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Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: MxsDx on November 29, 2021, 05:02:48 PM
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Many posters on this board seem to have a strong bias against NHS. I don't have strong feelings about this one way or another, but am curious to hear from others. What bums you out about NHS? Is it the TMNT and Sponge Bob collaborations? the ubiquitous mall store SC dot logo? marketing to the YouTube crowd? The divisive Indy cross? or the shitty performance of OJ wheels? Have I answered my own question? On the other hand NHS has been able to maintain the relevance (to some degree) of several legacy brands and seems to take good care of its riders, including veterans like Eric Dressen. Let me know what you think.
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I’m fine with them.
I like riding Creature with Indys, OJs, and Bronsons. Shit works for me.
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There was a while around 2004-2010 where the only 8.5+ boards I could find were creatures or Santa Cruz and only bigger trucks were indys.
I also was fully into Ed Templeton ricta cores.
I don't especially like the companies but they had what I needed for a long time so I can't bring myself to actually hate them. Indy should of kept the vertical axis (like a capital I) as their logo tho.
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mob
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OJ's and Rictas are garbage.
Indy moved all production to China. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Santa Cruz has little relevance other than banking on 40 year old iconography.
Creature and Mob still cool though.
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they’re nice people in a sea of mean mean people
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
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Creature is my favorite team
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Indys are good, they are still good. Anyone who says otherwise is crazy
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I don't have strong feelings about this one way or another, but am curious to hear from others.
I don't care that you don't care about it. But I'm curious if you care about it.
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Indys are good, they are still good. Anyone who says otherwise is crazy
Still the best looking truck imo.
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Creature has been cool since day one. Santa Cruz has a great team but an identity crisis.
Leave SC to tranny rippers and 40 year old former skaters. Split the team and make a new brand with the street guys.
Was bummed on my last set of OJs. Kind of over Indy. Might give venture another try, been awhile but liked’em until i succumbed to the peer pressure of indy.
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Indys are good, they are still good. Anyone who says otherwise is crazy
Indy’s are great, so is Mob. The other brands i don't care for personally but I'm glad that Tom Asta can feed and house his kids off Santa Cruz money, so on balance I guess I am NHS positive
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It all comes down to Hawk versus Hosoi, and I am team birdman all the way baby
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I just love Santa Cruz.
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Everytime I see Santa Cruz its on some mall kid or oblivious hypebeast. Had 1 board back in the day, it was aVanik Hacobian(sp?) powerply.
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Indy makes good trucks
creature makes good decks, I'm sure the other brands are similar quality
Bronson's suck
Krux are kinda wack
Idk about all that other shit though.
Also, In B4 C5 the words "racist" or "jock" were posted in this thread? I'm shocked.
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Indys are good, they are still good. Anyone who says otherwise is crazy
Still the best looking truck imo.
Ace look better but the stage 11 Indy is probably the best all around skateboard truck ever made.
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Santa Cruz/Creature
1. After the gyms closed during last year’s lockdowns, I put on mad weight, and Santa Cruz VX or Everslick decks were the only decks that could withstand my consistent inability to land on the bolts.
2. I finally learned fs lipslides since I knew the VX and Everslick boards weren’t just gonna explode on impact.
3. I really like their shapes/sizes/wheelbases, and now I’ll even buy Creature boards when the SC 8.25-8.5’s are out of stock. Probably one of the last brands I ever thought I would ride but the first street clips I got in 5+ years were on one of the Creature “Stumps” boards.
4. My boy Knibbs rides for them and his boards have all been 8.27’s, so I’m gonna keep supporting.
Krux
After finally understanding the concept of wheelbases (thank you Ben Degros), I was in the market for new trucks, and Kechaud Johnson convinced me to try the new Krux down-low king pin trucks. What I didn’t take into account was the fact I was going from some of the lowest trucks to some of the highest trucks and I do NOT skate with the same amount of power that Kechaud does. My tail almost never touched the ground when I would ollie and I had to ditch them ASAP. They’re in my office with maybe 30 minutes of skate time on them if anyone wants to put in an offer.
Independent
Once they dropped their old logo and released the Indy MiDs, I gave them a shot. As someone who rode Venture Lows for the past 20 years, the Indys were INCREDIBLY FUN to skate. The turning is amazing. I actually felt upset at the fact I could’ve been carving like that for decades but stuck with the slow turning Ventures out of dumb blind loyalty. Additionally (and unfortunately), my muscle memory is so used to the Ventures, that the MiDs are too high and I need to put deliberate intent on popping hard enough for the tail to hit the ground. Ended up going to Tensor Mag Lows but I’ll spare you all a review unless asked.
Mob
I like the Mob M88 grip. It’s right in between regular Jessup and regular Mob.
Ricta
I have Ricta Clouds on my cruiser/filmer board with Indy 149’s. Super fun, smooth, and quiet. But too grippy to do a lot of tricks with.
Bronson
Never tried them.
I didn’t know people on SLAP hated on NHS. Then again, I dont lurk/post here nearly as much as I used to.
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I like Bronson bearings and Mob grip. Santa Cruz boards are good, switched to ACE 11 or 12 years ago and haven't looked back so no idea If indy fixed their issues.
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Not a fan, not sure why just never got the Phillips graphics or whatever, and I had a pair of ricta cores and they broke on me when I was younger. Iono they are just kinda wack I suppose
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is NHS solely founded by Fausto? If so, I'm glad they essentially started Indy, Thunder, Venture, (opening the gayes for all of DLX for that matter), Thrasher, etc.
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
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Was forced to ride Creature boards for years since there weren't any other brands available that made 9 inch boards. Hated the boards. They were so stiff and would snap all the time. Fortunately nowadays almost every brand has a wide board in their catalogue and I don't have to skate Creature boards anymore
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Completely off topic, but when did NHS lose the rights to Spitfire and how did Deluxe scoop it up?
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Completely off topic, but when did NHS lose the rights to Spitfire and how did Deluxe scoop it up?
Spitfire was founded under Deluxe distribution by Thiebaud.
The whole SF skateboardmanufacturing history is bit convoluted, as people, factories and distributions get mixed up.
Like Independent Trucks were founded under NHS inc. by Fausto, Swenson, Novak and Shiurman. Fausto and Swenson operated Ermico Enterprises, who manufactured the trucks, and Novak and Shiurman were the 2/3 on NHS Inc. ( Doug Haut being the third).
Then Thunder and Venture trucks were under Deluxe Distributon (Which was founded by Fausto and Brian Ware) and Ermico manufactured all three trucks.
Fausto and Swenson also formed Thrasher Magazine (High Speed Productions), mainly to promote Independent Trucks.
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Completely off topic, but when did NHS lose the rights to Spitfire and how did Deluxe scoop it up?
Did they do SF? I've got a 2008 catalogue and there's nothing in there. Wiki has Dlx starting in 1986 and there's no mention of NHS doing SF.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluxe_Distribution#Spitfire
EDIT: post above mine is more relevant.
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I'm stoked that the large legacy distributions like NHS, SkateOne, Dwindle and Deluxe are still around and financially viable. As much as we all love the smaller independent brands I have a feeling not too many of them will survive if (when) the economy collapses in the next few years. The more big distros that survive the better it will be for all of us.
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I don’t really have a strong opinion on NHS products. Never skated any of the boards but I was running Krux and OJ for years and liked both. I’m on Venture and Satori now tho lol. They probably pay their riders pretty well so that’s good, but I just don’t care about the brands/teams much.
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They make good decks even though I don't use them. I like Indys
Powell also makes good boards that I don't use. I probably would if they made egg shapes though.
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Indys are good, they are still good. Anyone who says otherwise is crazy
Came here to make some version of all three of those points. Thanks for the assist.
Currently skating Indy Ti 169’s. They’re are fun while also being extremely functional.
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it's all just stuff for kids or dudes in their 50's
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Dudes in their 50's rule.
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Lots of skaters get paid from nhs, it’s the bigger side of skating which isn’t for everyone. That’s why there are so many brands now. Buy Coda, Lurpiv, dial tone, quantum bearings, iron horse etc. the industry is very diverse and Any facet you could dream up is there to be explored.
All the people who work at nhs are great and do so much for my shop, I can’t complain. The funny licensing deals exist because people want them, skateboarding is huge and like anything else it’s a commodity now. They have a lane and they own it. I don’t see the problem. Novak and Denike basically created the skateboard industry, if you don’t like it make your own companies.
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Been into Creature for a long time, love ‘em
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its all bad
Id like to refine my answer, Strangenotes dvds were awesome. I wont skate any of it though
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indy, oj, and bronson are actually really good and fill specific niches that are godlike, the rest of the shit is whatever. its not bad but its nothing i care too much about. SC + Creature are way better than Element and PLan B. but theres like a billion board companies so they are just another 2 brands lost in the mix to me.
bones wheels are the best hard wheels, spitfire are good medium-hard, and OJ are the best medium wheels
i love bones bearings but bronson just as good and not as expensive
indy are lighter weight than ACE trucks and are a better in between tightness and loose turning and good height to them. ACE are heavier but much looser turning, not everyone wants that. theres advantages and disadvantanges to both.
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it's all just stuff for kids or dudes in their 50's
This guy who’s about 26 told me his favourite brand is Santa Cruz. I’m still trying to piece together his reasoning.
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Well, basically OJ is the only company that makes authentic 80's shaped wheels, but I would really like some OJIII shaped wheels that are hard. I kinda want to try slimeballs. I have broken OJIIIs multiple times though, the core separated from the wheel granted I had been powersliding on them a bit and I've also had them like chip in half on impact from flip tricks.
SC does have some of the cleanest art in the industry but the collabs and their fanbase really make me not want to be in possession of one. Its either old guys and not the cool kind or childfen. Even though they outsource really talented professional artists alot of the graphics feel super contrived.
Someone gave me a Natas kitten reissue because they didn't like how it felt and after seconds of having set it up i understood why. The tail felt kinked, like it had two different inclines. Definitely made me feel like i should avoid the wood.
Used to like creature but something about a green board just doesn't feel right to me. Cant really get behind the 'metal' graphic direction, is just cheesy and watered down especially since metal has gotten adopted and gentrified by the h&m crowd. Love gravette and willis though.
Kinda wish flip had stayed here, I had a camo hkd board when they were nhs and greyson was on the team beardless and that was a pretty good little time frame.
Indy are my go to trucks, never really strayed away. Tried ace and dont like how they basically shorten your wheelbase. I dont buy new ones though, have had the same 3 pairs in rotation for about a 7 years.
Mob is awful. Never tried bronson. Never tried krux but i dont think i could do it.
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Indys are good. I like the Krux team but have never tried their trucks
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Dudes in their 50's rule.
Didn’t say it was a bad thing!!
Like 144 said. They got a lane. And the history is undeniable.
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Before this devolves into a argument about "Made in China", I'll add that the guys at the top have some solid business accument. T
hey may have gone too far with Spongebob / Simpson's licensing deals but were the first to go hard mainstream with collabs in the 2010s, paving the way for Primitive to do anime collabs. They are also fortunate that skaters who grew up riding their brand in the 80s/90s now have much more disposable income to blow $400 on a reissue. Lean heavy into their heritage with the Screaming Hand / Classic dot for some consistent deck sales.
And like that Maurio Mccoy and Tom Asta are getting paid.
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I’m gonna guess that none of the people claiming Indy is the best have actually tried the Caliber IIIs yet.
Also, when talking about Deluxe & Spitfire, it would be nice if Jeff Klindt (RIP) could get his due respect for being pivotal in the creation of Spitfire, as well as helping move Deluxe Dist. from T-shirts & records to skateboard hard goods (and more T-shirts.)
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I’m gonna guess that none of the people claiming Indy is the best have actually tried the Caliber IIIs yet.
Also, when talking about Deluxe & Spitfire, it would be nice if Jeff Klindt (RIP) could get his due respect for being pivotal in the creation of Spitfire, as well as helping move Deluxe Dist. from T-shirts & records to skateboard hard goods (and more T-shirts.)
SHOTS FIRED. LOU EXPOSING FOOLS OUT HERE
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never had any issues with my healthcare, hopefully the rumored plans of selling it off/privatization dont happen.
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Trust me, you can trust @mattdlx.
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
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hey may have gone too far with Spongebob / Simpson's licensing deals but were the first to go hard mainstream with collabs in the 2010s, paving the way for Primitive to do anime collabs. They are also fortunate that skaters who grew up riding their brand in the 80s/90s now have much more disposable income to blow $400 on a reissue. Lean heavy into their heritage with the Screaming Hand / Classic dot for some consistent deck sales.
More than deck sales, for the general public, the Screaming Hand/Dot logo is probably the second most popular skate hoodie after Thrasher. Maybe more popular, honestly, because I think a lot of people don't see it as being explicitly skate related. Everyone from or passing through the town of Santa Cruz buys one.
And NHS is famously litigious, so there aren't a lot of knockoff screaming hand hoodies floating around.
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
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I’m gonna guess that none of the people claiming Indy is the best have actually tried the Caliber IIIs yet.
Also, when talking about Deluxe & Spitfire, it would be nice if Jeff Klindt (RIP) could get his due respect for being pivotal in the creation of Spitfire, as well as helping move Deluxe Dist. from T-shirts & records to skateboard hard goods (and more T-shirts.)
SHOTS FIRED. LOU EXPOSING FOOLS OUT HERE
I mean, have you seen those things? They have an adjustable bushing system that uses shims.
SHIMS!!! It’s genius is what it is!
Why didn’t any of us think of this brilliant solution to…?!?
LHOTSE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG: WE SHOULD HAVE LISTENED!!!
We should have heeded his warnings, but now it’s too late for most of us.
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never had any issues with my healthcare, hopefully the rumored plans of selling it off/privatization dont happen.
If the tories could they would.
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i hate mob grip, too grippy for me
i don’t like indys, can’t say i hate them because i skated trucks that were much worse (silver, old tensors, old royals, street corner ventures) but whenever i skate a board with them on i feel like there’s a split second before the board starts turning unlike aces or thunders where the turn starts instantly after leaning to the side
never tried krux
the wheels suck
the bearings suck
never had a nhs board, i like santa cruz team but don’t like the graphics and creature is mostly transition oriented which i’m not really into
however the one thing i really like about nhs is their completes. they are reasonably priced, all of the parts are good quality compared to other completes and most importantly the shapes are great for children. for example a 7.75 sc complete is about 30 inches long and has a 13 inch wheelbase. most companies don’t make boards that short and whenever somebody comes to the shop i work in and wants to buy a board for their kid i usually sell them a santa cruz because i can’t imagine a 4 and a half foot tall kid trying to ollie on a 32 inch long board.
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
Excellent question, to which I say “I have no idea.”
I don’t know enough about the process to be able to tell what metal is which in the fab process. I’m not swift with the metallurgy, and I don’t know that I could tell a Ti axle from a steel one at any distance, either.
In other words, I don’t know what I was seeing, beyond clearly being able to see trucks in various stages of fabrication.
For THAT specific data point that you asked about @manysnakes, perhaps we can turn to the aforementioned PAL, @mattdlx, for the answer.
As I said in the exchange quoted above, you can believe the brother on the matter.
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I was a SMA/Santa Cruz guy when all my friends were into Powell Peralta when I started skating in the 80s. I've tried their products off and on over the decades.
With the exception of some stage 7 indys that I managed to crack both hangers after maybe 3 months of skating, they've been quality.
Currently, I've got some indys on some setups, riding the natas ojs on one, and shin sanbongi ojs on another one. Good stuff..
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They peaked with strange notes
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
I don’t know enough about the process to be able to tell what metal is which in the fab process. I’m not swift with the metallurgy, and I don’t know that I could tell a Ti axle from a steel one at any distance, either.
In other words, I don’t know what I was seeing, beyond clearly being able to see trucks in various stages of fabrication.
For THAT specific data point that you asked about @manysnakes, perhaps we can turn to the aforementioned PAL, @mattdlx, for the answer.
As I said in the exchange quoted above, you can believe the brother on the matter.
For sure, I am not doubting it. I just remember that it was the titanium hangers which originally took Independent to China, so I assume it's something that's beyond the capacity of Ermico to produce. I've worked in heavy manufacturing, so really I am just curious about the details.
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
I don’t know enough about the process to be able to tell what metal is which in the fab process. I’m not swift with the metallurgy, and I don’t know that I could tell a Ti axle from a steel one at any distance, either.
In other words, I don’t know what I was seeing, beyond clearly being able to see trucks in various stages of fabrication.
For THAT specific data point that you asked about @manysnakes, perhaps we can turn to the aforementioned PAL, @mattdlx, for the answer.
As I said in the exchange quoted above, you can believe the brother on the matter.
For sure, I am not doubting it. I just remember that it was the titanium hangers which originally took Independent to China, so I assume it's something that's beyond the capacity of Ermico to produce. I've worked in heavy manufacturing, so really I am just curious about the details.
the hangar is not titanium, the axel is. im assuming all hangars get poured at ermico around what ever axel they want. can @mattdlx explain why the trucks dont say "made in USA". if its such a big selling point for the two brands why doesnt it say where they are made? I heard that Pointech was moved to Mexico and some of the classics formula wheels say made in Mexico on them. I think Ermico just makes the F4s. Ermico should be boastful that they are manufacturing skate stuff in USA, not many other skate brands can make that claim.
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Well, basically OJ is the only company that makes authentic 80's shaped wheels, but I would really like some OJIII shaped wheels that are hard. I kinda want to try slimeballs. I have broken OJIIIs multiple times though, the core separated from the wheel granted I had been powersliding on them a bit and I've also had them like chip in half on impact from flip tricks.
SC does have some of the cleanest art in the industry but the collabs and their fanbase really make me not want to be in possession of one. Its either old guys and not the cool kind or childfen. Even though they outsource really talented professional artists alot of the graphics feel super contrived.
Someone gave me a Natas kitten reissue because they didn't like how it felt and after seconds of having set it up i understood why. The tail felt kinked, like it had two different inclines. Definitely made me feel like i should avoid the wood.
Used to like creature but something about a green board just doesn't feel right to me. Cant really get behind the 'metal' graphic direction, is just cheesy and watered down especially since metal has gotten adopted and gentrified by the h&m crowd. Love gravette and willis though.
Kinda wish flip had stayed here, I had a camo hkd board when they were nhs and greyson was on the team beardless and that was a pretty good little time frame.
Indy are my go to trucks, never really strayed away. Tried ace and dont like how they basically shorten your wheelbase. I dont buy new ones though, have had the same 3 pairs in rotation for about a 7 years.
Mob is awful. Never tried bronson. Never tried krux but i dont think i could do it.
Powell makes reissues of their 80s wheels
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NHS is a decent company. I dont know of any terribly slimy stuff they have done besides moving Indy away from Ermico.
SC lost its flavor in the knot logo era. Now in the second coming of the dot logo era its pretty bland. I like the reissues/ winkowskis and few graphics here and there. seeing the dot logo in every surf/skate/sneaker shop makes it a brand for tourists, dads and toddlers.
Creature is rad for the team and shapes they offer. I could never wear any of the clothes or anything, and most of the graphics arent very appealing. but I choose boards on shape and size. I like the vids they make with some major park ripping and raw street spots. I relate to skatepark skating in videos because I skate parks a lot so I like to see what pro can do at all the gnarliest parks.
mob is a decent product.
OJ is a rad brand for cruiser wheels but the hard wheels dont seem very good to me. 55mm super juice is a good wheel and 52/54mm keyframes is one of the best beginner wheels
Krux are lame
Bullet is some cheap ass shit
ricta is pretty lame but the 92a clouds are a decent wheel. they are soft but can slide if your on the right surface and going fast.
Bronson im still on the fence about. the G2s are total garbage, they were made to steal some market share from Reds which is possibly the #1 best selling skate product behind mob/jessup. G3s are decent bearing. Raws are fucking stupid. Ceramics are cool if you want the cheapest ceramics available.
Indys are really good trucks. I dont care where they are made. they turn and grind the best for me. The clothes are similar to the SC dot logo where you see foos that dont skate rocking it all the time.
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Basically they own most the market, nhs & dlx with thrasher is like one big monopoly on product from the westcoast.
Anything come close to that power anywhere else? Only other big companies i know are distributers, for that product.
Seems so far the revive strategy really is the best route to divert money from cali/mex product hub.
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ill take a box though
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hey may have gone too far with Spongebob / Simpson's licensing deals but were the first to go hard mainstream with collabs in the 2010s, paving the way for Primitive to do anime collabs. They are also fortunate that skaters who grew up riding their brand in the 80s/90s now have much more disposable income to blow $400 on a reissue. Lean heavy into their heritage with the Screaming Hand / Classic dot for some consistent deck sales.
More than deck sales, for the general public, the Screaming Hand/Dot logo is probably the second most popular skate hoodie after Thrasher. Maybe more popular, honestly, because I think a lot of people don't see it as being explicitly skate related. Everyone from or passing through the town of Santa Cruz buys one.
I would put the Powell Ripper up there as well. Funny story- When I went away to college my little sister raided my room. We had a solid all ages punk/hippie club. She found a hoodie in my dresser with a small rat bones logo on it. She told me the door guy said, "Your older brother skates." She just said, "Yeah." Powell was fully retro at that point.
And NHS is famously litigious, so there aren't a lot of knockoff screaming hand hoodies floating around.
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NHS pays Winkowski. I like that.
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I was in the Creature Fiend Club when I was 13. Pretty sure that's a lifetime membership I can't get out of.
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I like Indys and
David Gravette is a great NHS persona
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINbq4qiff4
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I like Indys and
David Gravette is a great NHS persona
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINbq4qiff4
Not a fan of Indy's but Gravette is class. I actually have been thinking about this alot lately, how many pro skaters bmx now and then and vice versa.
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driven by west coast skate culture, i would rock a Santa Cruz nylon jacket, love that provost is now on Creature
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do all you people like the graphics that creature puts out or is it just the team?
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I'm just not a fan of their brands. Like people have said here, it seems like it could be for young ass kids or old ass bowl trolls. At least Indy changed their logo. And I do like Milton, Jhancarlos Gonzalez, Maurio McCoy, and Fabiana. But in the grand scheme of things, there are other brands I like better.
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Products for kids that only 50 year old Nazis buy to throw at scooter kids
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Last creature I had was solid regular plys, no couloured, I have to have then or a board feel heavy and dull. I assume sc is the same
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
I don’t know enough about the process to be able to tell what metal is which in the fab process. I’m not swift with the metallurgy, and I don’t know that I could tell a Ti axle from a steel one at any distance, either.
In other words, I don’t know what I was seeing, beyond clearly being able to see trucks in various stages of fabrication.
For THAT specific data point that you asked about @manysnakes, perhaps we can turn to the aforementioned PAL, @mattdlx, for the answer.
As I said in the exchange quoted above, you can believe the brother on the matter.
For sure, I am not doubting it. I just remember that it was the titanium hangers which originally took Independent to China, so I assume it's something that's beyond the capacity of Ermico to produce. I've worked in heavy manufacturing, so really I am just curious about the details.
Yes, Thunder/Venture Titaniums are a US-poured hanger around a Chinese Titanium axle. I believe the forged baseplates are also imports.
Pointech not completely moved to Mexico, but demand has exceeded the 17th st capacity, so many/most Spits are being poured south of the border.
As to not saying “made in USA”: my understanding is that roughly 15-20 years back, some legislation went through where you couldn’t say “Made in USA” unless it was 100% US components. Washers/axle nuts/misc parts made it so they would have to say “Made in USA from domestic and imported components” which is a lot to stamp on a baseplate.
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Quality has never been a issue, Direction has.
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Indy is NHS. Period. It's the centerpoint of it's entire history. During its golden years it was the biggest force of energy that entered the world of skateboarding. But like everything else, what goes up must come down. Paying immigrants shit wages and probably no insurance benefits to pour and assemble trucks, to "refining" their geometry into dog shit with stage 9, then stage 10 barely making a step forward. Stage 11 has been so long overdue for a revision. They have the money to revisit superior geometries of the past, invert the kingpin stock on hi's, explore stuff like rheocasting, etc. and actually keep innovating but they aren't.
Take away the logo, take their entire production for every product they offer and move it overseas. What integrity and craftsmanship do you have left at that point? None. NHS is dead and has been for a long time. I've been on Ace's for years but recently went back to Indy since they can do what Grind King did with IKP's and not be Grind King. Are they great performing trucks? Yep. But looking down at them, there is no energy or "spirit" for lack of a better term. Just a ghost of what once was.
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I love the VX decks and typically buy 2 at a time because they sell out. They are all I've skated for nearly 2 years. Although the last couple of batches I've purchased since the summer have not been as good compared to the previous ones. Not sure if they changed the process or something. I'm still down for them though.
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take their entire production for every product they offer and move it overseas. What integrity and craftsmanship do you have left at that point? None. NHS is dead and has been for a long time. I've been on Ace's for years
My dude, what? Ace has been outsourced their entire life. They were a rehash of stage 4's too. Everything you're saying applies to Ace even more.
Although I agree with you about NHS.
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Indy
Oj elites
Creature
MOB
VX decks / obscure dims / stumps or boats
Bronson ceramics
You can count on deck dimensions board after board unlike some companies….boards are just the right range of stiff and poppy
They still support dressen.
Strong overseas programs for riders compared to a lot of bigger companies.
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
I don’t know enough about the process to be able to tell what metal is which in the fab process. I’m not swift with the metallurgy, and I don’t know that I could tell a Ti axle from a steel one at any distance, either.
In other words, I don’t know what I was seeing, beyond clearly being able to see trucks in various stages of fabrication.
For THAT specific data point that you asked about @manysnakes, perhaps we can turn to the aforementioned PAL, @mattdlx, for the answer.
As I said in the exchange quoted above, you can believe the brother on the matter.
For sure, I am not doubting it. I just remember that it was the titanium hangers which originally took Independent to China, so I assume it's something that's beyond the capacity of Ermico to produce. I've worked in heavy manufacturing, so really I am just curious about the details.
This baffles me too. Nowhere on the trucks or even the website says anything. Why not be loud and proud of the USA production. Is it that only a certain amount of the range (plain Raws?) are made in the USA and that highlights that the rest aren't? What's the deal?
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
I don’t know enough about the process to be able to tell what metal is which in the fab process. I’m not swift with the metallurgy, and I don’t know that I could tell a Ti axle from a steel one at any distance, either.
In other words, I don’t know what I was seeing, beyond clearly being able to see trucks in various stages of fabrication.
For THAT specific data point that you asked about @manysnakes, perhaps we can turn to the aforementioned PAL, @mattdlx, for the answer.
As I said in the exchange quoted above, you can believe the brother on the matter.
For sure, I am not doubting it. I just remember that it was the titanium hangers which originally took Independent to China, so I assume it's something that's beyond the capacity of Ermico to produce. I've worked in heavy manufacturing, so really I am just curious about the details.
Yes, Thunder/Venture Titaniums are a US-poured hanger around a Chinese Titanium axle. I believe the forged baseplates are also imports.
Pointech not completely moved to Mexico, but demand has exceeded the 17th st capacity, so many/most Spits are being poured south of the border.
As to not saying “made in USA”: my understanding is that roughly 15-20 years back, some legislation went through where you couldn’t say “Made in USA” unless it was 100% US components. Washers/axle nuts/misc parts made it so they would have to say “Made in USA from domestic and imported components” which is a lot to stamp on a baseplate.
Thanks for this answer. I'd gnar if I could.
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Indys are good, they are still good. Anyone who says otherwise is crazy
Till the end
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Its all good to me. I don’t own any skate shit made by them though…I just noticed this. I also noted I was the only dude over 40 the other morning at the park NOT wearing or skating something made by NHS. One dad showed up and his two little groms were rolling…yup…SC dot completes. I’d try some Indies though…sizing up to 8.5 soon and mostly skate curbs, so it will be a consideration.
Oh wait…I have Mob on my board. There ya go.
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In their stable of brands and components they have pretty much everything covered which is great.
Deck sizes, wb, construction (price point, maple, VX inlay, Everslick), shaped = check. Wheel sizes, shapes and duros, cored, cruizer = check. Truck sizes, heights, raws, colours, prices, Ti, hollow, forged, lower kingpin etc = check. I think they have like 9 different bearings covering price to tech.
Sure the collabs might be kooky but they obviously sell. I don't like all the Krux colours etc but they get riders paid and obviously sell too.
Put together a Creature with Indy's, OJ Elite and Indy GP-B, black MOB etc and I'm pretty sure 80% of people would be happy.
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Indy.Yes
Mob. Yes
Creature... dope team, cool history, fk ton of graphics, weird ass feeling decks.
Everything else... gross.
The history NHS has is amazing tho.
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nah
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Being on the East Coast, I never see anyone with Santa Cruz or Creature boards.
But I was always a fan of Creature, their videos are always pretty sick. I was definitely a fan of Taylor Bingaman when he was on. Dude ripped.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAHPUayWjAc
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Most of the time I find their kicks are too steep for me.
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I guess it’s more of a west coast thing. People keep talking about little kids and old dudes with NHS brand stuff. I almost never see Santa Cruz or Creature stuff in the wild here in Pennsylvania.
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
I don’t know enough about the process to be able to tell what metal is which in the fab process. I’m not swift with the metallurgy, and I don’t know that I could tell a Ti axle from a steel one at any distance, either.
In other words, I don’t know what I was seeing, beyond clearly being able to see trucks in various stages of fabrication.
For THAT specific data point that you asked about @manysnakes, perhaps we can turn to the aforementioned PAL, @mattdlx, for the answer.
As I said in the exchange quoted above, you can believe the brother on the matter.
For sure, I am not doubting it. I just remember that it was the titanium hangers which originally took Independent to China, so I assume it's something that's beyond the capacity of Ermico to produce. I've worked in heavy manufacturing, so really I am just curious about the details.
Yes, Thunder/Venture Titaniums are a US-poured hanger around a Chinese Titanium axle. I believe the forged baseplates are also imports.
Pointech not completely moved to Mexico, but demand has exceeded the 17th st capacity, so many/most Spits are being poured south of the border.
As to not saying “made in USA”: my understanding is that roughly 15-20 years back, some legislation went through where you couldn’t say “Made in USA” unless it was 100% US components. Washers/axle nuts/misc parts made it so they would have to say “Made in USA from domestic and imported components” which is a lot to stamp on a baseplate.
Thanks for this answer. I'd gnar if I could.
I got you, fam.
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SC/SMA had some of the best videos back in the day. The one where JJ was in jail and people kept coming to visit him was cool.
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no thoughts head empty
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. (are even Thunder and Venture raws still at Ermico / SF / USA?)
Yes they are
Can you prove that?
Can also personally verify that hangers & cast plates are poured at Ermico in SF, at least as of a couple weeks ago.
Pointech side of the building was humming too.
I’m glad we could straighten that out.
Your PAL,
-Louis Struxworth III
Are they titanium hangers made in America or are those trucks assembled "of foreign and domestic components"?
I don’t know enough about the process to be able to tell what metal is which in the fab process. I’m not swift with the metallurgy, and I don’t know that I could tell a Ti axle from a steel one at any distance, either.
In other words, I don’t know what I was seeing, beyond clearly being able to see trucks in various stages of fabrication.
For THAT specific data point that you asked about @manysnakes, perhaps we can turn to the aforementioned PAL, @mattdlx, for the answer.
As I said in the exchange quoted above, you can believe the brother on the matter.
For sure, I am not doubting it. I just remember that it was the titanium hangers which originally took Independent to China, so I assume it's something that's beyond the capacity of Ermico to produce. I've worked in heavy manufacturing, so really I am just curious about the details.
Yes, Thunder/Venture Titaniums are a US-poured hanger around a Chinese Titanium axle. I believe the forged baseplates are also imports.
Pointech not completely moved to Mexico, but demand has exceeded the 17th st capacity, so many/most Spits are being poured south of the border.
As to not saying “made in USA”: my understanding is that roughly 15-20 years back, some legislation went through where you couldn’t say “Made in USA” unless it was 100% US components. Washers/axle nuts/misc parts made it so they would have to say “Made in USA from domestic and imported components” which is a lot to stamp on a baseplate.
Thanks for this answer. I'd gnar if I could.
2nd'd and thanks to all of you above for all the questions and then the info on trucks, wheels, etc too, which was very interesting.
My understanding was (as has already been stated above) once certain parts that went into the trucks were not made locally, you cannot have USA on the product, so it was easier to just remove it anyway, so if or when production is moved elsewhere, it is one less thing that has to be changed, along with labels or manufacturing tags.
I think I am often too curious about a lot of the skate industry stuff, but less likely to ask the big questions and just hopefully find the information or as per here, read the answers from people who do know what is going on.
Much appreciated, all of you.
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I know it's slap and all but it's not all about hate....NHS.....indifference....
If you run the comparables for brands that make all hardware....its number 2.....1) DLX 2) NHS 3) could be a tie....Dwindle/crail/Powell?
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I guess it’s more of a west coast thing. People keep talking about little kids and old dudes with NHS brand stuff. I almost never see Santa Cruz or Creature stuff in the wild here in Pennsylvania.
I skate both NJ and PA and this is where I see it. Always SC stuff though, no Creature.
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nah
....Nah
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NHS is super corporate, really doesnt care about their small shop accounts. During the first year of Covid lockdown they were vicious about their policies. (we all understand covid was hard times, but damn)
besides the huge, untenable minimums (if you want indys, you better order 200 pairs at a time), they were one of the only suppliers we have that was actively selling direct to consumer at full price, while offering literally nothing to us on B2B (business to business, wholesale) . Wholesale site would be blacked out with every item "N/A" while the fun factory DTC website had almost everything you could think of. full pages of decks, trucks, wheels, grip etc. Absolutely nothing for shops. When we emailed our rep about it, he essentially just shrugged it off and said it is what it is at this point. product for DTC, none for shops. this held up for the majority of 2020 and a good chunk of 2021.
during this time we would also regularly see the major shops in the area (huge insta following, pro team riders, massive online shops, etc..) constantly posting the arrival of new NHS goods. when we would email our rep about it, again, shrugs it off. When i asked him to please notify us if any product is ever available for us to order, he told us to order from Eastern, which is over 2000 miles away. multiple requests for notification of availability of product, never given such courtesy. we aint the hottest shop in town but we've been around for quite a while, day one account with NHS.
Very cold, non core, corporate establishment with very coveted and essential skate product. its really too bad we cant survive without indys or mob grip or else we wouldve ditched NHS years ago (to be fair we mostly order NHS thru secondary distributions at this point)
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What are they gonna do with all that money they made this year?
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they were one of the only suppliers we have that was actively selling direct to consumer at full price, while offering literally nothing to us on B2B (business to business, wholesale) . Wholesale site would be blacked out with every item "N/A" while the fun factory DTC website had almost everything you could think of. full pages of decks, trucks, wheels, grip etc. Absolutely nothing for shops. When we emailed our rep about it, he essentially just shrugged it off and said it is what it is at this point. product for DTC, none for shops. this held up for the majority of 2020 and a good chunk of 2021.
That is pretty fucked. No wonder my local shop sells Indys and basically nothing else from NHS.
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no thanks truck nuts
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Their boards are heavy, And as an adult black man the whole of nhs gives me racist vibes. This is all i can add.
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Nhs is just kinda meh.
Had 1 SC and hated it in like 2014. But their team is good. Blake Johnson and fabby Braun are all fun to watch I don’t mind knibbs. They all are talented. I think as someone posted earlier let sc be old bowl dudes and legacy guys and make a cooler deck company with the younger street dudes. Would skate their boat shape but would spray over the dot
Currently on an 8.8 creature stumps and love it.
Previously had 1 creature in like 2013 or 14 and the wood felt soggy and splintered and chipped fast. But one session in on the 8.8 stump and it’s great. I assume quality has gone up. Really enjoying it and creatures team and history is pretty sick.
Typically skate Indy then ace then back to Indy. It’s a good jack of all trades master of none truck.
Never skated OJ. But nomads seem cool
Never skated Krux. Just no printed trucks. Seems kooky
I like mob but I wish there was a mob like grip not under nhs. Not sure my reason. I just feel like the corporate nhs part irks me to support them.
Bronson suck.
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I miss my polka dot krux
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I used to ride a lot of Creature and Santa Cruz decks. Last Creature I bought was in 2019. I was looking at a Willis Kimbel deck at the shop the other day and it seemed like the quality has gone down significantly. I ended up getting my first Madness deck instead (really nice)
Independents grind really nice, but they’re really unstable if you want to ride them loose. They’d be great if I rode my trucks on the tighter side. I prefer Aces for the combination of stability while also being able to get nice deep turns
OJ makes the best cruiser wheels. I haven’t tried the elite wheels, but I’d give them a shot.
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I still ride Indy. The bushings are garbage.
They really should, and I have said this for years, use today’s technology in an older stage truck. Let’s Rowley sort it out. Give him what he would actually ride. With a version based around the bones bushings.
The money they must make for Powell around bushings is crae.
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I still ride Indy. The bushings are garbage.
They really should, and I have said this for years, use today’s technology in an older stage truck. Let’s Rowley sort it out. Give him what he would actually ride. With a version based around the bones bushings.
The money they must make for Powell around bushings is crae.
I ride Indys and I love the stock medium bushings. They perform excellently with the trucks and last longer than any Bones bushings I've ever owned, which tend to blow out for me in a matter of days sometimes. I do usually end up replacing the bushings at some point during the life of the truck, but that's like $6 and they break in within an hour or two.
The "old stage" Indy is the Ace, which is effectively a clone of the Stage III. The story goes that Joey Tershay even brought the idea to NHS, and when they turned him down, he went and had the thing made himself. Ultimately I think Indy is correct not to dilute their brand with different shaped trucks. Just imagine the costs to tool up for a full size run of new trucks (which costs several hundred thousand dollars), only in order to make a new version of a truck you already replaced two decades ago. Who is the market for this, especially when you've got Ace already out there? People who want to use Bones bushings?
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Does anyone outside of the US give a shit about USA made?
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The products are good quality but the marketing for all their brands just doesn't draw me especially Santa Cruz and Krux. Wish Santa Cruz would go back to that knot logo they had in the early 00's and stopped relying on the likes on Tom Asta and Maurio McCoy rocking the screaming hand. Thats not there era/style/aesthetic at all.
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The products are good quality but the marketing for all their brands just doesn't draw me especially Santa Cruz and Krux. Wish Santa Cruz would go back to that knot logo they had in the early 00's and stopped relying on the likes on Tom Asta and Maurio McCoy rocking the screaming hand. Thats not there era/style/aesthetic at all.
I liked the Knot logo too…
Miss the Erik (Eric) Bork era of SC.
Wooten is an absolute beast in person though…
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I like Mob grip, I think Jessup does the job just as well though.
Indy's are solid but not my favorite truck.
The board brands just don't appeal to me.
Like others have mentioned they do support many people I do like though and that I can appreciate,
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Every other distro has much cooler brands and vibe and graphics and teams and marketing and literally everything but NHS seems to Dad the other ones and nobody can overthrow them... (DLX, Baker Boys, Tum Yeto, Dwindle.....)
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-Indys are my trucks (149's) I love that they give me a little wheelbite when I land too hard (yeah Im weird but thats how I skate), also had Krux; they were OK but I stick to Indys
-Mob works, sometimes its overpriced at my country but its OK. Never buy their transparent griptape, a little dust or water and you are dancing on those big grains, this probably happens with every brand btw
-Their wheels are shit, especially Rictas, I've been a victim of their ease to squareness
-Never ever cared to try creature or santacruz, a friend recently skated a creature and lasted 2 short sessions till the tail broke dramatically (ok he landed bad but he went through it like it was nothing and it was a flat ground trick ;D )
they make good trucks, thats it
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Does anyone outside of the US give a shit about USA made?
Not really
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NHS has some good stuff, like Bronson raw have been the ideal bearing in my experience, however their clothing materials for nearly all their brands have been garbage in my experience
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The products are good quality but the marketing for all their brands just doesn't draw me especially Santa Cruz and Krux. Wish Santa Cruz would go back to that knot logo they had in the early 00's and stopped relying on the likes on Tom Asta and Maurio McCoy rocking the screaming hand. Thats not there era/style/aesthetic at all.
I liked the Knot logo too…
Miss the Erik (Eric) Bork era of SC.
Wooten is an absolute beast in person though…
Yeah Im thinking like Jayme Fortune, Eric Bork, Stacey Lowery that era. I like several current riders for SC but the brand is stuck in the past and a lot of dudes on SC would fit much better on other brands.
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Santa Cruz lost sight of what made them great at the height of their power imo. They were the punk alternative to the clean cut Bones Brigade. For me the brand should have a more Hesh vibe, drop people like Asta and focus more on skaters like Winkowski. Issue with this would be the overlap with Creature.
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NH-Ass. (JK, I buy some NHS stuff here and there, but the branding is corny as hell.)
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Does anyone outside of the US give a shit about USA made?
There are a few guys here in AU who are all about the USA made Indy trucks and will not touch anything without the stamp. I would never take them for USA supporters as there is little patriotism for anything, or so it seems, but maybe they are misguided or the misinformation got to them about how Indy trucks that are made elsewhere are rubbish.
Whatever floats your boat guys, but as far as the new ones, they all skate the same and will not cost you extra now they are getting progressively harder to find.
I think more people have been wary of the lack of logo on the front of the baseplate, than where the trucks are made, with at least one saying he didn't want the fake ones (without the logo) and only wanted the real ones...
Had to show the Independent Trucks instagram showing no baseplate logo to convince him that is how they are doing things now, but he still didn't seem that keen on them.
Go figure.
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Skating a Creature right now. Haven’t had it for that long but so far it still feels pretty decent, but one thing I did notice is it’s getting all dented n chipped up a lot easier than the BBS boards I usually skate, skating the same prefab park that I normally skate too. The BBS boards I usually skate don’t really dent or chip at all actually. With this creature tho, if my board accidentally runs into the side of the ledge or lands primo on the edge or something, instant dent. It’s still skating alright but definitely a sign of weaker wood. Will probably just stick with BBS boards after the creature runs it’s course.
As far as for other NHS products:
Indys: love em. They were the only trucks I skated for more than a decade straight. Been on ventures now for the past couple years tho which I also love, but I will not hesitate to put back on my set of beat up stage 11s if the board I’m skating calls for it, haven’t had to in a while tho but they’re ready.
Bronson: I broke a couple bearings last year at the park and I asked this random skater if he had a couple he could spare and he gave me a couple lightly used Bronsons. Not sure what kind they are (G3’s maybe?) but they’re still running strong in my front left wheel to this day. Don’t really have much else of an opinion on Bronson other than that.
Mob: not bad when it’s not peeling up on you or cracking on you or creasing up on you half the time.
OJs: had a friend who had a set of their elite formula wheels. I got on his board and rode around for a bit and tried a couple powerslides; they felt grippy and slow. Made me glad I was riding formula fours.
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Creature - not big on their graphics, but their boards are great
Santa Cruz - I haven't tried their boards, but it would be cool if they went back to the early 2000's logo, I could rock that
Bronson - I know most people on here hate Bronson's, but I've had some G2's for a while and they're great
Ricta - had a pair of the All-Star's (I think that's what the name is) and they wore out really quick and flatspotted. I'd be willing to try out the clouds for a cruiser though
Indy - still got mine, haven't had any issues, may switch to Ace at some point once I wear em down
Krux - I'm not big on Krux's graphic trucks and damn near every poser has a pair of them, but I may give 'em a shot one day
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With 7, or so years of being pro for Santa Cruz/NHS, I still have love for them. They should’ve stuck with the old school logo instead of the regular “Knot” logo.. during my time with them the pros had a lot of say and control when it came down to the team, board graphics and advertising. Jeff Kendall was always a straight up guy, shit, I got a royalty check from them 6 months ago for a couple of old ass clips they re-used thanks to Jeff being a stand up guy. I always respected the fact that they gave mike Frazier a pro-spot on the team and they listened to the team when we asked them to put Alex Moul on.. when I got booted/left the team the TM at the time could’ve just been honest with me on the reason they cut my salary and wanted to get rid of me, I never understood why they couldn’t just tell me the truth about it (in hindsight of course)..Other than that, it was my 2nd favorite sponsor I’ve ever had (next to riding for ATM, who was awesome to travel with along with the other random dudes that went on tours with us and John falhee took a big chance on me back in “98 when I was a piled out, late teen, pessimist a-hole) anyway, I liked being on Santa Cruz, I know that the era that I rode for them they consider the lowest point of the company’s history, but it was still a great time and good memories.