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Skateboarding => USELESS WOODEN TOY BANTER => Topic started by: Back to 0 on November 04, 2008, 05:16:46 AM
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The effects of the economic crisis...
""We’ve been getting unconfirmed word today regarding recent lay-offs at some of the industry’s biggest brands. Podium Distribution reportedly laid off approximately 20 people on Friday, October 31, 2008. Similar lay-offs were also rumored at Black Box, Osiris, and Sole Tech."
read more here: http://www.boardistan.com/?p=2332
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i just hope that the skate industry downsize just enof to kill all the mtv skate relate show and all the hipster would stop buying skate shoes
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yeah! back to the roots
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I'm praying that skateboarding becomes what it was in via 1990's
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I only support local brands board and wheel wise,when it comes to shoes and trucks i only get indys and vans.
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id rather work full time in a skate shop than go get a job i hate....so im hoping things dont get too bad.
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I see A long term backlash awaiting.
Shoe companies will all be begging to sell to footlocker and other assorted mall stores.
The economy will cause aging and doing nothing pros to fall by the wayside,tightening the sompanies belts again.
And all the kids who dream of getting hooked up will have that much tougher of a time getting anywhere.
I'm guessing we will see a significant drop in skateboarders in the next 24 months.
It will be good though as most left will be in it for themselves. Sales will be down for most everyone.
Only the small survive.
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I haven't noticed a decline in sales at all, if anything its been an increase.
I only support local brands board and wheel wise,when it comes to shoes and trucks i only get indys and vans.
As for every "Soul Skater" claiming they only wear vans.
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Vans-Inc-Company-History.html (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Vans-Inc-Company-History.html)
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Same for us actually, well this month has been kinda slow but for the year we are way up.
I meant more company wide, as local scenes build I think shops will push there inhouse stuff harder as margins are better on shop decks and shirts.
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I haven't noticed a decline in sales at all, if anything its been an increase.
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I only support local brands board and wheel wise,when it comes to shoes and trucks i only get indys and vans.
As for every "Soul Skater" claiming they only wear vans.
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Vans-Inc-Company-History.html (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Vans-Inc-Company-History.html)
good read, skateshoes for only 2,49-4.99 damn!
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shit.
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Same for us actually, well this month has been kinda slow but for the year we are way up.
I meant more company wide, as local scenes build I think shops will push there inhouse stuff harder as margins are better on shop decks and shirts.
Im pumping mostly pro boards and lots of shoes/clothes. Snowboarding really helps us out as well, no shame in paying the bills i always say.
By the way, Im stoked your back Dave. ;D
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Same for us actually, well this month has been kinda slow but for the year we are way up.
I meant more company wide, as local scenes build I think shops will push there inhouse stuff harder as margins are better on shop decks and shirts.
Im pumping mostly pro boards and lots of shoes/clothes. Snowboarding really helps us out as well, no shame in paying the bills i always say.
By the way, Im stoked your back Dave. ;D
We just did a huge snow swap and made enough to pay all our early snow bills and cleared out tons of old stuff, made up the difference by having a ton of off priced gear too. We are def a skate shop that sells snow stuff, not the other way around.
Glad to be back, I couldn't stay away
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I haven't noticed a decline in sales at all, if anything its been an increase.
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I only support local brands board and wheel wise,when it comes to shoes and trucks i only get indys and vans.
As for every "Soul Skater" claiming they only wear vans.
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Vans-Inc-Company-History.html (http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Vans-Inc-Company-History.html)
Van Doren also pushed the company deeper into specialty sports footwear, developing baseball, football, umpiring, basketball, soccer, wrestling, boxing, and skydiving shoes.
Huh?
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Same for us actually, well this month has been kinda slow but for the year we are way up.
I meant more company wide, as local scenes build I think shops will push there inhouse stuff harder as margins are better on shop decks and shirts.
Im pumping mostly pro boards and lots of shoes/clothes. Snowboarding really helps us out as well, no shame in paying the bills i always say.
By the way, Im stoked your back Dave. ;D
Glad to be back, I couldn't stay away
Same here man, we did our local snow swap and killed it. Now if we get a good season it will make iteasy to get rid of the rest of our 08/09. Libtech is making us so much fucking money this year, its all banana this and banana that.
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Marriner S. Eccles, who served as Franklin D. Roosevelt's Chairman of the Federal Reserve from November 1934 to February 1948, detailed what he believed caused the Depression in his memoirs, Beckoning Frontiers (New York, Alfred A. Knopf, 1951)[24]:
As mass production has to be accompanied by mass consumption, mass consumption, in turn, implies a distribution of wealth -- not of existing wealth, but of wealth as it is currently produced -- to provide men with buying power equal to the amount of goods and services offered by the nation's economic machinery. [Emphasis in original.]
Instead of achieving that kind of distribution, a giant suction pump had by 1929-30 drawn into a few hands an increasing portion of currently produced wealth. This served them as capital accumulations. But by taking purchasing power out of the hands of mass consumers, the savers denied to themselves the kind of effective demand for their products that would justify a reinvestment of their capital accumulations in new plants. In consequence, as in a poker game where the chips were concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, the other fellows could stay in the game only by borrowing. When their credit ran out, the game stopped.
That is what happened to us in the twenties. We sustained high levels of employment in that period with the aid of an exceptional expansion of debt outside of the banking system. This debt was provided by the large growth of business savings as well as savings by individuals, particularly in the upper-income groups where taxes were relatively low. Private debt outside of the banking system increased about fifty per cent. This debt, which was at high interest rates, largely took the form of mortgage debt on housing, office, and hotel structures, consumer installment debt, brokers' loans, and foreign debt. The stimulation to spend by debt-creation of this sort was short-lived and could not be counted on to sustain high levels of employment for long periods of time. Had there been a better distribution of the current income from the national product -- in other words, had there been less savings by business and the higher-income groups and more income in the lower groups -- we should have had far greater stability in our economy. Had the six billion dollars, for instance, that were loaned by corporations and wealthy individuals for stock-market speculation been distributed to the public as lower prices or higher wages and with less profits to the corporations and the well-to-do, it would have prevented or greatly moderated the economic collapse that began at the end of 1929.
The time came when there were no more poker chips to be loaned on credit. Debtors thereupon were forced to curtail their consumption in an effort to create a margin that could be applied to the reduction of outstanding debts. This naturally reduced the demand for goods of all kinds and brought on what seemed to be overproduction, but was in reality underconsumption when judged in terms of the real world instead of the money world. This, in turn, brought about a fall in prices and employment.
Unemployment further decreased the consumption of goods, which further increased unemployment, thus closing the circle in a continuing decline of prices. Earnings began to disappear, requiring economies of all kinds in the wages, salaries, and time of those employed. And thus again the vicious circle of deflation was closed until one third of the entire working population was unemployed, with our national income reduced by fifty per cent, and with the aggregate debt burden greater than ever before, not in dollars, but measured by current values and income that represented the ability to pay. Fixed charges, such as taxes, railroad and other utility rates, insurance and interest charges, clung close to the 1929 level and required such a portion of the national income to meet them that the amount left for consumption of goods was not sufficient to support the population.
This then, was my reading of what brought on the depression.
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the recession in consumer goods will be taking an up turn real soon. combine deflation which will be driven by lower gas prices (assuming they stay low, which i think they might) with obama's tax cut and you there is no way you don't get more consumer spending on shit like skate shoes.
bubble isn't bursting, it's just going with the flow
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That is kinda funny that podium is laying off employees while they build a massive TF. Hmmmmmm...
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Same for us actually, well this month has been kinda slow but for the year we are way up.
I meant more company wide, as local scenes build I think shops will push there inhouse stuff harder as margins are better on shop decks and shirts.
Im pumping mostly pro boards and lots of shoes/clothes. Snowboarding really helps us out as well, no shame in paying the bills i always say.
By the way, Im stoked your back Dave. ;D
Glad to be back, I couldn't stay away
Same here man, we did our local snow swap and killed it. Now if we get a good season it will make iteasy to get rid of the rest of our 08/09. Libtech is making us so much fucking money this year, its all banana this and banana that.
sk8 banannas have been slow but the skunk ape and t rice are selling really well. Lib tech is easily our best selling board brand for sure.
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20 employees! that is like their whole company!!!! prolly got like 4 warehouse guys, 4 sales guys, 2 top guys, 4 manufacturing guys, chick to answer the phone, and like 5 marketing guys. like really, how many more people do they need besides the skaterS? i guess they all have art deparments now and stuff. i liked it better when the skater did the graphics. id liek to see a wu graphic.
Yo, wassup with the Wu? Is the outcome getttin critical, fuckin wit my style is sorta like a maricle?
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maybe dvs should just drop their wake and racing car teams.
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You all are so horrible at estimating the size and scope of these companies. You think DVS produces all of those shoes with "four manufacturing guys"? LOL.
I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
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The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
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I hope Mike V and other kooks get sucked down as well.
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You all are so horrible at estimating the size and scope of these companies. You think DVS produces all of those shoes with "four manufacturing guys"? LOL.
I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
Dude, it is four guys, Tim Gavin, Deawon Song, Jeron Wilson, and Daniel Castillo. Cheeks just gets payed. I heard a long ass time ago that DVS stands for Donna Vanessa Song, anybody else hear that?
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I'm no longer getting care packages from Tum Yeto. Total bummer. From a skateboarder's perspective, I'm glad the bubble is bursting.
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The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
it will be nice to see the industry washed clean, all the people lving off image will be swept away and people with heart and skill will carry on.
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The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
as much as we'd like it to happen, i doubt it will. some of the folks that we don't dig, do love skating as much as anyone else. they also happen to like the money side as well. i'm hoping that the corporations that had no interest in skating 5 years ago go away. but it'll be harder on the pros who depend on those not-so-rad sponsors. we may see good companies go bye-bye, we may see the smaller companies come out of this stronger, we may amazing skaters having to get real jobs. who knows, but as long as we skate, shit will still be around.
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Am i the only person that doesn't want skateboarders to go broke? I want corporations to pump even more money into skateboarding. The more money companies have, the more likely they are to give me free shit for skateboarding.
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As long as there are pools, there'll be pool skating!
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Am i the only person that doesn't want skateboarders to go broke? I want corporations to pump even more money into skateboarding. The more money companies have, the more likely they are to give me free shit for skateboarding.
This is the mentality that most kids have I noticed, the realization that the chance of getting hooked up is even slimmer than before may slim skateboarding down big time.
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Yes, don't care about free shit, or the skaters that are getting paid now, or most skaters in general. Just bring back slicks, good graphics, good original art direction, and videos that are actually fun to watch.
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Am i the only person that doesn't want skateboarders to go broke? I want corporations to pump even more money into skateboarding. The more money companies have, the more likely they are to give me free shit for skateboarding.
A little selfish are we?
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Am i the only person that doesn't want skateboarders to go broke? I want corporations to pump even more money into skateboarding. The more money companies have, the more likely they are to give me free shit for skateboarding.
A little selfish are we?
naaah, he's just typical and young. a shame though that that's become typical.
k
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Stoaked if it finally dies down.
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I better not lose my B- team status.
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I just hope Doug isn't affect by this :-[
(http://www.landwaveproducts.com/images/upload/items/Doug-Brown2.jpg)
Edit: Ok, I grabbed the first photo I saw but then I'm like WTF?!?! Someone stacked milk crates and is making money off selling them. Industry, you need to contract a bit.
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Someone run that guy over asap.
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I just hope Doug isn't affect by this :-[
(http://www.landwaveproducts.com/images/upload/items/Doug-Brown2.jpg)
Edit: Ok, I grabbed the first photo I saw but then I'm like WTF?!?! Someone stacked milk crates and is making money off selling them. Industry, you need to contract a bit.
holy fucking shit
is that really a ad?
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Active cut so many employees. They cut the warehouse dudes (that actually skated), mailorder dudes (that actually skated), and all the inventory managers. Plus each employee got a five percent pay cut. Now when you order from this disgusting company, the package you get wont be packed by skateboarders but by mexican temp agencies illegal women. This is real talk!
P.S. its not like this company had a good rep anyways, just thought i would share with you all.
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Am i the only person that doesn't want skateboarders to go broke? I want corporations to pump even more money into skateboarding. The more money companies have, the more likely they are to give me free shit for skateboarding.
A little selfish are we?
naaah, he's just typical and young. a shame though that that's become typical.
k
I'm sorry, but i have a job and i realize that working is quite possibly the worst thing ever. If i didn't have to get a job to support my skateboarding i wouldn't even care about getting hooked up. Another thing If it's downsized this means most of slap's favorite skateboarders' salaries are getting cut. Just because those dudes are popular on here doesn't mean anyone in the real world gives 2 shits about those niggas.
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I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
I am curious who are these "hipsters that don't actually skate" you are always complaining about? I really can't think of any pros that don't skate and therefore would be cut because of the industry downsizing.
Yeah, maybe a few "pros" will be cut, but for the most part the real people being hurt are the guys working in the warehouse, doing sales, working at the shops etc. and more often than not these are the guys that "actually skate". I would be great if only the BS phony skate companies that go out of business, but so far it seems like a lot of good companies (listen for example) will also be destroyed in this mess. making this "bursting bubble" not as cool as a lot of people think.
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More than likely, it's simply be a case of "If you make us more more money than you cost, you can stay." Seems to be the way it is in every other industry. I doubt how core or hip a person is matters too much.
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I am curious who are these "hipsters that don't actually skate" you are always complaining about? I really can't think of any pros that don't skate and therefore would be cut because of the industry downsizing.
Yeah, maybe a few "pros" will be cut, but for the most part the real people being hurt are the guys working in the warehouse, doing sales, working at the shops etc. and more often than not these are the guys that "actually skate". I would be great if only the BS phony skate companies that go out of business, but so far it seems like a lot of good companies (listen for example) will also be destroyed in this mess. making this "bursting bubble" not as cool as a lot of people think.
Good point.
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I cant believe some of you guys rejoicing in people losing their jobs doing something they love just so skating can be considered 'underground'.
Skateboarding should be what YOU make it.
There has always been 'business' trying to exploit it since it began, and I doubt that will go away soon.
No one seems to be taking into consideration that this downturn will probably affect your favorite skater owned companies and mom and pop shops the most. The mega corps have enough money to try and weather the storm.
If it were not for the 'hipsters and casual skateboarders' these layoffs would probably be more than triple the size.
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I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
I am curious who are these "hipsters that don't actually skate" you are always complaining about? I really can't think of any pros that don't skate and therefore would be cut because of the industry downsizing.
Yeah, maybe a few "pros" will be cut, but for the most part the real people being hurt are the guys working in the warehouse, doing sales, working at the shops etc. and more often than not these are the guys that "actually skate". I would be great if only the BS phony skate companies that go out of business, but so far it seems like a lot of good companies (listen for example) will also be destroyed in this mess. making this "bursting bubble" not as cool as a lot of people think.
Hipsters are the dead weight leeching off the industry thanks to the "bro system". They're just random "friends of friends" of pros, flow kids and their buddies, etc. They take tons of free product, get jobs that companies only create for them to have because they are so "down," etc. When you've got all of this extra weight, it drives the price of your goods up. That's why there is such a disparity between the price of a blank board and a graphic board, even when they are produced in the same place.
And yeah, some little guys are going to go under. So what? Being cool does not entitle you to an easy living doing participating in a recreational activity. A large part of the problems we are having today are due to this false sense of entitlement a lot of skateboarders suddenly have. If these guys care about it so much, they can do it while going to school and having a job like the rest of us. I don't have any sympathy for them.
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I still don't understand why you call leeches 'hipsters'? how they hip?
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I just hope Doug isn't affect by this :-[
(http://www.landwaveproducts.com/images/upload/items/Doug-Brown2.jpg)
Edit: Ok, I grabbed the first photo I saw but then I'm like WTF?!?! Someone stacked milk crates and is making money off selling them. Industry, you need to contract a bit.
he landed that?
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I think they photoshopped the trampoline he was bouncing on out of the image.
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I still don't understand why you call leeches 'hipsters'? how they hip?
It's just a derogatory term I assign to all of them. Most of them are hipsters and "sneaker heads," and other gay shit like that.
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they should stop firing people and start spending more money on pushing their brand and letting their consumers as well as their investors know that they aren't going anywhere.
spending drives the economy but by making cutbacks, they are more or less leading themselves into a recession and eventual bankruptcy. but hey thats just 1 mans opinion.
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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.
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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.
the problem with this is that usually 1 guy doesn't want to do 3 peoples jobs. they'll tolerate the workload for a little while but it only a matter of time before they feel they're being slaved and unappreciated and they eventually quit.
i worked at a dotcom back in the days and thats pretty much what happened to me. they cut 2 people trying to save money which left me doing 3 peoples jobs for 1 persons pay. i did it for a little while expecting to get some sort of raise but i got nothing. they were paying the 2 people $100K combined. if they gave me a $25K raise they would've still save $75K and i would've been happy to stay but they weren't trying to give me shit. they expected me to work all 3 jobs on top of working on weekends since it was a huge workload. it didn't help being on salary since i was making the same money even if i work 60+ hours a week. unless you're desperate for work, you're going to quit, i quit.
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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.
the problem with this is that usually 1 guy doesn't want to do 3 peoples jobs. they'll tolerate the workload for a little while but it only a matter of time before they feel they're being slaved and unappreciated and they eventually quit.
i worked at a dotcom back in the days and thats pretty much what happened to me. they cut 2 people trying to save money which left me doing 3 peoples jobs for 1 persons pay. i did it for a little while expecting to get some sort of raise but i got nothing. they were paying the 2 people $100K combined. if they gave me a $25K raise they would've still save $75K and i would've been happy to stay but they weren't trying to give me shit. they expected me to work all 3 jobs on top of working on weekends since it was a huge workload. it didn't help being on salary since i was making the same money even if i work 60+ hours a week. unless you're desperate for work, you're going to quit, i quit.
A lot of the guys in this situation aren't exactly doing $100,000 worth of work though. Warehouse jobs and stuff like that are super easy if you can do physical labor, and I'm guessing here there were people who were taking a lot of downtime. Also, the skate industry is unique in this aspect -- people will quit at a dotcom because no one actually wants to work at EvilFaceless Incorporated. On the other hand, for the average dropout wannabe pro skater, working in a warehouse in California beside your favorite pros for forty hours a week is like a dream job. It's not much of a living for any of us, but they see it as being around skateboarding while still having enough money to actually eat once in a while.
I do feel bad for the migrant Mexican slaves Jamie Thomas "employed" and then kicked to the curb though. I don't think they get unemployment over there, and it's not like these people were making enough to actually be able to save anything.That is one good thing about Barack Obama being elected. This "free trade" bullshit is a huge scam, and when the rest of the world is under economic socialism, and wages there are artificially low, there is nothing "capitalist" about sending jobs over there. Unfair competition is just being placed on the American worker -- stifling wages and hurting consumer spending.
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I just hope Doug isn't affect by this :-[
(http://www.landwaveproducts.com/images/upload/items/Doug-Brown2.jpg)
Edit: Ok, I grabbed the first photo I saw but then I'm like WTF?!?! Someone stacked milk crates and is making money off selling them. Industry, you need to contract a bit.
I have a feeling Land Wave is in trouble. They've got some serious competition from...
(http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50175873/Bintangor_Plywood_Mr_E_1_E_2_WBP.jpg)
(http://www.advantagegrip.com/2008%20Images/milk_crate.gif)
Thank god he has knee pads on, that looks dangerous.
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hipsters....blank boards....i'm going back to the hockey thread.....
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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.
the problem with this is that usually 1 guy doesn't want to do 3 peoples jobs. they'll tolerate the workload for a little while but it only a matter of time before they feel they're being slaved and unappreciated and they eventually quit.
i worked at a dotcom back in the days and thats pretty much what happened to me. they cut 2 people trying to save money which left me doing 3 peoples jobs for 1 persons pay. i did it for a little while expecting to get some sort of raise but i got nothing. they were paying the 2 people $100K combined. if they gave me a $25K raise they would've still save $75K and i would've been happy to stay but they weren't trying to give me shit. they expected me to work all 3 jobs on top of working on weekends since it was a huge workload. it didn't help being on salary since i was making the same money even if i work 60+ hours a week. unless you're desperate for work, you're going to quit, i quit.
To clarify I wasn't agreeing that its the way of the world, just stating how I perceive things to be.
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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.
the problem with this is that usually 1 guy doesn't want to do 3 peoples jobs. they'll tolerate the workload for a little while but it only a matter of time before they feel they're being slaved and unappreciated and they eventually quit.
i worked at a dotcom back in the days and thats pretty much what happened to me. they cut 2 people trying to save money which left me doing 3 peoples jobs for 1 persons pay. i did it for a little while expecting to get some sort of raise but i got nothing. they were paying the 2 people $100K combined. if they gave me a $25K raise they would've still save $75K and i would've been happy to stay but they weren't trying to give me shit. they expected me to work all 3 jobs on top of working on weekends since it was a huge workload. it didn't help being on salary since i was making the same money even if i work 60+ hours a week. unless you're desperate for work, you're going to quit, i quit.
A lot of the guys in this situation aren't exactly doing $100,000 worth of work though. Warehouse jobs and stuff like that are super easy if you can do physical labor, and I'm guessing here there were people who were taking a lot of downtime. Also, the skate industry is unique in this aspect -- people will quit at a dotcom because no one actually wants to work at EvilFaceless Incorporated. On the other hand, for the average dropout wannabe pro skater, working in a warehouse in California beside your favorite pros for forty hours a week is like a dream job. It's not much of a living for any of us, but they see it as being around skateboarding while still having enough money to actually eat once in a while.
I do feel bad for the migrant Mexican slaves Jamie Thomas "employed" and then kicked to the curb though. I don't think they get unemployment over there, and it's not like these people were making enough to actually be able to save anything.That is one good thing about Barack Obama being elected. This "free trade" bullshit is a huge scam, and when the rest of the world is under economic socialism, and wages there are artificially low, there is nothing "capitalist" about sending jobs over there. Unfair competition is just being placed on the American worker -- stifling wages and hurting consumer spending.
Once again, Newton spewing about shit he knows nothing about.
-First off, we all know you don't feel bad for anyone, you've proved you're a selfish prick time and time again.
-Secondly, factories always fluctuate the number of employees they have due to the amount of work there is to be done. This is true anywhere in the world. Truth is, in Mexico the people are protected by the laws better than in most countries, while they don't have unemployment, all employees that are laid off have to be paid 90 days severance plus they're entitled to a certain amount of money for how long they've worked at the company.
-Lastly, regarding Nafta, minimum wage is dictated by the cost of living in a place, so there's nothing artificially low unless you're running illegal labor/not abiding by the laws.
...and at the at this point in the game, it's not a question of US vs. Mexico, it's a question of Mexico vs. China. It's very difficult to pay for overhead, market and promote a brand at the level needed to stay strong and give boards to shops for prices they need to make a margin getting 'all' of your boards made in the US. It basically only works for small brands with low overhead and minimal marketing commitments. Once you reach a certain size, the importance of maintaining a certain profit margin to keep the cash flow going in order to sustain business is crucial. It's called profit, but that doesn't mean you're taking bags of money home, it means you have money to pay your bills on time and give terms to the people that need it.
...you obviously need some life experience, but I'll give you that you're an expert in 'idealism'!
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I usually skip newtons posts, props for actually reading them.
Good luck with the business!
My shops already dead and I am about 100.000 in debt now... (euros)(somebody buy my old crap!)
let you know the deal here in holland b4, sucks balls!
atleast skating is still good!
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I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
I am curious who are these "hipsters that don't actually skate" you are always complaining about? I really can't think of any pros that don't skate and therefore would be cut because of the industry downsizing.
Yeah, maybe a few "pros" will be cut, but for the most part the real people being hurt are the guys working in the warehouse, doing sales, working at the shops etc. and more often than not these are the guys that "actually skate". I would be great if only the BS phony skate companies that go out of business, but so far it seems like a lot of good companies (listen for example) will also be destroyed in this mess. making this "bursting bubble" not as cool as a lot of people think.
Hipsters are the dead weight leeching off the industry thanks to the "bro system". They're just random "friends of friends" of pros, flow kids and their buddies, etc. They take tons of free product, get jobs that companies only create for them to have because they are so "down," etc. When you've got all of this extra weight, it drives the price of your goods up. That's why there is such a disparity between the price of a blank board and a graphic board, even when they are produced in the same place.
And yeah, some little guys are going to go under. So what? Being cool does not entitle you to an easy living doing participating in a recreational activity. A large part of the problems we are having today are due to this false sense of entitlement a lot of skateboarders suddenly have. If these guys care about it so much, they can do it while going to school and having a job like the rest of us. I don't have any sympathy for them.
i don't know if this is the case outside of skateparks or skateshops, but fuckin a, man, skating and the "bro system" is what it's all about. Chilling with good people while share the good wealth. Kind of like how your gramps bought you a benz, except you simply present yourself as a spoiled prick.
Also, what kind of crew do you have? Any with which to participate in this recreational activity?
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I think its pretty obvious that he doesn't have any friends.
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I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
I am curious who are these "hipsters that don't actually skate" you are always complaining about? I really can't think of any pros that don't skate and therefore would be cut because of the industry downsizing.
Yeah, maybe a few "pros" will be cut, but for the most part the real people being hurt are the guys working in the warehouse, doing sales, working at the shops etc. and more often than not these are the guys that "actually skate". I would be great if only the BS phony skate companies that go out of business, but so far it seems like a lot of good companies (listen for example) will also be destroyed in this mess. making this "bursting bubble" not as cool as a lot of people think.
Hipsters are the dead weight leeching off the industry thanks to the "bro system". They're just random "friends of friends" of pros, flow kids and their buddies, etc. They take tons of free product, get jobs that companies only create for them to have because they are so "down," etc. When you've got all of this extra weight, it drives the price of your goods up. That's why there is such a disparity between the price of a blank board and a graphic board, even when they are produced in the same place.
And yeah, some little guys are going to go under. So what? Being cool does not entitle you to an easy living doing participating in a recreational activity. A large part of the problems we are having today are due to this false sense of entitlement a lot of skateboarders suddenly have. If these guys care about it so much, they can do it while going to school and having a job like the rest of us. I don't have any sympathy for them.
i don't know if this is the case outside of skateparks or skateshops, but fuckin a, man, skating and the "bro system" is what it's all about. Chilling with good people while share the good wealth. Kind of like how your gramps bought you a benz, except you simply present yourself as a spoiled prick.
Also, what kind of crew do you have? Any with which to participate in this recreational activity?
Actually dude, I've had some awkward moments with the whole "bro system".
Sometimes guys make assumptions about other skaters assuming everyone's on the same page or on the same mentality. I usually get along real well with the "bros" who don't take being a "bro" so seriously. Maybe I'm anit-bro, it seems some dudes cling-on to the whole "bro system" as if thats all they got, and I think with this spectacular moment in history that we're all living in, theres a little more going on than your status/image in the skate world, I mean who fucking cares, look at who just got elected President? Just skate and be nice and respect the OG's and I think thats it.
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Active cut so many employees. They cut the warehouse dudes (that actually skated), mailorder dudes (that actually skated), and all the inventory managers. Plus each employee got a five percent pay cut. Now when you order from this disgusting company, the package you get wont be packed by skateboarders but by mexican temp agencies illegal women. This is real talk!
P.S. its not like this company had a good rep anyways, just thought i would share with you all.
That sucks for the real skaters that skate that worked at Active. I shop at Liberty Board Shop because all the workers actually skateboard and it's ran by real skateboarders not some corporate bullshit. I see James Craig and Tom Krauser there all the time. Every once in a while I see Daewon Song setting up a board there too. The workers there are like family and they don't cut people like Wactive. Go shop at Furnace too there a real skateboard shop ran by skaters too.
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Hipsters are the dead weight leeching off the industry thanks to the "bro system". They're just random "friends of friends" of pros, flow kids and their buddies, etc. They take tons of free product, get jobs that companies only create for them to have because they are so "down," etc. When you've got all of this extra weight, it drives the price of your goods up. That's why there is such a disparity between the price of a blank board and a graphic board, even when they are produced in the same place.
And yeah, some little guys are going to go under. So what? Being cool does not entitle you to an easy living doing participating in a recreational activity.
There's a "bro system" in pretty much every business or industry...also, skating isn't really a meritocracy--like, there's no "bar exam" to be pro/sponsored, etc...
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smaller companies back in the day could adjust and downsize for something like this and theyd suruvive. the problem now is that there are so many corporations involved that when they dont see the money coming in they just pull the plug. i think things will be bad in every industry and skateboarding just happens to be in the middle of it. mom and pop dont have the money to buy jr a new board every week and if they do itll be blank or shop to stretch their dollars. as unemployment goes up (it went up today again) there will be less disposable income and higher bills to pay, less consumer confidence and less purchasing.
watch for the auto industry to go down first if they dont get a bailout (they likely will in the form of a low interest loan from the gov't) and then the airline industry will suffer next. after that is anyones guess but well see a lot of companies go down, less jobs, more competition for those jobs and lots and lots of people without an income.
skating will survive obviously but id say we'll be looking at about half of the companies that will be able to hang on. most of the industry revolves around pro skaters and models obviously its the only thing they offer other than what shop boards offer. i think well see more kids come up making youtube videos that will push skating on the local scene and shops will sell more blanks, shop decks and the industry will not be able to give away pro boards. videos obviously will take a hit too. bad invest ment at this point when pros arent driving the industry like they have in the past.
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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.
the problem with this is that usually 1 guy doesn't want to do 3 peoples jobs. they'll tolerate the workload for a little while but it only a matter of time before they feel they're being slaved and unappreciated and they eventually quit.
i worked at a dotcom back in the days and thats pretty much what happened to me. they cut 2 people trying to save money which left me doing 3 peoples jobs for 1 persons pay. i did it for a little while expecting to get some sort of raise but i got nothing. they were paying the 2 people $100K combined. if they gave me a $25K raise they would've still save $75K and i would've been happy to stay but they weren't trying to give me shit. they expected me to work all 3 jobs on top of working on weekends since it was a huge workload. it didn't help being on salary since i was making the same money even if i work 60+ hours a week. unless you're desperate for work, you're going to quit, i quit.
A lot of the guys in this situation aren't exactly doing $100,000 worth of work though. Warehouse jobs and stuff like that are super easy if you can do physical labor, and I'm guessing here there were people who were taking a lot of downtime. Also, the skate industry is unique in this aspect -- people will quit at a dotcom because no one actually wants to work at EvilFaceless Incorporated. On the other hand, for the average dropout wannabe pro skater, working in a warehouse in California beside your favorite pros for forty hours a week is like a dream job. It's not much of a living for any of us, but they see it as being around skateboarding while still having enough money to actually eat once in a while.
I do feel bad for the migrant Mexican slaves Jamie Thomas "employed" and then kicked to the curb though. I don't think they get unemployment over there, and it's not like these people were making enough to actually be able to save anything.That is one good thing about Barack Obama being elected. This "free trade" bullshit is a huge scam, and when the rest of the world is under economic socialism, and wages there are artificially low, there is nothing "capitalist" about sending jobs over there. Unfair competition is just being placed on the American worker -- stifling wages and hurting consumer spending.
-First off, we all know you don't feel bad for anyone, you've proved you're a selfish prick time and time again.
...you obviously need some life experience, but I'll give you that you're an expert in 'idealism'!
Amen
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I usually skip newtons posts, props for actually reading them.
Good luck with the business!
My shops already dead and I am about 100.000 in debt now... (euros)(somebody buy my old crap!)
let you know the deal here in holland b4, sucks balls!
atleast skating is still good!
Man, I'm sorry to hear that. Good luck though.
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i'm glad i saved all my checks from skate camp this summer. it's not much, but i definately look out for what i buy. sale shoes, utilizing skate goods till they don't work, scraps. i lost the drive to buy skate clothes a long time ago. i wish i had the money to ball out but my mind has been conditioned that less is more. however a good pair of skate shoes is always well worth it.
i honestly don't know how companies and shops and keep shit going awesome, just creating an atmosphere that invites skateboarding and its creativity... i guess the shops that play the cool guy card won't survive, bringing in new customers is key, and creating relationships with the ones you have. i mean really getting to know your customer over just being quiet behind the counter when they walk in. i've never run a shop though, only worked at them so i am sure it can be pretty stressful situation. we all know skateboarding will never die, but i guess maybe the skate ballers will just slow down. fuck, i don't know, i just like to skateboard and not worry about that type of thing but it would definately be a bummer if my local shop closed down.
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so what exactly went down at blackbox? ive heard everything from the entire warehouse being canned and cheaper mexican labor brought in to Fallen calling it quits :o
Over the past 6 months we've had to lay off about 10 people and 5 or more moved on to do other things.
...the rest is just rumors.
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I'm glad it's falling apart. The skate industry needs a good, stiff recession to balance out the hipsters with the people that actually skate. A bunch of these skaters need a good dose of reality also.
I am curious who are these "hipsters that don't actually skate" you are always complaining about? I really can't think of any pros that don't skate and therefore would be cut because of the industry downsizing.
Yeah, maybe a few "pros" will be cut, but for the most part the real people being hurt are the guys working in the warehouse, doing sales, working at the shops etc. and more often than not these are the guys that "actually skate". I would be great if only the BS phony skate companies that go out of business, but so far it seems like a lot of good companies (listen for example) will also be destroyed in this mess. making this "bursting bubble" not as cool as a lot of people think.
Hipsters are the dead weight leeching off the industry thanks to the "bro system". They're just random "friends of friends" of pros, flow kids and their buddies, etc. They take tons of free product, get jobs that companies only create for them to have because they are so "down," etc. When you've got all of this extra weight, it drives the price of your goods up. That's why there is such a disparity between the price of a blank board and a graphic board, even when they are produced in the same place.
And yeah, some little guys are going to go under. So what? Being cool does not entitle you to an easy living doing participating in a recreational activity. A large part of the problems we are having today are due to this false sense of entitlement a lot of skateboarders suddenly have. If these guys care about it so much, they can do it while going to school and having a job like the rest of us. I don't have any sympathy for them.
i don't know if this is the case outside of skateparks or skateshops, but fuckin a, man, skating and the "bro system" is what it's all about. Chilling with good people while share the good wealth. Kind of like how your gramps bought you a benz, except you simply present yourself as a spoiled prick.
Also, what kind of crew do you have? Any with which to participate in this recreational activity?
Actually dude, I've had some awkward moments with the whole "bro system".
Sometimes guys make assumptions about other skaters assuming everyone's on the same page or on the same mentality. I usually get along real well with the "bros" who don't take being a "bro" so seriously. Maybe I'm anit-bro, it seems some dudes cling-on to the whole "bro system" as if thats all they got, and I think with this spectacular moment in history that we're all living in, theres a little more going on than your status/image in the skate world, I mean who fucking cares, look at who just got elected President? Just skate and be nice and respect the OG's and I think thats it.
Hey man, i can see what you're saying, maybe we're not even on the same page here. When i'm talking about "bros" i'm talking about my homies. If ive got something good to give, i'm going to hook my people the fuck up, so long as they're not being shit bags.
I'm fuckin wicked out of the loop with this shit i guess, status/image mean absolutely nothing to me. I just skate with my friends and if i meet new people, then fuck yeah, but if not, i could really care less. i've been skating for half of my life at this point, that's what it's about, skating more.
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ugghh, i actually have to agree with newton here i think(not the blackbox and mexican employee stuff). maybe there wasnt room for many of these small board companies in the first place and even though i like alot of them, it probably wouldnt bother me for much longer than a day if they went out of business. on the positive side of things, when energy drink companies profit starts going down you think theyre gonna hesitate to pull the plug on whatever skating endorsement they have going? i guess this turned out to be a pretty pointless post, but i know alot of you were born in the 90s and are part of this disposable generation, so act like it, i guess.
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Bummer.
that tre flip photo is too crazy
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Industry going to shit..... OHHH NO! WE HAVE TO GET REAL JOBS NOW! FUCK! WE ALL DROPPED OUT OF SCHOOL TO GET SPONSORED! WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO NOW???
Fuck you, get a real job, if you though this shit was going to last forever you're a fucking moron. The economy is in the shitter and this could very well be the downfall of the skateboard industry many of us 'non-industry' types have been praying for the last few years. I'd be happy if half of the 'industry' went out of business.... Fuck these Etnies wearing 'skate-mom' whores. I'm sick of seeing cloned skateparks surrounded with 12 foot bars that look like a prison. I'd much rather be getting chased out of a school yard than wearing elbow pads and trying to learn piviot fakies with 57 12 year olds trying to look cool and getting in my way while their 10 year old girlfriends talk about Sheckler.
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Stay Pure, Stay Poor
if you are already close to the bottom you dont have as far to fall
as long as you kow how to land on your feet you can take a hit and keep rolling
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Fuck these Etnies wearing 'skate-mom' whores.
there is nothing wrong with whores wearing etnies
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If you compare this to the industry crash which coincided with the 1990-1991 recession, the corporations were the first to go.
Big chains like Foot Locker sell on volume, they don't want to invest in product that doesn't sell. But the fact that skate fashion has become somewhat removed from its function means that if non-skaters continue to buy skate shoes for whatever reason(everyone needs shoes), they'll keep selling them. If not, they'll drop them for something else. Airwalk, which had started out with only corporate accounts in the mid '80s, were no longer in Mervyn's in 1991 and on the shelves of mom 'n pops.
I'm looking through a December '91 Transworld and the only corporate advertisement are for an L.A. Guns record and a Good 'n Fruity snowboard contest series. Struggling pros were scrambling to start new small companies, usually through existing manufacturers and "distributors" who'd lost their touch with the youth. Although Rocco was pretty much running things by that point, New Deal was still fairly new, as well as Acme, Black Label, Planet Earth, and Alien Workshop. Eventually, you'd see a whole slew of small companies.
That said, the industry is much different than it was in 1990. Converse was the only big shoe company to have a team, and a small one at that. Independent shops, many of the surf variety, were much more prevalent, while real skate shop owners had more of an emotional and personal investment to skateboarding. Pac Sun had dabbled in skateboards before, but it was far too esoteric to keep up with back then.
Because of these differences, I see a huge void on the retail end when Active shuts down shops (that destroyed other local shops) and when Pac Sun goes returns to tank tops and sunglasses. Smaller companies will find it harder to get accounts. Of course, the internet wasn't around in '91, however, I have yet to see independent skate shops use it to its full potential. Nike will keep pushing skateboarding as long as they can milk it, but I see little development with Adidas, Puma, etc. For some reason, I see the DLX camp as the only one coming out of this fairly unscathed.
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Any good business man will tell you a sure fire way to conserve capital is to reduce your spending.
Employee's are always the first line to go. I agree that your idea sounds good but when we know you can have 1 person do the work that 2 or 3 usually do then it makes the decision that much easier.
Only problem is then a lot of stuff falls by the wayside.
the problem with this is that usually 1 guy doesn't want to do 3 peoples jobs. they'll tolerate the workload for a little while but it only a matter of time before they feel they're being slaved and unappreciated and they eventually quit.
i worked at a dotcom back in the days and thats pretty much what happened to me. they cut 2 people trying to save money which left me doing 3 peoples jobs for 1 persons pay. i did it for a little while expecting to get some sort of raise but i got nothing. they were paying the 2 people $100K combined. if they gave me a $25K raise they would've still save $75K and i would've been happy to stay but they weren't trying to give me shit. they expected me to work all 3 jobs on top of working on weekends since it was a huge workload. it didn't help being on salary since i was making the same money even if i work 60+ hours a week. unless you're desperate for work, you're going to quit, i quit.
A lot of the guys in this situation aren't exactly doing $100,000 worth of work though. Warehouse jobs and stuff like that are super easy if you can do physical labor, and I'm guessing here there were people who were taking a lot of downtime. Also, the skate industry is unique in this aspect -- people will quit at a dotcom because no one actually wants to work at EvilFaceless Incorporated. On the other hand, for the average dropout wannabe pro skater, working in a warehouse in California beside your favorite pros for forty hours a week is like a dream job. It's not much of a living for any of us, but they see it as being around skateboarding while still having enough money to actually eat once in a while.
I do feel bad for the migrant Mexican slaves Jamie Thomas "employed" and then kicked to the curb though. I don't think they get unemployment over there, and it's not like these people were making enough to actually be able to save anything.That is one good thing about Barack Obama being elected. This "free trade" bullshit is a huge scam, and when the rest of the world is under economic socialism, and wages there are artificially low, there is nothing "capitalist" about sending jobs over there. Unfair competition is just being placed on the American worker -- stifling wages and hurting consumer spending.
Once again, Newton spewing about shit he knows nothing about.
-First off, we all know you don't feel bad for anyone, you've proved you're a selfish prick time and time again.
-Secondly, factories always fluctuate the number of employees they have due to the amount of work there is to be done. This is true anywhere in the world. Truth is, in Mexico the people are protected by the laws better than in most countries, while they don't have unemployment, all employees that are laid off have to be paid 90 days severance plus they're entitled to a certain amount of money for how long they've worked at the company.
-Lastly, regarding Nafta, minimum wage is dictated by the cost of living in a place, so there's nothing artificially low unless you're running illegal labor/not abiding by the laws.
...and at the at this point in the game, it's not a question of US vs. Mexico, it's a question of Mexico vs. China. It's very difficult to pay for overhead, market and promote a brand at the level needed to stay strong and give boards to shops for prices they need to make a margin getting 'all' of your boards made in the US. It basically only works for small brands with low overhead and minimal marketing commitments. Once you reach a certain size, the importance of maintaining a certain profit margin to keep the cash flow going in order to sustain business is crucial. It's called profit, but that doesn't mean you're taking bags of money home, it means you have money to pay your bills on time and give terms to the people that need it.
...you obviously need some life experience, but I'll give you that you're an expert in 'idealism'!
Here is some life experience for you: seven years ago I could walk into a skate shop, and out of every board on the wall, only two would've been made in foreign countries. In 2002, when Dwindle finally admitted to making boards in China, it was an considered an outrage. Now, I am sitting here just six years later, reading about how I am "idealistic" for not wanting the quality of a product I use to go down. What's more, it's from an Alabama redneck who is trying to give me advice on economics. I mean, just sit back for a second and consider how ridiculous your entire point is; which, hiding behind the personal attacks and insults, is this:
1. A large company, in order to be profitable, must sacrifice the quality of it's products.
I recognize that companies like Walmart make a lot of money on the idea of reduced quality products. But you aren't Walmart -- you sell your products to large boardsports retailers, who in turn let them go for almost 100% more than the price of a similar quality generic. In fact, right beside the "tail devils":
http://www.zumiez.com/zshop/ProductList.aspx?OrganizationID=287&DepartmentID=2&ShopByBrand=True
Other large companies don't go that route, yet they somehow manage to make money. Mercedez Benz is still making stuff in countries like Germany, Hungary, and the USA.
Another reason you are fundamentally wrong is because despite what you say, other skateboard companies just as large as you are are somehow still managing to make stuff in the USA. You may remember Tum Yeto. Toy Machine and Foundation are getting boards from Watson Laminates. In fact, I even remember you bragging once that the Toy Machine board I was riding was made "by the same Mexicans Zero boards are made by, but they come out being a bit cheaper because they are 30 miles and one border apart" or some fucked up phrase like that in one of your gay private messages.
Oh, and just for your consideration: the cost of living in Mexico may be cheap, but that doesn't mean your workers are getting a US standard of living. The cost of living in Kenya maybe be a couple of dollars a year, but the standard of living involves living in a mud hut with no electricity. Any way you put it, they're getting screwed and so are we.
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Hey man, i can see what you're saying, maybe we're not even on the same page here. When i'm talking about "bros" i'm talking about my homies. If ive got something good to give, i'm going to hook my people the fuck up, so long as they're not being shit bags.
I'm fuckin wicked out of the loop with this shit i guess, status/image mean absolutely nothing to me. I just skate with my friends and if i meet new people, then fuck yeah, but if not, i could really care less. i've been skating for half of my life at this point, that's what it's about, skating more.
Just to clear this up one last time: I am not talking about giving your personal property away to others. I am not talking about making pro skaters pay for the decks they ride. I am not even talking about getting rid of product tosses at demos. This is what I mean:
Let's say you have a small hamburger restaurant with one employee. You sell 20 hamburgers every week, and the total costs of running your business including all expenses is $200 per week. To break even, you have to sell each hamburger for $10, but you sell them for $15 instead so that you can make a living. You end up making $100 a week profit on that. But soon, your employee, some stupid teenage kid, starts giving five of those hamburgers away each week to his gay little friends. [In the skate industry, these gay little friends are the 'hipsters' -- dead weight losers that oftentimes do not even skate.] This leaves you with only fifteen hamburgers to sell each week, and with that fifteen you still have to come up with your $300 to stay open and make a living. To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.
So what is fair here? Should the teenager's gay little friends get free hamburgers, while everyone else is forced to pay $20? Or would it be better if everyone just payed $15?
I think the dead weight should be gotten rid of. That dead weight is in the "bro system." "All other industries" are not throwing money down the toilet, making their customers pay for it, and then bitching when the consumer goes somewhere else [blank decks]. In fact, no other industries except for governments are nearly this buerocratic. I know this is confusing to a lot of you, and for some it is probably even intimidating, but you have to look at things in these terms sometimes.
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Once again, Newton spewing about shit he knows nothing about.
-First off, we all know you don't feel bad for anyone, you've proved you're a selfish prick time and time again.
-Secondly, factories always fluctuate the number of employees they have due to the amount of work there is to be done. This is true anywhere in the world. Truth is, in Mexico the people are protected by the laws better than in most countries, while they don't have unemployment, all employees that are laid off have to be paid 90 days severance plus they're entitled to a certain amount of money for how long they've worked at the company.
-Lastly, regarding Nafta, minimum wage is dictated by the cost of living in a place, so there's nothing artificially low unless you're running illegal labor/not abiding by the laws.
...and at the at this point in the game, it's not a question of US vs. Mexico, it's a question of Mexico vs. China. It's very difficult to pay for overhead, market and promote a brand at the level needed to stay strong and give boards to shops for prices they need to make a margin getting 'all' of your boards made in the US. It basically only works for small brands with low overhead and minimal marketing commitments. Once you reach a certain size, the importance of maintaining a certain profit margin to keep the cash flow going in order to sustain business is crucial. It's called profit, but that doesn't mean you're taking bags of money home, it means you have money to pay your bills on time and give terms to the people that need it.
...you obviously need some life experience, but I'll give you that you're an expert in 'idealism'!
Here is some life experience for you: seven years ago I could walk into a skate shop, and out of every board on the wall, only two would've been made in foreign countries. In 2002, when Dwindle finally admitted to making boards in China, it was an considered an outrage. Now, I am sitting here just six years later, reading about how I am "idealistic" for not wanting the quality of a product I use to go down. What's more, it's from an Alabama redneck who is trying to give me advice on economics. I mean, just sit back for a second and consider how ridiculous your entire point is; which, hiding behind the personal attacks and insults, is this:
1. A large company, in order to be profitable, must sacrifice the quality of it's products.
I recognize that companies like Walmart make a lot of money on the idea of reduced quality products. But you aren't Walmart -- you sell your products to large boardsports retailers, who in turn let them go for almost 100% more than the price of a similar quality generic. In fact, right beside the "tail devils":
http://www.zumiez.com/zshop/ProductList.aspx?OrganizationID=287&DepartmentID=2&ShopByBrand=True
Other large companies don't go that route, yet they somehow manage to make money. Mercedez Benz is still making stuff in countries like Germany, Hungary, and the USA.
Another reason you are fundamentally wrong is because despite what you say, other skateboard companies just as large as you are are somehow still managing to make stuff in the USA. You may remember Tum Yeto. Toy Machine and Foundation are getting boards from Watson Laminates. In fact, I even remember you bragging once that the Toy Machine board I was riding was made "by the same Mexicans Zero boards are made by, but they come out being a bit cheaper because they are 30 miles and one border apart" or some fucked up phrase like that in one of your gay private messages.
Oh, and just for your consideration: the cost of living in Mexico may be cheap, but that doesn't mean your workers are getting a US standard of living. The cost of living in Kenya maybe be a couple of dollars a year, but the standard of living involves living in a mud hut with no electricity. Any way you put it, they're getting screwed and so are we.
Sorry man, but your argument is based on some BS. The quality is the same.
All the wood and glue is from the same place and I've been to Watson laminates, the dudes working there are just as mexican as the dudes that work in our factory.
The cars brand comparison is so far off base it's ridiculous?
Back to Zumiez pricing. Not sure how you don't get this yet, but a shop's retail prices is not up to us. It's set by what people are willing to pay. That's basic economics.
Regarding your comment on the cost of living.
We're not talking about Kenya, we're talking about Mexico. The workers are paid in accordance with the labor laws of mexico. Those labor laws coincide with cost of living in Mexico not the US. Why would they be, they're not paying for food or rent in the US.
The point is that you don't know what's 'really' going on. You just know what you can see from your high school.
I may be from Alabama, but I've been around the world and learned how much I don't know and I'm thankful to keep learning.
In no way do I think I'm smart, so you calling me a redneck is not offensive.
Keep trying dude!
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hey jamie, are your boards made in the same factory as the DLX boards? the real i just got has the same "made in mexico" sticker as the mysterys/zeros do.
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hey jamie, are your boards made in the same factory as the DLX boards? the real i just got has the same "made in mexico" sticker as the mysterys/zeros do.
In this global economy those "Made in Mexico" stickers could be possibly be made in China and sold to everyone.
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hey jamie, are your boards made in the same factory as the DLX boards? the real i just got has the same "made in mexico" sticker as the mysterys/zeros do.
In this global economy those "Made in Mexico" stickers could be possibly be made in China and sold to everyone.
perspective on stickers = shattered
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sorry to bring the bro thing up once more, but who are the ones that give away the stuff? According to the burger comparison some company employee or team rider or did I miss something? I agree that it's a deadweight, but I can't really believe it actually influences the prices..
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Our newest shipment of creature decks had big made in china stickers plastered on the side of each board.
I'm not positive but they remind me a lot of girl/choc boards. Kinda heavy and really stiff.
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To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.
Please tell me you're not an accountant.
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To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.
Please tell me you're not an accountant.
hes a 14 year old with a computer in his room
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Just to clear this up one last time: I am not talking about giving your personal property away to others. I am not talking about making pro skaters pay for the decks they ride. I am not even talking about getting rid of product tosses at demos. This is what I mean:
Let's say you have a small hamburger restaurant with one employee. You sell 20 hamburgers every week, and the total costs of running your business including all expenses is $200 per week. To break even, you have to sell each hamburger for $10, but you sell them for $15 instead so that you can make a living. You end up making $100 a week profit on that. But soon, your employee, some stupid teenage kid, starts giving five of those hamburgers away each week to his gay little friends. [In the skate industry, these gay little friends are the 'hipsters' -- dead weight losers that oftentimes do not even skate.] This leaves you with only fifteen hamburgers to sell each week, and with that fifteen you still have to come up with your $300 to stay open and make a living. To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.
So what is fair here? Should the teenager's gay little friends get free hamburgers, while everyone else is forced to pay $20? Or would it be better if everyone just payed $15?
I think the dead weight should be gotten rid of. That dead weight is in the "bro system." "All other industries" are not throwing money down the toilet, making their customers pay for it, and then bitching when the consumer goes somewhere else [blank decks]. In fact, no other industries except for governments are nearly this buerocratic. I know this is confusing to a lot of you, and for some it is probably even intimidating, but you have to look at things in these terms sometimes.
yo dumbass, thats a 33% increase, please stay in school.
thats said, i actually agree with some of what you're saying. i see skate shop workers hooking up their friends all the time. while it seems like the norm, that hook up is on the owners dollar, not theirs and thats where most of the problem lies.
when someone opens a business, its to make money, not to have their employees give discounts to all their buddies.
if i had employees that gave out hooks without my permission, i'd simply deduct the amount from their pay and let them deal with it.
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where exactly do you draw the line on that though? a lot of independent shops pride and advertise themselves on the basis that regular customers get a bit of a discount or spotting a bit of the price if youre flat broke and the whole family vibe
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I hate motherfuckers who bitch about the good ol days, shut the fuck up, if you were skating during that era then you would know whats up.
/THREAD
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Sorry man, but your argument is based on some BS. The quality is the same.
All the wood and glue is from the same place and I've been to Watson laminates, the dudes working there are just as mexican as the dudes that work in our factory.
We can argue about the quality all day long. That isn't the point. Please tell me why it is that Tod Swank, who is just as big as you, can make his boards in America, and you can't?
The cars brand comparison is so far off base it's ridiculous?
No it isn't. Mercedes uses top quality products and does most of their manufacturing in developed countries. They are larger than you. They are profitable.
Back to Zumiez pricing. Not sure how you don't get this yet, but a shop's retail prices is not up to us. It's set by what people are willing to pay. That's basic economics.
Well I'm glad to see you know some of the basics about economics, but actually your prices do directly affect theirs. The concept here is supply and demand -- not just demand. The real point is that your boards are expensive everywhere.
Regarding your comment on the cost of living.
We're not talking about Kenya, we're talking about Mexico. The workers are paid in accordance with the labor laws of mexico. Those labor laws coincide with cost of living in Mexico not the US. Why would they be, they're not paying for food or rent in the US.
Okay, Kenya was just an example. We can talk about Mexico if you want. The standard of living in Mexico SUCKS -- so bad, in fact, that millions of Mexicans flee the country to come to the US each year to make less than minimum wage. Look at the standard of living of a person living in the US on minimum wage. It's not a living. The conditions are deplorable. But to those living on Mexico's minimum wage, they risk their lives to try to get it. People like your workers are risking their lives just to gain the lifestyle of the convenience store clerk down the street.
That's called wage slavery, no matter what "the labor laws" say. Fuck you.
And to the people who are up in arms about my mathematical error, I am sincerely very sorry. Please find it in your kindest of hearts to forgive me for that. I got so caught up in my example that I thought the numbers were 20 and 25. Again, please forgive me.
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Sorry man, but your argument is based on some BS. The quality is the same.
All the wood and glue is from the same place and I've been to Watson laminates, the dudes working there are just as mexican as the dudes that work in our factory.
We can argue about the quality all day long. That isn't the point. Please tell me why it is that Tod Swank, who is just as big as you, can make his boards in America, and you can't?
Not sure how Tum Yeto runs their business or if all of their boards are made in the US, but our companies are indeed different sizes.
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The cars brand comparison is so far off base it's ridiculous?
Mercedes is a luxury car company that sells to the rich! Their cars are drastically different than other car brands which means if they can create the demand they can charge what they want. Therefore they can afford to get their cars made wherever fits their marketing or business model.
How can that be compared to skateboard companies where everyone is selling a very similar product?
You have to stay competitive with pricing in order to sell anything. Therefore you have to get your products made where it makes sense to be able to offer those prices and have enough money for overhead and marketing to create demand.
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Back to Zumiez pricing. Not sure how you don't get this yet, but a shop's retail prices is not up to us. It's set by what people are willing to pay. That's basic economics.
Back to the basic economics, again; "prices are set by what people are willing to pay."
If we sold board for $15 and kids are willing to pay $80, you bet the shop is going to charge $80.
We offer a ton of discounts, therefore our boards are some of the most affordable boards offered by any branded company.
People actually told you this in past debates where you were ranting the same garbage, but you refuse to acknowledge it because then you'll have to actually come to terms with the fact that your argument is WEAK.
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Regarding your comment on the cost of living.
We're not talking about Kenya, we're talking about Mexico. The workers are paid in accordance with the labor laws of mexico. Those labor laws coincide with cost of living in Mexico not the US. Why would they be, they're not paying for food or rent in the US.
Okay, Kenya was just an example. We can talk about Mexico if you want. The standard of living in Mexico SUCKS -- so bad, in fact, that millions of Mexicans flee the country to come to the US each year to make less than minimum wage. Look at the standard of living of a person living in the US on minimum wage. It's not a living. The conditions are deplorable. But to those living on Mexico's minimum wage, they risk their lives to try to get it. People like your workers are risking their lives just to gain the lifestyle of the convenience store clerk down the street.
That's called wage slavery, no matter what "the labor laws" say. Fuck you.
And to the people who are up in arms about my mathematical error, I am sincerely very sorry. Please find it in your kindest of hearts to forgive me for that. I got so caught up in my example that I thought the numbers were 20 and 25. Again, please forgive me.
People from Mexico are coming to the US to find work not because of how much they'll get paid. There simply is not enough work in Mexico for the population. Visit mexico then write your thesis, cause you have no idea what you're talking about.
It's impressive how you could be so far off base on every point, yet you think you're killing it.
At 17 you can be 'smart with potential', but you're only capable of retaining actual knowledge by experience.
Start a company, make some crap, pay employees, go through some tough times on your own, visit Kenya and Mexico and I guarantee even YOU will change.
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hilarious to see this shit going down. jamie thomas, a well established human being, and some 16 or 17 year old little kid trying to piss everyone off. and succeeding.
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I'm praying that skateboarding becomes what it was in via 1990's
been there done that... let's do something new in the 2010s
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Hey Jamie.....enough man. You're supposed to be the smart, mature, 'adult' here, yet your sitting there thinking you're schooling a 17 year old on the internet?
First of all Black Box could afford to pay every single employee more money, if you say different you're lying. How much loot went into your bank account last year? Six figures at the very least, probably A LOT more. Lets cut your check in half, come on, you'd still be rich, and share that money with the rest of the employees, regardless of their nationality. Ohh wait... equal pay for the amount of work people do is called socialism right?
Instead we should have assholes, like you, who do very little work yet get the large piece of the pie. Fuck the people who actually make the products that you're getting rich off of..... we can pay them what ever the 'labor laws' dictate because we know that no government would ever put it's citizens in danger or let them live in poverty.
I'm not going to act like I'm some economic genius here, fuck I have trouble with spelling and grammar. But it doesn't take a genius to know that the heads of companies make lots of money and the lowly employees get stuck with a big cock sandwich. Doesn't matter the company or the industry, the top makes all the money and throws just enough crumbs to the peasants to keep them moving.
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Hey Jamie.....enough man. You're supposed to be the smart, mature, 'adult' here, yet your sitting there thinking you're schooling a 17 year old on the internet?
First of all Black Box could afford to pay every single employee more money, if you say different you're lying. How much loot went into your bank account last year? Six figures at the very least, probably A LOT more. Lets cut your check in half, come on, you'd still be rich, and share that money with the rest of the employees, regardless of their nationality. Ohh wait... equal pay for the amount of work people do is called socialism right?
Instead we should have assholes, like you, who do very little work yet get the large piece of the pie. Fuck the people who actually make the products that you're getting rich off of..... we can pay them what ever the 'labor laws' dictate because we know that no government would ever put it's citizens in danger or let them live in poverty.
I'm not going to act like I'm some economic genius here, fuck I have trouble with spelling and grammar. But it doesn't take a genius to know that the heads of companies make lots of money and the lowly employees get stuck with a big cock sandwich. Doesn't matter the company or the industry, the top makes all the money and throws just enough crumbs to the peasants to keep them moving.
Newtons accusations/claims are false and it's all open for debate, so I'm in.
...but as it turns out, you don't know you shit about me.
you can assume all day long, but we're paying everyone involved in our camp as much as we can.
and just so you know, I make less now than I did as 'just' a pro skateboarder. It ain't about money, it's about providing a future for me my family and our employees. If somehow all that could make sense off of getting paid in chickens it'd be cool by me.
...and the part about me doing "very little work yet get the large piece of the pie". I work my shit to the bone and only sleep about 4-5 hours a night just to keep it all going, so you're trippin.
In the end, as an owner, I obviously have the most to gain, but that comes with the most to lose.
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The cars brand comparison is so far off base it's ridiculous?
Mercedes is a luxury car company that sells to the rich! Their cars are drastically different than other car brands which means if they can create the demand they can charge what they want. Therefore they can afford to get their cars made wherever fits their marketing or business model.
How can that be compared to skateboard companies where everyone is selling a very similar product?
You have to stay competitive with pricing in order to sell anything. Therefore you have to get your products made where it makes sense to be able to offer those prices and have enough money for overhead and marketing to create demand.
Hey Mr. Business Guru, you are a luxury skateboard company that "sells to the rich!" Every industry has a class of people that is willing to spend a lot of money and a class of people that isn't. In the auto industry, the big spenders get Mercedes and the other guys get Chevrolets. In the skateboard industry, the rich get $70 graphic skateboards, and people that watch what they spend get $45 shop decks.
They also do not "create demand" for anything. Demand for luxury cars is just there, and it is elastic. There is no drastic difference between a BMW, a Mercedes, and even another luxury car like a Cadillac or even a Volvo. If Mercedes hikes their prices for $100,000 a car, they won't sell the same amount. Status-oriented yuppies operating on a budget are just going to get a $30,000 BMW instead. There are also numerous substitutions for these cars. It is not unlike any other industry.
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Back to Zumiez pricing. Not sure how you don't get this yet, but a shop's retail prices is not up to us. It's set by what people are willing to pay. That's basic economics.
Back to the basic economics, again; "prices are set by what people are willing to pay."
If we sold board for $15 and kids are willing to pay $80, you bet the shop is going to charge $80.
We offer a ton of discounts, therefore our boards are some of the most affordable boards offered by any branded company.
People actually told you this in past debates where you were ranting the same garbage, but you refuse to acknowledge it because then you'll have to actually come to terms with the fact that your argument is WEAK.
Jesus. It's like you just can't get this through your stupid skull. I'll try to dumb this concept down for you even further:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Price_of_market_balance.gif)
Refer to the graph, and then weigh it against your own example. If you were selling boards at $15 to shops, hypothetically, then they could maybe sell 100 for $20 each. As price increases, demand decreases, so if they decided to sell a board for $80 in the face of stiff competition and a slowing economy, they would probably sell about one board. At $20 each, the shop would make a profit of $500. At $80 each, the shop would make a profit of about $65. Which would you rather have, $500, or $65? Obviously $500. Therefore, a low price makes sense for most businesses. This is why Walmart makes so much money. I somehow doubt that Zumiez is making 500% margins on decks or something with all of the competition from all sides in this market. Therefore, your price directly plays into theirs. Believe it or not, it is in their best interests to make the price as low as they can.
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Regarding your comment on the cost of living.
We're not talking about Kenya, we're talking about Mexico. The workers are paid in accordance with the labor laws of mexico. Those labor laws coincide with cost of living in Mexico not the US. Why would they be, they're not paying for food or rent in the US.
Okay, Kenya was just an example. We can talk about Mexico if you want. The standard of living in Mexico SUCKS -- so bad, in fact, that millions of Mexicans flee the country to come to the US each year to make less than minimum wage. Look at the standard of living of a person living in the US on minimum wage. It's not a living. The conditions are deplorable. But to those living on Mexico's minimum wage, they risk their lives to try to get it. People like your workers are risking their lives just to gain the lifestyle of the convenience store clerk down the street.
That's called wage slavery, no matter what "the labor laws" say. Fuck you.
And to the people who are up in arms about my mathematical error, I am sincerely very sorry. Please find it in your kindest of hearts to forgive me for that. I got so caught up in my example that I thought the numbers were 20 and 25. Again, please forgive me.
People from Mexico are coming to the US to find work not because of how much they'll get paid. There simply is not enough work in Mexico for the population. Visit mexico then write your thesis, cause you have no idea what you're talking about.
It's impressive how you could be so far off base on every point, yet you think you're killing it.
At 17 you can be 'smart with potential', but you're only capable of retaining actual knowledge by experience.
Start a company, make some crap, pay employees, go through some tough times on your own, visit Kenya and Mexico and I guarantee even YOU will change.
I mean, aside from the personal attack, what is the argument here? Are you claiming that the Mexican minimum wage is high enough, and that the people living on it aren't one paycheck away from being dead? This is exactly the same argument slave owners gave before and during the Civil War to justify slavery.
"You're only capable of actual knowledge by experience." That's a real gem, sir. I'm glad to know that your experiences skateboarding in Mexico and Spain made you an expert on the socio-economics there. Have you ever heard of a book?
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and only sleep about 4-5 hours a night
You know, if you weren't arguing on internet message boards at midnight like a teenager maybe you could get some sleep... What's next, gonna go update your facebook? Pfffff.
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Hey Mr. Business Guru, you are a luxury skateboard company that "sells to the rich!" Every industry has a class of people that is willing to spend a lot of money and a class of people that isn't. In the auto industry, the big spenders get Mercedes and the other guys get Chevrolets. In the skateboard industry, the rich get $70 graphic skateboards, and people that watch what they spend get $45 shop decks.
Who the fuck pays $70 for a deck?
The same brats that get benz's given to them?
Part of the life experience that no graph can ever tell you is the part of the informed consumer.
They should know damn well that shouldnt pay $70 for a deck.
Thats the important part of a local, skater operated shop. To teach the seeds about what they are spending their/or mom and dad's money on.
In the same way that large chain shops like Zumiez gets discounts for bulk ordering (and then charges a rediculous markup), smaller skateboarder owned shops should get a comparable diiscount (some do for not carrying blanks) so they can compete with the larger shops but actually charge $55 for a deck (what they should be), and still be around when things go bust.
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Have you ever heard of a book?
that's the problem here Dr.
Your point only sounds good on paper. it only makes sense in a logical vacuum. your points are valid, but only if everyone in business agreed to play by the same rules and respect the graph. in the real world of business, you'll find that no matter how many graphs you have or how obvious the rules are, people tend to do what makes them the most money no matter what the consequences. I may not agree with everything Jamies done over the course of his career, but he has definitely been there and pushed skateboardings landscape in directions no one saw coming. many debate if that's a good thing, but whatevs. trust me, you sound like you came straight from a theoretical econimics class. key word, theoretical. it doesn't work like that. if you can pay your employees a fair wage and still have enough room to even think about preparing for the future for both you and them, you're doing it as good as it can be done right now. for real.
k
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and only sleep about 4-5 hours a night
You know, if you weren't arguing on internet message boards at midnight like a teenager maybe you could get some sleep... What's next, gonna go update your facebook? Pfffff.
nah, I update facebook in the morning.
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Hey Mr. Business Guru, you are a luxury skateboard company that "sells to the rich!" Every industry has a class of people that is willing to spend a lot of money and a class of people that isn't. In the auto industry, the big spenders get Mercedes and the other guys get Chevrolets. In the skateboard industry, the rich get $70 graphic skateboards, and people that watch what they spend get $45 shop decks.
They also do not "create demand" for anything. Demand for luxury cars is just there, and it is elastic. There is no drastic difference between a BMW, a Mercedes, and even another luxury car like a Cadillac or even a Volvo. If Mercedes hikes their prices for $100,000 a car, they won't sell the same amount. Status-oriented yuppies operating on a budget are just going to get a $30,000 BMW instead. There are also numerous substitutions for these cars. It is not unlike any other industry.
Jesus. It's like you just can't get this through your stupid skull. I'll try to dumb this concept down for you even further:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/Price_of_market_balance.gif)
Refer to the graph, and then weigh it against your own example. If you were selling boards at $15 to shops, hypothetically, then they could maybe sell 100 for $20 each. As price increases, demand decreases, so if they decided to sell a board for $80 in the face of stiff competition and a slowing economy, they would probably sell about one board. At $20 each, the shop would make a profit of $500. At $80 each, the shop would make a profit of about $65. Which would you rather have, $500, or $65? Obviously $500. Therefore, a low price makes sense for most businesses. This is why Walmart makes so much money. I somehow doubt that Zumiez is making 500% margins on decks or something with all of the competition from all sides in this market. Therefore, your price directly plays into theirs. Believe it or not, it is in their best interests to make the price as low as they can.
I mean, aside from the personal attack, what is the argument here? Are you claiming that the Mexican minimum wage is high enough, and that the people living on it aren't one paycheck away from being dead? This is exactly the same argument slave owners gave before and during the Civil War to justify slavery.
"You're only capable of actual knowledge by experience." That's a real gem, sir. I'm glad to know that your experiences skateboarding in Mexico and Spain made you an expert on the socio-economics there. Have you ever heard of a book?
Thanks for the lesson Newton, that graph example was amazing!!!
I'll try and work on getting this all through my head and hopefully I'll be more prepared for your next barrage of BS.
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Hey Jamie.....enough man. You're supposed to be the smart, mature, 'adult' here, yet your sitting there thinking you're schooling a 17 year old on the internet?
First of all Black Box could afford to pay every single employee more money, if you say different you're lying. How much loot went into your bank account last year? Six figures at the very least, probably A LOT more. Lets cut your check in half, come on, you'd still be rich, and share that money with the rest of the employees, regardless of their nationality. Ohh wait... equal pay for the amount of work people do is called socialism right?
Instead we should have assholes, like you, who do very little work yet get the large piece of the pie. Fuck the people who actually make the products that you're getting rich off of..... we can pay them what ever the 'labor laws' dictate because we know that no government would ever put it's citizens in danger or let them live in poverty.
I'm not going to act like I'm some economic genius here, fuck I have trouble with spelling and grammar. But it doesn't take a genius to know that the heads of companies make lots of money and the lowly employees get stuck with a big cock sandwich. Doesn't matter the company or the industry, the top makes all the money and throws just enough crumbs to the peasants to keep them moving.
dumbest shit i've ever read.
so you're telling me that you'll...
1. bust your ass skating and stacking some cheddar
2. start a company
3. scout skaters to put on the team
4. paying those skaters a nice salary to do something they love
5. spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on advertising and pushing your brand.
6. taking the profits from the 1st company to start a 2nd company
7. employing even more people
8. spending all the money you had to, to make the first company successful all over again
9. then taking the profits from both companies to start a 3rd company
10. again, employing more people
11. spending more money
12. finding more skaters
13. then starting a 4th company
14. employing even more people
15. find more skaters etc etc etc.
all that said, you're actually going to sit there and tell me you would do all that work, spend all your money, pay out all those riders, then pay yourself just enough to get by? riiiiiight....i almost believe you. ::)
the best part about all this is that you kiddies are sitting there telling someone whos proven to be a successful businessman that hes doing it all wrong.
when you accomplish anything nearly as impressive as he has, feel free to talk as much shit as you want.
til then, stay in school, gain some life experience, get a clue and have a nice cold glass of shut the fuck up. ::)
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It's all very well and laudable talking about the finer points of employment ethics but it's really not the time. The simple fact is that the world economy is going to hell in a handcart. Only the efficient will survive. It's harsh having to lay some people off, but if by not doing so you go bust then your whole wprkforce is out of a job. Harsh to say but sometimes the survival of most employees outweighs the welfare of a few; I know, I've had to lay people off before but sometimes that's all you can do and the best you can do is treat them as well as possible, give them as much warning as possible, good references etc. I think the china wood issue is a dead one at this point - the real danger is true skate companies being pushed out by big corps mass producing pieces of shit for uninformed parents to foist on their kids. My hope is as many people as possible buy based on who owns the companies. If prices are close support skater owned. As for people giving away proddy without consent - isn't that basically just stealing and very different to a company hooking up a deserving skater with stuff - which is all I've ever seen happen and is to be encouraged
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JT won the Entrepreneur of the Year award from Ernst & Young and someone's trying to teach him about business via the slap MB???
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hope I'm not coming across like that as I agree with you; dude's lived it & real experience > theory!
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I really like the Slap boards for a lot of reasons, but it's very frustrating when people get on here with intentions of trying to piss everyone off. ruins it for everyone.
Jamie - Keep doing what you're doing. For every hater trying to call you out, there are 20 guys repping your products and not expecting you to create a Utopian commune in Carlsbad.
Dr Newton - why don't you and all your hippie friends move to Kenya where you can be free of the capitalist tyrants trying to hold you down? You guys can find some land and start a farm and barter with nearby communities. Eventually, you can trade your guavas for a skateboard and share it with your dreadlocked buddies. you guys can all make sure nobody has just anymore than anyone else. There'd be no more competition and everyone would be blissfully broke. no matter who shows more initiative!
In fact, we could migrate your principals to skateboarding too. fuck yeah! nobody is learning backside noseblunts until we can all do them frontside! slow down chris cole. slow down.
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"JT vs. Newton: When 2 Libras Argue"
*grabs popcorn*
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1. I can't believe you think Jamie hasn't busted his ass from day one to get his companies where they are today. Unless your Bill Gates or Steve jobs, owning your own company means your going to be working harder than anyone. I don't know Jamie personally, but he seems like the kind of guy who would be on the line packing boxes if they got really backed up that sort of stuff.
2. From someone who worked in the wherehouse at South Shore I can tell you I busted my ass all day everyday, wherehouse workers are usually the hardest working people in the company. I was at work pulling orders before sales were even on the phone pushing tail devils, and I was packing orders sometimes hours after sales had gone home for the day. And this was full time and going to college after work every night. I have visited some of the distro's in Vista and stuff and they seem a little more laid back in that department, but when theres work to be done I'm sure the dudes get it done.
3. $70 bucks a deck seriously? Every legit shop here, its $50 a deck whatever company doesn't matter. There is no market for luxury decks, yeh element and dwindle may try, but I have never seen anyone skating a fiberlight or whatever the new trendy expensive deck is.
4. Dr Newton give up. "as price increases, demand decreases" there is a point where price and demand will be the highest grossing and thats what your looking for. Yeh you can sell 100 decks for $20, but you could also sell say 50 decks for $50. So pricing things as low as possible isn't always going to make you more money. Also there is something called perceived value, if you sell something dirt cheap people are going assume its poor quality, which is generally true. Yeh I could buy 3 blanks for the price of 1 Real, but I'm going with the Real everytime because they are quality, and they don't lose their pop in 1 day or snap super easy. And shops do generally price things at what they can sell them for not based on how much its costing them because wholesale deck prices fluctate company to company like they might get a Habitat for $36 and a Krooked for $33, but they are both being sold for $50. Companies like Zumiez are marking up way more than mom and pop shops which you would think it would be the other way around, but its not. Zumiez sells a deck for like $50 and so do mom and pop, but Zumiez orders 100's of the same deck directly from the companies, while mom and pop are paying more to buy them from a distro like South Shore or Eastern because they only need 1 or 2 of each brand on hand. So in your theory Zumiez could sell way more units if they priced them cheaper, because they get them cheaper, yet they don't because they know they can get $50 a pop no matter how cheap they get them.
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gilmer you are a person i think you need to go back to college and learn how to spell warehouse before you even claim to have worked harder that anyone at southshore all you did was bitch all day and leave early to shoot photo's because real photographers couldn't be around that day. everyone at southshore busts there ass everyday my friend and you definatly were not one of them.
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...sorry gilmer, but that's a K/O!!
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how can people argue with someone thats proven to be a talented business man, won entreprenuer of the year, and continues to kick ass at a pro skateing career, all the while having a family to raise and a wife to please. Come on people.
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this thread is fucked.
*continues to watch*
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Hey man, i can see what you're saying, maybe we're not even on the same page here. When i'm talking about "bros" i'm talking about my homies. If ive got something good to give, i'm going to hook my people the fuck up, so long as they're not being shit bags.
I'm fuckin wicked out of the loop with this shit i guess, status/image mean absolutely nothing to me. I just skate with my friends and if i meet new people, then fuck yeah, but if not, i could really care less. i've been skating for half of my life at this point, that's what it's about, skating more.
Just to clear this up one last time: I am not talking about giving your personal property away to others. I am not talking about making pro skaters pay for the decks they ride. I am not even talking about getting rid of product tosses at demos. This is what I mean:
Let's say you have a small hamburger restaurant with one employee. You sell 20 hamburgers every week, and the total costs of running your business including all expenses is $200 per week. To break even, you have to sell each hamburger for $10, but you sell them for $15 instead so that you can make a living. You end up making $100 a week profit on that. But soon, your employee, some stupid teenage kid, starts giving five of those hamburgers away each week to his gay little friends. [In the skate industry, these gay little friends are the 'hipsters' -- dead weight losers that oftentimes do not even skate.] This leaves you with only fifteen hamburgers to sell each week, and with that fifteen you still have to come up with your $300 to stay open and make a living. To do this, you have to increase the price of your fifteen remaining hamburgers from $15 to $20 -- a 25% increase for nothing.
So what is fair here? Should the teenager's gay little friends get free hamburgers, while everyone else is forced to pay $20? Or would it be better if everyone just payed $15?
I think the dead weight should be gotten rid of. That dead weight is in the "bro system." "All other industries" are not throwing money down the toilet, making their customers pay for it, and then bitching when the consumer goes somewhere else [blank decks]. In fact, no other industries except for governments are nearly this buerocratic. I know this is confusing to a lot of you, and for some it is probably even intimidating, but you have to look at things in these terms sometimes.
Again... this is ridiculous. it's fucking skateboarding.
Economics/money flow isn't a hard thing to understand and i'm not even going to get into it, because really, i don't want to read the numbers or charts that you're dropping all around like they're some new, hot bag of shit. again this is about skateboarding, on an esoteric level. skaters need to support skaters, period, and i don't mean by stealing stuff from the shop. I mean by providing reasonable prices, a positive atmosphere, good times, and skateboarding. i've never paid less than $45 or more than $52.50 for a pro deck with grip. I worked in a shop around 2001-2002 and the distribution catalogs all listed the shop price at $35-40. That shit doesn't seem to have changed a whole lot.... maybe i'm wrong.
Yes indeed, the market is completely over saturated, but it's certainly not due to companies hooking homies or "bros" up with product and jobs. It revolves around too much product being pushed into the dead weight mainstream, which truly exists to be a non-skateboarding community. And while this brings money into the "industry," it's expanding the "industry" and allowing for the good shit, the family shit, to get shot down. there's no fucking way a shoe company like Kastel (rip) could compete with Nike or a local clothing company compete with LRG. Shit or PFC competing with Hubba.
Again, not everyone invests their soul in skateboarding.
skateboarding is about tasting the flavor of life with your friends man, on every level.
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Yes indeed, the market is completely over saturated, but it's certainly not due to companies hooking homies or "bros" up with product and jobs. It revolves around too much product being pushed into the dead weight mainstream, which truly exists to be a non-skateboarding community. And while this brings money into the "industry," it's expanding the "industry" and allowing for the good shit, the family shit, to get shot down. there's no fucking way a shoe company like Kastel (rip) could compete with Nike or a local clothing company compete with LRG. Shit or PFC competing with Hubba.
Again, not everyone invests their soul in skateboarding.
skateboarding is about tasting the flavor of life with your friends man, on every level.
truth, but why put Hubba up there with Nike and LRG?
last I checked, Hubba was mostly owned by Tony Vitello, son of Fausto, dudeman is heir to one of the longest running skate co. families going.
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After reading what I wrote I realize my mind wandered very off topic, sorry.
I've scanned through the pages on here. I am not highly involved with the industry, only worked at a skate shop for 2 years but then left because I was getting in trouble for allowing artists to draw in the bathrooms and for drawing on kids boards during work instead of receiving the latest hot fashion shirt...
I think pricing is important but so is educating the customer and selling a quality product. I definately respect the companies that have been around for a very long time... it shows they are doing something right.
As for companies downsizing that's been happening all over the world. Only the strong survive...
I've only been to one Zumiez, I didn't really pay attention to prices but more to the fact that I couldn't relate that well to the people that worked there. Sure I wanted to get with the hot chick who was pissed she was still working at a skate shop, but I still felt out of place even though the store had so much to offer with free mags, free dvds, a couch and videos playing and a quite interesting/creative atmosphere. The fact it was inside a mall kinda weirded me out, but thats my social anxiety kicking in. Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Zumiez pay commission to shop employees?
Where the fuck am I going with this... I'm not sure. I've contemplated starting my own shop in the future but now I don't know if its what I should do with my life. There are already 2 shops in the area so is it worth me to take a risk and get myself into debt to spend so much time in one area competing with 2 well established shops?
Skateboarding will survive whatever it is put through. I see claims of let it die out again, but I feel that won't happen. Kids are producing their own films and out editing art school graduates. There is a huge creative field in skateboarding but I do feel there is a lack of business sense. I have made money in the past through the selling of hand drawn boards and spray painted tees, selling dvd copies of videos, selling a deck here and there, but never enough to support a lifestyle... but thats all up to the drive inside of me.
To get your shit on a world wide recognition level like the top companies have done, now that's some amazing shit right there. It shows your product is respected and sought after. I don't know the finances of big companies or if they are profitable but I suspect there are enough shops that sell enough product to keep this ball rolling.
Instead of constantly contradicting each other what can skate companies do to increase the spark in skateboarding or is that even a necessity? Will it just keep growing on its own? Am I just totally unaware of the competition between companies?
Like let's say companies stopped making videos, teams stopped traveling, the berrics shut down, thrasher peaced out, what would skateboarding be like then? Would we enjoy it as much?
I've gotten to a point where I realize the only thing I can contribute to skateboarding is to try and be a guide for younger skateboarders to keep having fun with it. This post is probably pretty unnecessary as my mind tends to wander quite often, but whatever, take it or leave it.
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HAHAHA.... so the internet forum that is consistently in favor of anything and everything that is anti-business is also in favor of exporting American jobs overseas/exploiting Mexican labor.... and somehow "numbers don't apply" because "it's fucking skateboarding"? That's really interesting. Would you feel the same way if this was a forty-five year old man who had worked his whole life to manufacture plastic toys? How about several middle aged investors who worked their whole lives to put money into a corporation? I realize that a career as a professional skateboarder is an extremely difficult life that not many people would want, and that's commendable and all, but in a broader social context haven't these other groups worked just as hard? Why is a skateboard company any different?
I'd love to see this superior form of learning applied to other areas; it would be fun to see someone try to learn chemistry this way, for example. Imagine someone avoiding any reading, and instead just indiscriminately mixing chemicals together and observing reactions for the invaluable life experience.
(http://www.boygeniusreport.com/wp-content/uploads/image/explosion.jpg)
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Yes indeed, the market is completely over saturated, but it's certainly not due to companies hooking homies or "bros" up with product and jobs. It revolves around too much product being pushed into the dead weight mainstream, which truly exists to be a non-skateboarding community. And while this brings money into the "industry," it's expanding the "industry" and allowing for the good shit, the family shit, to get shot down. there's no fucking way a shoe company like Kastel (rip) could compete with Nike or a local clothing company compete with LRG. Shit or PFC competing with Hubba.
Again, not everyone invests their soul in skateboarding.
skateboarding is about tasting the flavor of life with your friends man, on every level.
truth, but why put Hubba up there with Nike and LRG?
last I checked, Hubba was mostly owned by Tony Vitello, son of Fausto, dudeman is heir to one of the longest running skate co. families going.
Fausto, RIP.
you got me there. BUT, i throw a small wheel company out there, PFC, that is trying to compete with a larger, newer, whatever company, Hubba which has a lot of capital available, and the smaller, cooler company is done for.
HAHAHA.... so the internet forum that is consistently in favor of anything and everything that is anti-business is also in favor of exporting American jobs overseas/exploiting Mexican labor.... and somehow "numbers don't apply" because "it's fucking skateboarding"? That's really interesting. Would you feel the same way if this was a forty-five year old man who had worked his whole life to manufacture plastic toys? How about several middle aged investors who worked their whole lives to put money into a corporation? I realize that a career as a professional skateboarder is an extremely difficult life that not many people would want, and that's commendable and all, but in a broader social context haven't these other groups worked just as hard? Why is a skateboard company any different?
I'd love to see this superior form of learning applied to other areas; it would be fun to see someone try to learn chemistry this way, for example. Imagine someone avoiding any reading, and instead just indiscriminately mixing chemicals together and observing reactions for the invaluable life experience.
(http://www.boygeniusreport.com/wp-content/uploads/image/explosion.jpg)
and you.... eeeeee, man just keep on ranting. Sometimes, you make somewhat applicable points. BUT, young buck, there is a very large gap between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is learned, wisdom is lived.
Someone completely out of the "industry," if they're caring to skate much, shouldn't, well i can't say what one should or should not do, but rather, i don't understand how someone can get off on skating if they're comparing it to chemistry and the world economy.
Here in lies the problem, a "broader social context" of skateboarding is null. just ride your fucking skateboard. if you don't like a company or it's principles, don't buy its wares, bitching about it will do nothing.
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chill out smart people
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HAHAHA....
please remove the term DR. from your name, you made it pretty clear you are not one.
you are an insult to anyone that actually is one and has studied, thanks
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HAHAHA.... so the internet forum that is consistently in favor of anything and everything that is anti-business is also in favor of exporting American jobs overseas/exploiting Mexican labor.... and somehow "numbers don't apply" because "it's fucking skateboarding"? That's really interesting. Would you feel the same way if this was a forty-five year old man who had worked his whole life to manufacture plastic toys? How about several middle aged investors who worked their whole lives to put money into a corporation? I realize that a career as a professional skateboarder is an extremely difficult life that not many people would want, and that's commendable and all, but in a broader social context haven't these other groups worked just as hard? Why is a skateboard company any different?
I'd love to see this superior form of learning applied to other areas; it would be fun to see someone try to learn chemistry this way, for example. Imagine someone avoiding any reading, and instead just indiscriminately mixing chemicals together and observing reactions for the invaluable life experience.
all this BS coming from a rich kid thats never worked a day in his life.
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HAHAHA.... for example. Imagine Newton avoiding any invaluable life experience, and instead just indiscriminately mixing charts and buzzwords together and observing reactions for the sheer fuck of it all.
(http://www.boygeniusreport.com/wp-content/uploads/image/explosion.jpg)
fixed.
k
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Lots of personal attacks, but no refutation. You guys are getting awfully emotional...
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gilmer you are a person i think you need to go back to college and learn how to spell warehouse before you even claim to have worked harder that anyone at southshore all you did was bitch all day and leave early to shoot photo's because real photographers couldn't be around that day. everyone at southshore busts there ass everyday my friend and you definatly were not one of them.
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haha hey Franky! sorry I don't spell check my posts.. I didn't say I was the hardest worker ever there, I just said I worked hard, which I did. I was just saying because someone said people in skate warehouses don't work hard at all, which isn't true. I'm gonna come up there and see you the week of Thanksgiving I'll be in town, lets have lunch or something.
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gilmer you are a person i think you need to go back to college and learn how to spell warehouse before you even claim to have worked harder that anyone at southshore all you did was bitch all day and leave early to shoot photo's because real photographers couldn't be around that day. everyone at southshore busts there ass everyday my friend and you definatly were not one of them.
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haha. i don't know, Jeff. I don't think Franky wants to hang out with you. seems like he thinks you're a joke.
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gilmer you are a person i think you need to go back to college and learn how to spell warehouse before you even claim to have worked harder that anyone at southshore all you did was bitch all day and leave early to shoot photo's because real photographers couldn't be around that day. everyone at southshore busts there ass everyday my friend and you definatly were not one of them.
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haha. i don't know, Jeff. I don't think Franky wants to hang out with you. seems like he thinks you're a joke.
Ha nah Franky's my homie.
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Hey Jeff it's Shorty from Goodtimes...checked out the site. Rad Shit!
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Sup Shorty, hope all's good down your way.
We missed you at MAW.
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Wanted to be there. My brother got married and I couldn't do both. Heard it went really rad...had quite a few San Antonio & Goodtimes heads representing MAW though.
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Hey Jeff it's Shorty from Goodtimes...checked out the site. Rad Shit!
Yo Shorty, thanks man I appreciate it. Yeh I need to come out there I haven't been to SA in too long. Hope the shops doing good dude, I'm sure it is. Peace.
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Fallen, DVS, sole tech,I wonder how many people were laid off at Nike, Converse, or adidas?
Get ready, skateboarding may be on the cusp of a full on large corporate take over. That whole shit where the big companies drown out the little ones, then realize there is no profit in skate shoes anymore that anti-nike people have been talking about may be on its way.