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Skateboarding => Skate Questions => Trick Tips => Topic started by: rocklobster on October 20, 2020, 08:53:03 AM

Title: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 20, 2020, 08:53:03 AM
Been trying to apply the same principals of a frontside tailslide to the backside variation.

- Drag sideways instead of up
- Aim to lock my tail closer to the start of the ledge rather than too far ahead to avoid the board slipping out under me
- Look forward with front shoulder pointing forward

I can slide and roll out fakie but it's hit or miss, either my tail missed or the deck slips out front under me. Whenever I get a solid lock in I don't slide and stick. Feels like I have all the ingredients but the cake isn't coming out right.

Ledge had been waxed sufficient on the top and sides. Ledge I'm practicing on is low, between ankle and shin height so it always feels like I'm slapping my tail in too hard and hence not sliding

Any and all help appreciated.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: truthislie on October 20, 2020, 09:08:14 AM
Been battling bsts for years and I m essentially in the same boat as you. I am not sure if that qualifies me for giving you tipps on it, but I heard a lot of them, so here we go:

When you think your lower body is twisted enough, twist it some more. Make sure your shoulders stay parallel to the ledge while your have all your weight on your backfoot. It´s kind of like you are bowling but push that weight on your backfoot as hard as you can. The preassure has to come from your hip (not your foot) and the shoulders are there to create some kind of counterweight so you don´t slip out and can control it. Also try to jump into the slide and not a lot higher than the ledge...

Maybe some of that helps, but as I said... I have been practicing and discussing backtails for a long time and still work on them ;)

Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Carrolls Chesthairs on October 20, 2020, 06:08:53 PM
Make sure you don't BS your BS 180s.
Mentioned above, turn more than you think and don't be afraid to stand on top of what you're sliding.
Look over your shoulder when sliding if you're worried about going blind.

For tranny:
turn even MORE than you expect. worst case scenario you start to turn bs into the tranny but you can probably yank it back under you for a normal drop/roll in.

Get those wheels screeching like busenitz and you'll know you're doing it right
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 20, 2020, 10:56:34 PM
Been battling bsts for years and I m essentially in the same boat as you. I am not sure if that qualifies me for giving you tipps on it, but I heard a lot of them, so here we go:

When you think your lower body is twisted enough, twist it some more. Make sure your shoulders stay parallel to the ledge while your have all your weight on your backfoot. It´s kind of like you are bowling but push that weight on your backfoot as hard as you can. The preassure has to come from your hip (not your foot) and the shoulders are there to create some kind of counterweight so you don´t slip out and can control it. Also try to jump into the slide and not a lot higher than the ledge...

Maybe some of that helps, but as I said... I have been practicing and discussing backtails for a long time and still work on them ;)

Interested, I was thinking about how the hips are really important in the rotation, just dragging with your feet isn't enough  and it causes your upper torso to get left behind. I guess getting the hips helps complete the rotation across the body from the waist up so your shoulders and head follow suit. I've tried getting the steez position (shoulders parallel, looking back) but it all pose not slide plus no lock. I guess there could be something about getting the whole body into it so the forward momentum isn't lost during the lock.

Edit: I managed to get more comfortable with FS Tailslides by opening up my hips more (focusing on the dragging sideways), I'll try this same principal the next time I'm at the park.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: anon on October 21, 2020, 12:12:48 AM
the first thing that came to mind when learning back tails was to ollie into 5-0, then turn
https://youtu.be/Fs6wIMYH0eM?t=91
next, remove the 5-0 and flow into position in one motion
that didn't work for me
instead, i would do back tails like back lips. rather than pivoting from the back truck, i'd whip the tail backwards, into the ledge
focus your mind on the forward motion. imagine you're powerslidng through the air and there happens to be an obstacle underneath your tail
don't worry about landing on anything
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 21, 2020, 12:36:30 AM
the first thing that came to mind when learning back tails was to ollie into 5-0, then turn
https://youtu.be/Fs6wIMYH0eM?t=91
next, remove the 5-0 and flow into position in one motion
that didn't work for me

instead, i would do back tails like back lips. rather than pivoting from the back truck, i'd whip the tail backwards, into the ledge
focus your mind on the forward motion. imagine you're powerslidng through the air and there happens to be an obstacle underneath your tail
don't worry about landing on anything

Damn for a moment I thought you were asking me to do them like Ricky Oyola, great back tail but more speed than I could ever muster.

BS Lipslide is another bucket list trick for me. I can't find a rail low enough to practice locking in, the 1 I have nearest to me is a touch too low, really short and riddled with cracks in the roll up.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: EdLawndale on October 21, 2020, 01:50:51 AM
Ronnie Creager says that, when practicing your bs tailslides, "If you need help, come at a 90 degree angle, ollie back tail and ollie out."

https://youtu.be/rhvU053idKA
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: tzhangdox on October 21, 2020, 02:19:15 AM
I find looking down and back at your back foot as soon as you pop helps a bit.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Billy Bitchcakes on October 21, 2020, 03:29:37 AM
Ronnie Creager says that, when practicing your bs tailslides, "If you need help, come at a 90 degree angle, ollie back tail and ollie out."

https://youtu.be/rhvU053idKA

Thanks Ronnie, very helpful.

Reminds me of this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY38m4nW5LA
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Billy Bitchcakes on October 21, 2020, 03:34:24 AM
Asking as well as I can't do them for shit either but have a different problem than most, I just cannot keep my board on my feet when ollieing into them no matter what. I don't think I'd have trouble sliding or landing but I just can't get into them. As soon as I pop my board goes away from the ledge and I land on one foot on top of it. I think it's a commitment thing of not leaning away from the ledge as I ollie so my board rockets but idk. Anyone else had that and figured it out?

instead, i would do back tails like back lips. rather than pivoting from the back truck, i'd whip the tail backwards, into the ledge
focus your mind on the forward motion. imagine you're powerslidng through the air and there happens to be an obstacle underneath your tail
don't worry about landing on anything

This makes sense in my head, although I have real trouble getting backlips round far enough as well. I'll try it out
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: GardenSkater77 on October 21, 2020, 05:40:31 AM
I have never done a decent front side tail slide, lip slide, or smith grind on a ledge, but I can do all three back side and learned them all relatively quickly. I am a backside skater, so maybe I can give a few pointers to front side skaters.

-on all three look over your shoulder when sliding. If you go parallel I don’t think you can push the slide enough.
-come in at a 30 degree angle—just enough to get your tail onto the ledge with a quick whip.
-Ollie your front foot 90 degree like a bs 180. In air push your back foot through the ledge.
-land on your toes. You really have to stand on your toes to not stop.
-coming out regular you loosen your push and turn your board forward with your front heal.

Doing a shuvit out is actually easier in a way.
Nollie tail slide can also help to understand the motion with less risk.

I learned lip slides and smith grinds first so maybe try those at the same time. BS smith grinds are the same motion as bs tail slides but with less twerk.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 21, 2020, 05:47:43 AM
I have never done a decent front side tail slide, lip slide, or smith grind on a ledge, but I can do all three back side and learned them all relatively quickly. I am a backside skater, so maybe I can give a few pointers to front side skaters.

-on all three look over your shoulder when sliding. If you go parallel I don’t think you can push the slide enough.
-come in at a 30 degree angle—just enough to get your tail onto the ledge with a quick whip.
-Ollie your front foot 90 degree like a bs 180. In air push your back foot through the ledge.
-land on your toes. You really have to stand on your toes to not stop.
-coming out regular you loosen your push and turn your board forward with your front heal.

Doing a shuvit out is actually easier in a way.
Nollie tail slide can also help to understand the motion with less risk.

I learned lip slides and smith grinds first so maybe try those at the same time. BS smith grinds are the same motion as bs tail slides but with less twerk.

You mentioned push through the ledge a few times, can you explain that further?
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: GardenSkater77 on October 21, 2020, 06:03:51 AM
When I miss on this trick it is because I am leaning too far back and my board will shoot out. I expect this to happen warming up and will eventually find the right amount of pressure. If you just Ollie to tail you will stop dead.

The push is where your back foot gets slightly out ahead of your body. You are not 90 degrees your front foot is in back of your back foot.

I will try to find a picture that illustrates my point.

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a0f79f756839a305edb009ea665a7621/tumblr_nrjdebRP4D1rv4h7no1_500.jpg)

Look at the action on the back foot. See the heal lift and the back leg angle. That’s that PUSH...


Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: jerrygurneyscream on October 21, 2020, 06:34:10 AM
The thing that helped me the most was popping further from the ledge than I normally would for backside tricks and leaning back slightly on the pop. And then just look over your shoulder like a front board and your legs will follow on the pop out. Also for tranny as was mentioned over rotating really helps make the slide easier. With back tails i tend to try to make it slip out before i try to start really being able to stand up on the slide.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 21, 2020, 06:53:45 AM
When I miss on this trick it is because I am leaning too far back and my board will shoot out. I expect this to happen warming up and will eventually find the right amount of pressure. If you just Ollie to tail you will stop dead.

The push is where your back foot gets slightly out ahead of your body. You are not 90 degrees your front foot is in back of your front foot.

I will try to find a picture that illustrates my point.


(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a0f79f756839a305edb009ea665a7621/tumblr_nrjdebRP4D1rv4h7no1_500.jpg)

Look at the action on the back foot. See the heal lift and the back leg angle. That’s that PUSH...

Great explanation and the pic.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: GardenSkater77 on October 21, 2020, 07:04:19 AM
Expand Quote
When I miss on this trick it is because I am leaning too far back and my board will shoot out. I expect this to happen warming up and will eventually find the right amount of pressure. If you just Ollie to tail you will stop dead.

The push is where your back foot gets slightly out ahead of your body. You are not 90 degrees your front foot is in back of your front foot.

I will try to find a picture that illustrates my point.


(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a0f79f756839a305edb009ea665a7621/tumblr_nrjdebRP4D1rv4h7no1_500.jpg)

Look at the action on the back foot. See the heal lift and the back leg angle. That’s that PUSH...
[close]

Great explanation and the pic.

You’re welcome.

Editors note: it is impossible for ones front foot to be in back of ones front foot. I meant back foot but I am sure you interpreted that.

Skating is so weird that I look at people who FS tail slide like why do you look so good on that I suck and then BSTS and the other guy thinks the same thing. My body just moves backside so much easier. Front side I always open up or something. Maybe I just need to find the right ledge/high curb. I don’t get any enjoyment skating boxes anymore. Feels like practice and the ones and the park use aluminum edging which sucks to grind.

Have a good day...
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: EdLawndale on October 21, 2020, 01:42:28 PM
Expand Quote
Ronnie Creager says that, when practicing your bs tailslides, "If you need help, come at a 90 degree angle, ollie back tail and ollie out."

https://youtu.be/rhvU053idKA
[close]

Thanks Ronnie, very helpful.

That's funny, thanks for that. Yeah, I guess Ronnie ain't exactly as erudite as a college professor...
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Billy Bitchcakes on October 21, 2020, 02:46:23 PM
Expand Quote
I have never done a decent front side tail slide, lip slide, or smith grind on a ledge, but I can do all three back side and learned them all relatively quickly. I am a backside skater, so maybe I can give a few pointers to front side skaters.

-on all three look over your shoulder when sliding. If you go parallel I don’t think you can push the slide enough.
-come in at a 30 degree angle—just enough to get your tail onto the ledge with a quick whip.
-Ollie your front foot 90 degree like a bs 180. In air push your back foot through the ledge.
-land on your toes. You really have to stand on your toes to not stop.
-coming out regular you loosen your push and turn your board forward with your front heal.

Doing a shuvit out is actually easier in a way.
Nollie tail slide can also help to understand the motion with less risk.

I learned lip slides and smith grinds first so maybe try those at the same time. BS smith grinds are the same motion as bs tail slides but with less twerk.
[close]

You mentioned push through the ledge a few times, can you explain that further?

I was doing switch tailslides yesterday and worked that out, would imagine it's the same for back tails. I realised you need to 'complete' the turn into it once you're already in. Like just aim to get your board onto the ledge and then push your back foot round that last bit to not only complete the turn but also get your board slightly in front of your body weight. Doing it that way means it should slide easier as you're not dropping down straight into it, but also stop you from spinning out as it stops your body rotation
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Iceman on October 21, 2020, 05:13:21 PM
just an aside note:

this is one of my tricks...and.... i'm old as fuck.

back when i was a young whippersnapper (twenties) i thought backtails were easiest on a knee-high + ledges -- anything lower was actually difficult. eventually, my age doubled, and my pop...did i say pop?? yeah, that disappeared. no pop left. backtails are now possible on curbs, but much more doable on shin-high ledges...but, only on the rare days that i feel springy.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Madam, I'm Adam on October 21, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Maybe if I tell you what I DIDN'T do, that could help you out. I have no one to talk to about this, so it's going to be a long one.

I spent the whole spring and summer this year trying to relearn them on a curb and I failed. I learned them 15 years ago and got lazy and lost them like a fool.

When I could do them back then, I could only do them to fakie. I guess that was more natural to me. This spring I wanted not only to relearn them but to go out to regular because that's more "acceptable."

But I don't know, that might've fucked me over. I think I was spending too much effort trying to contort my shoulders into a position where I could come out regular. I'm pretty sure that was stopping me from leaning into the slide and pushing it with my toes. I should've just focused on relearning them fakie and then went from there.

I eventually started trying them to fakie but it felt too late; I was barely sliding any, and if I did slide, it would only be for a millisecond.

I'm goofy-footed, and the recurring problem I have is that when I ollie and turn backside, I'll always stick on the curb. My back wheel facing the curb would always hit the curb and I'd land at an angle.

I remember that when I initially learned them many years ago, sometimes I would lock in, slide, and shoot out, or I would land with my back wheels on the ledge (the Janoski). Neither happened this year - I would ollie and if even I got my tail on the curb, I would stick every single time.

The weird thing is I tried relearning back tails five years ago and I DID shoot out of a few attempts, as a result of correctly locking into the curb...but now I can't even do that.

Full disclosure, I think part of my problem is that I couldn't even do b/s 5050s because I lost those as well. But I relearned them, did a few on a curb, but they're also strangely difficult to do now. So maybe it's going to help, because 15 years ago I learned bs 5050s before I learned back tails.

I was trying to take everyone's tips - swing my hips more, keep my shoulders parallel with the curb, roll up at a slight angle, pop THEN turn, try and push with my toes, look at my back foot, lean in the opposite direction of where I'm going...nothing was working.

I know the problem's in popping and turning properly. 50% of the time, when I'd try to ollie on, the board would flop off my feet or hit the curb. My ollie isn't as precise as it needs to be, I guess. For some reason it's hard to correctly visualize landing the trick.

Also the thing that sucks is that it's started to snow where I live, so I'm going to have to wait for five months before it's consistently warm enough to try to relearn them again. There's only one indoor park and it doesn't have anything small enough for me to learn on, if I can even get in due to virus regulations. It's fucked.

Here's an attempt of mine if anyone's interested.

https://imgur.com/AnB9taB (https://imgur.com/AnB9taB)
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: GardenSkater77 on October 21, 2020, 07:18:26 PM
Few observations:

-a curb is too low for that trick. 12”-14” ledge is ideal.
-you are floating the bs Ollie so you land on the ledge on the down.
-you over rotate the bs 180.

Try to get your back tail on quicker.

It’s hard on a curb (I’ve never tried one on something lower than a ledge) because you want catch the tail on the up. You only want to Ollie high enough to get on the ledge.

Check out @franc doing an air nollie to back tail in the ‘Old guys post here’ section. He has impeccable back tail on curb form. That’s your guy!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGNcWFAl0gX/
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 21, 2020, 08:09:52 PM
http://www.jenkemmag.com/home/2020/10/21/30-year-quest-learning-backside-tailslides/

We ain't along my friends!

So much to take in and try this evening at the park!
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: lazer69 on October 21, 2020, 09:27:17 PM
You look like your jumping into it from a mile away and with too much angle.


I cant really do them. But to me it looks like people that do them do a nice crispy ollie then late bs "180"
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 22, 2020, 10:00:19 AM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
When I miss on this trick it is because I am leaning too far back and my board will shoot out. I expect this to happen warming up and will eventually find the right amount of pressure. If you just Ollie to tail you will stop dead.

The push is where your back foot gets slightly out ahead of your body. You are not 90 degrees your front foot is in back of your front foot.

I will try to find a picture that illustrates my point.


(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a0f79f756839a305edb009ea665a7621/tumblr_nrjdebRP4D1rv4h7no1_500.jpg)

Look at the action on the back foot. See the heal lift and the back leg angle. That’s that PUSH...
[close]

Great explanation and the pic.
[close]

You’re welcome.

Editors note: it is impossible for ones front foot to be in back of ones front foot. I meant back foot but I am sure you interpreted that.

Skating is so weird that I look at people who FS tail slide like why do you look so good on that I suck and then BSTS and the other guy thinks the same thing. My body just moves backside so much easier. Front side I always open up or something. Maybe I just need to find the right ledge/high curb. I don’t get any enjoyment skating boxes anymore. Feels like practice and the ones and the park use aluminum edging which sucks to grind.

Have a good day...

Some observations from today:
"The Push" works - 1st one I tried today I got a decent slide and exited forward, the 2nd one I tried I slid got out fakie, then nothing in between for around 20 tries till my last 4 in the session where I got a solid lock and exited fakie with a proper pop out instead of slipping out.
1) It's counter-intuitive because you would think that the added push would cause over-rotation and the deck slipping out. But "The Push" helps to get the baseplate slotted into the ledge perfectly while overcoming the inertia from the initial lock of the tail.
2) I still got stuck on a lot of the attempts but I attribute that to under-rotation from not committing, not looking back or smashing my tail from above the ledge and not staying on my toes.
3) The ledge I'm working on is tiny (6-7" max), a taller ledge like 10-12" seems ideal
4) Slight angle to parallel worked best for me, too much angle caused me to under-rotate my board and "The Push" couldn't compensate for it. While rolling up my front shoulder was pointing into the ledge slightly, that helped with opening up the shoulders to aid the rotation.

I visualized Josh Kalis' Backside Tailslides (and 360 flips) when I attempted the trick because he exaggerates "The Push". After sifting through his Memory Screen and IG but couldn't find the specific clip.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3j7akUD7cD/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

This one was the closest I came up with, in one of the last few trick you can seem him really jamming / slotting his tail into the ledge with his back foot. I guess that's where the hip rotation really makes the different - rotation of the board under foot with while maintaining the upper body parallel to the ledge.

Overall not a bad day, landed 6 (1 regular, 5 fakie) out of 20-ish tries. I was locking in a lot more consistently but sticking and the times I did lock in I could actually feel the baseplate slide instead of gliding haphazardly across the ledge. I still need to work on my hip rotation. "The Push" is scary and counter-intuitive - it definitely takes commitment to allow yourself to over-rotate so you actually rotate sufficiently.

Shoutout to @GardenSkater77, @jerrygurneyscream and @Billy Bitchcakes for your secret sauce.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Madam, I'm Adam on October 22, 2020, 11:19:11 AM
@GardenSkater77  and @lazer69  Thanks guys! Appreciate the feedback. I'm rooting for you @rocklobster !
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 22, 2020, 07:40:20 PM
@GardenSkater77  and @lazer69  Thanks guys! Appreciate the feedback. I'm rooting for you @rocklobster !

Shalom.

My bucket list of tricks has expanded substantially post-lockdown and hearing you guys talk about the secret sauce of tricks has been really helpful. I think I've skated better in the last year than I did in 20s when I was struggling to balance work, social life, partying and other hobbies. I'm not mindlessly trying tricks and hoping to land 1 in 3 hours; I approach more methodically and think about my the physics of the board and body. And just be more chill about skateboarding.

Edit:
More progress today, "The Push" is becoming more 2nd nature and I have the confidence to roll up faster, pop and lock with more authority. My board is slipping out a lot less than (once in the whole session) and the baseplate is catching on more consistently. Like I mentioned above, it's counter-intuitive but it's working for me. Still not getting the weight distribution where I want it, I can control my slide and actually turn out fakie, but regular is still a challenge. The times I was able to come out regular I slid 1/2 a foot.

Going to work up the balls to try it on a taller ledge tomorrow, going from 6" to 18" so quite the step up. If I get close on 1 tomorrow I'll take it as a victory.

Hope the rest of you are making some progress, shalom for the weekend.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 24, 2020, 12:01:07 AM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGt3d7Yheso/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
2 weeks ago I didn't have the confidence or consistency to bring this trick to a tall ledge. Today, 2 hours and 50+ tries later, I got 3 rolling out to fakie but I'll take it.

The slide on a taller ledges is definitely easier since I couldn't get too high above the ledge and slam my tail down. The push came more naturally as well. The hardest part was committing to a solid pop instead of a 1/2 assed one and kicking the board away, I find I land my tricks faster and with great consistency once I do that. After getting a solid pop the rest was just muscle memory and hanging on for the ride.

3 words: Pop, drag (sideways), lock

Shalom pals, couldn't have done it without you guys. I'll work to get them cleaner with a proper exit in the coming weeks.

Edit: After multiple re-watches, I'm still not getting "The Push", I think that's the difference between a solid lock with control on the slide and a lazy glide over the top.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: GardenSkater77 on October 24, 2020, 07:28:30 AM
@rocklobster

That was perfect. Looks like you’ve been doing them for years.

I can’t remember the last time I tried one, but I may have to start trying them again. I am happy for you.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: KushBush on October 25, 2020, 06:26:05 PM
I learned back tails last fall, but I have finally mastered them, and understanding the “push” is tricky. What I do for getting a good slide is right before my tails hits the ledge I slightly kick out my back leg in front of me which initiates the slide. To hold it long, you will find that your toe side wheels are sliding against the ledge more than your heel side wheels so your board is almost more diagonal than perpendicular with the ledge. This helps with coming out to forward because the friction pushes your board back to forward (if that makes sense). To come out to forward, while I am sliding (I am regular) my board is in the bottom right of my vision and I am looking in front of me to spot the landing. I also find that having my front arm down helps me look over my shoulder. Hopefully this helps a bit with holding it and coming out to forward, it took me a long time to understand this trick but man it’s a fun one!

Btw, back tail to fakie was super clean! Good form.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 25, 2020, 07:16:45 PM
I learned back tails last fall, but I have finally mastered them, and understanding the “push” is tricky. What I do for getting a good slide is right before my tails hits the ledge I slightly kick out my back leg in front of me which initiates the slide. To hold it long, you will find that your toe side wheels are sliding against the ledge more than your heel side wheels so your board is almost more diagonal than perpendicular with the ledge. This helps with coming out to forward because the friction pushes your board back to forward (if that makes sense). To come out to forward, while I am sliding (I am regular) my board is in the bottom right of my vision and I am looking in front of me to spot the landing. I also find that having my front arm down helps me look over my shoulder. Hopefully this helps a bit with holding it and coming out to forward, it took me a long time to understand this trick but man it’s a fun one!

Btw, back tail to fakie was super clean! Good form.

The push / slot in is what gives guys like Justin Strubing the style and control. You're right about the leading arm (left in our case) position, having it slightly down allows us to keep out line of sight clear.

I'll start a separate thread for BS Smith grinds because that is the 2nd trick I want to hammer out this year too. But if anyone has some initial thoughts fire away.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: tzhangdox on October 26, 2020, 01:34:52 AM
Expand Quote
I learned back tails last fall, but I have finally mastered them, and understanding the “push” is tricky. What I do for getting a good slide is right before my tails hits the ledge I slightly kick out my back leg in front of me which initiates the slide. To hold it long, you will find that your toe side wheels are sliding against the ledge more than your heel side wheels so your board is almost more diagonal than perpendicular with the ledge. This helps with coming out to forward because the friction pushes your board back to forward (if that makes sense). To come out to forward, while I am sliding (I am regular) my board is in the bottom right of my vision and I am looking in front of me to spot the landing. I also find that having my front arm down helps me look over my shoulder. Hopefully this helps a bit with holding it and coming out to forward, it took me a long time to understand this trick but man it’s a fun one!

Btw, back tail to fakie was super clean! Good form.
[close]

The push / slot in is what gives guys like Justin Strubing the style and control. You're right about the leading arm (left in our case) position, having it slightly down allows us to keep out line of sight clear.

I'll start a separate thread for BS Smith grinds because that is the 2nd trick I want to hammer out this year too. But if anyone has some initial thoughts fire away.

I think I did a paragraph in response to you about back smiths a while ago, not sure which thread, could be worth diggin up. Props on the back tail, to fakie is just as satisfying imo, I also need to brush up on mine to regs, maybe gotta put in some hours soon.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 26, 2020, 09:00:23 AM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
I learned back tails last fall, but I have finally mastered them, and understanding the “push” is tricky. What I do for getting a good slide is right before my tails hits the ledge I slightly kick out my back leg in front of me which initiates the slide. To hold it long, you will find that your toe side wheels are sliding against the ledge more than your heel side wheels so your board is almost more diagonal than perpendicular with the ledge. This helps with coming out to forward because the friction pushes your board back to forward (if that makes sense). To come out to forward, while I am sliding (I am regular) my board is in the bottom right of my vision and I am looking in front of me to spot the landing. I also find that having my front arm down helps me look over my shoulder. Hopefully this helps a bit with holding it and coming out to forward, it took me a long time to understand this trick but man it’s a fun one!

Btw, back tail to fakie was super clean! Good form.
[close]

The push / slot in is what gives guys like Justin Strubing the style and control. You're right about the leading arm (left in our case) position, having it slightly down allows us to keep out line of sight clear.

I'll start a separate thread for BS Smith grinds because that is the 2nd trick I want to hammer out this year too. But if anyone has some initial thoughts fire away.
[close]

I think I did a paragraph in response to you about back smiths a while ago, not sure which thread, could be worth diggin up. Props on the back tail, to fakie is just as satisfying imo, I also need to brush up on mine to regs, maybe gotta put in some hours soon.

Expand Quote
BS Smiths and Lipslides! Can't get over the mental barrier to pop a BS 5-0 and point my toes down for the Smith. Can't bring myself to ollie up and over the top of the ledge to lock in the lipslide.
[close]

The way I learned back smiths was to get comfortable with getting into a smith going slow ish without grinding. Think about it more like a missed 5050 instead like a 5-0 where you tend to rocket your ollie a bit.

Once you're comfortable with getting into the back smith position and sticking, try going a bit faster, leaning not only back but also away from the ledge (toeside) when you get in. Also make sure you get into the ledge very gently (ollie into the grind, not onto it) and try have your board and lower body slightly ahead of your upper body and you should slowly be able to start grinding it a bit. Obviously put most of the weight on your back foot, your front foot is only meant to point the front of the board in a dipped position and for the most part should be pretty limp with no real weight over it.

I found getting into the position quite difficult, let alone getting it to grind which is why I think it might be beneficial to break it down into two phases: ollieing into the position and then learning to be delicate/having the correct weight distribution/grinding, so that there isn't too much to think about at once. Also, like with most backside tricks, I find that trying to look at my back foot after popping generally helps me get my shoulders aligned properly.


For the lazy, text in bold is an important distinction I will work on. Trying to ollie up above the ledge and pointing my toe down feels overly complicated and gets the weight distribution all weird.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Lloyd Braun on October 28, 2020, 11:35:54 AM
When I first learned them I did it to fakie that helped me as it was more like a back 180 just barely sliding the tail. Back tails are one of my favorites. For me I roll up at a slight angle, pop up and over the ledge and then rotate 90. Land on toes and slide for a few feet then come out.

Lots of good tips in here, I look straight down at my back foot never even thought to look over my shoulder I’ll have to try it. I can’t hold them for more than 3 feet maybe that would help.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: ClayH on October 28, 2020, 12:32:52 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGtoKNHg0up/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CGtoKNHg0up/)

I FINALLY learned these over the weekend and got a little back to back with the homie. For me, I've been able to get into them for years, but couldn't slide them and would either stick, or, on the rare occasion, slip out. They clicked for the first time the night of the clip and what it was for me was I had to

1. learned back smiths and back lips first. Huge help. Feels really really similar to a back smith.

2. back foot way further ON the tail, not hanging off the back in the slightest. This is what fixed my slide

3. hit the edge of the ledge at first, that way you don't have to think much about the slide and can think about getting in and out of it

Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 28, 2020, 08:11:36 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGtoKNHg0up/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CGtoKNHg0up/)

I FINALLY learned these over the weekend and got a little back to back with the homie. For me, I've been able to get into them for years, but couldn't slide them and would either stick, or, on the rare occasion, slip out. They clicked for the first time the night of the clip and what it was for me was I had to

1. learned back smiths and back lips first. Huge help. Feels really really similar to a back smith.

2. back foot way further ON the tail, not hanging off the back in the slightest. This is what fixed my slide

3. hit the edge of the ledge at first, that way you don't have to think much about the slide and can think about getting in and out of it

Coming out regular all proper and with authority, hope something in this thread was helpful for you.

Could you explain #2 a bit more? Do you mean when popping or sliding.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Sila on October 28, 2020, 10:34:48 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CGtoKNHg0up/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/CGtoKNHg0up/)

I FINALLY learned these over the weekend and got a little back to back with the homie. For me, I've been able to get into them for years, but couldn't slide them and would either stick, or, on the rare occasion, slip out. They clicked for the first time the night of the clip and what it was for me was I had to

1. learned back smiths and back lips first. Huge help. Feels really really similar to a back smith.

2. back foot way further ON the tail, not hanging off the back in the slightest. This is what fixed my slide

3. hit the edge of the ledge at first, that way you don't have to think much about the slide and can think about getting in and out of it
 

Damn that looked really good. I gave up on them after slipping out a few times but this thread is getting me hyped.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: ClayH on October 29, 2020, 08:21:39 AM
Thanks for the love, y'all.

With the back foot thing, it's more of a set-up thing so that I land with my back foot more centered (both laterally and vertically) and the sole of my shoe isn't touching the ledge. It also feels like it pushes my baseplate against the ledge and locks it better, as well as being able to stand on top of it easier. I wish I could explain with a picture, but imagine you're board as an x(width) and y(length) axis. I'm mainly talking about moving your back foot further up the y axis instead of being right on the edge of the tail. Less on the edge and more ON it. Might have been a personal problem that not everyone has, since i've been making that adjustment on a lot of tricks lately.

As for the slipping out, I had the same problem and it actually messed with my wrist pretty bad, which made me stop really going for them for a while. I don't think I would've realized it at the time, but I wasn't fully committed and standing up on top of it, which was making me slip out. Once I was really on top of it and had my head and shoulders looking OUT of the slide ready to come out to regs, I stopped slipping out and actually stuck a few times, which was weirdly refreshing, after slipping out constantly, cause that just meant I had to go faster and push on my back toes a bit more.

Whew, just typed an essay, but anything to get those sweet sweet back tails.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 29, 2020, 08:38:56 AM
Being more confident on them, pushing faster and sliding further is definitely a great feeling. I was able to do them to fakie within 5 tries today, to regular took more control but I was rolling out to fakie on the fail attempts anyway.

Can't emphasize the importance of the push / nudge. It separates a lock in and no slide to lock in plus slide.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Billy Bitchcakes on October 29, 2020, 08:46:53 AM
yo props that was a nice back tail
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on October 29, 2020, 10:34:04 PM

Expand Quote
Expand Quote
BS Smiths and Lipslides! Can't get over the mental barrier to pop a BS 5-0 and point my toes down for the Smith. Can't bring myself to ollie up and over the top of the ledge to lock in the lipslide.
[close]

The way I learned back smiths was to get comfortable with getting into a smith going slow ish without grinding. Think about it more like a missed 5050 instead like a 5-0 where you tend to rocket your ollie a bit.

Once you're comfortable with getting into the back smith position and sticking, try going a bit faster, leaning not only back but also away from the ledge (toeside) when you get in. Also make sure you get into the ledge very gently (ollie into the grind, not onto it) and try have your board and lower body slightly ahead of your upper body and you should slowly be able to start grinding it a bit. Obviously put most of the weight on your back foot, your front foot is only meant to point the front of the board in a dipped position and for the most part should be pretty limp with no real weight over it.

I found getting into the position quite difficult, let alone getting it to grind which is why I think it might be beneficial to break it down into two phases: ollieing into the position and then learning to be delicate/having the correct weight distribution/grinding, so that there isn't too much to think about at once. Also, like with most backside tricks, I find that trying to look at my back foot after popping generally helps me get my shoulders aligned properly.

[close]

For the lazy, text in bold is an important distinction I will work on. Trying to ollie up above the ledge and pointing my toe down feels overly complicated and gets the weight distribution all weird.

Managed to land 2-3 of them yesterday, couple of sloppy non-dipped ones. Definitely easier once you have BS Tailslides since the pushing motion of the back foot is very similar. Much like the Tailslides, I think the key is to pop low and avoid dragging too high. I used to think of them as:
1) Ollie
2) Get the nose up
3) Lock the back truck in
4) Point the nose down

But like @tzhangdox said its much more like slotting your back truck into the side of the ledge as opposed to ollie up and poke down. The practice ledge I've been trying it on feels too low, I'll see if I get more success over the weekend on a taller ledge.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on November 10, 2020, 08:30:24 PM
Gave them another go yesterday after dealing with some gear madness. Managed to get a nice lock in and slide with coming out regular but the ledge at my park had a huge screw sticking our the end which was fucking with my slide.

I found that looking under my left arm (I'm regular) helped me control the slide so my board didn't want to automatically come out to Fakie. I could actually look at how I was sliding. I think when people say look back as you slide: ideally you want to look over your shoulder, but for me I'm able to make it work looking under my arm below my bicep.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: NG on November 11, 2020, 07:28:10 AM
okay this is a big one for me--actually got them to slide today but keep doing this weird one footed thing. Thoughts? I think i just need to go faster...but stoked! Thought back tails were a never gonna happen trick for me.

https://vimeo.com/478060274
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on November 11, 2020, 08:19:42 AM
okay this is a big one for me--actually got them to slide today but keep doing this weird one footed thing. Thoughts? I think i just need to go faster...but stoked! Thought back tails were a never gonna happen trick for me.

https://vimeo.com/478060274

Shit is looking good my dude, if you notice the slide it looks a little choppy and uneven. I would saw go a little more wax especially on the sides, then increase speed accordingly.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Skibb on November 21, 2020, 10:12:47 PM
okay this is a big one for me--actually got them to slide today but keep doing this weird one footed thing. Thoughts? I think i just need to go faster...but stoked! Thought back tails were a never gonna happen trick for me.

https://vimeo.com/478060274

Yeah bud! And nice shoes as well. Pop into and landing onto all looks solid. Keep the slide a bit more under control by having your knees a bit more bent when sliding. Think of the difference between doing a bs powerslide with your knees straight vs. slightly bent - much easier.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: tzhangdox on November 21, 2020, 11:01:04 PM
okay this is a big one for me--actually got them to slide today but keep doing this weird one footed thing. Thoughts? I think i just need to go faster...but stoked! Thought back tails were a never gonna happen trick for me.

https://vimeo.com/478060274

You need to turn about 10 degrees more, but other than that looks good
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: NG on November 23, 2020, 06:57:41 AM
Thanks for the advice and kind words yall. Today was a breakthru--managed to land two of them on a 10" ledge to forward. Continuous slide and they felt awesome! Beyond stoked. I had a session two days ago where I wasn't even getting into them but today it just clicked.

Things that helped:


Appreciate yall and this thread for keeping the motivation up!
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: sexualhelon on November 27, 2020, 02:28:12 PM
I'd echo  what some other people have said in that in the beginning thinking of it like I was just doing a BS 180 but tapping my tail on the ledge helped. This is probably a super weird one, but I think doing a shove out is easier than just back tailing. I'm usually pretty light footed so I'd always stick but doing quick back tail shoves helped me figure out the weight distribution. Doing a shove out forced me to really put my weight on it.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on November 29, 2020, 09:30:53 PM
My buddy just learned them, 1/2 the battle was building up the nerve to pop up high enough and slide blind side. Rather than think about "the nudge" he thinks about approaching them as a kickflip back tail. Makes zero sense to me but he's got a superb kickflip, guess it helps him get up and on top of the ledge.

Spent my morning trying to get 1 where I exit regular, have them coming out fakie pretty consistent. Only came close on 2 attempts out of 30. I figures that if my shoulders are parallel to the ledge when I slide, I get the look-back steeze and exiting regular comes more naturally. If I'm looking down at my feet and have my shoulders perpendicular to the ledge I naturally want to come out fakie, or I stick.

Led me to thinking about how this trick involves both upper and lower body control, sort of like disconnecting the hip (lower body) from the head and shoulders (upper body). Lower body (hips / legs) control the rotation and getting the weight on top of the board. The upper body (shoulders) maintains the momentum.

https://youtu.be/9dibBsXQBas?t=89
Hips and Nips, gotta keep it sexy. If not I don't eat.
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: rocklobster on December 01, 2020, 07:35:46 AM
To come out to forward, while I am sliding (I am regular) my board is in the bottom right of my vision and I am looking in front of me to spot the landing. I also find that having my front arm down helps me look over my shoulder. Hopefully this helps a bit with holding it and coming out to forward, it took me a long time to understand this trick but man it’s a fun one!

There was another post near the top about locking the weight in from the hips and not just the toes, I'll try that along with easing off the pressure closer to the exit.

Filmed a couple more last weekend, want to get them consist on coming out regular:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CIQkcDYhNnL/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: NG on December 13, 2020, 07:33:12 AM
^^^2nded on the back Smith thread. Started trying those today and felt verrrry far from possible. Here's where I'm at with bsts-coming out regular off the end of the ledge but leaning super far on my heels. Maybe need to start the slide earlier on the ledge so I have some more time to adjust? Hmmm.

https://vimeo.com/490418681
Title: Re: Backside Tailslide - help with (arguably) the best looking slide trick
Post by: Sarrah on December 16, 2020, 03:10:04 AM
For all skateboarding tricks and tips visit these two posts -
http://switchmagazine.com/beginner-skateboard-tricks/
http://switchmagazine.com/advanced-skateboarding-tricks-step-by-step-guide-and-photos-to-make-skate-tricks-easy/
The writer has marvellously categorised all the tricks with photos and gifs.
These are like mini bibles.
Enjoy