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General Discussion => Classic SLAP => Topic started by: grimcity on February 13, 2007, 07:43:54 PM

Title: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 13, 2007, 07:43:54 PM
After reading all of the IASC related threads and articles that have been linked here,  I plunked down a couple of bucks for hosting and a domain name and started working on my new pet project yesterday.

http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/

It's a satirical spoof of Blitz's site on one hand, while on the other hand a place where I could vent my side of the argument (which seems to be in line with most of you here). I gave props to the rest of the Slap Pals in the "Don't Sue Me" section, and invite anyone to email me through the site (in the "More!" section) to get their name or website added to the list.

I hope it's seen as an apt response for those of us that disagree with the IASC's tactics. It's pretty thrown-together, but I wasn't able to start on it until yesterday morning. Cheers.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 13, 2007, 07:50:33 PM
That's brilliant.

Fucking bravo, Grim.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Mentos on February 13, 2007, 07:52:44 PM
All Heil GrimCity, Our leader against the IASC scourge.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clientele. on February 13, 2007, 08:01:55 PM
good shit.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: theteabag on February 13, 2007, 08:12:15 PM
that site is great.  this dude is great.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: tag_king on February 13, 2007, 08:13:39 PM
bravo!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 13, 2007, 08:14:05 PM
hahaa!  fucking a...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: theteabag on February 13, 2007, 08:25:58 PM
oh god once again, brilliant.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: tag_king on February 13, 2007, 08:33:14 PM
it goes with out saying but keep us posted on if you get any response
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 13, 2007, 08:42:12 PM
Thanks everybody... I really appreciate it.
Also, thanks to IDKFA for alerting me to some bad spelling... if anyone else catches anything, I'll try to fix it as soon as possible.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 13, 2007, 08:44:25 PM
[grammar police en route]
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: bentmode on February 13, 2007, 08:47:05 PM
thanks for bringing up active. right now i hate active more than any other skate "megabrand" out there.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: crailtapper on February 13, 2007, 08:53:51 PM
you, sir, have a good head on your shoulders. great job!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 13, 2007, 08:57:14 PM
fuck yes.
this is probably the best response to this bullshit i've seen yet.

i hope you don't get sued. you seem to have covered your ass pretty well, but...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: j....soy..... on February 13, 2007, 08:59:23 PM
someone throw down 'a world without message boards'....
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 13, 2007, 09:04:01 PM
Spoof that Dwindle ad....

"If you don't like CEOs.....you rape kids."
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 13, 2007, 09:34:04 PM
Spoof that Dwindle ad....

"If you don't like CEOs.....you rape pro skaters' kids."
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 13, 2007, 09:38:29 PM
nice work grim.
maybe it will get some folks to think twice. 
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: 89-90pistons on February 13, 2007, 09:47:46 PM
good shit.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 13, 2007, 09:53:05 PM
That was brilliant and was dead on about the Dwindle thing. The Jamie Thomas thing was a bit speculative
and maybe not a good thing to throw in since everything you mentioned before that was based on facts only.

Good shit! I hope this thing gets resolved without any pros losing out on the careers they've dedicated time too.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 13, 2007, 09:59:26 PM
That was brilliant and was dead on about the Dwindle thing. The Jamie Thomas thing was a bit speculative
and maybe not a good thing to throw in since everything you mentioned before that was based on facts only.

Good shit! I hope this thing gets resolved without any pros losing out on the careers they've dedicated time too.

The "price point" t-shirt isn't speculation though... nearly half of the Zero shirts are one color prints. Unless the shirt comes from a poorer Mexican sweatshop, then there's nothing price point about it... it's like every other shirt Zero sells.  Admittedly, I'm pressing the issue about his wearing it, but considering where the picture was published, I doubt I'm too far off.  Jamie calculates his (and his brand's) image.

As far as a resolution goes, I'd like to see one as well... if the site is a contributing factor, so be it... if it only serves to piss off a handful of ex-skater-turned-corporate-executives, so be it as well.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Alexactly on February 13, 2007, 10:04:48 PM
Wait, then isn't the shirt "pricepoint" by virtue of being less expensive?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 13, 2007, 10:10:39 PM
I'm just saying, you did a very good job at putting in compelling facts but that may have been a tad too much.
It wasn't the shock and awe that the first 2 things were. You really left little to argue with but the Jamie thing...
I don't know.

Dang, I'm over here printing 4 color tees and selling them for cheap! What am I thinking?

I'm kind of entertained by the fact that throughout my career I knew how shady the industry is and now kids see it as well, but I don't want skaters who have pushed/pushing the sport to just get tossed away like garbage.
If that happens, I don't see it progressing as much and I don't see a steady influx of skaters wanting to do it. The
industry would be doomed in my opinion.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 13, 2007, 10:12:08 PM
Wait, then isn't the shirt "pricepoint" by virtue of being less expensive?
From my understanding, price point goods are labelled as such because they're designed and manufactured to meet that particular point...

A wheel with a four-color graphic would be your normal top-shelf wheel, but a wheel from the same company with only one color in the graphic, sold at a cheaper cost would be the price point product.

One could also make the argument that all non-pro heat transferred decks made in China should be sold at price point costs, especially when it seems that they're being sold at the same (or nearly the same) cost as some silk screened decks made in the US.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 13, 2007, 11:41:15 PM
you can trust me.everything we do is to benefit you, the buyer that we care so much about. so what if we sell you boards that are 2x as expensive as they should be. like you, we have car payments, truck payments, boat payments, hellicopter payments, personal belly massage payments, island payments, etc...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 13, 2007, 11:43:48 PM
i look forward to your opinions, sir.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 13, 2007, 11:53:29 PM
We own you... I mean we owe you!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: CDC on February 14, 2007, 12:05:55 AM
Slick website! Great stuff!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: justafan on February 14, 2007, 12:06:42 AM
your on point but

i don t think jamies the right one to diss here. he might be a little crazy handling a few things, but for the most part he s one of the better guys out there.

at least he looks out for the skaters and takes care of them whenever possible- just check the people working at blackbox; that alone speaks for itself. besides that he s treating all of his team real good- healthinsurance isn t too common in this industry.

what i m trying to say is that he gives back a whole lot and in my opinion does it the way it should be done. he owns a company so of course to some extent he wants to make money- it s natural, just look at what he s putting in and already has put in. and it s not like he doesnt give anything back.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: SOFT 7 on February 14, 2007, 12:13:15 AM
nicely done. you might find this a bit interesting, http://www.dansworld.com/meeting.html
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 12:33:49 AM
pretty interesting. Pretty lame of them trying to control who gets coverage or not.

I do agree with trying to make skating more fun. It aint no fun trying hard ass shit all the time.
When it's so proggressive the fun does get lost. just the other day at the park I was just chilling watching
the kids skate and I noticed that kids don't cheer for anything unless it's a really good trick. I was stunned cause
these kids didn't even really know how to ollie. A little goober can skate for years before someone says "yeah" after he does a trick. Then you got people vibing kids cause they aren't that good, me vibing Nate(lol), and so on.. It's gotta be tough for kids to stick with it and not get discouraged enough to quit. On top of that, it's fucking hard as fuck to get good at.

I was a nice kid before skating but I got attitude after, got schooled by life, and am now more positive and can just laugh at the cool kids instead of the not so cool kids.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 14, 2007, 12:55:22 AM
(http://img.timeinc.net/twbiz/content/images/06/cover/cover900.jpg)



http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz/features/article/0,21214,1589602,00.html
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: SOFT 7 on February 14, 2007, 12:57:54 AM
pretty interesting. Pretty lame of them trying to control who gets coverage or not.

I do agree with trying to make skating more fun. It aint no fun trying hard ass shit all the time.
When it's so proggressive the fun does get lost. just the other day at the park I was just chilling watching
the kids skate and I noticed that kids don't cheer for anything unless it's a really good trick. I was stunned cause
these kids didn't even really know how to ollie. A little goober can skate for years before someone says "yeah" after he does a trick. Then you got people vibing kids cause they aren't that good, me vibing Nate(lol), and so on.. It's gotta be tough for kids to stick with it and not get discouraged enough to quit. On top of that, it's fucking hard as fuck to get good at.

I was a nice kid before skating but I got attitude after, got schooled by life, and am now more positive and can just laugh at the cool kids instead of the not so cool kids.

did you see the date on there?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: brooklyn brawler on February 14, 2007, 01:16:31 AM
Bravo on the website, man. You're easily this month's MVP.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 01:16:53 AM
what's the point? I think it said 94.

The more i read about this iasc crap the more I don't like them. Not sure if this Iasc  is backed by those same guys who basically tried to control skating then.

Truth is, it's business. There's really no one to blame but the corpo heads. So instead of divising a way to get you the buyer to be stoked on pro boards again they try to make the buyer feel guilty? You know, maybe I would have been an advocate for this but I'll hold my breath till some real solutions get worked out.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: TEN.X.TRUTH on February 14, 2007, 01:24:31 AM
Hey NB, Amazing Shit, really.

You are a hero with some Brass ones for posting your site and being straight to the point. 

Would like to talk off camera some day and see where it leads, as we may have some insight. 

I responded thru your site. 
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: brooklyn brawler on February 14, 2007, 01:24:40 AM
If a Paypal address is set up, and we can raise funds for this website to be advertised in a magazine, even if it's just one, I'm sure this is a sure fire "first step".



Seriously. People pay that smashmyipod.com kid enough cash. I'm we could raise enough for this in Transworld.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: TEN.X.TRUTH on February 14, 2007, 01:39:56 AM
Hey Brooklyn B ... Would Transworld take the Advertising money or ...

respect the IA$C Agenda and not publish it ? 

Shit ... somebody could loose sleep over that Chicken and Egg thought huh?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 14, 2007, 01:52:02 AM
big brother is watching.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 14, 2007, 01:53:39 AM
Hey Brooklyn B ... Would Transworld take the Advertising money or ...

respect the IA$C Agenda and not publish it ? 

Shit ... somebody could loose sleep over that Chicken and Egg thought huh?
nope. transworld would cave. good night.
*tucks self into bed*
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 14, 2007, 02:09:47 AM
MUHHUUUAAAAAAAAAA~!!!!!!


we own them too!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 02:23:46 AM
not funny. the avatar is bulls eye though!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 14, 2007, 04:12:45 AM
nice work Grimicity
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 05:20:56 AM
A quick update: it looks like the site is getting passed around across the net quite a bit... it's had several hundred hits since the launch yesterday... I'll make sure to post more if this thing snowballs.
Props to everybody here (on both sides of the argument). The debates here are about 50% of the reason why I put it up. The other 50% was the IASC itself.

BEHOLD THE POWER OF SLAP
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: art hellman on February 14, 2007, 05:40:20 AM
great site.....and i think your viewpoints/arguments on the sight are well thought out and not the typcial, "fuck the IASC"
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 05:50:01 AM
great site.....and i think your viewpoints/arguments on the sight are well thought out and not the typcial, "fuck the IASC"
There was some temptation there... you gotta admit, it sums up everything nicely. haha
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: PUSH! on February 14, 2007, 07:47:07 AM
Wow...Great work.

That Dwindle Communist thing was Dead on.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 08:10:41 AM
Update: among other people that were down with being associated with the site, I got a response from Old Man Army (which means a lot to me on a personal level), as well as True Love Collective... which I think is awesome as all fuck. The site's really making some rounds now... I'm 99% stoked and 1% anxious at this point. Thanks for your help everybody.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: isaac on February 14, 2007, 08:16:12 AM
Keep up the good work man!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: mikefork on February 14, 2007, 08:17:36 AM
Update: among other people that were down with being associated with the site, I got a response from Old Man Army (which means a lot to me on a personal level), as well as True Love Collective
was it james that contacted you from true love? i hope that when the subject gets brought up between the shop owners and him they will stop being such idiots and take down all the iasc crap in the store
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 08:37:33 AM
Yeah Mike, it sure was James.

New Update: The site has just been posted up on Skate Daily... hoe-lee-chit.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 14, 2007, 08:38:01 AM
^^^^ YEAH!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: mikefork on February 14, 2007, 08:42:25 AM
Yeah Mike, it sure was James.

New Update: The site has just been posted up on Skate Daily... hoe-lee-chit.


sick hopefully it will be brought up somehow next time he's in the shop causing the owners to get off the iasc's nuts. in the other topic someone mentioned people at heroin and all the other small companies weren't stoked about blanks like the iasc is so i asked fos about the blank issue and he isn't stoked about blanks but he isn't going crazy like the iasc which is perfectly fine. hopefully everyone will learn from their mistakes and learn to shut up at a good time before things go buckwild
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 14, 2007, 08:42:56 AM
made it on skatedaily...that was pretty fast, grim...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 08:45:44 AM
No doubt, jrock... the floodgates are fucking open. haha
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: mikefork on February 14, 2007, 08:53:07 AM
off topic but oh man grim where is that dylan press kid from that is mentioned on the friends page?
we had a sponsor me video from him/a different dylan press and it was so funny. he had a lightning bolt come down and strike a board and it looked so cheasy

back on the subject: i wonder how long its going to be when you can receive the same amount of relevant results on google when you replace a world without pros to a world without ceos. i bet everyone at the iasc is in their office either kicking themselves in the ass or throwing darts at the picture of you trying to think how they can seem more "core" and make us look like the enemies
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: tonycoxhox on February 14, 2007, 08:57:00 AM
Damn, grim, that is awesome!

Thanks. That kind of site needed to get made.

You are one of my internet heros!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 08:59:55 AM
off topic but oh man grim where is that dylan press kid from that is mentioned on the friends page?
we had a sponsor me video from him/a different dylan press and it was so funny. he had a lightning bolt come down and strike a board and it looked so cheasy
Not a clue man! He just hit me up and asked to be added.

Quote
back on the subject: i wonder how long its going to be when you can receive the same amount of relevant results on google when you replace a world without pros to a world without ceos. i bet everyone at the iasc is in their office either kicking themselves in the ass or throwing darts at the picture of you trying to think how they can seem more "core" and make us look like the enemies
hahahaha, that invokes some really great imagery...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fahque on February 14, 2007, 09:02:48 AM
holy shit . reading this gave me goose bumps.... you couldnt have said it any more clear..... thank you.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 09:09:40 AM
An ex AISC member just sent me some internal AISC campaign idea memos... I'll be posting them shortly. Of note:

Quote
   Super tour “the sacred skateboard tour”
   Top pro’s from all brands go on a tour to promote pro skateboarding
   Stop at key locations promoting only top skateboard brands
   Sell video to reinvest into tour
    “Skaters are rebels” Reggie Barnes
   “…If we create campaigns trying to sway skateboarders they will possibly rebel against it and go even more to non branded boards”
   Don’t be too subtle- we’re talking to 14 year olds, make it more direct so it doesn’t take them a lot of time/effort to get it, don’t make it too adult.
   Focus on the pros communicating message
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 14, 2007, 09:15:35 AM
oh man, this shit is getting pretty Enron...we should all learn to carve our own boards out of logs like our ancestors did...long live grim, and long live the small company...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 14, 2007, 09:19:40 AM
reggie fucking barnes.
when did freestylers take over skateboarding?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: mikefork on February 14, 2007, 09:21:17 AM
hey grim since you took the initiative to make the site to help represent us why not plan a go skate harder that the iascs go skate day day?
it wouldn't be that hard and you wouldn't have to actually fund anything just make up some event on the same day as theirs and just have a "plan"
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 14, 2007, 09:25:16 AM
An ex AISC member just sent me some internal AISC campaign idea memos... I'll be posting them shortly. Of note:

Quote
Expand Quote
   Super tour “the sacred skateboard tour”
   Top pro’s from all brands go on a tour to promote pro skateboarding
   Stop at key locations promoting only top skateboard brands
   Sell video to reinvest into tour
    “Skaters are rebels” Reggie Barnes
   “…If we create campaigns trying to sway skateboarders they will possibly rebel against it and go even more to non branded boards”
   Don’t be too subtle- we’re talking to 14 year olds, make it more direct so it doesn’t take them a lot of time/effort to get it, don’t make it too adult.
   Focus on the pros communicating message
[close]

this is disgusting.  this is basically proof that they are consolidating in order to monopolize the skateboard industry and force out small businesses.  this goes against everything all of these companies stood for when they were created.  this is some kind of shit Vision would have done...and we all know what happened to Vision...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 14, 2007, 09:28:46 AM
when did freestylers take over skateboarding?

Shit, the only one that didn't take over was Primo.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 14, 2007, 09:36:32 AM
he's still doing doubles routines with his wife apparently.
per- blitz
pierre andre-sole tech
reggie barnes-south shore
rodney- dwindle
rocco-dwindle
 whats kevin harris up to?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 14, 2007, 09:46:50 AM
Dunno what he's up to but this graphic of his made me want to buy a freestyle board.

(http://socalskateshop.com/images/products/harrismountie2TN.jpg)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: beeda weeda on February 14, 2007, 09:49:20 AM
grimcitty, good job, you really love skateboarding, its sick.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Ronald Wilson Reagan on February 14, 2007, 09:58:43 AM
Nice shit Grim. Well put. Somebody needs to point out how hypocritical these jerks are being
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fido on February 14, 2007, 10:03:08 AM
Just for the record, True Love Collective has no issue with the IASC, and they are NOT down for blank boards.  They do, however, believe that shops have every right to do what they need to do to support themselves, as they are the ones who are trully LIVING skateboarding, every day, and who are 100% invested in their local scene (or at least SHOULD be).  Why should shops not have their own boards, with a higher margin?  Who says that they should make less money than all the big companies? What right do all these larger companies have to tell them they SHOULDN'T make a decent living?  If these companies were doing their jobs all along, and REALLY supporting skateboarding and real skate shops, this would never be an issue.  Most of the shops I go into actually get their boards made HERE in the USA, at SKATER OWNED woodshops.  Some of these huge companies have recently STOPPED getting quality, US made boards, or even quality Chinese made boards that are at least done in factories owned by skateboarders over there, and have switched to bullshit boards that no doubt cost a lot less.  Just pick up some of these boards and look for that telltale serial number between the truck bolts, it's gone.  
To be fair, some of the larger companies (like DLX and Black Box) are UNQUESTIONABLY down for skateboarding, you really cannot deny it with any rational argument.  Some others are obviously just trying to make money at this point.  Remember Vision?  
I'm rambling, sorry.  The point here is that until the bigger brands actually do something REAL to help the real skate shops, they have NO RIGHT to whine about dwindling sales.
And kids, for the record, you want to support skateboarding?  DON'T buy a board, blank pro or otherwise, at the fucking MALL.  
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 10:04:53 AM
fido, I agree 100%.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 14, 2007, 10:05:42 AM
and whats stopping the mall stores from just dumping pro boards with higher margins completely and doing there own private label skateboard company? mall kids don't know any better and dont care, if they retailed for 39.99 and had shitty trendy graphics similar to those used by speed demons i have no doubts theyd sell a shit load.
the skateboard industry may have shot themselves in the foot, both feet actually.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Tobias Funke on February 14, 2007, 10:08:21 AM
he's still doing doubles routines with his wife apparently.
per- blitz
pierre andre-sole tech
reggie barnes-south shore
rodney- dwindle
rocco-dwindle
 whats kevin harris up to?

Kevin Harris owns Ultimate Distribution in Canada.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 14, 2007, 10:14:08 AM
reggie fucking barnes.
when did freestylers take over skateboarding?
around 1989.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: mikefork on February 14, 2007, 10:27:38 AM
Just for the record, True Love Collective has no issue with the IASC, and they are NOT down for blank boards. 
thats a no brainer. i got this message from fos about blanks
"Not psyched on them.
We've done what we can as a company to bring the price of boards down in this country. We barely make anything on them as it is, and if this isn't suppported then it makes things hard for companies to continue. The market in Britain used to be US boards at £60. That was pretty much it.
If a shop only sold blank products everyone would say how crap the shop is. Brands are the reason that shops are interesting to customers, thats what brings the customers to shops.
Even as a kid growing up in Burnley with NO MONEY at all I never rode blanks. I always thought that they were lame.
My 2p worth. "

i was saying that the people at the shop are blindly following the iasc and getting tricked by them. the people at my shop are too hateful sometimes and will jump aboard something without hearing both sides of a story
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Math Professor on February 14, 2007, 10:54:36 AM
You need to get a job designing some skate companies websites.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: truthbetold on February 14, 2007, 11:03:05 AM
he's still doing doubles routines with his wife apparently.
per- blitz
pierre andre-sole tech
reggie barnes-south shore
rodney- dwindle
rocco-dwindle
 whats kevin harris up to?

Reggie Barnes- Eastern Skateboard Supply
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 11:09:06 AM
You need to get a job designing some skate companies websites.
I do our shop site for free, but that's out of 100% love for the place. I don't know if I'd like to get paid for doing skate-related stuff. As it stands, the fun part is the payment... plus I have a good day job (unrelated to skateboarding, but related to being a geek).
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 14, 2007, 11:42:20 AM
An ex AISC member just sent me some internal AISC campaign idea memos... I'll be posting them shortly. Of note:

Quote
Expand Quote
   Super tour “the sacred skateboard tour”
   Top pro’s from all brands go on a tour to promote pro skateboarding
   Stop at key locations promoting only top skateboard brands
   Sell video to reinvest into tour
    “Skaters are rebels” Reggie Barnes
   “…If we create campaigns trying to sway skateboarders they will possibly rebel against it and go even more to non branded boards”
   Don’t be too subtle- we’re talking to 14 year olds, make it more direct so it doesn’t take them a lot of time/effort to get it, don’t make it too adult.
   Focus on the pros communicating message
[close]

first off i would like to say good job on the site neal! your ideas are very insightful and inspiring. im definetly backing jamie thomas though, i think he has a lot of good ideas in the works that have not come to light yet but im sure time will show...

but as far as that guys campaign ideas go? taking top pros on tour? how about send the guys that are actually strugling as pros or been forced to be "exproed" on tour, i dont think that anyone in that ditch photo is really sttruggling to pay bills, there pro shoe(zumiez ,pac sun and others) are keeping them high paid. i know people might argue this as oversaturating the market, but im pretty sure guys like ricky oyola and other smaller noted dudes could use a helping hand.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 11:52:09 AM
Thanks Jayme, I really appreciate it. I respect your opinion about JT, I'm just throwing mine out there, you know? At least from an outsider's perspective, or even better, from this outsider's perspective.

Thanks again man. Do me a favor and punch "Middle School" in the arm for me... tell him to come back and see us over here.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: noah on February 14, 2007, 11:58:00 AM
nice work bro
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Math Professor on February 14, 2007, 12:02:18 PM
Expand Quote
You need to get a job designing some skate companies websites.
[close]
I do our shop site for free, but that's out of 100% love for the place. I don't know if I'd like to get paid for doing skate-related stuff. As it stands, the fun part is the payment... plus I have a good day job (unrelated to skateboarding, but related to being a geek).
Hell... don't do it for the money... keep your day job and design skate company sites for some pro-endorsed PRODUCT.  Seriously though... good work on the site.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 14, 2007, 12:04:52 PM
im getting everyone in the area to check out the site and learn this shit because it seems at the park, unless they have been to the forum, they have no idea about the iasc, the blank board thing, pros turning into a bunch of fucking popstars, and the possibility of skateboarding dying because of a bunch of filthy rich, greedy freestylers.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: gub on February 14, 2007, 12:06:04 PM
i agree, well done
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Ronald Wilson Reagan on February 14, 2007, 12:19:12 PM
Can you mention the fact that professional skateboarding has never been as lucrative as it is nowadays. If it was 93 or something and it was normal for our favorite pros to quit in their mid 20's to get a "real job" they might have an argument. But have you seen Terry Kennedy's bling?!? And thats TERRY KENNEDY!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 12:19:54 PM
Update: The what-appear-to-be AISC documents are up:
http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/IASC%20Campaign%20ideas.doc

http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/IASC%20Communication%20Brief.doc
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 12:26:07 PM
Can you mention the fact that professional skateboarding has never been as lucrative as it is nowadays. If it was 93 or something and it was normal for our favorite pros to quit in their mid 20's to get a "real job" they might have an argument. But have you seen Terry Kennedy's bling?!? And thats TERRY KENNEDY!
image sells. This aint rap/rock industry yet personality gets exploited and stars are made.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 12:31:43 PM
Fellas, the site rules! Now it's time for solutions. I like to see these shady pigs get exposed but it shouldn't stop there. Hey grim, how bout setting up a solution thread? Have all the kids chime in and brainstorm some possible solutions on your site? You're the man for the site, but if you actually come up with a solution that makes sense you're a hero.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 14, 2007, 12:33:34 PM
Fellas, the site rules! Now it's time for solutions. I like to see these shady pigs get exposed but it shouldn't stop there. Hey grim, how bout setting up a solution thread? Have all the kids chime in and brainstorm some possible solutions on your site? You're the man for the site, but if you actually come up with a solution that makes sense you're a hero.

I have a solution... buy pro boards or else!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 14, 2007, 12:36:43 PM
I think exposing these greedy pricks is a big part of the solution. Really the battle here is a battle of information. The IASC is pushing one message and Grim is calling them out.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 12:38:32 PM
Yeah, and it's great for the simple fact that we'll see thru the bs, but in the end it's not accomplishing anything really substantial.  You usually have  a problem and then a solution.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 14, 2007, 12:40:07 PM
I agree but the problem here is the IASC trying to make people feel guilty for buying shop boards and blanks while the industry is at an all time high, right?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 12:42:54 PM
I agree but the problem here is the IASC trying to make people feel guilty for buying shop boards and blanks while the industry is at an all time high, right?

I can't really dissagree... DOH!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: isaac on February 14, 2007, 12:47:23 PM
If the IASC wants to stop people from buying blanks they need to present an option for the kids. Price point boards from companies aren't as cheap as blanks, so the companies should try and make them close to that price, within a couple of bucks.

Or do what Real did back in the day, do a small graphic on the board and leave the rest black, thereby cutting down on the production costs even more. Even a one color silkscreen would be cost effective, i think.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 12:48:52 PM
that's what I'm thinking. It's logical.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 14, 2007, 12:50:33 PM
^^^^ ive always personally liked a one color screened board more. remember the old muska one that had his name in white on a black board. i loved that shit when i was younger. plus its a solid background for some great drawings.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 12:55:35 PM
Update: I've just uploaded some email corresponence I had with Dwindle. I made it into a Word document:
http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/dwindle.doc

Sanch: as far as solutions go, I'd love to brainstorm something, but right now I'm fielding more emails than I've ever seen in my life.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 14, 2007, 12:59:19 PM
Or do what Real did back in the day, do a small graphic on the board and leave the rest black, thereby cutting down on the production costs even more. Even a one color silkscreen would be cost effective, i think.

(http://www.activemailorder.com/etc/images/product/DBBXFAL.jpg)

This is full price.  $54.99 with grip.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 14, 2007, 01:06:50 PM
he's still doing doubles routines with his wife apparently.
per- blitz
pierre andre-sole tech
reggie barnes-south shore
rodney- dwindle
rocco-dwindle
 whats kevin harris up to?

don brown - sole technology
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 01:08:17 PM
Update: I've just uploaded some email corresponence I had with Dwindle. I made it into a Word document:
http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/dwindle.doc

Sanch: as far as solutions go, I'd love to brainstorm something, but right now I'm fielding more emails than I've ever seen in my life.

lol!!!!

Good shit!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 14, 2007, 01:10:22 PM
Update: I've just uploaded some email corresponence I had with Dwindle. I made it into a Word document:
http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/dwindle.doc

Sanch: as far as solutions go, I'd love to brainstorm something, but right now I'm fielding more emails than I've ever seen in my life.

you should ask that guy about speed demons blanks.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: SOFT 7 on February 14, 2007, 01:18:33 PM
what's the point? I think it said 94.

The more i read about this iasc crap the more I don't like them. Not sure if this Iasc  is backed by those same guys who basically tried to control skating then.


I just think its funny that almost the same arguments were being presented by industry heads 14 years ago. FOURTEEN YEARS AGO.

JSOY is right... 'A world without messageboards'
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sk8fanatic on February 14, 2007, 01:21:45 PM
I read the entire report and I dont remember anywhere reading to 'not support' shop decks. I believe it is only refering to 'blank' decks.

I think these CEOs are bullshit for the most part, if your company is struggling then maybe you need to get a better team, better product, and better pricing. We have huge sucess at our shop with Girl/Choco/habitat/AWS. I am fuckin hyped to know neither of those companies is part of this conspiracy. Our deck wall is 80%skate co./20% shops decks, and we have never carried blank decks.

My 2 cents
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 14, 2007, 01:24:44 PM
I read the entire report and I dont remember anywhere reading to 'not support' shop decks. I believe it is only refering to 'blank' decks.

I think these CEOs are bullshit for the most part, if your company is struggling then maybe you need to get a better team, better product, and better pricing. We have huge sucess at our shop with Girl/Choco/habitat/AWS. I am fuckin hyped to know neither of those companies is part of this conspiracy. Our deck wall is 80%skate co./20% shops decks, and we have never carried blank decks.

My 2 cents

dna is part of this shit though. and most blanks are way better quality than crailtap boards.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 14, 2007, 01:26:33 PM
I read the entire report and I dont remember anywhere reading to 'not support' shop decks. I believe it is only refering to 'blank' decks.

I think these CEOs are bullshit for the most part, if your company is struggling then maybe you need to get a better team, better product, and better pricing. We have huge sucess at our shop with Girl/Choco/habitat/AWS. I am fuckin hyped to know neither of those companies is part of this conspiracy. Our deck wall is 80%skate co./20% shops decks, and we have never carried blank decks.

My 2 cents
You have to look beyond the report and read other IASC statements concerning boards (that include stated opinions on shop decks):
http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz/features/article/0,21214,1559572,00.html
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fahque on February 14, 2007, 01:27:32 PM
and blanks have never even entered here either. at least our shop decks are made by a legitimate woodshop and not by some guy cashing in on " the whole skateboard thing"...... skateboard shops are the new scapegoat.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 14, 2007, 01:31:29 PM
and blanks have never even entered here either. at least our shop decks are made by a legitimate woodshop and not by some guy cashing in on " the whole skateboard thing"...... skateboard shops are the new scapegoat.

all you guys realise that a skateboard is blank before the graphic is screened right?
there are good and shitty blanks just the same as there are good and shitty pro boards and good and shitty shop boards.
if anyone is concerned that me buying blanks is "taking money out of skating" then the solution is to make fucking blanks because i'm not paying for a pretty picture or some shitbags name anymore.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 14, 2007, 01:34:39 PM
our shop carries the good brands like girl habitat city blah blah. no dwindle products at all, no boards, no globes, none of that garbage. we also carry blanks for the kids that are broke or the kids who have a harder life and dont have parents who can drop $90 canadian ever time the kid lands funny trying to learn varial flips and breaks a board. i dont give a shit whos pocket the money comes out of, its about the skateboarders and the most important ones arent me you or the pros, its that little kid whos only real enjoyment in life is skating. he could have a great life and love skating, but he could also have the most terrible life at home, live in a ghetto, have his friends hooked on smack, and his only way out of that world everyday is to go flatground. you think someone in that situation can afford to spend that fucking much on a board? "wont someone please think of the children"


any members and any pros reading this right now, fuck you.

Sincerely, The little guy.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 01:47:19 PM
atta boy Guile, fuck you too!

That's true though. Skating is much bigger than you, I , and the Iasc. If we wanted to get controlled we probably wouldn't have skated.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: cliff on February 14, 2007, 01:49:37 PM
Thanks dude my phone juct got cut off.


















just kidding, but it is really cut off.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 14, 2007, 01:55:05 PM
don't your parents own a skate shop?

have you ever paid for a board?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Maple Syrup on February 14, 2007, 01:56:02 PM
Expand Quote
and blanks have never even entered here either. at least our shop decks are made by a legitimate woodshop and not by some guy cashing in on " the whole skateboard thing"...... skateboard shops are the new scapegoat.
[close]

all you guys realise that a skateboard is blank before the graphic is screened right?
there are good and shitty blanks just the same as there are good and shitty pro boards and good and shitty shop boards.
if anyone is concerned that me buying blanks is "taking money out of skating" then the solution is to make fucking blanks because i'm not paying for a pretty picture or some shitbags name anymore.

but making blanks would make the skate companies lose money. do you really think it costs 20$ to put paint on a board?  im happy the blank decks are around, theyre pretty much all i skate now.  once again, its your own money until you spend it, no one elses, so fuck anyone who thinks theyre entitled to it.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Blue Fescue on February 14, 2007, 02:00:54 PM
I don't know what Reggie Barnes has to complain about, being from Wilmington where Eastern Skate Supply is based I have seen his custom motorcycles and heard rumors of a personal plane and private island.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: theroyaltrout on February 14, 2007, 02:05:39 PM
I find it ironic that while they are bitching about blank boards andrew reynolds just released this as his pro model
(http://www.activemailorder.com/etc/images/product/DBBXFAL.jpg)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: isaac on February 14, 2007, 02:10:18 PM
if they charged less than standard for that board then they would have the higher ground and could legitimatly bitch about how the blank board companies are taking away sales.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 14, 2007, 02:38:34 PM
Thanks Jayme, I really appreciate it. I respect your opinion about JT, I'm just throwing mine out there, you know? At least from an outsider's perspective, or even better, from this outsider's perspective.

Thanks again man. Do me a favor and punch "Middle School" in the arm for me... tell him to come back and see us over here.

thanks for this site again neal! i love to hear everyones opnion and i definetly agree with every single drop of hate targeted towards dwindle (no offense to james or any of there riders) that dwindle ad seems like there trying to rekindle some of there avant gaurd ,witty advertising from the 90's, the only problem is that they seem to have non creative shmucks holding there cards now. rocco was at least edgy and creative. i hope that enjoi, blind and almost dont take team losses over this campaign, they have alot of great skateboaders and kind people working for them. as far as globe goes? this picture somes it up.

http://getcreepy.com/news/dates/7_19_06/jayme_globe.jpg (edit: no offense to appleyard or any of there riders)


i will definetly kick middleschool in the balls and get him to drive my ass out there this summer!

rodney and daewon need to call all the shots over there, it seems like it could make dwindle more respectible again.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 14, 2007, 02:47:17 PM
can i get a shirt of this:

(http://getcreepy.com/news/dates/7_19_06/jayme_globe.jpg)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 14, 2007, 02:47:48 PM
everyone in norcal needs to go see the terd life premier this weekend, im sure the good folks at enjoi will be there...............congrats to cam cam for getting the vid done!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 14, 2007, 02:50:55 PM

rodney and daewon need to call all the shots over there, it seems like it could make dwindle more respectible again.

really? a-team, deca, artafact, tensor.
good skaters.
no fucking clue about how to make a good company.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 14, 2007, 03:04:08 PM
Expand Quote

rodney and daewon need to call all the shots over there, it seems like it could make dwindle more respectible again.
[close]

really? a-team, deca, artafact, tensor.
good skaters.
no fucking clue about how to make a good company.


there is a difference between having control and having creative control, all i was trying to say is id rather see there skateboarders call the shots, and um, rodney+marc=enjoi
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 14, 2007, 03:09:49 PM
i'd love rodney to run a dope company, i think he's a fucking genius.
but he seriously has no clue, sheckler, tensor, $100 kevlar decks, that's all rodney.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: akimpy0b on February 14, 2007, 04:08:32 PM
they shuld make pro models the same price as blanks ...cause some people dont have that kinda money to just blow on boards,i heard it was like 7 $ to actually make a board for the company.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: noah on February 14, 2007, 04:17:47 PM
my local shop is starting to get shop decks and the owner told me he makes the same amount on a shop deck as he does on a pro model/ major brand board
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fake account on February 14, 2007, 04:44:42 PM
(http://4imgs.com/227/x/SUS020_FULL.jpg)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Maple Syrup on February 14, 2007, 04:56:50 PM
my local shop is starting to get shop decks and the owner told me he makes the same amount on a shop deck as he does on a pro model/ major brand board

even if they get the same amount of money, its that cash plus the extra advertisement for their shop.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 14, 2007, 05:05:47 PM
Plus you get twice as many shop decks as you do pro boards for the same price.
sometimes more. obviously you're by passing the pro's,company etc but the fact still remains, if you hustle and search you can find good us made shop decks that you can keystone (double your cost) vs a 45% margin on most, if even that.  And people are repping you and your shop,which for a small time shop that is thee most important part of a shop deck.
advertising.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: noah on February 14, 2007, 05:15:46 PM
i'm definately going to ride a few, but keep it even with 5boro decks. they aren't pissing and moaning about blanks and they're a coming that gives back.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 06:01:49 PM
(http://4imgs.com/227/x/SUS020_FULL.jpg)
WTF ARE THOSE UGLY THINGS?

MICHEAL JACKSON PRO SIG THRILLER BOOTS?

NEIL ARMSTRONG MOONWALK TRIBUTES?

BLING GONE BAD SHOES?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 14, 2007, 06:04:45 PM
i think thats the "muska" supras?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 06:07:30 PM
MUSKA'S IN LEFT FIELD WITH THAT ONE BUT I LOVE THE DUDE TO DEATH!

DUDE IS SOO COOL. I THOUGHT RIDING FOR GHETTO CHILD WAS THE RADDEST THING.
I SHOULD HAVE NEVER QUIT THAT COMPANY FOR GOLD.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: gub on February 14, 2007, 06:43:21 PM
sanch u did that
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 14, 2007, 07:21:12 PM
i think thats the "muska" supras?

did you notice the subliminal swastika?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 14, 2007, 09:46:05 PM
hahahha i noticed that too, poor chad, he means well but hes really a complete kook. between the michael jackson gloves and the gnar boots im hoping hes heavily into acid or something. there needs to be an excuse.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 14, 2007, 10:16:10 PM
http://web.archive.org/web/20031207053617/http://dwindle.com/chopchop/

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 14, 2007, 10:26:30 PM
when did they release this news, yesterday?

Swift response to the slap discussions we've been having?

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: barneytarney on February 14, 2007, 10:28:52 PM
Plus you get twice as many shop decks as you do pro boards for the same price.
sometimes more. obviously you're by passing the pro's,company etc but the fact still remains, if you hustle and search you can find good us made shop decks that you can keystone (double your cost) vs a 45% margin on most, if even that.  And people are repping you and your shop,which for a small time shop that is thee most important part of a shop deck.
advertising.

you have the best signature ever.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: truthbetold on February 14, 2007, 10:32:55 PM
my local shop is starting to get shop decks and the owner told me he makes the same amount on a shop deck as he does on a pro model/ major brand board
That owner is lying to you...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 14, 2007, 10:34:45 PM
really?
 pro deck cost -35, retail -50= 15 made
 shop deck cost-18 retail-35= 17 made
do the math.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: truthbetold on February 14, 2007, 10:48:34 PM
$18  for a shop deck with graphics is way to much. I use to sell shop decks with graphics for $15.50 in 2006.
The wood came from an american woodshop to.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 14, 2007, 11:07:58 PM
with shipping and grip its 18.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Meta Skateboards on February 14, 2007, 11:14:20 PM
Lets set it straight.

The dollars made on a shop deck sold are around the same as that as a pro deck sold.  Not every pro deck costs $35, not every shop deck costs $18.  But the difference is simply stated, its easier to invest for double the product.  There are a bunch of companies that don't exist on the $35 a board guidelines.  If you are shop and you get a good discount on current stock at a lower price, honor those price breaks.  One of the reasons companies are skeptical about giving price breaks is that some shitty ass shop is not going to give the price break back to the consumer.  If company A wants to help compete with your shop decks by offering discounts, then pass on the fucking discount.  By the way Company A probably isn't a greedy cooporation and probably wants to help and promote skateboarding.






Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Meta Skateboards on February 14, 2007, 11:20:39 PM
Plus after all this Blankboard/Shop deck shit has ended.  I'm sure that every legitimate company will probably want to work with every legitimate shop.     
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 14, 2007, 11:30:03 PM
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/camm122/522.jpg)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 15, 2007, 05:52:59 AM
For anyone still following this thing:
1. The Dwindle email document was updated twice since I uploaded it. They never countered to my statements regarding the sales of skate stuff through chain/mall stores.

2. The hits have been insane... thousands of people from allover the globe. I've been getting hundreds of emails, too... nearly every single one in support of the site. Funny thing though... many of the emails have been coming from shops and inner-industry people who are stoked, but they're afraid to have their name on the site for fear of retribution. How fucked is that?

3. I've answered every single email, except for the last one from Dwindle... mainly because the conversation was meandering.

4. I have some IASC campaign-related emails that were forwarded to me. I'll try to put those up when I get home from work tonight (damn, I gotta go to work).
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: deadgregory on February 15, 2007, 06:24:36 AM
so good.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: noah on February 15, 2007, 06:30:36 AM
http://web.archive.org/web/20031207053617/http://dwindle.com/chopchop/




when was this released, seems like they say it was all rodney mullen no one else supported it
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Assistant Janitor on February 15, 2007, 06:57:53 AM
An Update From The Crew At Dwindle

Posted 01.27.2004 - http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz/print/0,21538,708308,00.html

"We can't keep our plan a secret anymore. Dwindle Distribution is producing skateboard decks in China."

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 15, 2007, 07:39:31 AM
Lets set it straight.

The dollars made on a shop deck sold are around the same as that as a pro deck sold.  Not every pro deck costs $35, not every shop deck costs $18.  But the difference is simply stated, its easier to invest for double the product.  There are a bunch of companies that don't exist on the $35 a board guidelines.  If you are shop and you get a good discount on current stock at a lower price, honor those price breaks.  One of the reasons companies are skeptical about giving price breaks is that some shitty ass shop is not going to give the price break back to the consumer.  If company A wants to help compete with your shop decks by offering discounts, then pass on the fucking discount.  By the way Company A probably isn't a greedy cooporation and probably wants to help and promote skateboarding.
you can find companies that do have a lower wholesale price, a few are between 20-30 but generally if it's for one of the bigger companies out there it's a standard 34.95-37.00 per deck.plus shipping unless you take the time to wait until someone offers a free shipping deal. a few companies are doing it right and offering up really good discounts. buy 8 boards get one free, buy 12 get 2 free. which for a shop brings the price wayyyy down, or gives a shop employee owner a chance to ride one of there boards without begging a rep for something free.
and if you are doing a good shop deck, quantities around 150 boards youre paying around 16-17 a board plus shipping. if its multiple colors then sometimes even more.
personally id rather just hook a deal up with a company and buy 100 team boards for 22-25 and flip em for 39.99 so that way a company is getting some business and maybe they could flow a few boards for shop riders. seems like everyone wins in that case.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Edward Penishands on February 15, 2007, 08:43:17 AM
yo grim, you kinda look like a white harold hunter

straight props yo
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: brooklyn brawler on February 15, 2007, 10:01:59 AM
Yo, Grim, I said this before, but I'll say it again.


I'm strongly in favour of you setting up a Paypal account for donations to raise money for an ad.


Everyone should donate just to have one ad for this site put out in a magazine. At least just see who has the balls to let it get printed.


SBC in Canada let Mike Hastie say, "West 49 was the worst thing for skateboarding in Canada", with the mag freely knowing they'd lose the sponsors (which eventually happened), but couldn't give a shit. They just got Power Shoes or something to fill in that page.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fahque on February 15, 2007, 10:05:05 AM
great idea. where do i donate?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: brooklyn brawler on February 15, 2007, 10:21:01 AM
Grim, your call.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 15, 2007, 10:28:22 AM
I'll donate if the Ad gives props out to the slap heads
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 15, 2007, 10:49:28 AM
I'll donate if the Ad gives props out to the slap heads

Me deuce.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Mentos on February 15, 2007, 10:53:10 AM
But no one has made those 'Fuck the IASC' boards yet.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 15, 2007, 11:18:00 AM
Damn, I don't know... I don't want to put anything money related on the site because I'm afraid that the wrong message will be sent... I mean, not everyone that looks at the site knows me as everyone here knows me (not that you all know me real well, but I think you all know I'm a human with a skateboard).

I honestly don't know if it even needs an ad... the site has been getting a hitload of hits...

Don't get me wrong, I'd be stoked if there was an ad, hell, I'd even design something print-ready, but I really don't want to ask for a dime on the site... I especially don't want to handle anyone's money. I'm a kook, I'd just feel really weird doing that.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 15, 2007, 11:22:20 AM
PS
Jim Gray and ABC are on the site's lists... I just had a phone call with him, and as much as he got slammed in the Jim thread, he's taking a risk by being affiliated with the site. I'm not taking sides for or against anyone with a beef on him, but I'm glad he was willing to put his name out there.

/just sayin'
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 15, 2007, 11:34:58 AM
Damn, I don't know... I don't want to put anything money related on the site because I'm afraid that the wrong message will be sent... I mean, not everyone that looks at the site knows me as everyone here knows me (not that you all know me real well, but I think you all know I'm a human with a skateboard).

I honestly don't know if it even needs an ad... the site has been getting a hitload of hits...

Don't get me wrong, I'd be stoked if there was an ad, hell, I'd even design something print-ready, but I really don't want to ask for a dime on the site... I especially don't want to handle anyone's money. I'm a kook, I'd just feel really weird doing that.

an ad would be dumb.
the magazines are as much a part of this shit as everyone else, i doubt they'd take it, i mean they've agreed not to run pictures of people skating blanks right? but anyway putting money in their pocket would be stupid.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: brooklyn brawler on February 15, 2007, 12:05:28 PM
Magazine's aren't dry with ads right now. One leaves and another will come.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Matze on February 15, 2007, 01:13:55 PM
much love for your work grimcity!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: brooklyn brawler on February 15, 2007, 01:17:41 PM
I'm taking back my idea. Word of mouth/click probably gets the point across quicker and to the right people.

Screw the mag ad idea.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 15, 2007, 02:04:02 PM
big brother is watching!

Muhhhhhuaaaaaa!!!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: thewire on February 15, 2007, 02:38:54 PM
yo grim I just sent you a message about this but I wanted to drop this knowledge into the board as well.....

pretty damn sure that syndrome dist. sells blank boards made in their mexican woodshop to shops across the country....

I wonder what mckay, way, and pj have to say about that fact.  Um, can someone say ignorant hypocrites?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Peter on February 15, 2007, 02:43:39 PM
how many hits so far grim?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: gub on February 15, 2007, 03:01:31 PM
yo grim I just sent you a message about this but I wanted to drop this knowledge into the board as well.....

pretty damn sure that syndrome dist. sells blank boards made in their mexican woodshop to shops across the country....

I wonder what mckay, way, and pj have to say about that fact. Um, can someone say ignorant hypocrites?

i don't think that's any big secret though, syndrome called a friend of mine's shop last week asking to press their shop boards (for a higher price than he was already paying of course..)

Way & co. would probably respond that at least if you're buying a syndrome blank you're supporting a company that will "reinvest in skating" and "supports pros" etc. whether those pros include the likes of the INC roster is something the consumer has to decide for himself I suppose.....
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: photowill on February 15, 2007, 03:13:00 PM
Is it possible to make this bigger? Is it possible to spread this message so that every skater on the internet knows what's going on and that people that were once real skateboarders are now trying to control us? I don't think this website is enough, I don't think this ad is enough, we need some way to promote this so much that everyone knows. Fliers, stickers, stencils, anything..kind of like that "don't do it" type shit.

website is fucking fantastic though, I made sure to read everything, you said everything us skaters were thinking. Is there an official email that the IASC has so we can send this link to them? they've probably seen the site already but it'd be nice just to keep reminding them.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 15, 2007, 03:17:50 PM
i forwarded the two seperate sites to everyone i know, so they get both sides of the story but so they can see that we are about to get a 12 foot long ceo dildo jammed in our overpriced boardholes
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: 89-90pistons on February 15, 2007, 03:18:08 PM
As lame as it sounds, start a myspace group.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 15, 2007, 03:32:07 PM
how many hits so far grim?
Yesterday it was somewhere around 3,500... it's a little over 2k right now.

The emails are coming in by the hundreds... so far, no hate mail.

Also, I've been on the phone a bit... I've spoken with Jim Gray, who was a pleasure to talk to, Mic-E, who is rad, though he feels like I've come on a bit strong... and he brought up something similar to Sanch's idea about a positive part of the site. Maybe with everyone's help we can do a "solutions" part for the site... SANCH GETS FULL CREDIT, haha.

One really cool thing about my talk with Mic-E is that he understood that what the site represents is a general feeling among a LOT of us (as seen in the traffic of the site and the shiltoad of emails I've been getting). He wasn't pissed or anything... he was glad to see things from the other side. He was also completely understanding about my take on shop and regional decks... which leads me to one other point, the site isn't "pro blanks", it's anti hypocrisy from the big dogs. He respected that, and he was very understanding on that point. For the record, I never really had Deluxe in the scope of this because I thought Jim made good points (in his interview), and was straight up... I think Deluxe is fucking rad, especially Mic-E.

Last, Steve Douglas tried to contact me, but we've been playing email/phone tag. We're probably going to be talking Monday. So far, I don't think I'm getting sued. He wants to explain the suppliment. I'm coming at him from one angle... it ain't me who needs the explanation. I'm not the center of this, I'm just a relay. I think the industry heads have lost touch with skaters, or at least thinking skaters. I'll be sure to update everyone as this all unfolds.

What a day.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 15, 2007, 03:43:10 PM
aint gonna find your body loaded down with chains in the bayou are they?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 15, 2007, 03:49:40 PM
aint gonna find your body loaded down with chains in the bayou are they?

ah, he'll get the horse head first.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 15, 2007, 03:51:06 PM
Expand Quote
how many hits so far grim?
[close]
Maybe with everyone's help we can do a "solutions" part for the site... SANCH GETS FULL CREDIT, haha.


Making a web banner now-lol

kidding!

I'm getting nervous now. I don't even wanna think about the repercussions this can have on Magik.
Fuck it!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Math Professor on February 15, 2007, 03:52:47 PM
Expand Quote
how many hits so far grim?
[close]
Yesterday it was somewhere around 3,500... it's a little over 2k right now.

The emails are coming in by the hundreds... so far, no hate mail.

Also, I've been on the phone a bit... I've spoken with Jim Gray, who was a pleasure to talk to, Mic-E, who is rad, though he feels like I've come on a bit strong... and he brought up something similar to Sanch's idea about a positive part of the site. Maybe with everyone's help we can do a "solutions" part for the site... SANCH GETS FULL CREDIT, haha.

One really cool thing about my talk with Mic-E is that he understood that what the site represents is a general feeling among a LOT of us (as seen in the traffic of the site and the shiltoad of emails I've been getting). He wasn't pissed or anything... he was glad to see things from the other side. He was also completely understanding about my take on shop and regional decks... which leads me to one other point, the site isn't "pro blanks", it's anti hypocrisy from the big dogs. He respected that, and he was very understanding on that point. For the record, I never really had Deluxe in the scope of this because I thought Jim made good points (in his interview), and was straight up... I think Deluxe is fucking rad, especially Mic-E.

Last, Steve Douglas tried to contact me, but we've been playing email/phone tag. We're probably going to be talking Monday. So far, I don't think I'm getting sued. He wants to explain the suppliment. I'm coming at him from one angle... it ain't me who needs the explanation. I'm not the center of this, I'm just a relay. I think the industry heads have lost touch with skaters, or at least thinking skaters. I'll be sure to update everyone as this all unfolds.

What a day.

Mic-E's a cool guy.  Him and Jim are down for skateboarding which makes Deluxe such a good company to support.  Just don't get on Mic's bad side.  You don't have to worry about getting your teeth knocked the fuck out by any of those other ex-vert or ex-freestylers though.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: photowill on February 15, 2007, 03:53:51 PM
who is steve douglas? fuck him.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Math Professor on February 15, 2007, 03:57:11 PM
who is steve douglas? fuck him.
Some ex-vert pro dude from England that owns some company.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Peter on February 15, 2007, 04:19:44 PM
fuuck

even ignition added your link haha

http://www.ignitionsk8.com/News/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=859

did you ever think this would get so big - so quick?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 15, 2007, 04:30:28 PM
the site isn't "pro blanks"

why not?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 15, 2007, 04:33:28 PM
^^^^ Why should it be?

You shouldn't tell anyone what to buy and what not to buy.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 15, 2007, 04:45:49 PM
^^^^ Why should it be?

You shouldn't tell anyone what to buy and what not to buy.

yeah, fair enough. i wasn't trying to get at grimcity but when i read that i took it to mean the site was anti blank rather than ambiva blank, being anti blank pro shop deck would play straight into these assholes hands.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 15, 2007, 04:52:36 PM
^^^^ Why should it be?

You shouldn't tell anyone what to buy and what not to buy.
That's it right there... I'm not making an attempt to push anything, I'm just making an attempt to push back. I don't have any stake in anything, but as a skateboarder, I refuse to be villified by the very industry I've spent 22 years buying shit from.

I just got back from skating at the park where I saw one of my boys, and he brought up a fucking great point... if the industry heads really want to attack someone, its the fucking distributors. That's who they need to blackball, at least in terms of blank decks. I'm sure that if some shops really wanted to get them they could go the ebay route, but it's my undertanding that most of the graphic-less boards are sold to shops via the distributors they have... in effect, it's the industry fighting itself.

I need to do some more research, but if I'm correct in that line of thought, then that may very well be one solution the fat cats can consider... stop fucking dealing with the distros!

I'm gonna check some emails and do a little learnin' on this.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 15, 2007, 04:58:25 PM
Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that there were two major Chinese blank brokers that were flooding the market with bullshit.  The industry needs to get those fuckers out of skateboarding.  I'm certain that shops that are above board and really give a fuck about skating will do their best to stay clear of them if they knew what they were lining the pockets of a toy manufacturer in China.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 15, 2007, 06:34:44 PM
For anyone still following this thing:
1. The Dwindle email document was updated twice since I uploaded it. They never countered to my statements regarding the sales of skate stuff through chain/mall stores.

2. The hits have been insane... thousands of people from allover the globe. I've been getting hundreds of emails, too... nearly every single one in support of the site. Funny thing though... many of the emails have been coming from shops and inner-industry people who are stoked, but they're afraid to have their name on the site for fear of retribution. How fucked is that?

3. I've answered every single email, except for the last one from Dwindle... mainly because the conversation was meandering.

4. I have some IASC campaign-related emails that were forwarded to me. I'll try to put those up when I get home from work tonight (damn, I gotta go to work).

grim, first off i want to say thanks for the product, it came yesterday and im phsyched! some of the people you have talked to probablly fear that they have something to loose by having there name listed on your site when in fact you really only have something to gain when you realize you have nothing to loose. if you want you can most definetly put my name on that list for sure. no matter what im backing your thoughts. jamie thomas has really phsyced me for being down with me when everyone else thought i was a flake and a burnout, i want more then anything to be able to give back to skateboarding and always have it be apart of my life and what your doing is great move forward. if anything us skateboarders need to get behind the idea of keeping money inside of our sport, wether it be through blank boards or pro models. the industry needs to band together and concentrate on the well being of the skateboard culture because without that we will have everyone picking different sides and thats not what skateboarding is about. we all have a common bond which is skateboarding and everyone needs to focus on not ruining that.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 15, 2007, 06:38:11 PM
jayme, come up to canada tomorrow and meet me at the park. yes canada only has one park and yes we only have one road, so if you get lost ill be very angry.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 15, 2007, 06:41:04 PM
Earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that there were two major Chinese blank brokers that were flooding the market with bullshit.  The industry needs to get those fuckers out of skateboarding.  I'm certain that shops that are above board and really give a fuck about skating will do their best to stay clear of them if they knew what they were lining the pockets of a toy manufacturer in China.

if the boards are bullshit then nobody will buy them, right?

problem solved.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 15, 2007, 07:10:12 PM
jayme, come up to canada tomorrow and meet me at the park. yes canada only has one park and yes we only have one road, so if you get lost ill be very angry.

haha! guile! that was rad. to bad im just another broke "ex-pro" but ill be up there soon or later. i try to make it up there a couple times a year.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 15, 2007, 07:17:34 PM
Otis-

I think the problem is that the bullshit boards aren't very noticeable until you ride them.  And if you're stuck with a purchase of 100-150 shite boards with your shops name screened on them, you're gonna be pissed.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 15, 2007, 07:26:27 PM
Otis-

I think the problem is that the bullshit boards aren't very noticeable until you ride them.  And if you're stuck with a purchase of 100-150 shite boards with your shops name screened on them, you're gonna be pissed.

hmmm. you'd get a sample first though, that's standard practice isn't it. i wouldn't buy 150 of anything without trying it or doing some research.
anyway i didn't want to get into that but you said the industry needs to get these fuckers out, the industry needs to concentrate on making it's shit better and let the customer decide who's in or out.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 15, 2007, 07:29:46 PM
Thanks, Jayme... you're on it!

Also, I can't take credit for the gear, that's my homie Kerry... I'll give him a shout!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 15, 2007, 07:55:14 PM
haha! guile! that was rad. to bad im just another broke "ex-pro" but ill be up there soon or later. i try to make it up there a couple times a year.

place your orders from powells, everybody...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: donnie_murdo on February 15, 2007, 08:14:37 PM
Otis-

I think the problem is that the bullshit boards aren't very noticeable until you ride them.  And if you're stuck with a purchase of 100-150 shite boards with your shops name screened on them, you're gonna be pissed.

Funny you say that, the first time one of the shops here made boards, i'd snap one of the brital fucked up bits of shit a day, they started giving them to me so i woudl stop telling people not to pay for them for being so shit
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: lurkstatus on February 15, 2007, 08:32:13 PM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
how many hits so far grim?
[close]
Maybe with everyone's help we can do a "solutions" part for the site... SANCH GETS FULL CREDIT, haha.

[close]

 I don't even wanna think about the repercussions this can have on Magik.
Fuck it!

This is the attitude by which all skate companies should be run.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 15, 2007, 08:46:21 PM
Note that the only reason these industry people are contacting you is in order to water down the content of the site.
You're right. No worries though... I ain't taking shit off of it, and I'm not backing off of anything I've said. Of note: the place that the website is hosted is owned by a friend of mine who used to skate (he's not able to skate anymore, but he would if he could), so I doubt they can pressure him to do anything to it either.

I talked to Steve Douglas for a sec, we have a phone call scheduled for Monday... and just writing that makes me laugh... seriously, I'm fucking giggling like a retard right now...

Picure this:  Steve Douglas, representing the largest goddamned skate company on the planet, feels the need to schedule a phone call with a fucking skoal dipping, loud mouthed skate dork down in south Louisiana because of a website that isn't even three days old. How absolutely ludicrous is this? I honestly can't stop laughing at the absurdity of this.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 15, 2007, 08:48:42 PM
I just got word from one of the shops on my list that Steve called them, asking what they though of the "under fire" article.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: photowill on February 15, 2007, 08:52:50 PM
good^. very good job. they're feeling the threat, they know we know and that the word will spread. they're worried this could fuck them up...and it will. I applaud you, this will go down in skate history.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 15, 2007, 08:57:41 PM
I just got word from one of the shops on my list that Steve called them, asking what they though of the "under fire" article.

tell em that the small companies like traffic are the real guys that are under fire.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 15, 2007, 08:59:26 PM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
how many hits so far grim?
[close]
Maybe with everyone's help we can do a "solutions" part for the site... SANCH GETS FULL CREDIT, haha.

[close]

 I don't even wanna think about the repercussions this can have on Magik.
Fuck it!
[close]

This is the attitude by which all skate companies should be run.

Yeah but my marketing sucks!

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 15, 2007, 09:04:16 PM
youll be backed because of being on here and talking to everyone. we know youre a normal guy, we see you talk about real shit and your opinion runs along lines with most REAL skateboarders. put that raul dude on from spain and russ milligan from down the block and youve got a recipe for love.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 15, 2007, 09:11:21 PM

Yeah but my marketing sucks!


fuck a marketing.
all you need to do sell a ton of shirts is keep on being real on here and sort your fucking website out.

and ship worldwide.

and make everything in xxl.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 15, 2007, 09:11:45 PM
Yeah, I was thinking of getting in contact w/ Marcel about that Russ dude. However, I don't want to burn any possible opportunities for him by putting him on and not being able to pay. Having Rob on the team is so nice and he's kind of going out on limb for me. Being able to put a check in Rob's bank every month is motivation for me to get shit done.

Had to erase that sorry ass shit I just wrote.hehehe It's from the heart but was kind of cheesy to be saying.


Heads be thinking that I'm skating again and am on here for advancement of my company but that's not really the case. I'll admit, I got the idea to skate again to help my company but in the process it started to get fun again, but I don't think I'll ever want back in as a pro. As far as me being on here, I'm just a net junkie. When I played baseball I was on the leagues baseball site 24/7 but mostly at school when bored.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: truthbetold on February 15, 2007, 09:25:10 PM
Expand Quote
Note that the only reason these industry people are contacting you is in order to water down the content of the site.
[close]
You're right. No worries though... I ain't taking shit off of it, and I'm not backing off of anything I've said. Of note: the place that the website is hosted is owned by a friend of mine who used to skate (he's not able to skate anymore, but he would if he could), so I doubt they can pressure him to do anything to it either.

I talked to Steve Douglas for a sec, we have a phone call scheduled for Monday... and just writing that makes me laugh... seriously, I'm fucking giggling like a retard right now...

Picure this:  Steve Douglas, representing the largest goddamned skate company on the planet, feels the need to schedule a phone call with a fucking skoal dipping, loud mouthed skate dork down in south Louisiana because of a website that isn't even three days old. How absolutely ludicrous is this? I honestly can't stop laughing at the absurdity of this.

To bad it wasn't from the moron himself Bod Boyle...It has to be the second moron in charge.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 15, 2007, 09:30:56 PM
Who are the head honchos at Giant? Paul Shmidt?

I've heard of them ripping off Mad Circle and Popwar.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 15, 2007, 09:31:45 PM
Yeah, I was thinking of getting in contact w/ Marcel about that Russ dude. However, I don't want to burn any possible opportunities for him by putting him on and not being able to pay. Having Rob on the team is so nice and he's kind of going out on limb for me. Being able to put a check in Rob's bank every month is motivation for me to get shit done.

Had to erase that sorry ass shit I just wrote.hehehe It's from the heart but was kind of cheesy to be saying.


Heads be thinking that I'm skating again and am on here for advancement of my company but that's not really the case. I'll admit, I got the idea to skate again to help my company but in the process it started to get fun again, but I don't think I'll ever want back in as a pro. As far as me being on here, I'm just a net junkie. When I played baseball I was on the leagues baseball site 24/7 but mostly at school when bored.

that shit right there is why you will be backed by even the haters on here. rob welsh is also a good selling point because there isnt a person out there who does like welsh. biebel and welsh  are two people ive never heard a person say something bad about, even people who are against thier "hip hop image" (and i know it isnt an image thing with those guys but thats the only way of explaining it i could think of). even your local fallen addicted toy machine clone loves him some welsh.  and if you are looking to take our canadians go for travis or russ or something. mitch charron maybe. get a crazy international gangster movement going on in the bay area. get an army and we can storm the iasc ourselves.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Gest on February 15, 2007, 09:35:14 PM
what do you guys think the actual slap magazine crew is thinking about all of this?

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 15, 2007, 09:38:44 PM
Expand Quote
Yeah, I was thinking of getting in contact w/ Marcel about that Russ dude. However, I don't want to burn any possible opportunities for him by putting him on and not being able to pay. Having Rob on the team is so nice and he's kind of going out on limb for me. Being able to put a check in Rob's bank every month is motivation for me to get shit done.

Had to erase that sorry ass shit I just wrote.hehehe It's from the heart but was kind of cheesy to be saying.


Heads be thinking that I'm skating again and am on here for advancement of my company but that's not really the case. I'll admit, I got the idea to skate again to help my company but in the process it started to get fun again, but I don't think I'll ever want back in as a pro. As far as me being on here, I'm just a net junkie. When I played baseball I was on the leagues baseball site 24/7 but mostly at school when bored.
[close]

that shit right there is why you will be backed by even the haters on here. rob welsh is also a good selling point because there isnt a person out there who does like welsh. biebel and welsh  are two people ive never heard a person say something bad about, even people who are against thier "hip hop image" (and i know it isnt an image thing with those guys but thats the only way of explaining it i could think of). even your local fallen addicted toy machine clone loves him some welsh.  and if you are looking to take our canadians go for travis or russ or something. mitch charron maybe. get a crazy international gangster movement going on in the bay area. get an army and we can storm the iasc ourselves.

Yeah, I need to bro out at a trade show or something. If I would have went to the last one I probably would have came back with some impressive riders. Adding to the team is kind of on hold till I get distribution cause I want to present them with a sense of security. I really think my past will help me eventually land a pretty crazy squad. Hopefully so I can get that other guy you mentioned ;)

I think the slap crew likes the fact that this iasc thing is unfolding on their site but I don't think it'd be wise for them to take a stance.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: j....soy..... on February 15, 2007, 09:49:39 PM
they got pd's/skull skates up  here....i'm sure most skaters up here just think it's some crusty dudes or whatever...but it's a sick business plan....they do their own boards..own shirts..own brand... that's pretty much it....you think they care about boards being made in china?  blanks?  they probably have no idea who the top 10 pros even are....

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 15, 2007, 10:03:43 PM
We do not promote creative thinking!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 15, 2007, 10:33:59 PM
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/camm122/save-humanity.jpg)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 16, 2007, 01:21:09 AM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Note that the only reason these industry people are contacting you is in order to water down the content of the site.
[close]
You're right. No worries though... I ain't taking shit off of it, and I'm not backing off of anything I've said. Of note: the place that the website is hosted is owned by a friend of mine who used to skate (he's not able to skate anymore, but he would if he could), so I doubt they can pressure him to do anything to it either.

I talked to Steve Douglas for a sec, we have a phone call scheduled for Monday... and just writing that makes me laugh... seriously, I'm fucking giggling like a retard right now...

Picure this:  Steve Douglas, representing the largest goddamned skate company on the planet, feels the need to schedule a phone call with a fucking skoal dipping, loud mouthed skate dork down in south Louisiana because of a website that isn't even three days old. How absolutely ludicrous is this? I honestly can't stop laughing at the absurdity of this.
[close]

To bad it wasn't from the moron himself Bod Boyle...It has to be the second moron in charge.

hugh bod boyle hugh bod boyle hugh bod boyle, dada!!!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 16, 2007, 01:29:47 AM
 neal, tell kerry thanks and i definetly owe him one!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 16, 2007, 06:59:15 AM
Will do, Jayme.

Update:
I got a bunch of emails from people that weren't able to view the site, so I made downloadable versions of it:

http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/wholesite.jpg (3.07 megs)

http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/wholesite.pdf (3.62 megs)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: donnie_murdo on February 16, 2007, 07:14:53 AM
This whole topic just gets better and better every time i read it
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fuckingvegan on February 16, 2007, 07:17:42 AM
GrimCity - Fucking A that is a good job, sorry I just got a chance to read it (Law firm I am currently working at doesn't allow me to log onto Slap).
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 16, 2007, 07:27:50 AM
As I'm typing this, I'm on the phone with Steve Douglas...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 16, 2007, 07:41:36 AM
The part about this that blows me away is how powerful the internet really is.
2 days ago neal was just some regular dude, today he's being called by all the major company/distribution owners, talking about solutions for a problem he has zero control over. Thanks for making the site neal, it's opened alot of peoples eyes, ive discussed this with a bunch of my reps , it needed to be done, people needed to be called out. keep us posted.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: j....soy..... on February 16, 2007, 07:45:51 AM
god bless message boards....we have a voice!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: whatnot on February 16, 2007, 07:51:45 AM
amen
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Assistant Janitor on February 16, 2007, 08:00:43 AM
Power to the people. 

Excellent Job Neal.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 16, 2007, 08:03:36 AM
you should tottaly get turtle to shape a board for burkhart you barney.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 16, 2007, 08:11:23 AM
(Law firm I am currently working at doesn't allow me to log onto Slap).

those bastards!

can you use one of those proxy sites?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Math Professor on February 16, 2007, 08:12:38 AM
GrimCity - Fucking A that is a good job, sorry I just got a chance to read it (Law firm I am currently working at doesn't allow me to log onto Slap).
Lame legal bastards.  Tell those slacker IT folks to hook you up.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on February 16, 2007, 08:33:24 AM
you should tottaly get turtle to shape a board for burkhart you barney.

Nobody listens to Turtle.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fahque on February 16, 2007, 08:45:37 AM
if a distro boycott is ever called,,,, then reggie barnes should be quite scared... blame the distributors not the shops....
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: uselesswoodentoys on February 16, 2007, 10:52:26 AM
As I'm typing this, I'm on the phone with Steve Douglas...


i'm dying to know how this went...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Farm on February 16, 2007, 11:46:45 AM
This whole situation is lovely.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: photowill on February 16, 2007, 02:58:16 PM
How did the phone call go? What did he say? Give us every detail, I want to hear what this fucker says.

bringing up the post
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Math Professor on February 16, 2007, 03:05:39 PM
Ask Steve why they killed New Deal?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 16, 2007, 04:05:15 PM
A few things:

First: I just want to say that I'm a tired motherfucker. Between this site and my day job, I'm fucking beat. Nothing a couple of beers won't fix, but goddamn!

Second: Every single industry head in every facet of skateboard-making is watching the fuck out of this thread. To all of them reading this, please pay attention: I am NOT a business owner. I do NOT have any stake in this. The shop I'm affiliated with is not mine, nor do I have one penny of financial debt or claim in it. I'm a skateboarder, just like the site says (see avatar). Nearly every call I've had has started off with the person on the other end thinking that I'm somehow affected by the business... no, nope, nadda, negative. I'm not that guy.

Third: I got a sense from two different cats (via emails that I glanced over) that they may want me to do some business thing with them or for them... if you two dudes are reading this, the answer is no if you actually decide to ask. I'd email you but I forgot your names and your shit is lost in my gmail. I have a day job, so s'all good. By the way, if a particular Slap Pal is reading this, I'm not referring to your project... I'd like to be a part of that, I'm just talking to two randoms.

The phone call: pretty much what you'd expect I guess. Steve was very nice, as everyone that has called me has been so far... but I know that their are some pissed off cats too. For the record, Steve has my phone number and he has permission to give it out to anyone in the industry that feels the need to "educate" me even more. Just keep in mind, I'm one skater in Louisiana, and I've already been talked to by industry heads, board makers, skatepark people, wheel companies, a LOT of skateshop owners, and just about every skater with an email address (the skateshops and fellow skaters all being AWESOME AS FUCK).

I'll just say that Steve made some points that were really good, but nothing that changes my reasoning for building the site. I promised Steve that I woulnd't quote him on anything. I'm not out to burn anyone, so I'll just lay down some things I had on my mind:

1. I took issue with the industry attacking skateboarders. I still do. Mistake or not, that's what happened. It's the industry's responsibility to correct that.
2. I took issue with these things being done in a publication that we weren't meant to see.
3. I took issue with product being sold in mall stores that are undercutting or competing with real skateshops. If a core shop closes because of a Zumies, then that city has lost a hub for skating. Fuck the mall, fuck the chains. Yes, some of them do demos, but those demos are just commercials for those very same chains.
4. Don't hate on shop boards, and don't hate on regional (city-wide) boards. The industry started because of shop boards and crews (Z, Dogtown, etc etc). Big brands are cool, but step the fuck off of the shops and small regional crews. The distros are the problem, attack them.
5. Stop just marketing to kids, or at least start marketing to thinking skateboarders. Transworld is across between MTV and Hightlights these days.
6. Drop the wall between the corpomonsters and the skateboarders. I used H-Street as a good example of what was good... you could look at Mike Ternasky and Tony Magnussion and say "hey, they're H-Street!" Now, it's like all of these companies are hidden in a bubble... there are offices over here, share holders over there, the boards are getting flown in from wherever... the industry is faceless now (with the exception of a few great places like Deluxe). With the industry in a bubble, it's no wonder they're surprised to see the website I threw together get blown up so fast. They're waaaay over there, and a bunch of us are waaaay over here.

I also pointed back to the fact that I don't have a clue as to how it works on that side of skateboarding. I'm not that person.

I can say that Steve heard me out. He listened to what I had to say, and I did the same. I can't speak to what he agreed or disagreed with, because I don't know. It looks like there are some folks that are ready to talk, and by that I mean it sounds like the industry is tripping out a little bit...  but I have no clue what kind of discussion it'll be if we have one.

Industry people: I don't have answers, I'm not a leader or anything special in this at all. I have the ability to point my finger and voice an opinion, and that's it.

Last thing: some people have been calling the shop that my friend owns... our shop isn't even affected by this. Our shop has never carried the blanks that the IASC is worried about. Small Time's has no affiliation with the site other than the fact that it's on the list, the owner is my best friend, and he agrees with the general premise of what the site says.   I do run the shop's site, but I do that because I want to. I would never accept a dime for it... I'm a geek that loves my shop.

For the record (again, to anyone who may contact me in the industry): The CEOs site cost me roughly $20 to set up, and roughly two days to design and build. I have nothing to lose here, and I don't want to gain anything.

I may have missed some things I said, so just bear with me... it was a long phone call, and I'm exhausted.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: noah on February 16, 2007, 04:09:01 PM
things are looking up
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 16, 2007, 04:11:34 PM
dang Grim, looks like you're getting spread thin over there. Have a beer man, it's Friday!

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: biggums mcgee on February 16, 2007, 04:14:55 PM
or fried-day..
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 16, 2007, 04:19:10 PM
you did well there grim, steve d is a notorious bully and asshole, ask anyone from the uk about hsc, how nduk treated small shops or their infamous warehouse fire.

go get a beer, everyone on here owes you one, i'll fucking pay-pal you the money.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 16, 2007, 04:25:20 PM
Haha... I gotta say, he didn't approach me as a bully... but yeah, the beer is on.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: middleschoollurker on February 16, 2007, 04:28:21 PM
Neal, if I ever make it back to Hammond (which I plan on doing sometime) I'll buy you a beer for this one.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 16, 2007, 04:31:26 PM
Dude, scrap the beer, just get the fuck back down here...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 16, 2007, 05:09:16 PM
damn, so thats where you were today!  i finally made it back out to the Hammond park earlier; shit was killer! 
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Skinny on February 16, 2007, 06:27:02 PM
This situation is sad really.
Solutions are hard to come by, but they do exist



I can imagine that shooting yourself in the foot hurts. Except you would be a total ass to blame the bullet.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 16, 2007, 06:29:24 PM
I hope they all sue just so I can stop looking at this bullshit thread.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 16, 2007, 06:37:36 PM
Haha... I gotta say, he didn't approach me as a bully... but yeah, the beer is on.

good to hear! neal! its great to know that these guys are listening to you with what appears to be an open mind. have a beer on me too!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Derka Derk on February 16, 2007, 06:38:27 PM
grim, cheers, i just got back from the pub aswell...
somehow you remind me of an old slap (i guess) article in which it said that being a
pro back in the day ment, you worked 9 to 5 and shredded afterwards, so you know you're keeping it real!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: photowill on February 16, 2007, 10:22:11 PM
I expect a press release or something from the IASC this week.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 16, 2007, 10:34:00 PM
i just set up another shop board.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 16, 2007, 10:49:53 PM
I think those iasc dudes are listening because they want to
hear the kids out.

Nah. They just want kid's cash.

I just don't understand there logic. Didn't they expect a backlash? And when it started coming, why not stop right then? They arn't budging at all, so I doubt they care what the kids think.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 16, 2007, 11:02:47 PM
Well right now it's obvious that Neil's site has gotten them worried, as it should be. Any normal person
would most likely agree his take. Neil's obviously a smart guy and knows eyes are all over that site. Who
cares if they don't care about what solutions come up because someone will listen.

Here's my solution, though not really thought out...

 The only thing you can do is compete with the blanks and shop decks. Use shitty China wood to lower the cost, just use better glues and processes. Use cheap printing. Problem solved! I think a lot of people don't realize that the glue and proccess is just as important if not more important than the wood. How's the board gonna break if the glue is balanced enough to make a stiff board yet have some  give so it won't snap? It wont! It won't chip as easy if the glue actually keeps a firm grip to the wood.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 17, 2007, 12:43:35 AM
Why come up with a solution for them to make bank off of? The nice calls and letters are to water down your content.

"Mic-E was nice so Deluxe is good.... Jim Gray was nice so Acme is good....etc."

Send the industry back to filming with Hi8s. Fuck them.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Matze on February 17, 2007, 03:07:08 AM
what the hell is doing titus in your linklist? he's the symbol for $making skateboard industry. he's got over 30 shops in germany and is doing a fucking big mailorder/internet store.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Alan on February 17, 2007, 03:13:14 AM
That sneaky bald bastard.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 17, 2007, 03:15:15 AM
what the hell is doing titus in your linklist? he's the symbol for $making skateboard industry. he's got over 30 shops in germany and is doing a fucking big mailorder/internet store.

that's a completely separate issue.
this is about companies trying to stop people buying blanks.
obviously titus wants to carry on selling them.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: rs312 on February 17, 2007, 03:48:57 AM
i consider this a blank. only now they are black. it only costs 39.99€
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on February 17, 2007, 05:42:59 AM
The site has come to attention to even About:Skateboarding - http://skateboard.about.com/b/a/254557.htm
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grim reaper on February 17, 2007, 09:12:53 AM
i think its time for a grim pro model!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: JounA on February 17, 2007, 10:44:21 AM
http://dnaskateshop.blogspot.com/2007/02/were-gonna-fight.html our shops got your back man!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Goodtimes on February 17, 2007, 02:13:59 PM
Do we not think that there is some CEO running the blank and shop board company, that probably never skated a day in his life.
At least the ones like Steve Douglas & Jamie Thomas come from skateboarding.
IASC, skate shops, distributors, woodshops, etc... should be asking what is best for skateboarding but I guess everyones to wrapped up in how to have their own business make the most money. If pros, CEO lose their jobs and skate shops, & the industry die off, I'll still be skating and getting my skate stuff on the "Black Market" ha-ha
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 17, 2007, 02:19:50 PM
Do we not think that there is some CEO running the blank and shop board company, that probably never skated a day in his life.
At least the ones like Steve Douglas & Jamie Thomas come from skateboarding.

the guys running the blanks companies aren't trying to tell people what to do though, they barely even promote their products.

and i'd bet money that neither steve douglas or bod can or ever could ollie up a curb.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Goodtimes on February 17, 2007, 02:40:17 PM
People try to tell me what to do all the time...I don't give a shit or let it bother me and just because somebody does not tell me what to do, I'm not giving them my blind support.

Ollie up a curb is your standard? I'll take blasting a backside air. Hell, Jamie Thomas can do both.

Whatever dude thats a pretty weak reason to side with some goons that as you say "barely promote" skateboarding/products.

I'm not taking sides but if someones trying to tell me what to buy, believe me not matter what they say, it will still be "my choice".
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 17, 2007, 02:48:59 PM
People try to tell me what to do all the time...I don't give a shit or let it bother me and just because somebody does not tell me what to do, I'm not giving them my blind support.

Ollie up a curb is your standard? I'll take blasting a backside air. Hell, Jamie Thomas can do both.

Whatever dude thats a pretty weak reason to side with some goons that as you say "barely promote" skateboarding/products.

I'm not taking sides but if someones trying to tell me what to buy, believe me not matter what they say, it will still be "my choice".

the blank guy is increasing choice. the iasc are trying to decrease it.

i not siding with anyone but if i had to and it was between someone that did promote skating to the general public and someone that didn't you'd best believe it 'd be the latter.

and as for the ollieing up a curb i'm just saying that douglas and bod's experience of skating really doesn't qualify them to make any kind of pronouncements about modern skating, jamie thomas fuckwad that he is is different obviously.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Goodtimes on February 17, 2007, 02:58:12 PM
Expand Quote
People try to tell me what to do all the time...I don't give a shit or let it bother me and just because somebody does not tell me what to do, I'm not giving them my blind support.

Ollie up a curb is your standard? I'll take blasting a backside air. Hell, Jamie Thomas can do both.

Whatever dude thats a pretty weak reason to side with some goons that as you say "barely promote" skateboarding/products.

I'm not taking sides but if someones trying to tell me what to buy, believe me not matter what they say, it will still be "my choice".
[close]

the blank guy is increasing choice. the iasc are trying to decrease it.

i not siding with anyone but if i had to and it was between someone that did promote skating to the general public and someone that didn't you'd best believe it 'd be the latter.

and as for the ollieing up a curb i'm just saying that douglas and bod's experience of skating really doesn't qualify them to make any kind of pronouncements about modern skating, jamie thomas fuckwad that he is is different obviously.

I would think that if blanks boards took over then we would for sure have less choices not more. Fewer real skate companys would mean a lot less to choose from.

Why would you take the latter?

I don't know what "pronouncements" means.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 17, 2007, 03:01:52 PM

I don't know what "pronouncements" means.

saying stuff.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 17, 2007, 03:06:18 PM
really, putting a picture on the bottom of a modern skateboard is a pretty fucking stupid idea.

and expecting the customer to pay extra for it is total insanity.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Goodtimes on February 17, 2007, 03:07:03 PM
I looked it up. syn for declaration, decree.

It looked to me like that there was a lot more people than them making the "pronouncement" in that thing.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Gest on February 17, 2007, 03:08:07 PM
i think every parent upon the view of their first deck

"you paid how much for it?!"

"the drawing on the bottom comes off anyways"

sometimes parents DO understand LOL
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 17, 2007, 03:11:07 PM
I looked it up. syn for declaration, decree.

It looked to me like that there was a lot more people than them making the "pronouncement" in that thing.

i'm pretty sure those two were pretty key in getting the whole thing started.
douglas was one of the main instigators of the '94 agreement that basically ruined skateboarding forever.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Goodtimes on February 17, 2007, 03:14:57 PM
really, putting a picture on the bottom of a modern skateboard is a pretty fucking stupid idea.

and expecting the customer to pay extra for it is total insanity.

They have been putting pictures on the bottom of skateboards since day one. Whose stupid idea was that?

I personally don't buy boards for the picture. That's sometimes a bonus. I've sprayed painted the bottom right off the bat becuase I did not like the graphic. I pay the extra to have a good shape, construction, and what woodshop I can find out made it.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: getsintopplsbiznes on February 17, 2007, 03:16:52 PM
gay
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Goodtimes on February 17, 2007, 03:18:30 PM
Expand Quote
I looked it up. syn for declaration, decree.

It looked to me like that there was a lot more people than them making the "pronouncement" in that thing.
[close]

i'm pretty sure those two were pretty key in getting the whole thing started.
douglas was one of the main instigators of the '94 agreement that basically ruined skateboarding forever.

You must know more than me.

I did not know that skateboarding was ever ruined. Why would you want to tell me that when I've been having so much fun all along.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: getsintopplsbiznes on February 17, 2007, 03:18:49 PM
i think every parent upon the view of their first deck

"you paid how much for it?!"

"the drawing on the bottom comes off anyways"

sometimes parents DO understand LOL
somebody call the funny police an internet skateboarder wants attention
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Edward Penishands on February 17, 2007, 03:20:14 PM
Expand Quote
i think every parent upon the view of their first deck

"you paid how much for it?!"

"the drawing on the bottom comes off anyways"

sometimes parents DO understand LOL
[close]
somebody call the funny police an internet skateboarder wants attention

stfu newbie
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 17, 2007, 03:20:56 PM
Expand Quote
really, putting a picture on the bottom of a modern skateboard is a pretty fucking stupid idea.

and expecting the customer to pay extra for it is total insanity.
[close]

They have been putting pictures on the bottom of skateboards since day one. Whose stupid idea was that?

I personally don't buy boards for the picture. That's sometimes a bonus. I've sprayed painted the bottom right off the bat becuase I did not like the graphic. I pay the extra to have a good shape, construction, and what woodshop I can find out made it.



i spray my boards a solid color almost every time.  i just like a clean solid color instead of a bunch of jumbled crap that looks like shit when it flakes off...i miss the days of the true silk screened board with the colored wood bottom layer...the graphics looked cool as they scratched off back then
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Edward Penishands on February 17, 2007, 03:21:59 PM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
really, putting a picture on the bottom of a modern skateboard is a pretty fucking stupid idea.

and expecting the customer to pay extra for it is total insanity.
[close]

They have been putting pictures on the bottom of skateboards since day one. Whose stupid idea was that?

I personally don't buy boards for the picture. That's sometimes a bonus. I've sprayed painted the bottom right off the bat becuase I did not like the graphic. I pay the extra to have a good shape, construction, and what woodshop I can find out made it.


[close]

i spray my boards a solid color almost every time.  i just like a clean solid color instead of a bunch of jumbled crap that looks like shit when it flakes off...i miss the days of the true silk screened board with the colored wood bottom layer...the graphics looked cool as they scratched off back then

5boro can silk screen a deck like no other.  try one, you won't regret it.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jonny on February 17, 2007, 04:16:39 PM
GOOD JOB HEADACHE
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 17, 2007, 04:39:46 PM
headache said it all.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Maple Syrup on February 17, 2007, 07:07:15 PM
who read that
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 17, 2007, 07:27:37 PM
the literate amongst us?

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Lomaz on February 17, 2007, 09:07:58 PM
I especially like headache's suggestion #3.  If you make a shapes that are still functional but different, that's something that a blank wouldn't be able to pull off cause you'd know it would be a rip off of a pros deck.  Rodney Mullen over the years basically changed the deck shape for it to become a freestyle board.  Now it's so generic and plain that's there's hardly and difference between any of the decks.

They also should think hard about their graphics.  All the one's on the wall nowadays are so unoriginal that some shop decks have better graphics.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: CHIANG MAI on February 18, 2007, 01:38:14 AM
maybe itll be a good thing if big board companys die out. and we'll be left with the companies who arent in it for the money, the cool companys that arent trying to brain wash little kids. the companys that cater to real skaters and not just kids who think smoking and drinking beer is cool because their favourite pros do it.
skateboard media is so embarassing right now, everything from transworld to the television commercials make me embarassed to be a skater. thats why for me i just pay attention to the local scenes whether it be toronto or chiang mai or kuala lumpur. skate shops, local rippers, local companys... etc. thats my vision of what real skatebaording is right now.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: I taste blood on February 18, 2007, 08:31:02 AM
Headache said some good stuff, but it seems that everyone else has just been bitchin and moaning like their friends at IASC.
I don't really get it, I read all of that crap in the IASC thing and it didn't seem directed at the kid buying a new board. I took as they were trying to inform shops that they're being duped by blank board manufacturers that don't skate or support skateboarding. It seemed really over the top, but these companies inspire us all in one way or another and just because we're not pro or don't run a company doesn't mean we should be bitter as those who are making a living from skateboarding.

If you hate them for that, don't buy their crap and tell your friends that you know a lot about the skateboard industry and they should trust you and not buy their crap either. Realistically though, it doesn't seem that any of the "Slap Pals" would ever buy pro boards anyway, so everyone's getting all psyched up to not buy even more. I guess the bright side is that the heads of all the companies get to read the other side, although Headache has been the only person with any real suggestion of a solution.

Grim's site is done well and he's obviously talented, but it's just as much of extreme propaganda as the IASC thing except the target isn't some unknown person, it's industry heads that people know a lot about. Propaganda is propaganda whether it's from a purist in Louisiana or an old freestyler, it just depends on what propaganda you want to buy into.

Let's use this energy to do something rad for skateboarding like; throw a local contest or skate jam, or start a non-profit organization to help underprivileged kids afford to skate. (I'm sure the enemies at IASC would donate product in order to look like they care.) Maybe even volunteer to teach a skate camp or class at a local park or parking lot where you can show beginners how to not push mongo.

Seems like this type of stuff would help skateboarding more than complaining about some rich dudes.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 18, 2007, 09:14:44 AM
Headache said some good stuff, but it seems that everyone else has just been bitchin and moaning like their friends at IASC.
I don't really get it, I read all of that crap in the IASC thing and it didn't seem directed at the kid buying a new board. I took as they were trying to inform shops that they're being duped by blank board manufacturers that don't skate or support skateboarding. It seemed really over the top, but these companies inspire us all in one way or another and just because we're not pro or don't run a company doesn't mean we should be bitter as those who are making a living from skateboarding.
You're right, the IASC document wasn't targeted at your typical skateboarder... we weren't meant to see it. I know this for a fact. Some of it was over the top, which I think makes it worse... it's more proof that there's a wall of seperation between the industry and skateboarders.

Beyond that, I think there are very few people that would argue that generic blanks only benefit the blank manufacturers and the shops to some degree... but my main beef is that there are those in the industry who don't differentiate between blanks, shop decks, and city-wide regional brands. Once a core shop or regional crew makes a board (many times using the same channels and wood shops that the big boys use) then the argument is moot. Yes, pros inspire some people to skate, but not like a core shop or local crew. It's all local. I didn't get inspired to skate in 1985 because of Christian Hosoi, I got inspired to skate because of neighborhood kids that were riding shitty K Mart boards. I skated for a year before I even knew there were professional skateboarders.

As it stands, if anyone's bitter at pros, that's their business. Personally, I'm bitter at an industry that forgot it's roots. All skate scenes are local... as cliche' as an example as this might be, just look at Dogtown and Z... that's regional, that's shop. I'm stoked that skateboarding has blown up, but I refuse to have an industry make an attempt at talking shit about me behind my back.

Quote
If you hate them for that, don't buy their crap and tell your friends that you know a lot about the skateboard industry and they should trust you and not buy their crap either. Realistically though, it doesn't seem that any of the "Slap Pals" would ever buy pro boards anyway, so everyone's getting all psyched up to not buy even more. I guess the bright side is that the heads of all the companies get to read the other side, although Headache has been the only person with any real suggestion of a solution.
I'm pretty sure that plenty of Pals are riding pro boards. I never made any attempts to tell anyone they shouldn't continue to do so. I'm strictly calling out what I (and many others) see as bullshit.

Quote
Grim's site is done well and he's obviously talented, but it's just as much of extreme propaganda as the IASC thing except the target isn't some unknown person, it's industry heads that people know a lot about. Propaganda is propaganda whether it's from a purist in Louisiana or an old freestyler, it just depends on what propaganda you want to buy into.
I call it a response, but if you want to call it propaganda, feel free to do so. It is what it is to whoever looks at it.

Quote
Let's use this energy to do something rad for skateboarding like; throw a local contest or skate jam, or start a non-profit organization to help underprivileged kids afford to skate. (I'm sure the enemies at IASC would donate product in order to look like they care.) Maybe even volunteer to teach a skate camp or class at a local park or parking lot where you can show beginners how to not push mongo.
I can only speak for my scene and say that we do all of the above. The shop I volunteer geek-stuff for is responsible for all of the legwork involved with getting Louisiana's only proper public concrete skatepark (not counting the Shreveport plaza, because that place sucks dick and did more to hurt skating there than it did to help), our shop runs a used board program, where me and all of the locals give over our used equipment so kids with no money can get wheels, decks, and trucks for free, and I'm a member of the Skatepark Association of Baton Rouge, where we fought and won the fight for legislation that took liability away from government entities in the case of skateboard-related injuries that might take place on government property designed for skaters to roll on. I really don't think my situation is unique, either.

PS
The shop I support isn't even affected by this debate. No blanks (with the exception of Powell mini logos) and every brand in house is backed 100% by the owner.

Quote
Seems like this type of stuff would help skateboarding more than complaining about some rich dudes.
I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: suckafoo on February 18, 2007, 09:25:24 AM
I have no problem buying a pro board at all. I usually ride shop boards though, and I do understand the IASC villifying blanks. What I don't agree with is a bunch of millionaires villifying shops for selling shop boards and blanks, which provide a far greater margin opportunity than a pro board does. The fact is, all the people in that book built themmselves some real cushy lifestyles when skateboarding blew up in 2001-2002, and they want to continue to live those lifestyles. I have no problem with those guys making money at all, I will not fault them for being savvy buisnessmen, but almost all of these guys are doing is taking from skateboarding....not giving back. These brands are selling short the amount of influence that local shops have....the skateboarding business is run on emotion.....shops drive the brands that they want to drive. If a bunch of kids at a shop are into 5boro, then the shop is going to sell shit-tons of 5boro. If a bunch of shop kids think Jamie Thomas is a kook, then they won't be selling any Zero.

I actually think this might really backfire on these brands that are in the "Under Fire" book. There are plenty of pissed-off shop owners out there who don't want to read about a bunch of whiny millionaires.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 18, 2007, 09:59:25 AM
i ride shop boards because they give them to me, if dwindle or blitz wants to start giving me boards then ill stop riding the shop boards. until then, you can all eat a dick, but not mine. i need it.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 18, 2007, 10:28:23 AM
Two Site Updates:
1. I just republished (and published for the first time) a series of essays from a guy named Bud Stratford. From what I understand, a lot of people in the industry see him as a kook, but I personally think he says a lot of interesting things. It's a series of long, informally written reads, but I think a lot of it is solid because so much of it was written before this shit came to a head.
I made the essays available here:
http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/BudStratford/

2. I just pointed out something that I personally feel is bullshit, called "Transworld Skateboarding vs Transworld Biz." This is a perfect example of the industry saying one thing to skaters and another thing to retailers... and it must be noted that Transworld's involvment in this is deep. As well as being the publisher of both the over the counter TWS and behind-the-counter "Under Fire," they're also "Associate Members" of the IASC. To me, this sums up one of the biggest problems in the world of skaters vs. industry... they think we're stupid.
http://www.aworldwithoutceos.com/TransVsItself/


Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 18, 2007, 10:57:55 AM
just read all his stuff; that bud stratford fellow is pretty clear and to-the-point...   i can see why no mag would want to publish any of his stuff!

and about the magazines...   none of them exist to provide any kind of critical (let alone objective) news or ideas about skateboarding.  tws biz comes closest, but it is 'objective' only in the way the business, real estate, or 'autos' section of your daily newspaper are (or cosmopolitan, etc): they exist to valorize, validate, and support the existing way things are done.  with TWS being an associate member of the IASC cartel, there is no way they will ever take any perspective other than that of the industry insider.   shop talk, tradeshow gossip, and message boards like this are the only way to get critical information about skateboarding.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on February 18, 2007, 12:18:03 PM
i'm almost done reading all of his essays, but i just wanted to add this: isn't it ironic that up until now, the companies have been ever so proud on the fact that they started listening to their pro skater for produtc feedback? you get advice from people who get the stuff for free and don't care at all if the products lasts a bit longer (one good example - suede shoe - easyto break in, but wear down in a day)...

take for example zero: 2-3 years ago, thomas said he used around 10 decks per month... in 2006 sandoval said he goes trough 30-35 decks per month <- the product is that much better i guess (or has the braincell minimum fallen deeper than ever, and the stair count gone out of hand)...back to reading
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 18, 2007, 12:33:11 PM
can someone breakdown headache's post in like 2-3 sentences. I'm interested in hearing but wanna skate today.


Here's a start...

Does it really matter where your board is coming from if quality isn't comprimised???
I can think of a whole lot of stuff that I own that isn't from America. Why would I let this
effect me? Are the guys saying to buy usa only driving around in Chevy's and domestics?
Why all of a sudden is buying goods made abroad so bad?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 18, 2007, 03:04:19 PM
When someone finally gets it right it wont matter, because everyone will start using it. right now id say most china boards are subpar, but a few are pretty close.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: 256 Ply on February 18, 2007, 04:40:29 PM
It's a faustian bargian. Most products made in China get knocked off by the same factory using what's called a third shift (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/05/01/8375455/index.htm). So expect to see same  decks flood the market (i.e. not counterfeit). This hurts the brands, shops, and pros.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: 256 Ply on February 18, 2007, 04:51:10 PM
Transworld biz is more interesting to read than every skate mag out today. Sure, it's business oriented, but they usually have some different viewpoints within an article showing both sides. Go back to the April 1998 issue, it had "Blank Future?" on the cover discussing the exact same issue that's being brought up once again. Skateboarding really is cyclical...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 18, 2007, 04:52:53 PM
can someone breakdown headache's post in like 2-3 sentences. I'm interested in hearing but wanna skate today.


Here's a start...

Does it really matter where your board is coming from if quality isn't comprimised???
I can think of a whole lot of stuff that I own that isn't from America. Why would I let this
effect me? Are the guys saying to buy usa only driving around in Chevy's and domestics?
Why all of a sudden is buying goods made abroad so bad?

for kids with no hope of going pro, but still possessing a deep love/dedication for skating, a warehouse/factory/etc. job in the industry is a way to stay connected to skateboarding through their early adult years... as production moves overseas, these jobs dry up. first it was trucks and t's, then it was wheels, and now its boards. its a "last straw" kinda scenario, i think.

not everyone can work as a photog/filmer/writer, so to a lot of kids stuck in nebraska, counting the days till they graduate and move out of mo' basement, a grunt job in the industry looks pretty good. (the fact that they'll have to try to live in southern california on a 10 dollar an hour job notwithstanding)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: suckafoo on February 18, 2007, 07:37:33 PM
Speaking of the IASC....while were on the topic (I suppose it IS the topic). From the "greed-and-controlling-magazines" department...a well-placed little birdie told me that the IASC had the NERVE to go to The Skateboard Mag and just about DEMAND free advertising. Can you believe these motherfuckers? It's a good thing TSM told them to go piss up a pole. Here is a start-up magazine who is trying like a motherfucker to not accept any 'outside the industry' advertising, and the IASC (lets call them the Billionaire Boys Club) has the nerve to ask for free advertising.

The more I hear, the angrier I get....
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 18, 2007, 08:09:52 PM
Speaking of the IASC....while were on the topic (I suppose it IS the topic). From the "greed-and-controlling-magazines" department...a well-placed little birdie told me that the IASC had the NERVE to go to The Skateboard Mag and just about DEMAND free advertising. Can you believe these motherfuckers? It's a good thing TSM told them to go piss up a pole. Here is a start-up magazine who is trying like a motherfucker to not accept any 'outside the industry' advertising, and the IASC (lets call them the Billionaire Boys Club) has the nerve to ask for free advertising.

The more I hear, the angrier I get....

Imagine the Big Brother articles if it were still around today.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clarkie on February 18, 2007, 08:37:41 PM
That's odd, because The Skateboard Mag is one of their members:
http://skateboardiasc.org/membership.asp
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 18, 2007, 08:57:25 PM
That's odd, because The Skateboard Mag is one of their members:
http://skateboardiasc.org/membership.asp
The strangest thing on that page is the "Lifestyle Members" section... I mean, the fact that the section exists at all. I'm pretty sure it makes the baby Jesus cry.

Lifestyle, fah shu.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 18, 2007, 09:17:47 PM
i dont see highspeed anywhere...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: suckafoo on February 18, 2007, 09:37:48 PM
That's odd, because The Skateboard Mag is one of their members:
http://skateboardiasc.org/membership.asp

If you review the list, it is full of contradictions....Powell is on there, and they probably haven't sold a board that WASN"T blank in a minute.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: golgo13 on February 18, 2007, 09:48:33 PM
i dont see highspeed anywhere...
or girl/chocolate
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 18, 2007, 10:26:58 PM
Expand Quote
i dont see highspeed anywhere...
[close]
or girl/chocolate
probably cause they knew what a shitstorm this whole thing would cause, and (smartly) are gonna sit this one out.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: I taste blood on February 19, 2007, 02:23:58 AM
Grim, rest assured, that my reply was not intended to call you out, it was merely to state that your site by definition is propaganda (similar yet with a different objective to IASC) and to try and encourage some that may not be as involved as yourself. I think it's rad your so passionate about your local scene and although you may not care about pros, I like to see busenitz or whoever tearing it up in the vids, it gets me psyched to skate, so I want to support that...even if it's only to buy a video or a magazine.

Regarding all of this business crap, I'm sure all of this negative press for the IASC members will cause everyone to question their future involvement with the organization. So, it will probably dissolve for the most part and everyone can try to get back to the way things "used to be".

It's just so complicated, because there are rad things about every company out there, big or small, whether it be the riders, the artist or the dudes that work in the warehouse. Yet, everything seems to just get all lumped together. Politics suck, but they seem to exist in any thriving industry.

Most likely the companies that actually care for skateboarding will support the shops and carry on and the companies that are in it strictly for the money will be exposed and suffer accordingly.

...and the message board hate will continue to thrive.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: I taste blood on February 19, 2007, 02:32:27 AM
Oh and Grim, I know you're sharp, but here's the definition of "propaganda" for your convenience.

Propaganda [prop-uh-gan-duh] –noun
1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

Provided by Dictionary.com
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 19, 2007, 04:26:35 AM
It is propaganda but I wouldn't call it extreme unless you are saying that because you like wack slang. Couldn't really tell what you were doing with all the rads floating around in your post.

If you industry faggots aren't willing to talk too Grim's main point about selling to chain stores at a lower price and it's affect on core shops, that we actually care about, then get fucked with these conversational PR  post (aka propaganda). Sadly, the average age on the board here is much higher than 12 and you guys aren't fooling anyone with that shit.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 19, 2007, 04:47:12 AM
Grim, rest assured, that my reply was not intended to call you out, it was merely to state that your site by definition is propaganda (similar yet with a different objective to IASC) and to try and encourage some that may not be as involved as yourself. I think it's rad your so passionate about your local scene and although you may not care about pros, I like to see busenitz or whoever tearing it up in the vids, it gets me psyched to skate, so I want to support that...even if it's only to buy a video or a magazine.
I just think that "propaganda," in its common use, holds a negative and kind of ominous connotation. And though I know it's not the case each and every time, I usually imagine that the people spreading propaganda  have something to gain from it. Either way, it's all good.

Also, I never said that I don't "care" about pros... like I said on the main page of the site, I'm stoked on them. That doesn't mean I agree with the executives in the industry. I am getting a bit jaded at some of the pros though, as they're looking more and more like puppets these days. From the leaked document:
Quote
Have 12 top pro’s standing in row with blindfolds on simulating them on death row and the last days of pro skateboarding (jt)
Top pro skateboarder quoting “you don’t have to buy mine, just buy somebody’s” (rh)
It's not the pros I have a beef with... it's the money-hungry industry that seems to have lost touch with the average skater.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 19, 2007, 05:56:09 AM
It's not the pros I have a beef with... it's the money-hungry industry that seems to have lost touch with the average skater.

Exactly and everytime one of you faggots come on here to try and defend your position, it just makes it worst. You guys don't care about the Pro's, they are an expendible, marketing resource to you guys and honeslty most of you wouldn't know good skating if you saw it.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Wet Blanket on February 19, 2007, 07:41:59 AM
Expand Quote
i dont see highspeed anywhere...
[close]
or girl/chocolate

This might have been posted before...a response to the dwindle ad from lakai

http://www.lakai.com/06/index.php

Quote
2/05/2007

Uhhhhh, appreciate the mention here guys, but for real, you might want to rethink this strategy just a little bit--right idea, wrong approach. Maybe try looking at it in broader terms for a second. Like, say you're one of the many car consumers that's recently decided on buying a hybrid vehicle because $400 a month in gas was starting to get old. Shortly after, you start seeing ads by a slumping car manufacturer named GM that say "Every time you don't purchase an SUV from General Motors you are saying I donate to the Nazi regime." Doesn't exactly inspire you to run out and pick up a new Escalade now, does it? Look, GM lost $12 billion last year and they have thus far managed to avoid calling people that buy Prius' communists (at least not in print), so it seems like you might be able to do a little better than this as well. If not, please kindly omit us next time. Thanks.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jonny on February 19, 2007, 08:03:49 AM
"i taste blood"

who are you?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 19, 2007, 08:41:21 AM
Oh and Grim, I know you're sharp, but here's the definition of "propaganda" for your convenience.

Propaganda [prop-uh-gan-duh] –noun
1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

Provided by Dictionary.com
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.



wow, posting the dictionary definition ... Internet 101...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fahque on February 19, 2007, 08:55:17 AM
oh i thought the word propaganda was just a witty name for a video put out by our "friends" at powell....... can someone please reveal the identity of the obvious insider called "i taste blood"......
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 19, 2007, 09:20:25 AM
Hey, used-to-skate or currently skating industry people:

When did you decide that skateboarding owed you something?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on February 19, 2007, 09:47:31 AM
kinda offtopic, but interesting: now that this Under fire hit the shops, our local skateboard brand came out with the new stock, only now priced the same as all the big boys (wtf) and they also made new shop decks that are about 10$ cheaper, which is kinda funny...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 19, 2007, 11:20:06 AM
No good solutions?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 19, 2007, 11:23:52 AM
No good solutions?

is there a problem to solve?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 19, 2007, 11:51:12 AM
apparently there was. 
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on February 19, 2007, 11:57:27 AM
apparently there was. 

oh yeah. no more pros, sorry, forgot.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 19, 2007, 12:00:41 PM
I can't stand behind that. Guess I have my own take.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: urujuay on February 19, 2007, 12:01:59 PM
basically it boils down to fucking industry faggots, right sleaze?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: headache on February 19, 2007, 12:29:00 PM
Oh and Grim, I know you're sharp, but here's the definition of "propaganda" for your convenience.

Propaganda [prop-uh-gan-duh] –noun
1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.

2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.

Provided by Dictionary.com
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

What's a good battle without opposing sides of propaganda? I've made this analogy before but I'll make it again to break it down a bit for you. When 'big tobacco' spent 30 years using propaganda to convince people to smoke and convince people that it's a great social habit and doesn't cause cancer, society finally figured out that to even the playing field they had to launch their own form of propaganda AGAINST tobacco. And by all accounts, it's working.
That's why Grim's site is so brilliant. He's not lying, he's merely presenting the facts and his opinions on the situation that happen to be OPPOSED to the current propaganda that is currently out there that is slanted TOWARDS the skateboard industry. Which presents another view of the situation for those who want to make up their own minds. OK, just wanted to point out the obivous. I've been doing that a lot on here lately.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: I taste blood on February 19, 2007, 02:14:33 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: schmitt067 on February 19, 2007, 02:27:23 PM
Hey Grim I was wondering what prompted you to include a major IASC player (Jim Gray / ABC skates) as a supporter of your "fuck the IASC telling us what to do" website. You do hand write the supporters yourself, correct? Just curious.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 19, 2007, 03:37:17 PM
Hey Grim I was wondering what prompted you to include a major IASC player (Jim Gray / ABC skates) as a supporter of your "fuck the IASC telling us what to do" website. You do hand write the supporters yourself, correct? Just curious.
He wanted his name included on the list... that's the only prereq required.
And yeah, I put everyone's name on by hand (the lists are text files sitting on the server).
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: nomad on February 19, 2007, 06:56:00 PM
Basically all of you take this shit WAY to serious. Why have 22 pages of this shit. If you want to support Pro's.. buy a fucking pro deck. If you can't afford one.... buy a fucking shop deck. Who really fucking cares. The companies will figure out a way around it. They will adapt.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Assistant Janitor on February 19, 2007, 07:20:19 PM
Maybe in your world Paychecks magically appear in the mailbox

but in mine, "this shit we take WAY too serious", is our livelyhood and how we feed our families.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: artichoke on February 19, 2007, 07:25:52 PM
Maybe in your world Paychecks magically appear in the mailbox

but in mine, "this shit we take WAY too serious", is our livelyhood and how we feed our families.


Wahhhh.

You skate for a living, and if you were silly enough to start a family and try to support them off of it you're an idiot.  What are you going to do when you retire at 35?

It's also not our fault that your bosses are the ones who have let the blanks vs. pro deck issue get to this point.  The industry is to blame, not the consumers.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: kuman on February 19, 2007, 07:32:30 PM
Expand Quote
Maybe in your world Paychecks magically appear in the mailbox

but in mine, "this shit we take WAY too serious", is our livelyhood and how we feed our families.

[close]

Wahhhh.

You skate for a living, and if you were silly enough to start a family and try to support them off of it you're an idiot.  What are you going to do when you retire at 35?

It's also not our fault that your bosses are the ones who have let the blanks vs. pro deck issue get to this point.  The industry is to blame, not the consumers.

Harsh reality but reality all the same. 
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: 89-90pistons on February 19, 2007, 09:05:50 PM
Maybe in your world Paychecks magically appear in the mailbox

but in mine, "this shit we take WAY too serious", is our livelyhood and how we feed our families.

and by families, he means bar tab.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 19, 2007, 09:24:14 PM
HEHEHHEHE


"AND ONE"
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on February 20, 2007, 12:09:39 AM
grim are you having any more phone calls or important emails? it looks like IASC is going to wait till the dust settles and then go on with their campaign unchnaged...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 20, 2007, 06:26:30 AM
Hell yeah, I'm still getting a decent number of phone calls, but the emails are fucking flowing. During the day, all of the emails are from North America, then in the morning I wake up to emails that came in from the other side of the planet... it's fucking rad.

Regardless of what the IASC does at this point, it's out there. A cople of mags may be doing pieces on the controversy (versus simply acting like free advertisements) concerning this whole thing. Nothing's set in stone though.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: noah on February 20, 2007, 06:40:03 AM
Expand Quote
Maybe in your world Paychecks magically appear in the mailbox

but in mine, "this shit we take WAY too serious", is our livelyhood and how we feed our families.

[close]
and by families, he means bar tab.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fahque on February 20, 2007, 07:49:35 AM
keep on doing what your doing.... i can read this shit for days and days...
 ............GRIM for president..............
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 20, 2007, 11:15:42 AM
grim, check it!

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/4871/s5000216ng7.jpg
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 20, 2007, 11:17:34 AM
that graphic is sick, hows the board?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on February 20, 2007, 11:18:47 AM
its great, everyone out her is phsyched on the graphic too.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: headache on February 20, 2007, 11:25:31 AM
grim are you having any more phone calls or important emails? it looks like IASC is going to wait till the dust settles and then go on with their campaign unchnaged...

The damage is done. This isn't a case of 'oh, shit. The kids know what's up. Run to the hills!' The real problem is that SHOP OWNERS know that the battle lines have been drawn. And when shop owners rebel against certain companies, the companies may start to suffer. What will skateboard companies be left with after their mall and monster mail order accounts shrink up? A world full of skate shops selling shop decks and blanks. And the companies are going to have to kiss major ass to get back into bed with them comfortably.
So while this may seem like a friendly kid forum discussion, the topic is getting out there for shop owners to consider. They're not going to give up on their own decks just because a few pros have asked them to. Which leaves us at a draw in my eyes. I don't think this is supposed to be some kind of revolution. It's more like a wake up call for companies to start  making better jugement calls now and down the line.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: fahque on February 20, 2007, 12:13:08 PM
plastic bench.. i want one of those.... do you take paypal, and will that shop mail it to my shop? id trade shop deck for shop deck but mine are presently out of stock... how about some birdhouse boards for trade..?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 20, 2007, 01:32:37 PM
plastic bench.. i want one of those.... do you take paypal, and will that shop mail it to my shop? id trade shop deck for shop deck but mine are presently out of stock... how about some birdhouse boards for trade..?
http://www.slapmagazine.com/Mambo/forum/index.php?topic=9035.0
Full details, man.

Jayme... sickness, man! We hope you dig it.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: reaganomics on February 20, 2007, 02:54:36 PM
your the man
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 20, 2007, 03:02:04 PM
Hey, used-to-skate or currently skating industry people:

When did you decide that skateboarding owed you something?
right about the time they couldn't skate as well as they used to.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 20, 2007, 05:12:08 PM
The damage is done. This isn't a case of 'oh, shit. The kids know what's up. Run to the hills!' The real problem is that SHOP OWNERS know that the battle lines have been drawn.
This sums up about 99% of the emails I've been getting from shop owners... worded differently, but saying the exact same thing.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 21, 2007, 04:12:07 AM
I couldn't think of a better way to express my feelings on the issue than to skate one of those boards. I will order one today.

And fucking props on the graphics, clever idea done really well.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 21, 2007, 08:21:00 AM
I've been getting some emails that I've promised not to post... some insightful, angry emails (not angry at me) from people that insist that they remain anonymous.

IASC heads, you have a lot of people inside your organization that have a beef with you. What kind of meetings do you have, anyway?

I got one description (almost a direct quote), "A buch of dudes that hate each other, trying to get into the other dude's business...".

Shit is ill. Keep the emails coming.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jonny on February 21, 2007, 08:30:24 AM
I couldn't think of a better way to express my feelings on the issue than to skate one of those boards. I will order one today.

And fucking props on the graphics, clever idea done really well.

is that derek simon???????

is there any footage of that in videos?? [four duos]
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 21, 2007, 08:33:55 AM
Yeah, it's Derek. I had seen the sequence but never the video. I don't remember seeing it in the 4D montages but not 100% sure.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on February 21, 2007, 08:40:17 AM
hm, mods when will this post get pinned?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Guile on February 21, 2007, 10:41:15 AM
when you feed reynolds baby.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: daboss on February 21, 2007, 11:47:48 AM
I'm going to buy a blank deck tonight because i can't afford a graphic deck. I would love to support some pros but i'm not makin much money right now.  I'd rather skate than not skate.

Fuck the iasc, they are retarded and i'm not buying anymore flip, baker or any other boards that were in the article. I'm going to support real skateboarding, i'm going to support the companies that support skateboarding, not the companies that just want profits.

Here's an example of what is killing skateboarding right now. Instead of the businesses changing their business plan, they BLAME the consumer for the companies being fucking retards and not doing good business.

I don't know if anyone remembers when pepsi took over coke as the leading soft drink company, but what did coke do? They didnt blame the kids buying pepsi, they blamed themselves and fixed the problem.

How about the companies stop buying their rider gold chains and bullshit like that and start investing money into the future of skateboarding and building superstars. It's not our fault that companies don't know how to do business or haven't innovated anything in the last 10 years that would warrant a 60 dollar deck. A 30 dollar shop deck is just as good as a 60 dollar graphic deck.

WAKE UP Giant corporations , kids aren't dumb anymore, they have access to information EVERYWHERE!

Fix your own fucking problems, i'll be out skateboarding and trolling the slap message boards.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 21, 2007, 11:49:44 AM
lol

that ripped!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: daboss on February 21, 2007, 11:56:49 AM
<---trolling.....  :-*
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 21, 2007, 12:18:11 PM
I don't know if anyone remembers when pepsi took over coke as the leading soft drink company, but what did coke do? They didnt blame the kids buying pepsi, they blamed themselves and fixed the problem.
yeah-with "new coke!"
it worked wonders as i recall...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: daboss on February 21, 2007, 12:21:15 PM
Expand Quote
I don't know if anyone remembers when pepsi took over coke as the leading soft drink company, but what did coke do? They didnt blame the kids buying pepsi, they blamed themselves and fixed the problem.
[close]
yeah-with "new coke!"
it worked wonders as i recall...

New coke was horrible... it's sorta like pro decks... slap some new graphics on em, they skate better.... wait, no they dont.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 21, 2007, 09:22:23 PM
New album out now!
(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/camm122/LouPearlman.jpg)
 the wall street ballaz are back!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Alexactly on February 21, 2007, 09:26:54 PM
I'm fucking suing. 
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 21, 2007, 09:35:01 PM
I'm fucking suing. 

watch yo back punk. The Ia$c dont play that. We muscle are way around and no one is stepping.
We're tough, buy our album.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 21, 2007, 09:56:37 PM
Is this TK?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: dixie normus on February 21, 2007, 10:02:15 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vxj3J7u5eAM
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: IASC BOARD MEMBER on February 21, 2007, 10:22:58 PM
I think a coleage of mine by the name of Jim Gray would be interested in this.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Farm on February 21, 2007, 10:25:24 PM
(http://www.consolidatedskateboard.com/images/letsmakeadeal.consolidated.gif)
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: TheFrontSeatLife on February 22, 2007, 02:09:18 AM
Support brands that ARE giving back 5boro is a prime example. Steve Rodriguez, the co-owner of the company, took saving the Brooklyn Banks into his own hands (with the help of a few others I'm assuming) and didn't let it get demolished. Respects earned, respects given.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: nate sherwood on February 22, 2007, 07:09:07 AM
TRUE DAT.

Support brands that ARE giving back 5boro is a prime example. Steve Rodriguez, the co-owner of the company, took saving the Brooklyn Banks into his own hands (with the help of a few others I'm assuming) and didn't let it get demolished. Respects earned, respects given.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: bumptobar on February 22, 2007, 07:20:24 AM
Yeah, 5boro is the shit, so is consolidated.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: headache on February 22, 2007, 12:00:50 PM
Support brands that ARE giving back 5boro is a prime example. Steve Rodriguez, the co-owner of the company, took saving the Brooklyn Banks into his own hands (with the help of a few others I'm assuming) and didn't let it get demolished. Respects earned, respects given.
I agree compltetely. I think you have to look at each company and stay informed as a skater. Not only to know where and how the decks are made (cuz that obviously defines how good they will be) and support the companies that are supporting skateboarding. I think it's that easy. There are quite a few companies that invest in skating and give back..it's fairly easy to search them out. If you're down with them, support them. Bottom line. Each company has a different story.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 22, 2007, 12:01:59 PM
Anyone here familiar with http://www.tacky.dk ? They linked up and the site started getting flooded again.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: P-Sk8 on February 22, 2007, 12:24:16 PM
Anyone here familiar with http://www.tacky.dk ? They linked up and the site started getting flooded again.

Tacky is a Scandinavian web portal for skaters and snowboarders. They are run out of Norway www.tacky.no but have local editors in Sweden, Denmark and Holland www.tackyworld.com

Check out tackyworld, its in english.

The most striking aspect of the site as you will see is the local coverage, local pros the local scene..

In Europe there is no problem with blanks or shop decks, instead you see a community of thriving local brands, crews that save up the money they make delivering newspapers or selling weed and starting their own skatebrand.

There are no haters, nobody is getting rich, the local brands support the local rippers, skateboards are sold in skateshops, everybody is just having a good time.

Kids are stoked on the US pros, but they are also equally stoked on their local heroes.

Before the IASC debacle US brands did not sell much at all, now sales will probably decrease.

Anyhow, this is a good thread, I follow and observe. Neal, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 22, 2007, 03:59:10 PM
no haters? come on now
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 23, 2007, 09:01:54 AM
I just wanted to drop a note and say this for people that are still reading this... the blank, shop, regional (city wide) deck fiasco is only a problem because the big dogs aren't making money off of them... which is obvious, since that what they've been saying, but there's more.

1. Americans can't own factories in China. Communism won't allow it. American companies can at best partner with these manufacturers, but in lots of cases it's strictly a case of a company buying the decks from China for branding.

2. In many cases, one woodshop will provide decks for several companies (not new news).

3. From multiple sources: The end goal is to have all shop and small time regional decks come from one of the larger branded companies... bascially a monopoly. Instead of a shop deck that's strictly branded by the shop, there are those in the industry that would rather have you throw your graphics on "X" branded boards (shop graphics on one side, maybe with a company name on top). This isn't to be confused with the co-branded decks that some companies have done.

Summary: Some of the big dogs want to be larger scale brokers of decks and act as middlemen between the manus and the retailer. Some of this may speculation, but I've been hearing this from a LOT of people.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on February 23, 2007, 12:52:54 PM
sounds like some people aren't just content with being rich.


Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: G_Feeble on February 24, 2007, 02:31:22 AM
I just wanted to drop a note and say this for people that are still reading this...

Grim I hope that skaters and IASC's are still reading this thread.  Just because the directive from IA$C H.Q. is to keep quiet on all matters - in hopes that this might magically go away doesn't mean you, I or US as a group have to remain silent.

Keep gathering the info, public, private or otherwise and keep calling the BS where you see it.   

Anyone who see's fit can contact me to dish, bash, or whatever.  I'm humble, I can handle it.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clarkie on February 24, 2007, 09:12:47 AM
Heidi Lemmon asked me to post this: (She's not following this board, but knows IASC only TOO well.)

Hi Clarkie,

The skateboard industry had something special. It was an entire industry that ran off skateboarding / skateboarders. IASC companies are the big corporate ones who opened the doors to manufacturing first their clothing and later their skateboards in China.

They have trained the Chinese to manufacture skateboards and related goods.The Chinese factories are manufacturing for everyone, all over the world. They specialize in private label but are also developing their own brands. They import Canadian Maple so when you see Canadian Maple on the advertisement it does not mean it was made in Canada or the USA. This has changed everything and now the IASC companies don't want you to buy blanks or private label. It has sort of backfired on them. The end result is that skateboarding is more affordable for most kids and will grow at a faster rate. At the same time many of the IASC companies are seeing their sales fall at record rates because they no longer control the market. They are going to have to compete in a global marketplace and they are not prepared. Most pros have never been paid well if they were paid at all. These companies made a fortune off their pros and it is time for them to find another way to pay them. They may have to dip into something other than board sales to pay them.. like their soft goods.

Skateboards may become the business card/ advertisement of the future. Little money will be made off them but they will be used to market a company and gain brand recognition for more profitable lines.

If IASC spent more time dealing with their issues and less time passing helmet / pad laws they would not be so surprised at what is happening in the market place.
Heidi Lemmon
SPAUSA
Thank you for contacting SPAUSA
Heidi Lemmon
executive director SPAUSA
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 24, 2007, 09:16:55 AM
Heidi rocks. She did a lot to help us when I was working with a Baton Rouge based skatepark activist group.

Off topic: I think it's ironic that so many capitalists depend on communism to be successful capitalists.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clarkie on February 24, 2007, 09:35:23 AM
haahahh that's right, grim, and then if it backfires - you call your end product user communists!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 24, 2007, 09:40:27 AM
haahahh that's right, grim, and then if it backfires - you call your end product user communists!
Well then I'd be a plagiarist... haha
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: manual on February 24, 2007, 10:11:50 AM
Ive been following this its interesting. I own a fuck load of skate videos and if you look carefully you can kind of see whats going on in the industry its pretty funny sometimes.Same with skate mags aswell. Im just a average skater but ive always looked away from the limelight, the "whos hot" kinda thing and watched people like Trevor Prescott,Lucian Moon,"Static" kind of skaters, the "invisibles" basicly. I like to buy from and support smaller companys from very small to sort of semi small like Western Edition. And then now Magik and soon Turf. If they make good boards,a good minded owner that actually skates,the skaters on the team are respectable and each have there own mind and arent money hungry then im into it. I feel happy buying from them. Dwindle etc just feel like big scary corparations with these dudes in suits on the top floor of a sky scraper with a white board planning ways to get impressionable kids to buy boards and try desperatly to get every last bit of money out of skateboarding. Ive bought my fair share of pro models just a few blanks in between when I dont have much money but ive been buying smaller companies boards for the past 3 years.The dwindle ad was stupid because people buy blanks because they dont have as much money not because we because of one of the stupid reasons they put in there. I like all the people on here you know what your talking about and its good some of you are putting it into a action which is definetly going to change skateboarding for the better.It has to change it feels pretty bad right now.I just mean the industry, skateboarding will never change for me as long as i have my mind and my body and a skateboard.Sorry for the long post just wanted to have my say, now ill zip it.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on February 24, 2007, 11:10:58 AM
Ok, this is a rumor... nothing but a rumor:  I got word passed to me from a pro (not involved with this at all) to a friend of mine that the phone call I had with Steve was recorded.

If it was in fact recorded, I'd really like to see it put up for public display (since I was involved in the conversation and wasn't notified that it might be on tape, it's the least I can ask).

If it wasn't, sorry for this post.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 24, 2007, 11:15:37 AM
jesus, this thing is turning into the Pelican Brief...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 24, 2007, 11:25:19 AM
Ok, this is a rumor... nothing but a rumor:  I got word passed to me from a pro (not involved with this at all) to a friend of mine that the phone call I had with Steve was recorded.

If it was in fact recorded, I'd really like to see it put up for public display (since I was involved in the conversation and wasn't notified that it might be on tape, it's the least I can ask).

If it wasn't, sorry for this post.

If they recorded your voice without your permission then they have broke the law. I got a legal service that I use that's like insurance where you pay a monthly fee and then have lawyers availble as needed. I am aloud to ask any legal questions for free. If you want me to check into this for you just give me the word.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: daboss on February 25, 2007, 10:22:26 AM
if they did in fact record you they are doing 1 of 2 things.

1. using your ideas to market to the kids.

2. trying to use it against you so they can sue you. 

1 is more plausible because they can't lawfully record you without your consent, thats why insurance companies and other businesses tell you that you "may be recorded for quality and training purposes".

I'd like to see how far this goes.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Matze on February 25, 2007, 12:55:03 PM
new watergate scandal?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 25, 2007, 01:11:03 PM
of course it is just a rumor, but its still worth knowing that it is illegal to record a telephone call without the other party's consent...   in the USA i think it may be a federal offence, like mail fraud, because telephone lines cross state lines.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 25, 2007, 01:15:05 PM
A couple of washed up skateboarders recorded a phone call. Who the fuck cares.

Industry heads break the law everyday when they go out and scratch handrails or whatever. They arn't legit businesses.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sfa on February 25, 2007, 01:23:15 PM
id just like to say im proud of everyone for thinking about this shit and for a lot of you taking action.

good job.

skating will be safe, because there are people who give a fuck.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clarkie on February 25, 2007, 03:40:56 PM
Law is law; same for everybody:

"California law does not allow tape recording of telephone calls unless all parties to the conversation consent (California Penal Code 632), or they are notified of the recording by a distinct "beep tone" warning (CPUC General Order 107-B(II)(A)(5)). However, tape recordings can legally be made if an individual or members of one's family are threatened with kidnapping, extortion, bribery or another felony involving violence. The person receiving the threats can make a tape recording without informing the other party. (California Penal Code 633.5)"

"California’s 1967 Invasion of Privacy Act, which established the two-consent requirement, provides treble damages or $5,000 per violation, whichever is greater."

I am going to take up a collection for Neal (whether he likes it or not) in hope he will use it to pay for professional legal advice on this matter and what may come up in the future. I will donate every penny to Neal, I swear. Earmark it "for Neal." I will send him a roster of all the contributors w/amounts.

http://realskate.com/paypal.htm
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 25, 2007, 06:48:23 PM
Law is law; same for everybody:

"California law does not allow tape recording of telephone calls unless all parties to the conversation consent (California Penal Code 632), or they are notified of the recording by a distinct "beep tone" warning (CPUC General Order 107-B(II)(A)(5)). However, tape recordings can legally be made if an individual or members of one's family are threatened with kidnapping, extortion, bribery or another felony involving violence. The person receiving the threats can make a tape recording without informing the other party. (California Penal Code 633.5)"

"California’s 1967 Invasion of Privacy Act, which established the two-consent requirement, provides treble damages or $5,000 per violation, whichever is greater."

I am going to take up a collection for Neal (whether he likes it or not) in hope he will use it to pay for professional legal advice on this matter and what may come up in the future. I will donate every penny to Neal, I swear. Earmark it "for Neal." I will send him a roster of all the contributors w/amounts.

http://realskate.com/paypal.htm

Call the cops, pussy.

That's a ridiculous law, and all you have for evidence is the word of a nobody pro.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 25, 2007, 07:17:30 PM
why is that a ridiculous law?  right to privacy is ridiculous?  im sorry, but thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard...

yeah, lets all give up our basic rights; don't want to be labeled a pussy!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: somekid on February 25, 2007, 07:45:12 PM
yeah, especially if you're getting called a pussy on the internet.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Mentos on February 25, 2007, 07:59:36 PM
Well didn't George Bush pass the PATRIOT act which allows monitoring of phone and internet lines without permits? There is no such thing as privacy (at least in the US).
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 25, 2007, 08:03:38 PM
Get the fuck out of here. $5,000 for recording a phone call with some webmaster from Louisiana? Pffft.

You stupid fucks think there taking that one phone call, recording it, and analyzing it to see what this guy, who represents maybe 1/60 of the skate population, thinks? No.

I read and Ocean Howell article where he talked about companies having spy cameras taking overhead pictures of kids skateboarding down the street and drinking soda. There probably sueing.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: sebastian toombs on February 25, 2007, 08:08:54 PM
how sad to see the pointless diversion this thread has taken.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on February 25, 2007, 08:18:00 PM
I read and Ocean Howell article where he talked about companies having spy cameras taking overhead pictures of kids skateboarding down the street and drinking soda. There probably sueing.

i dont think filming people in a public place is illegal, unless you were filming up someone's skirt or something.  I think Nike will be safe, so don't get your panties in a bunch...

and nobody is going to sue over a recorded phone call, but if it is true it just shows how shady these people can be and further proves grim's point...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 25, 2007, 08:22:53 PM
how sad to see the pointless diversion this thread has taken.

Shut up.

Quote
Popular advertising strategies will always be embarrassing: Remember the procession of rapping grandmas from the late 1980s? But what I've really objected to are the Orwellian market research tactics used to develop the campaigns. Focus groups are one thing ­ but much more invasive tactics are becoming standard practice. Hoping to pay down his student loans, a friend of mine left a job at a skateboard magazine to work at one of the major US clothing companies desperate to target skaters and other young hipsters. Its design rooms were filled with long-lens "sniper photos" of skateboarders walking down the street, riding their boards, sitting around drinking soda. This went a bit beyond the aggressive wooing of public figures by paparazzi. Ordinary skaters were now subject to menacing levels of surveillance.

http://www.webdelsol.com/Topic/articles/04/howell.html

It's legal, but THAT is shady as hell. Spying on little kids skating down the street? Damn.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Gest on February 25, 2007, 08:24:11 PM
neil

im coming down to louisiana soon.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: G_Feeble on February 26, 2007, 02:38:41 AM
This thread has deviated from what Grim asked point-blank in the first place. 

Why is the IASC, Dwindle, Blitz and all other IASC members not addressing one of the main issues raised by this thread & website in the first place? BIG BOX STORES (BBS) being a category killer of skateboarding? 

I have read that IASC Under Fire articles so many times now, and the only one that makes any real sense is Joe Burlo, the owner of Blueprint. He said it best when referring to International distributors and the relationship with US skate companies. But the same can be applied in regards to US skate companies and Big Box Stores.

Just replace his use of the word, distributors, with BBS and it makes as much sense.

He stated “On the flipside companies with bigger names should choose their International distributors carefully and not take the short term view of “Give me the big order now and the distribution rights are yours”.  If the distributor shows little respect for skateboarding by heavily discounting brand new product within two weeks so they can place another big order, then look elsewhere.”

Maybe they address this issue that’s most true to skate shop owners hearts and stop shifting focus to Blanks, Shop decks and Small brands destroying their poor market share and profits.

“Cheers !” to Heidi … She hit it on the head.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: daboss on February 26, 2007, 04:09:30 PM
A couple of washed up skateboarders recorded a phone call. Who the fuck cares.

Industry heads break the law everyday when they go out and scratch handrails or whatever. They arn't legit businesses.

So you're saying that Black Box distribution isn't a legit business? The dude makes 10's of millions of dollars a year, get a clue.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: DrNewton on February 26, 2007, 06:56:53 PM
Expand Quote
A couple of washed up skateboarders recorded a phone call. Who the fuck cares.

Industry heads break the law everyday when they go out and scratch handrails or whatever. They arn't legit businesses.
[close]

So you're saying that Black Box distribution isn't a legit business? The dude makes 10's of millions of dollars a year, get a clue.

How about you get the fucking clue douchebag? Drug operations make tens of millions every year too. Are they legit?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Matze on February 26, 2007, 09:01:32 PM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
A couple of washed up skateboarders recorded a phone call. Who the fuck cares.

Industry heads break the law everyday when they go out and scratch handrails or whatever. They arn't legit businesses.
[close]

So you're saying that Black Box distribution isn't a legit business? The dude makes 10's of millions of dollars a year, get a clue.
[close]

How about you get the fucking clue douchebag? Drug operations make tens of millions every year too. Are they legit?


it makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: CHIANG MAI on February 27, 2007, 05:17:34 AM
yeah, youre prety much a dumb dumb face.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: lurkstatus on February 27, 2007, 08:31:28 AM
here's a solution

(http://i18.tinypic.com/2ron6nq.jpg)

the ad is from the supercentral mb
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on February 27, 2007, 11:54:04 AM
nice, props to esstech on those
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: vita345 on February 27, 2007, 04:53:27 PM
sold
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: daboss on February 27, 2007, 04:54:32 PM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
A couple of washed up skateboarders recorded a phone call. Who the fuck cares.

Industry heads break the law everyday when they go out and scratch handrails or whatever. They arn't legit businesses.
[close]

So you're saying that Black Box distribution isn't a legit business? The dude makes 10's of millions of dollars a year, get a clue.
[close]

How about you get the fucking clue douchebag? Drug operations make tens of millions every year too. Are they legit?


You are super smart. Jaime Thomas is legit because he pays taxes... haha... you must be a 30 year old industry kook from ASR that wears the "hawtest" new trends and biggest sunglasses and has a faux-hawk. Either way, youre a tard.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Meta Skateboards on February 27, 2007, 10:45:44 PM
The best part about this thread was how long it took to drop to this level.

I hope everyone realizes the impact that Neal had on the industry.

Props!!!!!!

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Matze on March 03, 2007, 06:32:25 AM
update?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on March 03, 2007, 06:43:47 AM
update?
Lots of emails still, and still a few phone calls but nothing really severe.

Every corpo that calls me is still under the impression that I own the skateshop that I rep all the time.
I played email tag with Todd Swank but we never got a phone conversation together... I know he disagrees with some of the things on the site (I don't know what yet) but he seems to appreciate the site for what it is. I keep hearing he's a good guy from a lot of different people, so I'm looking forward to talking to him.

Question: before Tum yeto, did Todd have anything to do with Limpies? I'd like to see those come back... they'd make great pajamas.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clarkie on March 03, 2007, 08:44:52 AM
Chip Morton invented limpies.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on March 03, 2007, 11:42:56 AM
Chip Morton invented limpies.
Ah, that's right... my memories are all jumbled up.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: roulette on March 03, 2007, 12:58:08 PM
LIMPIES!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: monster network on March 04, 2007, 02:21:05 AM
swank had the limpies ad with that 'turd' sculpture that was down in san diego
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on March 04, 2007, 12:24:33 PM
http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz/features/article/0,21214,1589575,00.html

same old shit from slap.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on March 05, 2007, 08:35:25 PM
Todd and I never spoke on the phone, which is understandable... but tonight I recieved an email from someone who will remain anonymous. This appears to be an email going from Tum Yeto out to shops... the emphasis is mine:

Quote
Date: March 5th, 2007
Contact: (800)886-9386
www.tumyeto.com
[email protected]
RE: We Believe Discount Program
To Our Retail Partners,
Tum Yeto is committed to working with our retailers to offer exciting products and margins that make sense for us both. This allows us both to work together to support Professional skateboarding and the skateboarding culture we all appreciate and relish in. We believe in skateboarding and it's culture.
Following the publication of the IASC/TWS Business supplement on blank and shop board effects on the over all industry, there has been much speculation and understandably a good round of haters regarding matters brought forth. (I have been a long time supporter of IASC. Served as Chairman and have been on the Board of Directors for 3 years.) As I told my staff and the accounts I talked to, we all need to understand that this effort was done to bring dialog out in the open to discuss serious matters that effects all of our businesses and the skateboarding culture. It has been great because it has created dialog where there was little to none before. People can, will and should disagree. Everyone should have passion for what they believe and defend that passion. I honor all of you that have the balls to stand up for what you believe whether or not I disagree with it or not. This is our culture and our industry and we should not let that be undermined.
As the supplement indicated all of us need to do our part in order to fight off the insurgence and bond together for a strong and united industry. The manufacturer, the brands, the distributor, the retailer and media. I am honored to announce Tum Yeto's initiative to contribute our part in this campaign. In order to support core and larger quality retailers alike that support professional skateboarding by not selling blanks and one step further not selling shop decks Tum Yeto is offering a special discounts programs giving better margins to our retailing partners.
To qualify retailers must honor no blanks and/or no shop deck policy. They must be committed to grass roots activities. And they must represent a full range of our brands products.
We will continue to strive to make exciting new products like the Fiberlam (patent Pending and TM) Technology decks which straight out we included a $4 discount to benefit the retailer. As well as, do our part to create excitement and promote skateboarding throughout the world. Team tours, events, demos and video releases like the acclaimed Toy Machine "Suffer The Joy" DVD and anticipated Foundation "Cataclysmic Abyss" DVD.
Thanks everyone. Please contact your sales cooperative here at Tum Yeto to join us on this crusade for skateboarding superiority!
Keep On Rolling.
 
 
Tod Swank
Founder and CEO
Tum Yeto, Inc

Personally, I appreciate that it's an inticement rather than a strong arm tactic, but I'm not cool with the targeting of shop decks. I can't speak to any other scenes but mine, but around here, shop decks aren't usually sold because they're cheaper, they're sold because the locals here choose to represent the shop (when they aren't riding a pro/logo deck).

Anyway, nothing Earth-shattering, but it's an update all the same.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: alexander32thegrea on March 05, 2007, 09:05:37 PM
you gotta stop being a bunch of fucking faggots and go out and ride your fucking skateboard around your city, town, a fucking dirt road!! fuckk the sad thing is half you little queers dont even skate and are on this shit 24/7. you will be dust soon enough so find what you enjoy and go do it. but stop talking about this pointless grabage bullshit
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on March 05, 2007, 09:21:23 PM
I like it when people on a messageboard bitch about other people being active on a messageboard. I mean, if you had given me a phone call and said "hey, stop all of that messageboard faggery," I'd be like, "well, aside from the generous use of the word fag, maybe he has a point!"

But since you took the time to create a post (rather than go outside and practice crooked grinds), you're as faggotty as the rest of us.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: lophatrophazoa on March 05, 2007, 09:40:44 PM
just checked out the site cause i dont go into skate chat much, but its damn good
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clarkie on March 05, 2007, 10:27:35 PM
hahah I was going to point out the same thing, grimcity. 

Well this sounds more like the "We Suck Discount Program." I'm sure shops are going to take him up on that ultimatum, throw away their shop decks and go out and buy all of Tumyeto products right away! Interesting, Tod says they did the 32 pager to encourage dialog, yet the dialog they got that wasn't in agreement with them he calls them haters? That's dialog, Tod.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: G_Feeble on March 06, 2007, 10:32:06 PM
This is from another message board thats debating the Tod Swank comments as well ... I haven't heard it so perfectly stated ...

I like how he said that you also need to carry the full line of the products. I think Black Box (Zero, Fallen etc) also put out a similar call to arms.

So, if I understand it correctly, they will give you a deal if you agree to not sell shop/blank decks, but you also need to spend more by carrying their full line (or close I suppose).

So if you only carry Toy Machine and maybe pig wheels now, you will also need to carry every other brand they make, so this means sending them more of your money to get a discount and possibly sitting on product that may not move in your area.

Doesnt quite seem like they are really giving us much incentive. Thats a pretty normal price incentives for most companies it seems.

They can keep up all the jabber jawing about blanks and shop decks until the cows come home, but until I actually see the IASC throw their weight around with their members and quit selling to large sporting goods and large corporate stores drawing customers away from my shop and until I get a phone call from them asking when they can setup a demo for my shop, have the tour swing by our park and do some promos with my shop, its pretty much just talk.

I have said it many times before, I understand their whole movement and that they are getting worried, and I agree with part of what they are saying, but a lot of these guys are hypocrites by selling to large chain stores, sporting goods stores, etc and then whining to us how us shops dont support pro skateboarding.

Quit whining about us not supprting you when you turn around and not support us by selling to anyone with a check book. If you truly supported the core skateshops your product wouldnt be in Kohls or Dicks Sporting goods.

The moment I see Todd Swank call anyone that sells their boards at large chain retailers and sporting goods stores a bunch of money grubbing greedy bitches for selling their products at those stores thats the moment I call him up personally and buy two of every product he carries.

Until you truly support the core skateshop shut the fuck up. I am tired of it already. I would be selling more gear in my shop if I didnt have to compete with Dicks, Toys R Us, Kohls, Sears, etc.

http://www.toysrus.com/search/index.j...tId=&view=all

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/fam...d=779667&pg=1

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/fam...613&cp=701963

http://www.kohls.com/main/subcategory...UID=1173214934419

http://www.sportsauthority.com/catego...origkw=skateboard

Two things I am really getting tired of hearing about from these guys:

1) We dont need price point products. People will pay a premium price for premium products.

Really? Tell that to Hawk who pimps his products at Kohls for the exact very same reason you say we shouldnt sell our price point products for.

2) We want to support core skateshops but you core skateshops need to support us by buying more products from us and not sell blanks or shop decks.

Really? If you really support us, quit selling to non core skateshop like huge sporting goods chains and large chain retail stores.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 07, 2007, 12:02:04 AM
^ This is a great post!

I will say though, I have noticed skateshops aren't supporting skate brands in clothes and shoes either. Shits be looking like boutiques and not skate shops. I was pretty shocked and not even sure what a "core" skate shop is anymore. It's like if it's not in a mall it's ok? Shu, when I walk into these shops I don't feel like these are shops that are down for skating, I feel like it's a shop down for money. It's clear as day and  NOT like what it used to be.
I'm not taking sides at all but there's 2 sides to this. Hopefully this thing gets resolved soon cause I personally don't want to compete with companies that have entirely NO BUSINESS marketing to skaters.  We all need to realize that the 2 need to meet an agreement that's in the best interest of skating, and as always KEEP THE LEECHES OUT!

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MrCokesNSmokes on March 07, 2007, 12:43:01 AM
^ This is a great post!

I will say though, I have noticed skateshops aren't supporting skate brands in clothes and shoes either. Shits be looking like boutiques and not skate shops. I was pretty shocked and not even sure what a "core" skate shop is anymore. It's like if it's not in a mall it's ok? Shu, when I walk into these shops I don't feel like these are shops that are down for skating, I feel like it's a shop down for money. It's clear as day and  NOT like what it used to be.
I'm not taking sides at all but there's 2 sides to this. Hopefully this thing gets resolved soon cause I personally don't want to compete with companies that have entirely NO BUSINESS marketing to skaters.  We all need to realize that the 2 need to meet an agreement that's in the best interest of skating, and as always KEEP THE LEECHES OUT!



Sanch, what should this "agreement" entail? Where's the middle ground that we're all supposed to arrive at on this......?

Just curious.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 07, 2007, 01:01:52 AM
first off, keeping it skate only on both sides. Why I'm seeing Nike in shops as the only skate shoe is beyond me??? If that's not a sign of a problem I don't know what is. I'll give them some breathing room though. They have hired some people to help them "seem" down and have supported their riders really well. THAT DON'T MEAN TO SELL NIKE ONLY!!!! Seeing too many streetwear brands that aren't skate related at all and no Matix or 4star or other skate gear, and that don't have to include me. I can wait and go thru the shit. Seeing brands like element and world in malls. Anything in malls or dicks sporting supply or any chain stores for that matter. The problem with that is they buy in such bulk that they can sell cheaper than anyone else.

 I feel like a warning was put out that this is the last year on earth and everybodies just scrambling around with dollar sign eyes trying to make the quickest buck. Seriously. I don't claim to know it all but there is 2 sides to everything and they both need to meet if they REALLY care about the future of skating and keeping it's integrity intact. CLEARLY A LOT OF WHAT I'M SEEING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CARING FOR SKATING. IT'S ABOUT MONEY FOR THEMSELVES.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on March 07, 2007, 04:02:42 AM
first off, keeping it skate only on both sides. Why I'm seeing Nike in shops as the only skate shoe is beyond me??? If that's not a sign of a problem I don't know what is. I'll give them some breathing room though. They have hired some people to help them "seem" down and have supported their riders really well. THAT DON'T MEAN TO SELL NIKE ONLY!!!!

10 or so years ago i would have been stoked if FTC or whereever started selling dope nikes that you could skate in, i bet you and a lot of your boys would've been too.

obviously selling just nikes is fucked, are shops really doing this?

skate shoe companies started this by getting greedy and trying to take nike on.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 07, 2007, 04:25:50 AM
a problem may be that they can't possibly make enough shoes in a timely manner as Nike. Not sure but it makes sense.

"i bet you and a lot of your boys would've been too."

As a youth I didn't really care but now that I'm older and wiser I don't think real skate shoe companies should have to lose ANY of their market share to a company like Nike. Like Beanie said, "stick to basketball or something".


"obviously selling just nikes is fucked, are shops really doing this?"

Yes, I have seen this and pretty damn close to it on other occasions. I don't recall any skate brand trying to aquire Dwyane Wade.

"skate shoe companies started this by getting greedy and trying to take nike on."

Wtf is shoe company supposed to do just bow down and give them the key to skateboard city.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: otis b driftwood on March 07, 2007, 04:33:26 AM

"skate shoe companies started this by getting greedy and trying to take nike on."

Wtf is shoe company supposed to do just bow down and give them the key to skateboard city.

nah, i meant when skate shoe companies started selling their shit in sport shops and marketing to non-skaters.

DC timberlands?

i've been trying to find that picture of half of EMB sat on a ledge and they're all wearing nikes, the message i got from that as a kid was "skate shoes are gay".

and they were.

and nowadays most of the ones that aren't are a nike bite.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: spracker on March 07, 2007, 07:34:10 AM
I was pretty shocked and not even sure what a "core" skate shop is anymore.

  Freedom skateshop in Ukiah California, dirty old plywood display cases, the place rules, I bought a board from them I didn't need yet just because they were a good old fashioned skateshop.

the message i got from that as a kid was "skate shoes are gay".


  Anyone else remember the Puma craze that swept EMB in the early 90's? IMO the attitude was "skate shoes are gay".
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on March 07, 2007, 08:56:32 AM
talking about nike here is quite off topic, but they way you guys dish skate shoes is sad. nuff said.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jennysue on March 07, 2007, 10:01:25 AM
Fuck you Todd Swank. Your dumb ass has been all over the phones trying to get Big shops to do their shop decks through TUM YETO. I mean you just bought a WoodShop, you got to keep it up and running some how. Days if not hours after a big IASC meeting about SHOP DECKS AND BLANKS you were sending emails to BIG shops begging for their shop deck business. Swank, I sure hope you don't have a hard time sleeping at night. Well of course you won't.
YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE


Todd and I never spoke on the phone, which is understandable... but tonight I recieved an email from someone who will remain anonymous. This appears to be an email going from Tum Yeto out to shops... the emphasis is mine:

Quote
Expand Quote
Date: March 5th, 2007
Contact: (800)886-9386
www.tumyeto.com
[email protected]
RE: We Believe Discount Program
To Our Retail Partners,
Tum Yeto is committed to working with our retailers to offer exciting products and margins that make sense for us both. This allows us both to work together to support Professional skateboarding and the skateboarding culture we all appreciate and relish in. We believe in skateboarding and it's culture.
Following the publication of the IASC/TWS Business supplement on blank and shop board effects on the over all industry, there has been much speculation and understandably a good round of haters regarding matters brought forth. (I have been a long time supporter of IASC. Served as Chairman and have been on the Board of Directors for 3 years.) As I told my staff and the accounts I talked to, we all need to understand that this effort was done to bring dialog out in the open to discuss serious matters that effects all of our businesses and the skateboarding culture. It has been great because it has created dialog where there was little to none before. People can, will and should disagree. Everyone should have passion for what they believe and defend that passion. I honor all of you that have the balls to stand up for what you believe whether or not I disagree with it or not. This is our culture and our industry and we should not let that be undermined.
As the supplement indicated all of us need to do our part in order to fight off the insurgence and bond together for a strong and united industry. The manufacturer, the brands, the distributor, the retailer and media. I am honored to announce Tum Yeto's initiative to contribute our part in this campaign. In order to support core and larger quality retailers alike that support professional skateboarding by not selling blanks and one step further not selling shop decks Tum Yeto is offering a special discounts programs giving better margins to our retailing partners.
To qualify retailers must honor no blanks and/or no shop deck policy. They must be committed to grass roots activities. And they must represent a full range of our brands products.
We will continue to strive to make exciting new products like the Fiberlam (patent Pending and TM) Technology decks which straight out we included a $4 discount to benefit the retailer. As well as, do our part to create excitement and promote skateboarding throughout the world. Team tours, events, demos and video releases like the acclaimed Toy Machine "Suffer The Joy" DVD and anticipated Foundation "Cataclysmic Abyss" DVD.
Thanks everyone. Please contact your sales cooperative here at Tum Yeto to join us on this crusade for skateboarding superiority!
Keep On Rolling.
 
 
Tod Swank
Founder and CEO
Tum Yeto, Inc
[close]

Personally, I appreciate that it's an inticement rather than a strong arm tactic, but I'm not cool with the targeting of shop decks. I can't speak to any other scenes but mine, but around here, shop decks aren't usually sold because they're cheaper, they're sold because the locals here choose to represent the shop (when they aren't riding a pro/logo deck).

Anyway, nothing Earth-shattering, but it's an update all the same.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Stand and Deliver on March 07, 2007, 10:58:29 AM
I was in my local shop (510) last night picking up some stuff and when I asked if they got their copies of the new Foundation video the kid behind the counter told me that they went ahead and stocked up on Tumyeto product hoping that kids would get stoked on the video translating into kids buying Foundation / Toy stuff.  Unfortunately, the videos never came in with the hard goods order.  So, now they're in a cart before the horse situation.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: P-Sk8 on March 07, 2007, 11:52:45 AM
In europe the core shops are dying.

Skate shoe sales are tanking, The US skate brands are all sold in chain shops.

The street fashion trend is taking over. So the crossover effect (non skaters buying skate shoes is kinda over).

There are like 60 skate shoe companies, yet it seems that Nike is the ruler.

Here the mail order companies are core, they support the sport, arraange summer camps, events, its a good scene.

Skating is underground yet more popular than ever. All the local rippers have their own companies.

Nobody is making any money, yet nobody fucking cares..

It is doubtful that the USA brands will ever win back the market. nobody cares.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 07, 2007, 12:44:17 PM
talking about nike here is quite off topic, but they way you guys dish skate shoes is sad. nuff said.

How is that off topic?

Btw, I think I was like 16 when I wore my last pair of pumas. If yall hold that against us you're retarded.
We were kids that didn't know better.

My point in this entirely is that we need to keep the outsiders out. If you've been listening it's shops bitching about mall stores, which are outsiders. It's companies out of nowhere selling blanks, undercutting respectable skate companies. Again, outsiders invading.  The two need eachother and if there is not some type of order or brotherhood than people will continue to try to make that fast buck. If there is some type of group, maybe even the iasc (yes I said that) that will work in unison under strict guidelines than certain individuals will be held accountable for their actions. And when I say iasc I'm also thinking reps from major distributions and shops. As long as both sides are equally represented than it could potentially be fair.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on March 07, 2007, 12:53:58 PM
by offtopic i meant that this is about boards not shoes... skateboarding shoes companies are not going to get into the kind of "trouble" that deck brands got themselves into, because they keep on inovating (the next shoe can't be exactly the same as the previous)...

as for nike...i would never wear them, but there is so much good feedback for them it's ridicilous... to each his own i guess, but at least think of the efforts of sole tech's lab comparing to a relative small effort by nike that worked...
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 07, 2007, 01:03:57 PM
Nike isn't needed though. I will agree to the fact that what the pros wear have a direct effect on what kids buy, and should be addressed. Shu, I give out tees and if I spot a mofo wearing some other street wear type shirt, he's cut. No if, ands, but about it. I brought up shoes and clothes because it's all heading in that direction, and yeah I agree that shoe companies will and should be ok. The clothes thing directly effects me. These street brands get into distributions that I SHOULD BE IN and are in all or most shops. It's a full on spit in my face that I have to compete with this shit and can't be in certain stores cause of this. I fucking paid major dues. Those companies pay for fake thugs to pose in their shit. Straight bullshit!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on March 07, 2007, 01:28:46 PM
i agree with that, but the clothing market is the toughest one to survive in for sure... keep on keeping on!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Sleazy on March 07, 2007, 02:03:52 PM
In europe the core shops are dying.

Skate shoe sales are tanking, The US skate brands are all sold in chain shops.

The street fashion trend is taking over. So the crossover effect (non skaters buying skate shoes is kinda over).

There are like 60 skate shoe companies, yet it seems that Nike is the ruler.

Here the mail order companies are core, they support the sport, arraange summer camps, events, its a good scene.

Skating is underground yet more popular than ever. All the local rippers have their own companies.

Nobody is making any money, yet nobody fucking cares..

It is doubtful that the USA brands will ever win back the market. nobody cares.

heard it before but you left out he part about no haters
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 07, 2007, 02:10:24 PM
especially haters with no demerit.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MrCokesNSmokes on March 08, 2007, 12:35:52 AM
Expand Quote
talking about nike here is quite off topic, but they way you guys dish skate shoes is sad. nuff said.
[close]

How is that off topic?

Btw, I think I was like 16 when I wore my last pair of pumas. If yall hold that against us you're retarded.
We were kids that didn't know better.

My point in this entirely is that we need to keep the outsiders out. If you've been listening it's shops bitching about mall stores, which are outsiders. It's companies out of nowhere selling blanks, undercutting respectable skate companies. Again, outsiders invading.  The two need eachother and if there is not some type of order or brotherhood than people will continue to try to make that fast buck. If there is some type of group, maybe even the iasc (yes I said that) that will work in unison under strict guidelines than certain individuals will be held accountable for their actions. And when I say iasc I'm also thinking reps from major distributions and shops. As long as both sides are equally represented than it could potentially be fair.

I tend to agree with this- and, that does seem to be the concensus. That, the "outside" investors (Kohls, Target, Dick's Sporting Goods.... maybe Nike.... etc, etc) need to be shown the door. We need to get back, at some point, to skaters supporting skaters.

However, I have a question. Insofar as IASC is concerned.... are these guys even skaters, anymore? Swank, Boyle, etc? I haven't seen anything in years that would indicate that they skate. Not that they don't; I just don't know.

The point is: If they don't, should/could we consider IASC another form of "outsider"? Or, does a guy that "used to skate, but is too busy running a business to stay involved in the sport" count as a "skater"?

Ideally, we'd be buying skateboards, made by skaters, from shops and distributors that are run by skaters.

I don't know about you guys, but that would be a pretty comfortable situation for me to get on board with. I'd support a fellow skater over a non-skater, any day.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: monster network on March 08, 2007, 12:44:24 AM
its a grey area, some pople can't skate simply because they were injured. i mean, if someone puts in 20 years but can't skate now for whatever reason i'd still put them down as a skater. its a mindset and that will be ingrained if you've skated for some time. but then again, if you were a skater for all that time even if you are fucked up you would think you would still want a roll about now and then. if cardiel can roll around, there isn't really any excuse for anyone else. i don't know. either way, what is of immediate concern is the the removal of people who have never skated a day in their lives.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on March 08, 2007, 12:48:44 AM
its a grey area, some pople can't skate simply because they were injured. i mean, if someone puts in 20 years but can't skate now for whatever reason i'd still put them down as a skater. its a mindset and that will be ingrained if you've skated for some time. but then again, if you were a skater for all that time even if you are fucked up you would think you would still want a roll about now and then. if cardiel can roll around, there isn't really any excuse for anyone else. i don't know. either way, what is of immediate concern is the the removal of people who have never skated a day in their lives.

it sucks that some companys that send me boards treat me like some charity case, its hard for me to grasp when im in my prime but cant break back in, ohwell, i still feel very lucky to be doing this at 30 and having plenty of great times doing it.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 08, 2007, 12:52:56 AM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
talking about nike here is quite off topic, but they way you guys dish skate shoes is sad. nuff said.
[close]

How is that off topic?

Btw, I think I was like 16 when I wore my last pair of pumas. If yall hold that against us you're retarded.
We were kids that didn't know better.

My point in this entirely is that we need to keep the outsiders out. If you've been listening it's shops bitching about mall stores, which are outsiders. It's companies out of nowhere selling blanks, undercutting respectable skate companies. Again, outsiders invading.  The two need eachother and if there is not some type of order or brotherhood than people will continue to try to make that fast buck. If there is some type of group, maybe even the iasc (yes I said that) that will work in unison under strict guidelines than certain individuals will be held accountable for their actions. And when I say iasc I'm also thinking reps from major distributions and shops. As long as both sides are equally represented than it could potentially be fair.
[close]

I tend to agree with this- and, that does seem to be the concensus. That, the "outside" investors (Kohls, Target, Dick's Sporting Goods.... maybe Nike.... etc, etc) need to be shown the door. We need to get back, at some point, to skaters supporting skaters.

However, I have a question. Insofar as IASC is concerned.... are these guys even skaters, anymore? Swank, Boyle, etc? I haven't seen anything in years that would indicate that they skate. Not that they don't; I just don't know.

The point is: If they don't, should/could we consider IASC another form of "outsider"? Or, does a guy that "used to skate, but is too busy running a business to stay involved in the sport" count as a "skater"?

Ideally, we'd be buying skateboards, made by skaters, from shops and distributors that are run by skaters.

I don't know about you guys, but that would be a pretty comfortable situation for me to get on board with. I'd support a fellow skater over a non-skater, any day.

I have given my time and sacrificed a whole lot to pursue a dream. If you don't believe that than think about a 31 year old man going to school for auto body. Need I say more? So no, I can't say these guys don't deserve to be where they are at.

Mainly what I mean by outsiders is the people who frowned upon skating for years but have barged in during the boom like it's the gold rush or something. Mostly corpo giants that are owned by investors and shit like that.
Malls, dicks, copelands, etc. When all the facts are out on the table it's pretty embarassing on both sides.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: monster network on March 08, 2007, 12:56:14 AM
eh? i was talking about company and shop owners. i'm confused
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 08, 2007, 12:56:27 AM
Expand Quote
its a grey area, some pople can't skate simply because they were injured. i mean, if someone puts in 20 years but can't skate now for whatever reason i'd still put them down as a skater. its a mindset and that will be ingrained if you've skated for some time. but then again, if you were a skater for all that time even if you are fucked up you would think you would still want a roll about now and then. if cardiel can roll around, there isn't really any excuse for anyone else. i don't know. either way, what is of immediate concern is the the removal of people who have never skated a day in their lives.
[close]

it sucks that some companys that send me boards treat me like some charity case, its hard for me to grasp when im in my prime but cant break back in, ohwell, i still feel very lucky to be doing this at 30 and having plenty of great times doing it.

yeah, when I send you that box give me a reciept. Charity is a write off you know-lol
j/k

 You stomp some heads tonight in skate?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on March 08, 2007, 01:08:12 AM
eh? i was talking about company and shop owners. i'm confused

sorry monster i didnt mean to qoute youre post, i was just ranting?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: plastic bench nerd on March 08, 2007, 01:11:06 AM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
its a grey area, some pople can't skate simply because they were injured. i mean, if someone puts in 20 years but can't skate now for whatever reason i'd still put them down as a skater. its a mindset and that will be ingrained if you've skated for some time. but then again, if you were a skater for all that time even if you are fucked up you would think you would still want a roll about now and then. if cardiel can roll around, there isn't really any excuse for anyone else. i don't know. either way, what is of immediate concern is the the removal of people who have never skated a day in their lives.
[close]

it sucks that some companys that send me boards treat me like some charity case, its hard for me to grasp when im in my prime but cant break back in, ohwell, i still feel very lucky to be doing this at 30 and having plenty of great times doing it.
[close]

yeah, when I send you that box give me a reciept. Charity is a write off you know-lol
j/k

 You stomp some heads tonight in skate?


i didnt enter but i had a good time skating the park, then my board popped up and hit me in the face, then i skated some more and had a dam good time again, haha!

the comp was pretty rad! i got there a little to late to enter but it was all good!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on March 16, 2007, 01:51:54 PM
next step from TWS Biz:
http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz/features/article/0,21214,1599891,00.html
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: buggle on March 16, 2007, 01:56:47 PM
www.aworldwithoutskateshops.com

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 16, 2007, 02:21:00 PM
Damn, they really have been listening to our suggestions.

First it was make the customer feel guilty and now it's customer first. They're catching on!!!!

As unorganized as Magik may be, EVEN I KNEW THAT!!!!!!!

Bravo!


I said it once and I'll say it again... flex additives in glue, thinner layers on top to reduce huge chips, and a thicker ply maybe bamboo in the middle. Experimenting with different ways to have better adhesion will make such a huge difference. Wood itself is a good substrate to adhere to but it could be better. Maybe a glue that etches the wood and bites into it. This doesn't require a fancy engineer, it's common sense. We all know we need flex with long lasting snap and form. A good engineer could do this in a matter of weeks. I've worked as an assistant to one for a defense company.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 02:22:19 PM
All Of this Is pretty stupid.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: biggums mcgee on March 16, 2007, 02:24:39 PM
whoaa

guess who's back

back again
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 02:26:15 PM
I Was actually mungogerry before. But Im snowed In today so I figured Ide surprise A few people.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: biggums mcgee on March 16, 2007, 02:28:17 PM
so reed, what do you know about encore?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 02:31:11 PM
It's Just a local company. There's nothing special about It. Some of the designs are Alright but I have feeling It will go under soon.
The Team Is Monte Mercado, Scott Vancil, Jeremy Jordan, Dustin Younie.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 16, 2007, 02:32:49 PM
You got my support!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 02:42:47 PM
so reed, what do you know about encore?
Did I meet You at a demo awhile ago? Short Redhaired type guy?.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 16, 2007, 02:44:46 PM
Not sure. Short with brown hair.

Baby face fine ass motherfucker would best describe me-kidding!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 02:46:52 PM
I was Talking to biggums Man. I Know what you look like.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 16, 2007, 02:47:30 PM
doh! My bad.

Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: biggums mcgee on March 16, 2007, 03:00:35 PM
Expand Quote
so reed, what do you know about encore?
[close]
Did I meet You at a demo awhile ago? Short Redhaired type guy?.

yeah was it that satori demo that came in 2005? that was a pretty funny deal, seeing someone from the internet then seeing that horrible demo. matt pailes doesn't deserve a board based on his street skills..I remember seeing that guy trying kickflip back 50's and backlips and not landing one the whole time. I did the fan-out thing to him for a joke, I was telling him how his footage in 'on the road' inspired me to do what I'm doing, he found that pretty funny
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 03:04:26 PM
Yeah, He's pretty garbage. We never get good demos anymore.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: biggums mcgee on March 16, 2007, 03:04:58 PM
It's Just a local company. There's nothing special about It. Some of the designs are Alright but I have feeling It will go under soon.
The Team Is Monte Mercado, Scott Vancil, Jeremy Jordan, Dustin Younie.

have you seen any boards floating around? and you said something about being in the burg, you know anything about skyline?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 03:09:20 PM
Expand Quote
It's Just a local company. There's nothing special about It. Some of the designs are Alright but I have feeling It will go under soon.
The Team Is Monte Mercado, Scott Vancil, Jeremy Jordan, Dustin Younie.
[close]

have you seen any boards floating around? and you said something about being in the burg, you know anything about skyline?
Haha That was a joke. I was Just trying to hide my Identity.
Ive Never seen any Of the boards anywhere. It's really Kindof a lame company. Support the Shelter, Not that stuff.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: biggums mcgee on March 16, 2007, 03:13:50 PM
does that dick who owns tsx own encore as well? funny that he keeps opening stores but isn't doing anything with that. those guys are so sick, especially scott and its not really cool to give them an oppurtunity and fuck around with it
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 03:17:21 PM
It's owned By this guy named Joe, He's In some Newpaltz Hip-Hop group or something And skates On the side. I guess Scott Is sick, But none of them Are really gonna go anywhere besides Jeremy.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on March 16, 2007, 03:20:34 PM
Check it out:
http://www.aworldwithoutpros.com/

No really, check it...


Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on March 16, 2007, 03:22:05 PM
did they shut it down?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: grimcity on March 16, 2007, 03:23:11 PM
Pretty much, man... they seem to feel that the site has served its purpose. hehe
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jrock on March 16, 2007, 03:24:26 PM
good work man...david slayed goliath, and i get to keep my shop boards (well for now, at least...)

now when are we gonna start seeing those generic shoes I've been hearing so much about?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: mikefork on March 16, 2007, 03:26:05 PM
good work man...david slayed goliath, and i get to keep my shop boards (well for now, at least...)

now when are we gonna start seeing those generic shoes I've been hearing so much about?
what elements?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: biggums mcgee on March 16, 2007, 03:33:47 PM
It's owned By this guy named Joe, He's In some Newpaltz Hip-Hop group or something And skates On the side. I guess Scott Is sick, But none of them Are really gonna go anywhere besides Jeremy.

I've never seen jeremy skate but he has the connections..scott was seriously killing it last time I was up there, as was monte but it seemed to me scott was really something
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: Reed on March 16, 2007, 03:38:53 PM
Jeremy Is an extremely talented dude, And you would probabely Expect that since He's Todd's brother. Scott and Monte are dude's Who are good at skating parks But nothing else, But Yeah when I first saw them I was Pretty psyched. Dustin Is alright But he's a little bit of A try hard, He changes His style every month In an effort To be like some of his favorite skaters Which Is lame.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: biggums mcgee on March 16, 2007, 04:00:04 PM
^maybe they would skate out more if there were actually spots in kingston. where do those dudes go to skate street? albany?
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clarkie on March 16, 2007, 07:09:01 PM
Check it out:
http://www.aworldwithoutpros.com/

No really, check it...




Hahaahah, i.e. the tribe has spoken! And he didn't even say thank you.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MrCokesNSmokes on March 16, 2007, 08:57:59 PM
Expand Quote
Check it out:
http://www.aworldwithoutpros.com/

No really, check it...



[close]

Hahaahah, i.e. the tribe has spoken! And he didn't even say thank you.

That's because he's taking the credit for "initiating a healthy dialogue regarding skateboarding's future". So, he's kinda thanking himself.

I wonder how fifty zillion kids saying "go screw yourselves" counts as "healthy dialogue". Maybe he's trippin' or sumthin.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: MAGIK INC GROUPIE on March 16, 2007, 09:15:45 PM
Expand Quote
Expand Quote
Check it out:
http://www.aworldwithoutpros.com/

No really, check it...



[close]

Hahaahah, i.e. the tribe has spoken! And he didn't even say thank you.
[close]

I wonder how fifty zillion kids saying "go screw yourselves" counts as "healthy dialogue". Maybe he's trippin' or sumthin.

hehehehe

"you can't handle the truth"
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: clarkie on March 16, 2007, 09:17:31 PM
Quote

That's because he's taking the credit for "initiating a healthy dialogue regarding skateboarding's future". So, he's kinda thanking himself.

I wonder how fifty zillion kids saying "go screw yourselves" counts as "healthy dialogue". Maybe he's trippin' or sumthin.
Quote

Ah of course! I shoulda thought of that, crazy me as I made up my own acronym for IASC (I Always Steal Credit) ages ago.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: OG on March 17, 2007, 07:30:01 AM
looks like somebodies scared,took down there little soap box website.
fuck blitz!
im glad all you slap heads see right through per's bullshit.
it's good to see shit catching up to those wankers!

they've continued to make money off me for years without paying up  so its good to see them squirm!



Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: jocko on May 22, 2007, 04:14:27 PM
I can't wait for skateboarding to die once again.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: BRSeth on June 11, 2007, 01:48:24 PM
i love the part where home boy from dwindle is like blah blah blah better margins, more technology etc, as if thats an excuse for making shitty china product.  that whole email convo is classic.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: P0PWAR on November 07, 2007, 07:50:13 PM
Money hungry shitheads, did they ever think to their greedy selves that maybe not all skateboarders can afford 50 dollar decks.. Im not going to not skate for an extra 3 months so I can save the extra 30 bucks for a "pro deck". Sure I like to support my favorite pros, but not all kids can afford this.
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: EricLogan on January 04, 2008, 04:01:11 AM
It's a rare, but always nice treat to see Consolidated sited in a good manor.

Also, I'd be stoked to see my name on the list of those who can't sue you.  :D
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: spungo on March 18, 2009, 09:35:29 PM
The title of this topic warrants a bump considering the AIG and Citibank and BoA stuff that's going on this week.  If it's unwarranted, then sorry!
Title: Re: A World Without CEOs
Post by: KoRnholio8 on March 19, 2009, 02:42:45 AM
AIG has some balls. That need to be crushed savagely. And then fed to their owners. Then as they puke it out, feed them that shit. And so on.