
Just trying to think of reasons why forged and cast have different wb.
Have you guys watched truck making vids and seen how pivot cup holes are drilled? They just set the base plate in a jig and use a drill press, depth is set on the press. Now if they use the same jig for forged and cast, and don't put a shim under forged baseplates, then the longitudinal location of the pivot cup would change slightly. Same for when they drill the kingpin hole. But I'm thinking the holes might move closer together instead of both holes moving the same direction. I'll try getting baked and see if that helps me visualize things. Really that's just an excuse..
Well.. get baked didn't help but rewatching a Tracker vid worked.
Drill the kingpin hole from the opposite side as the pivot cup. That'll offset both in the same direction. Iirc the angles are similar. 75 and 70 degrees?
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Ace 55 and 66 the same +2.75” as 44?
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Anyone know what Theeve CSX v3 Trucks do for WB? Heard they are in between Indys and Ace.
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You're being pedantic here
Agreed, I understand exactly what he means: Using trucks that effectively shorten the length between axles, such as ACE, Indy, and Theeve, will make a 14.38 wheelbase feel more like a 14.25 wheelbase, etc. It doesn't literally change the space between bolt holes on a deck, and if you think that he is trying to say that, you are just being willfully ignorant.
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I always find it hard to decide what trucks i wanna use when i have a 14.125 wheelbase, either my Thunder Hollow Lights or my Indy Forged Hollows.
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You're being pedantic here
I don't think that's what he means. But I am confused as to what trucks would make a 14.25" wheelbase feel like a 14.25" wheelbase as it seems that all the main brands and a few others make shorter or longer wheelbases feel like 14.25". Basically I was just wondering what his reference was but I see this is getting nowhere and I'm being called out here for trying to make sense of an unclear statement so whatever. I can discuss this further but I really have no need as it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
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Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
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Of course no truck is going to alter the pre-drilled fucking holes ::) FFS.
What's your point?
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What's your point?
That you are obfuscating what Xen means by wheelbase. Case in point:
With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
Which is true. But you say....
This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference....
Which is why I say...
I understand exactly what he means: Using trucks that effectively shorten the length between axles.....will make a 14.38 wheelbase feel more like a 14.25 wheelbase, etc....
But then you said,
I don't think that's what he means.
Which is why you are being called pedantic, and willfully ignorant.
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That you are obfuscating what Xen means by wheelbase. Case in point:
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With thunders or ventures the axle to axle is pushed out - we all agree on this (those recent measures are fucking that up some), with ACE or Indy it's pulled in.
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This is incorrect. Using the mounting holes as a reference....
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I understand exactly what he means: Using trucks that effectively shorten the length between axles.....will make a 14.38 wheelbase feel more like a 14.25 wheelbase, etc....
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I don't think that's what he means.
Hmm. My reply was unclear. Sorry about that. I meant that I didn't think he meant that any trucks would change the mounting hole distances from what they are. I get that Ventures on a 14" would feel like Indys on 14.25" and Aces on 14.5" so I get what he's saying there.
What I don't understand is how most trucks will make some boards that are not 14.25 feel like just "14.25" no trucks specified. These statements do not make any sense to me:
so on those boards with 14.3x I ride Indy types (pulling the WB in to 14.25.); DLX 14.38WB I've always skated great with Theeves but not Thunders.
On a short WB under 14.25? Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at 14.25WB
With what trucks would 14.25" feel like 14.25" if all major brands (& few others) make other wheelbases feel "like 14.25"?
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im just waiting on the new double checked thread
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Okay let me try to clarify what Xen means once more by editing his comment in question
Example:
I like 14.25" wb (mounting hole measurement):
With Creature's 14.353/14.4 WB, I know Indy types pull the WB in to feel like14.25.
On a shorter WB under 14.25, I know Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at least 14.25WB
It's funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and I either push or pull it in to hit that.
What I don't understand is how most trucks will make some boards that are not 14.25 feel like just "14.25" no trucks specified. These statements do not make any sense to me.
With what trucks would 14.25" feel like 14.25" if all major brands (& few others) make other wheelbases feel "like 14.25"?
He is saying that the feeling of the industry standard is possible with most trucks. That means that the industry standard is always achievable with the right truck. In his example, he specifies which trucks he uses to get boards of different wheelbases to feel like 14.25". He's not saying that every truck makes boards feel like 14.25 full stop, just that it is achievable to get there when you don't have the exact WB you are used to. But as always, there are exceptions because of other factors (tail/nose/shape, etc.) Hope this helps to clarify.
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Okay let me try to clarify what Xen means once more by editing his comment in question
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Example:
I like 14.25" wb (mounting hole measurement):
With Creature's 14.353/14.4 WB, I know Indy types pull the WB in to feel like14.25.
On a shorter WB under 14.25, I know Thunders or Ventures to push it out to....at least 14.25WB
It's funny how the 14.25 is the 'standard' and I either push or pull it in to hit that.
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What I don't understand is how most trucks will make some boards that are not 14.25 feel like just "14.25" no trucks specified. These statements do not make any sense to me.
With what trucks would 14.25" feel like 14.25" if all major brands (& few others) make other wheelbases feel "like 14.25"?
Unfortunately it doesn't because a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures so a "bare 14.25" feel" does not exist in that regard. This is what I have an issue with. If he were to compare other trucks and wheelbases to let's say cast Indys on 14.25" it'd all make perfect sense.
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I did my own measurements with all the trucks i currently have, on a 14.25 WB Real deck
Indy 149 Forged Hollows measure +3.00
Indy 144 Forged Hollows measure +3.00
Thunder 148 Lights measure +3.25
Thunder 149 Hollow Lights measure +3.25
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im just waiting on the new double checked thread
Probably not going to do that, at least for now. The amount of very firm opinions on methods and measuring will likely just make any other thread with a bunch of tape-measured measurements turn into a shit show.
To get any sort of result that’s going to satisfy everyone I’d end up having to get some 24” extended range callipers, dykem blue, and some sort of machined measuring jig that would fit a deck while also being able to adjust to make sure the trucks are centered in the pivot… so basically a massive investment to satisfy somewhere between 1/64 - 1/16 of an inch vs. using a tape measure and eyeballing it.
I’m good with what was out there before, which is still true: Theeve > Ace > Indy > Thunder > Venture, with the caveat that the forged models extend the wb a little further than cast, which goes all the way back to that dude’s blog from years ago.
Truth is, trucks are anchored by rubber at four points per truck (bushings, and wheels), turn with the technology of a pioneer wagon, and are affixed to a flexible, temperature unstable material (wood, despite how hard/dried it may be)… looking for absolutes in measurements is probably a massive exercise in futility.
TLDR: I'll stand by the pics/measurements I've posted if you go back and check them out, but that's about as accurate as I'm willing/able to go.
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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures
Agreed. This isn't relevant to what we are saying about WB distance, I think that would be more about the way geometry affects the feel of wheelbase.
"bare 14.25" feel"
No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.
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im just waiting on the new double checked thread
Probably not going to do that, at least for now. The amount of very firm opinions on methods and measuring will likely just make any other thread with a bunch of tape-measured measurements turn into a shit show.
To get any sort of result that’s going to satisfy everyone I’d end up having to get some 24” extended range callipers, dykem blue, and some sort of machined measuring jig that would fit a deck while also being able to adjust to make sure the trucks are centered in the pivot… so basically a massive investment to satisfy somewhere between 1/64 - 1/16 of an inch vs. using a tape measure and eyeballing it.
I’m good with what was out there before, which is still true: Theeve > Ace > Indy > Thunder > Venture, with the caveat that the forged models extend the wb a little further than cast, which goes all the way back to that dude’s blog from years ago.
Truth is, trucks are anchored by rubber at four points per truck (bushings, and wheels), turn with the technology of a pioneer wagon, and are affixed to a flexible, temperature unstable material (wood, despite how hard/dried it may be)… looking for absolutes in measurements is probably a massive exercise in futility.
TLDR: I'll stand by the pics/measurements I've posted if you go back and check them out, but that's about as accurate as I'm willing/able to go.
understandable, ill just do my own measurements
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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures
No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.
That's what I've been saying. I don't understand what he means as no measurement on the setups he mentions is 14.25" so why does he refer to different trucks pulling in and pushing out to that measurement? What would a 14.25" wb board be pushed out to with forged Ventures? How about with Aces? Would some trucks keep a 14.25" wheelbase at 14.25"? His logic with the numbers is lost on me.
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understandable, ill just do my own measurements
Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.
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understandable, ill just do my own measurements
Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.
I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.
Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.
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understandable, ill just do my own measurements
Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.
I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.
Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.
It happens, nature of forums, I'm not salty about it. I might still get something together, but I'd definitely want to build some sort of jig where the trucks can be positioned/adjusted to get the most accurate measurement without having to resort to expensive machinists tools. I'm sure I can figure out something with scrap wood and levels, it'll just have to wait until spring in my neck of the woods.
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understandable, ill just do my own measurements
Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.
I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.
Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.
It happens, nature of forums, I'm not salty about it. I might still get something together, but I'd definitely want to build some sort of jig where the trucks can be positioned/adjusted to get the most accurate measurement without having to resort to expensive machinists tools. I'm sure I can figure out something with scrap wood and levels, it'll just have to wait until spring in my neck of the woods.
Sorry if my attitude contributed to your burn out. I'm working on it..
I agree that there's some variables that make ultra precision difficult. More the bushings than the deck tho. But using jig would def make taking measurements easier, I hadn't thought of that. Could use a straight work bench, wood board, steel or aluminum strip/plate. Got a metal place by you that sells new and "used" metal?
Layout would be easy, center punch, a regular square and/or scribing compass would help. A good straight edge..
Sharpie is the poor man's dykem. And why would you wanna use it other than layout? Gonna plum bob and mark the plate?
Could drill holes the same size as the base plates and use larger diameter bolts. I'd want a smooth shank that fits snug for the least amount of slop. Could even hammer in short dowels if you can find the right size.
The slop I'd be worried about would be in the bushings.
Pivot cup wear could let the axles move down towards the deck and out towards the nose/tail, increasing wb slightly.
I've measured some new aftermarket bushings and most aren't the same height all the way around, varying by ~1mm. Just setting the bushings in differently should change the geo and axle position slightly. slightly..
Could do metal pucks? Stacked washers? Do we need to worry about the concentricity with the kingpin?
Maybe try to measure multiple new trucks of the same brand/size, then compare those results. Wouldn't have to do it for every brand.
If you've got a friendly local shop I think it'd be best if one person did as many of the measurements as possible.
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understandable, ill just do my own measurements
Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.
I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.
Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.
It happens, nature of forums, I'm not salty about it. I might still get something together, but I'd definitely want to build some sort of jig where the trucks can be positioned/adjusted to get the most accurate measurement without having to resort to expensive machinists tools. I'm sure I can figure out something with scrap wood and levels, it'll just have to wait until spring in my neck of the woods.
I agree that there's some variables that make ultra precision difficult. More the bushings than the deck tho. But using jig would def make taking measurements easier, I hadn't thought of that. Could use a straight work bench, wood board, steel or aluminum strip/plate. Got a metal place by you that sells new and "used" metal?
Layout would be easy, center punch, a regular square and/or scribing compass would help. A good straight edge..
Sharpie is the poor man's dykem. And why would you wanna use it other than layout? Gonna plum bob and mark the plate?
Could drill holes the same size as the base plates and use larger diameter bolts. I'd want a smooth shank that fits snug for the least amount of slop. Could even hammer in short dowels if you can find the right size.
The slop I'd be worried about would be in the bushings.
Pivot cup wear could let the axles move down towards the deck and out towards the nose/tail, increasing wb slightly.
I've measured some new aftermarket bushings and most aren't the same height all the way around, varying by ~1mm. Just setting the bushings in differently should change the geo and axle position slightly. slightly..
Could do metal pucks? Stacked washers? Do we need to worry about the concentricity with the kingpin?
Maybe try to measure multiple new trucks of the same brand/size, then compare those results. Wouldn't have to do it for every brand.
If you've got a friendly local shop I think it'd be best if one person did as many of the measurements as possible.
would be nice if the manufacturers would have this info readily available to the public. they did the R&D so its not like they dont have the numbers. sure, not every customer gives a shit about the dimensions but they know we exist, and it takes nothing to put it on their website or packaging.
i know they make money off of our ignorance but i really wish there was a standard for these things.
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understandable, ill just do my own measurements
Godspeed. Do post your findings though, despite how're they taken it's good to have lots of different sources of info out there. Eventually if enough people do that we'll have some sort of average/consensus to go by.
I'm sorry the original intent of this thread got Shanghai-ed into such a direct. Was really look forward to more pics of truck, especially with the forged vs cast revelation.
Wish the mods would sticky some of the threads with a very clean and maintained page 1 stating all the specs with pics.
It happens, nature of forums, I'm not salty about it. I might still get something together, but I'd definitely want to build some sort of jig where the trucks can be positioned/adjusted to get the most accurate measurement without having to resort to expensive machinists tools. I'm sure I can figure out something with scrap wood and levels, it'll just have to wait until spring in my neck of the woods.
I agree that there's some variables that make ultra precision difficult. More the bushings than the deck tho. But using jig would def make taking measurements easier, I hadn't thought of that. Could use a straight work bench, wood board, steel or aluminum strip/plate. Got a metal place by you that sells new and "used" metal?
Layout would be easy, center punch, a regular square and/or scribing compass would help. A good straight edge..
Sharpie is the poor man's dykem. And why would you wanna use it other than layout? Gonna plum bob and mark the plate?
Could drill holes the same size as the base plates and use larger diameter bolts. I'd want a smooth shank that fits snug for the least amount of slop. Could even hammer in short dowels if you can find the right size.
The slop I'd be worried about would be in the bushings.
Pivot cup wear could let the axles move down towards the deck and out towards the nose/tail, increasing wb slightly.
I've measured some new aftermarket bushings and most aren't the same height all the way around, varying by ~1mm. Just setting the bushings in differently should change the geo and axle position slightly. slightly..
Could do metal pucks? Stacked washers? Do we need to worry about the concentricity with the kingpin?
Maybe try to measure multiple new trucks of the same brand/size, then compare those results. Wouldn't have to do it for every brand.
If you've got a friendly local shop I think it'd be best if one person did as many of the measurements as possible.
would be nice if the manufacturers would have this info readily available to the public. they did the R&D so its not like they dont have the numbers. sure, not every customer gives a shit about the dimensions but they know we exist, and it takes nothing to put it on their website or packaging.
i know they make money off of our ignorance but i really wish there was a standard for these things.
I think we are a tiny part of the entire skate community / industry who would scrutinize ever minute details of their setups. I assume most people at the skateshop probably only care about deck width, graphic and how good the trucks feel without digging too much into the why. We are a tiny segment of their target market for skate companies: ads, video parts and graphics on deck / wheels / trucks are probably the safe way to reach the larger skate community.
Every time I nerd out at the skate park about WB or truck height I get looks like I'm crazy and overthinking my gear and should just skate instead of obsessing over a couple of millimeters. I think brands / website may deliberately omit certain product information because giving customers too much information confuses them and delays their buying decision.
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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter
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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter
I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.
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Drill press and machinists vice would let you skip layout stuff
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straightedge_and_compass_construction#Much_used_straightedge_and_compass_constructions
Might help with layout
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisection How-to make right angle with compass
Way more complicated than you need for a jig but a neat tool.
Jig could be 3" x 6" x 1/2" metal strip with 8 holes drilled in.
Iirc, bolt pattern is 2.125" x 1.625"
http://www.peterverdone.com/that-tool-youve-wanted-for-about-35-years/
(http://www.peterverdone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/DSC_0386.jpg)
(http://www.peterverdone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Skate-drilling-fixture.png)
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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter
I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.
Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.
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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter
I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.
Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.
I think ppl have been saying forged lengthens the wb by about half that much
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged
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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter
I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.
Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged
Now you have me second guessing myself. Ive already put the cast plates on my board and not sure I can be bothered taking them off again. I do remember noticing on that chart that was posted around for a bit that the 159 extended wheelbase. I can never find it when I try looking though.
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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter
I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.
Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged
Now you have me second guessing myself. Ive already put the cast plates on my board and not sure I can be bothered taking them off again. I do remember noticing on that chart that was posted around for a bit that the 159 extended wheelbase. I can never find it when I try looking though.
Some info is on page 1 of this thread. Palelight has a post too but I don't have the link.
Chart is from skateboarding is my lifetime sport guy's blog
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/htmlview
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Forged Indy and Venture lengthen the wheelbase. About an 1/8" for Indy and a 1/4" for Venture. I never measured Thunder forged as I've never owned any, so I can't help there.
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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures
No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.
So you are confused by something that was not mentioned?
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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures
No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.
This is getting absolutely ridiculous. I don’t understand what he is saying. It does not make sense to me. I do not understand the logic. I have been repeatedly asking for a an explanation but I get snide remarks from you instead. This isn’t helpful to the discussion at all.
I understand that compared to Indy and Ace, Thunder and Venture push out the wheelbase and that compared to Thunder and Venture, Ace and Indy pull in the wheelbase. Simple. But how any of them pull it in or push it out to “to/at 14.25” compared to nothing I don’t understand and I feel it hasn’t been explained at all.
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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter
I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.
Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged
Now you have me second guessing myself. Ive already put the cast plates on my board and not sure I can be bothered taking them off again. I do remember noticing on that chart that was posted around for a bit that the 159 extended wheelbase. I can never find it when I try looking though.
Chart is from skateboarding is my lifetime sport guy's blog
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/htmlview
Apparently my memory is crapping out..
I rechecked my Stage 10-11 cast/forged plates, shape and holes match up almost perfect.
My Stage 8 is a lil off cuz the holes are offset to the side by ~1/16".
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Is there a change in wheelbase between Indy 159 and 149? The 59 have a cast plate and the 49 forged. Is the difference im seeing because of the plate, or because of the size? When butted against a wall, the 149 are nearly a whole axle width shorter
I'm guessing its because of the plates. You can put the 159s on the forged plates and the 149s on the cast plates to confirm/debunk this.
Ok I stopped being lazy. It's the plates. Forged shortens wb by about an axle width.
Are your bolt holes lining up? The base plate size/shape is a lil different between cast and forged
Now you have me second guessing myself. Ive already put the cast plates on my board and not sure I can be bothered taking them off again. I do remember noticing on that chart that was posted around for a bit that the 159 extended wheelbase. I can never find it when I try looking though.
Chart is from skateboarding is my lifetime sport guy's blog
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/htmlview
I rechecked my Stage 10-11 cast/forged plates, shape and holes match up almost perfect.
My Stage 8 is a lil off cuz the holes are offset to the side by ~1/16".
I actually ended up checking it as well and my holes line up also. Contrary to what was said earlier, I’m still finding forged plates to shorten wheelbase. I’m not sure why I’m seeing it differently to others but that’s my experience.
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I actually ended up checking it as well and my holes line up also. Contrary to what was said earlier, I’m still finding forged plates to shorten wheelbase. I’m not sure why I’m seeing it differently to others but that’s my experience.
We're talking about Indy's right? Could you post some pics of the measurements? Very intrigued.
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I understand the kingpin angle is going to be a challenge but manny tricks. Ibeen on ace for like 18 months Indy 11 from 2016 and thunder from 1992.
I want to know will i have issues with the Manny point or will it onltake a few days to normalize on ventures highs.
Im going to cut the top front bushing to make nose manny easier
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a 14.25" board will feel very different with Aces than it does with forged Ventures
No one mentioned this - which might be why you don't understand what you think he means.
This is getting absolutely ridiculous. I don’t understand what he is saying. It does not make sense to me. I do not understand the logic. I have been repeatedly asking for a an explanation but I get snide remarks from you instead. This isn’t helpful to the discussion at all.
I understand that compared to Indy and Ace, Thunder and Venture push out the wheelbase and that compared to Thunder and Venture, Ace and Indy pull in the wheelbase. Simple. But how any of them pull it in or push it out to “to/at 14.25” compared to nothing I don’t understand and I feel it hasn’t been explained at all.
I have just been trying to help, I just legitimately don't understand what you don't get.
Some of the things you typed out "bare 14.25" feel" weren't mentioned. So I don't know what you are referencing.
Point is this: say I like a 14.25" deck wb boards, just an opinion - now if a Thunder adds 1/4" more to the wheelbase than an Indy does, I would pair the thunders with a deck with a 14" wheelbase instead to get a similar feel to what I was used to. This is all he was saying.
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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...
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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...
Defintely. Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb. The only similarity would be the true wb measurement but there is much more to overall feel as you said. I think it would fuck with me less to just get used to my preferred truck on a different wb rather than switch trucks and go insane trying to make a setup feel like something it's not.
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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...
Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb
That would be a completely different study to figure out the effect truck geometry has on wheelbase "feel" and also completely subjective. For the purposes of measuring wheelbase, let's just assume the trucks don't turn. Otherwise there are too many variables, "yeah but tensor's are more stable, theeve's have an oval yoke, etc." This way we can have objective information, "+/- x.185" and not subjective information like "14.25" feel.
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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...
Defintely. Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb. The only similarity would be the true wb measurement but there is much more to overall feel as you said. I think it would fuck with me less to just get used to my preferred truck on a different wb rather than switch trucks and go insane trying to make a setup feel like something it's not.
Sage words here. People should listen to this. There's been a few pages here, and in the other trucks threads, about subbing out different trucks to get the same "feel" on different setups, it's straight up not going to work. At least beyond attaining a similar-ish true wheelbase measurement. If you break it into three things 1) truck's effect on wb, 2) how they turn/feel 3) how they pop, subbing one truck in place of another for a desired wheelbase is only going to satisfy one of those things, they're still going to feel absolutely fucked in how they pop and how they turn if you're used to a certain brand. Does not seem worth it.
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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...
If your skateboard is a lever, the center of your axle is the fulcrum point. The idea is that if you control for the other variables (truck height, wheel size, kick length, kick angle) you will get essentially the same pop feel from cast ventures on a 14" wb as you will from cast indys on a 14.25" wb.
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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...
Theoretically that's sound, but I'd have to argue the idea of being able to control those variables (on the deck) down to the 1/16 of an inch and half a degree of angle isn't very realistic for most people. You'd have to be working pretty closely to whoever is pressing the deck, and even then the results aren't guaranteed.
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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...
Defintely. Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb. The only similarity would be the true wb measurement but there is much more to overall feel as you said. I think it would fuck with me less to just get used to my preferred truck on a different wb rather than switch trucks and go insane trying to make a setup feel like something it's not.
Sage words here. People should listen to this. There's been a few pages here, and in the other trucks threads, about subbing out different trucks to get the same "feel" on different setups, it's straight up not going to work. At least beyond attaining a similar-ish true wheelbase measurement. If you break it into three things 1) truck's effect on wb, 2) how they turn/feel 3) how they pop, subbing one truck in place of another for a desired wheelbase is only going to satisfy one of those things, they're still going to feel absolutely fucked in how they pop and how they turn if you're used to a certain brand. Does not seem worth it.
Same, I'm telling myself to stick to 1 brand of trucks (Thunders ATM) and ride the hell out of them while keeping my deck size similar with as few variations as possible. I don't skate tranny so turn isn't as critical for me, but WB and pop feel are correlated, WB will affect the triangle of pop. There are way too many variables once I start mixing in deck sizes, wheels and risers which causes me to spend more time setting up boards than riding them.
But the moment I fuck up 1 setup and am not feeling it, I'm swapping it out in a heartbeat. Time is too scarce to waste on non-viable setups.
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I measured my 149Forged Hollow Titanium and they stretch your wheelbase about 3 inches. A few Months ago, i compared them with my sold 149 Standards on a same wheelbase deck, they lined up perfectly. Thunder Team +3,27.
My english is not that good, sorry.
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The big question though is, does that really equate? Since the trucks geometry and turning are so different. I'm not so sure getting a 1/4" smaller wb deck for Thunders has the impact we think it might...
Defintely. Thunders on a 14" wb deck are not going to feel anything like Indy on a 14.25" wb. The only similarity would be the true wb measurement but there is much more to overall feel as you said. I think it would fuck with me less to just get used to my preferred truck on a different wb rather than switch trucks and go insane trying to make a setup feel like something it's not.
Sage words here. People should listen to this. There's been a few pages here, and in the other trucks threads, about subbing out different trucks to get the same "feel" on different setups, it's straight up not going to work. At least beyond attaining a similar-ish true wheelbase measurement. If you break it into three things 1) truck's effect on wb, 2) how they turn/feel 3) how they pop, subbing one truck in place of another for a desired wheelbase is only going to satisfy one of those things, they're still going to feel absolutely fucked in how they pop and how they turn if you're used to a certain brand. Does not seem worth it.
Same, I'm telling myself to stick to 1 brand of trucks (Thunders ATM) and ride the hell out of them while keeping my deck size similar with as few variations as possible. I don't skate tranny so turn isn't as critical for me, but WB and pop feel are correlated, WB will affect the triangle of pop. There are way too many variables once I start mixing in deck sizes, wheels and risers which causes me to spend more time setting up boards than riding them.
But the moment I fuck up 1 setup and am not feeling it, I'm swapping it out in a heartbeat. Time is too scarce to waste on non-viable setups.
thats a great idea actually. thunders arent perfect, but the definitely have worked for me and check almost all my boxes for requirements. pop feels natural, lightness makes things easier, and i fuck with the stability until its time for a twitchy turn. pros ride the same shit over and over for the same reason. looks like i should just stick with em and get better.
might just use the venture 6.1s for a slappy setup or until they die, just know that i cant recoup enough where its worth me selling
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hello fellow truck lovers
did some measurements of older stage indys on a true 14.25 wheelbase deck
Indy 149 stage V add 2.5", and come in at 16.75" on center axle to axle
Indy 149 stage VII add 3", and come in at 17.25" on center axle to axle
will take + post pics when time allows
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Anyone know how Theeve CSX trucks affect WB? Going for a shorter WB on a slightly shorter board (just under 32") with a long WB (14.38"). I have a pair of Indy 139 Hollow Lights but I'm not really a fan of how they grind.
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Anyone know how Theeve CSX trucks affect WB? Going for a shorter WB on a slightly shorter board (just under 32") with a long WB (14.38"). I have a pair of Indy 139 Hollow Lights but I'm not really a fan of how they grind.
They are tighter than Indy, around or tighter than ACE' WB.
I always run them on 8.3 WB.
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Anyone know how Theeve CSX trucks affect WB? Going for a shorter WB on a slightly shorter board (just under 32") with a long WB (14.38"). I have a pair of Indy 139 Hollow Lights but I'm not really a fan of how they grind.
Theeves pull your wb in about 1/4" compared to forged indys.
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I loved Ace 44 on a Polar with a 14.5in WB, however, I did not love the heft. I have never been able to re-produce the feel on a smaller deck, mostly because I'd have to not use Ace to get the same WB. I like the Ace turn much more on long WB than short (have used them on as short as 14in) just like I prefer the Thunder turn on 14.25.
Anyways, I think what worked most was just the deck kick steepness/shape AND the relative WB. While Polar is BBS/Generator not all boards from them are the same. What brands have similar fingers of flat/steepness and kick shape?
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I loved Ace 44 on a Polar with a 14.5in WB, however, I did not love the heft. I have never been able to re-produce the feel on a smaller deck, mostly because I'd have to not use Ace to get the same WB. I like the Ace turn much more on long WB than short (have used them on as short as 14in) just like I prefer the Thunder turn on 14.25.
Anyways, I think what worked most was just the deck kick steepness/shape AND the relative WB. While Polar is BBS/Generator not all boards from them are the same. What brands have similar fingers of flat/steepness and kick shape?
Primitive +-
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I loved Ace 44 on a Polar with a 14.5in WB, however, I did not love the heft. I have never been able to re-produce the feel on a smaller deck, mostly because I'd have to not use Ace to get the same WB. I like the Ace turn much more on long WB than short (have used them on as short as 14in) just like I prefer the Thunder turn on 14.25.
Anyways, I think what worked most was just the deck kick steepness/shape AND the relative WB. While Polar is BBS/Generator not all boards from them are the same. What brands have similar fingers of flat/steepness and kick shape?
There's also different molds. I'm pretty sure Primitive uses the mellow concave and it has mellower, symmetrical kicks. Think Baker mellow concave is the same. Baker steep concave seems like the mold Real uses but some ppl say DLX uses mellow concave too.
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Hey truck nerds, need your help with identifying the baseplate on this truck:
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/mgfmp.dmumc/v/vspfiles/photos/S1-33132244144-2.jpg)
I check the weight and height of the trucks off Tactics and they line up with the specs of the Indy 144 Standard:
https://www.tactics.com/independent/144-stage-11-silver-skateboard-trucks/silver-144
385g and 55mm in height.
The issue is with the baseplate, which I am not sure if this is a Forged or Cast baseplate. Palelight mentioned that cast baseplate adds 3", while the forged one adds 3.125". By the looks of the specs it should be a cast plate, but I'm getting the WB adjustment of a forged.
I bought these trucks to shrink my WB down for my current setup (Thunder 148), kinda bummed since the change in WB only went from 17.59 to 17.52, when I was looking more for a 17.3 to 17.4.
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Hey truck nerds, need your help with identifying the baseplate on this truck:
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/mgfmp.dmumc/v/vspfiles/photos/S1-33132244144-2.jpg)
I check the weight and height of the trucks off Tactics and they line up with the specs of the Indy 144 Standard:
https://www.tactics.com/independent/144-stage-11-silver-skateboard-trucks/silver-144
385g and 55mm in height.
The issue is with the baseplate, which I am not sure if this is a Forged or Cast baseplate. Palelight mentioned that cast baseplate adds 3", while the forged one adds 3.125". By the looks of the specs it should be a cast plate, but I'm getting the WB adjustment of a forged.
I bought these trucks to shrink my WB down for my current setup (Thunder 148), kinda bummed since the change in WB only went from 17.59 to 17.52, when I was looking more for a 17.3 to 17.4.
Cast. Mounting pad part is thicker and I can see texture by the iron cross logo.
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Thanks Satan, would the regular 144 Standard Raw shorten the WB? I was hoping for a 3" addition to WB, not a 3.125".
(https://www.skatewarehouse.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/B/F/BFB7F880395867B8B7DDBD4AEFDBCFAC.jpg)
My other option would be to go with a 149 Standard, since that one is confirmed to just add 3"
I'll give them a try tomorrow to see how the setup feels, just popping around, no grinds, to see if the difference is noticeable.
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Cast should be consistent at 3" but I've measured nothing..
Shortened compared to forged? Yes
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It's probably 3", didn't get a good measurement of the dims prior. Decided to be less of a baby and just skate.
Edit: it's 3", wish they were a little lower but the baseplate feels great for slides versus Thunders
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Hey truck nerds, need your help with identifying the baseplate on this truck:
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/mgfmp.dmumc/v/vspfiles/photos/S1-33132244144-2.jpg)
I check the weight and height of the trucks off Tactics and they line up with the specs of the Indy 144 Standard:
https://www.tactics.com/independent/144-stage-11-silver-skateboard-trucks/silver-144
385g and 55mm in height.
The issue is with the baseplate, which I am not sure if this is a Forged or Cast baseplate. Palelight mentioned that cast baseplate adds 3", while the forged one adds 3.125". By the looks of the specs it should be a cast plate, but I'm getting the WB adjustment of a forged.
I bought these trucks to shrink my WB down for my current setup (Thunder 148), kinda bummed since the change in WB only went from 17.59 to 17.52, when I was looking more for a 17.3 to 17.4.
Can confirm that, I had those.
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Any trucks that add 3" with a light / hollow variant? Indy 144/149 fulfill the WB portion but I'm not a fan of how they pop.
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Anyone know anything about Destructo wheelbase?
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Anyone know anything about Destructo wheelbase?
No ones got firm numbers yet, but I'm getting a pair of D2 mid Lite on Tuesday, looking forward to shed light on it soon.
From what I've gathered:
D1 - Indy like
D2 - Thunder like
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0037/2922/files/height_chart_web_480x480.jpg?v=1571436365)
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Anyone know anything about Destructo wheelbase?
No ones got firm numbers yet, but I'm getting a pair of D2 mid Lite on Tuesday, looking forward to shed light on it soon.
From what I've gathered:
D1 - Indy like
D2 - Thunder like
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0037/2922/files/height_chart_web_480x480.jpg?v=1571436365)
Gotcha, thanks!
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Anyone know anything about Destructo wheelbase?
No ones got firm numbers yet, but I'm getting a pair of D2 mid Lite on Tuesday, looking forward to shed light on it soon.
From what I've gathered:
D1 - Indy like
D2 - Thunder like
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0037/2922/files/height_chart_web_480x480.jpg?v=1571436365)
Gotcha, thanks!
Hopefully it hold up to Palelight's strict measurement methodology. Either way I'm stoked to give them a ride with a smaller setup.
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Hey OP, can we add the Destructo D2 Lite Mid to the mix? It added 3.125" to a 14" deck.
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does thunder ti push wb out further than regular forged? im thinking no, but what do i know
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does thunder ti push wb out further than regular forged? im thinking no, but what do i know
Measured part of my collection, here is what I got:
Theeve CSX V3 5.25 - 2.83"
Destructo D2 Lite Mid 5.25 - 3.125"
Thunder 148 Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder 147 Lights (Hollow Kingpin) - 3.26"
Venture 5.2 Low Hollow Light - 3.42"
The Thunder 148 Titanium were the biggest surprise, I thought we would be looking closer to 3.25"-ish
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does thunder ti push wb out further than regular forged? im thinking no, but what do i know
Measured part of my collection, here is what I got:
Theeve CSX V3 5.25 - 2.83"
Destructo D2 Lite Mid 5.25 - 3.125"
Thunder 148 Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder 147 Lights (Hollow Kingpin) - 3.26"
Venture 5.2 Low Hollow Light - 3.42"
The Thunder 148 Titanium were the biggest surprise, I thought we would be looking closer to 3.25"-ish
thats interesting and highly confusing at the same time. so many questions :o
just gonna chalk it up as a 0.1 difference before my mind starts racing
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Measure my 8" Tensor ATGs mags
+3.125"
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149 Indy Stage V adds 2.5" to WB
makes sense w/ how Ace pulls in WB so much, since they used the early indy stages for their geometry inspiration.
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Mini logo 8.38 +2.875, Bones hard bushings with indy replacement pivot cups, measured with the kingpin nut flush.
Krux k4 5.0 (8.5) +2.875, stock & cast baseplate
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Indy Stage 6: +2.625
Indy Stage 7: +2.875
Mini Logo: +2.875
Royal Inverted Kinpin: +2.94
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
are the thunder titaniums 52mm tall or shorter than hollow lights?
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
Pretty sure it’s the same as the other forged ventures (3.5 or 3.4), just did a rough estimate with my handy ruler and was getting around 17.5 center to center on a 14 wb
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
Tactics doesn't a listing for reference by last I captured on my pair of 148 was:
Titanium - 52.3mm
Hollow Lights - 52.3mm (off Tactics)
Strangely the 149 sits slightly lower:
Titanium - 49.78mm (Tactics)
Hollow Lights- 52.3mm (Tactics)
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
Thanks buddy, they are super tempting buy that kind of WB extension is a little too much for me, it would really limit my board selections to those a 14" WB, seems like my ideal axle to axle WB is around 17.5" give or take.
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Another reason I prefer the standard Thunders.
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
Tactics doesn't a listing for reference by last I captured on my pair of 148 was:
Titanium - 52.3mm
Hollow Lights - 52.3mm (off Tactics)
Strangely the 149 sits slightly lower:
Titanium - 49.78mm (Tactics)
Hollow Lights- 52.3mm (Tactics)
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
Thanks buddy, they are super tempting buy that kind of WB extension is a little too much for me, it would really limit my board selections to those a 14" WB, seems like my ideal axle to axle WB is around 17.5" give or take.
im pretty sure the 148s are supposed to be lower than the 149s, ben degros did a review on the 148s saying they are lower
edit: 147s and he rounded up to 51mm. really doubting 149s are sub 50
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
Tactics doesn't a listing for reference by last I captured on my pair of 148 was:
Titanium - 52.3mm
Hollow Lights - 52.3mm (off Tactics)
Strangely the 149 sits slightly lower:
Titanium - 49.78mm (Tactics)
Hollow Lights- 52.3mm (Tactics)
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Anyone know how much Venture 5.6 Titanium shift WB?
Always thought that forged baseplates extended WB universally. Did some measuring on my Thunder and:
Thunder Team Standard - 3.125"
Thunder Titanium - 3.15"
Thunder Hollow Light - 3.25"
Thanks buddy, they are super tempting buy that kind of WB extension is a little too much for me, it would really limit my board selections to those a 14" WB, seems like my ideal axle to axle WB is around 17.5" give or take.
edit: 147s and he rounded up to 51mm. really doubting 149s are sub 50
Well truck height is easier to overcome, slap some risers on there and you're good.
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For my fellow petite truck riders
Independent 139 Titanium: +3.00 in
Thunder 147 Hollow Light: +3.3125 in
Measured both sides and got the average
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Strangely the 149 sits slightly lower:
Titanium - 49.78mm (Tactics)
Hollow Lights- 52.3mm (Tactics)
I think that's using the old 149 measurement for the Titaniums. I've got a set of 149 night titaniums and they're about the same as the hollows. If anything mine are like a half mil higher than the hollows, but that might just be my floorboards not being perfectly level or something.
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My previous setup of ace 55s with Jason Adams black label 8.75, 14.5 wb has the same axle wb as my current setup of venture 6.1 on primitive spencer Hamilton 8.6, 14wb (About 17 7/16)
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This is possibly the nerdest thread I've read on this page, and I love every word of it.
I was bored at the shop a few years back, and we started comparing baseplates. I took a sheet of paper and drew long straight line on it. We then placed a given base plate on the paper, so that line ran directly through the center of the two outer most holes. We then traced the base plate on the paper. This gave us a direct visual representation of how/where a give base plates "sits" on your board in relation to other ones. I'll see if I can dig up the tracings. No real surprises, Venture stuck "out" the most, and Thunders the least (stuck out the most on the opposite end).
But back to wheelbase. Not sure what methods people use to measure comparative truck wheelbase, but I basically use the same one as above. It works quite well. Draw a line on sheet of paper. Place truck so that the line goes through inner most holes. Look over truck from above, and mark spot on paper that is directly below center of axle. Measure the distance between that mark, and the hole line, and you've got your comparative numbers (I actually do both sides, and then average).
I noticed that Cast V-5.6s were NOT included in this thread (or I missed it). I have a set. I'll add those numbers later on today.
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This is possibly the nerdest thread I've read on this page, and I love every word of it.
I was bored at the shop a few years back, and we started comparing baseplates. I took a sheet of paper and drew long straight line on it. We then placed a given base plate on the paper, so that line ran directly through the center of the two outer most holes. We then traced the base plate on the paper. This gave us a direct visual representation of how/where a give base plates "sits" on your board in relation to other ones. I'll see if I can dig up the tracings. No real surprises, Venture stuck "out" the most, and Thunders the least (stuck out the most on the opposite end).
But back to wheelbase. Not sure what methods people use to measure comparative truck wheelbase, but I basically use the same one as above. It works quite well. Draw a line on sheet of paper. Place truck so that the line goes through inner most holes. Look over truck from above, and mark spot on paper that is directly below center of axle. Measure the distance between that mark, and the hole line, and you've got your comparative numbers (I actually do both sides, and then average).
I noticed that Cast V-5.6s were NOT included in this thread (or I missed it). I have a set. I'll add those numbers later on today.
Ok about baseplate sitting on your board, but what about where the axle sits in relation to the baseplate? That changes for each truck. On your next paragraph you mention "eyeballing" where the axle sits from above? Doesn't seem accurate
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Ok about baseplate sitting on your board, but what about where the axle sits in relation to the baseplate? That changes for each truck.
Correct. The first paragraph about baseplates is in reference to baseplates ONLY. No account for axle, at all, in anyway.
On your next paragraph you mention "eyeballing" where the axle sits from above? Doesn't seem accurate.
Also correct. Much of this thread has been dedicated to crude design of trucks, "eyeballing it" and the lack of truly accurate means to measure these things. The method I described above is no different. I supposed you could drop a weighted string down to get a plumbline from center axle, but I do not think that would reveal substantial differences from "eyeballing it." I could be wrong, however.
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In regards wheelbase, axle to axle seems like it would be the important measurement.
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In regards wheelbase, axle to axle seems like it would be the important measurement.
I would suggest you reread this entire thread. The point I was making was about the +2.75, +3, +3.2 type measurements.
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In regards wheelbase, axle to axle seems like it would be the important measurement.
Indeed. Having probably added a good amount of unnecessary madness to this thread and others like it (apologies), I'll say the easiest method for getting a good WB measurement, all you need is a tape measure (and maybe a calculator).
You're going to get two different measurements, unavoidable. Trucks are never truly centered at the yoke. Measure one side axle center to axle center (ex. 17.375") measure the other side (ex. 17.125"). Subtract the smaller number from the bigger = .125." Add it to the smaller number, .125" + 17.125" = 17.25," there's your wheelbase.
Trucks shift in so many ways - the bushings compressing and corroding, holes ovalizing, kingpins loosening, pivot cups blowing out - all of which would shift your wheelbase, getting pretty close measurements will probably have to suffice.
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In regards wheelbase, axle to axle seems like it would be the important measurement.
Indeed. Having probably added a good amount of unnecessary madness to this thread and others like it (apologies), I'll say the easiest method for getting a good WB measurement, all you need is a tape measure (and maybe a calculator).
You're going to get two different measurements, unavoidable. Trucks are never truly centered at the yoke. Measure one side axle center to axle center (ex. 17.375") measure the other side (ex. 17.125"). Subtract the smaller number from the bigger = .125." Add it to the smaller number, .125" + 17.125" = 17.25," there's your wheelbase.
Trucks shift in so many ways - the bushings compressing and corroding, holes ovalizing, kingpins loosening, pivot cups blowing out - all of which would shift your wheelbase, getting pretty close measurements will probably have to suffice.
Great even more factors for my truck madness.
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In regards wheelbase, axle to axle seems like it would be the important measurement.
Indeed. Having probably added a good amount of unnecessary madness to this thread and others like it (apologies), I'll say the easiest method for getting a good WB measurement, all you need is a tape measure (and maybe a calculator).
You're going to get two different measurements, unavoidable. Trucks are never truly centered at the yoke. Measure one side axle center to axle center (ex. 17.375") measure the other side (ex. 17.125"). Subtract the smaller number from the bigger = .125." Add it to the smaller number, .125" + 17.125" = 17.25," there's your wheelbase.
Trucks shift in so many ways - the bushings compressing and corroding, holes ovalizing, kingpins loosening, pivot cups blowing out - all of which would shift your wheelbase, getting pretty close measurements will probably have to suffice.
You actually really tried to provide relevant information before people came in with nonsense.
Sedition- I’ve read the thread. If you are speaking about wheelbase, then axle to axle is the wheelbase, baseplate size and shape don’t usurp that. I like hearing people’s ideas, and thought process, but there is a lot of stuff like ‘such and such brings the wheelbase in’, that get pretty murky.
Baseplates, wheel sizes, tail/nose lengths and angles, most definitely play into the leverage points, and that may be what many of us are also talking about when we talk about the wheelbase.
I dunno what I’m talking about.
As I see it there is hole to hole ‘wheelbase’ and axle to axle, hence ‘+3.25” added’
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In regards wheelbase, axle to axle seems like it would be the important measurement.
Indeed. Having probably added a good amount of unnecessary madness to this thread and others like it (apologies), I'll say the easiest method for getting a good WB measurement, all you need is a tape measure (and maybe a calculator).
You're going to get two different measurements, unavoidable. Trucks are never truly centered at the yoke. Measure one side axle center to axle center (ex. 17.375") measure the other side (ex. 17.125"). Subtract the smaller number from the bigger = .125." Add it to the smaller number, .125" + 17.125" = 17.25," there's your wheelbase.
Trucks shift in so many ways - the bushings compressing and corroding, holes ovalizing, kingpins loosening, pivot cups blowing out - all of which would shift your wheelbase, getting pretty close measurements will probably have to suffice.
I shoulda clarified, those shifts would be minuscule, but enough to offset getting hyper anal about WB measurement.
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the claim that polar now measures wb from the edge of hole to edge of hole instead of center to center kind of tripping me out.
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Sedition- I’ve read the thread. If you are speaking about wheelbase, then axle to axle is the wheelbase, baseplate size and shape don’t usurp that. I like hearing people’s ideas, and thought process, but there is a lot of stuff like ‘such and such brings the wheelbase in’, that get pretty murky.
Baseplates, wheel sizes, tail/nose lengths and angles, most definitely play into the leverage points, and that may be what many of us are also talking about when we talk about the wheelbase.
I dunno what I’m talking about.
As I see it there is hole to hole ‘wheelbase’ and axle to axle, hence ‘+3.25” added’
I feel that most people who read my post will realize that the comments about baseplate shape/etc., and how we used a baseline line to measure them, was a segway into the second part about how I have measured axle placement on trucks, and is not, by any means, saying the two are correlated. If they were confused by that, I expressly stated in a subsequent post. In short, I think most people will fully grasp what I was saying. If you do not, I am OK with that (no pun intended). "...such and such brings the wheelbase in" was perfectly clear to me when I read in previous posts, too.
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On the topic of measuring trucks, how is height measured? Bottom of baseplate to the highest point on the hanger? Or to mid axle?
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On the topic of measuring trucks, how is height measured? Bottom of baseplate to the highest point on the hanger? Or to mid axle?
Bottom of the baseplate to mid-axle. Not the easiest thing to measure at home though, especially when some brands get down to .5mm.
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For my fellow petite truck riders
Independent 139 Titanium: +3.00 in
Thunder 147 Hollow Light: +3.3125 in
Measured both sides and got the average
Thunder 147 Raw: +3.25
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I'm having a wheelbase nerd out kind of day, so here's my contribution-
Thunder Lights II 148 - +3.125
Got some ventures coming in the week so I will add those on as well...interested to see if they push out the WB more than these thunders.
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In regards wheelbase, axle to axle seems like it would be the important measurement.
Indeed. Having probably added a good amount of unnecessary madness to this thread and others like it (apologies), I'll say the easiest method for getting a good WB measurement, all you need is a tape measure (and maybe a calculator).
You're going to get two different measurements, unavoidable. Trucks are never truly centered at the yoke. Measure one side axle center to axle center (ex. 17.375") measure the other side (ex. 17.125"). Subtract the smaller number from the bigger = .125." Add it to the smaller number, .125" + 17.125" = 17.25," there's your wheelbase.
Trucks shift in so many ways - the bushings compressing and corroding, holes ovalizing, kingpins loosening, pivot cups blowing out - all of which would shift your wheelbase, getting pretty close measurements will probably have to suffice.
Or just add both measurements then divide by 2, to get the average reading
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Curious what about the forged baseplates (at least on ventures) that shifts the WB out?
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Curious what about the forged baseplates (at least on ventures) that shifts the WB out?
Good rule of thumb is:
Venture Cast - +3.25"
Venture Forged - +3.4 - 3.5"
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I am wondering if anyone has placed their various trucks on the edge of a table or bench, (or the metal edge of the glass cabinet in the skate shop) then just put two deck bolts through the inside truck holes and compared the distance between each truck axle, in both wheelbase and height.
I know the thread has pretty much all those details and measurements noted, but often to see and do it with new untampered with trucks would be a good way to see any differences with your own eyes.
*** Especially right in front of you in said shop if you could, which was what I was meaning.
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Measurements yesterday:
-Indy Forged Hollow 149: +3.125
-Venture 5.6 cast: +3.25
-Thunder Ti Hollow Lite 148: +3.25
-Thunder Team Hollow: +3.2
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I’d like to see some more measurement for wider trucks (for instance, I skate Indy 159 and 169 interchangeable)
Most of these values are only going up to 8.5 width trucks. If I knew I would add it myself.
* correction, there is the 169 standards on there but I was wondering about other trucks, like the titaniums and hollows at that size, and the wb of some other brands like those new venture 6.1s. Also would like to see the new Indy mids on here
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Info added to the first page.
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Reading this thread makes me scared to mount my Aces (never ridden) on my 14.25 wb deck. I'm used to 14.2-14.375wb decks with mostly indys and a few sets of thunders.
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Reading this thread makes me scared to mount my Aces (never ridden) on my 14.25 wb deck. I'm used to 14.2-14.375wb decks with mostly indys and a few sets of thunders.
If you have them, set them up and try it, even if it is inside on carpet just to feel the "lightness" in the lift to manual or put the tail down.
The difference is not like going from a 7.5 to a 9 inch wide deck, or going from 99 duro to 80 duro cruiser wheels.
I have all of them and although there are very slight and subtle differences, it is not that much that total unless you are fine tuning the setup so precisely that you would notice every tiny detail.
It is the same thing going from a 14.25 to a 14.38 wheelbase - yes there is a very slight difference but not so much that it would throw out your whole ride. Going to greater extremes might, but if you already have them, you can try them and see before getting gear madness about it.
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I’d love to know the wheelbase for Indy Mids
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I’d love to know the wheelbase for Indy Mids
I didn't measure, but hit the Indy Mid thread and you will see that that they sit leaning inwards compared to forged (so probably on par with cast regs).
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Any info on Mini logo, Destructo and the new Krux (k5)?
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krux k5 measured at 3 for me
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Any info on Mini logo, Destructo and the new Krux (k5)?
Destruco D2 Mids add around 3.125" to WB last I measured.
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Awesome, thanks @rocklobster and @Bobdylanjaeb !
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I just spent some time measuring trucks and figured I would add a few I don't see on the list.
(disclaimer: all dimensions approximate)
Thunder 161 (9.125" axle) +3.10" wb (52mm height)
Indy 215 Stage 11 (10" axle) + 3.00" wb (55mm height)
ACE 66 (9.35" axle) +2.65" wb (54mm height)
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I always struggle measuring height. @kimura what was your method?
And damn.. seeing it like that ace shortens the wb a lot. Hard to make up the difference of actual wheelbase with the deck
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I
I always struggle measuring height. @kimura what was your method?
And damn.. seeing it like that ace shortens the wb a lot. Hard to make up the difference of actual wheelbase with the deck
I measured height simply by setting the truck on the edge of my workbench and using my caliper from the surface of my bench to the center of the axle. My measurements are pretty close but I suppose they could easily go 1mm up or down in either direction.
Yes I was surprised with the ACE wb as well. I had to triple check and I even compared them to Indy's and they definitely shorten things up.
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I always struggle measuring height. @kimura what was your method?
And damn.. seeing it like that ace shortens the wb a lot. Hard to make up the difference of actual wheelbase with the deck
Yes I was surprised with the ACE wb as well. I had to triple check and I even compared them to Indy's and they definitely shorten things up.
got it, that makes sense. And you took an average of both axles sides for the wb measurement?
Just for reference Tactics lists
Ace 66 as 53.3mm
Thunder 161 53mm
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I always struggle measuring height. @kimura what was your method?
And damn.. seeing it like that ace shortens the wb a lot. Hard to make up the difference of actual wheelbase with the deck
Yes I was surprised with the ACE wb as well. I had to triple check and I even compared them to Indy's and they definitely shorten things up.
Just for reference Tactics lists
Ace 66 as 53.3mm
Thunder 161 53mm
Yup and that's exactly why I put that little disclaimer in my post.
Measuring such small measurements with hand tools and eyeballing it will most likely lead to a margin of error. And at the end of the day is .3mm , 1mm, or even 2mm really going to make a difference? I say nope.
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I took it even further and measured the (nonexisting) difference bushings make.
Possible ±1mm error due to reading off the tape leads to 0.05" error in the result, pretty accurate.
Thunder 148 titanium lights, 52mm height:
Standard bushings: +3.09 ± 0.05
Bones bushings, no bottom washer: +3.04 ± 0.05
Thunder 147 hollow lights: +3.35 ± 0.05
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I took it even further and measured the (nonexisting) difference bushings make.
Possible ±1mm error due to reading off the tape leads to 0.05" error in the result, pretty accurate.
Thunder 148 titanium lights, 52mm height:
Standard bushings: +3.09 ± 0.05
Bones bushings, no bottom washer: +3.04 ± 0.05
Thunder 147 hollow lights: +3.35 ± 0.05
I’ve done this. Or sort of this. Measured height of assorted stock bushing/washers to help assess the “best” fitting aftermarket bushings for a given truck.
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AF1 info via @SweetLou
Just mounted a new set of 44 classics and a new set of 55 AF1s to the same board:
Ace Classics:
17.09375 (3/32) (axle to axle)
+ 17.21875 (7/32) (axle to axle)
\ 2 (to average results)
= 17.15625 (5/32)
-14.375 (wheelbase of board)
=2.78125 (25/32) or 2.75” wheelbase extension.
Ace AF1:
17.40625 (13/32) (axle to axle)
+ 17.25 (8/32) (axle to axle)
/2 (to average results)
= 17.328125 (10.5/32)
-14.375” (wheelbase of board)
= 2.953125 (30.5/32) or 2.875” / 3” wheelbase extension depending on how you look at it.
Basically the new ones have a tiny bit of a wider wheelbase (1/8” - 1/4”).
Oh Also:
397g for one Ace 44 Classic with washers & 397g for one Ace 55 AF1 with washers but not the re-threader so the new guys are a teeny bit lighter.
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First post on Slap not sure if this is how I do it or not. Stoked on 8.75 trucks recently. I’m on standard cast Venture 6.1 (3.125 extension), but does anyone know Thunder 151 wheelbase extension?
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First post on Slap not sure if this is how I do it or not. Stoked on 8.75 trucks recently. I’m on standard cast Venture 6.1 (3.125 extension), but does anyone know Thunder 151 wheelbase extension?
I'm not sure of the numbers exactly, but I believe Thunders extend wheelbase a wee bit less than ventures. You can always try the search bar above while in any thread (or board too) with keywords, the search will show you any posts with these keywords present.
Welcome to slap btw!
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First post on Slap not sure if this is how I do it or not. Stoked on 8.75 trucks recently. I’m on standard cast Venture 6.1 (3.125 extension), but does anyone know Thunder 151 wheelbase extension?
Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
As Palelight pointed:
"So as an example, if your deck wb is 14.25," and you ride Indy's your true axle to axle wheelbase is 17.25." The distance from the inner bolt hole to the center of the closest axle is added to the overall measurement, in this case, 1.5" per side."
(https://i.imgur.com/K3XWXev.png)
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Thunder Hollow Lights 151 (8.75" axle): + 3.25"
Thunder Ti Hollow Lite 148: +3.25
Thunder 147 Hollow Light: +3.3125 in[/b]
Destruco D2 Mids: +3.125
Thunder 161 (9.125" axle) +3.10" wb (52mm height)
Of course every measurement could be not 100% accurate so if you want to double check you're more than welcome.
Kudos to all the pals who fuel this such as palelight, software and AngryBlackMan ✌️
I don't have a pair on hand but it looks like it will be a similar case for your 151s. 3.15" on cast baseplate, 3.25" on forged baseplate.
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First post on Slap not sure if this is how I do it or not. Stoked on 8.75 trucks recently. I’m on standard cast Venture 6.1 (3.125 extension), but does anyone know Thunder 151 wheelbase extension?
I'm not sure of the numbers exactly, but I believe Thunders extend wheelbase a wee bit less than ventures. You can always try the search bar above while in any thread (or board too) with keywords, the search will show you any posts with these keywords present.
Welcome to slap btw!
You can search in threads? Holy shit ha
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First post! Appropriately enough in a dorky measurement thread.
My Film 6.0 Raws with the 4 hole baseplate got 79.5mm, which works out to 3.13". This surprised me a bit since the 5.5s on the first post are listed at 2.875". I'm wondering if the newer 4 hole baseplate had some changes from the OG 6 hole?
Also take all this with a grain of salt, some of other my measurements don't agree with the posted values. BUT my AF1 55 results came to 75.5mm, which is 2.972" which is close to the other measurement posted above so I'm confident enough in my method.
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My Film 6.0 Raws with the 4 hole baseplate got 79.5mm, which works out to 3.13". This surprised me a bit since the 5.5s on the first post are listed at 2.875". I'm wondering if the newer 4 hole baseplate had some changes from the OG 6 hole?
Please post pics and details to Film Truck topic too.
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Venture 5.6 V Hollows (+ 3.38”)
Measured on two Antiheros (14” WB and a 14.25” WB) to double check. Anyone know if the V Lights and V Hollows are any different? Or are they the same because of the forged plates?
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Venture 5.6 V Hollows (+ 3.38”)
Measured on two Antiheros (14” WB and a 14.25” WB) to double check. Anyone know if the V Lights and V Hollows are any different? Or are they the same because of the forged plates?
same baseplates so should be the same
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Added new info on the first page
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I also measured +2.95 for ace AF1 44
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To further complicate truck madness, I’m thinking a lower truck height of thunder may negate the extension of wheelbase due to making point of contact quicker. This related less to turning and more to tricks I guess.
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has anyone measured what difference kingpin tightness makes on the WB size? tightening as far as you can vs ultra loose is going to change the geometry
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has anyone measured what difference kingpin tightness makes on the WB size? tightening as far as you can vs ultra loose is going to change the geometry
You also have to wonder if the trucks being measured and perfectly centered in their pivots, and how new or beaten up the bushings are. That is obviously enough to fuck up a measurement big time when you’re getting down to 1/16ths of an inch intervals. I’m all for some truck madness, but this thread takes it too far for me
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What if you don't care and just have fun skating.
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What if you don't care and just have fun skating.
That's all good too.
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You get close enough if you measure both sides and take the average. If you wanna be anal retentive you can step on the board and turn a few times and repeat.
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has anyone measured what difference kingpin tightness makes on the WB size? tightening as far as you can vs ultra loose is going to change the geometry
You also have to wonder if the trucks being measured and perfectly centered in their pivots, and how new or beaten up the bushings are. That is obviously enough to fuck up a measurement big time when you’re getting down to 1/16ths of an inch intervals. I’m all for some truck madness, but this thread takes it too far for me
I definitely agree that it's hard to measure, but I think it's worth a shot.
The ultimate way would be to rig up a block of wood with sets of screws a given distance apart and nerd out at a skate shop on all new trucks.
I still think the info in here is useful for a rough comparison.
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i'm thinking the ultimate comparison test for this would be for one of you reprobates to buy every single truck going (just one is necessary). tighten the kingpin to the nut and the top of the kingpin being perfectly level on every truck
take any skateboard of reasonably average proportions, set up the truck, then measure the angle of the board when the tail is touching the ground (a la Schmitt)
that way we take everything else out of the equation
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I actually did the math yesterday, trying to calculate which wheelbase/weight combo leads to the same force needed to lift the tail. The result surprised me a lot, because it basically said that wheelbase does not matter nearly as much as weight, which we all know is totally wrong.
This means that the skateboard can not be modeled like a basic two arm lever, which I tried to do. (Calculating force for different arm lengths, wheelbase and tail)
There's way more behind it, probably because of the forward movement of the wheels while lifting the tail.
I'm a physicist but I really suck at classical mechanics stuff, anybody got some knowledge about mechanical engineering?
My goal would be a simple online calculator that tells you weight/wheelbase combos that fit your current setup or maybe the combo you need in order to make a slightly lighter/heavier pop feel
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In the middle of a psychotic gear crisis right now. Hoping to tighten up my wheelbase a bit but still be riding ermico trucks (that aren't Indys, obviously). From what I understand Thunders will create a shorter wheelbase than Ventures and the cast baseplates will be slightly shorter than forged?? Felt pretty confident about this and then I watched some fuckin Ben Degros video where he said Thunders actually stretched his wheelbase longer than Ventures...Honestly pretty bummed I've wandered this far down the rabbit hole
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In the middle of a psychotic gear crisis right now. Hoping to tighten up my wheelbase a bit but still be riding ermico trucks (that aren't Indys, obviously). From what I understand Thunders will create a shorter wheelbase than Ventures and the cast baseplates will be slightly shorter than forged?? Felt pretty confident about this and then I watched some fuckin Ben Degros video where he said Thunders actually stretched his wheelbase longer than Ventures...Honestly pretty bummed I've wandered this far down the rabbit hole
thunder cast < thunder forged = venture cast < venture forged
thunders with a cast baseplate is what youre looking for
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In the middle of a psychotic gear crisis right now. Hoping to tighten up my wheelbase a bit but still be riding ermico trucks (that aren't Indys, obviously). From what I understand Thunders will create a shorter wheelbase than Ventures and the cast baseplates will be slightly shorter than forged?? Felt pretty confident about this and then I watched some fuckin Ben Degros video where he said Thunders actually stretched his wheelbase longer than Ventures...Honestly pretty bummed I've wandered this far down the rabbit hole
thunders with a cast baseplate is what youre looking for
In general:
Thunder Cast - +3.15"
Thunder Forged - +3.25"
Venture Cast - +3.25"
Venture Forged - +3.4"
Slight variation by sizes but this is a good rule of thumb
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Looks like I want some regular 'Team' Thunder 149s then. Thanks dudes
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In the middle of a psychotic gear crisis right now. Hoping to tighten up my wheelbase a bit but still be riding ermico trucks (that aren't Indys, obviously). From what I understand Thunders will create a shorter wheelbase than Ventures and the cast baseplates will be slightly shorter than forged?? Felt pretty confident about this and then I watched some fuckin Ben Degros video where he said Thunders actually stretched his wheelbase longer than Ventures...Honestly pretty bummed I've wandered this far down the rabbit hole
You made me think about that meme with the guy with many strings pointing at truck madness which I've been looking for like 30 min and couldn't find.
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I’m seeing all these different measurements. I’ve took brand new trucks and measured, and this is what I got. All trucks were stock and kingpin was not tightened, nor were these trucks even stood before they were measured.
Any Independent: +3.00”
Venture Standards: +3.125”
Ace Classics: +2.75”
Ace AF-1: +2.875
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I’m seeing all these different measurements. I’ve took brand new trucks and measured, and this is what I got. All trucks were stock and kingpin was not tightened, nor were these trucks even stood before they were measured.
Venture Standards: +3.125”
I'm going to request a re-measure on this one.
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I’m seeing all these different measurements. I’ve took brand new trucks and measured, and this is what I got. All trucks were stock and kingpin was not tightened, nor were these trucks even stood before they were measured.
Venture Standards: +3.125”
I'm going to request a re-measure on this one.
And to know the truck size too plz
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I measured Venture with cast plates and got 3.1875. Measured each side 5 times and took the average of all sides. Used a solid rule with laser etching that is accurate to 1/132"
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FWIW, I got bored and setup 5.25 Royals (inverted kingpins) that I bought last year on sale. I heard it extends the WB similar to an Indy but I measured center of axel to center of axel and it's more of an in-between of Ace classics and Indy standards. Came out to +2.87 for me but I might be slightly off. I put them on a 8.06 real deck and had a session. Not as bad as I've heard, definitely worth the $25 or whatever I paid for them.
*Edited for grammar
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Might all just be in my head but I'm loving the Thunders so far. WB and weight are both somewhere in between ace and venture...perfect
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Thunder hollow light 147 : +3.3125" / 300g
Independent forged hollow 139 : 3.1875" / 335g->315g(ground down)
Independent mids 139 : +3" / 390g
Venture 5.2 low (cast): +3.283" / 369g
all brand new and loose trucks
my WB are around 14"+3.283" ~ 14.375"+3" and heavy trucks 330g~390g, went from 315g->300g once, that 15g messed up my flicks for more than one week, but have no problem 330g~390g in 10 mins.
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Has anyone got a definite measurement on AF1 compared to ace classics ?
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Posting this here for more visibility
Anyone know how the mag light lows affect WB? Is it similar to the current ATGs (which I think are +3.125)?
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I actually did the math yesterday, trying to calculate which wheelbase/weight combo leads to the same force needed to lift the tail. The result surprised me a lot, because it basically said that wheelbase does not matter nearly as much as weight, which we all know is totally wrong.
This means that the skateboard can not be modeled like a basic two arm lever, which I tried to do. (Calculating force for different arm lengths, wheelbase and tail)
There's way more behind it, probably because of the forward movement of the wheels while lifting the tail.
I'm a physicist but I really suck at classical mechanics stuff, anybody got some knowledge about mechanical engineering?
My goal would be a simple online calculator that tells you weight/wheelbase combos that fit your current setup or maybe the combo you need in order to make a slightly lighter/heavier pop feel
Your comment got me to thinking. How do people think WB and truck choice really impacts their skateboarding? What's the end goal here?
I've been messing around switching out Venture 6.1s and Ace Classic 44s on an otherwise exact same set up for the last couple of weeks. The Ventures give me a much bigger wheelbase but I was popping way better ollies, nollies, switch and so on... and I stayed more glue foot. I also landed my first 360 flips in several months.
But the Ace felt way more fun for slappies, transition and on some other flip tricks. Landed my first fake kick flips in over 20 years today (no joke) on the Aces which has me wondering what's my end goal here with the truck madness... there's no winning.... just compromise... I think I just need to commit to one truck and be done...
I’ve only ever ridden Indy cause I know exactly how they will respond. Would like to try Ace, but Indy’s are like an old pair of slippers.
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Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
As Palelight pointed:
"So as an example, if your deck wb is 14.25," and you ride Indy's your true axle to axle wheelbase is 17.25." The distance from the inner bolt hole to the center of the closest axle is added to the overall measurement, in this case, 1.5" per side."
(https://i.imgur.com/K3XWXev.png)
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Ace 44 (8.38" axle): + 2.75"
Film 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 2.875"
Independent 149 STD (8.5" axle): + 3"
Independent 169 STD (9.125" axle): + 3"
Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Krux K4 (8.5" axle): + 2.625"
Tensor ATG Aluminium 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 3.0625"
Tensor ATG Mag 5.75 (8.5" axle): + 3.125
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Thunder Hollow Lights 151 (8.75" axle): + 3.25"
Venture standard 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.25"
Venture 6.1 (8.75" axle): + 3.125”
Venture Lights 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.5"
Venture 5.8 Titanium (8.5" axle): + 3.4375
Venture 5.6 cast: +3.25
Thunder Ti Hollow Lite 148: +3.25
Independent 139 Titanium: +3.00 in
Thunder 147 Hollow Light: +3.3125 in
Destruco D2 Mids: +3.125
Thunder 161 (9.125" axle) +3.10" wb (52mm height)
Indy 215 Stage 11 (10" axle) + 3.00" wb (55mm height)
ACE 66 (9.35" axle) +2.65" wb (54mm height)
Film 6.0 raws: +3.13"
Venture 5.6 V-hollows: +3.38"
Of course every measurement could be not 100% accurate so if you want to double check you're more than welcome.
Kudos to all the pals who fuel this such as palelight, software and AngryBlackMan ✌️
Great list! I have a chart thase labels height and wb in one graph but ill have to find it if anyone was interested in it? but wish instead of truck brand in order but to do it from shortest to longest. Love the new tensor mag light atg great truck just wish they made them in a 9" axle for my old schools and big boards.
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Posting this here for more visibility
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Anyone know how the mag light lows affect WB? Is it similar to the current ATGs (which I think are +3.125)?
I got a pair at home, I'll get it measured for you over the weekend.
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Posting this here for more visibility
Expand Quote
Anyone know how the mag light lows affect WB? Is it similar to the current ATGs (which I think are +3.125)?
I got a pair at home, I'll get it measured for you over the weekend.
Much appreciated!
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Posting this here for more visibility
Expand Quote
Anyone know how the mag light lows affect WB? Is it similar to the current ATGs (which I think are +3.125)?
I got a pair at home, I'll get it measured for you over the weekend.
Much appreciated!
Without mounting bolts
Tensor Maglight Low 5.5 - +3.15"
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Posting this here for more visibility
Expand Quote
Anyone know how the mag light lows affect WB? Is it similar to the current ATGs (which I think are +3.125)?
I got a pair at home, I'll get it measured for you over the weekend.
Much appreciated!
Without mounting bolts
Tensor Maglight Low 5.5 - +3.15"
You're the best!
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Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
As Palelight pointed:
"So as an example, if your deck wb is 14.25," and you ride Indy's your true axle to axle wheelbase is 17.25." The distance from the inner bolt hole to the center of the closest axle is added to the overall measurement, in this case, 1.5" per side."
(https://i.imgur.com/K3XWXev.png)
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Ace 44 (8.38" axle): + 2.75"
Film 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 2.875"
Independent 149 STD (8.5" axle): + 3"
Independent 169 STD (9.125" axle): + 3"
Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Krux K4 (8.5" axle): + 2.625"
Tensor ATG Aluminium 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 3.0625"
Tensor ATG Mag 5.75 (8.5" axle): + 3.125
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Thunder Hollow Lights 151 (8.75" axle): + 3.25"
Venture standard 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.25"
Venture 6.1 (8.75" axle): + 3.125”
Venture Lights 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.5"
Venture 5.8 Titanium (8.5" axle): + 3.4375
Venture 5.6 cast: +3.25
Thunder Ti Hollow Lite 148: +3.25
Independent 139 Titanium: +3.00 in
Thunder 147 Hollow Light: +3.3125 in
Destruco D2 Mids: +3.125
Thunder 161 (9.125" axle) +3.10" wb (52mm height)
Indy 215 Stage 11 (10" axle) + 3.00" wb (55mm height)
ACE 66 (9.35" axle) +2.65" wb (54mm height)
Film 6.0 raws: +3.13"
Venture 5.6 V-hollows: +3.38"
Of course every measurement could be not 100% accurate so if you want to double check you're more than welcome.
Kudos to all the pals who fuel this such as palelight, software and AngryBlackMan ✌️
Great list! I have a chart thase labels height and wb in one graph but ill have to find it if anyone was interested in it? but wish instead of truck brand in order but to do it from shortest to longest. Love the new tensor mag light atg great truck just wish they made them in a 9" axle for my old schools and big boards.
Is anyone able to confirm if this is 100% correct?
Indy forged +3.125"
Thunder cast +3.125”
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Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
As Palelight pointed:
"So as an example, if your deck wb is 14.25," and you ride Indy's your true axle to axle wheelbase is 17.25." The distance from the inner bolt hole to the center of the closest axle is added to the overall measurement, in this case, 1.5" per side."
(https://i.imgur.com/K3XWXev.png)
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Ace 44 (8.38" axle): + 2.75"
Film 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 2.875"
Independent 149 STD (8.5" axle): + 3"
Independent 169 STD (9.125" axle): + 3"
Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Krux K4 (8.5" axle): + 2.625"
Tensor ATG Aluminium 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 3.0625"
Tensor ATG Mag 5.75 (8.5" axle): + 3.125
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Thunder Hollow Lights 151 (8.75" axle): + 3.25"
Venture standard 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.25"
Venture 6.1 (8.75" axle): + 3.125”
Venture Lights 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.5"
Venture 5.8 Titanium (8.5" axle): + 3.4375
Venture 5.6 cast: +3.25
Thunder Ti Hollow Lite 148: +3.25
Independent 139 Titanium: +3.00 in
Thunder 147 Hollow Light: +3.3125 in
Destruco D2 Mids: +3.125
Thunder 161 (9.125" axle) +3.10" wb (52mm height)
Indy 215 Stage 11 (10" axle) + 3.00" wb (55mm height)
ACE 66 (9.35" axle) +2.65" wb (54mm height)
Film 6.0 raws: +3.13"
Venture 5.6 V-hollows: +3.38"
Of course every measurement could be not 100% accurate so if you want to double check you're more than welcome.
Kudos to all the pals who fuel this such as palelight, software and AngryBlackMan ✌️
Great list! I have a chart thase labels height and wb in one graph but ill have to find it if anyone was interested in it? but wish instead of truck brand in order but to do it from shortest to longest. Love the new tensor mag light atg great truck just wish they made them in a 9" axle for my old schools and big boards.
Is anyone able to confirm if this is 100% correct?
Indy forged +3.125"
Thunder cast +3.125”
Not correct... at least in the 8.25" trucks I have. It might differ from size to size since Thunders have different heights between trucks up to 8" and those in the 8.25" to 8.75" range but I just checked a 148 cast vs a 144 forged and the Thunder cast will give a WB in between the Indy forged and Thunder forged, a bit closer to the Thunder forged than the Indy I would say. I didn't have a scientific-approved measuring method to back my initial conclusion just from eyeballing it, but +3.125" looks right for the Indy forged, and moonrodie's list looks right to me that the Thunder cast is +3.1875 and forged +3.25.
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Yes, another truck thread, but this one is the one we wanted to have regarding about how an specific truck affects the WB of our setup.
As Palelight pointed:
"So as an example, if your deck wb is 14.25," and you ride Indy's your true axle to axle wheelbase is 17.25." The distance from the inner bolt hole to the center of the closest axle is added to the overall measurement, in this case, 1.5" per side."
(https://i.imgur.com/K3XWXev.png)
I'll update the list as soon people add info.
Let's start:
Ace 44 (8.38" axle): + 2.75"
Film 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 2.875"
Independent 149 STD (8.5" axle): + 3"
Independent 169 STD (9.125" axle): + 3"
Independent 149 forged hollow (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Krux K4 (8.5" axle): + 2.625"
Tensor ATG Aluminium 5.5 (8.25" axle): + 3.0625"
Tensor ATG Mag 5.75 (8.5" axle): + 3.125
Thunder 149 team edition (8.5" axle): + 3.1875"
Thunder Hollow Lights 151 (8.75" axle): + 3.25"
Venture standard 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.25"
Venture 6.1 (8.75" axle): + 3.125”
Venture Lights 5.8 (8.5" axle): + 3.5"
Venture 5.8 Titanium (8.5" axle): + 3.4375
Venture 5.6 cast: +3.25
Thunder Ti Hollow Lite 148: +3.25
Independent 139 Titanium: +3.00 in
Thunder 147 Hollow Light: +3.3125 in
Destruco D2 Mids: +3.125
Thunder 161 (9.125" axle) +3.10" wb (52mm height)
Indy 215 Stage 11 (10" axle) + 3.00" wb (55mm height)
ACE 66 (9.35" axle) +2.65" wb (54mm height)
Film 6.0 raws: +3.13"
Venture 5.6 V-hollows: +3.38"
Of course every measurement could be not 100% accurate so if you want to double check you're more than welcome.
Kudos to all the pals who fuel this such as palelight, software and AngryBlackMan ✌️
Great list! I have a chart thase labels height and wb in one graph but ill have to find it if anyone was interested in it? but wish instead of truck brand in order but to do it from shortest to longest. Love the new tensor mag light atg great truck just wish they made them in a 9" axle for my old schools and big boards.
Is anyone able to confirm if this is 100% correct?
Indy forged +3.125"
Thunder cast +3.125”
Thought so - I’ve been testing 44 classics, Indy 144 forged hollow and thunder team cast 149 with the same deck and the thunders defo feel and look like they have a wider wb.
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Question time, wondering if someone could help me.
I have Thunder 148 Hollow Lights
What what the difference be between those and
Venture 5.6 Hollow Lights
Measurements and response wise?
And is Indy 144s Forged Hollow +3.1875?
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Question time, wondering if someone could help me.
I have Thunder 148 Hollow Lights
What what the difference be between those and
Venture 5.6 Hollow Lights
Measurements and response wise?
And is Indy 144s Forged Hollow +3.1875?
I don't have the measurements, but I'm sure a fellow SLAP pal can reply with the details. In summary, the Ventures will be heavier and taller in comparison to the Thunders. The Ventures will also extend your WB more than Thunders. Ventures will also make your nose and tail seem shorter which will increase the time it takes for your board to snap off the ground, but you will get more "pop" theoretically. If you have troubles with ghost pop, you may not like them; however, there's many options to resolve this: 1. smaller wheels 2. mellower kicks 3. more fingers of flat 4. longer tail/nose. The Ventures will also feel more stable and not turn as quickly as Thunders, but again, you can make adjustments if you want them more carvy.
I skate both brands and enjoy them both. I typically skate the ventures more since I tend to spend a lot of time skating ledges than flatground or transition for examples. I'm not sure if you care, but I grew up pretty much only skating Thunders so my body's muscle memory is more familiar with the feel of Thunders. What I mean by that is that my flatground tricks are way more consistent (I land tricks easier and it takes less attempts) and I also experience less fatigue which is probably due to how light Thunders feel. I also prefer Thunders on transition, too.
At the end of the day, if you set up a board and skate it for a while, your body will eventually (hopefully) get used to the set-up and most of your issues (if, any) will be less annoying.
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Question time, wondering if someone could help me.
I have Thunder 148 Hollow Lights
What what the difference be between those and
Venture 5.6 Hollow Lights
Measurements and response wise?
And is Indy 144s Forged Hollow +3.1875?
I don't have the measurements, but I'm sure a fellow SLAP pal can reply with the details. In summary, the Ventures will be heavier and taller in comparison to the Thunders. The Ventures will also extend your WB more than Thunders. Ventures will also make your nose and tail seem shorter which will increase the time it takes for your board to snap off the ground, but you will get more "pop" theoretically. If you have troubles with ghost pop, you may not like them; however, there's many options to resolve this: 1. smaller wheels 2. mellower kicks 3. more fingers of flat 4. longer tail/nose. The Ventures will also feel more stable and not turn as quickly as Thunders, but again, you can make adjustments if you want them more carvy.
I skate both brands and enjoy them both. I typically skate the ventures more since I tend to spend a lot of time skating ledges than flatground or transition for examples. I'm not sure if you care, but I grew up pretty much only skating Thunders so my body's muscle memory is more familiar with the feel of Thunders. What I mean by that is that my flatground tricks are way more consistent (I land tricks easier and it takes less attempts) and I also experience less fatigue which is probably due to how light Thunders feel. I also prefer Thunders on transition, too.
At the end of the day, if you set up a board and skate it for a while, your body will eventually (hopefully) get used to the set-up and most of your issues (if, any) will be less annoying.
Good answer!
I was going to reply earlier but thought I might sound like a dick (which I certainly don't mean to do).
All the information was in the post above, or even the first post, but what does confuse some people are the different truck widths with different measurements. Regardless of width of truck, they will still be the same wheelbase as the geometry is still the same, just extended for the wider trucks, so that would not change at all. Measurements that might indicate otherwise have been added by different people and will include a degree of human error (regardless of how well people measured), but the full size range of trucks, when new and in unused condition give the same measurements for wheelbase. Even the different height team Thunders between 52 and 53mm had almost the same wheelbase, from measurements in the shop, the 147s (lower) slightly more, the 161s (taller) slightly less.
So this was about the given measurements from fixed truck positions (as above)
Thunder Lights (all sizes): + 3.25" to 3.3"
Venture Lights (all sizes): + 3.4" to 3.5"
Adding hollow (kingpin and or axle) to the equation only changes the weight by a tiny bit, but doesn't change the overall wheelbase.
Having the forged baseplate changes things ever so slightly, especially the height (down 1.5mm from the cast) and the wb length a bit, so if you had cast (regular) baseplates, the trucks would be taller and a little closer together, roughly .1" to .2" going by those figures.
The main difference (as noted by notinternetfamous) is more in the feel of the trucks, as they will turn differently and perform differently, even if you put the same bushings in both of them, on the same board, with the same wheels, bearings, etc.
If you are more a fan of slightly taller and more stable skateboards, the Ventures will serve you well, but if you prefer more turn and a lighter feel / looser overall ride, Thunders might be your better go to.
I am happy for anyone else to correct me or tell me otherwise, from their own experiences, but this seems to be the common consensus.
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Question time, wondering if someone could help me.
I have Thunder 148 Hollow Lights
What what the difference be between those and
Venture 5.6 Hollow Lights
Measurements and response wise?
And is Indy 144s Forged Hollow +3.1875?
In general for 139/147/5.2 to 144/148/5.6, stuff gets weird above 8.5":
Indy Standard / Hollow - +3.0"
Indy Forged - +3.125"
Thunder Team / Team Hollow - +3.125"
Thunder Lights / Hollow Lights - +3.25"
Venture Standard - +3.25"
Venture Lights / Hollow / Titanium - +3.4 - 3.5"
@Mbrimson88 is right about the height - I went up in truck height and wheel size simultanously and my grinds were negatively impacted.
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im riding venture 6.1 right now great trucks but i like riding them loose so i had to change the bushing to soft bones and soon trying dohdohs
also im on 14.5 wheelbase curious to skate the deluxe 14.12 shape
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Question time, wondering if someone could help me.
I have Thunder 148 Hollow Lights
What what the difference be between those and
Venture 5.6 Hollow Lights
Measurements and response wise?
And is Indy 144s Forged Hollow +3.1875?
In general for 139/147/5.2 to 144/148/5.6, stuff gets weird above 8.5":
Indy Standard / Hollow - +3.0"
Indy Forged - +3.125"
Thunder Team / Team Hollow - +3.125"
Thunder Lights / Hollow Lights - +3.25"
Venture Standard - +3.25"
Venture Lights / Hollow / Titanium - +3.4 - 3.5"
@Mbrimson88 is right about the height - I went up in truck height and wheel size simultanously and my grinds were negatively impacted.
I feel these measurements are not in the first post and should be? Or was I blind haha?
That's to you 3 blokes who responded with your in depth response. It's muchly appreciated.
Seems like I'm best on staying what I have. Light and I just skate small ledges and flatground. I asked about the Indys as I've skated them too. Which work on some decks.
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I feel these measurements are not in the first post and should be? Or was I blind haha?
That's to you 3 blokes who responded with your in depth response. It's muchly appreciated.
Seems like I'm best on staying what I have. Light and I just skate small ledges and flatground. I asked about the Indys as I've skated them too. Which work on some decks.
I get what you are saying though (which is why I didn't want to reply right away).
The most confusing thing is the "list of wb" looks like it is more for specific widths, which could confuse people if they were looking for an 8.25 width truck and the only thing shown was 8 or 8.5 in whatever individual truck measurement scale.
The only truck with slight differences being Thunder trucks as the 143, 145 and 147 are lower (51mm), the 148, 149 and 151 are more mid (52mm) and the 161 are slightly taller (53mm but still not overly tall) so that gives an ever so slightly different wheelbase.
Everything else is the same height through all their various sizes eg Indy 139 is the same as 144, 149, 159, etc.
Forged baseplates being pretty much all 1.5mm lower than cast baseplates.
The other thing being the swapping of hangers between different trucks, regardless of them being regular, hollow or titanium, they still add up to the same as the profile of the hangers are the same between different trucks of the same brand.
So if the listing has a hollow forged 144 that someone has measured to be one thing and then someone else measures a hollow forged 169 and has a different result, it is due to human error, or differences in bushings or wear, not differences in the trucks from their "as new" condition.
It would be good to have a bit more clarity on the first post, maybe even two lists, one alphabetised and the other by number from lowest to highest.
I don't want to take over, but I guess I could do something similar to the woodshop thread for you to update the first post. At least it wouldn't really need to have continual updates though as these things don't change.
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I am super confused on the actual WB of Films and that thread doesn't help, anyone have insight?
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I am super confused on the actual WB of Films and that thread doesn't help, anyone have insight?
The first version (6-hole baseplate) was somewhere between Ace and Indy, can confirm this from subjective experience. The newer version (4h bp) is apparently pretty much on par with Indy, but haven't ridden those myself.
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I am super confused on the actual WB of Films and that thread doesn't help, anyone have insight?
The first version (6-hole baseplate) was somewhere between Ace and Indy, can confirm this from subjective experience. The newer version (4h bp) is apparently pretty much on par with Indy, but haven't ridden those myself.
I just dm’d Film inquiring about this new design and how it affected the wheelbase. Without going into any details I was told “they are more like a Indy”. Do with that info what you will, I am getting a set a 5.25 raws today and I will take a measurement on them to try and figure out where they are now.
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I am super confused on the actual WB of Films and that thread doesn't help, anyone have insight?
The first version (6-hole baseplate) was somewhere between Ace and Indy, can confirm this from subjective experience. The newer version (4h bp) is apparently pretty much on par with Indy, but haven't ridden those myself.
I just dm’d Film inquiring about this new design and how it affected the wheelbase. Without going into any details I was told “they are more like a Indy”. Do with that info what you will, I am getting a set a 5.25 raws today and I will take a measurement on them to try and figure out where they are now.
Edit: they actually ended up sending me 5.5s but I figured close enough and set them up. These are adding exactly 3” to my wheelbase from my measurements. So yes it seems like Films have a comparable wheelbase to Indy now.
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I am super confused on the actual WB of Films and that thread doesn't help, anyone have insight?
The first version (6-hole baseplate) was somewhere between Ace and Indy, can confirm this from subjective experience. The newer version (4h bp) is apparently pretty much on par with Indy, but haven't ridden those myself.
I'm skating the 4h bp and boy I love them but it made me think sth. The axle on those 5.5 = 8.375 but the 6h bp 5.5 are listed here as 8.25. Can't remember from where it came that info, can somebody confirm?
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Anyone know the WB adjustment on Tensor Alum 8.25? Skatewarehouse has the Zered Basset model on sale, and the dude still rips hard.
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Hi, I just measured my 1 month old Tensor Alloys 5.25 Regulars (8" width, 52mm height).
They add 75mm to the wheelbase, which converts to 2.95" so I guess that should be a straight 3" if you consider my highly scientific measuring process.
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I can also confirm that brand new Indy 144 Standard Forged Titaniums are still at +3" wheelbase.
And Tensor Magnesium Light TENs 5.5" (8.25" width and 55mm height) are +75mm wheelbase so actually the same +2.95" just as the Tensor Alloys.
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Just remeasured all my trucks out of boredom:
Polster Titanium 5.85, Indy bushings: +3.27
Thunder Titanium 148, Indy bushings and kinda fucked pivot cups: +3.18
Ace AF1 44: +2.95
Mini Logo 8.38: +2.85
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Will an inverted kingpin change the height/WB on a truck? I guess the answer is "depends", but in the case of Film, just removing a couple of baseplate hole lengthened them. Who would have thought!?
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Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why would the wheelbase be different between two trucks of the same brand just because one has a forged baseplate and the other cast? Wouldn't that just make the truck lower?
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These reviews are getting me excited! Thanks to every one of you! But who’s got the wheelbase measurement?
Polar board - 14.5wb
with Lurpivs on - 17.25
so about +2.75
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I'm getting +3.05 on the new royal 144 IKP.
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I'm getting +3.05 on the new royal 144 IKP.
I'm getting +2.9375 on the standard 144.
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Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but why would the wheelbase be different between two trucks of the same brand just because one has a forged baseplate and the other cast? Wouldn't that just make the truck lower?
I believe it’s the location of the mounting holes on the baseplates. The forged are drilled to have a slightly longer wheelbase once mounted than their cast counterparts.
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Film 5.25 (4 holes) are +3".
Just measured on a fresh set-up.
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Got +2.95" on Krux K5s 8.5
Yea, i skate Krux
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Venture 5.2 hi and lo wheelbase?
Thunder 147 WB?
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Film 5.25 (4 holes) are +3".
Just measured on a fresh set-up.
same goes for 5.5 and 6.0
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Anyone got a measurement for the indy mids yet?...
Been riding thunders for almost a year know. I was riding thunders and indys off and on but keep coming back to thunders for the lighter pop feeling. Which is weird because indys are closer to each other than thunders. But the height always had me ghost popping or the feeling to really have press my tail down to pop a trick. Couldn't get the timing but loved the turning I get form an indy. So the indy mids came out and I thought to try it. Found a shape(girl/chocolate g052) that I really like and thought to pair them with it. Didnt go so well. I got the reynolds hollow ones and made my board feel heavy AF. Turns out that they are heavier than a standard indy. I really think i'm liking the thunders because they are so light and not the wheelbase. But they give me the lightest, most effortless pop out of every truck I tried. Currently using tensor lights. Think they come with the forged plate and hollow kingpin not axles. Weight is around 311.
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Anyone got a measurement for the indy mids yet?...
Been riding thunders for almost a year know. I was riding thunders and indys off and on but keep coming back to thunders for the lighter pop feeling. Which is weird because indys are closer to each other than thunders. But the height always had me ghost popping or the feeling to really have press my tail down to pop a trick. Couldn't get the timing but loved the turning I get form an indy. So the indy mids came out and I thought to try it. Found a shape(girl/chocolate g052) that I really like and thought to pair them with it. Didnt go so well. I got the reynolds hollow ones and made my board feel heavy AF. Turns out that they are heavier than a standard indy. I really think i'm liking the thunders because they are so light and not the wheelbase. But they give me the lightest, most effortless pop out of every truck I tried. Currently using tensor lights. Think they come with the forged plate and hollow kingpin not axles. Weight is around 311.
This is why I eventually went with the Indy Titatniums. I liked the thunders for their weight, but I simply don't enjoy riding around on my board on Thunders... The steering is somehow not what I like. I wanted the ligth pop feel and nice steering, so I got the Indy Titaniums. It's sort of best of both worlds :)
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Does truck tightness change the wheelbase? lol
Yes, but you'd never notice it unless you compress your bottom bushing to its limit. That changes the geometry of the truck, which is why it's smarter to use harder bushings instead.
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Just set up brand new Venture 5.6 V-Lights and got +3.33" (And exactly 350g btw)
Seems like either venture specs or slap measurements are all over the place
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You have to measure both sides and take an average several measurements is best. Your trucks are almost never "flat" so that's why you see so many nearly similar measurements. I assure you that in my experience the general measurements above are accurate:
Indy Standard: 3"
Indy Mid: 3"
Royal Standard: 3.05"
Indy Forged: 3.125"
Thunder Standard: 3.125"
Thunder Forged: 3.25"
Venture Cast: 3.25"
Venture Forged: 3.35"
But it's not straightforward how they all influence pop feel. Venture Cast are 3mm taller than Thunder forged so they'll feel heavier but for me this wasn't bad as Thunder forged pop super quick and I'm too dumb to keep up. You'd think then that Indy standard would pop faster than forged too, but nope- the forged pop lighter especially in Titanium.
I have ridden all Indy and Thunder variants on the same range of decks and somehow I think Thunders pop lighter on 14.5 than Indy standard even tho the geometry would suggest otherwise.
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You have to measure both sides and take an average several measurements is best. Your trucks are almost never "flat" so that's why you see so many nearly similar measurements. I assure you that in my experience the general measurements above are accurate:
Indy Standard: 3"
Indy Mid: 3"
Royal Standard: 3.05"
Indy Forged: 3.125"
Thunder Standard: 3.125"
Thunder Forged: 3.25"
Venture Cast: 3.25"
Venture Forged: 3.35"
But it's not straightforward how they all influence pop feel. Venture Cast are 3mm taller than Thunder forged so they'll feel heavier but for me this wasn't bad as Thunder forged pop super quick and I'm too dumb to keep up. You'd think then that Indy standard would pop faster than forged too, but nope- the forged pop lighter especially in Titanium.
I have ridden all Indy and Thunder variants on the same range of decks and somehow I think Thunders pop lighter on 14.5 than Indy standard even tho the geometry would suggest otherwise.
Yeah I definitely can't read a difference of 0.02"=0.05mm off a measuring tape, so 3.35 is reasonable for sure.
On cast thunders I'm always getting +3.18 something, the rest is the same for me. I don't have indies though.
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I measured a pair of forged Indy and they are right at +3". My Thunder Team cast on the same deck are closer to +3.2. So, that actually explains why the forged have a faster pop feel. Both boards have the exact same pop angle. It's all in our heads.
I measured each side 10 times with a ruler that has markings down to 1/64". I averaged those measurements for each side and then overall. Definitely +3
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I measured a pair of forged Indy and they are right at +3". My Thunder Team cast on the same deck are closer to +3.2. So, that actually explains why the forged have a faster pop feel. Both boards have the exact same pop angle. It's all in our heads.
Ha, knew it!!
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I measured a pair of forged Indy and they are right at +3". My Thunder Team cast on the same deck are closer to +3.2. So, that actually explains why the forged have a faster pop feel. Both boards have the exact same pop angle. It's all in our heads.
I measured each side 10 times with a ruler that has markings down to 1/64". I averaged those measurements for each side and then overall. Definitely +3
mesuared my new 144 forged(without iron cross), they are +3" on spot.
but i remambered my old 139 forged witg iron cross on it were actually +3.1875, compaired to mids +3" at the same time.
i will get a mesuarement alter on my 139 forged later.
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Do forged indies really make a longer wheelbase than cast thunders? Both are somwhere between +3.12 and +3.18 right? My team thunders are around +3.15
i found this
https://freedomskateshop.at/en/blogs/skate-tech/wheelbase-und-trucks (https://freedomskateshop.at/en/blogs/skate-tech/wheelbase-und-trucks)
@Mbrimson88
I'm pretty sure there is a thread somewhere that list how much each type of trucks affects wheelbase.
Do you know where please ?
@BALARGUE
This one?
Always hidden because it had WB and not WHEELBASE in the title, I think.
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Yes
thanks @Mbrimson88
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To revive this thread:
I recently measured 5.6 Venture V-Cast at +3.125, directly matching my Thunder Team 148s. My Venture V-Lights were +3.35
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I measured a pair of forged Indy and they are right at +3". My Thunder Team cast on the same deck are closer to +3.2. So, that actually explains why the forged have a faster pop feel. Both boards have the exact same pop angle. It's all in our heads.
It has the same angle of pop because the indy's are 1,5mm taller (in theory).
But it still has shorter wheelbase, so the board might actually take less force to lift, and the heft from the weight will carry its momentum upwards better. Maybe can you put weights on ur tail and see how much force it takes? to lift? :D
I skate indy forged and Thunders team casts, and to me indy's def feel faster, but it also feels heavier in the air.
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Anyone know how much slappy trucks push out the wheelbase? Interested in picking some up but can't get to a store to measure them.
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Anyone know how much slappy trucks push out the wheelbase? Interested in picking some up but can't get to a store to measure them.
3.06” according to Prof Schmitt
He measured these and several other trucks in this post.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cn-9tV2MQSZ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
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Another wheelbase request, does anyone have a set of 8.5 silver M class trucks they can measure the wheelbase on?
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The question here is why anybody would skate Silver.
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The question here is why anybody would skate Silver.
Had a set back in 2013 on a DGK 8.38 with a 14.5 wheelbase, I remember really liking the wheelbase and pop feel, despite the trucks not being great. Trying to figure out what the effective wheel base was for madness sake.
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The question here is why anybody would skate Silver.
Had a set back in 2013 on a DGK 8.38 with a 14.5 wheelbase, I remember really liking the wheelbase and pop feel, despite the trucks not being great. Trying to figure out what the effective wheel base was for madness sake.
shoutout to you for knowing wheelbase in 2013
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Expand Quote
The question here is why anybody would skate Silver.
Had a set back in 2013 on a DGK 8.38 with a 14.5 wheelbase, I remember really liking the wheelbase and pop feel, despite the trucks not being great. Trying to figure out what the effective wheel base was for madness sake.
shoutout to you for knowing wheelbase in 2013
The deck is still in my garage, only recently measured it. Was a Kalis model with a crown royal graphic, Kalis is one of my top 3 and I was an Aussie living in Canada at the time, I could never throw it out.
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Another wheelbase request, does anyone have a set of 8.5 silver M class trucks they can measure the wheelbase on?
Seems like it shortens the wheelbase like an Ace, This is an 8.25 though.
Hope this place has an answer:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13rCMIthFb59Y-xrveasWk4GqR9jgd85fXDCIFm3g15I/edit#gid=0
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In case anybody ever searches for it:
Wheelbase of thunder hanger in a venture forged baseplate with venture bushings:
+3.55
In comparison: Thunder forged: +3.25
Venture forged: +3.35
PS: FUCK the thunder baseplate. I hate being a thunder guy but it's what works the best for me
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Can anyone re measure Standard venture 6.1 cast? I'm getting 3.248 (3.25) across multiple checks, tape measures and measuring deck wheelbase prior in case listed dims are off.
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Recently measured my 6.1 v-hollows and they are extending the wheelbase around 3.35". I'm pretty sure my 6.1 cast extended the wheelbase by 3.25"(cannot confirm anymore, sold them)
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Tried Thunders after riding Indys my whole life and it threw me right off, had to switch back right away, so I guess Ventures are out too.
I am pretty intrigued by Aces, though I’m a husky dude and ride my trucks pretty tight, could I avoid the squirrely feeling by cranking them down with hard bushings? Does the shorter wheelbase make them noticeably easier to pop vs Indy? What about for balancing mannies?
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Tried Thunders after riding Indys my whole life and it threw me right off, had to switch back right away, so I guess Ventures are out too.
I am pretty intrigued by Aces, though I’m a husky dude and ride my trucks pretty tight, could I avoid the squirrely feeling by cranking them down with hard bushings? Does the shorter wheelbase make them noticeably easier to pop vs Indy? What about for balancing mannies?
Ace Classics fucked up my pop pretty bad. Was relieved upon returning to Ventures and Indys.
You'll need hard bushings for sure. Ace hards are great, though -- the turn is there but not too squirrely.
If I didn't want to ollie anymore and just ride transition, I'd rice Aces. But for street -- no thanks.
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Thunder team hollows 149
Venture 5.8 v lights
What’s the spec difference
Height?
Wheelbase?
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Thunder team hollows 149
Venture 5.8 v lights
What’s the spec difference
Height?
Wheelbase?
Click me:
(https://i.ibb.co/tXrpM5j/Screenshot-2024-01-14-175627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tXrpM5j)
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Tried Thunders after riding Indys my whole life and it threw me right off, had to switch back right away, so I guess Ventures are out too.
I am pretty intrigued by Aces, though I’m a husky dude and ride my trucks pretty tight, could I avoid the squirrely feeling by cranking them down with hard bushings? Does the shorter wheelbase make them noticeably easier to pop vs Indy? What about for balancing mannies?
Ace Classics fucked up my pop pretty bad. Was relieved upon returning to Ventures and Indys.
You'll need hard bushings for sure. Ace hards are great, though -- the turn is there but not too squirrely.
If I didn't want to ollie anymore and just ride transition, I'd rice Aces. But for street -- no thanks.
ace were some of the most finicky, for me, trucks to pair with a deck.
the few times i got it right, they were popping tho. and with big wheels.
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Thunder team hollows 149
Venture 5.8 v lights
What’s the spec difference
Height?
Wheelbase?
Just check on the first page of this thread, as the wheelbases of every option has been updated a fair bit with relevant info from when it first started.
Thunder with any cast baseplate (any option about 52mm tall) and closer together.
Venture with any forged baseplate (also about 52mm tall) and further apart.
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Do Venture Lo raws have the same wheelbase as a Venture Hi raw? Also Forged plates?
I'm have Venture 5.2 lo's on a 8.25 and wanted to size up to 8.5 and wanted to know if the only difference between the trucks would be hight. I'm getting good at manuals and have decent snap and a lil extra height couldn't hurt, Going to 5.8 V-Cast. Or 5.8 V Hollows.
I've tried thunders and ace's but the aces threw my stance and the thunders threw my tricks while popping off the front.
Crailtap G069 -> G096
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I always used thunders forged 148, now I bought ventures forged 5.6. Will I notice a difference in +0.10"???
Tks!
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I always used thunders forged 148, now I bought ventures forged 5.6. Will I notice a difference in +0.10"???
Tks!
Yeah you can feel it, might need to pop a little bit harder. But it's not a big change and you'll get used to it in no time.
Have fun sliding on your new baseplate
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I always used thunders forged 148, now I bought ventures forged 5.6. Will I notice a difference in +0.10"???
Tks!
Have fun sliding on your new baseplate
thanks! I thought you wouldn't notice such a small fringe, especially when it's the same height
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I just got the ventures rolling.
I had to adapt a little to the kickflips and they were a bit rockety, but I think it can be corrected quickly. Everything else didn't require much adaptation and the stability is actually phenomenal.
I didn't touch the KingPin and even so the washer is already trying to penetrate the bushing after just 2 hours :o