Religious nuts get angry at logic...

[GnArcIsSisTic]

It has committed so many crimes throughout history in the Name of God.  It has stolen money from the poor to feed its leadership for generations (look at the vatican and the megachurches in the U.S. and even Africa).  It puts down women.  It approves of slavery.  It represses human sexuality and uses guilt about sexual feelings to keep the masses under control. 

I am NOT offended by anyone else's beefs with 'the church' or 'religion'.

[branledore]

Religious Nut would be a good name for a porn video starring a priest.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

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It has committed so many crimes throughout history in the Name of God.  It has stolen money from the poor to feed its leadership for generations (look at the vatican and the megachurches in the U.S. and even Africa).  It puts down women.  It approves of slavery.  It represses human sexuality and uses guilt about sexual feelings to keep the masses under control. 

[close]

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I am NOT offended by anyone else's beefs with 'the church' or 'religion'.

[close]

How can you seperate 'religion' and 'chrisitianity?' Christianity is a religion. The Christian religion is the belief in Christian beliefs, Churches are centers for religious thought. So yeah, how is christianity not the same as religion? Its like you said I am fine with people saying "I hate people, I just get bummed when they say I hate men." Men are people, if you dislike people as a whole, there is no exception for men. Same deal, christianity is a religion, criticisms aimed towards religion also include criticisms aimed towards Christianity. If you hate all religion except for the one you practice, you are just some sort of bigot really.

[GnArcIsSisTic]

a 'church' should just be a gathering of Christians (followers of Jesus Christ's teachings, NOT followers of the church).

And something about how many people can say they're 'christian' but just because they're 'good people'.

[jeremyrandall]

Religious Nut would be a good name for a porn video starring a priest.

You just won this thread!!

[dutchmastakilla]

President Joe once had a dream
The world held his hand, gave their pledge
So he told them his scheme for a Saviour Machine

They called it the Prayer, its answer was law
Its logic stopped war, gave them food,
How they adored till it cried in its boredom,

'Please don't believe in me, please disagree with me
Life is too easy,a plague seems quite feasible now,
or maybe a war, or I may kill you all

Don't let me stay, don't let me stay.
My logic says burn so send me away
Your minds are too green, I despise all I've seen
You can't stake your lives on a Saviour Machine

I need you flying, and I'll show that dying
Is living beyond reason, sacred dimension of time
I perceive every sign, I can steal every mind

Don't let me stay, don't let me stay
My logic says burn so send me away
Your minds are too green, I despise all I've seen
You can't stake your lives on a Saviour Machine   

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

a 'church' should just be a gathering of Christians (followers of Jesus Christ's teachings, NOT followers of the church).

And something about how many people can say they're 'christian' but just because they're 'good people'.

^ That always annoys me, when Christian people think associate "good person" with "christian" so closely, almost to the point of making it seem like you can't be a good person if you aren't Christian.

[TapLuxiferfet]

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a 'church' should just be a gathering of Christians (followers of Jesus Christ's teachings, NOT followers of the church).

And something about how many people can say they're 'christian' but just because they're 'good people'.

[close]

^ That always annoys me, when Christian people think associate "good person" with "christian" so closely, almost to the point of making it seem like you can't be a good person if you aren't Christian.

ahh that is not true I'm friends with tons of people that aren't christian. I know people are going all crazy, but if you want to know my definition of a christian...is that God is Love, and God is Forgiveness

^Those are the actual definitions, the kooks you guys are talking about are kooks

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

definition of a christian is a person whose religious beliefs revolve around the idea that Jesus was the messiah, and follow the new testament of the bible. All of those other ways y'all like to aggrandize yourself are just your own arrogance.

[TapLuxiferfet]

Imma smoke a cigarette and be right back, watching point break too motherfucker

[GnArcIsSisTic]

^ plz dont associate me with the gay christian satanist

[TapLuxiferfet]

Ok, I'm 3rd generation born from Hawai'i, that means that I grew up with Hawaiian Mythology. I also grew up in a Christian family. I've always considered the idea, because I come from a smart family, that it is possible that we were put here by aliens. That could very be a possibility you can't prove that its not. So with that said, with everything going on the news right now, I don't know.

[jeremyrandall]

It's funny how christians are always embarrassed to be associated with other christians, yet they still want you to think that they aren't crazy.

[TapLuxiferfet]

It's funny how christians are always embarrassed to be associated with other christians, yet they still want you to think that they aren't crazy.

Well Jeremy thats what I'm saying, I've been considering the science shit for a while.

[Paper Crane]

[tysj!]

^^ well there ya go.

just wanted to say, the drawing at 0:54 in that video...YES.

And this.

And I remember this one time where some mormons knocked on my door when I was home alone. Turned out she was a really hot asian mormon and I hung on to every word hoping that my smile would possess her to go against everything she believed in and do me. Did not work.

[jeremyrandall]

UH OH!!  Did any of you christian boys "Lust after a women with your eyes?"  Better go cut them out of your head like Jesus said to.  Better than your soul burning in hell for eternity huh??

And yes...that is actually in the bible.  http://bible.cc/matthew/5-29.htm

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

Douay-Rheims Bible
And if thy right eye scandalize thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee. For it is expedient for thee that one of thy members should perish, rather than that thy whole body be cast into hell.

^^ well there ya go.

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just wanted to say, the drawing at 0:54 in that video...YES.

[close]

And this.

And I remember this one time where some mormons knocked on my door when I was home alone. Turned out she was a really hot asian mormon and I hung on to every word hoping that my smile would possess her to go against everything she believed in and do me. Did not work.

If somebody came to my door harassing me with their religious propaganda, and I still wanted to fuck her, I'd have no qualms telling her to suck my dick if it was so important to her. I mean, it probably wouldn't work, but nothing else would, and at least this way you'd be rid of the bitch right quick.

[Sleazy]

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Aren't moral sentiments the basis of our moral choices/actions?
The reason I don't kill or rape isn't because Hell is a deterrent, but empathy or foreseen guilt prevent me from doing so.
And these sentiments are probably best explained by the evolution (no need for (g)God(s).

So, if people didn't believe in God, wouldn't we still be just as moral, since our moral sentiments would still influence us?
Religion doesn't make us moral, but it can give motivations to be immoral. The moral status of the world would probably be imporved without religion (granting it is a source of immorality, but not the source of morality)

Isn't deism about understanding the divine through rationality? Reason may provide good access to understanding the physical world, but why think it's a good method for understanding the transcendent? And do you defer to the religious views of the logician?

[close]

Good post. Whenever religious people tell me that without religion, there would be no morality, I can't help but look at them strangely. It makes me think they have no sense of empathy or conscience, and that the only reason they aren't acting in horrible ways is because of the combination of a perceived threat or bribe. I am not religious, and I try to live a moral life for multiple reasons, none of which include fear of a red half goat-half man with a pitchfork.
I also really agree with your second point, people have a moral compass that allows them to naturally and rationally make decisions. I wouldn't kill a person because it would be awful to end a person's life, and to take away a loved one from somebody. I also wouldn't go outside of a soldiers funeral holding homophobic signs, because it would be disrespectful to the dead, the family of the dead, and to gay people, who in reality, are doing nothing to hurt anybody by being gay. Religion, however, has gotten people to do these things. People use it to justify all sorts of evil shit, and also use it as a reason to not even think about the issue. When prop 8 was in CA (gay marriage) anytime I would talk to a religious nut about it all I would get is "It's just part of my religion." I would ask "But how does gay people getting married affect you, aside from additional income the state would get?" The answer would always be "It's just my religion, and I can't go against it." This vote actually made me go from being annoyed by religion to thinking that it is actually a truly evil thing. I saw clear evidence of it as a repressive force.

but can you really imagine a senerio where religion evolved without there being a moral need?

i'm not arguing that religion is all good, but i definitely think that it makes a lot of people out there both better than they would be and worst than they would be otherwise. for every jihad nut job you have morally shallow people who follow a much better path through life than they would without religion.

religion causes a lot of problems and definitley deservse a lot of critism for a lot of horrible things, but on some levels i think it's also like a military or police force where eventhough they've commited so many horrible attrocities, they are a necessary evil to have order because as i asserted earlier, mans nature is one of evil. not that every man is evil but that there are enough that it becomes a societial problem if it's not addressed through things like police, laws and religion.

[rawbertson.]

id ask her to give me brain, and when she told me she a religious nut,i scalp the bitch and bust a nut on her brain!

[LloydChristmas]

my brother is on his way to becoming a franciscan friar, but when he skates he doesn't go around wearing t-shirts with crosses on them.  whatever you're into, fine, just don't shove it down my throat, please.

[Ronald Wilson Reagan]

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Aren't moral sentiments the basis of our moral choices/actions?
The reason I don't kill or rape isn't because Hell is a deterrent, but empathy or foreseen guilt prevent me from doing so.
And these sentiments are probably best explained by the evolution (no need for (g)God(s).

So, if people didn't believe in God, wouldn't we still be just as moral, since our moral sentiments would still influence us?
Religion doesn't make us moral, but it can give motivations to be immoral. The moral status of the world would probably be imporved without religion (granting it is a source of immorality, but not the source of morality)

Isn't deism about understanding the divine through rationality? Reason may provide good access to understanding the physical world, but why think it's a good method for understanding the transcendent? And do you defer to the religious views of the logician?

[close]

Good post. Whenever religious people tell me that without religion, there would be no morality, I can't help but look at them strangely. It makes me think they have no sense of empathy or conscience, and that the only reason they aren't acting in horrible ways is because of the combination of a perceived threat or bribe. I am not religious, and I try to live a moral life for multiple reasons, none of which include fear of a red half goat-half man with a pitchfork.
I also really agree with your second point, people have a moral compass that allows them to naturally and rationally make decisions. I wouldn't kill a person because it would be awful to end a person's life, and to take away a loved one from somebody. I also wouldn't go outside of a soldiers funeral holding homophobic signs, because it would be disrespectful to the dead, the family of the dead, and to gay people, who in reality, are doing nothing to hurt anybody by being gay. Religion, however, has gotten people to do these things. People use it to justify all sorts of evil shit, and also use it as a reason to not even think about the issue. When prop 8 was in CA (gay marriage) anytime I would talk to a religious nut about it all I would get is "It's just part of my religion." I would ask "But how does gay people getting married affect you, aside from additional income the state would get?" The answer would always be "It's just my religion, and I can't go against it." This vote actually made me go from being annoyed by religion to thinking that it is actually a truly evil thing. I saw clear evidence of it as a repressive force.

[close]

but can you really imagine a senerio where religion evolved without there being a moral need?

i'm not arguing that religion is all good, but i definitely think that it makes a lot of people out there both better than they would be and worst than they would be otherwise. for every jihad nut job you have morally shallow people who follow a much better path through life than they would without religion.

religion causes a lot of problems and definitley deservse a lot of critism for a lot of horrible things, but on some levels i think it's also like a military or police force where eventhough they've commited so many horrible attrocities, they are a necessary evil to have order because as i asserted earlier, mans nature is one of evil. not that every man is evil but that there are enough that it becomes a societial problem if it's not addressed through things like police, laws and religion.

Easily. I would say religion evolved out of a confusion about science, not morality. People who claimed to know about God and/or the creation of the universe inserted their own morality, claiming this creative force as the ultimate backing for the morality they had. There are clear historical records of this occurring. It was famously done during the medieval era and Renaissance period in Europe. The schism and the reformation are a direct result of things getting so absurd, and becoming so clearly just for power and money, that people broke off from the Catholic Church.  It still continues today, as evanglical Christians morph the teachings of Jesus to somehow support the more exploitative political party in America. Morality has nothing to do with its evolution, the morality of the bible was created more to control and subjugate others than to teach them how to live right.
Also, I would say that there is absolutely no correlation between living a moral life and being religious. Religious people at all levels do horrible things all the time, things that they may even preach about being wrong. Just because people have a moral guide doesn't mean they will do the right thing, at the same time, a lot of people who follow no written law of conduct live wonderful, moral, positive lives. Its not that there aren't bad atheists or good christians, I just don't think you can genuinely claim a link. I would say a shallow person is going to be shallow whether or not they have seen that their shallow actions will be considered evil by a God. I mean, if a man fucks another man's wife, he KNOWS he is fucking with that relationship. He KNOWS he could be causing heartbreak and anguish in that family's life, he knows he could end up getting beaten or killed by that man, but he still does it because he wants to fuck her, and doesn't take shit like that into consideration. I hardly see how having another issue like the bible will change such a shallow man's thought process.
And don't give me this "true christian" garbage either (not that you did.) Was Ted Haggard a true Christian? I'd say he was, he believed and studied the bible on a regular basis. Did it make him avoid a life of "sin"? No, he was snorting meth off the cock of a male hooker at the same time he was preaching and studying all the reasons it is evil to be gay. And he DEFINITELY is not the first one to be super religious and get caught up in that shit. Remember Jim and Tammy Faye Baker? These are leaders of these communities we are talking about, one by one, consistently proving themselves not to be holier-than-anybody. Its not just random people.

[popeyesfriedchicken]

what gets me about religion, especially christianity...  is that what if one of them really is right?  a lot of people would be fucked.  i am kind of in a bind when it comes to what i believe.  i went to a christian school from kindergarten to fifth grade so a lot of that "fear" tactic got stuck in me.  but in terms of morality...  i don't do fucked up shit because i'm afraid god will punish me, i just don't have the desire.  there's no way to prove or disprove it.  i just think that if christianity is correct, and god really does care about us so much, wouldn't he give us more proof than an old book that is more than likely not even close to what it originally was when written?  instead of asking everyone in the world to just blindly believe a massive collective of stories that are as wild as any animated disney movie on acid?  i truly want to believe that there is more to life than what we experience on earth.  i hope there is some utopia out there when we die...  but it doesn't seem too likely.  depending on how lucky you are earth itself can be a utopia, but not for the majority. 

[Tarquin]

Whatever you're into, fine, just don't shove it down my throat, please.

[General Cornrow Wallace]

ahaha Religion sucks that video was great

[EXTRA SPICY]

id ask her to give me brain, and when she told me she a religious nut,i scalp the bitch and bust a nut on her brain!

i'm proud of you rawb, instead of demanding the use of the female body you're asking now. 

[Beer Keg Peg Leg]

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Aren't moral sentiments the basis of our moral choices/actions?
The reason I don't kill or rape isn't because Hell is a deterrent, but empathy or foreseen guilt prevent me from doing so.
And these sentiments are probably best explained by the evolution (no need for (g)God(s).

So, if people didn't believe in God, wouldn't we still be just as moral, since our moral sentiments would still influence us?
Religion doesn't make us moral, but it can give motivations to be immoral. The moral status of the world would probably be imporved without religion (granting it is a source of immorality, but not the source of morality)

Isn't deism about understanding the divine through rationality? Reason may provide good access to understanding the physical world, but why think it's a good method for understanding the transcendent? And do you defer to the religious views of the logician?

[close]

Good post. Whenever religious people tell me that without religion, there would be no morality, I can't help but look at them strangely. It makes me think they have no sense of empathy or conscience, and that the only reason they aren't acting in horrible ways is because of the combination of a perceived threat or bribe. I am not religious, and I try to live a moral life for multiple reasons, none of which include fear of a red half goat-half man with a pitchfork.
I also really agree with your second point, people have a moral compass that allows them to naturally and rationally make decisions. I wouldn't kill a person because it would be awful to end a person's life, and to take away a loved one from somebody. I also wouldn't go outside of a soldiers funeral holding homophobic signs, because it would be disrespectful to the dead, the family of the dead, and to gay people, who in reality, are doing nothing to hurt anybody by being gay. Religion, however, has gotten people to do these things. People use it to justify all sorts of evil shit, and also use it as a reason to not even think about the issue. When prop 8 was in CA (gay marriage) anytime I would talk to a religious nut about it all I would get is "It's just part of my religion." I would ask "But how does gay people getting married affect you, aside from additional income the state would get?" The answer would always be "It's just my religion, and I can't go against it." This vote actually made me go from being annoyed by religion to thinking that it is actually a truly evil thing. I saw clear evidence of it as a repressive force.

[close]

but can you really imagine a senerio where religion evolved without there being a moral need?

i'm not arguing that religion is all good, but i definitely think that it makes a lot of people out there both better than they would be and worst than they would be otherwise. for every jihad nut job you have morally shallow people who follow a much better path through life than they would without religion.

religion causes a lot of problems and definitley deservse a lot of critism for a lot of horrible things, but on some levels i think it's also like a military or police force where eventhough they've commited so many horrible attrocities, they are a necessary evil to have order because as i asserted earlier, mans nature is one of evil. not that every man is evil but that there are enough that it becomes a societial problem if it's not addressed through things like police, laws and religion.

[close]

Easily. I would say religion evolved out of a confusion about science, not morality. People who claimed to know about God and/or the creation of the universe inserted their own morality, claiming this creative force as the ultimate backing for the morality they had. There are clear historical records of this occurring. It was famously done during the medieval era and Renaissance period in Europe. The schism and the reformation are a direct result of things getting so absurd, and becoming so clearly just for power and money, that people broke off from the Catholic Church.  It still continues today, as evanglical Christians morph the teachings of Jesus to somehow support the more exploitative political party in America. Morality has nothing to do with its evolution, the morality of the bible was created more to control and subjugate others than to teach them how to live right.
Also, I would say that there is absolutely no correlation between living a moral life and being religious. Religious people at all levels do horrible things all the time, things that they may even preach about being wrong. Just because people have a moral guide doesn't mean they will do the right thing, at the same time, a lot of people who follow no written law of conduct live wonderful, moral, positive lives. Its not that there aren't bad atheists or good christians, I just don't think you can genuinely claim a link. I would say a shallow person is going to be shallow whether or not they have seen that their shallow actions will be considered evil by a God. I mean, if a man fucks another man's wife, he KNOWS he is fucking with that relationship. He KNOWS he could be causing heartbreak and anguish in that family's life, he knows he could end up getting beaten or killed by that man, but he still does it because he wants to fuck her, and doesn't take shit like that into consideration. I hardly see how having another issue like the bible will change such a shallow man's thought process.
And don't give me this "true christian" garbage either (not that you did.) Was Ted Haggard a true Christian? I'd say he was, he believed and studied the bible on a regular basis. Did it make him avoid a life of "sin"? No, he was snorting meth off the cock of a male hooker at the same time he was preaching and studying all the reasons it is evil to be gay. And he DEFINITELY is not the first one to be super religious and get caught up in that shit. Remember Jim and Tammy Faye Baker? These are leaders of these communities we are talking about, one by one, consistently proving themselves not to be holier-than-anybody. Its not just random people.

I agree. If you lack empathy and other qualities, you are going to make morally wrong decisions regardless.