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General Discussion => WHATEVER => Topic started by: Tufty on October 31, 2015, 06:21:56 AM
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Biggest tragedy Europe has faced since WWII. The previous government of Greece built a wall between greek-turkish ground frontiers(EU funded of course) so that immigrants and refugees cant come in Greece and EU. This instead of intimidating desperate people led to the usage of more dangerous routes via the sea which are impossible to be guarded but are far more dangerous. Many Asians take on this trip without knowing how to swim. That is how desperate they are. The result is a big number of refugees end up dead and some of them are being washed up in the shores of greek islands.
Imperialist games of Europe and the US have created this situation and dont take responsibility because they are afraid that their piece of shit system cant handle the immigrants they created with their wars and their planted exploitative governments. Fuck them and their system. Refugees are the back ups we need to destroy their establishment. Open borders is the minimum we should demand.
A video locals made to show the daily situation in their small island.
Refugees dead 30/10/2015 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM0oO4tBytE&feature=youtu.be#)
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couldn't watch it till the end, horrible
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If you are against the refuge situation you are branded a racist and islamophobe .
Heres the situation in sweden , medical healthcare is declining , people are over worked , under paid , Swedish students are getting worse and worse , teachers over worked and under paid . We have a higher unemployment rate , we have a shortage in living arrangements .
We have a increasing weird political situation where the far right ( borderline racist) being the third biggest party , maybe second biggest party now . And all sides seem to agree that integration of emigrants in sweden is not working at all
They are saying Sweden is getting almost 200 000 new refuges every year to sweden . Swedens fourth largest city is about 200 k . We are only about 8 or 9 million in sweden . And we are getting 200k new each year . These people need housing , they need food and money . And we need to integrate them , give them swedish lessons , Schooling and a job .
Afew days ago the Swedish Forigne minister was asking the other countries to help out with the refuge situation in sweden cause
we are heading to a collapse structural and financially
Sweden is a glass of water with which already has cracks in it , and is over full . And you want to add more water into it ?
More and more people are supporting our most Right / racist party . People are protesting . Some guys are even burning down
refuge centers. Theres been some incidences in sweden where at High school graduations .Swedish flags were banned cause they were
complaints that they were racist flags ...
Why isnt the neighbor Arab/ Muslim countries taking in these refugees Saudi Arabia is one of the richest coutnries in the world but they seem to say they dont want these refugees since the pose a threat to their country structure . What Asian countries are taking in refuges ? It really blows my mind that Arab / Muslim countries think its too dangerous for their countries economics and structure of politics to accept them , but europen countries should do it
Greece who was in tons of shit with their economy and finances finaly solved it with a new loan , just got hit weeks later with this refuge crises and got fucked over again .
This is some EU breaking up , whole countries getting fucked up situation . I dont really have solution for this beside the Arab / Muslim countries taking in them instead of us .
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Hi, Monty,
Here's a map I found on Google which you might find useful re: neighbouring countries taking in refugees.
(https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/IHBacZFzO8kUQa2ueTtl5ePNkKY=/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4097392/refugees-fpo5.0.jpg)
As you can see, the vast majority of the refugees have been taken in by them, and there are millions internally displaced. But yes, SA should take some in too, as should other Gulf states.
Here's another map showing how many people applied for asylum in Europe i nthe past 4 years. Sweden has the 2nd highest numbers in Europe, but nowhere near the 200k each year. Yes, the numbers are higher now, but again, not as high as you say.
(http://www.edmaps.com/assets/images/syrian_refugees_europe_july_2015.png)
Also, the US should take in most of the refugees, as it was their foreign policy (yet again) which caused much of what is happening. Europe is already facing the consequences of their complicity.
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why should saudi arabia take in any refugees? they dont have to and they are an totally autocratic country (-10 on polity IV) and take a shit on human rights and human rights conventions. i rather live in a liberal democracy that values human rights, fulfills the responsibilities coming alongside with it and protect people who had to flee from their country respectively the wars in their countries. assad should have been removed from office already four or five years ago as the arab spring started, to begin with.
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Europe will eventually be totally Islamic. People just aren't having babies anymore, and Islams outfuck everyone on earth. You can't expect to keep your country by having 1.2 babies per 2 people.. it's going to happen so start breeding or stop complaining.
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Yo Alan !
So the map with Sweden in it says almost 65 thousand Syrian asylum seekers between april 2011 and june 2015 . We both know this number has gone way up in 2015 since the Syrian crisis has gone way way up . I mean if u put the numbers between 2001 and 2005 we would have almost no Syrian asylum seekers .
You also have to take in this is registered asylum seekers , most of the refuges havent even been registered or had the opportunity to seek asylum , they are just in the different countries . And its not only refuges from syria that sweden gets , its from all over the world . So the number is not really correct .
And I guess I formed it wrong or you misunderstood . Im not saying Sweden is the only country who is doing something , other countries are helping out . But from the size of sweden we are doing way too much and its fucking up sweden
Greece had 3000 daily arrivals a day . How are they supposed to deal with this ?
Im not gonna trust that Libya number , Libya isnt really even a country anymore its torn from a civil war and half the country is on the run itself
List of Muslim majority countries
https://nosharia.wordpress.com/list-of-muslim-majority-countries-with-sectstategovernment/
Why are not these countries taking in all the refuges ? Why are fellow muslim / arabic countries not taking in like minded people on the run ?
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Sweden's and whole Europe's infrastracture is declining because capitalists dont want to pay taxes. Immigrants and refugees are scapegoats. Immigrants and refuges dont want to come in Europe they want to stay at home. However we fuck up their countries with wars and planted corrupted governments that favour multinational corporations. We are responsible for this shitstorm and we should take rensponsibility. We should either stop Germany, US, France, UK and the whole NATO invading countries for capitalists' interests or accept anyone in our societies.
In Greece the situation is hell. There are no money or infrastructure to treat the refugees even for a few days until they continue their journey north. The whole thing is on the backs of volunteers from whole Europe and locals. EU is only giving money to make hot spots. This is the name of centers that will verify the identity of people to see who can seek asylum and who cant. This is bullshit as people are dying just to get to the hotspots and because there are people who dont have war in their countries but they are fleeing from planted dictatorships and extreme poverty.
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Monty, I agree with you that numbers are higher now, but 200k a year to Sweden alone is an exaggeration.
Scroll right on the big picture and you'll see which countries took in how many refugees. You'll see that most of the Syrian refugees either stay in Syria or in neighbouring countries, which are all muslim. Again, who can blame those who have the means to get to Europe? Same goes for Iraqis or Afghanis.
I also don't believe that the refugees will be allowed to stay forever. The economic migrants definitely won't. But as I said, the West is simply reaping what it sowed.
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There's a rape epidemic in Sweden directly connected to the refugee crisis. These immigrants don't have ethics, you can't just teach them Swedish and suddenly adapt to European culture. No doubt the gov't knew this would happen.
Start having kids again Europe! Why are Euros so afraid to have 8-9 children and a big family? You love your culture so much right?
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This theme was talked a lot on facebook and made me see the true colors of many people, people can be so selfish and hatefull, even when talking about strangers. There's a hate conspiracy against the refugees, lots of clips of people rioting, destroying things, rejecting food, but its all manipulated to create fear in the society, mainly by extreme right wing groups. I'm pro-refugee. People tend to forget we are talking about people, human beings like us and not about numbers. Frontiers are just an ilusion, and people value is equal for anyone from anywere. Nobody should be blamed for beying born in a shithole country. I just cant judge someone for searching a safe place with good conditions to live, and no Monty, other islamic countrys arent a good option. Sure there are some bad people coming in, but bad people exist everywere and we just cant negate help to them and forget they are people, and there's a lot of good people in there too (the biggest part). Their culture can be outdated and barbaric at times but education is the key, those children will be the tomorrow europeans, so teach them how to be civilized. I think they can be helpfull to europe if we knew how to deal with this crisis.
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Alan, I tried looking at your map, but I got to Benghazi, and I lost my fucking shit.
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Europe will eventually be totally Islamic. People just aren't having babies anymore, and Islams outfuck everyone on earth. You can't expect to keep your country by having 1.2 babies per 2 people.. it's going to happen so start breeding or stop complaining.
There's a rape epidemic in Sweden directly connected to the refugee crisis. These immigrants don't have ethics, you can't just teach them Swedish and suddenly adapt to European culture. No doubt the gov't knew this would happen.
Start having kids again Europe! Why are Euros so afraid to have 8-9 children and a big family? You love your culture so much right?
It's insane how Islamophobic and racist your two posts are. European far right groups literally have the exact same claims.
Assumption 1) Islam is taking over Europe: I live in Germany. Germany is among the countries with the highest numbers of Muslims in the EU (similar to the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Sweden). All these countries have had sizable Muslim communities for several decades now. They're also among the richest countries in Europe. Muslim immigration is a) nothing new and b) nothing these societies couldn't handle.
However, what we're talking about here is that Muslims make up about 5-10% of the whole country. Germany, for example, takes up about 1 million refugees this year. If all of them were Muslims (and they're not), that'd add an additional 1.5% to the Muslim population. Not exactly a takeover, is it?
Besides, Muslim communities are concentrated in urban areas. They're virtually non-existent in all of East Germany and rural areas even in the West. And, believe it or not, even Berlin or Frankfurt haven't introduced the Sharia. Because that's your claim, right? Muslim immigration = Europe becomes Islamist?
Even if birth rates are lower than 2, there's no sign that Germany (for example) will ever have a Muslim majority. There are zero influential political groups associated with Islam. Quite the opposite, sadly, Islamophobia is becoming stronger and more aggressive by the day.
And also, even though the majority of refugees are from Syria and Afghanistan, that totally doesn't mean they're Islamists. A lot of Syrian refugees aren't even Muslim. They're Kurdish, Yazidis, or even Christians. Let's not forget that they were socialized in a moderately Islamic state. Assad is a cynical and brutal dictator, but he isn't even Muslim and the state suppressed Islamic fundamentalism. And even those who are Muslim often fled, because they weren't ok with Islamic groups, such as Al-Nusra or ISIS. Those from Afghanistan often fled their country precisely because Taliban wanted to kill them for not being Muslim enough.
All in all, stating that Islam is (politically) taking over Europe is simply absurd. If it were an actual threat, I wouldn't ignore it. This is mainly right-wing paranoia, that's all.
Assumption 2) Refugees are rapists and criminals: This one's really popular among right-wing groups! It's so popular that the German police published crime rates stating that crime around asylum camps and shelters hasn't really increased compared to before. Furthermore, crime rates indicate that immigrants (as a general group) aren't more likely to be convicted. The police only publishes limited data, but the data we have doesn't indicate that crime has increased due to refugees.
What has increased though is the media coverage on crimes committed by refugees (and foreigners in general). Right-wing groups use every single local incident to warn against "criminal refugees" while ignoring the seriously concerning assaults ON refugees. People are beaten up on the streets for looking "different" and shelters are put on fire every week. A group of activists in my area (Dresden) has covered more than 30 violent incidents directed at refugees in the past 3 weeks.
I'm not sure about the situation in Sweden (but I'd be surprised if refugees were more violent)... I can only speak for Germany, because at least I know what I'm talking about here.
Assumption 3) Refugees will never be able to adapt to European culture: I'm teaching German to a group of Afghan, Iranian, and Syrian refugees right now. All of them only got here about 4 weeks ago and they already speak basic German. They're slowly finding their way around and start to understand the way things work here. They stated that the first few weeks have been tough for them, but they're understanding things little by little. All they have in common is that they learn German, start working, and live in peace. Some of them are really educated and some aren't. But they're all willing to earn a living in Germany. It won't be easy... in fact, it won't be easy at all... but it's there's a point in giving them an even harder time. That's just my personal experience and I'm sure there's also other cases. But it's still not like refugees are the mess racists make them to be. Not by a long shot.
What it all comes down to is that, in my opinion, this is less a refugee crisis than a right-wing crisis. As said, there's been an unfortunate racist backlash in recent months. Society is more polarized than ever. All this has little to do with the actual refugees that are coming to Europe/Germany. It's rather about the ideas people have of them. Fear of competition have brough out the worst (i.e., racist and nationalist) in people. It's really, really sad, especially here in Dresden, where PEGIDA ("Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the Occident"... no shit!) brings ten thousands to the street every Monday. That's just one example of a right-wing Islamophobic movement. More exist all over Europe.
And you Tracer, spread the same bullshit here on Slap. Next time, make your homework first. Have you ever been here at all? It sounds like you don't know shit about European life and politics. Just online rumors. Not cool and edgy at all.
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Right wing propaganda is just a decoy from the real problem. Which is that the rich are fucking the whole world and that trickle down economics are a horrible lie that work for a minority of people.
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I'm a social worker specialized in working with asylum seekers and refugees, so I'm confronted with the topic every damn day. And I'm a refugee myself (Alan, you are too, right?). I lived in a camp too. This does not prove that I'm right. But I take it very personal Tracer what you're saying. And I'll punch your teeth out of your face if I ever see you in person.
This is the fourth wave of refugee since 1945 in Germany. First the persons from Prussia and every other country that is considered eastern europe now. They were Germans, who flew to the west and were hated by the people who always lived there. Then we had the refugees from GDR, that had a hard time being accepted. Then we all the persons so from the communist countries, who had German roots and could not leave the country until late eighties. They have not been accepted as Germans for a long time. With the wars in ex-jugoslavia we had many refugees from this area. Many got send back after the war. Now it's the same. People have never been migrant friendly here, even if it's they're own people. It's insane. Blond, blue eyed, German, christian refugees had the same problems with integration, cause the society is just paranoid. If the persons now wouldn't be muslims we would still have the hate. My point is ... I don't have a point. Fuck you tracer.
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Anyone who would resort to violence over WORDS is very weak-minded. Parents shoulda taught you noises you make with your mouth are never worth fighting over
Europe will be Islamic someday, I didn't say it in a bad way you sensitive retards.
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Tracer you are a fucking idiot, go play in traffic please!!
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Anyone who would resort to violence over WORDS is very weak-minded. Parents shoulda taught you noises you make with your mouth are never worth fighting over
Europe will be Islamic someday, I didn't say it in a bad way you sensitive retards.
It's an incredibly sensitive debate, you dumb fuck. What did you expect?
Of course you insulted Muslim refugees. If you fail to understand that, you didn't get the whole debate and its different camps. Just as a little reminder:
There's a rape epidemic in Sweden directly connected to the refugee crisis. These immigrants don't have ethics, you can't just teach them Swedish and suddenly adapt to European culture. No doubt the gov't knew this would happen.
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Pointing out the truth isn't being insulting or racist. It's not called a "crisis" because the refugees are bringing flowers and plans to build houses for their families.. It's a problem when they kidnap innocent people, rob and gang rape young girls to death. Canada takes more % of immigrants than anyone, but they are smart about it and don't let 200 000 Syrians in per year, that is recipe for disaster, as anyone with common sense knows.
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Matze, I'm not, but I know why you think I am, hahaha!
Anyway, why don't you guys have Tracer on ignore? Everyone knows he's a troll...
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Matze, I'm not, but I know why you think I am, hahaha!
Anyway, why don't you guys have Tracer on ignore? Everyone knows he's a troll...
so ironic, that's how europe is dealing with the crisis!
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Ill try to adress as many of you guys possible here
First of all tracer and tufty , if you cant add something interesting to this convo , then just dont post here at all . Tracer is just posting bullshit , and tufty is on some kind of its the USA and capitalists fult , but the EUs fult , but still its the EUs fult .
First SKATAN . Ill post up some quotes
true colors of many people, people can be so selfish and hateful, even when talking about strangers.
people tend to forget we are talking about people, human beings like us and not about numbers
Heres the truth , people dont give a shit . If your mother or father , brother , girlfriend was a refuge . You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
I mean these are human beings . small children with no mom or dad . Surly you could take in 2 or 3 children ? even with a pretty bad job you could take them in and have friends and family help with food and baby sitting . In countries with good governments like Sweden denmark , norway you could technically adopt 3 kids , and get aid to take care of them . Id prob say 99% of people in these countries will not take in a family or 2 , or adopt any kids at all . Because deep down people dont give a shit
You think syria has the only refuges ? its been going on for ages , Theres alot of wars in Africa how many of those kids are getting taken care of ? how many of those are we going to take in ?
It is exactly about numbers , Sweden could take in all of the refuges of the world , just bring them all over . And in less then 2 months sweden would be a refuge country , it would be bankrupt and a shit country . I mean the main reason people want to come to sweden is cause its a good country . While we have complaints and we wish it could be better , it is all in all a good country . But the more and more people we take in its getting worse and worse . We dont have the resources , the jobs , the hospital spots , the education to even just take care of the swedes . how are we gonna take care of all the refuges ?
I used the example of a overfull glass before , think of it as a boat in the ocean instead then . 100 people in the water and you have space for 20 more on the boat , sure you could rescue all 100 of them , but the boat would sink and you will all die . now what do you do save the 20 ? or take on everybody ?
Alan
I also don't believe that the refugees will be allowed to stay forever. The economic migrants definitely won't. But as I said, the West is simply reaping what it sowed.
How do you know who is who of the refuges ? or even what country most of them come from . They dont have the EU passports with numbers , digital photo and fingerprints . Ive seen some of the photos in media where they have their IDs and passports . Its basicly a
typed piece of paper with a photo stapled on . A bigger question is how many of these are former soldiers ? radicals ? ISIS or Al Quaida ?
And people we are gonna send back , how much are we spending on them ? taking them in , shelter , medical care ,food , and then let them stay one or two years , and then send them back
AnotherHardDayAtTheOffi
Situation in sweden is abit the same , there is a rise in muslim population , But the left / liberal is saying its not that big . And then you have the right saying its over the top and that they all commit crimes . I would say the truth is abit between
Growing up in highschool we used to have muslim gangs of 10 people from the "tough" schools with bigger immigration students , go to other schools and rob the swedish kids . These swedish kids will no doubt be hating on immigrants . Now I mean its just one thing . We have also had honor killings . Educated muslim girls growing up in sweden , being killed by their fathers and brothers for becoming too swedish and getting jobs . or boyfriends they dont agree with . And we have had some gang rapes by immigrants
Now these are all isolated events , and ofcourse not all emigrants or muslims do stuff like this . Many people come over and respect the law and traditons in sweden . But its like the news and media . Nobody is reporting on how everything is fine . No media is reporting today no muslim killed anybody . Its always about the bad stuff people do . Our third biggest (maybe second now ) politcal party
in sweden right now is Anti refuge , anti immigration , and pretty anti Muslim . That says something about how swedes feel about this whole thing .
Matze , I dont envy your job at all , its hard as shit and prob just a shit rollercoaster on your emotions , keep your head up stay strong .
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Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.
Example:
You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.
And btw, Tufty is right, but you'd rather put the blame on the refugees, as if they're mindless drones, who are very sneakily dying by the thousands and spending their life savings so that the soft Europeans will take pity on the survivors and allow them to stay in their 5 star camps.
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Pointing out the truth isn't being insulting or racist. It's not called a "crisis" because the refugees are bringing flowers and plans to build houses for their families.. It's a problem when they kidnap innocent people, rob and gang rape young girls to death. Canada takes more % of immigrants than anyone, but they are smart about it and don't let 200 000 Syrians in per year, that is recipe for disaster, as anyone with common sense knows.
Haha, if you think that's the truth, you're racist. That's the thing about racists... they're not aware of their prejudice and paranoia. Just like stupid people... are they aware of their own stupidity? No, that's part of what being stupid means. And you see... with racists it's pretty much the same thing. Of course, they think they're right. Why would someone proclaim something they know is wrong?
Besides, nobody claims to be racist. That's why the phrase "I'm not a racist, but..." is so infamous.
PS: Fuck you.
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Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.
Example:
Expand Quote
You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.
Sure , you pay taxes for all of those things , but what do we do when theres not enough money ? . Biggest problem with taking all these refugees in are housing . We currently have a buss in sweden with 50 something refugese refusing to leave the buss that drove them to their temperary housing cause they dont feel its safe . The compaints was there was no wifi , no close shops , not in a big city and there might be wild life around like Moose . In a situation like this one could say if you really cared about these people let them move into your apartment since the government doesnt have the resources to put them else ware
Please give me a solution to taking in all these people ? higher taxes ? building more schools , more housing ? more hospitals ? create more jobs for teachers and doctors ? . We cant even do that when we have no refugees to help
If a lady gets shot in the street , 2 para medics bring her up to your house and say they need to treat her here and now . Do you refuse cause while you are for free health care you want your goverment to handle it , you pay them for it . Or do you let them treat her . I mean shes not gonna stay there for ever
If some refugese need a place to stay for awhile , maybe afew months . Do you let them ? I mean they need a place to stay and its not forever
Who are you guys blaming for the war ? was Assad set up as ruler of Syria by US or EU ? . Isnt the current war in syria and Iraq betwen 2 muslim sects ? the sunni and shia ? . Sweden is a neutral country , we had peace keeping missions in Afghanistan , We havent had anything to do with Syria or Iraq , In fact we didnt support the Iraq war , yet we take in refugees from all these countries
I know its known now that Bush and Blair set this whole thing up . I think Bush , blair and cheney should be in some war trail . But are you guys sure Iraq / Afghanistan were better off with the Taliban and Husein and his sons ?
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion . Im not trying to insult or call you guys names and shit . So lets try to keep it civil and have a calm discussion about this
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Monty Burns is an excellent example of someone who doesn't take the time to actually learn about and understand issues yet still feels justified in having strong opinions about them.
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Sweden's and whole Europe's infrastracture is declining because capitalists dont want to pay taxes. Immigrants and refugees are scapegoats. Immigrants and refuges dont want to come in Europe they want to stay at home.
This.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JtCcy6Tpdno
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Expand Quote
Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.
Example:
Expand Quote
You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.
Sure , you pay taxes for all of those things , but what do we do when theres not enough money ? . Biggest problem with taking all these refugees in are housing . We currently have a buss in sweden with 50 something refugese refusing to leave the buss that drove them to their temperary housing cause they dont feel its safe . The compaints was there was no wifi , no close shops , not in a big city and there might be wild life around like Moose . In a situation like this one could say if you really cared about these people let them move into your apartment since the government doesnt have the resources to put them else ware
Please give me a solution to taking in all these people ? higher taxes ? building more schools , more housing ? more hospitals ? create more jobs for teachers and doctors ? . We cant even do that when we have no refugees to help
If a lady gets shot in the street , 2 para medics bring her up to your house and say they need to treat her here and now . Do you refuse cause while you are for free health care you want your goverment to handle it , you pay them for it . Or do you let them treat her . I mean shes not gonna stay there for ever
If some refugese need a place to stay for awhile , maybe afew months . Do you let them ? I mean they need a place to stay and its not forever
Who are you guys blaming for the war ? was Assad set up as ruler of Syria by US or EU ? . Isnt the current war in syria and Iraq betwen 2 muslim sects ? the sunni and shia ? . Sweden is a neutral country , we had peace keeping missions in Afghanistan , We havent had anything to do with Syria or Iraq , In fact we didnt support the Iraq war , yet we take in refugees from all these countries
I know its known now that Bush and Blair set this whole thing up . I think Bush , blair and cheney should be in some war trail . But are you guys sure Iraq / Afghanistan were better off with the Taliban and Husein and his sons ?
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion . Im not trying to insult or call you guys names and shit . So lets try to keep it civil and have a calm discussion about this
Greece is famous for being in deep shit since 2009. Yet you know something that they dont say at your news? Greece has more billioners and richer billioners than those it had 6 years ago. My family lost 40% of their income during those years so that the billioners can keep on profiting. Kids at schools are hungry. Infrastructure is rotting. Desperate people are commiting suicide. Unemployment is at 27% while youth unemployment is at 50%. And now they let immigrants and refugees dieing in our shores and seas.
Everyone that says that there are no money should be ashamed. There are money in the hands of greedy sociopath assholes, who dont give a fuck about human life. Refugees, immigrants, locals have all right to work, housing and decent living.
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.
Example:
Expand Quote
You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.
Sure , you pay taxes for all of those things , but what do we do when theres not enough money ? . Biggest problem with taking all these refugees in are housing . We currently have a buss in sweden with 50 something refugese refusing to leave the buss that drove them to their temperary housing cause they dont feel its safe . The compaints was there was no wifi , no close shops , not in a big city and there might be wild life around like Moose . In a situation like this one could say if you really cared about these people let them move into your apartment since the government doesnt have the resources to put them else ware
Please give me a solution to taking in all these people ? higher taxes ? building more schools , more housing ? more hospitals ? create more jobs for teachers and doctors ? . We cant even do that when we have no refugees to help
If a lady gets shot in the street , 2 para medics bring her up to your house and say they need to treat her here and now . Do you refuse cause while you are for free health care you want your goverment to handle it , you pay them for it . Or do you let them treat her . I mean shes not gonna stay there for ever
If some refugese need a place to stay for awhile , maybe afew months . Do you let them ? I mean they need a place to stay and its not forever
Who are you guys blaming for the war ? was Assad set up as ruler of Syria by US or EU ? . Isnt the current war in syria and Iraq betwen 2 muslim sects ? the sunni and shia ? . Sweden is a neutral country , we had peace keeping missions in Afghanistan , We havent had anything to do with Syria or Iraq , In fact we didnt support the Iraq war , yet we take in refugees from all these countries
I know its known now that Bush and Blair set this whole thing up . I think Bush , blair and cheney should be in some war trail . But are you guys sure Iraq / Afghanistan were better off with the Taliban and Husein and his sons ?
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion . Im not trying to insult or call you guys names and shit . So lets try to keep it civil and have a calm discussion about this
Greece is famous for being in deep shit since 2009. Yet you know something that they dont say at your news? Greece has more billioners and richer billioners than those it had 6 years ago. My family lost 40% of their income during those years so that the billioners can keep on profiting. Kids at schools are hungry. Infrastructure is rotting. Desperate people are commiting suicide. Unemployment is at 27% while youth unemployment is at 50%. And now they let immigrants and refugees dieing in our shores and seas.
Everyone that says that there are no money should be ashamed. There are money in the hands of greedy sociopath assholes, who dont give a fuck about human life. Refugees, immigrants, locals have all right to work, housing and decent living.
Greeks don't work. They sit around, smoke and drink cold coffee all day. Can you blame them though? They have the entire world wanting a piece of them
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Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.
Example:
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You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.
Sure , you pay taxes for all of those things , but what do we do when theres not enough money ? . Biggest problem with taking all these refugees in are housing . We currently have a buss in sweden with 50 something refugese refusing to leave the buss that drove them to their temperary housing cause they dont feel its safe . The compaints was there was no wifi , no close shops , not in a big city and there might be wild life around like Moose . In a situation like this one could say if you really cared about these people let them move into your apartment since the government doesnt have the resources to put them else ware
Please give me a solution to taking in all these people ? higher taxes ? building more schools , more housing ? more hospitals ? create more jobs for teachers and doctors ? . We cant even do that when we have no refugees to help
If a lady gets shot in the street , 2 para medics bring her up to your house and say they need to treat her here and now . Do you refuse cause while you are for free health care you want your goverment to handle it , you pay them for it . Or do you let them treat her . I mean shes not gonna stay there for ever
If some refugese need a place to stay for awhile , maybe afew months . Do you let them ? I mean they need a place to stay and its not forever
Who are you guys blaming for the war ? was Assad set up as ruler of Syria by US or EU ? . Isnt the current war in syria and Iraq betwen 2 muslim sects ? the sunni and shia ? . Sweden is a neutral country , we had peace keeping missions in Afghanistan , We havent had anything to do with Syria or Iraq , In fact we didnt support the Iraq war , yet we take in refugees from all these countries
I know its known now that Bush and Blair set this whole thing up . I think Bush , blair and cheney should be in some war trail . But are you guys sure Iraq / Afghanistan were better off with the Taliban and Husein and his sons ?
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion . Im not trying to insult or call you guys names and shit . So lets try to keep it civil and have a calm discussion about this
Greece is famous for being in deep shit since 2009. Yet you know something that they dont say at your news? Greece has more billioners and richer billioners than those it had 6 years ago. My family lost 40% of their income during those years so that the billioners can keep on profiting. Kids at schools are hungry. Infrastructure is rotting. Desperate people are commiting suicide. Unemployment is at 27% while youth unemployment is at 50%. And now they let immigrants and refugees dieing in our shores and seas.
Everyone that says that there are no money should be ashamed. There are money in the hands of greedy sociopath assholes, who dont give a fuck about human life. Refugees, immigrants, locals have all right to work, housing and decent living.
I have a hard time following this post since nothing I said in this quote you posted has anything to do with greece ?
Are you suggesting you should take money from rich people just because they are rich ? what about the rich people who worked hard to become rich ? should we just take money from them cause they are successful ? I mean if they did something illegal , sure take their money , lock them up .
You are saying people dont have jobs , kids dont eat , people are taking their own lifes and the Infrastructure is rotting . And you want to take in refuges in the country ? If you cant take care of yourself dont take on more responsibility with trying to save others . Its only making your situation worse .
If you dont have jobs for the greeks what are you going to give the refugees ? if you dont have food for the greeks , what are you going to give the refugees ? if you dont have homes for the greeeks ? what are you gonna give to the refugees ?
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Its the same all over, but greece is the extreme. There are money. Money that are not spent because there arent many good investements that can multiply them. However there are people that can work and need to work but people with money wont invest because they cant multiply their money more efficiently. And since the model all over is leaning towards private investments instead of public-state ones we have to tolerate this bullshit.
You cant be very rich if you dont exploit others. One person can achieve more or less some maximum value. If he wants to produce more value he has to hire people and pay them less than the value they produce. So rich persons benefit by this simple principle. Yet in a system where private investements are fundamental for the economy they also benefit from legal tax evasion and other priviledges that average joes cant have, because investors are more valuable than them. You cant be "succesful" if you are not playing the game right, and to play the game right you have to be a sociopath asshole. I mean Steve Jobs would be steve jobs without the cheap inhuman labor in china and the kids working in the mines? Would bankers be succesful if they hessitated in destroying indebted countries?
Refugees are really suprised by the amount of solidarity they ve seen in Greece. They know the situation here and are amazed that the majority of greeks instead of being fascist assholes, help them. Of course there are some racist incidents. Most of them know that cant have a normal life here because even greeks cant, so greece is just a station before going north. However my country is member of NATO and West alliance and I recognize that this is our fault. Syria is just a country that is between Russia's and West's interest and thats why the war is happening there. I recognize my rensponsibility for this situation and I also recognize that there are money in the hands of rich assholes so I demand these for refugees and locals. Anyway these money are stolen from communities.
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I agree Monty I'm not from Sweden myself but we all have a responsibility as decent human beings to let in as many asylum seekers as we possibly can but we should not go over board to the point its detrimental to society and the asylum seekers themselves, that's just obviously not wise.
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This theme was talked a lot on facebook and made me see the true colors of many people, people can be so selfish and hatefull, even when talking about strangers. There's a hate conspiracy against the refugees, lots of clips of people rioting, destroying things, rejecting food, but its all manipulated to create fear in the society, mainly by extreme right wing groups. I'm pro-refugee. People tend to forget we are talking about people, human beings like us and not about numbers. Frontiers are just an ilusion, and people value is equal for anyone from anywere. Nobody should be blamed for beying born in a shithole country. I just cant judge someone for searching a safe place with good conditions to live, and no Monty, other islamic countrys arent a good option. Sure there are some bad people coming in, but bad people exist everywere and we just cant negate help to them and forget they are people, and there's a lot of good people in there too (the biggest part). Their culture can be outdated and barbaric at times but education is the key, those children will be the tomorrow europeans, so teach them how to be civilized. I think they can be helpfull to europe if we knew how to deal with this crisis.
So true. In Slovenia we had a public shaming blog for FB commenters and it worked into forcing people to rethink what they wrote.
You should hear my grandparents rant about refugees without any arguments, just some speculation etc.
Coworker's girlfriend spent a night as a volunteer and she came back in a state of shock about how poor these people are, just struggling to get to a decent life. I highly doubt these people will cause problems if they are given an opportunity to integrate. And I live in a big apartment building with economical migrants and they are really nice. It's just that a small percentage of idiots that ruin the image of whole communities.
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Monty, obviously all EU countries should take in as many refugees as they can. But your initial complaint was about Syria's neighbours not taking in refugees, and that is simply not true, except for Saudi Arabia. The problem is that other, richer EU countries aren't taking in nearly the same numbers of refugees as Sweden, the UK being the best example. And if there is enough money to bail out banks, you can be sure that there is enough money to house all these refugees for longer periods.
As for Sweden being neutral, it's not that simple. Yes, Sweden is one of the world leaders in humanitarian efforts. But looking at the big picture, Sweden is very much part of the Western system. Its neutrality is more or less nominal. Just look where Sweden is exporting weapons to. Not to mention that Swedish planes took part in the NATO bombings in Libya. Also, how much of its wealth depends on cheap labour overseas? All these things are connected.
Edit: Btw, I looked up the bus incident. It's only a group of 14 people (out of 60) who wouldn't leave the bus. 14 people! And I bet this was headline news in the tabloids, something like "Muslim Refugees Shit on Swedish Hospitality!" And besides, in the meantime they have left the bus and are settling in.
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Here's a Swede who actually makes some sense of things:
Where Are the Syrian Refugees? - Factpod #17 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=6&v=0_QrIapiNOw#)
Since this video about 100.000 more Syrians have fled into Europe. But in any case, it is obvious that at this rate, it will take centuries before Europeans even are at risk of becoming a minority. Surrounding countries take in way more refugees, in fact there is not one European country among the top 10 countries taking in refugees. As for Saudi Arabia, who gives a fuck what they do. Why even bother taking that moral desert into consideration? To be fair, they did throw a shitload of money at the problem, building camps in other countries to help refugees. The UN also stated that Saudi Arabia hosts about half a million Syrians, many of whom are thought to be refugees. All I'm saying is that what Saudia Arabia, Qatar, or the Emirates do should not inform our decisions in any way. If anything, it should prompt us to do otherwise.
Even if we were overrun by refugees, it shouldn't matter. We ought to do what is right, not what is convenient. But the simple fact is: we are not full, neither geographically nor monetarily. I hear many people object to spending money on refugees, because our governments are cutting on healthcare already, the elderly are being stood up, etcetera. But when you look at the numbers, none of these claims add up. My government, for example, spends about 7% of its budget on healthcare. The refugee crisis accounts for less than a quarter of one percent of government expenses, annually. So even with capitalists hoarding our hard earned money and keeping it from those who need and deserve it, we still are not anywhere near too full, or too poor to deal with this.
Besides the more indirect ways in which Europe is responsible for the situation these people are in, there is also a more direct one. Many refugees pay thousands of euro's to make it across. They don't get on an airplane, because we don't let most of them. The airlines don't let them, to be precise, so as not to incur fines for trafficking economic migrants. It should at least be acknowledged that these drownings happened as a result of EU policy.
It would make much more sense if refugees could apply for asylum before taking on the Mediterranean in an inflatable raft. This way, after it is granted (virtually every request from Syria is approved, in every European country, which goes the show how needless all these deaths are), they can just get on a plane. Because most Syrians aren't rich, but they're not dirt poor either. Just because they have a smart phone does not mean they are taking advantage or aren't deserving of help.
Yesterday there was an article on the front page, about an asylum seeker who had been arrested for making video of a 15-year old girl in the locker room of some swimming pool. This happened in some Belgian village, and we all know it would never have made the paper, let alone the front page, if it weren't an immigrant who did it. I wouldn't even address people who are afraid of the foreign man coming to plunder his bumfuck town and kidnap their daughters, if they weren't serious about it. Believe me Monty, the percentage of raping Swedes is roughly that of raping Syrians. You are right, the media are mostly about the bad, and it's times like these that you can decide which newspaper is worth its salt.
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Saudi Arabia funds ISIS, which has caused this refugee problem.
As for Europe not taking as many refugees? It's mainly because the population doesn't care about other people anymore. So many ideas of looking after the other have failed, or have appeared to have failed and people are worn out by it.
Sovereignty, democracy and state control are on the decline all over the Europe, so why believe that more people are the answer.
Great debate BTW!
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for Tufty
You cant be very rich if you dont exploit others
I tried to find a old article , was something to be top 10% of the richest in the world , all you would need was basicly to have a normal pay in the European countries . If anybody could find the article let me know and post it . It would prove my point that you can be very rich and just be a normal person , not exploiting others .
Another question is what is very rich ? the two top richest persons Bill Gates and Carlos Slim have given away millions if not billions to charities and setting up foundations to help the world in environmental issues and food projects
You cant be "successful" if you are not playing the game right, and to play the game right you have to be a sociopath asshole. I mean Steve Jobs would be steve jobs without the cheap inhuman labor in china and the kids working in the mines?
Steve Jobs is a perfect example for me , it goes to show my example of that people dont give a shit about others . Everybody knows that materials for iphones come from Afghanistan and the Congo , we know Apples factories have suicide nets . We know cheap clothes come from sweat shops , but people wait in ques for days to get the newest over priced Iphone with almost no improvements
However my country is member of NATO and West alliance and I recognize that this is our fault. Syria is just a country that is between Russia's and West's interest and thats why the war is happening there. I recognize my responsibility for this situation and I also recognize that there are money in the hands of rich assholes so I demand these for refugees and locals. Anyway these money are stolen from communities.
Unless you voted for Greece to enter NATO you cant hold yourself responsible for that actions of NATO , heck even if you voted for it
You cant predict all the chooses they make . You are on some super weird white guilt trip mission there .
What money are you talking about ? money from rich business men ? If they didnt take this money from somebody in a illegal way , its their money to do what they want to do with it . How did they steal the money ? . I mean if they close a factory in greece to move it to Afghanistan , its their choice . Its not good for greece , or the population but if its nothing illegal . You cant just take money from rich people cause you think others need it more
For excitableboy
Even if we were overrun by refugees, it shouldn't matter. We ought to do what is right, not what is convenient
I kind think the reason the small countries in europe are good countries cause they are small countries . Look at every big country with 100 million people in them . Im not saying they are shit , but theres a reason countries like Belgium , Netherlands , Sweden , Denmark
Norway . Swizz and others are doing so well . They are small and manageable
Sweden should be a country that is leading in things like education , environmental issues and things like that . Not struggling to give children education and healthcare . You think if we bring in 4 million (4 million syrian refugese was a number on the map from Alans post refugee to Sweden any of those issues would be in the top concerns ?
If we are gonna do whats right then we should take in all refugees , a quick google gave that number to 60 million
My government, for example, spends about 7% of its budget on healthcare. The refugee crisis accounts for less than a quarter of one percent of government expenses, annually. So even with capitalists hoarding our hard earned money and keeping it from those who need and deserve it, we still are not anywhere near too full, or too poor to deal with this
So everything is perfect in Belgium then ? politicians are just lying that they cant deal with this ? google told me you have a unemployment rate of 8.7% right now . How is the healthcare ? how are the schools ? over worked ? under paid ?
And with the highlighted . Are you saying Capitalists are stealing tax payer money and pocketing it ? Private citizens are stealing it from the government and keeping it from schools and hospitals ?
asylum seeker who had been arrested for making video of a 15-year old girl in the locker room of some swimming pool. This happened in some Belgian village, and we all know it would never have made the paper, let alone the front page, if it weren't an immigrant who did it.
Belgium doesnt report on child abuse / pornography anymore ? . I dont trust the media from both points . Ive seen several instances where the media has made sure that the race and if they were immigrants or not was not reported .
Almost all media in sweden right now is on the "side " of the refugees , It was quite interesting to see that " Refuge" who lost his wife and 2 kids crossing with a boat . All media reported what a tragedy it was . and it caused outrage about how countries and smugglers abuse the refuges . Later it was broken that he was in fact a smuggler / trafficker , almost no papers ran with that story
John oliver ran with this story awhile ago , one of his points was that Europe is running out of population and we need the refugese .
Id rather have sweden reach a point where we need to bring in a work force , where we can offer homes , spots in education , hospital beds and so on , instead of being in a situation where we have too many people were we cant offer that
We did it before in the 60s I belive . Sweden needed people for factory work and so on . Lots of eastern Europeans came over , got homes , got work , got school . And there were no huge demonstrations or anything against it . Casue we needed them , they needed us and we had space for them
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Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.
Example:
Expand Quote
You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.
There are programs in Sweden to take in refugees and it's shitty to see that there is a need for people who can take in unaccompanied children...
http://www.thelocal.se/20150903/five-ways-to-help-refugees-if-you-live-in-sweden (http://www.thelocal.se/20150903/five-ways-to-help-refugees-if-you-live-in-sweden)
3. Offer a spare room
Yes we know Sweden's big cities have a housing crisis, but if you are in a position to offer a spare room to refugees - especially unaccompanied children - some local authorities have launched schemes designed to help facilitate this. Solna, north of Stockholm, for example says it is in desperate need of volunteer foster parents while G�tene in west Sweden has put out an appeal for families who are "open and curious" about other cultures to help provide support to vulnerable young asylum seekers, by offering them a room in a family home.
Contact your municipality to find out more about the situation in your area
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I cant believe there are people in the 21st century that fall for the PR scam that charity is....
I didnt vote for NATO and on the contrary I vote the only party in the greek parliament that is against the NATO and the EU. However since I was born I am used to a lifestyle that is based on exploiting the third world, and other countries. I am not the idiot in line for the new I phone or the idiot that would kill for the new Nikeys, but you cant escape it. Electronics, that is my profession, are only designed in EU and US and are made in China. Shoes and clothes are made in asian countries and I heard that even china's labour is too expensive for the suits so they go for even cheaper labor in Bagladesh for example. I take responsibility for this and as a working man I see refugees as allies. My country is a colony anyway just like theirs but with better quality of life.
I explained why the rich people's money are not their money. And of course I dont agree with a system that cant connect the needs of people with production and labour but can only cater the greedy assholes. However longterm it wont work for the greedy assholes either. They know that, thats why they attack the wages of people in Europe. They want to bring the factories back because China and Mexico buisiness classes emerged from the offshoring craze and now they straight compete the American - EU ones. However they wont bring them back until the wages become competitive with the cost of wages + cost of transportation + other costs due to non locality in China.
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For excitableboy
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Even if we were overrun by refugees, it shouldn't matter. We ought to do what is right, not what is convenient
I kind think the reason the small countries in europe are good countries cause they are small countries . Look at every big country with 100 million people in them . Im not saying they are shit , but theres a reason countries like Belgium , Netherlands , Sweden , Denmark
Norway . Swizz and others are doing so well . They are small and manageable
Sweden should be a country that is leading in things like education , environmental issues and things like that . Not struggling to give children education and healthcare . You think if we bring in 4 million (4 million syrian refugese was a number on the map from Alans post� refugee to Sweden any of those issues would be in the top concerns ?
If we are gonna do whats right then we should take in all refugees , a quick google gave that number to 60 million
� Expand Quote
My government, for example, spends about 7% of its budget on healthcare. The refugee crisis accounts for less than a quarter of one percent of government expenses, annually. So even with capitalists hoarding our hard earned money and keeping it from those who need and deserve it, we still are not anywhere near too full, or too poor to deal with this
So everything is perfect in Belgium then ? politicians are just lying that they cant deal with this ? google told me you have a unemployment rate of 8.7% right now .� How is the healthcare ? how are the schools ? over worked ? under paid ?
And with the highlighted� . Are you saying Capitalists are stealing tax payer money and pocketing it ? Private citizens are stealing it from the government and keeping it from schools and hospitals ?
Expand Quote
asylum seeker who had been arrested for making video of a 15-year old girl in the locker room of some swimming pool. This happened in some Belgian village, and we all know it would never have made the paper, let alone the front page, if it weren't an immigrant who did it.
Belgium doesnt report on child abuse / pornography anymore ? . I dont trust the media from both points . Ive seen several instances where the media has made sure that the race and if they were immigrants or not was not reported .
Almost all media in sweden right now is on the "side " of the refugees , It was quite interesting to see that " Refuge" who lost his wife and 2 kids crossing with a boat . All media reported what a tragedy it was . and it caused outrage about how countries and smugglers abuse the refuges . Later it was broken that he was in fact a smuggler / trafficker , almost no papers ran with that story
John oliver ran with this story awhile ago , one of his points was that Europe is running out of population and we need the refugese .
Id rather have sweden reach a point where we need to bring in a work force , where we can offer homes , spots in education , hospital beds and so on , instead of being in a situation where we have too many people were we cant offer that
We did it before in the 60s I belive . Sweden needed people for factory work and so on . Lots of eastern Europeans came over , got homes , got work , got school . And there were no huge demonstrations or anything against it . Casue we needed them , they needed us and we had space for them
Those countries you named are doing well for a variety of reasons, of which size and population are only one factor. The Norwegians drill, the Swiss bank, the Dutch provide a tax haven for even the most shady of companies. And Sweden is among the most comfortable places to live last I checked. It is true that Sweden takes in the most refugees per capita in Europe, but to say this is already eating away at the Swedes world renowned level of education is just a bit ridiculous. But it's true there is a tipping point somewhere of which we need to be mindful. And Sweden should be relieved by other countries indeed, UK being the most obvious candidate. Not sure what the 4 million figure proves, let alone the 60 million. No one said Sweden should take all refugees.
And I don't know exactly how Belgium is doing, as I don't live there either, but politicians there are notoriously inept. What they say they can or cannot handle indicates next to nothing. Of course you are right about the refugees posing a problem for them, I never said otherwise. They do for every country. All I'm saying is you are overstating it. Unemployment rates have sucked in about every country over the last few years. The bit of money that we now have to spend on refugees will not make that much of a dent, as I explained earlier. It's true that for Sweden, the refugee crisis accounts for about 4 percent of expenses, which is admittedly problematic. But in the longer run it may well help our economies. You know this too, because you just explained it with the story about the 60's.
The article I read was actually in a Dutch paper. Sure abuse gets reported, but not something minor like this, on the front page in a different country. It might have made a local paper at best.
About the highlighted. I just mentioned that in reply to Tufty, who is right in saying that there is plenty of money to go around for this refugee problem. It just isn't in the right hands. But even then, there still is enough of a tax buffer to deal with this. Sweden is the exception here, because they are almost biting off more than they can chew at the moment.
Edit: Forgot to address the smuggler. What exactly is your point here? Is that kid who drowned any less innocent because of his father being a smuggler (a profession which, again, ceases to exist the moment the EU amends its policies)? It's only right that his father's hustle is simply not as newsworthy as that picture.
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for Tufty
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You cant be very rich if you dont exploit others
I tried to find a old article , was something to be top 10% of the richest in the world , all you would need was basicly to have a normal pay in the European countries . If anybody could find the article let me know and post it . It would prove my point that you can be very rich and just be a normal person , not exploiting others .
I got you tufty.
http://www.globalrichlist.com/ (http://www.globalrichlist.com/)
I make 24,000 a year. Where I live well, I live frugally in Southern California. Top ramen and $900 dollar toyota truck aside, that still puts me in the top 2.5% of the world for income.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JtCcy6Tpdno (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JtCcy6Tpdno)
Ha!
I fully endorse making fun of everyone no matter what during whatever situation. Humor is rad. The whole social justice warrior thing is hilarious to me.
If you're reading this mid migration outta the middle east, migrate to California, let's skate!
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First of all thanks to Pabst for finding me that link , thanks dude
So Tufty
You cant be very rich if you dont exploit others
You cant be "successful" if you are not playing the game right, and to play the game right you have to be a sociopath asshole
http://www.globalrichlist.com/ (http://www.globalrichlist.com/)
I entered pretty much minimum wage in Sweden numbers , thats lower then what somebody at Burger King or McDonalds make in sweden and they still came in on top 3.5% of the world . Now you cant say top 3% or top 5% is not part of the richest on earth.
These are hard working , normal people who are maybe single parents , or just have a small apartment and is just living a normal life and you are calling them Sociopath assholes .
I cant believe there are people in the 21st century that fall for the PR scam that charity is....
I donate every month 10 euros to Médecins Sans Frontières and 10 euros to WWF . I do think my money does some good
I explained why the rich people's money are not their money. And of course I dont agree with a system that cant connect the needs of people with production and labor but can only cater the greedy assholes
Ok Im gonna need you to explain exactly how its not their money . Somebody deciding to move a factory to another country to make more money is not doing something illegal . You should check out what kind of webste you are on . A skateboarding one .
Where do u think your favorit companies gets their shoes and clothes made ? where does the wood come from ? where do the
wheels and trucks come from . Im kinda surprised you skate
Im starting to think you are communist ? you are saying people cant have their company where they want ? and you are saying government / people can just take the money of rich people just cause others need them more then rich people
You cant just take money from people cause you dont like what they do with it . There has to be some illegal action
I didnt vote for NATO and on the contrary I vote the only party in the Greek parliament that is against the NATO and the EU. However since I was born I am used to a lifestyle that is based on exploiting the third world,
I take responsibility for this and as a working man I see refugees as allies. My country is a colony anyway just like theirs but with better quality of life.
Dude you are on some next level white guilt here . You wanna take responsibility for things just by living in Europe . You werent even born / voted in some of these things . You still feel guilty for Romans / greek having slaves ? you feel responsibility for WW2 ? I mean Greece did participate in it . In that case I want to hold you personalty responsible for the deaths of all the Syrians who drowned trying to get to Greece . I mean they are trying to reach your country .
For excitableboy
Those countries you named are doing well for a variety of reasons, of which size and population are only one factor. The Norwegians drill, the Swiss bank, the Dutch provide a tax haven for even the most shady of companies. And Sweden is among the most comfortable places to live last I checked.
Actually thats 2 factors , not one ( cheap one , but funny ) Swiss has bank , Norway has oil and Sweden has comfort ? not sure what you mean . And Sweden is not a comfortable country , Its a cold country , we cant grow everything we want . Its thanks to Swedens good infrastructure and environmental programs that we can live good lifes , in heated houses
Its when countries are doing really good we have time and money to make it a good country . Look at the countries who have had many wars , countries who are poor , countries with very harsh climates / nature / living situations . 99% of them dont have amazing schools , most the people have to struggle to survive . Religion is super important , and they have very bad environmental programs .
All the scandinavian countries have time and money to work on these issues . Theres a reason why we work very hard on pollution , make sure nature and environmental issues are high on things to take care of . Why we value school / learning so much . Why instead of just trying to feed people we try to feed people the right things .
The things Im worries about are when at times right now in Sweden we dont have shelters enough for homeless people , how are we gonna do it when when we get lets say 20 000 refugese ? . Should we tell swedish citizens they have stay outside and freeze cause people from syria are taking theire spots
Not sure what the 4 million figure proves, let alone the 60 million. No one said Sweden should take all refugees.
Its just a example on yours and tuftys point that we have a moral responsibility to save everybody . Does that mean we should
wait until all countries should take responsibility or should we just save them ?
Picture the boat again , 100 people are drowning , you have to save them all , but you only have space for 20 . Do you save them all ?
do you take on 20 ? do you leave the rest 80 to drown ? do you tell them we have to wait for the next boat to save 20 ? while they are drowning ? How do you decide who to save ?
Unemployment rates have sucked in about every country over the last few years. The bit of money that we now have to spend on refugees will not make that much of a dent, as I explained earlier. It's true that for Sweden, the refugee crisis accounts for about 4 percent of expenses, which is admittedly problematic. But in the longer run it may well help our economies. You know this too, because you just explained it with the story about the 60's.
Yes we took them in when there was space for them . We dont have now . We have swedish people who dont have jobs now . adding people who dont speak swedish , dont have training , dont have homes wont solve the unemployment rate , it will only add to it .
Sure maybe one day we might need work force again , but its not right now .
The article I read was actually in a Dutch paper. Sure abuse gets reported, but not something minor like this, on the front page in a different country. It might have made a local paper at best.
Where do you live that child abuse / child pornography is minor ?
Edit: Forgot to address the smuggler. What exactly is your point here? Is that kid who drowned any less innocent because of his father being a smuggler (a profession which, again, ceases to exist the moment the EU amends its policies)? It's only right that his father's hustle is simply not as newsworthy as that picture
Yeah it was a example of how media (not all) is " Pro " refugee . They used this child as a example and used the father as a symbol for how humanit is failing . But infact there were 100s of kids washing up on the shore before this and nobody cared then . Its kinda like cecil the lion , Nobody gave a shit before a white dentist shot a lion with a name . and now when the story has died down nobody cares again . Or Kony 2012 .
Media used the kid and the father , and when it came out he was a trafficker most media didnt report on it
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You are allowed your minimal wage in Sweden only because the rest of the world is exploited. You can pretend like it doesn't concern you, but we are all culpable. And your analogy with WW2 doesn't really work, as the war isn't going right now, but the economic exploitation of the rest of the world is. Having said that, it is our duty to be antifascist precisely because of what happened. But we're getting off topic.
(And besides, no one was talking about the European lower classes, but about the mega rich. There is a difference. Also, legal =/= legitimate. Just because something's legal doesn't make it right. There are countless examples where something was legal, when in fact it was criminal.)
Here is another map that shows how many Syrian refugees there are in Syria and the neighbouring countries. This was one of your initial complaints, right? Only a fraction are coming to Europe.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS3_hFiWsAEUnWk.jpg:large
And yes, when 2000000000000000 Syrian refugees come to Sweden, all the Swedes will be forced to walk into the sea and drown to make room for the Syrians. So just vote for the far right to prevent this tragedy.
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Brilliant. The point is Sweden is rich and comfortable, in a broader sense of the word, as your rant confirms. I think we've established that your country is taking on too many refugees, in relation to other countries anyway. But the dilemma between either helping homeless Swedes or homeless refugees is a false one I believe. Never said that about the moral obligation, only that the tipping point is not near. Unemployment rates will probably peak for a while, maybe homelessness too. Not that shocking.
I was talking about newspapers, not child abuse. And you fail to explain how the father's business takes anything away from the tragedy. It only adds to it if you ask me. Hope that clears it up, because I'm done talking about Sweden. ;D
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Of course you are more rich than most Asians, Latin Americans, Africans (who are the vast majority of global population) when having the minimum wage in West. Are you that dumbass? However as Alan said yes you are benefiting from that because they are impoverished so that your multinationals at west can have access to cheap materials and labour offshore to give you affordable products that you can buy with your Swedish minimum wage that they give you in sweden. Because if they paid properly for these materials and labour they would have to pay you more to afford these.
Just compare your GDP per capita of your country with your wage and you have a conservative estimate on where you stand (because this takes into account even kids deserving these money as pocket money). For example in Greece the minimum wage gives you about 6000 euros which is unlivable and more than three times lower than the GDP per capita of 20000. I assure you nobody makes more than the GDP per capita here unless he owns a company or his skills are that valuable that a company pays him that much (this means that the company makes multiple times his wage from his work). I assure you the latter is rather rare.
You dont have to be a genius to understand that I am talking about company owners, investors, bankers, buisinessemen and professional politicians.
PS I am amazed that most people who defend capitalism dont have a clue how it works both locally and globally.
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the scary part is that a lot of ISIS are amongst the refugees to establish terrorist centers around Europe. real refugees don't have money to make this trip let alone expensive phones and daily withdrawls from the atm. smugglers aren't humanitarians. and ISIS are paying them to send their warriors. germany that's taking in 200'000 good luck.
anyway this conflict made me lose any respect for mainstream media and the west, sorry.
look how logic is completely absent from what's going on:
1. usa supports rebels in lybia, syria and iraq
2. out of these rebels ISIS assembles
3. ISIS starts fighting a war
4. people start fleeing from ISIS, not the government forces.
5. some of the people die fleeing
6. let;s take revenge on assad and syrian army.
fuck the US govt for constantly destabilizing the middle east world just to protect their economic interests/ allys and weakening their enemies. fuck saudi for obvious reasons.
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i am not even gonna start joining this conversation, i live in the south-eastern part of austria and the situation at our border is just ridiculous. theres thousands of refugees, not even closely enough infrastructure or helpers, let alone official staff. this whole crisis has been on everybodys mind here for some time, and of course the logical reaction was to just vote right wing again.
what i am actually trying to say is: maybe read something else than your standard newspaper. have a look if the numbers you read are actually proven. dont believe the populist hype. maybe visit a place where refugees actually live, you`ll see that its way different than how it is portrayed.
also: put tracer on ignore.
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the scary part is that a lot of ISIS are amongst the refugees to establish terrorist centers around Europe. real refugees don't have money to make this trip let alone expensive phones and daily withdrawls from the atm. smugglers are humanitarians. and ISIS are paying them to send their warriors. germany that's taking in 200'000 good luck.
On the contrary only middle class SYrians can afford the price of smugglers. Poor people are forced to stay there and join either ISIS (formerly supported by the West and now backlashed as muslim Nazi version) or assad forces (pro Russia) or rebels (supported by West). I have talked with some syrians that passed from my city which is major harbor, they dont see the reason in joining any of these factions so they flee as they ve lost most of their property and their home was reduced to rumble. Some fled early enough to save some of their belongings, but they dont have the right to work in Jordan, Lebanon or Turkey even if they are being welcome there so they flee in europe and hope for work permission.
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the scary part is that a lot of ISIS are amongst the refugees to establish terrorist centers around Europe. real refugees don't have money to make this trip let alone expensive phones and daily withdrawls from the atm. smugglers are humanitarians. and ISIS are paying them to send their warriors. germany that's taking in 200'000 good luck.
Do you really believe in that? I cant be a real refuge if i'm rich?! You really think this people are all terrorists?! Fear campaign is working i guess.
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http://www.ibtimes.com/charlie-hebdo-attack-prophet-muhammad-cartoons-may-have-caused-paris-magazine-1775898 (http://www.ibtimes.com/charlie-hebdo-attack-prophet-muhammad-cartoons-may-have-caused-paris-magazine-1775898)
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the scary part is that a lot of ISIS are amongst the refugees to establish terrorist centers around Europe. real refugees don't have money to make this trip let alone expensive phones and daily withdrawls from the atm. smugglers are humanitarians. and ISIS are paying them to send their warriors. germany that's taking in 200'000 good luck.
Do you really believe in that? I cant be a real refuge if i'm rich?! You really think this people are all terrorists?! Fear campaign is working i guess.
Every time someone talks about how A) Poor people don't have smart phones or B) That all Syrians are poor, they simply let you know that they don't know what they are talking about.
Live in a mudhut somewhere in rural Afghanistan? Ok. Still have a smart phone...
Not to forget the fact that tons of Syrians are really well educated.
Sure, the sheer number of refugees is a problem, but the fact that they have smart phones or aren't poor isn't a part of the problem.
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the scary part is that a lot of ISIS are amongst the refugees to establish terrorist centers around Europe. real refugees don't have money to make this trip let alone expensive phones and daily withdrawls from the atm. smugglers are humanitarians. and ISIS are paying them to send their warriors. germany that's taking in 200'000 good luck.
Do you really believe in that? I cant be a real refuge if i'm rich?! You really think this people are all terrorists?! Fear campaign is working i guess.
Live in a mudhut somewhere in rural Afghanistan? Ok. Still have a smart phone...
Not to forget the fact that tons of Syrians are really well educated.
Sure, the sheer number of refugees is a problem, but the fact that they have smart phones or aren't poor isn't a part of the problem.
I know people that went to Syrian schools all in English. Not about to say Europe is going to explode, it's basically a bunch of fear-mongering media stuff. People just looking to hate, if you hate England or Sweden just leave, you have a Euro passport (which ALL Canadians are all jealous of)
We can't even work in the USA without endless applications, go live your Euro lives and stop complaining
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Hearing someone complain that Sweden, with one of the highest standards of living in the world, is going to be ruined by refugees taking all the resources is kind of hilarious.
It's true that Sweden is taking in a disproportionate amount of refugees, which is something other countries should be helping out with. It's also true though that the reason Sweden and other European countries (really all countries) are experiencing rising unemployment is that a huge amount of the worlds wealth is currently sitting idle in the bank accounts of various large corporations and private individuals that don't want to invest in creating new economic activity because it doesn't offer a high enough return. They might not be breaking any laws doing this, but that's partly because they've designed the system in their favour. Again, it's a 'legal' system, but I don't think it's moral, nor is it a logical way to use our planet's resources.
There is another option between leaving all the refugees to starve at sea or letting them in and giving them Swedish people's jobs - that is to use the available resources to create jobs/infrastructure for everyone.
Monty, since you think it's immoral to take money from people who haven't committed a crime, I will also assume that you're totally against taxation. Again, this would be odd since you live in Sweden, a country with one of the highest tax rates.
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We don't have much higher tax rates than the US, its just that we benefit more from them here in Sweden.
We have the money and the securitysystem that allowes us to take the huge amount of refugees here, everyone might not fit in the bigger cities but there are smaller towns that have a lot of apts that need to be rented out.
What a lot of people here doesn't understand is that the refugees actually creates a lot of new jobs and the money it costs us now will be brought back in form of taxes ect.
refugees welcome, fuck racism
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There is another option between leaving all the refugees to starve at sea or letting them in and giving them Swedish people's jobs - that is to use the available resources to create jobs/infrastructure for everyone.
Monty, since you think it's immoral to take money from people who haven't committed a crime, I will also assume that you're totally against taxation. Again, this would be odd since you live in Sweden, a country with one of the highest tax rates.
Swedish unemployment rate is about 7,8 % now . Its been around 5-10 % since the 80s . Id like to hear your guys ideas how to create more jobs with added refugees to the 7.8 % . I find it strange that sweden cant create these jobs for the swedes , but when we get thousands of refugees we suddenly can create these jobs
And no Im not against tax , and I like it when the tax is high to be honest . Im not super into capitalism , I would say Im more of a socialist . I dont mind being taxed high since I know it goes to hospitals , schools , fixing roads and a bunch of other stuff .
What tufty and some others were talking about is not taxation , its stealing money from people .
The examples he has given so far are his definition of " Assholes " who decide to move factories or create jobs elswhere then greece
and this makes them evil and we have the right to take their money
Im curious who gets to decide whom we get to take money from aswell . You know it always ends well when you set up a system where 1 or more people get to decide money issues like this ,
And oldeath , just because you dont want 80 thousand or 200 thousands of syrians comeing to sweden , or france doesnt make you a racist .
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There is another option between leaving all the refugees to starve at sea or letting them in and giving them Swedish people's jobs - that is to use the available resources to create jobs/infrastructure for everyone.
Monty, since you think it's immoral to take money from people who haven't committed a crime, I will also assume that you're totally against taxation. Again, this would be odd since you live in Sweden, a country with one of the highest tax rates.
Swedish unemployment rate is about 7,8 % now . Its been around 5-10 % since the 80s . Id like to hear your guys ideas how to create more jobs with added refugees to the 7.8 % . I find it strange that sweden cant create these jobs for the swedes , but when we get thousands of refugees we suddenly can create these jobs
And no Im not against tax , and I like it when the tax is high to be honest . Im not super into capitalism , I would say Im more of a socialist . I dont mind being taxed high since I know it goes to hospitals , schools , fixing roads and a bunch of other stuff .
What tufty and some others were talking about is not taxation , its stealing money from people .
The examples he has given so far are his definition of " Assholes " who decide to move factories or create jobs elswhere then greece
and this makes them evil and we have the right to take their money
Im curious who gets to decide whom we get to take money from aswell . You know it always ends well when you set up a system where 1 or more people get to decide money issues like this ,
And oldeath , just because you dont want 80 thousand or 200 thousands of syrians comeing to sweden , or france doesnt make you a racist .
Since reading isn't your strong suit. I'll try it this way once more:
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Migrants and Refugees (HBO) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umqvYhb3wf4#)
The right you are talking about is a legal right, while Tufty and some others are talking about what is morally right. The fact is that immigration without fail boosts the economy. And everybody pretty much agrees that Sweden takes in too many, relatively.
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Yeah but lets not forget that the rich are far more likely to affect legislation in their favour than poor people. So the legality argument is straight ridiculous and this is the reason why legality is million miles away from morallity.
Also I dont think that immigrants are not wanted. I mean Europe is aging and if new workforce doesnt come the whole thing will fail. So why the fuss? Because right wings are in charge in Europe and their voters are not the most foreign-friendly persons. Also an immigrant that feels unwanted and has to fight hard in order to be equal with locals is more easily exploited, working underpaid and not complaining. Also having immigrants in your country is always a scapegoat in reserve every time your system fails and you dont want to take the blame and change it. Its no secret that germany alone needs several millions of new workforce because german population is aging, and someone needs to support it.
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Yeah but lets not forget that the rich are far more likely to affect legislation in their favour than poor people. So the legality argument is straight ridiculous and this is the reason why legality is million miles away from morallity.
It sure is ridiculous, was just clearing up the distinction for Monty.
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the scary part is that a lot of ISIS are amongst the refugees to establish terrorist centers around Europe. real refugees don't have money to make this trip let alone expensive phones and daily withdrawls from the atm. smugglers aren't humanitarians. and ISIS are paying them to send their warriors. germany that's taking in 200'000 good luck.
anyway this conflict made me lose any respect for mainstream media and the west, sorry.
look how logic is completely absent from what's going on:
1. usa supports rebels in lybia, syria and iraq
2. out of these rebels ISIS assembles
3. ISIS starts fighting a war
4. people start fleeing from ISIS, not the government forces.
5. some of the people die fleeing
6. let;s take revenge on assad and syrian army.
fuck the US govt for constantly destabilizing the middle east world just to protect their economic interests/ allys and weakening their enemies. fuck saudi for obvious reasons.
This is bullshit. German Intelligent Service just suggested yesterday that there's a total of 10, I repeat ten, suspects for Islamist activities among the 1,000,000 refugees who entered Germany. And we're talking about suspects here, not convicts.
Why is there so little terrorists among refugees? First of all, there's a lot of Germans who joined ISIS. And no, not just immigrants, a lot of them were actually raised as Christians. They can return to Germany whenever they want, because they have a German passport. If ISIS wants to smuggle people into Germany, they can just put them on a plane and fly them to Germany safely. There's no need for a dangerous journey across half of Europe by foot. However, and that's the second point, there is no evidence suggesting that ISIS is interesting in operations in Europe right now. They're called "Islamic State in Iraq and Syria" for a reason. Unlike Al-Qaida (for example), it hasn't ever been their objective to terrorize the West. Quite to the contrary, they've always wanted to establish a Caliphate in the Middle East. Thirdly, refugees in Europe are fleeing Islamist terror. Islamists for the large part stayed in the area and fight for one of the many groups right now. ISIS, for example, kills people fleeing their areas. I'm not sure you're aware of that, but ISIS is at war and they need soldiers pretty badly.
Everything you say is standard right-wing lies. Now you're gonna claim that I got all of this from Western media. And we all know that Western media is just spreading pro-refugee lies, right? However, I also work with refugees and have some first-hand experience. I haven't ever met (nor heard from anyone else who has) a refugee who was pro-Islamist, pro-ISIS, pro-Taliban or just a "conservative" Muslim in any way. What's your source by the way? Some right-wing conspiracy-theory website? Russia Today?
Your logic is deeply flawed though. While the US is indeed responsible for ISIS in some way, it's a completely different story. The US actually never supported Sunni groups (such as ISIS) in Iraq. To the contrary, they put Shiite politicians in power who in turn suppressed Sunnis. ISIS consists of a lot of formers Sunni generals under Saddam Hussein who went underground to found a new resistance group: ISIS. So while the US politics in the Middle East were incredibly short-sighted and biased, it wasn't a willful decision to assist in the creation of ISIS. The US also never supported Islamist groups in Iraq or Syria. They've supported the Free Syrian Army (FSA) since day one, but not too much, because they have some ties to Al-Nusra (which in turn is linked to Al-Qaida). If you have followed the war in Syria at all, you'd know that the FSA is not exactly "winning" that war. I mean nobody's really winning there, but the FSA is actually losing ground. Assad (backed by Russia and Iran) and ISIS (backed by the Gulf states) however, aren't doing too bad. All in all, say what you want about the US, but they're not exactly the strongest player in this conflict. I'm sure that's gonna mess with whatever conspiracy theory you believe in, but US influence around the globe has suffered A LOT in recent years. They're not controlling the world. Other countries have made their homework as well.
As for Syrians and their cellphones... I can't believe that's still an actual argument. Who said refugees are necessarily dirt poor? They're fleeing war and conflict. Syria wasn't a poor country before the war.
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Also, chances are they have old, second hand, and lower tier phones. Not like they all bought new 500 euro iphones. And it's the cheapest way to get something resembling a computer, and internet access.
But what if the Syrians start eating Swedish babies when the food runs out? WHAT THEN?!!! Are you going to give them your baby? I mean, since you love refugees so much.
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But what if the Syrians start eating Swedish babies when the food runs out? WHAT THEN?!!! Are you going to give them your baby? I mean, since you love refugees so much.
It's only logical...
Monty, could you please clarify what the difference is between the government "stealing" people's money to pay for social programs and regular old taxation? I guess there is a difference in degree between things like governments seizing private factories/industries and nationalizing them vs. taking 40% of someone's income but the principle is essentially the same.
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Ill try to answer as many as possible , if I miss someone just make a post with the question again .
Alan , if the syrians start eating swedish babies then you will have lost this discussion and I was right . On a positive note Swedish nature with its clean water and air , and the super healthy diets alot of swedish babies keep will keep the Syrians healthy
weedpop , Im not sure I understand your question , but Yes Im fine with a high tax since we have had it for many years and the money seems to be doing good things . School in Sweden up to university , med school . mechanic school , chef school are all free , we even get a monthly cash aid as a incentive to stay in school
We kinda have free healthcare , when people need meds , once you reach 100 euros you get the rest for free the whole year . people get the operations they need and get to see doctors quick . Im not saying its a perfect system , but it is really good
Infrastructure , new playgrounds new roads , safe buildings , new skateparks , sports programs and so on , we get alot for what we give in
Now government taking money is more of a situation like in south africa where the new president and ministers all the sudden have new cars and new homes worth millions while everything ells is going to shit
I guess weedpop my point is , governments cant be trusted with just taking money from rich people , You look at the US system with senators and lobbying . Heck even some swedish politicians have gotten in problem . Rich pay more in taxes in Sweden , My argument with tufty is you cant just tell somebody they are not allowed to move the factory , or relocate something . I mean yes it would do
more good for sweden to keep it in sweden . But you cant just go and tell them no . And you cant just take somebody money they earned legally . They still pay taxes on it . Whats the incentive to start a project or company if you dont want to make money ?
I mean one could run a skate company to just break even , but then you would need a job to feed yourself and your family . Now if you want to expand and maybe not work a second job . maybe make more boards , expand business and hire more people you need to make a profit . But if theres a risk that if any tradigy like a refuge crisis the government can just take your money cause you morally have too much money ? whats the point in starting any company ?
for excitableboy and tufty
You dont need to explain it again , I know you guys are talking from a moral stand point , you guys think moraly that the super rich should give the money to the needy
And yes Im am saying from a legal point of view . The thing is you guys are saying the moral stand point should win , and we should take the money from them , and Im saying no matter the morals , if they earned the money legaly , they should do what ever they want with it
What is morals and who gets to decide what morals we use ?
When Columbus reached america his morals and the church told them its moraly ok to kill the indians cause they were not christans .they had no souls
it was moraly ok to have slaves in america before it was decided you couldnt do that
Moraly should we all commit suicide ? We are using up the worlds resources , polluting the eath , driving animals into extinction . human numbers are getting way out of hand and we mostly kill each other . Heck we have even dropped nuclear bombs which have made areas unlivable . One could make a good case we should be wiped out for the good of the planet
On another note , the swedish PM was on Tv today saying the refuge situation is out of control in sweden and we cant handle it . We need help from the other countries . Lets see who stepps up . We are in the middle of this refugee crisis . with no end in sight and sweden has already lost control .
The goverment is saying we cant handle it , and this is the government that is supposed to find these people homes , food , money , schooling jobs . See my point ?
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for excitableboy and tufty
You dont need to explain it again , I know you guys are talking from a moral stand point , you guys think moraly that the super rich should give the money to the needy
And yes Im am saying from a legal point of view . The thing is you guys are saying the moral stand point should win , and we should take the money from them , and Im saying no matter the morals , if they earned the money legaly , they should do what ever they want with it
What is morals and who gets to decide what morals we use ?
When Columbus reached america his morals and the church told them its moraly ok to kill the indians cause they were not christans .they had no souls
it was moraly ok to have slaves in america before it was decided you couldnt do that
Moraly should we all commit suicide ? We are using up the worlds resources , polluting the eath , driving animals into extinction . human numbers are getting way out of hand and we mostly kill each other . Heck we have even dropped nuclear bombs which have made areas unlivable . One could make a good case we should be wiped out for the good of the planet
On another note , the swedish PM was on Tv today saying the refuge situation is out of control in sweden and we cant handle it . We need help from the other countries . Lets see who stepps up . We are in the middle of this refugee crisis . with no end in sight and sweden has already lost control .
The goverment is saying we cant handle it , and this is the government that is supposed to find these people homes , food , money , schooling jobs . See my point ?
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I never argued for that. I will leave it to Tufty to explain that the market is and can be regulated in all kinds of ways ;D But my point is related to Tufty's. It simply makes economic sense to invest in immigrants, in addition to it being the right thing to do. I don't bother talking to people who need convincing of the latter, and I'm sure we're all on the same page there.
Look, a government which is failing to house its people, keep them safe and working or in a good school, at this moment, was failing to do it before this crisis broke out. Of course Sweden isn't failing, they are still doing magnificent all things considered. But, curiously, this is what you claim, while at the same time explaining how great mostly everything in Sweden is. Make up your mind. If you do think your country is in such dire straits, your beef isn't with immigrants invading your country, it is with the government (indeed, right now mostly the European government which has yet to do something about Sweden). Your situation is just temporary, and Sweden will go back to being the beautiful, comfortably cold, glowing example of multicultural coexistence for many years to come.
Now if the EU just implements a solution the has every country help according to its ability, we'll be fine. All the rest - talk of rape, ISIS, unemployment and so on, is fearmongering and/or ignorance.
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Grave of unknown kid in Lesvos Island.
The sign says "unknown little" and the number is the number of grave "118".
(http://i.imgur.com/WSjFdrs.jpg)
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weedpop , Im not sure I understand your question , but Yes Im fine with a high tax since we have had it for many years and the money seems to be doing good things . School in Sweden up to university , med school . mechanic school , chef school are all free , we even get a monthly cash aid as a incentive to stay in school
We kinda have free healthcare , when people need meds , once you reach 100 euros you get the rest for free the whole year . people get the operations they need and get to see doctors quick . Im not saying its a perfect system , but it is really good
Infrastructure , new playgrounds new roads , safe buildings , new skateparks , sports programs and so on , we get alot for what we give in
Now government taking money is more of a situation like in south africa where the new president and ministers all the sudden have new cars and new homes worth millions while everything ells is going to shit
My point is that you are contradicting yourself repeatedly in everything you say on this issue. You say that the government can't just take money away from rich people, yet you are ok with Sweden's tax system? You have a top tax bracket in which roughly 51% of individual income goes to the state - that means that, not only are they taking people's money, they are taking more of it depending on how well off they are!
There is no difference in principle between taxation and some kind of fine or penalty, except for that fact that fines are handed out based on an assumption of guilt, whereas taxes are supposed to fulfill the positive obligation that each individual has to their country and to the public good. Progressive taxation is nothing but an extra tax (or penalty) placed on someone for having more money. One of the main reasons that your country has such a high standard of living - and thus is able to absorb a disproportionate number of refugees without everything going to shit, as you claim will happen - is because Swedes have collectively decided, based on MORAL PRINCIPLES, that things like progressive taxation are good, and even necessary to guarantee the welfare of the nation as a whole.
The thing that Tufty and others were getting at is that the refugee crisis, as well as a lot of Europe's other social problems, would be easier to deal with if people decided collectively to make the wealthy contribute more, and to pass laws to make it more difficult for them to accumulate huge sums of money and evade taxation. This would not be comparable to supposedly 'revolutionary' governments seizing factories or businesses for their own personal gain, it would just be a slight modification to the system that you already have, and which has been in place for years.
Again, as Tufty said, the fact that you happily tout the benefits of Sweden's great social programs while saying that it is immoral to take money from the rich just because they are rich shows how little you understand the system in which you live.
I guess weedpop my point is , governments cant be trusted with just taking money from rich people , You look at the US system with senators and lobbying . Heck even some swedish politicians have gotten in problem.
You are confusing campaign contributions to politicians from rich people with taxes paid by rich people to the state treasury; I hope I don't have to explain the distinction between these two things to you...
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How did this become all about Sweden? Noone gives a shit about Sweden, dynamite, or lingonberries.
Italy has been in crisis for a decade, Germany is desperate for youth, and you want to talk about Sweden who isn't even broke?
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the scary part is that a lot of ISIS are amongst the refugees to establish terrorist centers around Europe. real refugees don't have money to make this trip let alone expensive phones and daily withdrawls from the atm. smugglers are humanitarians. and ISIS are paying them to send their warriors. germany that's taking in 200'000 good luck.
Do you really believe in that? I cant be a real refuge if i'm rich?! You really think this people are all terrorists?! Fear campaign is working i guess.
Live in a mudhut somewhere in rural Afghanistan? Ok. Still have a smart phone...
Not to forget the fact that tons of Syrians are really well educated.
Sure, the sheer number of refugees is a problem, but the fact that they have smart phones or aren't poor isn't a part of the problem.
We can't even work in the USA without endless applications, go live your Euro lives and stop complaining
Last thing first: Trying being an Euro that wants to work in the US. Go eat a beavertail or poutine or some shit before you complain about your ability to travel/work in the US...
While I know you are Tracer, you have a point to a degree, however I don't agree with you. I have 3 friends who have studied in Syria up until fairly recently >5 years.
There are dangers with this massive refugee thing, one of them is simply that most refugee centers in Euro are so over crowded. No Euro country is set up for this stuff.
The majority do have a completely different culture and religion than most Euros; This can cause conflict now and in the future.
Does IS/Daesh have "infiltrators" in among the refugees? You bet. I have no sources for this, but IS isn't a bunch of dumbasses. This is also dangerous if these assholes decide to act on it. Russian airline that went down in Egypt might have been an IS terrorist attack..
There is a huge line between being a racist ignorant asshole and not being naive about it all.
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Here we go again
excitableboy
It simply makes economic sense to invest in immigrants, in addition to it being the right thing to do. I don't bother talking to people who need convincing of the latter, and I'm sure we're all on the same page there.
Yes it makes total sense to make sure people we take in get education , jobs , healthcare . It makes no sense to just take them in
and not give them help . My point is we dont have the resources . The swedish government gave a statement yesterday that we cant deal with it . We have people sleeping in the streets . We have people sleeping on the floor in the Immigration office .
Look, a government which is failing to house its people, keep them safe and working or in a good school, at this moment, was failing to do it before this crisis broke out. Of course Sweden isn't failing, they are still doing magnificent all things considered. But, curiously, this is what you claim, while at the same time explaining how great mostly everything in Sweden is. Make up your mind. If you do think your country is in such dire straits, your beef isn't with immigrants invading your country
Swedens government was not failing before this crisis . The government is saying we cant handle this . They are not saying our healthcare or schools are failing . They are saying we are not equipped to handle this and we need help
Yes I think many things are great in sweden but that doesnt make it perfect . Kids are doing worse in school , doctors and nurses are over worked , police and fire department are complaining about budget . Right extremist are on the rise in the country . People are more and more voting for the extremist right . People are burning down refuge centers
The voting for the right wing party is a huge problem aswell , it went from a party that was ignored and ridiculed to the 2nd biggest party in sweden now . Alot of people vote for them cause they believe in the direction , and alot vote for them just to prove a point
I can have it both ways , Sweden is a country that has it better then alot of countries , but we still have problems and its getting worse
Im not sure why you think I cant have it both ways . Whats so difficult to understand about that we cant give the immigrants what they need and want ?
for weedpop
My point is that you are contradicting yourself repeatedly in everything you say on this issue. You say that the government can't just take money away from rich people, yet you are ok with Sweden's tax system? You have a top tax bracket in which roughly 51% of individual income goes to the state - that means that, not only are they taking people's money, they are taking more of it depending on how well off they are!
The tax system is one we have all agreed on , it goes to important things .
You are missunderstanding me . What Im saying is you cant have the government first tax you and then take even more money just because you are rich .
Ill give you a example , Mike has a factory he pays 40% tax , He has paid what he owes . The government cant come to his office and say Mike You payed your tax , but you are rich and we have a refuge crisis so we are taking 80% of your money after tax
This is was tufty and excitableboy or maybe just tufty was suggesting . That rich people should just have their money taken from them cause other people need it more
that means that, not only are they taking people's money, they are taking more of it depending on how well off they are!
Yes , they are taking our money , but they are giving us things back for it . If you go to the shop and buy a liter of milk , yeah they take your money but you get milk for it . I see no problem with The rich getting taxed more , cause they have more . But theres a difference between first taxing them and then taking money from them after cause somebody decides they need it more
One of the main reasons that your country has such a high standard of living - and thus is able to absorb a disproportionate number of refugees without everything going to shit, as you claim will happen - is because Swedes have collectively decided, based on MORAL PRINCIPLES, that things like progressive taxation are good, and even necessary to guarantee the welfare of the nation as a whole.
I agree , its no secret that sweden is a socialist country , or socialist / capitalist country . But we are not able to handle the refugees that you say we can handle , The EU is saying it , Swedens government is saying it , the swedish population is saying it . What more proof do you need ? talk to the refugees who are sleeping on floors , tents and some outside
Our morals are getting us in trouble here , we are trying to save everyone but its putting us in the shit
The thing that Tufty and others were getting at is that the refugee crisis, as well as a lot of Europe's other social problems, would be easier to deal with if people decided collectively to make the wealthy contribute more, and to pass laws to make it more difficult for them to accumulate huge sums of money and evade taxation
Who says the wealthy are not contributing besides tax ? Do you guys view all rich people as evil ? Im not saying I know how much
they donate or work at shelters or anythings ells and neither do you . You think all rich people are sitting on some throne made of skulls and dollar stacks ?
Look at bill gates , he donates almost all his money , sets up programs and think tanks for environment issues and for trying to end world hunger , He sponsors people and does alot more
But you have people like Steve jobs aswell , who just took and took and never gave
I can agree to tax people higher , but I dont agree to give them a cap on how much money they can have . I dont agree on the collectively deciding on who of the rich people we should take money from . Are normal people gonna tell " Mike " he has to give up his money cause we the people decided on it ?
Again, as Tufty said, the fact that you happily tout the benefits of Sweden's great social programs while saying that it is immoral to take money from the rich just because they are rich shows how little you understand the system in which you live.
Im not saying its immoral to tax rich people , Im saying you cant tax them and then take more money from them just because they are rich . We have agreed on money caps , You make X money , u get taxed Y money .
Im for taxes on money you earn cause that money goes to things you use , like roads and hospitals , school for your children .
You are confusing campaign contributions to politicians from rich people with taxes paid by rich people to the state treasury; I hope I don't have to explain the distinction between these two things to you...
I was just using it as a example how corrupt I think the US government is and how it differs from Swedens . It wasnt a example on taxes or the refugee situation
So yeah , if I missed something , sorry , debating ( if you can call it that ) 4 people here . Just post it again if I missed it
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You are naive as fuck and you dont have a clue about how rich people can avoid taxes and pay less than middle class. You dont have a clue about how the whole world works. You dont have a clue of what I am saying. And you are an idiot for defending the rich when there are kids drowning in the seas because the rich dont feel like paying the taxes they should because fuck the poor they are lazy scumbags. A war that is done for new markets for the rich in middle east and west domination.
Hey genius explain how the fuck our infrastructure and social state in Europe is declining since the 90s while we are producing much more than in the 90s? Maybe because what we produce goes in a few hands that dont get taxed for redistribution of wealth? Wealth accumulation that doesnt get taxxed properly ends up in corporatocracy as those with absurd wealth can bring down whole economies with their decisions. The rich are blackmailing the whole world for laws that favour them.
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It must be nice to have such a simplistic view of the world.
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Yes I think many things are great in sweden but that doesnt make it perfect . Kids are doing worse in school , doctors and nurses are over worked , police and fire department are complaining about budget . Right extremist are on the rise in the country . People are more and more voting for the extremist right . People are burning down refuge centers
And? To paraphrase TK, don't be mad at the refugees, be mad at the nigga negotiating yo deals, i.e. the system which perpetuates the crisis.
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You are naive as fuck and you dont have a clue about how rich people can avoid taxes and pay less than middle class. You dont have a clue about how the whole world works. You dont have a clue of what I am saying. And you are an idiot for defending the rich when there are kids drowning in the seas because the rich dont feel like paying the taxes they should because fuck the poor they are lazy scumbags. A war that is done for new markets for the rich in middle east and west domination.
Wow tufty , I thought we were having a nice calm discussion here . Is that how you debate things in Greece ? or is it just your style to start insulting people when they dont agree to you opinions ? Whats next threats of violence ?
Its funny that you think Im naive when you are blaming pretty much any problems on the evil rich people . Greece in the shit ? its thanks to the rich people . Conflicts in Iraq . rich people to blame , conflict in Syria , its those damn evil rich people again
Syrian conflict has nothing to do with countries politics , religious , political , or have to do with the resources of those countries , Its just those damn rich people again . Syrians dying drowning , its those evil rich people again .
Tufty , you are the naive one for thinking this world is a peaceful world , filled with people who give a rats ass about morals . Poor people are trying to make it through just like the rich are . Everybody is playing the game as well as they can
When was the last time we had some moral , peaceful utopia ? whats the longest the world has gone without wars ? If you look at history , the world is prob at the best we have ever had . Less wars , better healthcare , better schools . Things are improving
You are generalizing and saying all rich people are evil , just like somebody would say All muslim are terrorists
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Wow tufty , I thought we were having a nice calm discussion here . Is that how you debate things in Greece ? or is it just your style to start insulting people when they dont agree to you opinions ? Whats next threats of violence ?
Its funny that you think Im naive when you are blaming pretty much any problems on the evil rich people . Greece in the shit ? its thanks to the rich people . Conflicts in Iraq . rich people to blame , conflict in Syria , its those damn evil rich people again
Syrian conflict has nothing to do with countries politics , religious , political , or have to do with the resources of those countries , Its just those damn rich people again . Syrians dying drowning , its those evil rich people again .
I am talking like this when I feel like the person in front of me doesnt have a single connection with logic. You dont have to be a phd holder to grasp those simple facts. Its not maths. Its just that we are fed with lies and we cant comprehend that we were bullshited so much.
Are you illiterate or something?
Country politics = Foreign relations with other countries so that their buisinesses have better access to those countries' markets. Wars happen when negotiations fail and the markets are having to much potential to miss. Countries are always acting on the behalf of their buisinesses as we have capitalism.
Religion = Mechanism of propaganda so that people can fight for buisinessmen interests. Patriotism is another mechanism.
Resources= New market potentials for buisinessemen. Cheap materials.
Everything is happening for the fucking money. And the way the system works rich get the vast majority of those money and we have to be greatful for the bits that remain for us.
Tufty , you are the naive one for thinking this world is a peaceful world , filled with people who give a rats ass about morals . Poor people are trying to make it through just like the rich are . Everybody is playing the game as well as they can
When was the last time we had some moral , peaceful utopia ? whats the longest the world has gone without wars ? If you look at history , the world is prob at the best we have ever had . Less wars , better healthcare , better schools . Things are improving
You are generalizing and saying all rich people are evil , just like somebody would say All muslim are terrorists
Dude thats the definition of idiot. You are admitting that the game is immoral and full of sleazy people where the ones that are selfish and evil win. And then you contradict yourself by saying not all rich-succesful people are evil. Literally WHAT THE FUCK? I admit that the rich may be disillusioned that they do good or that charity can erase all the decisions that fuck up the planet and benefit their stupid enterprise but the bottom line is you cant win if you are not an asshole, even if you dont realise it. I mean sociopaths dont feel bad about themselves.
We were the best a few decades back we are in decline now. You know why? Because markets prevail against society for third time in history. This has happened another two times in history, I am not coming up with bullshit from my own mind like you do.
The world is a better place than it was many years back because there are some people pointing out what is wrong with the world and fighting for that. If all people accepted reality and became assholes we would be in the same shit forever. Progress comes from people opposing the establishment not from people that conform.
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Tufty man , you are so lost
The refugee crisis is happening now , in this world . Not your communist my little pony gum drop fantasy world . Its happening now. And your only solution to the crisis is , take money from the evil rich people
If we one day we have a perfect utopia where nobody is sick , poor , or hungry . has nothing to do with things right now
Are you illiterate or something?
illiterate
1.unable to read or write.
2. a person who is unable to read or write.
Wow tufty , more insults . That really is the weak mans way to argue . Im guessing if I was sitting next to you having this discussion you would be trying to fight me or something . And judging by the way you handle yourself I would expect you to try to sucker punch me
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Sorry Monty, but you are lost. You think we should deal with the symptoms rather than the source of the crisis. Most people in this thread know what's up, and it's been explained in pretty simple terms.
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Sorry Monty, but you are lost. You think we should deal with the symptoms rather than the source of the crisis. Most people in this thread know what's up, and it's been explained in pretty simple terms.
You know what , fair enough . Im gonna re read the whole thread and try to see more of where you guys are coming from . Ill post up maybe tomorrow with some questions for you guys . Seems most my posts here have been answering your questions , defending my stance
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monty burns is a genius, someone with some pull should inform world leaders about this thread
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excitableboy
Yes it makes total sense to make sure people we take in get education , jobs , healthcare . It makes no sense to just take them in
and not give them help . My point is we dont have the resources . The swedish government gave a statement yesterday that we cant deal with it . We have people sleeping in the streets . We have people sleeping on the floor in the Immigration office .
We already agreed on this. Twice.
Swedens government was not failing before this crisis . The government is saying we cant handle this . They are not saying our healthcare or schools are failing . They are saying we are not equipped to handle this and we need help
Exactly what I am saying. Sweden was indeed not failing, but you missed the point I was making in saying that. If indeed schols, to take an example, are already failing, this obviously can't possibly have anything to do with refugees. Because the budget and policies for education, or homeless shelters, or anything else you name, has long been decided upon and implemented. But never mind, again, we already agreed on Sweden taking in too many refugees and the EU's duty to do something about it. If it is okay with you perhaps we can now leave the highly current predicament of Sweden alone.
Right extremist are on the rise in the country . People are more and more voting for the extremist right . People are burning down refuge centers
They are in my country as well. It sucks, but believe it or not, it's rhetoric like yours that is a large part of the reason for this. Must I remind you it isn't the asylum seekers who are burning them down, it's a small minority of overreacting Swedes targeting innocent people. (Innocent not only because they don't mean to fuck with the glorious Swedish lifestyle, but because they in actual fact don't.)
I can have it both ways , Sweden is a country that has it better then alot of countries , but we still have problems and its getting worse
Im not sure why you think I cant have it both ways . Whats so difficult to understand about that we cant give the immigrants what they need and want ?
Again, we went over this. You do have it both ways!
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I also understand you are being challenged by multiple people and it's hard to keep track, but if you read a bit more carefully I think you'll find we don't have so much disagreement. I steered clear of a discussion about the market with you for this very reason, that it would only lead to more confusion. But it is necessary to consider the bigger picture and it isn't naive to suppose and consider a moral basis behind policy, because as someone said earlier, legality is entirely founded upon morals and values. That people themselves often don't give a fuck about morals is true of course (burning down refugee centers, for example). But we are talking politics here, which is meant to hold society together in spite of our beastly behaviors. To say a country like Sweden, or the Netherlands, or the UK cannot deal with this problem economically, is demonstrably false. Because those countries have no problem helping out the (super) rich when they are in trouble. I think this is in a nutshell what Tufty and others are getting at.
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I was gonna read through this again and ask some of you guys some questions and stuff but Im pretty much over it . Right now the media in Sweden have headlines like ( Headlines quoting government people , not sensational reporting )
Immigration office says theres no more room
Former Swe Foreign Minister says its chaos
Syrian Crisis is tearing apart government
9000 refuges a week coming to Sweden
Parts of the government Is asking people to take in refugees in their homes . I tried to make a example like that with Alan , who of the swedes care enough to take them into their house . Alan said something like thats a stupid example cause we pay the government to take care of them , but now its actually the government asking just that
Like I said before , The PM of sweden says we are over run , about 2x times over run and wants the EU to help out , but most countries say they are over run aswell . And alot of countries have a worse situation then sweden . There was a story about how we dont have even enough tents for the refugees . One minister told media that refugees in Germany shouldn't come here as we cant guaranty your safety
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You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.
So it might be the dumbest comment of them all , but its just what the Swedish government is suggesting
Its kinda like this crisis is already destroying the government ( which was weak already from the start , the 2014 elections brought on a very weak gov ) and will cause Sweden huge problems
Ill leave you with that , and Im done . Thanks for some good discussions in this thread , was interesting
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Now that this plane has been downed, things are going to start to develop differently...
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Good, we can drop this bullshit about Sweden. ::)
It's interesting how the news report mostly on the threat of jihad to Europe, but not much is said about Russia. They have about 30 million muslims living there, most all of them Sunni's like those Russia is bombing now in Syria. Up to 10,000 of them are estimated to have joined IS. It's too bad we don't have (m)any Russians on the forum. Russian media suggest the US is behind the plane's downing and it's all looking pretty familiar, like a cold war-type of a situation.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/08/magazine/the-displaced-introduction.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=span-ab-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/08/magazine/the-displaced-introduction.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=span-ab-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0)
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Sweden's security has been threatened so they've pull up the borders.
Looks like you might have been right monty
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/12/refugee-crisis-sweden-introduces-border-checks (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/12/refugee-crisis-sweden-introduces-border-checks)
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Maybe its because a far right party is a second party in Sweden and government tries to satisfy the fascist self-preservation insticts of the Swedish voter. Well its cheaper and easier than accepting people and rebuilding the swedish social state for everyone..
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austria is close to building a fence at its border, slovenia started building one, hungary already has. good times over here.
still nobody thinks it might be an interesting option to actually make living in the refugees homecountries safe and interesting again. just build a fence.
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Maybe its because a far right party is a second party in Sweden and government tries to satisfy the fascist self-preservation insticts of the Swedish voter. Well its cheaper and easier than accepting people and rebuilding the swedish social state for everyone..
Refugees have been mixed up with immgrants for a long time, and the far right have taken advantage of the situation. On a pracitical level from a western counties point of view, if they both are on your border it's hard to tell if there which is which.
Unfortunately the idea of state intervention is on slide all over the world.
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I am against the distinction between immigrants and refugees. Immigrants are fleeing economic war or the consequences of past wars while refugees a physical one that happens now. I am soon to be immigrant as Greece is destroyed without a physical war. I am forced to work here in jobs unrelated to what I studied for wages that dont allow me to live independently. I guess the situation in countries like bangladesh and afghanistan is worse.
I know how the far rights are taking advantage I saw it here with the rise of fascist Golden Dawn. The worst is not that they use the crisis to get an advantage but the fact that governments are implementing their agenda to satisfy the people that leave the governing party to vote the fascists. So even though fascists are not elected their ideas are governing the state.
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austria is close to building a fence at its border, slovenia started building one, hungary already has. good times over here.
still nobody thinks it might be an interesting option to actually make living in the refugees homecountries safe and interesting again. just build a fence.
hungary built a fence to close its border, while slovenia and austria just build small ones to guide all of the refugees to a single point of border control (this is simply crowd control, nothing else).
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Maybe its because a far right party is a second party in Sweden and government tries to satisfy the fascist self-preservation insticts of the Swedish voter. Well its cheaper and easier than accepting people and rebuilding the swedish social state for everyone..
I was gonna stay out of this until Paris happend
Most Swedish Parties including Far right , moderate right , socialist party , far left , christian party and smaller ones were for the closing of borders . The PM of Sweden went from "All can come" , to "None can come" . I personal hope he resigns
With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks .
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Maybe its because a far right party is a second party in Sweden and government tries to satisfy the fascist self-preservation insticts of the Swedish voter. Well its cheaper and easier than accepting people and rebuilding the swedish social state for everyone..
I was gonna stay out of this until Paris happend
Most Swedish Parties including Far right , moderate right , socialist party , far left , christian party and smaller ones were for the closing of borders . The PM of Sweden went from "All can come" , to "None can come" . I personal hope he resigns
With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks .
Fuck you. That's exactly what Sverigedemokraterna, PEGIDA, Front National, and other right-wing groups all over Europe will be claiming in the days to come.
I think the time has come where you should ask yourself who you're siding with. I'm not sure you're even aware how far right you're standing right now (based on what you've posted in this thread).
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Maybe its because a far right party is a second party in Sweden and government tries to satisfy the fascist self-preservation insticts of the Swedish voter. Well its cheaper and easier than accepting people and rebuilding the swedish social state for everyone..
I was gonna stay out of this until Paris happend
Most Swedish Parties including Far right , moderate right , socialist party , far left , christian party and smaller ones were for the closing of borders . The PM of Sweden went from "All can come" , to "None can come" . I personal hope he resigns
With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks .
Fuck you. That's exactly what Sverigedemokraterna, PEGIDA, Front National, and other right-wing groups all over Europe will be claiming in the days to come.
I think the time has come where you should ask yourself who you're siding with. I'm not sure you're even aware how far right you're standing right now (based on what you've posted in this thread).
Fair enough give me the options what sides I can choose . Right now Im on the side of who ever will take their fight against AQ , ISIS and any other terrorist groups who wage war on " The west " . So I guess Im on the coalitions side .
When was the last Nazi terror attack ? i really dont know but when it happens lets fight the Nazis again , but for now lets focus on the muslim terrorists
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Maybe its because a far right party is a second party in Sweden and government tries to satisfy the fascist self-preservation insticts of the Swedish voter. Well its cheaper and easier than accepting people and rebuilding the swedish social state for everyone..
I was gonna stay out of this until Paris happend
Most Swedish Parties including Far right , moderate right , socialist party , far left , christian party and smaller ones were for the closing of borders . The PM of Sweden went from "All can come" , to "None can come" . I personal hope he resigns
With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks .
Fuck you. That's exactly what Sverigedemokraterna, PEGIDA, Front National, and other right-wing groups all over Europe will be claiming in the days to come.
I think the time has come where you should ask yourself who you're siding with. I'm not sure you're even aware how far right you're standing right now (based on what you've posted in this thread).
Fair enough give me the options what sides I can choose . Right now Im on the side of who ever will take their fight against AQ , ISIS and any other terrorist groups who wage war on " The west " . So I guess Im on the coalitions side .
When was the last Nazi terror attack ? i really dont know but when it happens lets fight the Nazis again , but for now lets focus on the muslim terrorists
What are you even talking about? What does this have to do with THIS quote? What does fighting ISIS have to do with refusing refugees?
With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks . [/b]
The last Nazi attack? Do attacks on refugee shelters count? If not, remember Breivik?
Two wrongs don't make a right. You're acting like it does though. By the way, you've picked your side already. You're not with "who ever will take their fight against AQ , ISIS and any other terrorist groups who wage war on " The west "", you're simply with right-wing groups. Fuck you.
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Maybe its because a far right party is a second party in Sweden and government tries to satisfy the fascist self-preservation insticts of the Swedish voter. Well its cheaper and easier than accepting people and rebuilding the swedish social state for everyone..
I was gonna stay out of this until Paris happend
Most Swedish Parties including Far right , moderate right , socialist party , far left , christian party and smaller ones were for the closing of borders . The PM of Sweden went from "All can come" , to "None can come" . I personal hope he resigns
With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks .
Fuck you. That's exactly what Sverigedemokraterna, PEGIDA, Front National, and other right-wing groups all over Europe will be claiming in the days to come.
I think the time has come where you should ask yourself who you're siding with. I'm not sure you're even aware how far right you're standing right now (based on what you've posted in this thread).
Fair enough give me the options what sides I can choose . Right now Im on the side of who ever will take their fight against AQ , ISIS and any other terrorist groups who wage war on " The west " . So I guess Im on the coalitions side .
When was the last Nazi terror attack ? i really dont know but when it happens lets fight the Nazis again , but for now lets focus on the muslim terrorists
What are you even talking about? What does this have to do with THIS quote? What does fighting ISIS have to do with refusing refugees?
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With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks . [/b]
The last Nazi attack? Do attacks on refugee shelters count? If not, remember Breivik?
Two wrongs don't make a right. You're acting like it does though. By the way, you've picked your side already. You're not with "who ever will take their fight against AQ , ISIS and any other terrorist groups who wage war on " The west "", you're simply with right-wing groups. Fuck you.
Im not talking about refusing refugees , Im asking what kind of background checks , what kind of ID checks , what kind of personal property checks did we do on the Refugees we let in ? . You are a fool if you think accepting people in without any of this is a smart idea
These refuges syrian / afghan christians and muslims . How many of them are homophobes . how many of them are against feminists and women . How many follow their religion and want to behead children who want to go to school , stone adulterers . How many of them are ex taliban , ex ISIS ? you have no idea
We caught Breivik didnt we and he is in jail . we are actively fighting Nazi terrorism . You think extreme right has a free pass ?
Stop lumping me in with some "team" . This isnt some sport team , Im not with Real Madrid . I have left views and right views .
2 wrongs do make a wrong when you are dealing with psychopaths . Fucking religions are ruining this world . If you want to turn the other cheek thats your opinion but we have real problems with the extreme muslims , Turning the other cheek will get us killed
Stop making excuses for the extremists .
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Monty you argued with logic this guy just called you a right wing asshole. you won.
If you can't see that background checking and security checks are necessary than you are just a fucking prick.
I'm a fucking person and i could work out that if i was apart of a terrorist organisation it would be smart for me to embed a few of my guys with the 100s of thousands or refugees crossing borders, so how the fuck is a multi million dollar terrorist organisation not going to work that out.
I don't know what the situation is with the border crossers, maybe they are thoroughly checked and checked twice maybe they're not, these are questions that still need to be asked. ffs.
p.s ANOTHERHARDONDICKRIDER we are all in this together , just because you have felt you needed to pick a side when it comes to that whole 'left and right' thing doesn't mean everyone else does, some people just like to make their decisions based on the circumstances and situations placed in front of them.
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Maybe its because a far right party is �a second party in Sweden and government tries to satisfy the fascist self-preservation insticts of the Swedish voter. Well its cheaper and easier than accepting people and rebuilding the swedish social state for everyone.. �
I was gonna stay out of this until Paris happend
Most Swedish Parties including Far right , moderate right , socialist party , far left , christian party and smaller ones were for the closing of borders . The PM of Sweden went from "All can come" , to "None can come" . I personal hope he resigns
With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks .
Fuck you. That's exactly what Sverigedemokraterna, PEGIDA, Front National, and other right-wing groups all over Europe will be claiming in the days to come.
I think the time has come where you should ask yourself who you're siding with. I'm not sure you're even aware how far right you're standing right now (based on what you've posted in this thread).
Fair enough give me the options what sides I can choose . �Right now Im on the side of who ever will take their fight against AQ , ISIS and any other terrorist groups who wage war on " The west " . So I guess Im on the coalitions side .
When was the last Nazi terror attack ? i really dont know but when it happens lets fight the Nazis again , but for now lets focus on the muslim terrorists
What are you even talking about? What does this have to do with THIS quote? What does fighting ISIS have to do with refusing refugees?
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With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks . [/b]
The last Nazi attack? Do attacks on refugee shelters count? If not, remember Breivik?
Two wrongs don't make a right. You're acting like it does though. By the way, you've picked your side already. You're not with "who ever will take their fight against AQ , ISIS and any other terrorist groups who wage war on " The west "", �you're simply with right-wing groups. Fuck you.
Im not talking about refusing refugees , Im asking what kind of background checks , what kind of ID checks , what kind of personal property checks did we do on the� Refugees we let in� ? . You are a fool if you think accepting people in without any of this is a smart idea
These refuges �syrian / afghan �christians and muslims . How many of them are homophobes . how many of them are against feminists and women . How many follow their religion and want to behead children who want to go to school , stone adulterers . How many of them are ex taliban , ex ISIS ? �you have no idea
We caught Breivik didnt we and he is in jail . we are actively fighting Nazi terrorism . You think extreme right has a free pass ?
Stop lumping me in with some "team" �. This isnt some sport team , Im not with Real Madrid . I have left views and right views .
2 wrongs do make a wrong when you are dealing with psychopaths . Fucking religions are ruining this world . If you want to turn the other cheek thats your opinion but we have real problems with the extreme muslims , Turning the other cheek will get us killed
Stop making excuses for the extremists .
Where did I make an excuse for extremists? Now show it to me. My whole point is that you're equating refugees from the Middle East with Islamist extremists. However, Islamism is the Middle Eastern version of fascism. Refugees from Afghanistan, Syria, and Iraq are fleeing from Islamist terror. The vast majority of them (and everyone I've spoken to so far) is against ISIS, Taliban, and other extremist groups. You can be AGAINST Islamism and PRO refugees at the same time. There's... like... zero contradiction there.
So you're talking about doing background checks on refugees' stance on women and homosexuality? Stone adulterers? Is that your image of Muslims?
Well, to a certain extent, we are picking sides in politics. This is not an all-you-can-eat buffet where you can combine freely. Especially not in a debate as important and as heated as this one. Moreover, your point is very clear. There's nothing "left" in your whole argument. Alan and others have already pointed out to you that your whole point is 100% right-wing. You're just not aware of it yourself. Nobody goes out and admits they're racist. It's part of right-wing rhetoric. You're acting like there's no debate with different positions. But there is. And you're on the right wing.
PS: German police actually has an idea about that. There were 10 suspects for extremist activity among refugees last year. 10... Suspects... Numbers show that refugees are not more likely than Germans to commit crimes. In fact, refugees from the Middle East are underrepresented in crime statistics. The police published these numbers about a week ago. This article is from one of the most respected German newspapers and just came out yesterday (it's all in German though). I'm not bullshitting. I'm not naive either.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/fluechtlingskrise-bka-stellt-steigende-kriminalitaet-fest-vor-allem-von-rechts-a-1062661.html (http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/fluechtlingskrise-bka-stellt-steigende-kriminalitaet-fest-vor-allem-von-rechts-a-1062661.html)
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Monty you argued with logic this guy just called you a right wing asshole. you won.
If you can't see that background checking and security checks are necessary than you are just a fucking prick.
I'm a fucking person and i could work out that if i was apart of a terrorist organisation it would be smart for me to embed a few of my guys with the 100s of thousands or refugees crossing borders, so how the fuck is a multi million dollar terrorist organisation not going to work that out.
I don't know what the situation is with the border crossers, maybe they are thoroughly checked and checked twice maybe they're not, these are questions that still need to be asked. ffs.
p.s ANOTHERHARDONDICKRIDER we are all in this together , just because you have felt you needed to pick a side when it comes to that whole 'left and right' thing doesn't mean everyone else does, some people just like to make their decisions based on the circumstances and situations placed in front of them.
I never said I was againts background checks. Actually, everyone gets a background check when they're filing their asylum request.
You think a multi-million terrorist organisation is sending their guys on a dangerous, multi-week hike across Europe? There's hundreds of Europeans who joined ISIS. They have passports and all. They're free to enter any plane they want.
The whole point is that right-wing groups will use the Paris incident against refugees. Where yesterday's terrorists refugees? Is there any hint that they entered France together with other refugees? So why do you assume that letting in refugees means letting in terrorists?
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I agree that it's complicated, but I am also pretty sure that none of this would be happening without Western involvement in the ME, or at least with this kind of involvement.
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Monty
With paris now , I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks .
ANOTHERHARDDAY
"Fuck you. That's exactly what Sverigedemokraterna, PEGIDA, Front National, and other right-wing groups all over Europe will be claiming in the days to come.
I think the time has come where you should ask yourself who you're siding with. I'm not sure you're even aware how far right you're standing right now (based on what you've posted in this thread)"
why is this such a horrible question to ask? if you don't know the answer to the question why is it so wrong to come on a messageboard and ask this question?
Asking this question doesn't mean he is a right wing nazi that is trying to spread an agenda it means he is asking a valid fucking question he wants an answer too. you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.
AS MANY REFUGEES SHOULD BE LET IN AS THEY CAN. AND PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.
ANOTHERHARDDAY
"The whole point is that right-wing groups will use the Paris incident against refugees. Where yesterday's terrorists refugees? Is there any hint that they entered France together with other refugees? So why do you assume that letting in refugees means letting in terrorists?"
yeah i know.
i don't, i'd like to know if their potentially was any terrorists / ex terrorists , among refugees in these countries.
ANOTHERHARDDAY
"German police actually has an idea about that. There were 10 suspects for extremist activity among refugees last year. 10... Suspects... Numbers show that refugees are not more likely than Germans to commit crimes. In fact, refugees from the Middle East are underrepresented in crime statistics. The police published these numbers about a week ago. This article is from one of the most respected German newspapers and just came out yesterday (it's all in German though). I'm not bullshitting. I'm not naive either. "
dude why didn't you just say that to the original question...
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Terror can happen anywhere, but it is no coincidence it happened in France again. ISIS knows it will yield the best results in France, their goal of course being to polarise. They even announced they were sending terrorists among the refugees, and it doesn't even matter if it is true as long as it scares people. The banlieus of Paris have large area's that are more or less no-go. Kalashnikov ammo is easily found there as I understand it. Paris has neglected this problem for too long, even after Hebdo. For England and other countries it is also much easier to do, because they don't have nearly as many muslims. What's more is that many of the Parisian suburbs are inhabited by people who live in straight poverty. Plenty of misguided youth there who want to play their twisted version of Robin Hood. ISIS certainly don't need to send more radicals.
We have our own right-wing nutter here, Wilders, who tastefully tweeted within hours of yesterday's attacks that the PM was being naive and exposing the people to the dangers of refugees. We get the government we deserve so I suppose many people were happy to hear it. He's the biggest in the polls too. I might actually have to go out and vote this time.
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Apparently the politicians are looking into getting rid of the Schengen agreement now. So in one way the terrorists have won a battle. There dividing europe up slowly, refugees will have to apply to be let in the EU first rather than just travelling there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
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Monty you argued with logic this guy just called you a right wing asshole. you won.
If you can't see that background checking and security checks are necessary than you are just a fucking prick.
I'm a fucking person and i could work out that if i was apart of a terrorist organisation it would be smart for me to embed a few of my guys with the 100s of thousands or refugees crossing borders, so how the fuck is a multi million dollar terrorist organisation not going to work that out.
I don't know what the situation is with the border crossers, maybe they are thoroughly checked and checked twice maybe they're not, these are questions that still need to be asked. ffs.
p.s ANOTHERHARDONDICKRIDER we are all in this together , just because you have felt you needed to pick a side when it comes to that whole 'left and right' thing doesn't mean everyone else does, some people just like to make their decisions based on the circumstances and situations placed in front of them.
I never said I was againts background checks. Actually, everyone gets a background check when they're filing their asylum request.
You think a multi-million terrorist organisation is sending their guys on a dangerous, multi-week hike across Europe? There's hundreds of Europeans who joined ISIS. They have passports and all. They're free to enter any plane they want.
The whole point is that right-wing groups will use the Paris incident against refugees. Where yesterday's terrorists refugees? Is there any hint that they entered France together with other refugees? So why do you assume that letting in refugees means letting in terrorists?
Everybody gets a background check when they are filing for asylum , but not everybody is seeking asylum , Some are just moving between countries . And even if they check it , how long will it take ? how backed up is the system ? how accurate is the system ? who
are you checking with in Syria and Afghanistan ? its not as accurate system as in most Euro countries
This seems exactly what happened . Many media are reporting the people who did this went through Greece and came to Europe as refugees . You say why send them on a dangerous journey to Europe ? Dangerous ? they blew themselves up in a concert hall ? you think they are scared of boats ? they think they are on a holy mission with heaven if they die
From a Swedish standpoint I can say most Iran , Iraq , Afghans in Sweden were refugees from the start even if they are Swedish now . If some of the terrorists in Paris were from Paris . I would assume they were refugees at one point in time , or their parents aswell
Europe is a easy target . borders almost none existent . Its a great thing for humanity , but horrible for being attacked
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Apparently the politicians are looking into getting rid of the Schengen agreement now. So in one way the terrorists have won a battle. There dividing europe up slowly, refugees will have to apply to be let in the EU first rather than just travelling there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
They say it's because of the attacks, but I bet it's because of the refugees. A nice alibi to turn away those who are fleeing war.
I would assume they were refugees at one point in time , or their parents aswell
Or maybe even their grandparents. What's your point? Should we expel all "others" because a tiny percentage become terrorists?
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Monty you argued with logic this guy just called you a right wing asshole. you won.
If you can't see that background checking and security checks are necessary than you are just a fucking prick.
I'm a fucking person and i could work out that if i was apart of a terrorist organisation it would be smart for me to embed a few of my guys with the 100s of thousands or refugees crossing borders, so how the fuck is a multi million dollar terrorist organisation not going to work that out.
I don't know what the situation is with the border crossers, maybe they are thoroughly checked and checked twice maybe they're not, these are questions that still need to be asked. ffs.
p.s ANOTHERHARDONDICKRIDER we are all in this together , just because you have felt you needed to pick a side when it comes to that whole 'left and right' thing doesn't mean everyone else does, some people just like to make their decisions based on the circumstances and situations placed in front of them.
I never said I was againts background checks. Actually, everyone gets a background check when they're filing their asylum request.
You think a multi-million terrorist organisation is sending their guys on a dangerous, multi-week hike across Europe? There's hundreds of Europeans who joined ISIS. They have passports and all. They're free to enter any plane they want.
The whole point is that right-wing groups will use the Paris incident against refugees. Where yesterday's terrorists refugees? Is there any hint that they entered France together with other refugees? So why do you assume that letting in refugees means letting in terrorists?
Everybody gets a background check when they are filing for asylum , but not everybody is seeking asylum , Some are just moving between countries . And even if they check it , how long will it take ? how backed up is the system ? how accurate is the system ? who
are you checking with in Syria and Afghanistan ? its not as accurate system as in most Euro countries
This seems exactly what happened . Many media are reporting the people who did this went through Greece and came to Europe as refugees . You say why send them on a dangerous journey to Europe ? Dangerous ? they blew themselves up in a concert hall ? you think they are scared of boats ? they think they are on a holy mission with heaven if they die
From a Swedish standpoint I can say most Iran , Iraq , Afghans in Sweden were refugees from the start even if they are Swedish now . If some of the terrorists in Paris were from Paris . I would assume they were refugees at one point in time , or their parents aswell
Europe is a easy target . borders almost none existent . Its a great thing for humanity , but horrible for being attacked
First of all, I wanna apologize for calling you names yesterday. I was getting a little heated as a result of the attacks. I'm not sure about Sweden, but over here in Germany the debate is extremely controversial. Especially where I live (Dresden). When you posted in the "refugee" thread not even 24 hours after the Paris attacks and called for a stricter policy, I was getting really pissed. Because that's exactly what I'm afraid will be happening in Europe now. Sorry for that. I've always liked you as a poster. I still don't agree with you over the refugee debate, but I guess that's fair enough :)
As far as ISIS fighters among the refugees are concerned... my point was that ISIS will find a way to smuggle their guys into Europe no matter what. As said, a lot of them have EU passports and, unless there's a warrant on them, they can get into Europe the quickly, safely, and easily. Being hard on refugees probably won't change much in that respect. However, this will very likely affect refugees negatively and I'm against mixing up refugees, Muslims in general, and Islamists.
I'm not entirely sure what the status quo is, but I just read that 7 out of 8 terrorists were French/Belgian and the other had a fake Syrian passport that was placed strategically so that the authorities find it. We'll see what all that is about. Right now, there still seems to be a lot of confusion.
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Its all good dude . Most important is that even if we dont agree on things we can still have a discussion about things without calling names and violence . While I have some "right side" views , Im actually more to the left and most def not a nazi
I have a palestinian friend who voted for Fi ( feminist party ) and we talk / argue all the time over Israel and Palestine and many other issues , but we always end on a friendly note and have a beer over it
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Kind of rinsing the subject but still want to chime in.
ISIS is a well funded terrorist establishment and assumably already has cells operating in European countries (coaxing people into joining them amongst other things?). Given that their operations are well organised enough to be able to perform terrible acts like the one in Paris, I'm left somewhat confused about this claim of them traveling into Europe amidst the refugees. Can someone explain why such a risky way of transportation would be considered practical? If I understand correctly it isn't exactly a safe bet to get to your destination. They're not scared of dying on the way sure, but what would be the odds of finishing a designated task successfully?
Guess I'll be in the wrong to assume anything if that passport found on the scene is legit.
Monty:
"I kinda wanna know how many muslims were let into europe without background checks , or even luggage / backpack checks ."
Surely you don't think people committing these acts are traveling through borders with bundles of explosives in their backpacks? You're painting a very naive and caricature picture of a terrorist if you do.
"From a Swedish standpoint I can say most Iran , Iraq , Afghans in Sweden were refugees from the start even if they are Swedish now . If some of the terrorists in Paris were from Paris . I would assume they were refugees at one point in time , or their parents as well."
Your point being? Refugees (or their children) in general can eventually turn into terrorists? Can you give a ballpark estimate in numbers while you're at it?
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I would assume they could be carrying anything from documents , weapons , information , orders or messages . Given their importance in religion . It could just be the importance of having people from official ISIS coming to join the fight in Europe . Or people trying to escape ISIS and hide by refuges . Maybe cell leaders from Syria coming to Europe talking about how great everything is going over there .
I would imagine with government agencys like the NSA , delivering orders person to person is safer now
As for the other thing . I dont actually remember what my point was . I guess something along the lines of people who are born in country getting radicalized by other people in country . In this case , people escaping war , staying in another country and then turning against that country
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I would assume they could be carrying anything from documents , weapons , information , orders or messages . Given their importance in religion . It could just be the importance of having people from official ISIS coming to join the fight in Europe . Or people trying to escape ISIS and hide by refuges . Maybe cell leaders from Syria coming to Europe talking about how great everything is going over there .
I would imagine with government agencys like the NSA , delivering orders person to person is safer now
As for the other thing . I dont actually remember what my point was . I guess something along the lines of people who are born in country getting radicalized by other people in country . In this case , people escaping war , staying in another country and then turning against that country
You're point was moot so maybe that is why you forgot it. ISIS actually announced weeks ago that they would send terrorists among refugees. They only do that to make people fear refugees, the great unknown enemy, to fear in general. But it looks like those terrorists were very much French nationals. And it is not so likely their parents or grandparents were refugees at all. France invited most of its immigrants when they needed workers.
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Swedish paper had a article today that 100s of refugees are disappearedin Sweden . With the new boarder controls you are supposed to seek asylum and get processed ( fingerprints , IDs , background checks ) but they say they cant be everywhere and 100s have entered the country and just disappeared
Theres been reports of fake passports being used in sweden and with the paris attacks
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The countries involved in the Syrian/Iraq war should be the ones taking the major sum of the refugies... It's kinda fucked up when you see that Greece and Italy, two countries with alot of problems, also have to deal with the refugie crisis, when they weren't involved in those war. If the USA wouldn't stir every bowl of shit to prove their *failed* hegemonic force to the world, this whole situation wouldn't be where it's at now.
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Swedish paper had a article today that 100s of refugees are disappearedin Sweden . With the new boarder controls you are supposed to seek asylum and get processed ( fingerprints , IDs , background checks ) but they say they cant be everywhere and 100s have entered the country and just disappeared
Theres been reports of fake passports being used in sweden and with the paris attacks
Yes Sweden is a mess right now, we've established that. But what are you saying, those 100s must have IS connections? You're just not making much sense. It is likely that people are roaming illegally, as they may know people who already live here and the alternative is waiting it out in some gym for months on end. I don't know, that is just my speculation off the top of my head. Maybe you are right and they turn out to be terrorists, all. But for now it is absurd to suppose that.
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Swedish paper had a article today that 100s of refugees are disappearedin Sweden . With the new boarder controls you are supposed to seek asylum and get processed ( fingerprints , IDs , background checks ) but they say they cant be everywhere and 100s have entered the country and just disappeared
Theres been reports of fake passports being used in sweden and with the paris attacks
Well it was more a comment and update on the situation we were talking about before about not knowing who is coming into the country. Im not saying all are terrorist , but we should know who everybody is
As for the highlighted part , Yes we have , but I live there , and its valid to bring up 1 country , specialy if you live in that country . Cant just talk about all of europe . should be able to comment on 1 country without being told you know it .
And for another update , Swedish police / secret service just had a press conference they are looking for some special people who have made it across the border .
Think it was a day or 2 ago but 2 papers reported Belgium and Sweden had been hot spots for ISIS recruiting and about 200 people had left from Swe and Bel had left for syria . some are coming back to their origin countries . Really baffled how you can grow up in countries like these and turn extremist . We have so much freedom , free speech , free religion , great schools and healthcare . And still they grow up to hate us . wtf ...
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Swedish paper had a article today that 100s of refugees are disappearedin Sweden . With the new boarder controls you are supposed to seek asylum and get processed ( fingerprints , IDs , background checks ) but they say they cant be everywhere and 100s have entered the country and just disappeared
Theres been reports of fake passports being used in sweden and with the paris attacks
Well it was more a comment and update on the situation we were talking about before about not knowing who is coming into the country. Im not saying all are terrorist , but we should know who everybody is
As for the highlighted part , Yes we have , but I live there , and its valid to bring up 1 country , specialy if you live in that country . Cant just talk about all of europe . should be able to comment on 1 country without being told you know it .
And for another update , Swedish police / secret service just had a press conference they are looking for some special people who have made it across the border .
Think it was a day or 2 ago but 2 papers reported Belgium and Sweden had been hot spots for ISIS recruiting and about 200 people had left from Swe and Bel had left for syria . some are coming back to their origin countries . Really baffled how you can grow up in countries like these and turn extremist . We have so much freedom , free speech , free religion , great schools and healthcare . And still they grow up to hate us . wtf ...
When you realize the West is total bullshit its understandable. Understand the radicals think we're the real terrorists, which is kinda true.. Our women dress like they're for sale, we eat like fucking pigs and rape other countries for oil and other valuable commodities. Meanwhile our leaders are corrupt as hell, outsource work to slave conditions, steal their oil, kill innocent families, bomb villages and somehow they're the terrorists? Most of them don't even have shoes..
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Swedish paper had a article today that 100s of refugees are disappearedin Sweden . With the new boarder controls you are supposed to seek asylum and get processed ( fingerprints , IDs , background checks ) but they say they cant be everywhere and 100s have entered the country and just disappeared
Theres been reports of fake passports being used in sweden and with the paris attacks
Well it was more a comment and update on the situation we were talking about before about not knowing who is coming into the country. Im not saying all are terrorist , but we should know who everybody is
As for the highlighted part , Yes we have , but I live there , and its valid to bring up 1 country , specialy if you live in that country . Cant just talk about all of europe . should be able to comment on 1 country without being told you know it .
And for another update , Swedish police / secret service just had a press conference they are looking for some special people who have made it across the border .
Think it was a day or 2 ago but 2 papers reported Belgium and Sweden had been hot spots for ISIS recruiting and about 200 people had left from Swe and Bel had left for syria . some are coming back to their origin countries . Really baffled how you can grow up in countries like these and turn extremist . We have so much freedom , free speech , free religion , great schools and healthcare . And still they grow up to hate us . wtf ...
Guess that was a little bitchy of me. I guess I'm tired of hearing people saying they should close the borders, perpetuating some illusion that we'll be safe then, that we can be completely safe at all. I know that's not you so my bad.
I'm not sure about Sweden, unfortunately have never been there so I can't comment on it. Say fifteen years ago I would say I'm surprised about the Netherlands, but not anymore. To put it briefly, over that time our bland, toothless political climate has allowed nutty right wing populism to foster. Hell, lower class people are so jaded, I bet even the native, white people among them would love to radicalise if something came up to voice their sulky dissatisfaction about life in general. Come to think of it, all of the militant reactions I've read these last days suggest their creed is xenophobia, and they are starting some dumb white jihad all their own. As for Belgium, I take it you've never been to Bruxelles. The capital of Europe is a half slum.
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Swedish paper had a article today that 100s of refugees are disappearedin Sweden . With the new boarder controls you are supposed to seek asylum and get processed ( fingerprints , IDs , background checks ) but they say they cant be everywhere and 100s have entered the country and just disappeared
Theres been reports of fake passports being used in sweden and with the paris attacks
Well it was more a comment and update on the situation we were talking about before about not knowing who is coming into the country. Im not saying all are terrorist , but we should know who everybody is
As for the highlighted part , Yes we have , but I live there , and its valid to bring up 1 country , specialy if you live in that country . Cant just talk about all of europe . should be able to comment on 1 country without being told you know it .
And for another update , Swedish police / secret service just had a press conference they are looking for some special people who have made it across the border .
Think it was a day or 2 ago but 2 papers reported Belgium and Sweden had been hot spots for ISIS recruiting and about 200 people had left from Swe and Bel had left for syria . some are coming back to their origin countries . Really baffled how you can grow up in countries like these and turn extremist . We have so much freedom , free speech , free religion , great schools and healthcare . And still they grow up to hate us . wtf ...
'The western military leaders and politicians are raping our lands and killing our people, i know, how about we kill 150 kids from a trendy hipster neighbourhood in paris'
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The muslim Nazi version is killing our kids. Let's be the christian-atheist Nazi version and deprive refugees a peaceful life and let em rot at some concentration camps or drown in the sea or go back to war which is 1000000 times worse than the situation in Paris.
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The muslim Nazi version is killing our kids. Let's be the christian-atheist Nazi version and deprive refugees a peaceful life and let em rot at some concentration camps or drown in the sea or go back to war which is 1000000 times worse than the situation in Paris.
Starting to think you are a troll account of tracer dude . And I mean that in the nicest way
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Swedish paper had a article today that 100s of refugees are disappearedin Sweden . With the new boarder controls you are supposed to seek asylum and get processed ( fingerprints , IDs , background checks ) but they say they cant be everywhere and 100s have entered the country and just disappeared
Theres been reports of fake passports being used in sweden and with the paris attacks
Well it was more a comment and update on the situation we were talking about before about not knowing who is coming into the country. Im not saying all are terrorist , but we should know who everybody is
As for the highlighted part , Yes we have , but I live there , and its valid to bring up 1 country , specialy if you live in that country . Cant just talk about all of europe . should be able to comment on 1 country without being told you know it .
And for another update , Swedish police / secret service just had a press conference they are looking for some special people who have made it across the border .
Think it was a day or 2 ago but 2 papers reported Belgium and Sweden had been hot spots for ISIS recruiting and about 200 people had left from Swe and Bel had left for syria . some are coming back to their origin countries . Really baffled how you can grow up in countries like these and turn extremist . We have so much freedom , free speech , free religion , great schools and healthcare . And still they grow up to hate us . wtf ...
'The western military leaders and politicians are raping our lands and killing our people, i know, how about we kill 150 kids from a trendy hipster neighbourhood in paris'
Radicals are radicals, we have them too, this only shadows the US streak of school shooters. Paris wasn't some Syrian country wide plan to terrorize some small theatre in France. How many children do you think were at that death metal show?
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Don't know what you're trying to get into here. i'm not on any sides. Probably not any children there.
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The muslim Nazi version is killing our kids. Let's be the christian-atheist Nazi version and deprive refugees a peaceful life and let em rot at some concentration camps or drown in the sea or go back to war which is 1000000 times worse than the situation in Paris.
Starting to think you are a troll account of tracer dude . And I mean that in the nicest way
Well, making you think is a great success for me. Of course you dont succeed in anything first try. Keep trying.
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Hans Rosling which you guys , and swedish media has been quite quiet since the politicians decided to close the borders . When the media and politicians are changing direction they have decided they dont want him anymore
heres one of his tweets
"With present flow of 90% male refugee children to Sweden, the Swedish Teen Sex Ratio
will in 4 months be like in China: 120 boys/100 girls."
https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608
Is this one of those beneficial things about taking in all these refugees you guys were talking about ???
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Your mom has a different opinion ;)
No need to explain why this is some Nazi bullshit. And the comments are horrifying. The ignorance and the cliche racist comments make me sick.
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Your mom has a different opinion ;)
No need to explain why this is some Nazi bullshit. And the comments are horrifying. The ignorance and the cliche racist comments make me sick.
Ive talked to my mom about this refugee crisis and while she feels empathy with the refugees she doesn not think its a good idea to deal with it like the swedish / EU governments have done . I also asked if she talked to some greek guy the past few days and she said no . So unless you want to call her a liar , I guess this another example of how you bend the facts , lie and have no good arguments without resulting to insults .
Is that how you got taught how to debate in greece ? insults and " mom " jokes ?
I guess this is why you call Hans Rosling a nazi . Accusations based on no reality . Hes been one of the most outspoken ones on media , benefits and talking to government that we should take in the refugees .
He is a Swedish medical doctor, academic, statistician and public speaker . So Im guessing when he was looking at the STATISTICS
you know since he is a statistician . I guess theres where he looked at the STATISTICS and found that he was correct
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Rosling
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First of all if he is a scientist he should post a study with facts and his views. Not some provocative statement to stimulate the racist shit stains.
Secondly I dont know the man. If I was a serious and renowned scientist I wouldnt use social media. Because misunderstandings can happen very easily and I would definately not want this for my career.
Thirdly the statistics dont say that you are a piece of shit if someone is a hungry refugee and you care about not spoiling your ass. Especially when your allies created this mess and are obliged to solve it.
Fourth male immigrants are the ones who search for job and house and then they bring their family if they make it.
Five thats how I debate with crypto-fascists and xenophobes.
Sixth I doubt that the data are valid, but even if they are explain to me why is that such a big disaster (if it is not temporary as I mentioned) when the proper natural ratio is 1.05 and the sexual ethics are free.
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Heres a Swedish Article
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/)
Since most of you dont read Swedish ill translate and paraphrase it . 30 men in a refugee center tried to attack a woman and her son. They threatend to rape the woman and kill the son . The reason was that they thought it it was a crime that she was without a husband / alone in Sweden .
You might say this is only 30 of all of them , you might say its a isolated event . But every day you see more and more articles and news reports about incidents with violence and complaints . I asked in another post , who exactly are we bringing into Sweden / Europe
People who want to rape a woman and kill her son cause she doesnt have a husband with her .
You call me a crypto-fascists and a xenophobe . You have no clue about my political alignment
Fourth male immigrants are the ones who search for job and house and then they bring their family if they make it.
That sounds great , Do you really think Europe has homes for all these people and jobs ? they are sleeping in tents in sweden . The church had to take people in cause they were gonna sleep outdoors for first snow in Sweden . The unemployment rates in Europe
are high , We dont even have jobs for the people who were born in country
So If they find a home after months / years , if they learn the language after months / years . if the get a job after months / years
Then they want to bring their family over too ? starting the cycle over again
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what about you two take a room together and violently debate in bed ? we'll call your first born "Truth"or"Shut up", there will be a vote on Slap for it....
just kidding, Pals, very interesting thread ;)
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If after 5 pages you havent understood that my stance is that Europe had to think about it before destabilizing middle east along with the US, I caant do anything. Now they have to solve the problem and in a human way that is equivalent to what they claim as the superior western civilization
To be honest the situation is so bad that can be compared with the start of WWI (which led to WWII after). The way out is only war or socialism. Choose your poison.
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Im so sick of both sides. Everyday I hear either old paranoid zenofobia or some feminist moron who refuses to accept the fact that resouces are scarce. Still amazes me that the same fucking arguments arise every time this kind of thing happens.
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who refuses to accept the fact that resouces are scarce.
cheap labor is also a resource and 1st world countries always lack it
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Hans Rosling which you guys , and swedish media has been quite quiet since the politicians decided to close the borders . When the media and politicians are changing direction they have decided they dont want him anymore
heres one of his tweets
"With present flow of 90% male refugee children to Sweden, the Swedish Teen Sex Ratio
will in 4 months be like in China: 120 boys/100 girls."
https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608 (https://twitter.com/hansrosling/status/669678035654852608)
Is this one of those beneficial things about taking in all these refugees you guys were talking about ???
1. Isn't Sweden closing its borders? If it is, the "present flow" is unlikely to continue.
2. If the info in the tweet is correct, do you wonder about why they're mostly male?
3. The group rape thing, does the article say what happened afterwards?
4. Are there any other sources about that story? Expressen is a tabloid, it lives off sensationalism bs, and there will always be suckers who love to be outraged by fabricated stories.
5. When do you think the refugees will destroy the Swedish economy and kick you out of your room? http://www.thelocal.se/20151130/show-of-strength-from-swedish-economy (http://www.thelocal.se/20151130/show-of-strength-from-swedish-economy)
You have no clue about my political alignment
Oh, I think you've told us plenty.
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Ill post some quotes from the "thelocal.se" site you linked
Refugees beg to leave 'inhuman' Malmö shelter
Some 190,000 people are expected to seek asylum in Sweden by the end of the year.
14,000 illegal immigrants disappear without trace
Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Löfven has promised a further 250 million kronor ($28.5m) to fight global warming
The unemployment rate for foreign-born people in Sweden is 21.8 percent
Sweden is one of the worst countries in the OECD at getting immigrants into the labour market. Sweden has the largest gap in employment rates between native-born people and immigrants in the OECD. It is particularly bad at integrating immigrants with low skills.
Its a good thing Sweden is doing so well as it is , cause we are getting fucked over in this crisis . we are giving 250 million to environmental issues and giving 700 million to Turkey to help with the refuge crisis .
5th biggest city in Sweden is Västerås with a pop of 107194 , you are basically taking in 2x Västerås . In the US that would be
Philadelphia 1,560,297. Nobody sees a problem with creating 2x the 5th biggest city in sweden ? All this people need jobs , school,
medical care , day care , hospital and everything ells
If the unemployment rate of foreign people is 20% right now , whats it gonna be like with almost 200000 new people ?
You guys are saying " look at sweden , its not falling appart , its doing good , its rich " But you guys dont live in sweden . Swedes are very good at being views as accepting of all " welcome refugees , we love you " and then they go and vote for Swedish democrats .
The right is on the rise , Swedish democrats have gone from a less then 1% party to some papers claiming 20% .
You think this is because sweden is doing so great ? and that Sweden love refugees ?
Both swedes and foreigners are saying integration in Sweden is not working , schools are getting worse , unemployment is on the rise
tensions are rising . And your guys answer is . Sweden is fine , take in more refugees
Its funny you claim to know my political lining from 1 topic . You havent asked me about my views on drugs / alcohol , prostitution . Taxes or social programs , my view on the euro or European union . My stance on healthcare or schools / university .
Views on animal rights or environmental issues .
Its just , Monty has strong opinions about the refugee crisis , he is a right wing capitalist nazi and a xenophobe
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Sweden hasn't gotten this much news coverage since the invention of dynamite. All it took was foreigners coming from this:
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03246/Yemen_-Houthi-Shii_3246238b.jpg)
trying to live like this:
(http://www.worldtravelimages.net/DSC00630.JPG)
Don't give em a piece of Sweden? They are better off living in tents in Swedish winters than dying in the Middle-East. If shit really hits the fan you can arrest all of them and seize all their belongings. Like what Canada did to the Japanese-Canadians in WW1. It will be interesting to see how Sweden deals with the only adversity they've ever faced. Best thing for Swedes to do is welcome refugees, and integrate them as best as possible. If it goes belly up and Sweden crumbles Europe will deport all 200 000 in some smokescreen.
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You think you are getting fucked over because the government is spending money on global warming? You are such a hardcore lefty!
Also, blaming the refugees for Sweden's racism is basically textbook victim shaming.
Btw, any follow up on the group rape story? I put the text from your link in google translate and could find no mention of rape. Is there another word for rape in Swedish apart from v�ldt�kt?
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Sweden hasn't gotten this much news coverage since the invention of dynamite. All it took was foreigners coming from this:
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03246/Yemen_-Houthi-Shii_3246238b.jpg)
trying to live like this:
(http://www.worldtravelimages.net/DSC00630.JPG)
Don't give em a piece of Sweden? They are better off living in tents in Swedish winters than dying in the Middle-East. If shit really hits the fan you can arrest all of them and seize all their belongings. Like what Canada did to the Japanese-Canadians in WW1. It will be interesting to see how Sweden deals with the only adversity they've ever faced. Best thing for Swedes to do is welcome refugees, and integrate them as best as possible. If it goes belly up and Sweden crumbles Europe will deport all 200 000 in some smokescreen.
WWII
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You think you are getting fucked over because the government is spending money on global warming? You are such a hardcore lefty!
Oh calm down Alan , take a deep breath .the context was that we just had to spend a lot of money . The reason we can spend alot on environmental issuses is that we give a damn about it . The more we have to spend on issues like the refugee
crisis is money we could have spent otherwise . like more to the environment , more to schools , infrastructure
These are the guys I vote for , MiljoPartiet . Ive voted for them in all elections since I turned 18
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_%28Sweden%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Party_%28Sweden%29)
Also, blaming the refugees for Sweden's racism is basically textbook victim shaming.
Dude , Sweden is just racist cause Sweden is racist , I have Swedish born foreigners friends who tell me they would vote for
Swedish democrats . Its the swedish way to talk shit when the cameras are not there . You should see us on public
transportation , or when swedes stand by the door , looking out of the peephole to make sure no neighbors are there
when we want to leave the house
Latest poles had the Swedish Democrats at almost 20% . Do you really think thats healthy numbers Alan ?
Btw, any follow up on the group rape story? I put the text from your link in google translate and could find no mention of rape. Is there another word for rape in Swedish apart from v�ldt�kt?
ya . Rape was brought up 3 times in the article , the other times they refer to it as illegal threats and threatening to murder .
våldta = rape
v�ldt�kt = rape
våldtog = raped
våldtar = raping
The original article was from
http://www.allehanda.se/angermanland/kramfors/mobb-skulle-valdta-kvinna-och-doda-sonen-anmalda-for-olaga-hot (http://www.allehanda.se/angermanland/kramfors/mobb-skulle-valdta-kvinna-och-doda-sonen-anmalda-for-olaga-hot)
Which is a local new agency from that area . They did a follow up
http://www.allehanda.se/angermanland/kramfors/efter-dods-och-valdtaktshoten-nu-flyttas-den-drabbade-familjen-fran-asylboendet-i-nora (http://www.allehanda.se/angermanland/kramfors/efter-dods-och-valdtaktshoten-nu-flyttas-den-drabbade-familjen-fran-asylboendet-i-nora)
Which said the immigration office has made a police report , and they have decided to move the woman and her son to another location.
The family was happy with the decision . And the event is being investigated by the police . Nobody wanted to comment more to the press
I did find another Immigrant rape story while trying to find the follow up to the one we are talking about now
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/tva-man-doms-till-fangelse-efter-valdtakt/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/tva-man-doms-till-fangelse-efter-valdtakt/)
2 people are getting prison then getting deported
Rape / sexual assault happens quite often in Sweden . Im trying to find some statistics on how many % are commuted by Men / Women , how many of the victims are Men / Women . And how many % is commited by Swedes / Foreigners . But alot of the sites with information seems kinda sketchy and from right wingish / anti muslim sites
If you know any sites to be trusted about this let me know alan
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"Calm down," says the guy with the most alarmist posts in this thread.
Yeah, yeah, I know about rape in Sweden, it was big news in recent years. The slant was anti-foreign...
Dunno, I'd like to resurrect this thread in a year and see how many of your fears came true...
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Of course there are assholes between refugees. Assholes are everywhere.
How many rapists are there if you randomly take 300.000 white european males? enough to make 3-4 rape incidents in out of control situations? I bet more. There is no rape race, religion or ethnicity, only assholes who use religion, money or power to rape women. And percentages of assholeness in a group of people have to do with education and poverty. Guess who is responsible for that...
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Vive la france, it was about time Europe throws away its mask. Sweden Next?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35025846 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35025846)
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No it was finland next
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12040552/Finland-says-asylum-seekers-should-work-for-free-and-learn-about-womens-rights.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12040552/Finland-says-asylum-seekers-should-work-for-free-and-learn-about-womens-rights.html)
"It is not necessarily paid work, it could be something outdoors, some maintenance work at the reception centre ... The longer that people are idle, the more frustrated they become," said employment minister Jari Lindstrom"
arbeit macht frei? anyone?
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No it was finland next
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12040552/Finland-says-asylum-seekers-should-work-for-free-and-learn-about-womens-rights.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12040552/Finland-says-asylum-seekers-should-work-for-free-and-learn-about-womens-rights.html)
"It is not necessarily paid work, it could be something outdoors, some maintenance work at the reception centre ... The longer that people are idle, the more frustrated they become," said employment minister Jari Lindstrom"
arbeit macht frei? anyone?
Maybe more like job training . Something to do instead of just sitting and getting paid to do nothing . You know you should do something more then just be a refugee to get free food , housing and healthcare . Learn the language , get involved into society
How long do you suggest tufty they sit and collect aid without giving anything back ?
And 2 of the reasons why Finland is so anti refugee is cause they are pretty racist ( more then sweden ) and
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343066/Fights-fury-Ku-Klux-Klan-Finland-faces-wave-vigilante-mobs-targeting-migrants-arrest-Afghan-asylum-seeker-rape-14-year-old-schoolgirl-pushes-one-town-brink.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3343066/Fights-fury-Ku-Klux-Klan-Finland-faces-wave-vigilante-mobs-targeting-migrants-arrest-Afghan-asylum-seeker-rape-14-year-old-schoolgirl-pushes-one-town-brink.html)
rape of a 14-year-old girl as she walked home on a Monday night a fortnight ago.
The alleged culprit is one of the young men living at a migrant centre, which locals did not want in the first place
It has since emerged that police have arrested a 17-year-old boy at the centre, who is in custody awaiting trial
And
Afghan Ramin Azimi was jailed for life for raping a 17-year-old Finnish girl from Pori and burning her alive
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Unpaid labour is slavery end of story. Even paid labour is slavery but not with today's standards. Refugees AND immigrants should get citizen status and pressure governments for the right to work a decent paid job along with unemployed locals. End of story
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Afghan Ramin Azimi was jailed for life for raping a 17-year-old Finnish girl from Pori and burning her alive
Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.
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Unpaid labour is slavery end of story. Even paid labour is slavery but not with today's standards. Refugees AND immigrants should get citizen status and pressure governments for the right to work a decent paid job along with unemployed locals. End of story
Tufty , you are so lost that its not even funny . Ive worked for free at a number of restaurants , its part of the culture . I was happy to work there and get experiance , and they were happy to get the extra help and a chef who wanted to learn , work hard , and experience things .
Paid labour is slavery ? Are you comparing people who work for minimum wage to the african slaves who were SLAVES ( They had no choise ) And got raped , murderd , branded , bread ? .
And the highlighted part is just another statement why you are a super lost kid . What do you even do for a living ? what schooling did you have ? what do you work with ? You think countries have high unemployment rates because governments just dont feel like
giving people jobs ?
I hope you run into a real freed slave from the Congo or something , somebody who lived with the threat of death if he didnt work hard enough , and hear you complaing about how you were a slave under minimum wage living in europe .
Hey Alan , this is the guy you tend to agree with . A person who thinks working a regular job is slavery
Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.
I never said he was part of this recent refugee insurgence . I said He was part of the rising hate for refugees in a already Racist finland
Are you suggesting his rape and murder of a finish teen is helping the refugee situation ? if so Ill recheck my facts and make a reply
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Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.
I never said he was part of this recent refugee insurgence . I said He was part of the rising hate for refugees in a already Racist finland
Are you suggesting his rape and murder of a finish teen is helping the refugee situation ? if so Ill recheck my facts and make a reply
Of course it isn't helping and I'm certainly not claiming otherwise. Still, it isn't as integral incident for the new surge of open racism in Finland as you're making it to be.
I understand personal bias and intuition can be misleading, considering we all tend to live in our own bubbles. It doesn't change the fact that you're consistently pulling stuff out of your arse, the aforementioned crime of passion being just another example of it.
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Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.
I never said he was part of this recent refugee insurgence . I said He was part of the rising hate for refugees in a already Racist finland
Are you suggesting his rape and murder of a finish teen is helping the refugee situation ? if so Ill recheck my facts and make a reply
Of course it isn't helping and I'm certainly not claiming otherwise. Still, it isn't as integral incident for the new surge of open racism in Finland as you're making it to be.
I understand personal bias and intuition can be misleading, considering we all tend to live in our own bubbles. It doesn't change the fact that you're consistently pulling stuff out of your arse, the aforementioned crime of passion being just another example of it.
Im not from Finland but I used to live in Finland afew years ago . Its one of the most openly racist places Ive seen . Im not calling all in Finland or everywhere in Finland racist . But I do believe most people who have stayed / lived in Finland would agree
Im not sure how you suggest we are ranking integral incidents in this crisis ? You say you are not claimng that it hasnt had a huge impact too boost the hatred against refugees , but you also say its just a small insignificant incident ?
I dont really see your point here . First you say Im claiming this guy was part of the new refugees , which I didnt . And when I fire back you say Im right . But then you say Im pulling facts out of my ass again
And if you think Im pulling things out of my arse , please reference the cases and Ill counter argue them . If Im wrong Im wrong .
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Unpaid labour is slavery end of story. Even paid labour is slavery but not with today's standards. Refugees AND immigrants should get citizen status and pressure governments for the right to work a decent paid job along with unemployed locals. End of story
Tufty , you are so lost that its not even funny . Ive worked for free at a number of restaurants , its part of the culture . I was happy to work there and get experiance , and they were happy to get the extra help and a chef who wanted to learn , work hard , and experience things .
Its part of the nowadays stupidity and domination of corporations, that pushed down wages and skyrocketed unemployment or worse unpaid labour. The fact that people that work for free are as proud like you shows the mental degeneration of our generation. I can write a book about why internships and such bullshit are a bad thing.
Paid labour is slavery ? Are you comparing people who work for minimum wage to the african slaves who were SLAVES ( They had no choise ) And got raped , murderd , branded , bread ? .
I dont see any differnce between slaves who work for food and housing from their masters and nowadays minimum wage people that barely get by to pay just for their debt,housing and food. I wont get into why you are a slave even if you are paid good since you cant comprehend the basics.
And the highlighted part is just another statement why you are a super lost kid . What do you even do for a living ? what schooling did you have ? what do you work with ? You think countries have high unemployment rates because governments just dont feel like
giving people jobs ?
I have studied electrical engineering and computer science which is 5 year program here. I am into electronics and I work mostly on embedded systems as a freelancer but I also tutor students at local university, mostly electronics and control theory. I think countries have high unemployment rates because unemployment is not their number one priority, but catering the markets and banks is that. Employment is a right on a socialist system but in a capitalist system its a commodity. Sometimes that commodity is useless to the buyer (but not to society) or has to be devalued to create more profit opportunities. And I have problem when people are seen as commodities.
I hope you run into a real freed slave from the Congo or something , somebody who lived with the threat of death if he didnt work hard enough , and hear you complaing about how you were a slave under minimum wage living in europe .
The bullshit argument that there are people living worse lives than ours doesnt mean a thing. Actually this statement allows unfinished revolutions and favors the conservatives that are creeping to bring slavery in forms that go unoticed by disillusioned and uneducated people with handful degrees(who are the majority in West) that cant tell when they are being fucked over.
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Yeah, unpaid work is slavery. It amazes me that some people who are affected by this think it's "part of the culture," but I guess it just goes to show how deep-seated inequality is in our society. Accepting it, for whatever reason, is one thing, but when you think that it is normal, then you have a problem. Tufty already mentioned unpaid internships, and that was my first association as well.
Imagine if all the workers during the industrial revolution were like Monty, e.g. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We'd all still be going to work after the 2nd or 3rd grade and dying from TB at 18.
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Of Afghan decent but not a recent refugee. They were dating, she broke it off, started seeing someone else and he lost it. Nothing to do with the refugee situation. Check your facts, Monty.
I never said he was part of this recent refugee insurgence . I said He was part of the rising hate for refugees in a already Racist finland
Are you suggesting his rape and murder of a finish teen is helping the refugee situation ? if so Ill recheck my facts and make a reply
Of course it isn't helping and I'm certainly not claiming otherwise. Still, it isn't as integral incident for the new surge of open racism in Finland as you're making it to be.
I understand personal bias and intuition can be misleading, considering we all tend to live in our own bubbles. It doesn't change the fact that you're consistently pulling stuff out of your arse, the aforementioned crime of passion being just another example of it.
Im not from Finland but I used to live in Finland afew years ago . Its one of the most openly racist places Ive seen . Im not calling all in Finland or everywhere in Finland racist . But I do believe most people who have stayed / lived in Finland would agree
Im not sure how you suggest we are ranking integral incidents in this crisis ? You say you are not claimng that it hasnt had a huge impact too boost the hatred against refugees , but you also say its just a small insignificant incident ?
I dont really see your point here . First you say Im claiming this guy was part of the new refugees , which I didnt . And when I fire back you say Im right . But then you say Im pulling facts out of my ass again
And if you think Im pulling things out of my arse , please reference the cases and Ill counter argue them . If Im wrong Im wrong .
Saying an incident isn't as integral as you're claiming it to be (assuming that's the reason why you brought it up in the first place?) and agreeing on the matter being hurtful aren't two mutually exclusive things. Requesting you to check the facts was in reference to the link you posted. The article gives the impression that the murder happened in conjunction with the other recent refugee related incidents. Apologies for being so cryptic.
On the other hand there's a few pages of misconstrued information you've been posting that has already been questioned to no avail. No point rehashing it.
I take it you've read the latest news about Sweden prevailing after all:
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/ (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/)
http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration (http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration)
Rest assured, the crisis will even more likely not affect your personal life whatsoever.
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There's a rape epidemic in Sweden directly connected to the refugee crisis. These immigrants don't have ethics, you can't just teach them Swedish and suddenly adapt to European culture. No doubt the gov't knew this would happen.
Start having kids again Europe! Why are Euros so afraid to have 8-9 children and a big family? You love your culture so much right?
you either are real fucking regular or just taking the piss
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Pointing out the truth isn't being insulting or racist. It's not called a "crisis" because the refugees are bringing flowers and plans to build houses for their families.. It's a problem when they kidnap innocent people, rob and gang rape young girls to death. Canada takes more % of immigrants than anyone, but they are smart about it and don't let 200 000 Syrians in per year, that is recipe for disaster, as anyone with common sense knows.
little ignorant piece of shit. the more posts of yours i read the more frustrated i get. its people like you that cause the majority of problems in the whole world. people like you become the next man to decide to bomb whichever little country in the other side of the earth just for some gallons of gas. instead of talking bs on the internet have you considered educating yourself (and mainly your soul) and thinking for solutions other than fearmongering? how about some of the weapons factories that supply everyone with weapons shut down so there are no more guns to fight with? how about the major canadian energy groups stop invading small countries like Greece, Venezuela and Peru to rob them from vital resources such as water and oil (and some non-vital such as gold - with harsh environmental consequences)? I would prefer all the emploees of the above mentioned businesses to lose their fucking jobs than to ever hear of a single bombing in Asia again. How about you chill on being brainwashed by tv for a while and watch some indy documentary on what the fuck is actually happening and WHY it is happening?
Stop suggesting crap like europeans should give more births because Europe is already overpopulated and more births would definitely make things worse. its not a matter of Europe structurally surviving but more like "how are we going to feed all these people" and "how are we going to stop all this bombing in Asia"
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Monty, it sounds like you're parroting the typical bs from European tabloids and their online commenters.
Example:
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You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
This is the dumbest comment of them all, and it gets spouted a lot on the internet. I am for free education, does that mean I have to teach kids in my house? I am for free medical insurance, do I need to treat people in my house? No, I am paying taxes so that these services are available to all, and it's the government's responsibility to provide them.
Sure , you pay taxes for all of those things , but what do we do when theres not enough money ? . Biggest problem with taking all these refugees in are housing . We currently have a buss in sweden with 50 something refugese refusing to leave the buss that drove them to their temperary housing cause they dont feel its safe . The compaints was there was no wifi , no close shops , not in a big city and there might be wild life around like Moose . In a situation like this one could say if you really cared about these people let them move into your apartment since the government doesnt have the resources to put them else ware
Please give me a solution to taking in all these people ? higher taxes ? building more schools , more housing ? more hospitals ? create more jobs for teachers and doctors ? . We cant even do that when we have no refugees to help
If a lady gets shot in the street , 2 para medics bring her up to your house and say they need to treat her here and now . Do you refuse cause while you are for free health care you want your goverment to handle it , you pay them for it . Or do you let them treat her . I mean shes not gonna stay there for ever
If some refugese need a place to stay for awhile , maybe afew months . Do you let them ? I mean they need a place to stay and its not forever
Who are you guys blaming for the war ? was Assad set up as ruler of Syria by US or EU ? . Isnt the current war in syria and Iraq betwen 2 muslim sects ? the sunni and shia ? . Sweden is a neutral country , we had peace keeping missions in Afghanistan , We havent had anything to do with Syria or Iraq , In fact we didnt support the Iraq war , yet we take in refugees from all these countries
I know its known now that Bush and Blair set this whole thing up . I think Bush , blair and cheney should be in some war trail . But are you guys sure Iraq / Afghanistan were better off with the Taliban and Husein and his sons ?
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion . Im not trying to insult or call you guys names and shit . So lets try to keep it civil and have a calm discussion about this
Greece is famous for being in deep shit since 2009. Yet you know something that they dont say at your news? Greece has more billioners and richer billioners than those it had 6 years ago. My family lost 40% of their income during those years so that the billioners can keep on profiting. Kids at schools are hungry. Infrastructure is rotting. Desperate people are commiting suicide. Unemployment is at 27% while youth unemployment is at 50%. And now they let immigrants and refugees dieing in our shores and seas.
Everyone that says that there are no money should be ashamed. There are money in the hands of greedy sociopath assholes, who dont give a fuck about human life. Refugees, immigrants, locals have all right to work, housing and decent living.
Tracer, since you seem to know so much about Greeks let me assume you have been to Greece many times aye? next time you come over please make sure you die on the way.
I wanted to go through this thread to find out what skaters over the world think about the crisis in Europe but i keep stumbling on Tracer's racist and ignorant comments and can't stop myself from protesting against his shitty beliefs. The way it goes I'm never going to make to page 3 as the cunt seems to post every 5 fucking seconds.
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You must be new here. Just ignore Tracer, I dont think he even believes what he writes and I dont know if that is less alarming.
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Yes i am new. i wish i could find that piece of shit, tracer and school his fucking mouth
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(http://www.slapmagazine.com/SMF/Themes/Default%20Dark/images/english/ignore.gif) is your friend.
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Heres a Swedish Article
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/)
Since most of you dont read Swedish ill translate and paraphrase it . 30 men in a refugee center tried to attack a woman and her son. They threatend to rape the woman and kill the son . The reason was that they thought it it was a crime that she was without a husband / alone in Sweden .
You might say this is only 30 of all of them , you might say its a isolated event . But every day you see more and more articles and news reports about incidents with violence and complaints . I asked in another post , who exactly are we bringing into Sweden / Europe
People who want to rape a woman and kill her son cause she doesnt have a husband with her .
You call me a crypto-fascists and a xenophobe . You have no clue about my political alignment
Expand Quote
Fourth male immigrants are the ones who search for job and house and then they bring their family if they make it.
That sounds great , Do you really think Europe has homes for all these people and jobs ? they are sleeping in tents in sweden . The church had to take people in cause they were gonna sleep outdoors for first snow in Sweden . The unemployment rates in Europe
are high , We dont even have jobs for the people who were born in country
So If they find a home after months / years , if they learn the language after months / years . if the get a job after months / years
Then they want to bring their family over too ? starting the cycle over again
yo dude, before Europe refuses to provide these war victims with shelter we should first consider stopping the constant supply of weapons. Do you know that ISIS get their guns from 'Murica, UK et al? Do you not think it is fair enough that there is a backlash to this trade? Of course i would prefer no refugees in my country (though no weapons are produced in greece) but im putting up with the fact that there are some people in need and if i dont help them they will die. simple as.
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Expand Quote
Heres a Swedish Article
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/)
Since most of you dont read Swedish ill translate and paraphrase it . 30 men in a refugee center tried to attack a woman and her son. They threatend to rape the woman and kill the son . The reason was that they thought it it was a crime that she was without a husband / alone in Sweden .
You might say this is only 30 of all of them , you might say its a isolated event . But every day you see more and more articles and news reports about incidents with violence and complaints . I asked in another post , who exactly are we bringing into Sweden / Europe
People who want to rape a woman and kill her son cause she doesnt have a husband with her .
You call me a crypto-fascists and a xenophobe . You have no clue about my political alignment
Expand Quote
Fourth male immigrants are the ones who search for job and house and then they bring their family if they make it.
That sounds great , Do you really think Europe has homes for all these people and jobs ? they are sleeping in tents in sweden . The church had to take people in cause they were gonna sleep outdoors for first snow in Sweden . The unemployment rates in Europe
are high , We dont even have jobs for the people who were born in country
So If they find a home after months / years , if they learn the language after months / years . if the get a job after months / years
Then they want to bring their family over too ? starting the cycle over again
yo dude, before Europe refuses to provide these war victims with shelter we should first consider stopping the constant supply of weapons. Do you know that ISIS get their guns from 'Murica, UK et al? Do you not think it is fair enough that there is a backlash to this trade? Of course i would prefer no refugees in my country (though no weapons are produced in greece) but im putting up with the fact that there are some people in need and if i dont help them they will die. simple as.
So what exactly are you personally doing to help them??? Or any of you people on here for that matter???
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Heres a Swedish Article
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/)
Since most of you dont read Swedish ill translate and paraphrase it . 30 men in a refugee center tried to attack a woman and her son. They threatend to rape the woman and kill the son . The reason was that they thought it it was a crime that she was without a husband / alone in Sweden .
You might say this is only 30 of all of them , you might say its a isolated event . But every day you see more and more articles and news reports about incidents with violence and complaints . I asked in another post , who exactly are we bringing into Sweden / Europe
People who want to rape a woman and kill her son cause she doesnt have a husband with her .
You call me a crypto-fascists and a xenophobe . You have no clue about my political alignment
Expand Quote
Fourth male immigrants are the ones who search for job and house and then they bring their family if they make it.
That sounds great , Do you really think Europe has homes for all these people and jobs ?� they are sleeping in tents in sweden . The church had to take people in cause they were gonna sleep outdoors for first snow in Sweden . The unemployment rates in Europe
are high , We dont even have jobs for the people who were born in country
So If they find a home after months / years , if they learn the language after months / years . if the get a job after months / years
Then they want to bring their family over too ? starting the cycle over again
yo dude, before Europe refuses to provide these war victims with shelter we should first consider stopping the constant supply of weapons. Do you know that ISIS get their guns from 'Murica, UK et al? Do you not think it is fair enough that there is a backlash to this trade? Of course i would prefer no refugees in my country (though no weapons are produced in greece) but im putting up with the fact that there are some people in need and if i dont help them they will die. simple as.
i live in greece and very near to Lesvos, the island withe the biggest refugee problem. It is very common these days for people to gather in groups of 5-10, maybe more and collect whatever they can get (dry food, clothes, medicine, condoms, blankets, baby stuff) and send the lot to people they know that are personally going to deliver the items to refugees. I dont really trust any organisations that do this job. What im doing is no big deal. It is so common in greece that even trendy coffe shops have started creating spaces for refugee item gathering. Actually if you live in greece right now, the only reason for someone not to help refugees is that they dont wanna help refugees. It is this easy and constantly in your face. Anyway, even protesting against the use of weapons and also protesting against any involvement in military actions in asia is "helping refugees" in my mind as these two things are what created refugees in the first place.
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Expand Quote
Expand Quote
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Heres a Swedish Article
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/grupp-av-man-hotade-valdta-kvinna/)
Since most of you dont read Swedish ill translate and paraphrase it . 30 men in a refugee center tried to attack a woman and her son. They threatend to rape the woman and kill the son . The reason was that they thought it it was a crime that she was without a husband / alone in Sweden .
You might say this is only 30 of all of them , you might say its a isolated event . But every day you see more and more articles and news reports about incidents with violence and complaints . I asked in another post , who exactly are we bringing into Sweden / Europe
People who want to rape a woman and kill her son cause she doesnt have a husband with her .
You call me a crypto-fascists and a xenophobe . You have no clue about my political alignment
Expand Quote
Fourth male immigrants are the ones who search for job and house and then they bring their family if they make it.
That sounds great , Do you really think Europe has homes for all these people and jobs ?� they are sleeping in tents in sweden . The church had to take people in cause they were gonna sleep outdoors for first snow in Sweden . The unemployment rates in Europe
are high , We dont even have jobs for the people who were born in country
So If they find a home after months / years , if they learn the language after months / years . if the get a job after months / years
Then they want to bring their family over too ? starting the cycle over again
yo dude, before Europe refuses to provide these war victims with shelter we should first consider stopping the constant supply of weapons. Do you know that ISIS get their guns from 'Murica, UK et al? Do you not think it is fair enough that there is a backlash to this trade? Of course i would prefer no refugees in my country (though no weapons are produced in greece) but im putting up with the fact that there are some people in need and if i dont help them they will die. simple as.
i live in greece and very near to Lesvos, the island withe the biggest refugee problem. It is very common these days for people to gather in groups of 5-10, maybe more and collect whatever they can get (dry food, clothes, medicine, condoms, blankets, baby stuff) and send the lot to people they know that are personally going to deliver the items to refugees. I dont really trust any organisations that do this job. What im doing is no big deal. It is so common in greece that even trendy coffe shops have started creating spaces for refugee item gathering. Actually if you live in greece right now, the only reason for someone not to help refugees is that they dont wanna help refugees. It is this easy and constantly in your face. Anyway, even protesting against the use of weapons and also protesting against any involvement in military actions in asia is "helping refugees" in my mind as these two things are what created refugees in the first place.
Well thats awesome. Nice work. And yeah, "ignore" works wonders.
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Denmark next. Will they pull their golden teeth off? Dont think so this is too much Nazi like.
http://www.channel4.com/news/yes-denmark-really-wants-to-strip-refugees-of-jewellery (http://www.channel4.com/news/yes-denmark-really-wants-to-strip-refugees-of-jewellery)
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Sweden just pulled up the ladder.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/03/sweden-to-impose-id-checks-on-travellers-from-denmark (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/03/sweden-to-impose-id-checks-on-travellers-from-denmark)
In the words of the Social Democrats and Greens government
“The government now considers that the current situation, with a large number of people entering the country in a relatively short time, poses a serious threat to public order and national security,”
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Schegen seems to fade away. That's a big hit for the image of EU. Another nail on the coffin I would say.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-04/schengen-tensions-mount-as-swedish-border-checks-anger-denmark (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-04/schengen-tensions-mount-as-swedish-border-checks-anger-denmark)
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Did anyone else see this? This is a prediction from the lady who predicted that America would be attacked by steel birds and the 2004 tsunami..
(http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6972629.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Baba-Vanga.jpg)
(http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/blind-bulgarian-mystic-baba-vanga-6972627)Baba Vanga, a Bulgarian clairvoyant, made a chilling prophecy warning of an invasion of Europe by Muslim extremists in 2016.
She foresaw a "great Muslim war" which would begin with the Arab Spring in 2010, play out in Syria and end with the establishment of a caliphate by 2043 with Rome at its epicentre, News.com.au reported ... The prophetess reportedly warned that Europe will "cease to exist" by the end of next year and the continent as we know it will be left “wasteland".
Conspiracy theorists highlight how ISIS is gaining territory perilously close to Europe, with colonies in Libya and Syria...
**All the things she predicted that came true**
The Kursk nuclear submarine disaster
Global warming
9/11 - “Horror, horror! The American brethren will fall after being attacked by the steel birds. The wolves will be howling in a bush, and innocent blood will be gushing."
The 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami - "A huge wave will cover a big coast covered with people and towns, and everything will disappear beneath the water. Everything will melt, just like ice."
A "great Muslim war" beginning with the Arab Spring and culminating in the rise of Isis
The election of Barack Obama - She predicted that the 44th President would be an African American. She also predicted he would be the last US President.
World War II
The date on which Tsar Boris III died
The break up of Czechoslovakia
The break up of the Soviet Union
The break up of Yugoslavia
East and West Germany's reunification
Boris Yeltsin's election
The Chernobyl disaster
The date of Stalin's death
The conflicts in Syria
The separation of Crimea
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Did anyone else see this? This is a prediction from the lady who predicted that America would be attacked by steel birds and the 2004 tsunami..
(http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article6972629.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Baba-Vanga.jpg)
(http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/blind-bulgarian-mystic-baba-vanga-6972627)Expand Quote
Baba Vanga, a Bulgarian clairvoyant, made a chilling prophecy warning of an invasion of Europe by Muslim extremists in 2016.
She foresaw a "great Muslim war" which would begin with the Arab Spring in 2010, play out in Syria and end with the establishment of a caliphate by 2043 with Rome at its epicentre, News.com.au reported ... The prophetess reportedly warned that Europe will "cease to exist" by the end of next year and the continent as we know it will be left �wasteland".
Conspiracy theorists highlight how ISIS is gaining territory perilously close to Europe, with colonies in Libya and Syria...
**All the things she predicted that came true**
The Kursk nuclear submarine disaster
Global warming
9/11 - �Horror, horror! The American brethren will fall after being attacked by the steel birds. The wolves will be howling in a bush, and innocent blood will be gushing."
The 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami - "A huge wave will cover a big coast covered with people and towns, and everything will disappear beneath the water. Everything will melt, just like ice."
A "great Muslim war" beginning with the Arab Spring and culminating in the rise of Isis
The election of Barack Obama - She predicted that the 44th President would be an African American. She also predicted he would be the last US President.
World War II
The date on which Tsar Boris III died
The break up of Czechoslovakia
The break up of the Soviet Union
The break up of Yugoslavia
East and West Germany's reunification
Boris Yeltsin's election
The Chernobyl disaster
The date of Stalin's death
The conflicts in Syria
The separation of Crimea
Why she doesnt win the lottery with such great prediction skills?!
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To be fair, Houellebecq said the same and he is far from clairvoyant.
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Do you actually believe that fucking nonsense? All these "clairvoyants" do is say some vague shit that could be interpreted 1,000 different ways, and give a year it'll happen.
Example:
In 2016, an unlike entity, will gain power, in the West...
Could mean
Sanders becomes president (socialist), Trump becomes president (person), Hillary becomes president (woman), Isis claims even the smallest big of European territory, some other candidate unlike most seen before wins any election in Europe, a small mouse kills a large mouse in a London train station.........
If you say shit like this 20 times a day, you're bound to have a few pretty good predictions.
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Do you actually believe that fucking nonsense? All these "clairvoyants" do is say some vague shit that could be interpreted 1,000 different ways, and give a year it'll happen.
Example:
In 2016, an unlike entity, will gain power, in the West...
Could mean
Sanders becomes president (socialist), Trump becomes president (person), Hillary becomes president (woman), Isis claims even the smallest big of European territory, some other candidate unlike most seen before wins any election in Europe, a small mouse kills a large mouse in a London train station.........
If you say shit like this 20 times a day, you're bound to have a few pretty good predictions.
Well clearly people believe her cause they're still talking about her almost 20 years after she died. But you know if you're having a hard time believing that, then stick with religion cause that's the clairvoyant of history that took the whole world, hook, line and sinker.
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Dude, your bs argument aside, this is the wrong place for Baba Vanga. Just open a thread for clairvoyance and allow us to wallow in our ignorance...
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Mass Refugee/Immigrant grave in Kato Tritos Village in Lesvos Island
(http://i.imgur.com/tepiPFr.jpg)
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Syrian, Iraqi, and Iranian asylum seekers in Austria are better educated than the Austrians. Afghanis not so much. (in German) http://derstandard.at/2000028899170/AMS-Kompetenzcheck-Syrer-besser-gebildet-als-Oesterreicher (http://derstandard.at/2000028899170/AMS-Kompetenzcheck-Syrer-besser-gebildet-als-Oesterreicher)
Also, has anyone else read the story about how the Danish government wanted to take the refugees' wedding rings as part of payment for their stay in Denmark? Nope, not fascist at all.
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haha, thanks for putting that in here.
still, the right wing in austria is gonna gain even more popularity, its insane. the most depressing part is that i know lots of people that havent seen an immigrant in their whole life, and most likely will never, yet are afraid to their bones that they will rape every single person they know whilst stealing their jobs.
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It's always the ones without direct experience who are the most radical, shaking their fist at the refugees on TV and voting far right.
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Syrian, Iraqi, and Iranian asylum seekers in Austria are better educated than the Austrians. Afghanis not so much. (in German) http://derstandard.at/2000028899170/AMS-Kompetenzcheck-Syrer-besser-gebildet-als-Oesterreicher (http://derstandard.at/2000028899170/AMS-Kompetenzcheck-Syrer-besser-gebildet-als-Oesterreicher)
Also, has anyone else read the story about how the Danish government wanted to take the refugees' wedding rings as part of payment for their stay in Denmark? Nope, not fascist at all.
The government, the Social Democrats, the Danish People's Party, the Liberal Alliance and the Conservative People's Party have agreed to amend the bill concerning valuables," a government statement said, indicating that wedding rings and other items of sentimental value would be exempt from the move. In addition to wedding rings, it listed engagement rings, family portraits and badges of honour as items that could not be confiscated from asylum seekers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/12096104/Danish-government-secures-backing-for-bill-on-taking-migrants-valuables.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/12096104/Danish-government-secures-backing-for-bill-on-taking-migrants-valuables.html)
How does this not make sense ? you come to a new country and expect housing , a job and financial aid . But you are not willing to give up
personal property like expensive laptops or jewellery
Its like somebody who lives in a huge house with 2 Ferraris and demands financial aid cause he cant afford it . Why not sell the house , buy a cheaper one and get rid of the cars ?
It's always the ones without direct experience who are the most radical, shaking their fist at the refugees on TV and voting far right.
Sweden has been one of the nations who have accepted most refugees in Europe , from many countries and many wars . During this syrian conflict Germany and Sweden were the top 2 countries accepting refugees in Europe I belive
yet we have no direct experience with refugees ? .
As for denmark
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/denmark-happiest-country_n_4070761.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/denmark-happiest-country_n_4070761.html)
They have free healthcare , free school and university , Great support of Familes and parents , Working retirement plans , free museums and art places , focus on environmental issues , liberal drug laws . lots of social support
So yeah alan those fascist bastards . Im surprised Musuelini isnt the PM of Denmark with all that horrible stuff going on
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Ffs...
Yeah, they "amended" the bill, meaning that they initially wanted to take the wedding rings. Do you understand that? They thought that it was a good idea to take wedding rings off people who spent all their savings trying to escape war, leaving almost everything behind. Can you imagine that? And that is acceptable to you, too? Might want to read up on who else confiscated personal items from innocent people.
How does this not make sense ? you come to a new country and expect housing , a job and financial aid . But you are not willing to give up
personal property like expensive laptops or jewellery
So, apart from being more or less skint and unable to afford housing and food, they are also supposed to effectively pay to get a job? Are you mental?
Its like somebody who lives in a huge house with 2 Ferraris and demands financial aid cause he cant afford it . Why not sell the house , buy a cheaper one and get rid of the cars
Great analogy. Not only is it like that, it is exactly like that.
It's always the ones without direct experience who are the most radical, shaking their fist at the refugees on TV and voting far right.
yet we have no direct experience with refugees ?
Perfect, thanks for inadvertently outing yourself.
So yeah alan those fascist bastards . Im surprised Musuelini isnt the PM of Denmark with all that horrible stuff going on
If you knew anything about fascism, you wouldn't confuse the welfare state with tolerance or democracy.
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Yeah Monty we get it, you like Hitler.
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Alan and Tufty , you guys are both ridiculous , But tufty takes the cake . I usually try not to insult people but
Yeah Monty we get it, you like Hitler.
you are a fucking idiot
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Luckily I am an idiot. I could be a Nazi like you.
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Luckily I am an idiot. I could be a Nazi like you.
Monty whos grand parents hid a jewish family during WW2 , Who has multiple Jewish friends , Whos been to Israel 2 times staying in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem , whos dated a jewish girl in tel aviv and who supports alot of Israel foreign and domestic policies
Is a Nazi .
Its a good thing you paid attention in school about history , or read any books about what a nazi is . You are right you are a idiot
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Yeah, your grandparents hid them. Not so sure you'd do the same. Well, I guess it depends on the nationality...
Wait, did those Jews pay your grandparents?
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Expand Quote
Luckily I am an idiot. I could be a Nazi like you.
Monty whos grand parents hid a jewish family during WW2 , Who has multiple Jewish friends , Whos been to Israel 2 times staying in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem , whos dated a jewish girl in tel aviv and who supports alot of Israel foreign and domestic policies
Is a Nazi .
Its a good thing you paid attention in school about history , or read any books about what a nazi is . You are right you are a idiot
Man even Jews can become "Nazis" (and Israel's Zionism is fascism). Stop demonstrating your ignorance. I judge only your racist rants.
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You guys sound like 5 year olds who got their lollipop taken or something
"I dont like what monty says so instead of coming up with a argument , lets accuse him of being a nazi "
grow up , stop crying , try to use your brain and focus
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Monty if you promote ethnic cleansing you will be called a nazi, deal with it. PEGIDA is racist as fuck, and they're growing super fast. Nazis under another name.
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Monty if you promote ethnic cleansing you will be called a nazi, deal with it. PEGIDA is racist as fuck, and they're growing super fast. Nazis under another name.
gonna need a quote of when i promoted that , or a quote where I promoted anything slightly racist or nazi
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You didn't really understand any of my points, did you?
Like this one, for example:
If you knew anything about fascism, you wouldn't confuse the welfare state with tolerance or democracy.
Don't worry. If you want to understand what I'm talking about, I can point you to a couple of monographs dealing with this subject.
Btw, did your grandparents get paid by the Jewish refugees?
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You didn't really understand any of my points, did you?
Like this one, for example:
Expand Quote
If you knew anything about fascism, you wouldn't confuse the welfare state with tolerance or democracy.
Don't worry. If you want to understand what I'm talking about, I can point you to a couple of monographs dealing with this subject.
Btw, did your grandparents get paid by the Jewish refugees?
You dont need to point me in any direction . I know you agree with tufty on things so you must be holding on very thinly to reality .
No they didnt
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So why do you support the Danish government's new policy?
Btw, re: your multicultural friends
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Friend_argument (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Friend_argument)
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Expand Quote
Syrian, Iraqi, and Iranian asylum seekers in Austria are better educated than the Austrians. Afghanis not so much. (in German) http://derstandard.at/2000028899170/AMS-Kompetenzcheck-Syrer-besser-gebildet-als-Oesterreicher (http://derstandard.at/2000028899170/AMS-Kompetenzcheck-Syrer-besser-gebildet-als-Oesterreicher)
Also, has anyone else read the story about how the Danish government wanted to take the refugees' wedding rings as part of payment for their stay in Denmark? Nope, not fascist at all.
Expand Quote
The government, the Social Democrats, the Danish People's Party, the Liberal Alliance and the Conservative People's Party have agreed to amend the bill concerning valuables," a government statement said, indicating that wedding rings and other items of sentimental value would be exempt from the move. In addition to wedding rings, it listed engagement rings, family portraits and badges of honour as items that could not be confiscated from asylum seekers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/12096104/Danish-government-secures-backing-for-bill-on-taking-migrants-valuables.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/12096104/Danish-government-secures-backing-for-bill-on-taking-migrants-valuables.html)
How does this not make sense ? you come to a new country and expect housing , a job and financial aid . But you are not willing to give up
personal property like expensive laptops or jewellery
Its like somebody who lives in a huge house with 2 Ferraris and demands financial aid cause he cant afford it . Why not sell the house , buy a cheaper one and get rid of the cars ?
Expand Quote
It's always the ones without direct experience who are the most radical, shaking their fist at the refugees on TV and voting far right.
Sweden has been one of the nations who have accepted most refugees in Europe , from many countries and many wars . During this syrian conflict Germany and Sweden were the top 2 countries accepting refugees in Europe I belive
yet we have no direct experience with refugees ? .
As for denmark
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/denmark-happiest-country_n_4070761.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/denmark-happiest-country_n_4070761.html)
They have free healthcare , free school and university , Great support of Familes and parents , Working retirement plans , free museums and art places , focus on environmental issues , liberal drug laws . lots of social support
So yeah alan those fascist bastards . Im surprised Musuelini isnt the PM of Denmark with all that horrible stuff going on
giving up a wedding ring? not super important to me(not married), but people can be very sentimental about it. in some cases that may be the only thing they left of their spouse.
give up their laptops for what? its a useful tool for people to find and perform jobs. what would the danish government do with a stack of laptops anyway? or maybe your analogy suggests something more along the lines of refugees trading in their macbooks for an old dell?
danish citizens pay taxes for those services you brought up. wont refugees do the same through sales taxes and eventually through deductions at work? i know finding work for all those people is a big issue which is entirely different, but your arguments are so bad
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Syrian, Iraqi, and Iranian asylum seekers in Austria are better educated than the Austrians. Afghanis not so much. (in German) http://derstandard.at/2000028899170/AMS-Kompetenzcheck-Syrer-besser-gebildet-als-Oesterreicher (http://derstandard.at/2000028899170/AMS-Kompetenzcheck-Syrer-besser-gebildet-als-Oesterreicher)
Also, has anyone else read the story about how the Danish government wanted to take the refugees' wedding rings as part of payment for their stay in Denmark? Nope, not fascist at all.
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The government, the Social Democrats, the Danish People's Party, the Liberal Alliance and the Conservative People's Party have agreed to amend the bill concerning valuables," a government statement said, indicating that wedding rings and other items of sentimental value would be exempt from the move. In addition to wedding rings, it listed engagement rings, family portraits and badges of honour as items that could not be confiscated from asylum seekers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/12096104/Danish-government-secures-backing-for-bill-on-taking-migrants-valuables.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/denmark/12096104/Danish-government-secures-backing-for-bill-on-taking-migrants-valuables.html)
How does this not make sense ? you come to a new country and expect housing , a job and financial aid . But you are not willing to give up
personal property like expensive laptops or jewellery
Its like somebody who lives in a huge house with 2 Ferraris and demands financial aid cause he cant afford it . Why not sell the house , buy a cheaper one and get rid of the cars ?
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It's always the ones without direct experience who are the most radical, shaking their fist at the refugees on TV and voting far right.
Sweden has been one of the nations who have accepted most refugees in Europe , from many countries and many wars . During this syrian conflict Germany and Sweden were the top 2 countries accepting refugees in Europe I belive
yet we have no direct experience with refugees ? .
As for denmark
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/denmark-happiest-country_n_4070761.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/22/denmark-happiest-country_n_4070761.html)
They have free healthcare , free school and university , Great support of Familes and parents , Working retirement plans , free museums and art places , focus on environmental issues , liberal drug laws . lots of social support
So yeah alan those fascist bastards . Im surprised Musuelini isnt the PM of Denmark with all that horrible stuff going on
giving up a wedding ring? not super important to me(not married), but people can be very sentimental about it. in some cases that may be the only thing they left of their spouse.
give up their laptops for what? its a useful tool for people to find and perform jobs. what would the danish government do with a stack of laptops anyway? or maybe your analogy suggests something more along the lines of refugees trading in their macbooks for an old dell?
danish citizens pay taxes for those services you brought up. wont refugees do the same through sales taxes and eventually through deductions at work? i know finding work for all those people is a big issue which is entirely different, but your arguments are so bad
clearly says in the new article and in my quote that they will NOT have to give up things like wedding rings and super personal stuff
How long before these refugees pay taxes ? how long to find a home , learn the language , learn the customs , get into school
get job training , get a job ? . medical treatment , therapy . ?
Many years , and all this time they are not paying taxes , Even people who are for mass immigration and the refugees say that
integration for them is not working at all . so say both the left and right .
New years is a indication of this Cologne has had over 500 reported incidents of immigrants and refugees attacking Germans .
almost 40 incidents of sexual assault and rape at a music festival last summer . That Swedish Police and media decided to
cover up cause they thought it would effect the refugee situation negativity
Theres a thread about the mass sexuall attacks caused by North African and Middle eastern men all over europe in "Whatever" and its been all over the news aswell . Integration is not working
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monty you literally disregard every point everyone else makes and just keep repeating the same shit. do you honestly think that is a good strategy?
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monty you literally disregard every point everyone else makes and just keep repeating the same shit. do you honestly think that is a good strategy?
what point did I not address ? . And I repeat my points cause I have not seen a reason to give up my standpoint
what are alans and tuftys strategies besides calling me a fascist , racist and nazi ?
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monty supports zionism and then get offended when called a nazi ... dude, you are blinded by your own believes.
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monty supports zionism and then get offended when called a nazi ... dude, you are blinded by your own believes.
supporting SOME of Israels domestic and foreign policies makes me a Zionist ?
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monty supports zionism and then get offended when called a nazi ... dude, you are blinded by your own believes.
supporting SOME of Israels domestic and foreign policies makes me a Zionist ?
You could always elaborate on those policies you support? Might give a clearer view of your beliefs, given how selective and subjective you've been while discussing the subject matter at hand.
How does this not make sense ? you come to a new country and expect housing , a job and financial aid . But you are not willing to give up
personal property like expensive laptops or jewellery
Its like somebody who lives in a huge house with 2 Ferraris and demands financial aid cause he cant afford it . Why not sell the house , buy a cheaper one and get rid of the cars ?
I'm amazed how hard it is for you to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Is it really that difficult to relate to this group of people? You've mentioned supporting other countries' policies (ones that aren't directly affecting your life) so it can't be a general disdain for other people. News, notable individuals and acts clouding your judgment? Or have you personally had bad experiences with refugees? I'm honestly curious.
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You could always elaborate on those policies you support? Might give a clearer view of your beliefs, given how selective and subjective you've been while discussing the subject matter at hand.
Why ? its not the topic at hand . Supporting Israel is a response to several people calling me a Nazi , and after hearing I have a history with jews and Israel , I get accused of being a Zionist , while still being called a fascist and racist
Clearer view of my belives ? this thread is 7 pages long , the german sexuall assult thread is 2 pages long , and the paris attacks is 8 pages long . Did you read those threads ? or did you just jump on the " Monty is a Nazi facist racist Zionist "
I'm amazed how hard it is for you to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Is it really that difficult to relate to this group of people? You've mentioned supporting other countries' policies (ones that aren't directly affecting your life) so it can't be a general disdain for other people. News, notable individuals and acts clouding your judgment? Or have you personally had bad experiences with refugees? I'm honestly curious.
Sweden took in about 190 000 refugees in 2015 . Swedens third biggest city is about 300 000 . The swedish government has pretty much closed the borders cause we cant take anymore refugees . When every other country besides Germany was closing the borders , Sweden kept them open until the immigration said it couldnt handle it anymore , we had no more houses . people were sleeping outside or in tents .
The Swedish PM gave a press conference saying the situation is out of control and closed the borders
How can you say I dont have any empathy ? Us swedes just took in a whole new city and yet people want sweden to take more people in . How many have Alans UK taken in ? what about tuftys greece ?
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You could always elaborate on those policies you support? Might give a clearer view of your beliefs, given how selective and subjective you've been while discussing the subject matter at hand.
Why ? its not the topic at hand . Supporting Israel is a response to several people calling me a Nazi , and after hearing I have a history with jews and Israel , I get accused of being a Zionist , while still being called a fascist and racist
Clearer view of my belives ? this thread is 7 pages long , the german sexuall assult thread is 2 pages long , and the paris attacks is 8 pages long . Did you read those threads ? or did you just jump on the " Monty is a Nazi facist racist Zionist "
So your grandparents have a history with jews and you have jewish friends. Sure, guess that works as a refute to being a racist. Supporting Israel and it's policies (to some degree you're not willing to explain, just not zealously?) is understandable, too. It's just that your "I'm not a racist but..." approach to this discussion is bewildering. Hence suggesting you to be more specific. Up to you, really. Not jumping any bandwagons or haven't got any lollipops to be taken from me.
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I'm amazed how hard it is for you to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Is it really that difficult to relate to this group of people? You've mentioned supporting other countries' policies (ones that aren't directly affecting your life) so it can't be a general disdain for other people. News, notable individuals and acts clouding your judgment? Or have you personally had bad experiences with refugees? I'm honestly curious.
Sweden took in about 190 000 refugees in 2015 . Swedens third biggest city is about 300 000 . The swedish government has pretty much closed the borders cause we cant take anymore refugees . When every other country besides Germany was closing the borders , Sweden kept them open until the immigration said it couldnt handle it anymore , we had no more houses . people were sleeping outside or in tents .
The Swedish PM gave a press conference saying the situation is out of control and closed the borders
How can you say I dont have any empathy ? Us swedes just took in a whole new city and yet people want sweden to take more people in . How many have Alans UK taken in ? what about tuftys greece ?
Yes, you've made perfectly clear that Sweden has taken many many refugees compared to other countries. What I asked though was the reason behind your personal detachment from human beings in a dire situation. You are not the whole country of Sweden (Tufty not Greece, Alan certainly not the UK considering he's not from there...) nor am I questioning your ability to be empathic. Inability to relate on the other hand...
You probably just missed it back on page 5 but you (Monty or Monty's Sweden, whichever your definition of you is) will prevail: http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration (http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration) http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/ (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/)
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First of all you are so Nazi that you ask what we have done as a nation. In my sayings I condemn the governments and those who defend their fascist-like policies NOT THE PEOPLE, especially those who critically stand against those politics.
Greece as a whole doesnt mean a thing. The government is playing a dirty game of not assisting the refugees to leave the islands just so that it escalates the tension to blackmail the EU for money for infrastracture for the refugees. The sea borders are impossible to be closed and when you find a boat full of kids and families in the greek waters there is nothing you can do apart from rescuing them, the greek government takes advantage of that to pressure EU by stacking people in greek islands instead of helping them continuing their journey. The government in greece is a fraud and piece of shit like every government in the EU. Instead people of greece have shown tremendous solidarity to refugees offering them housing, food, clothes and helping them as much as we can. However among them there are the incidents of fascists that attack the refugees or those that trick them to make money taking advantage of their vunerable situation(taxi drivers doubling fares, people selling stuff to them in triple prices etc). I ve been part of a movement to pressure greek government to open the terrestrial border with Turkey and disable the minefield there so that people wont get drowned. Of course the government is afraid of getting kicked out of the EU(something I wished even before the crisis) and pretends to shed tears for the drowned immigrants.
Refugees are not idiots. The advancement of technology have reached middle east and Africa, so those people know how west people live compared to them and they want to go there instead of living a life of poverty. They know that Greece is in deep shit and dont want to settle in here. God even Greeks want to leave Greece with all that bailout bullshit. I only search for a job abroad as anything I found here as an engineer is just above poverty line wages. So dont expect immigrants and refugees staying in greece instead prepare to welcome greeks along with them.
Wether you like it or not Imperialism that steals third world's resources so that West can have a nice living standard doesnt come without consequences. It comes with extensive immigration which is far easier today due to the technology.
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Yes, you've made perfectly clear that Sweden has taken many many refugees compared to other countries. What I asked though was the reason behind your personal detachment from human beings in a dire situation. You are not the whole country of Sweden (Tufty not Greece, Alan certainly not the UK considering he's not from there...) nor am I questioning your ability to be empathic. Inability to relate on the other hand...
You probably just missed it back on page 5 but you (Monty or Monty's Sweden, whichever your definition of you is) will prevail: http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration (http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration) http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/ (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/)
That article is bullshit. To say that the refuges will be able to integrate to the society is very unrealistic. Even the small amounts of refugees that have come to europe a few decades ago haven't really been able to culturally integrate to the societies. It has worked out because such small number of people is easy to oppress and ignore. This kind of an amount of people with such extremely different cultural background can't be forced to be second class citizens, they'll want the right to unite and embrace their culture. There will be more incidents where the immigrants harass women, beat up people and cause problems, and where the fascists burn down refuge centers and do other fucked up shit. These incidents get blown out of proportion because of the press and the internet and the tension between the two sides is gonna grow and grow.
First of all you are so Nazi that you ask what we have done as a nation. In my sayings I condemn the governments and those who defend their fascist-like policies NOT THE PEOPLE, especially those who critically stand against those politics.
You're doing the same by saying that the western countries should take responsibility of destabilizing the middle east.
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No I am not. I just say what is ethical for the GOVERNMENTS to do and I know that they wont do this, because it is against the interests of mega corps banks and monopolies in general. If you notice I always refered to policies and never asked for example monty what has done personally. I only refered to people when there were fascist practices. Most people dont have a clue about politics.
I know that my opinions are a minority in Europe which has conservative and fascists governments who are guided by monopolies, mega corps and banks. The only thing I seek to do is to convince people that the enemy is their governments, EU, corporations and banks. Not Immigrants. I dont seek the swedes, germans and danish for example to bare the weight of refugee crisis under this system but rather propose an alternative for whole Europe, instead of falling into the pitfalls the elites create.
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Yes, you've made perfectly clear that Sweden has taken many many refugees compared to other countries. What I asked though was the reason behind your personal detachment from human beings in a dire situation. You are not the whole country of Sweden (Tufty not Greece, Alan certainly not the UK considering he's not from there...) nor am I questioning your ability to be empathic. Inability to relate on the other hand...
You probably just missed it back on page 5 but you (Monty or Monty's Sweden, whichever your definition of you is) will prevail: http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration (http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration) http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/ (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/)
That article is bullshit. To say that the refuges will be able to integrate to the society is very unrealistic. Even the small amounts of refugees that have come to europe a few decades ago haven't really been able to culturally integrate to the societies. It has worked out because such small number of people is easy to oppress and ignore. This kind of an amount of people with such extremely different cultural background can't be forced to be second class citizens, they'll want the right to unite and embrace their culture. There will be more incidents where the immigrants harass women, beat up people and cause problems, and where the fascists burn down refuge centers and do other fucked up shit. These incidents get blown out of proportion because of the press and the internet and the tension between the two sides is gonna grow and grow.
The PM's point of view is admittedly rose-tinted in it's optimism. Can't say the thought of Sweden falling into complete despair because of refugees is any more realistic, though.
I'm fairly certain that not all are going to stay especially if the situation in their home country some day (in the near or distant future) stabilises. I probably wouldn't.
Integration is a tedious process for all parties concerned and hasn't been very successful. It's more to do with the unfit tools and practices of governments than the unwillingness to adapt. Nevertheless, it's pretty bold to assume that refugees arriving in our pseudo-secular countries are unable to conform and embrace their cultural heritage (be religious) at the same time.
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You dont need to point me in any direction . I know you agree with tufty on things so you must be holding on very thinly to reality .
I am suggesting that you read some academic literature on fascist social policies, so that you may understand the parallels to the present situation in Europe in general, and Denmark in particular, but you are happy with getting your opinion from shitty tabloids? That's fine. I'm not really surprised.
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Yes, you've made perfectly clear that Sweden has taken many many refugees compared to other countries. What I asked though was the reason behind your personal detachment from human beings in a dire situation. You are not the whole country of Sweden (Tufty not Greece, Alan certainly not the UK considering he's not from there...) nor am I questioning your ability to be empathic. Inability to relate on the other hand...
You probably just missed it back on page 5 but you (Monty or Monty's Sweden, whichever your definition of you is) will prevail: http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration (http://www.thelocal.se/20151215/swedish-pm-confident-of-refugee-integration) http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/ (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/man-gor-sin-plikt-och-da-far-man-sina-rattigheter-1/)
That article is bullshit. To say that the refuges will be able to integrate to the society is very unrealistic. Even the small amounts of refugees that have come to europe a few decades ago haven't really been able to culturally integrate to the societies. It has worked out because such small number of people is easy to oppress and ignore. This kind of an amount of people with such extremely different cultural background can't be forced to be second class citizens, they'll want the right to unite and embrace their culture. There will be more incidents where the immigrants harass women, beat up people and cause problems, and where the fascists burn down refuge centers and do other fucked up shit. These incidents get blown out of proportion because of the press and the internet and the tension between the two sides is gonna grow and grow.
The PM's point of view is admittedly rose-tinted in it's optimism. Can't say the thought of Sweden falling into complete despair because of refugees is any more realistic, though.
I'm fairly certain that not all are going to stay especially if the situation in their home country some day (in the near or distant future) stabilises. I probably wouldn't.
Integration is a tedious process for all parties concerned and hasn't been very successful. It's more to do with the unfit tools and practices of governments than the unwillingness to adapt. Nevertheless, it's pretty bold to assume that refugees arriving in our pseudo-secular countries are unable to conform and embrace their cultural heritage (be religious) at the same time.
I agree that the governments practices in trying to integrate the refugees are very poor in most countries, but I'd still say that the unwillingness to adapt (which is understandable) is the biggest problem. People can't just abandon their beliefs and morals that they've grown up with and they want to see their kids grow up having similar values. Creating effective tools and practices that wouldn't be forceful and unethical is difficult.
Cultural heritage is a lot more than the religion. Religion is just a name, the differences in the moral values and the way of communicating is what causes problems.
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Alan
Sure Ill look into it abit more . But just like I said . You are backing Tufty , who hates the west , who hates corporation . Who think all that is evil in this world is the west and corporation . Who thinks its modern slavery and the reason of millions of deaths
but is currently applying for a job at a major corporation . If you dont realize what kind of traitor to his cause and scum tufty is .
And did you really try to use " Im not a XXX . my friend is a XXX " against me ? . You really think Im a nazi and Im lying about having
lived in Tel Aviv , having a jewish gf , or having jewish friends ? At the start of these threads we all agreed to have a nice calm
discussion . And now you are pulling shit like that ?
So for Everybody
Fascist
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
How does Sweden , Denmark or me fit under this label ? I vote for the Green Party in sweden every 4 years . I back high taxes to assist social programs in sweden and I think high taxation helps the country . Im for 4 year elections . Im for the EU and for being able to move across
the EU and get a job where you want .
Nazi
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, which controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler and advocated totalitarian government, territorial expansion, anti-Semitism, and Aryan supremacy, all these leading directly to World War II and the Holocaust.
Im not a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party and I wasnt even alive in 1933 or 1945 . I dont agree with a
totalitarian government , Im not suggesting Sweden should expand its territories , Im not a Anti Semite or promoting Aryan Supremacy
Neo Nazi
a person who belongs to a political organization whose beliefs are inspired by or reminiscent of Nazism.
Well I dont believe in any of the old nazi belives , so I cant believe in neo nazi values either
I hope that clears some stuff up . Ive lived and worked in 8 countries for the past 10 years , I work as a chef so Ive worked and been friends
of chefs from maybe 20+ countries of every race and every religion .
So for Garth Marenghi
So your grandparents have a history with jews and you have jewish friends. Sure, guess that works as a refute to being a racist. Supporting Israel and it's policies (to some degree you're not willing to explain, just not zealously?) is understandable, too. It's just that your "I'm not a racist but..." approach to this discussion is bewildering.
Im not sure if you are trolling , But I used it as a explanation and then wrote 2 times more that it was a defence of being called a Nazi . Not sure why you bring it up as a defence for not being racist . What race am I supposed to be racist against ? Syria and Afghanistan is not a race
Sweden is not a race
What I asked though was the reason behind your personal detachment from human beings in a dire situation. You are not the whole country of Sweden (Tufty not Greece, Alan certainly not the UK considering he's not from there...) nor am I questioning your ability to be empathic. Inability to relate on the other hand...
Well where does it end ? Ive brought up Africa many times in this thread . Should Sweden rescue all the people in need in Africa ? what about Asia ? Many live in horrible conditions in Asia . Many live with war in the Middle east ? Do you feel attached to all these people ?.
Imagine Sweden is a boat . it can fit 50 people , or lets say 50 refugees . Now there is about 1 million refugees in the water . Sure it would be nice to save all 1 million , but we can only fit 50 people . Are we evil people cause we only saved 50 ? even if saving 51 will sink the boat ?
I was saying it before we closed the boarder , Sweden cant / shouldn't take in more people . Alot in this thread said we would be fine and about a week later Sweden closed its borders cause we couldnt take in more
And sure Im not Sweden BUT I live in Sweden and pay taxes in Sweden . To a government I voted for . The green party is part of the ruling government and has a say in what happens in Sweden .
And where is Alan from ?
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I knew you wouldn't understand. My point was that just because Denmark is a welfare state doesn't mean that their polices against the refugees don't smack of fascism, hence my parallel with the fascist welfare state.
I never called you a Nazi, but you definitely support fascist ideas. You also seem to have a very narrow understanding of fascism, and seem incapable of seeing the big picture, so, as someone mentioned, you are a prime example of a PEGIDA supporter, hence the photo I posted earlier.
You definitely pulled a textbook example of the friend argument. I believe you have Jewish friends, I also believe that you support fascist/racist policies. These are not mutually exclusive. That's why other people in this thread have called you out, too.
And about Tufty, I really don't want to go over this again, but he is right, the global system is controlled by the West, and even capitalists know that it's not just or fair, but you know, profits... And then there are the naive ones like you who think everything is peachy, or that the poor and underdeveloped are like that just because they're lazy or because the local leaders alone are at fault.
I posted this before, but it bears repeating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Wallerstein#The_Modern_World-System
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what is with Europeans and using the word "fascist" as a catch-all for anything politically incorrect?
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I knew you wouldn't understand. My point was that just because Denmark is a welfare state doesn't mean that their polices against the refugees don't smack of fascism, hence my parallel with the fascist welfare state.
I never called you a Nazi, but you definitely support fascist ideas. You also seem to have a very narrow understanding of fascism, and seem incapable of seeing the big picture, so, as someone mentioned, you are a prime example of a PEGIDA supporter, hence the photo I posted earlier.
Its about % isnt it . You cant call the Danish government fascist if they their direction is 99% socialist , but do 1 thing reminiscing of something fascist, Id doesnt make it a fascist goverment . When people bring up fascism and a fascist state you think Italy in the late 30s and early 40s . Mussolini
Im not gonna go in on a political major level about what true facism is and so on . Or argue what true communism is . I care very little about politics in general so Im not gonna read books or long winded web sites
If lets say the Nazi parti had 1 idea of keeping the highways of your country in tip top shape and safe , And I agree with that . That doesnt make me a Nazi , since 99.999999999% of their other ideas I dont support
If you call me a fascist Im gonna dissagre . Im from my understanding a Socialist or Capitalism Socialist . If I might have one or 2 ideas that agree with something in the Fascist Agenda . Still doesnt make me a Fascist
Im sure communism has some good ideas , 1 maybe 10 . If I agree with this it does not make me a Communist
Im not sure who PEGIDA is , Im not a member , I know nothing about them . But Im sure we can find something in their political agenda even you Alan would agree on . That dont make you a PEGIDA future member does it ? And I cant call you a supporter of them cause you agree with one or two points
you definitely pulled a textbook example of the friend argument. I believe you have Jewish friends, I also believe that you support fascist/racist policies. These are not mutually exclusive. That's why other people in this thread have called you out, too.
So whats my defence here ? first time Tufty called me a Nazi , I said no , Second time he called me a Nazi , I explained my political views .
The third time I got called a Nazi . I Explain its impossible for me to be a Nazi , I have friends who are jewish , Ive had a girlfriend who was Jewish. Ive been to Israel and Tel Aviv multiple times . And then you accuse me for using the friend defence ?
What more can I say to defend myself ? Should I lie or not bring up that It would be imposable for me to be a Nazi or Anti Semite ?
Its like accusing somebody of being a homophone , and then refuse to accept and claim he is using the friend defence , when he is gay
and has gay friends , and is married to somebody who is gay
I want your Advice here Alan , next time somebody randomly accuses me of being a Nazi , even after Ive said No , explained my political views , and explains things about my social life with jewish people
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So for Garth Marenghi
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So your grandparents have a history with jews and you have jewish friends. Sure, guess that works as a refute to being called a racist. Supporting Israel and it's policies (to some degree you're not willing to explain, just not zealously?) is understandable, too. It's just that your "I'm not a racist but..." approach to this discussion is bewildering.
Im not sure if you are trolling , But I used it as a explanation and then wrote 2 times more that it was a defence of being called a Nazi . Not sure why you bring it up as a defence for not being racist . What race am I supposed to be racist against ? Syria and Afghanistan is not a race
Sweden is not a race
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What I asked though was the reason behind your personal detachment from human beings in a dire situation. You are not the whole country of Sweden (Tufty not Greece, Alan certainly not the UK considering he's not from there...) nor am I questioning your ability to be empathic. Inability to relate on the other hand...
Well where does it end ? Ive brought up Africa many times in this thread . Should Sweden rescue all the people in need in Africa ? what about Asia ? Many live in horrible conditions in Asia . Many live with war in the Middle east ? Do you feel attached to all these people ?.
Imagine Sweden is a boat . it can fit 50 people , or lets say 50 refugees . Now there is about 1 million refugees in the water . Sure it would be nice to save all 1 million , but we can only fit 50 people . Are we evil people cause we only saved 50 ? even if saving 51 will sink the boat ?
I was saying it before we closed the boarder , Sweden cant / shouldn't take in more people . Alot in this thread said we would be fine and about a week later Sweden closed its borders cause we couldnt take in more
And sure Im not Sweden BUT I live in Sweden and pay taxes in Sweden . To a government I voted for . The green party is part of the ruling government and has a say in what happens in Sweden .
Honestly forgot to modify an important missing word in there earlier. Sorry about that. I'm not claiming you to be a nazi, just to be clear. Would you prefer that people politically correctly said that you're somewhat prejudiced?
You're going on and on with the same rhetoric while dodging or not understanding the actual questions I'm asking. You're also fucking reaching with that 50 to 1000000 odds, despite how metaphorical of an example you're trying to give.
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I knew you wouldn't understand. My point was that just because Denmark is a welfare state doesn't mean that their polices against the refugees don't smack of fascism, hence my parallel with the fascist welfare state.
I never called you a Nazi, but you definitely support fascist ideas. You also seem to have a very narrow understanding of fascism, and seem incapable of seeing the big picture, so, as someone mentioned, you are a prime example of a PEGIDA supporter, hence the photo I posted earlier.
Its about % isnt it . You cant call the Danish government fascist if they their direction is 99% socialist , but do 1 thing reminiscing of something fascist, Id doesnt make it a fascist goverment . When people bring up fascism and a fascist state I, Monty think Italy in the late 30s and early 40s . Mussolini
Im not gonna go in on a political major level about what true facism is and so on . Or argue what true communism is . I care very little about politics in general so Im not gonna read books or long winded web sites
If lets say the Nazi parti had 1 idea of keeping the highways of your country in tip top shape and safe , And I agree with that . That doesnt make me a Nazi , since 99.999999999% of their other ideas I dont support
If you call me a fascist Im gonna dissagre . Im from my understanding a Socialist or Capitalism Socialist . If I might have one or 2 ideas that agree with something in the Fascist Agenda . Still doesnt make me a Fascist
Im sure communism has some good ideas , 1 maybe 10 . If I agree with this it does not make me a Communist
Im not sure who PEGIDA is , Im not a member , I know nothing about them . But Im sure we can find something in their political agenda even you Alan would agree on . That dont make you a PEGIDA future member does it ? And I cant call you a supporter of them cause you agree with one or two points
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you definitely pulled a textbook example of the friend argument. I believe you have Jewish friends, I also believe that you support fascist/racist policies. These are not mutually exclusive. That's why other people in this thread have called you out, too.
So whats my defence here ? first time Tufty called me a Nazi , I said no , Second time he called me a Nazi , I explained my political views .
The third time I got called a Nazi . I Explain its impossible for me to be a Nazi , I have friends who are jewish , Ive had a girlfriend who was Jewish. Ive been to Israel and Tel Aviv multiple times . And then you accuse me for using the friend defence ?
What more can I say to defend myself ? Should I lie or not bring up that It would be imposable for me to be a Nazi or Anti Semite ?
Its like accusing somebody of being a homophone , and then refuse to accept and claim he is using the friend defence , when he is gay
and has gay friends , and is married to somebody who is gay
I want your Advice here Alan , next time somebody randomly accuses me of being a Nazi , even after Ive said No , explained my political views , and explains things about my social life with jewish people
Fixed it. Your intuitive percents and numbers are a pretty fallible source of information then, wouldn't you agree?
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Honestly forgot to modify an important missing word in there earlier. Sorry about that. I'm not claiming you to be a nazi, just to be clear.
Would you prefer that people politically correctly said that you're somewhat prejudiced?
This might be a english issue but are you not basicly calling me a nazi again ? " Look I wont call you a nazi , lets call you something ells "
Basicly , "Hey I wont call you a whore , lets call you a bitch in stead "?
And being a human being I would pretty much be called anything but a Nazi since its one of the worst things you can be called
Why not just call me Monty , Monty who depending on the issue has political views to the right and to the left and in the middle
You're going on and on with the same rhetoric while dodging or not understanding the actual questions I'm asking.
You're also fucking reaching with that 50 to 1000000 odds, despite how metaphorical of an example you're trying to give
I understood and answered your question . Im saying Sweden is saving alot of people , more then many other countries put together . But we cant save all of them ,
cause its gonna affect Sweden to a degree where we would need to be saved ourselves
And why nitpick on small things like the numbers ? you expect me to figure out how many people around the world would need to be rescued from political , social , environmental ,
health , war situations ? I just wanted to make a quick example of how I view things
Fixed it. Your intuitive percents and numbers are a pretty fallible source of information then, wouldn't you agree?
No , cause every time I do specific numbers or quote somebody I future the news article and source . The reason to I disagree that Denmark is a
Fascist State is cause I cant find any official or or normal source that it is a fascist state
What government or politician has claimed that Denmark is a fascist state ? .
Denmark has a multi-party system, with two strong parties, and four or five other significant parties. No single party has held an absolute majority in the Folketing
since the beginning of the 20th century.[1] Since only four post-war coalition governments have enjoyed a majority, government bills rarely become law without negotiations and
compromise with both supporting and opposition parties. Hence the Folketing tends to be more powerful than legislatures in other EU countries. The Constitution does not grant the judiciary
power of judicial review of legislation, however the courts have asserted this power with the consent of the other branches of government. Since there are no constitutional or administrative
courts, the Supreme Court deals with a constitutional dimension.
So yes there might be a fascist party in the government , but does that mean the majority of seats are fascist ? .
Unless they are you cant call the Danish government a fascist government over a few votes , over a few laws or ideas
I dont have to understand all things in the government or all political parties . I can listen to people smarter then me and who works with this and get the facts .
I can ask people who work in media and politics , Hey is Denmark a fascist country ?
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Honestly forgot to modify an important missing word in there earlier. Sorry about that. I'm not claiming you to be a nazi, just to be clear.
Would you prefer that people politically correctly said that you're somewhat prejudiced?
This might be a english issue but are you not basicly calling me a nazi again ? " Look I wont call you a nazi , lets call you something ells "
Basicly , "Hey I wont call you a whore , lets call you a bitch in stead "?
And being a human being I would pretty much be called anything but a Nazi since its one of the worst things you can be called
Why not just call me Monty , Monty who depending on the issue has political views to the right and to the left and in the middle
Something definitely gets lost in translation then, yes. At no point have I said you're a nazi.
Putting the whole topic at hand aside, you honestly can't think that you're not prejudiced to some degree? There isn't a single adult human being in the world who isn't. Being a racist isn't synonymous with being prejudiced, you must understand that?
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You're going on and on with the same rhetoric while dodging or not understanding the actual questions I'm asking.
You're also fucking reaching with that 50 to 1000000 odds, despite how metaphorical of an example you're trying to give
I understood and answered your question . Im saying Sweden is saving alot of people , more then many other countries put together . But we cant save all of them ,
cause its gonna affect Sweden to a degree where we would need to be saved ourselves
And why nitpick on small things like the numbers ? you expect me to figure out how many people around the world would need to be rescued from political , social , environmental ,
health , war situations ? I just wanted to make a quick example of how I view things
You obviously didn't. We're aware of what Sweden is doing and it's still not what I asked.
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Fixed it. Your intuitive percents and numbers are a pretty fallible source of information then, wouldn't you agree?
No , cause every time I do specific numbers or quote somebody I future the news article and source . The reason to I disagree that Denmark is a
Fascist State is cause I cant find any official or or normal source that it is a fascist state
What government or politician has claimed that Denmark is a fascist state ? .
Yet you brush aside other shared information with a "Yeah I don't care for books or politics." What a double standard.
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Denmark has a multi-party system, with two strong parties, and four or five other significant parties. No single party has held an absolute majority in the Folketing
since the beginning of the 20th century.[1] Since only four post-war coalition governments have enjoyed a majority, government bills rarely become law without negotiations and
compromise with both supporting and opposition parties. Hence the Folketing tends to be more powerful than legislatures in other EU countries. The Constitution does not grant the judiciary
power of judicial review of legislation, however the courts have asserted this power with the consent of the other branches of government. Since there are no constitutional or administrative
courts, the Supreme Court deals with a constitutional dimension.
So yes there might be a fascist party in the government , but does that mean the majority of seats are fascist ? .
Unless they are you cant call the Danish government a fascist government over a few votes , over a few laws or ideas
I dont have to understand all things in the government or all political parties . I can listen to people smarter then me and who works with this and get the facts .
I can ask people who work in media and politics , Hey is Denmark a fascist country ?
I'm not exactly qualified to chime in on Danish politics or Denmark's political system, maybe Alan or Tufty can properly respond to this. If your view of fascism is Mussolini's Italy in the 30s and you gather proper information by just asking people (Is that tabloid media and/or getting it straight from the horse's mouth?), neither are you. It's acceptable to acknowledge this.
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Putting the whole topic at hand aside, you honestly can't think that you're not prejudiced to some degree? There isn't a single adult human being in the world who isn't. Being a racist isn't synonymous with being prejudiced, you must understand that?
If you believe all adult human being in the world have prejudiced , why ask me if Im prejudiced ? . And Im not defending if Im prejudice or not . Im defending not being Racist , Fascist , Nazi , Right wing or a member of PEGIDA
You obviously didn't. We're aware of what Sweden is doing and it's still not what I asked.
Just ask the question again then
Yet you brush aside other shared information with a "Yeah I don't care for books or politics." What a double standard.
Theres a huge difference between me posting a quote from a story and then sharing the link . Then having to read a book about political science and understanding sudden nuances of communism and fascism . Or listening to a lecture about it
I post something to show my point , and share the link so nobody can say I made it up . If you google "Fascism " you can find a few defections about what fascism is . But if you want to understand small nuances and suddle details you have to read books . Ask people who know alot on the issue
Tufty tells me Im a nazi , I say no , He calls me a nazi again , should the second time make me question my political ideologies and have to go read books about Nazi ideologies ? No I know enough about Nazis to know Im not a nazi
Alan tells me Im fascist / have fascist views . I post the definition of what a fascist is . And instead of giving me a explanation why he thinks im a fascist , with facts . He just say go read this , go read that
I'm not exactly qualified to chime in on Danish politics or Denmark's political system, maybe Alan or Tufty can properly respond to this. If your view of fascism is Mussolini's Italy in the 30s and you gather proper information by just asking people (Is that tabloid media and/or getting it straight from the horse's mouth?), neither are you. It's acceptable to acknowledge this.
Im no expert on Denmark or swedes governments either . When did I claim that ? . But you can easy look at what parties have powers in those governments . How many % do the different parties control ? how many seats do those parties have ?
Which of those parties claim to be Fascist , Socialist , Communist , and so on . Left , center , Right wing .
If the Fascist Party in Denmark had 10% of the government and the rest was Socialist parties . Does that make Denmark a country ruled By fascists ?
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Alan
Sure Ill look into it abit more . But just like I said . You are backing Tufty , who hates the west , who hates corporation . Who think all that is evil in this world is the west and corporation . Who thinks its modern slavery and the reason of millions of deaths
but is currently applying for a job at a major corporation . If you dont realize what kind of traitor to his cause and scum tufty is .
And did you really try to use " Im not a XXX . my friend is a XXX " against me ? . You really think Im a nazi and Im lying about having
lived in Tel Aviv , having a jewish gf , or having jewish friends ? At the start of these threads we all agreed to have a nice calm
discussion . And now you are pulling shit like that ?
So for Everybody
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Fascist
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
How does Sweden , Denmark or me fit under this label ? I vote for the Green Party in sweden every 4 years . I back high taxes to assist social programs in sweden and I think high taxation helps the country . Im for 4 year elections . Im for the EU and for being able to move across
the EU and get a job where you want .
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Nazi
a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, which controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler and advocated totalitarian government, territorial expansion, anti-Semitism, and Aryan supremacy, all these leading directly to World War II and the Holocaust.
Im not a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party and I wasnt even alive in 1933 or 1945 . I dont agree with a
totalitarian government , Im not suggesting Sweden should expand its territories , Im not a Anti Semite or promoting Aryan Supremacy
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Neo Nazi
a person who belongs to a political organization whose beliefs are inspired by or reminiscent of Nazism.
Well I dont believe in any of the old nazi belives , so I cant believe in neo nazi values either
I hope that clears some stuff up . Ive lived and worked in 8 countries for the past 10 years , I work as a chef so Ive worked and been friends
of chefs from maybe 20+ countries of every race and every religion .
So for Garth Marenghi
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So your grandparents have a history with jews and you have jewish friends. Sure, guess that works as a refute to being a racist. Supporting Israel and it's policies (to some degree you're not willing to explain, just not zealously?) is understandable, too. It's just that your "I'm not a racist but..." approach to this discussion is bewildering.
Im not sure if you are trolling , But I used it as a explanation and then wrote 2 times more that it was a defence of being called a Nazi . Not sure why you bring it up as a defence for not being racist . What race am I supposed to be racist against ? Syria and Afghanistan is not a race
Sweden is not a race
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What I asked though was the reason behind your personal detachment from human beings in a dire situation. You are not the whole country of Sweden (Tufty not Greece, Alan certainly not the UK considering he's not from there...) nor am I questioning your ability to be empathic. Inability to relate on the other hand...
Well where does it end ? Ive brought up Africa many times in this thread . Should Sweden rescue all the people in need in Africa ? what about Asia ? Many live in horrible conditions in Asia . Many live with war in the Middle east ? Do you feel attached to all these people ?.
Imagine Sweden is a boat . it can fit 50 people , or lets say 50 refugees . Now there is about 1 million refugees in the water . Sure it would be nice to save all 1 million , but we can only fit 50 people . Are we evil people cause we only saved 50 ? even if saving 51 will sink the boat ?
I was saying it before we closed the boarder , Sweden cant / shouldn't take in more people . Alot in this thread said we would be fine and about a week later Sweden closed its borders cause we couldnt take in more
And sure Im not Sweden BUT I live in Sweden and pay taxes in Sweden . To a government I voted for . The green party is part of the ruling government and has a say in what happens in Sweden .
And where is Alan from ?
i am greek and have lived in the uk for a few years and have seen how life is there (and europe in general). i can now make my comparisons between corporation presence in europe and corporation presence in greece. i grew up in a society where most people owned their own businesses and generally hired local people for other jobs and everything went fine. people were bosses of themselves or had someone they knew personally as boss. recent governments (past 40 years) have made my country go bankrupt so that what i described earlier could change. they introduced big corpos (canadian mining companies, dutch brewing companies, american/french energy groups, the works) and made life for all small local businesses hell. having lived in a society like the british where everyone is an "emploee" and has to wear a suit all day, take urine tests and report to some tosser manager, where nothing is excused by "the system"i too have come to really hate corporations and "the west" even though i am a part of it. now, apart from talking shit in internet forums i also have to feed myself. instead of working for a big corporation in greece (with pityful wages - around 600e/month for an engineer who now has to pay about 1000e/month for his licence, i know it doesnt make sense but this how fucked and corrupt the greek government is) i would 100% prefer to work for a corporation in the uk for triple the money. like Tufty, i too hate the corpos, although i dig the nice life that western living offers. i am no taliban, but if some foreign bankster invades my area and tries to pollute it by operating a goldmine then i would be of the first people to go burn the fucking thing down. Monty, hating corpos is a good thing. you have just not lived life without them being present and probably cant do without a coke a day.
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i am greek and have lived in the uk for a few years and have seen how life is there (and europe in general). i can now make my comparisons between corporation presence in europe and corporation presence in greece. i grew up in a society where most people owned their own businesses and generally hired local people for other jobs and everything went fine. people were bosses of themselves or had someone they knew personally as boss. recent governments (past 40 years) have made my country go bankrupt so that what i described earlier could change. they introduced big corpos (canadian mining companies, dutch brewing companies, american/french energy groups, the works) and made life for all small local businesses hell. having lived in a society like the british where everyone is an "emploee" and has to wear a suit all day, take urine tests and report to some tosser manager, where nothing is excused by "the system"i too have come to really hate corporations and "the west" even though i am a part of it. now, apart from talking shit in internet forums i also have to feed myself. instead of working for a big corporation in greece (with pityful wages - around 600e/month for an engineer who now has to pay about 1000e/month for his licence, i know it doesnt make sense but this how fucked and corrupt the greek government is) i would 100% prefer to work for a corporation in the uk for triple the money. like Tufty, i too hate the corpos, although i dig the nice life that western living offers. i am no taliban, but if some foreign bankster invades my area and tries to pollute it by operating a goldmine then i would be of the first people to go burn the fucking thing down. Monty, hating corpos is a good thing. you have just not lived life without them being present and probably cant do without a coke a day.
The only people in Britain that are required to take urine tests are police and military or other security services. Maybe heavy machinery operators but definitely not your everyday office employees. Also my wife is self employed as are many of my friends some of which are business owners or freelance contractors. My best friend is an engineer and has never worn a suit to work a day in his life. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with these comments.
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Monty, like I said before, you fail to see the big picture. You should have opened up a thread called "I want refugees out of Sweden" instead of "Refugee Crisis in Europe," because that's obviously the only thing you care about. On top of that, if you don't care much about politics and refuse to educate yourself, then why the fuck are you participating in a political discussion? You're the Doug Brown of this thread.
I avoid most heated debates on here, but because this isn't a lighthearted topic, I can't ignore the xenophobe, racist ideas you keep repeating. You can't say stuff like that and then claim ignorance.
So yes there might be a fascist party in the government , but does that mean the majority of seats are fascist ? .
Unless they are you cant call the Danish government a fascist government over a few votes , over a few laws or ideas
This is what I'm talking about. You seriously don't see a problem in that a fascist party is part of a European government and is influencing it's decisions? If you don't, well, then you support it. And just because someone doesn't call themselves fascist doesn't mean they aren't. You really don't have to be a genius to see that. The same goes for policies by other governments. If it looks like a duck, etc...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/22/opinion/denmarks-far-right-kingmakers.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/22/opinion/denmarks-far-right-kingmakers.html?_r=0) (A really short text!)
Denmark has not been taken by dark forces. But it has come under the spell of a nationalistic form of welfare populism and D.P.P. politicians who stage-manage the other right-wing parties.
Precisely what I was talking about when I mentioned fascism and the welfare state.
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Esquivel
Monty, hating corpos is a good thing. you have just not lived life without them being present and probably cant do without a coke a day.
My issue isnt with corpos . I cant claim to love them and I know many times some of them are not ethical and so on . But Im against forcing to have their factories where the government tells them to . I dont think they should move factories to cheaper countries , I think its better to support the country you come from . But if X company wants to manufacture things in Y country I dont think we should be able to stop them
My Issue is with tufty . He is a hypocrite . He hates the system , hates corpos , hates the USA . He thinks they are responsible for everything thats wrong with the world today . Yet he wants to join the system and join corpos
Thats like Hating USA foreign policy and think their military is murderers , and then join the US army cause you want to take advantage of the college benefits you will get
Monty, like I said before, you fail to see the big picture. You should have opened up a thread called "I want refugees out of Sweden" instead of "Refugee Crisis in Europe," because that's obviously the only thing you care about. On top of that, if you don't care much about politics and refuse to educate yourself, then why the fuck are you participating in a political discussion? You're the Doug Brown of this thread.
I didnt start this thread , Tufty did . And why do you think its weird Im talking about refugees in a thread about refugees ? , Ive said multiple times I think Sweden and Europe is taking in too many refugees , Im not just talking about Sweden .
even if I jokingly say Im not that interested in politics , do you really think so ? We have spent about 9 pages talking about this .
I keep replying cause I think its interesting
Im kinda disappointed in That you cant discuss things in a calm manner , without trying to insult me . I mean you think you are
right and Im wrong . Then why call me things like doug brown ?
Dont you think showing me good examples and giving me more in-depth explanations is a better way to educate somebody
then hurling insults at them ?
This is what I'm talking about. You seriously don't see a problem in that a fascist party is part of a European government and is influencing it's decisions? If you don't, well, then you support it. And just because someone doesn't call themselves fascist doesn't mean they aren't. You really don't have to be a genius to see that. The same goes for policies by other governments. If it looks like a duck, etc...
Which is the fascist party ? And how are they fascist ? I see they are right wing , but dont think it said fascist anywhere in that text ?
By European standards the party is relatively moderate, and it has been running on a strong welfare platform, promising to protect those dependent on state subsidies. Leading members of the party like to portray it as a modern version of the Social Democrats who ran the country
This is from the " Opinion Pages " of the NY Times . Is this written by somebody who works at NY Times or is it a editorial by somebody in denmark who wrote a piece for the new york times ?
nationalistic form of welfare populism
This is a english issue cause wtf does that mean ? A nation where welfare is popular ? . Isnt that more socialism ?
If you want to call the Danish or Swedish fascist , communist or socialist . Give more examples . I dont think that article is convincing that the Danish government is fascist . For one thing that reporter was blasting Denmark pretty hard for going to a darker side , being more right wing then left wing , But not once did he say or indicate it was turning fascist
I mean a right wing party in Sweden like Moderaterna , which is kind of like the Republicans (USA) in sweden . But Moderaterna is far more
to the center or left then The Republicans . Right wing doesnt automatic mean fascist does it ?
and since you didnt answer the last question Ill repeat it
you definitely pulled a textbook example of the friend argument. I believe you have Jewish friends, I also believe that you support fascist/racist policies. These are not mutually exclusive. That's why other people in this thread have called you out, too.
So whats my defence here ? first time Tufty called me a Nazi , I said no , Second time he called me a Nazi , I explained my political views .
The third time I got called a Nazi . I Explain its impossible for me to be a Nazi , I have friends who are jewish , Ive had a girlfriend who was Jewish. Ive been to Israel and Tel Aviv multiple times . And then you accuse me for using the friend defence ?
What more can I say to defend myself ? Should I lie or not bring up that It would be imposable for me to be a Nazi or Anti Semite ?
Its like accusing somebody of being a homophone , and then refuse to accept and claim he is using the friend defence , when he is gay
and has gay friends , and is married to somebody who is gay
I want your Advice here Alan , next time somebody randomly accuses me of being a Nazi , even after Ive said No , explained my political views , and explains things about my social life with jewish people
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If someone writes a book in a forum about not being a Nazi, chances are that he is.
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You do keep talking about Sweden, as an example of the massive refugee problem in Europe, but again this is where your ignorance shines through. Everyone here agrees that Sweden takes in more refugees than other countries, proportionally speaking. Is it really that hard to find info on absolute refugee numbers in Europe? Is it hard to understand that just because Sweden is "full," doesn't mean that Europe is, too?
even if I jokingly say Im not that interested in politics , do you really think so ? We have spent about 9 pages talking about this .
I keep replying cause I think its interesting
Oh, so you were also joking about not wanting to educate yourself in politics or history? You think this is an interesting topic, and you get your info from tabloids. I guess you have a specific sense of humour:
This is a english issue cause wtf does that mean ? A nation where welfare is popular ? . Isnt that more socialism ?
And just because someone doesn't call themselves fascist doesn't mean they aren't. You really don't have to be a genius to see that. The same goes for policies by other governments. If it looks like a duck, etc...
Which is the fascist party ? And how are they fascist ? I see they are right wing , but dont think it said fascist anywhere in that text ?
You're such a joker!
Im kinda disappointed in That you cant discuss things in a calm manner , without trying to insult me . I mean you think you are
right and Im wrong . Then why call me things like doug brown ?
That's not an insult, that's a comparison. And I'm disappointed that someone who claims to be tolerant and liberal wants to kick out refugees from Europe or take away their possessions if they decide to stay.
So whats my defence here ? first time Tufty called me a Nazi , I said no , Second time he called me a Nazi , I explained my political views .
The third time I got called a Nazi . I Explain its impossible for me to be a Nazi , I have friends who are jewish , Ive had a girlfriend who was Jewish. Ive been to Israel and Tel Aviv multiple times . And then you accuse me for using the friend defence ?
Did I call you a Nazi? No. I said that you use the friend argument throughout this topic. It's not a complicated concept:
It is commonly used to clear and absolve oneself from suspicion of racism, xenophobia or other kinds of prejudice. It is a particular form of the "Not prejudiced, but..." statement.
You claim that you have friends with different ethnic and cultural backgrounds, that you have traveled the world and lived in several countries, and they you want to kick out refugees. You might not realize it, but yes, you are using the friend argument.
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The EU population is about 500 million. A million refugees entered Europe last year. I am sure that a large number will be deported, and that a large number of the refugees will contribute to the economy. And Monty thinks that Europe, the world's wealthiest continent, can't handle this.
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Monty, hating corpos is a good thing. you have just not lived life without them being present and probably cant do without a coke a day.
My issue isnt with corpos . I cant claim to love them and I know many times some of them are not ethical and so on . But Im against forcing to have their factories where the government tells them to . I dont think they should move factories to cheaper countries , I think its better to support the country you come from . But if X company wants to manufacture things in Y country I dont think we should be able to stop them
My Issue is with tufty . He is a hypocrite . He hates the system , hates corpos , hates the USA . He thinks they are responsible for everything thats wrong with the world today . Yet he wants to join the system and join corpos
Thats like Hating USA foreign policy and think their military is murderers , and then join the US army cause you want to take advantage of the college benefits you will get
Your comparisons are as equally out there as Tufty's responses are frothy.
I'm not familiar with Tufty's job hunt situation but assume the opportunities in Greece aren't exactly plentiful. I don't know what he would prefer to do but probably not work for a corporation. But he can definitely explain it himself if he wants to.
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Oh, so you were also joking about not wanting to educate yourself in politics or history? You think this is an interesting topic, and you get your info from tabloids. I guess you have a specific sense of humour
Clearly , Ive asked multiple times that you tell me more about fascism since you dont think my definition of fascism is the correct one
And for the tabloids . If there is a bank robbery , there are witnesses and there is a police report , does it matter if i choose the daily mirror or the NY times ?
What about the example with the Rapes at the Swedish festival . DN ( respectable swedish paper ) Didnt report on it . But Expressen ( tabloid ) was part of the wave that broke the news that Swedish police and DN covering up and not reporting on the rapes
You're such a joker!
You didnt answer my question , Which is the fascist party ? And how are they fascist ? I see they are right wing , but dont think it said fascist anywhere in that text ?
The link you sent with the story from the NY times has the reporter calling the party and government . Right , Far right . But he never used the word fascist . Theres no reason to why he would have held back on the word Fascist
That's not an insult, that's a comparison. And I'm disappointed that someone who claims to be tolerant and liberal wants to kick out refugees from Europe or take away their possessions if they decide to stay.
Youre telling me calling somebody doug brown is not a insult ? how is it a comparison ? what are mine and doug browns common grounds ?
And Im not sure Ive ever called my self liberal or tolorant ? . Ive called my self socialist ,
Did I call you a Nazi? No. I said that you use the friend argument throughout this topic. It's not a complicated concept:
You claim that you have friends with different ethnic and cultural backgrounds, that you have traveled the world and lived in several countries, and they you want to kick out refugees. You might not realize it, but yes, you are using the friend argument.
First of all you didnt answer my question . What is my defence when somebody calls me a Nazi ? or homophobe
If I say no , and get called it again . If declair my views . and get called it again . And when I explain my social interactions
I get told Im using the friend defence
How ?
Second of all do you doubt Im a chef ? do you know anything about how the catering /service world works ?? that its one of the most divers businesses with people from around the world , of all colours and religions working at hotels and restaurants ?
Being a refugee and a skilled worker is not the same . In the countries I worked that were none EU , I had to fill in VISA applications and so did my employers . I went to school to become a chef and either I had the job before I entered the country or I got the job 2 weeks of living in the country
I entered the country with a purpose of getting a job and paid tax within 1 month of being in the country
The EU population is about 500 million. A million refugees entered Europe last year. I am sure that a large number will be deported, and that a large number of the refugees will contribute to the economy. And Monty thinks that Europe, the world's wealthiest continent, can't handle this.
Cologne has a population of about 1 million people . During the New years about 1000 people brought the city to a stand still . The mayor of the city went out and told women not to go out alone , to stay a arms lenght away from Men . The police cheif got fired or resigned . over 500 complaints of sexual assult , rape and assaults There were huge demonstrations . Later followed by assaults , And shops , restaurants and other businesses destroyed
angela merkels support is dropping , and Germany has dramaticy changed its policy of accepting refugees . They are even trying to change deportation laws
This was 1000 people out of 1 million . or 1000 people of 80 million ( German population ) And its changing peoples mind about whos the Chancellor of Germany , how many refugees comes in and the laws of germany
In november 9 terrorist from ISIS attacked Paris . This led to France deciding to put their Air Force and possibly Special Forces / Navy to Start bombing Syria and Iraq
Now how many people did you say had come into Europe ? 1 million ? ...
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Do you even read my posts? Can you even read with understanding?
When I offered to point you to the relevant literature, you declined.
You want people to constantly explain things to you like you're a 3 year old, and when they do you still don't get it or get hung up on details.
And just because someone doesn't call themselves fascist doesn't mean they aren't. You really don't have to be a genius to see that. The same goes for policies by other governments. If it looks like a duck, etc...
Calling you Doug Brown was a compliment.
Why are you asking me about something Tufty said? Very well, just admit that you have xenophobic views, but that you aren't an actual Nazi from from 1919-1945.
Now how many people did you say had come into Europe ? 1 million ? ...
So your point is that there are a million potential terrorist in Europe right now? That's not racist at all!
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I just came in here to say that it only just hit me how ironic it is, that saying things like 'we should take in all refugees' is reputed to be PC, while pointing out the problems of mass immigration is supposedly politically incorrect. When you really think about it, it's the opposite.
It's actually preposterous, the way western Europe is dealing with refugees, trying to store them in the cheapest possible way, and discussing whether handing them more than bread, bed and bath serves as an incentive for more of them to come over here. We have plenty of money, literally loads of it, and we could take in many many more without problem, providing them with proper housing and integration programs. We are skimming on what is arguably the most worthwhile and directly influential of all our humanitarian efforts, and justify it with scare tactic rhetorics. We can and ought to take in many more, and we should invest money into our immigrants.
Isn't that really the politically incorrect thing to say?
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I just came in here to say that it only just hit me how ironic it is, that saying things like 'we should take in all refugees' are reputed to be PC, while pointing out the problems of mass immigration is supposedly politically incorrect. When you really think about it, it's the opposite.
It's actually preposterous, the way western Europe is dealing with refugees, trying to store them in the cheapest possible way, and discussing whether handing them more than bread, bed and bath serves as an incentive for more of them to come over here. We have plenty of money, literally loads of it, and we could take in many many more without problem, providing them with proper housing and integration programs. We are skimming on what is arguably the most worthwhile and directly influential of all our humanitarian efforts, and justify it with scare tactic rhetorics. We can and ought to take in many more, and we should invest money into our immigrants.
Isn't that really the politically incorrect thing to say?
Agree the problem is this
(https://mathemagicalsite.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/monkey-business1.jpg)
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Do you even read my posts? Can you even read with understanding?
When I offered to point you to the relevant literature, you declined.
You want people to constantly explain things to you like you're a 3 year old, and when they do you still don't get it or get hung up on details.
You are asking me if I can read with understanding ? yet you cant answer simple questions without sending me to vague articles that dont use political terms you claim there are insinuating
Who is the Fascist party ? why are they Fascist ? Why didnt the journalist use the word fascist ? . Hes writing a article which paints Denmark in very bad light , using words like Right , Far Right . But he calls them moderate compared to other right moments and never once calls them fascist in the articla . Yet you claim they are fascist
Why are you asking me about something Tufty said? Very well, just admit that you have xenophobic views, but that you aren't an actual Nazi from from 1919-1945.
I cant ask you for advice ? your not a human being ? you want to help million of refugees with food , housing , jobs , welfare but you cant even help a guy asking for advice ? . And as I said
First I said , Im not a nazi , then I explain my political views . And then I explained my social situation . And then I get called a nazi again and you accuse me of using the friend defence
So your point is that there are a million potential terrorist in Europe right now? That's not racist at all!
You totally missed my point . You say 1 million people wont effect Europe . You say 1 million wont make a difference in Europe
Yet I give you two examples where 9 people , where 1000 people made a huge effect on Europe , where they made a difference in Europe
Terrorist have a race ? which race is that ? . Refugees have a race ? what race is that ? thats pretty racist dude
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Ok, either I am being trolled or ice nine was right.
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Do you even read my posts? Can you even read with understanding?
When I offered to point you to the relevant literature, you declined.
You want people to constantly explain things to you like you're a 3 year old, and when they do you still don't get it or get hung up on details.
You are asking me if I can read with understanding ? yet you cant answer simple questions without sending me to vague articles that dont use political terms you claim there are insinuating
Who is the Fascist party ? why are they Fascist ? Why didnt the journalist use the word fascist ? . Hes writing a article which paints Denmark in very bad light , using words like Right , Far Right . But he calls them moderate compared to other right moments and never once calls them fascist in the articla . Yet you claim they are fascist.
The D.P.P is the party with fascist overtones. Their politics are a nationalistic form of welfare populism (which is pretty damn close to national socialism). They don't need (nor would it be politically wise or sane in general) to don a uniform to fit the bill, you know. The writer probably didn't use the word fascist because he's a journalist with integrity and seems to understand general media conduct well enough not to lose a job over one article. It's there though, just not spelled out I'm afraid. Are you sure you read and understood the article?
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So your point is that there are a million potential terrorist in Europe right now? That's not racist at all!
You totally missed my point . You say 1 million people wont effect Europe . You say 1 million wont make a difference in Europe
Yet I give you two examples where 9 people , where 1000 people made a huge effect on Europe , where they made a difference in Europe
Terrorist have a race ? which race is that ? . Refugees have a race ? what race is that ? thats pretty racist dude
You're jumping again. Are you saying the weight is too much from the social or economical standpoint? Because you're clutching at straws here and there based on what people reply to you.
That last paragraph of loaded questions is so stupid that I honestly don't know what to say.
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Fascism is not bad crazy people with swastikas coming to power. Fascism is system failing for people (and they acknowledge that) and the elites have to preserve it even with unethical moves. Something that the west won't admit is that supercorporations and banks of Germany wanted Hitler, in order to preserve their power in an unstable Germany, and not the people who later were convinced by the mechanisms of propaganda of Third Reich that were funded by the same exact supercorps and banks (and not only German ones). On the Contrary the West Just blames Crazy hitler that made magic to Germans and came into power magically. Capitalism keeps its fascism out of the west mostly so its citizens live in a bubble, however in periods of crisis fascism becomes imminent even in West.
As EU becomes unstable wait for more divisive racism, for more unethical moves like depriving refugees shelter and more. Well people who are unethical in order to preserve this bullshit are fascists, like monty. It would be funny to see how many of the values of the foundation of EU are nowadays valid. Democracy? Solidarity? HAhaahAHhahAh
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Well,
https://www.rt.com/news/329055-switzerland-seize-refugees-assets/ (https://www.rt.com/news/329055-switzerland-seize-refugees-assets/)
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Ha! Guess Switzerland is not a tax haven for everyone.
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Fucking assholes keep taking the natives jobs:
https://www.rt.com/news/328583-steven-seagal-serbian-citizenship/ (https://www.rt.com/news/328583-steven-seagal-serbian-citizenship/)
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Temperature in Greece today is at 0 Celsius. Refugees and immigrants are waiting in tents with no heating in order to pass the border at Eidoméni, Kilkis, Greece. Freeze those rapists to death.
(http://i.imgur.com/SWDbfbq.jpg)
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I guess this is related to this topic. If this statistic doesn't make you sick, or you think that "that's just the way it is" or that it's somehow their own fault that they're in the bottom 50% then fuck you.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY-8FVJWwAAJ78d.png
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I thought germany would refrain from this, for obvious reasons. Times are desperate indeed.
https://www.rt.com/news/329736-germany-denmark-refugees-confiscate/ (https://www.rt.com/news/329736-germany-denmark-refugees-confiscate/)
Also headliners like this are very common in Greece.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-says-at-least-21-dead-including-9-children-after-two-migrant-boats-sink-1453457291 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/greece-says-at-least-21-dead-including-9-children-after-two-migrant-boats-sink-1453457291)
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Its nice to see the refugees thanking us for letting them in , warms my heart
Swedish asylum worker, 22, is stabbed to death 'in frenzied attack' at a CHILD migrant centre as refugee boy, 15, is arrested for murder
A 15-year-old asylum seeker living in a refugee centre in Sweden has been arrested on suspicion of murder after an employee at the shelter was fatally stabbed.
Sources say the 15-year-old boy was held down by other employees at the centre until police arrived.
She was taken to Sahlgrenska Hospital but later died of her injuries.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3416343/Sweden-asylum-worker-22-stabbed-death-frenzied-attack-CHILD-migrant-centre-refugee-boy-15-arrested-murder.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3416343/Sweden-asylum-worker-22-stabbed-death-frenzied-attack-CHILD-migrant-centre-refugee-boy-15-arrested-murder.html)
Swedish police warn Stockholm's main train station is now overrun by migrant teen gangs 'stealing and groping girls'
Swedish police warns that Stockholm's main train station has become unsafe after being ‘taken over’ by dozens of Moroccan street children.
The all-male migrant teen gangs are spreading terror in the centre of the Swedish capital, stealing, groping girls and assaulting security guards, according to Stockholm police
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3415477/Swedish-police-warn-Stockholm-s-main-police-station-overrun-migrant-teen-gangs-stealing-groping-girls.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3415477/Swedish-police-warn-Stockholm-s-main-police-station-overrun-migrant-teen-gangs-stealing-groping-girls.html)
Four girls sexually assaulted by ‘young migrants’ while swimming in Sweden
A number of girls have reportedly been sexually assaulted by young male asylum seekers at a public swimming pool in central Stockholm.
The identified alleged perpetrators are all 'unaccompanied minors' - young refugee boys who have arrived in Sweden seeking asylum without a parent or guardian.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3415364/Belgian-mayor-seeks-ban-male-asylum-seekers-pool.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3415364/Belgian-mayor-seeks-ban-male-asylum-seekers-pool.html)
thief PUNCHES mother in the face and spits on her in front of her young children after she stops him stealing from an elderly woman
This is the moment a thief attacks a mother in front of her two children, kicking her in the stomach, hitting her in the face and spitting on her, after she stepped in when he tried to rob a pensioner.
The shocking incident took place in central Stockholm, Sweden, earlier this month and was caught on security cameras.
The attack has caused outrage in Sweden, with the head of the police investigation swearing to catch the perpetrator 'if it's the last thing I do'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410575/Shocking-moment-thief-PUNCHES-mother-face-spits-young-children-stops-stealing-elderly-woman.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3410575/Shocking-moment-thief-PUNCHES-mother-face-spits-young-children-stops-stealing-elderly-woman.html)
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If you post some sources that aren't daily mail, I might actual believe in what they state. You have to look hard to find a worse source than DM...
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If you post some sources that aren't daily mail, I might actual believe in what they state. You have to look hard to find a worse source than DM...
its easier for me to post DM , If I post the Swedish news media sites I have to translate them for you guys
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If you post some sources that aren't daily mail, I might actual believe in what they state. You have to look hard to find a worse source than DM...
its easier for me to post DM , If I post the Swedish news media sites I have to translate them for you guys
DM is just a really shitty news paper.. I do know about the 22 year old who got stabbed by some kid, but rest I haven't seen yet. I don't believe that they are false, but I wouldn't put anything into DM actually getting anything right either...
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If you post some sources that aren't daily mail, I might actual believe in what they state. You have to look hard to find a worse source than DM...
its easier for me to post DM , If I post the Swedish news media sites I have to translate them for you guys
DM is filled with "stock images" next to all the stories
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The Daily Mail may be a piece of shit. But it's also the world's most widely read online news source.
Not sure what that says about the state of our society....
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regardless of DM's reputation, the fact is that they are merely posting the news that originated from sweden. It is vital for everyone to accept that there will be a certain percentage of "bad apples" among the refugees and deal with them accordingly
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regardless of DM's reputation, the fact is that they are merely posting the news that originated from sweden. It is vital for everyone to accept that there will be a certain percentage of "bad apples" among the refugees and deal with them accordingly
Not all refugees are sweet hearts and great people, thats obvious. But we cannot refuse to help them because of some stupid fucks between them. Stupid/bad people exist everywere, not just between refugees like Monty tries to paint.
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regardless of DM's reputation, the fact is that they are merely posting the news that originated from sweden. It is vital for everyone to accept that there will be a certain percentage of "bad apples" among the refugees and deal with them accordingly
Not all refugees are sweet hearts and great people, thats obvious. But we cannot refuse to help them because of some stupid fucks between them. Stupid/bad people exist everywere, not just between refugees like Monty tries to paint.
Sums it up pretty much.
Monty i'd wanna have a constructive debate but after reading all threads related to this I can see you're ONLY willing to see the bad examples and not willing to factor in all other refugees. You've choose your side and no matter what you're not gonna back down (common theme i've seen in social media debates/battles). Nothing personal but there many Europeans PALS who are stating in these threads "yes there some fucked up refugees while the rest are okay".
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It is really inhuman that these people have to go on foot every time they approach the borders of a european state because governments won't help them...
(http://i.imgur.com/gx6ddGP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/si329X2.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2u4aYTg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6I98d80.jpg)
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Pubs and clubs in German town of Freiburg forbid refugees
http://www.dw.com/en/pubs-and-clubs-in-german-town-of-freiburg-forbid-refugees/a-19000800 (http://www.dw.com/en/pubs-and-clubs-in-german-town-of-freiburg-forbid-refugees/a-19000800)
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regardless of DM's reputation, the fact is that they are merely posting the news that originated from sweden. It is vital for everyone to accept that there will be a certain percentage of "bad apples" among the refugees and deal with them accordingly
Not all refugees are sweet hearts and great people, thats obvious. But we cannot refuse to help them because of some stupid fucks between them. Stupid/bad people exist everywere, not just between refugees like Monty tries to paint.
Sums it up pretty much.
Monty i'd wanna have a constructive debate but after reading all threads related to this I can see you're ONLY willing to see the bad examples and not willing to factor in all other refugees. You've choose your side and no matter what you're not gonna back down (common theme i've seen in social media debates/battles). Nothing personal but there many Europeans PALS who are stating in these threads "yes there some fucked up refugees while the rest are okay".
Before the mass influx of refugees from the Iraq / syrian war I was more for helping refugees , and having a discution about how many refugees europe and sweden should take . But all I see now is a huge refugee problems thats going to destroy parts of EU and Sweden .
This is causing massive support to right wing and extreme right wing parties , the schengen agreement is probably going to die , borders are back up . Goverments are falling to pieces . And as failing as integration was before this crisis , its going to get even worse
fulfillthedream
you are right . I dont really see any argument that would change my mind on this subject . I used to be pretty open about accepting refugees . They need help , But after seeing what happens when you do help them . I really dont think we should help them by letting them into the EU . We should help them stay in their own countries . Military intervention and aid programs
I decided awhile ago not to post more in this thread , its not going anywhere , but seeing all those headlines in the span of 1 day really pissed me off , so I posted
Tufty posting images of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria wont change my mind . Why not post pictures of mass pollution ? dolphins being slaughter ? Elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks ? Why not post woman trafficking pictures ? or starving children in Somalia ?
About 2 million kids die world wide from not having clean water . I dont see tufty making threads about that
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Tufty posting images of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria wont change my mind . Why not post pictures of mass pollution ? dolphins being slaughter ? Elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks ? Why not post woman trafficking pictures ? or starving children in Somalia ?
About 2 million kids die world wide from not having clean water . I dont see tufty making threads about that
Well I am not mother Teressa and you should stop using bullshit "arguments" that are popular within fascist groups if you dont wanna be called out the "N" word. I only post whatever I like, however I get a pleasure from posting things that agitate racist cunts. Life is not the bubble europe made for you and I will post even things that disturb you and you cant justify without coming out like a douche. Life is not about our miserable existance and what pleases us deal with it.
I cant justify the situation in Europe and I wont try to like you do. I am ashamed of western civilization and its hypocrisy, you just try to preserve it even by covertly telling me to shut the fuck up. I am ashamed of people like you. Fuck you!
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Tufty posting images of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria wont change my mind . Why not post pictures of mass pollution ? dolphins being slaughter ? Elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks ? Why not post woman trafficking pictures ? or starving children in Somalia ?
About 2 million kids die world wide from not having clean water . I dont see tufty making threads about that
Well I am not mother Teressa and you should stop using bullshit "arguments" that are popular within fascist groups if you dont wanna be called out the "N" word. I only post whatever I like, however I get a pleasure from posting things that agitate racist cunts.
I cant justify the situation in Europe and I wont try to like you do. I am ashamed of western civilization and its hypocrisy, you just try to preserve it even by covertly telling me to shut the fuck up. I am ashamed of people like you. Fuck you!
You know , I dont like you , but now atleast I understand you
You hate yourself . You are ashamed of western civilization and what you think is hypocrisy , and yet you want to join it , you want to the join and work for the big powerful corporations . In a way its kinda impressive . I could never betray myself and my beliefs like that
No wonder you lash out at people with insults , everyday must be hell for you
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Tufty posting images of refugees from Afghanistan and Syria wont change my mind . Why not post pictures of mass pollution ? dolphins being slaughter ? Elephants and rhinos being killed for their horns and tusks ? Why not post woman trafficking pictures ? or starving children in Somalia ?
About 2 million kids die world wide from not having clean water . I dont see tufty making threads about that
Well I am not mother Teressa and you should stop using bullshit "arguments" that are popular within fascist groups if you dont wanna be called out the "N" word. I only post whatever I like, however I get a pleasure from posting things that agitate racist cunts.
I cant justify the situation in Europe and I wont try to like you do. I am ashamed of western civilization and its hypocrisy, you just try to preserve it even by covertly telling me to shut the fuck up. I am ashamed of people like you. Fuck you!
You know , I dont like you , but now atleast I understand you
You hate yourself . You are ashamed of western civilization and what you think is hypocrisy , and yet you want to join it , you want to the join and work for the big powerful corporations . In a way its kinda impressive . I could never betray myself and my beliefs like that
No wonder you lash out at people with insults , everyday must be hell for you
Well I wont go into self destructing mode and self-suffering just so idiots like you can tell me that I live upon my beliefs. Frankly you dont have a clue about my beliefs, as you cant/dont want to understand far simpler things. I am clear about this topic in real confessions thread and if you cant accept/comprehend this I dont give a fuck.
West is the best thing there is but is it a good thing? NO!!!! Everyone wants a piece of it. No doubt!!! However West is far from what it markets to be and besides that it is my home. I dont hate myself, I hate people around me that think like you and cater this mess. I have people I love and they would hate you too.
I really wish I am wrong but our beloved EUrope turns into something new. Sadly something worse and dark. I cant really love people that cater this transformation and sure it doesnt make me happy, as we are talking about friends, family and innocent people who will suffer. If that doesnt infuriate you, you are a piece of shit. I am sure you are.
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Even though you may be a part of the western culture, you're still allowed to dislike it and it's affects on the world. There were germans who hated what their country was doing and didn't agree with the war. You should read more if you think the west isn't hypocritical in it's dealings with the rest of the world.
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Nice piece
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/01/refugees-europe-merkel-germany-migrants-france-emergency/ (https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/01/refugees-europe-merkel-germany-migrants-france-emergency/)
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you are right . I dont really see any argument that would change my mind on this subject . I used to be pretty open about accepting refugees . They need help , But after seeing what happens when you do help them . I really dont think we should help them by letting them into the EU . We should help them stay in their own countries . Military intervention and aid programs
Ok, I'll give it one more go. Like Skatan said, there are bad apples everywhere. But I understand what you are afraid of.
Not a single Arabic country makes the top 100 in the Gender Gap Index. And it's true that in Islamic countries the statistics on rape are off the charts (over 99% of women in Egypt have been sexually assaulted at least once in their life). It actually is pretty likely that, in that respect, there are more bad apples among the refugees than there are among 'us'. Much the same is true of Latin-America, by the way, but we shouldn't be afraid to acknowledge this about the places people are fleeing from.
But we also shouldn't let that undermine the values which western civilization is, supposedly, built on. For all our hypocrisy and greed, our states' inability and/or reluctance to withstand corporate influence and so on, those European states still are some of the best places to live in, especially in terms of human rights and equality.
Values which we are now hoarding. Countries are taking refugees' money under the embarrassingly flimsy pretext of having them pay for their accommodation. A child can figure out these confiscations won't make a dent, that it is just an uninspired measure to appease disgruntled Danes and Germans. Refugees have to wait three years to reunite their families? It's symbolic politics at its worst, and you might as well call it bullying. But it functions in detracting from the reality, that we are going to have to cooperate as European countries, and throw a shitload of money at this, because it is worth that to us. The same way Sweden doesn't do life sentencing, because it gives people the benefit of the doubt, the opportunity to better themselves. We aim for rehabilitation rather than condemnation, and grant human rights to everyone. If those are indeed our values.
How else do you see this play out? The refugees will come. We have started intervening, sent our militaries, but the influx continues and will continue for some time. So they'll go elsewhere, becoming even more marginalized than they already were. People will look back on this moment in time, and what will they see? Thousands of desperate people came into the continent, thousands more died en route. We put up barracks and fed, clothed and washed them. Educated their children where we could. Then some of them got violent and we went,
Fuck this shit. Here's the plan: close the gate. Drone their deserts and let Dubai take the fuckers. We'll keep the ones we already have in the barracks for a few more years, until eventually we have to let them stay, what with all their children becoming practically native here. By then the public will empathise with them because it'll be heartwarming to them how well they speak our language. It'll blow over.
Is that a good look for our enlightened western civilization?
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in very few words:
western civilization has been built and further on has flourished through the exploitation of poor countries. This is written in all history books. Refugees entering Europe and europeans complaining over this?
ha
ha
ha
man up, biatch
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Frontex admited after greek government that sealing the sea border with turkey is impossible and this happened...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNx9zQBQSDs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNx9zQBQSDs)
Another solution is this
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12119799/Greece-threatened-with-expulsion-from-Schengen-free-movement-zone.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/12119799/Greece-threatened-with-expulsion-from-Schengen-free-movement-zone.html)
EU is already a bad joke.
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That's what you get for blackmailing Europe when you're already dead weight.
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Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.
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Montys problem is solved:
http://www.thelocal.se/20160128/sweden-to-hire-planes-to-send-back-80000-migrants (http://www.thelocal.se/20160128/sweden-to-hire-planes-to-send-back-80000-migrants)
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Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.
if your position wasnt so incredibly desperate, it would already be funny. economy down, everything else fucked, and thousands of refugees that either drown or enter your country. cant imagine that. recently talked with my parents about it, and what would you do if a shitty raft filled with refugees landed at your doorstep? would you send them out to sea to drown? fuck that.
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The one and only solution is to shut down all weapon factories and confiscate their assets and get rid of any kind of army. By ending war globally a lot of people (especially of the Donald Gump orientation) would get pissed off but this would stop all the misery. As time goes past, refugees will integrate with the locals and no more refugees will be produced as the world will be in peace. If certain countries are in need for oil and general resources of any kind they should then be able to either extract oil in their own premises or buy these resources instead of bombing the fuck out of innocent people in the name of liberation/freedom. I am pretty sure that the majority of weapons used in terrorist operations come from countries with the biggest "terrorism" problems. This is fair in my opinion. Not a good thing, just very fair.
#supplyanddemand
or vice versa
#demandandsupply
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Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.
if your position wasnt so incredibly desperate, it would already be funny. economy down, everything else fucked, and thousands of refugees that either drown or enter your country. cant imagine that. recently talked with my parents about it, and what would you do if a shitty raft filled with refugees landed at your doorstep? would you send them out to sea to drown? fuck that.
Day by day people in Greece change their position towards EU. In the summer 60/40 was roughly the percentage of pro-EU/Anti-EU greeks, even though 62% voted for NO in the referendum about the bail out (the government chose to follow the YES after the European blackmail which was called a coup by media worldwide) which clearly entailed the danger of getting kicked out of EU and Eurozone. I am pretty sure that after all these months the situation is more Anti-EU than ever by a vast majority. I am pretty sure that the average greek will rather eat stones for the rest of their lives than have blood on their hands. However the government cant imagine themselves outside EU and the opposition is the neoliberal-far right of Mitsotakis that is favoured by European media and EU political circles. Anyway I think that the existence of EU is on a countdown anyway, another crisis is going to happen and there are at least 7 countries (among them France) that are in deep shit economically-wise like Greece waiting to blow up, Greece was the weakest and blew up first.
We are living in a period of transformation and thats where monsters like Nazis get born. That's a good book I bought Yesterday and is relevant on the matter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Transformation_(book)
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Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.
if your position wasnt so incredibly desperate, it would already be funny. economy down, everything else fucked, and thousands of refugees that either drown or enter your country. cant imagine that. recently talked with my parents about it, and what would you do if a shitty raft filled with refugees landed at your doorstep? would you send them out to sea to drown? fuck that.
Think about that for a second . Lets say 10 refugees landed on your door step . Can you take responsibility for them ? make sure they get to school , get health care , medical and dental care . They get food and clothes . Make sure they learn Austrian , find a job for them
Do you have room for 10 of them ? can you have any kind of life with 10 syrians living in your place . What if 1 of them is a rapist . Can you justify taking in 10 refugees if 1 of them is gonna rape your mother , or stab your father ?
Is it worth saving 10 people if one of them will stab your father to death ? . I mean the other 9 are innocent people right .
I see that example around here alot . Theres always afew bad apples right
You think the parents or sisters and brothers of the swedish girl who got stabbed to death gives a shit that not all of them are bad apples ? Im pretty sure they would let him die , maybe 100 or 1000 refugees die if it would stop their kid dying
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Yeah Greece have to choose between drowning refugees or becoming Europe's unwanted human dumpster. Civilised solutions at their finest.
if your position wasnt so incredibly desperate, it would already be funny. economy down, everything else fucked, and thousands of refugees that either drown or enter your country. cant imagine that. recently talked with my parents about it, and what would you do if a shitty raft filled with refugees landed at your doorstep? would you send them out to sea to drown? fuck that.
Make sure they learn Austrian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Austria Obscure much?
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Montys problem is solved:
http://www.thelocal.se/20160128/sweden-to-hire-planes-to-send-back-80000-migrants (http://www.thelocal.se/20160128/sweden-to-hire-planes-to-send-back-80000-migrants)
Solved and solved . Thats 80000 people who didnt have to be here to start with and 80000 people who took up spots for REAL refugees who needed to be here . Not to mention the millions , maybe billions we spent on them and will spend on them to get them back to where they come from .
Money sweden could have used for infrastructure , healthcare , schools , youth programs and intergration programs for refugees
Sweden also has a problem with telling people they are being deported in afew months , and then having these people dissaper in sweden
Its in swedish so ill give a cliff note
20 refugees in Sweden riot and trash their refugee centre . Destroying furniture , doors , throwing furniture out of windows . Staff locked themselves into a room to escape threats of violence and fearing for their lives
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/storbrak-pa-hem-for-ensamkommande/ (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/storbrak-pa-hem-for-ensamkommande/)
Man carrying two guns and a copy of the Koran hidden in a bag is arrested at Euro Disney in Paris
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421261/Man-carrying-two-guns-arrested-police-DisneyLand-Paris.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421261/Man-carrying-two-guns-arrested-police-DisneyLand-Paris.html)
Volunteer who claimed a migrant had dropped dead outside Berlin registration centre after waiting outside for days admits he LIED in a bid to win sympathy for asylum seekers
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421029/Volunteer-claimed-migrant-dropped-dead-outside-Berlin-registration-centre-waiting-outside-days-admits-LIED-bid-win-sympathy-asylum-seekers.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3421029/Volunteer-claimed-migrant-dropped-dead-outside-Berlin-registration-centre-waiting-outside-days-admits-LIED-bid-win-sympathy-asylum-seekers.html)
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monty, i always liked you and your most of the time down to earth approach to social and political topics, although i often couldnt agree, but...
assuming that amongst 10 random people of another nationality or race there must at least be one rapist among them is, in fact, racist.
that said, would you take in 10 random fellow swedes? i mean sweden apparently has a really high sex crime rate. of course, this is all due to influx of muslim men, duh...
http://www.wonderslist.com/top-10-countries-with-maximum-rape-crimes/ (http://www.wonderslist.com/top-10-countries-with-maximum-rape-crimes/)
you should just admit outright that you're at least a little racist, because there's no denying anymore. not even shaming you for it, but you come up with the lamest, most played out, paranoid right wing thoughts, i#m almost thinking you started trolling in the last few weeks. this and calling the cops from over sweden because a wannabe artists smashes lobster tanks in ny... i wonder what you could achieve in your immediate surroundings in do-goodery if you took the same time talking to actual refugees about what they've seen, what they want to live like in sweden, get into a dialogue, you know.
maybe you did that, maybe not, but whatever, stop masking your ludicrous fantasy stories about what couldawoulda happen as something like the stand of a concerned citizen. it's at least very reactionary, and your last post about hypothetical rapists among hypothetical groups of syrians that you fear will rape your mom/sister/gf/any woman in your surroundings shows how backwards you think about this subject. if you would fear violence against woman in general, you already had plenty of reasons to be afraid about rape in sweden before, but i bet you never were. all of a sudden, you are tho. you are a reactionary racist.
EDIT: again, evidenced by your last post, hastily providing links to stories about young muslim men that plot terror acts and vandalize, yet there is no context given by you or any opinion as to why you think this happens. for the record, i think your country especially and my own did a lot wrong in taking in that many refugees, but i don't blame their failures on the refugees coming here. they are here, now we will have to deal with them, like it or not.
good for you then that your countries leaders seem to share the same concerns, tho it is up to you how you act towards people, be it with general distrust or a more welcoming, optimistic approach. i know that the whole thing is a logistical disaster, but i will not suddenly start to assume every refugee or migrant from north african or arabic states is a terroristor rapist.
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I´ve been following this thread from day one and still dont understand Montys stand:
1) Are all or just some muslims the main problem?
2) Are all or just some refugees the main problem?
3) Some arbitrary combination of above?
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I�ve been following this thread from day one and still dont understand Montys stand:
1) Are all or just some muslims the main problem?
2) Are all or just some refugees the main problem?
3) Some arbitrary combination of above?
He is just an afraid human being. He is afraid of the changes happening around him and he wants to be left alone. He is not emotionally willing or/and mentally capable of fully understanding what's wrong. He is very affected by the elites propaganda that is everywhere around us and falls into the pitfalls they create so that the weaker turn against each other. He is afraid of going against someone more powerful than him so he resorts in blaming those under him to feel better.He just wants to be left alone in his peace and he wont bother supporting genocides for his cause. He functions with survival insticts and not logical thought. A fine soil for fascism. The average European citizen...
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monty, i always liked you and your most of the time down to earth approach to social and political topics, although i often couldnt agree, but...
You know I hope this doesnt change . Just cause Im against mass immigration of refugees doesnt mean my other views , and trying to be as nice to people as possible changes
assuming that amongst 10 random people of another nationality or race there must at least be one rapist among them is, in fact, racist. that said, would you take in 10 random fellow swedes? i mean sweden apparently has a really high sex crime rate. of course, this is all due to influx of muslim men, duh...
2 things about that , Ive had a very busy day and Im exhausted . I asked a question to Herc , not everybody ells . And I picked the number 10 cause its more close to what would fit in a house . Not the exact number of refugees that are actually coming to europe or actual crime statistics .
Im not sure why Sweden has this high sexual assault / Rape statistics . Growing up we got excellent school information about violence and sexual assault on women. And we had a strong feminist political views and so on .
I want to read more about it but Im having huge problems finding information who is committing these assults on women . How many % is committed by Swedes ? how many by foreign born people ? and so on
you should just admit outright that you're at least a little racist, because there's no denying anymore. not even shaming you for it, but you come up with the lamest, most played out, paranoid right wing thoughts, i#m almost thinking you started trolling in the last few weeks. this and calling the cops from over sweden because a wannabe artists smashes lobster tanks in ny... i wonder what you could achieve in your immediate surroundings in do-goodery if you took the same time talking to actual refugees about what they've seen, what they want to live like in sweden, get into a dialogue, you know.
How racist on the racist scale am I ? and against who ? . I never called the cops on Shawn Powers . People assumed I did but if you read through the thread you can see I never did . I was asking somebody to do it . Now this is cause I work in the restaurant business and I would be fucking pissed if I showed up at my work places and the windows were smashed . Adding the animal cruility is just a bonus to add to that asshole
And my do goodery reflects on things that happen every day in life . I would list things , but Alan would come out of the woodworks and accuse me of using "friend" arguments and making up things about my personal life
maybe you did that, maybe not, but whatever, stop masking your ludicrous fantasy stories about what couldawoulda happen as something like the stand of a concerned citizen. it's at least very reactionary, and your last post about hypothetical rapists among hypothetical groups of syrians that you fear will rape your mom/sister/gf/any woman in your surroundings shows how backwards you think about this subject. if you would fear violence against woman in general, you already had plenty of reasons to be afraid about rape in sweden before, but i bet you never were. all of a sudden, you are tho. you are a reactionary racist.
Have we had rape threads come up on SLAP before ? If I saw it Im sure I would have chimed in and talked about the shitty situation in Sweden . From the sounds of what you are saying , its
" hey sweden already is a shit hole were everybody rapes , so who cares if you let more rapists in" .
Im actually embarrassed of Sweden , I dont think we should be a country to let refugees in when we cant even protect the women who are in the country right now . Ive made the point before
If we cant protect the refugees , and give them a good life then whats the point of letting them in . We have had problems with finding housing for Swedish people . finding jobs and school for swedish people . Keeping swedish people safe
then why let in more people ?
As for Racism
Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person's social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics.
Explain to me how Im racist ? . Europe and Europen vaulues are not a Race . Christian , Atheists and Mulslims are not a race
Mass influx of Refugees is not a race .
Give me a specific example of me being racist and Ill adress it .
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monty i still know you're capable of reasonable thinking, and calling you a racist may have been harsh. but the emotional responses and examples of how shit could go wrong are as far fetched and fear induced as the horror scenarios the far right currently tries to implement in all our heads.
good point with the racist scale tho, i'd like to revise my former statement and say you dont want to be a racist and you probably even have antiracist ideals, but you say the same shit racists say. its debatable how values and religion relate to racism, but they sure often can act as catalyst for it, other times they might even help to overcome it to an extent. you talked about syrians tho, entering your home abusing your family in the worst way imaginable. you didnt talk about their presumed values or socialisation at all. it was just syrians.
and to sweden as rape capital no2, thats just another chartlist, it might even be fake. even if it is true, that would be no reason to become paranoid about ie my gf if she'd be in sweden because rapes dont just happen all the time in broad daylight in public. sometimes crazy shit like this happens and it happens everywhere in the fucking world obviously with or without refugees so why single them out for that criteria?
i'm not afraid that they rape around. but i'm afraid that they have to live in camps for a long time under poor conditions and slowly become a subsociety that is more antagonist to western society in general. i am also afraid of the people with the mob mentality that display open disregard for the refugees and think its rad when a boat sinks. theres suddenly a lot of assholes finding it funny to comment on a sunken boat with jokes like 'thats ok, we got plenty enough'. normal people become cruel fucks over this and this makes me paranoid.
of course a lot of bad shit comes to light, because refugees now get focused by police and the people, they are under watch. they are poor, no jobs, no home, of course some of them have to become criminals. they should be treated as any criminal if caught by police. right now with things like seizing their stuff when they come in like in denmark, the first signal we give them is that they are untrustworthy and not welcome. we force them to start poorer than they are and a lot of politicians now want them to be punished harder than regular citizens, like we did under hitler with jewish people back before WWII. that's a bigger step backwards on the civilatory scale for europe already imo than the refugees could ever have produced on their own efforts to destroy us culturally or whatever.
the question is if you give in and get swept away in the populist wave. i know people like you that i can respect for their articulate opinions, even when i disagree with them, but i see some of them lose their shit right now and i am wondering why that is the case. imo a lot of the things you assume are rather worst case scenarios and the problem is if a lot of people think the worst is about to happen, then tension rises and with it violent conflict because people overreact on all sides. i think the right thing to do at the moment just as a european citizen is to calm the fuck down and not give in to hate speech and really make their mind up as to why this shit happens in the first place, then we are already several steps ahead of our governments. obviously our governments and the eu are not capable of handling the situation right. but i don't think we will be able to integrate those that will stay, and a lot of them will, if they are primarily seen as a threat and get punished and shunned.
however i think you undersell yourself and you are maybe overly emotionalized right now, as a lot of people are, and i think you are smarter than bringing up stuff like that weird 1000 dead refugees for the life of the little girl trade. that is the kind overly emotionalized bullshit statement i mean. this trade is fantasy, also imo anyone wishing for a trade like that, even after experiencing something like that, is insane and a savage. i know you would never pull the trigger on 100 refugees alone, even if your family was severley attacked by one, because im sure you consider yourself a much more civilized person than that.
im super tired too, so ill stop here. i will check back in a few days and a response or more discussion is most welcome.
peace
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Monty, since you called me out, let me reiterate. In the best case scenario, you're a xenophobe. But I think that your views on the refugees fit this description of race and racism:
"The term 'race' is commonly understood as a way to group people by ethnicity, nationality, skin colour and ancestry as well cultural background and practices. While many people think of 'race' as a biological category there is no biological basis for the division of people along these lines, rather the term is socio-cultural construct used to differentiate, and to privilege, different groups of people."
"Racism refers to the dislike, unfair treatment, harassment or vilification of another person or group of people on the basis of perceived difference and a belief that one group is inherently superior to another."
http://www.monash.edu.au/social-justice/cultural-inclusion/what-is-racism.html (http://www.monash.edu.au/social-justice/cultural-inclusion/what-is-racism.html)
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It's also pretty interesting how Monty (not a racist) never posts these types of links
https://www.rt.com/news/321220-arson-attacks-polarize-sweden/ (https://www.rt.com/news/321220-arson-attacks-polarize-sweden/)
http://www.euronews.com/2015/10/29/sweden-to-hide-refugee-centres-after-several-attacks/ (http://www.euronews.com/2015/10/29/sweden-to-hide-refugee-centres-after-several-attacks/)
But I get it, the attacks weren't against Swedes, so it doesn't really matter, because it's all about
Keeping swedish people safe
and the rest can die, while Monty's
trying to be as nice to people as possible
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It's also pretty interesting how Monty (not a racist) never posts these types of links
I might not have posted links . But Ive mentioned multiple times the Extreme right is on the rise , And there has been attacks on Refugee centres . Ive also said multiple times that Sweden is pretty damn racist Along with rest of the Nordic countries
Not posting links to swedish people setting fire to refugee camps makes me a racist ? I think your definition of what a racist is abit broad
and the rest can die, while Monty's trying to be as nice to people as possible
Is this really the situation ? they will die ? If Sweden doesnt take them they die ? .
When have you ever seen me do anything bad ? evil ? commit a crime ? . how does giving my opinion on a skateboarding forum effect anything on this refugee situation . You already know who I voted for this election . And you can easily see how that party was backing the refugees in the start .
I donate a decent amount of money to medecins sans frontieres every month , and Ive been doing it since 2009 I belive . They do work all over Syria , Afghanistan and a bunch of other places
I pay taxes in Sweden which takes care of the refugees in Sweden
You make it sound as Im out throwing rocks at refugees . While my taxes and my donations have prob done more for the Refugees then yours and Tuftys
http://www.monash.edu.au/social-justice/cultural-inclusion/what-is-racism.html
whos Monash ? they made the statement of " what is racism " but no link to for example merriam-webster ?
merriam-webster is however referenced when they explain what "privilege" is
Webster's dictionary defines "privilege"
Is their definition the official explanation of the word ? or their take on the word ? Why do they reference a dictionary
to explain what privilege is and why not when they explain what racism is ?
merriam-webster
Full Definition of racism
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
racial prejudice or discrimination
and http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/ (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/)
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one�s own race is superior:
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races
Ive lived in 4 continents , and about 10 countries , Ive visited even more . Ive been a immigrant , Ive been a minority . Tufty Im not scared of change or people of any race or any country . I doubt you have lived in any other country then Greece or had the courage to leave your home and set up in a new country with a different language , different laws and different systems
What country are you in Alan ?
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THat's what you understand when I talk about change? Oh god...
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THat's what you understand when I talk about change? Oh god...
He is just an afraid human being.
Somebody who is afraid doesnt challenge himself . I do challenge myself
He is afraid of the changes happening around him and he wants to be left alone
My whole life has changes , from family life , living situations , jobs and so on . And Ive always been involved with team sports and jobs where you have to be very social
He is not emotionally willing or/and mentally capable of fully understanding what's wrong
Says you , who dont agree with me . Easy to make the case " he doesnt agree with me so he is wrong and dumb
He is very affected by the elites propaganda that is everywhere
The swedish elite is against mass refugee ? who ? name names of companies , persons or political parties that are the social elite
He is afraid of going against someone more powerful than him so he resorts in blaming those under him to feel better.
Afraid of who ? the swedish goverment ? who is more powerful then me ? and are you suggesting refugees are under me ?
Isnt that kind of classist ? racist ? fascists ? Nazi ?
what am I suposed to feel better about ? who says I feel bad about anything ? My life is fucking awesome
survival insticts and not logical thought.
Isnt survial instincts logical though ? Fight or flight , and animals natural instincts are logical
If my survival instinct is to get out of a empty house that is on fire , isnt that logical thought ?
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Well ok there is no point in this. You are clearly unable to communicate, with me at least on these subjects, but others seem to have the same problem too, so I guess its the subjects. I dont bash you because you dont agree with me, it is because you cant even understand to what I am refering to. It is like me talking about skateboarding and you make it about Ice hockey. You can carry on I wont refer to you again.
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monty i still know you're capable of reasonable thinking, and calling you a racist may have been harsh. but the emotional responses and examples of how shit could go wrong are as far fetched and fear induced as the horror scenarios the far right currently tries to implement in all our heads.
Its a emotional response cause Im pissed off . Im pissed that a young girl got murder for no real reason by a guy who she was helping .
And Ill be one of the first to say I suck at making examples , they are sometimes really bad , but they can still be used to show whats going on , but in a shitty way
good point with the racist scale tho, i'd like to revise my former statement and say you dont want to be a racist and you probably even have antiracist ideals, but you say the same shit racists say.
I am anti racist , You cant judge a human depending on their skin colour . I brought up the example when Alan called me a PEGIDA member . Im sure we can find points in the PEGIDA manifesto that both me and Alan agree on , yet we are nowhere close to being PEGIDA members
and to sweden as rape capital no2, thats just another chartlist, it might even be fake. even if it is true, that would be no reason to become paranoid about ie my gf if she'd be in sweden because rapes dont just happen all the time in broad daylight in public. sometimes crazy shit like this happens and it happens everywhere in the fucking world obviously with or without refugees so why single them out for that criteria?
Its not the first time sweden comes high on that list , and after another google search I still cant find a good stat on how many % of swedes rape and how many % of forigners rape in Sweden . How ever if sweden has 100 rapes a day , and with refugees add 100 rapes on that stat bringing the total to 200 rapes a day . I do find it to be a horrible mistake to bring in those people
i'm not afraid that they rape around. but i'm afraid that they have to live in camps for a long time under poor conditions and slowly become a subsociety that is more antagonist to western society in general. i am also afraid of the people with the mob mentality that display open disregard for the refugees and think its rad when a boat sinks. theres suddenly a lot of assholes finding it funny to comment on a sunken boat with jokes like 'thats ok, we got plenty enough'. normal people become cruel fucks over this and this makes me paranoid.
Part of the reason they live in camps long is cause they cant find a home for them . We cant even find homes for swedish people . They need jobs but we cant find jobs for swedish people .
And while they are not making big money in these homes . They get food , medical attention , and a bunch of other things including money benefits . Many people would look at that and envy them
of course a lot of bad shit comes to light, because refugees now get focused by police and the people, they are under watch. they are poor, no jobs, no home, of course some of them have to become criminals. they should be treated as any criminal if caught by police. right now with things like seizing their stuff when they come in like in denmark, the first signal we give them is that they are untrustworthy and not welcome. we force them to start poorer than they are and a lot of politicians now want them to be punished harder than regular citizens, like we did under hitler with jewish people back before WWII. that's a bigger step backwards on the civilatory scale for europe already imo than the refugees could ever have produced on their own efforts to destroy us culturally or whatever.
If all you need to do is to shine a light on something , then it was there all along . Just cause media was ignoring crimes made by refugees before , doesnt mean those crimes were not happening .
Refugee criminals do get treated differently . The 4 refugees who raped the girl in stockholm all got lower sentances cause they were not adults . Yet we dont have any positiv ID or birth certificate on any of them . Their lawyers claim they are under age . Which lowers their sentences with years
The guy who assulted the mother who had her children with her . Nobody knows really who he is or his age . He had over 4 identitys in 3 countries
The guy who is on trail now for the murder also claims he is 15 , and claims to be somebody . But we have no possitiv ID or birth certificate
Swedish people on trail have positive IDs , Birth certificates and a age
And if I was running for my life , and somebody told me . Hey we will give you a warm house , free food , free healthcare , you will be able to go to school , learn danish , get a job , and while this is going on we will also give you money benefits
But we need to take your jewellery to help pay for it , I would accept it in a heart beat
the question is if you give in and get swept away in the populist wave. i know people like you that i can respect for their articulate opinions, even when i disagree with them, but i see some of them lose their shit right now and i am wondering why that is the case. imo a lot of the things you assume are rather worst case scenarios and the problem is if a lot of people think the worst is about to happen, then tension rises and with it violent conflict because people overreact on all sides.
I have no problem with anybody here besides Tufty and Alan . Tufty has called me a Idiot , fascist , Nazi , and Im sure some things worse .
And Alan has called me racist , xenophobe , fascist
Besides calling Tufty some names , I haven't insulted anybody in this thread . I wanted a polite calm discussion .
One of my best friends is Palestinian , He has very Left / feminist views . So when we talk politics we argue about everything and dont
really see eye to eye on 99% of the topics . But we have afew beers about it and talk . And then we talk about other stuff and have
a good time
I dont understand people like Alan and Tufty who have to lash out with wild accusations, insults and make up things .
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I don't think you are racist, whatever you take that to mean, but you are pretty far to the right on this subject. You are grossly overplaying that card about Sweden being unable to house and feed their own. It isn't nearly as dire as you present it. This isn't even up for debate, so please don't respond with photo's of Swedes at a soup kitchen.
Sweden is loaded. You're beef might be with the growing income gap in your country, which in relation to other EU countries actually is remarkably low. You say people can't find work but unemployment is on the rise everywhere, though again remarkably low in Sweden by comparison. People are trying to sketch you a bigger picture and you post some photo of a bum in Stockholm as a reply. That's not to say Sweden has no poor people.
And you're right, that is appalling, for your country to have poor people. Because again, you are fucking loaded. And it's well known what the poor communities in Sweden are made up of. Immigrants. They are in large part the unemployed and the poorly housed people of your country. Is that because they're fundamentally different in nature, or does it have to do with the surroundings in which they grew up? The answer to this question will determine whether you are indeed a racist.
As for fascist. I don't think so either. You are pretty exclusive and nationalistic, you don't respond to facts and also make downright nonsensical claims which populists use as well. You said for example: 'I am against mass immigration'. This sentence holds little, if any, meaning. It's like protesting the wind. Mass immigration doesn't care what you think about it. It has always happened throughout history and will continue to do so. If you feel Sweden should turn them away, don't claim to be against mass immigration. Call it how it is, a kneejerk reaction to protect your own nation and a failure to deal with a huge humanitarian problem that is happening even if you turn your back to it.
Orwell wrote that the word 'fascism' is almost entirely meaningless, and has come to be nearly synonymous with 'bully'. I thought that was amusing, because you stated that you agree with taking refugees' belongings to pay for their imposition, which I called bullying before. Not so, because, you empathized, you would 'gladly do it' if you were a true refugee. But that money will not pay for shit. On average, the allowance they get monthly from our government is twice the amount they have with them. So is then the purpose to prove that they are happy to hand it over, thus cementing their status as a true refugee? Perhaps it will deter some fake refugees from coming over here, but let's not kid ourselves: it's a pointless shakedown bordering on the fascistoid.
I'd say a fascist purposefully manipulates his arguments more, to an entirely self-serving end. You seem genuinely clueless.
But I'm actually not really bothered whether you are a fascist or a racist. I'm bothered to see how quickly the European governments and people are turning on this problem and on these people. We are giving up on this thing before we have even begun to tackle it.
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35437873 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35437873)
Five times more attacks were carried out on migrant hostels in Germany last year than in 2014, German police say.
The total for 2015 was 1,005, compared with 199 in 2014, the police report said. Far-right activists are suspected in 90% of the cases.
@Monty
Is this really the situation ? they will die ? If Sweden doesnt take them they die ? .
You are against mass immigration to Europe, not just Sweden, right? Well, what do you think will happen to those people if they are turned back? Are their chances of survival better in Europe or Syria and refugee camps in the ME? You say that you're not doing anything against the refugees, yet you probably wouldn't do anything if they were all sent back. You're one of those people who thinks that they are innocent unless they actually pull the trigger.
Like many others in this thread have noticed, you do spout racist bs (even if some think you're not actually racist, which is illogical).
Why do you think that donating to Doctors Without Borders and living abroad means that your beliefs are automatically non-racist or non-xenophobic?
While living abroad, have you ever been a refugee? No you haven't. As a Nordic chef, I doubt that you have ever experienced anything even remotely similar to what the refugees are experiencing now in Europe. Fuck, I know for a fact that you haven't, judging by your posts elsewhere. The level of ignorance from a worldly traveler like yourself is astounding.
Monash is a top Australian university. I linked that because it gives a more detailed definition of racism, something I though might help you. Dictionary definitions aren't very useful when discussing ideas.
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You are against mass immigration to Europe, not just Sweden, right? Well, what do you think will happen to those people if they are turned back? Are their chances of survival better in Europe or Syria and refugee camps in the ME? You say that you're not doing anything against the refugees, yet you probably wouldn't do anything if they were all sent back.
Yes Im against mass immigration . Im for skilled worker / worker immigration .
What will happen to them ? The reason for them being sent back are that they dont meet the requirements of refugee status . For example people who want to come to europe and sweden to get benifits and to move from a country not doing well to a country that is doing well.
If we would allow all the people who live in countries that are not as good as europe , to move to euope . How many billions would come ?
I thought the point of being refugee and benifiting of being refugee is that you are fleeing war and the threat of death . That if you stay in your country you will die , thats why you left
You're one of those people who thinks that they are innocent unless they actually pull the trigger.
Then we are all guilty and it doesnt matter .
Like many others in this thread have noticed, you do spout racist bs (even if some think you're not actually racist, which is illogical).
Why do you think that donating to Doctors Without Borders and living abroad means that your beliefs are automatically non-racist or non-xenophobic?
Donating to Doctors Without Borders and paying tax in sweden is a example of me doing more for the refugees then you alan and tufty .
Tufty has said often that donations to organisations is worthless . I dont know if you donate ?
But Swedens tax is about 30% , Sweden has also taken in most refugees ( besides germany ) . I pay for that . Its kinda funny that
There might be Nazis in Sweden that pay 30% in tax or more if they are rich , That tax money then goes to help the refugees
and Does alot more for refugees then many of the people complaining about the situation and the right wings
While living abroad, have you ever been a refugee? No you haven't. As a Nordic chef, I doubt that you have ever experienced anything even remotely similar to what the refugees are experiencing now in Europe. Fuck, I know for a fact that you haven't, judging by your posts elsewhere. The level of ignorance from a worldly traveler like yourself is astounding.
Me having been a minority , living in many continents and traveling alot was a response to I belive both you and tufty saying Im scared of change , That Im a isolated swede , who knows nothing of the world and hasnt seen anything of the world
Monash is a top Australian university. I linked that because it gives a more detailed definition of racism, something I though might help you. Dictionary definitions aren't very useful when discussing ideas.
Well words mean something , we have dictionary definitions to understand what the word means . Somebodys ideas might be worth to discuss , but that doesnt change the meaning of the word
If you ask somebody what racism means id guess that 99 times out of a 100 people would give the definition from the dictionary .
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Today in refugee news
"Refugees" lying about their age to get special treatment
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422000/Just-old-think-migrant-children-Alarming-pictures-shed-light-growing-scandal-amid-asylum-crisis.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422000/Just-old-think-migrant-children-Alarming-pictures-shed-light-growing-scandal-amid-asylum-crisis.html)
Two migrants placed in a German children's home after claiming to be 15 and 17 are arrested for 'sexually assaulting 12-year-old girl and threatening to kill witness aged SIX'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422509/Two-migrants-places-German-children-s-home-claiming-15-17-arrested-sexually-assaulting-12-year-old-girl-threatening-kill-witness-aged-SIX.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422509/Two-migrants-places-German-children-s-home-claiming-15-17-arrested-sexually-assaulting-12-year-old-girl-threatening-kill-witness-aged-SIX.html)
Some news from sweden
Police Secret Code Hides Thousands of Crimes
R 291 is the police code for crime that is commited at refugee centres / crimes by refugee . The code which has been
kept a secret has hidden thousands of crimes from Murders , Arson , Bomb threats , Rapes and assults
SvD reports over 5000 crimes in 2015 that went under the Code R 291 . Nationella operativa avdelning is the department of the Swedish police who decided these crimes should be kept away from media and also decided to use the R 291 code for all the refugee related crimes
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/polisens-hemliga-kod-doljer-tusentals-brott/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/polisens-hemliga-kod-doljer-tusentals-brott/)
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What will happen to them ? The reason for them being sent back are that they dont meet the requirements of refugee status . For example people who want to come to europe and sweden to get benifits and to move from a country not doing well to a country that is doing well.
Who says that they don't meet requirements? The vast majority of the refugees in Europe are in fact fleeing war. And you want to send them back because they're not qualified. Hence my question, what will happen to them after they're sent back to Syria or Iraq?
Donating to Doctors Without Borders and paying tax in sweden is a example of me doing more for the refugees then you alan and tufty .
But you've used the example before to prove that you're not racist or xenophobic. So to repeat my question: Why do you think that donating to Doctors Without Borders and living abroad means that your beliefs are automatically non-racist or non-xenophobic?
Well words mean something , we have dictionary definitions to understand what the word means . Somebodys ideas might be worth to discuss , but that doesnt change the meaning of the word
Ok, I know that you're "not the smartest guy", so I will try and give you a good analogy.
This is the dictionary definition of a moussaka: "a Middle Eastern dish of ground meat (as lamb or beef) and sliced eggplant often topped with a seasoned sauce."
Could you make it without further instructions? No. This is even truer when discussing complex ideas such as race.
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Today in refugee news:
http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jan/29/hidden-child-labour-syrian-refugees-turkey-supplying-europe-fast-fashion (http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jan/29/hidden-child-labour-syrian-refugees-turkey-supplying-europe-fast-fashion)
"Turkey�s giant textile industry is a major supplier to Europe but remains largely unregulated, an estimated 60% of the total workforce is unregistered, meaning they work informally, usually without a contract or any employment benefits. Syrian refugees make up a particularly vulnerable section of the workforce. Visiting Syrian workers in textile workshops in three Turkish cities � Istanbul, Mersin and Adana � I encountered child labour, poor working conditions and low pay."
It's interesting how one of the biggest Swedish companies, H&M, profits directly from the war in Syria, while at the same time paying a very low corporate tax (way lower than personal tax), thus effectively taking away from the social state, and by extension, the refugees.
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Hey Monty, am I on your ignore list or something?
Why do you keep dodging the questions people ask you? You are against mass immigration but for helping refugees, you say once again. But left and right people are pointing out to you that this is nonsense. You can send away the economic refugees and all the people from the Balkan who pose as Syrian refugees. Nobody has disagreed with that policy but you keep bringing it up as if it is relevant. Of course our government will send those people back. But then you still have mass immigration. You see? If you are against mass immigration, the practical implication is that you are for sending all the real refugees back as well.
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Hey Monty, am I on your ignore list or something?
Nah man , Im trying to answer everybody and every question . But its like 4 people asking questions and Im trying to keep it organized
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Expand Quote
Hey Monty, am I on your ignore list or something?
Nah man , Im trying to answer everybody and every question . But its like 4 people asking questions and Im trying to keep it organized
Is that really your best effort? You just dodged the question, again. I have to assume you are trolling at this point.
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Right for excitableboy
Is that really your best effort? You just dodged the question, again. I have to assume you are trolling at this point.
Can I have a moment to think about the answer ? or a moment to freakin sit down and answer your questions ?
Its not like I can sit here all day and debate this on slap . You want me to file a scheduled to you so you know when Im online and
can write replys without being accused of dodging questions ?
Why do you keep dodging the questions people ask you
Maybe I missed it ? why is everybody ells allowed to miss questions and dodge questions except me ?
Alan has for example dodge my question on what country he is from 4 times now . And many others just ignore my replies and questions
People take huge parts of my posts and reply to 3 out of my 10 points sometimes
But left and right people are pointing out to you that this is nonsense. You can send away the economic refugees and all the people from the Balkan who pose as Syrian refugees. Nobody has disagreed with that policy
Both Alan and Tufty has dissagreed with this policy . And if I looked closer I can find atleast 1 more . Alan just on this page has said that
Who says that they don't meet requirements? The vast majority of the refugees in Europe are in fact fleeing war
this was into the reply that sweden was sending home 80 k refugees cause they dont meet the requirements of refugee status
heres one more from Alan
You say that you're not doing anything against the refugees, yet you probably wouldn't do anything if they were all sent back. You're one of those people who thinks that they are innocent unless they actually pull the trigger.
Why does Alan get a free pass from you excitableboy ?
But then you still have mass immigration. You see? If you are against mass immigration, the practical implication is that you are for sending all the real refugees back as well.
What is the number of MASS ?
I wouldnt say Im against all refugees coming here , But theres a difference between 5k 10k and then 200k we have taken in. Lets say during this crisis Sweden only took in 5k Refugees . Lets say only women and children . Or only family . And make sure these are people at risk of being systematic killed . for their race or religion
Kinda like the jews during WW2 . I would be ok with that , Europe shares the amount of REAL refugees and we try to integrate them into The countries
example
If there was a genocide against Jewish people in Syria right now and 5k of them wanted to come to Sweden . I would be ok with that
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And for alan
Who says that they don't meet requirements? The vast majority of the refugees in Europe are in fact fleeing war. And you want to send them back because they're not qualified. Hence my question, what will happen to them after they're sent back to Syria or Iraq?
The Swedish goverment . And any other goverment that is sending these " refugees " home .
But you've used the example before to prove that you're not racist or xenophobic. So to repeat my question: Why do you think that donating to Doctors Without Borders and living abroad means that your beliefs are automatically non-racist or non-xenophobic?
Why would a racist move to a country where he is a minority ? for example I lived in Asia . Why would I move to Asia and live with asians if I was a racist and hated Asians ?
Why would I support Doctors Without Borders who do alot of work in Syria , Afghanistan , Iraq if I hated these people ? its not like Doctors without borders are a White people organisation that only helps Swedes
Ok, I know that you're "not the smartest guy", so I will try and give you a good analogy.
This is the dictionary definition of a moussaka: "a Middle Eastern dish of ground meat (as lamb or beef) and sliced eggplant often topped with a seasoned sauce."
Could you make it without further instructions? No. This is even truer when discussing complex ideas such as race.
Yes I could make it . Im tons of other people can make it too . The meat needs to be cooked , The eggplants too , and a sauce .
Put it all together on a plate and its one type of Moussaka . A middle eastern chef might say its not a Traditional Moussaka but in a way its still the same dish
A guy at a lunch restaurant makes one type of moussaka , And a guy at a fine dining moussaka would make it alot diffrent . But in a way its the same .
Food is more of a art form . If Picasso and Da vinci were told to paint a picture of a girl they would look vastly diffrent . In the end its still a picture of a girl
So we take moussaka under the word Food , and the girl under the word Painting
Food , Racism , Painting . If you look that up in a dictionary you would understand what it is . If some guy wants to break down what Painting can be interpreted as , and smaller details thats up to him . But Racism is about race
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You can't compare economic immigrant from the Balkans to the ones from Somalia or similar countries. I don't oppose the deportation of economic immigrants from the Balkans, but you do oppose mass immigration of refugees from war torn regions.
And people probably ignore you because they don't see a point in repeatedly replying to the posts of a person who only wants to hear what they want to hear and keeps posting only links about the negative sides of the refugee crisis, as if that's the only side there is, without even a gram of critical thought.
And where I'm from isn't important, because unlike you, I'm not arguing from a narrow-minded nationalistic point of view. But I have mentioned where I'm from a few times on this forum, so if it bothers you that much, please feel free to use the search function.
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You can't compare economic immigrant from the Balkans to the ones from Somalia or similar countries. I don't oppose the deportation of economic immigrants from the Balkans, but you do oppose mass immigration of refugees from war torn regions.
Why do you assume that the 80k getting deported are from Syria ? how do you know what numbers are from Morocco or Tunisia ? Syria ?
You ask who makes the judgement to send them back ? well thats the immigration offices on Sweden . They look into the people and decide what their situation is
And people probably ignore you because they don't see a point in repeatedly replying to the posts of a person who only wants to hear what they want to hear and keeps posting only links about the negative sides of the refugee crisis, as if that's the only side there is, without even a gram of critical thought.
What kind of way is that to debate ? ignore the questions of somebody who has a different opinion ? and then accuse that person of not answering your questions ?
And if I only want to hear what I want to hear then I doubt I would be in this thread . Ive been insulted a number of times and I diffidently have the minority of support here
And where I'm from isn't important, because unlike you, I'm not arguing from a narrow-minded nationalistic point of view. But I have mentioned where I'm from a few times on this forum, so if it bothers you that much, please feel free to use the search function.
Thats another great way to debate . Ignore the question and make the person search for the answer
Your country of origin is important . Maybe you are a Syrian currently in a refugee camp in Sweden . That has a huge importance in this discussion as I doubt you would have a objective view on this
It's interesting how one of the biggest Swedish companies, H&M, profits directly from the war in Syria, while at the same time paying a very low corporate tax (way lower than personal tax), thus effectively taking away from the social state, and by extension, the refugees.
Fuck H&M , They are exploiting humans . They should be fined or higher ups fined or Jailed . On the other hand if Syrians were not working there somebody ells would be , and then syrians would be fucked . Its Turkeys fult for allowing this so they need to change the laws and the factory should be shut down
But then where are the syrians gonna get money for food or housing ? I dont think Turkey is giving this to them
And for excitableboy , Tufty on this page just said we should take economical refugees , and he has said so befor . So your argument about nobody saying it is abit not true
And you see alans reply to why people dont answer my questions . Why give them and him a pass on it ? while calling me out ?
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@Alan
If you think than an economic immigrant from balkans is less needy than a Syrian refugee just because there are no bombs killing them you are disillusioned. War is just capitalist economy with other means. Which means that not only wars create victims, but economic antagonisms also. I know that the international legislation (that is not followed by EU) covers only refugees, but I dont think that is right.
As brecht said: "There are many ways to kill a man. You can stab him, you can take his bread off the mouth, you can deprive him of health care, you can place him in unsuitable accommodation, you can drive him to suicide, you can send him to war. Only a few of them are illegal"
PS I didnt want to admit it but after so many pages I realised that Monty is a person. I think we should ignore him.
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The Swedish goverment . And any other goverment that is sending these " refugees " home .
Yeah, but you want to send the real refugees home too, no? That's been your argument all along.
Why would a racist move to a country where he is a minority ? for example I lived in Asia . Why would I move to Asia and live with asians if I was a racist and hated Asians ?
Why would I support Doctors Without Borders who do alot of work in Syria , Afghanistan , Iraq if I hated these people ? its not like Doctors without borders are a White people organisation that only helps Swedes
You can be racist towards some groups and not towards the other. But that's beside the point. Plenty of racists travel for work or pleasure to other countries, yet they wouldn't want those people living in their country.
I don't know why you support DWB. To clear your conscience?
Yes I could make it . Im tons of other people can make it too . The meat needs to be cooked , The eggplants too , and a sauce .
Put it all together on a plate and its one type of Moussaka . A middle eastern chef might say its not a Traditional Moussaka but in a way its still the same dish
Going from that definition, how do you know if you need to cook it or bake it? For how long? What type of sauce would you use? Which spices? You seriously don't understand the parallel I am drawing?
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gibberish
You are missing the point. Even if you send the fake refugees back, there still will be mass imigration. Mass means a lot, difficult to deal with, in this context. You are essentially saying you are against difficulty. You have this problem unless you deport them all, refugee or not. And even then, this will only be a solution for Sweden. Which, I feel i should repeat, is one of the richest places in the world.
Why would I go after Alan when he isn't replying to your questions? I have nothing to do with that. And I did give you time to reply, but you have ignored my posts consistently. This time you did reply, but you didn't answer. I get the impression you do want real refugees to be helped, but you aren't ready to accept the costs and risks of it. You can't have it both ways. If you need more time to think about it, believe me, I wholeheartedly encourage you to do so.
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@Alan
If you think than an economic immigrant from balkans is less needy than a Syrian refugee just because there are no bombs killing them you are disillusioned. War is just capitalist economy with other means. Which means that not only wars create victims, but economic antagonisms also. I know that the international legislation (that is not followed by EU) covers only refugees, but I dont think that is right. �
As brecht said: �"There are many ways to kill a man. You can stab him, you can take his bread off the mouth, you can deprive him of health care, you can place him in unsuitable accommodation, you can drive him to suicide, you can send him to war. Only a few of them are illegal"
PS I didnt want to admit it but after so many pages I realised that Monty is a person. I think we should ignore him.
I know that people fleeing the Balkans are needy, but I can't see how they are in the same position as the economic migrants from the global south.
Monty is, by his own admission, a high school drop out and not very bright, and he can't seem to get punctuation right, but I wouldn't go as far as to call him a person.
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And if I only want to hear what I want to hear then I doubt I would be in this thread . Ive been insulted a number of times and I diffidently have the minority of support here
You're the only person who knows the answer to that question...
Thats another great way to debate . Ignore the question and make the person search for the answer
I didn't ignore it. I addressed it. I told you what you can do if you're not happy with the answer.
Your country of origin is important . Maybe you are a Syrian currently in a refugee camp in Sweden . That has a huge importance in this discussion as I doubt you would have a objective view on this
How likely is that? And why is objectivity a concern for you? Do you consider yourself objective, being Swedish and posting only negative links about the refugees in Sweden? Is that objective?
But then where are the syrians gonna get money for food or housing ? I dont think Turkey is giving this to them
Well, H&M could force the Turks to improve the working conditions and increase pay, but then the Swedes probably wouldn't use their services, would they? Ah, capitalism...
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So for alan
Yeah, but you want to send the real refugees home too, no? That's been your argument all along.
Was it ? maybe I wrote wrong , or maybe you guys changed my mind . I would say we should take people facing genocide , like the jews during WW2 . Women and children prioritized . Far less then we are taking now , and more spread out all over europe . With extensive background checks
Theres a huge diffrence between taking in 200k people and then having to send home 100k cause they are not real refugees . And taking in maybe 5k that are real refugees . You just wasted a shit load of money that could have helped the real people
Also Im more for aid programs and military intervention in these countries . Helping the people with food , medical aid , and help them stay in the country .
I don't know why you support DWB. To clear your conscience ?
Maybe Im a nice guy who belives in helping the good guys ?
Going from that definition, how do you know if you need to cook it or bake it? For how long? What type of sauce would you use? Which spices? You seriously don't understand the parallel I am drawing?
If you exchange the beef for pork , it will still be a moussaka , just a pork moussaka . If you take away the meat you can make it a veggo moussaka . Make the sauce with red wine , Red wine sauce moussaka
At many restaurants when they cook beef / steaks they do it on a pan or in a oven . At a fine dining place I worked we used to take the meat raw , seal it in a vaccum bag and cook it low temp in water , then cook it in a pan .
Both are cooking it yes ? if you ask people if the meat is cooked or not . Would they say no ?
he can't seem to get punctuation right,
Im not too concerned with my punctuation on SLAP , I sometimes dont bother fixing spelling mistakes either
Well, H&M could force the Turks to improve the working conditions and increase pay, but then the Swedes probably wouldn't use their services, would they? Ah, capitalism...
You are right , or move the factories to Sweden . Or they could just make sure they get correct wages and health care . Or syrians can go on strike until they get it
You are correct . Im doing my part , Im not buyin anything from H&M and if there was a vote I would vote to fix this and punish H& M
For excitableboy
gibberish
Cmon dude , wtf you make the point nobody is saying we should take economical refugees , and on the same page somebody does it . And people have done it before
And when I call you on it you say gibberish ? wtf man
You are missing the point. Even if you send the fake refugees back, there still will be mass imigration. Mass means a lot, difficult to deal with, in this context. You are essentially saying you are against difficulty. You have this problem unless you deport them all, refugee or not. And even then, this will only be a solution for Sweden. Which, I feel i should repeat, is one of the richest places in the world.
Im not against deportation of all . But I dont want to accept them all either
The girl who got murderd from that somali guy was named Alexandra Mezher her parents were from Libanon . She was swedish . She was born in sweden , had a swedish passport . went to swedish school and spoke swedish . She was Swedish .
Instead of taking in all these refugees I support military aid from NATO , USA , Russia . and anybody ells that wants to help out . Humanitary programs to help send food and medical aid to Syria
I think this would be a cheaper (yet expensive ) solution to this
Why would I go after Alan when he isn't replying to your questions? I have nothing to do with that
Ok you have a point , I still think its abit bullshit to call me out on it when others who you agree on do it all the time
and I did give you time to reply, but you have ignored my posts consistently.
I guess I missed it , I do apologize . If I do it in the future just let me know in a friendly way and address it again
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For excitableboy
gibberish
Cmon dude , wtf you make the point nobody is saying we should take economical refugees , and on the same page somebody does it . And people have done it before
And when I call you on it you say gibberish ? wtf man
I edited that in there just to get your attention. Glad it worked. If I really thought you are a person I wouldn't go on debating with you. And I think only Tufty is saying that about economic victims, for which he has good reasons. I assume Tufty considers almost anybody in the world, from the Balkan down at least, to be economic victims. But to put them on a par with bombed people is too far for me as well, and in this thread will only confuse the matter in my opinion.
You are missing the point. Even if you send the fake refugees back, there still will be mass imigration. Mass means a lot, difficult to deal with, in this context. You are essentially saying you are against difficulty. You have this problem unless you deport them all, refugee or not. And even then, this will only be a solution for Sweden. Which, I feel i should repeat, is one of the richest places in the world.
Im not against deportation of all . But I dont want to accept them all either
The girl who got murderd from that somali guy was named Alexandra Mezher her parents were from Libanon . She was swedish . She was born in sweden , had a swedish passport . went to swedish school and spoke swedish . She was Swedish .
Instead of taking in all these refugees I support military aid from NATO , USA , Russia . and anybody ells that wants to help out . Humanitary programs to help send food and medical aid to Syria
Well there is the crucial point. You want some, because you feel it's the right thing to do, but not all, because it might not be fair to Swedes. This is a valid opinion, if you are willing to ignore the vast wealth of Swedes that is. You asked before how many refugees is too many. It's up to you to answer that because for me, that number is so much higher than what is coming in, it isn't even relevant. Whereas you feel we/Sweden are approaching that tipping point very quickly. So you are right to ask yourself this question, but then hesitate to answer, I guess because it forces you to choose between the real refugees and ourselves/Sweden.
I've said this before, bombing Syria will not, in the short term at least, change the refugee crisis that we are discussing in this thread. You continue to ignore this reality.
Ok you have a point , I still think its abit bullshit to call me out on it when others who you agree on do it all the time
When others do that I also let it slide, like I did with you. After the third time I might say something about it, because I will feel ignored or trolled. I understand you feel like a minority in this thread, perhaps a bit like you're being bullied. (Glad you're not muslim or we would've had to dress the emoji's in niqabs, am I right.) But seriously I'm really not singling you out here. I've only really talked directly to you in the last pages of this thread.
and I did give you time to reply, but you have ignored my posts consistently.
I guess I missed it , I do apologize . If I do it in the future just let me know in a friendly way and address it again
Ok, I will take into account your precious soul from now on ;)
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For excitableboy
Well there is the crucial point. You want some, because you feel it's the right thing to do, but not all, because it might not be fair to Swedes. This is a valid opinion, if you are willing to ignore the vast wealth of Swedes that is. You asked before how many refugees is too many. It's up to you to answer that because for me, that number is so much higher than what is coming in, it isn't even relevant. Whereas you feel we/Sweden are approaching that tipping point very quickly. So you are right to ask yourself this question, but then hesitate to answer, I guess because it forces you to choose between the real refugees and ourselves/Sweden.
I cant place a exact number on how many we should take . I would have to look at the numbers super close and talk to people more knowledgeable. For my view point what I see now is 200k coming in , 80k something are gonna get kicked out cause they shouldnt have been there to start with
Its costing alot of money , there huge integration problems with people who have been weeks / months in the country and they are already committing crimes . People claiming they are running for their lives , yet complaining about their housing and food
I grew up in a city called Malmo , not looking at any stats but I think its the city in Sweden with most foreigners / foreign born swedes and refugees , immigrants . Growing up we always had mixed classes , lots of people from different countries , Lots of Chileans , lots of Balkans and Iranians / Iraq . Its natural in Malmo
I've said this before, bombing Syria will not, in the short term at least, change the refugee crisis that we are discussing in this thread. You continue to ignore this reality.
Back in 93 I think , US Special Forces and Nato went into Somalia to try to feed and clean it up abit . As far as I know Somalia has no oil or any other real thing the west needs ?
Anyways there were afew incidents and the US pulled out . Today Somalia is not a good country , but when was somalia a good country ? and for how long has somalia been shitty country ? 30 years ? more ? war lords rule that country
Why should Sweden take Somali people into Sweden ? cause Somalia cant fix itself ? why should the EU ?
Syria has oil and I guess some other things . USA and Russia are playing games and ISIS is going crazy . A far better solution would be to go in and kill ISIS . USA , Russia , Nato and anybody ells who wants to join in . Tanks , boats , Troops on ground everything .
Tell everybody in Syria put down your guns or you will get killed , put up a election and when its done leave and send back all the refugees
end the war , set up rebuilding projects with companies from all over the world . If people want oil , let them buy it from the new government
because I will feel ignored or trolled. I understand you feel like a minority in this thread, perhaps a bit like you're being bullied.
Its fine , I am the minority in this thread , there are people who agree with me but most of them think its better to keep quiet , They are afraid of being labelled racist , fascist and Nazi . Its a popular tactic from the left / liberals
Kinda like when Ricky gerveis made a joke about catlyn Jenner killing somebody in a car crash . People attacked him for being transphobic
the joke has nothing to do with transsexuals
If you are negative vs any cause they will label you
Ok, I will take into account your precious soul from now on ;)
Im a tiny butterfly , treat me gently
I got to ask all you guys . If war broke out in your country . Would you stay and fight or would you become a refugee ? . Would you leave behind your mother , wife , kids and go to some other country and hope that IF you get to stay , IF you get a job , IF you get a house and IF you get money you will send for them ?
Heres another of Montys horrible examples
Sweden is a pretty stable country , But I guess if the Swedish king made a grasp for power and decided that all jews in sweden must be killed , or a genocide against blue eyed people . Splitting the police and military in 2 factions . A civil war in Sweden
I would rather stay and fight
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For excitableboy
Well there is the crucial point. You want some, because you feel it's the right thing to do, but not all, because it might not be fair to Swedes. This is a valid opinion, if you are willing to ignore the vast wealth of Swedes that is. You asked before how many refugees is too many. It's up to you to answer that because for me, that number is so much higher than what is coming in, it isn't even relevant. Whereas you feel we/Sweden are approaching that tipping point very quickly. So you are right to ask yourself this question, but then hesitate to answer, I guess because it forces you to choose between the real refugees and ourselves/Sweden.
I cant place a exact number on how many we should take . I would have to look at the numbers super close and talk to people more knowledgeable. For my view point what I see now is 200k coming in , 80k something are gonna get kicked out cause they shouldnt have been there to start with
Its costing alot of money , there huge integration problems with people who have been weeks / months in the country and they are already committing crimes . People claiming they are running for their lives , yet complaining about their housing and food
I grew up in a city called Malmo , not looking at any stats but I think its the city in Sweden with most foreigners / foreign born swedes and refugees , immigrants . Growing up we always had mixed classes , lots of people from different countries , Lots of Chileans , lots of Balkans and Iranians / Iraq . Its natural in Malmo
I've said this before, bombing Syria will not, in the short term at least, change the refugee crisis that we are discussing in this thread. You continue to ignore this reality.
Back in 93 I think , US Special Forces and Nato went into Somalia to try to feed and clean it up abit . As far as I know Somalia has no oil or any other real thing the west needs ?
Anyways there were afew incidents and the US pulled out . Today Somalia is not a good country , but when was somalia a good country ? and for how long has somalia been shitty country ? 30 years ? more ? war lords rule that country
Why should Sweden take Somali people into Sweden ? cause Somalia cant fix itself ? why should the EU ?
Syria has oil and I guess some other things . USA and Russia are playing games and ISIS is going crazy . A far better solution would be to go in and kill ISIS . USA , Russia , Nato and anybody ells who wants to join in . Tanks , boats , Troops on ground everything .
Tell everybody in Syria put down your guns or you will get killed , put up a election and when its done leave and send back all the refugees
end the war , set up rebuilding projects with companies from all over the world . If people want oil , let them buy it from the new government
because I will feel ignored or trolled. I understand you feel like a minority in this thread, perhaps a bit like you're being bullied.
Its fine , I am the minority in this thread , there are people who agree with me but most of them think its better to keep quiet , They are afraid of being labelled racist , fascist and Nazi . Its a popular tactic from the left / liberals
Kinda like when Ricky gerveis made a joke about catlyn Jenner killing somebody in a car crash . People attacked him for being transphobic
the joke has nothing to do with transsexuals
If you are negative vs any cause they will label you
Ok, I will take into account your precious soul from now on ;)
Im a tiny butterfly , treat me gently
I got to ask all you guys . If war broke out in your country . Would you stay and fight or would you become a refugee ? . Would you leave behind your mother , wife , kids and go to some other country and hope that IF you get to stay , IF you get a job , IF you get a house and IF you get money you will send for them ?
Heres another of Montys horrible examples
Sweden is a pretty stable country , But I guess if the Swedish king made a grasp for power and decided that all jews in sweden must be killed , or a genocide against blue eyed people . Splitting the police and military in 2 factions . A civil war in Sweden
I would rather stay and fight
I wouldn't put any number on it I think. That's a pretty radical view I suppose and if Europe were actually overrun with refugees, economic or terrified, who knows what I'd do. Sounds pretty apocalyptic to me, and about as outlandish as your imaginary civil war. While you understand that this is something you imagined, you are fully buying into this refugee meltdown bullshit. We make sure our pennies are safe by preventing those with poor people passports to fly here. The millions that have managed to make it here these past years have only just started to make a little dent in our budgets. I say spend more, being cheap with immigrants hasn't worked too well in the past. It's also a chance to do those good things the West always brags about to the Third World.
I agree with you when you sketch the scenario of our combined armies going over there and making things better, really better this time. But those missions somehow always go awry don't they. I don't pretend to have any idea about going over there to fix things, but we had success with that close to never.
Remember when the world put together over ten billion dollars to help Haiti? The general response to this problem couldn't be more different. The perception seems to be that refugees aren't really victims in the way that Haitians were. I guess with the Haitians you could be sure they had no part in any of that bad weather. Although they are into voodoo a bunch, we must have overlooked that. At least the rapists were easily spotted due to their houses having collapsed. And in any case they had the sense not to swim over here. If they won't run our already rebuilt sweatshop in Haiti, who will?
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I wouldn't put any number on it I think. That's a pretty radical view I suppose and if Europe were actually overrun with refugees, economic or terrified, who knows what I'd do. Sounds pretty apocalyptic to me, and about as outlandish as your imaginary civil war. While you understand that this is something you imagined, you are fully buying into this refugee meltdown bullshit
Well the police cheif said they need about 3000-4000 new police officers to deal with this refugee situations , patroling centres , handling deportations , keeping people safe . How long does it to become a police officer ? 2 or 4 years ? and they are needed now .
Police say they are over worked , they dont want to pull over time , people are calling in sick and so on . And who really wants to be a police officer ? where are we going to get 4000 new police officers ?
Sweden took in about 3x as much refugees then it can handle . There was a article written today about how Syrians at refugee centres are happy the boarder is closed cause they dont think Sweden can handle it .
http://www.expressen.se/kronikorer/britta-svensson/att-polisen-maste-rycka-ut-ar-inte-konstigt/ (http://www.expressen.se/kronikorer/britta-svensson/att-polisen-maste-rycka-ut-ar-inte-konstigt/)
Ill post some translations later of it . But the woman interview made the same examples as I usualy do but instead of a boat she said
If your house only rooms 10 people , and you can only take care of 10 people . Then you cant take in more then 10 people
The issue is not that sweden is a poor country , The issue is we are not equipped to take care of this amount of refugees . We dont have homes for these people , we dont even have refugee information centres to file the people that came in . or comes in
It takes time to hire the right people , build the homes , build the centres
Sweden prob could have handled this , if you told us 5 or 10 years ago 200k was gonna come here , be ready
I say spend more, being cheap with immigrants hasn't worked too well in the past. It's also a chance to do those good things the West always brags about to the Third World.
Ill agree with this , everybody that comes here should be treated amazing . Help with getting a home , help with a job , help with swedish , medical care and so on . But thats not reality
But this works both ways , do these people want to integrate ? and why are they here ?
I agree with you when you sketch the scenario of our combined armies going over there and making things better, really better this time. But those missions somehow always go awry don't they. I don't pretend to have any idea about going over there to fix things, but we had success with that close to never.
I dont think we tried it enough . Peace doesnt work . Telling Hitler to not attack other countries didnt really work . It worked when people got together and made him stop . Telling the guy in north korea to not treat his people like shit is not working
But sending in USA , CHina , Russia , Nato would have him gone in maybe a week ? heck you could find out where he is and drone him
Remember when the world put together over ten billion dollars to help Haiti? The general response to this problem couldn't be more different. The perception seems to be that refugees aren't really victims in the way that Haitians were
Yeah but thats the point , 200 k hatians were not coming to sweden or denmark . We could send money and send humitarian help .
And that was a fucking failur Didnt the red cross fuck up the money and nothing got done ?
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-red-cross-raised-half-a-billion-dollars-for-haiti-and-built-6-homes (https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-red-cross-raised-half-a-billion-dollars-for-haiti-and-built-6-homes)
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Isn't the refugee crisis to do with Birth rates? Germany has one of the lowest birth rates in the world, so one way to solve the problem is to take refugees. In time they will work and pay taxes etc. The trouble is because its the leading EU country so others have to follow suit.
Basically it's down to growth vs change of lifestyle. Its where capitalism is at odds with the right of politics, an unusual event in its self.
great debate btw
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great debate btw
No, not a great debate. This is about as bad as a typical pro-life/pro-choce or cannabis/liberal/conservatist debate. You have one extremist yelling at another. Both parties are grinding their political axe, just like always.
The pro-migration party refuses to admit that some immigrants are fucking animals and should get the fuck out of Europe. You know how we can deduct that some of them are pigs? By their fucking behaviour! If you are a legit refugee, you wont be raping, killing and whining about camps, because the simple fact that you dont have to fear for your life should be enough. Also, this party will be very unhappy when you point out the fact that the last thing the arabs in Europe want to see is more fucking arabs. Ask your hairdresser if you dont believe me.
Then we have the typical closet rasist coward. You know, "I have black friends" kind of guy, who will hold his wallet tight every time an unknown, slightly darker guy walks behind him. He will rarely state his political opinion to his Turkish co-worker. Prepare for endless "refugees should not be here to begin with", "helping on site" and "Im not rasist but..." rants.
As I previously pointed out, Im an immigrant myself, so I know a thing or two about both sides to this story. Cant help to suspect that both parties consist of white, male Europeans with little insight. But hey, Ive been wrong before.
My hope is that there will be a solution-oriented debate, pointing out the obvious and calling each other names does not take a genius.
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The pro-migration party refuses to admit that some immigrants are fucking animals and should get the fuck out of Europe. You know how we can deduct that some of them are pigs? By their fucking behaviour! If you are a legit refugee, you wont be raping, killing and whining about camps, because the simple fact that you dont have to fear for your life should be enough.
1. There are all sorts of people among the refugees, being a criminal doesn't make them less "legit," a criminal can still fear for his life. They're not cartoon villains. Having said that, I do believe that those who do commit crimes should be prosecuted, and the point has been made by others in this thread too, iirc.
2. Quality of life in camps is a real concern, as many reports testify. You as an immigrant (I assume a white European male) probably don't have experience in being in a refugee camp for years, or even half a year. So what makes your "insight" count?
3. The solution for the crisis needs to be systemic, otherwise it will only perpetuate the antagonism. Solutions have been proposed, but they're all very bitter pills for the European establishment.
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Ill post this up again . Im interested in hearing what Alan , Tufty , excitableboy and the rest of you guys
IIf war broke out in your country . Would you stay and fight ? or would you become a refugee ? .
Would you leave behind your mother , wife , kids and go to some other country and hope that IF you get to stay , IF you get a job , IF you get a house and IF you get money you will send for them ?
Or stay and fight for your side , and help your family and friends in your home country ?
Heres another of Montys horrible examples
Sweden is a pretty stable country , But I guess if the Swedish king made a grasp for power and decided that all jews in sweden must be killed , or a genocide against blue eyed people . Splitting the police and military in 2 factions . A civil war in Sweden
Or for any reason a civil war starts in your country and there is a side to pick
I would rather stay and fight
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I don't know. It depends.
Is this important to the discussion at hand?
I hope that your example of a civil war wasn't an analogy to the war in Syria. Btw, if you know that your example and comparisons are useless and don't help your argument at all, why keep making them?
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I don't understand why 75% of these immigrants are men... I know I'd for sure stay and fight. But these are people that hate women and think it's okay to fuck children.
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What Pisses Me Off About The European Migrant Crisis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCOLcMqdpls&sns=em#)
This is an interesting video on the topic
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The pro-migration party refuses to admit that some immigrants are fucking animals and should get the fuck out of Europe. You know how we can deduct that some of them are pigs? By their fucking behaviour! If you are a legit refugee, you wont be raping, killing and whining about camps, because the simple fact that you dont have to fear for your life should be enough.
1. There are all sorts of people among the refugees, being a criminal doesn't make them less "legit," a criminal can still fear for his life. They're not cartoon villains. Having said that, I do believe that those who do commit crimes should be prosecuted, and the point has been made by others in this thread too, iirc.
2. Quality of life in camps is a real concern, as many reports testify. You as an immigrant (I assume a white European male) probably don't have experience in being in a refugee camp for years, or even half a year. So what makes your "insight" count?
3. The solution for the crisis needs to be systemic, otherwise it will only perpetuate the antagonism. Solutions have been proposed, but they're all very bitter pills for the European establishment.
Really did not want to turn this into my lifestory. As for insights, how about more than half a year in a rat-infested tiny space, separated by a "wall", sharing utility with many other? Will my dad who now (many years later) is working as interpreter for the office of migration do? Im not gonna sit here and provide proof of my status, Im sure there is no need to go that low.
Marauders are not legit immigrants in my opinion.
About the solutions. Yes, I agree, the solutions are there, too bad the "elected" cowards who have the last say are more interested in lasting another term.
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Is it true that Sweden is the rape capitol of Europe now?
Here's something interesting to think about. If it were the other way around and Europeans were invading Syria would they welcome them? I highly doubt it.
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Is it true that Sweden is the rape capitol of Europe now?
Here's something interesting to think about. If it were the other way around and Europeans were invading Syria would they welcome them? I highly doubt it.
Some do say so, I dont know for sure. I can confirm that the grass is green and the girl are pretty.
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IIf war broke out in your country . Would you stay and fight ? or would you become a refugee ? .
Of course I wouldnt fight. In fact I am doing all in my power to leave my country because I am ashamed of it and its degrading slave to EU mentality. I would only fight for an army like that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_(Greece), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_People%27s_Liberation_Army. I would never fight an imperialistic war, only a class war.
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Is it true that Sweden is the rape capitol of Europe now?
Here's something interesting to think about. If it were the other way around and Europeans were invading Syria would they welcome them? I highly doubt it.
Some do say so, I dont know for sure. I can confirm that the grass is green and the girl are pretty.
Im not sure but the numbers are extremely high . Its worth noting that what Sweden classifies as Rape might be different in other countries
for example if you force your hand down a womans pant and touch or enter her vagina it is classified as rape
Im not sure if this would be sexual assault or molestation in other countries
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For Alan
I don't know. It depends.
depends on what ?
Is this important to the discussion at hand?
You dont think a question of " what would you do " is important in a discussion about refugees fleeing countries ? How detached are you ?
I hope that your example of a civil war wasn't an analogy to the war in Syria.
In a way it is a civil war
A civil war is a war between organized groups within the same state or country,[1] or, less commonly, between two countries created from a formerly united state
You do have more then one organized group who is against ISIS and Assad . You have ISIS against those groups and against Assad . You have Assad against the rebels and against ISIS
Other countries are involved , but this is the case in most civil wars . I dont think anybody but Russia and Turkey has boots in the ground besides some special forces from many different countries
Btw, if you know that your example and comparisons are useless and don't help your argument at all, why keep making them?
Maybe I was being sarcastic ? maybe I was making fun of myself ?
don't help your argument at all, why keep making them?
Like when you lash out and try to insult me ? calling me Facist , Racist , Xenophobe and Todd Falcon ?
Is that really helping your ability to discuss with me ?
CigaretteBeer
don't understand why 75% of these immigrants are men... I know I'd for sure stay and fight. But these are people that hate women and think it's okay to fuck children.
Many of them are economical refugees .
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You dont think a question of " what would you do " is important in a discussion about refugees fleeing countries ? How detached are you ?
I think it's pointless to argue about hypothetical situations, and it doesn't really change anything about the actual situation in Syria or the refugee crisis in Europe. Your example of a civil war in Sweden is in no way comparable to Syria. Your example is clear cut, while I am pretty sure that not even the experts on Syria know what the fuck is going on, and even if there is a "right" side. I guess you like things to be simple, but reality is often complicated. This is why your example is shit, and why asking "what would you do" in an imaginary civil war in my country is pointless.
Like when you lash out and try to insult me ? calling me Facist , Racist , Xenophobe
Those weren't intended as insults. But they weren't compliments either.
In a way it is a civil war
Christopher Columbus over here.
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I think it's pointless to argue about hypothetical situations
Kinda like schools planning what to do if a fire or a school shooting happens ? I mean its a hypothetical situation . There is no school shooting or a blazing inferno going on so theres no reason to talk about how to handle it , what to do .
Theres no reason to discus or plan any emergency evacuations from air planes . Its not crashing yet so why explain the emergency plans in the start of the flight
I think it's pointless to argue about hypothetical situations, and it doesn't really change anything about the actual situation in Syria or the refugee crisis in Europe
You are on a skateboard forum discussing this for 11 pages . You think this is going somewhere that would effect the current state of the war or refugee crisis ?
we are just talking man
This is why your example is shit, and why asking "what would you do" in an imaginary civil war in my country is pointless.
You dont think your govement has a plan or a strategry if they were attacked by X country ? or a plan or strategy if different political parties or terrorist organisations were planning or executing attacks on your country ?
Maybe if Sweden had hypothetical plans to deal with 200k refugees and Europe had hypothetical plans to deal with this refugee crisis in a imaginary civil war in Syria . Things would be abit better for everybody
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First of all, you asked about personal decisions in a hypothetical situations, not government contingency plans. Big, big difference there.
Second, in a discussion about real events, happening to real people, personal decisions in hypothetical situations are totally beside the point. You sound like a drunk in a bar, rambling and jumping from one topic to another, lacking any semblance of coherency, but believing that you're a philosophical mastermind, as if answering your question would somehow prove some point about the refugees in Europe.
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personal decisions in a hypothetical situations, not government contingency plans
We cant discuss hypothetical situations ?
What would you do if you saw a car crash is a hypothetical interesting question
What would you in a house fire is a hypothetical interesting question
Asking what somebody would do if they were in the same situation as the war refugees of Syria , in a thread about refugees
is a hypothetical interesting question and relevant
Even tufty who thinks Im a person gave a interesting answer
You sound like a drunk in a bar
Is that a upgrade from Racist, Xenophobe, fascist ? or downgrade ?
but believing that you're a philosophical mastermind,
Look whos talking , you cant even answer a simple question of what country you are from without trying o sound like philosopher
in a discussion about real events, happening to real people, personal decisions in hypothetical situations are totally beside the point.
Its not too far fetched that many European countries would have a national vote about the refugee situation . Its Hypothetical now But it can most deffently happen
Me answering on what I would vote is relevant to this discussion
are totally beside the point
What point ? theres a point to be made here ? You think Angela Merkel is keeping a eye on this thread and seeing who makes the better case ?
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Germany's Merkel says refugees must return home once war is over
Support for her conservative bloc has slipped as concerns mount about how Germany will integrate the 1.1 million migrants who arrived last year, while crime and security are also in the spotlight after a wave of assaults on women in Cologne at New Year by men of north African and Arab appearance.
"We need ... to say to people that this is a temporary residential status and we expect that, once there is peace in Syria again, once IS has been defeated in Iraq, that you go back to your home country with the knowledge that you have gained,"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH)
Do the refugees know this ? and will they be deported by germany back to Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria or will they just be allowed to take a train to Sweden and other European countries
what are the % of those that will want to go back ? after seeing Europe and having the benefits of living in Europe
Its also worth to ask what classifies as " war " ? . How long before they send home people from Iraq ? a country which has had military conflict since the 80s
'Hundreds-strong' mob of masked men rampage through Stockholm station beating up refugee children in revenge attack for female asylum centre worker killed by Somali 'boy'
A mob of black-clad masked men went on a rampage in and around Stockholm's main train station last night beating up refugees and anyone who did not look like they were ethnically Swedish.
Before the attack, the group of 200 people handed out xenophobic leaflets with the message 'Enough now'.
Swedish media reported that the thugs, allegedly linked to Sweden's football hooligan scene, were targeting unaccompanied minors with a 'foreign' background.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html)
Worth to note that one of the reasons they picked the Stockholm Central Train station is that there a huge groups of illegal / legal refugee gangs of adults and kids hanging out there . I posted a article about the crime wave at the train station afew pages ago
Heres one for CigaretteBeer
Muslims in UK top 3 million for first time... with over 50% born outside Britain: Number in country doubles in a decade as immigration and birth rates soar
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html)
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Is it true that Sweden is the rape capitol of Europe now?
Here's something interesting to think about. If it were the other way around and Europeans were invading Syria would they welcome them? I highly doubt it.
Some do say so, I dont know for sure. I can confirm that the grass is green and the girl are pretty.
Im not sure but the numbers are extremely high . Its worth noting that what Sweden classifies as Rape might be different in other countries
for example if you force your hand down a womans pant and touch or enter her vagina it is classified as rape
Im not sure if this would be sexual assault or molestation in other countries
Yes I was researching it and it's very hard to compare the numbers of rapes with many countries because there are many different legal definitions in many countries. In America it differs in each state and the word "rape" is seldom used to define sex crimes. Regardless of the figures it is obvious why this is happening. It's sexual terrorism. In my eyes the worst crime one can commit is rape. The worst variation is child molestation. I don't believe in capitol punishment but I can make an exception for rapists and child molesters. Muslims have a slightly different view than most Europeans. Their prophet was a pedophile and a rapist and fully endorses that shit.
The world truly has gone mad. The rise of PC idiots that believe they're liberals don't seem to believe in having open discusions. They will call me a bigot because I am against a political ideology that infringes upon human rights. I am truly an intolerant facist because I'm apposed to intolerance and facism. Yes that makes total sense. I am against any political ideology that promotes rape and pedophilia, sexism and hatred of homosexuals and transgendered people, genocide, and murder. It's very clear this is what the Quarn teaches. I suppose the fact that I am against Nazism is more proof of my bigotry. They have a clever tactic of accusing you of belonging to some fucked up group if you disagree with the norm. How liberal of them to name call and divide people against each other.
I was reading that 60% of the "refugees" are economic migrants. Those people should receive nothing. It truly is a horrible situation for Europe. But your leaders and all of these leftist PC idiots are to blame. Only a fool would believe mixing these people with western society would work out. Sweden should cut off welfare to these bastards as soon as possible. Even highly educated immigrants don't do well because of the welfare sytem there.
All of the people that think European citizens should have to suffer and help these people that hate western values are idiots. Is it really fair to make the people of a country suffer for their corrupt leader's sins? I don't think so. But an awful lot of your people seemed to think this was a great idea and masses of fools were happy to have these 3rd world people suck the great tit of Europe.
Here's an article on Islam and rape
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/female-al-azhar-prof-allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/female-al-azhar-prof-allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women)
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Germany's Merkel says refugees must return home once war is over
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Support for her conservative bloc has slipped as concerns mount about how Germany will integrate the 1.1 million migrants who arrived last year, while crime and security are also in the spotlight after a wave of assaults on women in Cologne at New Year by men of north African and Arab appearance.
"We need ... to say to people that this is a temporary residential status and we expect that, once there is peace in Syria again, once IS has been defeated in Iraq, that you go back to your home country with the knowledge that you have gained,"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH)
Do the refugees know this ? and will they be deported by germany back to Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria or will they just be allowed to take a train to Sweden and other European countries
what are the % of those that will want to go back ? after seeing Europe and having the benefits of living in Europe
Its also worth to ask what classifies as " war " ? . How long before they send home people from Iraq ? a country which has had military conflict since the 80s
'Hundreds-strong' mob of masked men rampage through Stockholm station beating up refugee children in revenge attack for female asylum centre worker killed by Somali 'boy'
Expand Quote
A mob of black-clad masked men went on a rampage in and around Stockholm's main train station last night beating up refugees and anyone who did not look like they were ethnically Swedish.
Before the attack, the group of 200 people handed out xenophobic leaflets with the message 'Enough now'.
Swedish media reported that the thugs, allegedly linked to Sweden's football hooligan scene, were targeting unaccompanied minors with a 'foreign' background.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html)
Worth to note that one of the reasons they picked the Stockholm Central Train station is that there a huge groups of illegal / legal refugee gangs of adults and kids hanging out there . I posted a article about the crime wave at the train station afew pages ago
Heres one for CigaretteBeer
Muslims in UK top 3 million for first time... with over 50% born outside Britain: Number in country doubles in a decade as immigration and birth rates soar
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html)
Wow that is really fucked up and sad. Last night I was watching youtube videos about Muslims in Britain. I couldn't believe the attitude of the Muslims to the native people. The ones in Britain are very hostile and get violent for simply disagreeing with them. Islam has no place in Europe and it's absurd they move to a place with a culture that clashes with theirs. I can't imagine how shitty it would feel to have your home being invaded by assholes that feel they have the right to change the culture to theirs.
Even though so many horrible acts of violence are carried out in the name of Islam people somehow believe the majority are peaceful and it's just a few bad apples that give the religion a bad name. It's not hard to find out what the teachings of Islam are so how is it that people that believe in such barbaric fascist shit are all harmless peaceful brothers and sisters of ours?And fuck it, let's invite them into our country and take care of them. There's no way any of them are terrorist. That's paranoid thinking and of course racist(somehow it's now racist to be opposed to a political theolgy) The majority of Muslims believe in Shariah Law. That really says a lot. And large numbers approve of terrorism. Those are just the ones admitting it. And no, I'm not saying every Muslim is going to commit acts of terror. But anyone who believes in such a fucked up way of life can fuck off. Most KKK members aren't committing crimes but they believe in fucked up things and are a part of the problem. So the same law applies to them; which is, they can fuck off.
What they are doing is commiting cultural genocide in Britain. These people (Muslims) are not wanted there by the native people, but Europeans are so scared of being called a racist or xenophobe they just let it happen. Brittish people are trying to prove they're not racist by letting people that despise their society invade it and eventually destroy it. That's like letting somebody fuck you in the ass to prove you're not a homophobe. Any other people would defend their land from being taken over by brainwashed followers of a pedophile, but it seems the British people have lost their balls. I would love to see those evil fuckers driven out of there but I don't see that happening soon and perhaps my Native American ancestors have cursed them for the genocide their ancestors committed. Hopefully not though because a child shouldn't pay for their father's sins. And here is a link to what I mean by cultural genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide
An interesting thing I found out was that Adolf Hitler was a huge fan of Islam. It makes sense because Nazism and Islam are very similiar political ideologies. I really hope people will realize Islam is a very dangerous threat to the western world before it's too late and we have another Hitler. Many people supported Nazism until they could see how horrible it was. Maybe the first people to say it was wrong were called Naziphobes? The people that carried out 9/11 and the members of ISIS aren't distorting the Quran's teachings. They our doing exactly what their holy book commands them to do.
Here's a link to an article from The Wall Street Journel called "Why Hitler wished he was a Muslim". http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-hitler-wished-he-were-muslim-wsj.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#.Vq3sQqjnbYj (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-hitler-wished-he-were-muslim-wsj.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#.Vq3sQqjnbYj)
Link to support for Nazi Germany
http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Who-Supported-Hitler-and-Why.htm (http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Who-Supported-Hitler-and-Why.htm)
MUSLIM HOSPITALITY IN LONDON -- A SCARY VIDEO LIKE THIS COULD BE COMING TO A STREET NEAR YOU? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M&sns=em#)
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personal decisions in a hypothetical situations, not government contingency plans
We cant discuss hypothetical situations ?
What would you do if you saw a car crash is a hypothetical interesting question
What would you in a house fire is a hypothetical interesting question
To reiterate, you asked about personal decisions in a hypothetical situations, then started going on about government contingency plans as if that was what you asked about. Even you can see that there's a discrepancy there.
A fire or a crash are very simple situations, while the war in Syria is very complicated. Besides, you didn't ask what we would do if we were in the Syrians' position, but rather what we would do if a war broke out in our country, and then gave a piss poor example of a civil war in Sweden, which is in no way comparable to the war in Syria.
Its not too far fetched that many European countries would have a national vote about the refugee situation . Its Hypothetical now But it can most deffently happen
Me answering on what I would vote is relevant to this discussion
You're jumping from topic to topic again.
Look whos talking , you cant even answer a simple question of what country you are from without trying o sound like philosopher
I'm not, but seeing as you are a high school dropout who's not very bright, I can see why it seems that way.
The point of this topic is to discuss and debate the refugee crisis in Europe. And there's obviously several sides in this discussion, with you on the anti-refugee side.
seeing who makes the better case ?
Yes, that is exactly the point of this discussion, minus the shitty Merkel remark. Now that you know, maybe you'll begin to think about making relevant points.
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To reiterate, you asked about personal decisions in a hypothetical situations, then started going on about government contingency plans as if that was what you asked about. Even you can see that there's a discrepancy there.
I asked several question , you are just trying to lump them into one , and claiming it has nothing to do with the thread . I gave several options for you to answer a "what would you do " for you to be open to answer
A fire or a crash are very simple situations
Are they ? how many thousands die every year cause they did stupid things and panicked ? How many thousands die every year cause they stay inside a burning house to try to help people , or who get lost in the house thanks to fire and smoke ?
How many people start even bigger fires by pouring water on grease and oil fires thinking it will end the fire ?
you didn't ask what we would do if we were in the Syrians' position, but rather what we would do if a war broke out in our country
You refuse to answer the question cause you would have to imagine your country being in a civil war ?
but you would be ok with imagine your self being Syrian and being at war ?
You're jumping from topic to topic again.
Am I ? Countries voting on how to deal with refugees in the thread about how to deal with refugees is jumping topic ?
The point of this topic is to discuss and debate the refugee crisis in Europe
So yeah ? what you would do if you were in the position of a refugee and votes about the refugee crisis are not relevant to the discussion
Maybe you should post some rules to this thread on what exactly we are allowed to talk about
seeing as you are a high school dropout who's not very bright
You keep bringing that up , how is that relevant to this discussion ?
Me asking a " What would you do if you were in shoes of a syrian " or " what would you do if civil war broke out in your country :
are not relevant in a discution about refugees
But me not wanting to take Spanish or math is relevant in a discussion about refugees ?
Yes, that is exactly the point of this discussion, minus the shitty Merkel remark. Now that you know, maybe you'll begin to think about making relevant points.
You know maybe I was wrong , maybe the Swedish government and Merkel is watching this thread . Seems like the view on who is a legit refugee and who is not is becoming quite clear. Is there any country who is talking about expanding their refugee intake ?
Seems more like more and more countries are talking about closing up and kick them out . I guess Ice Nine was right ,
monty burns is a genius, someone with some pull should inform world leaders about this thread
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Is it true that Sweden is the rape capitol of Europe now?
Here's something interesting to think about. If it were the other way around and Europeans were invading Syria would they welcome them? I highly doubt it.
Some do say so, I dont know for sure. I can confirm that the grass is green and the girl are pretty.
Im not sure but the numbers are extremely high . Its worth noting that what Sweden classifies as Rape might be different in other countries
for example if you force your hand down a womans pant and touch or enter her vagina it is classified as rape
Im not sure if this would be sexual assault or molestation in other countries
Yes I was researching it and it's very hard to compare the numbers of rapes with many countries because there are many different legal definitions in many countries. In America it differs in each state and the word "rape" is seldom used to define sex crimes. Regardless of the figures it is obvious why this is happening. It's sexual terrorism. In my eyes the worst crime one can commit is rape. The worst variation is child molestation. I don't believe in capitol punishment but I can make an exception for rapists and child molesters. Muslims have a slightly different view than most Europeans. Their prophet was a pedophile and a rapist and fully endorses that shit.
The world truly has gone mad. The rise of PC idiots that believe they're liberals don't seem to believe in having open discusions. They will call me a bigot because I am against a political ideology that infringes upon human rights. I am truly an intolerant facist because I'm apposed to intolerance and facism. Yes that makes total sense. I am against any political ideology that promotes rape and pedophilia, sexism and hatred of homosexuals and transgendered people, genocide, and murder. It's very clear this is what the Quarn teaches. I suppose the fact that I am against Nazism is more proof of my bigotry. They have a clever tactic of accusing you of belonging to some fucked up group if you disagree with the norm. How liberal of them to name call and divide people against each other.
I was reading that 60% of the "refugees" are economic migrants. Those people should receive nothing. It truly is a horrible situation for Europe. But your leaders and all of these leftist PC idiots are to blame. Only a fool would believe mixing these people with western society would work out. Sweden should cut off welfare to these bastards as soon as possible. Even highly educated immigrants don't do well because of the welfare sytem there.
All of the people that think European citizens should have to suffer and help these people that hate western values are idiots. Is it really fair to make the people of a country suffer for their corrupt leader's sins? I don't think so. But an awful lot of your people seemed to think this was a great idea and masses of fools were happy to have these 3rd world people suck the great tit of Europe.
Here's an article on Islam and rape
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/female-al-azhar-prof-allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/female-al-azhar-prof-allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women)
mate, amongst your ramblings you have missed one very big thing. the reason that these refugees' countries are at war or at a fucked up state is because of the western world invading them and generally messing with their politics and peace. i believe the least a humane europe could do would be to provide refugees with accomodation and food. after all, any prosperity that the europeans have been enjoying in the few centuries past is all due to invasions, crusades, discovery of america (and all other "americas" throughout history), exploitation of the far east to name a few examples. where did all this amazing wealth come from otherwise?
i do not like any religions, especially the muslim one that is stricter than most others and requires a higher level of illiteracy to follow. i have met and become friends with various muslims from different backgrounds and under lots of circumstances. my impressions are:
none of them was a pedo.
all of them had strong ties with their families.
their praying in the middle of the day looked dumb as fuck.
if you think that the majority of refugees are violent pedophiles then you need to travel a little and educate yourself from sources other than sites like "www.jihadiwatch.com)
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Germany's Merkel says refugees must return home once war is over
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Support for her conservative bloc has slipped as concerns mount about how Germany will integrate the 1.1 million migrants who arrived last year, while crime and security are also in the spotlight after a wave of assaults on women in Cologne at New Year by men of north African and Arab appearance.
"We need ... to say to people that this is a temporary residential status and we expect that, once there is peace in Syria again, once IS has been defeated in Iraq, that you go back to your home country with the knowledge that you have gained,"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH)
Do the refugees know this ? and will they be deported by germany back to Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria or will they just be allowed to take a train to Sweden and other European countries
what are the % of those that will want to go back ? after seeing Europe and having the benefits of living in Europe
Its also worth to ask what classifies as " war " ? . How long before they send home people from Iraq ? a country which has had military conflict since the 80s
'Hundreds-strong' mob of masked men rampage through Stockholm station beating up refugee children in revenge attack for female asylum centre worker killed by Somali 'boy'
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A mob of black-clad masked men went on a rampage in and around Stockholm's main train station last night beating up refugees and anyone who did not look like they were ethnically Swedish.
Before the attack, the group of 200 people handed out xenophobic leaflets with the message 'Enough now'.
Swedish media reported that the thugs, allegedly linked to Sweden's football hooligan scene, were targeting unaccompanied minors with a 'foreign' background.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html)
Worth to note that one of the reasons they picked the Stockholm Central Train station is that there a huge groups of illegal / legal refugee gangs of adults and kids hanging out there . I posted a article about the crime wave at the train station afew pages ago
Heres one for CigaretteBeer
Muslims in UK top 3 million for first time... with over 50% born outside Britain: Number in country doubles in a decade as immigration and birth rates soar
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html)
Wow that is really fucked up and sad. Last night I was watching youtube videos about Muslims in Britain. I couldn't believe the attitude of the Muslims to the native people. The ones in Britain are very hostile and get violent for simply disagreeing with them. Islam has no place in Europe and it's absurd they move to a place with a culture that clashes with theirs. I can't imagine how shitty it would feel to have your home being invaded by assholes that feel they have the right to change the culture to theirs.
Even though so many horrible acts of violence are carried out in the name of Islam people somehow believe the majority are peaceful and it's just a few bad apples that give the religion a bad name. It's not hard to find out what the teachings of Islam are so how is it that people that believe in such barbaric fascist shit are all harmless peaceful brothers and sisters of ours?And fuck it, let's invite them into our country and take care of them. There's no way any of them are terrorist. That's paranoid thinking and of course racist(somehow it's now racist to be opposed to a political theolgy) The majority of Muslims believe in Shariah Law. That really says a lot. And large numbers approve of terrorism. Those are just the ones admitting it. And no, I'm not saying every Muslim is going to commit acts of terror. But anyone who believes in such a fucked up way of life can fuck off. Most KKK members aren't committing crimes but they believe in fucked up things and are a part of the problem. So the same law applies to them; which is, they can fuck off.
What they are doing is commiting cultural genocide in Britain. These people (Muslims) are not wanted there by the native people, but Europeans are so scared of being called a racist or xenophobe they just let it happen. Brittish people are trying to prove they're not racist by letting people that despise their society invade it and eventually destroy it. That's like letting somebody fuck you in the ass to prove you're not a homophobe. Any other people would defend their land from being taken over by brainwashed followers of a pedophile, but it seems the British people have lost their balls. I would love to see those evil fuckers driven out of there but I don't see that happening soon and perhaps my Native American ancestors have cursed them for the genocide their ancestors committed. Hopefully not though because a child shouldn't pay for their father's sins. And here is a link to what I mean by cultural genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide
An interesting thing I found out was that Adolf Hitler was a huge fan of Islam. It makes sense because Nazism and Islam are very similiar political ideologies. I really hope people will realize Islam is a very dangerous threat to the western world before it's too late and we have another Hitler. Many people supported Nazism until they could see how horrible it was. Maybe the first people to say it was wrong were called Naziphobes? The people that carried out 9/11 and the members of ISIS aren't distorting the Quran's teachings. They our doing exactly what their holy book commands them to do.
Here's a link to an article from The Wall Street Journel called "Why Hitler wished he was a Muslim". http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-hitler-wished-he-were-muslim-wsj.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#.Vq3sQqjnbYj (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-hitler-wished-he-were-muslim-wsj.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#.Vq3sQqjnbYj)
Link to support for Nazi Germany
http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Who-Supported-Hitler-and-Why.htm (http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Who-Supported-Hitler-and-Why.htm)
MUSLIM HOSPITALITY IN LONDON -- A SCARY VIDEO LIKE THIS COULD BE COMING TO A STREET NEAR YOU? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M&sns=em#)
you should watch some youtube videos of the brits' attitude towards the locals when they were invading pakistan/india/south africa. im sure they behaved like real gentlemen
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Is it true that Sweden is the rape capitol of Europe now?
Here's something interesting to think about. If it were the other way around and Europeans were invading Syria would they welcome them? I highly doubt it.
Some do say so, I dont know for sure. I can confirm that the grass is green and the girl are pretty.
Im not sure but the numbers are extremely high . Its worth noting that what Sweden classifies as Rape might be different in other countries
for example if you force your hand down a womans pant and touch or enter her vagina it is classified as rape
Im not sure if this would be sexual assault or molestation in other countries
Yes I was researching it and it's very hard to compare the numbers of rapes with many countries because there are many different legal definitions in many countries. In America it differs in each state and the word "rape" is seldom used to define sex crimes. Regardless of the figures it is obvious why this is happening. It's sexual terrorism. In my eyes the worst crime one can commit is rape. The worst variation is child molestation. I don't believe in capitol punishment but I can make an exception for rapists and child molesters. Muslims have a slightly different view than most Europeans. Their prophet was a pedophile and a rapist and fully endorses that shit.
The world truly has gone mad. The rise of PC idiots that believe they're liberals don't seem to believe in having open discusions. They will call me a bigot because I am against a political ideology that infringes upon human rights. I am truly an intolerant facist because I'm apposed to intolerance and facism. Yes that makes total sense. I am against any political ideology that promotes rape and pedophilia, sexism and hatred of homosexuals and transgendered people, genocide, and murder. It's very clear this is what the Quarn teaches. I suppose the fact that I am against Nazism is more proof of my bigotry. They have a clever tactic of accusing you of belonging to some fucked up group if you disagree with the norm. How liberal of them to name call and divide people against each other.
I was reading that 60% of the "refugees" are economic migrants. Those people should receive nothing. It truly is a horrible situation for Europe. But your leaders and all of these leftist PC idiots are to blame. Only a fool would believe mixing these people with western society would work out. Sweden should cut off welfare to these bastards as soon as possible. Even highly educated immigrants don't do well because of the welfare sytem there.
All of the people that think European citizens should have to suffer and help these people that hate western values are idiots. Is it really fair to make the people of a country suffer for their corrupt leader's sins? I don't think so. But an awful lot of your people seemed to think this was a great idea and masses of fools were happy to have these 3rd world people suck the great tit of Europe.
Here's an article on Islam and rape
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/female-al-azhar-prof-allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/female-al-azhar-prof-allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women)
mate, amongst your ramblings you have missed one very big thing. the reason that these refugees' countries are at war or at a fucked up state is because of the western world invading them and generally messing with their politics and peace. i believe the least a humane europe could do would be to provide refugees with accomodation and food. after all, any prosperity that the europeans have been enjoying in the few centuries past is all due to invasions, crusades, discovery of america (and all other "americas" throughout history), exploitation of the far east to name a few examples. where did all this amazing wealth come from otherwise?
i do not like any religions, especially the muslim one that is stricter than most others and requires a higher level of illiteracy to follow. i have met and become friends with various muslims from different backgrounds and under lots of circumstances. my impressions are:
none of them was a pedo.
all of them had strong ties with their families.
their praying in the middle of the day looked dumb as fuck.
if you think that the majority of refugees are violent pedophiles then you need to travel a little and educate yourself from sources other than sites like "www.jihadiwatch.com)
So you believe the innocent citizans should pay for corrupt politician's greed? I'm not saying Europe or America have these fantastic governments. They are bith horrible, with America being the worst. But everything has been fucked up by these psychopaths it's impossible for us to have a government that truly represents what the majority wants. I agree with you to a point, but you act like these people never had problems before the west exploited their rescources (which is wrong as hell). These people are hundreds of years behind thanks to Islam. Their countries had amazing mathematicians and astronomers. Who knows how far they would have advanced if it wasn't for Islam?
And what about the fact that only 1 in 5 of these migrants aren't from Syria? Your country is being fucked over. How will 3rd world people contribute in any way? I understand wanting a better life, but it's not possible to give it to everyone. And in an attempt to do so will result in the destruction of your civalization and now you and your family and all native people of the land are fucked. There are no easy answers and I'm all for helping people but when it comes between the choice of me and my family's well being and migrants which will only burden and destroy my country I will choose what's good for me and my family. The Paris attacks and huge rise in rapes isn't an indication of what's to come? If they try coming here in flocks I will do anything I can to keep people that believe in Islam out of my country.
I didn't say the majority of Muslims are violent pedophiles. But the fact that the majority endorse such a horid political ideology is why I don't want them in my country. They don't fit in western society and never will. If the choice was let them invade America or do nothing and let them figure it out on their own I'd gladly choose the latter. As far as I'm concerned, the less amount of people alive to pass on bigotry the better. I'm sure most Nazi's would appear friendly and kind, especially to another white. But I'd feel the same exact way. I don't have sympathy on anyone that supports a politcal agenda to force all humans to convert or be killed. Not too mention the other barbaric views Islam espouses.
So the information of that page is incorrect because you dislike the name of the URL? Also you are not wise to assume you know somebody you've ever met. I've traveled the world with my family since I was born until I was an adult and I continue to do so on my own. I would guess I've traveled to many more places than you. How much have you traveled? I've been to middle eastern countries. They are horrible in every way. I don't like cultures that make women cover their bodies in shame. That is disturbing to me. Also I used to drink heavly. Therefor I went to many a liquor store and have interacted with many a Muslims. I even became friends with a Muslim that owned a store.
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Germany's Merkel says refugees must return home once war is over
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Support for her conservative bloc has slipped as concerns mount about how Germany will integrate the 1.1 million migrants who arrived last year, while crime and security are also in the spotlight after a wave of assaults on women in Cologne at New Year by men of north African and Arab appearance.
"We need ... to say to people that this is a temporary residential status and we expect that, once there is peace in Syria again, once IS has been defeated in Iraq, that you go back to your home country with the knowledge that you have gained,"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH)
Do the refugees know this ? and will they be deported by germany back to Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria or will they just be allowed to take a train to Sweden and other European countries
what are the % of those that will want to go back ? after seeing Europe and having the benefits of living in Europe
Its also worth to ask what classifies as " war " ? . How long before they send home people from Iraq ? a country which has had military conflict since the 80s
'Hundreds-strong' mob of masked men rampage through Stockholm station beating up refugee children in revenge attack for female asylum centre worker killed by Somali 'boy'
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A mob of black-clad masked men went on a rampage in and around Stockholm's main train station last night beating up refugees and anyone who did not look like they were ethnically Swedish.
Before the attack, the group of 200 people handed out xenophobic leaflets with the message 'Enough now'.
Swedish media reported that the thugs, allegedly linked to Sweden's football hooligan scene, were targeting unaccompanied minors with a 'foreign' background.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html)
Worth to note that one of the reasons they picked the Stockholm Central Train station is that there a huge groups of illegal / legal refugee gangs of adults and kids hanging out there . I posted a article about the crime wave at the train station afew pages ago
Heres one for CigaretteBeer
Muslims in UK top 3 million for first time... with over 50% born outside Britain: Number in country doubles in a decade as immigration and birth rates soar
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html)
Wow that is really fucked up and sad. Last night I was watching youtube videos about Muslims in Britain. I couldn't believe the attitude of the Muslims to the native people. The ones in Britain are very hostile and get violent for simply disagreeing with them. Islam has no place in Europe and it's absurd they move to a place with a culture that clashes with theirs. I can't imagine how shitty it would feel to have your home being invaded by assholes that feel they have the right to change the culture to theirs.
Even though so many horrible acts of violence are carried out in the name of Islam people somehow believe the majority are peaceful and it's just a few bad apples that give the religion a bad name. It's not hard to find out what the teachings of Islam are so how is it that people that believe in such barbaric fascist shit are all harmless peaceful brothers and sisters of ours?And fuck it, let's invite them into our country and take care of them. There's no way any of them are terrorist. That's paranoid thinking and of course racist(somehow it's now racist to be opposed to a political theolgy) The majority of Muslims believe in Shariah Law. That really says a lot. And large numbers approve of terrorism. Those are just the ones admitting it. And no, I'm not saying every Muslim is going to commit acts of terror. But anyone who believes in such a fucked up way of life can fuck off. Most KKK members aren't committing crimes but they believe in fucked up things and are a part of the problem. So the same law applies to them; which is, they can fuck off.
What they are doing is commiting cultural genocide in Britain. These people (Muslims) are not wanted there by the native people, but Europeans are so scared of being called a racist or xenophobe they just let it happen. Brittish people are trying to prove they're not racist by letting people that despise their society invade it and eventually destroy it. That's like letting somebody fuck you in the ass to prove you're not a homophobe. Any other people would defend their land from being taken over by brainwashed followers of a pedophile, but it seems the British people have lost their balls. I would love to see those evil fuckers driven out of there but I don't see that happening soon and perhaps my Native American ancestors have cursed them for the genocide their ancestors committed. Hopefully not though because a child shouldn't pay for their father's sins. And here is a link to what I mean by cultural genocide https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide
An interesting thing I found out was that Adolf Hitler was a huge fan of Islam. It makes sense because Nazism and Islam are very similiar political ideologies. I really hope people will realize Islam is a very dangerous threat to the western world before it's too late and we have another Hitler. Many people supported Nazism until they could see how horrible it was. Maybe the first people to say it was wrong were called Naziphobes? The people that carried out 9/11 and the members of ISIS aren't distorting the Quran's teachings. They our doing exactly what their holy book commands them to do.
Here's a link to an article from The Wall Street Journel called "Why Hitler wished he was a Muslim". http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-hitler-wished-he-were-muslim-wsj.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#.Vq3sQqjnbYj (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-hitler-wished-he-were-muslim-wsj.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#.Vq3sQqjnbYj)
Link to support for Nazi Germany
http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Who-Supported-Hitler-and-Why.htm (http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Who-Supported-Hitler-and-Why.htm)
MUSLIM HOSPITALITY IN LONDON -- A SCARY VIDEO LIKE THIS COULD BE COMING TO A STREET NEAR YOU? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M&sns=em#)
you should watch some youtube videos of the brits' attitude towards the locals when they were invading pakistan/india/south africa. im sure they behaved like real gentlemen
Post some videos
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Is it true that Sweden is the rape capitol of Europe now?
Here's something interesting to think about. If it were the other way around and Europeans were invading Syria would they welcome them? I highly doubt it.
Some do say so, I dont know for sure. I can confirm that the grass is green and the girl are pretty.
Im not sure but the numbers are extremely high . Its worth noting that what Sweden classifies as Rape might be different in other countries
for example if you force your hand down a womans pant and touch or enter her vagina it is classified as rape
Im not sure if this would be sexual assault or molestation in other countries
Yes I was researching it and it's very hard to compare the numbers of rapes with many countries because there are many different legal definitions in many countries. In America it differs in each state and the word "rape" is seldom used to define sex crimes. Regardless of the figures it is obvious why this is happening. It's sexual terrorism. In my eyes the worst crime one can commit is rape. The worst variation is child molestation. I don't believe in capitol punishment but I can make an exception for rapists and child molesters. Muslims have a slightly different view than most Europeans. Their prophet was a pedophile and a rapist and fully endorses that shit.
The world truly has gone mad. The rise of PC idiots that believe they're liberals don't seem to believe in having open discusions. They will call me a bigot because I am against a political ideology that infringes upon human rights. I am truly an intolerant facist because I'm apposed to intolerance and facism. Yes that makes total sense. I am against any political ideology that promotes rape and pedophilia, sexism and hatred of homosexuals and transgendered people, genocide, and murder. It's very clear this is what the Quarn teaches. I suppose the fact that I am against Nazism is more proof of my bigotry. They have a clever tactic of accusing you of belonging to some fucked up group if you disagree with the norm. How liberal of them to name call and divide people against each other.
I was reading that 60% of the "refugees" are economic migrants. Those people should receive nothing. It truly is a horrible situation for Europe. But your leaders and all of these leftist PC idiots are to blame. Only a fool would believe mixing these people with western society would work out. Sweden should cut off welfare to these bastards as soon as possible. Even highly educated immigrants don't do well because of the welfare sytem there.
All of the people that think European citizens should have to suffer and help these people that hate western values are idiots. Is it really fair to make the people of a country suffer for their corrupt leader's sins? I don't think so. But an awful lot of your people seemed to think this was a great idea and masses of fools were happy to have these 3rd world people suck the great tit of Europe.
Here's an article on Islam and rape
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/female-al-azhar-prof-allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women (http://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/01/female-al-azhar-prof-allah-allows-muslims-to-rape-non-muslim-women)
mate, amongst your ramblings you have missed one very big thing. the reason that these refugees' countries are at war or at a fucked up state is because of the western world invading them and generally messing with their politics and peace. i believe the least a humane europe could do would be to provide refugees with accomodation and food. after all, any prosperity that the europeans have been enjoying in the few centuries past is all due to invasions, crusades, discovery of america (and all other "americas" throughout history), exploitation of the far east to name a few examples. where did all this amazing wealth come from otherwise?
i do not like any religions, especially the muslim one that is stricter than most others and requires a higher level of illiteracy to follow. i have met and become friends with various muslims from different backgrounds and under lots of circumstances. my impressions are:
none of them was a pedo.
all of them had strong ties with their families.
their praying in the middle of the day looked dumb as fuck.
if you think that the majority of refugees are violent pedophiles then you need to travel a little and educate yourself from sources other than sites like "www.jihadiwatch.com)
A big point of yours seems to be that besause Western governments destablilized Syria they are entitled to revenge on us. I'm not sure if you're familar with the history of Islamic countries invading western countries through the centeries. If we go by your logic we have to right to fuck their countries and have zero moral obligation to take these people in and help them.
How many times Muslims invaded Europe vs. Europeans invaded Muslim countries? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7y2LRcf4kc&sns=em#)
Are you aware that Muslims are the biggest proponents of slavery in history and there are Muslim countries which still practice it? It's odd how whites are viewed as the most criminal race for their involvement with slavery when Muslim's have done an insanely larger amount of damage. Here's an article about it by a BLACK PERSON
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/06/02/10-facts-about-the-arab-enslavement-of-black-people-not-taught-in-schools/ (http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/06/02/10-facts-about-the-arab-enslavement-of-black-people-not-taught-in-schools/)
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CigaretteBeer is pollution of nonsense.
Seems more like more and more countries are talking about closing up and kick them out . I guess Ice Nine was right ,
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monty burns is a genius, someone with some pull should inform world leaders about this thread
This made my day.
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http://www.thelocal.de/20160201/afd-stirs-outrage-with-comments-about-shooting-children (http://www.thelocal.de/20160201/afd-stirs-outrage-with-comments-about-shooting-children)
"Right-wing party Alternative for Germany (AfD) have come in for harsh criticism for bringing up the use of weapons against refugees at the German border.
“Do you want women with children to be denied entry [into Germany] by armed force?” a Facebook commentator asked Beatrix von Storch, deputy leader of the AfD.
The trained lawyer, who is now an MEP, replied with a simple ‘yes’, the Süddeutsche Zeitung reports.
Von Storch later backtracked from this position that children could be shot at, while maintaining that women were fair targets."
For those who don't know, "the AFD, as it’s known, is the closest thing Pegida supporters have to a real political party on the national and state level." http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-12-10/germany-s-refugee-crisis-fueling-far-right-pegida-movement (http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-12-10/germany-s-refugee-crisis-fueling-far-right-pegida-movement)
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the people who vote for the politicians are responsible for the politicians' actions. its tough but in the same way greeks are now paying back the money that former traitor governments wasted/stole. i never voted for those people but i am too paying off other peoples bad choices. i know if we took in all refugees then europe would come to an end but i dont think this end is too far anyway so im ready to take the blow.
as for liking muslims or not just consider that i come from a place where half of the population used to be muslims. and i never liked the fact that they (the ones living in my town and i'd assume the majority of them) are dirty, against progress, women dressed with those daft burkas while men are the best customers in brothels and so on. i just think that if their peace was not disturbed there would not be as many refugees/immigrants trying to enter europe. even if they had to leave their countries for whatever reason they would find other neigbouring, friendlier countries to go to.
like you i have travelled a lot too. of the 36 years that im alive i lived 8 in the uk, where i came in good contact with muslims other than the ones from my hometown (the ones from where i come from are in strong ties with turkey and are supported by germany, usa and turkey but their educational and general cultural level are far lower to the muslims that i met in the uk because the very countries that have this minority under their wing are making sure that this minority will stay as is, uneducated and stale, guided by people who dont even live in greece. i have also been to china on various business trips, turkey for a few times, egypt and not to mention europe (skate tourism and inter railing). i am all for leaving people in peace and for greed to vanish all over the world. if an empire is built on someone else's shoulders and this someone tilts a bit then the empire is going to collapse.
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Germany's Merkel says refugees must return home once war is over
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Support for her conservative bloc has slipped as concerns mount about how Germany will integrate the 1.1 million migrants who arrived last year, while crime and security are also in the spotlight after a wave of assaults on women in Cologne at New Year by men of north African and Arab appearance.
"We need ... to say to people that this is a temporary residential status and we expect that, once there is peace in Syria again, once IS has been defeated in Iraq, that you go back to your home country with the knowledge that you have gained,"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-germany-refugees-idUSKCN0V80IH)
Do the refugees know this ? and will they be deported by germany back to Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria or will they just be allowed to take a train to Sweden and other European countries
what are the % of those that will want to go back ? after seeing Europe and having the benefits of living in Europe
Its also worth to ask what classifies as " war " ? . How long before they send home people from Iraq ? a country which has had military conflict since the 80s
'Hundreds-strong' mob of masked men rampage through Stockholm station beating up refugee children in revenge attack for female asylum centre worker killed by Somali 'boy'
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A mob of black-clad masked men went on a rampage in and around Stockholm's main train station last night beating up refugees and anyone who did not look like they were ethnically Swedish.
Before the attack, the group of 200 people handed out xenophobic leaflets with the message 'Enough now'.
Swedish media reported that the thugs, allegedly linked to Sweden's football hooligan scene, were targeting unaccompanied minors with a 'foreign' background.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3423968/Mobs-hundreds-masked-men-rampage-Stockholm-central-station-beating-refugee-children.html)
Worth to note that one of the reasons they picked the Stockholm Central Train station is that there a huge groups of illegal / legal refugee gangs of adults and kids hanging out there . I posted a article about the crime wave at the train station afew pages ago
Heres one for CigaretteBeer
Muslims in UK top 3 million for first time... with over 50% born outside Britain: Number in country doubles in a decade as immigration and birth rates soar
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424584/Muslims-UK-3-million-time-50-born-outside-Britain-Number-country-doubles-decade-immigration-birth-rates-soar.html)
Wow that is really fucked up and sad. Last night I was watching youtube videos about Muslims in Britain. I couldn't believe the attitude of the Muslims to the native people. The ones in Britain are very hostile and get violent for simply disagreeing with them. Islam has no place in Europe and it's absurd they move to a place with a culture that clashes with theirs. I can't imagine how shitty it would feel to have your home being invaded by assholes that feel they have the right to change the culture to theirs.
Even though so many horrible acts of violence are carried out in the name of Islam people somehow believe the majority are peaceful and it's just a few bad apples that give the religion a bad name. It's not hard to find out what the teachings of Islam are so how is it that people that believe in such barbaric fascist shit are all harmless peaceful brothers and sisters of ours?And fuck it, let's invite them into our country and take care of them. There's no way any of them are terrorist. That's paranoid thinking and of course racist(somehow it's now racist to be opposed to a political theolgy) The majority of Muslims believe in Shariah Law. That really says a lot. And large numbers approve of terrorism. Those are just the ones admitting it. And no, I'm not saying every Muslim is going to commit acts of terror. But anyone who believes in such a fucked up way of life can fuck off. Most KKK members aren't committing crimes but they believe in fucked up things and are a part of the problem. So the same law applies to them; which is, they can fuck off.
What they are doing is commiting cultural genocide in Britain. These people (Muslims) are not wanted there by the native people, but Europeans are so scared of being called a racist or xenophobe they just let it happen. Brittish people are trying to prove they're not racist by letting people that despise their society invade it and eventually destroy it. , but it seems the British people have lost their balls. I would love to see those evil fuckers driven out of there but I don't see that happening That's like letting somebody fuck you in the ass to prove you're not a homophobe. Any other people would defend their land from being taken over by brainwashed followers of a pedophilesoon and perhaps my Native American ancestors have cursed them for the genocide their ancestors committed. Hopefully not though because a child shouldn't pay for their father's sins. And here is a link to what I mean by cultural genocide  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide
An interesting thing I found out was that Adolf Hitler was a huge fan of Islam. It makes sense because Nazism and Islam are very similiar political ideologies. I really hope people will realize Islam is a very dangerous threat to the western world before it's too late and we have another Hitler. Many people supported Nazism until they could see how horrible it was. Maybe the first people to say it was wrong were called Naziphobes? The people that carried out 9/11 and the members of ISIS aren't distorting the Quran's teachings. They our doing exactly what their holy book commands them to do.
Here's a link to an article from The Wall Street Journel called "Why Hitler wished he was a Muslim". http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-hitler-wished-he-were-muslim-wsj.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#.Vq3sQqjnbYj (http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-hitler-wished-he-were-muslim-wsj.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed#.Vq3sQqjnbYj)
Link to support for Nazi Germany
http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Who-Supported-Hitler-and-Why.htm (http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Who-Supported-Hitler-and-Why.htm)
MUSLIM HOSPITALITY IN LONDON -- A SCARY VIDEO LIKE THIS COULD BE COMING TO A STREET NEAR YOU? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP6U6Hhy_2M&sns=em#)
Not gonna get in you guys little squabble but I gotta admit I spit my food out laughing at this example. Too fucking funny...
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Ill post this up again . Im interested in hearing what Alan , Tufty , excitableboy and the rest of you guys
IIf war broke out in your country . Would you stay and fight ? or would you become a refugee ? .
Would you leave behind your mother , wife , kids and go to some other country and hope that IF you get to stay , IF you get a job , IF you get a house and IF you get money you will send for them ?
Or stay and fight for your side , and help your family and friends in your home country ?
Heres another of Montys horrible examples
Sweden is a pretty stable country , But I guess if the Swedish king made a grasp for power and decided that all jews in sweden must be killed , or a genocide against blue eyed people . Splitting the police and military in 2 factions . A civil war in Sweden
Or for any reason a civil war starts in your country and there is a side to pick
I would rather stay and fight
It's an interesting question. Those with military training and experience will make up the majority of fighters on either side. Those people will probably become a regional army. There will be a large influx of people, both veteran and civilian, rushing to join when it starts but the lack of "embracing the suck" for lack of better term, will probably lead to many of those civilians falling out when it's opportune.
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Migrant centre banned from holding memorial to Swedish social worker 'stabbed to death by Somali boy, 15' in case it upsets refugee children
Staff at asylum centre banned from holding memorial for murdered woman
Social workers in Örnsköldsvik also told not to fly flag at half mast
Council said decision to ban was to secure the well being of the children
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426793/Migrant-centre-banned-holding-memorial-Swedish-social-worker-stabbed-death-Somali-boy-15-case-upsets-refugee-children.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426793/Migrant-centre-banned-holding-memorial-Swedish-social-worker-stabbed-death-Somali-boy-15-case-upsets-refugee-children.html)
The lawless asylum centre where migrants rule: Inside squalid Swedish shelter that police will not enter, where 10-year-old boy was raped and that has just TWO staff on duty for 600 refugees
The tiny room is crammed full of all the family's worldly possessions. Dirty dishes, baby bottles and an old kettle fight for space with a glowing tablet computer, in a room eight metres square that is now home to six people.
Amid the squalor, a sick child lies sleeping on an old mattress on the floor, inches from a filthy sink that doubles as bathroom and kitchen.
These are the conditions inside one of Sweden's most notorious asylum centres - where youths were free to rape a ten-year-old boy and where police now refuse to enter after being chased away in a riot.
Signalisten Asylum Centre in Västerås, an hour west of Stockholm, was once a hotel welcoming people to the town of 133,000 people.
Today, 600 men, women and children sleep in its grubby rooms, guarded by just two night-time staff who are too scared to leave their rooms.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3425640/The-lawless-asylum-centre-migrants-rule-Inside-squalid-shelter-ten-year-old-boy-raped-police-not-enter-just-TWO-staff-duty-600-refugees.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3425640/The-lawless-asylum-centre-migrants-rule-Inside-squalid-shelter-ten-year-old-boy-raped-police-not-enter-just-TWO-staff-duty-600-refugees.html)
Refugee crisis will cost Germany £38 BILLION by the end of 2017, new study claims
The German Economic Institute, which is based in Cologne, put together a projection for feeding, housing and educating the children of one million-plus migrants who have entered the country.
Angela Merkel's government is reported to already be dreaming up new ways of taxing people - in what is already one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world - to help foot the bill.
If Europe fails on the question of refugees ... then it won't be the Europe we wish for,' said Merkel in August.
However, speaking at at an event in Mainz, near Frankfurt on January 11, Merkel admitted the European refugee crisis was 'out of control'.
She said: 'Now all of a sudden we are facing the challenge that refugees are coming to Europe and we are vulnerable, as we see, because we do not yet have the order, the control, that we would like to have.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426354/Refugee-crisis-cost-Germany-38BILLION-end-2017-new-study-claims.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426354/Refugee-crisis-cost-Germany-38BILLION-end-2017-new-study-claims.html)
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More than 10,000 refugee children missing in Europe
More than 10,000 unaccompanied refugee and migrant children have disappeared in Europe, the EU police agency Europol said on Sunday, fearing many have been whisked into sex trafficking rings or the slave trade.
"It's not unreasonable to say that we're looking at 10,000-plus children," Donald told The Observer, adding that 5,000 had disappeared in Italy alone.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/10000-refugee-children-missing-europe-160131164555450.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/01/10000-refugee-children-missing-europe-160131164555450.html)
Shocking footage claims to show a group of migrant men 'attacking two pensioners who stood up for a woman they were harassing on the Munich subway'
Shocking footage has surfaced online appearing to show a group of young migrants attacking two German pensioners after they stood up for a young women the men were harassing on a subway train.
Recorded on a mobile phone, the disgraceful video shows the men - of Eastern European or Arabic origin - holding one man by the arms as they verbally abuse him.
The second victim is seen grappling with one of the migrants, before he is held up by the neck and threatened.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426947/Shocking-footage-claims-group-migrant-men-attacking-two-pensioners-stood-woman-harassing-Munich-subway.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426947/Shocking-footage-claims-group-migrant-men-attacking-two-pensioners-stood-woman-harassing-Munich-subway.html)
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All kinds of phobia in this thread. When the Berlin Wall fell, 15 million refugees entered Germany. They can take a few million even if some of them will cling to a desert ideology. Many whites in the west do too, and many among them still bite their tongue at gays and women. It took years (edit: centuries, actually) for the more free of thought to get them to do that. Transplant muslims will pose a challenge, undoubtedly, but why give up so cowardly? Aren't you a fighter, Monty?
As I said before I probably would not stay and fight, if my country was to turn Sharia. In my opinion, flight never really got the credit it deserves. It's the fighter who defies logic we admire, but really, if I'd want to protect my hypothetical wife and daughter my best bet is to leave. Of course this is all useless speculation. Safe to say I'm not about to stand up to a possessed militia of rapists, however. They want me dead much more than I ever could them.
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All kinds of phobia in this thread. When the Berlin Wall fell, 15 million refugees entered Germany. They can take a few million even if some of them will cling to a desert ideology. Many whites in the west do too, and many among them still bite their tongue at gays and women.
The question is why ? . If you already have lets say 1 million homophobes in germany . Why Import 1 million more ? Why spend 39 Billion on
These people ? we already know tons of them are economical refugees who should not be in the country to start with . They are just wasting the money that could have been put to good use
Why set up refugee camps in europe when we could have just set them up in syria ?
Transplant muslims will pose a challenge, undoubtedly, but why give up so cowardly? Aren't you a fighter, Monty?
I am a fighter but why shoot yourself in the leg to just post a challenge ? Lets fight for Sweden and Europe to have the best schools in the world , the best healthcare in the world , The most freedom in the world . Lets make sure all of the EU focuses on making the environment much better and having the right rules for our planet
All the billions Europe is wasting on the " refugees " could have done wonders in school programs , integration programs , environmental programs . Imagine what good the 39 billion the germans are spending could have done in the schools and healthcare
As I said before I probably would not stay and fight, if my country was to turn Sharia. In my opinion, flight never really got the credit it deserves.
Question is why should you leave ? Not sure if you ever said what country you are from excitableboy , but I assume you are from a democratical country in the EU ? . Why should your whole family have to leave your country cause some bullies want to change everything ?
Back in school when you saw some poor kid getting bullied did you join in ? did you ignore it ? or did you help the kid getting bullied ?
Why should I leave my home , my country and my democracy , just cause the threat of violence ? or death ?
It's the fighter who defies logic we admire, but really, if I'd want to protect my hypothetical wife and daughter my best bet is to leave. Of course this is all useless speculation. Safe to say I'm not about to stand up to a possessed militia of rapists, however.
What kind of lesson is that for your hypothetical children and wife ? . What about standing up for what is right ? or standing up for your house , your home or your country
If somebody wants your house do you just give it to them ? do you give it to them if they threaten you with violence ?
what if they want your wife and children ? do you give it to them without a fight ?
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hahaha all kinds of phobia on idiots who read the daily fail. for fucks sake, whoever it is who cites the daily mail: be sure that this right wing tabloid crapload has succeeded in scaremongering. it is owned by someone not much different than donald tramp and is notorious for the bs they are promoting. i am very impressed there are skaters out there who read this crap. get a grip people we are skaters, supposedly lying outside the herd.
but yeah, nike
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hahaha all kinds of phobia on idiots who read the daily fail. for fucks sake, whoever it is who cites the daily mail: be sure that this right wing tabloid crapload has succeeded in scaremongering. it is owned by someone not much different than donald tramp and is notorious for the bs they are promoting. i am very impressed there are skaters out there who read this crap. get a grip people we are skaters, supposedly lying outside the herd.
but yeah, nike
Its also one of the biggest media on the internet . And its much easier for me to post story from daily mail , then posting the swedish story and then translating it to english
The german pensioners who are getting attacked on video in the daily mail are not getting less assaulted by refugees in the NY Times
The swedish girl who got murderd by a refugee is not less dead in the NY Times
Its also worth to say that when Swedish media and Swedish police are covering up refugee crimes its Important to have media who are not covering it up .
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More good news from germany
Horror at German migrant centre as Syrian father is arrested for attempted murder for throwing his three young children from a first-floor window
A refugee father has been arrested for attempted murder in Germany after allegedly throwing his three children from a window at their emergency accommodation centre.
Police received an emergency call in Lohmar in the west of Germany on Monday from a man who said he saw the children falling one by one from the first-floor window of the asylum seekers centre.
When medics reached the scene they found two of the children with serious injuries and they were both helicoptered to a nearby hospital.
A third child, aged one, was returned to his mother after treatment for light injuries after being kept overnight in hospital for observation.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3427696/Horror-German-migrant-centre-Syrian-father-arrested-attempted-murder-throwing-three-young-children-floor-window.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3427696/Horror-German-migrant-centre-Syrian-father-arrested-attempted-murder-throwing-three-young-children-floor-window.html)
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hahaha all kinds of phobia on idiots who read the daily fail. for fucks sake, whoever it is who cites the daily mail: be sure that this right wing tabloid crapload has succeeded in scaremongering. it is owned by someone not much different than donald tramp and is notorious for the bs they are promoting. i am very impressed there are skaters out there who read this crap. get a grip people we are skaters, supposedly lying outside the herd.
but yeah, nike
Its also one of the biggest media on the internet . And its much easier for me to post story from daily mail , then posting the swedish story and then translating it to english
The german pensioners who are getting attacked on video in the daily mail are not getting less assaulted by refugees in the NY Times
The swedish girl who got murderd by a refugee is not less dead in the NY Times
Its also worth to say that when Swedish media and Swedish police are covering up refugee crimes its Important to have media who are not covering it up .
I would have thought there are more international news publications, other than the misinforming piece of shit that is the daily fail that cover these issues. Maybe you can't find any that satisfy your expectations on the way the news are presented. By this i mean that you might actually WANT to read that the refugees are causing mayhem and you struggle to find other sources that say so. In any case, even if there are no other publications that fiddle with the issue (which i strongly doubt and cant even be arsed to look for), I would still prefer to not read any news than read fake/altered news. Mind that it doesn't take but a few words put in different places to alter the meaning of a text. Now, if you are looking for sites that present Sweden's issue, just think that there are many other countries that have similar problems with refugees but the DF emphasises on sweden's issues only to justify the horrible decision that your goverment has taken (that has been ridiculed by every person capable of reading and thinking) to strip refugees of their possessions - thus further promoting poverty and theft. Expect articles about Germany soon (if not already out) and even more articles that prepare the ground for other governments to take extreme measures without which the "european peace" would be disturbed.
I believe the ny times are biased too. Why wouldn't they be? are there any newsgroups that are unbiased? in my opinion even the "leftist" sites are full of shit. Fuck, maybe i have lost all hope and am now contradicting myself as to what I said in the first 3-4 lines here but still the DF should close down and whoever works for them should be executed.
Looks like they did some interesting articles on health, cannabis, homosexuals and some other subjects. I would expect their articles that cover the refugee crisis to be of the same quality and legitimacy if not even "better".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail
ok no more rants im out for a sk8about
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All kinds of phobia in this thread. When the Berlin Wall fell, 15 million refugees entered Germany. They can take a few million even if some of them will cling to a desert ideology. Many whites in the west do too, and many among them still bite their tongue at gays and women.
The question is why ? . If you already have lets say 1 million homophobes in germany . Why Import 1 million more ? Why spend 39 Billion on
These people ? we already know tons of them are economical refugees who should not be in the country to start with . They are just wasting the money that could have been put to good use
Why set up refugee camps in europe when we could have just set them up in syria ?
Transplant muslims will pose a challenge, undoubtedly, but why give up so cowardly? Aren't you a fighter, Monty?
I am a fighter but why shoot yourself in the leg to just post a challenge ? Lets fight for Sweden and Europe to have the best schools in the world , the best healthcare in the world , The most freedom in the world . Lets make sure all of the EU focuses on making the environment much better and having the right rules for our planet
All the billions Europe is wasting on the " refugees " could have done wonders in school programs , integration programs , environmental programs . Imagine what good the 39 billion the germans are spending could have done in the schools and healthcare
As I said before I probably would not stay and fight, if my country was to turn Sharia. In my opinion, flight never really got the credit it deserves.
Question is why should you leave ? Not sure if you ever said what country you are from excitableboy , but I assume you are from a democratical country in the EU ? . Why should your whole family have to leave your country cause some bullies want to change everything ?
Back in school when you saw some poor kid getting bullied did you join in ? did you ignore it ? or did you help the kid getting bullied ?
Why should I leave my home , my country and my democracy , just cause the threat of violence ? or death ?
It's the fighter who defies logic we admire, but really, if I'd want to protect my hypothetical wife and daughter my best bet is to leave. Of course this is all useless speculation. Safe to say I'm not about to stand up to a possessed militia of rapists, however.
What kind of lesson is that for your hypothetical children and wife ? . What about standing up for what is right ? or standing up for your house , your home or your country
If somebody wants your house do you just give it to them ? do you give it to them if they threaten you with violence ?
what if they want your wife and children ? do you give it to them without a fight ?
Please Monty stop asking me to repeat myself.
As I said a number of times now, I think it's the right thing to do. That's why we should, not because we like a challenge. The Berlin wall didn't fall because people got bored with their daily routine and needed a challenge.
We're not importing anyone, if we were, there wouldn't be tens of thousands of dead people on the bottom of the Mediterranean. For whom I've yet to see a memorial service, by the way. Even if it had been possible for us to set up enough camps in Syria (it was not), those people would have come here anyway. You're kidding yourself and trying to kid everybody else here. Keep bringing up economical refugees, about whom i'm obviously not talking. Balkans need to go, how many times do you want me to say that? Just concede that true refugees are also in part economical refugees. They need help and are coming to the people best equipped to give it to them. Indeed, we are the nearest people to them who might. Are they really to blame for not standing up to a bunch of rabid dogs backed by filthy rich oil pimps? Never mind Assad and other armies. Doesn't make any sense.
And why are you riling up my hypothetical wife and children against me? You asked me to consider what I'd do if everything went medieval in my country, so don't give me this shit. If IS were all up in Europe and it was up to the people to fight them, obviously we are vastly outnumbered in that scenario. Our armies would already be defeated. Hence my remark that such a scenario is so far from our current situation that it would be really silly to indulge you. But don't propose an all-out-war thought experiment and when I go along with it get all blas� like 'oh they ask for your house and you just give it to them like that, really?' Take your own thoughts seriously for once.
Let me put it differently: most Holocaust survivors didn't sit around and wait, or bravely fought the Nazi's. It's crazy to me that you (say you) would stick around in such a scenario, but in this one you opt to hide behind a gate with your tail between your legs. By doing that, you are also leaving your democracy, can't you see that? You will still be in Sweden, but it won't be the same Sweden. It's that Sweden which responded cheaply to a refugee problem, then covered up the public raping of its women, then panicked and sent away real refugees.
You said before that Sweden/Europe is just not ready to deal with this. You don't have 5000 extra police for this problem. That is of course nonsense. This refugee problem is a perfect example of what you have an army for. Building temporary housing for some 100,000 people is a challenge, but really not that big of a deal. Go ahead, keep saying it is, posting shitty articles thinking you make some kind of point. We set up camps for thousands of our own in their countries all the time, when we go over there to 'set them free' and whatnot. You seem to have no idea what money and armed forces are capable of. If Sweden or Europe can't muster up the resources to integrate them (and yes, send back non-Syrians etc.), it really is a lowpoint for 'our' culture. So far we are looking pretty reactionary and primitive.
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Slightly off topic, but no one has asked the question of why private industries aren't cashing in on this? Not saying at all that I think they should. It's just kind of obvious given how big the prison and military industrial complexes are.
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Slightly off topic, but no one has asked the question of why private industries aren't cashing in on this? Not saying at all that I think they should. It's just kind of obvious given how big the prison and military industrial complexes are.
at least in austria, some of the bigger refugee camps are run by private companies that get paid by the state (ridiculous amounts, as i might add)..
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Why set up refugee camps in europe when we could have just set them up in syria ?
Monty, you must have a really bad memory. Just check the first page for an answer to your question. If that's too difficult, here's a more recent map, with the numbers of displaced/refugees in Syria and the neighbouring countries. On top of that, the EU is funding the humanitarian efforts in the region. You would know that if you actually took the time to research the topics that supposedly interest you. The info isn't out of reach, you just need to google key words. Remember, things are happening outside of Sweden and the DM website, too.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ32JykWkAAn61G.jpg (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZ32JykWkAAn61G.jpg)
Btw, at what point will you actually start fighting the refugees? You keep posting here as if the end of the world (well, Sweden) is around the corner, and asking people if they would fight, but you don't seem to be doing much besides posting links and repeating ignorant bs. Time to start hoarding food and weapons! Also, when you start fighting (GRRRRRR!!!!!), you won't be able to pull your "I vote Green!" card, seeing as they're against violence.
And regarding that German subway vid, this (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/muenchner-u-bahn-polizei-identifiziert-drei-schlaeger-nach-veroeffentlichung-von-pruegelvideo-1.2846298) German newspaper writes that the guy who filmed the vid told the paper that he did go to the police, which turned out to be false. He also claimed that the attackers left the car and started shoving people on the platform, while the CCTV footage showed that they did not. Police also said that it would have been better to press the emergency button rather than film.
In the DM article they say that the filmer didn't go to the police because he believed that the police wouldn't do anything, whereas the SZ claims that the police are in fact investigating the incident because someone else in the car, presumably one of the attacked pensioners, actually went to the police, which is when the police contacted the filmer. The police was able to identify three attackers, all of them Afghan.
But please, keep taking their articles at face value, I'm sure they're not trying to misinform the public.
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For Esquivel
By this i mean that you might actually WANT to read that the refugees are causing mayhem
If you are suggesting that in a thread where Im trying to show you guys how much the current refugee situation is fucking up the EU , then yes I am looking for articles to prove my point . But this is hardly difficult when most days you can find articles in all papers on how they "behave"
Now, if you are looking for sites that present Sweden's issue, just think that there are many other countries that have similar problems with refugees but the DF emphasises on Sweden's issues only to justify the horrible decision that your government has taken
Sweden was one of the countries who were most positive in taking in the refugees , telling everybody that Sweden can do it and will be fine . But that ended pretty quick . Sweden is there for a shining example how refugee handling and integration is a major fuck up
I believe the ny times are biased too. Why wouldn't they be? are there any newsgroups that are unbiased? in my opinion even the "leftist" sites are full of shit.
Everybody has a agenda , you cant 100% trust any media
for brycickle and Hercules Rockefeller
Slightly off topic, but no one has asked the question of why private industries aren't cashing in on this? Not saying at all that I think they should. It's just kind of obvious given how big the prison and military industrial complexes are.
Its the same all over Europe I think , The private comparison know the government needs the space so they hike up the prices ALOT
for excitableboy
You're kidding yourself and trying to kid everybody else here. Keep bringing up economical refugees, about whom i'm obviously not talking. Balkans need to go, how many times do you want me to say that? Just concede that true refugees are also in part economical refugees
What about the Afghans ? the Tunisians ? the Somalis ? the Moroccans ? . I used to have a good friend who used to go visit his family in Kabul each year . In fact you can still fly to Afghanistan for about 400 euros . There is still a issue with the Taliban in Afghanistan but is it big enough to have millions of Afghans in Europe ?
What about the Somalis ? Moroccans ? Tunisians ?
If IS were all up in Europe and it was up to the people to fight them, obviously we are vastly outnumbered in that scenario. Our armies would already be defeated. Hence my remark that such a scenario is so far from our current situation that it would be really silly to indulge you. But don't propose an all-out-war thought experiment and when I go along with it get all blas� like 'oh they ask for your house and you just give it to them like that, really?' Take your own thoughts seriously for once.
Let me put it differently: most Holocaust survivors didn't sit around and wait, or bravely fought the Nazi's. It's crazy to me that you (say you) would stick around in such a scenario
Every country that were invaded by the Nazi or the countries supporting the Nazis had rebel groups . Espionage , sabotage , assassinations
The Jewish had support groups for smuggling out jews , for giving weapons , food and other valuables to other Jews . Swedes volunteered
to the Army in USA , England and Norway . There were small rebel groups helping Danish Jews hide in Sweden
Raoul Wallenberg . He is widely celebrated for saving tens of thousands[5] of Jews in Nazi-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust from German Nazis and Hungarian Fascists during the later stages of World War II. While serving as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest between July and December 1944, Wallenberg issued protective passports and sheltered Jews in buildings designated as Swedish territory
Dont give up hope excitableboy , even if you are occupied and all hope is gone , If you are willing to risk your life there is still good you can do
You will still be in Sweden, but it won't be the same Sweden. It's that Sweden which responded cheaply to a refugee problem, then covered up the public raping of its women, then panicked and sent away real refugees.
Sweden is getting fucked by the refugee situation . But its because the refugees we have changed . If there wasnt such a shit situation where Sweden for some reason has to prove we are not anti Muslim , anti refugees . Swedens government and Sweden Police wouldn't have to cover up and lie about that refugee commit crimes in Sweden
You said before that Sweden/Europe is just not ready to deal with this. You don't have 5000 extra police for this problem. That is of course nonsense. This refugee problem is a perfect example of what you have an army for. Building temporary housing for some 100,000 people is a challenge, but really not that big of a deal.
Swedens 4th or 5th biggest city is about 100 thousand . You dont think a whole new city in Sweden is a big deal ? . If its no big deal why have the Socialist Party ( who rule Sweden ) Lost most of its voters ? why is there talk about a new election ? why is there talk about having the PM leave his position ?
If its no big deal why has the Swedish immigration service said they cant handle it ? if its no big deal why did the PM of Sweden come out in a press conference and say we need to close the border cause we cant handle it anymore ? Why is the police saying they need 4000 new police to deal with the situation ?
And when ever the military is involved somebody gets shot .
For Alan
Monty, you must have a really bad memory. Just check the first page for an answer to your question. If that's too difficult, here's a more recent map, with the numbers of displaced/refugees in Syria and the neighbouring countries. On top of that, the EU is funding the humanitarian efforts in the region. You would know that if you actually took the time to research the topics that supposedly interest you. The info isn't out of reach,
I know this , but thats not what Im saying . Im saying ALL camps in Syria and Afghanistan and no camps in Europe . I saw the map you posted on the first page And I belive I said I was wrong and thanked you ?
Anyways some camps close to Syria is not enough, still had 200k refugees coming into Sweden and 1 million into Germany . All camps should be over there
Btw, at what point will you actually start fighting the refugees?
I thought we have been doing it for some time now ? greeks forcing boats back . Hungary and other countries throwing up barb wire fences . Women in Germany and Sweden fighting back to not get raped ? Police arresting refugees in all countries for sexual assault , rape , assault , murder , attempt of murder ?
The swedish refugee worker who got stabbed to death was trying to fight for her life .
Time to start hoarding food and weapons
Im not sure about the food , but
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108)
http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html)
seems like alot of people are taking you up on your advice
Also, when you start fighting (GRRRRRR!!!!!), you won't be able to pull your "I vote Green!" card, seeing as they're against violence.
Why not ? If I agree on 90% of the Green Partys platform but not 10% . Does that mean I cant vote on the green party ?
Its still probably higher then I would agree with other parties platform
What if the fighting started mid term ? I cant change who I voted for . So even if there was a war and if the green party was against it
I couldnt change my vote and I would have still voted for the green party
If there was a civil war in Sweden I assume the green party would make up a new platform so neither you or me could say now what the their platform would be
German newspaper writes that the guy who filmed the vid told the paper that he did go to the police, which turned out to be false
In the DM article they say that the filmer didn't go to the police because he believed that the police wouldn't do anything,
So DM was correct ? whats your point ?
SZ claims that the police are in fact investigating the incident because someone else in the car, presumably one of the attacked pensioners, actually went to the police, which is when the police contacted the filmer. The police was able to identify three attackers, all of them Afghan.
Soooo ? more poor refugees that need germany to keep them safe is attacking german senior citizens and trying to molest german women ?
Oh and Alan . You forgot to answer my last reply to you . Im pretty sure you forgot about it and didnt ignore it . If you need help to find it I can post the link , or just copy paste it with my next post
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for excitableboy
You're kidding yourself and trying to kid everybody else here. Keep bringing up economical refugees, about whom i'm obviously not talking. Balkans need to go, how many times do you want me to say that? Just concede that true refugees are also in part economical refugees
What about the Afghans ? the Tunisians ? the Somalis ? the Moroccans ? . I used to have a good friend who used to go visit his family in Kabul each year . In fact you can still fly to Afghanistan for about 400 euros . There is still a issue with the Taliban in Afghanistan but is it big enough to have millions of Afghans in Europe ?
What about the Somalis ? Moroccans ? Tunisians ?
Uhh...try that again. I guess none of the above made sense to you either, at which point you opted to just repeat some nationalities? That is my best guess.
If IS were all up in Europe and it was up to the people to fight them, obviously we are vastly outnumbered in that scenario. Our armies would already be defeated. Hence my remark that such a scenario is so far from our current situation that it would be really silly to indulge you. But don't propose an all-out-war thought experiment and when I go along with it get all blas� like 'oh they ask for your house and you just give it to them like that, really?' Take your own thoughts seriously for once.
Let me put it differently: most Holocaust survivors didn't sit around and wait, or bravely fought the Nazi's. It's crazy to me that you (say you) would stick around in such a scenario
Every country that were invaded by the Nazi or the countries supporting the Nazis had rebel groups . Espionage , sabotage , assassinations
The Jewish had support groups for smuggling out jews , for giving weapons , food and other valuables to other Jews . Swedes volunteered
to the Army in USA , England and Norway . There were small rebel groups helping Danish Jews hide in Sweden
Raoul Wallenberg . He is widely celebrated for saving tens of thousands[5] of Jews in Nazi-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust from German Nazis and Hungarian Fascists during the later stages of World War II. While serving as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest between July and December 1944, Wallenberg issued protective passports and sheltered Jews in buildings designated as Swedish territory
Dont give up hope excitableboy , even if you are occupied and all hope is gone , If you are willing to risk your life there is still good you can do
My grandfather was in the resistance. I'm not sure why I mention that but I feel with you I have to offer some kind of genetic qualification if I want anything to register at all. In any case, my point still stands. The few (jews) who are recognized for those deeds are indeed, few. For the obvious reason I already emphasized. But should push come to shove, by all means, try your hand at being a dead hero. To each their own.
You will still be in Sweden, but it won't be the same Sweden. It's that Sweden which responded cheaply to a refugee problem, then covered up the public raping of its women, then panicked and sent away real refugees.
Sweden is getting fucked by the refugee situation . But its because the refugees we have changed . If there wasnt such a shit situation where Sweden for some reason has to prove we are not anti Muslim , anti refugees . Swedens government and Sweden Police wouldn't have to cover up and lie about that refugee commit crimes in Sweden
They had to cover it up, really? You conceded that pretty easily. Why shouldn't refugees rape to keep their peace? What a strange point of view. If there had been reports, the army could have been sooner involved in aiding the police.
You said before that Sweden/Europe is just not ready to deal with this. You don't have 5000 extra police for this problem. That is of course nonsense. This refugee problem is a perfect example of what you have an army for. Building temporary housing for some 100,000 people is a challenge, but really not that big of a deal.
Swedens 4th or 5th biggest city is about 100 thousand . You dont think a whole new city in Sweden is a big deal ? . If its no big deal why have the Socialist Party ( who rule Sweden ) Lost most of its voters ? why is there talk about a new election ? why is there talk about having the PM leave his position ?
If its no big deal why has the Swedish immigration service said they cant handle it ? if its no big deal why did the PM of Sweden come out in a press conference and say we need to close the border cause we cant handle it anymore ? Why is the police saying they need 4000 new police to deal with the situation ?
And when ever the military is involved somebody gets shot .
Common folk are going hysterical and politicians dignify it by saying what they want to hear? The socialist party is down in the polls during a time when humanitarian values are under attack? You don't say!
No, it is not really a big deal. Not as big as allowing women to be raped in broad daylight for years on end, anyway. And not as big as thousands of desperate people drowning, or being sent to rot near Calais or wherever they make it, only for the Swedes to return blissfully to their servings of meatballs.
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Look excitableboy I need a day or 2 away from this thread , I spent most the night looking at numbers of incoming refugees , unemployment rates , lack of housing numbers and some short documentaries about Swedish immigration . Im over it for afew days . Ill get back to you
I just moved back to Sweden basicly and Im thinking about moving to another country just cause of the shit storm that is awaiting Sweden
Ill be back later when Alan mans up and answers my 2 last posts he ignored
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For Esquivel
By this i mean that you might actually WANT to read that the refugees are causing mayhem
If you are suggesting that in a thread where Im trying to show you guys how much the current refugee situation is fucking up the EU , then yes I am looking for articles to prove my point . But this is hardly difficult when most days you can find articles in all papers on how they "behave"
Now, if you are looking for sites that present Sweden's issue, just think that there are many other countries that have similar problems with refugees but the DF emphasises on Sweden's issues only to justify the horrible decision that your government has taken
Sweden was one of the countries who were most positive in taking in the refugees , telling everybody that Sweden can do it and will be fine . But that ended pretty quick . Sweden is there for a shining example how refugee handling and integration is a major fuck up
I believe the ny times are biased too. Why wouldn't they be? are there any newsgroups that are unbiased? in my opinion even the "leftist" sites are full of shit.
Everybody has a agenda , you cant 100% trust any media
for brycickle and Hercules Rockefeller
Slightly off topic, but no one has asked the question of why private industries aren't cashing in on this? Not saying at all that I think they should. It's just kind of obvious given how big the prison and military industrial complexes are.
Its the same all over Europe I think , The private comparison know the government needs the space so they hike up the prices ALOT
for excitableboy
You're kidding yourself and trying to kid everybody else here. Keep bringing up economical refugees, about whom i'm obviously not talking. Balkans need to go, how many times do you want me to say that? Just concede that true refugees are also in part economical refugees
What about the Afghans ? the Tunisians ? the Somalis ? the Moroccans ? . I used to have a good friend who used to go visit his family in Kabul each year . In fact you can still fly to Afghanistan for about 400 euros . There is still a issue with the Taliban in Afghanistan but is it big enough to have millions of Afghans in Europe ?
What about the Somalis ? Moroccans ? Tunisians ?
If IS were all up in Europe and it was up to the people to fight them, obviously we are vastly outnumbered in that scenario. Our armies would already be defeated. Hence my remark that such a scenario is so far from our current situation that it would be really silly to indulge you. But don't propose an all-out-war thought experiment and when I go along with it get all blas� like 'oh they ask for your house and you just give it to them like that, really?' Take your own thoughts seriously for once.
Let me put it differently: most Holocaust survivors didn't sit around and wait, or bravely fought the Nazi's. It's crazy to me that you (say you) would stick around in such a scenario
Every country that were invaded by the Nazi or the countries supporting the Nazis had rebel groups . Espionage , sabotage , assassinations
The Jewish had support groups for smuggling out jews , for giving weapons , food and other valuables to other Jews . Swedes volunteered
to the Army in USA , England and Norway . There were small rebel groups helping Danish Jews hide in Sweden
Raoul Wallenberg . He is widely celebrated for saving tens of thousands[5] of Jews in Nazi-occupied Hungary during the Holocaust from German Nazis and Hungarian Fascists during the later stages of World War II. While serving as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest between July and December 1944, Wallenberg issued protective passports and sheltered Jews in buildings designated as Swedish territory
Dont give up hope excitableboy , even if you are occupied and all hope is gone , If you are willing to risk your life there is still good you can do
You will still be in Sweden, but it won't be the same Sweden. It's that Sweden which responded cheaply to a refugee problem, then covered up the public raping of its women, then panicked and sent away real refugees.
Sweden is getting fucked by the refugee situation . But its because the refugees we have changed . If there wasnt such a shit situation where Sweden for some reason has to prove we are not anti Muslim , anti refugees . Swedens government and Sweden Police wouldn't have to cover up and lie about that refugee commit crimes in Sweden
You said before that Sweden/Europe is just not ready to deal with this. You don't have 5000 extra police for this problem. That is of course nonsense. This refugee problem is a perfect example of what you have an army for. Building temporary housing for some 100,000 people is a challenge, but really not that big of a deal.
Swedens 4th or 5th biggest city is about 100 thousand . You dont think a whole new city in Sweden is a big deal ? . If its no big deal why have the Socialist Party ( who rule Sweden ) Lost most of its voters ? why is there talk about a new election ? why is there talk about having the PM leave his position ?
If its no big deal why has the Swedish immigration service said they cant handle it ? if its no big deal why did the PM of Sweden come out in a press conference and say we need to close the border cause we cant handle it anymore ? Why is the police saying they need 4000 new police to deal with the situation ?
And when ever the military is involved somebody gets shot .
For Alan
Monty, you must have a really bad memory. Just check the first page for an answer to your question. If that's too difficult, here's a more recent map, with the numbers of displaced/refugees in Syria and the neighbouring countries. On top of that, the EU is funding the humanitarian efforts in the region. You would know that if you actually took the time to research the topics that supposedly interest you. The info isn't out of reach,
I know this , but thats not what Im saying . Im saying ALL camps in Syria and Afghanistan and no camps in Europe . I saw the map you posted on the first page And I belive I said I was wrong and thanked you ?
Anyways some camps close to Syria is not enough, still had 200k refugees coming into Sweden and 1 million into Germany . All camps should be over there
Btw, at what point will you actually start fighting the refugees?
I thought we have been doing it for some time now ? greeks forcing boats back . Hungary and other countries throwing up barb wire fences . Women in Germany and Sweden fighting back to not get raped ? Police arresting refugees in all countries for sexual assault , rape , assault , murder , attempt of murder ?
The swedish refugee worker who got stabbed to death was trying to fight for her life .
Time to start hoarding food and weapons
Im not sure about the food , but
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108)
http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html)
seems like alot of people are taking you up on your advice
Also, when you start fighting (GRRRRRR!!!!!), you won't be able to pull your "I vote Green!" card, seeing as they're against violence.
Why not ? If I agree on 90% of the Green Partys platform but not 10% . Does that mean I cant vote on the green party ?
Its still probably higher then I would agree with other parties platform
What if the fighting started mid term ? I cant change who I voted for . So even if there was a war and if the green party was against it
I couldnt change my vote and I would have still voted for the green party
If there was a civil war in Sweden I assume the green party would make up a new platform so neither you or me could say now what the their platform would be
German newspaper writes that the guy who filmed the vid told the paper that he did go to the police, which turned out to be false
In the DM article they say that the filmer didn't go to the police because he believed that the police wouldn't do anything,
So DM was correct ? whats your point ?
SZ claims that the police are in fact investigating the incident because someone else in the car, presumably one of the attacked pensioners, actually went to the police, which is when the police contacted the filmer. The police was able to identify three attackers, all of them Afghan.
Soooo ? more poor refugees that need germany to keep them safe is attacking german senior citizens and trying to molest german women ?
Oh and Alan . You forgot to answer my last reply to you . Im pretty sure you forgot about it and didnt ignore it . If you need help to find it I can post the link , or just copy paste it with my next post
and you still choose to cite articles from the daily fail haha
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I think you should ignore him already. Using dailymail repeateadly as a source is a rock bottom.
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I'm just glad that there aren't more Montys in this thread and that most people involved are making reasonable arguments.
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Look excitableboy I need a day or 2 away from this thread , I spent most the night looking at numbers of incoming refugees , unemployment rates , lack of housing numbers and some short documentaries about Swedish immigration . Im over it for afew days . Ill get back to you
I just moved back to Sweden basicly and Im thinking about moving to another country just cause of the shit storm that is awaiting Sweden
Ill be back later when Alan mans up and answers my 2 last posts he ignored
Sure, I understand. You're like a one-man thinktank over there. Take a few months if you need to.
Then when you come back, we'll see how much of your hysteria is warranted. You would have to be out of Sweden indeed, because from what you are describing I don't think they will still have internet then. I recommend Iceland. It's the most homogeneous country and an awful long swim.
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Sweden goes insane? Is Sweden lost for good? ISLAM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJlNZVlhang&sns=em#)
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Damn. Nazis have the same arguments worldwidely. I swear greek nazis had the exact same arguments in Greece when the crisis started and blamed immigrants for everything.
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Why don't you dudes get into politics since you guys have such passion on this... ? Your politicians have betrayed you, so either leave or take them over. Good to see mosque burning starting to grow around Northern Europe. That should carry a reward or some shit, Islam is a death cult
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Wouldn't you leave?
https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153492613721939/ (https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153492613721939/)
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To me the refugee, immigrant, and general pc notion that it's unacceptable to generalize in anyway is lefts equililent to the gun rights stance on the right. Both are ideological stances that ignore statisics and empirical infavor of ivory tower logic and both come at the cost of innocent people suffering. I think it's perfectly reasonable if your a gun nut and feel kids getting shot up is worth that freedom or if your a PC freak and feel that women getting raped, concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does. Super liberal gun laws increase gun violence and super liberal policies on immigration and refugees also increases violent crime. Maybe it's worth it to your political beliefs, maybe it's not but at least man up to the cost. Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
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concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does.
How did the refugee crisis cause EU citizens to kill people at a concert in Paris? Is that what you're referring to? And what statistics are you talking about? And what do they prove? That a small percentage of the refugees are criminals? So?
Also, not wanting to leave millions of people in a war zone or in overcrowded camps does not make one a "PC freak." Or are you suggesting some kind of "tough love" policy, where the refugees have to learn to survive without international aid or a safe place to live, but are then super thankful for having been taught a valuable life lesson (unless they die first)?
Btw, the refugees too are "innocent people suffering."
Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
I know. Just look what happened to America when they let in all those poor people.
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To me the refugee, immigrant, and general pc notion that it's unacceptable to generalize in anyway is lefts equililent to the gun rights stance on the right. Both are ideological stances that ignore statisics and empirical infavor of ivory tower logic and both come at the cost of innocent people suffering. I think it's perfectly reasonable if your a gun nut and feel kids getting shot up is worth that freedom or if your a PC freak and feel that women getting raped, concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does. Super liberal gun laws increase gun violence and super liberal policies on immigration and refugees also increases violent crime. Maybe it's worth it to your political beliefs, maybe it's not but at least man up to the cost. Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
this^
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concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does.
How did the refugee crisis cause EU citizens to kill people at a concert in Paris? Is that what you're referring to? And what statistics are you talking about? And what do they prove? That a small percentage of the refugees are criminals? So?
Also, not wanting to leave millions of people in a war zone or in overcrowded camps does not make one a "PC freak." Or are you suggesting some kind of "tough love" policy, where the refugees have to learn to survive without international aid or a safe place to live, but are then super thankful for having been taught a valuable life lesson (unless they die first)?
Btw, the refugees too are "innocent people suffering."
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Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
I know. Just look what happened to America when they let in all those poor people.
who for the most part spoke the same language, shared the same religious beliefs and had the drive and work ethic to make a life for themselves and didn't expect the government to support them...
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concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does.
How did the refugee crisis cause EU citizens to kill people at a concert in Paris? Is that what you're referring to? And what statistics are you talking about? And what do they prove? That a small percentage of the refugees are criminals? So?
Also, not wanting to leave millions of people in a war zone or in overcrowded camps does not make one a "PC freak." Or are you suggesting some kind of "tough love" policy, where the refugees have to learn to survive without international aid or a safe place to live, but are then super thankful for having been taught a valuable life lesson (unless they die first)?
Btw, the refugees too are "innocent people suffering."
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Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
I know. Just look what happened to America when they let in all those poor people.
what year are we talking about here ? when did america let in " these people " ?
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Four-fifths of Germans want border controls
The poll, conducted by Initiative Markt- und Sozialforschung (Initiative for Market and Social Research) shows a big turnaround in opinion on the migrant crisis in recent weeks.
Well over half - 59 percent - of respondents thought Chancellor Angela Merkel had been wrong to allow Syrian refugees to travel unhindered to Germany from Hungary.
That was a big turnaround from the last poll on the subject, in which 66 percent of people asked said it had been the right decision to let the Syrians in.
http://www.thelocal.de/20151006/four-fifths-of-germans-want-border-controls (http://www.thelocal.de/20151006/four-fifths-of-germans-want-border-controls)
81% of Germans say Merkel has made a mess of the migrant situation as her popularity hits five-year low
Chancellor has dropped 12 points to just 46% in approval poll in one month
88% are in favour of reducing benefits for 'integration-reluctant' refugees
63% say there should be limit to how many asylum seekers are allowed in
Germany saw 1.1 million migrants arrive last year and 91,000 last month
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3431244/81-Germans-say-Merkel-mess-migrant-situation-popularity-hits-five-year-low.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3431244/81-Germans-say-Merkel-mess-migrant-situation-popularity-hits-five-year-low.html)
Germany: over 91,000 asylum-seekers arrived in January
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3431266/Germany-91-000-asylum-seekers-arrived-January.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3431266/Germany-91-000-asylum-seekers-arrived-January.html)
And as for Sweden
Socialdemokraterna till 23 procent - den lägsta nivån sedan mätningarna startade för 26 år sedan.
The social Democrats who are in charge of Sweden had over 30% when the election was held . But now thanks to their actions during the refugee crisis have gone down to 23% . The lowest support in 26 years
Moderaterna går framåt med 3,4 procentenheter och får nu 27,2 procent
The Moderate Party has gone up almost 4% and is now getting 27% . Its noted that they were for free imigration last time they were in charge . The lost the election . Now they have changed the direction of their refugee politics and are now on the rise
The Swedish Democrats which have the most hardline politics against the refugee crisis is at almost 19% and the third biggest party in Sweden now . If the Modorate and Swedish Democrats join together they can take over the politics of Sweden
There is alot of talk about holding a new election and not waiting until 2018 , and there is talk about voting on a new budget for Sweden
Sweden Democrats rise in voting % . This is in parallel with the rise of Refugee intake
2002:1.4%
2006:2.9%
2010:5.7%
2014:12.9%
2015:15.8%
2016: 19%
The only really big things that have happend in Sweden since the election of the Social Democrats :
The Swedish foreign minister banned from israel
The Police Scandals about lying / covering up refugee crimes
The refugee crisis
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/politik/moderaterna-rycker-ifran-medan-s-rasar/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/politik/moderaterna-rycker-ifran-medan-s-rasar/)
Migrationsverket släpper sin prognos
140 000 asylsökande, varav 27 000 ensamkommande barn.
Swedish Migration offices (The ones who deal with refugees ) releases its prognosis for 2016
Up to 140 000 asylum seekers , 27 000 which will be children without anyone with them
Noted that these are only the ones seeking asylum . Not the ones entering the country illegally and going under ground
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/migrationsverket-slapper-sin-prognos/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/migrationsverket-slapper-sin-prognos/)
For those that said bombing / military action would have no effect on ISIS
Number of ISIS fighters dropped by 20 per cent in the last year thanks to deaths and desertions, US intelligence report finds
Number of ISIS fighters dropped by 20 per cent in the last year thanks to deaths and desertions, US intelligence report finds
ISIS fighters are defecting and being killed in battle, while flow of new recruits is slowing down, officials claimed in the report Thursday
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433006/US-officials-claim-modest-progress-fight-against-ISIS-number-terrorist-fighters-decrease-estimated-25-000-troops.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3433006/US-officials-claim-modest-progress-fight-against-ISIS-number-terrorist-fighters-decrease-estimated-25-000-troops.html)
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As this discussion is going nowhere, maybe you should start spamming those links on your facebook page instead.
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Hey Alan . You forgot to answer my questions and my replies to your questions . I have to assume that you forgot them . I would hate to think you are too much of a coward to answer them
To reiterate, you asked about personal decisions in a hypothetical situations, then started going on about government contingency plans as if that was what you asked about. Even you can see that there's a discrepancy there.
I asked several question , you are just trying to lump them into one , and claiming it has nothing to do with the thread . I gave several options for you to answer a "what would you do " for you to be open to answer
A fire or a crash are very simple situations
Are they ? how many thousands die every year cause they did stupid things and panicked ? How many thousands die every year cause they stay inside a burning house to try to help people , or who get lost in the house thanks to fire and smoke ?
How many people start even bigger fires by pouring water on grease and oil fires thinking it will end the fire ?
you didn't ask what we would do if we were in the Syrians' position, but rather what we would do if a war broke out in our country
You refuse to answer the question cause you would have to imagine your country being in a civil war ?
but you would be ok with imagine your self being Syrian and being at war ?
You're jumping from topic to topic again.
Am I ? Countries voting on how to deal with refugees in the thread about how to deal with refugees is jumping topic ?
The point of this topic is to discuss and debate the refugee crisis in Europe
So yeah ? what you would do if you were in the position of a refugee and votes about the refugee crisis are not relevant to the discussion
Maybe you should post some rules to this thread on what exactly we are allowed to talk about
seeing as you are a high school dropout who's not very bright
You keep bringing that up , how is that relevant to this discussion ?
Me asking a " What would you do if you were in shoes of a syrian " or " what would you do if civil war broke out in your country :
are not relevant in a discution about refugees
But me not wanting to take Spanish or math is relevant in a discussion about refugees ?
Yes, that is exactly the point of this discussion, minus the shitty Merkel remark. Now that you know, maybe you'll begin to think about making relevant points.
You know maybe I was wrong , maybe the Swedish government and Merkel is watching this thread . Seems like the view on who is a legit refugee and who is not is becoming quite clear. Is there any country who is talking about expanding their refugee intake ?
Seems more like more and more countries are talking about closing up and kick them out . I guess Ice Nine was right ,
Monty, you must have a really bad memory. Just check the first page for an answer to your question. If that's too difficult, here's a more recent map, with the numbers of displaced/refugees in Syria and the neighbouring countries. On top of that, the EU is funding the humanitarian efforts in the region. You would know that if you actually took the time to research the topics that supposedly interest you. The info isn't out of reach,
I know this , but thats not what Im saying . Im saying ALL camps in Syria and Afghanistan and no camps in Europe . I saw the map you posted on the first page And I belive I said I was wrong and thanked you ?
Anyways some camps close to Syria is not enough, still had 200k refugees coming into Sweden and 1 million into Germany . All camps should be over there
Btw, at what point will you actually start fighting the refugees?
I thought we have been doing it for some time now ? greeks forcing boats back . Hungary and other countries throwing up barb wire fences . Women in Germany and Sweden fighting back to not get raped ? Police arresting refugees in all countries for sexual assault , rape , assault , murder , attempt of murder ?
The swedish refugee worker who got stabbed to death was trying to fight for her life .
Time to start hoarding food and weapons
Im not sure about the food , but
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-assaults-guns-idUSKBN0UM27F20160108)
http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/migrant-crisis/migrant-crisis-gun-sales-in-austria-surge-amid-fears-of-refugee-crime-20151027-gkkdus.html)
seems like alot of people are taking you up on your advice
Also, when you start fighting (GRRRRRR!!!!!), you won't be able to pull your "I vote Green!" card, seeing as they're against violence.
Why not ? If I agree on 90% of the Green Partys platform but not 10% . Does that mean I cant vote on the green party ?
Its still probably higher then I would agree with other parties platform
What if the fighting started mid term ? I cant change who I voted for . So even if there was a war and if the green party was against it
I couldnt change my vote and I would have still voted for the green party
If there was a civil war in Sweden I assume the green party would make up a new platform so neither you or me could say now what the their platform would be
German newspaper writes that the guy who filmed the vid told the paper that he did go to the police, which turned out to be false
In the DM article they say that the filmer didn't go to the police because he believed that the police wouldn't do anything,
So DM was correct ? whats your point ?
SZ claims that the police are in fact investigating the incident because someone else in the car, presumably one of the attacked pensioners, actually went to the police, which is when the police contacted the filmer. The police was able to identify three attackers, all of them Afghan.
Soooo ? more poor refugees that need germany to keep them safe is attacking german senior citizens and trying to molest german women ?
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As this discussion is going nowhere, maybe you should start spamming those links on your facebook page instead.
Posting links with articles showing facts about how the refugee crisis is fucked and how people feel about accepting all these refugees are valid points in this discussion
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To me the refugee, immigrant, and general pc notion that it's unacceptable to generalize in anyway is lefts equililent to the gun rights stance on the right. Both are ideological stances that ignore statisics and empirical infavor of ivory tower logic and both come at the cost of innocent people suffering. I think it's perfectly reasonable if your a gun nut and feel kids getting shot up is worth that freedom or if your a PC freak and feel that women getting raped, concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does. Super liberal gun laws increase gun violence and super liberal policies on immigration and refugees also increases violent crime. Maybe it's worth it to your political beliefs, maybe it's not but at least man up to the cost. Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
OF course its that. However what are the ideas behind this Ideological stances??? The one is the idea of the supermacist European-American that is more entitled to resources and stealing them from undeveloped nations having to supress them when they dare to ask for a portion of that, using violence and racist propaganda. The other idea is the humanitarian one that says all people should have a portion of the produced wealth that can provide them a decent quality of life, which is totally achievable but you have to disturb some rich folks. Choose a side but when you choose No1 stop wondering why people call you a racist prick or a Nazi.
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You keep bringing that up , how is that relevant to this discussion ?
It's relevant because you're not capable of understanding simple concepts and arguments, causes and effects, and argue from the point of emotion rather than rationality. The sooner you realise that the better.
If it's cowardly not to answer idiotic questions, then by all means, I'm a coward. If you think that fear mongering on the internet is brave, then by all means, you're a hero.
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who for the most part spoke the same language, shared the same religious beliefs and had the drive and work ethic to make a life for themselves and didn't expect the government to support them...
This is off topic, but the millions of immigrants to the US during the past two centuries definitely didn't mostly speak the same language, nor did they have the same religion. They worked hard because they were looking for work, which is why they emigrated to the US. And they didn't expect the government to support them because there was no system in place. But if you think that they were content with the way things were, read up on the labour movement.
The reason I mentioned American immigrants is that there were also criminals among them, some of whom were organised, e.g. the Mafia, the Triads, but did that warrant the expulsion of whole ethnic populations? No.
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You keep bringing that up , how is that relevant to this discussion ?
It's relevant because you're not capable of understanding simple concepts and arguments, causes and effects, and argue from the point of emotion rather than rationality. The sooner you realise that the better.
If it's cowardly not to answer idiotic questions, then by all means, I'm a coward. If you think that fear mongering on the internet is brave, then by all means, you're a hero.
So the fact that I didnt want to take spanish and math in high school is valid in a discussion about the refugee crisis ? . You are ridiculous
And things are not rational in the real world Alan . Look at the difference between sunni and shiite . They are quite similar in religion yet they are waging a bloody war in Iraq
Its not rational to hijack 3 planes full of humans and fly those planes into building to kill more humans
It would be rational that humans could live in the same country and respect eachother . But this is not the case .
It would also be rational that when the Majority of Europe doesnt want millions of refugees into europe . Then the ones who dont agree would accept it
I would also ad the only reason you want to let these "refugees" into the country is cause you feel sorry for them . Which is a EMOTIONAL response which you accuse me of when I give a RATIONAL response looking at peoples views , the housing shortage , budgets and integration
There is your rational point of view . Coward
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who for the most part spoke the same language, shared the same religious beliefs and had the drive and work ethic to make a life for themselves and didn't expect the government to support them...
This is off topic, but the millions of immigrants to the US during the past two centuries definitely didn't mostly speak the same language, nor did they have the same religion. They worked hard because they were looking for work, which is why they emigrated to the US. And they didn't expect the government to support them because there was no system in place. But if you think that they were content with the way things were, read up on the labour movement.
The reason I mentioned American immigrants is that there were also criminals among them, some of whom were organised, e.g. the Mafia, the Triads, but did that warrant the expulsion of whole ethnic populations? No.
What on earth are you talking about , the whole start of the united states of america is built on the genocide of a entire people
I do assume you recognize the native americans a ethnic population ?
Following that they had a war against England , Then a war which dealt with if one race was basicly slaves or not . You had asians basicly being slaves to build the rail roads , sacrificing thousands . You had a segregate sociaty with blacks and whites . Where black people couldnt even drink out of the same fountains as white people
New York has been super segregated since the days of mid-19th century . Freaking gangs of new york was based on true events . Different religions and ethnicities fighting against each other
Later many burrows of new york were largely segregated .
Even today in 2016 you have huge parts of cities segregated with minorities . Look at all the "ghettos" in Los Angeles , Detroit , Chicago .
This is your example of different nationality , religions and races integrating and working together ?
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who for the most part spoke the same language, shared the same religious beliefs and had the drive and work ethic to make a life for themselves and didn't expect the government to support them...
This is off topic, but the millions of immigrants to the US during the past two centuries definitely didn't mostly speak the same language, nor did they have the same religion. They worked hard because they were looking for work, which is why they emigrated to the US. And they didn't expect the government to support them because there was no system in place. But if you think that they were content with the way things were, read up on the labour movement.
The reason I mentioned American immigrants is that there were also criminals among them, some of whom were organised, e.g. the Mafia, the Triads, but did that warrant the expulsion of whole ethnic populations? No.
OK they all didn't speak the same language...what language do most of them speak now? Ever heard of assimilation?
OK so they didn't ALL share the same religion....which ones of them had beliefs and groups tied to them who were murdering non-believers randomly worldwide? It was off topic, and I did say "for the most part" I don't really have a dog in this fight. It was late, I was tired and just seen your comment as reaching. And btw I hardly think the labor movement was strictly "an immigrant movement". Granted all US citizens are immigrants to some degree. It was an organized effort to improve conditions in a country where a system of freedom existed to have such a movement. Carry on fellas. Sorry for interupting
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So the fact that I didnt want to take spanish and math in high school is valid in a discussion about the refugee crisis ?
No, but not being able to finish high school and not being very bright is probably the reason why you can't seem to understand the situation, and are reacting emotionally. You only react to the negative aspects of the refugee crisis because that is what the media is feeding you. You have no capacity to think critically.
Case in point: a small percentage of economic immigrants and refugees are breaking the country's laws and you want them all out, not caring if they die. That is irrational, because it is not the whole population that is criminal. This point has been made several times, but you just can't seem to grasp it. It's not rational to condemn a whole population because of a minority. Saying that the terrorists are irrational is a straw man argument, and doesn't change the fact that you yourself are irrational. Personal involvement can often cloud one's judgment, and in your case, given your mental capacity, I'd say it's getting pretty dark.
On the other hand, helping people in need isn't irrational, or emotional. It's just the ethical thing to do.
What on earth are you talking about
Thanks for a fresh example of your struggle with reading comprehension.
Let me break it down for you:
Sleazy's argument was that refugees shouldn't be let in because all you get is crime
-> my counterargument was that the US let in tens of millions of overwhelmingly poor economic immigrants (not slaves, got it?) during the last two centuries, only a percentage of which turned out to be criminals, while the rest were not. The same is true for the refugees. Some are criminals, but the majority are not. In fact, a large percentage of them are highly educated, and even more have a high school diploma, and only want to live and work in a safe place. It's really simple.
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I feel I need to clarify something. I don't think it's a problem that you're dense. The problem is that you're posting racist crap but that you're too dense to understand that it's racist.
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No, but not being able to finish high school and not being very bright is probably the reason why you can't seem to understand the situation
The Swedish school system is based on a point system , each course / class is worth a set of points . Me deciding not to 2 classes . Spanish B and Math D , gave me 90 points short from graduating . Even if I failed the classes would mean I would get the points . But I decided to not take the classes . That has nothing to do with " not being able to finish high school " . Thats a choice
but you just can't seem to grasp it. It's not rational to condemn a whole population because of a minority
I never said all the refugees are rapist , criminals or terrorist . My whole argument this whole time is that most of the "refugees " are not refugees . And that the strain on the countries they are entering is not worth taking them in
There is no advantage taking them in , Intergration is not working , there is a serious housing shortage , there is already high unemployment , And we cant even take care of them well in the refugee homes that we set up for them . And its a economical nightmare
You only react to the negative aspects of the refugee crisis because that is what the media is feeding you.
The Swedish media is out right covering up refugee crimes as are the swedish police . How is the media feeding me negative aspects ?
You have no capacity to think critically.
When the country with the most libiral refugee politics , who took in most refugees by capita . Decides to close their borders
maybe its time for you to have some critical thinking
When the majority of people in europe says we cant handle more refugees , maybe its time for you to have some critical thinking
My reasoning when we cant house them , we cant integrate them into our society , that its costing us billions upon billions , that huge parts of the refugees are not even real refugees , that we cant find jobs for them , that its a huge economical strain on all countries in the EU
that is critical thinking . Your idea that we must save them just to save them is emotional thinking and has nothing to do with reality
my counterargument was that the US let in tens of millions of overwhelmingly poor economic immigrants (not slaves, got it?) during the last two centuries, only a percentage of which turned out to be criminals, while the rest were not. The same is true for the refugees
I would understand if your point made any sense . You seem to make the case that the US let in all these people and it worked out just fine.
I told you that the USA is hugely segregated , Entire parts of cities are filled with segregation , And in the past 200 years in America it was racialy divided . People couldnt even drink from the same fountains or use the same bathrooms without being arrested
crime statistics are extremly high . Doesnt the USA have the highest population in jail of any country ??
The whole system of lobbying politicians is corrupt as fuck . Heck if you ask Tufty USA is one of the most corrupt and evil
nations in the world , He blames them for pretty much everything
And the country has waged several wars against other nations , with or without the UNs approval
The current Syrian war which caused part of this refugee crisis is partly USAs fult
If anything your example that the USA took in all these people is a argument that it was wrong to do so
feel I need to clarify something. I don't think it's a problem that you're dense. The problem is that you're posting racist crap
Nothing Ive posted have been racist . I dont care if these millions of people ( refugees ) are White , Black , Asian , Latin , Pink or blue
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To me the refugee, immigrant, and general pc notion that it's unacceptable to generalize in anyway is lefts equililent to the gun rights stance on the right. Both are ideological stances that ignore statisics and empirical infavor of ivory tower logic and both come at the cost of innocent people suffering. I think it's perfectly reasonable if your a gun nut and feel kids getting shot up is worth that freedom or if your a PC freak and feel that women getting raped, concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does. Super liberal gun laws increase gun violence and super liberal policies on immigration and refugees also increases violent crime. Maybe it's worth it to your political beliefs, maybe it's not but at least man up to the cost. Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
i don't see how having policies and standards around who and how many people come into your country, especially when there is a valid issue of public safety and when those countries are relatively socialized is a binary racist prick or humanitarian saint type issue. we're only discussing at what level and not discussing all or none. calling anyone that has a different idea about the types of immigration policies that they would like to see in place than you a racist is so silly it's hard to take serious. it's like when conservatives call anyone who's in favor of any kind of goverment spending a socialist. the pejoratives aren't helping and there not making people feel bad about or change their beliefs.
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Sleazy's argument was that refugees shouldn't be let in because all you get is crime
-> my counterargument was that the US let in tens of millions of overwhelmingly poor economic immigrants (not slaves, got it?) during the last two centuries, only a percentage of which turned out to be criminals, while the rest were not. The same is true for the refugees. Some are criminals, but the majority are not. In fact, a large percentage of them are highly educated, and even more have a high school diploma, and only want to live and work in a safe place. It's really simple.
that actually wasn't my argument and isn't even close. you actually reiterated my argument in bold. my point was that regardless of how you feel, letting in a lot of poor will bring with it some percentage of violent crime. some innocent people will suffer because of that policy. i was pointing out that this is the same as in the gun argument how a small percentage of legal gun owners use the for violence. we all pay that cost for people to have that right. i'm just pointing out that there is a cost associated with it and that it's really annoying when in either debate people dance around the cost. to say it's a small percentage isn't going to to make the women who got raped or the people who got gunned downed in paris situation any different or less tragic. there is a real human cost that has to be paid and the people who are speaking out against this simply have different moral priorities than you. talking from the point of view of absolute correctness like you are doing doesn't make you look smart, rational or morally superior, it makes you seem self rightous and immature. i'd like to see someone who feels so strong about this, explain that belief to one of the victims families. i'd imagine the tone would be a little different and you might be a little less likely to call that person a racist if they felt differently about it than you.
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Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
I was going by this. And I will again remind you that most of the Paris attackers were EU citizens, born and bred.
In any case, the cost of not helping the poor and desolate masses is even greater. No one here who wants to help the refugees is saying that there is no cost, no idea where you got that from. No one here wants the rapists to go free. But saying that it's only a small percentage is necessary, to prevent more tragedies. And why would anyone talk about statistics to the victims or their families in any scenario? That's always a bad move, no idea why you brought it up here.
i'd like to see someone who feels so strong about this, explain that belief to one of the victims families.
I'd like to see someone with your POV explain to the refugees that they can't be allowed into Europe because there are potential criminals among them. I'm sure that they wouldn't see it a reasonable argument for keeping them in a war zone.
And your comparison with the guns issue makes you look insensitive to the millions on the run. I see what you're saying, but the comparison doesn't hold water.
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How could it make me seem insensitive when I have taken a position. I have only commented on the positions with statements that you mostly agreed with. People rushing up on ships to save whales seem crazy to me but that doesn't mean I'm insensitive to whales, it just mean I'm not an activist.
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I was going by this. And I will again remind you that most of the Paris attackers were EU citizens, born and bred.
This just proves even more that integration is not working . They were in 2 good countries , Belgium and France where you have freedom of religion , free school and free health care . Maybe their parents were even refugees taken in by the EU
And yet they were Radicalised by family , friends or at the mosques they attend by radicals
No one here who wants to help the refugees is saying that there is no cost
The cost gets higher and higher for each day . There is a limit on how much money , space , jobs , and criminal acts Sweden and EU has
I'd like to see someone with your POV explain to the refugees that they can't be allowed into Europe because there are potential criminals among them. I'm sure that they wouldn't see it a reasonable argument for keeping them in a war zone.
They are not all from War zones . Thats the problem its less then 1 in 5 of these "refugees" that are from Syria . You need to sort all the ones on fake passports , and all the ones claiming they are under age when not . Sort out all the ones lying about what country they are from
20% or less of the almost 200 000 Sweden accepted are from Syria . I can only imagine how it is in the rest of Europe
There are several political parties / governments who can explain to them why they cant come . We even have specialized government agencies set up for it
Oh and you missed my questions in the last post again . Maybe its a issue of being dense ? ,
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How could it make me seem insensitive when I have taken a position. I have only commented on the positions with statements that you mostly agreed with. People rushing up on ships to save whales seem crazy to me but that doesn't mean I'm insensitive to whales, it just mean I'm not an activist.
Right. Ok, thanks.
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I was going by this. �And I will again remind you that most of the Paris attackers were EU citizens, born and bred.
This just proves even more that integration is not working . They were in 2 good countries , Belgium and France where you have freedom of religion , free school and free health care . Maybe their parents were even refugees taken in by the EU
And yet they were Radicalised �by family , friends or at the mosques they attend by radicals
One crow does not a winter make. Not that I would say immigration in Europe is a great success, quite the opposite in some areas. It's telling that perhaps the most unsuccessful city in this respect is Bruxelles. Many countries, and the EU in general, have neglected longstanding problems with estranged youth. Rarely do family/first generation immigrants have any say in their radicalisation actually, mostly they seem as surprised as you are.
They are not all from War zones . Thats the problem its less then 1 in 5 of these "refugees" that are from Syria . You need to sort all the ones on fake passports , and all the ones claiming they are under age when not . Sort out all the ones lying about what country they are from
20% or less of the almost 200 000 Sweden accepted are from Syria . I can only imagine how it is in the rest of Europe
Right, so we are actually talking about 40.000 immigrants in Sweden. (Edit: in any case, far less than 200,000, depending on who you deem eligible.) Send the rest back and help the 20%, why send them back too?
By the way, you touched on their freedom of religion, which gets at the heart of the problem. Of course we should have rid ourselves of that schizophrenic piece of lawmaking long ago, but we're stuck with it for now. Hence our moral obligation to turn the same blind eye towards Islam that we do the other handful of recognized religions. Without this in our constitutions, the appalling passages in their scripture would be illegal as much as 'normal' hate speech is. But that is another thread altogether perhaps.
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Monty, we're going in circles. I'm just responding to the bogus stuff you post. For example, saying that they're not all from war zones. Which is true. Then adding that only 1 in 5 are Syrian. Which is also probably true. But Syria is not the only war zone. And I think you know that, and I think you left that out on purpose.
Btw:
"It is not acceptable that people who want to seek asylum are being segregated by nationalities. The right to ask for asylum is universal and cannot be connected to certain nationalities," said Stephane Moissaing, MSF head of mission in Serbia.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/refugee-nationalities-screened-borders-witnesses-151119180736277.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/refugee-nationalities-screened-borders-witnesses-151119180736277.html)
I think it's hilarious how you fund an organization which is in total contradiction to your beliefs. Reminds of this
http://www.thelocal.de/20141117/charity-turns-neo-nazi-march-into-fundraiser-wunseidel (http://www.thelocal.de/20141117/charity-turns-neo-nazi-march-into-fundraiser-wunseidel)
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For excitableboy
One crow does not a winter make. Not that I would say immigration in Europe is a great success, quite the opposite in some areas. It's telling that perhaps the most unsuccessful city in this respect is Bruxelles. Many countries, and the EU in general, have neglected longstanding problems with estranged youth. Rarely do family/first generation immigrants have any say in their radicalisation actually, mostly they seem as surprised as you are.
This is were jobs and a place to live comes in . Giving people a purpose and self worth . But as Ive said numerous times both in Sweden and the EU there is huge unemployment rates . And Im not sure how it is in rest of EU , but the housing shortage is extreme in Sweden . Swedes cant even find a place to live , the waiting list is years .
So when even Swedes cant find a job or home , how can we expect to give refugees we are trying to integrate ? The cheapest places to live in Sweden are the "ghettos" where most people are from the same countries as the refugees , All the jobs , all the schools and all the houses . How do you get integrated in a society when its basicly like you are not in Sweden ?
In many of the ghettos there is basicly sharia law , there are sharia law guards patrolling in Sweden . This is a huge problem for integration and terrorism . I believe Sweden has the most people who left to join ISIS
Right, so we are actually talking about 40.000 immigrants in Sweden. (Edit: in any case, far less than 200,000, depending on who you deem eligible.) Send the rest back and help the 20%, why send them back too?
I would most defiantly be for to help the syrians fleeing the war . I would prefer that we do it over in syria with camps and military . But yes I do want to help them . But its not the first year Sweden has taken refugees . Sweden has been topping the list in the world / EU several years in a row . It adds up . That is why we need a total stop in refugees
cause we have been full for years , with illegals who wont leave , and real war refugees
By the way, you touched on their freedom of religion, which gets at the heart of the problem. Of course we should have rid ourselves of that schizophrenic piece of lawmaking long ago, but we're stuck with it for now. Hence our moral obligation to turn the same blind eye towards Islam that we do the other handful of recognized religions. Without this in our constitutions, the appalling passages in their scripture would be illegal as much as 'normal' hate speech is. But that is another thread altogether perhaps.
Sorry dont understand what you mean here , Are you saying we should outlaw religion ? or what do you mean ?
For Alan
Monty, we're going in circles. I'm just responding to the bogus stuff you post
Abit yes , but we are both trying to prove a point , which we prob wont change views in . What bothers me when you post
that you simply ignore things when you dont have a point or when Im correct . Just ignoring questions is a horrible
way to discuss a subject
But Syria is not the only war zone. And I think you know that, and I think you left that out on purpose.
What is a war zone ? . I mean Somalia is fucked , but this is not cause of the EU or The USA or Nato . Nato and the USA tried to help
but they shot at us . Is Sweden a better country then Somalia sure . Then there is Tunisia , Morocco and maybe 100s
of other countries where people are poor , it might be abit sketchy , but not really war
Why are they seeking asylum ? Cause the EU and Sweden is a better country . Specially the Nordic countries and Germany . Even if you are just seeking asylum with no chance of getting it . You still get money , food , housing , medical care , dental care and you drain the system of real refugees from war zones
Sweden is specially fucked here cause our system is horrible . We are not even allowed to age check them cause the government has decided its against their human rights . You will even get paid to leave Sweden . I almost think its a conspiracy
Sweden and the EU cant take all the people in the world who has it worse then the EU . Then the EU would become what they are trying to escape
And Alan you are simply rude . You ignore facts , you ignore questions . and you give half assed insults . Sleazy had many good points and you basicly ignored them
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To Sleazy,
I agree that, on some level, this discussion boils down to a utilitarian dilemma. Either we protect an uncertain number of rape victims, or we protect an uncertain amount of refugees. I think we should shoot to minimize both and I don't think that is naive or idealistic. I realize there must be victims, we cannot avoid it altogether (as I've said all along in this thread).
To even begin to consider choosing either would for me require a clear cut situation, and of course there never is one. I can see some people opt for one or the other to be on the safe side, though. No Swedes were directly culpable for putting those refugees in their predicament, but if they 'allow rape to happen', they would feel directly involved in facilitating this state of affairs. I suppose faraway people do weigh less heavily on one's conscience than close-to-home people, so when put so binary this problem is relatively easily solved.
What I'm getting at is that I'm no utilitarian and I think very few people are in most situations. Because most situations cannot be reduced to a binary opposition, where you choose one and then export the downside of the decision abroad. It is a choice to sketch this problem as such, and I'm not a fan of that choice is all.
For excitableboy
One crow does not a winter make. Not that I would say immigration in Europe is a great success, quite the opposite in some areas. It's telling that perhaps the most unsuccessful city in this respect is Bruxelles. Many countries, and the EU in general, have neglected longstanding problems with estranged youth. Rarely do family/first generation immigrants have any say in their radicalisation actually, mostly they seem as surprised as you are.
This is were jobs and a place to live comes in . Giving people a purpose and self worth . But as Ive said numerous times both in Sweden and the EU there is huge unemployment rates . And Im not sure how it is in rest of EU , but the housing shortage is extreme in Sweden . Swedes cant even find a place to live , the waiting list is years .
So when even Swedes cant find a job or home , how can we expect to give refugees we are trying to integrate ? The cheapest places to live in Sweden are the "ghettos" where most people are from the same countries as the refugees , All the jobs , all the schools and all the houses . How do you get integrated in a society when its basicly like you are not in Sweden ?
In many of the ghettos there is basicly sharia law , there are sharia law guards patrolling in Sweden . This is a huge problem for integration and terrorism . I believe Sweden has the most people who left to join ISIS
We seem to be in agreement about this. Well, I do think you are exaggerating the problems at least for Europe at large. I wouldn't know about Sweden as well as you. It is also worth noting though that there are many people in Europe whose grandparents were, for example, Berbers on camels who had never been governed before. They have arguably made some of the largest leaps in progression out of any group. But yes, there are still plenty of problems. I argue this is a failure of our states at least as much as of the 'New Europeans', so to say. At the time, we indeed imported those potential problems and over the past decades have allowed them to foster. We shouldn't take that as a reason to turn away (again, real) refugees, in my opinion.
Right, so we are actually talking about 40.000 immigrants in Sweden. (Edit: in any case, far less than 200,000, depending on who you deem eligible.) Send the rest back and help the 20%, why send them back too?
I would most defiantly be for to help the syrians fleeing the war . I would prefer that we do it over in syria with camps and military . But yes I do want to help them . But its not the first year Sweden has taken refugees . Sweden has been topping the list in the world / EU several years in a row . It adds up . That is why we need a total stop in refugees
cause we have been full for years , with illegals who wont leave , and real war refugees
It's been said countless times now, we do help them there. To suggest helping all Syrians in Syria is just not realistic. Like I said above, this suggests there is an easy solution to the crisis.
By the way, you touched on their freedom of religion, which gets at the heart of the problem. Of course we should have rid ourselves of that schizophrenic piece of lawmaking long ago, but we're stuck with it for now. Hence our moral obligation to turn the same blind eye towards Islam that we do the other handful of recognized religions. Without this in our constitutions, the appalling passages in their scripture would be illegal as much as 'normal' hate speech is. But that is another thread altogether perhaps.
Sorry dont understand what you mean here , Are you saying we should outlaw religion ? or what do you mean ?
No, not at all. I've discussed this on a philosophy forum and it was controversial even there, so maybe we shouldn't get too far into it. My point, in a thimble, is that most western constitutions, who often claim to be secular, put religious dogma on a pedestal by making a distinction between two orders of thought (namely that of some religions on the one hand, and of all other thought on the other). There is no need for this as I see it, and it leads to some pretty absurd situations. Those laws were put in place to stop religion from influencing and controlling states, but in our time serves religions in operating free from influence and control by states.
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Monty, don't be offended. I've pointed out where your arguments were wrong and answered your questions where possible. I've also pointed out the fallacies you've made. And I'm not the only one who's noticed them. If I didn't answer, it was usually because your question/argument was repetitive, pointless, irrelevant or logically flawed. This I've explained already. If it offends you that I point out flaws in your argument, well, tough. Learn how to argue.
Regarding war zones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
People coming to Europe are mostly refugees, no need for the quotation marks. But you knew that already, too.
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The EU owes slap a great debt of gratitude for solving this crisis.
I for one, think it's marvellous what you guys have achieved.
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The EU owes slap a great debt of gratitude for solving this crisis.
I for one, think it's marvellous what you guys have achieved.
Well done smart guy. Humanity owes you big because of your wit
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
To me the refugee, immigrant, and general pc notion that it's unacceptable to generalize in anyway is lefts equililent to the gun rights stance on the right. Both are ideological stances that ignore statisics and empirical infavor of ivory tower logic and both come at the cost of innocent people suffering. I think it's perfectly reasonable if your a gun nut and feel kids getting shot up is worth that freedom or if your a PC freak and feel that women getting raped, concerts getting shot up, ect is worth it for your belief but it's so frustrating when either side argues that one thing doesn't cause another when it clearly does. Super liberal gun laws increase gun violence and super liberal policies on immigration and refugees also increases violent crime. Maybe it's worth it to your political beliefs, maybe it's not but at least man up to the cost. Poverty = more crime, that simple. Open your borders to poor and desolate masses and shit like this is going to happen.
i don't see how having policies and standards around who and how many people come into your country, especially when there is a valid issue of public safety and when those countries are relatively socialized is a binary racist prick or humanitarian saint type issue. we're only discussing at what level and not discussing all or none. calling anyone that has a different idea about the types of immigration policies that they would like to see in place than you a racist is so silly it's hard to take serious. it's like when conservatives call anyone who's in favor of any kind of goverment spending a socialist. the pejoratives aren't helping and there not making people feel bad about or change their beliefs.
Yeah poverty brings crime. I never said that we should just accept refugees and immigrants under this system. Well technically under international laws, that are being violated in Europe, you are obliged to accept refugees at their country of choice when they ask for asylum and can prove their refugee status. From an ethical point of view poor immigrants are escaping poverty caused by economic wars and colonialism, being from Greece I can assure you that I have friends that they would be homeless if they didnt immigrate to get a job at another country. So for me immigrants should be accepted because extreme poverty can kill you like a gas chamber but more silently and more effectively as there will always be an idiot that will say that they are lazy so they are poor or that we shouldnt accept him because he is a liability.
Wether you like it or not it boils down to this. Humanitarian vs Supermacist. Even if you dont realise it and you act like a concerned citizen it boils down to that. You either accept foreigners and fight for abolition of poverty or you just deprive them of the opportunity to come to your country and probably sentence them to death, just because they were born in piece of shit countries and they are not Americans or Europeans.
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For excitableboy
I argue this is a failure of our states at least as much as of the 'New Europeans', so to say. At the time, we indeed imported those potential problems and over the past decades have allowed them to foster. We shouldn't take that as a reason to turn away (again, real) refugees, in my opinion.
Surely when we have huge issues with huge issues with integration , crime , religion , housing , jobs and everything ells . The solution cant be to take in more people to make the situation worse . Sweden has already saved 100s of thousands , maybe a Million through the years
Cant save them all at the expense of turning Sweden into a third world country with the years to come
It's been said countless times now, we do help them there. To suggest helping all Syrians in Syria is just not realistic. Like I said above, this suggests there is an easy solution to the crisis.
Yeah I guess , but some people in this thread still bring it up , so I bring it up again .
No, not at all. I've discussed this on a philosophy forum and it was controversial even there
I think getting rid of religions would have been a amazing idea . I understand war for resources . I never understood religious wars . Sometimes the people fighting them shared 99% but that 1% of ideas made it ok to kill millions
While most of them preach love and peace , the result is always hate , people getting oppressed and war
For Alan
Monty, don't be offended. I've pointed out where your arguments were wrong and answered your questions where possible.
Yeah , no you havent . You have hours to respond to my posts . And it looks like when ever I prove you wrong you simply ignore it
thats why I bring it up again
I've also pointed out the fallacies you've made. And I'm not the only one who's noticed them. If I didn't answer, it was usually because your question/argument was repetitive, pointless, irrelevant or logically flawed. This I've explained already.
Says you , who are avoiding them . I explained my school situation . Which has nothing to do with the Refugee situation . Also several times you brought up that scenarios that I brought up had nothing to do with the refugee discussion yet , My school has something to do with it .
You brining up the USA as a country that has not suffered by Immigration / refugees . When while I really love the USA , cmon its pretty shitty country in all the ways I described .
Telling me I have no capacity to think critically and Im all emotions . When I bring up facts , statistics and logic . And your response is emotional . So emotional that you cant help but give small jabs and insults
Regarding war zones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
People coming to Europe are mostly refugees, no need for the quotation marks. But you knew that already, too.
Ok just quick from the list . Countries that have on going conflicts but tons of people go on vacation every year
Afghanistan , Egypt , India , Pakistan , Thailand , Indonesia ,Philippines , Bangladesh , Nigeria , Lebanon , China , Palestine , Israel
Tunisia , Algeria , Colombia , Turkey , Saudi Arabia , Ukraine ,
And Malaysia which I visited frequently when I lived in Singapore . I could book a ticket to all these countries and enjoy a vacation
Mouth
The EU owes slap a great debt of gratitude for solving this crisis. I for one, think it's marvellous what you guys have achieved.
You were one of the shittiest Goonies . even worse then Chunk
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Your taste in Goonies says a lot.
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Another example:
Ok just quick from the list . Countries that have on going conflicts but tons of people go on vacation every year
Afghanistan , Egypt , India , Pakistan , Thailand , Indonesia ,Philippines , Bangladesh , Nigeria , Lebanon , China , Palestine , Israel
Tunisia , Algeria , Colombia , Turkey , Saudi Arabia , Ukraine ,
Tons of people? Some of them, yeah. Most of them, not so much. So you would totally go to Afghanistan or Nigeria and enjoy a holiday in a country where thousands of people were killed by Muslim extremists last year, where so many are trying desperately to get out, yet you shit your pants because of a few deaths in your own country? That's quite irrational.
Another example:
Cant save them all at the expense of turning Sweden into a third world country with the years to come
This will never happen, and your fear of it happening is irrational.
Example no3:
You brining up the USA as a country that has not suffered by Immigration / refugees . When while I really love the USA , cmon its pretty shitty country in all the ways I described .
Yes, I brought up the US immigrants and refugees, you brought up slaves and segregation. Another flaw in your argument.
I don't have time to spend hours on answers, but I don't need hours. It does, however, seem that you need a full time tutor to understand simple concepts. Maybe one of the educated Syrian refugees would do it for free.
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To Sleazy,
I agree that, on some level, this discussion boils down to a utilitarian dilemma. Either we protect an uncertain number of rape victims, or we protect an uncertain amount of refugees. I think we should shoot to minimize both and I don't think that is naive or idealistic. I realize there must be victims, we cannot avoid it altogether (as I've said all along in this thread).
To even begin to consider choosing either would for me require a clear cut situation, and of course there never is one. I can see some people opt for one or the other to be on the safe side, though. No Swedes were directly culpable for putting those refugees in their predicament, but if they 'allow rape to happen', they would feel directly involved in facilitating this state of affairs. I suppose faraway people do weigh less heavily on one's conscience than close-to-home people, so when put so binary this problem is relatively easily solved.
What I'm getting at is that I'm no utilitarian and I think very few people are in most situations. Because most situations cannot be reduced to a binary opposition, where you choose one and then export the downside of the decision abroad. It is a choice to sketch this problem as such, and I'm not a fan of that choice is all.
this is a great example of the kind of balanced rational debate that could be helpful. while people like alan, who are just calling anyone who doesn't align with their ivory tower, rose tinted lenses position racist aren't helping anything. it should be for those who are impacted to decide what they want to take on, not for outsiders. if you decided to take some refugees in your home, good on ya... but that doesn't mean that your neighbor who didn't is a racist or morally inferior. they might just be dedicating their efforts to other causes or they might just not be charitable or an activists types which is also fine. this idea that people have a moral obligation to be charitable is hard to defend outside the constructs of religious dogma and definitely really hard to quantify. i'm probably super outdated on philosophy but are their any notable thinkers who have attempted to make that argument? i can't think of any. and it seems really crazy to have people who don't live in countries and won't be affected by the consequences to have such strong opinions about what those who are directly impacted should be doing. every person that comes in will need aid, will need assistance and brings in a crime risk to the local population. it seems obvious that we should let those people who have to carry the burden decide how much they want to shoulder and not judge them about what they choose.
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rose tinted lenses position
How is my position rose tinted?
if you decided to take some refugees in your home, good on ya...
You know that taking refugees in your home is not how aid works, right?
it seems really crazy to have people who don't live in countries and won't be affected by the consequences to have such strong opinions about what those who are directly impacted should be doing. every person that comes in will need aid, will need assistance and brings in a crime risk to the local population. it seems obvious that we should let those people who have to carry the burden decide how much they want to shoulder and not judge them about what they choose.
Most of the posters in this thread are European. I'm European, from one of the countries, much poorer than Sweden, on one of the refugee routes. So it seems crazy to me that you're passing judgement on us.
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Mouth
Your taste in Goonies says a lot.
Thanks Data was the best
For Alan
Tons of people? Some of them, yeah. Most of them, not so much. So you would totally go to Afghanistan or Nigeria and enjoy a holiday in a country where thousands of people were killed by Muslim extremists last year, where so many are trying desperately to get out, yet you shit your pants because of a few deaths in your own country? That's quite irrational.
a ton is 1000kg . Thats about 13 people . So yeah a ton of people go back every year . I said before I have a afghan friend here in Sweden who in the 10 years I known him has gone back to kabul multiple times to visit family . Like I said Multiple of those nations are still popular vacation destinations
India , Thailand , Indonesia ,Philippines , Bangladesh , Lebanon , China , Palestine , Israel
Tunisia , Colombia , Turkey , Saudi Arabia , Ukraine ,
Are all countries I would visit for a vacation . I was in Turkey about 8 months ago , And Ive been to Israel afew times . Lebanon I would love to visit
This will never happen, and your fear of it happening is irrational.
Says who ? you ? Just look at the ghettos we didnt have 20 years ago . rape statistics up 1000% . Crime is up huge numbers . Its not going to happen now but the worse and worse it gets it gets closer to that
There will be political change in the EU and Sweden so it prob wont happen . But if nothing changes its gonna be a shit storm
Yes, I brought up the US immigrants and refugees, you brought up slaves and segregation. Another flaw in your argument.
You used it as a successful example of Immigration , refugees and integration . And its not , its just not
You know that taking refugees in your home is not how aid works, right?
You have said that in the past . You even made fun of when I used that as a example before in this thread . But before Sweden shut the borders the government actually sent out press releases that Swedish citizens should take in refugees to make the burden lighter
Ive brought that up before . 2 times before . As I bring up many other examples of you dodging questions and not answering
Ive asked 3 times in a row how does me not wanting to take spanish B and Math have any relevance in this discussion
but hypothetical situations and facts , news articles about refugees does not ?
Sleazy is right . Every time somebody shows you that you are wrong you ignore it and hurl insult s . You are full of shit
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Are all countries I would visit for a vacation .
And even with the economic situation and war (thousands of people killed) in some of those countries, you are shitting your pants because of the refugee crisis in Europe. That's irrational.
You have said that in the past . You even made fun of when I used that as a example before in this thread . But before Sweden shut the borders the government actually sent out press releases that Swedish citizens should take in refugees to make the burden lighter
Ive brought that up before . 2 times before . As I bring up many other examples of you dodging questions and not answering
So, was that an order by the government? Are they forcing people to take in refugees? Are they kicking Swedes out of their homes and putting Syrians in their place? You do understand the difference, right? Right? And I've already said why I don't answer all your questions. I'm not here to teach you how to think and argue. That's something that you need to work on irl with a specialist.
it prob wont happen
Yeah, "probably"...
You used it as a successful example of Immigration , refugees and integration . And its not , its just not
Yeah, that's why so many Americans have ancestors with various ethnic backgrounds. Because they refuse to mix with other groups.
And they're also very bad for the economy. Like this latest example: http://fusion.net/story/238682/the-miracle-of-little-bosnia/ (http://fusion.net/story/238682/the-miracle-of-little-bosnia/)
a ton is 1000kg . Thats about 13 people .
Are you trying to prove that you can actually do math?
. So yeah a ton of people go back every year
Fuck, that was very clever.
Ive asked 3 times in a row how does me not wanting to take spanish B and Math have any relevance in this discussion
but hypothetical situations and facts , news articles about refugees does not ?
I didn't say it's relevant to the discussion. I said it's probably the reason why you can't form an argument, and why your examples are bad and don't make sense. Also probably the reason why you're struggling with reading comprehension. Then there is the selective choice of sources regarding the refugees, mostly negative. We get it, you don't like refugees, but don't act surprised when people call you out for that.
Sleazy is right . Every time somebody shows you that you are wrong you ignore it and hurl insult s . You are full of shit
You didn't prove me wrong. You only proved that you don't like refugees, and I helped you by providing additional evidence.
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion .
This should be on every page of this thread.
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To Sleazy,
I agree that, on some level, this discussion boils down to a utilitarian dilemma. Either we protect an uncertain number of rape victims, or we protect an uncertain amount of refugees. I think we should shoot to minimize both and I don't think that is naive or idealistic. I realize there must be victims, we cannot avoid it altogether (as I've said all along in this thread).
To even begin to consider choosing either would for me require a clear cut situation, and of course there never is one. I can see some people opt for one or the other to be on the safe side, though. No Swedes were directly culpable for putting those refugees in their predicament, but if they 'allow rape to happen', they would feel directly involved in facilitating this state of affairs. I suppose faraway people do weigh less heavily on one's conscience than close-to-home people, so when put so binary this problem is relatively easily solved.
What I'm getting at is that I'm no utilitarian and I think very few people are in most situations. Because most situations cannot be reduced to a binary opposition, where you choose one and then export the downside of the decision abroad. It is a choice to sketch this problem as such, and I'm not a fan of that choice is all.
this is a great example of the kind of balanced rational debate that could be helpful. while people like alan, who are just calling anyone who doesn't align with their ivory tower, rose tinted lenses position racist aren't helping anything. it should be for those who are impacted to decide what they want to take on, not for outsiders. if you decided to take some refugees in your home, good on ya... but that doesn't mean that your neighbor who didn't is a racist or morally inferior. they might just be dedicating their efforts to other causes or they might just not be charitable or an activists types which is also fine. this idea that people have a moral obligation to be charitable is hard to defend outside the constructs of religious dogma and definitely really hard to quantify. i'm probably super outdated on philosophy but are their any notable thinkers who have attempted to make that argument? i can't think of any. and it seems really crazy to have people who don't live in countries and won't be affected by the consequences to have such strong opinions about what those who are directly impacted should be doing. every person that comes in will need aid, will need assistance and brings in a crime risk to the local population. it seems obvious that we should let those people who have to carry the burden decide how much they want to shoulder and not judge them about what they choose.
Well it sort of depends what you take to mean charitable, but Kant was pretty adamant about moral duties. His categorical imperative is more or less what Christians seem to mean with 'don't do unto others...', or the Golden Rule. It is very defendable outside the scope of religion too, as a matter of fact, maybe more so. For believers, their motivation is ultimately a spot on the guestlist. Kant justified it all in this life.
Like Alan, I also live in the EU. We have our own little Trump, a populist who will make our country great again. Even has a funny hairdo. It's one thing when an internet pal is afraid his super rich country is on the verge of becoming a third world country, it's another thing when a politician sells such fear, and is raking it in too. Such hysteria is by now expected from Monty but there is a majority in my country that has started to buy into this nonsense as well. This binary way of presenting the problem is actually gaining traction. If you are sincere in such beliefs, it's not racist or morally inferior to think in this way, you are right about that. But it still is factually wrong, and so misguided that it is hard to imagine people actually believe it.
Monty, not sure if you actually mean everything you say. Maybe some of it is rhetoric. But if you don't think saying 'Sweden is turning into a third world country' is in extremely poor taste, I bow out.
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I'm extremely embarassed by the way most Americans, despite being too uninformed to understand the impact this migration will have on the future of Europe (our key ally!!!), are more than happy to tell people in Europe who have different opinion, that they are wrong. If what is happening in Europe right now was happening in America, I guarantee more of you would be against such a destructive mass migration.
They should be kept out of Europe & if they ever start coming to this country I'll be right there fighting against them and anyone helping them.
Most Americans are too pacified to be able to fight for anything, so they lay down and pretend integration ever works, despite the fact that we've been unable to integrate even the few minority groups we do have in this country into our society fully (see BLM and NC La Raza and others). Good for you Monty!
Anyone that thinks most Muslims are moderate peaceful people that will respect western values should watch this
Ben Shapiro: The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim Minority (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg&sns=em#)
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And even with the economic situation and war (thousands of people killed) in some of those countries, you are shitting your pants because of the refugee crisis in Europe. That's irrational.
When a small fire breaks out in the kitchen you take steps to put that fire out . If you dont the fire will spread and burn the restaurant down
There is a pretty big fire in Sweden right now . Otherwise the most liberal country when it comes to refugees wouldn't have shut its border
Its not irrational . Most of Sweden agrees . Most of the EU agrees .
So, was that an order by the government? Are they forcing people to take in refugees? Are they kicking Swedes out of their homes and putting Syrians in their place? You do understand the difference, right? Right? And I've already said why I don't answer all your questions. I'm not here to teach you how to think and argue. That's something that you need to work on irl with a specialist.
It was a suggestion of the government . And thats bad enough
What about the homeless in Sweden who dont get a spot in shelters cause they are already full of refugees ? what about the youth programs and homeless programs the Swedish government has come out and suggested cutting back on founds for ?
Example:
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You would let them into your apartment or house right away . How many of these refuges are you willing to move into your house ?
So you do think its the governments responsibility . Does that mean you think the Swedish government has failed ?
yeah, that's why so many Americans have ancestors with various ethnic backgrounds. Because they refuse to mix with other groups.
And they're also very bad for the economy. Like this latest example: http://fusion.net/story/238682/the-miracle-of-little-bosnia/ (http://fusion.net/story/238682/the-miracle-of-little-bosnia/)
Yes the USA refugee integration works so well that the Bosnians that came into the USA created a small area called little Bosnia ...
Kinda like those huge areas in USA where there are mostly mulsim immigrants and refugees , where people want sharia Law .
More great examples of a country where things are working out just great
I didn't say it's relevant to the discussion. I said it's probably the reason why you can't form an argument, and why your examples are bad and don't make sense. Also probably the reason why you're struggling with reading comprehension. Then there is the selective choice of sources regarding the refugees, mostly negative. We get it, you don't like refugees, but don't act surprised when people call you out for that.
You give me shit for things YOU dont think is relevant to the discussion and claim its part of the reason you dont want to answer questions I ask . Yet you contradict yourself by adding things your self dont think is relevant ? fucking hell thats low
So this discussion is in english , and about refugees entering the EU , and abit about politics of the EU .
Spanish B and Math D .
I dont like Montys stance on the refugee crisis in the EU . It must be his lack of spanish B and math D classes !
it's probably the reason why you can't form an argument, and why your examples are bad and don't make sense. Also probably the reason why you're struggling with reading comprehension
You think The reason I cant form an argument , the reason my examples are bad and dont make sense . And the reason Im struggling with reading comprehension
Is my lack of Spanish B and Math D classes .
Holy shit man , All your arguments and ideas are invalid . can you even tie your shoes without help ? . Are you using google translate or something ? maybe thats why your examples are shit and arguments about my education makes no sense
Maybe you cant understand my examples and arguments because you didnt take Dance classes and woodshop
You are much worse then Tufty , and he thinks Im a nazi and has threatened to rape me
For excitableboy
Monty, not sure if you actually mean everything you say. Maybe some of it is rhetoric. But if you don't think saying 'Sweden is turning into a third world country' is in extremely poor taste, I bow out.
Im just answering Alan back in as a crazy way as Alan is answering me back . I do believe the status of Sweden is getting worse and worse though . Instead of taking huge leaps forward we are definitely taking steps back
Like I said integration is a huge problem in Sweden . We need to stop the influx of people into Sweden until we can manage the people we have in here right now . Give them jobs , good places to live . Make sure they feel part of Sweden
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Damn Monty. You swedes were Vikings at one time. Now look at you. This is what happens when feminist start running our society. And all the white guilt that's been programmed into the modern white man. I now understand the need for guns and I'm very happy we can buy them and shoot Muslims in their rapist faces if they try to invade. The average gun owner owns 8 guns in America.
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Absolute Proof Liberalism is a Mental Disorder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZL3axcwDz8&sns=em#)
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Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion .
Even you think that being a high school dropout is relevant to this argument, apart from being dense, which you also admit. Sapienti sat.
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http://www.dw.com/en/nato-to-consider-request-to-help-turkey-with-refugee-flow-to-greece/a-19036476 (http://www.dw.com/en/nato-to-consider-request-to-help-turkey-with-refugee-flow-to-greece/a-19036476)
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I'm extremely embarassed by the way most Americans, despite being too uninformed to understand the impact this migration will have on the future of Europe (our key ally!!!), are more than happy to tell people in Europe who have different opinion, that they are wrong. If what is happening in Europe right now was happening in America, I guarantee more of you would be against such a destructive mass migration.
They should be kept out of Europe & if they ever start coming to this country I'll be right there fighting against them and anyone helping them.
Most Americans are too pacified to be able to fight for anything, so they lay down and pretend integration ever works, despite the fact that we've been unable to integrate even the few minority groups we do have in this country into our society fully (see BLM and NC La Raza and others). Good for you Monty!
Anyone that thinks most Muslims are moderate peaceful people that will respect western values should watch this
Ben Shapiro: The Myth of the Tiny Radical Muslim Minority (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg&sns=em#)
He said that in the UK that x amount of muslims were 'radical' because they thought that charlie hebdo should be taken to court. That's not radical, that's just using UK law.
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I was in UK for a job interview when this happened to my town. I arrived yesterday and I am now figuring out what actually happened and how I can help.
http://www.pappaspost.com/kavalas-response-to-the-arrival-of-1200-refugees-in-15-photos/ (http://www.pappaspost.com/kavalas-response-to-the-arrival-of-1200-refugees-in-15-photos/)
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Why did you bump this shit thread again ?
Theres been tons of murders , rapes , sexual assaults , riots , violent assaults , frauds from the " refugees " And I didnt bump this thread
just let this thread die , like The EU will die ...
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I dont give a fuck Monty, go kill yourself plz.
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I dont give a fuck Monty, go kill yourself plz.
nice nice , insults , threats of violence , rape threats and now you want me to commit suicide .
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i say bump this thread. In the UK there's a referendum going on to leave the EU. Its fear vs fear so a lot to play for
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this thread, along with the one about the presidential elections is fucking depressing. its really sad to see skaters having flaming redneck opinions on extremely sensitive stuff. shame
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Well I am suprised that there are no rape incidents or significant misbehaving by the refugees/immigrants in Greece despite the desperate situation after the closed borders. I may as well call bullshit on European right-wing media that want to produce a hostile enviroment for the unwanted foreigners. Well I get that there are no jobs for unskilled people in Europe and economy is bad everywhere because of their choices but being a cannibal and provoking people to do so for you, its not a civilised choice. Especially when your system fails because of your bullshit choices, like shipping jobs abroad in order to profit more and so much more.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/12/refugee-camp-baby-photo-prompts-greece-transfer-promise (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/12/refugee-camp-baby-photo-prompts-greece-transfer-promise)
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The police and government in Greece must be covering the rapes and murders up like Sweden was doing
Sweden had 3 murders by "refugees" in 6 weeks this year . multiple gang rapes , fights and riots . Theres a hunger strike going on at one refugee centre cause these poor " refugees " dont like the Swedish food they are getting
There was just a conviction of 3 boys who gang raped another boy in a field . Swedish Police in one city told the media and the city that Women should not go out alone at night and recommended they stay at home . There was over 6 random sexual attacks and assaults by men who didnt speak Swedish and men who spoke broken Swedish
Swedish police are quitting like never before , We need 3000 new cops to deal with the situation in sweden but more and more are quitting each day . They have told media they can not deal with other crime as refugee crime takes up all the time
Germany has had multiple rape / sexual assaults by the " refugees " . There was even a leaked police report from the police that said Rape , Sexual assault , Assaults , robbery and other crime was on the rise by the refugees .
Austria has had numerous children raped and kidnapped in their swimming facilities . I think in one week I saw 6 articles of different cases
There was also the case where one Austrian got gang raped in her school by multiple "refugees" with the school teachers not doing a thing and covering it up .
Belgium had one or more of their refugee aid helpers raped , and one murder if Im not mistaken ?
In the calais jungle in France , multiple celebrities went down to stage a protest and set up something to help the " refugees " they had to have security and eventually got hold up and robbed by they " refugees " multiple camera teams and news organisation have been pelted with rocks , assaulted and robbed there . There was a news story just afew days ago about these refugees going around and stabbing other refugees . caught on camera
You have several articles with interviews of " Refugees " going back to their countries cause they didnt like it in Finland , Sweden and Germany . These poor poor people didnt like the cold , the food , the lack of jobs , or their living facilities so they are going home again
But they are fleeing for their lives right ?
As for integration . Swedish news paper " Sydsvenskan" did a investigation about how many of these refugees will get jobs in the future .
70 % of refugees that have come into sweden have not gotten a job after over 10 years in Sweden . 10 fucking years and some of them dont even speak Swedish yet . And the rest of the 30 % who have jobs are sometimes state set up jobs where the government pays over half of the money and the company who hires them get tax cuts
Sydsvenskan also did a story today about the increase of hate crimes against swedish people . People attacked and targeted by people of foreign decent , Just cause they are Swedish
Sweden and Germany who have been the most accepting countries are changing its laws to make it easier to not turn away refugees . Sweden is also taking Germany to UN courts cause Germany is not accepting deported from Sweden
The UK might puil out of the EU largly thanks to this horrible situation , Schengen is pretty much dead . Multiple countries in the EU are fighting eachother about who should take in what number of refugees . Turkey is blackmailing the EU about the refugees
Greece is asking for more money for a third time cause they fucked themselves over again
But yeah the refugee situation is under control , everything is fine right ? its not a invasion right ?
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Monty, all I can say is: your (gevernments) damn fault. As a refugee myself and having a father working as interpretor (at Migrationsverket, Ekobrottsmyndigheten, Polisen, Hov-/Tingsrätten, etc.) we have since 1999 been in contact with all these authorities. What we have learned is this:
1) You never deny additional economic assistance, no matter how ridiculus "the cause" is.
2) Every single fucker demands to live in Stockholm. Göteborg/Malmö tops.
3) Little to no incentives to get a job.
4) Automatic citizenship after 5 years. No tests at all.
5) You let peope get away with not working for decades.
6) "Family reunions" are granted without any requirements.
So what do you think is gonna happen if you allow this chaos for decades?
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Monty, all I can say is: your (gevernments) damn fault. As a refugee myself and having a father working as interpretor (at Migrationsverket, Ekobrottsmyndigheten, Polisen, Hov-/Tingsr�tten, etc.) we have since 1999 been in contact with all these authorities. What we have learned is this:
1) You never deny additional economic assistance, no matter how ridiculus "the cause" is.
2) Every single fucker demands to live in Stockholm. G�teborg/Malm� tops.
3) Little to no incentives to get a job.
4) Automatic citizenship after 5 years. No tests at all.
5) You let peope get away with not working for decades.
6) "Family reunions" are granted without any requirements.
So what do you think is gonna happen if you allow this chaos for decades?
I dont have to think about it , Im living in the fall of the country right now
Edit . I just checked the news . Big riot in a refugee center in sweden . More then 2 people to the hospital . Staff had to barricade themselves to keep themselves safe . Police and Ambulances there
I can post these "breaking news " about refugees killing , murdering , raping , sexually assaulting , robbing , rioting , all day .
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To be more thorough no rape incident whatshoever, kinda hard to cover up something like that in Greece especially when half police votes for fascist golden dawn. I am amazed though that despite the large number of fascist cops in greek police the refugees seem to say that the police of FYROM and Bulgaria are way worse and that greek police is helpful. There have been ocassional riots because people sometimes fight each other to get food first and because of the lack of organization for the situation of closed borders here. Greeks despite the hardships make me proud as they proceed to give food,clothes and any kind of help to refugees and immigrants. Most of greeks are mad with the EU and not the poor people that fled war or destroyed economically countries. They mostly see their ancestors who fled wars in the refugees' eyes or their kids that went to north europe to get jobs.
Also Europe cooperating with Turkish government that reportedly shuts down newspapers, arrests and kills citizens because they oppose erdogan's regime, kills Kurds and cooperates with ISIS is infuriating. Let's not forget that many immigrants and refugees lived in Turkey for some years to get exploited by garment and textile factories by working illegally. Its a shame that Europe deports illegal/suspected immigrants in Turkey.
Monty keeps being a person fascist talking about invasion....
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Gnarly, europe is a mess
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Gnarly, europe is a mess
It's always been a mess, it's just a brand new mess now. Remember when the EU let Romania in?? LOL
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It's always been a mess, it's just a brand new mess now. Remember when the EU let Romania in?? LOL
Yeah, Canada is a mess too. Its just less of a mess lol.
We got refugees coming in now too
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By now I think we are forced to draw the conclusion that there is something about Sweden that attracts all of the most rotten 'refugees'. It's a puzzling phenomenon. The women there are famously attractive, so in a way they are provoking it. Though this doesn't account for the boy in the field, this is my best guess. Care to shine a light on this Monty? What makes Sweden so uniquely rapable?
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Monty, all I can say is: your (gevernments) damn fault. As a refugee myself and having a father working as interpretor (at Migrationsverket, Ekobrottsmyndigheten, Polisen, Hov-/Tingsr�tten, etc.) we have since 1999 been in contact with all these authorities. What we have learned is this:
1) You never deny additional economic assistance, no matter how ridiculus "the cause" is.
2) Every single fucker demands to live in Stockholm. G�teborg/Malm� tops.
3) Little to no incentives to get a job.
4) Automatic citizenship after 5 years. No tests at all.
5) You let peope get away with not working for decades.
6) "Family reunions" are granted without any requirements.
So what do you think is gonna happen if you allow this chaos for decades?
I dont have to think about it , Im living in the fall of the country right now
Edit . I just checked the news . Big riot in a refugee center in sweden . More then 2 people to the hospital . Staff had to barricade themselves to keep themselves safe . Police and Ambulances there
I can post these "breaking news " about refugees killing , murdering , raping , sexually assaulting , robbing , rioting , all day .
A bit dramatic, aren't we? Dont vote for bitch-ass Gustav Frigolit.
By now I think we are forced to draw the conclusion that there is something about Sweden that attracts all of the most rotten 'refugees'. It's a puzzling phenomenon. The women there are famously attractive, so in a way they are provoking it. Though this doesn't account for the boy in the field, this is my best guess. Care to shine a light on this Monty? What makes Sweden so uniquely rapable?
Dont want to sound like a redneck, but little, to no, punishement maybe* ? I got worse consequences for dealing a small amount of drugs than what you get for sexual assault**.
* I'm aware that hard sentences do not correlate well with crime prevention, but Sweden is notorious for their love of rapists.
** I know, Im a scum. I behave better these days.
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Yeah, it's quite interesting how so many stories about criminal refugees in Germany and Austria are set in some small town or village, and then when they are investigated it turns out that they were made up. It's sad that this sort of fascist fear mongering still works today, when facts can be easily checked on the internet.
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Dont want to sound like a redneck, but little, to no, punishement maybe* ? I got worse consequences for dealing a small amount of drugs than what you get for sexual assault**.
* I'm aware that hard sentences do not correlate well with crime prevention, but Sweden is notorious for their love of rapists.
** I know, Im a scum. I behave better these days.
Well, if you're aware of that, you just answered your own question. These muslims are foaming at the mouth, they don't care about sentencing. Ikea-jail beats the camps anyway. Maybe they should be given a herd of goats? I hear these people settle for cattle.
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On the bright side, Sweden hasn't gotten this much press since they invented dynamite.
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Yeah, it's quite interesting how so many stories about criminal refugees in Germany and Austria are set in some small town or village, and then when they are investigated it turns out that they were made up. It's sad that this sort of fascist fear mongering still works today, when facts can be easily checked on the internet.
I dont know man?
Even the police cheif in Ostersund spoke out about it. And women being advised to stay off the streets at night because its become too dangerous.
What would the reasoning be for this type of fear mongering?
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On the bright side, Sweden hasn't gotten this much press since they invented dynamite.
Your mama gets more refugee penis than all of Sweden does.
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On the bright side, Sweden hasn't gotten this much press since they invented dynamite.
Your mama gets more refugee penis than all of Sweden does.
Your mother is either lucky, or hiding something.. AFter all it's you not me living in the rape capital of Europe
Once proud vikings now taking it to the internet ::) Pretty sad state over there
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Monty, all I can say is: your (gevernments) damn fault. As a refugee myself and having a father working as interpretor (at Migrationsverket, Ekobrottsmyndigheten, Polisen, Hov-/Tingsr�tten, etc.) we have since 1999 been in contact with all these authorities. What we have learned is this:
1) You never deny additional economic assistance, no matter how ridiculus "the cause" is.
2) Every single fucker demands to live in Stockholm. G�teborg/Malm� tops.
3) Little to no incentives to get a job.
4) Automatic citizenship after 5 years. No tests at all.
5) You let peope get away with not working for decades.
6) "Family reunions" are granted without any requirements.
So what do you think is gonna happen if you allow this chaos for decades?
I actually agree with you. I'm all about helping those people out but they have to be productive and helpful for the country they are coming in and not some burden to our economy. They need some help to start a life of course but thats it. At least in my country (Portugal) we have enough parasites living with workers tax money, we dont need more of this. If you dont do shit to deserve our help maybe it's better to go back to your country in ruins. Also we dont need to adjust our life to their traditions (like you see some of them demanding), thats the stupidest thing you can do.
I dont understand why they let the refugees choose the country they wanna stay. Its shelter they want or life with no effort??
Lots of refugees refuse to come to our country or other smaller countries, they just want to go to the rich ones (germany, sweden...). Other than that they can come and try to find a better life, no one deserves to go through a life of suffering and fear. I have no problems about refugees coming to my country, or my town, they just have to behave like us, civilized and peacefully (which i'm sure they would). Refugees welcome!!
...and Monty, i fucking hate you.
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Monty, all I can say is: your (gevernments) damn fault. As a refugee myself and having a father working as interpretor (at Migrationsverket, Ekobrottsmyndigheten, Polisen, Hov-/Tingsr�tten, etc.) we have since 1999 been in contact with all these authorities. What we have learned is this:
1) You never deny additional economic assistance, no matter how ridiculus "the cause" is.
2) Every single fucker demands to live in Stockholm. G�teborg/Malm� tops.
3) Little to no incentives to get a job.
4) Automatic citizenship after 5 years. No tests at all.
5) You let peope get away with not working for decades.
6) "Family reunions" are granted without any requirements.
So what do you think is gonna happen if you allow this chaos for decades?
I actually agree with you. I'm all about helping those people out but they have to be productive and helpful for the country they are coming in and not some burden to our economy. They need some help to start a life of course but thats it. At least in my country (Portugal) we have enough parasites living with workers tax money, we dont need more of this. If you dont do shit to deserve our help maybe it's better to go back to your country in ruins. Also we dont need to adjust our life to their traditions (like you see some of them demanding), thats the stupidest thing you can do.
I dont understand why they let the refugees choose the country they wanna stay. Its shelter they want or life with no effort??
Lots of refugees refuse to come to our country or other smaller countries, they just want to go to the rich ones (germany, sweden...). Other than that they can come and try to find a better life, no one deserves to go through a life of suffering and fear. I have no problems about refugees coming to my country, or my town, they just have to behave like us, civilized and peacefully (which i'm sure they would). Refugees welcome!!
...and Monty, i fucking hate you.
Basically how I feel about it too.
Monte is awesome though, I differ from you there. Also Tufty is amazing!
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Yeah, it's quite interesting how so many stories about criminal refugees in Germany and Austria are set in some small town or village, and then when they are investigated it turns out that they were made up. It's sad that this sort of fascist fear mongering still works today, when facts can be easily checked on the internet.
I dont know man?
Even the police cheif in Ostersund spoke out about it. And women being advised to stay off the streets at night because its become too dangerous.
What would the reasoning be for this type of fear mongering?
Alan is actually correct. That's exactly what's been happening in Germany for the past few months. Someone posts about refugees raping / molesting / beating / eating someone and then very likely others look into it and find out it didn't happen or the police denies the incident. I'm not saying this thing doesn't exist; it does (as Cologne proved), but I think it's far less of a problem than many believe. There's actually no serious statistic for an increase in rape in particular or crime in general in Germany.
All paranoia aside, all the German towns and cities I know (and I've lived in Germany for most of my life) are still really, really safe. And I mean safe as in I-don't-know-anyone-who-got-mugged-like-ever kinda safe.
Is this really any different in Sweden?
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Yeah, it's quite interesting how so many stories about criminal refugees in Germany and Austria are set in some small town or village, and then when they are investigated it turns out that they were made up. It's sad that this sort of fascist fear mongering still works today, when facts can be easily checked on the internet.
I dont know man?
Even the police cheif in Ostersund spoke out about it. And women being advised to stay off the streets at night because its become too dangerous.
What would the reasoning be for this type of fear mongering?
Alan is actually correct. That's exactly what's been happening in Germany for the past few months. Someone posts about refugees raping / molesting / beating / eating someone and then very likely others look into it and find out it didn't happen or the police denies the incident. I'm not saying this thing doesn't exist; it does (as Cologne proved), but I think it's far less of a problem than many believe. There's actually no serious statistic for an increase in rape in particular or crime in general in Germany.
All paranoia aside, all the German towns and cities I know (and I've lived in Germany for most of my life) are still really, really safe. And I mean safe as in I-don't-know-anyone-who-got-mugged-like-ever kinda safe.
Is this really any different in Sweden?
Swedish police covering up refugee crimes , filing them under a new secret code to prevent media finding out about it ?
No go zones in swedish ghettos where ambulances and fire department need armed police escort . And police wont go into and patrol unless they have a extra back up with them ?
Ghettos with 90% unemployment and less then 1 % Swedish born people
Ghettos with Sharia law enforcing patrols , Harassing muslims and none muslims to wear hajib and follow sharia law
Or what about that Australian 60 mins crew who were doing a report on integration / refugees in Sweden who went to a ghetto and got assaulted , pelted with rocks and needed a police escort
Sk.A.T.A.N
You only hate me cause I speak the truth . You say you only like refugees that behave good and respect the nation they arrive to, like they are some kind of fairy tale people who cant do no wrong
But everyday you see the truth of what I speak
Watch the German election going on now . You can see the far right coming into power again . This is Merkels own fult for bringing in all these refugees . All over Europe the Right is rising again .
You guys are all against the far Right , but support policies which only gives them more traction and power
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Yeah, it's quite interesting how so many stories about criminal refugees in Germany and Austria are set in some small town or village, and then when they are investigated it turns out that they were made up. It's sad that this sort of fascist fear mongering still works today, when facts can be easily checked on the internet.
I dont know man?
Even the police cheif in Ostersund spoke out about it. And women being advised to stay off the streets at night because its become too dangerous.
What would the reasoning be for this type of fear mongering?
Alan is actually correct. That's exactly what's been happening in Germany for the past few months. Someone posts about refugees raping / molesting / beating / eating someone and then very likely others look into it and find out it didn't happen or the police denies the incident. I'm not saying this thing doesn't exist; it does (as Cologne proved), but I think it's far less of a problem than many believe. There's actually no serious statistic for an increase in rape in particular or crime in general in Germany.
All paranoia aside, all the German towns and cities I know (and I've lived in Germany for most of my life) are still really, really safe. And I mean safe as in I-don't-know-anyone-who-got-mugged-like-ever kinda safe.
Is this really any different in Sweden?
Swedish police covering up refugee crimes , filing them under a new secret code to prevent media finding out about it ?
No go zones in swedish ghettos where ambulances and fire department need armed police escort . And police wont go into and patrol unless they have a extra back up with them ?
Ghettos with 90% unemployment and less then 1 % Swedish born people
Ghettos with Sharia law enforcing patrols , Harassing muslims and none muslims to wear hajib and follow sharia law
Or what about that Australian 60 mins crew who were doing a report on integration / refugees in Sweden who went to a ghetto and got assaulted , pelted with rocks and needed a police escort
Sk.A.T.A.N
You only hate me cause I speak the truth . You say you only like refugees that behave good and respect the nation they arrive to, like they are some kind of fairy tale people who cant do no wrong
But everyday you see the truth of what I speak
Watch the German election going on now . You can see the far right coming into power again . This is Merkels own fult for bringing in all these refugees . All over Europe the Right is rising again .
You guys are all against the far Right , but support policies which only gives them more traction and power
No. I hate you because are a privileged fuck that paints refugees like they all are rapist and criminals and that's not the truth. You hate them with such a passion that you cant see the other side anymore. I'm not against you when you say that those that dont behave well should be punished, i really think they should, but i dont think you should blame all the refugees for some minority action, thats stupid and racist. Actually almost all the videos or news that i heard against refugees behaviors have been proved false. Those people are almost all just regular, honest people that are looking for a shelter to live a peaceful life, and look how the fuck we are dealing with them. Like they were cattle. I'm really repulsed by the way europe is dealing with this and I really wish you or your family doesnt have to deal with some similar situation as them because you would regret that racist way of throught you have going.
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Holy fuck, racism gets thrown around like a motherfucker these days. Waaaay too fuckin much.
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Holy fuck, racism gets thrown around like a motherfucker these days. Waaaay too fuckin much.
Maybe thats because Trump is getting so famous...
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Holy fuck, racism gets thrown around like a motherfucker these days. Waaaay too fuckin much.
Maybe thats because Trump is getting so famous...
Or george soros and all this black lives matter bullshit. Same shit in the ukraine and everywhere else.
If your white you're a fuckin racist.
Everything is racism now. Martin luther king is turning in his grave.
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No. I hate you because are a privileged fuck that paints refugees like they all are rapist and criminals and that's not the truth. You hate them with such a passion that you cant see the other side anymore. I'm not against you when you say that those that dont behave well should be punished, i really think they should, but i dont think you should blame all the refugees for some minority action, thats stupid and racist. Actually almost all the videos or news that i heard against refugees behaviors have been proved false. Those people are almost all just regular, honest people that are looking for a shelter to live a peaceful life, and look how the fuck we are dealing with them. Like they were cattle. I'm really repulsed by the way europe is dealing with this and I really wish you or your family doesnt have to deal with some similar situation as them because you would regret that racist way of throught you have going.
Privileged ? being born in Sweden is being privileged ? thats all it takes ?
How am I racist ? What race is " Refugee " ? . You argument is that Im racist cause I dont want 300 thousand + refugees to Sweden/ Europe cause its a strain on the economy , the housing crisis , the unemployment rates , crime , intergration
The majority of these "refugees" Are young men who are unskilled workers with no education who dont speak the language
And your reply , He is racist
But yeah what race is Refugee ?
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Holy fuck, racism gets thrown around like a motherfucker these days. Waaaay too fuckin much.
Maybe thats because Trump is getting so famous...
Or george soros and all this black lives matter bullshit. Same shit in the ukraine and everywhere else.
If your white you're a fuckin racist.
Everything is racism now. Martin luther king is turning in his grave.
People (ignorant) just use the word racist as a way to feel superior. 90% there is no reasoning, due to lack of knowledge. Monty is not a racist, he has vilified his points 100 times already with actual facts. Living in the "rape capital of Europe" is pretty fucking strong, certainly worth fighting. Allowing a million people in 5 years from countries with shitty views of human rights, not even USA could handle that. There's only 10 million people in Sweden! Sweeping it under the rug is certainly no solution, other Nordic countries are modeling their countries with the hopes they're not the next Sweden. Unfortunately it may be too late for Sweden, but never say never.
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No. I hate you because are a privileged fuck that paints refugees like they all are rapist and criminals and that's not the truth. You hate them with such a passion that you cant see the other side anymore. I'm not against you when you say that those that dont behave well should be punished, i really think they should, but i dont think you should blame all the refugees for some minority action, thats stupid and racist. Actually almost all the videos or news that i heard against refugees behaviors have been proved false. Those people are almost all just regular, honest people that are looking for a shelter to live a peaceful life, and look how the fuck we are dealing with them. Like they were cattle. I'm really repulsed by the way europe is dealing with this and I really wish you or your family doesnt have to deal with some similar situation as them because you would regret that racist way of throught you have going.
Privileged ? being born in Sweden is being privileged ? thats all it takes ?
How am I racist ? �What race is " Refugee " � ? . You argument is that Im racist cause I dont want 300 thousand + refugees to Sweden/ Europe cause its a strain on the economy , the housing crisis , the unemployment rates , crime , intergration
The majority of these "refugees" Are young men who are unskilled workers with no education who dont speak the language
And your reply , He is racist �
But yeah what race is Refugee ?
Yeah, you're priviledged like i am. We both were born in a peaceful country and luckely didnt had to deal with any of those terrors the refugees have gone through. You dont wish that to your worst enemy, it's life of pain an misery. Why dont you show some compassion for them??
And also, racism, xenophobia, you understood what i meant. If they were german refugees you wouldnt be so scared. And not all of them are unskilled and ignorant (or criminals). Your country/europe are not doing the best to integrate them too. Pilling them into some ghetto it's not the best plan at all.
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Holy fuck, racism gets thrown around like a motherfucker these days. Waaaay too fuckin much.
Maybe thats because Trump is getting so famous...
Or george soros and all this black lives matter bullshit. Same shit in the ukraine and everywhere else.
If your white you're a fuckin racist.
Everything is racism now. Martin luther king is turning in his grave.
Holy shit you made sense!!!
Good on ya!
Lol
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No. I hate you because are a privileged fuck that paints refugees like they all are rapist and criminals and that's not the truth. You hate them with such a passion that you cant see the other side anymore. I'm not against you when you say that those that dont behave well should be punished, i really think they should, but i dont think you should blame all the refugees for some minority action, thats stupid and racist. Actually almost all the videos or news that i heard against refugees behaviors have been proved false. Those people are almost all just regular, honest people that are looking for a shelter to live a peaceful life, and look how the fuck we are dealing with them. Like they were cattle. I'm really repulsed by the way europe is dealing with this and I really wish you or your family doesnt have to deal with some similar situation as them because you would regret that racist way of throught you have going.
Privileged ? being born in Sweden is being privileged ? thats all it takes ?
How am I racist ? �What race is " Refugee " � ? . You argument is that Im racist cause I dont want 300 thousand + refugees to Sweden/ Europe cause its a strain on the economy , the housing crisis , the unemployment rates , crime , intergration
The majority of these "refugees" Are young men who are unskilled workers with no education who dont speak the language
And your reply , He is racist �
But yeah what race is Refugee ?
Yeah, you're priviledged like i am. We both were born in a peaceful country and luckely didnt had to deal with any of those terrors the refugees have gone through. You dont wish that to your worst enemy, it's life of pain an misery. Why dont you show some compassion for them??
And also, racism, xenophobia, you understood what i meant. If they were german refugees you wouldnt be so scared. And not all of them are unskilled and ignorant (or criminals). Your country/europe are not doing the best to integrate them too. Pilling them into some ghetto it's not the best plan at all.
Sweden is a peaceful country ? 3 murders in 6 weeks at Refugee centres ? Police have " no go zones " . Fire and Ambulance get attacked when they go on emergency runs . Malmo had more then 4 shootings in 1 week , 2 of them died . Malmo had more then 10 bombs / hand granade attacks in 2015 .
You should check a Swedish media outlet out one day . Its all murders , shooting , bombs , stabbings and Refugee Rapes and Assaults
What privilege country has their Police press officers tell women not go out at night cause police cant protect them ?
And no I dont know what you mean . What Race is refugees ? What Race are german refugees ? As far as I know germans come in all sexes and races . What race do you assume german refugees are and why would I be more inclined to take in 300 thousand of them ?
How should Sweden and Europe integrate ? The ghettos are cheap to live in cause its shit there . The people who live there dont have jobs and speak limited Swedish so they are on benefits . Benefits dont allow you to move to the good areas
Even Swedish people have problems moving to the good areas since the prices are up in the millions for a 2 bedroom apartment . Many adults still live with their parents even when they have jobs since its too expensive to move out
Waiting que to get a rental apartment in a good area could take years . Theres a huge shortage of houses and apartments in todays market
What about jobs ? Why should you hire a young refugee with no school , no working experience and who cant speak Swedish . When theres Swedish people with perfect Swedish , a high school or college educations are looking for the same jobs as the refugees since we dont have enough jobs for the skilled workers ?
Why should refugees learn to integrate to europe when they can move to a ghetto where everybody speaks the same language as they did in their home country , Why should they get a job when benefits pays for their house and food .
70% of refugees in Sweden didnt have a job after more then 10 years in Sweden . Thats 10 years after entering the job market . Some of them didnt even know swedish and we offer them free school , we actually pay them to learn Swedish
Its interesting to see these people who are running for their lives seem to gravitate to the countries with highest standard of living and with the highest benefits for refugees . They are not stopping in the first safe countries . Everybody wants Germany and Sweden
I love how its always Sweden and Europe's fult . Its Europe's fult theres a war in their countries . Its Europe's fult we dont take in enough refugees . Its Europe's fault we dont solve the War over there . Its Europe's fault these people dont integrate into Europe
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Just took a quick look at the thread, and this caught my eye:
Many adults still live with their parents even when they have jobs since its too expensive to move out
(http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-447811-galleryV9-gbyo.jpg)
http://qz.com/45082/adults-who-live-with-their-parents-its-not-just-because-they-cant-get-a-job/ (http://qz.com/45082/adults-who-live-with-their-parents-its-not-just-because-they-cant-get-a-job/)
I pray every night for the Swedish youth. It's a hard knock life. I doubt that any one of us could survive with such a burden on our backs.
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More recent data:
(http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/thumb/9/91/Estimated_mean_age_of_leaving_the_parental_household%2C_by_sex%2C_2013.png/800px-Estimated_mean_age_of_leaving_the_parental_household%2C_by_sex%2C_2013.png)
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Estimated_mean_age_of_leaving_the_parental_household,_by_sex,_2013.png (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Estimated_mean_age_of_leaving_the_parental_household,_by_sex,_2013.png)
I guess this is just before the refugees started taking all the available apartments from the poor Swedes. I'm glad that at least they were generous enough to allow them to use the Internet.
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Privileged ? being born in Sweden is being privileged ? thats all it takes ?
i've been following this thread for a while - if there's one quote that illustrates how out of touch monty is with reality, it's this one
not saying being born and raised in Sweden is the definition of privilege but it's close. i've lived all over the US and in a few EU countries, and the general quality of life here in Stockholm is unparalleled. aside from Romani/Bulgarian street beggars (product of organized crime/human trafficking), you just don't encounter poverty on a day-to-day basis. even the african/middle eastern majority suburbs south of the city touted as "ghettos" are livelier + feel safer than most of Long Beach, CA.
Not learning the native language is not a barrier to employment here - English is spoken universally. there are western immigrants like myself who move here without knowing a word of Swedish and we're able to integrate with zero problems. Neither I nor my anglophone coworkers are ever criticized for it, we're only encouraged to keep learning the language. I'd be interested to see sources on Monty's statistics - I'm sure the majority of the immigrants he hates speak more than just their native language.
The subject of refugee criminality is a tough one - you have young men who, like myself, are leaving their home country seeking better opportunities wherever they can find them. Unfortunately, these are people coming from unimaginable backgrounds of war/chaos, a culture that regards women as property, and they're using a system that allows easy entry to children only. Of course anybody who thinks they can pass for 17 or younger is going to report himself as such. Once in the EU, the conditions for violence are still ripe. To think that every single male refugee will arrive in a western country and immediately conform to the culture is fantasy. The much-derided German anti-rape pamphlets are a well-meaning gesture but they severely undermine the seriousness of sexual assault, which defeats their purpose. You cannot expect all males raised in fundamentalist muslim culture to act respectfully towards western-dressed women without knowledge of the seriousness of the crime and its consequences.
I read a quote from a hotel manager in Kabul - whether it's real or not, I agree with the sentiment:
"What the Afghans are doing is not wrong in Afghanistan, so your rules are completely alien to them. ... If you want to stop Afghans from molesting Swedish girls, you need to be tough on them. ... The first time they behave badly, they should be given a warning, and the second time you should deport them from Sweden."
Refugees have committed quite a few rapes and murders in the past few months, and even though Sweden has led Europe in rates of sexual assaults since long before the current refugee crisis, the current wave is providing fuel for the fascist, anti-immigration Sweden Democrat movement & others. Thankfully, they still have little to no power here, as Sweden's population is still generally opposed to far-right sentiment.
This is the initial culture shock that I think was bound to happen. Cultural integration will take place with time, and Sweden will be better for it. This country has the resources, the collective conscience, and the majority public approval to help those suffering from the fallout of US imperalism overseas. There is evidence to suggest mass migration leads to economic growth, but that remains to be seen.
I can't say what will happen this summer, but the numbers are shaping up to be much more intense than the last. We might witness the dissolution of the EU over this issue
https://www.iom.int/news/mediterranean-migrant-arrivals-2016-pass-76000-deaths-top-400 (https://www.iom.int/news/mediterranean-migrant-arrivals-2016-pass-76000-deaths-top-400)
and monty, show me sources for all your statistics
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Privileged ? being born in Sweden is being privileged ? thats all it takes ?
i've been following this thread for a while - if there's one quote that illustrates how out of touch monty is with reality, it's this one
not saying being born and raised in Sweden is the definition of privilege but it's close. i've lived all over the US and in a few EU countries, and the general quality of life here in Stockholm is unparalleled. aside from Romani/Bulgarian street beggars (product of organized crime/human trafficking), you just don't encounter poverty on a day-to-day basis. even the african/middle eastern majority suburbs south of the city touted as "ghettos" are livelier + feel safer than most of Long Beach, CA.
Not learning the native language is not a barrier to employment here - English is spoken universally. there are western immigrants like myself who move here without knowing a word of Swedish and we're able to integrate with zero problems. Neither I nor my anglophone coworkers are ever criticized for it, we're only encouraged to keep learning the language. I'd be interested to see sources on Monty's statistics - I'm sure the majority of the immigrants he hates speak more than just their native language.
The subject of refugee criminality is a tough one - you have young men who, like myself, are leaving their home country seeking better opportunities wherever they can find them. Unfortunately, these are people coming from unimaginable backgrounds of war/chaos, a culture that regards women as property, and they're using a system that allows easy entry to children only. Of course anybody who thinks they can pass for 17 or younger is going to report himself as such. Once in the EU, the conditions for violence are still ripe. To think that every single male refugee will arrive in a western country and immediately conform to the culture is fantasy. The much-derided German anti-rape pamphlets are a well-meaning gesture but they severely undermine the seriousness of sexual assault, which defeats their purpose. You cannot expect all males raised in fundamentalist muslim culture to act respectfully towards western-dressed women without knowledge of the seriousness of the crime and its consequences.
I read a quote from a hotel manager in Kabul - whether it's real or not, I agree with the sentiment:
"What the Afghans are doing is not wrong in Afghanistan, so your rules are completely alien to them. ... If you want to stop Afghans from molesting Swedish girls, you need to be tough on them. ... The first time they behave badly, they should be given a warning, and the second time you should deport them from Sweden."
Refugees have committed quite a few rapes and murders in the past few months, and even though Sweden has led Europe in rates of sexual assaults since long before the current refugee crisis, the current wave is providing fuel for the fascist, anti-immigration Sweden Democrat movement & others. Thankfully, they still have little to no power here, as Sweden's population is still generally opposed to far-right sentiment.
This is the initial culture shock that I think was bound to happen. Cultural integration will take place with time, and Sweden will be better for it. This country has the resources, the collective conscience, and the majority public approval to help those suffering from the fallout of US imperalism overseas. There is evidence to suggest mass migration leads to economic growth, but that remains to be seen.
I can't say what will happen this summer, but the numbers are shaping up to be much more intense than the last. We might witness the dissolution of the EU over this issue
https://www.iom.int/news/mediterranean-migrant-arrivals-2016-pass-76000-deaths-top-400 (https://www.iom.int/news/mediterranean-migrant-arrivals-2016-pass-76000-deaths-top-400)
and monty, show me sources for all your statistics
You can't compare immigrants from western countries to the refugees. They are obviously judged very differently on the job market.
Integration won't be happening very smoothly. Going to take a couple generations until things start to go in a better direction, and until then the racist far right party is only going to grow stronger, as does the racist tension between the two sides.
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Alan keeps posting old statistics from the 17th century . Kind of like in the start of the thread where he was claiming there was no way sweden was going to get 300 thousand immigrants . Guess what happend ...
Infact has anything Ive said in this thread not happend in real life ?
not saying being born and raised in Sweden is the definition of privilege but it's close. i've lived all over the US and in a few EU countries, and the general quality of life here in Stockholm is unparalleled. aside from Romani/Bulgarian street beggars (product of organized crime/human trafficking), you just don't encounter poverty on a day-to-day basis. even the african/middle eastern majority suburbs south of the city touted as "ghettos" are livelier + feel safer than most of Long Beach, CA.
Fine , being born in Sweden is great . If you want to call it winning the lottery thats fine . I cant help having being born in Sweden . But comparing the ghettos of Sweden to Long Beach makes no sense . Its not a competition on who has its worse to win .
Im sure the ghettos of Somalia is 100 times worse then Long Beach . That doesnt make Long beach a good area or the ghettos of sweden good
Isnt the goal to have a safe country where everybody has a job , a home , kids in school where nobody gets raped and murderd ? The point isnt to turn Sweden into long beach or Somalia , cause long beach isnt that bad .
As nikki_fishstix Sweden and the EU is only going to be good until We are not good anymore .
Not learning the native language is not a barrier to employment here - English is spoken universally. there are western immigrants like myself who move here without knowing a word of Swedish and we're able to integrate with zero problems. Neither I nor my anglophone coworkers are ever criticized for it, we're only encouraged to keep learning the language. I'd be interested to see sources on Monty's statistics - I'm sure the majority of the immigrants he hates speak more than just their native language.
Sure , key word here is WESTERN . You might only speak english but you do have a proper education ? maybe a good resume . You probably moved to sweden with a job in mind ? maybe even had a job interview set up ?
Ive worked in many countries that didnt have english or swedish as the main language . But I have a education , I have work experience and before I moved over I had a job interview set up in one or more places .
Comparing a western skilled worker with a education to a middle eastern no skilled worker with no education is not a good example
Id be interested to hear what kind of education and job you have , what do you and your foreign friends do here ?
Refugees have committed quite a few rapes and murders in the past few months, and even though Sweden has led Europe in rates of sexual assaults since long before the current refugee crisis, the current wave is providing fuel for the fascist, anti-immigration Sweden Democrat movement & others. Thankfully, they still have little to no power here, as Sweden's population is still generally opposed to far-right sentiment.
People in Sweden want to help other people , what they see as a thanks is them commuting crimes . No wonder the Right who is saying less refugees are gaining traction . And if you think they have little power look at the polls . They went from one of the smallest parties in Sweden
to the Second biggest . Look at the other top parties in Sweden who have copy pasted the Rights policy of refugee politics
Biggest Party in Sweden Right now . Few years ago they called a new suggestion from the right as racist and crazy . This year they reintroduced the exact same suggestion pretty much word for word . It was all over the papers
This is the initial culture shock that I think was bound to happen. Cultural integration will take place with time, and Sweden will be better for it. This country has the resources, the collective conscience, and the majority public approval to help those suffering from the fallout of US imperalism overseas. There is evidence to suggest mass migration leads to economic growth, but that remains to be seen.
Why does Sweden need a culture shock ? Why should Sweden have to adapt ? Why should the EU adapt ? Why should women in Europe be raped and sexual assaulted by Afghan men ? just to have cultural integration ?
Im sure the Swedish girl murdered by a refugee was fine with Swedish culture and didnt want to die to get some more Somali culture to Sweden . We already have horrible ghettos from the past refugee influx . I Dont really see why taking in more refugees will make this better
To me this is the classic boat in the water . Sweden is taking on water and the boat is sinking , the solution is to take on more water ?
Cultural intergration in sweden is a horrible failed experiment , and it seems the answer is to take in even more people ...
And Ive been posting links to news media and statistics for 15 pages now . Everytime I do people try to dismiss them even when they come from good media sources or people ignore them . Im ok not posting links for now
You say the ghettos are safe but did you move to Tensta ? Did you move to Rinkeby ? or did you pick a better area ?
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Yeah, it's quite interesting how so many stories about criminal refugees in Germany and Austria are set in some small town or village, and then when they are investigated it turns out that they were made up. It's sad that this sort of fascist fear mongering still works today, when facts can be easily checked on the internet.
I dont know man?
Even the police cheif in Ostersund spoke out about it. And women being advised to stay off the streets at night because its become too dangerous.
What would the reasoning be for this type of fear mongering?
Alan is actually correct. That's exactly what's been happening in Germany for the past few months. Someone posts about refugees raping / molesting / beating / eating someone and then very likely others look into it and find out it didn't happen or the police denies the incident. I'm not saying this thing doesn't exist; it does (as Cologne proved), but I think it's far less of a problem than many believe. There's actually no serious statistic for an increase in rape in particular or crime in general in Germany.
All paranoia aside, all the German towns and cities I know (and I've lived in Germany for most of my life) are still really, really safe. And I mean safe as in I-don't-know-anyone-who-got-mugged-like-ever kinda safe.
Is this really any different in Sweden?
Swedish police covering up refugee crimes , filing them under a new secret code to prevent media finding out about it ?
No go zones in swedish ghettos where ambulances and fire department need armed police escort . And police wont go into and patrol unless they have a extra back up with them ?
Ghettos with 90% unemployment and less then 1 % Swedish born people
Ghettos with Sharia law enforcing patrols , Harassing muslims and none muslims to wear hajib and follow sharia law
Or what about that Australian 60 mins crew who were doing a report on integration / refugees in Sweden who went to a ghetto and got assaulted , pelted with rocks and needed a police escort
Don't get me wrong, but do you have any serious sources for that? I'm not saying you don't, but I'd like to see them. And The thing is that the exact same scenarios are depicted in German far-right internet posts (as Alan pointed out to you) and are debunked hours later. Just sayin'.
Just a general observation, some people in this thread are acting like Sweden is a war zone. Are we still talking about the Sweden that's top-tier for... well... almost everything? Like GDP, education, crime, health care, social security, you name it? No offense, but if you seriously think that things in Sweden are rough, you're completely out of your mind. Of all the places I've ever visited, G�teborg was by far the closest to the way things should be. If you haven't done so, I suggest you do a little bit of travelling or look at international comparison statistics... I know you're claiming that things went downhill ever since those refugees came in, but living in a country that took up 1,500,000 refugees in the past two years, I find that a little hard to believe. Believe it or not, but I have a hard time seeing an increase in crime over here. That's the perception of me and pretty much everyone I know in Germany. And as the article below indicates, the numbers speak the same language.
http://www.dw.com/en/report-refugees-have-not-increased-crime-rate-in-germany/a-18848890 (http://www.dw.com/en/report-refugees-have-not-increased-crime-rate-in-germany/a-18848890)
However, sadly, that's not the case for all crimes. See article below:
http://www.dw.com/en/attacks-on-refugees-in-germany-double-in-three-months/a-18833991 (http://www.dw.com/en/attacks-on-refugees-in-germany-double-in-three-months/a-18833991)
Note 1: DW (Deutsche Welle) is a serious, official news program. It's tough to find English-speaking articles on German domestic issues. Just trust me that various serious newspapers confirm this point of view.
Note 2: I'm not saying immigration is easy and without problems. It clearly is. I'm also not saying that immigrants aren't more likely to commit crimes than the "orignial population". However, these problems are a) more complex and b) not as impossible to solve as people on here pretend to believe.
Watch the German election going on now . You can see the far right coming into power again . This is Merkels own fult for bringing in all these refugees . All over Europe the Right is rising again .
I just want you to take a couple of things in to account. State elections happened in three states: Baden-Wuerttemberg, Rheinland-Pfalz and Sachsen-Anhalt. Here's the situation in each three:
Baden-Wuerttemberg: The green party won this election and will head the state government. The green party in general and their candidate in particular supported Merkel's immigration policy. Their victory can be seen as a little surprise, since they're not considered one of the two "major" parties. It's not a stretch to say that voters supported Merkel's immigration policy by voting green.
Rheinland-Pfalz: The social-democrats won this election. They did very, very badly in the two other elections. The candidate in Rheinland-Pfalz is clearly pro-immigration and supports Merkel. The federal head of the party is rather undecided. Many view this vote as an indication that voters supported a pro-Merkel social democrat and punished the party's general indecision in the two other states.
Sachsen-Anhalt: The conservatives (CDU / Merkel's party) and right-wing populists (AFD) came out as the two strongest parties. This election can be seen as a clear anti-immigration vote. Sachsen-Anhalt is an Easter German state. Eastern Germany in general and Sachsen-Anhalt in particular are a) economically weaker than West Germany, b) have only few immigrants, and c) have immense problems with right-wing extremism and racism. To a degree, it's to Germany what a Deep Southern state like Mississippi or Tennessee is to the US. In a nutshell, the political climate in Eastern Germany is completely different from West Germany. For obvious historical reasons...
And then here's the situation for two parties:
CDU / Merkel's party: This party is the clear overall loser of the election. There seem to be two reasons: a) A lot of traditional conservative voters don't agree with Merkel's policy and voted right-wing populists. b) This party has had its fair share of internal conflicts over Merkel's immigration policy. Some support it, other are outright against it. There's no coherence at all. Voters seem to have punished the party's general indecision.
AFD: This is the right-wing populist party. Yes, they're this election's clear winners. They're the only party that came up with a satisfactory result in all three states. They got more than 10% in RLP and BW (West Germany) and more about 25% in SA (Eastern Germany). There's been a right-wing backlash in Germany in the past few months (ever since Cologne) and this party contributed to this and benefitted from it at the same time. This is also a sign that a lot of conservative voters have moved to the right and are not happy with the conservative party and Merkel's lax immigration policy. You're completely right as far as this is concerned. However, keep in mind that minor parties of all colors have seen landslide successes in the past. Some of them (Piratenpartei, Schillpartei, to a degree also FDP) have vanished shortly after.
However, this doesn't represent Germany as a whole. In fact, it rather seems like Germany is really divided over the refugee debate right now. Divided means a lot of people - and we're talking about the clear majority over here - are in favor of taking up refugees. Some think Merkel should be a little tougher, others think immigration policies should be ever more liberal, but overall most people agree with her general outlook. This is my personal experience living in this country and communicating with people. This is also what 3/4 of voters voted for yesterday. Overall, people are backing Merkel and her immigration policy. The trouble is that she's heading the conservative party - a party that's clearly on the right side of the spectrum - a party that's "tough" on immigration. Her party and some of her voters are not too happy with her right now and that's why Merkel's in trouble. To sum this up, German society supports her, her own party doesn't.
Long story short, that's why your view is a little dramatic, even though I agree with its general tendency. Yes, there's been a backlash, but no, fascism isn't taking over Germany. And it's ridiculous to argue that one should have tough immigration laws to prevent racism.
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How am I racist ? What race is " Refugee " ? . You argument is that Im racist cause I dont want 300 thousand + refugees to Sweden/ Europe cause its a strain on the economy , the housing crisis , the unemployment rates , crime , intergration
But yeah what race is Refugee ?
You're completely deluded if you're splitting hairs over here. Just for you information, racism isn't necessarily linked to the 19th century concept of race. That would be neat, wouldn't it? Nobody would be racist anymore and nobody would accuse you of racism.
Here's the widely accepted United Nations definition of racism:
1. In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CERD.aspx (http://www.ohchr.org/EN/ProfessionalInterest/Pages/CERD.aspx)
People say refugees nowadays and mean people from Muslim countries. That's why it is racism.
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Privileged ? being born in Sweden is being privileged ? thats all it takes ?
i've been following this thread for a while - if there's one quote that illustrates how out of touch monty is with reality, it's this one
not saying being born and raised in Sweden is the definition of privilege but it's close. i've lived all over the US and in a few EU countries, and the general quality of life here in Stockholm is unparalleled. aside from Romani/Bulgarian street beggars (product of organized crime/human trafficking), you just don't encounter poverty on a day-to-day basis. even the african/middle eastern majority suburbs south of the city touted as "ghettos" are livelier + feel safer than most of Long Beach, CA.
Not learning the native language is not a barrier to employment here - English is spoken universally. there are western immigrants like myself who move here without knowing a word of Swedish and we're able to integrate with zero problems. Neither I nor my anglophone coworkers are ever criticized for it, we're only encouraged to keep learning the language. I'd be interested to see sources on Monty's statistics - I'm sure the majority of the immigrants he hates speak more than just their native language.
The subject of refugee criminality is a tough one - you have young men who, like myself, are leaving their home country seeking better opportunities wherever they can find them. Unfortunately, these are people coming from unimaginable backgrounds of war/chaos, a culture that regards women as property, and they're using a system that allows easy entry to children only. Of course anybody who thinks they can pass for 17 or younger is going to report himself as such. Once in the EU, the conditions for violence are still ripe. To think that every single male refugee will arrive in a western country and immediately conform to the culture is fantasy. The much-derided German anti-rape pamphlets are a well-meaning gesture but they severely undermine the seriousness of sexual assault, which defeats their purpose. You cannot expect all males raised in fundamentalist muslim culture to act respectfully towards western-dressed women without knowledge of the seriousness of the crime and its consequences.
I read a quote from a hotel manager in Kabul - whether it's real or not, I agree with the sentiment:
"What the Afghans are doing is not wrong in Afghanistan, so your rules are completely alien to them. ... If you want to stop Afghans from molesting Swedish girls, you need to be tough on them. ... The first time they behave badly, they should be given a warning, and the second time you should deport them from Sweden."
Refugees have committed quite a few rapes and murders in the past few months, and even though Sweden has led Europe in rates of sexual assaults since long before the current refugee crisis, the current wave is providing fuel for the fascist, anti-immigration Sweden Democrat movement & others. Thankfully, they still have little to no power here, as Sweden's population is still generally opposed to far-right sentiment.
This is the initial culture shock that I think was bound to happen. Cultural integration will take place with time, and Sweden will be better for it. This country has the resources, the collective conscience, and the majority public approval to help those suffering from the fallout of US imperalism overseas. There is evidence to suggest mass migration leads to economic growth, but that remains to be seen.
I can't say what will happen this summer, but the numbers are shaping up to be much more intense than the last. We might witness the dissolution of the EU over this issue
https://www.iom.int/news/mediterranean-migrant-arrivals-2016-pass-76000-deaths-top-400 (https://www.iom.int/news/mediterranean-migrant-arrivals-2016-pass-76000-deaths-top-400)
and monty, show me sources for all your statistics
Really good post!
Sometimes people like Monty complain that "one can't discuss immigrant crime anymore" due to "political correctness". Your post shows that you clearly can. There's a difference between discussing the issue like adults and looking for justifications to hate Muslim refugees.
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AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice
Ill post some links up in the next post I make , its a fucking mess finding articles with a English language laptop goggling in Swedish .
Just a general observation, some people in this thread are acting like Sweden is a war zone
Im sure Sweden is topping many lists . That doesnt mean that bombs and hand grenades are not blowing up in Malmo . Or that people are not getting gang raped in Stockholm or Malmo . Should we just accept it ? Stop complaining about people getting shot in the street ?
The whole world is better of then 1000s of years ago , less people are getting killed in war and by disease but that doesnt make Sweden a good country when bombs are going off and people are getting shot in the street
Its easy for Adults and Politicians to sit in areas where there is low Imigration and not many refugees . I grew up in Malmo . Some things you see different then statistics when you grow up in it .
Long story short, that's why your view is a little dramatic, even though I agree with its general tendency. Yes, there's been a backlash, but no, fascism isn't taking over Germany. And it's ridiculous to argue that one should have tough immigration laws to prevent racism.
If you dont think a country like Germany who had death camps for people of other religion and race in 1940 and just 70 or 80 years later have a huge following for far right parties is dangerous . Im not sure whos thought process is ridiculous
Things never just happen . It starts slow and before you know it its full on . You dont even need the majority of people
you're completely deluded if you're splitting hairs over here. Just for you information, racism isn't necessarily linked to the 19th century concept of race. That would be neat, wouldn't it? Nobody would be racist anymore and nobody would accuse you of racism.
Racism is more often linked to race , then social status . Black lives Matter is based on Black people being shot by None Black people .
The Oscars fight this year was about black actors saying there were not enough black people / movies nominated
race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin
So Race = Race , Colour = Race , National = Most often Race , Ethnic Orgin = Most often Race
People say refugees nowadays and mean people from Muslim countries. That's why it is racism.
You say refugees are from Muslim countries . I never said Refugees = Muslims . For me refugees come from all religions all countries all sexes and all races .
You are the racist for suggesting refugees are all from muslim countries
Sometimes people like Monty complain that "one can't discuss immigrant crime anymore" due to "political correctness". Your post shows that you clearly can. There's a difference between discussing the issue like adults and looking for justifications to hate Muslim refugees.
In this thread Ive posted my views calm and with no insults . Backing it up with media articles and sources .
So far Ive been accused of being a Racist , Fascist , Nazi , Islamophobe . Ive been called names and one person even threatend to rape me
GG
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Swedish Ghettos
Rinkeby 91% Foreigners
Tensta 87 % Foreigners
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinkeby (https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinkeby)
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensta (https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensta)
Swedish police cover up . Basicly every time there was a crime involving a refugee or refugee center the police made up a secret code and filed it under 291 . So a rape was not a regular rape , it was a 291 rape . Media was not informed of this and didnt know about the code .
This was commented by Swedish Police press to be cause of effect to not give the Right more Ammo and votes
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/polisen-hemlighaller-fakta-om-sitt-flyktingarbete/ (http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/polisen-hemlighaller-fakta-om-sitt-flyktingarbete/)
2 or more years in a row Police and the festival We Are Stockholm coverd up sex attacks by youth refugees . Media was allso accused of knowing about it but not reporting on it
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/11/swedish-police-accused-cover-up-sex-attacks-refugees-festival)
Fire deparment , Police and Ambulances attacked . This is going on in all ghettos of sweden , you can find alot more if you search for it , Heres a article of one incident , and a new suggestion to strengthen the law giving harder punishment for it
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kravaller-i-rinkeby (http://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kravaller-i-rinkeby)
http://avpixlat.info/2016/02/07/ambulans-attackerad-i-invandrartat-stockholmsforort/ (http://avpixlat.info/2016/02/07/ambulans-attackerad-i-invandrartat-stockholmsforort/)
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/ambulans-ryckte-ut--blev-sonderslagen/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/ambulans-ryckte-ut--blev-sonderslagen/)
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/kraver-hardare-straff-efter-flera-attacker/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/kraver-hardare-straff-efter-flera-attacker/)
70 % of Refugees , over 10 years in Sweden and still no job , This is only the people who are actively applying for jobs and In the program to find a job . You can only assume how many dropped out after 5 years of not finding a job or 10 years
Of the people with Jobs some of them are hired on the base that the government will pay most of the pay check and give the company extra money on incisive to hire refugees
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/malmo/unika-siffror-svarare-for-flyktingar-att-fa-jobb-i-malmo/ (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/malmo/unika-siffror-svarare-for-flyktingar-att-fa-jobb-i-malmo/)
discussion about it https://www.reddit.com/r/sweden/comments/46jmg8/64_procent_av_flyktingarna_i_malm%C3%B6_fortfarande/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/sweden/comments/46jmg8/64_procent_av_flyktingarna_i_malm%C3%B6_fortfarande/)
No go Zones . If you search for more you can find other articles about police not going on patrols or arrests with serious back up
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2119/journalist-went-to-swedish-no-go-zone-to-interview-stone-throwers-was-stoned.html (http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.2119/journalist-went-to-swedish-no-go-zone-to-interview-stone-throwers-was-stoned.html)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3470619/60-Minutes-crew-filming-reporter-Liz-Hayes-attacked-bloodied-group-masked-African-men-interviews-European-refugee-crisis.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3470619/60-Minutes-crew-filming-reporter-Liz-Hayes-attacked-bloodied-group-masked-African-men-interviews-European-refugee-crisis.html)
http://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/ (http://swedenreport.org/2015/05/18/police-yes-there-are-no-go-zones-in-sweden/)
http://nyheter24.se/nyheter/inrikes/814736-har-attackeras-polisen-i-svenska-fororten (http://nyheter24.se/nyheter/inrikes/814736-har-attackeras-polisen-i-svenska-fororten)
Swedish Sharia laws . THeres been undercover stories by SVT and TV4 ( Swedens biggest tv news outlets ) both about Females in Sweden getting checked if they are virgins in clinics for future marriages . And Clerics at mosks telling women not to report physical abuse to the police
http://www.svd.se/oskuldskontroll-jamfors-med-valdtakt (http://www.svd.se/oskuldskontroll-jamfors-med-valdtakt)
http://www.tv4.se/kalla-fakta/artiklar/oskuldskontroller-p%C3%A5-unga-tjejer-56134df2fca38f0df7000002 (http://www.tv4.se/kalla-fakta/artiklar/oskuldskontroller-p%C3%A5-unga-tjejer-56134df2fca38f0df7000002)
http://www.svt.se/ug/muslimska-ledare-uppmanar-kvinnor-till-underkastelse (http://www.svt.se/ug/muslimska-ledare-uppmanar-kvinnor-till-underkastelse)
Swedish school , less are graduation / finishing the courses . And results are down , Pisa evaluation
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3491792/Migrant-crisis-blame-falling-standards-Swedish-schools-say-officials.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3491792/Migrant-crisis-blame-falling-standards-Swedish-schools-say-officials.html)
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/fridolin-om-rapporten-dar-har-vi-brustit/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/fridolin-om-rapporten-dar-har-vi-brustit/)
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/skolverket-ger-svar-om-skolresultaten/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/skolverket-ger-svar-om-skolresultaten/)
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This is the initial culture shock that I think was bound to happen. Cultural integration will take place with time, and Sweden will be better for it. This country has the resources, the collective conscience, and the majority public approval to help those suffering from the fallout of US imperalism overseas. There is evidence to suggest mass migration leads to economic growth, but that remains to be seen.
I disagree. It depends on the situation of economy. When economy is bad migration is problem, when economy is doing good immigration gives more boost. Europe needs a few immigrants/refugees due to its aging problem, however present form of capitalism has a serious problem of job creation and cant cater many. So the solution for the elites is to exclude the majority of people instead of creating more jobs.
Also the only way to talk with monty is in one line with words like "fuck you racist person"
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This one is in greek but I post it for the photos. This is the answer from refugees and immigrants to the closed borders. They will cross them no matter what. They found passages that fences cant close because of thick forests, river or uneven landscape. This is ironic as politicians here are arguing about the form of detention centers while people continue fleeing in illegal ways.
http://www.nostimonimar.gr/greekborders-refugees-exodus/ (http://www.nostimonimar.gr/greekborders-refugees-exodus/)
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Ill post some links up in the next post I make , its a fucking mess finding articles with a English language laptop goggling in Swedish .
Im sure Sweden is topping many lists . That doesnt mean that bombs and hand grenades are not blowing up in Malmo . Or that people are not getting gang raped in Stockholm or Malmo . Should we just accept it ? Stop complaining about people getting shot in the street ?
The whole world is better of then 1000s of years ago , less people are getting killed in war and by disease but that doesnt make Sweden a good country when bombs are going off and people are getting shot in the street
Its easy for Adults and Politicians to sit in areas where there is low Imigration and not many refugees . I grew up in Malmo . Some things you see different then statistics when you grow up in it .
No, you shouldn't accept it. That's what the justice system is there for. But it's important to put things in perspective. You're acting like Sweden is the crime and rape centre of the world. I don't know too much about Sweden and I've only been to Goteborg visiting a friend for a few days, but from all I know Malmo isn't exactly the textbook example for good integration of immigrants. Wasn't that where Zlatan grew up? I'm not denying your experience at all, but again it'd be good idea to put things in perspective.
If you dont think a country like Germany who had death camps for people of other religion and race in 1940 and just 70 or 80 years later have a huge following for far right parties is dangerous . Im not sure whos thought process is ridiculous
Things never just happen . It starts slow and before you know it its full on . You dont even need the majority of people
Of course not. I actually think that development is dangerous. But just not to the extent of your imagination. Your whole view on this issue is apocalyptic: immigrants are flooding Europe and crime is going rampant while fascists claim country after country. Calm the fuck down. Yes, it's a crisis, but it's not the first one to happen in the last 70 years.
Racism is more often linked to race , then social status . Black lives Matter is based on Black people being shot by None Black people .
The Oscars fight this year was about black actors saying there were not enough black people / movies nominated
Expand Quote
race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin
So Race = Race , Colour = Race , National = Most often Race , Ethnic Orgin = Most often Race
You say refugees are from Muslim countries . I never said Refugees = Muslims . For me refugees come from all religions all countries all sexes and all races .
You are the racist for suggesting refugees are all from muslim countries
Ok. You still have no idea what racism is. Not even after I handed a definition to you. And you're still splitting hairs and coming up with confusing definitions.
And there's nothing racist about saying that most refugees RIGHT NOW are Muslims. Of course, refugees can be from other parts of the world. But we're talking about the situation right now, aren't we? Or are we talking about the past? Sorry if I got that whole thing wrong...
Stop pulling a Donald Trump by just reversely accusing people of racism in defence. That trick doesn't work. You're clearly disliking refugees on ethnic grounds. People are right in calling you a racist. Everyone gets it. But the beautiful thing about racists is that they don't see it themselves. Nobody calls themselves a racist anymore (except for some nuts). But it's not like racism just disappeared. And police violence against African Americans is just one of MANY forms of racism. Setting refugee shelters on fire or hate speech against immigrants on the internet another. And you're clearly guilty of the latter.
And you know why? Because you're looking at this whole thing without the least visible empathy for refugees. Refugees for you mean crime, not people escaping from war zones. You can claim that Sweden should close its borders all you want as long as you realize the human tragedy involved. And it doesn't look like you do.
In this thread Ive posted my views calm and with no insults . Backing it up with media articles and sources .
So far Ive been accused of being a Racist , Fascist , Nazi , Islamophobe . Ive been called names and one person even threatend to rape me
GG
You know, these fascists you're so afraid of use similar sources. If you're not one of them, why do you draw similar conclusions? Why do you spend so much time here defending yourself? Why do you post every single incident involving refugees on the SLAP message board?
From time to time, I get back to this thread and try to have a discussion with you. But its your racism that reveals itself slowly but ever more clearly, which makes me regret this every single time...
PS: Thanks for posting these sources btw. I'll look into them tomorrow.
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I read the other day that the AfD won the most votes in the province with one of the smallest numbers of immigrants, under 3 percent of the population. I guess they too fell for the fear mongering tactics. Probably because they wanted to.
On a related note, blaming foreigners for the rise of racism/fascism is some backward ass victim blaming.
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No, you shouldn't accept it. That's what the justice system is there for. But it's important to put things in perspective. You're acting like Sweden is the crime and rape centre of the world. I don't know too much about Sweden and I've only been to Goteborg visiting a friend for a few days, but from all I know Malmo isn't exactly the textbook example for good integration of immigrants. Wasn't that where Zlatan grew up? I'm not denying your experience at all, but again it'd be good idea to put things in perspective.
Do me a favour and google " Rape in Sweden " check the first few pages and see what comes up
Sweden boasts of being super liberal , super feminist , super safe and stable . But look at our rape statistics . If I was a female in Sweden I would walk around with a gun
Malmo is a total failure in integration and its one of the cities that has the most immigrants . See a pattern ? When you grow up in it and now live in it again
I have swedish friends who have been openly targeted for being Swedish , including myself . And I have foreign friends who dont feel safe in Malmo cause Swedes are attacking immigrants cause they are immigrants
Growing up in Malmo you know what the bad areas are and who live there . And you know who are in the gangs
Of course not. I actually think that development is dangerous. But just not to the extent of your imagination. Your whole view on this issue is apocalyptic: immigrants are flooding Europe and crime is going rampant while fascists claim country after country. Calm the fuck down. Yes, it's a crisis, but it's not the first one to happen in the last 70 years.
We are not there yet . But there is a escalation of far right movements in legit political power . There is a escalation of conflicts and war zones
The EU is in its worst state where countries are threatening to exit , countries openly defy EU laws . And Countries are threatening to take other countries to court over things
Its only fine until its not fine anymore . Its only not ww3 until its not ww3 . You think the people from WW1 thought there would be a new world war just afew years later ? Im sure they thought the world can never fuck up that bad again
We got super lucky Russia didnt flip out too bad over their jet getting shot down by Turkey . If Russia went after Turkey it would most likely be ww3
You're clearly disliking refugees on ethnic grounds. People are right in calling you a racist. Everyone gets it.
Thats not true . I dont like sweden took in 300 thousand refugees from North Africa and the Middle east .
I would not like if Sweden took in 300 thousand from South America , North America , Asia , Australia , France , Denmark , Norway or any other country . Does this mean Im racist against all countries and all races ?
Or does this mean I see a problem with how much it will cost , intergration problems and other social problems ?
I would say however that if Sweden took in 300 thousand of Danish or norwiegans there would be less of a integration problem since the cultures , laws , language and everything ells is virtual the same
You know, these fascists you're so afraid of use similar sources. If you're not one of them, why do you draw similar conclusions? Why do you spend so much time here defending yourself? Why do you post every single incident involving refugees on the SLAP message board?
Are you seriously asking me why Im defending myself ?
Are you seriously asking me why Im posting news articles and facts in a thread where Im trying to prove my point ?
Do you ask rape victims why they wore such a short skirt ? or people doing school projects why they are posting sources aswell ?
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I read the other day that the AfD won the most votes in the province with one of the smallest numbers of immigrants, under 3 percent of the population. I guess they too fell for the fear mongering tactics. Probably because they wanted to.
On a related note, blaming foreigners for the rise of racism/fascism is some backward ass victim blaming.
Yeah, that's true. Sachsen-Anhalt is a poor, rural Eastern German province with few immigrants. It's a very complex issue. Now that I live in Eastern Germany I realize it's even more complicated. In a nutshell, Eastern Germany and Western Germany are still two different countries as far as politics are concerned. In their self-perception, one is a multi-cultural nation similar to the UK or France, while the other is an ethnic nation state like Poland or the Czech Republic. People in Eastern Germany aren't afraid of immigrants, because the few they have cause problems, but because they fear that they'll bring chaos and crime to their small world. People are also poor and job opportunities are lacking. They envy the benefits refugees get. And they're afraid that immigrants will overtake them. Fear is definitely the driving factor behind racism and fascism in Eastern Germany.
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You're clearly disliking refugees on ethnic grounds. People are right in calling you a racist. Everyone gets it.
Thats not true . I dont like sweden took in 300 thousand refugees from North Africa and the Middle east .
I would not like if Sweden took in 300 thousand from South America , North America , Asia , Australia , France , Denmark , Norway or any other country . Does this mean Im racist against all countries and all races ?
Or does this mean I see a problem with how much it will cost , intergration problems and other social problems ?
I would say however that if Sweden took in 300 thousand of Danish or norwiegans there would be less of a integration problem since the cultures , laws , language and everything ells is virtual the same
That's bullshit. You openly declare that you dislike refugees from North Africa and the Middle East and you're still asking why you're a racist, just because you're being specific about your racism? Are you kidding me? Donald Trump doesn't have anything against immigrants from Canada, Europe, or Australia either. Just those from Latin America and the Middle East. So does PEGIDA (Patriotic Europeans against the Islamisation of the Occident). Does that mean they're not racist?
Are you seriously asking me why Im defending myself ?
Are you seriously asking me why Im posting news articles and facts in a thread where Im trying to prove my point ?
Do you ask rape victims why they wore such a short skirt ? or people doing school projects why they are posting sources aswell ?
Yes I am. Why do you spend so much time and energy to prove your point on a fucking skate forum? Why do you post incidents involving refugees when nobody posted in this thread for days? Why are you so keen on keeping this going? There's something eerie about this. You could've walked away after the first couple of discussions and it would've been fine, but this seems to be really important to you. Did you ever wonder why so many people stopped discussing this with you? And did you come up with a better answer than "political correctness"?
Are you comparing yourself to rape victims? You're out of your mind.
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In their self-perception, one is a multi-cultural nation similar to the UK or France, while the other is an ethnic nation state like Poland or the Czech Republic.
This is a great point.
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In their self-perception, one is a multi-cultural nation similar to the UK or France, while the other is an ethnic nation state like Poland or the Czech Republic.
This is a great point.
Rule of thumb: Do the opposite of whatever Poland is doing. Dumbest fucking country on Earth by far.
"Hey, let's put half of our 1337 in a piece of Russian shit Tupolev plane* !" The irony that they crashed in Russia is beyond fiction...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-154#Incidents_and_accidents
Those fuckers refused my parents entry back in the 90's. Revenge!
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That's bullshit. You openly declare that you dislike refugees from North Africa and the Middle East and you're still asking why you're a racist, just because you're being specific about your racism? Are you kidding me? Donald Trump doesn't have anything against immigrants from Canada, Europe, or Australia either. Just those from Latin America and the Middle East. So does PEGIDA (Patriotic Europeans against the Islamisation of the Occident). Does that mean they're not racist?
Im gonna need some quotes on this . You have 16 pages to go through . Show me a quote from me where I say I dislike Africans , arabs , asians , white people or any other race
Yes I am. Why do you spend so much time and energy to prove your point on a fucking skate forum? Why do you post incidents involving refugees when nobody posted in this thread for days? Why are you so keen on keeping this going? There's something eerie about this. You could've walked away after the first couple of discussions and it would've been fine, but this seems to be really important to you. Did you ever wonder why so many people stopped discussing this with you? And did you come up with a better answer than "political correctness"?
Are you comparing yourself to rape victims? You're out of your mind.
Im not comparing myself to a rape victim . Im suggesting your questions are ridicules , just like asking a rape victim what she was wearing
Why are you asking somebody who is being verbally attacked , getting called names and reviving rape threats why he is defending himself ?
Am I not supposed to defend my point of view or character ?
Its a stupid question to ask somebody who is being attacked physical or verbal why he is defending himself
I did walk away from it .
It was tufty who bumped this thread 2 times in a row after it reached page 2 and 3 . If you look back afew pages you can see posts from me telling people to stop bumping this thread and let it die
Its also hilarious that YOU ask me for proof , media links and sources to my claims . And then ask me why I post media links and sources ...
I dont really spend much time on this either . Just opening up any media web page and I can find news articles on refugees committing crimes . Thats about 2 minutes of my time . And writing these posts takes less then 5 mins . And its my day off
Are you asking me why its important to debate ? or have discussions ? or why its important to talk about things like mass refugee influx ?
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That's bullshit. You openly declare that you dislike refugees from North Africa and the Middle East and you're still asking why you're a racist, just because you're being specific about your racism? Are you kidding me? Donald Trump doesn't have anything against immigrants from Canada, Europe, or Australia either. Just those from Latin America and the Middle East. So does PEGIDA (Patriotic Europeans against the Islamisation of the Occident). Does that mean they're not racist?
Im gonna need some quotes on this . You have 16 pages to go through . Show me a quote from me where I say I dislike Africans , arabs , asians , white people or any other race
Oops. I actually misread that quote of yours. Which is actually... well... kinda embarassing. This one's on me. Like seriously. Here's what I read:
Thats not true . I dont like sweden took in 300 thousand refugees from North Africa and the Middle east .
I would not like if Sweden took in 300 thousand from South America , North America , Asia , Australia , France , Denmark , Norway or any other country . Does this mean Im racist against all countries and all races ?
So you don't like foreigners in your country. I get it. That makes it so much better.
Im not comparing myself to a rape victim . Im suggesting your questions are ridicules , just like asking a rape victim what she was wearing
Why are you asking somebody who is being verbally attacked , getting called names and reviving rape threats why he is defending himself ?
Am I not supposed to defend my point of view or character ?
Its a stupid question to ask somebody who is being attacked physical or verbal why he is defending himself
I did walk away from it .
It was tufty who bumped this thread 2 times in a row after it reached page 2 and 3 . If you look back afew pages you can see posts from me telling people to stop bumping this thread and let it die
Its also hilarious that YOU ask me for proof , media links and sources to my claims . And then ask me why I post media links and sources ...
I dont really spend much time on this either . Just opening up any media web page and I can find news articles on refugees committing crimes . Thats about 2 minutes of my time . And writing these posts takes less then 5 mins . And its my day off
Are you asking me why its important to debate ? or have discussions ? or why its important to talk about things like mass refugee influx ?
That's exactly the point. If most people are accused of something they're not, they just walk away and say fuck it. And it's not just Tufty who brought this thread back from the dead. You did a couple of times in addition to opening up a whole new thread about Cologne. You're free to do whatever, but this doesn't look like you're just defending yourself against wrong accusations.
And you're still comparing yourself to rape victims. In that simile, you and the rape victim hold the same position. Which is ridiculous. And for the record, I didn't criticize you for posting sources when I asked you to. I criticized you for failing to call it quits at the right time.
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So you don't like foreigners in your country. I get it. That makes it so much better.
I thought you said you have read the thread ? Ive said multiple times that Im Pro skilled worker immigration . Im a huge fan of the schengen agreement where you could travel to any EU country and have 3 months to find a job . If not you have to leave
If a Afghan wanted to come to Sweden and look for a job for 3 months Im all for it . But if he doesnt get a job he has to leave . And he shouldnt be allowed benefits when he is here those 3 months
Ive also said I myself have gone to different countries and gotten a job there . But yes I was not on benefits and I did have a job within 2 weeks of being in the new country . I was a minority in Singapore .
But this isnt the situation is it ? Afghanistan is not in the EU , and they are on benefits while they are here , and its for longer then 3 months
Its more like 10 years on benefits ...
If it was up to me Sweden should invite all the best teachers , sports stars , scientists , political leaders , military personal of all countries , races and sexes
That's exactly the point. If most people are accused of something they're not, they just walk away and say fuck it.
Its my own choise what battles to fight . I dont mind being called a homosexual since I dont think theres anything wrong with it . But I do mind being called a Racist, Fascist and a Nazi since I think these things are bad
Some people think you can say anything on the internet since its all pretty anonymous . I dont agree , insulting people and calling them things like Nazis should have consequences
And it's not just Tufty who brought this thread back from the dead. You did a couple of times in addition to opening up a whole new thread about Cologne.
Show me the time stamps of the times I bumped this thread after long inactivity . It shows in the post so you should be able to do it .
unless you are mistaken of course
I did the Cologne thread cause its not on topic about what we are discussing here in this thread . Or are you suggesting that the influx of refugees are connected to the increase of sexual assaults and rapes ?
You're free to do whatever, but this doesn't look like you're just defending yourself against wrong accusations.
Sure I am , and Im not sure what it looks like to you ? seems like you have assumed things about me more then 3 times now
where I have proven that you dont know what you think of me or my opinions
And you're still comparing yourself to rape victims. In that simile, you and the rape victim hold the same position. Which is ridiculous.
I was comparing the questions . Now who is splitting hairs ?
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Sweden has "always" had an integration problem, it's nothing new. It's probably more the fault of the Swedish way of doing it, rather than the amount of refugees. Malmö was a violent shithole before this refugee wave, assuming that there must be something really fucked in the Swedish way of (not) integrating refugees. Norway and Denmark isn't this bad, and in your own words we are pretty much the same culture, so how can Sweden fix their issue? Cause these refugees aren't going away any time soon. FYI I grew up in a neighborhood with 34% foreigners, majority of them were Africans, before you school me on how bad it is to grow up among people who do not share your cultural values.
You simply can't talk about refugees as normal immigrants, that's not what a refugee is.
A refugee, according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees is a person who is outside their country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, and is unable to obtain sanctuary from their home country or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail themselves of the protection of that country; or in the case of not having a nationality and being outside their country of former habitual residence as a result of such event, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to their country of former habitual residence. Such a person may be called an "asylum seeker" until considered with the status of "refugee" by the Contracting State where they formally make a claim for sanctuary or right of asylum.
This is what makes a refugee. That Afghan who you would rather see come as a seasonal worker might not have a home to return to at the end of summer... If you think Malmö is heavy try spending a day in the Helmand Province or in Raqqa.
One thing is clear to me Monty, you lack empathy for refugees.
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This is so sad. We're talking about human lives, and there's clearly no single solution. It's either let em burn or shame them in Europe? Backwards ass trash like PEGIDA can rot.
Understand the politicians are doing their best, it's not exactly an easy job! Invasion isn't a word that can be used when they are granted asylum by the state. You don't see boats of Somali pirates illegally entering Sweden so stop saying INVASION.
Mexicans and Cubans literally invade America 365 days of the year. It's only a problem because they end up dead frequently, like all day everyday because they invade illegally and die in 115 heat. That being said if they were Muslim America would have a much different reaction than simply sending them back
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Sweden has "always" had an integration problem, it's nothing new. It's probably more the fault of the Swedish way of doing it, rather than the amount of refugees. Malm� was a violent shithole before this refugee wave, assuming that there must be something really fucked in the Swedish way of (not) integrating refugees. Norway and Denmark isn't this bad, and in your own words we are pretty much the same culture, so how can Sweden fix their issue? Cause these refugees aren't going away any time soon. FYI I grew up in a neighborhood with 34% foreigners, majority of them were Africans, before you school me on how bad it is to grow up among people who do not share your cultural values.
I dont know why Sweden is more fucked then Norway and Denmark . Just tonight news in Sweden
3 people stabbed in Goteborg
1 Woman was stabbed by a unknown man in Orebro
2 Women were jumped in 2 separate cases and beaten up
4 cars set on fire ( this goes hand in hand with a spree of car fires all around the country , 4 people arrested for it in Malmo )
30 people in a big fight with swords and baseball bats in helsingborg
5 atleast involved in a school stabbing incident in Malmo
You sure Sweden isnt worse then Helmand Province or Raqqa Essal ?
You simply can't talk about refugees as normal immigrants, that's not what a refugee is
I wasnt suggesting that either . It was a response to AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice saying I didnt want foreigners in Sweden .
This is what makes a refugee. That Afghan who you would rather see come as a seasonal worker might not have a home to return to at the end of summer...
Im not saying he has to be a seasonal worker . Thats up to him . Sweden cant be held responsible for his home in Afghanistan when he comes here to work . What kind of crazy requirement is that ?
Im saying that if a chef from Afghanistan wants to come to work in Sweden , he can apply for a job , go for the job interview and if he gets it he can stay in Sweden and work as a chef . But He isnt allowed to have full time benefits while he is looking for a job . Or bring his hole family over to Sweden after one month in the country
One thing is clear to me Monty, you lack empathy for refugees.
You might be right there . I understand what they are going through and I dont wish it upon them . But I can see the effect they have on the EU and Sweden and its not good . So I dont want us to deal with it
I forgot to add Im for Military intervention from USA , South America , EU and Nato , Russia and any other nation that wants to help . I do want to help them , but its by wiping out the talban , wiping out ISIS and keeping the refugees in countries close by so they can return home again
So Maybe saying I dont have empathy is wrong
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You sure Sweden isnt worse then Helmand Province or Raqqa Essal ?
100% sure. You can't compare violence in Sweden to a full scale war...
As for working; In Norway, asylum seekers (including refugees) aren't allowed to work until they have been granted asylum (which can take as much as 5+ years to figure out). I think this is fucked and I believe it's the major root cause for a lot of issues. Basically they sit at the center all day with not a fucking thing to do and without interacting with society. A lot of them turn to drug dealing, cause that's pretty much the only way you can make money. Is it the same in Sweden? Maybe we should give them some skateboards or something...
Let's just put it like this; You have to deal with it. Sending them home isn't an option until you can guarantee that they won't be ISIS sex slaves, killed by Assad or beheaded by the Taliban. This is not some easy solve that Europe can just pull out of their asses.
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You sure Sweden isnt worse then Helmand Province or Raqqa Essal ?
LOL! You are hiting new levels of person here.
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If a Afghan wanted to come to Sweden and look for a job for 3 months Im all for it . But if he doesnt get a job he has to leave . And he shouldnt be allowed benefits when he is here those 3 months
Ive also said I myself have gone to different countries and gotten a job there . But yes I was not on benefits and I did have a job within 2 weeks of being in the new country . I was a minority in Singapore .
In no way are these two situations comparable to each other. You moving to Singapore to work isn't exactly the same thing as an Afghan coming to Sweden to escape dire straits. You are so naive if you don't get that.
Do you spew this nonsense on your facebook page, too?
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Sweden has "always" had an integration problem, it's nothing new. It's probably more the fault of the Swedish way of doing it, rather than the amount of refugees. Malm� was a violent shithole before this refugee wave, assuming that there must be something really fucked in the Swedish way of (not) integrating refugees. Norway and Denmark isn't this bad, and in your own words we are pretty much the same culture, so how can Sweden fix their issue? Cause these refugees aren't going away any time soon. FYI I grew up in a neighborhood with 34% foreigners, majority of them were Africans, before you school me on how bad it is to grow up among people who do not share your cultural values.
I dont know why Sweden is more fucked then Norway and Denmark . Just tonight news in Sweden
3 people stabbed in Goteborg
1 Woman was stabbed by a unknown man in Orebro
2 Women were jumped in 2 separate cases and beaten up
4 cars set on fire ( this goes hand in hand with a spree of car fires all around the country , 4 people arrested for it in Malmo )
30 people in a big fight with swords and baseball bats in helsingborg
5 atleast involved in a school stabbing incident in Malmo
You sure Sweden isnt worse then Helmand Province or Raqqa Essal ?
Expand Quote
You simply can't talk about refugees as normal immigrants, that's not what a refugee is
I wasnt suggesting that either . It was a response to AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice saying I didnt want foreigners in Sweden .
Expand Quote
This is what makes a refugee. That Afghan who you would rather see come as a seasonal worker might not have a home to return to at the end of summer...
Im not saying he has to be a seasonal worker . Thats up to him . Sweden cant be held responsible for his home in Afghanistan when he comes here to work . What kind of crazy requirement is that ?
Im saying that if a chef from Afghanistan wants to come to work in Sweden , he can apply for a job , go for the job interview and if he gets it he can stay in Sweden and work as a chef . But He isnt allowed to have full time benefits while he is looking for a job . Or bring his hole family over to Sweden after one month in the country
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One thing is clear to me Monty, you lack empathy for refugees.
You might be right there . I understand what they are going through and I dont wish it upon them . But I can see the effect they have on the EU and Sweden and its not good . So I dont want us to deal with it
I forgot to add Im for Military intervention from USA , South America , EU and Nato , Russia and any other nation that wants to help . I do want to help them , but its by wiping out the talban , wiping out ISIS and keeping the refugees in countries close by so they can return home again
So Maybe saying I dont have empathy is wrong
you've said it on here before that you are only seeing ONE side of this and refusing to see all the refugees that aren't commiting rape, violence or freeloading.
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You sure Sweden isnt worse then Helmand Province or Raqqa Essal ?
LOL! You are hiting new levels of person here.
I guess its true , its much harder for people to read sarcasm over the internet . Even when comparing a top 10 country of the world with a shitty country like Iraq
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If a Afghan wanted to come to Sweden and look for a job for 3 months Im all for it . But if he doesnt get a job he has to leave . And he shouldnt be allowed benefits when he is here those 3 months
Ive also said I myself have gone to different countries and gotten a job there . But yes I was not on benefits and I did have a job within 2 weeks of being in the new country . I was a minority in Singapore .
In no way are these two situations comparable to each other. You moving to Singapore to work isn't exactly the same thing as an Afghan coming to Sweden to escape dire straits. You are so naive if you don't get that.
Ive said more then 2 times now it was a example of me not being concerned about your skin color or race coming to Sweden . Switch it to a Japanese chef , or Canada if that makes you more happy
And Afghanistan is not that bad off as some of you are making it out . Sure its not Sweden , But I have friends with afghan background who vacation in Afghanistan once a year .
Expand Quote
So Maybe saying I dont have empathy is wrong
you've said it on here before that you are only seeing ONE side of this and refusing to see all the refugees that aren't commiting rape, violence or freeloading.
I believe they should stay in Syria or Close to syria and we should help them with food , water , shelter and the military . I dont think its worth taking them here and having a certain % of the population murderd , raped , sexually assaulted and victimized
How many years will they be on benefits ? how many years will they be in Sweden or the EU ? What makes you guys think the will go back home when the war is over ?
And its been brought up multiple times , the refugees are not the majority from Syria . Its Iraq , Somalia , Morocco , Libya , Algeria , the balkans and alot of other countries who have no business claiming to be refugees
The majority is economical reasons for their "refugee" status and only want benefits
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You sure Sweden isnt worse then Helmand Province or Raqqa Essal ?
As for working; In Norway, asylum seekers (including refugees) aren't allowed to work until they have been granted asylum (which can take as much as 5+ years to figure out). I think this is fucked and I believe it's the major root cause for a lot of issues. Basically they sit at the center all day with not a fucking thing to do and without interacting with society. A lot of them turn to drug dealing, cause that's pretty much the only way you can make money. Is it the same in Sweden? Maybe we should give them some skateboards or something...
Let's just put it like this; You have to deal with it. Sending them home isn't an option until you can guarantee that they won't be ISIS sex slaves, killed by Assad or beheaded by the Taliban. This is not some easy solve that Europe can just pull out of their asses.
^
@monty
nothing you say is going to undo the current situation. your total lack of empathy and perspective makes it painfully obvious you've never left your imaginary safety bubble - white-on-white crime here will always dwarf immigrant crime statistics. To say you come across like an old, panicked racist is being kind. Sweden's demographics are probably different now than you remember them growing up, get over it. This is a far more complex situation than you are equipped to discuss.
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And its been brought up multiple times , the refugees are not the majority from Syria . Its Iraq , Somalia , Morocco , Libya , Algeria , the balkans and alot of other countries who have no business claiming to be refugees
The majority is economical reasons for their "refugee" status and only want benefits
*yawn*
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34131911)
(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/8CF7/production/_88578063_chart_top10_origins_of_asylum_seekers_2015.jpg)
The conflict in Syria continues to be by far the biggest driver of migration. But the ongoing violence in Afghanistan and Iraq, abuses in Eritrea, as well as poverty in Kosovo, are also leading people to look for new lives elsewhere.
But who cares about statistics when you can get brainwashed by the DM and other tabloids. Or perhaps it's just easier to understand their oversimplified fear mongering.
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pyrex vision
nothing you say is going to undo the current situation
Sure there is , We can let out politicians know that we dont like it and Vote . Seems like most of the EU agree and
you can see that in the way people vote and protest
your total lack of empathy and perspective makes it painfully obvious you've never left your imaginary safety bubble
What does that even mean ? How do I leave my imaginary safety bubble . Serius question ,tell me how
white-on-white crime here will always dwarf immigrant crime statistics.
White on White has nothing to do with it . However theres many points that say refugee / immigrant crime is miss represented in crime statistics . Dwarfing the born in country crime
Sweden's demographics are probably different now than you remember them growing up, get over it. This is a far more complex situation than you are equipped to discuss.
Yes it has changed .What do you mean get over it ? it is not that complicated , and Ive been discussing it for 16 pages now
Alan
Oh snapp Alan is back ! Hey help me out with some math here Alan !
Whats 170 + 120 + 70 + 60 + 40 + 30 + 20 +20 + 15
Im going to guess its 545 . 545 seems more then 360 right ? Lets use a Apple example to make this easier for us
If there was 905 apples and You gave Monty 545 and Alan 360 Apples Who got the majority of the apples ?
Syria 360
Afghanistan 170
Iraq 120
Kosovo 70
Albania 60
Pakistan 40
Eritrea 30
NIgeria 20
Iran 20
Ukrain 15
Welcome back to the thread Alan , dont let the door hit you on your way out
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You could read any single page of this thread and you would have read the whole thing
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The conflict in Syria continues to be by far the biggest driver of migration. But the ongoing violence in Afghanistan and Iraq, abuses in Eritrea, as well as poverty in Kosovo, are also leading people to look for new lives elsewhere.
So the top three countries on that list are war zones, with Eritrea, Ukraine, and Nigeria (Boko Haram ring a bell?) also near the top. Yet Monty thinks there is no reason for them to leave their country and come to the EU.
Lest we forget:
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion .
Wait, I have a story that will definitely warm your heart.
http://www.sarajevotimes.com/bosnian-refugee-became-mayor-in-sweden/ (http://www.sarajevotimes.com/bosnian-refugee-became-mayor-in-sweden/)
In the same refugee camp where he stayed with his family, he is welcoming and helping new refugees. Family from Syria lives now at number 110. They also share the room with other refugees.
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Alan , you quoted me on
And its been brought up multiple times , the refugees are not the majority from Syria . Its Iraq , Somalia , Morocco , Libya , Algeria , the balkans and alot of other countries who have no business claiming to be refugees
You tried to show that most refugees were syrians . You know you fucked up , stop trying to weasel your way out of it
So the top three countries on that list are war zones, with Eritrea, Ukraine, and Nigeria (Boko Haram ring a bell?) also near the top. Yet Monty thinks there is no reason for them to leave their country and come to the EU.
Is Ukraine a war zone ? Nigeria ? Eritrea ? Somalia ? Iraq ? Afghanistan ? what defines a war zone ? or conflict Zone ?
Heres a article for you. Only 11 countries in the world free of conflict
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/world-peace-these-are-the-only-11-countries-in-the-world-that-are-actually-free-from-conflict-9669623.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/world-peace-these-are-the-only-11-countries-in-the-world-that-are-actually-free-from-conflict-9669623.html)
and here is http://www.cfr.org/ (http://www.cfr.org/) . Check the world map of all conflicts
Is Afghanistan at war ? with who ? The Taliban and ISIS ? They have a new democratic elected President and they have a new army with equipment and training from the coalition . Coalition and EU / NATO troops are still there to train and help out along with special Forces from the coalition
Is the current conflict worse then the drug wars in mexico ? or Columbia ? Should the EU start taking refugees from Mexico and Columbia ?
War might break out between north Korea and south Korea . Are we now going to take refugees from those countries ?
there is constant conflicts between India and Pakistan . How many million are we supposed to take in from there ?
What about turkey ? there conflict everyday there . Terrorist activity . Are we no supposed to take in all of turkey ?
If the EU has to take in everybody from countries with conflicts then there would be billions refugees in the EU
Wait, I have a story that will definitely warm your heart.
Heres a story that over 60 refugees in connection to the townwhere Ilko Corkovic is mayor in have taken out in protest on the town square protesting that the food , shelter and other things are inhumane and demand more help
https://asylkaos.wordpress.com/tag/ilko-corkovic/ (https://asylkaos.wordpress.com/tag/ilko-corkovic/)
You are such a weasel Alan . You cant even admit when you are wrong . I didnt post that graph , you did .
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EU and UN recognize Afghans, Iraqis and Syrians as war refugees person. Its all over the news.
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EU and UN recognize Afghans, Iraqis and Syrians as war refugees person. Its all over the news.
Im going to need a link to a UN / EU official site that confirms this . Preferable a list of all nations that the EU / UN lists as eligible " war refugees"
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No, I tried to show that most of the refugees are fleeing for their lives, because you think only Syrians could maybe, in some circumstances be considered refugees. Only a sheltered simpleton like yourself could think that that is the only country where legitimate refugees could come from. So yes, the majority of the asylum seekers are from unsafe countries.
Here is another quite simple statistic, showing the positive decision rates of asylum applications in the EU in the early 2015.
https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/atlas_njvocs6l2x-3.png?w=640 (https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/atlas_njvocs6l2x-3.png?w=640)
This shows that host countries deem these countries of origin to be unsafe, the refugees' applications legitimate and their fear real. The data is from Eurostat, not some shitty racist website called Asyl Kaos.
See the attachment for a very simple explanation and a list of safe countries of origin, published by the European Commission. You might understand it.
And here is the list of countries Canada deems safe, and it is quite short.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/reform-safe.asp (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/reform-safe.asp)
And to answer your stupid attempt at argumentation, asylum decisions are made on a case to case basis, so a Turk from Istanbul would probably be denied asylum, while a Kurd from the east of the country would probably be granted asylum.
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion .
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No, I tried to show that most of the refugees are fleeing for their lives,
Hey weasel , I admit when Im wrong . But it seems you dont , You fucked up just admit it . EVERYBODY can see it . You quoted me on that Syrians are not the majority and you fucked up . Nothing wrong with admitting you are wrong man . everybody makes mistakes
Yeah those poor Iraqi fleeing for their lives
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12154665/iraqi-refugees-leave-finland-return-home.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/12154665/iraqi-refugees-leave-finland-return-home.html)
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/finland-thousands-iraqi-migrants-return-home-voluntarily-after-struggling-adapt-new-life-1543709 (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/finland-thousands-iraqi-migrants-return-home-voluntarily-after-struggling-adapt-new-life-1543709)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/world/middleeast/europe-migrant-crisis-reverse-migration.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/world/middleeast/europe-migrant-crisis-reverse-migration.html?_r=0)
And here is the list of countries Canada deems safe, and it is quite short.
So that lists proves nothing . The Swedish government deems Israel to be on the unsafe list . And Ive had AMAZING holidays there . Tel aviv is great Jerusalem is amazing . Tel Aviv had nice skate parks , great clubs , beautiful women and great restaurants
Canada lists Mexico on the safe list . What about Juarez ? You are telling me the Canadian government recommends people to go there ?
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion
I already told you I am a high school graduate , you need to adjust the post . Ill stick to " Im not the smartest guy " I wanna see people on SLAP who claim to be the smartest in the world
And you never answered why me not taking spanish and math classes has anything to do with the discussion about refugees entering the EU
And where is that follow up about that amazing swedish mayor you posted as a example ? Did the refugees complaining about inhumane living conditions kinda counter his hero status ?
Its a petty argument from a WEASEL
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And you never answered why me not taking spanish and math classes has anything to do with the discussion about refugees entering the EU
You yourself warned other posters about your lack of intelligence and education as handicap in participating in the discussion, no one asked you to do that. And then you went on to support that claim with your other posts in this thread.
EVERYBODY can see it .
Oh, the irony.
So that lists proves nothing
It proves that a number of governments find the refugees' countries of origin unsafe, and are giving them asylum based on that fact. Just because you're racist and don't like these policies does not make them any less real. Besides, that is exactly what you asked for here:
Im going to need a link to a UN / EU official site that confirms this . Preferable a list of all nations that the EU / UN lists as eligible " war refugees"
Granted, the list in my attachment isn't worded exactly like that, but then the European Commission probably didn't have a semi-literate high school drop out write the document.
And where is that follow up about that amazing swedish mayor you posted as a example ? Did the refugees complaining about inhumane living conditions kinda counter his hero status ?
I'm sorry, I am not clicking a link to a racist website.
I bet Palestinians are stoked on your holiday exploits.
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You yourself warned other posters about your lack of intelligence and education as handicap in participating in the discussion, no one asked you to do that. And then you went on to support that claim with your other posts in this thread.
Saying you are not the smartest person / smartest person in the world does not mean you are not smart / stupid . Its simply stating that there are many smarter people . It was a statement to be humble and be friendly and ask for a explanation
Are you the smartest person ? what % are you Alan ? 10% of the world ? After posting that Graph before Id question if you took math since simple addition of numbers proved Syrian were NOT the majority
Spanish and Advanced math has no relevance in a discussion about the refugee situation
You keep brining up facts that Im not the smartest , That Im a highschool drop out , That Im racist and facist . Thats the worst strategy in a debate or discussion Ive seen in a long time . Its not even on topic
Only worse is the threats of violence and rape threats from Tufty .
It proves that a number of governments find the refugees' countries of origin unsafe, and are giving them asylum based on that fact. Just because you're racist and don't like these policies does not make them any less real
So the EU needs to take refugees from every country the Canadian government deems unsafe ? The link to the guardian showed there was only about 11 countries deemed safe
Is Canada taking in refugees from all the countries that they dont deem safe ?
The whole world needs to be refugees and come to the EU then
, the list in my attachment isn't worded exactly like that, but then the European Commission probably didn't have a semi-literate high school drop out write the document.
You are right nowhere in that document does it state that
EU and UN recognize Afghans, Iraqis and Syrians as war refugees person. Its all over the news.
I still need that official list from the EU and UN of countries recognized as official War Refugees
Yet again you try to bring up my education ... WEASEL
I'm sorry, I am not clicking a link to a racist website.
what makes it racist ?why would you assume its racist when you wont even click it ?
bet Palestinians are stoked on your holiday exploits.
You know I dont really care about what Palestinians thing of my holiday destinations
Everybody should notice Alan totally ignoring the 3 news articles about Iraqis returning home to Iraq . I thought they were fleeing for their lives Alan ? why would they jump on a flight and go back to Iraq and face certain death ?
Or did you not reply cause the NY Times is now a racist media outlet ?
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Monty: This is for Canada: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/welcome/index.asp?wbdisable=true (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/welcome/index.asp?wbdisable=true)
(that's a government site in case you didn't see that)
Before you go on bitching about 30k ain't nothing compared to 300k, you're right. But it also way easier to travel by land without any papers than it is to fly across the Atlantic ocean. These people can't just get a visitor visa and fill out an ETA online and fly here.. Just in case you don't bother looking at that site, most of these are currently in Lebanon and Jordan in refugee camps- because it's too dangerous to hang out in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan or any other country.
The way you argue about conflict zones and warzones make it so fucking clear that you have 0 empathy and that you indeed live inside of a pink bubble. What that means is that you have a real hard time visioning what it's like in the places where these refugees come from, and what they have experienced. Just because you have 1 friend who vacations in Afghanistan doesn't change the fact that the country has been fucked since the early 80s with conflicts and war. Just because they have an elected President doesn't change anything (and it just makes it clear that you have 0 idea of what Afghanistan is like)...
The reason why you are like this is most likely because you are because you grew up in Sweden where things like absolute poverty and war doesn't exist, which is what makes you entitled, just like the rest of us who grew up in modern times in Scandinavia. Only difference is that some of us have empathy which is why we have different stances on this whole mess and accept that refugees need our help, often in our countries. We already tried the war-route, we tried the advisory-route and it just doesn't fucking fix anything.
I'd go as far as saying that this article explains your personality (without having met you, and it's just my assumption based on how you write here): https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201201/lack-empathy-the-most-telling-narcissistic-trait (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201201/lack-empathy-the-most-telling-narcissistic-trait)
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essal
Before you go on bitching about 30k ain't nothing compared to 300k, you're right.
Canada can take as little or as much refugees as they want . I got family in Canada but I cant say Im connected to Canada in a way where I should dictate how many refugees they should take on
The way you argue about conflict zones and warzones make it so fucking clear that you have 0 empathy and that you indeed live inside of a pink bubble. What that means is that you have a real hard time visioning what it's like in the places where these refugees come from, and what they have experienced
Oh and the rest of SLAP who havent lived in a war zone can ? . Im sure we have some guys who have , and some ex / current soldiers who can . But lets not lecture me on how I cant imagine their situation when you can not do it either
Just because you have 1 friend who vacations in Afghanistan doesn't change the fact that the country has been fucked since the early 80s with conflicts and war. Just because they have an elected President doesn't change anything (and it just makes it clear that you have 0 idea of what Afghanistan is like)...
I prob know alot more about Afghanistan since Ive had a close friend who lived there , I read books about it and watched countless documentaries . The fact is its a shit country , and its been a shit country since the days of Alexander the great . It might always be a shit
country .
But there are over 30 Million people living in Afghanistan How many should we take into europe ? Even if we wiped out ISIS and the taliban you still have warlords , you still have criminals and you still have new terrorist cells forming
Look at Honduras . 8 Million people and it has the highest murder rate in the world . Poverty is also high . How is Honduras different from
Afghanistan ? just switch the taliban / ISIS to drug gangs . How many from Honduras should leave and come to Europe ?
With all the conflicts and War in the world . Like the news article said maybe only 11 countries right now have no conflict going on
That means Millions , Billions of people are effected by conflicts . How many billion should Europe take in ?
Look at Africa , All the wars and conflicts they have had over the years . How many % of the population of Africa should the EU take in ?
Its obvius they have wars , refugees , child soldiers , poverty , starvation . So give me a number of how many of the millions of suffering
in Africa the EU and Sweden should take in
Nigeria has almost 200 million people living there . Countless civil wars , war lords , poverty . Ill just assume people are starving and dont have jobs and money . They also have problems with Muslim terror groups
Id say 100% of the people would have a better life in the EU or lets say Canada . How many should we take ?
Only difference is that some of us have empathy which is why we have different stances on this whole mess and accept that refugees need our help, often in our countries. We already tried the war-route, we tried the advisory-route and it just doesn't fucking fix anything.
The only difference is that I look at the numbers , the money , the housing , the job market , the education . While most you guys keep saying that we have to save them .
I say we have to limit the numbers because of the money , the housing , the job market , the education and integration And you guys call me Racist , Fascist , Nazi and many other things
Im looking at things objectively . Im looking at it as a boat that only has room for 50 people . and there are 1000s in the water . It would be great if we could save all , But the boat that is the EU is already sinking . I understand why you want to save all of them
But somebody has to be the realist and tell you we cant save them all
I dont understand the logic behind that because I want to help them in Syria instead of in Europe that Im a narcissist ?
I think its even weirder that all of you guys are just saying to let them come without not looking at the numbers . How many homes
do we need ? , how much money will it cost? , where will they go to school ? , how much is it costing our healthcare ? , where will all these
people work ? , when will they return home? .
And one of the most important question Who are these people ?
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Monte, just let it go.
You live there and i trust your word.
But you dont have to defend yourself constantly.
Its not worth it.
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The problem is that Monty's attempts at trolling are not dissimilar to his real views. I mean, trolling is usually dumb, but when dumb people do it. Oh, boy...
On topic, for perspective:
(http://i.imgur.com/WkVLkyh.jpg)
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Wow Alan , more propaganda and fake statistics
Over one million sea arrivals reach Europe in 2015
http://www.unhcr.org/5683d0b56.html (http://www.unhcr.org/5683d0b56.html)
Thats just 2015 , Sweden alone took in about 200 000 in 2015 and as for germany
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/08/germany-on-course-to-accept-one-million-refugees-in-2015 (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/08/germany-on-course-to-accept-one-million-refugees-in-2015)
Just Sweden and Germany have taken together more then 1 million Refugees . Now add up 2016 and every damn year before that .
Theres also a huge difference in being a refugee in Lebanon and Sweden . In Sweden you get benefits , housing , food , work programs , free school and tons of other things to make you adjust and try to integrate you into sweden . What do you get in Lebanon ? I can guarantee you its not even close to how you get treated like in sweden
Seems super smart Alan has a problem with math . I have a skype account if you want to pay me for lessons
Did you finish high school ? posting random JPGs , where is the source on that JPG ?? did you draw it yourself ?
You complain that my news sites are biased and racist , yet " http://i.imgur.com/WkVLkyh.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/WkVLkyh.jpg) " wtf kind of source is that
Atleast my sources are real . Get back to me about the Skype math lessons , first one is free
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just a little heads up out of germany(we took so many refugees people are like umad?)
-apparently, a syrian refugee is opening up a dinner place next to my work!
"tehy took urr juuuuuuuhhbz!!11!"
-more muslim looking beggars(but it's hard to say, i mean there's a grandma sitting on every corner over here so...)
-families with lots of baggage and no helpful language skills lost in public transportation COULD be syrians?
-a lot of the, let's say mixed germans i work along with are actually not for taking in all the
refugees, despite them sometimes being offsprings of refugees themselves. they also mostly say
it's still better to take them up then to send them back to die, tho.
-the new far right party in germany, afd, got a lot of votes in sundays landeswahlen(state elections).
it's ridiculuous since not only they cater to the poor, if the working class would read their program, they might(?)
see that they will get screwed over by their flat-tax proposition. also, some of these nutcases talk openly
about a dark haired invasion and their serious fear that blonde germans will die out in 50 years.
this concerns me, as a brunette i enjoy all colors of hair with almost equal love, hate to see the blondes go, really hope
they get a grip on that gene for future creation of blonde prototypes.
-i haven't seen any rapy groups of men yet. i've seen a weird couple on the bus where the male fits the description
and was super pushy, but his hippie girlfriend was actually digging his groping a lot, it was weird...
this brought up a personal dilemma. the anti-racist in me resents the idea that this dude could be a refugee, the anti-sexist
me thinks he's a disgusting groper. the cynical me thinks fuck them both, fuck her for enjoying that pitiful shit and fuck her
disgusting boyfriend asshole.
-living in a pretty large city that took a lot of refugees, i must come to think that most refugees are still in camps, or they blend in rather well.
but again there have been lots of muslims here for years without much trouble(except for the alleged 9/11 hijackers, one of them was working part time in this falafel place near my place. falafel's actually excellent there, really heard about the dude working there afterwards).
so basically from my perspective nothing really changed. i live in a big city, i see crazy shit going down. sometimes the people involved look like this, act like that... it's been like this since i can think. but i know the knitty gritty part goes down in other places, in camps
and gym halls where people of different backgrounds and beliefs are seperated by fences and such, it goes down in greece and turkey. i'm actually not affected by this, at all, on a personal level.
if anything the government does a pretty good job of keeping things as normal as possible and despite the gain in votes for the afd the elections also showed that the majority is actually against anything afd would do, like shooting illegal immigrants at the border. a major problem seems to be that the government doesnt want to make any debt at this point, although it seems inevitable.
no matter if the refugees that are already here will be flown out of the country at some point in the future, or if we close borders completely, all of this will cost money that could be spend on a emergency program that contains of not only finding a (temporary) housing solution, but primarily education opportunities for the children.
one of the most important parts is that the kids get occupied and access to education. if they stay here for longer without it and leave, this time in their lives was wasted and they are not much better equipped to solve their home countries problems. if they stay permanently, we have a generation of children and youths that skipped school a few years at worst and are hardly educated enough to find work later on. integrating the kids first and foremost is also the fastest way to accomodate future generations to our cool western lifestyles.
of course, this is really difficult to achieve at this point. a large number of refugees is still moving entering mainland or moving about. every country that closes its borders actually creates a "problem" for the country next to it because it has to deal with the refugees now. germany right now does a fine job of closing borders via its neighboring countries, so we don't actually have to. also, it has been discussed in this country for at least twenty years now that we need new laws concerning migration and to make a plan for integrating migrants with foreign cultural backgrounds. this was always opposed to by merkels party. it was actually the left that were pushing for laws concerning migration and to have education and housing in place in case something like this happened. conservatives have always denied that a mass migration like this can happen, but when it happens, it does apparently. because of this denial many countries are almost forced to act reactionary now instead of a more measured and practical approach. sure locking yourself in is practical too in a way but it doesnt solve
the problems or magically makes the war and the refugees go away.
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https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2016/03/07/imperialism-and-super-exploitation/
"Also, Smith stresses the suppression of international mobility of labour by the North in contributing to this, as we see only too well in the current migration crisis in Europe."
Well if TL;DR the multinationals have been profiting more and more on very cheap labour (below labour power) because of the abundance of workers in terrible condition in "emerging economies". If they try to immigrate to West (or North as it is mentioned in the article) they just spoil the plan of western multinational corporations as there will be a shortage of people to super-exploit. That's why immigrants are not encouraged to immigrate.
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I think this whole argument got out of hand a while ago. And I'm aware I've played a part in this. I think everyone should calm the fuck down a little bit (me included). Monty has his views. My own views are drastically different. But I think it's time to calm down again. We're all accusing Monty of racism all the time, which makes him defend himself ever more viciously and leads to sometimes outrageous comments. When you look at the first few pages, you can see that Monty's views aren't all that extreme actually (even though I personally don't agree with them). But they became ever more so in the course of this thread. It's a vicious cycle kind of some sort.
What I'm saying is this: Maybe it's not the best idea to call people out as quickly and as hard as possible over this issue. Especially not on the internet. And not on a skateboard forum either.
So sorry for some insults, Monty. I've read through your statistics and it's fair to say I've underestimated the extent of the problem Sweden has with sexual assault. I'm not sure inhowfar it's related to immigration, but nonetheless I stand corrected. That'll also be the last time I post in this thread. I'm so over this whole debate in general.
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https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2016/03/07/imperialism-and-super-exploitation/ (https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2016/03/07/imperialism-and-super-exploitation/)
"Also, Smith stresses the suppression of international mobility of labour by the North in contributing to this, as we see only too well in the current migration crisis in Europe."
Well if TL;DR the multinationals have been profiting more and more on very cheap labour (below labour power) because of the abundance of workers in terrible condition in "emerging economies". If they try to immigrate to West (or North as it is mentioned in the article) they just spoil the plan of western multinational corporations as there will be a shortage of people to super-exploit. That's why immigrants are not encouraged to immigrate.
I posted this link in this thread (or its twin) a few weeks ago. Worth repeating.
http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jan/29/hidden-child-labour-syrian-refugees-turkey-supplying-europe-fast-fashion (http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jan/29/hidden-child-labour-syrian-refugees-turkey-supplying-europe-fast-fashion)
Apologies if the story doesn't include foreigners stealing, raping, and invading Europe. I'm sure we'll be begging soon-to-be Nordic commandos to save our lives in the near future.
@AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice, as a German, you must know what comes with "concerned citizens," whose complaints seem innocent and reasonable enough at first...
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AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice
I know you wont post again in this thread but thanks for the olive branch . Ive always said one should be able to argue their point in a cool and calm fashion without name calling and threats . Seems Im one of the few in this thread that can do that . I dont hold grudges so no worries
We should be able to discuss things even if we dont agree with eachother , anyways Beer on me if I ever see you
I thought this thread was done again but surprise surprise Tufty bumped it again . I guess bumping threads on SLAP are more important then helping refugees . I mean tufty always wants to "look good" not actually be good
Alan
posted this link in this thread (or its twin) a few weeks ago. Worth repeating.
http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jan/29/hidden-child-labour-syrian-refugees-turkey-supplying-europe-fast-fashion (http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jan/29/hidden-child-labour-syrian-refugees-turkey-supplying-europe-fast-fashion)
Fun to see you post a link that is actually from a credible source . Its abit weird that when I use that source you call bull shit on it . But when it suits your cause its all good . Hey atleast this time your sources are not some weird tumbler page written by some 14 year old girl
Apologies if the story doesn't include foreigners stealing, raping, and invading Europe. I'm sure we'll be begging soon-to-be Nordic commandos to save our lives in the near future.
Thats fine , most articles about child labour in Turkey dont usualy spin off into a article about sexual violence in Sweden . But just check any other paper . You can find hundreds of articles about refugee crimes in any paper
And you lost me with your " Soon to be Nordic Commando " comment ? eh ??
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35854413 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35854413)
EU-Turkey deal comes into effect. In Greece refugees/immigrants are geting arrested and detained in the so-called hotspots, where it will be decided if they deserve refugee status. If they dont, they will be deported in Turkey, which is horrible as Turkey is not the most human rights friendly country.... There are rumours that people that are afraid that they cant get refugee status are hiding in forests and caves around greece searching for a safe passage....
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And you lost me with your� " Soon to be Nordic Commando " comment ?� eh ??
Could be wrong but I think he's referring to the K�mando, an on-the-go cabinet Ikea is coming out with. It's really easy to build so that when you encounter a pack of ravenous refugees, or anything else you don't like really, you can go back in the closet swiftly. Give it some time and the free market will solve everything.
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Migrants Attack 60 Minutes Crew In Sweden. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42jpuXJPk0w#)
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^ Journalists are actual human scum. Right off the bat "sweden is barely coping..." SWEDEN IS ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRIES ON EARTH!
Then the Aussie reporters take their cameras into an area where they know cameras aren't wanted, then proceed to get beaten up. They knowingly shoved their cameras in migrants faces so they could sell the story, fuckin HATE reporters man!
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Migrants Attack 60 Minutes Crew In Sweden. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42jpuXJPk0w#)
Oh my Ikea better hurry
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^ Journalists are actual human scum. Right off the bat "sweden is barely coping..." SWEDEN IS ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRIES ON EARTH!
Then the Aussie reporters take their cameras into an area where they know cameras aren't wanted, then proceed to get beaten up. They knowingly shoved their cameras in migrants faces so they could sell the story, fuckin HATE reporters man!
10/10 great troll, I knew it was the reporters fault for their own assault. There definitely should be public places where you shouldn't be able to walk without getting attacked.
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Walk? They took a camera crew to film the despair of migrants, excuse them for not liking it
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https://refugeetrail.wordpress.com/2016/03/25/refugees-pay-to-go-to-prison/
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http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/stulna-pass-hamnar-hos-is/ (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/sverige/stulna-pass-hamnar-hos-is/)
A quarter of a million Iraq and Syran Pass ports have gone missing and most likely in the hands of ISIS and AQ .'
Used by terrorist to come to the EU as "refugees"
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22260063.ab (http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article22260063.ab)
New murder at refugee center in Ljusne outside of Stockholm . 1 person stabbed to death and 3 more injured
Police stormed the refugee center and arrested 3 .
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/12/13/isil-passport-machine/77247660/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/12/13/isil-passport-machine/77247660/)
U.S. intelligence has determined that ISIL likely has the ability to produce fake Syrian passports, reports ABC News. The network cites a 17-page Homeland Security Investigations Intelligence Report that states ISIL probably has at its disposal both a passport-printing machine and blank passport books
As I said before , we have no idea who these "refugees" are or what country they come from . Basicly importing terror into the EU
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Basically we dont know who are you either. We may as well breeding terrorists in Europe, like the majority of terrorists that were recognized from Brussels and PAris.
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Basically we dont know who are you either. We may as well breeding terrorists in Europe, like the majority of terrorists that were recognized from Brussels and PAris.
lets deal with the terrorist inside the EU before we start importing more .
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https://www.rt.com/news/337480-gender-segregation-germany/ (https://www.rt.com/news/337480-gender-segregation-germany/)
i wonder why? maybe because hanz and franz are getting too frisky with the ladies? or maybe it's the crazy catholics finally releasing all that pent-up sexual aggression?
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one of the most important parts is that the kids get occupied and access to education. if they stay here for longer without it and leave, this time in their lives was wasted and they are not much better equipped to solve their home countries problems. if they stay permanently, we have a generation of children and youths that skipped school a few years at worst and are hardly educated enough to find work later on. integrating the kids first and foremost is also the fastest way to accomodate future generations to our cool western lifestyles.
This. Not to try and change topic but this one statement shows a huge difference in the mindset Europeans have in comparison to American's. No matter how much bad is going on you still realize the importance of educating your youth - wherever from - and not having education turn into something for a profit. The United States has an education system today that doesn’t teach the humanities. It’s treating people to become cogs in a machine – the type that would apparently think like a Donald Trump and vote for him. Our system is teaching people how to make a living, to embrace being cogs in a machine, but the way to make people citizens is with philosophy, literature, and critical thinking.
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Sure but there is already a shortage of teachers, so we sacrifice our children's education for theirs. Not to mention they cannot be taught by a woman as females get raped or ignored. Let us solve our own problems before throwing the ladies to the wolves for some Allah jugend.
Getting the hang of it, Monty 8)
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Sure but there is already a shortage of teachers, so we sacrifice our children's education for theirs. Not to mention they cannot be taught by a woman as females get raped or ignored. Let us solve our own problems before throwing the ladies to the wolves for some Allah jugend.
Getting the hang of it, Monty 8)
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/malmo/rekordmanga-lamnar-sina-jobb-i-malmo-stad/ (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/malmo/rekordmanga-lamnar-sina-jobb-i-malmo-stad/)
Ill translate some of it . Over 2000 public servants ( teachers , kindergarten teachers , police . malmo city workers / officals ) has quit in 2015
Malmo needs about 3000 new teachers and school workers for the following year . Just this year 2016 we need 1000 new kindergarten teachers . Homelessness is at a all time high and social benefits ( like paying rent money and unemployment ) is over a billion now and highest in the country ( Malmo is third biggest city in Sweden and biggest when it comes to immigrants )
Some of these people ( teachers . social workers , police ) also have about 50 % of their staff on sick leave . The job has cause too much stress and made the people sick .
Id also want to ask you guys what the reasonable amount of rape , murder and terror attacks you guys think is fair for bringing in these "refugees "
How many murders , rape and terror is acceptable for 100 000 "refugees" ?
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That's a tough one. So a billion, I assume crowns or is that in Syrian currency? Won't be long. Add to that the servants and teachers... I'd say about 3759 rapists? It's hard to say without exact data on the homeless. Don't post the answer yet, but tell me if I'm close.
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That's a tough one. So a billion, I assume crowns or is that in Syrian currency? Won't be long. Add to that the servants and teachers... I'd say about 3759 rapists? It's hard to say without exact data on the homeless. Don't post the answer yet, but tell me if I'm close.
most troubling about this whole thing is that its just a joke to you guys . I post link after link , source after source on how much money this will cost . on how teachers , doctors , police are not enough . How much money this will cost . How much escalated crimes like murder , rape , sexual assaults , violence .
And you guys joke about it , you just assume that the EU will be fine even though every nation in the EU is fighting with each other and the schengen is dead and the UK is on the verge of leaving . Countries are openly breaking EU laws about refugees and nothing is being done about it .
Many countries have a huge integration problem which leads to high unemployment , low education , high welfare costs and huge crime statistics . And your solution to this is to bring in more foreigners
The solution to a broken system is not to break it even more
Yet it is just a joke for you guys .
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look, the problem is: nobody wants to "import" more refugees. but you cant stop them from fleeing right now, unless you build a fortified wall all around their countries or the EU.
all that happens right now is that they get stuck in poor countries on the eastern border, piled up with both the countries, helpers and refugees completely overwhelmed and lost.
yes, it would be great to solve the problems in their countries to get rid of the reasons for them to leave and give them the chance of a normal life at home, but unless all this shit hits the fan even more in central europe (or the US), nobody is gonna help that situation.
tl,dr: no idea how to solve this, everything is fucked.
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Look at the richest Gulf states and see how many refugees they have taken in.
The answer is none, they give 0 fucks about their so called "brothers". Though the world can help out to an extent in housing refugees fleeing a civil conflict in Syria (a situation caused once again by Western imperialism, sticking their nose in Middle Eastern affairs), the very countries responsible for much of the conflict in regards to what's happening in Syria should also help out more. UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, none of them have welcomed refugees in.
Honestly, the best way to solve this issue isn't to house refugees in foreign countries, especially the west where it's harder for them to assimilate culturally. What every country should be doing is to send international aid to countries such as Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon and Iraq, to help them resettle in countries there that Syrians are most compatible with. Not only is Syria fucked because of the war, but now that so many are fleeing the country, Syria will crumble as it loses its population and vital workforce, most of those that flee are the young and wealthy, the sick, old and poor can't even leave Syria. If the world actually cared about Syrians and Syria, they would help them in the general region where the problem lies. Metaphorically, Syria right now is a busted water pipe, and every country is frantically holding buckets trying to catch the water in panic, when really we should be fixing the pipe instead. Help them there, then maybe the region of conflict may have a future. This whole "oh well we did our part because we took in this many refugees!" line of thinking is ignorant as fuck, it's just to satisfy a collective hive mind set of morals in thinking they are doing the right thing, when really, doing the right thing is to help solve the conflict and help them over in Syria or the countries that they are fleeing to most.
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Expand Quote
That's a tough one. So a billion, I assume crowns or is that in Syrian currency? Won't be long. Add to that the servants and teachers... I'd say about 3759 rapists? It's hard to say without exact data on the homeless. Don't post the answer yet, but tell me if I'm close.
most troubling about this whole thing is that its just a joke to you guys . I post link after link , source after source on how much money this will cost . on how teachers , doctors , police are not enough . How much money this will cost . How much escalated crimes like murder , rape , sexual assaults , violence .
And you guys joke about it , you just assume that the EU will be fine even though every nation in the EU is fighting with each other and the schengen is dead and the UK is on the verge of leaving . Countries are openly breaking EU laws about refugees and nothing is being done about it .
Many countries have a huge integration problem which leads to high unemployment , low education , high welfare costs and huge crime statistics . And your solution to this is to bring in more foreigners
The solution to a broken system is not to break it even more
Yet it is just a joke for you guys .
Yeah, your bitch-ass crying on Slap by posting shitty selective links is gonna solve the issue. Strange that everything you say is taken as a joke... I wonder why? Could it be because even people here don't give a shit about some high school drop-out "political opinions"?
Europe is full of idiots cashing in by using the oldest fucking trick in the book (blame the jews/immigrants). A for effort, though. Did not think you would last this long.
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Yeah, your bitch-ass crying on Slap by posting shitty selective links is gonna solve the issue. Strange that everything you say is taken as a joke... I wonder why? Could it be because even people here don't give a shit about some high school drop-out "political opinions"?
Europe is full of idiots cashing in by using the oldest fucking trick in the book (blame the jews/immigrants). A for effort, though. Did not think you would last this long.
You know its a pretty shitty way to debate the way you do . You lash out with lies , shitty arguments and things that make no sense . And when the person you address replies . You say " to argue with a psycho person like me," and ignore it all . I thought some school in russia or Sweden would have taught you better ways to debate
In what debate would a person not post selective links ? I have my opinion and Im trying to show my opinion . One would assume I would post links and sources that prove my point
A person trying to show the positive effects of medical marijuana or trying to legalize medical marijuana would not post negative sources and links to show the otherwise
What Jewish refugees during WW2 strapped bombs to themselves and blew up people and buildings in their new country ?
What Jewish refugees during WW2 took up guns and started shooting at concert goers ?
What Jewish refugees during WW2 Started sexually assaulting women in their host country by the thousands ? raping children in bath houses ?
While the Nazis were totally wrong about the Jews . You can clearly see a huge difference between the new ghettos springing up in the EU where there is high unemployment , high crime , low school results , the rise of Muslim extremists , ISIS , AQ , Terror attacks on countries that took in refugees to help them . The recent rise of sexual assaults and rapes
This is not propaganda , These are statistics from the government , and news stories you can see everyday in the biggest news media outlets
None of this was going on during WW2 with the Jews .
iKobrakai is himself lives in a Swedish ghetto where he hates everybody who lives there . He lives in a failed integration n experiment and wants to move out as soon as possible . He stares downs immigrants everyday and is ready to fight them at a moments notice . He even threatens them on SLAP ( which is kinda weird since they most likely dont post on SLAP ) .
These are his own words about the reality that he lives in . Which pretty much proves my point
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People like you would hate jews in Nazi Germany. People like you hate anyone the media tells them to. People like you are the humanity's plague. Well at least you stand for the majority. The rest of us are doomed.
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People like you would hate jews in Nazi Germany. People like you hate anyone the media tells them to. People like you are the humanity's plague. Well at least you stand for the majority. The rest of us are doomed.
The media today are mostly covering up the crimes of "refugees" and more likely to post "positive " news stories to shift the political views to support more "refugees" coming into the EU
The examples of not posting names , race , nationality and the descriptions of the person committing the crimes . Another example was the cover ups by media and police about the Swedish " We are STHLM " festival . 2 years in a row police and media said the festival had no serious incidents and later it came out that there were 100s of sexual assaults and rape
The hate for Jews in Nazi Germany were manufactured . Made up facts and fearmongering . All you have to do today is open any media outlet left or right and you can see countless terror attacks , sexual assaults , rapes , and other crimes
Id say you are the plague on humanity . You stand for communist values and hate for the West . You would have no problem with capitalism collapsing . You also blame everybody but yourself for Greece fall . Yet you betray all your values and decide to join capitalism .
You want to get a job in a system you hate . You blame business men for moving work away from Greece . Yet you do the same by trying to escape Greece and looking for a life in another country instead of trying to stay and improve Greece
See the difference between you and me is that I stand for my believes and dont compromise them . The things I say I back up with my actions and the way I live my life . You on the other hand are a traitor to your own believes . You act all high and mighty and say things you think you believe in . But in reality you stab your cause in the back and join the other side
You are a hypocrite , which is one of the worst things you can be in life . I think one of the reasons you come on SLAP and preach hate and
other bullshit is cause you hate yourself . I think you cant even look yourself in the mirror cause you hate yourself for betraying your political values . It must be hard getting out of bed in the morning when you have become what you hate
Here is a story about a the situation in the EU
[/quote]Murder of a man of peace: Muslim shopkeeper who wished his 'beloved Christian nation' a Happy Easter is stabbed 30 times by a FELLOW MUSLIM who sat laughing on his dying victim's chest
A newsagent was murdered by a fellow Muslim after he wished his Christian friends a peaceful Easter.
Asad Shah, who was stabbed up to 30 times at his shop, had praised both the life of Jesus and �his beloved Christian nation�. Left lying in a pool of blood, the 40-year-old died in hospital.
Police, who were questioning a 32-year-old suspect last night, said the killing was religiously motivated.[/quote]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3509367/Muslim-shopkeeper-stabbed-death-hours-posted-happy-Easter-message.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3509367/Muslim-shopkeeper-stabbed-death-hours-posted-happy-Easter-message.html)
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Dailymail told me to hate the refugees. I am a smart person
Well its easy to not compromise when your shitty beliefs are in accordance with the shitty world. However you are not something to admire you are just a shit in a shithole. At least I can see past the shithole, even if I have to put up with it.
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Monty, I know what I wrote, no need to repeat it. Yes, I hate the fuckers that were born here and can still barely build a sentence. Yes, stand in my way while smoking shitty weed = burst mouth. Yes, I hate the savages that refuse to adopt to simple concept as waiting in line. Yes, as soon as I can, I'm out of here, natural strive for better things. I show it and ready to fight for it.
What do you do for that great white cause of yours?
And this "A person trying to show the positive effects of medical marijuana or trying to legalize medical marijuana would not post negative sources and links to show the otherwise" is a great illustration of your level of stupid.
I have a link to prove my point: https://www.flashback.org/f13 (https://www.flashback.org/f13)
See nothing but retards? You just put yourself in that category. You are that fucking biased.
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Dailymail told me to hate the refugees. I am a smart person
Well its easy to not compromise when your shitty beliefs are in accordance with the shitty world. However you are not something to admire you are just a shit in a shithole. At least I can see past the shithole, even if I have to put up with it.
So far just in this thread Tufty has called me all kinds of insulting names . Threatened to rape me and physically assault me and now he is changing and falsifying quotes
Is that a Greek thing ? is this how the Greek school system is educating people ?
anyways if you missed my last post
People like you would hate jews in Nazi Germany. People like you hate anyone the media tells them to. People like you are the humanity's plague. Well at least you stand for the majority. The rest of us are doomed.
The media today are mostly covering up the crimes of "refugees" and more likely to post "positive " news stories to shift the political views to support more "refugees" coming into the EU
The examples of not posting names , race , nationality and the descriptions of the person committing the crimes . Another example was the cover ups by media and police about the Swedish " We are STHLM " festival . 2 years in a row police and media said the festival had no serious incidents and later it came out that there were 100s of sexual assaults and rape
The hate for Jews in Nazi Germany were manufactured . Made up facts and fearmongering . All you have to do today is open any media outlet left or right and you can see countless terror attacks , sexual assaults , rapes , and other crimes
Id say you are the plague on humanity . You stand for communist values and hate for the West . You would have no problem with capitalism collapsing . You also blame everybody but yourself for Greece fall . Yet you betray all your values and decide to join capitalism .
You want to get a job in a system you hate . You blame business men for moving work away from Greece . Yet you do the same by trying to escape Greece and looking for a life in another country instead of trying to stay and improve Greece
See the difference between you and me is that I stand for my believes and dont compromise them . The things I say I back up with my actions and the way I live my life . You on the other hand are a traitor to your own believes . You act all high and mighty and say things you think you believe in . But in reality you stab your cause in the back and join the other side
You are a hypocrite , which is one of the worst things you can be in life . I think one of the reasons you come on SLAP and preach hate and
other bullshit is cause you hate yourself . I think you cant even look yourself in the mirror cause you hate yourself for betraying your political values . It must be hard getting out of bed in the morning when you have become what you hate
Here is a story about a the situation in the EU
Murder of a man of peace: Muslim shopkeeper who wished his 'beloved Christian nation' a Happy Easter is stabbed 30 times by a FELLOW MUSLIM who sat laughing on his dying victim's chest
A newsagent was murdered by a fellow Muslim after he wished his Christian friends a peaceful Easter.
Asad Shah, who was stabbed up to 30 times at his shop, had praised both the life of Jesus and �his beloved Christian nation�. Left lying in a pool of blood, the 40-year-old died in hospital.
Police, who were questioning a 32-year-old suspect last night, said the killing was religiously motivated.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3509367/Muslim-shopkeeper-stabbed-death-hours-posted-happy-Easter-message.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3509367/Muslim-shopkeeper-stabbed-death-hours-posted-happy-Easter-message.html)
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Monty, I know what I wrote, no need to repeat it. Yes, I hate the fuckers that were born here and can still barely build a sentence. Yes, stand in my way while smoking shitty weed = burst mouth. Yes, I hate the savages that refuse to adopt to simple concept as waiting in line. Yes, as soon as I can, I'm out of here, natural strive for better things. I show it and ready to fight for it.
What do you do for that great white cause of yours?
And this "A person trying to show the positive effects of medical marijuana or trying to legalize medical marijuana would not post negative sources and links to show the otherwise" is a great illustration of your level of stupid.
I have a link to prove my point: https://www.flashback.org/f13 (https://www.flashback.org/f13)
See nothing but retards? You just put yourself in that category. You are that fucking biased.
So you post me a link to flashback which shows multiple threads about cannabis . What does that prove ? Thats not what I was asking for .
You need to post a link to somebody who is actively debating the positive effects of medical Marijuana while at the same time posting the negative effects of marijuana
And Im only biased because nobody in this thread have posted the positive things about accepting all these "refugees" into the EU
almost 20 pages and still not a single post about how taking in all these people will benefit us
You are right about me not really doing anything for my cause . In alot of ways I was born in the wrong country . If I was in the UK , USA , NZ , Australia , Poland , Germany or many other countries I probably would have been in the military at age 17 and out there doing something good
But yeah , besides voting , paying taxes and donating money to certain charities . I probably havent done much good in the world besides spreading happiness to people with food
Ill say Im currently "in training" for something where I could have a effect on things . But as I havent signed any papers or passed the tests yet I wont say what it is . I dont wanna claim something and then have to back track if I dont go ahead with it
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Monty, I know what I wrote, no need to repeat it. Yes, I hate the fuckers that were born here and can still barely build a sentence. Yes, stand in my way while smoking shitty weed = burst mouth. Yes, I hate the savages that refuse to adopt to simple concept as waiting in line. Yes, as soon as I can, I'm out of here, natural strive for better things. I show it and ready to fight for it.
What do you do for that great white cause of yours?
And this "A person trying to show the positive effects of medical marijuana or trying to legalize medical marijuana would not post negative sources and links to show the otherwise" is a great illustration of your level of stupid.
I have a link to prove my point: https://www.flashback.org/f13 (https://www.flashback.org/f13)
See nothing but retards? You just put yourself in that category. You are that fucking biased.
So you post me a link to flashback which shows multiple threads about cannabis . What does that prove ? Thats not what I was asking for .
You need to post a link to somebody who is actively debating the positive effects of medical Marijuana while at the same time posting the negative effects of marijuana
And Im only biased because nobody in this thread have posted the positive things about accepting all these "refugees" into the EU
almost 20 pages and still not a single post about how taking in all these people will benefit us
You are right about me not really doing anything for my cause . In alot of ways I was born in the wrong country . If I was in the UK , USA , NZ , Australia , Poland , Nazi Germany or many other countries I probably would have been in the military at age 17 and out there doing something good
But yeah , besides voting , paying taxes and donating money to certain charities . I probably havent done much good in the world besides spreading happiness to people with food
Ill say Im currently "in training" for something where I could have a effect on things . But as I havent signed any papers or passed the tests yet I wont say what it is . I dont wanna claim something and then have to back track if I dont go ahead with it
Fixed that country for you. And damn, the military sure is out there "doing something good". Like in Iraq, when they found those WMD. Or a gazillion other examples. Nothing wrong with following some monkey's orders...
Ever stopped and thought to yourself "Hmmm, why won't even the idiots on Slap buy into my bullshit?, I mean I can't be the idiot here.."
Wow, taxes, donations, voting and cooking. Give this man a medal! He's doing his job, votes and pays them taxes!
Good that you don't claim anything, you will probably quit Legion etrangere just like you quit being a feminist.
Anyway, go back to enlightining Slap with your fair and balanced news. You and Bill O'Reilly haveso much in common.
Bernie Sanders vs Bill O'Reilly - A fair and balanced interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbKkLz0F2BM#)
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Fixed that country for you. And damn, the military sure is out there "doing something good". Like in Iraq, when they found those WMD. Or a gazillion other examples. Nothing wrong with following some monkey's orders...
Claiming Germany is currently a Nazi country is quite stupid . Some Germans want to join into the discussion and answer the claims ?
Much like you threatening to punch the immigrant youths hanging outside your building , war is a world scale of that . If you want something done you should be ready to fight for it .
Hitler wasnt stopped by petitions . Mussolini wasnt stopped by peace marches . Saddam Hussein wasnt stopped by sanctions . Israel isnt kept safe by flowers and peace songs . They have a excellent military who are villing to fight to keep Israel safe
ISIS and AQ isnt being defeated by sanctions , peace songs , peace talks , protests or anything ells close to that . They are being deafeted by bombing the shit out of them and troops on ground
Ever stopped and thought to yourself "Hmmm, why won't even the idiots on Slap buy into my bullshit?, I mean I can't be the idiot here.."
Why would I assume SLAP are idiots ? why would I think my own views are bullshit ? why would I think Im a idiot ?
Wow, taxes, donations, voting and cooking. Give this man a medal! He's doing his job, votes and pays them taxes!
This is so confusing . You call me out on not doing anything . I agree with you that Im not really doing anything . And then you make a sarcastic comment about me agreeing that Im not doing anything ? what !?
And calling out somebody for not doing anything while yourself are not doing something its pretty low
Good that you don't claim anything, you will probably quit Legion etrangere just like you quit being a feminist.
Im not sure about the Legion etrangere as I never have checked their rules but I would assume as its a Military unit / organisation , You can not just quit them as you can quit a political movement . Im sure they have contracts , unlike feminism
Anyway, go back to enlightining Slap with your fair and balanced news. You and Bill O'Reilly haveso much in common.
Ive said mulitple times that my views are not balanced , I have my political views set and post based on my views . Ifact Ive said this over 2 times to posts directed directly at you
Yet again you are "calling me out " on things I admit and have told you time and time again . My views are however fair because I post facts , sources and legitimate media sources
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Monty, I know what I wrote, no need to repeat it. Yes, I hate the fuckers that were born here and can still barely build a sentence. Yes, stand in my way while smoking shitty weed = burst mouth. Yes, I hate the savages that refuse to adopt to simple concept as waiting in line. Yes, as soon as I can, I'm out of here, natural strive for better things. I show it and ready to fight for it.
What do you do for that great white cause of yours?
And this "A person trying to show the positive effects of medical marijuana or trying to legalize medical marijuana would not post negative sources and links to show the otherwise" is a great illustration of your level of stupid.
I have a link to prove my point: https://www.flashback.org/f13 (https://www.flashback.org/f13)
See nothing but retards? You just put yourself in that category. You are that fucking biased.
So you post me a link to flashback which shows multiple threads about cannabis .� What does that prove ?� Thats not what I was asking for .
You need to post a link to somebody who is actively debating the positive effects of medical Marijuana while at the same time posting the negative effects of marijuana
And Im only biased because nobody in this thread have posted the positive things about accepting all these "refugees" into the EU
almost 20 pages and still not a single post about how taking in all these people will benefit us�
You are right about me not really doing anything for my cause . In alot of ways I was born in the wrong country . If I was in the UK , USA , NZ , Australia , Poland , Germany or many other countries I probably would have been in the military at age 17 and out there doing something good
But yeah , besides voting , paying taxes and donating money to certain charities . I probably havent done much good in the world besides spreading happiness to people with food
Ill say Im currently "in training" for something where I could have a effect on things . But as I havent signed any papers or passed the tests yet I wont say what it is . I dont wanna claim something and then have to back track if I dont go ahead with it
for sure, monty, you a real role model. if you're eager to "do something good" why not join the french foreign legion. then again there's probably too many north-african/arabic people in there for you to feel comfortable.
i imagine you playing microsoft flight simulator so you can apply for remote controlling drones so you can bomb housing and hospitals, then play the butthurt victim when these people flee the country or join the various terrorist groups out of a grudge against the bombings? then whine around how sweden is missing housing and hospitals for real swedes.
you're a cook, you could make a difference if you use your knowledge to come up with a plan how to feed all these people effectively for low cost and to cover basic nutritional needs. you could advocate that people don't throw away good food and take it to shelters instead if they don't consume it.
the reason not many people in this thread say that this is a super beneficial thing for europe is because most people have a more grounded view on it than you. most people arguing with you see the same problems, but your bias against refugees and basically anything that you perceive as sjw policy(any progressive view you don't agree on) makes you cherry pick the most gruesome stories. you act like that stuff happens everyday and that's not true. statistically, in germany there are far more attacks on refugees by locals than vice versa. the beneficial
part about this happening will only be clear after the fact, that means we will see it maybe two or three decades from now on, depending on how successful integration will be or it will be WWIII and this time it's the muslims instead of jews and whole europe instead of third reich.
also, that muslim-murder story, you focus on the psycho that killed the shop keeper. i don't give a fuck about religion and i think christianity and islam are stupid all the same, i mean it's the same basic religion with different prophets. yet i can see what the shopkeeper did was really cool. i don't understand why this seems to be an example for you of the dangers of islam. clearly the murderer is a psychopath that will spend hopefully most if not the rest of his life in jail. as much as you want it but fundamentalist psychos are not the norm amongst the muslim populace. the case is not a metaphor for violent islam wins over peaceful islam. if we would treat christianity the same way we treat islam,
millions of europeans should have renounced christianity back in 2012 when the most gruesome man in the world was christian fanatic joseph kony.
it didn't make people question their own faith that such a monster wages wars and kills hundreds of thousands in this day and age in the name of christianity. but the crazy deathcult that is isis is supposed to be the "real face" of islam, as told by, well, lots of people that never read the koran. i have never read that book either but i don't make assumptions about what it says. obviously most of the muslim world and most muslim leaders condemn violence and terror. the difference seems to be that in general their sincerity is questioned by islamophobes that claim to have a better understanding(i.e. cigarettebeer) of a faith and culture than the people living it itself. this kind of ignorance and arrogance will lead to more hostility in the long run imo. if some dipshit that can't barely handle a microwave came to your kitchen straight talking shit about how you handle your knives wrong you'd think that dude is a clown. to me all these non-muslims claiming to know about real islam are clowns.
and before you ask me what i have done: basically nothing, i have no practical skills and most my jobs were concerned with problem solving with clients and customers--->my job is thinking and talking. i basically have no medical skills, i suck at carpentry, i only speak two languages fluently and i'm only good at making money with my conversational skills. i also usually work 40-50hours a week. so yeah, i just gave away lots of stuff i don't use anymore, mostly clothes, an old cellphone, backpacks and such. then again i'm really more kind of apathetic to the situation in terms of how my views on the world have changed, because they have not. if i was asked if we should let millions of refugees in here i'd say depends, sounds dumb tho in general. well history apparently doesn't give a shit about what you or me thinks and because we can't stop it, we have to deal with it, preferably in a humane manner.
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Fixed that country for you. And damn, the military sure is out there "doing something good". Like in Iraq, when they found those WMD. Or a gazillion other examples. Nothing wrong with following some monkey's orders...
Claiming Germany is currently a Nazi country is quite stupid . Some Germans want to join into the discussion and answer the claims ?
Much like you threatening to punch the immigrant youths hanging outside your building , war is a world scale of that . If you want something done you should be ready to fight for it .
Hitler wasnt stopped by petitions . Mussolini wasnt stopped by peace marches . Saddam Hussein wasnt stopped by sanctions . Israel isnt kept safe by flowers and peace songs . They have a excellent military who are villing to fight to keep Israel safe
ISIS and AQ isnt being defeated by sanctions , peace songs , peace talks , protests or anything ells close to that . They are being deafeted by bombing the shit out of them and troops on ground
Expand Quote
Ever stopped and thought to yourself "Hmmm, why won't even the idiots on Slap buy into my bullshit?, I mean I can't be the idiot here.."
Why would I assume SLAP are idiots ? why would I think my own views are bullshit ? why would I think Im a idiot ?
Expand Quote
Wow, taxes, donations, voting and cooking. Give this man a medal! He's doing his job, votes and pays them taxes!
This is so confusing . You call me out on not doing anything . I agree with you that Im not really doing anything . And then you make a sarcastic comment about me agreeing that Im not doing anything ? what !?
And calling out somebody for not doing anything while yourself are not doing something its pretty low
Expand Quote
Good that you don't claim anything, you will probably quit Legion etrangere just like you quit being a feminist.
Im not sure about the Legion etrangere as I never have checked their rules but I would assume as its a Military unit / organisation , You can not just quit them as you can quit a political movement . Im sure they have contracts , unlike feminism
Expand Quote
Anyway, go back to enlightining Slap with your fair and balanced news. You and Bill O'Reilly haveso much in common.
Ive said mulitple times that my views are not balanced , I have my political views set and post based on my views . Ifact Ive said this over 2 times to posts directed directly at you
Yet again you are "calling me out " on things I admit and have told you time and time again . My views are however fair because I post facts , sources and legitimate media sources
ikobrakai never said germany is a nazi state, i take it he implied your views are more in line with nazi germany than any current country.
hitler was voted into power and actively supported, he then made the laws so he could smash any opposing force before they gain traction and numbers. he even cleansed his own ranks of people that he didn't trust:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Long_Knives)
about mussolini: he made his own march with his 30.000 blackshirts to claim power for his fascist party:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Rome)
saddam hussein was actively supported at first because he was not a fundamentalist muslim, us gave him weapons at first to use against now fundamentalist iran, after they lost control over iran and after the islamic revolution the perpetrated there to gain control turned out to be a big failure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war)
you're probably right about israel tho, although i don't know why they need all the nukes. nuking your neighboring countries doesnt really seem smart. the nukes are probably going on russia if shit hits the fan.
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for sure, monty, you a real role model.
When did I say anything about being a role model ? or wanting to be one .
if you're eager to "do something good" why not join the french foreign legion. then again there's probably too many north-african/arabic people in there for you to feel comfortable.
Why join the French foreign legion ? . France doesnt really follow the military direction of USA , NZ , AUS , UK , SWE or GER . Different operations , different language and different budget . Where is the French Foreign legion operation now ? I dont even know . Are they conducting any operations against ISIS now ?
Why would I have a problem with north African / Arabic people ? and what % of the French Foreign legion are north African / Arabic
Are the French foreign legion doing something good ? give me examples
i imagine you playing microsoft flight simulator so you can apply for remote controlling drones so you can bomb housing and hospitals,
Name one coalition country who is actively targeting civilian housing ( without there being a person of interest there ) and hospitals
then play the butthurt victim when these people flee the country or join the various terrorist groups out of a grudge against the bombings? then whine around how sweden is missing housing and hospitals for real swedes.
Kinda like you are playing the butthurt victim now ? Hamas in Palestine is not a democratical elected terrorist organisation that is attacking Israel ? The Taliban in Afghanistan are not dangerous and bomb schools , terrorizes the population in Afghanistan ? AQ is not a dangerous terror organisation ? ISIS is not a horrible terrorist organisation ?
We should just leave all these groups keep on keeping on ?
Afghanistan would never have been attacked by the USA if the taliban and AQ were not there
What did Belgium do to deserve the bombing from ISIS ? how many politicians or military personnel died in the attack ?
you're a cook, you could make a difference if you use your knowledge to come up with a plan how to feed all these people effectively for low cost and to cover basic nutritional needs. you could advocate that people don't throw away good food and take it to shelters instead if they don't consume it.
Im a chef , not a cook . Its true I could be involved in food programs for the "refugees " but my political views now is that they shouldnt even be here in the first place . And to be fair I havent really been working in places even close to that . I propose military intervention is the correct answer . So making some food is not the answer
the reason not many people in this thread say that this is a super beneficial thing for europe is because most people have a more grounded view on it than you. most people arguing with you see the same problems, but your bias against refugees and basically anything that you perceive as sjw policy(any progressive view you don't agree on) makes you cherry pick the most gruesome stories. you act like that stuff happens everyday and that's not true. statistically, in germany there are far more attacks on refugees by locals than vice versa. the beneficial
part about this happening will only be clear after the fact, that means we will see it maybe two or three decades from now on, depending on how successful integration will be or it will be WWIII and this time it's the muslims instead of jews and whole europe instead of third reich.
So they see the same problems as me but refuse to say them , instead decide to call me a nazi and racist . I acknowledge the problems and say them out , show them with sources , news articles and real views . Yet Im not the grounded one ?
Just cause gang rapes , murders and sexual assault dont happen every day doesnt make it less gruesome . These things happen and are a consequence of the people we are currently taking into Europe
Ive also said multiple times that the crimes of the far right . The hate marches , the assaults the burning of refugee centres further proves my point . These are all horrible illegal actions that show how much more and more people are against the refugee influx . The political far right is on the rise with all its horror . Yet you guys pretend things are fine
Integration of past and current refugees / immigrants is a huge failure , and the far right and extreme right is on the rise . Yet you guys suggest taking in more refugees into Europe ...
And I said in the past post . Jewish refugees during WW2 didnt shoot up concerts , blow themselves up at airports . Go into schools with children or playgrounds and gun them down and then blow themselves up
I dont remember seeing any news stories in history books about Jewish refugees doing mass sexual assaults on 1000s of women on new years nights or murdering fellow jews in refugee centres
yet i can see what the shopkeeper did was really cool. i don't understand why this seems to be an example for you of the dangers of islam. clearly the murderer is a psychopath that will spend hopefully most if not the rest of his life in jail. as much as you want it but fundamentalist psychos are not the norm amongst the muslim populace. the case is not a metaphor for violent islam wins over peaceful islam.
Its a example of a refugee / immigrant coming to Europe , maybe getting his shit together from maybe nothing to becoming a successfully business man , with a nice and happy family . integrating into the UK society . Breaking down religious berries and being murdered by a fellow Muslim
What makes the attacker a psychopath ? do you think he will get jail or going to a mental hospital . Are all ISIS , AQ and Taliban psychopaths ? or are they people with another view then alot of muslims ? with different political views ? Thousands of people living in Europe and North America have traveld to Syria and Iraq to join ISIS . Are you suggesting all these people broke out of the mental hospital to join ISIS ?
if we would treat christianity the same way we treat islam,
millions of europeans should have renounced christianity back in 2012 when the most gruesome man in the world was christian fanatic joseph kony.
We treat Christians much worse then we treat Muslims . We have has multiple trails against the church , exposing their crimes . We constantly make fun of Jesus , god and Christianity . Yet every time somebody makes fun of Islam or writes a book about Islam or draw a picture of Mohammed people need body guards . Things blow up or there are mass shootings
When was the last mass shooting or suicide bombing after a " Draw Jesus " contest ?
obviously most of the muslim world and most muslim leaders condemn violence and terror.
They do ? show me some examples of Muslim world leaders condemning violence . Im pretty sure I can show how the world leader in that country has laws that permit honor killings , whippings , death penalty and many other fucked up laws anti women and press freedom
the difference seems to be that in general their sincerity is questioned by islamophobes that claim to have a better understanding(i.e. cigarettebeer) of a faith and culture than the people living it itself. this kind of ignorance and arrogance will lead to more hostility in the long run imo. if some dipshit that can't barely handle a microwave came to your kitchen straight talking shit about how you handle your knives wrong you'd think that dude is a clown. to me all these non-muslims claiming to know about real islam are clowns.
In some ways you are right . Others wrong . There is a hypocrisy in religion today . Take Christians today most of them cherry pick parts from the new testament and the old testament to confirm their views and to fit their religion . Take hateful Christians today that say homosexuality is a sin based on the old testament yet ignore other parts of the old testament to fit their views like getting tattoos or wearing diffrent kinds of cloth together . Or slave owner ship
There are laws in the quran that say people who turn away from Islam should be killed . Now the question is who is the real muslim ? the one who obeys a stupid law like that ? or the one who thinks it crazy ?
If you want we can make a thread about all the crazy shit in the bible and quran . Ive read the bible 2 times so I know alot about it
ikobrakai never said germany is a nazi state, i take it he implied your views are more in line with nazi germany than any current country.
Well I said I would have joined the German army at 17 . So unless ikobrakai thinks I was born in 1925 , Nazi germany has no relevance
Your next points about Hussein , Mussolini and Hitler are way off . I said OUT of power . Not how they took power . What Im sayin is to defeat evil you have to fight it with violence . I think one of the few times a none violence campaign worked was Ghandi in India . And that only worked cause the UK didnt feel like killing him and his political party
So thats 1 out of billions incidents in the world through history . It would be nice if we can talk things through with ISIS and show them how what they are doing is wrong , but they wont change so we have to wipe them out
and before you ask me what i have done: basically nothing, i have no practical skills and most my jobs were concerned with problem solving with clients and customers--->my job is thinking and talking. i basically have no medical skills, i suck at carpentry, i only speak two languages fluently and i'm only good at making money with my conversational skills. i also usually work 40-50hours a week. so yeah, i just gave away lots of stuff i don't use anymore, mostly clothes, an old cellphone, backpacks and such. then again i'm really more kind of apathetic to the situation in terms of how my views on the world have changed, because they have not. if i was asked if we should let millions of refugees in here i'd say depends, sounds dumb tho in general. well history apparently doesn't give a shit about what you or me thinks and because we can't stop it, we have to deal with it, preferably in a humane manner.
Im not here to call you out frank , seems you donated and paid taxes . Thats enough for some people and more then others have done . I have no argument with you and Im not pissed off with you . We are just having a discussion . Im not one to call out people when they are not calling me out to start with
We do not have to take it though we can vote , pay taxes , donate , join charity organisations . become a politician , cop , military . There are things we can do if you care enough about it
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i really need to stop discussing this with you, it's so tiresome. so i try to keep it short:
your misconception: nobody thinks this is great. nobody wants more refugees produced through this war. nobody wants more refugees coming into places that already have enough problems. this thing is bigger tho than your personal opinion or mine. this happens REGARDLESS for fucks sake. you're preferred solution is to send them back and keep bombing the fuck out of the country. i get it now, you feel super entitled. you're entitled to interpret their scriptures, the same kind of clown i mentioned. i don't need to put up sources now to proof to you most muslims are peaceful despite believing in a bullshit religion. it's called common sense. most people that got brought up in the west follow that concept, most muslims, too. i don't need you explaining the dumbass bible to me, i went to a catholic church school, i was forced to read that shit until i finished school. imo the bible is stupid book, koran/quran is a stupid book. i appreciate cherry picking believers actually more because most of the time they do that to be able to live in modern times despite the scriptures telling them to hate certain groups of people or dictating them a weird lifestyle. they find a way to be faithful without violating our modern ways of treating each other.
everytime you say you want to do your part it's military, it's police. you're not interested in social progress, you'd rather regress as long as you're on top.
because you're on top. you are, compared to the average refugee:
-wealthy and economically safe
-far less in danger of harassment because of your skin color or language
-able to plan ahead of your current situation and make changes accordingly
-allowed to be an asshole openly, backed by free speech laws, without your assholery reflect negatively on the rest of the swedish populace.
asshole refugees have no chance whatsoever, and i think that's ok, but again you're privileged.
you are a very privileged person that wants harsh treatment for people who do not have the same amount of rights you have, not the same chance for a bright future(at least not with you standing in their way), no real home anymore, no real opportunity to become part of our economy. you are saying you'd be fine if they would pull it off, but you wouldn't even let them come to the point where they could have agency about it.
also all your comments about sjws say alot more about you and how you see yourself in the bigger picture. you feel threatened by immigrants, refugees, neo-feminists, as you said oppressed minorities always start to oppress others(majorities????how???) and you obvsly
feel very oppressed. in the other thread you said feminism is almost there, you even gave percentages as if you could measure social progress in numbers. you have not understood the most basic truth, that is people are of equal worth, sure they are not equal in themselves. like so many people before you twist the argument to your favor, then try to feed it back and claim to be feel oppressed because they are "almost there" which means for you it's enough.
females 90% equal iyo--->well that should do! 90 percent seems enough, no? so you were a 90% feminist, because now that they are almost done, you feel oppressed by pc libtards and feminazis because they are "almost" there while you admit there's 10% missing... im puzzled. you never wanted equal rights. just enough rights so they shut up and you don't have to discuss it. you were just an opportunist. it was a fine thing to be a feminist, now it's bad to be a feminist, because being feminist worked? now it's men's rights... i'm not butthurt about it, i'm annoyed about this view more than hurt, it's egocentric. egocentric people shouldn't mask their egocentrism as a form of social progress.
refugees in practice severly inequal in rights and prospects--->it's unfair, monty has to pay rent for nice flat, refugees get tents for free. that's like a 5000% improvement from being on the run, and they get it even for free. unfair!
sjw movement so powerful, yet you, the most reactionary, emotionally charged poster in this thread, have the most and the longest posts warning us of the dangers of uncontrolled influx of refugees, while in reality less and less are coming, many are even going back and you will probably still have your job, wife, flat, income, healthcare and never met one of them refugees face to face or suffer any of the atrocities perpetuated by uncivilized muslim refugees that you so love to bring up.
you have given zero constructive thoughts so far as to resolve this shit. you want them to go back, then bomb the fuck out the place you send them. you are "training" for something to make a difference, which to me sounds more like you took up another form of martial arts or maybe started going to the shooting range to feel more powerful if "shit gets real". this is more prepper mentality than helpfulness.
concerning your thoughts on the legion, here is how to join them. i couldn't find numbers for percentage of muslims among them, but religion doesnt matter and large parts of the legion are stationed in uae and still algeria i think.
http://foreignlegion.info/joining/ (http://foreignlegion.info/joining/)
a thousand other points come to mind, but it won't be of any use as long as you keep acting like the kid asking why? all the time in that louis ck sketch. you post tabloid media as evidence, then others pick your shit apart then you come and call everyone out on phrasing and shit, resulting in the most useless discussions.
and as much as i sometimes disagree with the vehemence of his posts but tufty is perfectly right that the war won't be muslims vs western world, the war to come will be poor vs rich and their armies. if that war happens, legion etrangere might be a good faction to be aligned with:
http://foreignlegion.info/traditions/ (http://foreignlegion.info/traditions/)
"Legio Patria Nostra. The Legion is our Fatherland. The third and newest motto of the French Foreign Legion. This motto is also the most frequent motto in the current Legion. The Legio Patria Nostra motto has an unknown origin. Initially, it was used by legionnaires within the 3rd Foreign Infantry Regiment. At a later date, it became the main motto of the whole Legion. Nowadays, the motto �Legio Patria Nostra� is the best known motto of the Foreign Legion."
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i really need to stop discussing this with you, it's so tiresome. so i try to keep it short:
Then why are you doing it ? I mean if you are not having fun debating this and its tiring why do it ? I mean unless you come out with some
super duper extreme fact you must know you are not going to change my mind about this
your misconception: nobody thinks this is great. nobody wants more refugees produced through this war. nobody wants more refugees coming into places that already have enough problems.
Well thats not true is it . Plenty of people want more refugees , arabs and muslims in Europe . ISIS , AQ , Taliban . Heck even the extremist Right in some ways want more of these people in the EU cause it furthers their cause . Every crime a refugee commits makes the extremist gain more members , how can you not see people want this war ?
this thing is bigger tho than your personal opinion or mine. this happens REGARDLESS for fucks sake.
Nope , Sweden is a good example of this . The majority of people in Sweden were for taking in the refugees . But as more and more came the majority changed its mind , and the government followed . The top 4 parties in Sweden changed their stance and closed up the border .
If we want change we can change it
i get it now, you feel super entitled. you're entitled to interpret their scriptures, the same kind of clown i mentioned
Im not sure how much interpretation you when the book says " stone this man " ? or " put this man to death " ? Or that "you are
allowed to beat a slave but not so much that he dies " Well you read the bible so you know its in there
You havent read the quran but you know its in there too
everytime you say you want to do your part it's military, it's police. you're not interested in social progress, you'd rather regress as long as you're on top.
True , police and military would help Sweden and Syria . Im for social progress but bringing in all these "refugees" are not progressing Sweden Socially . This money we are spending on them could have been put to help the ghettos , develop jobs , improve school and colleges . Improve healthcare
You say Im against social progress . I want to spend it on Sweden And the EU , you want to spend it on refugees . Who exactly is against social progress ?
And you Are right I want Sweden and the EU to top all lists of education , healthcare , science , human rights and everything ells positive . Whats wrong with that ?
you are a very privileged person that wants harsh treatment for people who do not have the same amount of rights you have, not the same chance for a bright future(at least not with you standing in their way), no real home anymore, no real opportunity to become part of our economy. you are saying you'd be fine if they would pull it off, but you wouldn't even let them come to the point where they could have agency about it.
what ?
also all your comments about sjws say alot more about you and how you see yourself in the bigger picture. you feel threatened by immigrants, refugees, neo-feminists, as you said oppressed minorities always start to oppress others(majorities????how???) and you obvsly
feel very oppressed. in the other thread you said feminism is almost there, you even gave percentages as if you could measure social progress in numbers. you have not understood the most basic truth, that is people are of equal worth, sure they are not equal in themselves. like so many people before you twist the argument to your favor, then try to feed it back and claim to be feel oppressed because they are "almost there" which means for you it's enough.
I dont think you understood what I wrote . The procent was obviously just a way , a example to show that things have improved so much .
You are saying I dont the basic truth that people have equal worth ? what are you talking about ?
I also said Im for the old traditional values of feminism that women should be equal . But I can not support the new feminism
You basicly posted 11 rows of text after completely misunderstanding my point . Going on a rant about my "views" that are not my views
So this is not only off topic , Its also taking my views , changing them and then claiming these are Montys view
sjw movement so powerful, yet you, the most reactionary, emotionally charged poster in this thread, have the most and the longest posts warning us of the dangers of uncontrolled influx of refugees, while in reality less and less are coming, many are even going back and you will probably still have your job, wife, flat, income, healthcare and never met one of them refugees face to face or suffer any of the atrocities perpetuated by uncivilized muslim refugees that you so love to bring up.
Im the least emotional in this thread . Everybody in this thread are arguing with me , calling me names , threatening me , giving no other reason to take in the refugees for no other reason then to " save them "
While Im giving real reasons how we are fucking the EU up by taking them in
So less are coming ? and many are even going back ? I thought these people were facing a certain death if they went back ? and they were not economical migrants ? . Guess its like that news story about Iraq refugees going home cause Finland was not the dream country they thought it was and its abit too cold . Spoken like people running for their lives
you have given zero constructive thoughts so far as to resolve this shit
Ive posted atleast 5 times . NATO ,Coalition forces , Russia , China and any other country that wants to join . Wipe ISIS and AQ out . If The Syrian forces want to join in thats fine . If they dont want to join in wipe them out too .
Send refugees back and keep them safe with peace troop , set up a new goverment , send food , build houses and school
Ive said that atleast 5 times or as you said "zero"
you are "training" for something to make a difference, which to me sounds more like you took up another form of martial arts or maybe started going to the shooting range to feel more powerful if "shit gets real". this is more prepper mentality than helpfulness.
Im in training , there are tests and I have to pass these tests , I have to sign papers / contract . Yeah sure that sounds like a martial arts ...
Who knows maybe Im training to become Batman . There are contracts for that right ?
concerning your thoughts on the legion, here is how to join them. i couldn't find numbers for percentage of muslims among them, but religion doesnt matter and large parts of the legion are stationed in uae and still algeria i think.
a thousand other points come to mind, but it won't be of any use as long as you keep acting like the kid asking why? all the time in that louis ck sketch. you post tabloid media as evidence, then others pick your shit apart then you come and call everyone out on phrasing and shit, resulting in the most useless discussions.
You want me to join the French Foreign Legion yet Im not allowed to ask why ? . You want me to join a foreign military unit from a country I dont really support their government or military actions , and if I ask why I am childish ?
A person Ive talked to maybe 4 times on a skateboard forum is telling me to join the French Foreign Legion . Yet I am like a kid when asking why ? Do you read the things you post ?
and as much as i sometimes disagree with the vehemence of his posts but tufty is perfectly right that the war won't be muslims vs western world, the war to come will be poor vs rich and their armies. if that war happens, legion etrangere might be a good faction to be aligned with
Im pretty sure the FFL would fight for the French government or the French Military . Who knows what side they would be in a future
world war .
A big problem with this last post of yours is that you didnt answer my replies . You havent read my past posts as you claim I have not done this or done that , when ive done it 3 or sometimes 5 times in this thread . You also took several of my views and miss represented them , twisted them into things I never said
I think the weirdest thing was telling me to join the FFL and then give me shit for asking why ? So in future post please read through the things I say so there are no miss understandings . And stop throwing " privilege " and entitlement in my face .
Even if I was that I can not change my privileged or entitlement . And Im allowed to have a opinion without being called on it . Otherwise almost nobody in EU or North America can have a opinion about anything
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I would be a great fan of Monty if he just killed himself.
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I would be a great fan of Monty if he just killed himself.
No way, cockroaches like him never die.
Monty, the Komvux you mentioned in the other thread must have had some low-ass requirements. You have zero abstract thinking.
The term Nazi Germany only applies to a certain period of time. You know, like Ancient Rome, USSR, DDR, etc. I don't think you were born 1925, your views, on the other hand, are from that approximate era. This crisis is not very new, you know.
I actually thought you were sarcastic with the whole taxpayer speech. Gave you way too much credit, my bad.
Still funny how more and more people chip in here and in cultural appropriation thread and think you're an idiot... No fucking way there could be a problem with your line of thinking, right?
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No way, cockroaches like him never die.
Everybody dies
Monty, the Komvux you mentioned in the other thread must have had some low-ass requirements. You have zero abstract thinking.
When did komvux deny people ever ? all you have to do is apply for the courses and if they have room for you , you are accepted . What courses in highschool , komvux or Lernia need abstract thinking ?
Most subjects in school is read , memorise and write it on the test . Are you sure you went to school in Sweden iKobrakai ? what courses in Swedish Highschool did you need abstract thinking in ? . Specialy as I went Hotel / Restaurant Lernia
I actually thought you were sarcastic with the whole taxpayer speech. Gave you way too much credit, my bad.
Ill throw the question back to you then . What good have you dont to help the war in syria or to help the refugee situation . You know besides threatening the refugees who live in your building and wanting to punch them ?
The term Nazi Germany only applies to a certain period of time. You know, like Ancient Rome, USSR, DDR, etc. I don't think you were born 1925, your views, on the other hand, are from that approximate era. This crisis is not very new, you know.
So when I said I would have joined the german army back when I was 17 ? and you made a comment that it would be Nazi Germany ?
Either I would need a time machine or you think I was born about 1925 . What Nazi comments have I made ?
Which is it ? Time machine or 1925 ?
Still funny how more and more people chip in here and in cultural appropriation thread and think you're an idiot... No fucking way there could be a problem with your line of thinking, right?
Who ? the 3 amigos of idiots ? Alan , Tufty and iKobrakai ?
There are plenty of SLAP posters who agree with me , but either dont want to join this fucked up thread . Or dont want to be called Racist , Nazi , Fascist or other insults by people like you . People will show it when voting instead of on SLAP
I said it on the first page . Anybody who talks out against the refugee situation will be branded these things
The majority of people in Europe think like I do . No government has expanded their intake of refugees . Some countries like Romania , Slovakia , Poland , Czech Republic , Macedonia , Hungary , Switzerland , Austria , Denmark , Norway has closed their borders completely
Some of these countries are openly breaking EU refugee laws by not taking in refugees . And nobody is doing anything about it
The 2 countries with most liberal and open borders Sweden and Germany have closed up their border and drastic lowerd their intake
The majority of EU countries have basicly said No to refugees and have gone into a treatment with Turkey and Greece to send back refugees
Baiscly you are calling the majority of the EU idiots , and iKobrakai is the smart one ...
I dont really think you should post in this thread or the thread about Feminism
You make up things I never said . You ask for answers and when I give them you dont read them or say the answer was too long to read .
You call me a nazi , racist and semi nazi . And each time I ask for a quotation of something Ive said that is racist or Nazi you ignore it and down answer . You call me coward yet show no proof of me being a coward . You call me "bitch ass" for changing my political stance
which is crazy . Who in their right mind would follow a political party or movement when you dont agree with their views ?
And you call out ISIS challenging them to fist fights on a skateboard forum . You might be crazier the Tufty
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I commend your patience, Frank. I ran out about ten pages ago but have recharged minimally. Monty, know that most here are trying to nudge you towards reason, even if they have resorted to flippant comments, like myself.
You claim a massive cover-up and post daily rape reports. You claim refugees are to blame for no-go area's, when they only just got here. You claim some hundred thousand refugees are swarming Sweden and say many of them are shown to be Balkans or other people that will be sent back. I believe you said 40% or something were to be sent back, effectively rendering the refugee crisis for Swedes nearly half as bad as you say. But then you go on to argue the problem as if all of them still count. These views are incoherent and/or contradictory. I hope you can see that.
I've said this before: I for one probably underestimated the problems Sweden is facing, at first. I've also pointed out this changes little about the refugee problem in Europe (the actual subject of this thread). But more importantly, it doesn't undermine the main point I was making: that Sweden itself is to blame for it. You can blame refugees for it, just not in any way that is logically sound. Like Belgium, and the West at large, your country has allowed their lower classes to become detached from society, made to feel like second-class citizens, and slide into relative or full-fledged poverty. This is not to say that a western country should always be ready for a mass-influx of desperate people (though I do consider this a civilized aim), but that you cannot blame refugees for their inability to cope with it. They merely highlight problems that countries like Sweden have neglected to adress in time. Malm� ghetto's, Bruxelles ghetto's; these have existed for many years. How is that okay?
Let's say you are right, that refugees now must be sacrificed to prevent Sweden from becoming a third-world country. No need to give refugees the guilt, in addition to the boot. At least have the honesty, the basic humanity to say that it's unfortunate for those fleeing war, as they have no fault in it. That it's disgraceful for a super powerful country to have to topple so selfishly.
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I commend your patience, Frank. I ran out about ten pages ago but have recharged minimally.
Patients ? hes called me asshole multiple times and is basicly making up lies about things Ive said
Monty, know that most here are trying to nudge you towards reason, even if they have resorted to flippant comments, like myself.
Oh you mean the people calling me Racist , Nazi , Semi Nazi , Racist . Or did you mean the people who are telling me to killmyself
or make rape threats ? . Im not sure thats nudging somebody to reason ...
You claim a massive cover-up
Wait you still dont belive there was a cover up ? Ive posted sources to about 10 news articles from 3 different nations papers . One was the New York times . The Swedish police even confirmed both incidents
post daily rape reports
Look the only reason for this is cause people keep bumping this thread . Ive said multiple times we should just let this thread die .
The reason I post these crimes from the refugees is cause somebody for example Tufty bumps it about some horrible thing the refugees
have to go through . So I just post a counter point to this . Its not hard to find though
You claim refugees are to blame for no-go area's, when they only just got here
Yes and No . I say former refugees who have been granted asylum and in some cases are living in Sweden and waiting for asylum have all moved into the same areas and turned it into ghettos with high crime and high unemployment and low Swedish language skills
Does it sound resalable that almost 70% of them have not gotten a job in Sweden in 10 years ? and 15 years ?
You claim some hundred thousand refugees are swarming Sweden and say many of them are shown to be Balkans or other people that will be sent back. I believe you said 40% or something were to be sent back, effectively rendering the refugee crisis for Swedes nearly half as bad as you say. But then you go on to argue the problem as if all of them still count. These views are incoherent and/or contradictory. I hope you can see that.
Yes and no again . If you get denied asylum in Sweden , which can take up to 1 year . You can just leave Sweden for a hour , turn around and
ask for asylum again . And you get a new application . Even the Swedish government officials said up to 50% of these denied asylum might just go under ground and stay in Sweden
I would assume its the same in many countries in the EU
Its all government propaganda that these people will be sent home . I posted a article before about 1 refugee being denied asylum and costing Sweden over 100k Euros to send him home , yet he is still in Sweden after more then 1 year with no word on when he is going to be deported
There was another case of a Moroccan dude who beat up a Mother infront of her children cause she stepped in while he was trying to rob a pensioner in Stockholm board daylight . Turns out hes been kicked out of Denmark , Norway and Sweden multiple times after seeking asylum multiple times . He is now in jail for the assault in Sweden and will be kicked out to Denmark after he has served his time
He does not have asylum in Denmark , but that is the last country he seeked asylum in . You think he will go back to Morocco ?
I believe that 40% will be more like 10% and of them about 5% will go under ground
it doesn't undermine the main point I was making: that Sweden itself is to blame for it. You can blame refugees for it, just not in any way that is logically sound. Like Belgium, and the West at large, your country has allowed their lower classes to become detached from society, made to feel like second-class citizens, and slide into relative or full-fledged poverty. This is not to say that a western country should always be ready for a mass-influx of desperate people (though I do consider this a civilized aim), but that you cannot blame refugees for their inability to cope with it. They merely highlight problems that countries like Sweden have neglected to adress in time. Malm� ghetto's, Bruxelles ghetto's; these have existed for many years. How is that okay?
Well thats over my pay grade . Im not sure what the answer is or why this is happening . Sweden like many countries in the EU have free healthcare , free school and college . And if you really want there are jobs out there . With the Shengen Agreement you can even go to school or college in different EU countries and even get jobs in many different EU countries
You even get paid in countries like Sweden and Denmark to stay in school
Poverty in Sweden compared to lets say India is a joke . If you dont have a job you get benefits , if you cant pay rent you get benefits .
Feel free to explain to me why somebody who grows up in Sweden as a child and gets free healthcare , free school , benefits , a home to grow up in , food , and plenty of other things cant adjust to Swedish Society
And why is it Swedens / EUs fault ?
You admit there are ghettos , that the EU and Sweden are failing at integrating these people . You say we are turning them into poor second class citizens .
"allowed their lower classes to become detached from society, made to feel like second-class citizens, and slide into relative or full-fledged poverty. "
And instead of trying to solve this problem , to fix what you say the EU broke . Your solution is to take in more people and add them to this broken system
Let's say you are right, that refugees now must be sacrificed to prevent Sweden from becoming a third-world country. No need to give refugees the guilt, in addition to the boot. At least have the honesty, the basic humanity to say that it's unfortunate for those fleeing war, as they have no fault in it. That it's disgraceful for a super powerful country to have to topple so selfishly.
See this is a miss conception . You say I dont feel sorry for them or dont want to help them . Frank says that to
But as Ive said multiple times we should help them with military intervention and sending food , medicine and doctors . Rebuilding the country
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(http://meowcheese.com/sites/meowcheese.com/files/images/2008/04/stop-posting.jpg)
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Expand Quote
I commend your patience, Frank. I ran out about ten pages ago but have recharged minimally.
Patients ? hes called me asshole multiple times and is basicly making up lies about things Ive said
Expand Quote
Monty, know that most here are trying to nudge you towards reason, even if they have resorted to flippant comments, like myself.
Oh you mean the people calling me Racist , Nazi , Semi Nazi , Racist . Or did you mean the people who are telling me to killmyself
or make rape threats ? . Im not sure thats nudging somebody to reason ...
Expand Quote
You claim a massive cover-up
Wait you still dont belive there was a cover up ? Ive posted sources to about 10 news articles from 3 different nations papers . One was the New York times . The Swedish police even confirmed both incidents
Look the only reason for this is cause people keep bumping this thread . Ive said multiple times we should just let this thread die .
The reason I post these crimes from the refugees is cause somebody for example Tufty bumps it about some horrible thing the refugees
have to go through . So I just post a counter point to this . Its not hard to find though
Expand Quote
You claim refugees are to blame for no-go area's, when they only just got here
Yes and No . I say former refugees who have been granted asylum and in some cases are living in Sweden and waiting for asylum have all moved into the same areas and turned it into ghettos with high crime and high unemployment and low Swedish language skills
Does it sound resalable that almost 70% of them have not gotten a job in Sweden in 10 years ? and 15 years ?
Expand Quote
You claim some hundred thousand refugees are swarming Sweden and say many of them are shown to be Balkans or other people that will be sent back. I believe you said 40% or something were to be sent back, effectively rendering the refugee crisis for Swedes nearly half as bad as you say. But then you go on to argue the problem as if all of them still count. These views are incoherent and/or contradictory. I hope you can see that.
Yes and no again . If you get denied asylum in Sweden , which can take up to 1 year . You can just leave Sweden for a hour , turn around and
ask for asylum again . And you get a new application . Even the Swedish government officials said up to 50% of these denied asylum might just go under ground and stay in Sweden
I would assume its the same in many countries in the EU
Its all government propaganda that these people will be sent home . I posted a article before about 1 refugee being denied asylum and costing Sweden over 100k Euros to send him home , yet he is still in Sweden after more then 1 year with no word on when he is going to be deported
There was another case of a Moroccan dude who beat up a Mother infront of her children cause she stepped in while he was trying to rob a pensioner in Stockholm board daylight . Turns out hes been kicked out of Denmark , Norway and Sweden multiple times after seeking asylum multiple times . He is now in jail for the assault in Sweden and will be kicked out to Denmark after he has served his time
He does not have asylum in Denmark , but that is the last country he seeked asylum in . You think he will go back to Morocco ?
I believe that 40% will be more like 10% and of them about 5% will go under ground
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it doesn't undermine the main point I was making: that Sweden itself is to blame for it. You can blame refugees for it, just not in any way that is logically sound. Like Belgium, and the West at large, your country has allowed their lower classes to become detached from society, made to feel like second-class citizens, and slide into relative or full-fledged poverty. This is not to say that a western country should always be ready for a mass-influx of desperate people (though I do consider this a civilized aim), but that you cannot blame refugees for their inability to cope with it. They merely highlight problems that countries like Sweden have neglected to adress in time. Malm� ghetto's, Bruxelles ghetto's; these have existed for many years. How is that okay?
Well thats over my pay grade . Im not sure what the answer is or why this is happening . Sweden like many countries in the EU have free healthcare , free school and college . And if you really want there are jobs out there . With the Shengen Agreement you can even go to school or college in different EU countries and even get jobs in many different EU countries
You even get paid in countries like Sweden and Denmark to stay in school
Poverty in Sweden compared to lets say India is a joke . If you dont have a job you get benefits , if you cant pay rent you get benefits .
Feel free to explain to me why somebody who grows up in Sweden as a child and gets free healthcare , free school , benefits , a home to grow up in , food , and plenty of other things cant adjust to Swedish Society
And why is it Swedens / EUs fault ?
You admit there are ghettos , that the EU and Sweden are failing at integrating these people . You say we are turning them into poor second class citizens .
"allowed their lower classes to become detached from society, made to feel like second-class citizens, and slide into relative or full-fledged poverty. "
And instead of trying to solve this problem , to fix what you say the EU broke . Your solution is to take in more people and add them to this broken system
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Let's say you are right, that refugees now must be sacrificed to prevent Sweden from becoming a third-world country. No need to give refugees the guilt, in addition to the boot. At least have the honesty, the basic humanity to say that it's unfortunate for those fleeing war, as they have no fault in it. That it's disgraceful for a super powerful country to have to topple so selfishly.
See this is a miss conception . You say I dont feel sorry for them or dont want to help them . Frank says that to
But as Ive said multiple times we should help them with military intervention and sending food , medicine and doctors . Rebuilding the country
I'm only responding to this because Tracer asked me not to.
But this is fucking hopeless man. You have a genuine talent for missing the point. This frustrates people to the point of name-calling I think. You need to realize you repeatedly stated that your mind could not possibly be changed on this topic. That is what kept this thread from being a debate, a lot of pages ago. You write but do not partake, are not up for actual debate. Over ninety percent of this threa pertains to Sweden. Think about that for a sec. I couldn't care less about your diploma's, but you either lack or do not bother applying reading and reasoning skills.
I know things were covered up, most of all by your country. But what you are saying is that all of those rape reports you post are just the tip of the iceberg. Thousands upon thousands of girls are raped, by refugees, every single day. It happens right under our nose, but we are too PC to address it. The statistical implication of what you are saying is that we both know at least one woman who was been raped, by a refugee, in recent months, but we just don't know it. One of us must necessarily be deluded.
I've said this before and I trust you will ignore it again. Many of the migrants, from whatever generation, were invited by your government, to do work your grandparents couldn't be bothered to do, busy as they were lining their pockets with more lucrative stuff. You know, the way of the west. The point you are making here is that this is all the fault of the migrants themselves. Now, I'm not arguing the opposite, that it is all the fault of Swedish governments. It is a societal problem in all of the west, so apparently integrating a fuckload of fully-grown foreigners is pretty hard to do. Not solely the migrants' fault, and not solely the government's. But the state does hold the power, and with it responsibility. To say that 70% of new Swedes must never have bothered to try is just a piss-poor explanation.
Now refugees have pointed out these flaws in our societies. You propose we sacrifice them. By that I don't mean you don't have a heart, which you weirdly countered with. I only ever accused you of a lack of reason. What have I to do with feelings? I was only repeating you, as you advocate closing borders indiscriminately. So, own up to that. War children help to pay for Swedish mismanagement. So it goes.
By the way, note that your solution of not letting in more, is not an actual solution. It only contains the problem. Makes sure it doesn't get bigger. You will still have your ghetto's to blissfully ignore, only to bring them up in the future when you need a reason to not help a brother out.
Turning around and re-applying for asylum is not the case in my country. At this point nothing would surprise me about Sweden though, so I bet it's true over there. Again, this is a failure of your government, for which war children need to pay.
I hear you on those percentages, I also doubt 40% will go back. But in terms of intelligence and resources, this is pure clumsiness on the part of the state. The same way some dangerous Jihadi's come back and go largely unnoticed. It sucks, and I wish we did better, but I'm not about to advocate sacrificing war children (I will continue to call them this, to make clear the distinction for you between refugees and others), just because we are in trouble. Your thinking is devoid of principles. I always opt for preventing the guaranteed suffering of one innocent person, over the possible or anticipated pain of another, no matter where either are from.
Thus people may perceive you as being racist, or some kind of fascist, because you place the lives of certain Swedish people over that of other humans. Now, this indeed is the same thought a racist might have. But I don't think of you as a racist, because I don't think you comprehend or oversee the implications of the things you advocate. I think intention is crucial, and you are at worst a haphazard racist. A bigot by accident.
This is the most dangerous kind, if you think about it. They never actually say anything cruel, but cruelty can be done in their name without even them realizing it. No wonder you liked Israel so much.
With this in mind, I don't expect an ability or willingness from you to empathise with a new Swede, who did fuck all with his benefits. But I am glad to see you still know the difference between the Ikea third world, and actual fucking India.
Our morality is the only thing we have to defend. The rest is just land and stuff and imagined communities.
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This is what Monty hopes to do when he joins the army:
https://www.rt.com/news/334866-turkish-guards-shoot-refugees/ (https://www.rt.com/news/334866-turkish-guards-shoot-refugees/)
Unless of course he becomes an army cook. In any case, I would love to see the footage of a 20 year-old corporal ordering a 30-something year old high school drop out to do push ups. Imagine the reaction of Monty's NCO to all his stupid questions. Then imagine if the officer calls him an asshole and Monty gets super upset and realizes that he might have made a huge mistake. I just hope he doesn't become the next Breivik.
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Everybody dies
Wah!!! No way!
When did komvux deny people ever ? all you have to do is apply for the courses and if they have room for you , you are accepted . What courses in highschool , komvux or Lernia need abstract thinking ?
They have specific requirements in order to pass courses.
Most subjects in school is read , memorise and write it on the test . Are you sure you went to school in Sweden iKobrakai ? what courses in Swedish Highschool did you need abstract thinking in ? . Specialy as I went Hotel / Restaurant Lernia
Not like math, science and language require abstract thinking...
So when I said I would have joined the german army back when I was 17 ? and you made a comment that it would be Nazi Germany ?
Either I would need a time machine or you think I was born about 1925 . What Nazi comments have I made ?
Which is it ? Time machine or 1925 ?
Speaking of abstract thinking...
There are plenty of SLAP posters who agree with me , but either dont want to join this fucked up thread . Or dont want to be called Racist , Nazi , Fascist or other insults by people like you . People will show it when voting instead of on SLAP
Hey, that is not true at all! I must have called you an idiot at some point.
The majority of people in Europe think like I do .
You and a bunch of other fucking white thrash think alike.
Baiscly you are calling the majority of the EU idiots , and iKobrakai is the smart one ...
Im smarter than the average bear.
You make up things I never said . You ask for answers and when I give them you dont read them or say the answer was too long to read .
I'm not the only one. I imagine your teachers had a similar experience.
You call me a nazi , racist and semi nazi . And each time I ask for a quotation of something Ive said that is racist or Nazi you ignore it and down answer . You call me coward yet show no proof of me being a coward . You call me "bitch ass" for changing my political stance which is crazy .
Prefer to be called person and/or moron, instead? Sure thing.
And you call out ISIS challenging them to fist fights on a skateboard forum . You might be crazier the Tufty
In clinical terms, my long term addiction, numerous hospital/detox/rehab visits, severe anxiety and mild OCD make me craizier that Tufty. Finally, you got something right.
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No 1 Rule of propaganda: "The masses are in general sexually oppressed and unhappy, challenging their unhealthy sexual insticts is the best way to turn them against a minority. Therefore rape threat was heavily used against Jews in Nazi Germany and blacks in US south". Dude on my avatar has wrote several books on the matters.
When I call Monty a closet-Nazi I am not doing that because I want to provoke him. I truly believe that people have the evil of "Nazism" and the good in their heart, but unfortunately power wants us to express our evil side in order to preserve its power. I call Monty a person because he cant even understand these things and he keeps digging his grave by just confirming that he is a closet-Nazi ready to do whatever, even cannibalize in order to preserve the status quo.
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Im kinda done with this thread . Unless something major happens I think we are all set on our opinions and what side we are on
for excitableboy and some of you other dudes
Over ninety percent of this thread pertains to Sweden. Think about that for a sec.
Yeah because Im from Sweden and from the EU. My French is not that good . And I dont read german , austrian news papers . I really wish more people from those countries would chime in
But more importantly over 90% is about Monty in this thread . Im trying to argue my points and ideas yet its turned into a " Monty said this , Monty did that , Monty is a xxxx " . I asked time after time to lets stay on topic and avoid personal attacks
If Im a nazi or not a nazi is not the discussion . The discussion is about the refugee crisis in Europe
But this is fucking hopeless man. You have a genuine talent for missing the point
I've said this before and I trust you will ignore it again
See this can be turned around on most people who argue with me . It really seems you guys dont understand the things I say
People in this thread have called me Racist , Fascist , Nazi and a bunch of other things . This is a case of not understanding the things I say
Time after time people have said things like " Monty doesnt want dark skinned people in Sweden " or " Monty doesnt want to help the refugees and he wants to kill them "
These are the easiest things to disprove . Ive said countless times that Im for skilled worker Immigration from ANY country . Meaning that if you are a skilled worker , lets say a Nigerian or Afghan Scientist that is good at his job I want you in the EU , I want you in Sweden
Ive also said that instead of helping refugees in Sweden and the EU , We should do it in Syria and the countries closest to Syria
Honestly if the Coalition , Nato , South america , Asia all pulled their shit together and went in with food and build temperory housing for refugees while there was a major military intervention in Syria . How long would the war last ?? a month ? 2 ? maybe more like 2 weeks
See this is the main part what is wrong with this thread . People care more about labelling me different offensive names then trying to understand what Im actually saying
Both AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice and Frank have posted in this thread totally miss representing things I said , miss quoiting me and just posted random things I never said . Now AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice apologized for it so thats fine . But that is not what I said
Alan has multiple times questioned my use of dailymail as a creditble source . Yet he posts things from ".imgur.com/" " tumbler "
along with out dated studies , diagrams and statistic . Add that to the repeated insults and the super weird thing where he is
posting time after time after time about my education . For somebody who tries to come of as intelligent and better then me
He sure has a weird way of doing it , debate style of a 5 year old with a vendetta against me
I think he even one time started fixing my spelling mistakes and now calling me a new anders breivik. Must me nice to have him on your side
Tufty and iKobrakai are both just nuts . I cant see how anybody would agree with anything they say . Do a quick search on SLAP on their posts and you will see what I mean
The thing is even if I was a black jewish lesbian nazi . That does not matter , you should be able to have a discussion / debate with me without
calling me person ,Racist , Fascist , Nazi , threatening me with violence and so on . The discussion here has been fucked up from the start
When I bring up facts like the current integration problems , the problems to find work , homes , schools , healthcare , money and many many other things for the influx of refugees
The majority of replies have been " Monty is a racist "
And thats the main problem with this thread
Thanks for the people who stayed on topic and avoided using insults and threats . Bye bye
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(http://cms.cb.asmsrv.co/cnvyr/cpprimary/590x393/champagne%20pop.jpg)
j/k, I know he'll be back.
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Monty, I know what I wrote, no need to repeat it. Yes, I hate the fuckers that were born here and can still barely build a sentence. Yes, stand in my way while smoking shitty weed = burst mouth. Yes, I hate the savages that refuse to adopt to simple concept as waiting in line. Yes, as soon as I can, I'm out of here, natural strive for better things. I show it and ready to fight for it.
What do you do for that great white cause of yours?
And this "A person trying to show the positive effects of medical marijuana or trying to legalize medical marijuana would not post negative sources and links to show the otherwise" is a great illustration of your level of stupid.
I have a link to prove my point: https://www.flashback.org/f13 (https://www.flashback.org/f13)
See nothing but retards? You just put yourself in that category. You are that fucking biased.
So you post me a link to flashback which shows multiple threads about cannabis .� What does that prove ?� Thats not what I was asking for .
You need to post a link to somebody who is actively debating the positive effects of medical Marijuana while at the same time posting the negative effects of marijuana
And Im only biased because nobody in this thread have posted the positive things about accepting all these "refugees" into the EU
almost 20 pages and still not a single post about how taking in all these people will benefit us�
You are right about me not really doing anything for my cause . In alot of ways I was born in the wrong country . If I was in the UK , USA , NZ , Australia , Poland , Germany or many other countries I probably would have been in the military at age 17 and out there doing something good
But yeah , besides voting , paying taxes and donating money to certain charities . I probably havent done much good in the world besides spreading happiness to people with food
Ill say Im currently "in training" for something where I could have a effect on things . But as I havent signed any papers or passed the tests yet I wont say what it is . I dont wanna claim something and then have to back track if I dont go ahead with it
for sure, monty, you a real role model. if you're eager to "do something good" why not join the french foreign legion. then again there's probably too many north-african/arabic people in there for you to feel comfortable.
i imagine you playing microsoft flight simulator so you can apply for remote controlling drones so you can bomb housing and hospitals, then play the butthurt victim when these people flee the country or join the various terrorist groups out of a grudge against the bombings? then whine around how sweden is missing housing and hospitals for real swedes.
you're a cook, you could make a difference if you use your knowledge to come up with a plan how to feed all these people effectively for low cost and to cover basic nutritional needs. you could advocate that people don't throw away good food and take it to shelters instead if they don't consume it.
the reason not many people in this thread say that this is a super beneficial thing for europe is because most people have a more grounded view on it than you. most people arguing with you see the same problems, but your bias against refugees and basically anything that you perceive as sjw policy(any progressive view you don't agree on) makes you cherry pick the most gruesome stories. you act like that stuff happens everyday and that's not true. statistically, in germany there are far more attacks on refugees by locals than vice versa. the beneficial
part about this happening will only be clear after the fact, that means we will see it maybe two or three decades from now on, depending on how successful integration will be or it will be WWIII and this time it's the muslims instead of jews and whole europe instead of third reich.
also, that muslim-murder story, you focus on the psycho that killed the shop keeper. i don't give a fuck about religion and i think christianity and islam are stupid all the same, i mean it's the same basic religion with different prophets. yet i can see what the shopkeeper did was really cool. i don't understand why this seems to be an example for you of the dangers of islam. clearly the murderer is a psychopath that will spend hopefully most if not the rest of his life in jail. as much as you want it but fundamentalist psychos are not the norm amongst the muslim populace. the case is not a metaphor for violent islam wins over peaceful islam. if we would treat christianity the same way we treat islam,
millions of europeans should have renounced christianity back in 2012 when the most gruesome man in the world was christian fanatic joseph kony.
it didn't make people question their own faith that such a monster wages wars and kills hundreds of thousands in this day and age in the name of christianity. but the crazy deathcult that is isis is supposed to be the "real face" of islam, as told by, well, lots of people that never read the koran. i have never read that book either but i don't make assumptions about what it says. obviously most of the muslim world and most muslim leaders condemn violence and terror. the difference seems to be that in general their sincerity is questioned by islamophobes that claim to have a better understanding(i.e. cigarettebeer) of a faith and culture than the people living it itself. this kind of ignorance and arrogance will lead to more hostility in the long run imo. if some dipshit that can't barely handle a microwave came to your kitchen straight talking shit about how you handle your knives wrong you'd think that dude is a clown. to me all these non-muslims claiming to know about real islam are clowns.
and before you ask me what i have done: basically nothing, i have no practical skills and most my jobs were concerned with problem solving with clients and customers--->my job is thinking and talking. i basically have no medical skills, i suck at carpentry, i only speak two languages fluently and i'm only good at making money with my conversational skills. i also usually work 40-50hours a week. so yeah, i just gave away lots of stuff i don't use anymore, mostly clothes, an old cellphone, backpacks and such. then again i'm really more kind of apathetic to the situation in terms of how my views on the world have changed, because they have not. if i was asked if we should let millions of refugees in here i'd say depends, sounds dumb tho in general. well history apparently doesn't give a shit about what you or me thinks and because we can't stop it, we have to deal with it, preferably in a humane manner.
totally agree on this. i said it before and i'll say it again and again and again.
1.europe and "the west" in general have flourished through the exploitation of poor countries.
2.now there is a backlash.
3.get on with it.
it doesnt matter if it was your/my grandpa who bombed the fuck out of palestine/iraq/iran/egypt/serbia/etc and if the bombing was done 100 years ago (i use bombing as a limited example). you and me are still enjoying the fruits of that exploitation. people dont forget that easy. someone stole 200eu off me three years ago. im still after him. imagine what i would do if someone bombed my house and killed all my family. and im not a brave one. i would consider the backlash to be fairly tame so far and am expecting some major issues to come. i am extremely worried but in no way am i angry towards any immigrants. i am angry towards all the peolpe responsible for all this. i guess voting should be taken seriously.
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See this can be turned around on most people who argue with me . It really seems you guys dont understand the things I say
I wonder why...
People in this thread have called me Racist , Fascist , Nazi and a bunch of other things . This is a case of not understanding the things I say
We can read, you know. Read between the lines
Honestly if the Coalition , Nato , South america , Asia all pulled their shit together and went in with food and build temperory housing for refugees while there was a major military intervention in Syria . How long would the war last ?? a month ? 2 ? maybe more like 2 weeks
Right, Vietnam war was over in 2 weeks or so...
.....I think he even one time started fixing my spelling mistakes and now calling me a new anders breivik. Must me nice to have him on your side
It's Anders Breivik.
Tufty and iKobrakai are both just nuts . I cant see how anybody would agree with anything they say . Do a quick search on SLAP on their posts and you will see what I mean
I can live with that. You, on the other hand, are crying all over this board.
The thing is even if I was a black jewish lesbian nazi . That does not matter , you should be able to have a discussion / debate with me without calling me person ,Racist , Fascist , Nazi , threatening me with violence and so on . The discussion here has been fucked up from the start
This is Slap, not Mensa. What did think would happen? I love how you put capital R in person. Baker 3, anyone?
When I bring up facts like the current integration problems , the problems to find work , homes , schools , healthcare , money and many many other things for the influx of refugees
Like we are not aware of the costs associated with this crisis.
Thanks for the people who stayed on topic and avoided using insults and threats . Bye bye
Don't leave! Where will we get objective information now?
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Im kinda done with this thread . Unless something major happens I think we are all set on our opinions and what side we are on
for excitableboy and some of you other dudes
Expand Quote
Over ninety percent of this thread pertains to Sweden. Think about that for a sec.
Yeah because Im from Sweden and from the EU. My French is not that good . And I dont read german , austrian news papers . I really wish more people from those countries would chime in
But more importantly over 90% is about Monty in this thread . Im trying to argue my points and ideas yet its turned into a " Monty said this , Monty did that , Monty is a xxxx " . I asked time after time to lets stay on topic and avoid personal attacks
If Im a nazi or not a nazi is not the discussion . The discussion is about the refugee crisis in Europe
Expand Quote
But this is fucking hopeless man. You have a genuine talent for missing the point
I've said this before and I trust you will ignore it again
See this can be turned around on most people who argue with me . It really seems you guys dont understand the things I say
People in this thread have called me Racist , Fascist , Nazi and a bunch of other things . This is a case of not understanding the things I say
Time after time people have said things like " Monty doesnt want dark skinned people in Sweden " or " Monty doesnt want to help the refugees and he wants to kill them "
These are the easiest things to disprove . Ive said countless times that Im for skilled worker Immigration from ANY country . Meaning that if you are a skilled worker , lets say a Nigerian or Afghan Scientist that is good at his job I want you in the EU , I want you in Sweden
Ive also said that instead of helping refugees in Sweden and the EU , We should do it in Syria and the countries closest to Syria
Honestly if the Coalition , Nato , South america , Asia all pulled their shit together and went in with food and build temperory housing for refugees while there was a major military intervention in Syria . How long would the war last ?? a month ? 2 ? maybe more like 2 weeks
See this is the main part what is wrong with this thread . People care more about labelling me different offensive names then trying to understand what Im actually saying
Both AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice and Frank have posted in this thread totally miss representing things I said , miss quoiting me and just posted random things I never said . Now AnotherHardDayAtTheOffice apologized for it so thats fine . But that is not what I said
Alan has multiple times questioned my use of dailymail as a creditble source . Yet he posts things from ".imgur.com/" " tumbler "
along with out dated studies , diagrams and statistic . Add that to the repeated insults and the super weird thing where he is
posting time after time after time about my education . For somebody who tries to come of as intelligent and better then me
He sure has a weird way of doing it , debate style of a 5 year old with a vendetta against me
I think he even one time started fixing my spelling mistakes and now calling me a new anders breivik. Must me nice to have him on your side
Tufty and iKobrakai are both just nuts . I cant see how anybody would agree with anything they say . Do a quick search on SLAP on their posts and you will see what I mean
The thing is even if I was a black jewish lesbian nazi . That does not matter , you should be able to have a discussion / debate with me without
calling me person ,Racist , Fascist , Nazi , threatening me with violence and so on . The discussion here has been fucked up from the start
When I bring up facts like the current integration problems , the problems to find work , homes , schools , healthcare , money and many many other things for the influx of refugees
The majority of replies have been " Monty is a racist "
And thats the main problem with this thread
Thanks for the people who stayed on topic and avoided using insults and threats . Bye bye
You are kinda done with this thread because God forbid you have to think about something properly. I never called you racist, but now you use it against me anyway, as an excuse not to bother thinking about the problems of your views.
No you don't advocate the genocide of Nigerian doctors. You even want them in Sweden. And you want to help refugees too. I already know this, I've said this myself in the last post. You just don't oversee what you advocate. Helping overseas is what we have been doing for the past thirty years. It will not change the current situation. Closing the borders will also not solve the problems in Sweden. The policies you want will without any question lead to war children being sacrificed. That isn't my opinion versus yours, it is fact. The only justification you have given for it is that there are too many rotten apples people coming in who ruin it for the refugees, and that Swedes already have it very tough. The government was doing a poor job running the country, so why add more problems to it?
That is the only argument you have: war children unfortunately have to pay for Sweden's inability to manage. Except you refuse to use the word 'unfortunately' in that sentence. You want desperately to hang on to the delusion that what you think is perfectly noble. Ignore me all you want, but that won't change facts. What you say may not be racist, but it is morally abject. Don't worry, many people have many abject opinions and skewed moral compasses. I would guess that you indeed are in the majority. Just keep repeating your pseudo-solutions and fears and pretend no one has debunked all of it.
I could not care less if people call me racist or fascist. Much more annoyed by people who refuse to read and discuss.
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Monty you must be driven crazy every time you come into this thread. You seem like a reasonable guy and calling you a racist and other things have mostly been cop out arguments. I have never seen someones words get twisted so much. Big ups on attempting to refute so many of the points your opponent's have made.
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http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/03/police-officer-slashed-by-15-year-old-girl-in-isis-inspired-attack/ (http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/03/police-officer-slashed-by-15-year-old-girl-in-isis-inspired-attack/)
The Jihadist Next Door (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DsG9yQrdD4#)
(http://i.imgur.com/iOu2GgG.jpg)
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Immigrants sent back to turkey.
(https://scontent.fath3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xal1/v/t1.0-9/12924410_784928701639934_5532241640150734986_n.jpg?oh=dc2b61953f12b8559a73381cfccde738&oe=578C0227)
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U.S not taking refugees? Anyone concerned about these people?
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers-a6971111.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers-a6971111.html)
It's widespread practice for schoolchildren in Switzerland to shake the hands of their teacher at the beginning and end of each day. Now, one school's decision to exempt two children from this tradition – because the children are Muslim and their teacher is a woman – has caused a storm of controversy across the European state.
The two pupils at the school in the town of Therwil, near Basel, had requested an exemption from shaking a female teacher's hand, citing their belief that it would go against Islamic teachings. The local school district later came up with what they felt was an acceptable compromise that could avoid discrimination: The pupils, who are aged 14 and 15, would not be required to shake any teacher's' hands, whether they were male or female.
However, the plan hit a hitch when the Schweiz am Sonntag reported on it, sparking a public debate about the compromise. "We cannot accept this in the name of religious freedom," Swiss Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said in an interview with Swiss-German broadcaster SRF. "The handshake is part of our culture.”
Others agreed. "Today's it's the handshake and what will it be tomorrow?" Felix Mueri, a member of the anti-immigration Swiss People's Party and head of the Swiss parliament's education commission, said in an interview with the 20 Minuten news site.
Both the Swiss Teacher's Union and the local Therwil council have also come out against the plan. However, the school itself has defended the decision, despite the controversy. “They are no longer allowed to shake the hand of any teacher, male or female," headmaster Jurg Lauener told SRF, "For us, that addresses the question of discrimination.”
The Swiss Muslim community has largely suggested that the boys are misinterpreting Islamic teachings with their refusal to shake their teachers hands. "[To] the students and parents I would suggest to the following reflection: Can the denial of shaking hands be more important than the Islamic commandment of mutual respect?" Dr. Montassar Ben Mrad, president of Federation of Islamic Organizations in Switzerland, said in the statement.
However, another group suggested that the backlash to the boys was overblown. "One would think that the continued existence of Switzerland's core values was at stake, when this particular case in fact involves just two high school students who have said they wish to greet their teacher in a different way than with a handshake," a statement from the Islamic Central Council of Switzerland said.
I see they are enriching the society already. Hopefully the people from the article criticizing the policy change have already been arrested for their hate crimes against Islam.
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THis shaking hands thing is regular and laughable.
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THis shaking hands thing is regular and laughable.
Yes. Not only is it gross, you are basically asking for a a higher spread of diseases. Get your shit together, Switzerland.
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https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/713390308802479/ (https://www.facebook.com/ajplusenglish/videos/713390308802479/)
Hunger strikes and threats of suicide are a common aftermath of the EU-Turkey deal. There are rumours of two people commiting suicide as soon as they returned in Turkey. Desperate people with nothing to lose threaten their life in a last attempt to not be sent to Turkey, which is not a safe country nor their destination. Escaping from poverty for me is the same as escaping war. Fuck the global elites for not allowing free transportation in fear that there will be no slaves left in those countries for our multinationals to exploit.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers-a6971111.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers-a6971111.html)
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It's widespread practice for schoolchildren in Switzerland to shake the hands of their teacher at the beginning and end of each day. Now, one school's decision to exempt two children from this tradition � because the children are Muslim and their teacher is a woman � has caused a storm of controversy across the European state.
The two pupils at the school in the town of Therwil, near Basel, had requested an exemption from shaking a female teacher's hand, citing their belief that it would go against Islamic teachings. The local school district later came up with what they felt was an acceptable compromise that could avoid discrimination: The pupils, who are aged 14 and 15, would not be required to shake any teacher's' hands, whether they were male or female.
However, the plan hit a hitch when the Schweiz am Sonntag reported on it, sparking a public debate about the compromise. "We cannot accept this in the name of religious freedom," Swiss Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said in an interview with Swiss-German broadcaster SRF. "The handshake is part of our culture.�
Others agreed. "Today's it's the handshake and what will it be tomorrow?" Felix Mueri, a member of the anti-immigration Swiss People's Party and head of the Swiss parliament's education commission, said in an interview with the 20 Minuten news site.
Both the Swiss Teacher's Union and the local Therwil council have also come out against the plan. However, the school itself has defended the decision, despite the controversy. �They are no longer allowed to shake the hand of any teacher, male or female," headmaster Jurg Lauener told SRF, "For us, that addresses the question of discrimination.�
The Swiss Muslim community has largely suggested that the boys are misinterpreting Islamic teachings with their refusal to shake their teachers hands. "[To] the students and parents I would suggest to the following reflection: Can the denial of shaking hands be more important than the Islamic commandment of mutual respect?" Dr. Montassar Ben Mrad, president of Federation of Islamic Organizations in Switzerland, said in the statement.
However, another group suggested that the backlash to the boys was overblown. "One would think that the continued existence of Switzerland's core values was at stake, when this particular case in fact involves just two high school students who have said they wish to greet their teacher in a different way than with a handshake," a statement from the Islamic Central Council of Switzerland said.
I see they are enriching the society already. Hopefully the people from the article criticizing the policy change have already been arrested for their hate crimes against Islam.
Have you researched at all why they don't shake hands with women? Its not because they don't respect women. Its because they see touching women at all as potentially sexual and disrespectful. Not shaking hands with women to them is a sign of respect, acknowledging that you don't have a right to touch them. Its considered a sign of humility and chastity.
I'll admit that, as a Westerner, I also thought the only possible reason for this was to disrespect women, but you should at least investigate before drawing that conclusion. Islamic and Western culture are very different and often misunderstood by each other.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers-a6971111.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers-a6971111.html)
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It's widespread practice for schoolchildren in Switzerland to shake the hands of their teacher at the beginning and end of each day. Now, one school's decision to exempt two children from this tradition � because the children are Muslim and their teacher is a woman � has caused a storm of controversy across the European state.
The two pupils at the school in the town of Therwil, near Basel, had requested an exemption from shaking a female teacher's hand, citing their belief that it would go against Islamic teachings. The local school district later came up with what they felt was an acceptable compromise that could avoid discrimination: The pupils, who are aged 14 and 15, would not be required to shake any teacher's' hands, whether they were male or female.
However, the plan hit a hitch when the Schweiz am Sonntag reported on it, sparking a public debate about the compromise. "We cannot accept this in the name of religious freedom," Swiss Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said in an interview with Swiss-German broadcaster SRF. "The handshake is part of our culture.�
Others agreed. "Today's it's the handshake and what will it be tomorrow?" Felix Mueri, a member of the anti-immigration Swiss People's Party and head of the Swiss parliament's education commission, said in an interview with the 20 Minuten news site.
Both the Swiss Teacher's Union and the local Therwil council have also come out against the plan. However, the school itself has defended the decision, despite the controversy. �They are no longer allowed to shake the hand of any teacher, male or female," headmaster Jurg Lauener told SRF, "For us, that addresses the question of discrimination.�
The Swiss Muslim community has largely suggested that the boys are misinterpreting Islamic teachings with their refusal to shake their teachers hands. "[To] the students and parents I would suggest to the following reflection: Can the denial of shaking hands be more important than the Islamic commandment of mutual respect?" Dr. Montassar Ben Mrad, president of Federation of Islamic Organizations in Switzerland, said in the statement.
However, another group suggested that the backlash to the boys was overblown. "One would think that the continued existence of Switzerland's core values was at stake, when this particular case in fact involves just two high school students who have said they wish to greet their teacher in a different way than with a handshake," a statement from the Islamic Central Council of Switzerland said.
I see they are enriching the society already. Hopefully the people from the article criticizing the policy change have already been arrested for their hate crimes against Islam.
Have you researched at all why they don't shake hands with women? Its not because they don't respect women. Its because they see touching women at all as potentially sexual and disrespectful. Not shaking hands with women to them is a sign of respect, acknowledging that you don't have a right to touch them. Its considered a sign of humility and chastity.
I'll admit that, as a Westerner, I also thought the only possible reason for this was to disrespect women, but you should at least investigate before drawing that conclusion. Islamic and Western culture are very different and often misunderstood by each other.
Westerners going to Japan shake hands and bow when meeting new people / doing business . Japanese used to only bow but now when western people / business is more common they shake and bow
Westerners going to the middle east try to respect the culture by not for example shaking hands with women , western woman wearing hijabs and not drinking in public
A muslim not shaking hands with a western woman in a western country / culture is disrespectful by automatic . Just the act of not shaking hands with the woman means its disrespectful no matter what the reason
Its a sign of mutal respect between people in the west to shake the hand no matter what sex or race
Its also a example of the oppression of women in muslim culture . Women have to cover them selfs up , cant drive , cant leave the house alone or meet a man by themselves . Cause they cant control their actions
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On economic immigrants and why those people are no different than refugees in terms of needs and threats on their lives. The original post is from a greek UN ambassador that works on human rights in 3rd world countries and emerging economies .
This is the original post:
https://www.facebook.com/fragkiska.megaloudi/posts/10153542950217514 (https://www.facebook.com/fragkiska.megaloudi/posts/10153542950217514)
This is my translation:
When I was working in IRIN offices in Bangkong, Bagladesh was one of the countries I was covering. I have done some visits in Dhaka and I have written about the problems the country faces. I had read 346 pages in one day with statistics coming from government sources, something that became an anecdote in the office. During one of my visits I interviewd the general secretary of the labour party, who had then been incarcerated. Dhaka is the definition of inequality, in a level that no one can imagine.
Bagladesh due to climatic change, loses grounds from the rising of the sea level. The aftermath of this is thousands of farmers losing their property, being drowned in debt and being forced to move in towns in order to find a job. Job in towns, for them, means 1-2$ per day in factories where there are is no safety regulation and child labour is common. Dhaka is a city-monster. The water is poisoned and poor people live in the streets. We are talking about hundreds of families in the streets, eating, sleeping, breeding and dieing there. People who still own land cant sell their products. The mass use of pesticides has permanently poisoned the ground and all the agricultural products of Bagladesh are poisoned. To all these add a corrupted and pro-rich government, that sees citizens as worms and a big game of millions played on the backs of the poor by NGOs and international organizations. Furthermore add the loans that the country has received from IMF and World Bank and you have an explosive cocktail of inequality, poverty and social exclusion.
Many of the Bagladeshis are fleeing the country. Bagladeshis are the third most populated group amongst immigrants that cross the greek borders in their way to Europe. THey are amongst the first that get sent back too. They are sent back to what? In Dhaka I saw terrible things. I saw kids of indebted villagers being sold to brothels or factories so that they can pay back their loan. And I know that when Bagladeshis flee they have left a big debt behind them and nothing more. I understand that we cant solve everyone's problems. Granted that the first 750 that got deported from Turkey are either from Pakistan or Bagladesh, and they are considered economic immigrants, that dont have the right to hope, what do you think would be a realistic solution to the problem? Please answer logically and without any bias. I know that the solution is change of the economic system but this doesnt come anytime soon. What can we do in the meanwhile to save 16 year olds like little Shurana, that I met in Dhaka 4 years ago, to not sell her body in the streets for debts that she didnt create? (the photo was taken by my colleague that travelled with me © Manoocher Deghati)
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
"sweep the leg"...
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
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http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/refugees-tear-gassed-macedonia-greece-border-160410140009203.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/refugees-tear-gassed-macedonia-greece-border-160410140009203.html)
Many people, including small children, who were not involved in the clashes, were suffering from respiratory problems. Volunteer doctors were treating several dozen refugees with respiratory problems, slight injuries from the plastic bullets and facial injuries from close quarter clashes when the fence was temporarily breached.
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
Please, I threaten any cunt that begs for a burst mouth. Your bitch ass has been owned by me, why are you still here, did not you say that you were done? Want some more ass ripping? I can arrange that.
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
Please, I threaten any cunt that begs for a burst mouth. Your bitch ass has been owned by me, why are you still here, did not you say that you were done? Want some more ass ripping? I can arrange that.
Sure sure , just happens that 100% of them are foreign . Nothing racist about that Mr white power ...
I came back , the game needs me
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
Please, I threaten any cunt that begs for a burst mouth. Your bitch ass has been owned by me, why are you still here, did not you say that you were done? Want some more ass ripping? I can arrange that.
Sure sure , just happens that 100% of them are foreign . Nothing racist about that Mr white power ...
I came back , the game needs me
You failed to keep your word to stop posting here, You failed feminism. You failed high school. So, no, nobody needs you. Did you fail your "tests", yet?
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
Please, I threaten any cunt that begs for a burst mouth. Your bitch ass has been owned by me, why are you still here, did not you say that you were done? Want some more ass ripping? I can arrange that.
Sure sure , just happens that 100% of them are foreign . Nothing racist about that Mr white power ...
I came back , the game needs me
You failed to keep your word to stop posting here, You failed feminism. You failed high school. So, no, nobody needs you. Did you fail your "tests", yet?
None of that is on topic and has nothing to do with the "Refugee crisis in Europe" . You are horrible at this
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
Please, I threaten any cunt that begs for a burst mouth. Your bitch ass has been owned by me, why are you still here, did not you say that you were done? Want some more ass ripping? I can arrange that.
Sure sure , just happens that 100% of them are foreign . Nothing racist about that Mr white power ...
I came back , the game needs me
You failed to keep your word to stop posting here, You failed feminism. You failed high school. So, no, nobody needs you. Did you fail your "tests", yet?
None of that is on topic and has nothing to do with the "Refugee crisis in Europe" . You are horrible at this
Cry me a river, bitch. Funny how you put quotation marks around the name, not that you'll get it.
Failures of your caliber worldwide are responsible for this mass panic.
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
Please, I threaten any cunt that begs for a burst mouth. Your bitch ass has been owned by me, why are you still here, did not you say that you were done? Want some more ass ripping? I can arrange that.
Sure sure , just happens that 100% of them are foreign . Nothing racist about that Mr white power ...
I came back , the game needs me
You failed to keep your word to stop posting here, You failed feminism. You failed high school. So, no, nobody needs you. Did you fail your "tests", yet?
None of that is on topic and has nothing to do with the "Refugee crisis in Europe" . You are horrible at this
Cry me a river, bitch. Funny how you put quotation marks around the name, not that you'll get it.
Failures of your caliber worldwide are responsible for this mass panic.
Still not really on topic . Try again
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This is quite the dick measuring contest...
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
Please, I threaten any cunt that begs for a burst mouth. Your bitch ass has been owned by me, why are you still here, did not you say that you were done? Want some more ass ripping? I can arrange that.
Sure sure , just happens that 100% of them are foreign . Nothing racist about that Mr white power ...
I came back , the game needs me
You failed to keep your word to stop posting here, You failed feminism. You failed high school. So, no, nobody needs you. Did you fail your "tests", yet?
None of that is on topic and has nothing to do with the "Refugee crisis in Europe" . You are horrible at this
Cry me a river, bitch. Funny how you put quotation marks around the name, not that you'll get it.
Failures of your caliber worldwide are responsible for this mass panic.
Still not really on topic . Try again
Wow, I feel sorry for all of your teachers. Fine, I'll throw you a bone;
Funny how you put quotation marks around the name, not that you'll get it.
Go fetch, dog!
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i agree with monty, the UN needs to bomb the poor people in bagladesh
Naawww , somebody needs a "safe room" with adult colouring books and blankets
Says the bitch-ass who's been crying because people called him names for 10+ pages...
Coming from the guy who threatens to beat up immigrants in the ghetto he lives in . Surprised you have time to post on SLAP with all the
Soldiers of Odin and PEGIDA Night patrols and meetings you go to
Please, I threaten any cunt that begs for a burst mouth. Your bitch ass has been owned by me, why are you still here, did not you say that you were done? Want some more ass ripping? I can arrange that.
Sure sure , just happens that 100% of them are foreign . Nothing racist about that Mr white power ...
I came back , the game needs me
You failed to keep your word to stop posting here, You failed feminism. You failed high school. So, no, nobody needs you. Did you fail your "tests", yet?
None of that is on topic and has nothing to do with the "Refugee crisis in Europe" . You are horrible at this
Cry me a river, bitch. Funny how you put quotation marks around the name, not that you'll get it.
Failures of your caliber worldwide are responsible for this mass panic.
Still not really on topic . Try again
Wow, I feel sorry for all of your teachers. Fine, I'll throw you a bone;
Funny how you put quotation marks around the name, not that you'll get it.
Go fetch, dog!
Still not really on topic . Try again
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Can't help but picture Yosimite Sam throwing a tantrum whenever Ikobrakai posts lol!
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Can't help but picture Yosimite Sam throwing a tantrum whenever Ikobrakai posts lol!
Fuck, im not gonna get that out of my head now haha
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Can't help but picture Yosimite Sam throwing a tantrum whenever Ikobrakai posts lol!
Fuck, im not gonna get that out of my head now haha
Why, thank you!
I'm so fucking aligned with the spirit of the Universe, the elements of nature are affected by me. Also, people can't get the images of me out of their heads.
I came as a refugee to Sweden and thanks to Monty's tax dollars (SEK) I have surpassed the inbred person a long time ago. I took his land and might fuck his bitch too. Total Anschluss!
Poor fucker must be pissed as fuck...
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Can't help but picture Yosimite Sam throwing a tantrum whenever Ikobrakai posts lol!
Fuck, im not gonna get that out of my head now haha
Why, thank you!
I'm so fucking aligned with the spirit of the Universe, the elements of nature are affected by me. Also, people can't get the images of me out of their heads.
I came as a refugee to Sweden and thanks to Monty's tax dollars (SEK) I have surpassed the inbred person a long time ago. I took his land and might fuck his bitch too. Total Anschluss!
Poor fucker must be pissed as fuck...
I'll take 2 of whatever it is you're on...
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Can't help but picture Yosimite Sam throwing a tantrum whenever Ikobrakai posts lol!
Fuck, im not gonna get that out of my head now haha
Why, thank you!
I'm so fucking aligned with the spirit of the Universe, the elements of nature are affected by me. Also, people can't get the images of me out of their heads.
I came as a refugee to Sweden and thanks to Monty's tax dollars (SEK) I have surpassed the inbred person a long time ago. I took his land and might fuck his bitch too. Total Anschluss!
Poor fucker must be pissed as fuck...
Funny, I thought of Yosemite National Park for some reason and the thought process did not stop there... My creative mind amazes me.
Sorry, no drugs for you, Dirtymac. Just a dose of awesomeness. Maybe two.
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Can't help but picture Yosimite Sam throwing a tantrum whenever Ikobrakai posts lol!
Fuck, im not gonna get that out of my head now haha
Why, thank you!
I'm so fucking aligned with the spirit of the Universe, the elements of nature are affected by me. Also, people can't get the images of me out of their heads.
I came as a refugee to Sweden and thanks to Monty's tax dollars (SEK) I have surpassed the inbred person a long time ago. I took his land and might fuck his bitch too. Total Anschluss!
Poor fucker must be pissed as fuck...
Funny, I thought of Yosemite National Park for some reason and the thought process did not stop there... My creative mind amazes me.
Sorry, no drugs for you, Dirtymac. Just a dose of awesomeness. Maybe two.
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man...adieu my aloof friend, adeiu
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(http://i.imgur.com/xnyk9J0.jpg)
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Austrian Pals is this as bad as it looks?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/austrian-far-right-wins-first-round-presidential-election-norbert-hofer?CMP=share_btn_fb (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/24/austrian-far-right-wins-first-round-presidential-election-norbert-hofer?CMP=share_btn_fb)
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well, its fucking bad, but theres two things to consider:
he hasnt won yet, theres gonna be a second voting between him and basically his complete opposite, and i still have a small piece of hope left that austrians dont fuck it up completely.
and the title of "president" in austria isnt as powerful as it might suggest, not comparable to the US for example. in reality he mostly acts as the international representative of our country. and having a far right asshole doing that job might actually portray this country better than expected, at least my fellow countrymen then wont be able to defend themselves with the good old "i am not racist but.." statement.
but no matter what comes, and as much as i hope that this guy wont make it, the more important votes are gonna be coming up, when its up to decide who is actually gonna rule the country, and judging by this vote its gonna be the far right again. we already had those in leading positions in the last few years, and they fucked up every area financially and economically.
its heartbreaking to see how incredibly immune to history people over here are.
(fun fact, not sure if thats in the news that you posted: Norbert Hofer is part of a fraternity that basically sees austria just as a part of germany, denying the countrys right to exist on its own. so if he wins, he is president of a country he denies. gotta love it.)
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Norbert Hofer also believes in chemtrails. No bs.
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its also this usual "look at him, he looks nice, young and sweet" thing, until you actually hear that guy talk and realize how damn aggressive he is.
i expected him to be first, but way closer than it turned out.
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gonna hold off on reading about this and wait for john oliver to call him a bad guy on tv, make him a meme. it's 2016
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From this Facebook page ran from locals near a detention center, who support immigrants
https://www.facebook.com/solidarityplatanos/posts/1178163325557399?fref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/solidarityplatanos/posts/1178163325557399?fref=nf)
"Yesterday, the Greek and Dutch ministers of immigration payed a visit to the detention centre of Moria on the island of Lesvos. Tension sparked when the ministers entered the unaccompanied minors department and some young men asked them if Europe wil ever open the borders for them. The reply of the Dutch minister was a desicive and rude "no". Anger spread out and some teenagers sprayed with him water. Greek riot police answered with a really violent attack, beating at least 2 minors. That incident provoked a full uprising with young refugees throwing stones at the police, lighting fires and taking over the sector. New police forces arrived and with the extensive use of tear gas they managed to control the situation. Sources speak of at least 20 injured refugees, 2 of them with broken legs.
The conditions inside the detention centre remain horrible. 3500 are stranded there, most of them are sleeping outside on the ground without even a blanket, without any care for the sick, the children or pregnant women. The only information about their current status or possible fate is that authorities are preparing a new deportation to Turkey."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu6vnCOtwZk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu6vnCOtwZk)
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The latest batch of news from Eurostat on asylum seekers, if anyone's interested. Published in March 2016, data for 2015)
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7203832/3-04032016-AP-EN.pdf (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7203832/3-04032016-AP-EN.pdf)
There's also this on approved protected status
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7233417/3-20042016-AP-EN.pdf (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/7233417/3-20042016-AP-EN.pdf)
Stats explained
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_quarterly_report (http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_quarterly_report)
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers-a6971111.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/switzerland-shocked-by-muslim-teens-who-refused-to-shake-hands-with-female-teachers-a6971111.html)
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It's widespread practice for schoolchildren in Switzerland to shake the hands of their teacher at the beginning and end of each day. Now, one school's decision to exempt two children from this tradition � because the children are Muslim and their teacher is a woman � has caused a storm of controversy across the European state.
The two pupils at the school in the town of Therwil, near Basel, had requested an exemption from shaking a female teacher's hand, citing their belief that it would go against Islamic teachings. The local school district later came up with what they felt was an acceptable compromise that could avoid discrimination: The pupils, who are aged 14 and 15, would not be required to shake any teacher's' hands, whether they were male or female.
However, the plan hit a hitch when the Schweiz am Sonntag reported on it, sparking a public debate about the compromise. "We cannot accept this in the name of religious freedom," Swiss Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said in an interview with Swiss-German broadcaster SRF. "The handshake is part of our culture.�
Others agreed. "Today's it's the handshake and what will it be tomorrow?" Felix Mueri, a member of the anti-immigration Swiss People's Party and head of the Swiss parliament's education commission, said in an interview with the 20 Minuten news site.
Both the Swiss Teacher's Union and the local Therwil council have also come out against the plan. However, the school itself has defended the decision, despite the controversy. �They are no longer allowed to shake the hand of any teacher, male or female," headmaster Jurg Lauener told SRF, "For us, that addresses the question of discrimination.�
The Swiss Muslim community has largely suggested that the boys are misinterpreting Islamic teachings with their refusal to shake their teachers hands. "[To] the students and parents I would suggest to the following reflection: Can the denial of shaking hands be more important than the Islamic commandment of mutual respect?" Dr. Montassar Ben Mrad, president of Federation of Islamic Organizations in Switzerland, said in the statement.
However, another group suggested that the backlash to the boys was overblown. "One would think that the continued existence of Switzerland's core values was at stake, when this particular case in fact involves just two high school students who have said they wish to greet their teacher in a different way than with a handshake," a statement from the Islamic Central Council of Switzerland said.
I see they are enriching the society already. Hopefully the people from the article criticizing the policy change have already been arrested for their hate crimes against Islam.
Have you researched at all why they don't shake hands with women? Its not because they don't respect women. Its because they see touching women at all as potentially sexual and disrespectful. Not shaking hands with women to them is a sign of respect, acknowledging that you don't have a right to touch them. Its considered a sign of humility and chastity.
I'll admit that, as a Westerner, I also thought the only possible reason for this was to disrespect women, but you should at least investigate before drawing that conclusion. Islamic and Western culture are very different and often misunderstood by each other.
Westerners going to Japan shake hands and bow when meeting new people / doing business . Japanese used to only bow but now when western people / business is more common they shake and bow
Westerners going to the middle east try to respect the culture by not for example shaking hands with women , western woman wearing hijabs and not drinking in public
A muslim not shaking hands with a western woman in a western country / culture is disrespectful by automatic . Just the act of not shaking hands with the woman means its disrespectful no matter what the reason
Its a sign of mutal respect between people in the west to shake the hand no matter what sex or race
Its also a example of the oppression of women in muslim culture . Women have to cover them selfs up , cant drive , cant leave the house alone or meet a man by themselves . Cause they cant control their actions
Yes in Saudia Arabia women cant drive but they can in soooo many other countries that are Muslim... I'm not Muslim but was raised as one and became an athiest. I won't deny that there is A LOT OF SEXISM in Islam and some people take that shit literal. I've seen both sides of being backward and people choosing to interpret Islam in the year 2016. I know you're gonna post a slew of articles about repressed women in muslim societies but you ALWAYS fail to ignore the millions of Muslims who interpret Islam in a non-literal way
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Why is it that liberals literally cannot contain both of the following thoughts in their heads simultaneously?
1.)There are huge major human rights issues throughout many countries where Islam is the dominant religion, and polling often indicates that beliefs of many Muslims are at the very least... troubling. (http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-topline1.pdf)
2.)The above statement is not true of every person who considers themselves to be a Muslim.
Seems pretty straight forward, so what's the problem?
Just stop and think about this example for a second - In Mecca, Islam's holiest city, many people have recently been beheaded. In most cases in public in broad daylight. Often with a sword. Christianity has many, many issues, but I would hope we can all agree this would not be something that would not happen in the 21st century in Vatican City, right?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/man-who-filmed-woman-being-publicly-beheaded-in-mecca-reportedly-arrested-in-saudi-arabia-9988062.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/man-who-filmed-woman-being-publicly-beheaded-in-mecca-reportedly-arrested-in-saudi-arabia-9988062.html)
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/10/breaking-28-muslims-beheaded-by-saudi-officials-over-holy-mecca-stampede-shock-video/ (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/10/breaking-28-muslims-beheaded-by-saudi-officials-over-holy-mecca-stampede-shock-video/)
To add to the thread, here's 4 examples of people recently hacked to death for expressing opinions in Bangladesh, the country with the third largest Muslim population:
http://www.daily-sun.com/post/126814/Religious-militants-behind-JnU-student-murder (http://www.daily-sun.com/post/126814/Religious-militants-behind-JnU-student-murder)
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/professor-hacked-death-bangladesh-160423075449570.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/professor-hacked-death-bangladesh-160423075449570.html)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36128729 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36128729)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/world/asia/hindu-tailor-once-jailed-for-slurring-prophet-is-hacked-to-death.html?_r=2 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/world/asia/hindu-tailor-once-jailed-for-slurring-prophet-is-hacked-to-death.html?_r=2)
If it makes you feel good, you can keep pretending there are no differences between any culture or any religion. For the rest of us, we'll stick to reality. Wanting to help refugees is a very noble goal, but I'm afraid the subject has exposed many liberals unwillingness to look at this subject in an unbiased manner. I hope it all works out for Europe in the end, but if I had to guess, I would guess that along with making many more insane cultural accommodations(like the above, that they would never do for any other religion), many more attacks are likely to happen in the following years - check out the numbers from 2015:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks#2015 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks#2015)
Anyway, good luck Euros. I truly hope it all works out, as I'd love to visit soon.
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Wait, who in Europe is denying that there are huge human rights issues in Muslim countries?
I would guess that along with making many more insane cultural accommodations(like the above, that they would never do for any other religion
The only thing I see "above" are links to stories about beheadings or other killings. I'm sure you're not suggesting that the EU will legalize those practices, so what do you mean?
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The "above" was referring to the posts above, discussing Islamic schoolchildren refusing to shake their teacher's hand, because she is female. They were granted exception as a compromise that "avoided discrimination" - this taken alone, is a minor issue of course but the precedent it's setting is troubling. Let's check back after 10 years and see where Europe is at.
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Why is Sharia law such a impossible thing to imagine in the EU ? 300 years ago or so it was the norm to have a king who ruled countries . things have changed drastic with elections and different political parties
Why would it be impossible to have sharia law in 200 years ? or so ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/07/finnish-was-the-second-language-of-sweden-for-centuries-now-arabic-is-overtaking-it/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/07/finnish-was-the-second-language-of-sweden-for-centuries-now-arabic-is-overtaking-it/)
http://www.expressen.se/gt/vagrade-skaka-hand--far-30-000-i-skadestand/ (http://www.expressen.se/gt/vagrade-skaka-hand--far-30-000-i-skadestand/)
Muslim hired for a job , boss was a female swede . Muslim refused to shake hands with boss or any other female . He was let go from the job and sued . got 3k euros for work discrimination
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/mp-politikern-petas--tar-inte-kvinnor-i-hand/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/mp-politikern-petas--tar-inte-kvinnor-i-hand/)
Yasri Khan was on the fast track to becoming one of the higher ups in Miljopartiet , until SVT broke that he does not shake hands with females . When it broke there was huge press about it and debates . Dude quit and is now claiming he was discriminated against and it would not happen if he was a white guy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-belgium-became-the-hub-of-terrorism-in-europe/2016/03/22/9b729164-f042-11e5-a61f-e9c95c06edca_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-belgium-became-the-hub-of-terrorism-in-europe/2016/03/22/9b729164-f042-11e5-a61f-e9c95c06edca_story.html)
Belgium has seen a larger share of its Muslim population leave to fight in Syria than has any other Western country. The Molenbeek district of Brussels, the capital, is a particularly fertile breeding ground for militants, including several involved in the Paris attacks that killed 130 people last year.
If you went into Molenbeek district or any of the suburbs in France who have high number of muslim population how many would be for a Sharia law change ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/04/labour-plunged-into-fresh-race-row-as-london-mayoral-candidate-s/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/04/labour-plunged-into-fresh-race-row-as-london-mayoral-candidate-s/)
Heres the future mayor of London ( Maybe ) calling moderate muslims " Uncle Toms "
Speaking to ITV London News, Mr Khan acknowledged that the comment had been an offensive racial slur.
He said: "It is, and I regret using that phrase.
"The context was me trying to encourage everyone to get involved in government consultations.
"I was a minister at the time. It was wrong and I regret it."
Already you have people / politicians putting their religion / sharia law above the laws and customs of the western countries they live in .
Why is Sharia law such a impossibility ?
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Some muslim somewhere is linking killings in American schools or bombings in Yugoslavian, Iraqi hospitals and schools and saying that white people are degenerates. My stance is that highlighting the bads of each culture trying to convey who is the most evil, you are just producing more evil. Stop this Circle Jerking of Evil. Western Culture is as bad as Muslim culture, the thing is that western culture is master in hiding its bads under the rug and higlighting tha bads of others (which is easier when you are the dominant culture).
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Nick, the Swiss also voted to ban the building of minarets, so it's not like they're completely accommodating Muslims.
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Some muslim somewhere is linking killings in American schools or bombings in Yugoslavian, Iraqi hospitals and schools and saying that white people are degenerates.
Great analogy! Especially since Islam is a race. Criticism of it is racist. However, if they want to make those arguments about Neocons they should, it's true. Again, fact based.
My stance is that highlighting the bads of each culture trying to convey who is the most evil, you are just producing more evil. Stop this Circle Jerking of Evil. Western Culture is as bad as Muslim culture, the thing is that western culture is master in hiding its bads under the rug.
Hilarious. Now just to play devil's advocate. What if you took the opposite opinion, and expressed it in Bangladesh? What would happen if you tried to be openly gay in many Muslim-dominate countries? What happens if you leave the Islamic faith in many of these countries? Or even say something negative about it? How would that compare to any western country?
I wouldn't for a second defend our foreign policy, but if the question is comparing culture, rights, or freedom... Come on dude.
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Yeah you are right in individual terms. However I would like to put in that equation how many countries and civilians were bombed by western countries and how many by muslim. We are talking about massive killings of innocent people. So next try you put that shit of thought out, Imagine being a working man in Iraq, or a mother in Serbia in the 90s and having a bomb killing you for games of power the western elites play. Then think how much of an ass you are. Not better than Muslims killing gays if you ask me.
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I'm strongly against any bombings that kill innocent civilians, but again that's a foreign policy topic. Start another thread if you like, I'll gladly join you in pointing out the countless errors and crimes committed by the West throughout the centuries.
I'm also strongly against say stoning to death a rape victim. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_Aisha_Ibrahim_Duhulow)
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Some muslim somewhere is linking killings in American schools or bombings in Yugoslavian, Iraqi hospitals and schools and saying that white people are degenerates. My stance is that highlighting the bads of each culture trying to convey who is the most evil, you are just producing more evil. Stop this Circle Jerking of Evil. Western Culture is as bad as Muslim culture, the thing is that western culture is master in hiding its bads under the rug and higlighting tha bads of others (which is easier when you are the dominant culture).
All nations have dark sides and there's no superior culture. Integration works much better in the West, we would all move to the Emirates if it weren't for their batshit crazy religious laws. They think we're dirty slobs because we are, no culture.
Emirates have dick washers after you take a piss, the entire Western world walks off with a urine drip in their pants
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I'm strongly against any bombings that kill innocent civilians, but again that's a foreign policy topic. Start another thread if you like, I'll gladly join you in pointing out the countless errors and crimes committed by the West throughout the centuries.
I'm also strongly against say stoning to death a rape victim. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_Aisha_Ibrahim_Duhulow)
this specific example was done by a militant group and bystanders attemped to stop it and were shot in the process..... i know you're gonna rebutle with examples of muslims who do agree with this that aren't militants but again with your mentality you won't focus on the millions of muslims who condemn this kinda bullshit.
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/06/syrian-refugee-camp-bombing-airstrikes-sarmada-un-msf (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/06/syrian-refugee-camp-bombing-airstrikes-sarmada-un-msf)
"The bombing of a Syrian refugee camp that left dozens of civilians dead and wounded and was blamed on the government of Bashar al-Assad “could amount to a war crime”, the UN humanitarian chief has said.
The airstrikes on Thursday afternoon near Sarmada, a town in Idlib province just 12 miles away from Reyhanli in Turkey, left the camp in ruins, with one witness describing a scene of horror, with tents on fire and body parts strewn around the area."
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I'm strongly against any bombings that kill innocent civilians, but again that's a foreign policy topic. Start another thread if you like, I'll gladly join you in pointing out the countless errors and crimes committed by the West throughout the centuries.
I'm also strongly against say stoning to death a rape victim. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning_of_Aisha_Ibrahim_Duhulow)
was it not western countries' foreign policies that created all this mayhem? why would an arab bother to travel all the way to america to commit suicide? why did all these refugees from asia leave their homes and land?
its exactly this, foreign policies causing hell to their targets and as backlash, hell to the creators of these policies.
all the trouble that these refugees are going through and the trouble that certain "refugee welcoming" countries are going to go through is directly linked to foreign policies followed by countries that want to take advantage of the whole world.
muslim laws (and pretty much every religion's laws) are full of shit. its just that most muslims (the ones who live in muslim dominated countries) are illiterate and poor and thus follow their religion to the letter and the daftness of their religion shows more than the christian one does.
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Why is Sharia law such a impossible thing to imagine in the EU ? 300 years ago or so it was the norm to have a king who ruled countries . things have changed drastic with elections and different political parties
Why would it be impossible to have sharia law in 200 years ? or so ?
Oh, I dont know, may because of this new trend called separation between state and church?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/07/finnish-was-the-second-language-of-sweden-for-centuries-now-arabic-is-overtaking-it/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/07/finnish-was-the-second-language-of-sweden-for-centuries-now-arabic-is-overtaking-it/)
Great link there, buddy. Who could have imagined that the rising number of arabic immigrants is proportional to the rising number of arabic speaker? Must be shocking news to idiots who managed to fail math...
Another insightful quote from the same article:
"Sveriges Radio, the country's publicly funded radio broadcaster, recently announced it would broadcast a talk show in Arabic. "
Not like they have done it in the past... I still remember news in Russian broadcasting on the very same chanel in 1999.
http://www.expressen.se/gt/vagrade-skaka-hand--far-30-000-i-skadestand/ (http://www.expressen.se/gt/vagrade-skaka-hand--far-30-000-i-skadestand/)
Muslim hired for a job , boss was a female swede . Muslim refused to shake hands with boss or any other female . He was let go from the job and sued . got 3k euros for work discrimination
So? This just happened in the US and A:
Game Industry Panel Cancelled at College for Not Including Enough Diversity - AlphaOmegaSin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99OV3RtvWY4#)
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/mp-politikern-petas--tar-inte-kvinnor-i-hand/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/mp-politikern-petas--tar-inte-kvinnor-i-hand/)
Yasri Khan was on the fast track to becoming one of the higher ups in Miljopartiet , until SVT broke that he does not shake hands with females . When it broke there was huge press about it and debates . Dude quit and is now claiming he was discriminated against and it would not happen if he was a white guy
Funny that the regular crybaby Khan was a bigshot in the party your dumb ass voted for...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-belgium-became-the-hub-of-terrorism-in-europe/2016/03/22/9b729164-f042-11e5-a61f-e9c95c06edca_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-belgium-became-the-hub-of-terrorism-in-europe/2016/03/22/9b729164-f042-11e5-a61f-e9c95c06edca_story.html)
Belgium has seen a larger share of its Muslim population leave to fight in Syria than has any other Western country. The Molenbeek district of Brussels, the capital, is a particularly fertile breeding ground for militants, including several involved in the Paris attacks that killed 130 people last year.
If you went into Molenbeek district or any of the suburbs in France who have high number of muslim population how many would be for a Sharia law change ?
So fucking what? Retards in Middle East are still retards in Europe. You can't flee stupidity.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/04/labour-plunged-into-fresh-race-row-as-london-mayoral-candidate-s/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/04/labour-plunged-into-fresh-race-row-as-london-mayoral-candidate-s/)
Heres the future mayor of London ( Maybe ) calling moderate muslims " Uncle Toms "
Speaking to ITV London News, Mr Khan acknowledged that the comment had been an offensive racial slur.
He said: "It is, and I regret using that phrase.
"The context was me trying to encourage everyone to get involved in government consultations.
"I was a minister at the time. It was wrong and I regret it."
Already you have people / politicians putting their religion / sharia law above the laws and customs of the western countries they live in .
Why is Sharia law such a impossibility ?
It's called common sense, but I understand that it is hard for you to grasp the concept...
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"Don't go out after sunset or you'll be raped" - Swedish Police Chief advises girls: "Stay at home" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLCWbrWqe1Y#)
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https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/uk-1400-non-muslim-children-exploited-by-muslim-rape-gangs-authorities-did-nothing-for-fear-of-being-thought-as-racist (https://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/08/uk-1400-non-muslim-children-exploited-by-muslim-rape-gangs-authorities-did-nothing-for-fear-of-being-thought-as-racist)
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Oh, I dont know, may because of this new trend called separation between state and church?
Great link there, buddy. Who could have imagined that the rising number of arabic immigrants is proportional to the rising number of arabic speaker? Must be shocking news to idiots who managed to fail math...
So fucking what? Retards in Middle East are still retards in Europe. You can't flee stupidity.
It's called common sense, but I understand that it is hard for you to grasp the concept...
You are only proving that my points are true . More and more middle eastern people coming to Europe . People who believe in sharia law and wants Europe to become like the place they are leaving . So while we have separation of church and state now . Things can change quick
All it takes is for the majority to vote for politicians who want sharia law and ofcourse the EU scared of offending muslims will allow it
As for common sense , you have people in Europe / Sweden growing up with free healthcare , free school , free dental and social welfare and still travelling to Syria to blow themselves up
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Monte is correct.
Now shut the fuck up and end this shit show of a thread
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http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/we-understand-what-theyre-feeling-syrian-refugees-in-calgary-step-up-to-help-fort-mcmurray-fire-evacuees (http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/we-understand-what-theyre-feeling-syrian-refugees-in-calgary-step-up-to-help-fort-mcmurray-fire-evacuees)
"Khanchet and her family know first-hand how scary it is to leave a community, home and possessions behind, and she was determined to help the people of Fort McMurray.
“It’s not easy to lose everything. We can understand them more than anyone in Canada. We were in the same situation,” said Khanchet, who lives in Calgary.
“Me and my family wanted to do something for these people. Canadian society helped us when we came to Canada.”"
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Oh, I dont know, may because of this new trend called separation between state and church?
Great link there, buddy. Who could have imagined that the rising number of arabic immigrants is proportional to the rising number of arabic speaker? Must be shocking news to idiots who managed to fail math...
So fucking what? Retards in Middle East are still retards in Europe. You can't flee stupidity.
It's called common sense, but I understand that it is hard for you to grasp the concept...
You are only proving that my points are true .
Do you know what "to prove" means?
More and more middle eastern people coming to Europe .
Yes, we know that.
People who believe in sharia law and wants Europe to become like the place they are leaving . So while we have separation of church and state now . Things can change quick
Not really, since that Khan fucker got chopped. That other Turkish fucker also got chopped for hanging out with a bunch of backwards ass cunts.
All it takes is for the majority to vote for politicians who want sharia law and ofcourse the EU scared of offending muslims will allow it
Oh, yes, sounds easy to install Sharia Laws. All you need to do is:
1) Form a party that wants to install Sharia Law, we can call it Villain.
2) Get every single muslim to vote for Villain.
3) Avoid losing to opposing nazi parties like NSF, Nordfront, SD, that will gather populariy due to the mere existens of Villain.
4) Gather more votes than established big parties like M and S.
5) Win.
6) Form a government.
7) Propose Sharia Laws.
8) Win over opposition.
9) Install Sharia Laws.
Sounds easy enough....
As for common sense , you have people in Europe / Sweden growing up with free healthcare , free school , free dental and social welfare and still travelling to Syria to blow themselves up
Common sense of the average citizen, Monty, get your shit together. Idiots will still be idiots, free healthcare or not.
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Not really, since that Khan fucker got chopped. That other Turkish fucker also got chopped for hanging out with a bunch of backwards ass cunts.
Yeah but these were still people who were in the party for years . And they were known and held some power in the party and the government.
Mehmet Kaplan was Minister for Housing and Urban Development . You had another Swedish politician who had to step down after inviting former AQ supporter and Bin Ladins former mentor into Sweden to speak to Swedish Muslims .
http://www.thelocal.se/20160428/green-party-politician-invited-bin-ladens-mentor-to-malm (http://www.thelocal.se/20160428/green-party-politician-invited-bin-ladens-mentor-to-malm)
Oh, yes, sounds easy to install Sharia Laws. All you need to do is:
Sure sure , all good points . But the Nazis still managed to grab power . Iran , Afghanistan , Iraq and many other Muslim countries were once moderate and still religion won . Kings and Queens stepped down when the people wanted it . Sure blood had to be spilled but its not muslims who want sharia law are afraid to spill blood
Politicians will do anything to get elected . You see with MP how they let Muslims with extreme views get into higher posts in the party just to grab more Muslim votes and to seem more liberal
You guys say time after time that its only a small amount of muslims who are extremist / terrorist . There are billions of Muslims . Yet they let these small groups controle their Mosques and their countries without putting up much of a fight . Look at ISIS now . What Muslim countries are fighting a active campaign against them ? several of these countries have big armies yet its the " evil west " who is doing the majority of the work
Iran is a great example of a majority of moderate Muslims controlled by Muslim with extreme views and Shari law . Where little girls cant ride tricycles cause some Iman is against it
Anyways ....
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/han-vill-ha-sarskilda-boenden-for-kristna/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/han-vill-ha-sarskilda-boenden-for-kristna/)
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/du-har-lamnat-islam-da-vet-du-att-vi-har-ratt-att-doda-dig/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/du-har-lamnat-islam-da-vet-du-att-vi-har-ratt-att-doda-dig/)
New News story from Expressen reporting on how Atheist and Christians at refugee centres are getting assaulted , harassed and receiving death threats from the Muslim refugees they are living with . Several of them are fearing for their lives and dont want to live
with the other Muslim refugees and want go to Christian only refugee centres
The second article has the headline You have left Islam ,you know we have the right to kill you now
And heres another " common sense " news story
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3576547/Mosques-ban-Muslim-women-wearing-trousers-leaving-house-without-husband-s-permission-order-close-Facebook-accounts.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3576547/Mosques-ban-Muslim-women-wearing-trousers-leaving-house-without-husband-s-permission-order-close-Facebook-accounts.html)
Muslim women should not wear trousers, leave the house without their husband's permission or use Facebook, according to controversial rules published by British mosques.
The Green Lane Masjid in Birmingham said that women were not allowed to wear trousers, even in front of their husbands, while the Central Masjid of Blackburn called Facebook a 'sin' and an 'evil'.
One Islamic organisation also stated that Muslim women must not leave the house without their husband's permission.
So thats in Birmingham ...
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THEY'RE LETTING THOSE PEOPLE BE MAYORS NOW? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The reason these cunts are acting this way is because you let them. It's been going on since the 90's, I already told you. If the Swedes and other Euros had any balls, all these fundamentalist fuckers would know their place. Just burst a couple of mouths and problem solved. Send those assholes back to their caves if they don't know how behave.
Stop pussyfooting around, chop the "refugees", keep the refugees.
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Separation of church and state was never fully realized anywhere. Like that time Giuliani defended sucking debris from mutilated baby genitals. Until babies started dropping with herpes everyone was fine with him defending 'religious freedom'. Sharia law is definitely a possible state of affairs, but a very remote one. It's tgood to be watchful but some of you seem to have read that Houellebecq novel and took it for a prophecy.
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THEY'RE LETTING THOSE PEOPLE BE MAYORS NOW? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How nice of you to jump in with such amazing comedy skills . Are you opening for Louis CK soon ?
Just to make it clear . You are ok with the Mayor of London one of the biggest cities in the world , calling Moderate muslims Uncle Toms ?
Uncle Tom
nounNORTH AMERICANderogatory
plural noun: Uncle Toms
a black man considered to be excessively obedient or servile to whites.
And you are ok with politicians not shaking hands with opposite sexes ? and denying the Armenian genocide and Jewish Holocaust ?
What about not shaking hands with a jew ? or a white / black person ?
The reason these cunts are acting this way is because you let them. It's been going on since the 90's, I already told you. If the Swedes and other Euros had any balls, all these fundamentalist fuckers would know their place. Just burst a couple of mouths and problem solved. Send those assholes back to their caves if they don't know how behave.
Stop pussyfooting around, chop the "refugees", keep the refugees.
So you admit and agree with me that we have a problem and that Sweden/ EU isnt really doing anything about it . And while its getting worse you still dont see a risk of muslims with extreme views and sharia law coming into play into the EU
even when we have had muslims with extreme views in power in the swedish goverment ?
wtf ?
And saying that the far right / racist and nazzi parties wont allow sharia law in the EU is just as bad as sharia law and muslim extremist . The far right is no better then them . The rise of these kinds of parties are not the answer
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So you admit and agree with me that we have a problem and that Sweden/ EU isnt really doing anything about it .
Well, dah...
And while its getting worse you still dont see a risk of muslims with extreme views and sharia law coming into play into the EU
Not really, since I'm familiar with the branch of probability. The retards that want to practice Sharia are doing so regardless of current legislation.
even when we have had muslims with extreme views in power in the swedish goverment ?
Aren't those fuckers getting the boot already? We already talked about three.
wtf ?
Yes, what the fuck, indeed? Fucking logic, how does it work?
And saying that the far right / racist and nazzi parties wont allow sharia law in the EU is just as bad as sharia law and muslim extremist . The far right is no better then them . The rise of these kinds of parties are not the answer
I was describing a hypothetical scenario where the distribution of votes would balance the power required to make bullshit amendments. Pay attention.
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Expand Quote
THEY'RE LETTING THOSE PEOPLE BE MAYORS NOW? WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How nice of you to jump in with such amazing comedy skills . Are you opening for Louis CK soon ?
Just to make it clear . You are ok with the Mayor of London one of the biggest cities in the world , calling Moderate muslims Uncle Toms ?
Expand Quote
Uncle Tom
nounNORTH AMERICANderogatory
plural noun: Uncle Toms
a black man considered to be excessively obedient or servile to whites.
And you are ok with politicians not shaking hands with opposite sexes ? and denying the Armenian genocide and Jewish Holocaust ?
What about not shaking hands with a jew ? or a white / black person ?
I.
Don't.
Fucking.
Care.
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He said he had received abuse and death threats from conservative and extremist Muslims after he voted in favour of gay marriage in parliament.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8c974c8e-1379-11e6-bb40-c30e3bfcf63b.html (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8c974c8e-1379-11e6-bb40-c30e3bfcf63b.html)
Voting in favour of gay marriage is such a typical extremist move...
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Expand Quote
He said he had received abuse and death threats from conservative and extremist Muslims after he voted in favour of gay marriage in parliament.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8c974c8e-1379-11e6-bb40-c30e3bfcf63b.html (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8c974c8e-1379-11e6-bb40-c30e3bfcf63b.html)
Voting in favour of gay marriage is such a typical extremist move...
I dont think Sadiq Khan is a extremist but he is a politician and will lie , cheat and say pretty much anything to get elected
He prob said it to get the votes from a certain type of muslims who dont like moderates . And he might vote for and support gay marrige for real . Or he just did it to gain votes with the liberals / gay voters
Only in Alans world are politicians somebody who you can trust .
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Shitty backpedaling from the resident Islamophobe. You brought up Khan's statement to show how dangerous the guy might be, not that he's a lying politician. Don't try and pretend that that's not the case. I simply gave evidence of one of his actions (not words) which is anything but extreme.
You prove once again that you're out of your depth.
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I dislike the talmud, quran and the bible.
Where does that put me alan?
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I dislike the talmud, quran and the bible.
Where does that put me alan?
Under the we dont give a fuck category..
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal)
(http://i.imgur.com/tgJqaKx.jpg)
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Shitty backpedaling from the resident Islamophobe. You brought up Khan's statement to show how dangerous the guy might be, not that he's a lying politician. Don't try and pretend that that's not the case. I simply gave evidence of one of his actions (not words) which is anything but extreme.
You prove once again that you're out of your depth.
Back-pedalling ? when have I ever done back-pedalling in this thread or another threat ? If Im wrong about something sure Ill admit it , but my stance has always been the same
Ive also said multiple times that ALL religion is bad and should go away , specially Islam . Does that make me a Christianophobe ? or Jewophobe ? .
Dont try to presume to know what Im talking about . You have shown time after time that what ever I say you make up your own narrative.
Much like claiming my hatred towards Muslim terrorists and extremists is " islamophobia "
And voting for legalisation of gay marriage is not a extreme thing ? Go to some countries in Africa , Middle east and Asia and have that standpoint and you could be thrown in jail , whipped , beaten with a stick or worse
You prove once again that you're out of your depth.
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And voting for legalisation of gay marriage is not a extreme thing ? Go to some countries in Africa , Middle east and Asia and have that standpoint and you could be thrown in jail , whipped , beaten with a stick or worse
How do even survive, Monty? You just fucked yourself over...
You prove once again that you're out of your depth.
I wouldn't try to be clever in your position.
Can somebody help this guy?
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Well for one, you started backpedaling when your own admission of being stupid was brought up. You should've stopped posting right there and then, instead of trying to reinterpret this post:
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get . Id just try to remind you guys again that this is just my opinion .
There's no going back from that. You're stupid and you know it, and you were stupid enough to admit it.
Another example of your stupidity and inability to argue properly:
And voting for legalisation of gay marriage is not a extreme thing ? Go to some countries in Africa , Middle east and Asia and have that standpoint and you could be thrown in jail , whipped , beaten with a stick or worse
Yes, voting for gay marriage in the British parliament is definitely not extreme. (And how is the situation in the Third World relevant to local British politics?)* The point was that his action is not something that an extreme Muslim would do, which is what you were trying to articulate by bringing up his Uncle Tom statement. Again, in athread where you've linked multiple negative stories on Muslims in Europe, you definitely didn't just randomly post the Khan link as an example of a lying politician. It's really sad to see a stupid person trying to backpedal.
*I mean, I understand how you fall for the populist rhetoric, it's full of red herrings, straw men, and other fallacies, but then you're probably better off on some other forum...
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Well for one, you started backpedaling when your own admission of being stupid was brought up. You should've stopped posting right there and then, instead of trying to reinterpret this post:
Is " Im not the smartest guy" a admition of being being stupid ? Who are the smartest guys in this world ? top scientists ? top profesors and teachers ? top doctors and so on ? what exactly doest " Im not the smartest guy " mean ?
Plenty of people playing in the NBA , NHL or any other sport can still say " Im not the best player in the world " that doesnt mean they suck
Are you Alan saying you are one of the smartest people in the world ? cause the statement " Im not the smartest " just means Im not the smartest person in the world if you go by % even if I was at the lower 60s 50s that would still make me smarter then 50% of the world
Infact if you were not in the top 00.1% of the world , leaving out the other 99.999% you can not say " Im the smartest person "
so pretty much everybody has to say " Im not the smartest person "
As for my High School education . It just proves you are stupid as shit as Ive explained time and time why I did what I did , and that I did graduate
It also shows how low of a person that you , a real scumbag for using personal insults in a debate . You act all high and mighty and try to prove how smart you are and then you cant even debate me in a adult and respectful manner .
You should give out more insults like you usually do . It only shows how immature and fucking stupid you are . You claim Im a idiot yet you cant even beat me in a debate without making up lies and trying to make it personal
And how is the situation in the Third World relevant to local British politics?
You are stupid as shit . The third world is not relevant to local British politics ? Well lets just take London in this case . NHS spending money on foreign nationals ? the amount of jobs in London and unemployment ( foreign people taking jobs ) Tourism and VISAs . More people from the EU moving to London / UK driving up the housing market .
Or what about the London Police budget ? how much should be spent on terrorist prevention or illegal immigration ?
London Tourism , how much they should spend on promoting London around the world
These are just some of the topics that ties in with local politics . Genital mutilation of female kids is a huge problem with immigrants from certain African countries . This is illegal in the EU / UK and London . And that ties in with a local British election
You dont think a UKIP style of party winning a german election would be relevant to anything dealing with the third world ?
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Hahahah, yes! There you go again!
Here you go, smart guy: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/256270/what-is-this-type-of-idiom-called-i-know-hes-not-the-smartest-person-in-the-w (http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/256270/what-is-this-type-of-idiom-called-i-know-hes-not-the-smartest-person-in-the-w)
But you knew that already. And you didn't mention your lack of diploma or inability to "get a lot of stuff" for no reason. You simply admitted that you're stupid and that you might no be capable of participating in an intelligent discussion. Everything else is just backpedaling.
You are stupid as shit . The third world is not relevant to local British politics ? Well lets just take London in this case . NHS spending money on foreign nationals ? the amount of jobs in London and unemployment ( foreign people taking jobs ) Tourism and VISAs . More people from the EU moving to London / UK driving up the housing market .
Hey, smart guy, the vote for gay marriage happened in England. You do know that, right? He's not some martyr crusader for gay rights in Uganda. But he's not a Muslim extremist either, which is what you were trying to say.
You act all high and mighty and try to prove how smart you are and then you cant even debate me in a adult and respectful manner .
Shut the fuck up with the fake politeness. You want the refugees to stay in or near war zones but get your feelings hurt if someone's not polite to you. Everything's ok as long as you're polite...
( foreign people taking jobs )
Oh yeah, give some more of that sweet, sweet xenophobia, right in my vein.
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But you knew that already. And you didn't mention your lack of diploma or inability to "get a lot of stuff" for no reason. You simply admitted that you're stupid and that you might no be capable of participating in an intelligent discussion. Everything else is just backpedaling.
Here we go again . Alan the genius / smartest in the world / psychic knows what I know and what I mean . You do have a talent for twisting words , making up lies and accusing people for things .
Hey, smart guy, the vote for gay marriage happened in England. You do know that, right? He's not some martyr crusader for gay rights in Uganda. But he's not a Muslim extremist either, which is what you were trying to say.
Just cause something is not controversial or extreme in the UK , doesnt mean its not controversial or extreme around the world .
Khan would most likely be in deep shit over his views on homosexuality in many Muslim countries .
Cannabis laws are changing alot in the USA and many other countries . But you can still get the death penalty in many other countries for it .
Shut the fuck up with the fake politeness. You want the refugees to stay in or near war zones but get your feelings hurt if someone's not polite to you. Everything's ok as long as you're polite...
Fake politeness ? how is it fake ?
The realities of the refugee crisis has no effect on the way you debate things online or in person . Just cause a debate is over a topic that is very serious doesnt mean you cant start yelling , threatening , insulting or assaulting the person with another view point
I never seen somebody say " This debate is about the death penalty , its a serious debate so if you want you can punch eachother "
Its a matter of intelligence that you can have a conversation / debate with somebody and discuss facts and opinions without having to use personal insults , threats and violence
It just shows what kind of person you are , you claim Im stupid , yet you cant make your point or debate me like a normal person .
Oh yeah, give some more of that sweet, sweet xenophobia, right in my vein.
Oh yeah cause no person with extreme views votes . Theres not a single party running for power who have racist or extremist views . All talk about politics and elections are JUST for the ones who are in the centre . Theres no debate at all about far right , far left or " immigrants taking jobs "
Im surprised you missed it but Trump who just recently became the republican candidate is running on a platform that mexicans are stealing jobs and raping women ...
but yeah , xenophobia has nothing to do with elections ... You make me laugh
You want the refugees to stay in or near war zones
More examples of how you try to trick people using false facts and lies .
Yes I want refugees to stay in or near war zones WITH full support of NATO / Human aid organisations / Military Power and governments supporting them with protection , food , homes , medical aid and a military offensive to end the conflict
Im shocked more people cant see through your bullshit agenda with lies lies lies
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Here we go again . Alan the genius / smartest in the world / psychic knows what I know and what I mean . You do have a talent for twisting words , making up lies and accusing people for things .
That the thing, I never claimed that I was a "genius / smartest in the world / psychic." But you did say that you're stupid. I didn't make up anything. I just quoted you, you dipshit. I think it's pretty funny that you don't realise that you did it yourself (unless, of course, you're backpedaling). I am sure that people would inevitably come to the same conclusion, but for you to personally come forward at the beginning of the thread is some Darwin Award shit.
Re: Khan, you tried to portray him as potentially dangerous because of his statement, I gave proof that he's not. The bit about the Third World is inconsequential. I was just pointing out how you're incapable of forming a coherent argument. But I'm sure you'll miss the point, again.
No, I don't care much for violence, unlike you. You seem to enjoy it. That's worrying, given your opinion on foreigners.
Im shocked more people cant see through your bullshit agenda with lies lies lies
I don't have an agenda, but I do think that refugees need our help and that it's not safe for them to stay in or around war zones. I'm not surprised that you think it's bullshit. Also not surprised that you're shocked that many in this thread agree with me.
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Jesus, Monty! You have lost every single argument that you have presented. I'm not even trying to be a dick. You miss every single point and take thing literally. It's like trying to explain to a 10 year old why we can't just print large quantities of money to solve a financial crisis. There is no room for debate with you.
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That the thing, I never claimed that I was a "genius / smartest in the world / psychic." But you did say that you're stupid. I didn't make up anything. I just quoted you
Show me the quote where I said Im Stupid . Saying Im not the smartest doesnt not mean that person is stupid . Should be easy just show me the quote . Unless you made it up like most of the stuff you say and made up shitty statistics and charts
Show me the quote
Khan, you tried to portray him as potentially dangerous because of his statement, I gave proof that he's not. The bit about the Third World is inconsequential. I was just pointing out how you're incapable of forming a coherent argument. But I'm sure you'll miss the point, again.
What proof ? that he voted for legalisation for gay marriage ?? that makes a person " not dangerous " ? Im sure with a quick google search we can find a homosexual serial killer who most likely would have voted for legalisation of gay marriage and was extremely dangerous
but for you to personally come forward at the beginning of the thread is some Darwin Award shit.
Darwin Awards is for people who
who have supposedly contributed to human evolution by selecting themselves out of the gene pool via death or sterilization by their own actions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_Awards
Once again you make up lies and facts .You change what the darwin award actually is and make it suit your skewed views
No, I don't care much for violence, unlike you. You seem to enjoy it. That's worrying, given your opinion on foreigners.
I care for violence ? when did I say that ? show me a quote . And what is my opinion on foreigners ? You say Im a racist and a
xenophobe yet where are the quotes and things Ive said that show me to be one ?
Time and time again I ask the people to show me quotes of me saying anything remotely racist and I get no reply
I don't have an agenda, but I do think that refugees need our help and that it's not safe for them to stay in or around war zones. I'm not surprised that you think it's bullshit. Also not surprised that you're shocked that many in this thread agree with me.
Who agrees with you ? iKobrakai ? hahahahaa
Its certainly not the voters , or the governments . Not a single country in the EU have expanded their intake of refugees , more and more people are building fences and walls . And trying to kick out more and more of them
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At what point are you guys going to realize that you just do not agree with each other?
Fucking comical its gone this far.
Or just keep it up so I can continue to laugh, either or.
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There's so much evidence in this thread of all the things you want proof of. Including the numerous times other users have argued the same things with you on this issue as I have. Just reread the thread. As for the stats, I trust Eurostat or other official bodies or quality press more than stories from DM or its Swedish counterparts, and have posted links from trusted sources. I'm not surprised that official statistics hurt your brain, as it's usually in conflict with the racist shit you lap up. You're free to cling on to the odd time where my info wasn't from a legit source, but it just makes you look desperate and stupid. I honestly don't care much for discussions with idiots, but it wouldn't be right to just let you post fearmongering crap unchecked.
Saying Im not the smartest doesnt not mean that person is stupid .
That's exactly what that idiom means, you fucking idiot.
By the way, understanding everything literally is a symptom of some sort of condition, e.g. Asperger's, so I probably shouldn't be too harsh on you. It's probably for the best if you stop posting, as was your decision not too long ago, remember?
Have fun watching UFC and thinking that you don't like violence.
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There's so much evidence in this thread of all the things you want proof of
Yes yes and yet you cant post any quotes of me saying anything xenophobic or racist .
Including the numerous times other users have argued the same things with you on this issue as I have
The same people calling me racist yet are unable to find any racist or xenophobic quotes ? . Fucking mob mentality right there
You're free to cling on to the odd time where my info wasn't from a legit source, but it just makes you look desperate and stupid
Like you look desperate and stupid using personal insults and calling me names like racist ? posting time after time my highschool education ? even though you know its not true ?
Atleast now you admit that you spread lies and false facts from none legit sources . Nice one
I honestly don't care much for discussions with idiots, but it wouldn't be right to just let you post fearmongering crap unchecked.
It wouldnt be right to just let you post that this refugee crisis has no negative effects at all and that we should open up the EU to fake refugees and criminals . Draining the system we have for real refugees and people who contribute to it
By the way, understanding everything literally is a symptom of some sort of condition, e.g. Asperger's, so I probably shouldn't be too harsh on you.
So you think I have a condition yet you feel its right to call me names ? You go around pushing people on cruches ? flip little kids out of wheel chairs ? .You pick on blind people too ? or just people with mental handicaps ? You above quote suggests you call people with Aspergers racists and idiots
thats a new low , even for you . Actually its not , You really do seem like a weak person who goes around bullying people with mental and physical handicaps
It's probably for the best if you stop posting, as was your decision not too long ago, remember?
I cant let people like you post false facts and information without getting checked .
Have fun watching UFC and thinking that you don't like violence.
UFC is a sport . 2 people agree to train hard and fight in a octagon with a referee . How does that relate to my feelings towards foreigners ? Are you suggesting people who like violent sports like ice hockey are racists who go out and beat up foreigners
And what was my stance on foreigners ? you didnt answer that question . Not surprised you have a history of dodging them
Oh guys btw . Alan is a homophobe . I cant find any quotes or proof of this . But since Alan is basicly calling me Racist and Xenophobe without proof . Well I guess its fair game
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http://www.msf.org/en/article/eu-migration-crisis-update-may-2016 (http://www.msf.org/en/article/eu-migration-crisis-update-may-2016)
Europe's restrictive policies put some of the world's most vulnerable people in more danger, causing more suffering, as they risk it all to try to bring themselves, and their families, to safety. European countries (and transit countries) have the responsibility to ensure their policies guarantee the right to seek asylum and respect fundamental rights and human dignity. So far, The EU's response to the crisis at and within its borders has catastrophically failed to address the urgent humanitarian and protection needs of refugees and migrants. It is now time for the EU and its member states to take stock of the last year, to invest in a coherent European reception system, and to put in place measures that will provide safe and legal channels for refugees and migrants to access the assistance and protection they are desperately seeking.
European countries are only accepting a small share of the total number of displaced: Most of the world's displaced people live elsewhere in their home countries or in the counties surrounding their home countries, relatively few are granted asylum elsewhere. For example, twelve million Syrians have been displaced by the ongoing conflict. Eight million have fled to other parts of Syria. Four million live as refugees in the countries that surround Syria, many of these countries are now overwhelmed (one in four people living in Lebanon are now Syrian refugees). One million people have reached Europe in 2015: that is less than 2% of the total number of European population and not an insurmountable challenge for a regional power such as European Union.
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There's so much evidence in this thread of all the things you want proof of
Yes yes and yet you cant post any quotes of me saying anything xenophobic or racist .
Any post will do to illustrate your xenophobic opinion. I have more respect for outspoken rasists than your coward flip-flipping.
Including the numerous times other users have argued the same things with you on this issue as I have
The same people calling me racist yet are unable to find any racist or xenophobic quotes ? . Fucking mob mentality right there
Oh, yeah, so different from pointing fingers and sharing opinions with evergrowing white thrash mob
You're free to cling on to the odd time where my info wasn't from a legit source, but it just makes you look desperate and stupid
Like you look desperate and stupid using personal insults and calling me names like racist ? posting time after time my highschool education ? even though you know its not true ?
We are deperate because your stupidity and fantastic ability to miss a point is a threat to humanity.
Atleast now you admit that you spread lies and false facts from none legit sources . Nice one
I honestly don't care much for discussions with idiots, but it wouldn't be right to just let you post fearmongering crap unchecked.
It wouldnt be right to just let you post that this refugee crisis has no negative effects at all and that we should open up the EU to fake refugees and criminals . Draining the system we have for real refugees and people who contribute to it
Easy there, upset redneck taxpayer. You know nothing about economics, and how the distribution of tax dollars works. http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05621.pdf (http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05621.pdf)
By the way, understanding everything literally is a symptom of some sort of condition, e.g. Asperger's, so I probably shouldn't be too harsh on you.
So you think I have a condition yet you feel its right to call me names ? You go around pushing people on cruches ? flip little kids out of wheel chairs ? .You pick on blind people too ? or just people with mental handicaps ? You above quote suggests you call people with Aspergers racists and idiots
thats a new low , even for you . Actually its not , You really do seem like a weak person who goes around bullying people with mental and physical handicaps
I don't think you qualify (http://www.autism.com/news_dsmV (http://www.autism.com/news_dsmV)). You are just plain old vanilla stupid. Hence the names. Stop fucking crying like a little bitch
It's probably for the best if you stop posting, as was your decision not too long ago, remember?
I cant let people like you post false facts and information without getting checked .
Have fun watching UFC and thinking that you don't like violence.
UFC is a sport . 2 people agree to train hard and fight in a octagon with a referee . How does that relate to my feelings towards foreigners ? Are you suggesting people who like violent sports like ice hockey are racists who go out and beat up foreigners
And what was my stance on foreigners ? you didnt answer that question . Not surprised you have a history of dodging them
Who else could see this very reply coming? You have a funny way of defending EVERYTHING, sound like a really secure person.
Oh guys btw . Alan is a homophobe . I cant find any quotes or proof of this . But since Alan is basicly calling me Racist and Xenophobe without proof . Well I guess its fair game
Unlike you, he's unlikely to cry about it for 20 pages.
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another return on frau merkel's investment:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/europe/germany-bavaria-knife-attack/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/europe/germany-bavaria-knife-attack/)
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^
bullshit.
the dude was a german, with german parents, and not even a muslim or religious at all. just a psycho tripped out on drugs being out of rehab for a few weeks.
if i could tell you how many fucktards think it's funny to yell allahu akhbar in online games, just for shits and giggles. now this dude is obviously mental but not because he was religious or a refugee.
i've witnessed the same thing with former drugged out acquaintances having fits of aggression were they would adopt slogans or extremist worldview. like a dude tripping out threatening to beat up everyone, screaming sieg heil and shit like that.
the correct headline would be "deranged drugged out psycho stabs several people, yells allahu akhbar for no real reason other than being a psycho".
in b4 "what if hes really a muslim and the media told lies?" well the dude will get asked questions about why he did yell allahu akhbar and they will
probably give him a hard time about it. i mean the asshole stabbed several people, killing one. fuck this guy. i'd say the same about anyone, also refugees, but this dude is not one.
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Yeah, I was going to say that the guy has been unemployed for two years, which means he was working before, which means that he was not part of the refugee wave, which means that skateordie's post is just some inflammatory, fearmongering bullshit.
Source: http://taz.de/ (http://taz.de/)!5303811/ (In German)
In other news from Germany, a guy who had a Hitler mustache and wore a German ww2 helmet with a swastika and attacked two Afghan refugees was sentenced to a year in prison.
http://taz.de/Nach-Stahlhelm-Angriff-auf-Fluechtlinge/ (http://taz.de/Nach-Stahlhelm-Angriff-auf-Fluechtlinge/)!5302263/ (Again, in German)
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and here's a report from our biggest news magazine about the right wing media and conspiracy theorists claiming it wasn't really a german but a known extremist that's supposedly been dead for a year.
http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/grafing-wie-aus-attentaeter-paul-h-ein-toter-islamist-wurde-a-1091797.html (http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/grafing-wie-aus-attentaeter-paul-h-ein-toter-islamist-wurde-a-1091797.html)
no english version yet, here's a rundown:
-this dude (http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/85/cd/e2/85cde2c79e67b16919cb7a0b0e46d5e4.jpg), who produces shitty eurotrash dance music, who is also a wannabe political theorists claims that it's a cover up and that the real perpetrator was not paul h., alleged german and stabbing asshole psycho, but rafik youssef, an islamist believed to be dead for a year now.
-other right wing media and hate groups on facebook of course jumped on it
-several people that know paul h. in person were practically forced to come out to the public and confirm that the stabber is actually paul h.
-the dude that made up the story still thinks the whole thing was valid from the start, says "at least my controversial claim helped to bring the truth out." even if truth means the opposite of what he claimed in the first place. what a dipshit.
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He's just a concerned citizen, not a racist!
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just thinking about the future of our kids, you know?
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Theres been a big hupla over 2 female cops being assulted . One got kicked repellently and the other got stabbed
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2016-05-11/mats-skogkar-om-gangen-far-styra-sviks-fororten (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2016-05-11/mats-skogkar-om-gangen-far-styra-sviks-fororten)
This follows the situation that Ambulance EMTs getting attacked , threatend and rocks thrown at them , and the same with the fire department also receiving threats and pelted by rocks , equipment sabotaged
https://tv.nrk.no/serie/dagsrevyen/NNFA03050816/08-05-2016#t=14m44s (https://tv.nrk.no/serie/dagsrevyen/NNFA03050816/08-05-2016#t=14m44s)
This is the norweigan report on the situation in Sweden . The camera team and interviewer got threatend multiple times , And the police they followed got attacked by rocks
Its in norweigan but has subtitles . Its quite eye opening over the situation in Sweden and how integration is a big fuck up
They also ran a story later with what they call " experts " saying that integration in Norway is much different then Sweden so
"Norwegians dont have to fear that this will happen in Norway "
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Yeah, I was going to say that the guy has been unemployed for two years, which means he was working before, which means that he was not part of the refugee wave, which means that skateordie's post is just some inflammatory, fearmongering bullshit.
Source: http://taz.de/ (http://taz.de/)!5303811/ (In German)
In other news from Germany, a guy who had a Hitler mustache and wore a German ww2 helmet with a swastika and attacked two Afghan refugees was sentenced to a year in prison.
http://taz.de/Nach-Stahlhelm-Angriff-auf-Fluechtlinge/ (http://taz.de/Nach-Stahlhelm-Angriff-auf-Fluechtlinge/)!5302263/ (Again, in German)
fear mongering? i apologize if my words scare you. my intention is not to give you nightmares, but rather to simply share the news. perhaps you should find some safe space-type forum to participate in if you're afraid of the freedom this forum permits?
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No. How bout you stop being a shitty troll?
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Expand Quote
Yeah, I was going to say that the guy has been unemployed for two years, which means he was working before, which means that he was not part of the refugee wave, which means that skateordie's post is just some inflammatory, fearmongering bullshit.
Source: http://taz.de/ (http://taz.de/)!5303811/ (In German)
In other news from Germany, a guy who had a Hitler mustache and wore a German ww2 helmet with a swastika and attacked two Afghan refugees was sentenced to a year in prison.
http://taz.de/Nach-Stahlhelm-Angriff-auf-Fluechtlinge/ (http://taz.de/Nach-Stahlhelm-Angriff-auf-Fluechtlinge/)!5302263/ (Again, in German)
fear mongering? i apologize if my words scare you. my intention is not to give you nightmares, but rather to simply share the news. perhaps you should find some safe space-type forum to participate in if you're afraid of the freedom this forum permits?
it's not news because what you wrote was wrong in the first place.
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german parliament is apparently having a vote on friday to claim morocco, tunisia and algeria as safe countries of origin, so we don't have to take in refugees from there anymore.
reason behind this is also that most refugees from there get denied asylum anyways, and i guess also to focus on refugees of the syrian conflict.
couldn't find an article about the vote itself, but it's mentioned in this german news article.
http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2016-05/tunesien-einsatz-extremisten-tote (http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2016-05/tunesien-einsatz-extremisten-tote)
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Theres been a big hupla over 2 female cops being assulted . One got kicked repellently and the other got stabbed
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2016-05-11/mats-skogkar-om-gangen-far-styra-sviks-fororten (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2016-05-11/mats-skogkar-om-gangen-far-styra-sviks-fororten)
This follows the situation that Ambulance EMTs getting attacked , threatend and rocks thrown at them , and the same with the fire department also receiving threats and pelted by rocks , equipment sabotaged
https://tv.nrk.no/serie/dagsrevyen/NNFA03050816/08-05-2016#t=14m44s (https://tv.nrk.no/serie/dagsrevyen/NNFA03050816/08-05-2016#t=14m44s)
This is the norweigan report on the situation in Sweden . The camera team and interviewer got threatend multiple times , And the police they followed got attacked by rocks
Lamest fucking report I've ever seen. They film some 15 year old punks, big fucking deal. "Oh, look! Some punks want to steal a camera, everybody, panic now!". The journalists have the same problems in England, cause by white English citizens. Check out "Benefit Street."
Its in norweigan but has subtitles . Its quite eye opening over the situation in Sweden and how integration is a big fuck up
Yes, so groundbreaking, I was shocked! Who could have thought that the hood is full of problems? Sure, some immigrants are involved into organized crime, but the real heavy hitters are still white HA/Bandidos/etc. They command the real power.
They also ran a story later with what they call " experts " saying that integration in Norway is much different then Sweden so
"Norwegians dont have to fear that this will happen in Norway "
Stupid Norwegians! Everybody knows that they should hire illiterate high school drop-out regular chefs, instead of these so called experts!
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Can you people please learn to quote each other correctly? A lot of these posts are unreadable.
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But they're a beautiful counterbalance to your bigoted bullshit.
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(https://i.imgur.com/OvV4oEg.png)
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http://www.bbc.com/news/36279977 (http://www.bbc.com/news/36279977)
"The international human system that deals with refugees is so "broken" that the UN has called a summit to address it.
But how did things get so bad? An explainer in numbers - featuring This Week's World presenter Emily Maitlis."
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It's okay bro, I'm sure all the surrounding Muslim-majority countries will be taking them in.
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If you only took the time to watch the segment, you'd realize that that's one of the points being made. The great majority of refugees do end up in the neighbouring countries, not only in the ME, but globally too. I'm sure that doesn't fit in the lunatic fringe narrative that the refugee crisis is a concerted Muslim effort to invade Europe, but them's the facts.
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I just don't know why majority-muslim countries, which are much closer in proximity and culture, aren't more welcoming to these refugees. If say Canada had a refugee crisis, I would think most of the refugees would end up in the US and Europe. If for some reason most of them wanted to go to Asia, I wouldn't call Japan racist for saying "hey um, not sure we can handle/house/etc a hundred thousand people who don't speak our language on our small Island right now." Or for saying things like, "okay you can move here but you need to assimilate to our culture and learn the language, and not just form mini-Canada(or mini-mecca, in Europe's example)." As long as some of you can at least be sympathetic to this line of thinking, I can meet you half way. It's just the smug and lazy dismissal of any kind of obvious problem this situation may bring about as racist hysteria, which is what is driving people to go the opposite route and support extremist right-wing ideologues. There are real concerns that any country would have when trying to figure out whats the best way to address this crisis.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CihZzRQWwAMW2WR.jpg)
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But there MIGHT be terrorists among them so it's acceptable collateral damage!
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I can't zoom out on the map, so I have to assume there are no Islamic countries nearby they could go to instead of braving a sea to head to a place where language/religon/culture are not shared.
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Angry Truck Driver Vs Syrian Refugees At Calais (Eng subtitles) | BuzzShare (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5_R_zQZ2sY#)
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(https://i.sli.mg/ejJFlR.png)
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^ so stupid- anyone can make a fake facebook profile.....
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(https://i.sli.mg/Apnydy.jpg)
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Pictured: Father who blamed police for not stopping his daughter joining ISIS screams 'burn USA' - and stands just feet from Lee Rigby's killer - at Muslim demo (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3015311/Pictured-Father-blamed-police-not-stopping-daughter-joining-ISIS-screams-burn-USA-stands-just-feet-Lee-Rigby-s-killer-Muslim-demo.html)
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(http://i.imgur.com/0Lxt4Bx.png)
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https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/refugees-welcome-index-shows-government-refugee-policies-out-of-touch/ (https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/refugees-welcome-index-shows-government-refugee-policies-out-of-touch/)
The vast majority of people (80%) would welcome refugees with open arms, with many even prepared to take them into their own homes, according to a global survey commissioned by Amnesty International.
The new Refugees Welcome Index, based on a global survey of more than 27,000 people carried out by the internationally renowned strategy consultancy GlobeScan, ranks 27 countries across all continents based on people’s willingness to let refugees live in their countries, towns, neighbourhoods and homes.
The report also contains a bunch of easy to understand graphics. Unfortunately, there aren't any inflammatory 4chan type memes or sensationalism.
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https://youtu.be/mnZCqzvLEW8
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https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/refugees-welcome-index-shows-government-refugee-policies-out-of-touch/ (https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/05/refugees-welcome-index-shows-government-refugee-policies-out-of-touch/)
Expand Quote
The vast majority of people (80%) would welcome refugees with open arms, with many even prepared to take them into their own homes, according to a global survey commissioned by Amnesty International.
The new Refugees Welcome Index, based on a global survey of more than 27,000 people carried out by the internationally renowned strategy consultancy GlobeScan, ranks 27 countries across all continents based on people�s willingness to let refugees live in their countries, towns, neighbourhoods and homes.
The report also contains a bunch of easy to understand graphics. Unfortunately, there aren't any inflammatory 4chan type memes or sensationalism.
Ah yes Amnesty, those are some totally not biased people. Yet again Alan is posting bullshit studies and "polls"
Most people who get asked questions by amnesty just walk away right away , busy going to a job and not answering questions from some hipster who is trying to get laid by asking hot chicks questions at the train station . Trying to show the girls how cool they are and how much they "care "
Anyways if you actually answered the question shows you already are invested in amnesty and "helping people "
The study asked about 1000 people in these 27 countries . The population of EU is 500 million
Just take Germany . they asked 1001 people . Germanys population is about 81 million
Thats a fair poll ? asking 1001 people out of 81 Million ?
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Hahaha, of course a stupid and uneducated racist would be against AI.
As anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of statistics will tell you, a sample size of +/-1000 is the standard for large populations. They will also tell you that no survey is the absolute truth, but that they are good indicators on most issues. Feel free to do some research on sample sizes for large populations and open a new topic to discuss it. Any other issues you might have with the methodology used can also go in that topic.
Just kidding, I know that you're only capable of understanding oversimplified tabloid articles where everything is black and white, neat and tidy and you're told who to hate.
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Hahaha, of course a stupid and uneducated racist would be against AI.
As anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of statistics will tell you, a sample size of +/-1000 is the standard for large populations. They will also tell you that no survey is the absolute truth, but that they are good indicators on most issues. Feel free to do some research on sample sizes for large populations and open a new topic to discuss it. Any other issues you might have with the methodology used can also go in that topic.
Just kidding, I know that you're only capable of understanding oversimplified tabloid articles where everything is black and white, neat and tidy and you're told who to hate.
Just so you guys know , 1001 out of 81 million is about 0.0012358024691358023 %
Im shocked SHOCKED that a study from amnesty says exactly what their agenda is . Im suprised they had money to pay for this study with all the money the higher ups in amnesty are pocketing and sending into their swizz bank accounts .
Instead of trusting a study that polls 0.00123 % of the population ( which was carefully chosen ) Ill just look at how the people in these countries are voting and the state of the countries
No country in the EU is expanding their intake of refugees . Right wing parties are gaining ground in the EU and are winning elections .
Hate crimes against refugees are increasing . More refugees are being sent back home or to Turkey and Greece .
One thing besides the rise of the right in europe is the lack of millions of people protesting that we are not taking in more refugees
Europe has spoken in the way the politics and the people are voting and the actions . Not some fucking stupid poll by amnesty
Alans house could be on fire and he would trust some poll from amnesty that it was not on fire
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I assume from your post that you didn't read up on survey sample sizes and still don't know shit about statistics. No surprise there. Don't let facts get in the way of your hate.
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seems like austria is gonna get a far right wing, chem-trail believing, hate mongering president tomorrow. and he is gonna solve the refugee problem once and for all, just as he promised. 100% sure about that.
i cant believe that so many people here actually fall for that bullshit.
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I assume from your post that you didn't read up on survey sample sizes and still don't know shit about statistics. No surprise there. Don't let facts get in the way of your hate.
Like I said . You believe your biased study by Amnesty that people answered anonymous . I wonder how many of those people who said they would allow refugees to live with them have a refugee living with them . Im guessing 0.00000001%
Ill believe how people are voting and the governments are acting . Im sure Right wing politicians are winning elections cause people want more refugees .
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your biased study by Amnesty
How is it biased?
that people answered anonymous
Ummm, no shit. It's a survey.
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seems like austria is gonna get a far right wing, chem-trail believing, hate mongering president tomorrow. and he is gonna solve the refugee problem once and for all, just as he promised. 100% sure about that.
i cant believe that so many people here actually fall for that bullshit.
People are stupid and make decisions based on emotions rather than facts. But I hope they get it together tomorrow and get out and vote against this asshole.
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Expand Quote
your biased study by Amnesty
How is it biased?
Expand Quote
that people answered anonymous
Ummm, no shit. It's a survey.
This just in , ISIS polls themselves and find that they are the savoirs of the world and totaly not evil . Recep Tayyip Erdoğan polls the world and finds hes the best leader Turkey has ever had , and is the best leader the world has ever seen
A poll about hamas would have very different results in Europe , Israel and Palestine . Specialy if its paid by Hamas
You admit that surveys are not the truth yet you cant find a reason for Amnesty to pay for a survey that backs what Amnesty wants ?
Instead of looking at stupid polls from Amnesty , look at how people are voting , how governments are acting . How much more power the far right and the right have gained . How they are grabbing power in Europe . The rise in violence against refugees . How more and more countries are closing the boarder
Yet with all that evidence you choose to believe in some poll that backs what you believe in
And people who are anonymous can say any shit they want without any consequentness . Just look at slap . You ask some random person on the streets sure they would take in 5 puppies , 5 cats , 5 refugees and 5 orphans . But thats not what happens in real life
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Ill believe how people are voting and the governments are acting . Im sure Right wing politicians are winning elections cause people want more refugees .
no. they are winning elections because they claim to have simple solutions for pretty complicated problems. none of the ideas that they have here would work. but they dont even have to prove it, because they arent in the position to do so. so they lie and lie and lie, and people believe it. at some point they get enough votes to actually matter, and then the same thing happens as it did 10 years ago here: they fail at every single thing, grab as much money as they can for themselves and their friends and leave a country in debt behind. just to wait 10 more years to do it all over again.
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This just in , ISIS polls themselves and find that they are the savoirs of the world and totaly not evil . Recep Tayyip Erdoğan polls the world and finds hes the best leader Turkey has ever had , and is the best leader the world has ever seen
A poll about hamas would have very different results in Europe , Israel and Palestine . Specialy if its paid by Hamas
You admit that surveys are not the truth yet you cant find a reason for Amnesty to pay for a survey that backs what Amnesty wants ?
So you're saying GlobeScan influences results to match what their clients want to hear? You know that AI didn't poll their donors or employees, right? And you actually think that if ISIS paid GlobeScan do do a survey they'd get high approval numbers across the world? This was a global survey, done in 27 countries. You haven't read the data breakdown and you're just talking out of your ass again, aren't you?
And people who are anonymous can say any shit they want without any consequentness . Just look at slap . You ask some random person on the streets sure they would take in 5 puppies , 5 cats , 5 refugees and 5 orphans . But thats not what happens in real life
The results reflect general attitudes, which is why the majority would allow the refugees to enter their country, but only a fraction would take people into their homes. That's realistic.
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Speaking of the Austrian elections, I found this and it gave me a good chuckle. (It's in German)
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seems like austria is gonna get a far right wing, chem-trail believing, hate mongering president tomorrow. and he is gonna solve the refugee problem once and for all, just as he promised. 100% sure about that.
i cant believe that so many people here actually fall for that bullshit.
Does he have a solution? A final solution?
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I assume from your post that you didn't read up on survey sample sizes and still don't know shit about statistics. No surprise there. Don't let facts get in the way of your hate.
Like I said . You believe your biased study by Amnesty that people answered anonymous .
You also believed the "proof" US presented before invading Iraq. And the whole feminist thing.
I wonder how many of those people who said they would allow refugees to live with them have a refugee living with them . Im guessing 0.00000001%
Don't wonder, not your strength. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)
Ill believe how people are voting and the governments are acting.
Great indicator, not like retards change their "political opinion" based on petty feelings. You said youself that you will not vote for Miljöpartiet again.
Im sure Right wing politicians are winning elections cause people want more refugees .
Great thinking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality
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seems like austria is gonna get a far right wing, chem-trail believing, hate mongering president tomorrow. and he is gonna solve the refugee problem once and for all, just as he promised. 100% sure about that.
i cant believe that so many people here actually fall for that bullshit.
They reanimated Haider?
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Does he have a solution? A final solution?
of course. they always have. but lets stick to the myth that hitler was german, we are pretty good at hiding where he actually came from.
They reanimated Haider?
nah, they found some people even worse. haider was too mainstream in the end.
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Does he have a solution? A final solution?
of course. they always have. but lets stick to the myth that hitler was german, we are pretty good at hiding where he actually came from.
nah, they found some people even worse. haider was too mainstream in the end.
So what are the main problems in Austria besides the refugee situation that has made the people so unhappy and looking for quick fixes ?
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So what are the main problems in Austria besides the refugee situation that has made the people so unhappy and looking for quick fixes ?
the refugee situation isnt as bad as media and certain parties make it seem. other than that, the economy crisis hit austria way later than many other countries, so now unemployment has risen. but in the end i guess theres not too many countries where people actually have it better than here. but that wont stop them from complaining, and with this whole refugee mess it became pretty easy to find somebody to blame.
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Expand Quote
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So what are the main problems in Austria besides the refugee situation that has made the people so unhappy and looking for quick fixes ?
the refugee situation isnt as bad as media and certain parties make it seem. other than that, the economy crisis hit austria way later than many other countries, so now unemployment has risen. but in the end i guess theres not too many countries where people actually have it better than here. but that wont stop them from complaining, and with this whole refugee mess it became pretty easy to find somebody to blame.
Beat me to it. If you're familiar with politics in the area, this is very much the case. And another thing-- Monty you cant complain about a poll not portraying an accurate statistic of a country and then say that you believe in the voters. Only a percentage of the population votes and it could be argued that that percentage skews older (definitely the case in the US, I can't account for Europe.) But it's bullshit to be operating out of fear and hypothetical situations.
About 85% voted in the 2014 Swedish election so I kind of think its a fair representation of peoples views compared to a study paid by amnesty that people can answer anonymously
Media said about 70+ % will vote in the Austrian election . If its that high I do believe its a accurate representation of what people want and dont want in a election
I dont know anything really about the situation in Austria or if the guy who might win is far right wing . But it is quite worrying if he is far right and got this far . Same with those far right parties that Germany has . Germany and Austria has a troubled history with far right parties so its quite worrying that they are getting so many votes
If you do wanna believe in polls you can look at the Swedish democrats who started of as a joke with not enough votes to join the government , then the next election they got into the government , after that they have been growing and growing . And if you do wanna belive in polls they are now the third biggest party in sweden with 15-20 %
unless things change in Sweden they will be one of the major powers in the next goverment / election in 2018
Refugee / immigration / integration is a BIG question now in Sweden . Theres news articles everyday about people with foreign background throwing rocks at buses , trains , police , EMTs , Fire department and civilians . And people getting shot and stabbed almost everyday.
They set fire to cars and when the fire department arrives they get attacked , then police get there and they get attacked
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Ignore legitimate concerns of people, and they will end up supporting someone who gives their concerns a voice. Observe Trump in the US. Calling everyone ignorant or racist is just lazy liberalism at its finest. True liberals understand the concerns of the working poor, including the white working poor. Observe Bernie below:
Bernie Sanders: "Open borders? That's a Koch brothers proposal" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf-k6qOfXz0#)
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the thing is: its pretty disturbing how focused media is on all kinds of foreign crimes, or even rumors. in the last 4 days, one guy ran amok and shot 3 people and killed himself and another one got caught with 1000s of child porn videos, both "real" austrians. in every other scenario, those news would have been headlines for days. what happened? a few little news bits here and there.
i am not denying that crimes are being committed by refugees, but the fact that every little bit gets blown out of proportion and the news are dominated by this surely is completely fucked.
and thats one of the few points where we agree, nick. the leading politicians here didnt give a shit about most concerns, be it how to deal with refugees (they basically were acting like "lets sort it out itself" instead of trying to have a proper plan until it was too late) or unemployment, retirement funds and 100s of other things. and now they are completely baffled as to why so many people are pissed.
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i dont know if you followed the austrian presidential elections, but holy shit that was close.
the right wing asshole lost by 0.6%. met up with a few friends to see the live stream of the official result. the tension was insane.
as relieved as i am, still nearly 50% of my fellow countrymen decided that a aggressive, hateful, completely prejudiced approach to politics seems just fine. its heartbreaking.
plus i dont look forward to seeing what the future brings.
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Van der Bellen sound awfully foreign to me...
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i dont know if you followed the austrian presidential elections, but holy shit that was close.
the right wing asshole lost by 0.6%. met up with a few friends to see the live stream of the official result. the tension was insane.
as relieved as i am, still nearly 50% of my fellow countrymen decided that a aggressive, hateful, completely prejudiced approach to politics seems just fine. its heartbreaking.
plus i dont look forward to seeing what the future brings.
Maybe I read it wrong but some article said the president has no real power and theres a future election coming up that will really decide who runs the country . As the problem that the guy who won said he wont swear in the right wing dude if he wins . which cause more problems ?
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Monty, please explain how a poll being anonymous reduces the quality of the data it produces. The whole point of anonymity is to allow people to give their authentic opinion without fear of reprisals. All of the election results that you are pointing to as counter-examples were arrived at through anonymous polling. I know public policy data collection methods probably aren't your strong suit, but this is just so illogical it's making my head spin.
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Monty, please explain how a poll being anonymous reduces the quality of the data it produces. The whole point of anonymity is to allow people to give their authentic opinion without fear of reprisals. All of the election results that you are pointing to as counter-examples were arrived at through anonymous polling. I know public policy data collection methods probably aren't your strong suit, but this is just so illogical it's making my head spin.
A poll thats anonymous has no consequences . Anybody can say anything . Somebody could say " Yes I would take in 5 refugees into my own house and take care of them " But since its just a poll and there will be no follow up it makes it very low quality
Another example is using very attractive girls / men as the people asking people the questions . I know for sure alot of guys and some women would go up and talk to them and say pretty much anything to try to chat them up
A anonymous election actually has consequences . We want our political party to win cause of the benefits it will have on where you live and policies , laws and so on . Voting actually does something
So basicly a poll from amnesty wont make a government change their mind about conducting policies
But a election will since you can conduct it on special policies . laws or changing entire governments
Another example would be SLAP or the internet , some people act bat shit crazy and say totally ridiculous things . But they dont act like that out in the real world . anonymity lets people say stuff they dont mean and without consequences
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Maybe I read it wrong but some article said the president has no real power and theres a future election coming up that will really decide who runs the country . As the problem that the guy who won said he wont swear in the right wing dude if he wins . which cause more problems ?
nah you are right, but the problem is this: 49.7% of austrians thought it would be fine to have a president that believes in chemtrails, is highly aggressive towards every kind of foreigner and part of a fraternity that straight up denies that austria has been liberated in 1945 and should be united with germany to protect the "german race". sounds familiar?
the fact that this is ok for so many is frightening.
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Mass sexual assault reported at music festival in Germany (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-sexual-assault-music-festival-cologne-darmstadt-a7057416.html)
The attacks are similar to those reported in Cologne and other cities on New Year's Eve
Eighteen women have said they were sexual assaulted at a music festival in Germany.
Three men from Pakistan aged between 28 and 31 have been arrested and police are still searching for three men who may also have been involved.
The attacks are similar to those reported in Cologne and other cities on New Year's Eve, when as many as 1,000 women were groped and robbed.
Police said three women reported being groped at the Schlossgrabenfest music festival in Darmstadt on Saturdaym saying they had been encircled then sexually harassed by a group of men.
By Tuesday, 15 more women had made complaints of being sexually assaulted in a similar manner at the festival.
The three men who have been arrested are asylum seekers from Pakistan. All have been charged with sexual assault charges.
Police have said the number of complaints could rise and are hunting for between two and three more men.
(http://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/bOxVTp5.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/bOxVTp5.jpg)
That had nothing to do with terrorism or islam, come on man.
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That had nothing to do with terrorism or islam, come on man.
You know he's just a racist troll, right?
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Bump for the World Refugee Day.
(http://www.unhcr.org/thumb1/5763b8f84.jpg)
For more click here: http://www.unhcr.org/news/latest/2016/6/5763b65a4/global-forced-displacement-hits-record-high.html (http://www.unhcr.org/news/latest/2016/6/5763b65a4/global-forced-displacement-hits-record-high.html)
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Left-wing German politician who was raped by migrants admits she lied to police about her attackers' nationality because she did not want to encourage racism (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3675154/Left-wing-German-politician-raped-migrants-admits-LIED-police-attackers-nationality-did-not-want-encourage-racism.html)
Selin Gören was attacked by three men in January in the city of Mannheim
She went to police but did not reveal the ethnic make-up of the suspects
Instead, the 24-year-old said she had been robbed by German speakers
Refugee activist had feared there would be a backlash against migrants
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and the hits just keep on coming:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691019/Several-people-injured-truck-crashes-crowd-Bastille-Day-celebrations-Nice.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691019/Several-people-injured-truck-crashes-crowd-Bastille-Day-celebrations-Nice.html)
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Missed the cutoff:
(http://i.imgur.com/Vgh5bNT.png)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnW50G1WgAAiyjY.jpg)
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and the hits just keep on coming:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691019/Several-people-injured-truck-crashes-crowd-Bastille-Day-celebrations-Nice.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691019/Several-people-injured-truck-crashes-crowd-Bastille-Day-celebrations-Nice.html)
Fuck, seriously though...
Sucks for refugees/foreigners, cause most of them aren't terrorists or rapists, but a large enough (but still very small) portion are that Europe has pretty much gone to shit in the past few years because of them. It'd be sort of fucked for Europe to just close its doors, but how many more can you afford to let in? There's gonna be even more violence.
At this rate people will be fleeing Europe in a couple of years
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This guy wasn't a refugee, and for now, it looks like he wasn't connected to fundamentalist groups, or even slightly religious.
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This guy wasn't a refugee, and for now, it looks like he wasn't connected to fundamentalist groups, or even slightly religious.
ISIS is claiming responsibility for the terror attack . While its true that they can just be taking the credit for the lone wolf attack . 4 other people have been arrested . And ISIS is on social media all the time telling people to attack the west . Even if he was a lone wolf style Jihad attack he could have been spam watching or reading ISIS messages
Kind of like that teenager in denmark who killed her mom after binge watching ISIS videos online .
As for drinking alcohol , eating pork and not going to mosque , Its not uncommon and "allowed" to pretend not to be muslim to conduct attacks according to muslim terror sects
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ISIS is claiming responsibility for the terror attack . While its true that they can just be taking the credit for the lone wolf attack . 4 other people have been arrested . And ISIS is on social media all the time telling people to attack the west . Even if he was a lone wolf style Jihad attack he could have been spam watching or reading ISIS messages
For now there's no indication that ISIS have any connection to the case apart from their claim. The people arrested were close to him, one of them was his ex wife, whom he abused previously. The officials said that the guy wasn't known to them as an Islamist, just a violent, petty criminal. So it is most likely that the police are just trying to find out more about the guy, rather than them discovering a Jihadist cell or whatever.
And judging by the reports, it seems like he was a lone wolf, not a Jihadist lone wolf.
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Expand Quote
and the hits just keep on coming:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691019/Several-people-injured-truck-crashes-crowd-Bastille-Day-celebrations-Nice.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691019/Several-people-injured-truck-crashes-crowd-Bastille-Day-celebrations-Nice.html)
Fuck, seriously though...
Sucks for refugees/foreigners, cause most of them aren't terrorists or rapists, but a large enough (but still very small) portion are that Europe has pretty much gone to shit in the past few years because of them. It'd be sort of fucked for Europe to just close its doors, but how many more can you afford to let in? There's gonna be even more violence.
At this rate people will be fleeing Europe in a couple of years
Apparently the Jews have been leaving France for a little while now.
Terrorists groups often encourage muslims living in the west to carry out lone wolf attacks with any means available to them. Probably living a shitty life and figured he could take out some unbelievers and become a martyr and live a happy existence in paradise.
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/asia/pakistan-qandeel-baloch-brother-confession/ (http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/asia/pakistan-qandeel-baloch-brother-confession/)
http://twitter.com/Isoumyas/status/754228565986586625 (http://twitter.com/Isoumyas/status/754228565986586625)
http://twitter.com/KyaUkhaadLega/status/754340150935711744 (http://twitter.com/KyaUkhaadLega/status/754340150935711744)
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Yesterday what the first time a person died in Sweden cause the ambulance and fire department couldnt reach the victim cause of people throwing stones
This was in one of the swedish "ghettos" and the people throwing rocks were "foreign borne"
There was already talk about fixing this with longer sentence and more police work . But lets see what happens
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Yesterday what the first time a person died in Sweden cause the ambulance and fire department couldnt reach the victim cause of people throwing stones
This was in one of the swedish "ghettos" and the people throwing rocks were "foreign borne"
There was already talk about fixing this with longer sentence and more police work . But lets see what happens
I know that you hate reading, math and logic, but I hope you will enjoy the article below. Two highlights:
"They found that the convicts did seem to respond to the harsher sentences. They estimated that previously convicted criminals discount the future at a rate of 0.74: in other words, they care about events in one year�s time around three quarters as much as events today. This compares to discount rates of around 0.95 more common in the population at large. The economists compare different groups; the highly educated are most sensitive to heftier sentences, while immigrants and drug-offenders are least sensitive."
"With that caveat in mind, their results have several implications for criminal justice policy. First, longer sentences might work better to deter white-collar crime than drug offences. Second, while longer sentences do have some deterrent effect, they are concentrated in the first few years. A mandatory minimum sentence of ten years with a threat of an extra ten depending on the nature of the crime may deter some crimes. But the extra ten years will be less effective as a deterrent than the threat of five years on top of a five year mandatory minimum. According to the estimates in the paper, criminals worry about the extra five years four times as much as the extra ten."
(Source: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2016/03/criminal-justice (http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2016/03/criminal-justice) )
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I didnt say my suggestion was to make longer sentences . I said they are making new laws with longer sentences
To be honest if you are throwing rocks on a ambulance / EMT people trying to get to a patient who really needs it I think you should be able to shoot them
Same with fire trucks and fire men going to a fire . They are a waste space on earth and absolute scum
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just because i dont really get it: whats the reason for them to throw stones at ambulances and stuff?
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just because i dont really get it: whats the reason for them to throw stones at ambulances and stuff?
Well, the cause of that kind of behaviour is a terrible illness called "stupid". I'll give you an example:
You are born in one of the richest (per capita) countries on the planet, given free education and healthcare, yet your dumb ass is still under the impression that you live in a warzone and it is the establishments fault that you can barely read, wake up at noon and wear a tracksuit at all times. So you throw rocks to "protect" the "hood" against the "pigs", but also firefighters and ambulance personnel.
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alright, that sounds reasonable. going to stock up on rocks asap.
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Any german got any news about the afghan refugee who attacked people on a train with a axe ?
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He just watched Snowpiercer one too many times.
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He just watched Snowpiercer one too many times.
Snowpiercer was ISIS Propaganda , Snowpiercer stared Chris Evans , Chris Evans is Captain America , America is promoting ISIS , ISIS is America , America did 9/11
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damn, i love snowpiercer, what a great movie.
no news on the axewielding afghan other than he had a selfmade isis flag. our news agencies are stupid as fuck. every english site says the guy attacked people while screaming exclamations, here they said he yelled allahu akhbar. why semi-whitewash it for the foreign press?
one green party politician caught flakkk because she lamented the police killed the dude.
i mean come on, what where the police supposed to do, axe him the right questions?
to be clear, i'm still not against taking up refugees. i just have a hard time feeling empathy for a dude that attacks random people with an axe for whatever reasons.
it would be interesting tho to hear how he was situated. he wasn't even a major by german standards so how was he unsupervised?
it's not known yet how he lived, did he live in a church refuge, a project, or a caretaker family? all people do now is discussing if it's ok that he got shot. it would be interesting to know if he came here with that mindset, or if he developed it in the short time while he was here.
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damn, i love snowpiercer, what a great movie.
no news on the axewielding afghan other than he had a selfmade isis flag. our news agencies are stupid as fuck. every english site says the guy attacked people while screaming exclamations, here they said he yelled allahu akhbar. why semi-whitewash it for the foreign press?
one green party politician caught flakkk because she lamented the police killed the dude.
i mean come on, what where the police supposed to do, axe him the right questions?
to be clear, i'm still not against taking up refugees. i just have a hard time feeling empathy for a dude that attacks random people with an axe for whatever reasons.
it would be interesting tho to hear how he was situated. he wasn't even a major by german standards so how was he unsupervised?
it's not known yet how he lived, did he live in a church refuge, a project, or a caretaker family? all people do now is discussing if it's ok that he got shot. it would be interesting to know if he came here with that mindset, or if he developed it in the short time while he was here.
See what the left has made us become ? you are basically hating on a terrorist attack , a horrible person that attacked regular citizens and you still feed the need to tell us you dont hate refugees
Everybody against the left is a racist , Islamophobe and wanting to shoot refugees children
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yeah well, the absolutely same can be said about the right. "oh you dont want to deport all refugees, ban islam and close the borders? well thank you for wanting our kids to be raped and everybody blown up."
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Ha, it's the left's fault for making us not resort to generalizations...
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damn, i love snowpiercer, what a great movie.
no news on the axewielding afghan other than he had a selfmade isis flag. our news agencies are stupid as fuck. every english site says the guy attacked people while screaming exclamations, here they said he yelled allahu akhbar. why semi-whitewash it for the foreign press?
one green party politician caught flakkk because she lamented the police killed the dude.
i mean come on, what where the police supposed to do, axe him the right questions?
to be clear, i'm still not against taking up refugees. i just have a hard time feeling empathy for a dude that attacks random people with an axe for whatever reasons.
it would be interesting tho to hear how he was situated. he wasn't even a major by german standards so how was he unsupervised?
it's not known yet how he lived, did he live in a church refuge, a project, or a caretaker family? all people do now is discussing if it's ok that he got shot. it would be interesting to know if he came here with that mindset, or if he developed it in the short time while he was here.
See what the left has made us become ? you are basically hating on a terrorist attack , a horrible person that attacked regular citizens and you still feed the need to tell us you dont hate refugees
Everybody against the left is a racist , Islamophobe and wanting to shoot refugees children
Jesus, can you please stop defending yourself? We all know (kind of) your stance by now, no need to repeat your visual pollution with these walls of text written by a moron. Yes, I called you a moron again, please don't play the victim card.
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damn, i love snowpiercer, what a great movie.
no news on the axewielding afghan other than he had a selfmade isis flag. our news agencies are stupid as fuck. every english site says the guy attacked people while screaming exclamations, here they said he yelled allahu akhbar. why semi-whitewash it for the foreign press?
one green party politician caught flakkk because she lamented the police killed the dude.
i mean come on, what where the police supposed to do, axe him the right questions?
to be clear, i'm still not against taking up refugees. i just have a hard time feeling empathy for a dude that attacks random people with an axe for whatever reasons.
it would be interesting tho to hear how he was situated. he wasn't even a major by german standards so how was he unsupervised?
it's not known yet how he lived, did he live in a church refuge, a project, or a caretaker family? all people do now is discussing if it's ok that he got shot. it would be interesting to know if he came here with that mindset, or if he developed it in the short time while he was here.
See what the left has made us become ?� you are basically hating on a terrorist attack , a horrible person that attacked regular citizens and you still feed the need to tell us you dont hate refugees
Everybody against the left is a racist , Islamophobe and wanting to shoot refugees children
not sure i get your point with the first sentence??? i also never spoke about hate. i don't know these people. i frankly personally don't give a fuck about most of them. i recognize their right to seek refuge in their emergency. it seems like you can't understand how i don't hate them already, but i sure hope i misunderstood that. i don't get why i should want to hate anybody in the literal sense i don't even personally know.
i want this right to be maintained if possible, it's not the refugees "fault" nor doing that it exists and it's not a crime of them to make use of it. how countries deal with it is another point.
also your last sentence is wildly exaggerated. it's partly true but only if you only take into account the extreme left or certain movements within it. i admit it's hard to argue against migration and refugees without looking like a racist, currently politicians and people as well are not even trying tho, hence they get called out for it. you can't tell me that orban, wilders, le pen and all these people are not far right. orban is pretty much a borderline fascist by all means and not ashamed to admit his hardline views. when regular people pick their stupid arguments up and repeat them, it's fair to call them racists in my opinion. if these politicians want to shoot refugees at the border, and others support them for it, these supporters can't claim they are against shooting refugees. there is just not a lot of grey in the discussion. conservatives are kind of invisible or only heard of if they commit to a more extreme and loud stance on either side of the spectrum, prompting some to spin more left or right.
what's left is a cynical argument where both sides try their best to accuse the other side of some form of bigotry. i am in favor of the left because if you look into it, they have the better plans imo how to deal with the situation, at least in germany. they always wanted to talk about migration, refugees, germany's military industrial complex which supplies the saudis and therefore isis. people have been migrating and coming as refugees for the last decades, but until very recently, conservatives and social democrats alike plain said germany is not a destination for immigrants, so we need no laws. this was under the assumption that there will be mostly immigrants from other eu countries, and those don't really count as immigrants.
i also don't want to go back in time regarding the social progress that was made. along with islamophobia, all kinds of hate groups feel like it's their chance now to get everything reverted to ye olde times when lgbt people stayed in the closet and gender roles were clear, asians weren't supposed to fix your pc but to cook you cheap food and black people can be called names again. imo left vs right misses the point. it's the ideal of an open and equal society vs a restricted classist society.
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Been a few more recent hits lately to go along with the NICE truck attack.
Mother and her three daughters, aged between 8 and 14, are stabbed by 'Muslim' man in French holiday resort because they were 'scantily dressed'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697451/Mother-three-daughters-aged-8-14-STABBED-French-holiday-resort-scantily-dressed.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697451/Mother-three-daughters-aged-8-14-STABBED-French-holiday-resort-scantily-dressed.html)
German machete attack: Syrian refugee kills woman and injures two others in Reutlingen
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-machete-attack-stuttgart-reutlingen-crime-knife-attack-a7153561.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-machete-attack-stuttgart-reutlingen-crime-knife-attack-a7153561.html)
A failed Syrian asylum seeker has blown himself up and injured 15 other people with a backpack bomb near a festival in the south German town of Ansbach.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758)
From today: armed men take hostages in church and slit throat of priest, and gravely injure another:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html)
(http://i.imgur.com/EFyJ1Ai.jpg)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnW50G1WgAAiyjY.jpg)
nice one, Alan.
I would like to add that after careful statistical analysis i have found out that the dumber/less educated a person is the more they deteriorate from these guidelines.
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Been a few more recent hits lately to go along with the NICE truck attack.
Mother and her three daughters, aged between 8 and 14, are stabbed by 'Muslim' man in French holiday resort because they were 'scantily dressed'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697451/Mother-three-daughters-aged-8-14-STABBED-French-holiday-resort-scantily-dressed.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697451/Mother-three-daughters-aged-8-14-STABBED-French-holiday-resort-scantily-dressed.html)
German machete attack: Syrian refugee kills woman and injures two others in Reutlingen
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-machete-attack-stuttgart-reutlingen-crime-knife-attack-a7153561.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-machete-attack-stuttgart-reutlingen-crime-knife-attack-a7153561.html)
A failed Syrian asylum seeker has blown himself up and injured 15 other people with a backpack bomb near a festival in the south German town of Ansbach.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758)
From today: armed men take hostages in church and slit throat of priest, and gravely injure another:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html)
(http://i.imgur.com/EFyJ1Ai.jpg)
You're scared. Most conservatives are. It's ok. But until you can fully explain the regular mass shootings in the USA by non-muslims, you are reaching.
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Expand Quote
Been a few more recent hits lately to go along with the NICE truck attack.
Mother and her three daughters, aged between 8 and 14, are stabbed by 'Muslim' man in French holiday resort because they were 'scantily dressed'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697451/Mother-three-daughters-aged-8-14-STABBED-French-holiday-resort-scantily-dressed.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697451/Mother-three-daughters-aged-8-14-STABBED-French-holiday-resort-scantily-dressed.html)
German machete attack: Syrian refugee kills woman and injures two others in Reutlingen
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-machete-attack-stuttgart-reutlingen-crime-knife-attack-a7153561.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-machete-attack-stuttgart-reutlingen-crime-knife-attack-a7153561.html)
A failed Syrian asylum seeker has blown himself up and injured 15 other people with a backpack bomb near a festival in the south German town of Ansbach.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758)
From today: armed men take hostages in church and slit throat of priest, and gravely injure another:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3708394/Two-men-armed-knives-people-hostage-French-church.html)
(http://i.imgur.com/EFyJ1Ai.jpg)
You're scared. Most conservatives are. It's ok. But until you can fully explain the regular mass shootings in the USA by non-muslims, you are reaching.
Syria is the size of a single US state. US shootings are products of society, same as syrian attackers. Imagine if all the US shooters came from the same state and had the same religion, you gonna tell me we wouldnt talk shit about that area and the religion?
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Hey Monty. this all true?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/ (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/)
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Hey Monty. this all true?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/ (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/)
Pretty much
Theres a huge police crisis currently in Sweden . something like 8/10 are not happy and are thinking of quitting . I think the clear rate of crimes right now was 14% ? . Under staffed and power less in some cases
Theres semi riots in some cities , up to 50 cars set afire every night , tires and other debris being pulled out on the streets and then set fire too . waiting for the fire department and police to arrive and then attack them with fireworks and stones
even ambulance staff are being attacked when going on calls in the ghettos . Few weeks ago somebody died because the EMTs would not enter the area without police escort .
The police are fucked and sometimes dont even go on calls . Was one incident where 2 refugee female kids were shot at , and the police got the call but just didnt go there .
The child sex prostitution is also true . Think it was 50 refugee children who the staff reported that were being pimped out but the police say they dont have the man power to do anything about it . One Romaninan prostitute who has dissapeared , but the police refused to file a report on it
That UK kid was killed by somebody throwing in a handgranade in the apartment . Like the link said its some kind of Somali gang war . Lots of shootings and killings . I cant remember the last time we havent had shootings , stabbings or granades in the media . Seems every damn day we have some super violent crime
The syrian refugees are getting fucked over by high numbers of refugees from other countries taking their spots . And the child refugees are getting fucked over by adults taking the place of them . One doctor was in the news yesterday saying that some of the "kids" were about 30 or 40 years old with grey hair . If you claim you are a kid the chances to get to stay are much higher .Almost 100% I think
Now the same goes for crimes . Multiple crimes committed by refugees and asylum seekers are saying they are under 15 to get lighter sentencing . We dont send under 15s to prison. There was that infamous rape of a Swedish chick by 4 or 5 Somalis and all claimed
to be under 15 and its still in the news . They are re doing the trails cause they are more in their 20s
Theres so much ells to write or complain about but I guess the short story is
Police , fire and EMTs , hospital , elderly are all over worked , under paid and on the edge . Every day you have " open letters " to media from them that we need change NOW . Think they need 3000 new police to deal with current things in Sweden . But most cops want to quit and not many people want to be cops . And who wants to be a EMT when you get attacked on calls ? pelted with rocks
The refugees are living in bad places , sometimes waiting 1-2 years for a answer if they get to stay in Sweden or not . If they get a No it can take another year befor you are deported or get help to get home . If you get to stay theres a whole new problem of learning Swedish , starting school , finding work , finding a place to live
Thats why you get "ghettos" with large population of none swedes . No jobs so they need a cheap place to stay , and many want to live with fellow country men. The kids grow up with the parents being on benefits so they loose that feeling of having to work for a living . Poor results in school . Shitty schools cause no integration . Shitty ghettos cause no integration with the Swedish population
Norway , Finland and Denmark does not have the same problems as Sweden does . You can check their refugee plans to see why . And also that they integrate them much better then Sweden
Its hard to believe that theres shootings and little kids are being killed by hand grandes in Sweden. Think the latest hand grande attack was yestaday and last shooting was today
Things will change alot with the next election I believe , But getting Sweden back on track will take years
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Hey Monty. this all true?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/ (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/)
Pretty much
Theres a huge police crisis currently in Sweden . something like 8/10 are not happy and are thinking of quitting . I think the clear rate of crimes right now was 14% ? . Under staffed and power less in some cases
Theres semi riots in some cities , up to 50 cars set afire every night , tires and other debris being pulled out on the streets and then set fire too . waiting for the fire department and police to arrive and then attack them with fireworks and stones
even ambulance staff are being attacked when going on calls in the ghettos . Few weeks ago somebody died because the EMTs would not enter the area without police escort .
The police are fucked and sometimes dont even go on calls . Was one incident where 2 refugee female kids were shot at , and the police got the call but just didnt go there .
The child sex prostitution is also true . Think it was 50 refugee children who the staff reported that were being pimped out but the police say they dont have the man power to do anything about it . One Romaninan prostitute who has dissapeared , but the police refused to file a report on it
That UK kid was killed by somebody throwing in a handgranade in the apartment . Like the link said its some kind of Somali gang war . Lots of shootings and killings . I cant remember the last time we havent had shootings , stabbings or granades in the media . Seems every damn day we have some super violent crime
The syrian refugees are getting fucked over by high numbers of refugees from other countries taking their spots . And the child refugees are getting fucked over by adults taking the place of them . One doctor was in the news yesterday saying that some of the "kids" were about 30 or 40 years old with grey hair . If you claim you are a kid the chances to get to stay are much higher .Almost 100% I think
Now the same goes for crimes . Multiple crimes committed by refugees and asylum seekers are saying they are under 15 to get lighter sentencing . We dont send under 15s to prison. There was that infamous rape of a Swedish chick by 4 or 5 Somalis and all claimed
to be under 15 and its still in the news . They are re doing the trails cause they are more in their 20s
Theres so much ells to write or complain about but I guess the short story is
Police , fire and EMTs , hospital , elderly are all over worked , under paid and on the edge . Every day you have " open letters " to media from them that we need change NOW . Think they need 3000 new police to deal with current things in Sweden . But most cops want to quit and not many people want to be cops . And who wants to be a EMT when you get attacked on calls ? pelted with rocks
The refugees are living in bad places , sometimes waiting 1-2 years for a answer if they get to stay in Sweden or not . If they get a No it can take another year befor you are deported or get help to get home . If you get to stay theres a whole new problem of learning Swedish , starting school , finding work , finding a place to live
Thats why you get "ghettos" with large population of none swedes . No jobs so they need a cheap place to stay , and many want to live with fellow country men. The kids grow up with the parents being on benefits so they loose that feeling of having to work for a living . Poor results in school . Shitty schools cause no integration . Shitty ghettos cause no integration with the Swedish population
Norway , Finland and Denmark does not have the same problems as Sweden does . You can check their refugee plans to see why . And also that they integrate them much better then Sweden
Its hard to believe that theres shootings and little kids are being killed by hand grandes in Sweden. Think the latest hand grande attack was yestaday and last shooting was today
Things will change alot with the next election I believe , But getting Sweden back on track will take years
if the situation wasn't so fucked, this would be laughable:
(http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/30AB3CE200000578-0-image-a-20_1454027860438-618x457.jpg)
that's the fastest "14 year old" in sweden.
http://www.dailystormer.com/immigrant-children-meet-the-fastest-14-year-old-in-sweden/ (http://www.dailystormer.com/immigrant-children-meet-the-fastest-14-year-old-in-sweden/)
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Ah yes. The good old, trusty Daily Stormer "The World's #1 Alt-Right and Pro-Genocide Website".
It may not be the NYT or the BBC, but at least it's got swastikas and troll faces everywhere. Doesn't seem suspect at all.
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Hey Monty. this all true?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/ (http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/09/how-sweden-became-an-example-of-how-not-to-handle-immigration/)
Pretty much
Theres a huge police crisis currently in Sweden . something like 8/10 are not happy and are thinking of quitting . I think the clear rate of crimes right now was 14% ? . Under staffed and power less in some cases
Theres semi riots in some cities , up to 50 cars set afire every night , tires and other debris being pulled out on the streets and then set fire too . waiting for the fire department and police to arrive and then attack them with fireworks and stones
even ambulance staff are being attacked when going on calls in the ghettos . Few weeks ago somebody died because the EMTs would not enter the area without police escort .
The police are fucked and sometimes dont even go on calls . Was one incident where 2 refugee female kids were shot at , and the police got the call but just didnt go there .
The child sex prostitution is also true . Think it was 50 refugee children who the staff reported that were being pimped out but the police say they dont have the man power to do anything about it . One Romaninan prostitute who has dissapeared , but the police refused to file a report on it
That UK kid was killed by somebody throwing in a handgranade in the apartment . Like the link said its some kind of Somali gang war . Lots of shootings and killings . I cant remember the last time we havent had shootings , stabbings or granades in the media . Seems every damn day we have some super violent crime
The syrian refugees are getting fucked over by high numbers of refugees from other countries taking their spots . And the child refugees are getting fucked over by adults taking the place of them . One doctor was in the news yesterday saying that some of the "kids" were about 30 or 40 years old with grey hair . If you claim you are a kid the chances to get to stay are much higher .Almost 100% I think
Now the same goes for crimes . Multiple crimes committed by refugees and asylum seekers are saying they are under 15 to get lighter sentencing . We dont send under 15s to prison. There was that infamous rape of a Swedish chick by 4 or 5 Somalis and all claimed
to be under 15 and its still in the news . They are re doing the trails cause they are more in their 20s
Theres so much ells to write or complain about but I guess the short story is
Police , fire and EMTs , hospital , elderly are all over worked , under paid and on the edge . Every day you have " open letters " to media from them that we need change NOW . Think they need 3000 new police to deal with current things in Sweden . But most cops want to quit and not many people want to be cops . And who wants to be a EMT when you get attacked on calls ? pelted with rocks
The refugees are living in bad places , sometimes waiting 1-2 years for a answer if they get to stay in Sweden or not . If they get a No it can take another year befor you are deported or get help to get home . If you get to stay theres a whole new problem of learning Swedish , starting school , finding work , finding a place to live
Thats why you get "ghettos" with large population of none swedes . No jobs so they need a cheap place to stay , and many want to live with fellow country men. The kids grow up with the parents being on benefits so they loose that feeling of having to work for a living . Poor results in school . Shitty schools cause no integration . Shitty ghettos cause no integration with the Swedish population
Norway , Finland and Denmark does not have the same problems as Sweden does . You can check their refugee plans to see why . And also that they integrate them much better then Sweden
Its hard to believe that theres shootings and little kids are being killed by hand grandes in Sweden. Think the latest hand grande attack was yestaday and last shooting was today
Things will change alot with the next election I believe , But getting Sweden back on track will take years
if the situation wasn't so fucked, this would be laughable:
(http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/30AB3CE200000578-0-image-a-20_1454027860438-618x457.jpg)
that's the fastest "14 year old" in sweden.
http://www.dailystormer.com/immigrant-children-meet-the-fastest-14-year-old-in-sweden/ (http://www.dailystormer.com/immigrant-children-meet-the-fastest-14-year-old-in-sweden/)
daily stormer? you're either a fucking idiot or a neo nazi.
Thats why you get "ghettos" with large population of none swedes . No jobs so they need a cheap place to stay , and many want to live with fellow country men. The kids grow up with the parents being on benefits so they loose that feeling of having to work for a living . Poor results in school . Shitty schools cause no integration . Shitty ghettos cause no integration with the Swedish population
monty, that's not how ghettos are created. that's more of a bigoted view of ethnic enclaves. good job, bud.
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snickers
Please tell me then . Just saying Im wrong is not helping anything
Every Swedish "ghettos" Ive been to suffer from the same symptoms. Really high population of refugees/immigration. Shitty schools with low results and violence. High % of unemployment with most people being on benefits . High % of crime. And shitty housing projects
Thats not from reading media , thats from growing up in it , living in it and visiting those places , talking to people. I could bring up tons of stories about this but just take my word from it . Nothing really works in those places
A good example is Sodertalje where busses (public transportation) will no longer be driving into certain areas because safety concerns.
Thats a real wake up call just read that again . Public Transportation in Sweden will not drive into areas in Swedish cities cause they are
scared of what will happen .
Im sure Ikobrakai could chime in on this since I believe he lived in shitty place in stockholm
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mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa. my eagle eye isn't what it used to be. one thousand apologies for not vetting the source properly. i hope your hyper sensitive pc minds weren't too horribly triggered. here are a couple less (hopefully) hostile sources reporting on the story of migrant "children."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422000/Just-old-think-migrant-children-Alarming-pictures-shed-light-growing-scandal-amid-asylum-crisis.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3422000/Just-old-think-migrant-children-Alarming-pictures-shed-light-growing-scandal-amid-asylum-crisis.html)
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6190/sweden-refugee-children (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6190/sweden-refugee-children)
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Oh great, another racist simpleton.
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skateordie , pay no attention to Alan . Hes one of those in this thread who ignores statistics , numbers , facts and creditable sources
He refuses to see the daily mail as a creditable source yet he posts tumbler and geocities links as creditable sources
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Says the guy who refuses to read altogether.
You've misplaced your soapbox in a place where the majority doesn't care about your bigoted ranting. Re-upping this topic to remind us of your stupidity is it's only redeeming feature.
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skateordie , pay no attention to Alan . Hes one of those in this thread who ignores statistics , numbers , facts and creditable sources
He refuses to see the daily mail as a creditable source yet he posts tumbler and geocities links as creditable sources
well, the daily mail isn't a credible source.
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You can check my posts in this thread. There is one image I posted that is from Tumblr, the rest of the links are from organizations such as MSF and the UNHCR.
But yeah, pay no attention to me. Pay attention to the semi-literate high school dropout who shares your racist beliefs.
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But yeah, pay no attention to me. Pay attention to the semi-literate high school dropout who shares your racist beliefs.
Which of my beliefs are racist ? is it
1: I want to help Syrians in Syria instead of taking all the Syrians to Europe ?
2: I believe in open immigration for skilled workers no matter what race , sex or religion ?
I do enjoy the stance " Monty Burns is a racist " yet after 25 something pages nobody is still willing to point out something racist Ive said
Garth Marenghi . Since when posting statistics , facts , and media links to events bigoted ranting ? . You guys should check out Sweden right now . Most liberal and open country when it came to accepting refugees . Yet now that we have taken in too many all are rules are changing
check out the news today about how Sweden is making " age testing " for children mandatory so we dont have more 30 year olds taking the spots for children
I guess that makes the whole Swedish government and people racist now ? since they are following my views ?
Garth Marenghi The truth is you saw that I was against taking in all those people and after that you ignored all my posts on how we should help these people and all the things Ive said . You just put a label on me
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Oh great, another racist simpleton.
racist? how do you figure? the articles i linked to take issue with swedish politicians' (white ppl) policies in regards to who qualify as children, and show sympathy for the refugees (non white ppl) who have been injured/taken advantage of by these so called "children." therefore, old wise alan, i must be racist towards white ppl for posting an article which criticizes their policies, yeah?
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Regarding refugees and age testing
Sverige har tagit emot fler ensamkommande barn och unga ?n n?got annat land i Europa. Enligt Migrationsverket bed?ms tveksamheter i ?ldern finnas hos 70 procent av dem som vid asylans?kan uppgett att de ?r mellan 15 och 17 ?r, och upp till 18 000 medicinska ?ldersbed?mningar skulle d?rmed kunna beh?vas.
Sweden has accepted more alone arriving children and young adults more then any other country in europe. Acording to Migrationsverket theres doubt in about 70% of the cases that they are betwen 15 and 17 . Up to 18000 age checks are needed
I Danmark g?rs medicinska ?ldersbed?mningar redan med tv?ng. "Tv? av tre som p?st?tt sig vara barn visade sig vara vuxna", s?ger migrationsminister Inger St?jberg.
In denmark medical age testing is already mandotory " 2 out of 3 who say they are children are actually adults says danish migrationminister
Inger St?jberg.
http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2016-09-09/danska-ministern-tva-av-tre-ensamkommande-som-testades-ljog-om-sin-alder (http://www.sydsvenskan.se/2016-09-09/danska-ministern-tva-av-tre-ensamkommande-som-testades-ljog-om-sin-alder)
Sweden has taken in 35 000 " Children" from mostly north Africa and Afghanistan. Denmark says about 66% are lying and Sweden thinks about 70% are lying and need to be checked . 9 out of 10 of the 35 000 are men
70% out of 35000 is about 25000 . So that 25000 children who might not get the help they need in Sweden cause some adult is lying about his age and keeping that spot for himself . Further more this adult will be living and hanging out with children. Getting child benefits and going to school with children
Is this racist to be concerned about children not getting the help they need and children having to go to school with adults ?
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snickers
Im sure Ikobrakai could chime in on this since I believe he lived in shitty place in stockholm
Ehm, correction, the place in Stockholm is great. The old one is in another "big" (by Swedish standard, e.i. tiny) city's ghetto.
The building I lived in was a 14 story place for university students. As the waves of immigrants increased, the number of students decreased, most of them ran to other locations. Now, every single mail box is either Mohammed or Ali (real fucking original, you guys)
So yes, they will litter and break just about anything they touch. I have never seen such a rapid depreciation of a building, and I'm accounting major. Also, if you want to use common laundary, you better be able to stand your ground, some of them are pretty fucking self-entitled. Not to worry, though, burst mouth or two will send the message.
The problem is once again the fact that Sweden allows this type of shit. They are still living in the fucking 70's and think they can outsmart the problem with integration. Burst some fucking mouths and problem solved. Set some fucking standards. Why do you think people want to come here, the fucking weather? No, it's because the Swedes will provide, never demand anything and never talk back. So your average Swede will be kind and then vote for the morons from the far right in secret. "Yes, let's outsorce that job to nazi-retards so that we don't have to get involved!".
I know how this shit works, hence I have the cure. Vote for Kobrakai
Edit: I'm adding my naked torso for the dramatic effect..
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Expand Quote
Oh great, another racist simpleton.
racist? how do you figure? the articles i linked to take issue with swedish politicians' (white ppl) policies in regards to who qualify as children, and show sympathy for the refugees (non white ppl) who have been injured/taken advantage of by these so called "children." therefore, old wise alan, i must be racist towards white ppl for posting an article which criticizes their policies, yeah?
Yeah, how would Alan figure that somebody linking to an article from The Daily Stormer is a racist?
I can't believe somebody would link to a neo-Nazi website covered in swastikas and then get defensive when they are criticized as being racist. Why were you even on a pro-genocide website to begin with? This is so ridiculous...
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I hate this fucking thread but I have to chime in about the refugees "lying" about their age. I spent a year in Afghanistan and I don't think I met a single Afghan who knew how old he was and women wouldn't even talk to us. Birthdays don't matter much to them and this is regardless of class or education level. I knew a few higher up politicians/military officials who would say things like, "When I was a little kid during the Afghan-Soviet War" which would put them in their mid-30s or so, but they easily looked like they were in their late 40s-early 50s because the quality of life is so fucking bad. So consider that when you hear that they're lying about their age. Obviously there are bad and good people just like there are everywhere, but you can't lump everyone in like they're all trying to pull some massive scam. Lots of them flat out don't know their age. It's just like when we had forms for them and it says "address." They're nomads. They don't have an address. Hell, I only saw one paved road in Afghanistan that wasn't on a military base and that was Highway 1. Also, when your life is as fucked up as theirs has been and you've been traveling thousands of miles, literally, on foot and someone said, "Hey, if you say this, you'll get this" I can't exactly blame them.
And stop fucking going on about statistics and facts and then post shit from The Daily Stormer as news. Fuck off with that bullshit.
I can accept that not all know their true age . Things are way different over there and not as organised. How ever the magic ticket to get asylum in Sweden is to say you are a kid . Its not a random thing They know that if you say a certain age you will get asylum.
You cant say that 25 year old are living with 14 year olds and dont realise " Hey I might be abit older then these people " or going to school with 15 year olds when you are 20 years old and dont sense something might be up
If you are seeking asylum in Sweden and you know being under 18 or 15 is a automatic pass . Or that if you say that being under 18 or 15 will reduce your punishment . Please dont tell me people wont take advantage of that
Sweden before has determined that asking the age of refugees and in some cases doing medical age checks was a violation of their human rights . But if its true that Afghans and maybe others from the middle east and Africa dont care / know their true age why would it violate their human rights ? and wouldnt they welcome a medical check to find out what their true age is ?
And Im not sure you are talking about me ? but ill assume it since you said statistics and facts . But I didnt post any links from the daily stormer . I cant control what other people post , it has nothing to do with me
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i linked to the daily stormer. i googled "fastest 15 yr old in sweden" bc of hearing about it from a friend a while back, and clicked on/linked to one of the first sites that came up w/out properly sussing it out. i had never heard of the stormer prior to this little debacle, so, again, one thousand apologies for triggering your pc minds.
however, my point still stands-my issue is w/ the swedish politicians who are trying to pass off these adults as kids, which is taking advantage of the general population's generosity and also putting genuine refugee children in danger. if that makes me racist, then i am racist toward white ppl (swedish politicians), something you leftists should "gnar" me for instead of getting your panties in a bunch.
aaaaand, it's a sad state of affairs when a racist publication is doing more honest reporting than your beloved gray lady.
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We get it, calling out someone for linking to neo nazi websites is PC gone mad... Please fuck off and take your trolling somewhere else.
Monty, the stupidity of the "help the Syrians in Syria" trope has been addressed in this topic by a few posters. It's as if you don't want us to forget this confession:
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get .
Btw, thanks for giving money to these guys.
MSF rescuers on migrant rescue boat near Libya on why they help (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-37321778)
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We get it, calling out someone for linking to neo nazi websites is PC gone mad... Please fuck off and take your trolling somewhere else.
Monty, the stupidity of the "help the Syrians in Syria" trope has been addressed in this topic by a few posters. It's as if you don't want us to forget this confession:
Expand Quote
Ill admit Im not the smartest guy , Im a high school drop out and theres alot of shit I dont get .
Btw, thanks for giving money to these guys.
MSF rescuers on migrant rescue boat near Libya on why they help (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-37321778)
Saying we cant help Syrians in Syria is just stupid . Just as stupid as saying we cant feed all the people in the world . We could if we wanted to and it is possible to do so . We just dont do it .
Saying that the combined military power of all nations cant force the syrian conflict to end or wipe out ISIS is stupid . Of course they could . We just dont do it
Its so funny how you keep bringing up my education over and over even when Ive explained it more then 3 times . Its even funnier that you think you could make the argument that you are one of the smartest people in the world or that you get everything
We got Alan here top % of the worlds smartest who understands EVERYTHING , arguing with a high school drop out on a skateboard forum
You think I give a flying fuck if I finished high school or not ? Im a chef and a skate rat . 10 years as a chef working at some of the best places in the world and only once has my education come up , the time I had to file a VISA for Singapore
Im not sure what you are tying to point out with the MSF link ? what are you trying to say ? help me out since Im not the smartest person in the world , I am a high school drop out but a high school graduate . And I certainly dont understand everything
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Saying that the combined military power of all nations cant force the syrian conflict to end or wipe out ISIS is stupid . Of course they could . We just dont do it
I'll try to answer this in the most adult fashion.
The "combined military power" is already in Syria, too bad they support the faction that will benefit them, not the side that will establish democracy and bring peace. Even the opposition forces have a hard time finding a common goal to strive for. So hard, they cannot find a person to represent them. So now you have ISIS, Assad and opposition supporters, with several sub-groups.
The very same thing happened in Vietnam, Half the fucking world was there, in one way or the other, did not do much good.
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wow. i really triggered old wise alan w/ my little faux pas. hope you're not losing sleep over it, bud.
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I for one would happily have my country flooded with people who don't know what age is.
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i try to avoid even reading this thread because it makes my eyes puke with people quoting the daily fail and all. You really have to be mentally challenged to even spend time reading that shit.
Anyway, since help to the people in Syria has been proposed I feel obliged to suggest ways to do that; more precisely, where to start from.
That would be to STOP SELLING THEM FUCKING WEAPONS
once they run out of ammo its all tits and clits
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Swedish radio did a story the other day about how the fall of Mosul will bring back alot of Jihadists to Sweden since one of their strongholds and biggest cities will fall . So far about 300+ Swedish have left Sweden to go fight with ISIS and AQ in Syria , Afghanistan and Iraq .
The story was about how the Swedish government will handle the return of these Jihadists. The answer is with help to get a job , social benefits , free drivings license and a free home . This is unless the Swedish government can prove that you did things illegal when you were with the terror groups . The government has said that they will deal with the terrorists but out of the 140+ ex Swedish ISIS members that have returned only 2 have been given any punishment
Sweden to give ISIS fighters housing grants and free driving licences to encourage them to reintegrate into society
about 140 Swedish citizens have come back to the country having fought for terror groups in Iraq and Syria.
Defectors would be encouraged to re-enter society with incentives like housing grants and driving licences under the plans.
In a report by the national coordinator against violent extremism, Christoffer Carlsson said: 'It?s a straight social, economic and material question. You need to be able to reintegrate into the job market, you may need to have a driving licence, debt settlement and a roof over your head.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3851876/Sweden-ISIS-fighters-housing-grants-free-driving-licences-encourage-reintergrate-society.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3851876/Sweden-ISIS-fighters-housing-grants-free-driving-licences-encourage-reintergrate-society.html)
Here are the Swedish links , The first one is basicly the same story as the Daily Mail one but in Swedish and the second one is a debate article saying Terrorists have more rights and get more help in Sweden then refugees
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sa-ska-is-avhoppare-tas-emot-i-sverige/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sa-ska-is-avhoppare-tas-emot-i-sverige/)
Kommunen ska hj?lpa till med exempelvis f?rs?rjning, boende och syssels?ttning.
? Det ?r en rakt igenom social, ekonomisk och materiell fr?ga. Du beh?ver kunna ?terintegreras p? arbetsmarknaden, du beh?ver kanske ha k?rkort, skuldsanering och tak ?ver huvudet, s?ger Christoffer Carlsson, f?rfattare av en rapport fr?n Nationella samordnaren mot v?ldsbejakande extremism, till SR.
Carlsson menar att risken, om man inte f?r hj?lp n?r man ?terv?nt till Sverige, ?r att man faller tillbaka till den extremistiska milj?n.
? N?r individer l?mnar vill de l?mna till n?got annat, har man inte resurser till det s? ?r det sv?rt att f?rverkliga det.
http://www.expressen.se/kvp/kronikorer/federico-moreno/vi-ger-terrorister-fler-chanser-an-flyktingar/ (http://www.expressen.se/kvp/kronikorer/federico-moreno/vi-ger-terrorister-fler-chanser-an-flyktingar/)
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Oh and the ISIS flag is legal in Sweden
Flying the Isis flag is legal, Sweden declares
Waving the Isis flag 'is not an expression of disrespect towards any ethnic group' because Isis is 'against everyone except those who belong to Isis'
Ms Sj?vall said waving an Isis flag could not be considered hate speech, according to Hallandsposten. Incitement to racial hatred was made an offence in Sweden to protect minority groups.
But waving the Isis flag "is not an expression of disrespect towards any ethnic group," she said, because Isis is "against everyone except those who belong to Isis".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-isis-islamic-state-daesh-flag-legal-illegal-facebook-laholm-a7363211.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sweden-isis-islamic-state-daesh-flag-legal-illegal-facebook-laholm-a7363211.html)
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Our World -Sweden: Exporting Islamic Extremism BBC Documentary 2016 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnVY3R55HTo#)
(http://i.imgur.com/7EJy8UR.jpg)
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Here are the Swedish links , The first one is basicly the same story as the Daily Mail one but in Swedish and the second one is a debate article saying Terrorists have more rights and get more help in Sweden then refugees
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sa-ska-is-avhoppare-tas-emot-i-sverige/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sa-ska-is-avhoppare-tas-emot-i-sverige/)
see here is the problem with translations and people not even being able to read... the article talks about ISIS defectors, and when they return on how you can keep them away from their prior extremist environments. it also talks about the laws being strengthened to be able to punish more of these scumbags...
fuck why did i even go into this thread again
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Europe's Other Refugees
"But the deal seems to ignore the obvious. For those seeking to leave Afghanistan, rebuilt bridges, roads, and power plants have little bearing on their calculation. Many are simply trying to avoid death. According to the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA), civilian casualties have reached a new peak since the organization began publishing reports on civilian casualties in 2009. Between January 1 and September 30 of 2016, at least 2,562 civilians have been killed, while an additional 5,835 have been injured."
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/10/afghanistan-eu-ghani-asylum-taliban/504902/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/10/afghanistan-eu-ghani-asylum-taliban/504902/)
(Apologies for the lack of inflammatory, distorted, and racist content)
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Expand Quote
Here are the Swedish links , The first one is basicly the same story as the Daily Mail one but in Swedish and the second one is a debate article saying Terrorists have more rights and get more help in Sweden then refugees
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sa-ska-is-avhoppare-tas-emot-i-sverige/ (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sa-ska-is-avhoppare-tas-emot-i-sverige/)
fuck why did i even go into this thread again
These " defectors " who conveniently decided to defect as ISIS is falling to pieces ? and are loosing ground in Syria and Iraq ?
is that kind of like when you are loosing a football game 0-9 and you suddenly decide you were not taking the game seriously and you were letting the other team win ?
When ISIS lost all their strongholds and all power . When they couldnt pay you and you were running for your life to avoid being killed and sentenced for your crimes . Thats when you decided to defect and live a good life back in Europe
Sure sure , thats when you defected and realised you were wrong in your ways . Im sure they are defectors and not ISIS sleeper agents or people who got their kicks and when it failed want a good life in EU , waiting for the next jihad
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Life made it that way that I was drafted in the greek army and I serve in a greek island called Samothrace. Our island doesnt have that much of a traffic from refugees as the side that looks to Turkey have steep cliffs and is far from Turkey compared with other greek islands. However you can see the movement in the radars and the situation is desperate, in freezing cold temperatures and strong winds the sea movement is non stop towards the coasts of Lemnos and Thrace(greek mainland)..
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this thread fucking sucks :(
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I’m still evading the Greek draft in Orlando I don’t even know where I was born I have a private adoption Greek birth certificate and an American one. I’m just gonna skate cfl for the rest of my life fuck the government
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I’m still evading the Greek draft in Orlando I don’t even know where I was born I have a private adoption Greek birth certificate and an American one. I’m just gonna skate cfl for the rest of my life fuck the government
Luckily for you are eligible for the elusive double whammy:
1st you can serve in the USA military and be a part of destabilization of the Middle East.
2nd you can be drafted into the Greek army and deal with the consequences of your own actions taking care of the ensuing refugee wave.
Your soul will die, but you'll be able to write a best seller autobiography and then wipe your tears with wads of cash.
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Damn, Monty was one dense son of a bitch...