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General Discussion => WHATEVER => Topic started by: Tyroneshoelaces on August 13, 2010, 06:53:03 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama)
Thoughts? Reactions? awesome? not awesome?
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Titanic: The Animated Movie - It's PARTY TIME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxHNztg0X3s#)
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100814/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ground_zero_mosque_obama)
Thoughts? Reactions? awesome? not awesome?
No need to be in an uproar. It wasn't even Arabs that did it, anyway... ::)
So pretty pointless.
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I think it is a great positive step. It got pretty scary with Bush and his followers screaming about how the U.S. is a "Christian nation." There still are fucking pricks trying to block the building of mosques at places nowhere near ground zero. Its good to see that our current president is standing behind the religious pluralism this country was founded upon.
I think all religions are pretty dumb, but I also think that all people should have an equal right to act silly if they aren't hurting anybody. Repression of religious practice is the first step on a sketchy path.
Also, it should be pointed out that the mosque is actually being built at the sight of an old burlington coat factory, not actually on ground zero. Also, two blocks in New York is like 5 miles in a small town, considering how packed the whole city is.
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I can see how some people might find it insensitive, but disagree with them. People have the right to build a mosque, church, temple, Scientology institution, etc. wherever it's legal.
I hope that this leads to more tolerance, and no violence from the bigots who oppose it.
Sadly, I'm willing to bet that we'll see more shit like this:
(http://www.exposebarackobama.com/image/muslim.jpg)
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is everyone a bigot if they oppose the building of a mosque near ground zero? i'm just wondering. i'm sure gipper will take time out of his other arguments on this board to provide for me a lengthy paragraph.
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funny yahoo comments time, apparently its cool to call him osama now
"Obama just showed his true color. He is not only a racist, a coward and a communist, he is now a traitor.
The Muslim already killed 3000 innocent Americans at World Trade Center, now they want to build a mosque at ground zero to further humiliate the 911 victims and the Christian world of faith with our own president as a accomplice, what kind of justice is that. Bill Clinton will not do that, if JFK is still alive, he will not do that, even Nixon would never do that. Only a traitor like Obama will do that, because his middle name is Hussin. How can Americans elected him to be our president. You tell me."
"Impeach this traitor. I bet if given the chance HE would have flown one of those planes himself!!! Instead He is trying to destroy America from the inside. America is his own Enron."
"Did he not care that when he went into office that he was to uphold not only the constitution but the voice of the people? He must have been in another country plotting against us. When he was sworn into office the people's voice was put on mute, say goodbye to Freedom and hello HELL!!!!!"
"What the hell Obama? There mine as a well be a statue of Hitler next to every Jewish temple while your at it. Another step to bringing America to their grave. I hope your happy Obama."
"its time for the people who remember what this country was founded on..to stand and take action!
osama..obama you better pack your bags find your self a hole to hide in!!!"
actually there are 30 pages of comments like this, my faith in humanity always gets raped by youtube and yahoo comments.
"A Protestant blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma City, so we should not allow Protestants to build any more churches in OKC."
thanks will f
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"A Protestant blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma City, so we should not allow Protestants to build any more churches in OKC."
thanks will f
that protestant's actions did not relate to any doctrinal teachings (unless you want to misquote or refer to the old testament) of christianity... whereas the muslims who took down the world trade centers were acting on their scriptural teachings, no matter how you choose to look at it.
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^
Not every Muslim is a terrorist, just like how not every White, Protestant male is a White supremacist.
is everyone a bigot if they oppose the building of a mosque near ground zero?
What reason can there be to oppose the building of a mosque, aside from religious intolerance? In other words, what is your reason for the opposition of the mosque?
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There is no reason; gnarcissistic is a bigot with an extremely limited understanding of Islam and Muslims in general.
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It's good to see America standing up for the ideals that made the country great in the first place.
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The reason why i dont support the mosque is because i understand that victims of 911 see alot more in the construction of a mosque near ground zero than conflict with religious freedom. Do you guys not understand why we were attacked in the first place?
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"A Protestant blew up the Federal building in Oklahoma City, so we should not allow Protestants to build any more churches in OKC."
thanks will f
that protestant's actions did not relate to any doctrinal teachings (unless you want to misquote or refer to the old testament) of christianity... whereas the muslims who took down the world trade centers were acting on their scriptural teachings, no matter how you choose to look at it.
(http://www.wyb.com/ss-0065snake_chip.jpg)
Here it comes
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Wait, so there's people that still think Muslims did it? ???
.............. ::)
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Ideally I would've placed nothing religiously affiliated in a 5 mile radius. Nothing even remotely Christian. Personally I find this a pretty dumb move on Obama's part - sure it's progressive, but it'll also cost you the next election. He seems to neglect the fact that people are still convinced, because of his middle name, that he's a secret Arab. Not smart.
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^ Are you fucking regular? Do you even know how many people live within a five mile radius of ground zero?
gnarcissistic, I think others have explained my thoughts well. I'm not the only one who thinks you are an ignorant piece of shit for this one. I don't understand why saying building a mosque should not be allowed is anything but intolerant? Explain please. I would go another step too and say if you don't want the mosque built, you are an unpatriotic coward who is willing to curb our freedoms as a result of a terrorist attack. The best thing to do for Al Qaeda right now is to ban islam in America. IT would empower the shit out of them, and do nothing for our safety. You don't need a mosque to plan an attack.
As far as your bullshit thing about saying that those who have acted violently in the name of Christianity are misinformed or misinterpreting the bible:
1) Every muslim I know says the EXACT SAME THING about Al qaeda's interpretation of Islam. They say that they are perverting Islam, and that violent interpretations of concepts such as jihad are actually perversions and not the true interpretation, which they say encourages peace.
2) How do you know YOU aren't misinterpreting the bible, and that it actually does encourage vile acts? I'd be willing to bet those people with the "God hates fags" signs at military funerals have read the bible more than you have, and at the same time, the people who wrote it are not here explaining what they meant, whether it is god or man who wrote it. How do you know you don't just turn religion into something that espouses your beliefs, while others turn religion into something that espouses theirs? Religion is an excuse, not a true guide of morality. Studies have proven it:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18216-dear-god-please-confirm-what-i-already-believe.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18216-dear-god-please-confirm-what-i-already-believe.html)
So basically, nobody changes themself to fit their religious beliefs, they manipulate their religious beliefs to fit their own, no matter what fucking religion it is.
The fact that you think Muslims are more likely than Christians to kill in the name of god makes you intolerant. Just remember, the land you live on came as the result of a mass genocide of native peoples in the name of Christ, not Mohammed. They justified it using Psalms 2:8 "Ask of thee, and I shall give thee, the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy posession" as well as Romans 13:2 "Whosoever resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." This is new testament stuff, used to justify multiple GENOCIDES, not just one attack. Are they interpreting it right? Maybe not according to you. Were they committing genocide in the name of Christ? Fuck yeah!
Also, Christians used the bible to justify slavery. Were they right, or twisting the bible's words? Who fucking cares? They used the bible and Christ's name to defend the system (not single act) of slavery.
You don't hear about this shit because mainstream high school history books generally don't talk about times white people or christianity was wrong.
Also, we were attacked because of our continued building of military bases in Saudi Arabia and our general interventions in the middle east, according to Bin Laden and the masterminds of the attack, but what do they know? They just did it. I'm sure Sean Hannity or whatever douchebag tells you what to think didn't tell you that though, did they? They told you its because we are christian or our freedom right? How fucking stupid are you?
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^ Are you fucking regular? Do you even know how many people live within a five mile radius of ground zero?
Two miles. One mile. Three blocks. I DON'T CARE - A RADIUS, regardless of yards and meters: something substantial, but nothing that will tear any churches/whatevers already withstand: just nothing new. Something that doesn't declare anything regarding religion on the way in or out - something that doesn't state an opinion, where a Muslim isn't going to feel afraid of other people's stares on his way to work past Ground Zero and where a Christian won't believe "the muzlims have wun". Please shut the fuck up.
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Expand Quote
^ Are you fucking regular? Do you even know how many people live within a five mile radius of ground zero?
Two miles. One mile. Three blocks. I DON'T CARE - A RADIUS, regardless of yards and meters: something substantial, but nothing that will tear any churches/whatevers already withstand: just nothing new. Something that doesn't declare anything regarding religion on the way in or out - something that doesn't state an opinion, where a Muslim isn't going to feel afraid of other people's stares on his way to work past Ground Zero and where a Christian won't believe "the muzlims have wun". Please shut the fuck up.
No. your idea is stupid. Oppressing all isn't oppressing none, and another mosque already exists 4 blocks from ground zero.
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^ Are you fucking regular? Do you even know how many people live within a five mile radius of ground zero?
gnarcissistic, I think others have explained my thoughts well. I'm not the only one who thinks you are an ignorant piece of shit for this one. I don't understand why saying building a mosque should not be allowed is anything but intolerant? Explain please. I would go another step too and say if you don't want the mosque built, you are an unpatriotic coward who is willing to curb our freedoms as a result of a terrorist attack. The best thing to do for Al Qaeda right now is to ban islam in America. IT would empower the shit out of them, and do nothing for our safety. You don't need a mosque to plan an attack.
As far as your bullshit thing about saying that those who have acted violently in the name of Christianity are misinformed or misinterpreting the bible:
1) Every muslim I know says the EXACT SAME THING about Al qaeda's interpretation of Islam. They say that they are perverting Islam, and that violent interpretations of concepts such as jihad are actually perversions and not the true interpretation, which they say encourages peace.
2) How do you know YOU aren't misinterpreting the bible, and that it actually does encourage vile acts? I'd be willing to bet those people with the "God hates fags" signs at military funerals have read the bible more than you have, and at the same time, the people who wrote it are not here explaining what they meant, whether it is god or man who wrote it. How do you know you don't just turn religion into something that espouses your beliefs, while others turn religion into something that espouses theirs? Religion is an excuse, not a true guide of morality. Studies have proven it:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18216-dear-god-please-confirm-what-i-already-believe.html (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18216-dear-god-please-confirm-what-i-already-believe.html)
So basically, nobody changes themself to fit their religious beliefs, they manipulate their religious beliefs to fit their own, no matter what fucking religion it is.
The fact that you think Muslims are more likely than Christians to kill in the name of god makes you intolerant. Just remember, the land you live on came as the result of a mass genocide of native peoples in the name of Christ, not Mohammed. They justified it using Psalms 2:8 "Ask of thee, and I shall give thee, the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy posession" as well as Romans 13:2 "Whosoever resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." This is new testament stuff, used to justify multiple GENOCIDES, not just one attack. Are they interpreting it right? Maybe not according to you. Were they committing genocide in the name of Christ? Fuck yeah!
Also, Christians used the bible to justify slavery. Were they right, or twisting the bible's words? Who fucking cares? They used the bible and Christ's name to defend the system (not single act) of slavery.
You don't hear about this shit because mainstream high school history books generally don't talk about times white people or christianity was wrong.
Also, we were attacked because of our continued building of military bases in Saudi Arabia and our general interventions in the middle east, according to Bin Laden and the masterminds of the attack, but what do they know? They just did it. I'm sure Sean Hannity or whatever douchebag tells you what to think didn't tell you that though, did they? They told you its because we are christian or our freedom right? How fucking stupid are you?
ronald reagan is the voice of reason in this thread. *head asplodes*
glad at least a few people on here aren't mindless drones.
stopping the building of a mosque, or any other religious facility near ground zero (or anywhere else in the US for that matter) goes directly against what america is all about.
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You're right about people using religion to justify their beliefs, which makes any further arguments about the validity of christianity unnecessary.
What i WILL say is that no major islamic organization has stepped forward to condemn the terrorist attacks carried out by other muslims. . . Whereas any christian organization will adamantly deny any association with the "god hates fags" crowd (as well as things like the witch hunts and genocides previously mentioned).
All of this is not to say i'm an islamaphobe... i can't hate any person because of heir beliefs. As you've said, there are plenty of sane muslims that not only denounce terrorism but also admit that the controversial mosque should be moved elsewhere.
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Fuck you you fucking moron. Have a nice slice of enlightenment you bigot piece of shit.
http://www.zeropartypolitics.com/2010/08/ground-zero-mosque-hysteria-americans.html (http://www.zeropartypolitics.com/2010/08/ground-zero-mosque-hysteria-americans.html)
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Also note that a CNN poll showed that 68% of people polled did not approve of the mosque being built, which is why building the mosque is as controversial as not building it.
Shouldn't it be the citizens who get to decide anyways? At least in that there should be some open discussion between the community and the organization that wants to build the mosque.
I'm not asking that a religious organization be denied a building permit, i just think it's a shitty idea is all.
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i started this thread just because i knew it would bring some quality rants...and they were delivered. I don't really have an opinion at all on this but in light of the bigotry and constant scrutiny many Muslims already suffer in the USA it is surprising to me that the organization would choose such a controversial location.... and yes i know it is not technically ground zero. either way i don't care if a mosque shows up there or not.
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Also note that a CNN poll showed that 68% of people polled did not approve of the mosque being built, which is why building the mosque is as controversial as not building it.
Shouldn't it be the citizens who get to decide anyways? At least in that there should be some open discussion between the community and the organization that wants to build the mosque.
I'm not asking that a religious organization be denied a building permit, i just think it's a shitty idea is all.
Because you are a bigot.
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In terms of popularity, that doesn't really matter in this issue. Our system is set up with a constitution guaranteeing religious freedom and a judicial system outside of politics who's sole purpose is to interpret the consitution so that the many could not oppress the few. Was slavery and jim crow segregation ok? A majority of the voting south supported it! Just because oppression is popular doesn't mean it is ok. Just because an issue in the constitution guaranteeing rights of a minority (1st amendment for religion, 14th for race/ethnicity) isn't popular also doesn't mean you just ignore it.
Also, how fucking ignorant can you possibly fucking be? No major Muslim groups against terrorism or 9/11? Have you fucking looked?! You seriously have to be intentionally not looking to see how the American Muslim community responded to this.
Just about ALL of them are! If you need some groups to look up here are a few:
http://www.freemuslims.org/ (http://www.freemuslims.org/)
http://www.m-a-t.org/ (http://www.m-a-t.org/)
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm (http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm)
There are countless more, including EVERY mainstream mosque in America.
As far as most Churches condemning homophobia? I fucking wish. If you lived in California during the prop 8 campaign, you'd realize quite quickly what most churches think of homosexuality. They don't condemn homophobia, they support it. Some may not, but the major evangelical organizations hate the gays. Rick Warren's saddleback church (the gayest name for a homophobic organization ever) considered to be mainstream, and not one of the crazy evangelicals, gave TONS of money to help oppress gay people in that election. Homophobia absolutely is a standard belief of most Christian churches. If you aren't like that, good, but that doesn't mean overall churches condemn homophobia at all.
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1. It's a community center.
2. The building used to be a fucking Burlington Coat Factory.
Saints be praised or whatever.
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Obama is doing the right thing but sadly that man will never be re-elected.
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I'd like to make it clear, again, that i'm not politically opposed to a mosque being built. i just think that it is in the muslim community's best interest to not build a mosque near ground zero. if you think i'm a bigot for that, well, okay.
and gipper, i never said anything about homophobia (though i will admit that christianity's response to homosexuality has, on a large scale, been very embarrassing). i said 'islamaphobia', in the context that i was reiterating that i am personally not afraid of muslims as a whole.
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Calling it a mosque is wrong. There's a mosque in it, but it has a pool too, so we all might as well refer to it as an indoor swimming hole.
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I don't care we all americans who gives a damn. On the flip side i could see how some could disagree with it.
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i think its great that obama is not showing hate toward islam but at the same time i would hold it to him to show me the same treatment as a christian."This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable." itd had better be the same for everyone but sadly it wont.
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I don't care we all americans who gives a damn.
...uptight, paranoid fuckwit xenophobes that think this will be the base of some sort of terrorist intelligence operation.
On the flip side i could see how some could disagree with it.
Thing is, most of the people that would rabidly disagree with it are also people that have to make a philosophical contradictions to hate on this...
They either believe in the free market or don't, and if they do than they shouldn't have a problem with this.
They either believe in the 1st Amendment or they don't... from the right to have their religion to assembling in the first place.
Had this been a Catholic or protestant community center, we wouldn't be hearing shit from the crazy folks.
I was really surprised to see the Anti Defamation League rail on this... stoooops. Innocent American Muslims just getting to work in their shitty office jobs died along with everyone else that did on 9-11. That and Bush have made this country's collective thinking regular.
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i think its great that obama is not showing hate toward islam but at the same time i would hold it to him to show me the same treatment as a christian."This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable." itd had better be the same for everyone but sadly it wont.
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??!?
Christians get preferential treatment over every religion in America! How the FUCK have you been oppressed in America? What the FUCK gives you the impression Obama isn't treating you right as a Christian?
Justify your stupid comment. Its insanely offensive.
What Obama said was that everybody gets religious freedom, no religion is given preferential treatment?
Where do you get the idea that Christians won't get fair treatment? He IS Christian! Why the fuck would he oppress himself?
Go back to fucking jesus camp you stupid Christian chauvinist.
Seriously, justify that using his words or policies.
Him saying its ok for Muslims to build mosques doesn't hurt Christians in one way.
Get the fuck out of here you stupid little fucking worm.
Also, gnarcisist, one of your most offensive points was that when Muslims act extreme, intolerant, or violent, nobody condemns them, but when the Westboro baptist Church has homophobic protests, they are condemned by the church. This is not so. The opposite is true.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Obama got reelected. People may not like him, but who are they going to vote for? A republican? They are less popular than Obama right now.
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um gee getting god taken out the pledge of allegiance,then getting the pledge banned altogether.nearly a thousand stories of people with crosses,bibles, or other christian monuments at organizations or government buildings having to be removed do to other religions complaining.having evolution taught soley because creation is just nonsense.i think that one makes me the most angry cause if anyone has the right to not say the pledge of allegiance then i should have the right to not learn evolution because its total crap.but instead in most cases evolution is the main focus even if creation is brushed on.
but the biggest issue has yet to come because with things like this already happening it proves that things will only get worse for christians and based on gods word the world will only persecute us more.
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I'm as "bleeding heart liberal" as they come
but I'm just not feeling the idea
of building a mosque/community center (whatever you wanna call it)
near ground zero
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um gee getting god taken out the pledge of allegiance,then getting the pledge banned altogether.
"God" wasn't in the pledge until Joe McCarthy made every non-Christian out to be a red commie. It was intentionally written without any religious sentiment... by a preacher.
nearly a thousand stories of people with crosses,bibles, or other christian monuments at organizations or government buildings having to be removed do to other religions complaining.
It's unconstitutional for a government institution to show preference to (aka "establish") any particular religious faith. In some cases, like the removal of the Ten Commandments idol at Jusge Moore's courthouse, it also helps prevent dipshits from believing that our laws are based on religious doctrine. If you want to see religious icons on public property, just check out the facade of the US Supreme Court building in DC... tons of religiously based characters, but portrayed in a non theological sense.
having evolution taught soley because creation is just nonsense.i think that one makes me the most angry cause if anyone has the right to not say the pledge of allegiance then i should have the right to not learn evolution because its total crap.but instead in most cases evolution is the main focus even if creation is brushed on.
Evolution is a fact, therefore the scientific theory of evolution is taught to explain what scientifically appears to be obvious.
Creationism is not science. It provides no cohesive theory, nor do Creationists/Intelligent Designers submit anything for peer review so that their predispositions can be put forth to any type of examination. They make claims that can't be falsified, therefore they don't meet the criteria that real sciences abide by. You know there are Christian scientists too, right? Magnets. Anyway...
but the biggest issue has yet to come because with things like this already happening it proves that things will only get worse for christians and based on gods word the world will only persecute us more.
How are you personally persecuted? How are you prevented from claiming you believe in your god? How are you prevented from tithing? Are you being kept from going to church? Can you find religious broadcasting on your TV?
I'm not a Christian, but your fake-martyrdom is shit-on-the-face to the real historical martyrs that prayed to the same god you think you do.
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the cordoba house's mission statement clearly says that it opposes muslims who use violence for political gain and does not believe the koran advocates violence. so, whoever said that not a single muslim group has denounced the 9/11 attack is a moron. you can read their statement on their website. of course, this only makes sense since the imam at cordoba house, feisal abdul rauf, was tapped by the bush administration to assist in muslim outreach for the war on terror. all of this is convienantly ignored because conservatives have realized that while the wars in iraq and afghanistan are getting less popular, hating muslims and brown people plays well with their base.
and whoever said that 60% of americans are against the cordoba house- i've got news for you, rights like religious freedom aren't based on opinion polls, they're guaranteed. that's what makes them rights.
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having evolution taught soley because creation is just nonsense.i think that one makes me the most angry cause if anyone has the right to not say the pledge of allegiance then i should have the right to not learn evolution because its total crap.but instead in most cases evolution is the main focus even if creation is brushed on.
I believe in persecuting people for being fucking morons.
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I just wrote a whole angry response that said pretty much everything Grim said. His was more clear.
DLX, get the fuck out of here you ignorant shit. Constitutional religious freedom has two parts: the establishment clause- the state will endorse no religion (including christianity) and the free exercise clause- the state will not stop the free exercise of any religion (including islam)
Also, the pledge thing was going on before Obama was even in the senate, how can you blame him for that?
Basically, Obama's speech was awesome because it refuted the "Christian nation" ideology that ignorant dipshits like DLX are pushing. THAT is why it was so awesome.
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based gods
(http://imnotatoy.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/obamabased.jpg?w=415&h=351)
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^ Seen this before. Its clearly some off reference I am missing. Can you explain so I can be in on it too?
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you know the westboro baptist church is pretty much just a family, right? they have like... 50 members.
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To be fair, persecution in the united states is entirely different than in other places in the world. I suppose it all depends on how you were raised/ what you grew up knowing as 'life' in general. some people think that being shoved into a locker because they're carrying a Bible is tough, and in their defense it truly is for them.
but i've been to a lot of countries where Christianity truly is persecuted in every sense of the word. China being one of the worst.
no doubt Christians in america are spoiled, but that could be said about any american with any belief system.
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Expand Quote
i think its great that obama is not showing hate toward islam but at the same time i would hold it to him to show me the same treatment as a christian."This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable." itd had better be the same for everyone but sadly it wont.
Christians get preferential treatment over every religion in America! How the FUCK have you been oppressed in America? What the FUCK gives you the impression Obama isn't treating you right as a Christian?
Justify your stupid comment. Its insanely offensive.
What Obama said was that everybody gets religious freedom, no religion is given preferential treatment?
Where do you get the idea that Christians won't get fair treatment? He IS Christian! Why the fuck would he oppress himself?
Go back to fucking jesus camp you stupid Christian chauvinist.
Seriously, justify that using his words or policies.
Him saying its ok for Muslims to build mosques doesn't hurt Christians in one way.
Get the fuck out of here you stupid little fucking worm.
Also, gnarcisist, one of your most offensive points was that when Muslims act extreme, intolerant, or violent, nobody condemns them, but when the Westboro baptist Church has homophobic protests, they are condemned by the church. This is not so. The opposite is true.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Obama got reelected. People may not like him, but who are they going to vote for? A republican? They are less popular than Obama right now.
LOL Not to mention this country itself was built upon Christianity XD
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To be fair, persecution in the united states is entirely different than in other places in the world. I suppose it all depends on how you were raised/ what you grew up knowing as 'life' in general. some people think that being shoved into a locker because they're carrying a Bible is tough, and in their defense it truly is for them.
but i've been to a lot of countries where Christianity truly is persecuted in every sense of the word. China being one of the worst.
no doubt Christians in america are spoiled, but that could be said about any american with any belief system.
...it's just the absurdity of the idea... someone stating that the majority of the US is persecuted by the powerful non Christians through a legal means, when nearly every single politician has a cross on his/her collar or some belief in a Judeo god.
Hell, on top of that... the being pushed into lockers thing, while to that individual it may feel lame, I dare say I've been far more "persecuted" for being a skater (even when I was a Christian, but in Louisiana almost everyone claims that set). These religions have their own schools and colleges, TV networks, and are the most mainstream people in the country.
It's one thing to proactively be against the religious (strictly for being so, something I choose not to do), but I'm damned sure not going to treat anyone with a religious faith as I would a fragile handicapped person, which seems like something that a few with the martyr complex want.
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i never said obama was to blame i like the guy except for his lack of control of things.but i was referring to the country as a whole.and please stop referencing the country as a christian nation cause its not and never has been.franklin and washington were deists as was most of the country.
and if you dont feel christians are persecuted then how would you feel if you were the only one in a class that believed otherwise about evolution and couldnt say anything because you would be made fun of or whatever.i know this goes on with other religions and i dont support that,but it happens to me as a christian as well so dont say that christians arent persecuted.sure we can go to church freely and go about or lives but if i were to say quote the bible or pray in a way that offended someone you better be sure that i would be harrassed for it.look at the miss usa chick, she may not be a model christian but atleast she stood up for something thats right.
and also evolution hasnt been proven, its as much a theory as creation.so dont call us morons for believing something thats easier to believe.
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but i've been to a lot of countries where Christianity truly is persecuted in every sense of the word. China being one of the worst.
uhhhhhhhhhhhh what? i mean, what the fuck are you talking about? give me an example.
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^china puts christians in prison as does north korea.
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and if you dont feel christians are persecuted then how would you feel if you were the only one in a class that believed otherwise about evolution and couldnt say anything because you would be made fun of or whatever.i know this goes on with other religions and i dont support that,but it happens to me as a christian as well so dont say that christians arent persecuted.sure we can go to church freely and go about or lives but if i were to say quote the bible or pray in a way that offended someone you better be sure that i would be harrassed for it.look at the miss usa chick, she may not be a model christian but atleast she stood up for something thats right.
If you're in a biology or physics class and you spout creationist bullshit, you deserve every tongue lashing you get. That's not being persecuted for being a Christian, that's being ragged on for trying to spout non-science as fact in a scientific environment. If you act like a dumbass, many people will treat you like one.
Pop quiz: how many creationist theories have helped create drugs, develop better livestock & produce, and assisted with our understanding of the natural world?
Answer: None. Creationists don't create scientific theories.
If you want to feel persecuted, then aim that at whoever has led you down a path of ignorance. That's your villain. Evolution is a science based on data, not unattainable levels of faith.
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i never said obama was to blame i like the guy except for his lack of control of things.but i was referring to the country as a whole.and please stop referencing the country as a christian nation cause its not and never has been.franklin and washington were deists as was most of the country.
and if you dont feel christians are persecuted then how would you feel if you were the only one in a class that believed otherwise about evolution and couldnt say anything because you would be made fun of or whatever.i know this goes on with other religions and i dont support that,but it happens to me as a christian as well so dont say that christians arent persecuted.sure we can go to church freely and go about or lives but if i were to say quote the bible or pray in a way that offended someone you better be sure that i would be harrassed for it.look at the miss usa chick, she may not be a model christian but atleast she stood up for something thats right.
and also evolution hasnt been proven, its as much a theory as creation.so dont call us morons for believing something thats easier to believe.
yes, evolution is a SCIENTIFIC theory, which is why it's being taught in a science class. if you want to learn about creationism i would recommend you take a religion course which uses the bible as its course material, because since aristotle science hasn't been concerned with things like a divine unknowable power. i have no pity for someone who feels "left out" of a science course because they refuse to learn the material. it's called school you whiny christer weirdo. science is religiously neurtal.
as for being persecuted against- give me a fucking break. we've had a black president yet there hasn't even been an outspokenly atheist CANDIDATE in the modern era.
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^china puts christians in prison as does north korea.
for attending unregistered churches, it has happened on a few occasions (~300) in mainland china, about ten years ago. but china is mostly taoist and buddhist, religious tolerance is widespread. in the last 5 years there have been little to no cases of christian persecution. christian persecution is mostly a thing of the past there. if you were a christian tourist, it's not as if the locals would sneer at you. nothing even close to that. china is pretty chill on that front
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UGH- one more thing. creationism and evolution are both theories but evolution has literally a century of verifiable and observable evidence, whereas creationism was a theory first and uses any gap in scientific understanding to "prove" creationism. not teaching creationism in school does not infringe on a student's right to believe whatever regular unfounded shit they want outside of the class room, but teaching it in school takes resources away from an actually science driven curriculum (which produces actual breakthroughs in medicine and technology) and would discriminate against students who take science class TO FUCKING LEARN SCIENCE.
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UGH- one more thing. creationism and evolution are both theories but evolution has literally a century of verifiable and observable evidence, whereas creationism was a theory first and uses any gap in scientific understanding to "prove" creationism. not teaching creationism in school does not infringe on a student's right to believe whatever regular unfounded shit they want outside of the class room, but teaching it in school takes resources away from an actually science driven curriculum (which produces actual breakthroughs in medicine and technology) and would discriminate against students who take science class TO FUCKING LEARN SCIENCE.
Well said. Can I get my named changed to "fuck jesus" just to piss off DLX111?
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UGH- one more thing. creationism and evolution are both theories but evolution has literally a century of verifiable and observable evidence, whereas creationism was a theory first and uses any gap in scientific understanding to "prove" creationism. fucking regular.
I sincerely apologize for nitpicking, but creationism isn't a theory. At best it's a hypothesis, but it's a stretch to even go that far since it doesn't provide proposed explanations for the mechanics of observable phenoms... it doesn't "suppose," rather it "presupposes."
Evolution is a theory because it is a fact. In science (and academics in general), theories hold more weight than "fact" because theories explain the bits about how the fact came to be.
...and before it comes up I'll mention that the best challenge to anything in the evolution debate are the scientists that change theories as the data changes. Having said that, there's no scientific argument about the basic mechanics of evolution, and it's as observable as can be. It's why our flu shots are made for different strains every year.
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there have been plenty of scientist who have switched to creation as well because of the lack cohesiveness of evolution.but as far as i can see evolution is only fact because scientists have evidence that they think proves the theory and allows them to accept evolution as fact.whereas christians use the bible as our evidence as well as the physical world.
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�I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.�-Gandhi
religion misoverstood is poison..it's 20fucking10 i can't believe people are still so fanatical about personal opinions.
"humanity, you never had it to begin with"- bukowski
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there have been plenty of scientist who have switched to creation as well because of the lack cohesiveness of evolution.but as far as i can see evolution is only fact because scientists have evidence that they think proves the theory and allows them to accept evolution as fact.whereas christians use the bible as our evidence as well as the physical world.
Theories aren't proven or disproven, they're either supported or not supported. Evolution is a fact because it happens all the time, all around us. I gave you examples of industries earlier... all of which use parts of evolution (random mutation, natural selection) to even exist. There's no question as to whether or not evolution exists... the only scientific debates that arise are far, far removed from the basis of the theory... if they're arguing, they're arguing about things like how a specific trait may or may not be passed on every second generation or something equally mind-numbing. They're not debating that evolution exists.
In academics, EVERYTHING is a theory. Education itself is predicated upon several education theories. Gravity is a theory.
Read your Bible and enjoy your faith, but even when I was a Christian I knew that I was powerless to create my own facts. Reality is reality. Many Christians reconcile this by concluding that their god used evolution to initiate creation. I don't believe that, but at least they don't deny the obvious reality that evolution occurs.
Question dlx: based off of the big chronological order of people who begat people who begat people, do you believe in the literal interpretation that the Earth is somewhere around 6,000 years old, too?
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but i've been to a lot of countries where Christianity truly is persecuted in every sense of the word. China being one of the worst.
the falun gong, while not specifically a christian organization, is a better known example of China's lack of respect for human rights.
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there have been plenty of scientist who have switched to creation as well because of the lack cohesiveness of evolution.but as far as i can see evolution is only fact because scientists have evidence that they think proves the theory and allows them to accept evolution as fact.whereas christians use the bible as our evidence as well as the physical world.
The only evidence which could contribute to supporting any theory regarding the development of species comes from observable physical phenomena. This is according to the scientific method which has been proven by results to be the best method of attaining real, practicable knowledge about the world we live in. The bible does not meet this criteria because none of the events described in it are historically verifiable, especially genesis which, pretty much by definition, could not have been witnessed and recorded or even comprehended by any human being, especially not the dudes who were writing about it thousands of years later. You can certainly say things like "look at that tree, it's too complex and beautiful to be accidentally created" or "look how well this banana fits into the human hand" but this isn't evidence either, just assumption. The processes by which trees and bananas came into existence in their current forms have been mapped in minute detail by thousands of experts over time using OBJECTIVE OBSERVATION and experimentation rather than assumptions, which are much less reliable. You may not understand their theories but that is not a grounds to reject them. The banana thing is a perfect example because they were manipulated from their natural form
(http://ken_ashford.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/02/wildbanana_small.jpg)
into a friendlier "banana 2.0" by farmers using selective breeding techniques (which rely on the basic processes of genetic heredity that make up the foundation of evolution).
Basically, the theory of evolution is like this:
(http://www.marieclaire.com/media/cm/marieclaire/images/fighter%20jet.jpg)
Whereas creationism (not really a theory by scientific standards) is like this:
(http://www.buzzle.com/img/articleImages/295151-34211-53.jpg)
The former is meticulously crafted, minutely detailed and actually works. The latter may be fun and easier to understand but lacks all of the advantages of a real, working fighter jet (metaphorically speaking).
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It doesn't matter what people think about the Mosque.
You either believe of freedom of speech/religion or you don't.
I do, and luckily our constitution does too.
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but i've been to a lot of countries where Christianity truly is persecuted in every sense of the word. China being one of the worst.
the falun gong, while not specifically a christian organization, is a better known example of China's lack of respect for human rights.
The argument is not about China's lack of respect for human rights. Everyone knows China sucks at human rights. It's about the supposed persecution of Christians in the modern world, which so far seems to consist of governmental meanies refusing to give them preferential treatment over members of every other religion.
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i never said obama was to blame i like the guy except for his lack of control of things.but i was referring to the country as a whole.and please stop referencing the country as a christian nation cause its not and never has been.franklin and washington were deists as was most of the country.
and if you dont feel christians are persecuted then how would you feel if you were the only one in a class that believed otherwise about evolution and couldnt say anything because you would be made fun of or whatever.i know this goes on with other religions and i dont support that,but it happens to me as a christian as well so dont say that christians arent persecuted.sure we can go to church freely and go about or lives but if i were to say quote the bible or pray in a way that offended someone you better be sure that i would be harrassed for it.look at the miss usa chick, she may not be a model christian but atleast she stood up for something thats right.
and also evolution hasnt been proven, its as much a theory as creation.so dont call us morons for believing something thats easier to believe.
You are a moron. It boggles my mind that you think creation is more believable than evolution. The irony of that statement is quite mind blowing. I thought that most Christians believe in some kind of middle ground where god started evolution because they see the evidence and cannot possibly deny it. On the subject of homophobia in Christianity, it is plain to see that most Christians do not condemn homosexuality. For the example, the Arch Bishop of Canterbury Dr. Rowan Williams is openly gay and was so before he became Bishop. There is no higher position in the church of England.
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Question dlx: based off of the big chronological order of people who begat people who begat people, do you believe in the literal interpretation that the Earth is somewhere around 6,000 years old, too?
Fossils are simply the Devil's work ::) :D
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So if you think the bible is a science book, do you believe that the Earth is the center of the Universe and that the sun goes around the Earth? That's in the bible.
The bible's scientific theories are consistently proven wrong. I don't know why people hold so hard onto the evolution vs. creationism one. As if them admitting that one more thing in the bible is bullshit will really change anything. Rational people have plenty of scientific evidence to point to to prove the bible was clearly not written by an all knowing god. At this point those who still believe in that bullshit aren't going to let anything change their mind.
I disagree with religion in general, but when people tell me it is more of a spiritual guide and not to be taken literally, I can at least understand it. The morons who believe every word of the bible is true blow my mind.
Also, which of these have happened to you? I know several biology teachers who do teach evolution, and they actually get annoyed at how hard they have to tip toe around something so obvious because any way the creationists will flip out over anything. I also don't know of any teachers who mock their students or encourage students to mock other students for their beliefs. Has this ever happened to you?
The Christian persecution complex is so annoying. YOU GUYS CONTROL EVERYTHING!
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(http://directorofrecruiting.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/05/13/popcorn.jpg)
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all this arguing over a flying spaghetti monster.
Evidence that God = Spaghetti Monster! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIBfNsPDw1I#)
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Really, its over civil liberties. I would definitely support allowing a church of FSM being built anywhere, even two blocks from the Chef Boyardee factory.
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I wonder if the Westboro Baptist Church makes their own picket signs. It'd probably be a funny scene if they go to a sign shop and tell the employees what they want their signs to say.
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anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/ (http://www.ummah.com/forum/)
also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344) if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.
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anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/ (http://www.ummah.com/forum/)
also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344) if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.
Your ignorance and stupidity is disturbing.
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Again, it was a Burlington Coat Factory. It's in a perfectly fine district.
When I went to visit the spot where the towers were a few years ago, you know what was across the street? A multi-storied department store that sells knockoff clothes at really affordable prices. Is that provocative too?
Good luck on your infiltration into the Muslim underbelly. You're a patriot.
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dlx is the stupidest racist piece of shit on here. "I know if I keep digging I'll find something to justify my blind hate of Muslims!"
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anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/ (http://www.ummah.com/forum/)
also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344) if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.
have you ever seen the comments on a right wing (yet somehow "mainstream") news site like politico? their are people on there that say their religion tells them they must wage war on the obama administration! that the president is the antichrist foretold of in their sacred text! we should put a ban on churches that are "too close" to government buildings because of all the overtly violent threats. and i'm sorry, but if you want to search people at the airport maybe the people wearing crosses are a good choice, since some of their leaders claim that homosexuals caused 9/11, protest at dead soldier's funerals and obviously hate 'MERICA. an entire sect of christianity is run by a kabal of pedophiles who seem to be above the law for chist sake. and unlike al qaeda they have actual political clout in this country.
see the audacious things your kind of reasoning can do to a faith? sucks doesn't it? and that theory would still have more basis in fact than whatever "terror babies" theory the christian right thinks up next.
seriously, i have taken multiple religion courses and not once has someone ever bitched that they didn't teach evolution as a viable choice to whatever creation myth we were learning. does anyone think children should be forced to learn evolution in sunday school? of course not. anything "christian" almost always sucks be it music, science, history, literature, or art (at least since the renaissance when these were considered the building blocks of society). yet markets exist for this kind of bullshit because enough idiots get together and defend it as an equally valid opinion to whatever the rest of the rational world thinks. conclusion: christians are the whiniest most hypocritical bunch of cry babies, who if anything are coddled by society no matter how much harm their "special views" do to this country or its constitution. and yet somehow, giving in only fuels their never ending Holy waaaaa-fest. my theory is: fuck christians, they're nothing but a bunch of repressed pedophiles who take out their holy anger on brown people, intellectuals and, in a horribly obvious ironic twist that could only escape the most entitled believer's mind, gays.
but that's just my theory.
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Your theory is more believable than creationism.
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anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone �is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/ (http://www.ummah.com/forum/)
also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344)� if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity" - Ann Coulter.
Sounds pretty disturbing to me. In fact it sounds almost exactly the same as Al Queda's interpretation of Jiihad! I will suppose that as a fellow christian you subscribe 100% to Ann Coulter's views.
If they were "up to something" the last thing they would want is the intense media attention and scrutiny that they've been getting over this whole issue. Again this is an extremely moderate organization who condemned the 9/11 attacks and probably wouldn't get any great pleasure in building their place of worship on top of the charred corpses of our fallen heroes as so many right wing retards such as yourself have suggested.
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anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/ (http://www.ummah.com/forum/)
also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344) if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.
have you ever seen the comments on a right wing (yet somehow "mainstream") news site like politico? their are people on there that say their religion tells them they must wage war on the obama administration! that the president is the antichrist foretold of in their sacred text! we should put a ban on churches that are "too close" to government buildings because of all the overtly violent threats. and i'm sorry, but if you want to search people at the airport maybe the people wearing crosses are a good choice, since some of their leaders claim that homosexuals caused 9/11, protest at dead soldier's funerals and obviously hate 'MERICA. an entire sect of christianity is run by a kabal of pedophiles who seem to be above the law for chist sake. and unlike al qaeda they have actual political clout in this country.
see the audacious things your kind of reasoning can do to a faith? sucks doesn't it? and that theory would still have more basis in fact than whatever "terror babies" theory the christian right thinks up next.
seriously, i have taken multiple religion courses and not once has someone ever bitched that they didn't teach evolution as a viable choice to whatever creation myth we were learning. does anyone think children should be forced to learn evolution in sunday school? of course not. anything "christian" almost always sucks be it music, science, history, literature, or art (at least since the renaissance when these were considered the building blocks of society). yet markets exist for this kind of bullshit because enough idiots get together and defend it as an equally valid opinion to whatever the rest of the rational world thinks. conclusion: christians are the whiniest most hypocritical bunch of cry babies, who if anything are coddled by society no matter how much harm their "special views" do to this country or its constitution. and yet somehow, giving in only fuels their never ending Holy waaaaa-fest. my theory is: fuck christians, they're nothing but a bunch of repressed pedophiles who take out their holy anger on brown people, intellectuals and, in a horribly obvious ironic twist that could only escape the most entitled believer's mind, gays.
but that's just my theory.
first of all i said before in a previous thread that those types of christians youre referring to arent chrstians. if youve ever read the bible youd know that as christians were supposed to love EVERY human being regardless of what he or she has done because no one is better than anyone.the people who read the bible searching for literature to fuel their blind hate are being used by satan, ive seen this firsthand in my own family so dont tell me it isnt true.
also the pedophile thing i guess you keep referring to catholics or some other denomination those people again arent christians. no where in the bible does it say its okay to rape or molest children and just go on with your life. god does not,never has,and never will support someone who does those things in his name or claiming to be justified in his name.
lastly i didnt read the whole article and i have no idea who that lady is.i watch the news like everybody else and hardly believe any of it which in turn forces me to watch multiple stations as well as multiple papers,whatever.
the main point of my statement was WHY would you, as a religious group that is hated in this country mostly by die hard americans, which i am not, go and build a mosque near something that you knew would create controversy.thats all im saying.
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I can understand questioning their logic in doing it, but not their right.
On another slightly related note, this:
Slayer Goes To Church (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHb4gs1hwck#)
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anyway does anybody on here lurk muslim forums? i had found some after watching a thing on 60 minutes im curious to see if anyone is talking about the new york mosque.i have found some disturbing stuff on this one though. http://www.ummah.com/forum/ (http://www.ummah.com/forum/)
also http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100814/ts_afp/uspoliticsreligionattacksobama_20100814172344) if your read down one the muslim liberals or whatever says that its a provocative site for them to build this mosque and i was wondering why out of all places in new york do they need one that close to ground zero? i know there isnt alot of space in new york but wouldnt you choose a less controversial area just to be respectful,makes me think their up to something.
have you ever seen the comments on a right wing (yet somehow "mainstream") news site like politico? their are people on there that say their religion tells them they must wage war on the obama administration! that the president is the antichrist foretold of in their sacred text! we should put a ban on churches that are "too close" to government buildings because of all the overtly violent threats. and i'm sorry, but if you want to search people at the airport maybe the people wearing crosses are a good choice, since some of their leaders claim that homosexuals caused 9/11, protest at dead soldier's funerals and obviously hate 'MERICA. an entire sect of christianity is run by a kabal of pedophiles who seem to be above the law for chist sake. and unlike al qaeda they have actual political clout in this country.
see the audacious things your kind of reasoning can do to a faith? sucks doesn't it? and that theory would still have more basis in fact than whatever "terror babies" theory the christian right thinks up next.
seriously, i have taken multiple religion courses and not once has someone ever bitched that they didn't teach evolution as a viable choice to whatever creation myth we were learning. does anyone think children should be forced to learn evolution in sunday school? of course not. anything "christian" almost always sucks be it music, science, history, literature, or art (at least since the renaissance when these were considered the building blocks of society). yet markets exist for this kind of bullshit because enough idiots get together and defend it as an equally valid opinion to whatever the rest of the rational world thinks. conclusion: christians are the whiniest most hypocritical bunch of cry babies, who if anything are coddled by society no matter how much harm their "special views" do to this country or its constitution. and yet somehow, giving in only fuels their never ending Holy waaaaa-fest. my theory is: fuck christians, they're nothing but a bunch of repressed pedophiles who take out their holy anger on brown people, intellectuals and, in a horribly obvious ironic twist that could only escape the most entitled believer's mind, gays.
but that's just my theory.
also the pedophile thing i guess you keep referring to catholics or some other denomination those people again arent christians. no where in the bible does it say its okay to rape or molest children and just go on with your life. god does not,never has,and never will support someone who does those things in his name or claiming to be justified in his name.
lastly i didnt read the whole article and i have no idea who that lady is.i watch the news like everybody else and hardly believe any of it which in turn forces me to watch multiple stations as well as multiple papers,whatever.
the main point of my statement was WHY would you, as a religious group that is hated in this country mostly by die hard americans, which i am not, go and build a mosque near something that you knew would create controversy.thats all im saying.
WOW! you completely missed the point of my post and then went around and proved its' original argument! incredible! the point of the post was to show that judging all of christianity based on a couple of extreme examples is a stupid way to go about things. but no stupider than judging islam based on a couple extreme examples. is that clear enough for you? my post was parodying your extremely fucked up world view while also pointing out the amount of entitlement it takes to not see the similarities between the two. way to go, dumbshit.
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It doesn't matter what people think about the Mosque.
You either believe of freedom of speech/religion or you don't.
I do, and luckily our constitution does too.
freedom of speech and religion are tricky subjects in america, they kind of come in spurts
no doubt some of the frustration involved here is the result of people who have been fighting for freedoms less politically asinine than building a mosque near ground zero. he did put his neck on the line for the muslims, and although taking a stand against the turbulent religious and racial climate post 9/11 is a noble cause, I cant help but feel for a lot of american minorities who are equally deserving and still unrepresented. its a fucked up country though, im sure the reaction would be even worse if he stood up for the gay rights.
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I don't see why other minorities would be offended that he stuck his neck out for Muslims. He also stuck his neck out for latinos when the justice department sued Arizona. I agree that he should do more on gay issues, but its a separate thing.
Also, I think most issues of freedom come as a result of controversial or foolish seeming actions. People don't challenge freedoms when it is not something controversial, and it doesn't take courage to get behind something inoffensive or without controversy.
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There is definitely a mystery to the Earth and The Universe. I find it rather strange that we don't discover the evolution of man in nature still. There was a literal explosion of homo sapiens on the planet. Now we have distinct races, that have very strong gene pools to keep a Caucasian person looking Caucasian and an Asian person looking Asian. Not only their physical characteristics, but preferences in food, their immune system's response to disease/ailments, works in art, all are very different across the board between the races on the planet.
The distinction between Humans and Chimpanzees is immense, what can the smartest chimpanzee do and how about the smartest human. But our DNA is soooo close.
Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.
(http://blog.enn.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/human-evolution.gif)
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RWhuje7s82A/0.jpg)
(http://srikrsnapurefoodsandnaturalfarming.com/attachments/Image/12-of-the-DNA-Differs-Amongst-Human-Races-and-Populations-2.jpg)
Crazy.
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I haven't been keeping up with this thread but here's my 2 cents...
Almost 70% percent of Americans are against building a Mosque
near ground zero
So am I to assume that 70%
of our population is made up of racist, ignorant, islamaphobes?
Personally, I think it is in bad taste and unwise to build a Mosque
near ground zero. Even our President who first sounded
like he was for building the mosque on Friday, reiterated with this
on Saturday
Obama- "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding."
I know many of our more enlightened and sophisticated
people in this Country "get it." They understand that it's not about
a Mosque near ground zero. It's about standing up for what make our Nation great.
We have many freedoms, and one of which is the freedom to practice any religion
we see fit. But there are many of us who DO NOT and WILL NOT
ever see it in that light. Many of our population will see it as an
insult to the people who have lost their lives in 9-11
So is building a Mosque near ground zero right?
I don't know.. is it wise, or in good taste.
I think not.
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Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.
Crazy.
I don't think you understand how evolution works. We don't have much natural selection weeding out humans without certain qualities thus causing us to evolve. The only evolution I could think of happening would be more of an "idiocracy" style evolution where it is cultural and cultures that reproduce less will eventually die out and ones that make more babies prosper. But were not gunna be evolving gills and built in jetpacks.
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So that's it then. Muslims are terrorists. Even American ones. Beyond just dictating what building they can and can't get in Manhattan, why don't we ship them into a camp or something?
I mean, I see it now. Muslims are less American than everyone else. Perfect logic. Palinesque.
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Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.
Crazy.
I don't think you understand how evolution works. We don't have much natural selection weeding out humans without certain qualities thus causing us to evolve. The only evolution I could think of happening would be more of an "idiocracy" style evolution where it is cultural and cultures that reproduce less will eventually die out and ones that make more babies prosper. But were not gunna be evolving gills and built in jetpacks.
homosapien is not endgame. to an extent we are controlling many aspects of out own natural selection, but nature is still in control of random mutations. gills, maybe? never say never!
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Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.
Crazy.
I don't think you understand how evolution works. We don't have much natural selection weeding out humans without certain qualities thus causing us to evolve. The only evolution I could think of happening would be more of an "idiocracy" style evolution where it is cultural and cultures that reproduce less will eventually die out and ones that make more babies prosper. But were not gunna be evolving gills and built in jetpacks.
How do you know what we will or won't evolve into?
You don't think the leap into agriculture and rapid growth of technology has anything to do with evolution? How did that happen? Or why did that happen?
If man requires computers to do all the work, what will we evolve into? You don't think that we will have a different physical appearance after another 100 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years? Only culture evolves? What about inside our body? Nervous system, immune system, our senses...
You're very right on culture being an ongoing process, language is the biggest supporter of that. But we are able to build computers because we have an opposable thumb. And nothing on this planet has that ability, and if over time we start letting computers do all the work, and humans are doing less manual labor and thinking....then what?
Also consider all the synthetic and non organic implants we have in medicine, surgery, rehabilitation, etc.. And interbreeding between races. Who knows...
I'm definitely not an expert on evolution but I know all the serious discussions around it deal mostly with genes, dna, mutation, brain size, and fossils.
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So that's it then. Muslims are terrorists. Even American ones. Beyond just dictating what building they can and can't get in Manhattan, why don't we ship them into a camp or something?
I mean, I see it now. Muslims are less American than everyone else. Perfect logic. Palinesque.
ouch!
I can agree to disagree on this one.
However, I always appreciate your perspective all things Politics,skatenerd, etc...
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Think about what the homo sapien will evolve into in 1 million years.
Crazy.
I don't think you understand how evolution works. We don't have much natural selection weeding out humans without certain qualities thus causing us to evolve. The only evolution I could think of happening would be more of an "idiocracy" style evolution where it is cultural and cultures that reproduce less will eventually die out and ones that make more babies prosper. But were not gunna be evolving gills and built in jetpacks.
How do you know what we will or won't evolve into?
You don't think the leap into agriculture and rapid growth of technology has anything to do with evolution? How did that happen? Or why did that happen?
If man requires computers to do all the work, what will we evolve into? You don't think that we will have a different physical appearance after another 100 years? 1000 years? 10,000 years? Only culture evolves? What about inside our body? Nervous system, immune system, our senses...
You're very right on culture being an ongoing process, language is the biggest supporter of that. But we are able to build computers because we have an opposable thumb. And nothing on this planet has that ability, and if over time we start letting computers do all the work, and humans are doing less manual labor and thinking....then what?
Also consider all the synthetic and non organic implants we have in medicine, surgery, rehabilitation, etc.. And interbreeding between races. Who knows...
I'm definitely not an expert on evolution but I know all the serious discussions around it deal mostly with genes, dna, mutation, brain size, and fossils.
Not to mention the fact that sudden profound environmental changes can trigger natural selection and with it start the mutation process to ADAPT. That's what adaptation is. How do you think the creatures that exist today came to be? When the Earth was forming, there was a LOT of environmental changes going on. Where there was water, creatures without gills were forced to adapt somehow, for example.
People forget about how evolution can work. It can be very slowly, over a significant amount of time, but can also be triggered in other manners. Humans are still able to evolve. It's what made us the top of the food chain we are today. Homo sapien was the most adaptable species, so thus we prosper and thrive more. I haven't heard any scientific breakthroughs lately that say,"Humans are unable to evolve physically. But every other animal can and will." It makes no sense. I do agree with you though, Giovanni. I was more or less also getting to his point of the inability for humans to evolve.
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first of all i said before in a previous thread that those types of christians youre referring to arent chrstians. if youve ever read the bible youd know that as christians were supposed to love EVERY human being regardless of what he or she has done because no one is better than anyone.the people who read the bible searching for literature to fuel their blind hate are being used by satan
Well, you're obviously not a Christian.
Quit being a fucking pussy. Don't blame "Satan." People need to take responsibility for their actions.
The people responsible for 9/11 were extremists; people who used Islam for political power. By your standards, they are not true Muslims. Anyway, fuck you. (By the way, you don't deserve to have DLX as part of your user name.)
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I haven't been keeping up with this thread but here's my 2 cents...
Almost 70% percent of Americans are against building a Mosque
near ground zero
So am I to assume that 70%
of our population is made up of racist, ignorant, islamaphobes?
Personally, I think it is in bad taste and unwise to build a Mosque
near ground zero. Even our President who first sounded
like he was for building the mosque on Friday, reiterated with this
on Saturday
Obama- "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding."
I know many of our more enlightened and sophisticated
people in this Country "get it." They understand that it's not about
a Mosque near ground zero. It's about standing up for what make our Nation great.
We have many freedoms, and one of which is the freedom to practice any religion
we see fit. But there are many of us who DO NOT and WILL NOT
ever see it in that light. Many of our population will see it as an
insult to the people who have lost their lives in 9-11
So is building a Mosque near ground zero right?
I don't know.. is it wise, or in good taste.
I think not.
yay! a non-biased thoughtful response! they have every single right to build it there, however if i were the organization i would choose a different location simply because there is no need to bring additional animosity towards a group of people of whom 98% are tragically misunderstood.
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I haven't been keeping up with this thread but here's my 2 cents...
Almost 70% percent of Americans are against building a Mosque
near ground zero
So am I to assume that 70%
of our population is made up of racist, ignorant, islamaphobes?
Personally, I think it is in bad taste and unwise to build a Mosque
near ground zero. Even our President who first sounded
like he was for building the mosque on Friday, reiterated with this
on Saturday
Obama- "I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding."
I know many of our more enlightened and sophisticated
people in this Country "get it." They understand that it's not about
a Mosque near ground zero. It's about standing up for what make our Nation great.
We have many freedoms, and one of which is the freedom to practice any religion
we see fit. But there are many of us who DO NOT and WILL NOT
ever see it in that light. Many of our population will see it as an
insult to the people who have lost their lives in 9-11
So is building a Mosque near ground zero right?
I don't know.. is it wise, or in good taste.
I think not.
Your argument is based on the ad populum logical fallacy. Just because many people believe one side does not make them right.
Over 70% of Nazi Germany approved of Hitler's actions.
Around 70% of the white south approved of slavery before the civil war.
So by your logic, there is nothing racist about the holocaust or slavery because a lot of people approved of it.
Also, in terms of people being right, the same chunk of the U.S. population believed Iraq had WMD, and almost as many believed Saddam was linked to 9/11. Were they right because many people agreed?
See the problem in your argument?
Good.
Its been said earlier in this thread and I will reiterate because you admitted you skipped most of it: civil rights can not be decided based upon popularity. They exist so that the majority can not oppress the minority, no matter how large that majority is.
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I'm really pretty neutral in this whole thing.
I'm just stating that the whole things seems like a bad idea. That's all.
Okay, lets say this thing gets built and is up and running in a year.
How long will it take till one of these right wing nut jobs runs up
in there and starts unloading firearms in the name of "freedom"
I'm sure the aftermath of that
will spark some interesting debate as well
Instead of bringing different people together
I'd imagine that would do the exact opposite
again, I'm just saying that the whole things just smells like a bad idea
I'm aware that my opinion is not popular
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Yeah, I didn't think he was necessarily saying that 70% of Americans think it's wrong, just that it's in bad taste. No?
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Yeah, black people and white people should never have started 'intermarrying' either, it's in 'bad taste' and will just cause unneeded controversy.
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I'm only addressing the attempt to apply academic logical fallacies to argue against someone's taste.
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I'm only addressing the attempt to apply academic logical fallacies to argue against someone's taste.
My claim was valid. The popularity of an opinion does not make its logic any more valid. He claimed that because so many people believed it was a bad idea, they must not be racist or ignorant. That clearly is not necessarily the case. He was using a textbook ad populum approach to support his argument.
Yeah, black people and white people should never have started 'intermarrying' either, it's in 'bad taste' and will just cause unneeded controversy.
Its only a matter of time before some nut goes on a killing spree of intermarried people, which will obviously spark more debate. We should always cower to the will of violent people. That's how the civil rights movement succeeded too.
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I'm only addressing the attempt to apply academic logical fallacies to argue against someone's taste.
So you still believe that everyone who opposes the idea is a xenophobe?
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if the mosque is in "bad taste" i think it's time to examine which group of people have been bestowed "good taste." the cordoba house has been financed and planned for years from back when even republicans acknowledged that when you are in a war for hearts and minds it's important to distinguish that we are not at war with islam, which would not only be historically misguided but counterproductive and unwinnable, we are at war with terrorism. to ask them to stop construction at this late a date just because some conservative politicians have decided to invent a wedge issue is ridiculous. it should also be mentioned that under construction mosques have been attacked from california to wisconsin, if cordoba house is not allowed to be built it would set a precedent in favor of an already disturbing trend happening in america of intimidation and innuendo leveled against muslim places of worship.
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I think they have every right to build it. However, it is of taste on par with American soldiers draping the US flag over statues of Sadam when we were supposed to be "liberators" rather than conquerors.
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I'm only addressing the attempt to apply academic logical fallacies to argue against someone's taste.
So you still believe that everyone who opposes the idea is a xenophobe?
No. I never said that- Muslims aren't necessarily foreign dipshit. What does it have to do with xenophobia? Don't fucking pull some Dr. Laura bullshit where the people taking ignorant positions get offended when they are called ignorant. I do believe that if you oppose any group's ability to be able to build a temple on private property that they own that you oppose freedom of religion, and are taking an ignorant and dangerous position. You can like it or dislike it, but to say they shouldn't have the right to is a different thing. The poll was on whether or not they should be allowed to build it, not whether or not it is in good taste. I don't see what is so complicated about that.
Also, are you going to admit that it clearly is an ad populum logical fallacy? I mean, that is what you came at me for- not my actual position on the issue.
And when are we going to finish our conversation about Arizona? You kind of fell off when the judge agreed with me that the law was clearly unconstitutional. I never heard your reaction.
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Oh man. First of all, do you think the Arizona thing is over? Wasn't my whole point that the reason for the law was to create an issue and that's exactly what's happening? The more courts the law faces, the more states that consider similar legislation, the more evidence for my case. Calm down dude, you're in your late 20's? You get so emotional. You've been waiting very patiently for me to log in to the Slap forum to bring that up haven't you?
Able's claim was that "Almost 70% percent of Americans are against building a Mosque near ground zero." That's what I read. If that means that they believe they should not be allowed to build it and not whether or not they thought it was a good idea, then my bad. Take your lithium and breathe.
In any regard, he brought up "So am I to assume that 70% of our population is made up of racist, ignorant, islamaphobes?" in response to your habit of making every issue as simple as "homophobes! xenophobes! racists!" If only, brother. I understand that his argument was ad populum, but I also understand that he was not really arguing that because the masses are in opposition, that they are correct. He was baiting you to admit that you think everyone who opposes this is a xenophobe, and that present day America is equal to 1940's Germany.
You seriously need to get laid.
(ad hominem, teach?)
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And getting back to dlx111...
It Seemed So Plausible (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk#)
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Oh man. First of all, do you think the Arizona thing is over? Wasn't my whole point that the reason for the law was to create an issue and that's exactly what's happening? The more courts the law faces, the more states that consider similar legislation, the more evidence for my case. Calm down dude, you're in your late 20's? You get so emotional. You've been waiting very patiently for me to log in to the Slap forum to bring that up haven't you?
Able's claim was that "Almost 70% percent of Americans are against building a Mosque near ground zero." That's what I read. If that means that they believe they should not be allowed to build it and not whether or not they thought it was a good idea, then my bad. Take your lithium and breathe.
In any regard, he brought up "So am I to assume that 70% of our population is made up of racist, ignorant, islamaphobes?" in response to your habit of making every issue as simple as "homophobes! xenophobes! racists!" If only, brother. I understand that his argument was ad populum, but I also understand that he was not really arguing that because the masses are in opposition, that they are correct. He was baiting you to admit that you think everyone who opposes this is a xenophobe, and that present day America is equal to 1940's Germany.
You seriously need to get laid.
(ad hominem, teach?)
Every issue an issue of that? No. I never have said it was. When a white cop kills an unarmed black man, race becomes an issue no matter what you talk about, when Arizona breaks the constitution and creates a situation that breeds racial profiling while simultaneously banning ethnic studies in its schools, it is a racial issue. When people want to ban a mosque being built in New York city near ground zero, it is a test of religious tolerance. I'm not just inventing the scenarios out of thin air, and other than those situations, race hasn't come up as an issue. You just like to claim its not there when it is, and then instead of looking at issues as they are, classify me as a reactionary. The way you talk reminds me of that Dr. Laura radio clip, where she says all that racist shit then comes back saying "don't naacp me, don't misrepresent me as racist, the people who do that are terrible." Its so cliche, and its wrong too.
And it may not be over in Az, but the only time it has come up for a challenge, the judge has only agreed with me. My logic is sound,and that law was unconstitutional. Simple as that. They can appeal it all they want, the facts of the case won't change. Also, I guarantee the ruling is upheld.
(and not really ad hominem, the krux of your argument was not based on the insults, they were like a cherry on top)
And I'm not actually as worked up as you picture me.
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I was referring to the part about you needing to get laid. While it may be true, it neither supports nor discredits any argument.
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Calling it a mosque is wrong. There's a mosque in it, but it has a pool too, so we all might as well refer to it as an indoor swimming hole.
Lot's of Mosques have pools in them. They're called hamams.
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UGH- one more thing. creationism and evolution are both theories but evolution has literally a century of verifiable and observable evidence, whereas creationism was a theory first and uses any gap in scientific understanding to "prove" creationism. fucking regular.
I sincerely apologize for nitpicking, but creationism isn't a theory. At best it's a hypothesis,
It's not even that, it's a parable in a book of short stories.
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whats going down is a 100 percent constitutional so I don't see the big deal
Its not like the world trade is getting replaced with a mosque
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So that's it then. Muslims are terrorists. Even American ones. Beyond just dictating what building they can and can't get in Manhattan, why don't we ship them into a camp or something?
I mean, I see it now. Muslims are less American than everyone else. Perfect logic. Palinesque.
I can agree to disagree on this one.
However, I always appreciate your perspective all things Politics,skatenerd, etc...
(I'm your bromo)
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Calling it a mosque is wrong. There's a mosque in it, but it has a pool too, so we all might as well refer to it as an indoor swimming hole.
...the point being that this is a community center.
I think they have every right to build it. However, it is of taste on par with American soldiers draping the US flag over statues of Sadam when we were supposed to be "liberators" rather than conquerors.
Is it tasteless because the people that are opening this facility up are terrorists? Please explain.
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I'm really pretty neutral in this whole thing.
I'm just stating that the whole things seems like a bad idea. That's all.
Okay, lets say this thing gets built and is up and running in a year.
How long will it take till one of these right wing nut jobs runs up
in there and starts unloading firearms in the name of "freedom"
I'm sure the aftermath of that
will spark some interesting debate as well
Instead of bringing different people together
I'd imagine that would do the exact opposite
again, I'm just saying that the whole things just smells like a bad idea
I'm aware that my opinion is not popular
thank you thats all i was trying to say to me, if i were a muslim i would have chosen a different spot out of respect. thats all i dont hate muslims i dont hate islam so enough.
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maybe a mosque will make that part of the city less of a target?
the really sad part is, if the mosque is built it will be probably be finished before the 9/11 memorial.
come this september, it'll be 9 years and millions of wasted tax dollars for that sweet hole in the ground that has been there since 2001! thats what i call milking it.
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I'm really pretty neutral in this whole thing.
I'm just stating that the whole things seems like a bad idea. That's all.
Okay, lets say this thing gets built and is up and running in a year.
How long will it take till one of these right wing nut jobs runs up
in there and starts unloading firearms in the name of "freedom"
I'm sure the aftermath of that
will spark some interesting debate as well
Instead of bringing different people together
I'd imagine that would do the exact opposite
again, I'm just saying that the whole things just smells like a bad idea
I'm aware that my opinion is not popular
Bullshit.
Anyway, if you ever visit NY, see the center, become dismayed at the lack of taste, you can walk one block over to St. Peter's and wash it out of your system or walk a little further and have a beer and hit up a hookah with some cab drivers.
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I think they have every right to build it. However, it is of taste on par with American soldiers draping the US flag over statues of Sadam when we were supposed to be "liberators" rather than conquerors.
Is it tasteless because the people that are opening this facility up are terrorists? Please explain.
I'll try. When American troops come to Iraq, overthrow their dictator, and then cover a statue of said dictator with an American flag, it may come off as a bad pr move, as it could be read by some in Iraq that American troops are simply there to assume dictatorship. (even though American soldiers are not dictators)
Likewise, when foreign Islamic jihad troops come to America, take down some buildings that symbolize capitalism, and then American Muslims build a mosque close to where those buildings used to be, it may come off as a bad pr move. (even though American Muslims are not terrorists)
Anyway, we could argue over taste for days and get nowhere, (i.e. Gip & COTG in any UWTB thread) so we won't.
The bottom line is that taste has nothing to do with legality. Which means the building should be built. It also means that if someone is arguing about taste, and someone else is arguing about legality, it makes for a thread that is very frustrating to read.
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We were foreign invaders in Iraq, and we fucked up by putting our flag up because it wasn't the declared intent to conquer the country. Agreed.
The Islamic center is an American building that will cater to US citizens and visitors alike. There is no equivalency.
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Ok well I tried.
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I just don't think we have to pander to the lowest common denominator, those people being the ones who can't separate a religion (with nearly as many flavors as Christianity) with killers... and again, killers who murdered innocent Muslims in New York as well.
On top of that, if we allow and continue to demonize Muslim Americans, we're basically giving the extremists exactly what they want, a nation that openly hates anyone with Islamic leanings. The US is supposed to be better than that.
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I agree. I never said I was part of the 70%, but I can hear the argument. Personally, I think any building of worship should be illegal, along with any marriage. Why do we institutionalize things that are supposed to be most personal to us?
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I don't trust deeply religious people of any persuasion.
I say let 'em build the fuckin' building, but my gut feeling is that the space should probably be a skate plaza instead.
Well, maybe there'll be some ledges or something over there.
Brothers and sisters, you shall not find peace until you open your hearts and accept Dennis Busenitz as your Lord and saviour.
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I don't trust deeply religious people of any persuasion.
I say let 'em build the fuckin' building, but my gut feeling is that the space should probably be a skate plaza instead.
Amen.
My opinion, its a magnificent gesture, and should be applauded.
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Personally, I think any building of worship should be illegal,
I'm fine with them, but there are some that get away with tax-exempt status that certainly shouldn't.
along with any marriage. Why do we institutionalize things that are supposed to be most personal to us?
You get good deals on taxes and stuff. But having said that, marriage is what you make it. My wife and I considered ourselves married years before we "technically" were, we went to the Justice of the peace mainly so the folks wouldn't pass on with their kids 'shackin' up," but that's more of a southern thing (I think).
Narcissus: Ok, a skate plaza might actually be sick, but it would probably be attacked even more ferociously. Luckily, skaters have beaten Palin before (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1597276/20081016/story.jhtml).
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funny that this is actually a serious political issue. what possible legal reason could be given to defend preventing this from happening?
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Yeah get rid of the marriage tax incentive too. You're exactly right about it is what you make of it. So is faith. Like you said, you don't need the law to decide that you're going to be with your wife for the rest of your life, you just have to be with her. You also don't need an institution to tell you how to read some scriptures.
Anyway...
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2010/08/14/int.henry.obama.cnn (http://cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2010/08/14/int.henry.obama.cnn)
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Converting an indian to christianity - don't let the devil win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvVAV09-dQ8#)
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Personally, I think any building of worship should be illegal,
I'm fine with them, but there are some that get away with tax-exempt status that certainly shouldn't.
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along with any marriage. Why do we institutionalize things that are supposed to be most personal to us?
You get good deals on taxes and stuff. But having said that, marriage is what you make it. My wife and I considered ourselves married years before we "technically" were, we went to the Justice of the peace mainly so the folks wouldn't pass on with their kids 'shackin' up," but that's more of a southern thing (I think).
Narcissus: Ok, a skate plaza might actually be sick, but it would probably be attacked even more ferociously. Luckily, skaters have beaten Palin before (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1597276/20081016/story.jhtml).
I think the shacking up thing is actually just kind of an old fashioned thing. My parents were pissed about my sister living with her boyfriend before they were married and actually used the term "shacking up" when I asked him why he wasn't happy that they have decided to be more serious in their relationship.
I don't think old folks realize the younger generation actually fuck just as much no matter where they live
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Converting an indian to christianity - don't let the devil win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvVAV09-dQ8#)
holy crap, those girls might be the biggest trolls ever. they cannot be serious.
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Yeah get rid of the marriage tax incentive too. You're exactly right about it is what you make of it. So is faith. Like you said, you don't need the law to decide that you're going to be with your wife for the rest of your life, you just have to be with her. You also don't need an institution to tell you how to read some scriptures.
Yeah, I definitely dig on the tax incentive, but I've never looked into the history of it. If marriage ever did get dissolved, me and the missus would probably just incorporate. haha
I dig on what you said about the institutions telling people how to read scriptures and the faith stuff... before I realized I had deconverted (it was slow and something I wasn't really aware of), I had personally gotten really disillusioned with the whole institution bit. At one time, I was the type of dude that would debate today's me until I was blue in the face, then I got more into the "it's a personal thing, and I'm not a fucking preacher..." and on and on.
Anyway...
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2010/08/14/int.henry.obama.cnn (http://cnn.com/video/?/video/politics/2010/08/14/int.henry.obama.cnn)
Politically, the best move he could have made. He supported the constitutionality of it, but stayed out of the emotional argument. He has Democratic senators in some red states he has to lend a hand to pretty soon. Removing himself from that argument and sticking strictly to his professional opinion was all he needed to do.
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Converting an indian to christianity - don't let the devil win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvVAV09-dQ8#)
holy crap, those girls might be the biggest trolls ever. they cannot be serious.
They probably aren't. But if they are, it makes me so happy that I'm not a Christian anymore.
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THANK YOU
BASED COLE
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Suddenly, for defending the first amendment, a sect of my family believes I worship satan and I'm unAmerican. It was sad for the moment before I realized I could give a fuck what dumb people think. I can't believe 70% of the country really thinks this is the most horrible thing in the world. I want people to get back to work so they have less time to be stupid. Not to be all Gipperish and absolute but if you think there is any reason to stop this, please go somewhere else. You don't deserve The Bill of Rights protecting you.
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Suddenly, for defending the first amendment, a sect of my family believes I worship satan and I'm unAmerican.
I never fucking understood that shit. Most of the Republicans and all the Tea Party bitches complain about how Obama is taking away their freedom, rights, etc. Yet, they're against the idea of freedom of religion, which is part of the first amendment, as you stated.
Earlier today, I was watching Good Morning America, but I don't know if I heard correctly. I think the mosque is being moved. On a random note, 18% of Americans believe that Obama is Muslim, compared to 11% from last year. Also, some guy, who was an advisor to Bush, who lost his wife on 9/11, even saw how fucked up the situation is. He said that Muslims have a right to build the mosque and it's wrong to deny them just because of some extremists.
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Wow can't believe they are moving it, I don't see any problem with it near the 9/11 attack. I can understand how some people would be pissed, but I mean if we were fucking with the middle east you can't expect them to be pushed around forever. I basically have the same view as Ron Paul when it comes to the war. GTFO and leave them alone.
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THANK YOU
BASED COLE
hahahaha, amazing.
I'm not xenophobic, just misanthropic. People are the fuckin' worst.
Not sure why many of you are surprised that this is mad controversial (like Pappalardo threads on SLAP)...Just read some YouTube comments if you want heartrending confirmation that the majority of your peers are borderline or fullblown imbeciles.
Look at it this way: Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.
Someone really outta round up the Dr. Lauras, the Dr. Phils, the Sarah Palins, the JRs, the Ann Coulters, the knobgobblers, the BASED COLEs, the Elisabeth Hasselbecks of the world and slap them with a sock filled with batteries.
They're embarrassing the species.
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Yeah, there are talks about it, but nothing confirmed.
If they do wind up buying another building instead, then we're the scared anti Muslims that the batshit crazy fundy terrorists say we are. Maybe we can provide them with their own water fountains to drink out of too, so as not to offend any other precious snowflakes that are non Muslim. Goddammit.
Someone really outta round up the Dr. Lauras, the Dr. Phils, the Sarah Palins, the JRs, the Ann Coulters, the knobgobblers, the BASED COLEs, the Elisabeth Hasselbecks of the world and slap them with a sock filled with batteries.
They're embarrassing the species.
Dirty socks, at that.
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Samuel Kornachuk it me, or is Obama's health care plan seem like a bad idea?
Tuesday at 10:57pm
Samuel Kornachuk the new law states that if you do not have health insurance by the year 2014, then you get a huge fine. the law should be prohibited
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Ack, there's so much wrong with that FB thread.
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What really bugs me the most about all of this is the people who are the most against it are people who aren't fuckin from New York, never come to New York, and didn't lose anyone in 9/11. Hey dumb fucks from the midwest, New Yorkers have never given a fuck about your shitty opinions and we're not going to start now.
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Whoa, that was your 911th post...
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http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/outrage-over-plans-to-build-library-next-to-sarah-palin-201008193017/ (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/outrage-over-plans-to-build-library-next-to-sarah-palin-201008193017/)
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Suddenly, for defending the first amendment, a sect of my family believes I worship satan and I'm unAmerican. It was sad for the moment before I realized I could give a fuck what dumb people think. I can't believe 70% of the country really thinks this is the most horrible thing in the world. I want people to get back to work so they have less time to be stupid. Not to be all Gipperish and absolute but if you think there is any reason to stop this, please go somewhere else. You don't deserve The Bill of Rights protecting you.
Because Americans are the biggest hypocrites on the planet and it almost makes me ashamed to be even born here. We're ignorant, pretentious, disrespectful, and loud people. For example: If we build nuclear weapons, it's okay. But if anyone else does it's like,"Whoa whoa whoa! Hold on there, you can't do that! Only we can!". Luckily, I've educated myself so I'm not like clone zombie that does what the TV says. I agree with you completely, sweets.
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What really bugs me the most about all of this is the people who are the most against it are people who aren't fuckin from New York, never come to New York, and didn't lose anyone in 9/11. ? Hey dumb fucks from the midwest, New Yorkers have never given a fuck about your shitty opinions ? and we're not going to start now.
haha, fuck yeah
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Expand Quote
What really bugs me the most about all of this is the people who are the most against it are people who aren't fuckin from New York, never come to New York, and didn't lose anyone in 9/11. ? Hey dumb fucks from the midwest, New Yorkers have never given a fuck about your shitty opinions ? and we're not going to start now.
haha, fuck yeah
sorry, dude- bill of rights still applies to everyone. it's no different than the rednecks who want the damn federal gubment out of their backyard on civil rights. i'm sure it's annoying but tough shit, that's how it works.
also multiple survivors and widows have come out in favor of the community center and their were muslims who died in the towers and as first responders. we didn't ask them how they worshipped when they gave their lives, we have no right telling them where they can worship now.
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Just saw some thing on face book along the lines of "Is tired of hearing all the controversy about the mosque in new york. Have respect for the dead and build it some where else."
lulzzz
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Keith Olbermann Special Comment: There Is No 'Ground Zero Mosque' - 08/16/10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Muxoo0#)
This was pretty interesting on the subject.
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Islam is only being showered with "tolerance" because it is the cannon fodder of Cultural Marxism in the west. Soft headed liberals are the useful idiots of both.
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You call protests and associating all Muslims with terrorism tolerance?
...or do you mean the other people that respect the Constitutional and free market rights these people have?
In this event, "soft headed liberals" are being more traditionally conservative than their philosophically inconsistent counterparts.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQBrTROj2w&feature=player_embedded#!
This is too good.
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Holy shit! That's amazing... haha
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Because Americans are the biggest hypocrites on the planet and it almost makes me ashamed to be even born here. We're ignorant, pretentious, disrespectful, and loud people. For example: If we build nuclear weapons, it's okay. But if anyone else does it's like,"Whoa whoa whoa! Hold on there, you can't do that! Only we can!". Luckily, I've educated myself so I'm not like clone zombie that does what the TV says. I agree with you completely, sweets.
you are right Based Cole. every country on earth should have massive stock piles of nuclear weapons. especially Libya and Iran.
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^You completely misinterpreted his point. No one should have nuclear weapons at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQBrTROj2w&feature=player_embedded#!
This is too good.
Haha. 55 likes and 935 dislikes. Usually YouTube is filled with White supremacist pieces of shit spewing racist bullshit.
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I'm lovin' it.
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I can't believe people are so fuckin stupid
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life?GT1=43001 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life?GT1=43001)
Lol @ the comments and this
"Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" blared over loudspeakers as mosque opponents chanted, "No mosque, no way!"
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I can't believe people are so fuckin stupid
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life?GT1=43001 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life?GT1=43001)
Lol @ the comments and this
"Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" blared over loudspeakers as mosque opponents chanted, "No mosque, no way!"
God i hate America. My girl is one of those "he's a secret Muslim" people and when i asked her why it mattered what his faith was she couldn't reply. People get so shitty about this whole religion thing. Live and let live, God damn.
edit: i just found this and thought it was funny
http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Political-Cartoons-atheism-523266_600_408.jpg (http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Political-Cartoons-atheism-523266_600_408.jpg)
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they left a hole in the ground for like 8 yrs
something should have been built there a long time ago
but
out of all the places to build a mosque
why ground zero
infuckinsane
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^ Its not ground zero, there was open space in manhattan with cheap rent, and nobody else wanted to build anything there.
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so its just near it then
open office space in manhattan with cheap rent that nobody wants
rarer than steak
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque?CMP=twt_gu (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque?CMP=twt_gu)
good article from today's Guardian on this topic
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so its just near it then
open office space in manhattan with cheap rent that nobody wants
rarer than steak
Maybe they should shut down all businesses, churches, and other organizations so we can turn Manhattan into a sacred desert.
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The US runs on Saudi Arabian oil in any case. Whats the big deal about some shrine to Islam when we are comfortably in bed with the home country of the 911 boogeymen anyway?
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:kO5tqvCAXRRR0M::blog.c77c.net/2008/06/bush-dances-in-saudi-arabia/&t=1&usg=AFrqEzfH0oDvOGNmq9oWsD1RqER96-hAhw)
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the actions of the few, justifies the hate of all. america, fuck yeah!
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i read somewhere that they were planning on opening it on 9/11/2011. someone please tell me this isn't true
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(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:dVVky5po18ZdMM::www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bush41/program/enlarged-index.html&t=1&usg=AFrqEzcUL9PXYL-UPPgMIMfnE75VMmvUog)
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque?CMP=twt_gu (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/23/charlie-brooker-ground-zero-mosque?CMP=twt_gu)
good article from today's Guardian on this topic
Perhaps spatial reality functions differently on the other side of the Atlantic, but here in London, something that is "two minutes' walk and round a corner" from something else isn't actually "in" the same place at all. I once had a poo in a pub about two minutes' walk from Buckingham Palace. I was not subsequently arrested and charged with crapping directly onto the Queen's pillow. That's how "distance" works in Britain. It's also how distance works in America, of course, but some people are currently pretending it doesn't, for daft political ends.
According to a recent poll, one in five Americans believes Barack Obama is a Muslim, even though he isn't. A quarter of those who believe he's a Muslim also claimed he talks about his faith too much
i love Charlie Brooker
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Spatial reality does work differently here, and I admire Charlie Brooker for shitting on the Queen's pillow.
I do find it ironic that he brought the figurehead queen into his argument about the greater rationality of Great Britain though.
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haha, for real.
But I don't think the point that he is trying to make is that British people are more rational, but about how the media sensationalising and scapegoating can lead to ugly mob mentalities.
He just tweeted these two articles likening the situation now with an event that happened in England a few years ago
http://gawker.com/5619136/anti+ground-zero-mosque-rally-freaks-out-at-black-guy?skyline=true&s=i (http://gawker.com/5619136/anti+ground-zero-mosque-rally-freaks-out-at-black-guy?skyline=true&s=i)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/vigilante-mob-attacks-home-of-paediatrician-710864.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/vigilante-mob-attacks-home-of-paediatrician-710864.html)
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I can't believe people are so fuckin stupid
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life?GT1=43001 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life?GT1=43001)
Lol @ the comments and this
"Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" blared over loudspeakers as mosque opponents chanted, "No mosque, no way!"
One other funny thing about that... one that the much older and less alive Gipper fell for... "Born in the USA" is an anti-war song.
There's irony in the mix, and it's delicious.
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The song is actually very critical of the United States all together, and really condemned a lot of Reagan's ideas. A big part of the song is also about living in a dead factory town that got sold out, people go off to fight a war that he realizes is pointless for a country that claims will give them opportunities and ends up screwing them.
It is in absolute opposition to most of Reagan's policies, and beliefs but has been consistently misused by not only him, but many ignorant people on the right (please note, "ignorant" in this sense has nothing to do with beliefs they hold, but with the fact that they choose the song without knowing what it means)
here are the lyrics:
Born down in a dead man's town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
'Til you spend half your life just covering up
[chorus:]
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I got in a little hometown jam
And so they put a rifle in my hands
Sent me off to Vietnam
To go and kill the yellow man
[chorus]
Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says "Son if it was up to me"
I go down to see the V.A. man
He said "Son don't you understand"
[chorus]
I had a buddy at Khe Sahn
Fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone
He had a little girl in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms
Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years down the road
Nowhere to run, ain't got nowhere to go
I'm a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I'm a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
On a sidenote: Bruce Springsteen is lyrically amazing, and reminds me of almost a modern day Woodie Guthrie. Coincidentally, Guthrie's song "This land is your land" which was highly critical of the U.S. as well, has been used as a patriotic anthem for decades. Usually the last two verses:
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!"
and
"In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me."
are removed. However, these last two verses change the entire tone of the song from some happy go lucky hippy campfire song into a serious criticism.
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(http://i.imgur.com/HtUTm.jpg)
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^ Sums up the mentality perfectly!
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sometimes i'm really embarrassed to be from the states.
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Expand Quote
I can't believe people are so fuckin stupid
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life?GT1=43001 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38807231/ns/us_news-life?GT1=43001)
Lol @ the comments and this
"Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" blared over loudspeakers as mosque opponents chanted, "No mosque, no way!"
edit: i just found this and thought it was funny
http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Political-Cartoons-atheism-523266_600_408.jpg (http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Political-Cartoons-atheism-523266_600_408.jpg)
Your girl is dumber than a bag of hammers.
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(http://i.imgur.com/HtUTm.jpg)
thats a good post!!!
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sometimes i'm really embarrassed to be from the states.
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(http://i.imgur.com/HtUTm.jpg)
Can I borrow this? It would piss off the right people via random email. I very seldom use those regular kook/gnar buttons but you earned it for this. +1
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go for it, i found it somewhere else haha... just thought it was a perfect way to sum up the situation.
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Expand Quote
sometimes i'm really embarrassed to be from the states.
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Like someone else said, this shouldn't even be a national issue. FOX is just using this for political purposes because the midterm elections are about 60-80 days away. And, a lot of politicians, on the other side, aren't voicing their true opinions, because it would fuck with their votes. At least a third of America is filled with fat fucks. Most people probably don't even know how far two blocks is. From an aerial view, yeah...it's close, but not when walking there.
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Some Christian is just gonna fly a plane into it once it's built.
It's Jihad, motherfucker. The fucking American Crusade. This land was not made for the Saracen. Time for them to go! GOD WILLS IT!
The Evangelical crowd that the Bush dynasty managed to co-op are going rabid over this shit. These assholes in all seriousness are probably the same people who want to believe Obama is a Muslim, even after condemnng the preacher who heads up the Christian church that Obama attended. People say that he goes to a crazy black church, but then that he's also a Muslim. What the shit? The incongruency of their belief is redolent of the kind of mass psychosis that underlies the stereotypes people have of the US.
This country is filled with delirious psychotics. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's got something to do with the water.
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fluoride
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Haven't been following this thread, so I don't know if someone may have posted this or not, but this sums it up nicely too
http://www.markfiore.com/
Should be the first vid that you see, it's called "cat and mosque"
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http://www.funnyordie.com/stories/bb8b81e5bd/jon-stewart-turn-off-fox-to-fight-radical-islam?playlist=featured_documents (http://www.funnyordie.com/stories/bb8b81e5bd/jon-stewart-turn-off-fox-to-fight-radical-islam?playlist=featured_documents)
This one was good, Jon Stewart connecting the fact that News Corp is Co-owned by a man named Prince Al-Waleed bin Tala, who is also funding the company trying to build the Islamic community center. All I have to say is that Fox News are a bunch of dumb fuck.
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http://www.funnyordie.com/stories/bb8b81e5bd/jon-stewart-turn-off-fox-to-fight-radical-islam?playlist=featured_documents (http://www.funnyordie.com/stories/bb8b81e5bd/jon-stewart-turn-off-fox-to-fight-radical-islam?playlist=featured_documents)
This one was good, Jon Stewart connecting the fact that News Corp is Co-owned by a man named Prince Al-Waleed bin Tala, who is also funding the company trying to build the Islamic community center. All I have to say is that Fox News are a bunch of dumb fuck.
Once you're public anyone can invest, so no, not really. Also, Fox News did not create this issue. If no one gave two shits about it they wouldn't ever talk about it...that's all they do, is tell their audience what it already wants to hear.