front foot impossible?
Tell us moreExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.
Expand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.
Expand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
Reynolds wanted vans and he got vans, you’re out of Touch If you think any company in skating would not be grovelling to sign Reynolds, not to mention he has mentioned many times the half cab is his favourite shoe and made a few vans esq shoes at Emerica.
Do you have any reasoning behind your adidas theory?
double pits to chesty
it’s freestyle so it very well might be just a ollie with a ballet kick of some sort
That was his "signature trick".
It was an ollie with the back foot kicked back.
His board graphic actually was a stick figure doing the trick!
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
Reynolds wanted vans and he got vans, you’re out of Touch If you think any company in skating would not be grovelling to sign Reynolds, not to mention he has mentioned many times the half cab is his favourite shoe and made a few vans esq shoes at Emerica.
Do you have any reasoning behind your adidas theory?[close]
Heard from Euro tm Adidas wanted him after stay gold but he said no. And being corporate as adidas, if you say no once is no forever no matter how legendary you are.
Pretty sick that etnies is running an ad of the owner wear vision streetwear shoes and sweat pants. It's like hey were etnies, we're still here. Nobody wears our shoes. Not our riders, not even our owner, but hey were here.Honestly, you have a point there. If you believe in your brand, wouldn't you support it too? It's like owning a board company but not skating it yourself (probably riding an anti hero deck instead). But wonder what's with the vision gear and not the ones he owns.
Pretty sick that etnies is running an ad of the owner wear vision streetwear shoes and sweat pants. It's like hey were etnies, we're still here. Nobody wears our shoes. Not our riders, not even our owner, but hey were here.
Expand QuotePretty sick that etnies is running an ad of the owner wear vision streetwear shoes and sweat pants. It's like hey were etnies, we're still here. Nobody wears our shoes. Not our riders, not even our owner, but hey were here.[close]
that pic is 35 years old, that's the point. Etnies did not do clothes at the time....
I remember trying those one-footed ollies of his on my street deck. Pierre-Andre was the first French pro I ever heard of. Dude came to California to sleep in a van, place just behind Rodney in freestyle contests and build a footwear brand that's still around decades later. He got my respect for sure.
Edit: just remembered why I liked him....I did this contest at Trocadero (Paris) when I was 12 and me and Pierre-Andre collided on the flat rail. And he apologized! I always thought a well-known pro apologizing to a kid was rad.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
Reynolds wanted vans and he got vans, you’re out of Touch If you think any company in skating would not be grovelling to sign Reynolds, not to mention he has mentioned many times the half cab is his favourite shoe and made a few vans esq shoes at Emerica.
Do you have any reasoning behind your adidas theory?[close]
Heard from Euro tm Adidas wanted him after stay gold but he said no. And being corporate as adidas, if you say no once is no forever no matter how legendary you are.[close]
Maybe they exchange happened but that’s 100% not how big corporations work. If they think that you can make them money, they will keep the door open for you as long as they feel you’ll make them money.
Expand QuoteExpand QuotePretty sick that etnies is running an ad of the owner wear vision streetwear shoes and sweat pants. It's like hey were etnies, we're still here. Nobody wears our shoes. Not our riders, not even our owner, but hey were here.[close]
that pic is 35 years old, that's the point. Etnies did not do clothes at the time....
I remember trying those one-footed ollies of his on my street deck. Pierre-Andre was the first French pro I ever heard of. Dude came to California to sleep in a van, place just behind Rodney in freestyle contests and build a footwear brand that's still around decades later. He got my respect for sure.
Edit: just remembered why I liked him....I did this contest at Trocadero (Paris) when I was 12 and me and Pierre-Andre collided on the flat rail. And he apologized! I always thought a well-known pro apologizing to a kid was rad.[close]
@OldieButFrenchie I was only kidding, but at the same time is there no iconic photos of Pierre Andre doing his signature one footed ollies in Etnies that would be more appropriate as an ad for the company? Either way, that's nice that he apologized to you. I find manners to be important.
I always thought it was sick that in one of those On Videos theres a segment on this emerica tour and Marc Johnson is in it skating in nike cortez lol
He's definitely styling on you
Pretty sick that etnies is running an ad of the owner wear vision streetwear shoes and sweat pants. It's like hey were etnies, we're still here. Nobody wears our shoes. Not our riders, not even our owner, but hey were here.I skate Etnies at the moment. I don´t have any complains. Good shoes.
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership
Expand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.
If that's his "special" during his youth, I am 100% sure he wears a cock ring now.
Expand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.
Ollie SouthExpand QuoteI hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership[close]
AskSorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.how that worked out...
As for the photo, it's an ollie one-foot, with the back foot coming off. Pierre's signature trick.
You can see it in motion at 2:21:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RVsUd6DZ_0&t=2m21s
Expand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.
As steve Olson would say- “they owe”Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?[close]
Naivete huh? Your logic is sophomoric. The difference being that Koston and Andrew were both decades-long riders who were part of brand evolution and made eS and Emerica/Altamont what they were. Making Sole and Pierre hundreds of millions of dollars. Offering them a small percentage of the brands as a token of appreciation and a means to keep them there, engaged and happy, along with the brands growing, instead of dying like they have ... would have been courteous, logical and very smart. Their presence also would have kept other key riders in place (go look who left eS right after Koston did and the Emerica exodus around the time of Supra and Krew forming) and helped them acquire better new up-and-coming riders as well. Not to mention, likely better shoe and apparel design. Everyone wins. But Pierre chose ego or greed or made the wrong decisions or whatever in this and many other instances and well, you've watched what's unfolded for the last 15 years.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?[close]
Naivete huh? Your logic is sophomoric. The difference being that Koston and Andrew were both decades-long riders who were part of brand evolution and made eS and Emerica/Altamont what they were. Making Sole and Pierre hundreds of millions of dollars. Offering them a small percentage of the brands as a token of appreciation and a means to keep them there, engaged and happy, along with the brands growing, instead of dying like they have ... would have been courteous, logical and very smart. Their presence also would have kept other key riders in place (go look who left eS right after Koston did and the Emerica exodus around the time of Supra and Krew forming) and helped them acquire better new up-and-coming riders as well. Not to mention, likely better shoe and apparel design. Everyone wins. But Pierre chose ego or greed or made the wrong decisions or whatever in this and many other instances and well, you've watched what's unfolded for the last 15 years.[close]
Sorry man, your understanding of business is so misguided and you’re just regurgitating rumours. No point in explaining things to you.[close]
The funny part is, I was there for 15 years. So why don’t you try “explaining” what I don’t know to me, business mogul. And while you’re at it tell me what “rumors” I am “regurgitating”.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?[close]
Naivete huh? Your logic is sophomoric. The difference being that Koston and Andrew were both decades-long riders who were part of brand evolution and made eS and Emerica/Altamont what they were. Making Sole and Pierre hundreds of millions of dollars. Offering them a small percentage of the brands as a token of appreciation and a means to keep them there, engaged and happy, along with the brands growing, instead of dying like they have ... would have been courteous, logical and very smart. Their presence also would have kept other key riders in place (go look who left eS right after Koston did and the Emerica exodus around the time of Supra and Krew forming) and helped them acquire better new up-and-coming riders as well. Not to mention, likely better shoe and apparel design. Everyone wins. But Pierre chose ego or greed or made the wrong decisions or whatever in this and many other instances and well, you've watched what's unfolded for the last 15 years.[close]
Sorry man, your understanding of business is so misguided and you’re just regurgitating rumours. No point in explaining things to you.[close]
The funny part is, I was there for 15 years. So why don’t you try “explaining” what I don’t know to me, business mogul. And while you’re at it tell me what “rumors” I am “regurgitating”.[close]
Wait - you worked at Sole Tech for 15 years and somehow still feel this way? I guess if you worked there for 15 years you must know Koston was only on for less than 10 years, not “decades”. Would you give away partial ownership to an ageing pro who’s only been with your brand a handful of years? That’s some serious trust/generosity.
The rumours I speak of is the claim that both people left due to being rejected on ownership requests. If you have proof, let’s see it. I’ll gladly accept I’m wrong if I’ve missed something.[close]
Feel what way? Just sharing because that’s what so many people so often claim they want here ... real info. Felt it might add to the discussion. But when it happens its just met with insults and attacks. I’ve seen it with industry dudes here for years. I was approximating their time on the brands because Eric was with etnies for many years as well. And again, the two most valuable riders in the history of the company were Eric and Andrew ... Shecks too. Yes, offering them even a percent of their respective brands (which are all now dying) could have been a good move. Certainly couldn’t have made things worse considering the current state of affairs there. It’s working in many instances all ofer the industry, as is the example that if you don’t appreciate your riders they leave often and start their own thing.
Beginning to think that forum clout and the desire to argue and attack and seeming the most “skate knowledgeable” far supersedes the actual desire for truth here. You don’t have to believe it. But to immediately shoot it down as if you might know more than I and not even consider it, is funny. You believe plenty of other things without hard proof this has been industry knowledge for ages (so now we know you are less knowledgable than you make out to be). Sorry dude, I don’t have transcriptions of their meetings or copies of theor resignation letters, nor could they be posted here anyway. so tell us what happened then ... since you understand business so well and others here don’t.
Either way. Don’t believe it if you don’t want. Some people here might appreciate the insight. Shalom to them.
Lol on you not even knowing Koston’s timeline but then trying to harsh me for it. Guess we are seeing where you are at. At least you admitted it.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?[close]
Naivete huh? Your logic is sophomoric. The difference being that Koston and Andrew were both decades-long riders who were part of brand evolution and made eS and Emerica/Altamont what they were. Making Sole and Pierre hundreds of millions of dollars. Offering them a small percentage of the brands as a token of appreciation and a means to keep them there, engaged and happy, along with the brands growing, instead of dying like they have ... would have been courteous, logical and very smart. Their presence also would have kept other key riders in place (go look who left eS right after Koston did and the Emerica exodus around the time of Supra and Krew forming) and helped them acquire better new up-and-coming riders as well. Not to mention, likely better shoe and apparel design. Everyone wins. But Pierre chose ego or greed or made the wrong decisions or whatever in this and many other instances and well, you've watched what's unfolded for the last 15 years.[close]
Sorry man, your understanding of business is so misguided and you’re just regurgitating rumours. No point in explaining things to you.[close]
The funny part is, I was there for 15 years. So why don’t you try “explaining” what I don’t know to me, business mogul. And while you’re at it tell me what “rumors” I am “regurgitating”.[close]
Wait - you worked at Sole Tech for 15 years and somehow still feel this way? I guess if you worked there for 15 years you must know Koston was only on for less than 10 years, not “decades”. Would you give away partial ownership to an ageing pro who’s only been with your brand a handful of years? That’s some serious trust/generosity.
The rumours I speak of is the claim that both people left due to being rejected on ownership requests. If you have proof, let’s see it. I’ll gladly accept I’m wrong if I’ve missed something.[close]
Feel what way? Just sharing because that’s what so many people so often claim they want here ... real info. Felt it might add to the discussion. But when it happens its just met with insults and attacks. I’ve seen it with industry dudes here for years. I was approximating their time on the brands because Eric was with etnies for many years as well. And again, the two most valuable riders in the history of the company were Eric and Andrew ... Shecks too. Yes, offering them even a percent of their respective brands (which are all now dying) could have been a good move. Certainly couldn’t have made things worse considering the current state of affairs there. It’s working in many instances all ofer the industry, as is the example that if you don’t appreciate your riders they leave often and start their own thing.
Beginning to think that forum clout and the desire to argue and attack and seeming the most “skate knowledgeable” far supersedes the actual desire for truth here. You don’t have to believe it. But to immediately shoot it down as if you might know more than I and not even consider it, is funny. You believe plenty of other things without hard proof this has been industry knowledge for ages (so now we know you are less knowledgable than you make out to be). Sorry dude, I don’t have transcriptions of their meetings or copies of theor resignation letters, nor could they be posted here anyway. so tell us what happened then ... since you understand business so well and others here don’t.
Either way. Don’t believe it if you don’t want. Some people here might appreciate the insight. Shalom to them.
Lol on you not even knowing Koston’s timeline but then trying to harsh me for it. Guess we are seeing where you are at. At least you admitted it.[close]
There’s other instances of riders being given partial ownership of a brand? Who?
Yup, got my Koston timeline wrong cause I thought the move to Lakai was earlier, accepted my mistake there and removed the previous comment. Like I said, I have no problem at all accepting I’m wrong about something.
If you worked there then yeah, I’d love to hear insight. But more so I’m curious of specific examples of other shoe brands offering riders partial ownership. Let’s hear those examples![close]
I didn’t say shoe brands. I said brands. There are plenty of brands that pros co-own or have co-owned with partners. If I have to give you a list then you have some homework to do.
Also just gave you plenty of insight and clearly you don’t love to hear it. Don’t need to sit here and prove anything to you. Just don’t understand the reaction here when someone tries to share what so many of you claim you want.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?[close]
Naivete huh? Your logic is sophomoric. The difference being that Koston and Andrew were both decades-long riders who were part of brand evolution and made eS and Emerica/Altamont what they were. Making Sole and Pierre hundreds of millions of dollars. Offering them a small percentage of the brands as a token of appreciation and a means to keep them there, engaged and happy, along with the brands growing, instead of dying like they have ... would have been courteous, logical and very smart. Their presence also would have kept other key riders in place (go look who left eS right after Koston did and the Emerica exodus around the time of Supra and Krew forming) and helped them acquire better new up-and-coming riders as well. Not to mention, likely better shoe and apparel design. Everyone wins. But Pierre chose ego or greed or made the wrong decisions or whatever in this and many other instances and well, you've watched what's unfolded for the last 15 years.[close]
Sorry man, your understanding of business is so misguided and you’re just regurgitating rumours. No point in explaining things to you.[close]
The funny part is, I was there for 15 years. So why don’t you try “explaining” what I don’t know to me, business mogul. And while you’re at it tell me what “rumors” I am “regurgitating”.[close]
Wait - you worked at Sole Tech for 15 years and somehow still feel this way? I guess if you worked there for 15 years you must know Koston was only on for less than 10 years, not “decades”. Would you give away partial ownership to an ageing pro who’s only been with your brand a handful of years? That’s some serious trust/generosity.
The rumours I speak of is the claim that both people left due to being rejected on ownership requests. If you have proof, let’s see it. I’ll gladly accept I’m wrong if I’ve missed something.[close]
Feel what way? Just sharing because that’s what so many people so often claim they want here ... real info. Felt it might add to the discussion. But when it happens its just met with insults and attacks. I’ve seen it with industry dudes here for years. I was approximating their time on the brands because Eric was with etnies for many years as well. And again, the two most valuable riders in the history of the company were Eric and Andrew ... Shecks too. Yes, offering them even a percent of their respective brands (which are all now dying) could have been a good move. Certainly couldn’t have made things worse considering the current state of affairs there. It’s working in many instances all ofer the industry, as is the example that if you don’t appreciate your riders they leave often and start their own thing.
Beginning to think that forum clout and the desire to argue and attack and seeming the most “skate knowledgeable” far supersedes the actual desire for truth here. You don’t have to believe it. But to immediately shoot it down as if you might know more than I and not even consider it, is funny. You believe plenty of other things without hard proof this has been industry knowledge for ages (so now we know you are less knowledgable than you make out to be). Sorry dude, I don’t have transcriptions of their meetings or copies of theor resignation letters, nor could they be posted here anyway. so tell us what happened then ... since you understand business so well and others here don’t.
Either way. Don’t believe it if you don’t want. Some people here might appreciate the insight. Shalom to them.
Lol on you not even knowing Koston’s timeline but then trying to harsh me for it. Guess we are seeing where you are at. At least you admitted it.[close]
There’s other instances of riders being given partial ownership of a brand? Who?
Yup, got my Koston timeline wrong cause I thought the move to Lakai was earlier, accepted my mistake there and removed the previous comment. Like I said, I have no problem at all accepting I’m wrong about something.
If you worked there then yeah, I’d love to hear insight. But more so I’m curious of specific examples of other shoe brands offering riders partial ownership. Let’s hear those examples![close]
I didn’t say shoe brands. I said brands. There are plenty of brands that pros co-own or have co-owned with partners. If I have to give you a list then you have some homework to do.
Also just gave you plenty of insight and clearly you don’t love to hear it. Don’t need to sit here and prove anything to you. Just don’t understand the reaction here when someone tries to share what so many of you claim you want.[close]
Ok. A skater partnering with someone to start a board brand and a team rider for a shoe brand being offered partial ownership are completely different things. Not even remotely the same. C’mon now. If you can point to an established rider being offered part ownership of a brand, then that’s a start. Multiple instances would establish more of a precedent.
Honestly thought you were a kid talking out of your ass cause there’s a lot of that on here. Sorry for the mischaracterization. We may disagree on the subject of giving away brand ownership, but I’m not trying to out knowledge you or anything.[close]
There ya go. Way better than a knee-jerk verbal assault. Congrats. And the fact that more than one person is here saying the same thing might also be something to consider regarding these “rumors” .
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?[close]
Naivete huh? Your logic is sophomoric. The difference being that Koston and Andrew were both decades-long riders who were part of brand evolution and made eS and Emerica/Altamont what they were. Making Sole and Pierre hundreds of millions of dollars. Offering them a small percentage of the brands as a token of appreciation and a means to keep them there, engaged and happy, along with the brands growing, instead of dying like they have ... would have been courteous, logical and very smart. Their presence also would have kept other key riders in place (go look who left eS right after Koston did and the Emerica exodus around the time of Supra and Krew forming) and helped them acquire better new up-and-coming riders as well. Not to mention, likely better shoe and apparel design. Everyone wins. But Pierre chose ego or greed or made the wrong decisions or whatever in this and many other instances and well, you've watched what's unfolded for the last 15 years.[close]
Sorry man, your understanding of business is so misguided and you’re just regurgitating rumours. No point in explaining things to you.[close]
The funny part is, I was there for 15 years. So why don’t you try “explaining” what I don’t know to me, business mogul. And while you’re at it tell me what “rumors” I am “regurgitating”.[close]
Wait - you worked at Sole Tech for 15 years and somehow still feel this way? I guess if you worked there for 15 years you must know Koston was only on for less than 10 years, not “decades”. Would you give away partial ownership to an ageing pro who’s only been with your brand a handful of years? That’s some serious trust/generosity.
The rumours I speak of is the claim that both people left due to being rejected on ownership requests. If you have proof, let’s see it. I’ll gladly accept I’m wrong if I’ve missed something.[close]
Feel what way? Just sharing because that’s what so many people so often claim they want here ... real info. Felt it might add to the discussion. But when it happens its just met with insults and attacks. I’ve seen it with industry dudes here for years. I was approximating their time on the brands because Eric was with etnies for many years as well. And again, the two most valuable riders in the history of the company were Eric and Andrew ... Shecks too. Yes, offering them even a percent of their respective brands (which are all now dying) could have been a good move. Certainly couldn’t have made things worse considering the current state of affairs there. It’s working in many instances all ofer the industry, as is the example that if you don’t appreciate your riders they leave often and start their own thing.
Beginning to think that forum clout and the desire to argue and attack and seeming the most “skate knowledgeable” far supersedes the actual desire for truth here. You don’t have to believe it. But to immediately shoot it down as if you might know more than I and not even consider it, is funny. You believe plenty of other things without hard proof this has been industry knowledge for ages (so now we know you are less knowledgable than you make out to be). Sorry dude, I don’t have transcriptions of their meetings or copies of theor resignation letters, nor could they be posted here anyway. so tell us what happened then ... since you understand business so well and others here don’t.
Either way. Don’t believe it if you don’t want. Some people here might appreciate the insight. Shalom to them.
Lol on you not even knowing Koston’s timeline but then trying to harsh me for it. Guess we are seeing where you are at. At least you admitted it.[close]
There’s other instances of riders being given partial ownership of a brand? Who?
Yup, got my Koston timeline wrong cause I thought the move to Lakai was earlier, accepted my mistake there and removed the previous comment. Like I said, I have no problem at all accepting I’m wrong about something.
If you worked there then yeah, I’d love to hear insight. But more so I’m curious of specific examples of other shoe brands offering riders partial ownership. Let’s hear those examples![close]
I didn’t say shoe brands. I said brands. There are plenty of brands that pros co-own or have co-owned with partners. If I have to give you a list then you have some homework to do.
Also just gave you plenty of insight and clearly you don’t love to hear it. Don’t need to sit here and prove anything to you. Just don’t understand the reaction here when someone tries to share what so many of you claim you want.[close]
Ok. A skater partnering with someone to start a board brand and a team rider for a shoe brand being offered partial ownership are completely different things. Not even remotely the same. C’mon now. If you can point to an established rider being offered part ownership of a brand, then that’s a start. Multiple instances would establish more of a precedent.
Honestly thought you were a kid talking out of your ass cause there’s a lot of that on here. Sorry for the mischaracterization. We may disagree on the subject of giving away brand ownership, but I’m not trying to out knowledge you or anything.[close]
There ya go. Way better than a knee-jerk verbal assault. Congrats. And the fact that more than one person is here saying the same thing might also be something to consider regarding these “rumors” .[close]
You worked there - are the rumours true or not? They have only been rumours to my knowledge, I don’t recall ever seeing any sort of confirmation which is why I still refer to them as rumours. An employee confirming that both Eric and drew left due to being denied ownership would put an end to that debate. My point was more about that sort of offer being out of the ordinary and short sighted, though I understand the thinking behind it. I guess I just don’t agree it’s a good idea because it doesn’t guarantee anyone will stick around, and creates a huge headache if they do leave. Imagine trying to figure out how to get that partial ownership back that you gave away for free?[close]
You don’t understand why ownership / equity would keep someone around? More than just a contract and a salary? Which, by the way, is allegedly what was enforced to keep Andrew from dipping to adidas during Away Days launch time, the same time mind you, thay they began hooking up his daughter. How can you say that then be attacking others on their knowledge of business. Speaking of business, have yo uever considered that actual proof might be protected under NDAs and not speakable? Not only for riders but staff, ex staff and so on?
What’s this business knowledge and experience you have again?
Expand QuoteIf that's his "special" during his youth, I am 100% sure he wears a cock ring now.[close]
He's French, I can see it.
Just a ring on the cock, or the one that gets both your dick and nuts? I never understood what they are needed for...
Expand QuoteHonestly, pizzaandfries, if you had prefaced your original comment with "I worked there for 15 years...", this all would have gone completely different. ;)[close]
Shouldn’t need to in order for you to not come in all hot on attack mode ... hahah
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteHonestly, pizzaandfries, if you had prefaced your original comment with "I worked there for 15 years...", this all would have gone completely different. ;)[close]
Shouldn’t need to in order for you to not come in all hot on attack mode ... hahah[close]
It makes a huge difference in a place like this where the anonymity makes it hard to discern shitposting trolls from people with experience to back up their opinions/posts. I did come in like a sarcastic bitch though - I've been worn down by Slap, haha.
Have to agree having the shot of Pierre in Vision Street Wear shoes as the main image in that timeline is a huge bunt. Why on earth would they do that?!
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?[close]
Naivete huh? Your logic is sophomoric. The difference being that Koston and Andrew were both decades-long riders who were part of brand evolution and made eS and Emerica/Altamont what they were. Making Sole and Pierre hundreds of millions of dollars. Offering them a small percentage of the brands as a token of appreciation and a means to keep them there, engaged and happy, along with the brands growing, instead of dying like they have ... would have been courteous, logical and very smart. Their presence also would have kept other key riders in place (go look who left eS right after Koston did and the Emerica exodus around the time of Supra and Krew forming) and helped them acquire better new up-and-coming riders as well. Not to mention, likely better shoe and apparel design. Everyone wins. But Pierre chose ego or greed or made the wrong decisions or whatever in this and many other instances and well, you've watched what's unfolded for the last 15 years.[close]
Sorry man, your understanding of business is so misguided and you’re just regurgitating rumours. No point in explaining things to you.[close]
The funny part is, I was there for 15 years. So why don’t you try “explaining” what I don’t know to me, business mogul. And while you’re at it tell me what “rumors” I am “regurgitating”.[close]
Wait - you worked at Sole Tech for 15 years and somehow still feel this way? I guess if you worked there for 15 years you must know Koston was only on for less than 10 years, not “decades”. Would you give away partial ownership to an ageing pro who’s only been with your brand a handful of years? That’s some serious trust/generosity.
The rumours I speak of is the claim that both people left due to being rejected on ownership requests. If you have proof, let’s see it. I’ll gladly accept I’m wrong if I’ve missed something.[close]
Feel what way? Just sharing because that’s what so many people so often claim they want here ... real info. Felt it might add to the discussion. But when it happens its just met with insults and attacks. I’ve seen it with industry dudes here for years. I was approximating their time on the brands because Eric was with etnies for many years as well. And again, the two most valuable riders in the history of the company were Eric and Andrew ... Shecks too. Yes, offering them even a percent of their respective brands (which are all now dying) could have been a good move. Certainly couldn’t have made things worse considering the current state of affairs there. It’s working in many instances all ofer the industry, as is the example that if you don’t appreciate your riders they leave often and start their own thing.
Beginning to think that forum clout and the desire to argue and attack and seeming the most “skate knowledgeable” far supersedes the actual desire for truth here. You don’t have to believe it. But to immediately shoot it down as if you might know more than I and not even consider it, is funny. You believe plenty of other things without hard proof this has been industry knowledge for ages (so now we know you are less knowledgable than you make out to be). Sorry dude, I don’t have transcriptions of their meetings or copies of theor resignation letters, nor could they be posted here anyway. so tell us what happened then ... since you understand business so well and others here don’t.
Either way. Don’t believe it if you don’t want. Some people here might appreciate the insight. Shalom to them.
Lol on you not even knowing Koston’s timeline but then trying to harsh me for it. Guess we are seeing where you are at. At least you admitted it.[close]
There’s other instances of riders being given partial ownership of a brand? Who?
Yup, got my Koston timeline wrong cause I thought the move to Lakai was earlier, accepted my mistake there and removed the previous comment. Like I said, I have no problem at all accepting I’m wrong about something.
If you worked there then yeah, I’d love to hear insight. But more so I’m curious of specific examples of other shoe brands offering riders partial ownership. Let’s hear those examples![close]
I didn’t say shoe brands. I said brands. There are plenty of brands that pros co-own or have co-owned with partners. If I have to give you a list then you have some homework to do.
Also just gave you plenty of insight and clearly you don’t love to hear it. Don’t need to sit here and prove anything to you. Just don’t understand the reaction here when someone tries to share what so many of you claim you want.[close]
Ok. A skater partnering with someone to start a board brand and a team rider for a shoe brand being offered partial ownership are completely different things. Not even remotely the same. C’mon now. If you can point to an established rider being offered part ownership of a brand, then that’s a start. Multiple instances would establish more of a precedent.
Honestly thought you were a kid talking out of your ass cause there’s a lot of that on here. Sorry for the mischaracterization. We may disagree on the subject of giving away brand ownership, but I’m not trying to out knowledge you or anything.[close]
There ya go. Way better than a knee-jerk verbal assault. Congrats. And the fact that more than one person is here saying the same thing might also be something to consider regarding these “rumors” .[close]
You worked there - are the rumours true or not? They have only been rumours to my knowledge, I don’t recall ever seeing any sort of confirmation which is why I still refer to them as rumours. An employee confirming that both Eric and drew left due to being denied ownership would put an end to that debate. My point was more about that sort of offer being out of the ordinary and short sighted, though I understand the thinking behind it. I guess I just don’t agree it’s a good idea because it doesn’t guarantee anyone will stick around, and creates a huge headache if they do leave. Imagine trying to figure out how to get that partial ownership back that you gave away for free?
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quotefront foot impossible?[close]
I hate this guy because he denied koston es ownership and Reynolds emerica ownership, can’t get behind anything he or his companies do. Then again koston in Nike is tight but I think Reynolds missed an Adidas contract by stating loyal to emerica.[close]
All true. And those are only the “high profile” stories that have leaked to the public. There are countless stories of shadiness and other riders getting absolutely fucked over. Koston also wanted to start an apparel brand(think 4 star) through sole way back and got denied. The amount they preach against “corporate” footwear brands then shit all over skateboarders is unfathomable. Been happening for decades. Their demise is well earned. And the point made about the Vision gear is also amazing. Bravo.
Also now that we’ve entered the new year and continued financial hardship, keep an eye on who disappears from the rosters and how “down for skateboarders” they are.[close]
The level of naivete in both of these statements is staggeringly cute. Almost responded seriously before remembering half the posters on here are children who would put their trucks on backwards if the shop didn't put their board together for them. Imagine thinking that a company is somehow required to give away partial ownership to one of their employees... lol.
Thank god Koston is now part owner of Nike with a signature clothing brand and Reynolds owns part of Vans, huh?[close]
Naivete huh? Your logic is sophomoric. The difference being that Koston and Andrew were both decades-long riders who were part of brand evolution and made eS and Emerica/Altamont what they were. Making Sole and Pierre hundreds of millions of dollars. Offering them a small percentage of the brands as a token of appreciation and a means to keep them there, engaged and happy, along with the brands growing, instead of dying like they have ... would have been courteous, logical and very smart. Their presence also would have kept other key riders in place (go look who left eS right after Koston did and the Emerica exodus around the time of Supra and Krew forming) and helped them acquire better new up-and-coming riders as well. Not to mention, likely better shoe and apparel design. Everyone wins. But Pierre chose ego or greed or made the wrong decisions or whatever in this and many other instances and well, you've watched what's unfolded for the last 15 years.[close]
Sorry man, your understanding of business is so misguided and you’re just regurgitating rumours. No point in explaining things to you.[close]
The funny part is, I was there for 15 years. So why don’t you try “explaining” what I don’t know to me, business mogul. And while you’re at it tell me what “rumors” I am “regurgitating”.[close]
Wait - you worked at Sole Tech for 15 years and somehow still feel this way? I guess if you worked there for 15 years you must know Koston was only on for less than 10 years, not “decades”. Would you give away partial ownership to an ageing pro who’s only been with your brand a handful of years? That’s some serious trust/generosity.
The rumours I speak of is the claim that both people left due to being rejected on ownership requests. If you have proof, let’s see it. I’ll gladly accept I’m wrong if I’ve missed something.[close]
Feel what way? Just sharing because that’s what so many people so often claim they want here ... real info. Felt it might add to the discussion. But when it happens its just met with insults and attacks. I’ve seen it with industry dudes here for years. I was approximating their time on the brands because Eric was with etnies for many years as well. And again, the two most valuable riders in the history of the company were Eric and Andrew ... Shecks too. Yes, offering them even a percent of their respective brands (which are all now dying) could have been a good move. Certainly couldn’t have made things worse considering the current state of affairs there. It’s working in many instances all ofer the industry, as is the example that if you don’t appreciate your riders they leave often and start their own thing.
Beginning to think that forum clout and the desire to argue and attack and seeming the most “skate knowledgeable” far supersedes the actual desire for truth here. You don’t have to believe it. But to immediately shoot it down as if you might know more than I and not even consider it, is funny. You believe plenty of other things without hard proof this has been industry knowledge for ages (so now we know you are less knowledgable than you make out to be). Sorry dude, I don’t have transcriptions of their meetings or copies of theor resignation letters, nor could they be posted here anyway. so tell us what happened then ... since you understand business so well and others here don’t.
Either way. Don’t believe it if you don’t want. Some people here might appreciate the insight. Shalom to them.
Lol on you not even knowing Koston’s timeline but then trying to harsh me for it. Guess we are seeing where you are at. At least you admitted it.[close]
There’s other instances of riders being given partial ownership of a brand? Who?
Yup, got my Koston timeline wrong cause I thought the move to Lakai was earlier, accepted my mistake there and removed the previous comment. Like I said, I have no problem at all accepting I’m wrong about something.
If you worked there then yeah, I’d love to hear insight. But more so I’m curious of specific examples of other shoe brands offering riders partial ownership. Let’s hear those examples![close]
I didn’t say shoe brands. I said brands. There are plenty of brands that pros co-own or have co-owned with partners. If I have to give you a list then you have some homework to do.
Also just gave you plenty of insight and clearly you don’t love to hear it. Don’t need to sit here and prove anything to you. Just don’t understand the reaction here when someone tries to share what so many of you claim you want.[close]
Ok. A skater partnering with someone to start a board brand and a team rider for a shoe brand being offered partial ownership are completely different things. Not even remotely the same. C’mon now. If you can point to an established rider being offered part ownership of a brand, then that’s a start. Multiple instances would establish more of a precedent.
Honestly thought you were a kid talking out of your ass cause there’s a lot of that on here. Sorry for the mischaracterization. We may disagree on the subject of giving away brand ownership, but I’m not trying to out knowledge you or anything.[close]
There ya go. Way better than a knee-jerk verbal assault. Congrats. And the fact that more than one person is here saying the same thing might also be something to consider regarding these “rumors” .[close]
You worked there - are the rumours true or not? They have only been rumours to my knowledge, I don’t recall ever seeing any sort of confirmation which is why I still refer to them as rumours. An employee confirming that both Eric and drew left due to being denied ownership would put an end to that debate. My point was more about that sort of offer being out of the ordinary and short sighted, though I understand the thinking behind it. I guess I just don’t agree it’s a good idea because it doesn’t guarantee anyone will stick around, and creates a huge headache if they do leave. Imagine trying to figure out how to get that partial ownership back that you gave away for free?
My only two thoughts on this back and forth are this idea around what are 'good decisions'.
- didn't Lakai give Koston part ownership post éS? As has been pointed out in this thread already; giving away part ownership to a huge name and success are not mutually exclusive. So I am not sure this was particularly a bad decision.
- the mention of the exodus from Emerica around the time of Krew/Supra forming is kind of dodgy ground. Supra and Krew were always terrible. Only a couple of dudes left for that program and it seemed to be more based around Muska over any Emerica guys...And those brands barely lasted a decade of being "bad but acceptable" before turning into nothing.
No insider knowledge on this. Just going by info above.
I see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.
idk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.Expand QuoteI see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.[close]
This literally.
idk about Koston, but Reynolds is still widely loved and appreciated by the kidsidk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteI see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.[close]
This literally.[close]
Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.
(https://i.ibb.co/D49c7pg/1610455605009.png) (https://ibb.co/Tc4jHLq)
there's a bunch of pals here in that age group, and I've seen threads go down rabbit holes about obscure metal, thought I'd test the water. Also the current wave of jungle / breakbeat techno and rave inspired stuff has a lot of younger folks looking backwards.Expand Quote(https://i.ibb.co/D49c7pg/1610455605009.png) (https://ibb.co/Tc4jHLq)[close]
Not sure many people will get the moving shadow reference. Unless they were in to D&B in the UK in early/mid 90’s. Lol.
Expand Quote(https://i.ibb.co/D49c7pg/1610455605009.png) (https://ibb.co/Tc4jHLq)[close]
Not sure many people will get the moving shadow reference. Unless they were in to D&B in the UK in early/mid 90’s. Lol.
New ZealandExpand QuoteExpand Quote(https://i.ibb.co/D49c7pg/1610455605009.png) (https://ibb.co/Tc4jHLq)[close]
Not sure many people will get the moving shadow reference. Unless they were in to D&B in the UK in early/mid 90’s. Lol.[close]
Beat me to it.
You guys gotta be English ?
It should be noted that at one point Heath was TM at Emerica, and I can't imagine him working for a bunch of cooks. (Even though he quit later)
It should be noted that at one point Heath was TM at Emerica, and I can't imagine him working for a bunch of cooks. (Even though he quit later)
idk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteI see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.[close]
This literally.[close]
Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.
Expand Quoteidk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteI see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.[close]
This literally.[close]
Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.[close]
Fuck knows, but what's for sure is kids couldn't a spec of a damn about fuckin' Soletech. And I'm pretty sure that if younger skaters were privy to the fact Emerica or eS is owned by it they'd be pretty bummed also. I know my couple of emerica fan mates were when they realised it's affiliation with etnies.. In the Uk etnies is kinda some wasteman shopping centre brand shit.
It's sometimes weird coming on here, I forget how in real life a lot of people who skate don't actually delve into the background of things too deep, kinda wish I was naive to some of this bullshit too...
It's owned by Pierre Andre....not chef Pierre....I honestly hoped this thread would have unraveled into a Chef Pierre appreciation thread by now.
Reynolds left emerica because emerica did not want to renew his contract.
I honestly hoped this thread would have unraveled into a Chef Pierre appreciation thread by now.Expand QuoteIt's owned by Pierre Andre....not chef Pierre....[close]
Expand QuoteReynolds left emerica because emerica did not want to renew his contract.[close]
Your comments in this thread have been fairly agreeable.
I do disagree that Reynolds doesn't care about money. I worked for a clothing brand he was trying to get onto and the conversation was all about money - which is why he ended up at RVCA as they put the biggest salary on the table. That was what he was after. The fact that a brand would do fuck all to market him didn't matter. It was money and nothing more.
However, this bit I've quoted above is totally untrue.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteReynolds left emerica because emerica did not want to renew his contract.[close]
Your comments in this thread have been fairly agreeable.
I do disagree that Reynolds doesn't care about money. I worked for a clothing brand he was trying to get onto and the conversation was all about money - which is why he ended up at RVCA as they put the biggest salary on the table. That was what he was after. The fact that a brand would do fuck all to market him didn't matter. It was money and nothing more.
However, this bit I've quoted above is totally untrue.[close]
Not surprised as he probably has to rely mainly on shoes/clothing sponsor to bring food to his table.
Expand QuoteReynolds left emerica because emerica did not want to renew his contract.[close]
Your comments in this thread have been fairly agreeable.
I do disagree that Reynolds doesn't care about money. I worked for a clothing brand he was trying to get onto and the conversation was all about money - which is why he ended up at RVCA as they put the biggest salary on the table. That was what he was after. The fact that a brand would do fuck all to market him didn't matter. It was money and nothing more.
However, this bit I've quoted above is totally untrue.
Expand QuoteExpand Quoteidk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteI see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.[close]
This literally.[close]
Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.[close]
Fuck knows, but what's for sure is kids couldn't a spec of a damn about fuckin' Soletech. And I'm pretty sure that if younger skaters were privy to the fact Emerica or eS is owned by it they'd be pretty bummed also. I know my couple of emerica fan mates were when they realised it's affiliation with etnies.. In the Uk etnies is kinda some wasteman shopping centre brand shit.
It's sometimes weird coming on here, I forget how in real life a lot of people who skate don't actually delve into the background of things too deep, kinda wish I was naive to some of this bullshit too...[close]
Did the same kids just realize Nike SB is actually affiliated with Nike? Not cool Nike, the Nike your mom bought you from mega-chain-x as a kid. That weird Nike old people wear and so on.
Expand QuoteIt should be noted that at one point Heath was TM at Emerica, and I can't imagine him working for a bunch of cooks. (Even though he quit later)[close]
It's owned by Pierre Andre....not chef Pierre....
Expand QuoteReynolds left emerica because emerica did not want to renew his contract.[close]
Your comments in this thread have been fairly agreeable.
I do disagree that Reynolds doesn't care about money. I worked for a clothing brand he was trying to get onto and the conversation was all about money - which is why he ended up at RVCA as they put the biggest salary on the table. That was what he was after. The fact that a brand would do fuck all to market him didn't matter. It was money and nothing more.
Expand QuoteReynolds left emerica because emerica did not want to renew his contract.[close]
However, this bit I've quoted above is totally untrue.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quoteidk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteI see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.[close]
This literally.[close]
Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.[close]
Fuck knows, but what's for sure is kids couldn't a spec of a damn about fuckin' Soletech. And I'm pretty sure that if younger skaters were privy to the fact Emerica or eS is owned by it they'd be pretty bummed also. I know my couple of emerica fan mates were when they realised it's affiliation with etnies.. In the Uk etnies is kinda some wasteman shopping centre brand shit.
It's sometimes weird coming on here, I forget how in real life a lot of people who skate don't actually delve into the background of things too deep, kinda wish I was naive to some of this bullshit too...[close]
Did the same kids just realize Nike SB is actually affiliated with Nike? Not cool Nike, the Nike your mom bought you from mega-chain-x as a kid. That weird Nike old people wear and so on.[close]
If you spoke to a young person on which was cool, nike or etnies? I think you'd be sadly surprised man.
I just don't think 'skater owned' companies workout for new generations when said skater becomes totally irrelevant, there's no face, it's just another company, especially when you realise that an even bigger company owns all 3. Hence why people are saying if Koston or Reynolds had ownership over the 2 other brands it probably would have helped over the last decade... maybe? When the company seems like 'just another company' it's all down to marketing and guess who trumps that?
I think the world's moved on too much in the last decade for these boarderline-skaterowned/corpo cyborgs companies i.e soletech and lakai, there's a dwindling market for it now. No one gives a shit anymore unless you have the small business 'mindfulness' direction of better product, more ethically produced/sourced and backed by likeminded skaters, ie Last Resort, although some of those points are contested, it's still an attempt that people can get behind. The other 4 companies are offering nothing different to nike other than nostalgia and the fake 'bbUt wER'rE sKatEr OwNed' puppy eyes of guilt effect on all the older heads lol.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteReynolds left emerica because emerica did not want to renew his contract.[close]
Your comments in this thread have been fairly agreeable.
I do disagree that Reynolds doesn't care about money. I worked for a clothing brand he was trying to get onto and the conversation was all about money - which is why he ended up at RVCA as they put the biggest salary on the table. That was what he was after. The fact that a brand would do fuck all to market him didn't matter. It was money and nothing more.
However, this bit I've quoted above is totally untrue.[close]
Not surprised as he probably has to rely mainly on shoes/clothing sponsor to bring food to his table.[close]
Yeah.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quoteidk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteI see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.[close]
This literally.[close]
Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.[close]
Fuck knows, but what's for sure is kids couldn't a spec of a damn about fuckin' Soletech. And I'm pretty sure that if younger skaters were privy to the fact Emerica or eS is owned by it they'd be pretty bummed also. I know my couple of emerica fan mates were when they realised it's affiliation with etnies.. In the Uk etnies is kinda some wasteman shopping centre brand shit.
It's sometimes weird coming on here, I forget how in real life a lot of people who skate don't actually delve into the background of things too deep, kinda wish I was naive to some of this bullshit too...[close]
Did the same kids just realize Nike SB is actually affiliated with Nike? Not cool Nike, the Nike your mom bought you from mega-chain-x as a kid. That weird Nike old people wear and so on.[close]
If you spoke to a young person on which was cool, nike or etnies? I think you'd be sadly surprised man.
I just don't think 'skater owned' companies workout for new generations when said skater becomes totally irrelevant, there's no face, it's just another company, especially when you realise that an even bigger company owns all 3. Hence why people are saying if Koston or Reynolds had ownership over the 2 other brands it probably would have helped over the last decade... maybe? When the company seems like 'just another company' it's all down to marketing and guess who trumps that?
I think the world's moved on too much in the last decade for these boarderline-skaterowned/corpo cyborgs companies i.e soletech and lakai, there's a dwindling market for it now. No one gives a shit anymore unless you have the small business 'mindfulness' direction of better product, more ethically produced/sourced and backed by likeminded skaters, ie Last Resort, although some of those points are contested, it's still an attempt that people can get behind. The other 4 companies are offering nothing different to nike other than nostalgia and the fake 'bbUt wER'rE sKatEr OwNed' puppy eyes of guilt effect on all the older heads lol.[close]
You're probably right, and I agree with everything you said.
I feel that there has been a huge gap little over 10 years ago where "skater owned" footwear brands didn't fought back the big Corpo brands or maybe they have underestimated them. During this time, those ownership deals could have "maybe" saved the face of Soletech/Lakai/DVS ? Too late now.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand Quoteidk man. This board is filled with older heads saying 40+ year old skateboarders would have rejuvenated a dying small footwear company. do younger kids really care much about either Koston or Reynolds? No doubt they are legends but obviously having Reynolds on wasn't cutting it for Emerica towards the end. would I have loved to see both have ownership? Yes, but I don't think it would save either brand (Reynolds owned Altamont and that shit still went under). the big companies offer the best contracts and can afford the most advertising and that's that. This board just circle jerks around everything these brands have messed up over the years but in reality, the second the big names came in with good money it was done no matter what, it just does not make sense to turn that down.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteI see ownership in a way like Spanky is doing Baker graphics, or other older pros are now doing back-end stuff for brands.
Having Reynolds and Koston as part owners of both 'es and Emerica whould have rejuvinated the company, and probably kept a tighter team without having so many people leaving and creating a sort of identity hole.
In the end Nike or Vans or any other bigger shoes brand doesn't offer this but pays well and it's a great way for an aging professional to fade out.
Now basically all SoleTech brands have lost a lot of history and a lot of branding that even Koston or Reynolds brought to the table.[close]
This literally.[close]
Lets be real, you and everyone you know has been skating nike and vans for the past decade and that is not gonna change anytime soon. I think we can stop talking about this on every soletech/lakai thread.[close]
Fuck knows, but what's for sure is kids couldn't a spec of a damn about fuckin' Soletech. And I'm pretty sure that if younger skaters were privy to the fact Emerica or eS is owned by it they'd be pretty bummed also. I know my couple of emerica fan mates were when they realised it's affiliation with etnies.. In the Uk etnies is kinda some wasteman shopping centre brand shit.
It's sometimes weird coming on here, I forget how in real life a lot of people who skate don't actually delve into the background of things too deep, kinda wish I was naive to some of this bullshit too...[close]
Did the same kids just realize Nike SB is actually affiliated with Nike? Not cool Nike, the Nike your mom bought you from mega-chain-x as a kid. That weird Nike old people wear and so on.[close]
If you spoke to a young person on which was cool, nike or etnies? I think you'd be sadly surprised man.
I just don't think 'skater owned' companies workout for new generations when said skater becomes totally irrelevant, there's no face, it's just another company, especially when you realise that an even bigger company owns all 3. Hence why people are saying if Koston or Reynolds had ownership over the 2 other brands it probably would have helped over the last decade... maybe? When the company seems like 'just another company' it's all down to marketing and guess who trumps that?
I think the world's moved on too much in the last decade for these boarderline-skaterowned/corpo cyborgs companies i.e soletech and lakai, there's a dwindling market for it now. No one gives a shit anymore unless you have the small business 'mindfulness' direction of better product, more ethically produced/sourced and backed by likeminded skaters, ie Last Resort, although some of those points are contested, it's still an attempt that people can get behind. The other 4 companies are offering nothing different to nike other than nostalgia and the fake 'bbUt wER'rE sKatEr OwNed' puppy eyes of guilt effect on all the older heads lol.[close]
You're probably right, and I agree with everything you said.
I feel that there has been a huge gap little over 10 years ago where "skater owned" footwear brands didn't fought back the big Corpo brands or maybe they have underestimated them. During this time, those ownership deals could have "maybe" saved the face of Soletech/Lakai/DVS ? Too late now.[close]
Too late now yes, but even getting rid of drew now is not gonna save emerica, why not go down with Drew on board, honoring all his contributions thus far.
I could see this “restructuring” of emerica turning into another creative hiatus like the one eS had.
Didn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?
Expand QuoteDidn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?[close]
I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.
But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteDidn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?[close]
I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.
But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.[close]
I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.
You can be upset at both.
CBI: Something that I’m still trying to wrap my head around is what happened with the end of that first era of eS. Didn’t you just put out a shoe, like, a week before?
Bobby Worrest: Yeah, I’d just put out a shoe and a little video part thing before all that went down.
CBI: Did you see the end coming?
Bobby Worrest: Yes and no. We’d gone through multiple dudes at the company pretty quickly. And Scuba had told me at one point that we weren’t looking so good. I guess they’d hired some guy to try turning the company around but we never really heard anything more about it. And then one day, I get a call from Don Brown. It’s over.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteDidn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?[close]
I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.
But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.[close]
I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.
You can be upset at both.[close]
From Bobby Worrest's Chrome Ball interview a few years ago:QuoteExpand QuoteCBI: Something that I’m still trying to wrap my head around is what happened with the end of that first era of eS. Didn’t you just put out a shoe, like, a week before?
Bobby Worrest: Yeah, I’d just put out a shoe and a little video part thing before all that went down.
CBI: Did you see the end coming?
Bobby Worrest: Yes and no. We’d gone through multiple dudes at the company pretty quickly. And Scuba had told me at one point that we weren’t looking so good. I guess they’d hired some guy to try turning the company around but we never really heard anything more about it. And then one day, I get a call from Don Brown. It’s over.[close]
Gotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!!
Expand QuoteGotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!![close]
Well put
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteGotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!![close]
Well put[close]
Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteGotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!![close]
Well put[close]
Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.[close]
Not quite accurate.
From Koston's CBI interview...
"For years on eS, I had a standing offer at Lakai. And this was not only to be part of something with my friends, but also as part owner! Partial ownership of eS for me was never an option, I was only ever going to be a contracted rider there. But that only lasts for so long. After that, I’m done... I left a pretty big contract at eS but I had to be realistic about things. I made the decision that I needed to be an owner and be part of this thing forever. But obviously, that changed. In reality, it’s not as pretty as it sounds. Owning shit is not that great, especially with partners that are questionable."
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteGotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!![close]
Well put[close]
Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.[close]
Not quite accurate.
From Koston's CBI interview...
"For years on eS, I had a standing offer at Lakai. And this was not only to be part of something with my friends, but also as part owner! Partial ownership of eS for me was never an option, I was only ever going to be a contracted rider there. But that only lasts for so long. After that, I’m done... I left a pretty big contract at eS but I had to be realistic about things. I made the decision that I needed to be an owner and be part of this thing forever. But obviously, that changed. In reality, it’s not as pretty as it sounds. Owning shit is not that great, especially with partners that are questionable."[close]
You just confirmed what I said, he wanted ownership and they said no, he didn’t leave because some big corporate was offering him more money that ST couldn’t match.
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteDidn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?[close]
I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.
But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.[close]
I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.
You can be upset at both.[close]
It was virtually overnight. No one internally really knew either. Maybe the executive team. One day people came in and their jobs and team rider slots and the brand were gone and everyone was scrambling to fabricate a narrative. "Creative hiatus" was a lie. Banks were involved. It was a multi million dollar budget cut essentially. In other words "they are just going to abandon skateboarding and skateboarders when it's not lucrative anymore!"
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteGotta love how corpo sports brands can do things like cut the entire team in one country, screw over skate shops, make you wait in line and pay $300 for a shoe they could easily just make more of, erase videos from the web, sell rollerblades, sell in Walmart etc... but a brand born from skateboarding letting a rider slip away because they couldn't compete with the money being offered elsewhere - fucking bring out the firing squad!!![close]
Well put[close]
Nobody was offering koston or drew money when they left ST. They wanted to stay and keep contributing to the company, in exchange of a well deserved part ownership or salary increase and were rejected instead.[close]
Not quite accurate.
From Koston's CBI interview...
"For years on eS, I had a standing offer at Lakai. And this was not only to be part of something with my friends, but also as part owner! Partial ownership of eS for me was never an option, I was only ever going to be a contracted rider there. But that only lasts for so long. After that, I’m done... I left a pretty big contract at eS but I had to be realistic about things. I made the decision that I needed to be an owner and be part of this thing forever. But obviously, that changed. In reality, it’s not as pretty as it sounds. Owning shit is not that great, especially with partners that are questionable."[close]
You just confirmed what I said, he wanted ownership and they said no, he didn’t leave because some big corporate was offering him more money that ST couldn’t match.[close]
You said no one was offering Koston money, which is directly refuted by his own words. Lakai had an offer for years, and he could get ownership too (which he says in hindsight is not actually a great deal). I will agree it sounds like ownership WAS the bigger motivator at the time though. But there most certainly was an offer, that's why I said "not quite accurate".
Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteDidn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?[close]
I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.
But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.[close]
I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.
You can be upset at both.[close]
It was virtually overnight. No one internally really knew either. Maybe the executive team. One day people came in and their jobs and team rider slots and the brand were gone and everyone was scrambling to fabricate a narrative. "Creative hiatus" was a lie. Banks were involved. It was a multi million dollar budget cut essentially. In other words "they are just going to abandon skateboarding and skateboarders when it's not lucrative anymore!"[close]
Damn. So it was that abrupt. Weak.
It doesn't affect my opinion on their products and team, but interesting to hear it was as bleak as a lot of people suspected when the whole "creative hiatus" explanation was put out there. Didn't they come back only a year later or something? Wonder what changed? Less investment in team for sure.[close]
Very weak. Yeah, came back a few years later with very little overheard, barely paying skaters. Recycling one old shoe after another. You know, really progressive and giving back to skateboarding. Happy to see those evil "corpo" brands took care of the riders that Sole abandoned, glad so many landed on their feet. TX, Bobby, Manderson, Terps, etc. Scuba and Rattray working at Nike and so on. Ironic huh?
Kinda wild that the Sole Tech brands were who pros aspired to sign with back in the late 90s & early 00s, where as now (bless their little hearts) they’re practically the Duffs, or Dekline of the contemporary skate shoe industry.
Nutty.
Hang in there Sole Tech.
Slow down bro don't make up information that's untrue. Post the article where Don Brown talks about how eS was involved with banks and that's why it went on hiatus.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteExpand QuoteDidn't eS drop their whole team with out warning?[close]
I highly doubt there was no previous discussion when they decided to put es' on hiatus, or when team riders were let go. I'm sure it seemed out of the blue to fans who only see the brands through their media output, but huge decisions like that are not just made on a whim with no notice.
But my point was that the corpos do the same thing, if people want to get upset at SoleTech for questionable decisions.[close]
I remember reading an interview with one of the riders at the time (maybe Mike Anderson?) that there was no transparency from eS, and one day the program was just done with no warning.
You can be upset at both.[close]
It was virtually overnight. No one internally really knew either. Maybe the executive team. You don't often tell people they are getting laid off before they are laid off. That's standard HR procedure. One day people came in and their jobs and team rider slots and the brand were gone and everyone was scrambling to fabricate a narrative. "Creative hiatus" was a lie. Banks were involved. Don mentioned it in an interview once. It was a multi million dollar budget cut essentially. In other words "they are just going to abandon skateboarding and skateboarders when it's not lucrative anymore!"
No bro not at all. You have to understand the relationship of industry heads and riders. I can go into detail and talk about why these riders left and did something else but it would fall on deaf ears. What you need to get the idea of riders being the main idea of the brand out of your head. What Sole tech does with their companies reflects their ideas and the riders being apart of it at that time is what promotes their ideas. You need start just looking at the branding and quality of the products before you just start talking about how they fell off.Expand QuoteEtnies is the best of the three brands and has been the most consistent of the three, in my opinion. Emerica, a close second. Es was supreme until 2006 and then they drifted away from relevance gradually. I blame it on the vulc shoe trend at that time. Really didn't do much for them aside from the Square One.
The whole Es goin under in 2012 just sounds unfortunate and not malicious from what I've seen/heard. Especially if it has something to do with banks/finances being cut/affected so abruptly. It's hard to give people enough notice when you didn't even get notice that everything was being dropped, and you have to tell your riders right after...
However, if I don't know something or am missing info about, I'm happy to be corrected.
I'll gladly still buy etnies. I think they make the best quality shoes right now: those Michelin cupsoles are incredible shoes![close]
And now you see the full circle journey and the beginning of the end, stemming from shitty decisions that lead to things like losing Koston, Paul, PJ, Antwuan, Penny, Mikey Taylor (all heavies at the time) and others which causes the aforementioned chain reaction I mentioned earlier in this thread. Malicious? No. Dumb and digging their own grave? Yes. Imagine losing your brand (and hundreds of millions over the course of a decade) because you don’t want to properly compensate key riders and employees with a tiny fraction of your revenue then blaming other brands and everyone but yourself for your downfall? Lol.
Edit: keep in mind around the same time Emerica lost Ellington and a few others, etnies lost Janoski. Company-wide exodus. Do you really think that’s all just a coincidence?
Edit: keep in mind around the same time Emerica lost Ellington and a few others, etnies lost Janoski. Company-wide exodus. Do you really think that’s all just a coincidence?
alright, i thought we were talking about a 1-2 year timeline of exits leading up to the hiatus. not disagreeing that these exits were signs that es/sole tech was on the relevancy downturn.Expand QuoteExpand QuoteEdit: keep in mind around the same time Emerica lost Ellington and a few others, etnies lost Janoski. Company-wide exodus. Do you really think that’s all just a coincidence?[close]
ellington was on supra right from the start though, that was when, 2005? janoski was already a couple years on nike and already had his pro model out by 2012. same with p-rod, who was on nike pretty early on. so i wouldn't call that a company wide exodus. koston went to lakai around fully flared. all these people have been off and well established on other companies when es kicked it/went on hiatus. it sucked most for bobby and kellen james, who just had a promodel released or were about to respectively. that kj shoe was dope as hell, like a modern sal.[close]
This was an example completely separate from talk of the hiatus.
Expand QuoteEtnies is the best of the three brands and has been the most consistent of the three, in my opinion. Emerica, a close second. Es was supreme until 2006 and then they drifted away from relevance gradually. I blame it on the vulc shoe trend at that time. Really didn't do much for them aside from the Square One.
The whole Es goin under in 2012 just sounds unfortunate and not malicious from what I've seen/heard. Especially if it has something to do with banks/finances being cut/affected so abruptly. It's hard to give people enough notice when you didn't even get notice that everything was being dropped, and you have to tell your riders right after...
However, if I don't know something or am missing info about, I'm happy to be corrected.
I'll gladly still buy etnies. I think they make the best quality shoes right now: those Michelin cupsoles are incredible shoes![close]
And now you see the full circle journey and the beginning of the end, stemming from shitty decisions that lead to things like losing Koston, Paul, PJ, Antwuan, Penny, Mikey Taylor (all heavies at the time) and others which causes the aforementioned chain reaction I mentioned earlier in this thread. Malicious? No. Dumb and digging their own grave? Yes. Imagine losing your brand (and hundreds of millions over the course of a decade) because you don’t want to properly compensate key riders and employees with a tiny fraction of your revenue then blaming other brands and everyone but yourself for your downfall? Lol.
Edit: keep in mind around the same time Emerica lost Ellington and a few others, etnies lost Janoski. Company-wide exodus. Do you really think that’s all just a coincidence?
There is a lot of opinion in the last couple of pages being touted as fact.
It's definitely getting hard to separate the two. The worry being that some of the ideas will then become fact just because a couple of the posters here repeat it enough...
This IS the Way.Expand QuoteThere is a lot of opinion in the last couple of pages being touted as fact.
It's definitely getting hard to separate the two. The worry being that some of the ideas will then become fact just because a couple of the posters here repeat it enough...[close]
That's the way of the world my man..